Shaun Newman Podcast - SNP Archives #48 - Hazel Perrier

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

Born in 1931 at age 91 she has a sharp mind. We discuss her life born in Lloydminster, growing up in Ontario, her family history of being United Empire Loyalists, converting a greyhound bus into an RV and at 1:56:05 we discuss the British Home Children.  SNP Presents: Legacy Media featuring: Kid Carson, Wayne Peters, Byron Christopher & Kris Sims March 18th in Edmonton Tickets here: https://www.showpass.com/snp/ Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Brian Gitt. This is Ed Latimore. This is Danielle Smith. This is Kristen Nagel. This is Aaron Gunn. This is Vance Crow. This is Quick Dick McDick and you are listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Friday. Hope everybody's week is cruising along. I'm still in vacation land. I got epically sick yesterday. So that was no fun. But feeling better today and hopefully the rest of the time away, I don't have that happen. again, a little case of food poisoning by the looks of it. So lovely, lovely, nothing like being wrapped around the toilet for 12 hours.

Anyways, we got March 18th, the next SMP presents coming up. March 18th in Eminton, Kidd Carson, Byron Christopher, Chris Sims, and Wayne Peters. For a lot of you, I just had a text come in talking about going back and listening to Byron Christopher because it's a long time ago. Episode 150, I promise you won't be disappointed. you go do that and you'll be blown away. I'm sure it's one of the favorites from early on in the podcast. Either way, Kid Carson, Byron Christopher, Chris Sims, Wayne Peters,

are going to be talking some legacy media, censorship, all that type of thing. Should be an interesting night that's going to be happening in Eminton. Once again, tickets in the show notes. Now let's get on to today's show sponsors. Rec tech power products for the past 20 years. They've committed to excellence in the power sports. They got a full lineup anywhere from Canem Skidu, C-Doo, Spider, Mercury, Evanrude, Mahindra, Roxer, you know, speaking of C-Doo, I was over there last week that Ryan and Al were giving me a tour of the,

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I was trying to explain it to her that it's pretty unique. You know, when you step on to all the different pontoon boats, this guy is a slow sport moving on water kind of guy. Don't put me on a giant speedboat. It's not my cup of tea. But a pontoon boat, I got lots of time for that. This one you walk on and it's like, this is really unique. and that's the best way I can explain it

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visit McGowan CPA.ca.C.A.Gartner management is the Lloydminster-based companies specializing in all types of rental properties to help me your needs, whether you're looking for a small office, or you got something a little bigger in mind. Give way to call 780-808-5025. Now let's get on that tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years. They've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm commercial or oil field locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock, Petroleum.com. Born in 1931, she's a mother, wife, community pillar, an amateur historian. I'm talking about Hazel Perrier.

So buckle up. Here we go. I'm sitting with Hazel Perrier. Perrier? And it is, John, this was... It is February 3rd, 2023. So first off, Hazel, thanks for, I don't know, inviting me, hassling me, making sure I come to do this. This is the first time I've ever been to Rocky Mountain House.

Well, there's always the first for everything. There certainly is. It's actually, you've got a beautiful spot. The view here is fantastic. Yes, it certainly is. Now, the way I start these, especially with, you've seen a lot. You've seen a lot more than I have. So I want to go back as far as you can.

Born in 31. Right. I don't know if you remember the dirty 30s. I don't know if you remember the 40s. But you kind of get the job. to this and we'll just see where it goes from there. Right. Well, I was born in 31 in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan. And we ended up in a small town in Alberta before we moved to Ontario in 1937.

And yes, I do recall the dirty 30s. And as much as children, we would go out with the cat and we would try to get snarrow. gophers because they would pay you a sent a tail for every tail that you got. And so that way we would put them in a match box and save them and then turn them in to get the money. That was our spending money. So that part I do remember quite well. And also it was so dry on the prairies, the only kindling and stuff we had for the fire was the dried up. cow patties and I remember collecting those in our little wagon and my mother cooking dinner for us because she had these, they called them buffalo chips and that was what we had to make the fire

for our supper. So I do recall that and I was only not six then. So that was something, one of the things I do remember from the prairies and how dry it was. When you talk about Gopher Tales with your one cent earning, what was a good day? How many gophers could you capture in a day? Oh, I can't remember exactly how many, but I know it was always a big deal to add to the box. So we would get a few every day, and I had an older brother and a younger brother,

so they were always quite willing to help out too. And what did you, with all your sense you make, how many or not how many what did you go by like what was the big trip to the store what were you looking to get with with your scent a tail i may i say that is yeah that is something well i don't remember ever going to a store what do you mean yeah i never did we never had any stores i don't remember going to a store so what did you do with your sense i don't know i don't know but i know that that's what it was for that was we got this one cent a tail i don't maybe They might have

into the groceries. I don't have any idea. I don't remember ever going to a store. Hmm. That's an interesting thought. I had a man who grew up in the 30s once tell me he doesn't remember money because there was just no need for it. Everybody traded and bartered with their neighbors and everything else.

And I found that very fascinating. When it comes to Lloyd Minster specifically, do you remember anything about the town back then? No. I don't remember anything about it. What took you out east? Why did your parents move you into Ontario? Well, the reason that we went to Ontario was because my dad was born in Ontario.

And his family were United Empire Loyalists. And the father, he was the second family. His dad was married twice. his wife died giving birth to the 10th child, and then he had a young girl come to care for the children, and he ended up marrying her, and they had 10 more children. So my dad was born in 1900, and then they came out to Alberta and left part of the family back in Ontario at a little place called Asia,

on and some of them stayed on the farm and kept the farm going and they came out west and homesteaded and and like I say raised 10 more children and then they ended up going back to Ontario but the family that was raised out here stayed out here so that was why it ended up but that they had two places one in Alberta and one in Ontario when you say he was a British loyalist. What do you mean? Well, they came into the United States and then after the

revolution they moved, they were given land along the St. Lawrence River and they settled in Ontario and there was yeah, and they got land there and then eventually they moved sort of down the

St. Lawrence and ended up at a small place called Avon Ontario. So that's how that family ended up there. So I have just got my status as a descendant of a United Empire Loyalists. So I can use the letters U.E after my name now. So this is part of... Forgive me, because I still, I'm going to ask it again, what does that mean?

And like I get that, I don't know. I'm like an Empire Loyalist. United Empire Loyalists, and they fought against the U.S. Yes. With the Kings Rangers in the United States. And then after the war, they were given land in Canada. For fighting the U.S.? Yes.

Ooh. Did you ever talk to him about that? Like, what was the household like when they, they talked about history because I mean obviously they didn't win well this true and then but they didn't really talk too much about it except that um they were actually Dutch descent and I remember well my two daughters are adopted and I remember when I was filling out the adoption papers I asked my uncle you know what nationality where we and he set me straight that they were, that they actually spoke Dutch because they were from a French settlement in Holland originally.

That's where the family came from. But since I've been doing a little research, the original, and the name has changed over the years, the original person that I relate back to was actually from Switzerland. So it's kind of a, my dad said it was a League of Nations. They were a little bit of everything and not much of anything. So that's sort of the way it turned out. You know, when I've looked at Canadian history, one of the things that I, you know, you think about, but you don't really think about it.

And I can't say that it gets taught in school is how, well, the British loyalists would have fought the United States. That is going to blow my brain for a little while. And I'm sorry to stick on it, because I'm going to try and, pull out of you any other things you have on that because to me that is fascinating um i mean we're so far removed from it now you don't you know like it's hard for me to even understand right because it was back in the 1700s that's right and and even for me i'm finding it difficult as a matter of fact i have three books over there sitting right there that i got from the library because i wanted to read upon it myself because I don't quite understand it all either. I mean, I was either born too late

or whatever, but it's just kind of one of those things we, I don't remember learning much about it in school. So it's kind of almost new to me. It's almost like they swept it under the rug, Hazel, you know, and nobody talks about it. When you move to Ontario, do you remember you're, you know, you talked about west snaring gophers and different things of, of that, you know, the, what did you call them, Buffalo? Buffalo chips. Buffalo chips. That's a new one for me as well.

You know, I've learned a lot of great words in terms from people from, well, your generation that are just fantastic. When you move out to Ontario, what year is that? 1937. And we had a Dodge touring car, they were called. And it didn't have glass windows. in it. They were kind of a, well, you could kind of see through them, but they were eyes and glass curtains, is that what they called them? And anyway, it was, had like a soft top, you know, and I remember my mother and dad took their bed with them, and I often question

that, why would they have taken a bed all the way to Ontario? But, yeah, and there were five children in this this vehicle and and the tires we didn't they didn't have air them they were just like a hard tire so they were not a very comfortable ride but i can't imagine how my parents survived with five children in that vehicle all the way to ontario that that's what that would be that'd be a journey it was you know i i just finished driving well i drove it a year ago uh across the country and i used to play hockey out in northern um ontario and it's a drive in today's standard especially with our weather and everything else we have. Do you remember the road trip at all?

Yes, I do. And what sticks out to you? Well, it sticks out to me that we've, remember we, my mother would make sandwiches in the vehicle and we'd maybe stop someplace if there was a lake or something where we could get out and stretch our legs and maybe, you know, take our shoes off and get into the water a little bit. I remember that was a fun thing to do if we got to stop,

but it was pretty boring, you know, for, I think it was six days to travel from Alberta to Ontario. So I can't imagine how my mother and dad survived having five fighting kids in a vehicle for six days. But it must have been an awfully big challenge, I think, anyway. I would think so. We did a road trip this past summer with three children under six, and that was interesting in itself in today's standards. And yet, as a parent, I look back on it rather fondly. Like it was probably the best part of the trip being cooped up with your family

and all the shenanigans that happen in that thing. I mean, I can't speak to hard rubber tires in six days of whatever. Whatever. I mean, when you get to Ontario in the late 30s and certainly into the war years, What's, you know, I keep using the words, what sticks out, but you know, like for, for, you know, we're, what is it now? We're 80 years past then over that. Right.

You know, I'm trying to warp back in, in time, if you will, and try and kind of see what would Ontario was like and walk me through, you know, if you can, the Warriors and everything else. because, I mean, certainly in history, those six years are talked about and commemorated and everything else like they happened yesterday. And, I mean, it's a long time ago. There's very few people that can shed any light on it, even from a small town perspective in Canada. Right. Well, I remember, you know, when we went there, my grandparents had a really big house, a very big house, a brink. house and and it was like three floors I believe and and it just seemed it was such a big building and and I remember in the house they had a dumb waiter that went between the floors so if you wanted

to send something to the third floor whatever you're talking one of those uh the things in the wall where you pull it up and down right a dumb waiter yeah okay yeah and of course that was that was also their storage kind of thing, the refrigerator, because it went down into the basement, which was cool. And so things went into the dumb waiter, and that was kind of the refrigerator. I remember that quite well, and that was kind of a, and the other thing I remember a lot, and I had my grandfather's old apple peeler, and I remember my mother used to sit on, they would take two cream cans, and they would put a board between them and my, and my, grandfather would sit at one end and he would peel the apples and my mother would sit at the other end

and she would core them and slice them and my grandmother would be in the kitchen and she made the pies and she'd make up they'd make up all these pies and they'd go in that dumb waiter to stay cool and and that was the big baking for the week was all those apple pies they used to make so and that I quite well remember that. Do you remember where they got the apples? for us? Yeah, then they had their own orchard. So where you went, your grandparents had an orchard? Right. They had, yeah, they, you know, it was a farm, it was a hundred-acre farm, and they had their own orchard. They also had made their own maple syrup every year, and they used to boil it down, and they had the sugar shack, and it was out in the bush, and all the syrup that

they gathered, they would take boilers, you know, the old-fashioned boiler and boil it in the, and down to make it thick, you know, enough for maple syrup. And I remember that quite well, you know. And that was called the sugar shack? The sugar shack. Do, uh, what a, what a name. Um, was that something as a kid you could sneak into and dip the old finger in or is that proud of we tried.

You tried? Yeah. But it was always pretty hot in there, so you kind of avoided it if you could. But you always got to try it and taste it and everything. You know, my grandmother was kind of a softie. She would let us kids do anything. So she was pretty good at that. Are you still a fan of maple syrup to the day?

Oh, yes. For sure. You know, you think of all the different syrups that have come out, you know, that aren't really, well, I mean, they aren't Canadian maple syrup, right? Like there's a whole, well, I mean, you go to the supermarket, you can just take a look and there's 80 different ones. You've always stayed true to a maple syrup? Well, I try to, but sometimes it's a cost-efficient thing too and defined it.

Sticking with the orchard, is that how they made money then? they sold fruit and maple syrup and things like that, or did they have other things on the farm? No, they didn't sell anything like that. No, well, they had 10 children to raise, you know. I mean, even when I got there, there was still family at home. There were still three boys, I think, still at home yet.

So, you know, it was a big family. So they had to have an orchard to feed the army. Well, that's right. Exactly. They tried to be self-sufficient, so they, they, had their own pigs and their own cows and they farmed and you know it was uh yeah they tried to be self-sufficient that's uh that has to be an interest you know over the course of your life uh so many people have went from self-sufficient to um well the complete opposite i don't you know like where

you rely on what's in the store it's uh opened up a a world of you know getting fruit at all times of the year and different things like that that once upon a time, you know, like I remember as a kid and believe me, I'm not that old, but grandma used to have everything canned, absolutely everything can. Oh yes, canning was a big thing. You know, I remember at home, when I was growing up, it was nothing to have 100 jars of fruit canned in the fall. So, I mean, that's what we ate in the winter. You know, we didn't get the fresh fruit. But I remember. the at the ranch or pardon me at the farm that my grandparents had there were certain different kinds of apples and i remember this one was always special around christmas and it was called a snow apple it was

very white and but you weren't allowed to even touch one of those apples until it was near christmas because that was saved just for that purpose and uh a white apple was white and the in the the meat of the apple was very white, and it was called a snow apple. It was fairly small. It wasn't a big apple, but that was the one that was the big treat around Christmas time. So that was. And did they grow them, or they? Oh, yeah, they grew them. They had their own orchard there. So they, they would grow a snow apple? Yeah. And how long would they, like, once again? Well, it was just a different kind of apple. You know, you have Macintosh and you have whatever, but. This one was called the snow apple, and I remember it quite vividly.

But I guess my confusion is, I'll try and explain this, where you were living, did you have snow at Christmas time? Oh, yes. So how long did a snow apple last for, that it could just sit there? Well, no, they were picked and put in down in the basement with the dumb waiter, you know. Ladies, you tell me, if you get apples from the store today, do they last that long? Oh, yes. They're put into cold storage. Your apples that you buy in the store.

Will they last that long? Oh, yeah. Oh, Hazel. Now you're going to make me try some things, because I'm like, to me, that seems like something from the old days where if you stuck it in cold storage, which I mean, everybody did. the food seems to have lasted longer. That's all I'm just picking up. Because nowadays you have you put anything in the fridge for like three days and you don't eat it. It's got mold on it.

Like it's crazy. Yeah, but those apples don't forget have been in storage that you're buying in the store. Oh yeah, here we go. Snow apple, also known as Femuse, famous, femur, is experiencing a burst of popularity. The Canadian Airloom Apple is. one of the apples, one of the parents of the popular Macintosh apple growing for its cold, heartiness, red skin, and snow white flesh. It has been cultivated since 1824. There you go. I did not know that. Thank you for that. Well, there you go. It's nice to have a couple daughters in the room

that can do a little bit of legwork for us here. There you go. They have a purpose. What, you know, was a kid growing up on, on a, you grew up on the orchard then, yes? Well, it wasn't an orchard. It was just a farm, but they had their orchard section on the farm. What were the other sections of the farm? Well, there was the garden, you know, and then there was where they grew the grain and so on, but every farm, they were very self-sufficient. And don't forget, the weather's different there than it is here, you know, you get there. You don't have eight months of minus 40 and trying to blow you off the road? That's exactly right.

They get lots of snow, and they did get lots of snow back then. But it wasn't near as cold. It was a damper cold, though, than what we get here. I don't know if I asked. What part of Ontario, what would have been the nearest town or city? Oh, London. Oh, London. Okay.

Yeah, that would have been the closest, actually. There were other bigger towns, but nothing as big as London. That was as close as. you know like if you would go to London that was a big day you know so I remember going and seeing the Queen when they went through where I was quite young but and that was a big deal to go to London so yeah that so that's where I but we didn't live there too long and we moved to another smaller a little town and my dad was a carpenter actually and and so we moved around a bit and then we ended up living in London so that's basically was where I grew up was in the London area

did you like the city or did you miss the farm well we only lived in the city for a short time and then we moved to an acreage and basically we were I guess today you'd call them hobby farmers or whatever it just had an acreage but we always had our own milk and and our own pigs and chickens and ducks and, you know, whatever. It was like just an acreage, you know, it wasn't a farm. We didn't have, like, do any farming per se. We just had, it was just mainly to have pasture for the cows. But we always had our own milk and all with butter and so on.

And during the war, my mother used to sell the butter because people never got enough with their rations. So that was quite lucrative for her during the war, was to sell butter and eggs and so on. So that was kind of a little income for her. Can you speak about rations? I've heard different things out west here. Different people have talked to me about rationing of gas

and even tires and different things like that that we would take for granted today for sure. Certainly we haven't had a war quite like World War II, and hopefully never again, but you never know where the world goes. But rationing seems like it was commonplace all across Canada, probably all across the world, to be honest. But what do you remember about rationing?

You mentioned the butter. Is there anything else that comes to mind? Well, yes. What happened? My mother, like sugar was rationed, for example. and with a big family we always did a lot of canning, so sugar was something my mother was always wanting. So they didn't drink, but so liquor was rationed as well. So they would trade their coupons with people who did drink, and they would give them the sugar coupons so that she would get,

so she would do her little bartering thing with her butter and so on. and trade it off for sugar coupons and things that she needed that she didn't have enough of. And that way, they didn't, like I say, they didn't drink, so they didn't use their liquor coupons. So they would trade them. But that took place a lot with families, too, you know. As a matter of fact, I have some of the coupons that people use during the rationing. time. So, yeah. Anyway, it was that's how they survived. It's just wild to think about trading your liquor coupons, you know, for sugar. Like, I mean, it's hard to fathom that, you know,

I come from Lloyd Minster. I mean, we got more liquor stores in that town than, I don't know, than anything else, you know. And now with marijuana being, There's those everywhere as well. It just, it's crazy to think they'd give, it would get to the point where rationing alcohol became a thing or rationing anything became a thing. But, I mean, everybody probably had to pull in the same direction for the war effort and, you know, and do their part, I guess. Yeah, well, that's exactly the way it was then.

You know, it's certainly not like that today, but it was then. Were those scary times? I guess it was because we, you know, it's. had family in the war, you know, like I had an uncle that was overseas and a couple of uncles, actually, that were, you know, that were very close. And my, my, that's on my mother's side, but on my dad's side, there were actually two of his younger brothers and one of his nephews, and they were all on the same ship, all three of them, which would be unheard of. of in today's world, they would never put two brothers on the same ship, you know, let

alone a cousin along with them, you know, our nephew, I guess he would have been to them. But he was their nephew, but they were the younger ones of the family, so they were the same age. So that wouldn't be heard of today. No, certainly not. when you look back on those years, I've heard different stories of, like, updates coming via the radio or mail, different letters in that type of thing, correspondence. The rationing is certainly in there. Is there the things that, you know, whether it's the radio or whether it's different things like that that really popped to mind, that that's how you stayed, you know, because you got family. over there. Are you guys, you know, is it every day you're paying attention or was it every Sunday? Is there any regularity to keep it up to date on what's actually happening? Was it that big of a deal?

Well, it was. You listened to the news. If you went to a movie, to the theater, they always had the news reel on first. And you'd get all the latest news on the war would be on a news reel before you watch the movie that you went to see. So that was very common and very, and people listened to the radio to get the latest news on the war, and that was just standard, you know, that you wanted to keep up with what was going on, you know.

So when you go to the movie theater and watch a movie, the first thing that came on instead of, you know, today we have previews or everything's, you know, you have movie trailer, movie trailer, movie trailer, probably a commercial in there about some Dodge truck, and then a movie trailer and then the movie. Back then it was news. The news reel, yeah.

It would be the latest news from the war. And it would be all like a documentary that came on before the movie. That was the way it was. But you kept up with the news that way, you know? So that's if you went to a movie. But I remember my girlfriend, her and I always went to

a movie on Saturday. Her parents were from England, actually, and he drove taxi in London, and so he would always drop us off at the movie, and then he'd pick us up after because he had the taxi in town, you see, so we would go to the movie, but you always got the newsreel first. I'm curious. What movie sticks out to you then, if you were a movie gore every Saturday, through the Warriors, is there a movie that you're just like, and it doesn't even have to be from that far back if you don't want Hazel, is there a movie that sticks out? You're like, that was fantastic.

Oh, I don't really, I can't think of anything in particular. Maybe after the war, there might have been something, but I just sort of can't remember any particular one. No. That's interesting to me. You know, movies are such a, I mean, they were big back then, too. But nowadays, you know, the amount of millions of dollars that go into, you know, I don't know.

It doesn't matter the movie. I don't know why Avatar and Titanic and things like that come to mind. But the amount of money they spent recreating these things and the experience of going to a movie theater it is, or a movie theater these days is, I got memories locked in my brain that, you know, I'm like, I remember exactly where I was at when I watched that movie. Oh, right. And I'm just curious, you know, as a moviegoer who went every Saturday, it's funny that you can recall every detail, but, you know, whether it's the movies or, you know, or maybe it was just the time around the movie theater. No, I don't recall that going to the movie so much, but I know I also on a Saturday I had an aunt in town and I used to go and do her dusting and go to the store and get her green. groceries that she needed, or she always ordered stuff from the bakery because she was quite crippled up, and she didn't do her own baking, but she ordered it from the bakery, and I would

go there and pick everything up for her. And I got 25 cents a week for helping her on Saturdays. That was my big day. Sure beats Gopher Tales. You got that right. yeah so anyway that was that was kind of well i partly what i did on saturdays and then we would go to a movie as well so that was kind of the things that that i remember from my younger years how about school um you know like obviously school has changed immensely uh you know out at west here they you know all the old timers talk of the one-room schoolhouse and doing crazy things like cabin, you know, whether it was skiing or whether, you know, cross-country skiing or riding

horse or et cetera, the snow drifts and everything like that. How about school out east for you? Well, I started school in Avon and I was actually, it was kind of a crazy thing because I turned six the end of November, but I didn't start school until Easter, until the Easter Hall right after the Easter holidays. And that was a strange time to start in grade one. But then we moved. So I ended up in another little town called Rochoyle, and I was in grade three. So I went from grade one to grade three.

And then, and I was the only one in grade three. So I took. Why did they skip you over grade two? they kind of because of that long periods you know so they looked at you they looked at your age and we started then in september after that so basically i had grade one and grade two in that year plus then i was autumn then i went into grade three and so then i was the only student in grade three in the school i was in so i took my grade three with the grade fours. So by the time I finished grade four, I was in grade five.

School was a little different than that these days, isn't it? Yeah, but it's not a good thing. Because when I went into high school, I was much younger than everybody else in my class. I was a year younger than everybody. And that was the deterrent, really. I was always too young. You can't do this or do that because you're too young to go to a dance or you're too young to do this or that. So that was all, and I said, boy, my kids are never going to do that. I never, ever skip a year because it catches up to you in the end. Did you finish grade 12?

No. What grade did you go to? I went to grade 11, but I had to quit because my mother was pregnant and was bedridden and I had to stay home. So I never did get past, I never did finish my grade 11. That's, once again, you think of a culture change from your time

to today's day and age with people graduating and everything else. And I would guess that you were like the same group of ladies that came through that time. They talk about three occupations that stick out secretary. nurse school teacher. Do you share that or was there more?

I had taken the commercial course. So I actually started working at Webster Air. But I was in accounting in the payroll department. So I didn't. And then from then I shared the payroll department with the receptionist and I was a switchboard operator. And we had switchboards back then where you plugged the old lines in and so on. So I did have some of my typing.

So then from there I went to Canadian General Electric, and again, I was the switchboard operator, but I did do typing as well. And then gradually I ended up being secretary. to the manager at Canadian General Electric. And so that was where I kind of got my secretarial experiences, but it wasn't because I was formally trained to do it. It was just one of those things you gradually work into, I guess.

And then from there I ended up living in Toronto, close to Toronto, and I actually worked for Canadian General Electric in downtown. downtown Toronto when I was in the advertising department there. Then I moved west. You've been to a lot of different places. Your daughters were not lying. You bounced around a lot. Why were you not, why didn't you guys, I mean,

why didn't you just stay in one place? You've mentioned now I think four different spots at least, if not more than that. What made you move around so much? You mentioned your father was a carpenter. Right. Was it work or was there more to it? Well, kind of more to it, I guess.

I ended up, the reason that I ended up in Toronto was because, in the meantime, I, you know, when I was working at Webster Air, while I was there, my brother was, I had an older brother, and he was killed in an accident. and he was working at the same place I was, and that sort of made me want to change, and I, because, you know, he worked at the same place I did, so this is why I ended up going to Canadian General Electric. But then I got married, and my husband was working on Pipeline,

so we ended up living just out of Toronto at Mississippi. Saga, it's called today. It was called Cooksville then. And I used to take the train in from there into downtown Toronto. And I worked in the advertising and sales promotion there. So, but, and then then we moved west. So that's how I ended up with moving around a bit in Ontario. And then, of course, moved west. And I've done a lot of moving around since then. You mentioned taking the train in from Cooksville. Right. Well, Port.

Port. I can't remember the name. Anyway, it was close there. I've interviewed different people from actually Lloyd Minster talking about taking the train to Eminton and back and different things like that. Right. And how important the train was once upon a time. Right. What do you remember about taking the train into downtown?

Toronto. I mean, I assume it's similar to today, but at the same time, it would have been a little bit different. Yeah, well, you took the train and then all the trains went to the Union Station, and then from the Union Station you walked to wherever you worked. And as it happened, I was fairly close to the station because I worked on King Street, and that's right downtown. So it wasn't too bad to do that. And then I kind of got into a carpool, and there were people from Streetsville and whatever. There was three other fellows that drove in, and so we carpooled, and I went with them, but most of the time I took the train. Well, walk me through the train. Did you walk to the train from your house?

No, I would have to drive to the train and leave my vehicle there, just like you would do today. Okay. Or my husband who wasn't working would drive me to the train and put me on the train and I'd go to work, you know. How long would you ride the train for? Oh, I can't remember how long it took. About an hour, I suppose. And then when you say you were close to the train station, how far will walk are we talking? Because I feel like your definition of close and my definition of close might be two different things.

Oh, it was a fair little walk. But anyway, usually somebody got on. Fair little walk like a block, fair little walk like 10 blocks. 10 blocks maybe, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always am curious because, you know, it's funny.

The other thing that changes over time is our definitions of thing. You know, you think to drive to Ontario today, me and you left today, Hazel. We could be to Ontario today, roughly. I mean, certainly we'd have to get up and leave early, but it wouldn't be that out of the question. With the way modern transport is, you know, even driving, you can cruise along the divide, even in my time, they've divided it pretty much all the way to the Ontario border. It's, you know, it's pretty quick. And so our definitions of distance and time and things like that, it's interesting to watch how your lifetime talks about things differently and I would. Because anyone today, here sitting in Rocky Mountain House, if they had to walk 10 blocks, wouldn't think that was that close.

No. They'd probably complain about it. And I'm going more on myself than anyone else. It's just different. And it's very interesting to hear anyways. Yeah, well, I guess it was partly because that's what you did. You know, I don't know. We didn't think about it.

Not that I enjoyed the walk. Don't kid. I'm not kidding. I mean, that, you didn't ask me if I enjoyed it. Did you enjoy it? No. I didn't. However, it was.

But hurry up and, you know, hurry up and go because it's what you've got to do. How long were your work days then? Was it a standard nine to five? Yeah. Nine? Eight. Yeah. That must be the new coming out of me too.

Eight to five. Yeah. Eight to five. And that means, I'm just doing simple math. You were on the train at seven and probably a half an hour walk or whatever it is. Well, yeah, 20 minutes, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah.

You can walk faster me now too. You had to dangle to get to work on time. You mentioned, I didn't ask off the hop, how many siblings did you have? I had six. There were seven of us. The seventh one, the seventh one, she was an afterthought.

I was 17 when she was born. Okay. And that's why my mother was bedridden and why I had to quit school and stay home was because... How many years did you stay home while your mom was veteran or just for your final year of school? Just as... Well, I quit school because she...

Well, the year was nearly over anyway kind of thing. She was born in March, but it was... When was she born in May? Anyway, May. I think the school year was just ending, It wasn't, you know, and then I didn't go back. I got a job and that was on to working the rest of my life, you know, so. Were you the, you were.

I was the oldest girl. I had a brother older than me, a brother younger than me, and then there were the four girls after. So were you, being the girl where you expected to be home then and not the boys? Right. Was that frustrating? Yeah. Yeah, and of course, you know, it's a lot of work. I mean, you know, having to take over as the mother, the homemaker, you know,

because she couldn't do anything, you know, so, you know, how it is, but you do what you've got to do, I guess. After you get through the year of being at home with your youngest assembly, right. Do you just jump into work? Do you, you know, before we started, I heard different places that you traveled, everything like, do you go, I'm going to go travel the world? Do you get right into work? You're like, I'm going to save money. I'm going to earn more than 25 cents on a grocery run. Like, do you, do you have some goals in mind of what you want to do? And what happens, you know, in your, I assume, late teens into your early 20s, what happens in that time frame? Well, I ended up just working and actually I worked at, like I said, I worked a Canadian General Electric and I, one of my friends that I worked with, she was from Yorkton, Saskatchewan. So she wanted to go home and see her family one summer.

And so we decided that we were going to fly out to Yorkton, Saskatchewa. So that... What year would have been? Oh, 1952. I think of 1952. Okay. I think it was. And, yeah, that was a big deal for us to take a plane and fly out to Saskatchewan.

In those days, not too many people did that. And the two of us, we plotted and planned this whole thing. And as it turned out, actually, I was dating then, and so my boyfriend and my brother, they ended up driving out and picked us up and brought us home. So we flew only one way, and then they came. But we had friends in Saskatchewan that we visited at the same time, so it kind of made a round trip, you know, and then.

And anyway, and then we weren't married until 53. Let's talk about the plane for a second. You know, if you rewind the clock to the 50s, I would assume there was smoking on the plane. Oh, I don't know. They used to have ashtrays. Yes, I'm sure. There was smoking. I haven't thought about that because I didn't smoke, you know.

So is there anything that sticks? Can you remember the plane right? Yeah, I do. I think it was a prop plane, though. You know, it wasn't like a jet that we would have today, that's for sure. And remember, yeah, we had a little tour of the plane, you know, I can imagine how big it was compared to our jets today. But, yeah, but it was fun.

It was a fun thing to do because it was something I never thought I'd ever do, you know, of course then, you know. Is it crazy thing how much we fly now? I know. And what the luxury of flying today compared to then, you know, it was amazing. You know, over the course of your life, and I don't know, I didn't ask early on in different spots if you had electricity and running water and phones. Yeah, we had running water. You went out to the pump and you pumped it into a pail and you carried it in and you carried it out, too.

Things like that, you know, we just take for granted now, right? You want water? you flick the tap on and away you go. You want hot water, you flick the tap on and away you go. Which, you know, I don't even want to, you know, we can certainly get into, you know, like bathing and, you know, the rise of taking a shower now is just, you know, everybody hops in and rinses off and away they go and everything else. Well, we had the tub, one of the laundry tubs and you heated the water and a boiler on the stove

and you, the youngest got in first, and you just kept adding some hot water to it. And all four of us girls all had a bath in the same bath water, but we added some fresh in between. Was there a specific night of the week you bathed? Was there a bath night or did you bath every night? Usually it was on the weekend that we'd bath, and that was usually on a Saturday or Friday or whatever.

Do you think it's crazy we bathed so much and shower and everything in now? No. Or are you happy that that's the way it is? I'm quite happy that we can shower. I don't like bathing in the same bath water. No, thank you, please. Especially when the youngest one got in first.

Anyway. Do you remember that being like, I don't want to get in, but I got to get clean? Like, is that what it was like? Well, sort of, yeah. But it was better than the alternative. A sponge bath or whatever. When you finally move,

moved out on your own. You got your own place, you're married. Do you remember having the first opportunity to get in bath water? Like, oh, I get to have my own bath. Do you remember that? Well, yeah, it was sort of nice to have your own bathroom and your own bath shower and, you know, and be able to get in the tub by yourself and not have to get into water that four other people had bathed in. I know. It sounds crazy, but It's just different worlds. Yes. You know, we're talking about 91, almost 92 years ago.

Well, we didn't have the running water. We had electricity, but we did not have running water. Like I say, we ran out and got it and ran out to dump it out again, because what you brought in, you had to carry back out. Do you, you know, you lived in, it's different than the prairies. A lot of people on the prairies talk about remembering the cold, you know, like we sit in, you know, these buildings today and, you know, if it gets cold outside, you pump the heat in and everything else. And certainly there's some different things going

on in the world today that are trying to change that. But back in your day, do you remember the cold, like seeping in through the walls and having a fire going and things like that? Oh, yes. I remember frost on the walls in our bedroom. So you can imagine what the house was like. and I remember we had a heater in the front room and you grabbed your clothes and you went and tried to get dressed behind the heater and it was a lot of secretive dressing, you know, what I mean? To get off your pajamas and get your clothes on without everybody seeing you,

but at least it was hot, it was warm there, you know, and the rest of the house was quite cold and especially, well, the bedroom and there were four girls, so the four girls slept in one room. and like I say, it was kind of an add-on to the house, so it wasn't, what was insulation? You know, like I say, there was frost on the walls. So it was not the warmest place to be, but then that's why I guess we slept together. We kept one another warm, you know.

Was it in a big bed or was there multiple, was it like bunk beds? No, no, it was a double bed, you know, like that. A double bed with four in it? No, there were two beds in the room. beds in there. Yeah. So two and two. Yeah. So there was two and two. Who is your bedmate? My youngest, the baby, the youngest sister, she always slept with me and the other two girls that were in the middle. They slept together. And my brothers, they slept together in a bedroom. And my mother and dad in the other bedroom. So there were three bedrooms. So that's how we managed. Do you think,

you know, my grandmother used to say, you ruddy fools, when she'd see, you know, five, kids have five rooms or you know the size of houses today and everything else when you came through a time where you pretty much lived with one another you had no choice in the matter there was six yeah you dealt with it do you ever think or are you quite happy that people have their own space oh I'm I think it's nice to have your own space but I mean you live with what it was and that's the way it was there was no changing it how about chores. Oh, there was lots of those, you know. But we actually, it was, we had it figured out pretty good. My brothers did the outside chores, my two brothers, and we four girls, we looked after

kind of the inside stuff. And like, say, every night, there was always lots of dishes to wash, and there were lunches to make for the next day. So my dad took a lunch, and then my brothers, and I, We girls, and so two of us did the lunches, two did the dishes, but we were singers, so we used to always sing. And that was... Well, you got a mic in front of you now, Hazel. I don't sing anymore. You don't sing anymore? No, I lost my singing voice when I had my last surgery.

Was that a... I assume that was a tough day. It was, yeah. Yeah, anyway, it is... Well, I'm sorry, I just go singing. is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Music is a beautiful thing. Well, we girls used to sing harmony,

and we used to sing at church stuff in one thing, another. So it was kind of our... Pardon? The boys that came to the window. Yeah. Well, we're getting down to some things. I like it.

Well, my brother that was killed, he was killed on his motorcycle, but he would belong to a group of motorcycle the motorcycle gang, you know, and they were a good bunch of kids, you know, they all just had bikes and, you know, they weren't bad kids. They were good, you know, bad people. They were, they had bikes and they rode and his friends did. And I remember one night, they came and knocked down the door and got my dad out of bed, but they said they wanted, they wanted, they, came to get us girls to come and sing for them. And they were down the road away as on,

and they kind of gathered in a group, and so they wanted us to sing. So we got out of bed, went down and sang for them. Never forget it. I think about it after, and I think it wasn't that stupid, but it was fun, you know. What type of music were he singing? Oh, we like country music, you know. So my dad, played the harmonica and and ever since we were little he always played the harmonica and we used to dance for him and everything it was when we were really little and we kind of thought they liked the country music and so anyway what you know i asked about a movie earlier how about music was there was there an artist or a band that um that uh we kind of went along with what you know as they

they kind of But none stick out to you Hazel Oh well I just you kind of caught me off guard That probably could think of Of Anyway the song That they wanted us to sing that

Particularly that night was Tennessee Waltz And I don't know if you remember that song or not No but I'm going to certainly look it up after I'm on the road I'm sure it's sitting there somewhere Oh I just think there's a few versions of it Yeah, because I was waltzing with my darling to the Tennessee waltz, you know. I don't know if you've ever heard it, but. Well, the lovely thing about the world we live in today is...

I've gone, always Google it. Well, I got this thing called Spotify, and I'm like... Oh, yeah, okay. Tennessee. Let's see if Sean can find it here. Patty Page? Oh, Elvis Presley sang it as well. Yeah, it was a lot of our...

us. Well, here's your list. That's the one. That's the one? Yeah. This is what you're saying? Yeah. Well, that's pretty cool.

I tell you what, wouldn't that be something if you could have that recording from back when you're a young kid? Yeah, right. You know, I got three little ones and my daughter is in musical theater. And so, like, with the phone and everything, like, we can, like, you know, pretty much record everything they do. Right. Which is, on one hand, is a bit much.

And on the other hand, is like, you know, when you're 20 years older, it's pretty cool that you can actually see the progression through them and see them, you know, what they interact with. I mean, even from a hockey guy, watching my kid go from intro into his second year of U7, like just seeing his progression. And actually having video of it is quite wild. Yeah, and that's great. But, you know, when Curtis was little, for example, and he was playing hockey. and I had that movie camera and I got it on, you know, on the tape. But what good is it? We can't even watch it today because we don't have the equipment to watch it.

But you still have the tape? Yeah. I guarantee you could give it to an audiovisual guy and they could put it on to like a hard drive or something. Right. They have the technology to transfer across to the digital world these days. Yeah, and I remember I came out to your place on Christmas morning so that we could, and I taped, you know, filmed it, you know, and there they sit. And that's something that is lost because we haven't been able to, we don't have the equipment to watch it anymore, you know. So, which is what we should do is have it made into a, you know, it would be kind of fun.

Well, can you imagine? Like, I mean, personally for me, listening, when I started down this road, I started working with the Lloydminster Archives. So I got to go around and interview a bunch of people anywhere from about 60 to, I think, 98 or 99 was the oldest one I got to. And then they gave me a whole bunch of ones they'd done before. And the first thing I did was I scanned, I don't wonder if I know anyone. And my grandfather, who'd passed 10 years before, was one of them. And to go and listen to that is like, not knowing him is there, is maybe one of the coolest experiences of had.

I mean, it's up there with one of the coolest experiences because it's so, it's almost so foreign because, A, I didn't expect it. And two, you've forgotten so much. And then to hear them talk about things in their own words, I mean, a video of somebody doing something from back when they were kids is quite an amazing thing. Right, you know, and yeah, they're still here. I still pack them around with me, but yeah, you know, it's true. You need to do something with them, you know.

And it was like the Christmas party we had out on Texada Island at the pipeline bunch. Oh, that was so much fun. And yet there it is. Can't watch it, you know, so. But anyway. You mentioned when you flew, your boyfriend came and picked you up. Who was your first husband? That was my first husband, yeah.

How did you guys mean? You aren't going to believe this one. My sisters were, I was working, and my sisters were going to a school called Medway. It was north of London, and so they had to take a school bus there. and it just so happened that he was the bus driver for their school bus. And they kept coming home and telling me about this bus driver, how much funny was they had the best bus driver you could ever meet. And he had them spoiled so badly.

He would drive them right up into our yard. Now, we lived on a main road, but there was, like we lived on this, it was called Kipps Lane, and it was just a, road that kind of went to our place and the driveway and then that the rest of the road hardly anybody ever used that so that we were the on the end kind of thing and so he would come up and turn around in the yard and drop them off right at the door and then they were spoiled rotten you know by this guy so I used to hear all this about this bus driver oh you should meet our bus driver and that's all I ever heard was you should meet our bus driver so anyway there was a

town near London where they had Saturday night dances, and everybody went to the dances at Dorchester. So we, I don't know who I went with, a whole bunch of us all went out together, and it didn't matter who you went with, just whoever was going kind of thing. And I got out there and, and my sisters are there, too. And it's like, oh, you aren't going to believe who's here. Our bus driver is here. You've got to meet him. well that was it.

I met him and that was it from there on. It was like, that was my boyfriend. So it was, I guess what you might say, love at first sight. Do you believe in love at first sight? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I guess it was. It was just, that was magic kind of thing. But my sisters had picked him out for me anyway, so what can I say, you know?

What was, you know, if you fast forward a little bit, what was your wedding day like, if there's things that you remember, and did you take a honeymoon immediately, or were you a no honeymoon person? We did take a short little break, have a honeymoon for a few days, and we went to Toronto, and what had happened to back up, and how this group of people kind of all went to the dances was. At London, Ontario, they built what is called the Fansha Dam. And I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

It's quite well known in that area, especially. And it was quite the thing when they built the dam. And that was just close to where home was. And so the people, the men that worked on the pipe, that Fanshaw Dam were a lot of young single men. So, of course, they kind of mixed in the neighborhood and found out about these dances. So they always went to the dances.

And what they did was one of the houses that was going to be underwater when the dam was built. They moved into this house, this group of guys, and they all lived there together kind of thing. So they'd go to the dances, and then you went back to their place after the dances and partied until the whole hours of the morning, you see. And that was kind of the party house,

and it was going to be underwater anyway, so who cared, you know, kind of thing. And that's sort of how this group all got together. And it's amazing how many of them, actually two or three of them married people, one of them married my girlfriend. and yeah, so it was kind of that time, you know, when they were there and they met and two or three of them got married actually. And yeah, so that's sort of how this all kind of got together, you know, that we were kind of a group that just kind of all traveled together.

We always went to the dances and did things together, you know. And it was good, safe fun, you know, sort of thing. Of course, a mother always has to put that. It was good, safe fun. Well, it was. It was. I mean, we were fortunate, you know, because I might not be like that today. I don't know, but maybe it is.

I'm teasing. That's what a mother would say. Yeah. I apologize because I think I caught this, but I want to make sure. In your first marriage, did you have children? Did you adopt? I don't know if I caught it. Adopted.

Adopted both. Right. No biologicals. No. Was there a reason for that? Yes, I had endometriosis. Andromitriosis. Andromitriosis.

Andromitriosis. What is that? Well, it's hard to explain. I guess I could just Google it, couldn't I? Well, it's actually, it's something to do with. women's problems and you end up with, I had sores, open sores kind of all through my body, it's something that just kind of gets out of whack. And as a result, you just couldn't concede. That's all there is to it. Now today they can treat that, but they couldn't then. So, so.

Was that a difficult time? Because I assume you wanted children. Right. Yeah. It certainly was. Yeah. And I've worked. was not well with it, you know, so that didn't help. What do you mean you weren't well? Like you mean you weren't physically well or your mental state is upset? Well, I wasn't physically well with it. It was, yeah, it was one of those things that you suffer through. So anyway, I got through it and had surgery and hit a hysterectomy.

So that was the end of children anyway. So that's what finally cured it. How about adoption? And now you can't say anything bad about the two ladies because they're sitting right here. Well, I tell you what, it was the best thing I ever did in my life. What, was it right away you decided to adopt or did you guys wait? It was 11 years before we adopted.

11 years? Yeah. Married 11 years before you adopted. Right. Okay. What is it about year 11 or year 10 where adoption comes into like, Or had you been working on it for seven years? Well, we talked about it, but the thing was that my husband was working on pipeline construction.

I never knew where you're going to be, for one thing. And then we ended up, how we ended up in the West was we were living in Cooksville, and I was working at GE, and there was a job to start out in the West. in the spring. Well, so we came out and bought a mobile home. I was fairly just a one-bedroom. And we bought a new truck and we headed west because this job was supposed to go. So we were going to be out here ready for it. Got out here, the job didn't go. So he had driven truck in his younger years and down to Florida and used to haul back fruit and stuff. And he was a mechanic, too.

And anyway, it ended up that he got a job with Midland Superior driving transport. Guess where? To Ontario. So he took a couple of trips, that was fine, and then came Christmas, and wouldn't you know, he had to go out, and they hauled the hanging beef from here to the west, and then they would bring back other things from the east. So anyway, it was Christmas time, and of course he had to go out, and he went, and got as far as Sudbury, or just out of Sudbury, and they were in a terrible accident, and There were three killed, I guess, in the car that hit them. And they went over an embankment, and actually the truck turned upside down, and they were pinned in at him and the other driver.

And he had his leg. It was sort of like there was the weight on it, and it kind of, there was for two. long at time anyway whatever happened he never could totally straighten his leg out again it was always kind of a 90 degree i think it was that they said finally in the end so that ended his career of driving truck but the company still kept him on and they gave him a course in um refrigeration for um you know doing the the refrigeration you know, the coolers and the trucks.

And so he kind of did that at the shop. And oh, he went through a real bad time and we had a separation for a while. And anyway, the whole thing all got funny, sorted out. And we ended up, you know, got things sorted out kind of thing. And that's when we decided that it was time we adopted and had children.

And, you know, so that's all. really how it all went. Yeah, so in the end, though, unfortunately, took a toll on his life and his best friend became a bottle and that ended our marriage finally, but the girls were teenagers by that time, and so we got through it,

and a couple years later, the couple that had actually supported us, you know, and were our references, when we adopted the children, they ended up, he was a pipeliner, and they ended up moving to New Zealand, and he ended up working on jobs out of the country, and their marriage ended.

And he came back to Canada and was back here about a year, I guess, when him and I got together, and we ended up getting married. So he ended up, well, he ended up, well, He was going back. He just came on a holiday, and he was offered a job when he got back here, so he stayed. So then this is how come I ended up with him, and then we were only married about eight and a half years,

I guess, when he died of cancer. But in the meantime, he always had his running shoes on, and if he wasn't working, we traveled. sold out so come I got to travel a lot. But he was on the pipeline job from Norman Wells down to Zamma Lake. And so when we got married, he said my first marriage ended because my wife wasn't with me. And so he told the company, I'm getting married, and if she can't come with me, I'm done. So I ended up going with him up to the Northwest Territories.

So I worked in the camps and moved trucks around and did whatever I could do. And so that's how come I ended up in the territories living for a couple of years. And then from there we went to Vancouver Island and did the pipeline job from the mainland over to the island. So we lived at a lot of different places out there too. But in the meantime, we converted a Greyhound bus that we lived in. You converted a Greyhound bus? Yes. What do you mean?

Like you took a Greyhound bus. Took an old Greyhound bus and made it into a motorhome. So buzzing down the road is this Greyhound bus, and if you went inside it was a motorhome. Right. And I could drive it too, so. Well, that's a first. Is it? Yeah, I don't know if I've ever heard of anyone doing that before.

Really? No. Oh, well, it was quite common actually when we did it. Oh, really? Yeah, it was. And then it was, that's how kind of started. And then, then of course, the motorhome people got in. They can do it, take a bus and convert it. We can start out with the shell of a bus. And that's how we have the big motorhome. You were trendsetters. Yes. Exactly. You know, I hate to dwell on tough times too much. But I know if my parents, Lord, Will and live a long time. At some point they ever interviewed, I would want to know about the tough times because tough

times create the people that they become. Right. You have lived through a lot of different things. Right. To go back to your first relationship, just for a few minutes. Right. When you talk about his partner becoming the bottle, after the accident, he could just never get over what had happened?

Well, that, and he was crippled. I mean, and he suffered, and I think it took its toll on him, you know, I really do. When you say he suffered like pain? Yeah. He never was really, he never really, you girls can attest to that. He really never did get over that accident. I mean, he was, it's like me with my neck. I have constant pain, but nobody ever asked me if I have pain.

Do you have pain? Yes. Hey, you haven't found anything with your neck. You haven't found anything that helps? No, it's one of those things I'm stuck with. Let's go to something happy, too. You mentioned best decision in your life is sitting right here in the room with us. When you go back to adopting,

leave me through those couple, I don't know, if it's days, I don't, just those are happy times. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Well, I remember that, well, this is the funny part. We were accepted, so we were waiting to find out when we were going to get a baby. And Christmas came, and we were still waiting. And so we went out to my aunt and uncle, were working, living on a ranch out in Pyrtis.

and so we had gone out there for Christmas dinner. And, oh, that day, I had the worst stomachache I think I've ever had in my life. And I remember coming home thinking, I don't, what did I eat or what? Why do I have this awful stomachache? Well, anyway, next thing I knew, we got a phone call saying they had a baby for us. And guess when she was born? Christmas Day. there she is

December the 25th and I had the pains I was like you gotta be kidding anyway yeah so February the 4th 40 years tomorrow

how many years tomorrow oh 60 60 that's why I keep you around 60 years 60 years tomorrow we got to bring her home

well tell me about it I assume those were happy days oh my gosh yeah she was the cutest little thing and then I was it three years later and November we brought home another little bundle

this one over there Colleen. So that was another happy day. And I remember the neighbor because they were all, they remember the little girls and Sherry? And we'd painted the crib and it was downstairs and you

got, you two were carrying it up the stairs because you were going to be part of this baby coming. And so yeah, it got to be quite the big celebration. Anyway, so that was when Colleen came home. So. And that's when you lived in

And we lived in Innesville then. Yeah. So that was happy days. Is there a place in this country you haven't lived? Not too many. Did you end? I'm flip-flopping subjects here, but did you enjoy being in new towns all the time? Yeah, I did.

I think I always look lucky because I would fit in. You know what I mean? Do you think that's luck? I think so. The reason I say that is it was told this story once about an old man in a town and a newcomer comes in and asks him how the town is. He says, I don't know, how was the town you came from? Ah, it wasn't that good.

Ah, you probably won't like, and then the old man says, oh, you probably won't like this town. And then the next day, another newcomer comes into town and asks the old man how the town is. He said, I don't know, how was the town you came from? He says, oh, it's pretty good. Lots of nice people, great day. And he goes, yeah, you'll probably fit into this town. And so it's why I bring up luck. I don't know if it's luck.

I don't know if you can be that lucky when you switch towns that many times, Hazel. That's just my guess. Well, we lived in Clare's home before. Well, then well, I went, okay, then back up here. So Kelly and I have divorced, and then, like I say, I married Lyle Perrier. then he died of cancer and so then I met Peter Moss and him but we never got married but we lived in Calgary and then we decided to move to Clarice home and we bought a place there and um moved in there and it was like we were into everything I was he was with lions we were with the museum he

helped build the new museum there was on the board and I we were on the board of the seniors group and I got involved with the British home children I well I started with genealogy and then I found out that I was that my grandparents were British home children and that's when I got started with that and it was just sort of we just sort of had a lot of friends there you know we we I guess we've mixed, you know, with the people and that, and you volunteer. But those small towns run on volunteers, you know. The best communities run on volunteers.

That's right. Yeah. They do. And without volunteers, there wouldn't be a community, really. So that's sort of a, and I'm finding since I moved here, the people are really friendly in here, but they keep you at arm's length, you know, like they're all from here kind of thing but they don't really want I they don't really want to accept you there's one girl that one woman in here that I've kind of befriended but it's been it's

not been easy really how long have you been here for just since April but still you know that's that's almost a year yeah but I didn't find that before you know so it's kind of different but maybe we're all just too old I don't know what it is well ladies she mentions the British home children and I'm wondering you know

as we as we clip along here you two know all the stories is there anything you want me to ask her we've always known like it's about being adopted about our dad about Lyle her second husband

being you know part of getting us adopted. We were just, we were always included in everything. Always told about everything. Honestly. Yeah. Like, and if there was a party or a gathering at our house or with friends, kids were always included in everything. You sat on your mom's lap or your dad's lap and you played cards with them and you heard the stories. We just always knew. Like, you Like a lot of this isn't... So you were spot on with her being the social butterfly, and that's what made her life in her town so successful.

Yeah. Well, I'll rephrase it then. If this is the only recording your mother ever does, is there any story you would like me to capture then before I let her off and we start talking British home children? You know, and while they think, I'm going to come back to this because, you know, three different... I mean, you didn't marry your third.

I'm going to say husband. Well, it was my husband, yes. Obviously, you liked companionship then. I do, yes. Yeah, I do. And I miss them. I miss having a partner. I really do.

That was part of life. That was part of my life and it was important to me. Well, I think that's a very human answer. You know, like I've said lots. as fun as it is to come on the road this morning was hard to get out of bed because I was laying next to my wife and then our little girl came in

and you know five in the morning and then she snuggles in and like those are you know all the older generation always tell me oh enjoy those days some mornings or some days you almost have an out of body experience where you can enjoy it

you understand what the moment is and other days they're pooping on the floor peeing on the couch chasing each other with whatever and you're just like what are they talking about? I have no idea what to talk. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it happens, the three-year-old right now, I swear, is part puppy dog.

Because if you scold him, he will go in the room and poop on the floor. Like, yeah, you want to scold me? Okay. And you're like, interesting. I know. I know, and they're all different. You know, they all have their own personalities. You cannot group children, even if they were twins.

they would be different, you know. How about church? Did you go to church all grown up? Yes, we went to the United Church and we walked five miles to church. You did not. You walked five miles to church? No, three.

Three. I lied. Three. Three, yeah. Fabricating over there. But, you know, we went, well, I mean, don't forget that there were, it was a family.

You know what I mean? And we went together and we walked together and our friends were in the neighborhood, so they'd join in. And we had one neighborhood boy, for example. He was an only child. And his mother worked at London Life in London. But she kept house for two bachelors.

And they lived, her and the son lived with these two bachelors. Well, his mother would get home fairly early, from work and so they would have an early dinner. But the minute that he finished dinner and helped with the dishes, he was over at our house. We're just having our dinner. And in those days, we had like a wood stove, you know, and there was always a pail with coal in it sitting beside the stove. Well, that was his chair. He sat in the coal pail every time he came to our place. And he'd sit and he'd wait until we'd finished our dinner. And if he loved my mother's bread pudding,

and he would sit and watch. And boy, I'll tell you, if there was any bread pudding left, he had to have bread pudding. You know, he wouldn't. But he just, well, he was kind of raised with us because, like I say, he was an only child, and he was with us all the time. It was like another kid in our house, you know.

But he was never a problem. And he grew up with us. He had a motorcycle and my brother had a motorcycle and everybody, you know, we were just, and all the kids came from the neighborhood and came to our house to play games. And we played ball in the cow pasture and we would get buffalo chips for bases. That was the fun thing. You know, all the kids came to our house. And we used to play games together. and my mother and dad just went along with the flow.

You know, it was just a few more kids, you know, I guess. I don't know. I don't know. You have a certain point having a few extra kids over to take care of your own kids is quite well. You're like, oh, my goodness, they're at least playing together. Get some moments of peace here. You know, when you talk about walking the church,

the commute almost becomes part of the fun. because actually I hadn't really thought about it until you've put it that way. Along your three miles to the church, you meet other families that join in, and all of a sudden you've got this procession leading towards the church altogether. I can imagine the fun that was had and the headache from a parent's standpoint along the road to get there. Yeah. Well, my mother and dad never went with us, but they were always fun. Never went to church?

Oh, no, they never ever went to church with us. Really? Yeah. Why was that? Well, my dad was brought up in a Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, what all, I don't know how many different churches they belong to in. And I remember as a small child when we lived with him that short time, when we first came out from the West, Sundays were spent on your knees. My grandfather would always preach and pray, even though you'd been to church, Sunday.

afternoon, that's what you did, unless we had company. If we had company, it was different, so we used to always pray we'd get company. But otherwise, we'd spend it on our knees, and I remember, I was skinny, and I was like, oh, I hated it, you know, because my knees were so bony, and, oh, you'd spend hours there, well, and he would never quit talking, and I used to think. And I think my mother and dad just got up to here with church, you know. It wasn't that they didn't believe in church. They just didn't go, you know. They'd had their fill of it, I think, when they were growing up, especially my dad.

So my mother, not so much. They didn't, I don't think they went to church. But, yeah. So then you kids just at some point decided amongst yourselves were going to go to church? Well, they encouraged it, you know. Yeah, I was Sunday school and church, you know, like, and we loved going to Sunday school. You know, that was. And that's where you saw all your friends on Sunday.

They were at church too, you know, so it was fun. I never mind going to Sunday school and church. It's, I just, I don't know, I can't, I guess I go, I can't remember in my time kids taking themselves to church. I just, it's usually led by the parents, I would say. Right, yeah, you see, and that, I mean, like when I remember reading, well, one of the British home children, they either were made to stay home and make dinner, especially the girls, or they got to ride on the back of the wagon because they weren't allowed to sit with the people that they lived with because they were British home children and they were looked down at.

And so as a result, you know, they would sit on the back of the wagon, but they weren't allowed to sit up at the front with them. But they could go to church, though, or in Sunday school, and I assumed that they sat together in the church, I don't know, but I remember they couldn't ride close together on them. You know, that was one of the stories that I sort of remember reading, and I thought, can you imagine them being that petty? I mean, that the kids couldn't be seen.

So they obviously maybe didn't sit together in the church. Maybe the kids went to Sunday school. They were in the church. I don't know. It was always boggled my mind that they could treat children like that. That was... Yeah, I 100% agree. It's once again, I mean, but the further you go back in time,

there's a lot of things that I have a real hard time wrapping my brain around. Oh, yeah. Just how people get standby and watch things happen and everything else. But different times, different customs, different cultures. Well, the home children were treated like they were gutter snipes. and that's what they called them. And they were just bad kids that they'd gathered up off the streets and sent to Canada. A lot of people thought of them that way, you know.

Before we get into the British home children, and I've been dragging this out for a few minutes now, but before I get off of Hazel, when you look back over 91 years, right what has been maybe the biggest change that you recall coming into place whether it's technological world event something at the store invention TV I don't know

some would say power you know electrical stuff others would say the internet others are going to say JFK some will say Elvis I don't know when you look across your lifetime what's the moment that you sticks out where you're like man that I I remember where I was at for this and that was a pretty incredible moment in time well I think to me it's the technology that has changed so rapidly over the years you know I mean we when I first got married we didn't even have a TV I used to babysit and they had a

black and white TV and I could go and watch TV and babysit. That was a big deal. Then when I got married, I worked for GE, of course. So I, first thing I think we bought was a TV, you know, but I mean, when our reception was lousy, but we thought we had the world by the tail and look at it now, you know, so it's amazing. It's kind of funny now. Like, I mean, if you can't see every whisker on a guy's face, you're like, what kind of TV is this, right? Like, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty crazy these days. Well, you can imagine the reception, though, because there was so, well, like this one neighbor where I babysat, I think they were the only ones in the neighborhood who had a TV. So,

you know, snow, there would be a picture, and then it'd be snow, and you'd think, this is fun, you know, really crazy, but, you know, I mean, and look at now, I mean, it's amazing. And we didn't have color either. I just think in my own lifetime, in video games in the world of video games when I was a kid it was the Atari and then you know it graduated and graduated and now like when I watch kids play video games I'm like this is like well I mean VR have you ever had your head in a VR set Hazel no ladies that is something that is quite the experience for the first time you know you think of coming from no TV to now you put on a headset and you can be in a virtual world where

I don't know. I don't even know how to explain it. It's just you're living the video game. Really? It's rather strange in a very peculiar, cool kind of way. Right. And probably you can attest to it, can you? But I don't know. I've never done it either. None of you ever put on a VR headset. Interesting. I'm no Sherlock at this. I've only done it a couple times.

But every time I do it, I'm like, this is almost too much. Really? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, wow. Well, I'd be blown away then, wouldn't I? Do you have any regrets in life? Any regrets? Yeah. Hmm. I don't think so.

I think I've had a pretty good life considering. I was a little farm girl kind of thing, country girl, and we had no money. My dad was in a, and my sister were in a horrible accident. My dad didn't work and was left with brain injury and was a, yeah, it was not an easy life. I think I've seen a lot, done a lot, and been very fortunate considering my background and what I started out, what we started out with, you know, which was nothing, you know. if you could pass along one message to a future generation what message would you pass along live every day to the fullest because you might not get chance to do it again and before i let you out here i mean obviously we're going to sit

and talk some british home uh british home children i don't know why i want to say school children every time i say it it feels like it needs a school in there um is there anything else that i haven't you know i say this every time i do this because this is one of the things until I do it that I never understood. And I was telling you about my grandfather and finding his interview and listening to it and be like seeing the time slowly tick where I knew there was no more. And I always wished I could have been there to prodded the interviewer to ask a few more questions because for all of us, once upon a time, you know, you'll wish the tape goes a little longer

and don't mean to say that it's coming to an end, just that whether you get interviewed 10 more times or not for Sean sitting across from you. This is, we're ticking closer to an end on it. And I go, is there something Hazel wants to talk about that I haven't asked about in your life? Because you're the one who knows it the best. Oh, I don't think. I think you've covered just about everything I can think of anyway. I feel like I was very fortunate because I did get to travel, which I never thought I would be able to do that.

And that was one thing, one of the things that, first of all, adopting, the girls was the biggest pride of my life, but the other was getting the opportunity to see the world as much as I have compared to some that's not that much. But to me it was because as a country farm girl and with nothing, I never thought I'd get to do those things in my life. We're not your favorite travel destination. I don't mean that, but what places stick out Well, I really loved New Zealand. And what years did you go to New Zealand? Like, how long ago? Oh, you were Peter and I married.

84. We went, or I were Lyle. 84. That was the first time I went. Pardon me? Peter's dad died. Well, before Peter's dad died. was over there because he only went he went in 2003 his dad died we had been there in 2002 but the we were on the pipeline yeah we were up north when we finished the Norman Wells job we went to Hong Kong Singapore did the South Pacific and then did we end up not end up in

New Zealand and Australia then I think too. What did traveling then, I'm going to rephrase this, what did traveling all your travels teach you about the world? How lucky we are to be where we are and who we are. I think the biggest culture shock I got was Thailand. That was the one that blew me away. I think I would. Perhaps maybe Hong Kong.

Hong Kong and Singapore, they certainly was different going there too, but Thailand was the one that really shocked me. I was quite taken with Thailand. What shocked you about Thailand? How they live and how, talk about the home children. What I was so taken with is they have, we went to Pataya and that's a funny little kind of a resorty town. where all the, well, at that time, all the rig workers, you know, that were working all from different countries,

they were working all those rigs out in the ocean and so on. That was kind of their place where they came to have a break. You know, if they had a break, that's where they went. And they have, it's sort of like a road through town kind of thing that has all these venues. And for example, there'd be a little roadside bar, you know, a little, and there'd be these men kind of sitting around having a drink. And the girl that was serving them, she would be talking to them, and the next thing, you know, they'd leave together.

and then some other girl would come in and take her place, and then the next thing, you know, she'd be off with these guys. So you know what was going on, what it was. It was just a hooker's bar, you know, kind of thing. And then then you'd walk on further down the street, and there would be a wrestling thing all set up, and the kids were wrestling. Now, this is, we're talking about,

or 12 o'clock at night, you know. And here are all these little kids in there with their boxing gloves on or whatever or wrestling or whatever. And I'm thinking, who has their kids out this time of the night? Or as you were walking along,

there'd be a kid come up behind you and they sold gum and all kinds of things. And they carried, you know, like the old cigarette tray thing that they used to have years ago and the girls would be selling them. The kids would be doing. that. They'd be selling gum and candies and stuff and to you, but they wouldn't just talk

to you or say what they were selling. They would come up behind you and hit you with this thing, you know? And of course, to me that just made me mad. It didn't want to buy anything from them. But I thought, who, the children were being used to promote these things and having people watching them. And I don't know about the wrestling and the box that'd get matches and that kind of thing, how they got paid. I don't know who did that. Or they'd be going down the street with this thing, this big tray,

and it had candied lotus on it. Like they would, they dipped them in a brown sugar coating, you know, and then they'd be selling those on the street. and the people were just buying them like crazy. And I think, who's going to eat that? You know, it was... Yeah, they were insects, candy-coated. Well, I mean, today that's going to be the meat of choice pretty soon.

That's what I've heard. And I thought, well, they were doing that back in Thailand when I was there, you know? And I thought it was gross. I couldn't imagine eating one of those things. But it was really a culture shock. it that way. And I remember we went to a restaurant and we had dinner and there were some people in there and they were eating shrimp and they would peel the shrimp and drop it on the floor. And I thought, well, isn't that strange? Everything went on the floor, all their garbage. I thought, well, why would

people in a restaurant be putting it on the floor? So finally I asked one of the waiters. And I forget, Oh, he said they're from, I forgot now where it was they were from. Oh, those people do that. And I thought, and you let them do it. Do you know what I mean? But, I mean, it was like being in, oh, I'm just trying to think of the name of the place in the states where they put the peanut shells on the floor. But, I mean, that was just an accepted thing there, you know. But yeah, it's funny how different parts of the world, our cultures change.

You know, like, I mean, what we would think is acceptable or not acceptable is acceptable there. You know, it was quite a, it's quite a lesson, like I said to you one time, the best education that your daughter will ever get is by traveling. And I think it's true. that's my take on it anyway I agree let's end on this parenting

is a very rewarding yet difficult thing to do in your years of parenting these two do you you can go either way with it if you like you can have a happy moment or you can have a hair pulling moment

but you have a moment I'm sure what's a story from being at home with these two? Everybody's laughing now, you know? Well, I think with her, it was competitive swimming at 6 o'clock in the morning in the middle of winter. What were you thinking of? The school dance. Oh, oh, oh, do you really want me to tell that?

No, no, no, no. Swimming. Well, they got me curious now. Okay. Colleen was in junior high. Grade seven. Grade seven. Yeah, for school dance.

And they were going to have a school dance. Anyway, she wanted me to drive her to her friend's place, which I did. And so, anyway, she had, oh, you can drop me off here. Okay, so she wasn't going to the school. It was just going to her friend's place. And then they were going to go together to the dance. That was fine. I trusted her, of course.

And I get a phone call from the principal of the school later on in the evening and saying, would you please come and get your daughter? Out here, what did she do now? Apparently they got into the liquor cabinet at the France place before they went to the dance. But the funny point. part of it was. When I got to the school, I was met at the door by her buddies who said, oh, you know what? This is what happens when you're the most popular girl in the school. And I thought, popular. You wait till I get her home. We'll find out how popular she is.

I guess she never forgot that night, eh? The poor girl worked hard the next day. Yeah, that was one of those times when parenting is so much fun. It tests you. It tests you. Would you care to share a story on your second, or your first, I guess? Oh, no, you can't talk that one. She was the perfect, she was perfect.

Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Well, I remember one time, though, that was always stuck in my mind with the girls is the fact that I was divorced and I guess it was when Peter and I were together. Yeah, and you guys came out to camp at Willow Creek. And they had come out, your dad had come out with your kids first, and then you came out after work. And you guys

were there too. Anyway, I remember driving when we were coming into the campground, I knew the guys that run the campground because our RV group had camped there. And anyway, and I always mayor all the bookings and everything. And so he said to me, Azel, I can't believe you. And I went, what? And he goes, you're going camping with your family. and your ex-husband. And he's shaking his head and he goes, what do you mean that's a problem for you? And he said, I just can't figure this one out.

And I said, well, you know what? If you can't teach your kids a little bit of tolerance, so what's life all about? I said, I don't have a problem camping because he's camping there. Those are days that are gone. I mean, I can't do anything about it now, so enjoy every day, you know. That was my philosophy, and so far it's got me along anyway. Well, I appreciate you doing this.

I'm laughing at the time because I'm like, well, I mean, we still got to talk some British home children, but we're going to take a quick break. That way you can stand up, move around, use the bathroom, whatever, and then we'll continue on. But I appreciate you doing this with me. And this is, I'm as excited about the British home children as hearing from a sharp as a tack, 91-year-old as anything, because I think there's so much wisdom and stories that you share and everything else, even perspective on the world. Well, thank you. I've been very fortunate.

I really have. I like, I mean, it was, you know, you don't know what turn your life is going to take, you know. And when I was married to Lyle, he was like, oh. always the head guy on the job kind of thing. And he always had such a way with his men, no matter what they did or what kind of shift they might have got themselves into, he always came out with a found that good side of them. And he always said, people were octangular.

And if you look hard enough, everybody has a good side. And I always thought that was a good philosophy, because it was true, you know. They all, and why sometimes the things happened that they did. You had to kind of, he would sit down and talk to them and find out what was going on in their life. That was a problem or whatever. And he always tried to help where he could.

And he was just everybody, everybody liked him as a boss. And even Roy a week ago said he was the best man. man I ever worked with and he always gave me a laugh every day. And I thought, that was a nice thing for him to say, you know. So that was, yeah, that was the way he was. And, you know, when he came home at night from work, when we were in the bus, and, you know, he would open that door and he did yell, good I, might, you know, and he'd always have a big grin on his face from ear to ear. He was like that, wasn't he? You know, it was just the way he was.

And everybody liked him, you know. So, anyway, I was fortunate. Well, thank you very much. You're more than welcome. Okay, yes, I'm sitting with Hazel Perrier. So we were talking British home children. And you have some of the information on this, lots of the information. I'm just looking to learn here a little bit and see where we go.

Well, I am a descendant of actually four British home children. My grandfather came to Canada when he was seven years old by himself and left a mother. His father had died, and his mother had two younger children than him, and two older girls that were placed in homes in England. So they stayed there. But they had been placed in the Bernardo home, which was a home for destitute children whose parents couldn't keep them

because they couldn't afford to because in most cases the father had passed away. Would that be an orphanage? Yeah, be like an orphanage, yes. And the two girls, like I say, were placed in homes in England as domestics. But my grandfather, at age seven, was sent to Canada.

And once he arrived in Canada in 1893, he was sent to the Muscoca area. And as far as the only information we have was that the people he was with had actually run a big sawmill up there. And I have never figured out exactly what a seven-year-old would be doing, working in a sawmill.

But anyway, then my grandmother, she came in 1897 with her brother and her sister, and she was 11, and the boy was 9, and the youngest was 7. And they were placed in homes in Strathroy, Ontario. My, excuse me, they were actually placed in homes where, They were just people that wanted children, and they didn't really have any specific. They weren't there to be slaves or do work or whatever, except for the boy. He was on a farm, and the girls actually had a good home because they were sent to school, and one was actually being groomed to be a school teacher. but that sort of didn't work out.

And, excuse me, the boy on the farm, and his name was John Wagner, and he ran away. He wasn't being treated very kindly by the farmer. And he ended up down in Council Bluffs, Iowa. And that's where I found him many years ago in actually 2005. You actually found him and got to meet him? And got to meet him, not him, met his family. Or his family, sorry, sorry, sorry, yes. And the story is, there was enough.

Finish, I'm, you're making my brain swirl, that's all. I know, and I'm going crazy on where I'm going. But anyway, he ended up that, he ended up in Council Bluffs Highway, or Highway, Council Bluffs, Iowa, and they had, he had come into Council Bluffs with a traveling roadshow. And on the way there, they were in a, he was in an accident of some sort and ended up with a broken leg and ended up in the hospital in Council Bluffs. But while he was there, there was another fellow in the room with him, his The fellow's girlfriend came up and brought her girlfriend, and he ended up that the girlfriend ended up that he married her in the end.

You're telling me this kid broke his leg, and while in the waiting room, the guy who was in the waiting room beside him. No, it was in the hospital. Correct, sorry. And his girlfriend's girlfriend walks in and they end up getting married? Yeah, eventually, yeah. They get married and have 11 children. children.

But it seemed like... There's a word for that. I feel like it's serendipity or something along that lines. What a turn of events, you know? I think of the Chinese farmer, you know? Have you heard the Chinese parable? I assume, yes. The maybe.

Right. Have you ever heard the Chinese farmer where he's... His horse runs away? Have you heard this story? No, I don't think so. There's a Chinese farmer and his horse runs away. And all the towns people come and... They say, oh, isn't that terrible?

And he goes, I don't know, maybe. The next day, the horse shows back up with a bunch of wild horses, and they all come running up to townspeople again. Oh, isn't that wonderfully brought all these wild horses? And he goes, yeah, maybe. And then the next week, while training the horses, his son breaks his leg. And then all the townspeople come, and they say, isn't that just terrible that your son broke his leg?

Yeah, maybe. And then a couple days later, the general show up looking for able bodies to go to war, but his son's leg is broke so he can't go. and all the towns people come back and say, isn't that wonderful? And he says maybe. Anyways. So there you go, I.

So anyway, back to where they were. Welcome to a podcast, Hazel, where I'm not going to keep you, I'm going to bounce you all over the place here. Okay, that's good because that gives me a chance to regroup. There's a deer wandering around, by the way, down there at the bottom of the hill. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, right there. Yeah. Tucked in the trees. I haven't seen one for a while, so that's kind of neat that they're back. Now I've forgotten where we were. Okay. John? Before you continue reading, for the listener, it was 100,000 British home children were brought across from Britain to Canada in a time span, correct?

Right. And these are homeless, downtrodden, like, why were they sending them to Canada? Okay. reason that the children were sent to Canada was that it was there was a a lot of changes going on in England at the time and TB was very prevalent and the men had been working in the 10 mines and were getting TB and cancer was was something to that not only the men but the women were dying of so which meant that there were a lot of children that were and they always call them orphans but they were not they were semi-orphed they would have lost one parent or the other and in

most cases there was either the woman left with children that she didn't work so she had no way of raising them or the man was left with children and how was he supposed to care for them um yes TB tuberculosis, yes? Yes. And tin mine? They worked in the tin mines, yes. Now, I don't have much history on the tin mines, but it was, and then, of course, it was right after the Irish famine. So there were pretty tough times there.

And a lot of them, like I say, if the mother couldn't work, she had children, and the women just didn't go up. and work in those days like they did. So a lot of them went into workhouses, which were, they would take the families in, and then they took in laundry, and they would do laundry for the well-to-do kind of thing that could afford to send their laundry out. But these were horrible places to be, because the food wasn't good, and the people, especially the women, were not treated very well. There was a lot of things going on in there that were not right. But if they did manage to stay in their homes, they had no way of feeding their children. So the children were running the streets and stealing a loaf of bread where they could or some food. And so they were

trying to get these children off the streets. So they made a deal with Canada and they would sent these children to Canada. And Canada paid $2 a head for these children to come in, and they put them on ships. Well, first of all, they would put them into the homes, and then the homes, like Bernardo's, for example, they would take the children in, and they would actually, they did teach them some domestic skills, and the boys, they taught them how to do different things and they all made their own trunks that they brought, or at least if they were old enough too. And they had them doing skills and trying to keep the children busy. Why trunks? Well, because the trunk had all their possessions in it and it would be something that they could

bring and still. So when this guy right here, the listener is not going to be able to see this, but this is John Valance with his trunk he was given in 1939 to put his simple belongings in for his trip to Canada as one of the thousands of British home children. That's why that's so important to him is because his life was in this box. That's right. And they gave them a Bible and a copy of Pilgrim's Progress and they gave them clothing.

But the thing is that a lot of them, the kids got, shorts like the boys would get shorts and plus fours is what the golfers would call them you know the high socks and and shorts well at the sudden to canada where we have winter you know and and these children came unprepared for what the weather was going to be like and how they had to live here but and yes that that particular one is john valenton he was a a home child living in Calgary, Alberta, and he just died two years ago now. And I knew him quite well, actually. And he still had his Pilgrim's Progress and his Bible and everything. What is Pilgrim's Progress?

That's a book that was, now I'm kind of locks because I can't tell you what the author was, but it was a book that was quite popular to the, at that time, that all the kids read. And I don't know whether they had it in the schools or whether it was just a book that, that they provided for all the kids. I personally have never read it myself. John Bunyan? Oh, okay. Is that who it is?

Yeah, right. Sorry, for the listener here, and I'll read off what I'm reading, because I've never heard of the Pilgrim's Progress. and I'm probably live under a rock, Hazel, so bear with me here. It's a 1678 Pilgrim's Progress

from this world to that, which it is to come, is a 1678, so the year of 1678, Christian allegory written by John Bunyan. It is regarded as one of the most significant works of theological fiction

in English literature and a progenitor of the narrative aspect of Christian media. So it was a Christian, Christian story. Anyways. You just wondered the importance of the Holy Bible. I think we all get why they were given a copy of that. Right. But you don't hear of anybody giving out the pilgrims' progress anymore. Anyways. Like I say, I don't really know. And that's something I should know, I guess,

is more about the book. But unfortunately, I don't. But that's what they were given in their trunks. Now, the trunks varied. They could be just a wooden box or they could be a trunk like that, but they made them in the home, you know, like that was part of the boys' training there, and then they got to bring their trunk with them when they came. And there's, and actually my My brother-in-law, my late brother-in-law, he has his, the family has his grandfather's trunk that he brought from England too, because he was a home child as well. So that is quite a treasure. And in it, all his souvenirs, they gave them, if they were, once they came to Canada, if they were good and everything worked out, okay, then they would give him a medal. and his medal is there.

He was in the army, and he has a personal letter written by King George, and it's in that trunk as well. So there's quite a few of their souvenirs over the years that they saved in that special trunk that they brought from England as a child. What was the medal for? It was for good behavior.

But they had to be good for a whole year to get it. Uh-huh. This is between 1869, this is what you'd sent me, between 1869 and 1948, over 100,000 British children, like my, well, this is your words, like my grandparents were sent to Canada from Great Britain, sorry, during the child immigration movement. Yeah, most of them came from British orphanages or from other institutions and were brought to Canada to work as farm laborers or domestic servants. I, I'm just like to me, until you put this on my table, I had zero clue. Now, I could live under a rock hazel, and maybe that's what I do. But I don't know. I don't hear anything about this.

Is that Sean not paying attention, or is it kind of under the, I don't know, pushed under the rug, so to speak? Well, I think it's something that has been pushed under a rug. and in the last, say, 20 years, it's been something that we've really tried to bring forward, and the idea of doing the quilt that I did and showing it and doing talks and finding out about our history was to educate the people today because so few people know about the British home children and so many people don't even know that they are our descendants of a home child. And that idea, and now there are more records available,

and it's opened up a whole new door for people to find out that their family are British home children descendants. Well, you also put in the letter, today it's estimated 12% of Canada's population is made up of British home children and their descendants. Can you think about that? That's a lot. Well, there was over 118,000 actually that came across. That came across, yes.

You know, you're a parent. Imagine sending your, I don't know, do you know how young, the youngest to come across with? Well, actually, some of them were only a few. Well, I think, actually a friend, I think he was only two and a half or something like around three years old. I can't imagine as a parents being put in that situation. Now, I mean, you talk about TB, you talk about all these different things that, you know, England has an issue with, you know, what are you going to do with all these kids with no parents because of death and everything else?

Right. And so they start sending 100,000 kids overseas to, you know, as we all know here, one of the most dangerous climates on the earth with a pair of shorts and say, here's pilgrims progress have fun kiddos you're going to you know like what a what a crazy crazy thing i mean i i just i have a hard time even put myself in that position you know well exactly and the other thing was i i i know of one of the squares that's on the quilt is the story of a fellow who was sent and he he was sent and and stayed with a man a single man and and he didn't even buy decent clothes for the kid to keep him warm and he was wrapping his feet in gunny

sacks in the winter to keep his feet warm and his feet were frozen and actually what happened to him in the end was they used to have these the neighbors would go around and they would go to one place and they would cut all cut wood for everybody and then they would move to the next place and they did they had beef rings they did the same thing. They would butcher an animal and they would share that and then the next month maybe at somebody else's turn or however long the meat lasted. And so they did that too with doing firewood and so on. And this particular boy actually fell into the saw that they were using and cut his chest open and he spent a year in the hospital. And when he got out of the

hospital, one of the neighbors said that he's not going back with that man, then they took him, and he was with them the rest of his life. And actually, he ended up being buried right next to the family that took him in when he died. And he actually met the queen when she came to Canada. and I think it was 1971 that they were here and he actually, they visited the farm where he was and he actually met her. So it's quite a story.

It's beyond a story, you know, when you think about it, especially for here in Canada, you know, we have these moments of our history that are almost surreal and we have lots of them. And once upon a time I remember saying something silly like,

I kind of like European history or American history, our history is so boring. And then the more stories you dig into in Canada, you're like, well, that was a lie, we just don't talk about it. Like, I don't remember hearing anything about this. You know, as I stare at a picture of your quilt, I'm curious, where did the idea come from? Like, why a quilt? And maybe, I'm sure there's probably an hour-long story to each patch on here. There is. There is.

There's a story with every one of them. There's 56 of them. Thank you. I'm doing quick math in my head. You beat me to it. Well, seven times eight. It's 56, isn't it? It is.

Yeah. Anyway, what happened was I had actually didn't know that my grandparents were British home children. And like I say, I read a book and it triggered my curiosity. And from there, I ended up sending for their record. in England. But in 2007, since I found that my great uncle had gone to Council Bluffs, Iowa, we decided that we were going to take a trip down there and find out more about it because I hadn't been able to contact any of the family.

I just couldn't find his family. And I found, I think, 75 or 73 John Frederick Wagner's, but I can never find the right one. And then finally I found an obituary for him in California and that he came, and it was true that he had been in Council Bluffs, Iowa. And so I actually, in the obituary, I found a granddaughter's name. So we drove to Council Bluffs, Iowa, in the motorhome, my husband and I, and I found a phone number for her, and I phoned her, and I met her the next day,

and I had a picture of her grandmother with two of the children, and so I wasn't sure I had the right person, really, and so when she saw it, she said, that's my grandmother, and I said, I was sure hoping you'd say that, because this is so you're the one I was looking for, and sure enough, I found the family, and there was, and they'd had, there were 11 children in that family and all the offspring from there. So in 2007, they decided to have a family reunion down there, because by that time I had managed to find other members of the families, thanks to her.

So I made a quilt, and I took it down there for the family reunion, and I put pictures of the family and did a tree in the center and wrote all the names on it. And I took that down there. So then they decided in 2010 to do a quilt or to honor the British home children, and they were kind of trying to come up with some ideas, what to do. And there was a gal in St. Catherine's, Ontario, and she was fishing for ideas. And so I said to her, well, I made a family tree quilt last, in 2000.

and took it down to Iowa. And she said, what a great idea. So then she started the ball rolling, and we ended up that I made a quilt out in Alberta, and she made one in Ontario. So that's how we, and they had to submit a square, a certain size, and also send the story of that square, what it meant, and if there were pictures who they were, and the whole story of the family. And that's how this all got started, that way we did all the research.

You know, you both know this. I'm sitting in a room with her daughters as well. But your mom's a total badass. To drive all the way across, you know, like, I wish more of our journalists had your, like, your commitment. We are going to drive there. We're going to find out. I can just imagine your husband at the time going, I'm up for a little adventure.

Let's go see what happens, right? He was 99% behind me or I probably wouldn't have happened. That's a, I mean, like, that's almost unbelievable. You know, like, the commitment to like go and actually find it and see it and try and figure it out. Now, I want to talk about the, well, but I also want to, I'm curious, why, why would it be that you don't know that your grandmother was a British home child? Was it not something that was talked about? No. We've often talked about this and thought, well, there were those three children plus my grandfather that came by himself.

So we have four of them now. But none of their families had any idea. Nobody. So we've often said, did they have a pact between them that they were going to never, ever tell their children what their life was? like and what they went through to get to Canada. It's something that's puzzled me ever since because why was it such a secret? I don't know what to add in. All I can say is I'm like, I wonder how many people have descendants that were British home

children. When you do the math and you're like, I mean, it's like, I don't know how many people even give it a second thought. They probably just move on with life and it's not a big deal. And, you know, they hear some of the same. stories and everything else, but, you know, I can't imagine being a child going across the ocean away from your parents, assuming you've lost one or both, being sent over to a completely foreign land, and Lord willing, you landed in a house that was great and everything went great.

But if you landed in a house that was not great, and those houses exist and exist to this day, right. That is, well, I mean, I don't. don't even know the word for that, but that would be tough. Like, I don't even know if tough is the right word, but that's, there's no running away. How do you get away from that? Well, I tell you, there was a, I had an article in the seniors paper, which is, is out of Regina, and it comes out once a month, the beginning of each month.

And it's devoted to seniors' stories and so on. It's actually a good paper to get. And there's a lot of stories about the past and how their lives were and so on. And so I started getting that paper, and so I had several articles in there. And the one particular one that I wrote was about the home children. And a lady contacted me from Verdun, Manitoba. And she said that her father was a home child, and that he had been sent. to Verdon, actually, to a farm.

He and another boy were on this farm, and they ran away, and they got caught, and so they were sent back to the farmer, and they both got a beating, of course, so they planned it the next time, instead of just running away on the road, they swam across the river, and then that and managed to not be seen by the police or whoever picked them up before and took them back

and so they ended up staying in Verdun Manitoba and so I found so I said to her well what do you know about your dad's past and she said nothing really and so she did know that he was sent by Bernardo's and a friend of mine had she was doing genealogy and she every time she found something on British home children she'd make a copy of it and give it to me and I was living in Claire's home then and so she had brought me this article about these these boys and one was I remembered the name and sure enough it was her father and it was this story about them running away and women across the river and so on. So anyway, so she sent for the records and she found out that he, the mother, the father had died and the mother was actually delinquent. She wasn't caring for the kids

properly and that he was two and a half years old when he was placed in the home and he couldn't walk because he'd never been out of a high chair. And he'd been, or sitting somewhere. He had never been taught to walk. And he was two and a half years old. Anyway, he was sent to Canada as a home child, and like I say, was placed on this farm, where he was actually abused there.

And he slept in a room in the attic, and all that was on the wall was not newspaper, but the funny papers that came in the newspaper every week. what the walls were covered with. That was the only covers on anything. There was no insulation or anything. And his room was so cold. But, I mean, they came to Canada as little children,

and then they were treated so poorly by so many, which is really sad. It's incredible, honestly, that probably so many of them survived, you know? And I don't know what the, I don't even know if you have the stats on like, How many, you know, didn't make it across the ocean or didn't survive landing and getting to the farm and then growing old. Because, I mean, that's a lot. I mean, there's a ton of great, I'm always an optimist. There's a ton of wonderful people in this world that would take somebody in like that and treat them like their own and everything else.

And back then, you know, I look at all the happy stories that came out of there. But let's not kid ourselves. There would have been some tough people back then that really struggled or, or, you know, just didn't know how to deal with a child that came from that background. Like, I mean, that'd be tough on parents, too, inheriting or bringing in a child. I don't know the right word, Hazel, kind of dancing around it, but bringing in a child who's been through some serious trauma, you know, like losing a parent, being shipped by themselves across the ocean. Like, what a unbelievable set of circumstances. Exactly. And there's the other good stories too, of course.

Of course, yeah. Those that were placed on farms or homes where they were treated well and that some of them even inherited the farms. You know, some of them went on to be very well-educated people. Now, my one aunt, the youngest one, Sarah, that Wagner, that came with my grandmother and her brother. She ended up in Ontario at Strathroy. She had a good education.

She married a fellow from Strathroy, and the family were, well, there were market gardeners, and they used to sell vegetables in town and so on. And it was kind of a family project, and they shipped. This has boggled my mind. shipped a carload of eggs once a week to one to Vancouver and one to Montreal. You're talking to the train? On the train.

A carload of eggs. It's a lot of eggs. Okay. Now, how do you keep eggs from breaking or whatever on a train? There must have been away? Yes, there was. If you've ever been to medicine hat to the potteries, they made a... a huge big crock, huge.

And they filled it with eggs, and they made a salt solution of water and salt. And those eggs were emerged in that, and that's how they traveled. Really? If you go to Medicine Hat and go to the, to the, what was called the Medicine Hat potteries, they have them on display,

they even have the recipe there on how to make that salt water that. I'm going to be honest. That's not the way I would have thought they would have shipped them. I would have thought like straw and a wood frame and tuck them in and don't let them move and move on. But a big giant vat. Yeah, but it would keep them from freezing too, you see, as well as they were, you know. Yeah, it was very interesting.

And I had heard that that's how they shipped them, but I didn't know what they shipped. them in and then when I went to the we went through the pottery there a few years ago and it was absolutely amazing when I saw how big of that that is just about as big around as this table is and if you rounded that off that would be how big it was and they filled that with eggs and shipped it every week so they bought up eggs from all the local farmers and then they put it all together and ship them on the train. Well, human ingenuity always finds a way. And I mean, that's not how I would have drawn up shipping eggs, because that's, but I would

love to see it done. I mean, like, wouldn't that be something? Yeah, and I mean, and it showed, and like in the top, they had a cardboard, you know, like in the top, filling in the crock at the potteries, and it showed it with eggs, like a picture of eggs, you know. So I knew then that that's exactly how they did it. But how would you know? Well, I mean, we've forgotten so many things from the past.

It's probably not even laughable. It's kind of sad. But it's hard because as, you know, as things move along and we get new different ways, you know, when we sat down and we're talking about, I believe one of your husbands had worked on reefer vans. Right now, now you have these big giant fridges that can literally, go anywhere you want and they keep everything at a constant temperature and you don't have to worry about anything right so it's it's technology continues to grow and expand and if you go back they

figure ways around um all the different problems they face because they were you know they had to deal with it with the way they had like you know i i keep staring at your quilt and i'm wondering you know the 56 squares you had on there um for the 56 stories i assume of uh british home children how did you pick them or how did the stories come to you or how did how well they were it was online basically and we and we asked people if they you know was just kind of posted and if you were interested in submitting a square and with it the square had to be 10 and a half inches and it had to have pictures or something on the quilt either some of them are embroidered, some of them are a square that they've made and maybe written

something on it. Some of them are pictures and what they did was they were to do the square or they could send the information that they wanted on the square and then we made them for them. I made 15 of the squares that are on there myself and some of them were already done when I got them. And so then I was my job to put them together and to have it, and I had it machine quilted. And then it was sent to Ottawa and was on display in Ottawa for the, they had a night kind of thing there to honor the British home children. And so my quilt went there, but I didn't go myself. I couldn't get away at the time. You know, you've told a few

different stories but from your quilt um i assume there's uh i hate to pick out one or two but at the same time i'm going to try and get you to pick out one or two just to kind of convey to the listener a little bit about the quilt and maybe a story that just pops to my i'll give it to you so you can you can take a little peek at it but i wonder if there isn't a story or two that just pops into your brain when you look back at the the quilt and the 56 different squares and everything else that really encapsulates the story of the British home children. Right. And now there's two particular ones here that I received.

And they're totally different in a way. One is a picture, and it's all embroidered around the outside of it, and it's beautiful. And then there's another one that has people. pieces of things from grandma's sewing basket. And she put on buttons and she put on embroidery thread and all kinds of different things that she would have found in her grandmother's sewing basket. So I got both of the squares, not at the same time,

and each one had a story. And I read the stories and thought, oh, there's such a similarity. Well, as it turned out, they were the same person. One came from Ontario, the other one came from Alberta. And come to find out the one that sent it had written two books about this same person. And she has had two books published, and they were both about the same person. So it was just amazing, and yet they were so different.

a way. And there's also ones, and these, this five here, they were brothers that came, and they were sent to me from the United States. And that was her family, this lady that sent it from the States. And she actually came up, she was in Helena, Montana, and she actually came up and saw it when it was on display in... I'm trying to think. It was, no, sorry. Oh, I can't think of where it was now. Yeah, here's Am, blank.

It was in Alberta. No, further east. Brooks. Brooks. Yeah, it was on display in Brooks. And the five brothers. Yes. Did they all come over together? Yes, apparently they did, yeah. All five brothers came together.

It's quite the amazing story, and now she was so thrilled to think that it was being shown close enough that she could drive up from Helena, Montana to see it. Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it's, I'm just, you know, I'm, I don't remember everything from going through school. I highly doubt you do, and I highly doubt your daughters do. But, you know, when you, when you think about history class, I don't remember ever hearing anything about this. Now, it doesn't mean we didn't talk about it. I'm not going to put that in there, but I don't remember hearing anything about this. Right. And you wonder why that is.

You wonder why, you know, I got a whole bunch of whys that come to mind. But like, even your grandparents, right, of not being, I don't want to say proud of it because, you know, like it's a tough upbringing and everything else. But at the same time, it's a story. I mean, it's a story that is a part of our history as anything else. I mean, like, you know, it's just another part of our culture that would not explain a lot, but it would start to explain a little bit of it. Well, the thing was that my mother was really a good one to talk about her past,

and she always talked about her childhood and how they, she always said, though, I adored my mother and hated my father. And I used to think, why would she say that about her dad? Like what was, what, but she never really said much other than the fact that if you talked at the table, he'd kick you with his big boots. And I always used to think, that was kind of mean. Why would he do that? And then when I found out his background and how he had grown up, that there was no one. wonder he was so mean. He didn't know what it was to be loved. He was seven years old when he was

put on a ship and sent to Canada. What did he know about love? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Well, I think of, I've interviewed a man who went to residential school, you know, First Nations. Right. And we got talking about generational trauma. And I didn't understand what it meant, actually. I was, you know, and he just, he started talking about, you know, like, Um, my dad, I'm using his words, my dad used to drink a lot and, uh, was rough around the edges and I'm being a little bit light on it. But as he got older, then he went through residential school and he was abused and he started to understand what his dad had done. It's taken him years to get to where he, he kind of understands, but he's, he's talking about how it just,

it keeps flowing down because how do you, how does a kid deal with being yanked out of his house and then put through something, you know, and, you know, once again, I don't want to paint him, dark picture across whether we're talking residential schools or we're talking British home children, but certainly there would have been kids who came through it that would have been put in really difficult situations. And then that bleeds into the next generation and nobody understands it because they weren't willing to talk about it. And even our schools aren't willing to talk about it. Nobody's willing to acknowledge that this stuff went on. You know, I'm 36 is the first time I've ever heard of this. And I'm like, how is that even possible?

You know, and the thing is, is you sent me pictures in, what was that, December, January. When was the, when was the Calgary Tower lit up? September 28th. Oh, I'm off again, September. And I wonder how many people drove by that going, oh, well, that's pretty cool colors, I can carry on with life. And you think, what are we doing in this country to try and, like, you're trying to, you're trying to acknowledge a part of our past that is,

certainly there will be great stories. that have come out of this. There were people came across at seven years old, landed in the greatest family ever and thrived and went on to have their own and got the family farm and everything else. But there's going to be the opposite stories. And yet none of the people in Canada seemed to know it,

which is pretty wild. And this sad part of it is that the Calgary Tower is lit every night, and every night it's lit for a different reason. And how many of us ever take time to call the Calgary Tower and say who's honor is the tower lit tonight

because that's what it is. You have to book it. And they don't do it. It's not a commercial thing. It's done for a reason. And all you have to do is ask and tell them for what charity or whatever that you want to live for.

And they do it. You know, and it's wonderful that they do that. I think it's, yeah, but I mean, if nobody knows what the heck's going on, it's just a couple colors up on the, you know. Well, the reconciliation bridge in Calgary as well as the high level bridge in Edmonton is lit all the time too and the same thing. And none of us ever think to inquire as to why and what honor and whose honor is it lit for, you know? and even if you did, they'd say the British home children and you'd look at them and go, and who are they? So if you don't know the history on them.

But there's so many stories. But the one thing that the girls were sent to Canada and they were sent to Peterborough, the majority of them, and they were placed in Hazelbray, was the name of the home that they were put in there. And there's a lady in Peterborough that has done so much work for the home children. And her name is Ivy Susie. And she raised enough funds to put, they put up a monument in Peterborough. It's right by the church where the children went to school.

And there are over 9,000 names on that monument, and both my grandmother and her sister's name. names are on there. And I met a fellow in Claire's home and his grandmother's name is on there, too. And when I went to Peterborough to go to see the monument, yes, I found her name and took a picture of it and brought it back for him. But it's quite amazing, actually. So, you know, and there's been a lot of things done. They have a cemetery there, too, where some of the children that didn't survive, even after they came, are buried there. And, yeah, there's been a lot of work done for the, to honor these children, and yet we never hear about it.

You know, it's like you say, it's never taught in the schools, and we don't know that history. Yeah, I don't, and I, I don't know the, I don't know the answer to it. Other than, you know, you're going to, I, I was saying to a guy that I'm friends with today, I was driving as I'm on the road here today, you know, the first time ever to Rocky Mountain House. He asked me what I was going to do. I'm like, well, I'm going to sit with a 91-year-old woman who's going to talk to me about the British home children. And he's like, well, what's that?

And I kind of gave my little snippet of what I knew. And he goes, sounds like a bit of an adventure. And I'm like, yeah, the problem is, is this adventure now is, you know, I see all these articles and I start seeing different names. And I hear you talk about books. I'm like, oh, boy. Like, you know, like, this is going to become, yeah, it's going to be a, it's going to be this little. thread you pull on and it's going to start to unravel because now I need to know a little bit more, you know, it's no different than, it's honestly no different for me than the residential schools.

The residential schools, we talk about it all the time, like where I grew up, where my parents grew up there was one that was like 20 miles away and nobody seemed to know anything about it. I'm like, how is that possible? Well, how is it possible that 100,000 children came and nobody seems to know about it? Like, I mean, you know, we can beat ourselves up all we want, but at the in the day all we got to do is start uh you know and you've been doing a lovely job like the fact that this has been going on for you know like the one article you showed me is 2010 and i'm sure it's been longer than that and i'm like huh well it's just funny i i feel like i live under a rock some but some i mean that's what the podcast is done over and over and over again is just it keeps

showing me these different things i'm just happy it's it's um canadian things i think we've done across canada uh a poor job of of really um promoting our Canadian heritage and part of that is you know I think our talent runs to the United States and so that I don't know I don't know what it is it's it's an interesting little problem either way I think what you're doing what you are doing and have done is amazing hazel like I'm the quilt for for people who want to see it is at the Frenchman Butte Museum correct right and so I mean for anyone listen to this podcast I mean that's that's that's that's like

right in my stomping grounds. It's like half an hour away from home. Like now I'm like, well, now I've got to go take a look at this thing, right? Like, I mean, this is a piece of history that is more than just a quilt. I love this a quilt. I don't know about anybody else who's listening to this or sitting in this room, but grandma always quilted. She was a fantastic quilter and knit her and all that.

And it must be something about your guys' generation that, because I feel like that's a lost art. I don't know, ladies. Am I wrong on that? No, it's not now. Nobody does that anymore, right? Yes, they do. Do they?

Yes, very, very, very. I definitely live under a rock then. Yes, you're under the rock. That's fair. Because quilting is a big thing now. A big thing? Yes, it is. Very much so.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I even have a quilt that was made by a group in, in Stavely, Alberta, and they're called the Victoria Quilts, and they make them for patients in the cancer clinic, they make them for children in the hospitals, and they donate all this, and they're, that's an amazing venture that's been going on for several years now. I have a quilt. That was my husband's, because he died of cancer, and they gave him a beautiful quilt that they've made. So they're like a smaller quilt that they can just, you know, like a lap quilt they call them sort of thing. But it's absolutely gorgeous and they make hundreds of them, you know. If people wanted to find more out about the British home children, where would you direct them?

Books, links, I don't know, just resources. Go online to Home Children Canada. go to the Archives of Canada. There's a lot of different places. Ancestry. Yeah, there's a lot of information out there and a lot more than what I started when I started looking. But the other thing, too, is that

there is so much history now that, like I say, that wasn't there when I started looking, but the other thing is that I was able to send to England to Bernardo's, the home that had sent my family here and get their original records. And they kept amazing records. Everything was all written down if they got a letter or whatever they got a report on the child, any little thing, went into a handwritten registry, and they made copies of it and sent it to me. It was absolutely amazing.

Now, it costs money to do it. It's around at least $100 Canadian to get it, but it was probably more than that. It depends on what the dollar is, you know, but it's around $100. But like I say, this lady in Verdon, she sent and got her fault. and she's like she she is 99 she was she turned 99 on December the 8th and like she said it was

one of the better things she ever did because she got all his history and was shocking to her when she learned about her father's past but but well worth it to know it you know so I would assume it helps you start to understand some of the things that went on in their lives and maybe can help kind of what's the word I'm looking for kind of shine a light on on where they came from and I mean some of the hardships they would have faced and everything else well exactly like here's a question for you is there um you mentioned that John Valance died two years ago yeah is there still British home children alive today yes there's very few I think is there Any of them that are sharp like yourself, Hazel, that a guy could sit down and have a podcast with?

Yes, there's one particular one that I know. And he lives out in B.C., though. He's at Olala, which is near Vernon. Okay. And he just had his book published, and it's called The Things I Remember. He is a poet. He's written a lot of poems. actually one of his poems is on the quilt

and what's his name? It's Tom Isherwood. Well I tell you what, now that we're doing this little song and dance, it looks like the podcast, you know, Lord Willen, is probably going to be making a road trip. And I just, to me, I've got some things I want to do. And now hearing your story on it and the quilt and everything else, I'm like, I mean, before this is all gone,

Wouldn't it be amazing to sit down with a survivor of it? And I say survivor in not probably the right context. A person who lived it, I guess, is probably more what I'm looking for. But just to explain, you know, the story of coming across and what life was like and where they got put and everything else. Because to hear it from a first person's view, well, wouldn't that be something? Well, the other side of Tom Escherwood's story is the fact that he is not considered a British home child. He is considered a child immigrant. And the reason for that is that he came after the war.

So he lived through the war and came to Canada and was placed on a farm. And it was called Fairbridge, and it's out on the island. It's near Duncan. They were not placed in individual homes. They were kept on the farm at Fairbridge. They had their own school, their own church, their own, and they were placed in cottages, and they had a cottage mother that made their meals and cared for them and so on.

And they were, and, you know, they built it. There are so many kids to each of the cottages, but they were taught farming. They had their own orchards. They had their own farm. They grew all their own vegetables. They had their own cattle, I believe, and yes. But it was sort of like the residential schools was how that system was there. And it has its similarities and its differences all at the same time.

Right. You know, it's such a, well, I mean, I just, I can't imagine the, in Canada today, I can't imagine the residential schools going over. very well and I certainly can imagine 100,000 children coming across from Britain going very well either. Right. I think that'd be, well, I think that'd be a tough pill to swallow in today's world. Right. Now there was, you know, very few of them came in comparison, but they didn't all come to Canada. Some of those went to Africa. Australia and New Zealand is what the one article I read. Yeah. And he had a sister and a brother that went there, and he came to Canada.

This is what is so strange about it. Why would they have not sent them all to the same country? Yeah, I can't imagine. I got siblings. I just can't imagine, you know, one day you wake up, your dad's died because he's, you know, he's been working in the mine, and I assume mining conditions were not great. and I assume there was a whole bunch of problems that came with the living standards and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so then you go, okay, guys, we're going to send you across the sea, but your other siblings are going to go to the other corners of the world away from you. Right. Like, I just can't imagine that. That'd be, well, that'd be difficult to say the least. Exactly.

And the other side of it is you never see them again. In his case, he did see his brother or sister, don't quote me on that but but yeah but you know he has he's to be honest with you he's bitter he's very bitter about his past that he really feels and and the sad part of it is they had a daughter and she just died here a couple of july i guess it was last year she died of cancer and that was there on my family as far as i know and you know so it was like if it wasn't for bad luck the poor man wouldn't have any, you know, just kind of thing. Yeah, but he has got his book published now, and I have a copy of it,

and it's all the poems. I think he's written something like 80 poems or something like that that he had in the book. But it's, you know, like he's the one, I think is his first Christmas in Canada. And, you know, it's like the saddest thing, you know, really. That's hard to believe that when you read it, it's just like, tear-jurker almost, you know, the poor man, what he went through. And they were tough on the kids, you know, like they were so strict with them, and caning was the big thing back then that the kids all hated, you know, that they used to make them

pull their pants down and their bare butt and lay them over a table and then cane them, you know. I mean, that's horrible in front of all your friends and your, you know, like the What were their thinkings when they treating children like that? You know, it wasn't human to me. I don't have the answer to it. You know, we have a different problem today. I mean, he can't discipline kids at all. You know, like, it's funny.

Do you want caning back? No. But, I mean, there has to be rules and discipline because those things are good for anyone. I mean, I have three young kids. If there's no rules, man. like they will burn the house down essentially. Like they are little orangutans.

Like they're fun, but they still need rules, boundaries, discipline. Right. But structure. There's the difference between discipline and torture. True. True.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's tough. I can't put myself back in the place of a school teacher back then when they would do such things. You know, the belt was another one that I hear lots about. Right. I've heard different stories that make zero sense to me on how to punish kids back in the day.

And it was very creative, honestly, how they did things. Not that I would like to have experienced pretty much any of them. Right. Yeah, exactly. And I can't imagine what it would be like in those homes. I just really can't. You hear all these stories and you think, oh, my goodness, how could they treat children like that? you know, really.

Yeah, I agree. Before I let you out of here, or I guess before I let myself out of here, is there anything else that we should talk about, Hazel? You've given me such a crash course in British home children to start with that I wonder when I pull on this thread again where it's going to lead me. But it's been an interesting, roughly, hour talking about, British home children, roughly somewhere in there.

And I go, if I've missed anything, by all means, have at it. I don't want to cut it short, but at the same time, if there's, you know, like, there's a lot there. And I think for myself, and probably for a lot of people, they just need to go look at some of the online sources, read a book or two, because it sounds like there's more than just a little bit of information now, and start to educate ourselves in some of Canada's history and what actually took place, you know, in a... in a time span where, you know, a lot of people didn't realize or I at least didn't talk openly about this going on.

Right. Well, like, for example, one of the squares on the quilt I got from a girl in Alberta here, and she said, actually, it's the one with the cat and the churn. And she actually painted, that's a paint, that's painted on the fabric. And she painted the picture and she's got this old butter churn and a cat standing up there kind of thing and like she said that they love to go to grandma's house and she was a British home child and because she always had lots of cats

for them to play with and she always had nice sweet cream and homemade butter and that was the big thing that when they went to grandma's house and that was her memories of her grandma's house. So, and that was her memories of her grandmother, and she painted it on the, on the fabric. And it was one of the squares on the quilt. So it was quite an interesting story, you know, so.

Yeah, and like I say, every square has its story. And it's actually, you know, if you could take the time to sit down and read all the 56 stories. Well, but that's the thing. I really impress upon the listener when they listen to this. to go and actually see it because, I mean, it's sitting in Frenchman Butte, one, so A, you can make a road trip wherever you're at to go see that one. Right. And there is a book there with all the stories and all the pictures in. Right. So, yes. And two, you've given me a couple different, not only a survivor, but also books written about it that I think would be just fascinating. And a person or Canadians can start to educate themselves if they didn't already know about it to, to, to, uh,

to listen and and you know once again educate themselves I know there's been when it comes to residential schools I've been reading books on that and and just trying to like figure out more about it well this is just another thing in our history that I think we you know you can read up on and and here's something that I don't think a lot of us really knew happened or you know or even the the people that came through it really talked about I think that's you know an interesting part of this so right well the other thing is that there's a fellow by the name of Brad Barnes, and he's from Red Deer,

and he wrote a book called The Reluctant Canadian, and it's about his grandfather. And his grandfather, he only met him the very night he died. So he knew nothing much about his past, but what he did in writing the book was he did a lot of research, and he found out a lot of stories about how they lived and how they managed on their own. And he found out his grandfather used to ride the rails. So basically the story is, you might say, semi-fiction, but it's based on fact. And to me, it's one of the better written books that I have read on the British Home Children.

Great. You're giving me more material to have to read there, Hazel. I haven't even started yet. You haven't seen my library, have you? And there's just a new book that just came out. So, a matter of fact, you just printed it out for me today. That's a new book. So I have trouble keeping up with the books. Everybody's got stories to tell. And yeah, there are so many. really well-written books about the British home children. And this is what Marilyn from French Ben-Beaut is saying, I've been reading all these books, and she said,

I just can't believe some of the stories. Some of them are really sad, though, you know, and some of them aren't. So there's so much to learn even from reading the books. Absolutely. Yeah. And the one that I was telling you about where I got the two squares that were the same lady, one of them, Her name is Carolyn Pogue, and like I say, she's written two or three books on her grandmother.

So the first one was Gwen, and the second one was West Wind Calling. And, yeah, so they're really good books, too. And I don't know if you might want to have a look at thought. It's... Talking about lighting up. We had the Beacons of Light, and it was right across Canada, and that was to celebrate the 150th anniversary of when the first children came to Canada. And so it's amazing the places in Canada that do light up their buildings

and their different places, their bridges, their towers, whatever, across Canada. And so we had right across Canada, and we ask everybody to turn on their porch lights and honor the children on September the 28th. September the 28th. I'm going to remember that for this year. I'm going to make sure I talk about it. That is, Devin. Here's the book your daughter just had to me.

Here's the opening paragraph because I find this rather interesting. The year is 1869. The place is the old jailhouse in Niagara on the Lake, Ontario. The event is the arrival of Maria Rye, a philanthropist and social reformer from England. with her 67 girls and six boys between the ages of four and 13 who would make the remodeled jailhouse their temporary residence called our Western home. It was the first of what came to be known as receiving or distributing homes set up across Canada in preparation for more children to come.

The event signaled the beginning of the child migration scheme, a multi-government funded program that permitted almost 50 organizations from the United Kingdom to bring over 100,000 children between 2 and 18 years of age to Canada. The average age was 12 and they were called home children and later British home children. That's, well, I tell you what, I've got my work cut out for me now. Now that I've got my, you know, I've stepped my toe into the water, so to speak. I've really enjoyed this and I really appreciate you open up your home and sitting with me for an afternoon. You know, this has been an interesting, I got to say, and I mean, your daughters

already know this, but for a 91-year-old woman, your mind is as sharp as a tack, and I would also say your energy level is impressive, because I'm not tired by any stretch, but we've been sitting here now for almost five straight hours, and you haven't dropped a beat. And I think that's, you know, if there's anything all of us younger folks should strive for, it's your level of knowledge and energy at 91. I think it's very important. impressive and well I hope I don't know if our paths cross again but if they do I look forward to it and I appreciate you talking a little bit of the British home children with me and I just thank you for having me here well thank you and thanks for

bringing this to attention of people that don't know anything about it and there's so much to learn we just have to look for it