Shaun Newman Podcast - SNP Archives #44 -Dave Dmytryshyn

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

Originally from Glaslyn SK. he would eventually move to Lloydminster where he became the parks & rec director for over a decade. We discuss projects that were built in Lloydminster most notably Russ Robertson Arena, the Curling Rink & Bud Miller All Seasons Park.  Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Support here:⁠ https://www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast⁠

This is Jordan Tutu. This is Grant Fear. This is Glenn Healy. This is Mark Lettestu. Hi, this is Scott Oak. Hi, this is Braden Holby. This is Tim McAuliffe of Sportsnet. Hi, everybody.

This is Darren Greger. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday, hump day. Hope everybody's week is cruising along. It certainly is on this side of things. We got a good one on tap for you today. But before we get there, let's get to today's episode sponsors.

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Originally from Glasgow, Saskatchewan, a former Lloydminster resident, having served as the Parks and Recreations Director from 1973 to 1995. I'm talking about Dave Demetrition. So buckle up. Here we go. It is September 8th, 2021. I am sitting with Dave Demetrician. So first off, thank you, sir, for hopping on.

Thanks for inviting me. Now, you know, by now, by listening to all these, I want to, I know we got a lot to talk about with Bud Miller Park and your time in Lloyd and some of the interesting history that you've been a part of here in this lovely city. but I always want to go back. You grew up in Glasgow, what's some of the early memories of Glasgow that you can impart on the listener?

Well, Glasgow was a, it was an interesting community. It had adjacent to the community, a lake, which be called Perry's Lake, which were most of us learned to skate. It had an arena, had a curling rink, schools. so I remember all those sorts of things.

But as well, I remember playing a lot of street hockey and being part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Christian group. We had lots of our church services and those kind of memories stand out. Now, did you grow up right in Glasgow or were you farmers? Yeah, we were farmers. living in town. So the history, my grandfather immigrated from the Ukraine in around prior to the Second First World War. My grandmother and her family came a little bit later. And so they met in Canada and farm in an area south of the last one called Marlon, just a Marlin district. And so as

As kids, we spent a lot of time out there and farming. My grandfather ran a livery stable when there was still horses and the dray business. So we talk about memories. My memories up until I was 14 years old. And with my grandfather passing away, a memory was spending every Wednesday and Friday after school with him delivering products from the train. So So that's kind of was life, you know, between the farmer and my grandfather on my mom's side, who immigrated from what is now Belarus, or farmers. And so we spent a lot of time in the agricultural fields. Oh, that's my brain goes to so many different spots, Dave.

I'm curious, you mentioned, like, what year were you born? I was born in 1949. In 49. Okay. So at 14, you mentioned your grandfather passes. I'm assuming at 14, you were like most 14-year-olds and didn't ask him much about the Ukraine. But did you ever get an opportunity to talk to your grandparents about where they came from? Belarus and Ukraine are, would have been different cultures for sure.

The unfortunate part is I didn't, the discussions that we did. did have were limited. I know that my grandfather, Demetrician, did not leave of his own accord. He was being solicited to the, I guess more than solicited, directed to the army, to the German army who had, who were part of that area. So I recall that history. On my mother's, my grandmother's side, she used to talk about the area, which was closer to, to what we now know as Slovakia, that the climate, she talked about the climate that you know, picking apples and cherries and those sorts of things.

So I recall that. On my grandmother's side, Belarus, when they were there, it was, so right around, they immigrated around 1930. And it was then, Poland. And so today it's Belarus. So it took us a long time to figure out we know over the years as to where were they exactly what country they were in time. But one of the, my mother's, my dad, by the way, my dad is 100 years old. And my mother is 91. And so over the last few years, I've been asking her questions, not so much about life there because she was six months old.

Actually, she was younger than that, a few months old when they got out of there. And so she talks about stories that she got secondhand about when the Russians were coming through back in 1917 in the revolution. They were moving through and there was relatives that were left for dead in the front yard. of their yards and that sort of stuff. So quite a gruesome life that they had in the Ukraine and in Poland. You know, the reason I ask is if there are even secondhand stories like that are quickly fading. And they're so important. It's so important to hear the stories of where people came from and the persecutions

they escaped and everything else that came from living over there, especially in those times, to hear those stories firsthand, wow, you just can't get that recorded fast enough, quick enough, and ensure it lives on. The other thing that I find interesting is you talk about

delivering produce from the train. I'm curious, could you walk us through that? I don't think even, I'm sure I don't like fully understand, was that with a covered wagon and you go to the train and grab produce or what do you mean? Well, so back, you had recently had on your podcast with the artist. Bill Brownridge.

Bill Brownridge. I should remember his name and start because I met Bill a few times. And by the way, Bill Brownridge's sister used to live in Lloyd Minster. So, but so anyways, what happened there was a train, he talked about the train service in that Vaughn area. So Glassland, which is north, straight north of North Battleford. So there was train service from North Battleford that came through Medstead, which had a creamery, which went through to Turtelford over to St. Walbert. And I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the end of the line,

And I picked up this from another one of your podcast. The end of the line was that at Frenchman's Butte. That was something I didn't know. I picked the thing. So what winds up happening? So this produce comes in various types. And it goes to, you know, so there would be products that goes to Darts Store in Glaslam, Fiduniac's red and white.

There would then be implement equipment that goes to, to different implement dealerships there. And so then my grandfather had a 1953 Ford half-ton truck. And we loaded that thing up and the way we went and delivered. And yeah. I'm truckling it myself because of my covered wagon. What a silly way to put it. Of course, it's track like as soon as I say it.

But, well, you could get where my brain's at tonight. I know. Well, you guys from 1986, so I kind of, you know, right. It's interesting to think, you know, you think about produce and goods now. You just, I mean, sure, they're being delivered by trucks going across Canada, et cetera, et cetera. but, you know, to think of how far it's come from the train bringing it in, back in the truck, up, loading it up and hauling around, it certainly come, well, it's just changed immensely.

Totally. Yeah. Well, Glaslan used to be, so you had the train, and eventually what wound up happening is I always remember, it changed from delivering to Meadow Lake. and they went to different route there and I can't remember exactly how it was. But when the train system faded over the years,

I can't remember what year that was. But then what happened then was they're delivering out of, the train would come as far as North Balford, unload into these warehouses. They had then transports. And there was an exclusive transport company called Quarters Transport out of Meadow Lake. And they, they transfer,

and then they would make stops in Glasteland, you know, caution along the way, the last one, the halfway house up to, I think probably up on the way to Metal Lake and so on. And that's how then produce was delivered. But don't forget, too, and I think I remember back in,

and that would have been in the early 60s, not that they had refrigerated trains, but they had cooling systems of some type within, you know, so there wasn't that produce that was going to be, you know, wasted or gone, going bad or that kind of stuff as it was shipped.

And there may have not have been a whole lot of, you know, of lettuces and salads and that. I can't, you know, I can't remember going to details. How about what was there to do growing up in Glasgowon? What was it, was it school sports? Was it, I don't know, Tom Foolery? Were you getting into trouble? What did you do in Glasgow as a kid?

Well, other than having to go, work. I'll talk about the recreation side, what we did first. And I'll tell you what we did to make a few extra bucks. Seconds. So firstly, fondest memories of playing street hockey in front of our house and in the neighbors. And that were there, a couple three of them. Then we made the big, big move to the west side of Glaston where the Trimner brothers and the Norgan brothers were playing street hockey. That was where the real competition was. So that was, then I mentioned about skating on Perry's Lake. Glassland, you can see behind me, you can see behind me, one of Bill Brown Ridge's prints

of an outdoor rink. And that's my first recollection of where I learned to skate on an outdoor rink. Pushing the pushing a woodman. barrels they were that they that the nails were in to use because they were building the glasthen arena and that indoor arena and uh uh glaslin was one of the one of the first communities i you know i know they were ahead of st walberg spiritwood uh in building rinks glossom was uh was quite a quite a hockey hockey town um so that so that so we played played hockey there and wound up that we didn't have sufficient teams to necessarily go provincial provincials in Glasgow. We used to combine with Turtleford, that that was only 20 minutes away,

half hour, less than half hour. And we would go into midgett C, a midgett C, I played midgett C there, I played midget and I played juvenile and made some great friends. And I still have in my collection pictures of of us, of our teams in Turtford. So that's how we, I can tell you more hockey stories as we go along.

That had to be quite the thing for the new ring to be built. I see the old pictures of Hillmont all the time of the old Silverdome, which I guess is now tore down. So it's come and gone, but I've heard the different stories of my grandfather

and family helping build it and it was quite the structure and that's where I grew up playing hockey and my dad grew up you know flooding the natural ice etc etc i assume in glasland it was it was very much the same it must have been quite the the deal to build that structure and then to have an indoor skating rink compared to being just out on the pond exactly well the thing the thing about glasland arena uh there is there was there's well actually uh three two people in particular guy by name of Bill Loss, Senior, another guy by name of Ed Dart, who had Dart store. And they were true community leaders. And they, there was a cooperative form to build the arena. I recall that. And they ran

bingles for years, drive-in bingles for years and years to operate that arena. The one thing is well about the arena in it, so it's built in back in the early 60s. And here we are in 2021, and it's still standing and it's still in use. And they and when you went to the same Walbergs and I think Hillmont, I stand to be corrected, and there's another arena in in Mayfair, Saskatchewan that were all built of the same same style of roof beams. Glaston went to this arch rib laminated arch rib beans. And and and it's sad to say.

But all of those three rings that I think, I think Hillman, correct me if I'm wrong, Hillman was condemned. I know that St. Walbert was condemned. And I know for a fact, Mayfair was condemned because it caved in. My wife is from that part of the area or part of the world. So, so these, so there was a lot of thought put into building this arena, a lot of planning. The other thing about Bill, Bill Walsh, I have to, I have to mention. So he had a loss scratch, implement dealer card.

So you're familiar with Freddie Sussacquimus? Yeah, you bet. So Freddie Sissacquimus just passed away and he's got a book that just been released. If you go into that, if you read that book, you're going to find two sections of that book where Fred talks about the businessman of the last one. And the businessman, because Bill, was Fred, Freddie Saskatchews came, he played a couple seasons with, with, with the Glasgow Eskimos. And Bill Lofts brought him from, from, from Chilliwack, I think it was a Chilliwack or, there's another 10 BC. He brought him from BC back to Saskatchewan and got him a job.

And this is the kind of, this is how, how Bill and his team ran or his, in this group. organized hockey and it was most exciting time of our lives. You remember watching? Like were you around? I remember watch. I remember. So my, I remember my dad.

I remember with my dad. Bill Loss had a house for where Jack, where Freddie and his wife and children, he had one son. I can tell you, I can take you right to the spot right now today where that house is. And I remember. I remember meeting him.

I remember the games. I also remember one event. After Fred left Glaslam, he went to play for the Meadowlake Stampeders. There's a long drawn-out story about how that change occurred. And I'll keep that, I think that I'll keep that too quiet for the time being. But he wound up playing in Meadow Lake.

And so in the arena arena was set up in Glass and it was seating at the end of the rink. And I remember Bill, I remember Freddie coming to the, from that like he comes to the red line and he fires a slap shot, the goalie. And it was a guy by the name of Bill Batchie was lost, the goalie. And he puts up his hand and his glove to catch the puck. Goes off of his glove, hits him in the face, cuts them up. And I remember the blood all over the place, put a few bandages on him, throw him back out on the ice and the Eagles. Oh, yeah. So that would be what I would have been, I don't know, 11, 11, 12, 13 years old,

something like that. That's something you never forget. Oh, you never. I've told it. And you're not the first guy I've told that story to. I think you're probably about a million, well, many, many, many, many, many, heard that story. If I do my math correctly, and I could be wrong on this, you're roughly 24 when you come to Lloyd, or at least when you start working for the city of Lloyd, which means what do you do in the years between Glasland and Lloydminster? Where are you off to? So I thought I might have a hockey career

so I go to two Estaband Bruen camps don't make the cut, get in an accident, lose most of the year of hockey, make a comeback, and play intermediate hockey with North Battlefield. Go to Chelsea Institute and get a diploma in recreation. and I guess I did spend one year.

I spent, I just, I had made a decision. I was going to spend one year doing nothing but hockey. I played for North Battleford Intermediate against Lloyd Minister Kennedy and O'clock. They got me a job and that's a job. and that's all I did, concentrated strictly on hockey. And after that, I was going to, I was going to put it away. So, well, and I guess in between that, I also played, I, I went to Saskatoon,

when I was at Kelsey, I played a part of one season with the Saskatoon Quakers in the Western Canada, senior hockey league. And then went to Gravelberg, Saskatchewan, bilingual community and southern Saskatchewan. and own my skills there as a recreation director, and then, sports enough, be hired as the Parks and Recreation Superintendent in Westminster. Now, you'll have to forgive me, but if you listen to me enough by now, Dave, you know I picket things because otherwise I will get off this thing, and I will always wonder. So you mention you get in an accident.

What do you mean you get in an accident? So you talk about boys will be boys and getting into trouble. So I got into a, you were just horsing to another guy, a friend of mine and I were horsing around. And I hit the turf and hit my elbow. A little scratch, never thought nothing of it. A week, a few days later, a week later, I'm in a semi-coma. I got a suction in my left elbow and there's even consideration of, they might have to amputate my left arm.

So I was strong enough to come back. All the skin from the front of my left cat, my left thigh is on my left elbow. And so that semi-coma that I was in just knocked the hell out of me. And as I'm listening to you, you know about the game. and when you're that age that I was, when you're not at the top of your game, you know, your chances are pretty minimal. Geez, that's a lot to swallow, isn't it?

That's a hard thing to go from horsing around to having a scratch on your arm to a coma. Like that, did it happen that fast? What, three or four days, yeah, yeah. I remember like it was yesterday, you know, waking up in the morning. I mean, my arm is swollen up and I, geez, I can't, I can't, I can't sleep or can't stop sleeping. And actually, my brother, Jerry was with my mom, believe it or not, in Gravelberg, Saskatchewan, it's a provincial, Sanlott Championships that weekend.

My dad won't have taken me to the hospital, but that's another note about Glassland and sports there. But in a ways, yeah, that's what's happened. The Sanlott Championships, we're talking baseball? Baseball, yeah.

I'm going to sound like a complete nutter moron, and I guess I'm never afraid of doing that, but obviously I grew up watching the movie Sandlot, I obviously know it means baseball, but I didn't realize they used to call it the Sanlott Championships. I don't think I've ever heard that call. And maybe that just shows me that I'm not a giant baseball guy. Well, that's why you're doing these interviews.

I guess so. I'm learning, I learn new things all the time. And I've learned things from your podcast, too, by the way. So Sanlott was 12 and under. So 11 and 12 year olds. Okay. I guess I just I never pieced it together everybody's watched the movie sandlot heck even my oldest son who's only five has watched the sandlot and I've just never like pieced it together but hey there you go okay we're firing now Dave you enter Lloyd you come to Lloyd what attracts you to Lloyd besides a job like I mean obviously or was it just like listen this is a huge opportunity and and then you come yeah what was the opportunity I was familiar you know not having lived in Glasgow there was we only we got only one TV station and that happened to be Lloyd Minster and then

eventually tuned I see both of CKSA and CITL I think that's what was yeah and so we were very very familiar with Lloyd Minster I played hockey there with North Battleford I had a really good memories of a of a playoff in the prevent it actually was the Saskatchewan intermediate, I think it was, they called it double A at that time, uh, provincial finals.

And then I knew, I knew some people there. Um, so that, so Lloydminster had a reputation. And, uh, I was looking to move on and to move on up. And,

um, yeah, so that's, uh, that's what attracted me of Lloydminster. What do you think of Lloyd when you first rolled through back in the early 70s? That'd be 1973. Yeah, exciting, exciting, exciting, exciting.

My first day, they actually, Pat Gulak, Mayor, who we hope we came, Mayor, she remember her inviting me, asking me, and Blair Bostield, who was the city manager, city commissioner, time, by the way, fabulous man. The, and I'm asking if I could come in a couple of days early, because the administer of, of, of, of, of, of recreation and culture. Horace Schmidt was his name. He became quite well known in the province. He was coming to visit Lloydminster. And if I could come in, they could meet him and meet other people from the province. So that was, that was exciting.

And yeah, just larger facilities. You know, Lloydminster was, Lloydminster has always been a happening, there's been a happening town. You go back to the, you know, to the late 40s and 50s when they built the excelsior. refinery there and in Husky doing what they've been doing. Lloydminster has always been a very, very progressive community.

So you mentioned excitement. It doesn't take long. You know, when we first started the email communications, you mentioned Bud Miller Park. And you mentioned that you were there between, you know, for the start of it all the way through. But that's still, you know, a full. decade away before you you guys get to that point when you roll in in 1973 and you're working

with the city and you're getting uh you know the excitement's rolling things are growing what is what is the what is the let's just take me back i guess to the 70s what were you worried about in lloyd minster at the point in time well loidminster uh so 1973 74 uh well one of the key things in 1974, that that that that white minister was the host of the northeast Alberta winter games in February of 1974. So that that included that east uh eastern block of Alberta from wane right up to Coal Lake, Fort McMurray, all those. They were all coming. And so there was a there was a group of volunteers that had been organizing that game very well, very well organized. So I was able to to fit and that was where the excited as well excitement and action was as 74 as 75 there was a movement for more more skating rinks

the car the curling club which was over at the exhibition grounds was was was having you know it got grown there i think there was only a three or four sheets there and so there was need for recreation facilities So that was the other part of the excitement is the lawyer minister was growing. So and that's where we're coming toward, getting preparation towards the end of the decade, mid-decade, where the communiplex project was born. And out of that came, you know, was the arena of the golf clubhouse, the dance studio, communityplex or pardon me the Russ Robertson Arena and and Mount Joyce Key Hill and so here we are young this being on that you know new to

recreation you know just fantastic experiences and working with some some outstanding individuals and I think that's one of the things that I can't overemphasize you know the Bill Conrose the the the the And I actually got the Bill Condrell, Stan Vins, the Leo Desetz of the world. All of those, you know, real top-notch businessman, all contributing, helping fundraise. And it was a real tough time because we were at the stage of major inflation. So typically when you were to tender a building, you would just, if you would go the usual, you would design a building, hire an architect, design,

input from the community, you know, the space, space requirements, all that sort of stuff. And tender, going to lowest bidder, boom, you're done. You go, everything goes smooth. That's not the way it was in the 70s. You couldn't keep a price for 30 days, let alone 90 days or six months.

And so the city of Lloyd Minster, and that's where I go back to guys like Roger, Breckle and Blair Boasfield and Bill Condrell. Wanted with a city became the general contract for that for the construction. Hired a project manager, hired an engineer architect, went in, went to the design build stage and got best prices. And that's where I, be honest with you, from those guys, those gentlemen and people like Kay Matheson or Kay Young, learned how to deal with people and development. Yeah, so that's what was happening.

That's what was happening between that and Bud Miller. Can we just stop? I think I got this right. You said the communiplex, which is the golf course, the curling rink complex. So I've heard the stories, I think it was from Rustway Construction, Russell, I think when they talked about doing the dirt work and stuff for the golf course and everything like that.

So I've kind of heard bits and pieces about that. Then you mentioned Russ Robertson, Mount Joy, and a dance studio. Now, obviously, I know where Russ Robertson is, because I grew up playing in there all the time. I know where Mount Joy is. The dance, what dance studio are you talking? Okay. So the dance studio, they remodeled the lower section of the golf course, about golf club.

So when you walk in the front door, when we built it, when we walked in the front door, to the left was the clubhouse. You know, where you've paid your, and that sort of registered and that sort of stuff. To your right was another door into a room,

which had a dance floor. The reason that had to be a, and there was a lot of pushback over that, to get this grant, we got a grant, and I haven't got all the numbers at my fingertips about. And I got to be honest, Dave, I'm not sure the numbers matter nearly as much as the story

and the history. So the story behind it then is because of that grant, we had to contribute or provide a certain amount of space, what they call cultural space. And so the dance community and my minister was strong, various types of Ukrainian dancing, other things and that's why that that's where that space was the dance was the dance studio wow i did not i've never heard that before i've never knew there was a studio there um who who read did the city run a dance studio or did somebody take that on no the city never the city so what wound up happening when we started off um we to try to keep the volunteer component component

heart strongly involved. What won't up happening if this a operating, a community was formed. And so there was, so there was representatives from courting golf, I don't know all these difference. And then council, I think there was some non-user types that were on the group. I know Stan Bins was one of them.

Kee Matheson was involved. Bill Condrell, obviously, from the transition from construction to operation. So there was this, operating committee. And so what they, uh, what they did is they hired a, uh, a manager. And, and for years and years, that building was able to generate sufficient enough, uh, revenue to, uh, to keep itself going. Um, you know, after I'd left, uh, things changed, but during, I don't talk only about this era that I was involved with and uh, did I mention the racquetball

courts in there? I might have been. missed it. You miss the racquetball courts, but I think, like, I remember the racquetball courts. I guess I just don't remember the dance studio at all. Story behind the racquetball courts. There was a lot of, there was pushback about us building those courts, public versus private. Public, should the community be, should the, the, the, the, the public be building a, a racquetball court? Because he, was big at that time or should it be left to private enterprise. So anyways, that was a bit of an issue we continued to deal with.

Did you ever get used to dealing with the public scrutiny on what your group or the city was doing? I assume it hasn't changed much. I assume people are constantly scrutinizing what the city is doing with taxpayer dollars and what they're building and what they're, you know, trying to upgrade, et cetera, et cetera. I never, no, scrutinizing the public purse was never an issue to me. I appreciated when someone, either the, whether, and we don't text or email, when someone phoned me and wanted to have a discussion about what we were doing,

I had all the time in the world. If they met me on the street, I had all the time in the world, except if I was with my wife and son. And then, that would then be a bit of a problem, but we worked our way through that. Here's my card. Give me a call. We'll chat another time. But I had, I have, to this, to this very day, I have no problem talking about what we do in municipal government, why we do what we do in municipal government, and how we do it in municipal government. So it's, it's, it to me, scrutinizing is not, is a non-issue. How about Mountain Joy? Was that a spot that people had always gone to? Was that a spot that you found? Is there a story behind Mount Joy that you can tell?

Well, I think the story, when you interviewed Roger Becker, former city commissioner, I think he outlined to you quite well, to the listeners quite well as the long further back history of Mount Joy. I wasn't the skier, but there was, and again, this Lloydminster commitment to volunteerism, Lloydminster commitment to business and industry contributing to recreation and sports facility development. And so it so happened that that is an opportunity to do a fundraising and the community itself wanted to grab as many things as possible and you got to remember too you do one you leave somebody out

you know all those sorts of things this way there was a true community community effort to building to building these facilities that I've described to you well you think about it Russ Roberts is still running and people always you know have qualms about the size of it but like for kids it's a great arena

and actually the upgrades they put on it it's a great arena and it's still going the golf course gets a ridiculous amount of use the curling rink gets a ridiculous amount of use and mountain joy is still running strong so you think about those three projects in itself like it's it's it's all recreation but they're all over the map like that that's pretty cool that those happened you know i just i don't know there must have been a buzz in the office i assume when you you know you're looking around you're going okay guys we got a blank slate we need to figure out how to do it one, two, three, four, how are we going to do it and where are we going to do it, right? Like that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And one of the things that, and, you know, Blair Bowfield and Roger, the two C, the city managers that I work for there, we're both committed to planning, future planning, whether it's planning, whether it's planning, infrastructure, engineering, wives, roads, have, requisite.

facilities, those sorts of things. So we were we were doing parks and recreation master plans. We were doing open space, open space and trails master plans. So we were we were into the game so that we just didn't wake up one morning and say, well, I think this is the right spot for it. And and as well, the the input from all the different association, sports associations and clubs and, you know, so they were, they were very good contributors. So just, well, I've got it on my mind. You talked about the golf course. And Wayne, Russell, did a good job explaining the fund, the work, the volunteer work.

Behind that, the golf course used to be nine holes of golf. And so there was a need to expand to 18. obviously, how do you expand that part of the world? So the city of Lloyd Minister used to operate an airport. And that airport was ran adjacent to the exhibition grounds over there on the east side, between the exhibition grounds and the cemetery. And it went further, it went further back towards the city shop,

but did that vicinity. So what wound up happening is, is the city, and I was part of the team, the group of us working with the golf course and the exhibition grounds. So the city wound up donating lands to the exhibition grounds for their expansion and their growth. And then entering into a 99-year lease with the golf club to expand from nine holes to 18 holes. and then the golf club will end up hiring a golf course architect or golf course planner and they design the holes

and how that facility would sit adjacent to the communityplex building. A lot of wheeling and dealing is what you're saying. Yeah, I would use, wheeling and dealing is a fine word to use, but I would say negotiation, collaboration, discussion, give and take, all of those sorts of things, right? And when you wheel to me, when you wheel and deal, I give up something to you and you give up something to me.

When we talk about collaboration, we're talking about doing things that are best for each other. Yeah, that's fair. Wheeling and dealing, you're probably right. That's more of NHL deadline, Oilers trading for Chris Pronger type thing. That's right. Yeah.

And the reason I'm sensitive to those kinds of words, because in my life over the years, the municipal government is still in this municipal consulting business, we see so often where people, where two municipalities get positional or two groups get positional. and who suffers but the community. Suffer emotionally, suffer financially,

suffer in what's best for the community. Yeah, that's fair. It's interesting to hear how things come about. I'm curious. I asked this one of Roger Brecko. He, I don't know if he dodged the question or not,

but you were around enough years. Did you ever hear any talk of an overpass, over or underpass, for that matter, around the train? trains. You know, that's, that's been a common theme all my life. And I've never ever, you know, I'm sure it was a common theme back then, too. Well, yeah, we've heard it. There's no question there was discussion, you know, as Roger had indicated physically, you know, with the room that was there, how would you, how would you fit it in? The other, the other, the other discussion that occurred was

was a big concern was one-way streets in Leinester at that time. There was elections won and lost over the positions over whether there should be one-way streets. And that's highway, that's 17. 17 north. And then over on 49th Avenue. The other thing that was being promoted was, was, being promoted, was. the you know the bypass but the rail you know the rail the rail rail lines uh was an issue and i think it's

just you know historically stuff happens like that and it's tough to get around and it's very very you know very very expensive and so it goes back to the public funds uh you got to remember back in that in those days going into the 70s uh water and sewer was a was a was a a major, major issue. And it actually had a reflection on Bud Miller All Seasons Park. The city was getting its water from the wells over at a lake north of, all of my mind, my blank, north of Sandy Beach. Sandy Beach, at Sandy Beach, there's a lake right beside Sandy Beach. was a smaller lake, ran that thing dry. And so there was the demand, both from the environment and the community, to have,

if the community is going to grow, it needs to have, have water. And so there was, I, Roger knows the number better than me, but it was 47 to somewhere between 47 and 49 million dollars. And that was big money back in those days to bring water to, from the North Saskatchewan River. And then we had portions of Lloyd Minster. There were portions of Lloyd Minster. I mean, I believe it was kind of about that area in that 39th Street area, 36th Street area. It was continuously flooding.

Had to come up with the plan. And it's where Roger did a great job in coming up with this surface stormwater management system, storm lake system. It helped it helped the stormwater. It helped with, you know, why this to not have any streams or creeks. So, you know, those water bodies, which are always attractive. And so, so there was a lot of, a lot of, a lot of things on the table that the city was trying to deal with, let alone the economy of inflation, let alone, and you're, I understand,

you've involved in the oil and gas business. I've seen, I've been in Lloyd Minister where one day there's you couldn't get moved traffic down the street. And the next day, you're shooting a cannon down the street. And you're not going to hit anybody or anything. Well, just look at, just, just look at this last year.

There's last year. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, no, no, no. I think you've done actually a pretty good job, David. You're bringing to light a bunch of issues that you had to solve, and you don't have, you know, as much as Trudeau and the liberals right now, have an endless supply of money.

Lloyd Minster back then certainly would not have had an endless supply of money, so you had to pick and choose and you had to fix the problems that were relevant. I've always said, I always, and this may lead us into my mouth, I always said when I was younger, I used to drive in, we drive to North Belford and I'd see that River Valley in North Saskatchewa River Valley and put it into North Battleford. So I'd say, you know, if I had a million dollars, I'd just be able to build them. We'd be able to build the nicest park. And then we wound up getting multi-millions of dollars to build the park. And we could not meet all the needs of the community, and the demands of the community.

with that $8.5 million that we got. And from then on, I got thinking, I don't care how much money you have. You put the number, whatever number you want to have, you want to put on it. You don't have enough. You don't never meet all of the demands. And, yeah, so that's, that's my kind of take.

Let's talk about Bud Miller. You know, Bud Miller Park, is I don't care what anyone says about any other town. It is a gorgeous park. Like it is just, you know, I was saying at the start of this before we started that, you know, some of my early memories are going there and the fireworks and I don't know if we'd call them festivals, but certainly now with the kids, the blow-up fairs, I'm forgetting what they call them, like Canada Day and all the different festivities they have there.

And now with the, the, the, the water park, you know, upgrade and everything else. It's just become, I don't know, we take the kids there all the time. It's gorgeous. And like you say, it was built in her, I believe you said, 1986. So it's my age. It's 35 years old. And it is continuously, I don't know, it's a great place to go.

It's got to be the busiest place in the summer in Lloyd Minster, bar none. Like, it's just, it's a great spot. and I got to be honest, I'm curious about how this all gets to be and where the money comes from. You mentioned $8 plus million. How does this all come to fruition? You know, you talk about all these different projects. How does Bud Miller Park become topic of discussion? We need to do this and how do things fall in the place?

Well, that's one of the things. Lloydminster to me, the year, the 20-some years I spent, has always been exciting. And it was always something new coming. And this, so how this one came about was back in, first of all, I have to go back in the province a little bit more. The Herring Alberta's Heritage Trust Fund was used first of all back in this, I think it was 1973 or something in that range to build a provincial, the province wanted to improve access to its citizens to outdoor spaces in newsleties. So it started with Calgary. The Fish Creek Provincial Park was established.

They didn't want to go. The next step, they didn't want to go continue to run parks themselves but provincially. So the capital regional park and trails in Edmonton became the city. Then in 1980, the Alberta Urban Park. program was born. And that, that again funds coming, I think something like $56 million or something in that range, coming from from the Heritage Fund to the city of Red Deer, City of Lethbridge, City of Grand Prairie, City of the Manas Sahat, and the City of Lloydminster. So, so the story behind that is Bud Miller,

was then the minister of public lands and wildlife. And I remember he obviously had before he called me, but he had discussions with the mayor and which was the Bill Condo at the time and keeping them informed about this possibility. And I remember one afternoon getting a call from Bud and says, how would you like to get this grant and tell me what you would do with it? Fortunately, we had finished off the open space, or pardon me, the open space master plan as well as the Parks and Recreation Master Plan.

So the community had identified what it kind of wanted to see for recreation facilities, and that type of the space was one of them. So out of that, over the coming years, we were fortunate enough, the province had a group led by, guy by name of Cliff Lacey out of Alberta Parks and Recreation. And, yeah, yeah, I think it's parks from there. But anyways, so he wound up hosting, organizing in each one of the five communities. over multiple years where we had workshops where we exchanged ideas we talked we we found out about what's happening in the world of park development so and maybe i should go back one step further

it so happened that peter trenchi who was the minister of the parks and recreation for the province was they was was close to budd and and Bud and Mr. Trenche had discussions, and Lloydminster. The story goes we won off over a couple other news aboutities that may have been ahead. And Bud's contribution was significant in Lloydminster being able to get this funding. Now, when you get the funding, was... Is Bud Miller today what you had designed? Or was it something different?

Did you have to twist and turn the design? Or was it like, boom, that's it. Boom, let's get her done. So we hired an landscape. Well, first of all, we had an internal group. That's included the city engineer, Jim Duckworth. By that time, the city had a planner, Rob Hansberg and myself and from the staffing side, we then, with the support from the advisory committee,

wound up hiring a landscape architect, EDA collaborators, is the name of the group. Ted Muller was the creator. and he he he he he he he saw the land that that we had and and actually we wound up the land that the 200 acres you got to remember that was outside of the city limits at the time it was inside of it was inside of the state of the county of vermillion river so we were we had we were working with land that was not in our jurisdiction. And so we had to deal, and there was an annexation application process going on. So we were dealing with them. So we brought, so Ted came in with his group and they had another consulting engineer ID engineering. They came up with the design. And we started floating. We had,

we had workshops, we had open houses. We actually, we actually had a storefront in Lloyd Mall. And people would come by, take a look, provide their feedback, their comments, those sorts of things. So we did that design. And then we started tender. We actually, we didn't tend. There wasn't one big tender. So there was a variety, a number of tenders. So I think we started off with, you know, with the roads, obviously.

And built our way, we built our way servicing water and sewer. you know, drainage, a lake, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Was there anything in the original design you wished would have stayed, or did it all, all the things you wanted with the park, did it stay? We wanted to build the, we wanted to build the lake larger. As it turned out, we got another granite and was able to expand it. So that came about. I can't say that my recollection that we missed a whole lot.

You know, maybe we could have had more campgrounds, more our picnicking areas. We maybe could have utilized. Nothing like you were hoping to have, and I don't even know what, honestly, I mean, it's a beautiful park. There's a reason why everybody enjoys going

Bud Miller. It's got pretty much a little bit of everything. I got to ask, they're tearing it up right now. They're changing it out. When you originally put in the lawn bowling, was lawn bowling a big thing in town? I've never played lawn bowling. So I'm just, I guess I'm curious, there must have been a group of people once upon a time that really, really enjoyed that sport. There was. And actually, the seniors, there was a guy by name of Francis. Barnesley who was who was promoting and we can chat later about the legacy center that was built later later on but the there was a movement there to to get lawn bowling and we were trying again trying to meet the needs of not you know of young people older people middle age people that

sort of thing and we thought that we could make lawn bowling work but um be honest with you for the years, we could never seem to get that facility operating property. And I'm not sure what they're doing with it right now, but that space. But obviously, consulting with the community and a better use with the – Yeah, they've got a backhoe sitting in it right now. It's all tore up. And I believe, don't quote me on this. And I hate to even say it because if I'm wrong, then it'll go down on the books.

is me being wrong, but I believe it's turning into pickleball is what I've heard. And that's a very popular thing these days. I mean, even in the last couple of years, they've expanded the tennis courts, which is a growing sport in town. And I know there was some backlash over that, but I always like, I mean, tennis is, there's a ton of people playing tennis now. And the volleyball courts are fantastic. And I don't know, I can rave and rave and rave about Bud Miller Park. I got young little kids. we take them there all the time. Yeah. Well, the, and you know, the thing is time, time doesn't sit still.

Things, things are different today than they were in, you know, in 1986. And I know that the city, you know, continues to, you know, to approve. And there's some, there's some sort of, there's some, I would call them sacred, but, you know, the tree plantings, right? You know, it takes years and years to grow a tree. So preservation, there's that area where there's some different trees that were planted that were not unique to the region. And so preservation of the marshland, there was a movement at foot one time, and I recall this, didn't, where there was a desire to come in. where there was a desire to come into that marshland area and directional drill an oil well to the north of the park. And yeah, that was a little bit of exciting times.

That's an interesting word choice for that. It wasn't quite as diplomatic when that idea came from my particular colleague. But in a ways, I didn't thank God that we were able to convince it that that wasn't the best way to use public lands. And so, yeah, you know, so that was the idea to always name it after Bud Miller then? or when does that become the idea like this this is what we want to we want to call it well we didn't we didn't have we went we started through it for many year a long a long time without without an aim so what was it called in the beginning just the park yeah yeah major park we didn't because we were we were we were kind of too busy building I guess and then the time came

And I can't remember exactly when in the steps that we decided to, that the community came up with the idea to, through council and, and the advisory committee that Bud Miller should be appropriately recognized. And there was genuine support for his contribution, not only because of the park, but his contribution to Lloyd Minster in general, you know, between Lakeland College, between the upgrade or other grant programs and funding that, you know, Bud was a real promoter of Lloyd Minster. And Lloyd Minster was better for it. Yeah. How long from start to finish did it take you to do Bud Miller? I'm curious.

of a park that size, building the lake, all the facilities. Do you have a timeline of how long it took you? Yeah, about about, right over summer seasons. I think about three, three summers or so, something like that. I think we started 83, 84 somewhere in that. I think it's probably 83 we started. And it didn't get officially open until 86, correct? The 86, yeah.

So one of the things, by the way, just speaking of the park, a matter of fact, West Saunders used to have a half hour, well, 20 minute show, weekly show about the community. And we had, you know, he covered Bud Miller really, really well. So what we did wind up doing is we had Ted Mueller come with the Atlantic. Skipe architect along with Wes and his cameraman and they walked the road, the entry road before it was built through the field. And they walked and and and Ted would explain what's going to go here, what's going to go there. We got and at that particular time, I think we were starting, we were starting to the lake. because I remember some of us were interviewed in that video by what is now,

where the amphitheater is. And so we see the lake, or we see the park from its absolute infancy and to where you see it today. You stay on with the city of Lloyd until 95. So another essentially nine years after Bud Miller is going. is there any other big project you know i think you mentioned the legacy center is there any other big project i mean there's probably multiple but it really sticks out in your mind i don't want to hold you here all night and i would like to know i honestly would like to know i always i always like to hear about uh what you've learned from marriage in 47 years david is is impressive to

say to least so i want to get to that too before i let you go but over your last nine years in lloyd is Is there anything else that you hang your hat on? Like, that was a really good project to be a part of it. Maybe there's multiple, but maybe one of your favorites? One of the things that kept people something like, well, why would you stay in Lloyd Minister for 20-some odd years? That's, you know, in local government, you know, that's just about unheard of. And I know Roger was very fortunate spending his entire career there.

But nowadays, that's not the case. It's those facilities and the new facilities that kept me there. The legacy center, the Bar Colony Museum, Bar Colony Heritage Cultural Center, doing master plans, planning. We did arena studies and all sorts of things. It prepared me as well. I was able to start my further education at Athabasca University in Lloydminster. And so it gave me a sense to try to, where do I want to, where do I want to, where do I want to go?

But I do want to leave, I think a favorite to me was the Bar Colony Heritage Cultural Center. And the reason for it was it was a guy by the name of Richard, Richard Larson. And I have to talk slower now because I get emotional a lot. So what makes it, what I remember most about it is back when we talk about Bud Miller All Seasons Park being that's sort of the place to be today. Back in the old days, well, Weaver Park was the place to be. That's where they had functions and major functions. And the museum was an attraction. And Weaver Park came about because Richard Larson had a vision.

Richard Larson was a counselor, a long-term resident of the Lloydminster. And Mr. Weaver, and I forget his first name, lived on that house. The house is still there on the corner in that tall stand of spruce trees. and he had a orchard. And Richard saw, and Mr. Weaver saw the vision to be able to preserve that space for eternity. By becoming, by being in public lands. So Richard did fundraising to have the church, the old log church move there. He led fundraising to build the Fuchs wildlife.

collection. He raised funds for the steel buildings that were there for the various artifacts. And his pride and joy was raising funds to build. It was that time. It was called Bar Colony Museum. And we didn't want to lose, we wanted to have that building that had the art gallery and such, didn't want to lose the site of a of recognizing the bar colonists because Lloydminster has nothing other day was bar colony school but nothing of public nature to recognize the bar colonists so so the group came up with the name bar colony heritage keeping the museum side cultural with the with the art gallery side center and so so his his fundraising approach was Richard just, you know, a Danish heavy accented guy, just fabulous personality.

The deputy prime minister from, it was Don Mazankowski, was our minister on the, Alberta, he was a minister. And Bill McKnight was a, was a minister of defense on the Saskatchewan side between the two of those, we were able to get, or we, the community was able to get a major cultural grant to build that building. And Richard and Richard was the, was the push behind all of that. And one of the things, the way, and this was interesting, the way he used to raise money was he had the locker plant town. He knew, he knew everybody in the region. And, and him on I got to know each other really, really well. And he bring funds. He'd come, well, you have to already have been up to this afternoon. Richard, well, he says, I just got back from a funeral.

Do you tell me the name of the person? Yeah, and I was able to pick up, you know, I don't know how many dollars. And people would bequeath some of their life earnings sometimes to him, to that facility. And that's why I get emotional. Well, that's an interesting story because once again, there's another facility that is moving. It's, they're building a new building as we speak, and it's going to be in a new facility here come. Well, actually, I don't know the intended move-in date for it, but it is moving facilities right now. And so it is good to talk about because otherwise people will forget all about that story for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't know what, you know, I keep in touch with people over there, but I don't know the rationale or those sorts of things behind. And, you know, there's good professional people there and people who are committed to the community. But there are people committed to the community forever there in Lloydminster. And, you know, we talk about the Bar Colonists. I remember a story where, and probably Lynn Smith probably knows this person's name, but one of the original, he was a bar colonist, a child, came over as a child. And he was an elderly gentleman, and he was an event.

And they would always get him to speak at these tents. He'd say, yep, you know, and he was being in his 90s at times. He says, I've come to Lloydminster by oxen, I come by horse. I come by train, by car. He says, by plane, I've never been able to parachute into Lloydminster, but I think I might try that the next time I come to town. It's the, yeah, just a real storyteller. Well, I agree with you.

If there's one thing I'm proud of of this community, it is the people that make it up because, you know, your generation, I get to hear the stories. You've been listening all the stories of the people who came before us, and it's nothing short of impressive of what they've done to put us where we are. And I can safely tell you there's tons of people in town that are continuing to carry on, I guess, the legacy of what was before us. There's no question about that.

It's a special place made up of really special people, really cool, people you like to rub shoulders with, that's for sure. Yeah. Well, you know, in Lloydminster, you know, we talk about the oil and gas with, I mean, it's an agricultural community. You talk about the role of the exhibition board and the, you know, and the farming community and as you're, you're, where you're from in the Hillmont area. And, you know, there's, you know, there's, you know, it's great land, great, great cattle operations. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's up, uh, it's up, uh, uh, it's up, uh, uh, it's up. Uh, it's, it makes up, uh, uh, uh, it's up. Uh, it's up. from a variety of different backgrounds. 110%, David. No question about that. Lloyd is bigger than just Lloyd. I say that lots because it's the surrounding community

that's a part of this as well. Before I let you go, I would not do myself service. If I didn't ask you about your personal life a little bit more, because, I mean, you've been married for 47 years. How did you meet your wife? So while we first met, remember I was talked about, I've come from a Ukrainian orthodox background.

So we met in passing at a Ukrainian youth event in North Bautilford. And then the Kelsey Institute in Saskatoon, she was in nursing and I was in recreation. And we met there. I was going A couple friends of mine If we were going to see the Saskatoon Commodores play baseball Want to know if you want to come along

And that That was the beginning So in 47 years And congratulations on that If there is one really cool thing And if once again I don't forget where I'm at in the old archive At this point 40 plus episodes

I probably say this an awful lot but I truly mean it. 40 plus years of marriage, 47 to be exact for you. First off, my hat's off to you. That's impressive. What can you tell us about 47 years of marriage? What have you learned? What do you hang your hat on?

And, well, any story you'd like to share? Well, patience. And, you know, don't get mad. You know, and result. the problems, you know, whenever they come up and, and keep the dialogue going. You know, it's easy to, it's easy to walk away. That's the easy, that's the easy part. It's, it's the challenge is to be able to stay through the highs and lows, and that's where the, where the, where the happiness comes.

That's, uh, it's very good advice. I was going to follow it up with, maybe what's one of the best lessons you've learned across your life then keeping my mouth shut at the right time I'll tell you I'll tell you how that I'll tell you a Lloydminster story so when I go out to Lloydminster story uh Blair bolstere I talked about Mayor Bolstiel and he says that I can remember a couple months out Dave uh want you to come to uh to the uh properties committee meeting. Well, proper, what's what's that about? So last way we deal about land use and planning and, you know, approvals and that sort of stuff. I says, Blair, why would you want me to, why would you want me to be there? I mean, I'm the recreation guy. He says, Dave, you, you come in and you sit down

and you listen, keep your mouth shut and learn. And in that room was the Russ Robertsons of the world, the Richard Larson's, the, you know, the Stan Bins, the kind of guys that were, you know, the decisions that, these guys were all older than my dad. And they were, and I'm learning from them. And so my interest in municipal government from then turned from not into records, but to planning and working with people, municipal planning, land use and infrastructure and whole nine yards. And that's where I learned it was from him, or started. I don't, I should say, I learned from it started with them and from others, whether I'm sitting in the room with an architect, a planner, an engineer,

an elected official, a prime minister. I was in Weaver Park. I spoke to Prince Philip when they were there, you know, all of those sorts of things. I shouldn't see I spoke to him. He spoke to me. But yeah. So those are the kind of things that live and learn. You're not the first on here to say that.

I believe Bill Musgrave always mentioned when you go into a room, listen and learn. And I think Tom Hoffman was another one that said the exact same thing as sitting on boards and seeing really great men and women and how they conducted themselves and everything else. So you do have a very good point there. And you know, what listening gives when you're in that room, what listening provides you. it gives you is the opportunity and i think bill musgrave talked about it it gives you the opportunity to read the room you know and how people are acting reacting the tone of voices they uses he use and and um i i've also uh uh have a uh a mediation certificate in that in that one of the things that that I've learned from mediation is the importance of listening and deep listening,

not just listen, but being able to listen to the other person. If there's been one lesson I've learned from the podcast and doing these interviews as well, both of them combined, is, man, if you can just listen, it's patience. Right? Because you want it, you want to, you want to hop in all the time. But if you can, if you can just sit back and, and pull from the other person, you're absolutely correct. Like, you will learn immense amount of information that you didn't think was possible. Yeah. So this, this consulting business that I'm doing right now is we do a lot of interviews. And I first started on it three years ago, that was my most, that was the most difficult part.

But actually, I wound up, rather than asking the questions and listening, I wanted to tell them the story. And what was supposed to be a half hour, you know, interview and you got 10 people lined up during the day. You know, it's a little difficult. But, but yeah, it's, and I notice that when you're in your podcast, you're doing a good job in being able to get to the root of the questions that you want to ask. well I I found you can't put a time limit on an interview like that's that's the worst thing to do because then as the interviewer you stare at the clock the entire time going on man I only got like 17 minutes left I only got whatever man right and you're not thinking about it anymore all you're thinking about is the time so a time limit really hinders an interview because all you're worried about is how close you are to the clock when you shouldn't be worried about that at all you should be worried about the person right across from you and trying to figure out what makes what's the meaning of their life essentially, especially in these ones, is what makes, you know, what fills you up? What makes you get up every morning and go after it? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And I think one needs to have the passion to be able to do that, right?

And that reminds me of, you know, I said I had one son. I have a son, Dan, and a daughter, and Mara Jackie. And Dan's a civil, civil engineer, and Jackie's a PhD in organic chemistry. And these two have have, have the passion for what they do. And actually Dan learned his passion for engineering in Lloydminster. As he learned to read the plant. He was in my office at three, four and five years old, reading the plant. the plans of the leisure center or some building we were building. We would go to after hours, I'd go to a job site and there would be pipes laid around. Next thing they know they're in the vehicle. The next thing they're in the sandbox.

So that passion in getting up and doing what you love is so important. Yeah, I 100% agree. Before I let you go for the night, Dave, is there anything else that, You know, I've certainly touched, or we certainly have touched on a lot. Is there anything you want to, you want to impart with, or anything that I didn't scratch upon that you think needs to be talked about? Well, I think, I think that probably trying to look at the facilities in Lloydminster and change, change happens.

but making sure that change doesn't occur just for the sake of change, but change occurs for improvements and for a better quality of life for the citizens of Lloydminster. And I think that's sort of, and again, as well, the community continuing its efforts as it has shown over the years and I you know there's so many people that I I I would have liked to have identified where you know their contribution to whether it's you know Leighen Bar Ball Park or you know Bill Armstrong in the football program and you know you know there's this the list goes on and you know Vic Juba and his his contributions to to the community

you know, it goes on that, you know, the torch just continues to be passed on to others. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I do appreciate sitting down with me tonight, Dave, and I appreciate you telling us, you know, the stories from back in your time here and a little bit about your life and growing up in Glasgow and everything in between. So thank you so much for sitting down with me. Good.