Shaun Newman Podcast - SNP Archives #43 - Albert Jimmy

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Born in 1946, he grew up in Onion Lake. We discuss his younger years where he went to the residential schools, his wisdom from 50 years of marriage and his own families generational trauma.  Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Support here:⁠ https://www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast⁠

This is Jordan Tutu. This is Grant Fear. This is Glenn Healy. This is Mark Lettestu. Hi, this is Scott Oak. Hi, this is Braden Holby. This is Tim McAuliffe of Sportsnet. Hi, everybody.

This is Darren Greger. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday. Hope everybody is having a great week. The sun is shining. And we've got a good one on tap for you today. Before we get there, let's get on to today's episode sponsors.

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And if you're heading into any of these businesses, make sure you let them know you've heard about them on the podcast, right? Now let's get on to The Tale of the Tape. Born in 1946, he's a brother, father, husband, community pillar. I'm talking about Albert Jimmy. So buckle up, here we go. It is July 12th, 2021. I'm sitting across from Albert Jimmy. So first off, thank you, sir, for making the drive in to sit and do this.

Okay. Yeah. Now, what we try and do here is we just want to capture your story or a part of it. It's pretty tough to do in an hour or whatever we sit here for, but we're going to try our best. So I always ask, you know,

guess if they could go back to the beginning, one of your earliest memories and start there, and we'll just see where it goes from there. Apologies if I interrupt a few times because I love to kind of dig in on you if I find something that's of interest. Well, I guess I guess I'd say,

can start during my school days, you know, 1953. Before that, before I went to school, I used to live with my mom and dad on the reserve, and we didn't have that much, you know, in those days, you know, you have a team of horses and a wagon that's just like having a vehicle nowadays. So we were able to travel here and there, you know, took us a long time, not like today, you know, you get to certain places real fast with the vehicles. That time, we used to travel two days or three days, you know, to get to Lloyd and all that. And we used to, I remember, we used to go further north of where we live in the wilderness. My dad used to take us, you know, in a fall, picking berries and, you know, getting ready for the winter, you know, hunting, you know, making dry meat

for the winter. Just remember that before I went to school. So that was a good life. Today, you know, I like hunting because that's how I was raised and learned from my parents how to, you know, sustain ourselves. So I supplement wild meat, you know, with the... modern foods now they're producing, you know. So I like those, I like those better.

So that's how I remember before I went to school. Okay. So you mentioned this road trip, not road trip, this trip to Lloyd taking two or three days. Well, you just made that trip today, and that took you half an hour, right? Like it's a lot different. Yeah.

But I'm really curious, you know, when you're making the trip to Lloyd, just a lot of things. things come to mind, right? Like, how did you get across the river? Did you sleep alongside the road? Did, what were you coming to Lloyd for, right? Like, I don't know. Maybe you could lead us through one of the trips and just so I can kind of get a feel for it. Well, I don't really remember why we went, we came to Lloyd, but I remember they used to, you know, pick up people that, you know, come to Lloyd, you know from other places and all that to meet them and they come back to Anya Lake and some of the

things you know supplies you know they used to pick up you know things like you know flower and all those other things you know the staple foods and we used to cross the river by ferry there used to be old fairies there you know you drive with your team of horses into the ferry and hold the horses down, you know, so they don't jump off, but they're usually pretty good. So that's how we used to go across the Saskatchewan River. In some places, I didn't see it and we didn't do it. Some of the people used to cross the river with horses, with their wagons. before they, you know, enter the water, they used to tie down their box, you know, in the wagon. They usually be big boxes.

They used to tie them down because they're just sitting on top, you know, the wagon, eh? Yeah. And if you go in the water, they're actually, you know, wooden boxes. They'll float away on you. So that's what they used to do. And they used to choose where it's shallow, where they know, you know, all. that thing. So that's how some of them used to cross. Maybe that's after, before the ferry, I meant, you know. Yeah, yeah. After the ferry, that's the ferry now. So, but you have to really watch it

in some seasons early spring. The river is high and it goes down, eh? And then after that, late June or July, it goes up again. If there's a rainy season, the river will go up. So you've got to watch those things. So there's a lot of things you have to watch, I guess, with the weather, that type. Yeah. So the, the ferry these days is kind of a novelty, right? Like I get to drive across the Peyton ferry from time to time. Yeah. And it's, it's a novelty, right? Like it's, I assume the bridge being put in at one point in time, O'Tunion Lake. Yeah. And I wish I had the year. Maybe you know the year. Not that it matters. I assume that must have been quite the thing for the community to have a direct access without the, I don't know, the predicament of the river,

the seasons, the ferry, everything about it. Yeah. Yeah, Anya Lake before the ferry, you know, was classified as semi-isolated, you know, status in terms of the funding or getting the government from. So, but after the ferry, we're no longer deemed as semi-isolated, you know, a status, terms of the funding. were no longer deemed as semi-isolated because, you know, now you can get to Lloyd real fast. I was about in early 1980s that the Brits came in, 8 or 8.5 somewhere on there. Yeah.

Was that a big day? Oh, yeah, a big day, you know, it was quite a difference. I remember before the bridge, you know, the ferry was there. You can get to Lloyd, you know, within an hour or so. but in certain time in the spring and certain time in the fall, you couldn't use the ferry. So you have to go where the bridges are. And that would be the Red Deer Bridge and the Lee Park Bridge.

So you have to go around that way. So that takes a while to get to Lloyd. You know, if you go around Red Deer, it takes twice as long, maybe more than an hour. and then to go the other way, red deer, same thing. So that's, you know, a certain time twice each year, you know, we had to do that. So, yeah. What was being that semi-a-like, what was a kid like back in the day?

You mentioned you didn't have much. Yeah. But, you know, you're kind of, you're isolated. Like in the wintertime, was there, what did you guys get up to? What was the thing? that kept you busy back in the day when you're when you're a kid well when I was a kid before we went to school get me busy I just go around with my parents you know hunting trapping and gathering eh so he do that in in the summer you know for berries you gather

well you use team of horses to get around and we used to just you know camp out there you know in the wilderness and pick whatever we had the way, I remember my mother used to pick up some medicine. You know, in certain places medicine grow, they used to pick those up, you know, for the coming year and all that. Berries, same thing. And hunting, you know, dry meat, you know, to store dry meat and so forth. So that's how we travel, you know, the team of horses in the wagon.

And this way in Lloyd, yeah, people have to come to Lloyd, you know, they used to use the ferry after that, you know, when it comes, when it was there, you know. As I mentioned before that, it wasn't there, the ferry. And then the Brits came. So that was a little quicker, you know, which is just like, you know, going to overseas. and now the world opened up for us. I remember this was, I think after I started school, I went on 14 and all that. I never went to North Balthor or any other city.

Just to Lloyd Minster a few times, you know, to me that was a big thing. It's like going to Edmonton or, you know, Saskatoon or all that, a big major city. When I came to Lloyd, that's the feeling ahead, you know, a big place. So I don't know if I answered the question. How big was Onion Lake when you were growing up?

Like how many people lived there at that point in time? I went to school, high school in 19, 6 to 1. Yeah, 6 to 1. I moved out. I went to Labrette. That's Fort Capal area. And I came back, started working in 1973. At that time, there were only 1,200 people in 1973.

So before that, you know, when I was a kid, there's probably less people, maybe 200 or 300 people, you know, when I was born. There weren't many families, but they were all scattered, eh? Today, now there's kind of a little village right in central, Onya Lake, and there's another one at the south side. Now we're building another one at the north side, a kind of group houses. But before that, there were no such thing. There was way out, you know, people living.

Well, I'm pretty sure right now you guys have 1,200 right around that range of students at school. Oh, yeah. More than 1,500. More than 1,500. Yeah, students. Yeah. And we have Chief Taylor and Eagleview and Beoshen, Gwan, and our Kree immersion school. We have for schools, and there's another high school being built.

That's going to be operational this coming year, September, should five schools all together. Like, wow. Yeah. So this was a few years ago, 1,500. so it could be more probably 17 or 1,800 students. Students. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. From kindergarten to grade 12. Yeah. So I've seen quite a bit of growth. Anywhere from 1,200 people to now over 6,000. You know, when I started working with the band, I used to know most of the families, you know, by seeing them, I know its family.

If I see the kids, I know. which family they were coming. Nowadays, I don't. I have to ask young people, you know, what's your name and who's your parents and all that. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, way different now. Yeah. Well, I've had a lot of people, uh, in this room before you that have talked about Lloyd Minster's growth and how quickly it's expanded. Yeah. But I mean, you're talking the same thing with Onion Lake. Like, it's really exploded as well. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I just want to mention this before I forget it. I started work in 1973. There was no running water, no central, you know, sewage system or water, no central heating system. I mentioned houses were separate. They had their own well if they're lucky, you know, or else, you know, spring or

whatever they can it means and the sewage system, you know. So now, this year, as we're talking, we have a central, you know, water treatment plan and every house, just about maybe a few houses that don't have the water and natural gas is all piped in. So it has grown quite a bit, you know, for the better, for the community. but we're still short of houses. Short houses. Yeah, sort of houses.

About, you know, 1,200 or something. We have about 1,200 houses, maybe plus, you know. I apologize for my ignorance in waiting into this, but one of the things that gets thrown at Trudeau these days is how reserves don't have supply of drinking water. Yeah. And you're basically just talking about, I guess I just take it for granted.

Living in Lloyd Minster, coming from the farm, I just take it for granted. So growing up in Onion Lake, that wasn't a standard thing to have. No, no. I came back 1973 and they still didn't have, you know, these kind of facilities or services. and so one of the things, you know, I worked with the leadership and all that. They come up with this program that where you can, if you're working, you can apply for a mortgage, say. So I did that and I got a house and I got a well and I piped it in, you know, so I got water, I got the sewage system and all that.

and I had the propane, you know, so I had these all, you know, which I didn't have when I was a kid. And but when I looked around, you know, when I had it, none of the other people had it. So I work with the leadership to try and get those services. And so we succeeded. You know, we got the CMHC housing program, started off in Onion Lake where people, you know, can have adequate housing and the federal government

provide housing in all these services for us, but they only provided certain amount of money, you know. I think at that time when I built my house, it was 10,000 allotted to me

and I couldn't build an adequate house for 10,000. So I borrowed, you know, a little more at that time I think it cost me about 22 or 25 you know in 73. Yeah, I thought that was a lot of a huge mortgage. But for 10,000 they just built shells, you know, a shell for you with no services and all that.

That's what we were getting and that, you know, the community were getting. So it wasn't adequate housing, no services, no running water, nothing that's it and sure they make big announcements the government oh this is how much money we gave them but they don't tell you you know how much they didn't give them you know they're still short they and they're still suffering at that time but uh was that you just come from a different world is the way i look at it right i just if we don't if i don't look into it how do i know right yeah I assume that had to have been extremely frustrating. Yeah.

Yeah. What's this again? Well, I just assume the government saying one thing, but actually you folks seeing it firsthand and going, like, what are they talking about here? They're playing politics and they're not actually coming through with everything. Yeah. Yeah.

No, well, you know what? this is sad to say and, you know, the more I thought of it, I grew up and started, you know, learning what's happening to us. When I went to school, when I went out, well, when I went out, I was kept in the residential school. And then they started studying the residential school, so I got caught there. So I was sent another place, I was actually sent to a convent, bigger Saskatchewan. you know, the last couple years, I think, when I went to school in high school. But, you know, I came home one time, and so I had to get home, so we didn't have a vehicle, power vehicle. My parents, you know, didn't have the vehicle.

So I had to hit hike home to where I was going to school. My mom used to live in North Battlefield at that time. He moved from Anya Lake to North Battleford. So I had to try and get home to bigger. So I hit steak. So there's a person, a white guy picked me up, start asking me a lot of things like he didn't know, you know, where I come from.

So I told him where I come from. And so I started asking me, you know, all these other things. So I told him, you know, we used, my mom and dad used to get a lounge or, you know, you know, here they used to get, they started welfare, I guess, you know, system at that time. But before that, they didn't have that. They just had rations from the Indian agent. You know, you get a slab of bacon, a bag of beans, flour, and tea, and lard.

That was your rations. So to me, as I go young, people used to talk about the treaty. the government has to take care of us because we gave them all the land. So when this white guy picked me up and, you know, I want to wait the bigger, he started asking me. And that's what he asked me, how do you guys live? So I told him that. Because our treaty, the government has to take care of us.

And that's, you know, that elders instilled that in me when I was young. So that was my answer. but I never look into it further because I was going to school and trying to get my grades and all that. I was into this provincial system education system, so I left all the other, you know, things that the elders used to talk about, you know. So really now, after a few years, working with my nation and all that, I became to know exactly what our forefathers really sign, you know. know when they gave up the land. It's really because they have to be service and taken care of, but that didn't happen. And the government of that day, in 1876 or 1800s when they start signing treaties, the government of the day, the bureaucrats of the day knew they could not get

out of that treaty. They made a bad deal on their part. The only way they can get out of that treaty, they get out of it is to wipe us out. And they started that after the treaty. They put us in residential schools. Now you hear the news, how that happened. You know, some of us survived, but some of us didn't. That was one, you know, I guess, way they were trying to get rid of us. But before that, They used to give out, you know, I mentioned blankets, I mean rations. They used to give blankets out trying to help out people, but they used to give them infected blankets with tuberculosis, TB. And quite a few of our nations die from that, you know, issue.

So they were trying to wipe us out by all means, because they knew they made a bad deal. And the treaty is signed as long the sun signs, the grass grow and the waters flow. So really it's forever. So they knew they couldn't. So the only way to get out of it is to destroy us. And they tried that.

and there's a big talk about truth and reconciliation and that's the truth. They made a bad deal. And that's the truth. They try to destroy us. And the other truth is they failed and now it's coming out. And the truth is the treaty is still alive and well

and has to be honored. Truth and reconciliation. reconciliation. Truth. Both parties have to acknowledge what that is and agree and agree all the confirm and affirm to each other, all the truth. After that, reconciliation comes and how we deal with them. We need to, you know, collaborate and try and come up with the reconciliation. Entreaty was done forever and they have to acknowledge that and they have to you know abide of what they promise you know to the first nations because if they don't you know you see other countries especially in Middle East they're fighting for land

over there because you know I don't really know a little bit of history but it It boils down to land. And if that doesn't settle here, I think, you know, down the years, it's still going to be a turmoil. You know, people will be fighting and all that. I hope it's not a war like I see it overseas. But, you know, arguments and all that, you know, First Nations will be, you know, fighting for, you know, what's supposed to be. theirs and what they were promised. So, yeah.

I get emotional sometimes, so I get lost my thoughts sometimes. No, I, listen, I use the word ignorant because I don't, I haven't read enough about it. And I always think, you know, I grew up in Hillman, which, as we both know, is a stone throw from Onion Lake. Yeah. And, you know, well, this was well before the current stuff came out about residential. schools, but if I go back, a few years, my wife taught at Little Pine,

and so she taught there for three years, and, you know, you start having some conversations, and then you start digging into it, and then you find out on you, like, at a residential school. And I'm like, really? Like, that's, like, in my back, you know, that isn't, on, it's easy when it's Ontario or BC or somewhere in southern Saskatchew, ah, that's far away,

but, like, I mean, that's awfully close, you know? Yeah. And so it's been a, well, I think it's been an interesting journey for a lot of people to hear the stories and to understand like what as a society maybe we're capable of. You know, you should rightfully so be emotional, in my opinion. I was curious, you know, I don't know how much detail you're willing to share, maybe you're willing to share a lot. I don't know, but the residential school thing has become, I mean, a very media, they've grabbed a hold of it, and it is now being, I don't know, explained a lot. You going through Onion Lake, could you kind of give us a picture or, I don't know,

what residential school was like in Onion Lake? Yeah. I started when I was eight years old in residential school. I didn't know what was happening. You know, when I was told my mom and dad, I had to go to school. I didn't even know word of English when I went to school. They teach me, they talked to me in Korea and all that. That's all I knew.

So it would be thrown in school, you know, you know, people I just talk to, I speak Korean, and didn't understand me. And then they started, you know, scolding or strapping the children or, you know, the students that speak cre, they're not supposed to speak creed when you're in a residential school. You know, you get punished for that. So I was really scared at the start and all that. I had an older brother that used to take care of me, you know. He was a few years older.

me, you know, about three years. So at least I had a big brother taking care of me. But that was, you know, a scary thing. You know, every day, you know, you might want to talk to my brother and all that. If somebody catches me, talking Cree, you know, I get punished. And I've seen a lot of others get punished, you know. They used to get strapping, you know, and all that thing. things. That's one thing. And, you know, a typical day you get about 7 o'clock, you have to say your prayers as a group beside your bed, and then you go to Mass, mass, you know, in a church. That's how you start off your day. And then you go to breakfast, and you go

March every time you're going to go somewhere you file just like in the army or prison camp

you file and then you go one row at a time and follow each other and after the meal you know

everything's put away and all that you wait till your toll you know and then you go single file again

you know table by row by row you know every day like that and oh we had fun we had some games like outside when we play but you know when the the bell rang you have to get in all that getting right away if you're late you're punished again so all this you know and then this I remember, you know, I was Ginnettgart, so I was 8's 8, almost one of the older, there was younger, you know, in my grade, maybe six or seven years old, almost one of the big kids, I guess, grade 8, or 8's 8 in Ginter Garden, eh, that's kind of an old person, you know, person to be that great. But anyway, one day this big barn burned down.

you know and all these little kids the kindergarten were hauled out and we were made to stand in a single file you know rose in front of this burning barn and we were told to pray and we were told to raise our hands like this you know and pray and we kept praying and praying and some of us were getting tired and as soon as you were dropping your arm, you know, a priest or supervisor tell you, bring them up, you know, hit you up, get praying and praying. We were praying for that church to burn down, but it was in flames, you know. That was just pure abuse they did to us. They knew the burn, the barn will burn, but they made us pray for it not to burn. I keep remembering that when I was small. And so that's just one of incidents, how they treat us, you know.

Were you, did you have to live there, or were you going home every night? Well, first three or three or four years I had to live in there. You had to live in there? Yeah, residents. So when you were the youngest, you had to live in there? Yeah. And then they started this program, day scholars, say, because we were close residents who lived from Moni Lake. We could be bust in.

Well, at that time, we were in a team of horses, you know, every day back and forth. So that started when I was in grade four. So which is good still, but still I had to go to that same environment every day, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. I guess, you know, I've heard, I've heard different people, you know, getting to do this, I say this all the time, the listeners probably are irritated by me saying it all the time. But I get to interview people in their 70s, in their 80s, as late as their 90s,

and the different people view different forms of punishment differently. I find it very interesting, not that anyone wants to strap. And some people wear that as a sign of pride. Yeah, yeah, you used to get the strap. I mean, I was being a naughty boy, not a big deal. But like, when I listen to you talk about it, it's not really for breaking, it's for breaking their rules, which are very, I don't know, they seem strange to me.

You mentioned the praying for the barn or the church that's burning down or speaking in your native tongue. Like, that, it's just strange to me. And I don't know, maybe is that still going, I assume that there's nowhere that's going on today. No. But that's some of the stories I assume that the younger generation need to hear. Yeah. Need to hear where they've come from and some of the hardships we've put people through.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when I talk to my family or the young people and my grandchildren and all that, sometimes they don't believe me what I talk about. You know, I told him like, you know, nowadays you have, we have the natural gas pipe and and all that. We don't have to worry about, you know, getting coal, you know, as long as the plan keeps going, you know, well, sometimes it stops, but, you know, we have other means to do that. But we used to haul wood, you know, haul wood, eh?

And in the wintertime, you know, you know, 20 below or 25 below or 30 below, you had to get wood. in the team of horses and the sleigh. If you don't, you'll freeze. So we used to do that. And I used to tell them, you know, just to, after we load up the sleigh and going home, eh, and sitting on top the pile of wood, eh, you get coal. So I used to jump off and run behind the sleigh just to keep warm, eh.

When I tell them, they don't believe. me sometimes. Well, it's hard. I mean, we're kids today don't understand that there was once upon a time with no cell phones and no internet. And that isn't that long ago.

Like, geez, I remember that time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's interesting to watch as the generation, you know, I'm acting like I'm an old guy. I'm not an old guy. But to see kids try and like understand a dial-up phone, right? Yeah.

or even dial up internet for that matter, right? And try and get their head to wrap around. I'm the same way with everybody who came before me, right? You know, like the Gathering Wood. I've heard lots of stories about going to the river to cut blocks of ice so that you could have a cold room or a storage room for the summertime. So you could keep things. Sellers, yeah.

Yeah, sellers. Thank you for the word. Yes. And those stories are fascinating to me because, I mean, look at what we have today. in the modern world. We have deep freezes. You don't have to worry about anything. I mean, food.

Root sellers, they used to call it. Root sellers, that's right. Yeah. I'm curious, with all the things that, I don't know what the word is, maybe the hypocrisy of what the government, you saw what the government was saying and they weren't delivering on different things.

You've lived through things that most of us just haven't. During the entire process, pandemic, did you trust everything the government's been saying to you? Or have you been, or are you skeptical at most times? Well, I guess, you know, sometimes I'm really weary, you know, but I made sure, you know, to go and ask other people, you know, higher up and all that just to make sure during the pandemic. And, yeah, they've been. taken care of us, you know, lately, but in some cases, you know, again, if you put a proposal, that's exactly what you need and you know yourself what you need, they'll cut it down.

And at first, when we put a proposal at the start, we got most of the things we want. And then it kind of turned down a little. little bit, you know, towards the end. And then they keep telling me, well, I have so many proposals now. I have to, you know, go through them. And then they dish out, you know, some money, whatever they think we should have enough. So, you know, at the start, they were okay. But towards the end, you know, it kind of petered off. Yeah. So you have an interesting perspective on the government. I mean, from where I sit, I'm sure I got an interesting perspective too, but you certainly have an interesting one. I want to go back to your school days.

You were talking about starting in the residential school in Onion Lake. But then you brought up two different spots, LeBrette and bigger. Why do you go to LeBrette? Okay, I don't really know why, but... How old are you, first off, when you're going to LeBrette? LeBrette, though, is by 15. I think. Okay.

And it was high school or 16? So was LeBrette first or was bigger first? Labrette's first and then bigger. And then bigger. Okay. Yeah. So I started off grade 9 in La Breit. And that's the school, I guess.

You know, there's certain schools you can go to after you finish the elementary school in Anya Lake. And most of the other students that I know of went to LeBrette. So I just followed along. and that's what the government, I guess, you know, picked at school that we want to continue, you know, with our school that we go to. So that's the reason. And the reason that I went to bigger is because they closed that year, you know, in 1965, I think. That's the grade 11 I finished. And then I started in 1966 and, no, 65.

and bigger. And I finished 65 in the spring of 65 in LaBrette because they closed that school. Grade 12, no longer they're going to teach. So that's when they started, I think, closing, you know, some schools. Yeah. What do you remember about LaBrette? No, no. They were renovating it.

So we had to go in other school. Yeah. Yeah. What do you remember about LaBrette or bigger? You know, you talked about? bit about Onion Lake as a young kid and some of the things you saw there. What was moving away from home in a young age again to be a different type of isolated? Once again, I don't know if you're a phone at home every weekend, but I highly doubt you didn't have the FaceTime out to Albert

talking to your parents every night. No. No, it was more, you know, the only communication I had was, you know, by letter. We don't have Facebook at that time or computers or cell phones. It was by a letter to write to them. And we only came home Christmas and summer, you know, when you finish the 10 months. We used to be home early July or the end of June. And for Christmas, I think we're home for a week. So when we had to go back. And I mentioned the same, you know, routine. That's the same thing, you know, you go to church and all the things, you know. And but I was a little older now, you know, it's not as harsh, you know, punishments and all that.

I think, you know, people at that time weren't penalized for speaking Cree. But still, it gets scolded, you know, and all that, simply because, you know, people didn't understand you, but they didn't punish you that time. It was a little okay. But I experienced another abuse in the high school, and it was sexual abuse. And for a while, I kept it to myself. And after, as I went to school there, you know, the other students were picking up on me, you know, calling me names and all that. I guess they knew and some of them had the same experience from one of this teacher, shop teacher, that lure, you know, boys and, you know, he posed as sexual. educator, you know, he has to teach these, you know, these things one on one. That's how he,

he started off and, and, uh, I believed him and then when I found out, I was really ashamed and mad at myself for, uh, you know, uh, letting him do what he did to me. But, uh, yeah, and I really consider myself one of the lucky ones. To survive, I think, don't. Some of them didn't come home. They were younger. So that's my experience for high school, residential school. I really appreciate you, Sharon.

I hate to bring up, I don't know, old wounds. what can anyone say you trust people in positions of authority to do what is right and to have children's best interests at heart and there's one thing I found out on the podcast Albert is you're definitely not alone and it doesn't just happen in school

it happens all over the place I had a young guy come on here and talk about a billet dad of a hockey team who tried doing it and he got away and the amount of people that came up to, I'm sure him, but me afterwards and talked about their experiences with adults in positions that can influence and doing things to kids is honestly.

It really hurts my brain. I don't know. That had to have been, horrendous because I mean not only does it happen to you and then you realize but you're not even at home to talk to parents or yeah yeah yeah yeah and now I really understand my dad used to drink quite a bit and as the years went by you know I did the same thing what he did I drank quite a bit and trying to forget what happened is, you know, use alcohol to make me forget. And after I started getting married and having kids, then I started feeling or experiencing, you know, merits problems and all, you know, my wife was going to leave me.

One of my oldest, I guess, to him, is his sister. mom. Why is Dad always mad at us? He doesn't love us. It's always mad, you know. When I heard that, you know, I began to think what was wrong with me. So I went to seek help. Well, the only help I knew was they teach me all to pray. So I went to church again. Start going to church. And, uh, but that's one after my oldest set, why is our dad always mad at us? I don't think he loves us anymore. That's after I tried to stop on my own and I went to church and to be told this, you know, it really hit me home. It has to be something wrong. As the years went by, I lost track what was hurting me, that alcohol did the job. It made me forget of my issue. The only issue that was coming out

is the negative part of me. I was always mad. I told you I was mad at myself for letting this person. From day one, I was mad. You know, my dad treated me the same way I was treating. I was treating my kids at that time because he had the same experience. He probably took all his issues to his grave. He never dealt with them. He died, you know, not healing. So that's what happened. Now I understand why he treated me. He didn't know any better because he went to residential school and lost his parenting, losses, culture and all that. So we had nothing to pay. passed on to me except this negative, you know, feelings. So I picked those up and I picked up the abuse and all that,

all lumped together and I was mad at myself. I was mad at everybody. Even my kids, all the way I was treating them. So I finally knew what was happening to me. I started going to therapy, you know, one-on-one therapy. And I met this old lady first. nation's therapy and told me, you know, talk about it, get it out. It's doing your way. And I've done that, you know, and that's why, you know, I don't mind sharing because it helps me heal more.

So, you know, now you understand where all these young people are coming from, you know, they're into drugs and all that because all this culture and, all this, you know, the goodness that was passed on by the created to us is lost. We have to regain that. Nowadays, I go to cultural ceremonies, my spiritual, you know, where I belong. I don't go to church anymore, Catholic Church. I respect it because they're probably praying the same creator, but in a different way. But we were given certain ways to follow as First Nations. And we need to get back to those roots.

And that's how we'll be healing. And so that's where I am. You know, I'm starting to heal now. You know, I don't go to tourism most often. I don't hate them. But it wasn't them. It was the people from the past, the government that really initiated what happened to us.

the only ways to heal and keep working and then the other people will understand we're coming from and they'll probably assist us to heal more it's all I can say on that I really appreciate you sharing and opening up it's difficult to hear

because you know I want to lock across give you a hug now that things are open I certainly can but Yeah. That's the only, I don't know how to, that's tough. It's just tough. I don't have the words. One of the things that I find interesting is you mentioned, you know, everybody wonders

about the kids and the drugs. What you're explaining then is that this isn't a one-off. This is, you could see this across the entire culture, all this happening to all these different kids, and now they push it on to their kids. and their kids deal with it in a different way or the same way, alcohol and drugs. Yeah. Of trying to get away from those feelings and everything else. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I've seen a, you know, a program, you know, if you go back to nature and all that, it's kind of a relax and shooting. and there's a program now called land-based program. Land-based learning. Yeah, land-based learning.

And they teach you how you live with harmony, with nature and all that. At nature, you know, you take care of you, you know. And that's how we live before I went to school, my parents did that. but my dad didn't really go in depth to heal himself during most of the time after that you know so yeah but I think that's the only way out to keep promoting our culture you know the old ways how they used to deal with them

and mind you probably the old days they still had problems, but they don't have these high-priced therapists or doctors, you know, you have to pay so much and all that. They had it in their system, you know. They had one designated elder that does that, you know. It was part of his duty to do that, you know. So in a way we had this, I guess,

universal health system. within our culture also. And that's, yeah. Do you ever think you mentioned the solution is getting back to your culture, getting back to being one with the land, essentially, just basically finding out who you are. Yeah.

To me, that is not a quick fix. That's not something you just snap your, that's a lifetime of, that's a life or two lifetimes. Yeah. Do you think you can get it, do you think it can get back to there? Yeah, we have to start somewhere. And the treaty was signed.

Even before that, you know, the colonialism started. That's over 100 years ago. It's probably the treaty was signed over 140 years. So it took a while to really mushroom to this state. Yeah. It's going to take that long also to get better. But we have to start somewhere. You know, nowadays, I don't really not angry at myself.

And doing that, I'm hoping I passed a positive feeling to my children. I know some of my children still have problems with alcohol, drugs. But my grandchildren never seen me drink. So I want to pass that. that, you know, to them. So they'll remember the positive feelings that pass. So that's a start. When I leave this world, they'll probably remember that, that positive feeling I'm passing on. And then they'll pass that to their children. And then they're going to take quite a bit of generations that you said. But we have to start somewhat. That's the only way.

Yeah. That's a really pretty way of putting it, you know, passing along the positive. I always say on here, positivity spreads just as quickly as negativity. Yeah. Right? And you're taking with yourself and alcohol. Yeah. And, well, and honestly, some of the things you've faced have been, once again, I don't have the word that they should never be faced by any kid, right? And to deal with that and then to understand that my grandkids aren't seeing this is who I am and they get to see that and that's going to carry on. That's a very powerful thought. I hadn't, I hadn't, I hadn't, you know, when you say that, I have four siblings and all of us have dabbled and drinking and drug, sure, and smoking and whatever. But never any of us went down a deep rabbit hole of,

Where does this end? Yeah. At least to my knowledge. And I've always wondered that. I feel like the statistics probably say one of us should be addicted to something. I would assume that's what they say. And yet, growing up, mom and dad didn't drink or drank very little. Our grandparents didn't drink.

And actually, the more I think about it, I don't remember being put in situations where there was a ton of drinking going on. that feels almost like a light bulb moment for me here. I sit in this room an awful lot. That's a really interesting thought. I think you're on to something there on how to have a generation where they can start to walk away from some of the things that have been put in place or dealt with through your lifetime, your parents' lifetime, and now your kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, excuse me. Now, you had seven kids. Yeah. Did you always want a big family? Well, I didn't really plan a family. Well, I wanted kids, I guess, you know.

What was seven kids like? Well. What is seven kids like? Well, you know, when they started going to school, you know, first four were kind of in a group. and then, you know, wake up in the morning, you know, when they're getting a little older school age, you have to, you know, fed them and all that, you know, and you can go to work and all that, you know. And my wife didn't work at first. He just stayed home, so I really appreciate that. It took most of the, you know, hard work.

Yeah. And, but it was tough. And he talks about it sometimes. He says, I took all these seven kids, then some. Because we took in my brother's kids for a while, you know, because they were broken family and all that. So they live with us, my nephew. So besides the seven kids, when they're school dates,

that's when they came in. So he was, he was taking care of us, 15 or some. What? Yeah, my, you know, as a family. 15 of you. Yeah. Yeah. One time, but not all through the time, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just for a year or two, I think. But, you know, that's lots, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It was horrendous, you know, you have to keep going. And so, but I really appreciate. my wife took the bulk of the heart work.

You know, I had a day job. At least I did some part in the morning and evening, but he had to go through the day herself. Yeah. Yeah. No. How do you meet your wife? Actually, it was through a hockey tournament.

They had hockey tournaments. those days, North Battleford. You know, of course, I was young, you know, trying to meet girls and all that. That's all we met. That's all of us at a young age, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, trying to meet girls. That's right. And my mom was living in North Balford. So, and she's from North Balford area, mosquito. Okay. Mosquito reserve. So, yeah. Or a grisly man or lean man, big head, something like that.

Yeah. I think it's mosquito now that they call them so. Mosquito first name. Yeah. I got to ask, you obviously have seen the room. I'm a bit of a hockey nut. Oh, yeah. Did you grow up playing hockey then? Well, not as much in my younger days. I played hockey in high school and all that. And I left the sport. And my kids didn't play hockey simply because I wasn't a good parent and all that. You know, so I totally always drinking and all that.

Yeah. But after that, I sober up and, you know, I enjoyed the sport and I encouraged my grandchildren and one of them became the very first one I encouraged, became a good hockey player. And so I liked doing that, you know, promoting it is all. It's pretty cool to watch. Yeah, oh yeah, I enjoyed it, especially when he was younger. I started with the, they called those pee-wees or novice.

and all that. Yeah. And he was actually eight years old. He started. And he became pretty good right away, and I noticed that, and moved up and all that. And he played for the bandons here.

Okay. I think last year or two. Yeah, so. And played Junior Bionni Lake and Frog Lake. But as I say, you know, these drugs get the best of them, and he started getting involved in there and dropped, you know. I even took him to, to, let's call that, Victoria or BC or Victoria Island.

There's a hockey school there, and he did pretty good. That was in, he was moving to midgets that time. And I was hoping he would carry on, but he didn't. No, I enjoyed that sport. Yeah. You got married in 71. Sevent to one, yeah. 71.

So we were talking about this just before he started. That, in my brain, that means coming up on 50 years of marriage. Yeah. Man, like, what advice or what lessons have you learned from being in marriage for 50 years? You have to find out what the person really? wants and you have to sacrifice some of yours, you know. That's the only way. I just about lost my way when I stopped drinking.

You know, that year I mentioned my oldest started asking, why is the dad that you're so mean. He's not drinking anymore. And I just put the bottle away. I didn't take care of what was bothering me. I got you. Okay. I finally realized that and I started taking care of what was happening to me. Something was bothering me.

That's why I went to drinking. Drinking is just a addiction. It's just a symptom of a further issue you have. And that was the abuse. You know, I had, you know, the early years, you know, at school and so forth. I was treated by my dad especially. And so I lost my train of thought. What was the question?

Well, I was just asking about 50 years of marriage. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you were saying, you know. You have to, yeah, you have to compromise, you know, and make sacrifices, you know, to make the other partner happy. And that's the only way. I just about lost her because I didn't do that at the start. And that year when my son questioned me,

why I was angry all the time, eh? A week after that he was going to leave me. And that's when he told me, yeah, you always mad at us. You know, talk to us probably. Your son even tells me you don't love us anymore, you know. So I start thinking, what did I do wrong, you know? And then I realized I just put the bottle away. I didn't work on myself.

So I start seeking help and I went and I met this old lady. I mentioned that told me to go to cultural ways and start you know talking about it and get it out that's the only way to heal and so I kept doing that I go to elders say talk to them and most of them say the same thing you have to talk about it get it out you know cry you know and then if you're still mad at yourself you know there's ways to deal with that and I went through a therapy, you know, where you feel the anger and they give you a big stick and you just pound something else all that till you're going to fall down, you know, till you exhausted yourself. So that's the way I used to take or else go somewhere else and just yell at top

of your lungs, you know, try and get it out, you know. So he taught me and, and I appreciate this old lady. And I quit drinking for a while and I still have problems with my children, as I say, they're involved in alcohol too now. And one day I went to a meeting. I was out of town meeting and my wife phoned me that night, you know, always phoned into checking. She says, our son tried to commit suicide. I was so far away, I think it was in Ottawa that time. And I couldn't come home right away. So I was, so I thought I'll go for a walk and I went to an elevator. The elevator open and there's this lady that I was talking to, you know. In Ottawa? Yeah, he was in that meeting too of someone or meeting, but we met there and he asked me, how are you? Of course I told him was okay

and he kept asking me and I said finally told that I'm not okay so I told him what was happening at home and and then he said don't dwell on the things you have to do we're all you know all of us got a lot of things to do you know but you know he remembers when I talked to him at first and you're asking me all this or how was when all that so I told him and he says you came a long ways think about that think how far you came and you're going to go further if you keep dwelling on these other things you know that you have to deal with you'll be overwhelmed and you'll probably you know go back to your where you're drinking days dwell on a positive things, how far you came. So I started thinking about that. And then he says, when you get home,

talk to your son, make him promise. He's not going to do it, you know. So I did that. So I guess, you know, your question. So you have to keep healing yourself. Nowadays, I smudge every morning, pray for a good day and you know pray for my kids my wife and all that in my community and all that so that's how I start off the day and I ask the creator to give me a good day

the end of the day I thank him for the day I went through so that's my routine so your question I guess really not to be thinking about your selfish needs you have to think about the other persons too. And so nowadays we talk, you know, there's something really bothers me.

I tell her and gives me feedback and so back and forth like that. So of course we still get, you know, argue, you know, but none that's... I think there's a healthy relationship when you argue still. Yeah, yeah, you disagreed some areas, but at least you do it in a healthy way. Yes, that's right. That's right. What's maybe one of your proudest accomplishments or proudest moments when you look back? Is there something that sticks out?

If I go back, you know, my really accomplishment is to know who I am finally and try to really pass that to my generation children, you know, their grandchildren and all that. So in material things, I mentioned that when I came back, I mortgage a house. I got the luxury of central heating system, you know, the central water, you know, a well and all that. The sewage system. Other people didn't have that. I worked on that with the leadership and we finally got that for them. So that's a good accomplishment.

material wise, but the most for myself is finding who I am and try to heal and make myself better every day. I don't know how to phrase this, so I'll try my best. What do you think the biggest misunderstanding between Onion Lake and Lloyd Minster is, the communities? I work with the health system. and I always get these complaints how our First Nations are treated you know

and especially at the hospital I think it's because they don't really understand our issues that we had to face and all that and the biggest one is the treaty if both sides really understand the treaty and why we were treated, why we were tried to be done away with. If both sides understand that.

Even some of my first nations don't understand the treaty itself. You know, they think it's really, well, it's not really handled. It's really to take care of us and teach us how to take care of ourselves. You know, when mentioned earlier, I didn't understand where the assistance was coming from. It was really from the welfare services, say, to take care of us, our needs of the food, especially. I thought it was from the treaty as the elders put, but it wasn't so. But they develop all these programs on a reserve that you're dependent on them. You know, if they can also ask us how to solve the problem instead of being at the other end trying to fix our problem.

They can ask us how to fix the problem and be part of the solution how to fix it. I think it'll work that way. but yeah more and more I think it has to be education purposes my part on our part you know more and more and that's the only way now I know I think in Lloyd

high schools here they're starting to teach the treaties and that's starting that's a step yeah but more and more and and so you think the way to bridge the gap then is through essentially communication and acknowledging and understanding what is actually at the bottom of this which is a treaty yeah which at I don't know probably no point has ever been upheld until maybe now or maybe it's not even close I have once again obviously I need to update myself on that as well but you're

saying in your mind the way we come tighter as a community instead of further away is by understanding what lies at the bottom of this well and then from there building back up yeah i uh i mentioned i work with the health system and on even the government always designed programs they try to get you to assimilate you into this uh other for an example health system a pervasive health system. You know, they're trying to assimilate you there. But First Nations had their own health system way before the treaty was signed. They had their own medicine and all that. We need to get back on those. Some of these medicines, they're commercialized. Where First Nations have had them before, before the treaty.

One of the good examples is the aspirin. First Nations had that aspirin way before treaty, and they used it. And there's all kinds of medicines they used before. Some of them are commercialized now. They're patent, you know. That aspirin we use is made from a bark. And a big company patented it. Now it's making a lot of money.

I don't know. I'm getting away from my thought here. But anyway, we have to go back and, you know, go back where things started. Do you think that's possible? Well, I guess that's, I, yeah, well, I sit here and I, I want nothing more than this tight unit, this tight group. And I, uh, I put a circle around Lloyd Minster. I mean, for bike for breakfast, we just did that. We put a circle around Lloyd Minster.

Onion Lake is certainly in there. Yeah. So it's like, okay. Yeah. do we pull everybody together or is that even possible? I think we need, a Lloyd Minister need to go out to Anya League. As I mentioned, I work with the L system. We're always coming in, coming, coming, be part of what, us.

You know, I think it has to be the other way. Okay, you want to be together. Come and learn our ways. and that's what happened way from the start when your parents came out they came out and learned about First Nations

their ways and all that but they stole the land and all these other things medicine and all that and commercialized and let alone they try to destroy the First Nations because the treaty they cannot break it's forever

so I think that's the only way. They have to come out and learn our ways. And that's what I've been telling some of the health officials. Okay. Be part of us. You come this time. We're always going to you. And that's some of them did that. I know David Fan, I don't know, remember him, the CEO before the one big health health region. It used to be other health region, 12 health region. in Prairie North was one of them, you know, and that was the CEO there, and he used to come out, started to learn. So it was the other high-profile officials, you know, used to come out, and that's the only way. And I'm going to tell you another thing. I mentioned about these medicines,

they're really First Nations medicine, but some of them were stolen and patent and all big money now. I don't think we can get those back. But I think our provincial present health system can help us develop First Nations health system. I had the privilege of visiting some other countries. And we visited Alaska. There's First Nations over there. They have their own health system, First Nations over there. They call it, gee, I forget the name, Newvik something.

Anyway, it's a First Nation health system. They had the Federals over there too, and then the state health system, the two health system. Before they had their First Nations health system, and they described exactly what we have today. You know, the provincial health system where the doctors get a salary. No, yeah, fee for service. If you're going to see a doctor, you have. You wait long, eh? You got to make appointment.

Long wait time. If you go to the hospital, long wait time. Health professionals are disconnected. Meaning, if you go see a general practice nurse, and he finds out like you have an issue. you need a therapist. Some will not even tell you that they'll prescribe you pain medicine to kill the pain. And some they'll refer you to a therapist.

That's not city or somewhere and all that. There's no disconnect. You go to a stranger and start your therapy. That's the disconnect. The other thing is they had a high cause. of pain killers in their health system today that's the high cost in First Nations pain killers because doctors will prescribe you pain killers instead of referring you to therapists the problem yeah that's that's what they had is it before

their health system and they never they lost their traditional medicine Nowadays, they have their own health system. If you want to see a doctor over there, you don't wait. If you go to the clinic, you see the doctor right there, no wait time. And then the painkillers they were experienced before went right down. So they saved the federal government a lot of money. but they ask the federal government give us that what we say

and we put it back in our health system so the federal government agreed so in the disconnect I mentioned when they refer you to another specialist and all that they have their own specialist in their health system meaning the therapists so if the doctor knows

something is bothering you it doesn't refer you to another place they have the therapist next to the doctor's office he takes you right there right away and takes you to the therapist and you start your therapy right away they work together

and all these community health nurses work together with the doctors that's primary health care now you know working together and the other fee for service over there there's no fee for service for the doctors. They're paid on salary. So if you go see a doctor over there,

they're not worried about how many people they're put through that day, you know, so they can bring up their money. They're not worried about that because they know they're getting paid for by the day salary. So they'll take the time to talk to you and ask you, you know, quite a bit of questions. Now that relationship with the doctor and the patient is, And then it refers you to specialists. The specialist will be there next door, you know, next office. So they reversed everything of what we have here. And that's what Ania Lake is working on, to try and get a primary health care system.

So it could be done. It was done in other First Nations. So we just need this other side to assist. us get there, federal government and the provincial government. And that's what we've been negotiating our treaty with Anya Lake's on loan. And 2015, the health minister of the day came to Anya Lake and sign a memorandum agreement to start working on a new funding arrangement, treaty-based funding arrangement. can't sign a

MOU but then another government liberals again come in but then then when other players like bureaucrats we're re-educating them

at the moment now but with this COVID it slowed everything down eh so takes time yeah so it could be done it's just

you need to really put people or educate people what we want to do and it could be done if they want to assist us, you know, it'll be much faster.

Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming in and doing this with you. This has been enlightening, to say the least. And I appreciate you being so open about your experiences and everything else. So once again, just thanks for coming in, Albert, and sitting down and doing this with you. Yeah. No, thank you too. Hey, sorry I got emotional, but.

Never, never, on a, dad, came in here. I've interviewed dad in here and he got emotional. You should never be embarrassed about your emotions. Yeah. Right? Yeah. No. Your emotions tell you what impacted your life or what means a lot to you in your life.

Yeah. Whether this is kids or whether this is, you know, you talking about some of the hardest times in your life. That's what you're talking about. Never be. Yeah. I appreciate you opening up. Yeah. And sharing with myself and the listeners.

Yeah. Exactly that. Yeah. And I'm 7 to 5 and I'm still working. I really want to evolve in accomplishment negotiating that treaty with Donia Lake and federal government in the province. So another story to it, you know, how we're going to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like if there's a guy that's going to get it done, it's probably the guy sitting across to me. So best of luck with that. Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot.

Thank you. me. Yeah.