Shawn Ryan Show - #113 Admiral Tim Gallaudet - The Search for Alien USOs

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Tim Gallaudet is a retired Navy Admiral and Oceanographer. Gallaudet's afloat tours included Oceanographic Unit 5 aboard USNS Harkness, USS Peleliu, and USS Kitty Hawk. During these tours, Gallaudet served in Operations Southern Watch, Provide Promise, Sharp Guard, Deny Flight, Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. He also led management of the nation’s fisheries, coastal resources and waterways, weather satellites, weather services, and environmental research as Deputy Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Today, he is the CEO of Ocean STL Consulting, a firm that is enabling public and private entities to explore USOs (unidentified submerged objects) and the ocean at large. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://shopify.com/shawn https://meetfabric.com/shawn https://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://bubsnaturals.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner Tim Gallaudet Links: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rear-admiral-tim-gallaudet-phd-us-navy-ret-b18185149 Ocean STL Consulting - https://www.oceanstl.com X - https://x.com/gallaudettim Podcast - https://www.coastalnewstoday.com/curator/adm-tim-gallaudet Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tim Gallaudet, welcome to the show. It's an honor to be here, Sean. Thank you for inviting me. It's an honor to have you here. So you kind of came on my radar. I've been looking around at some of the UAP, UFO stuff, and I've been hearing a lot about the water and how they possibly might be coming out of the water. There's been sightings and so been looking for somebody to speak on that.

And we ran across you. So thank you so much for being here. It's an honor to have you here as well. And man, I am just really excited to pick your brain on what you know about all this stuff. So let's go. But everybody starts off with a introduction here. So if you don't mind, Admiral Tim Gallaudet, American oceanographer, retired rear admiral in the United States Navy, formerly worked on the US Department of Commerce

as the acting undersecretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere. Commerce as the Acting Undersecretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere. Also Acting Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the NOAA. As of 2024, you're the CEO of Ocean STL Consulting, LLC, host of the American Blue Economy podcast, prominent member of the UFO community on the board of directors for Force Blue, honored as a distinguished graduate of the University of California San Diego,

your research affiliate for Harvard's Galileo project. You're on the board of the Seoul Foundation and Americans for Safe Aerospace. And you later this year have a book coming out on leadership. There you go. There we go. That's some of the things. Yeah, I'm sure I'm missing a handful of things.

Anything in particular? No, no, it's all good. That's enough. That's enough. All right. Well, a couple of things we've got to crank out first. Everybody that comes on the show gets a gift. Oh, I've been waiting for this.

There you go. Any guesses? Gummies? Hey, hey. Good guess. Oh, how about that? There they are. Made in the USA.

My youngest daughter, I'm going to be her favorite person. Really? Oh yeah, she loves these. I'll give you some more for the ride home. Okay, okay. these. I'll give you some more for the ride home. Okay, okay. Fantastic, thanks. But I also have a subscription account, so on Patreon. And so one of the perks that we give our patrons

who are our top supporters, we give them an opportunity to ask the current guest questions. And so there's a couple of good ones here. This one is from Greg. Are there other areas that have more common UFO activity besides the California and Florida coasts? From what I understand, yes, there are.

There are certain places around the globe that are hotspots. I don't have that all mapped out myself, but the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, SCU, they're a pretty credible research organization, and they've done that. I think there's some places in South America and where else in the Pacific Northwest possibly, but there are. This is documented, and you could do a Google search and find them. Interesting. This is from Lester Dotson.

What effects do underwater thermal vents and underwater volcanic activity have on ocean temperatures, ocean currents, and the overall world climate? That's interesting. That's a good question. I don't think hydrothermal vents are a major factor in changes in the climate, but they're very interesting scientifically

because they hold a habitat that is super extreme, high temperatures, very toxic with metals and minerals, but organisms have evolved to live and thrive in those environments. And it's really interesting regarding this current topic because of UAP, because it's basically, we already have aliens in our oceans when you go to those places.

Some of them don't have any, they're all white because they don't need any colorations and it's so dark down there. Giant clams, for example, and mussels, as well as other types of tube worms. Just really weird, weird sea life if you go and look at some hydrothermal vent imagery or expeditions that I have friends who've done that. Wow.

How deep are these? Oh, shoot. Well, the first one that was discovered was off the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, I believe, and my buddy Robert Ballert, the discoverer of the Titanic. He was one of the ones who found him. He was working with the French. And I think there might be around two miles deep or so. It varies. It varies.

Wow. And then the last question, which actually we had kind of spoken about before we started rolling the cameras, but I have a lot of patrons that are curious on your thoughts to the UFO whistleblower series that we did, I think it was right about a year ago. Right, right. That was a really compelling series. So I've been in this UAP topic for a little over about two years. And initially, like Michael Herrera, the Marine, where he saw paramilitary forces from some

agency and that whole story, originally, I would have dismissed that as can't be, our government doesn't do that. But the more I'm learning and that's coming out, and I could talk about some examples, I wouldn't be surprised if there was credibility to that. For example, there is a book out there by a guy named Greg Bishop called Project Beta. Have you ever heard of it? I haven't. This is a really good book for right now.

It's a- Project Beta. Project Beta, and the subtitle is something like the story of Paul Benowitz and the evolution of the modern UFO myth. And what it's about is a civilian physicist who was on contract to work for the Air Force, I believe. And ultimately, he was one of these people who was a civilian researcher in the UAP in the New Mexico area

where there was a... That's a hotspot. And the Air Force deliberately deceived him and exploited him and even broke into his house to make him believe that there was going to be an imminent alien invasion. And he basically nearly went crazy. And the Air Force did that deliberately. What? Yeah.

Yes. The book is really good to read too. You can read it like in a day. It's all happened. The main perpetrator in the Air Force is a guy named Richard Doty. He's quite well known in the UAP circles. And that's what he did. And I can see that happening right now.

And we can talk about this later, but you know this DOD UFO office called AERO? So they recently released a report. Real quick, what does AERO stand for again? All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. And their report was looking at the historical kind of story of US government's UAP involvement. Congress directed them to do this report and they basically didn't do their job.

There was a lot of errors, they missed a lot. One of the prominent UAP authorities on national security, Chris Mellon, wrote a scathing expose, if you will, on all the errors in the report and how they didn't meet the congressional mandate. When you read that, and you and how they didn't meet the congressional mandate. And when you read that, and you can tell they're obviously obfuscating. They are deliberately not saying what they know and saying things that are patently untrue in this report that Congress directed. And so Chris wrote a great article in the debrief about it and all the flaws.

And when you put that together and look at that, you can just see that is active disinformation. They're not acknowledging what they know, and they're actually putting out false information. Why are they putting out false information? So this is really, it makes Security Council upon direction from the president and the Department of Defense and the intelligence community, the Office of Director of National Intelligence, they're the ones who could have the say, should we disclose or not? And the arrow is just doing their bidding because that executive branch, those bodies, they set the policy of the administration.

I saw this in my job under Secretary of Commerce. The Trump administration wanted to do certain things and we did those things. We actually did a lot of good and I could talk about that that the press never gave us credit for, but that's how it flows. And this administration doesn't want to do that. So Arrow is just the mouthpiece. credit for, but that's how it flows. This administration doesn't want to do that. Arrow is just the mouthpiece. It's the policy at the top level of the executive branch that directs whether they want to disclose

or not. Now, it makes a lot of sense because UFO people want to see it, but if you were Biden, would you want to tell the American public, hey, I can't keep our airspace safe. It's being visited by entities whose intent I don't understand and I can't control it. Same for our water space. Do you think he might announce that to the American people on the verge of the election and say, I'm not doing my job. I can't keep you all safe? I don't think so.

Probably not. But what is the disinformation piece? Why would the Air Force be planting disinformation in researchers' homes? To make them believe. But that was back then. I'd be hard pressed to see them do that today. But that's it. They went out of control.

They were basically not aligned with the Constitution. And they did that because, now, they don't say it in the book. The book just talks about the facts. But it's the same thing, again, that's happening today. They don't want the public to know that there really is a crash retrieval program and that we are monitoring UAP in our airspace and water space. And we can't control their actions.

And we don't fully understand their intentions. And that's a dangerous thing to leak to the public. And so they are deliberately falsifying it and exploiting people, making them appear as wackos, thus creating a stigma behind the whole scene, which has prevented serious scientific study. And that's why I've joined Galileo, Americans for Save Aerospace, and the Soul Foundation to advance the scientific

study of the phenomenon. Interesting. So the disinformation is just to discredit whoever is getting into the subject. That's right. And it's happening overtly today. That office is doing it. And you see it all around the media now. There are individuals who I will not name, who I believe are getting paid, but every

day they get out online and they're well known in this UAP community. Their number one job is to discredit these national authorities, these people like Lou Elizondo, who was with the task force, the UAP task force. I've met and trust and know, and he is 100% who he says he is, and what he says he's seen and knows, I have total confidence in.

People like him, he's getting, he's an active target of people discrediting him and others too Interesting interesting. Is there anybody I should be looking out for? Gosh I I don't study this like other people do some people are they do they really spend a lot of time on this Yeah, I'm just not gonna name names because I don't know I don't want to I don't want to do that I spent a lot of time on this. Yeah. I'm just not gonna name names. Cause I don't know. I don't wanna do that.

I understand. I'll ask you offline. Let's get into the Galileo project. Yeah. That sounds fascinating. How did you get involved in that? Well, again, I had left the government and so the background is this.

One of my jobs in the Navy is I was the superintendent of the US Naval Observatory in Washington, DC. So that has, it's known for two things. It's where the vice president lives. He lives in the house of the former superintendent. So I didn't get that house when I came in. The vice president was there. This unit that has historically been mapping the stars for the US for the purpose of navigation.

The age of sail, our original ships, the six frigates, they navigated using celestial navigation. That's how evolved to modern day star mapping, which is used for satellite navigation. Consider this, if GPS tells you where it is, or you are, how does GPS know where it is, the constellation? They reference themselves to the stars in our galaxy that are relatively fixed because they're so far away. You create something called a celestial reference frame. And that is the coordinate system that satellites navigate off of precisely, and then therefore

could tell you where you are. So we updated all the star positions. The universe is expanding, so we'd have to make new catalogs every so often. That's the observatory. Bottom line is that I got to know a lot of astrophysicists, and I learned a lot of cosmology, and I realized the universe is so giant, we'd be arrogant to think that we're the only species that's evolved to travel between celestial bodies. And so we have 100 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy, and there are over 100

billion galaxies in the observable universe. That's just crazy. I was open to that, and then when I left the government, I decided I'll join Galileo because Galileo, under Avi Loeb at Harvard, he is developing a network of observatories, telescopes, and other sensors to look for UAP in the near-Earth atmosphere. He's published several books on this topic.

I love the way he thinks. He's a total scientific approach. Being an astronomer and understanding the scales that I just talked about in terms of space and time, 14 billion year old universe, you have to think, okay, in the Earth, we have evolved, we're pretty new on the scene. The Earth's been around for like four billion years, and we've only been humans on the scene for not even a million.

And so we occupy the sliver of time in the whole scale of the Earth and the universe. And look how fast we've advanced in technology in the even tinier part of the last 100 years. So why couldn't an advanced technological civilization that evolved to go way past us and then maybe even died off millions of years ago somewhere else. So he's on this search to either find active UAP or the remnants of another technological civilization. When you think about those scales and the fact that,

okay, there's life on this earth. So we know that life can evolve on a planet. It's just myopic to think, why wouldn't it happen somewhere else in this giant universe? Yeah, yeah. You had mentioned just a minute ago that the universe is expanding. And I've been watching things on this,

but how do we know it's expanding? Well, I won't go into the details here, but astronomers can see it in different signatures. I believe Edwin Hubble, I think, was the first astronomer to find evidence of that. And it's based on, gosh, it's not necessarily the, I think it's a thing they call redshift, where a certain spectrum of electromagnetic energy in energy out in the universe has a feature to

it like a Doppler shift when you know a train's going by or you're going fast by something and you hear that change in frequency. I believe it's something like that. Don't quote me. I haven't done astronomy for a long time, but astronomers have been able to prove it conclusively. What do you think it's expanding into? Right, that's exactly it. Where'd it come from?

There's this big bang that happened 14.6 billion years ago. Nobody knows what happened before that or what was. What was there? I mean, what does that mean? Does it mean that- Is it creating space? Is there a wall? Yeah, like is there an end?

What's on the other side of it? I don't know. Exactly. And that's why when you think about that weirdness, then you start appreciating that other weirdness could be too, because again, we've only reached our understanding of modern physics in the last hundred years. What if we evolve and live and don't kill ourselves for another thousand or million years?

What is the state of technology going to be like then? That's why when we talk about where are these things coming from, it could be anything. It could be from other dimensions that we just haven't learned the physics about, or again, from another part of the universe that we say, okay, we can't travel that far, that fast, based on the known laws of physics and the speed of light, but maybe we'll invent that and discover those physics sometime in the future. Wow, wow.

Man, that's fascinating. There's so much to cover here. Yeah, exactly. But let's start with a little bit of your Navy career. So you're an oceanographer in the Navy. What does an oceanographer do? You know, I've seen a lot during my time as a Navy SEAL and a CIA contractor, and I've learned even more hosting this show. The one thing I can tell you for sure is that it pays to be prepared. Right now, with our national debt surging to unfathomable levels, global

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because I wanted to be an oceanographer. It wasn't because I wanted to join the Navy. My dad had been in and I respected the service, of course, but my passion is in the ocean. That's really why we're here, because we'll get into the UAP and the ocean later. I grew up in Southern California. I love to swim and surf. I wanted to study the ocean.

The Naval Academy had a great major, and they had a scholarship to this institution called Scripps Institution of Oceanography. I wanted to go there and get it. I got that, and then I started doing that work in the Navy. What it involves is basically knowing everything about the physical ocean and predicting it. Waves, currents, how the ocean structure affects acoustic propagation, which is the top consideration in undersea warfare and finding and killing enemy submarines and vice versa, not being killed by an enemy submarine.

That's what oceanographers do for the most part. I work with your community, Navy Special Warfare, for a time because a lot of work with the steel deliver vehicles, for example, or anything like a special reconnaissance mission from offshore. The ton of work they do is dependent upon the ocean, wave heights, currents, temperature. My SDV buddies would hype out on every mission. I would never want to do that. My wife was a Navy diver.

It's funny because when I was at the Navy SEAL headquarters, I had a good buddy who had formerly been in the SDV teams. And he knew my wife, and they had these mutual conversations together. And whenever we had parties or whatnot, because my wife had been a Navy diver, and Bruce had been an SDV operator, and they would always just talk about hating to be cold now after all those missions. But anyways, yeah, so just helping operators in any field, whether it be the surface Navy, submarine seals, know the ocean and predict it

so they can plan their missions more effectively. Then you went on, you were a flag officer at the Pentagon. What were you doing there? Well, I was the oceanographer of the Navy. That's the top oceanographer and meteorologist and hydrographer, advising the chief of naval operations on everything that my community of officers did for the Navy. So I was in charge of six of our oceanographic ships that are all around the world

collecting ocean data and mapping the sea floor. So this is an interesting thing. and mapping the seafloor. So this is an interesting thing. You see these pictures of the Earth, and sometimes you'll see like Google Earth's ocean features, and you think the seafloor is all mapped. And the fact is it's not. We've not even mapped 25% of the world's seafloor to a modern standard,

meaning multi-beam sonar and GPS navigation. That's 75% of the Earth's seafloor modern standard, meaning multi-beam sonar and GPS navigation. That's 75% of the Earth's seafloor is basically uncharted territory. It's even crazier for the volume of the ocean. Barely 5% of the ocean volume has ever been explored with a remotely operated vehicle. 5%. 5%. Yeah.

That much volume, we don't even know what's out there. So I did that for the Navy in the Pentagon. And after I left, I did that at this US agency, which was a US top ocean agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. And then since I've left, I'm just consulting for some companies that do that kind of work, ocean tech, weather tech, some other things. Yeah. do that kind of work, ocean tech, weather tech, some other things. There's another thing about this underwater feature off SoCal that I want to dive an ROV

on. What happened is I wanted to get a better look at it and I happen to know this very famous explorer. His name is Victor Vescovo. Here's the kind of guy Victor is. He's a private equity investor. He was an intelligence officer in the Nail Reserve. Anybody made a lot of money in his day job.

He has done the Explorers Club Grand Slam, which involves hiking all the seven peaks, including Everest, and skiing to the North Pole and the South Pole. And Victor, for him, it wasn't enough. So he decided, he learned that all the deep ocean trenches in the world, not all of them have been explored. So he hired a company, bought a ship, built his own submersible, and financed for the sum of about $50 million, an expedition to dive in all the five deep trenches. It's called the Five Deeps.

That's never happened. So he built a submersible that could go all the way down to the Marianas Trench, the deepest part of the ocean. They call it Challenger Deep. And he's done that 14 times, which is incredible. That only dove twice before. How deep is it? 35,000 feet.

Wow. 10,000 plus feet. Wow. 10,000 plus meters. Yeah. This is crazy. And so he's done some exploring. What happened is I signed an agreement with him when I was at NOAA, and he agreed to put our scientists on his ship and give us the data he collected because he also had a really

great sonar, a multi-beam bathymetry sonar. We had that agreement. One time after I left the government, I learned that he was going to do a test cruise, if you will, a shakedown for his ship because it got a new sonar on it, the state of the art. When I learned he was doing it and I knew about this one feature that I couldn't explain on the seafloor, I wrote Victor and I said, hey, this cruise you're going to go test your sonar at, I have an idea for you and it's going to be an expedition like no other.

I told him about what I was doing with UAP and my hypothesis on this feature maybe being the result of some interaction with a USO in the seabed. I have some other coordinates too. We gave him some coordinates of areas like where we knew the Nimitz had its encounter and the Omaha had its encounter, just areas where UAP had been observed and USOs. Maybe there's something on the seabed there. I didn't think he'd write me back. I was curious.

I thought he might think I was off my rocker. Well, he wrote me back and just said, send me the coordinates. And he went and surveyed all around those areas. Unfortunately, his submersible wasn't ready and he couldn't get his eyes on that target and see it optically. But he got some high resolution bathymetry with the sonar, and that's what I'm working off of. Well, how long ago did this happen?

Oh, it might have been two years. And that's what's interesting about my point, too, is this, that here is a guy like him, and I told him about possible UAP activity in the ocean, and he didn't blink. He just said, send me the coordinates. I have one other story, and it relates to this, the ocean, and I guess maybe the credibility of the topic. So I mentioned that I work with the National Academies, and the National Academies of Science,

Engineering, and Medicine. And they have this body on it called the Ocean Studies Board. This is the hall of fame or the all-stars of ocean science in our nation. These are just top-tier ocean scientists who get together and we decide upon topics of interest on the ocean and we agree on studies and help conduct them. Things like the illegal fishing issue I talked about, ocean plastics, you name it. Well, I went to them and I pulled together all my info about what Congress had done,

the DOD is doing, and NASA has a study team. I recommended that we get together and do a survey of all the government data sets, ocean data sets, and just look for anomalous activity and see if there are areas where we know it occurs and they just haven't been looked at because remember I mentioned it's not necessarily the topic or target of most ocean research expeditions. So maybe it's in the data and no one even thought about calling it out. Well, I wasn't sure what they'd say, and they did not laugh me out of the room. They actually said, wow, that's interesting, Tim.

Maybe you should look into it, but you probably want to include all the classified data sources too, and we don't do that. The group that does that at the academies is the Naval Studies Board. Oh, okay. So that was great because that was familiar territory for me because I briefed the Naval Studies Board multiple times on different issues, the Naval Studies Board. So I went to the chair who happens to be retired four-star Admiral Gary Roughead, former chief of Naval Operations when I was in the Pentagon as a one-star and my boss.

So I knew him, or pardon me, I was a captain at the time. So he's my boss's boss and I've briefed him before. So I go to him and I say, we have a Zoom meeting. I tell him about all this UAP research that's going on by credible institutions and the government. And he thought, Tim, that is something we should be doing. And he said, not only because if we have things in our water space that we don't know about, we should.

And he said, but also, this is gonna help us know a lot more about the ocean. And I remember I talked about knowing more about the ocean is gonna help us with China. And he said, we need to know more about the ocean for that very reason, to be better than them. So two purposes he thought we could achieve with that. So where I am with this is that now I have to,

they need government funding. They need a government sponsor to say, hey, Naval Studies Board, do this for us and we'll pay you this much. And so I now have to go back to the government, unfortunately, either the Office of Naval Intelligence, my former command, the Naval Oceanographic Office that I was in charge of, or NOAA, and see if they'll want to do a study. I asked NOAA, and they already said, no, we have too many other things on our plate,

not interested. I don't see the DOD, or Office of Naval Intelligence, doing the same again because of the nondisclosure policy currently that exists in the executive branch, but I'm still going to ask and still going to try. Well, I can't wait to see what you come up with. We'll see what happens.

What was it that, I mean, how did you get involved in this whole UFO, UAP thing? Right, right. So this, I've said this story before, but it's worth going at again. First off, as I mentioned, I was a superintendent of the Naval Observatory, so I understood how big the universe was and I was open-minded to that there could be other life outside of the Earth. And then as a one-star, I had actually two jobs. I had a Pentagon job and then I also was an operational commander.

So there's a one-star job in Stennis Space Center, Mississippi, called the Commander of the Navy Meteorology and Oceanography Command. That's all the folks that did what I did. There's enlisted aerographers that do weather forecasting on aircraft carriers and shore stations, and there's other folks that, again, advise for anti-summery warfare. All these about 3,000 people, civilians and uniformed, do things like ocean mapping, weather forecasting, ocean forecasting, and I was in charge of them all. And so I'm in my office that one day, so I was split in time between the Pentagon and

DC in this office in Stennis. And one day I get this email on the Navy's secret network, CIPRNET, and it's from my boss's operation officer. I was reporting to a four-star admiral, U.S. Fleet Forces Command. His operations officer was a two-star, and the email was sent to all the subordinate commanders. This is at least 20 flags and SESs. All the deputies are copied on it,

and the title of it is, Urgent Safety of Flight Issue. All caps. And the body of the email said, if any of you know what these are, tell me ASAP. We are having numerous near midair collisions. And if we don't stop it, we're gonna have to cancel the exercise. And attached to the video was the now famous leaked GoFast video.

You know it, don't you? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So it's UAP, F-18 pilots captured video of this UAP zorching over the water. There's no flight control surfaces or propulsion means that are visible. It's just a little round sphere. And then the pilots are all going crazy

and other videos have mentioned how there were multiple ones out there. And I knew right then and there that was not ours. We don't have technology like that. I was read into a lot of SAPs, to the best of my knowledge, and we would never do that in a training range, especially aircraft carrier workups are so compressed.

They have to do all these things. The pilots got to get certified. They got to land so many times on the carrier. They got to do all these things and certify to go deploy. So throwing out advanced technology in a training range during a pre-deployment workup just doesn't happen. I mean, people will get fired. So, and of course we have testing ranges to do that.

Of course. I knew that wasn't ours. I also had been read into all the threat, our adversaries capabilities. I knew that nobody else had that. I knew right there that was something not ours, not human, off-world, whatever. It just wasn't ours. My deputy and I were both open-minded. He was in SES. I pulled him over and we've talked about it for a while.

We're just pretty much amazed. But the next day, that email was wiped from my computer, and my deputies, and everybody else. So, okay, it's gone. Wow. I wanted to save that thing. It was interesting. Come to find out, I go to monthly meetings at my boss's headquarters in Norfolk.

And we always talk about staying up with the training cycle and safety issues always came up. And this was a big safety issue. The ops officer said so. And so, and my job as the chief meteorologist in the Navy, another one of my hats, was safety of flight. And so we get into the next monthly meeting and no one brings this stuff up. No one's talking about it, about a safety issue

almost canceling this major training event. And then you come to find out one of the pilots flying during those missions, that video was from the USS Theodore Roosevelt's air wing. It was Ryan Graves. He's pretty well known now as somebody who's come out and he's found an organization I'm on the board of called the Americans for Safe Aerospace.

He's advocating for, with draft legislation out there, to instill reporting protocols for pilots and the FAA, commercial pilots and others by the FAA. Because currently there and pretty much the Navy, if you come out and say, hey, I saw these things, it could be a career killer. And I'll just one more point about that. So I couldn't say anything at the time. And by the way, so it was white from my computer. I had been read into SAPs and I knew, oh, okay, this probably was connected to a SAP that the ops officer did not know.

And the intelligence officer, one of the intelligence officers probably found that email and said, oh, shoot, and contacted whoever owned it, which was probably DIA. And they did their forensics and took everything off the system, whoever it was, I don't know. But I had been read into enough saps to know, oh, that probably happened, and that's why I didn't have it, and that's why no one's talking about it. But it bothered me, Sean, because now that I talked with Ryan, I realized, holy cow, lots of these things were in the airspace. They were interfering with operations, and they were a safety issue.

How many were in the airspace? I were interfering with operations and they were a safety issue. How many? I don't know how many, but there were at one of the gimbal recording was another one from that period. And you can hear one of the pilots say there's a whole fleet of them. And I saw, I don't know, but there were a lot and the pilots were seeing them all the time. And what gets me is that commanders like me, once admirals, who are in charge of the wellbeing,

responsible for the wellbeing and safety of their people and their forces, they were basically forced to turn a blind eye because of some overclassification issue and allow, make the pilots mitigate the safety threat on their own, which is feckless to me. We should be stepping up as flags as leaders and saying, all right, let's address this here. Let's talk about it at the four star meeting

and make sure we don't have to cancel exercise or see pilots fall out of the sky because of interactions with these things or avoidance maneuvers that again, so that's, that's why I've come out and been an advocate for what Ryan's doing. Nobody brought up that email.

No, no. Well, and that's the thing is that we all knew, okay, someone just touched a sap and they got rid of it and we can't talk about it. Think about that. So we could have had planes falling out of sky, but we're not gonna talk about it. Think about that. So we could have planes falling out of sky, but we're not gonna talk about it because of this over-classification.

There's a lot of unethical aspects, I think, of this whole UAP system that exists right now in the government. Man, that's terrifying. How high up does this go, do you think? These people pulling the strings saying, get rid of that, get that emailed out. Well, I don't know. Send out this disinformation.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know how high it is, but obviously, Aero's last report, the Aldermain Anomaly Resolution Office in the Pentagon, was so deliberately false that obviously, they had to approve it. It's got to be pretty high at the SECDEF, and I would say certainly the NSC level, probably ODNI, Avril Haines, I'm sure, had some decision to say, nope, we're not gonna talk about this. And same with Jake Sullivan, the NSC, I'm sure. Because there's so many people clamoring it for it right now,

and it's getting so much media visibility. So it had to be up at that level. I don't know about the president, but probably the NSC director. Man, so is an oceanographer and all the different things that you've done for the government, for the Navy, for the country, why are you focusing on underwater stuff? Yeah, well, first off, we know we see them in the water too. The last example that I saw was from the USS Omaha off Southern California, a well-known video

that Jeremy Corbell, one of the UAP media types has gotten out there. And so, and there's other examples too, classified examples I can't talk about, but confirmation that we see these things underwater. And I can tell a story about a submarine officer who came out to me too. But, so we know they're in the water.

And that's my thing. I've done a whole career of ocean science. And so it's what I know. And it's who my network is. And now I'm on two national bodies that advise on ocean research. And I'm trying to get UAP studies into their research priorities. One reports to the White House and one's within the National Academies. That's why.

It's what I know and I know they're in the water and we're never going to have a full understanding of what the nature of UAP unless we look in the water too. So that's what I can bring to bear on this whole discussion. How many encounters have we had of UAP UFO activity in the water too. So that's what I can bring to bear on this whole discussion. How many encounters have we had of UAP UFO activity in the water? So I don't know. I mean, there's a couple books out on it, and most of all of them, I think, really lack data. They're mostly anecdotal with interviews of people.

One of them is by a guy named Preston Dennett. And it's interesting because he looks at the hotspot phenomenon off Southern California. And then there's an older book by a guy named Carl Feint, who had something called, I think it was called UFOs and the Water. And he also just compiled a wide range of cases, just interviewed people. And so there's a lot. There's several hundred in those. And then Richard Dolan, who's a pretty well-known UAP researcher, he's finishing up a book,

and I've seen the draft. And he's got about 600 cases where he's looked at all the books and sources that go back from the 1700s. So I think there was a... There's some interesting cases in that book. But ultimately, it's a lot less than we've seen in the atmosphere because the ocean is not as transparent. But it's worth looking at again because there may be more going on than we've just, than

that amount we know to have existed. Let's talk about the Submariner. Yeah, this is a good story. So as I've come out, if you will, or I've been speaking out, and I am what I am. I have the scientific background. I was an authority on these topics of ocean science and exploration. People have looked to me and said, I bet if I tell him, he seems like a straight shooter, a credible guy, I bet if I tell him, he seems like a straight shooter, a credible guy, I

guess. And so a submariner came to me, and virtually, and he just said, hey, I was on a sub in the 80s. I'd like to talk to you about what I saw. OK, yeah, let's have a call. I got on a call with him. He was a nuclear submarine officer. Now he's an engineer, and I think for an energy company.

This guy is like most nuclear submariners I know, he is just the facts. He is by the book, very much that way in his personality. The story he shared with me was this. He's in the North Atlantic in the 80s, Cold War is hot, and their subs operating, I wouldn't say super deep, but it was very high sea state because of a storm, 40-foot waves, so they were below that. But even there, they were rocking. Subs can feel that wave action.

And so because it was so rough, it creates a lot of ambient noise. And in those conditions, it is really hard to passively detect another submarine. So they felt pretty secure. They weren't going to be detected by a Russian sub. And they probably weren't going to hear one either. And so he's on the watch and all of a sudden, they get a passive hit, a contact that's moving off the starboard at some range. I don't know the range, but then it paused and then started closing on them rapidly.

They call it constant bearing decreasing range. You don't want that. When you're a ship driver or a sub-driver, I drove ships, aircraft carriers, I was a deck watch officer, you know that's gonna be a collision. And they had, that was every feature that a Russian torpedo would have in terms of the constant bearing decreasing range

at a very rapid rate. And they were so convinced, he called the captain of the bridge, they set general quarters and they dived. And it kept on coming and it kept on coming. And they were hoping to get below some acoustic lens or whatever that wouldn't be able to find them and lose track. And it just kept coming.

And so they went as deep as crush depth, just above it. Crush depth is that depth that submarine will implode. That's a dangerous place to be on an older sub like this. They were convinced this was a Russian sub coming at them. And then at some range close, I don't know what, it paused and then slowly took station on their stern behind them and trail them for a while. So they're getting this passive acoustic hit of something doing this. And then after minutes, maybe, it just rapidly departed the scene.

And there was no explanation. The Russians didn't have technology like that. We didn't have technology like that. We didn't have technology like that. And again, to this day, you doesn't know. I want to get that data. The data is collected and archived at Johns Hopkins University. And I'm in the process of reinstating my clearance. And I want to look into that.

Wow. Yeah. Are there a lot of examples like this? So I don't know, but I have talked to one other submariner, nuclear submarine officer, who says that he's not seen that before, but when you go around the Navy and talk to other sonar techs, they say they do see these quite often. Really? Yeah.

And this guy is very credible. He's actually a reservist and his day job is he works in the Pentagon. All attracted to nuclear subs? I don't know, but this is an interesting thing. And I wrote a paper about this called Beneath the Surface. We may learn more about UAP if we look in the ocean. It's on the Seoul Foundation's website. And I write about that because we know,

and there's a book on this, that UAP seemed to be attracted or active around nuclear sites. Is it because that submarine had a nuclear reactor and had nuclear-armed missiles? And what about the Nimitz and the Theodore Roosevelt? Aircraft carriers, is it because they're nuclear powered? Maybe is that attracting them?

I don't know, but it's a very interesting correlation. What are some of the things that you're finding under the ocean, personally? Oh, well, so this is neat. The ocean's so interesting to me still. And so, for example, when I was with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration,

we pronounced it NOAA, that we had a program called the Ocean Exploration and Research Program with a dedicated ship and it had a deep diving ROV, remotely operated vehicle with high resolution cameras and other instruments. And we purposely go look for things. And every year we found new species, whether it be deep coral or new types of fish. And get this, this is how much we don't know about the ocean.

In 2020, I think it was, we had a fisheries biologist go down to Antarctica and discover a new species of killer whale that had never been seen. So this isn't like just some small weird microbe. There's all sorts of things we've never seen before. A new species of killer whales. Yeah. Yep.

One... Man. Yeah. Have you been to Antarctica? I've not. I've been in the Arctic. I've been in the Arctic on a sub. I've been up there on the ice camp that they have up there.

What's up there? The Arctic? Yeah. Well, okay. I was there because the US Navy every two years hosts, conducts an exercise called Ice X and it's to basically train, study some of the dynamics of ice and as well as the tactics of operating under the ice, which we need to refine when you look at what Russia is doing.

But there's a lot of things to discover too, again, on the seabed, new geologic features. There are, again, all sorts of sea life under the ice too. And yeah, I mean, we could talk about a million things about what's in the ocean. Let's go. Well, shoot. Let's do it. Here's something I was pretty proud of. So because we don't know so much about the ocean,

and here I was in the Trump administration, and I'm with an environmental science agency. So it was kind of a tricky place to be. He was not keen on major funding to science agencies. The White House proposed a lot of cuts to our budget. Congress always put the money back in. But we were looking for good ways to show leadership and advance the ocean that would appeal to his administration. And so one of the things I led was a national strategy to map and explore the ocean, the

US ocean, which is our exclusive economic zone. And the White House approved it, and we put together a plan, a team, and it's still being executed. And so we didn't even know only about 40% of the sea floor in the US had been mapped. And now we're getting near 50. And why that matters is, first of all, submarine navigation or navigation period ships, submarines too. We had two submarines.

One was the USS San Francisco in the early 2000s, and then later the USS Connecticut in the early 2020s. Both collide with undersea mountains, sea mounts, sustain major damage, hundreds of millions of dollars. In the San Francisco's case, one sailor was killed because of just 35 knots, boom, he sustained a head injury. That's how much we don't know about the ocean and why we need to do it. I even wrote an article about the fact that China is mapping and exploring the ocean heavily

in the Western Pacific. If they know the ocean better than us, we're going to have a hard time with them. Think about this, high ground warfare provides a tactical advantage, right? The ocean has a high ground too. If you know the acoustic properties and the seabed well, then you can use that to your advantage in predicting the acoustic and optical paths of sensors and avoid counter detection and maximize your ability to detect the adversary. You need to know the ocean, just like you need acoustic and optical paths of sensors and avoid counter detection and then maximize your ability to detect the adversary. You need to know the ocean just like you need to know terrain in your old line of work.

That's it. Getting a better feel for what we know, it matters for national security and it matters for a lot of cool science. We have some of the best managed fisheries in the world, in the U.S., especially in Alaska. And we need to understand the nature of the fish, where they are, they're moving into certain places. We need to understand what their habitat is like so we know where they'll be and we don't overfish them.

There's all sorts of reasons to map and explore the ocean. And those are just a few. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the things you've encountered? So there's some other interesting ocean things I've seen and done. And a lot of this is credit. I give credit to my wife, Karen, who was a Navy diver doing salvage. She was a diving officer.

She's recovered aircraft from the floor of the Mediterranean, the seafloor, and done some hard stuff. So she's my inspiration. And she's the reason. the Mediterranean, the seafloor, and done some hard stuff. She's my inspiration. And she's the reason, actually, I even speak up about UAP. I had no idea, I had no intention of doing it. And she just said, Tim, you know, you've done some things. You have a voice.

Why don't you do it? Why don't you go contact Avi? And so I give her that credit. But also because she was a former Navy diver, and we met getting our graduate degrees in oceanography at Scripps, that's just what we do now as a family. We do ocean stuff. And so I joined her. We did a week-long cage diving expedition off Guadalupe Island with great white sharks.

Oh, man. How was that? Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Well, no, there's so much to say about it. But the neat thing that I was proud of is it wasn't just some adventure tourism deal. I actually found the people who do it through my old agency, NOAA,

one of the women who worked at our fishery science center in San Diego, she had a nonprofit job doing marine scientific research investigating specifically great white sharks. This was part of a 20-year time series where the scientists had been photo identifying individuals in the population by the markings on the side of their body, because they're kind of dark on the top, blue, and then they're light white on the bottom. It's like a zebra. It's unique to each individual, the pattern. They had been photo IDing all the individuals.

It's a really important scientific endeavor because the apex predator is in a population. If you can understand their health at an individual level, you'll have a very good indicator of what the entire ecosystem is doing. We went down there, we took our GoPro data and they downloaded it and used our data, but it was also just extraordinary. These animals are as big as buses. Of course, they're like weapons with their teeth and they're interesting. I remember we had a day travel from Ensenada

and we had three days diving and a day travel back. And I remember thinking on the way out, ah, you know, we're gonna have three days in the water. I'm probably gonna get bored after the first day. I'm gonna see the same stuff all the time. No way. Now I know, because these animals are coming right up to you

and they're just doing what they do in the wild and they're majestic and beautiful. But now I know why bungee jumpers do what they do because I just wanted to get in the water constantly and see those things. They're never disappointing. Man. Yeah. That was a good show.

Was that pure pleasure or were you down there to study? I was there again for that nonprofit to help with their scientific study of the animals. Yeah. So that was, I had to pay for it, but it was a contribution to that science institute. Cool. Marine Conservation Science International is what they're called, MCSI. Interestingly, and I didn't know this back then, I wish I did, but that's the Guadalupe Island

off Baja California is a hotspot for UAP. All the fishermen around there, they see them all the time. Yeah, you Google that and you'll get tons of hits. So that was one. And then thankfully Karen and I now, we just, again, we take our girls, they're all scuba certified. We've been free diving with bull sharks off Florida.

We've been scuba diving with Caribbean reef sharks off in the Bahamas. And then just recently Galapagos Island and Hammerheads. Very cool, very cool. Which is great, yeah. So this is a, and our next trip is to Fiji and the Republic of Palau to do some diving. And we were in Palau last and saw some really

magnificent black tip reef sharks of close and personal. So that's what we do for fun. What are some of the things you've encountered as an oceanographer that you, you know, keep me up at night? Oh, keep me up at night. The nature of the ocean doesn't keep me up at night. It's our adversaries who want to of the ocean doesn't keep me up at night.

It's our adversaries who want to exploit the ocean to harm us or our allies. For example, Chinese illegal fishing is destroying economies all around the world, especially in Pacific Island countries. I wouldn't say it keeps me up at night, but it is a big issue that even our DOD, the Navy, is working to combat with the Coast Guard. There's a funny thing about that question, Sean. I served in the same administration as Secretary Mattis when he was the Secretary of Defense. Great guy.

That was one of the questions he answered early on as his tenure as SecDef. Someone said, what keeps you up at night? And he said, nothing keeps me up at night. I keep other people up at night. He's great. He's the best. Yeah.

I got to serve with some fine people in the Trump administration. Secretary Mattis was one. General John Kelly, the first Chief of Staff. No, he was Homeland Security Chief initially. Great person there. He was a mentor for a month-long course I took at the National Defense University. Great person. There were others too.

Well, what are you finding under there UAP-wise? UAP-wise in the ocean. So again, I only know the examples I've just shared. And then there's some classified examples I can't talk about that I know of. Basically, like you see in the atmosphere, you see large craft, different shapes. You see, reports have been different lighting configurations sometimes. Yes, it seems to be to the variety of the nature, it seems to be as diverse as it is up in the atmosphere. Yeah, I mean, that's what seems to come through.

And again, if we've seen so much through the published literature and then the documented accounts recently, then there may be, not just maybe the tip of the iceberg. What do you think these are? Yeah, right. Are they manmade? I don't know.

Well, first off, no. I don't think, I don't know. That's why we need to study these organizations I'm with supporting their research. But as this topic gets explored more and more, and I engage with people that have been read in or have somehow touched the programs, we have a very active discussion going on daily about this very question, what are they?

I mean, there's some possibilities. They could be from an extraterrestrial source. Again, we don't know the physics on how that could be. Some people have speculated an interdimensional origin, which I don't understand either. But again, since we really don't know all there is about physics, possibly, there's something there. And then there's a really interesting theory by, and I'll encourage your listeners to check it out.

There's an article in the debrief from early this year, 2024, by a guy named Bernardo Castrop. And it's a really well-written essay where he speculates that, well, all right, what's the most likely source? Well, if intergalactic travel is not possible, then it could be that these things originated before we evolved, before life as we know it evolved. So they think there's a period around 750 million years ago where, due to the recycling of the continents, if you will, that there's no fossil evidence for.

So there's a period a billion years ago or more that we just don't have any fossil evidence of. And he conjectures that possibly an advanced technology civilization evolved. And that's not a stretch when you think we're an advanced technology civilization, I think, kind of, and we've evolved, we're here now. So if you know we can do that, then go back even a billion years and perhaps that could have happened.

And when they saw things getting dicey because there's so many cataclysms that have happened, you look at the dinosaurs and the asteroid that wiped off a large portion of the earth. There have been other extinction events and then less cataclysmic but even severe like about 12,000 years ago, this climatic period called the Younger Dryas where the earth's temperature dropped a lot. You can see evidence of that in geology.

That was an event where a large part of the Earth's life was exterminated. So the Earth's pretty hostile. You look at the volcanoes in Iceland, you look at asteroid impacts of the past, and maybe this advanced technology civilization said, you know, we're out of here. We're gonna go create a habitat down deep or maybe on Mars or in the moon and just get somewhere more stable.

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Go to bubsnaturals.com, use the promo code Sean for 20% off, and let's get it going. So, it sounds like there's three discussions going on within the professionals, we'll call them. And so one of them is ancient technology slash civilization, next interdimensional and the next extraterrestrial. Yeah. Okay.

That's how I see it, the possibilities. Maybe there are more. I haven't thought of them. So let's, I'd like to dissect kind of each one of those, you know, with the ancient civilization stuff. I mean, what does that, at the end of this, I want to ask where you're leaning towards. But I mean, what is that, if there's a civilization in the earth, in the ocean, towards the earth's, you know, the center, I mean, what does that even look like? What do you think?

Well, right. No, we've mapped the surface of the seabed, again, not completely, so we don't even know. There are parts of the, is there underwater structures? We don't really know. And, or the deep below the geology as we know it, again, we don't know. But it's not a stretch to think it's possible based on the length this planet's been in existence.

What's unfortunate about this whole discussion we talked about a little earlier is it's so stigmatized that few people want to be open-minded and talk like we are right now of entertaining the possibility of an advanced technology civilization from either of those three origins. It's just not taken seriously. And I thank you for having me on because it is about time we do it. Cause we do see evidence of them all the time in the ocean and of course in the atmosphere. And you know of a Canadian USO encounter. Well, yeah, this is one of the earlier ones.

It's in the 60s, I think early 60s. And there's a great book about it called, Sweep Clear Five. And it refers to the name of this mine warfare exercise. The subtitle is NATO's Underwater UFO Encounter. It's a very interesting book because it's written by a researcher who interviewed these Canadian divers.

Now what happened is first off is there was a major UFO event in Canada, a place called Shag Harbor, Nova Scotia, in, gosh, I think the late 60s. I don't remember the date. And that's all over the web. But before that, there was another encounter where UFOs were seen to go into the water. And it happened that I think it coincided with a NATO exercise, and the ships all got vectored to go look for these things. And Canadian divers were interviewed and claimed to have seen these two underwater disks and

actual occupants outside the craft trying to repair it. So aliens. And they even said they captured video, but they don't know where the tapes are. Anyways, there's this book, Sweep Clear Five is all about it. And it's about the investigation into that. And that's the first well-documented USO case

that I know about. Wow, was there any description on what the beings? There was, and I think they were humanoid. I don't remember the details. They weren't human for sure, but they were human-like. Did they have equipment on? I don't know. It didn't seem like they did,

but maybe it was so technical that it didn't appear to be like equipment. I don't know. Man, so I mean, what do you think? If we're on this, we're going through three discussions and if it wasn't advanced civilization that's living under the surface of the earth, whether it's in the ocean or somewhere else, I mean,

how long, I mean, there's so many questions. I know, I don't know, but I do know this, and this is why I like the Galileo project, because Avi Loeb articulates this so well. Modern society doesn't appreciate how new to the scene we are in terms of everything, our behavior, and how we treat each other and technology. And so you have to think, it's just so possible

that either in this large universe or in a part of the universe we don't even know about, like I said, another dimension, that some advance or several, and actually that's the thing, Sean, is that from what I gather of all these eyewitness accounts that are out there and knowledge from credible sources that were in,

that know people in these programs, the UAP programs, crash retrieval programs, that they're different types. And I mean, in fact, it was very interesting too, just today, again, I mentioned Chris Mellon, he was a former assistant, DASD, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. So he was up there and he knows what he's talking about and he's been in this field for some time.

He, on his substap page, account, whatever you call it, today, April 23rd, he published an article and he had a screenshot of a signal discussion with someone who had known people in that crash retrieval program. He said that he was very credible, didn't want to let his name out, but the person acknowledged that there was an active crash retrieval program and that there was an Air Force gatekeeper at the SES level for it. There was this discussion that he published today.

He wrote a nice article about it, basically, and what's so good about Chris. He doesn't say what he doesn't know. He says what he knows. He doesn't speculate, and he doesn't reveal sources that don't want to be revealed. And so he said, here's the discussion we had. This person was senior in the government and I'm not going to reveal his name, but he said he was aware of these programs.

It wasn't read into him, but was aware and knew people who were. And so he just put that out there. Again, doing it because there's such an active disinformation campaign that that office arrow is a part of to discredit anybody who brings forth this information. And again, the highest level, the NSC, obviously, the ODNI, they don't want this information out. Now, it's worth talking about that for a little bit. Why am I coming out now if the government is doing the best thing and doesn't want the information out?

I think they're wrong on this case. And so do my colleagues like Chris and Lou Elizondo, that at some level, we should, yes, not let advanced technology come out to the public, because we don't want our adversaries getting the upper hand. Of course not. But the knowledge that we're being visited and can't secure our own water space and airspace, and that this could be something more of a global security nature, and it demands thoughtful public policy. And the public should have a part in that, that fact that we're being visited.

And it's something that every nation is dealing with. That's something I think just does not benefit us by trying to cover up. And in my personal opinion, the Arrow report was so inartful and flawed and full of errors that it makes me wonder, are we that clumsy and inefficient and ineffective in other counterintelligence endeavors? I sure hope not. I hope we're not failing that badly. We're trying to perform the same kind of activity regarding Chinese and Russian intelligence services. How many, I mean, are there a lot of countries that are digging into this? Yeah, there are.

Now, I don't know of all of them, but I've had, for example, I was just contacted by an Italian researcher who has, like me, decided to focus on the underwater UAP. He's been doing it for 20 years, perhaps, and was a colleague of this guy, Karl Fein, who wrote that original book, UFOs and the Water. There's that. This Seoul Foundation group has just brought on a European on their board. His name is Jonathan Berta. He's neat because he's a technology guy.

He's got his own company. Here's how his company got started. I think they do aerial drones. I think it was in France that they were seeing all these UAPs around their nuclear sites, and they contracted his company to fly drones to observe them. That's how he launched his company, and he's doing quite well. He's one of these open-minded people. He brings in an international perspective to the Seoul Foundation, in addition to Peter

Scafis, who's the other lead, and he's got a humanities background. I think it's a sociocultural anthropology. And then you have Gary Nolan, who's got a material science and biomedical expertise, and he brings that hard science to the Soul Foundation. Interesting, interesting. Back to, let's get back to the underwater stuff. I just, I wanna know every, I wanna,

what else are you seeing? I mean, with your current research, what are you currently working on under there? Well, I'm not an active investigator. I don't have a ship. I don't have the money to fund an expedition. Now, there's a couple things that I have been involved with. For example, the Galileo project.

This isn't too out there, but it's part of the whole phenomena, if you will, and feel that is worth pursuing. So Galileo is looking to discover remnants of ancient civilizations, extraterrestrial technology civilizations, or active ones that are in our world observing us. So he's setting up this- Strictly outside of Earth? Well, kind of. So he's got telescopes that are looking

at the near Earth atmosphere. And so wherever they come from. So it doesn't matter where they're origin, he just wants to get scientifically study them better. But here's something cool. So he studied the very first known interstellar object to impact the planet. So it was in a catalog of I think asteroids, asteroids or objects like that that I forgot who maintained

it. But basically, he got some data, looked at it. It had been gathered. I think it was collected on what appeared to be a meteorite, impact the Earth over the ocean off Papua New Guinea, the Bismarck Sea. And so he had data on this. And when he looked hard at the data, he realized that this thing, its impact was not like others. We know from space force data that it's outside the solar system.

It's an interstellar origin, just based on its trajectory. If you're an astronomer and astrophysicist, you can do the math and determine that based on how a meteorite comes in. We know this thing is interstellar in origin, one. Then he looked at how it impacted. You can, again, do the math through the energetics and everything that it had a much harder material strength. It disintegrated a lot later than others based on its speed and all these things.

So it was made of something harder, not the normal iron type of composite or whatever that the normal meteorites are made of. So it impacted from outside the solar system and it burned up a lot slower. It was made of something super hard. So what he did is he launched an expedition, got it funded, and he went and recovered fragments of that meteorite. They hit the ocean and then settled in the sea. And what happens when a meteorite does that,

it burns up and it creates these sort of little metallic droplets that just sort of fall into the sky. Heavier ones fall first and the other ones sort of just push along the trajectory and fall later. And so he went and mapped it all out. I gave him ocean data and atmospheric data so he could do a profile and figure out how far the stuff drifted in the air

and then drifted in the water based on currents. And he found it. Interestingly, I was able to connect him with the group who had done that before, to go search for meteorite fragments in the ocean. We had done this in, NOAA had done this with NASA in a thing called the National Marine Sanctuary off the Olympic Coast. And we basically built a magnetic sled with some magnets on it and towed along the water to pick up all the metallic particles and then had to take basically fine brush and get them all off it and separate them

from the mud and then study them. So Avi did that with his team and I didn't go out with him, but he was able to find material that was not of earthly origin. So his next expedition, which he hopes to lead in April 2025, he found the fine stuff. He thinks it could be technology, right? And so maybe some of the bigger things that didn't burn up are out there too. So he wouldn't know it because he had a sled that was designed only for fine particles. But his next expedition, he's gonna take an ROV

with a camera and he's gonna go along the sea floor and look for stuff. And he kind of jokes in a lot of his writings that maybe it'll actually have a keyboard on it and maybe there's gonna be a button to push. And he always asks people, if you found something from an extraterrestrial visitor and a gadget, like giving a caveman an iPhone, would you push a button on it?

And some people say, no, I wouldn't push the button. No way. And he says, I'm going to push the button. Wow. Wow. I can't wait to hear what that develops into. So back to the three things. We're talking about ancient civilizations you had mentioned

under the ocean and perhaps in the moon. Well, again, this is just speculating of what is possible. And that's what Bernardo's article was titled, something about what is the most likely scenario here on the origins of UAP? Those are three. They could have originated either from our solar system or, I mean, again, we think other planets are inhabitable, but that's for life as we know it. Certainly, there could be other life forms.

I told you about these extreme, they call them extremophiles, organisms on these hydrothermal vents in the ocean, super deep, high pressure, and they're weird and they're alien looking. And they've evolved to withstand the pressure and the temperature, very high temperature, hundreds of degrees, and toxic environments. So who's to say that life hasn't evolved,

maybe not our form of life, but somewhere else, either on a planet here in our solar system or elsewhere? Well, what are the theories with the moon? Well, I don't really. There's some chatter out there about potentially bases on the moon, like potentially undersea alien bases. I have no data on any of that, so I don't know. I'd love to talk to astronauts who've been there,

but I don't know. But it's worth looking into. I know we're gonna go back to the moon with Artemis. I would like to see NASA be more transparent with what maybe it's found. An example here, so when Congress directed the DOD to start looking at UAP, they established the ARO. NASA, and this is interesting to me, with Bill Nelson, former senator, now the administrator,

they decided to establish a UAP study team. What they were doing, obviously, is Congress was interested and they were NASA. If Congress is interested in UFOs and NASA is not doing anything, this is how you think when you're in charge of an agency, you better start doing something or else they're going to tell you how to do it. Bill Nelson decided to stand up a study team. They had a press release of their study. There was nothing there, there.

They talked about UAP and that they need to be studied, but they didn't share one bit of data or one example. All they did was talk about it. It was embarrassing, in my opinion. But that's kind of what's happening now is the government is trying or the government is coming out and saying things, but they're really not being forthright. Now one more thing, but there is some sign of interesting activity. Believe it or not, I was just contacted by the National Science Foundation. And they are gonna host a UAP communications workshop.

No kidding. And they're inviting really credible people. They invited me, they invited, not that I'm super credible, but I'm trying, and other people like, and I actually connected them to these professors in religious studies and the humanities that I know. Diana Pesulka, have you heard her?

Oh, you should try to interview her. She is fantastic. She is a religious studies professor at NC State, and she's written two books, American Cosmic and Encounters. You have to read those, Sean. What she does, like a lot of researchers, she just interviews people, but she's found people who have touched these crash retrieval programs.

They wish to remain anonymous, so she gives them pseudonyms. But that's really enlightening. And so she's found a NASA engineer who has been a part of these programs and goes through everything. In fact, the second book, they go to an area of the New Mexico desert and where crash retrievals have happened, and they find materials. She goes with one of the directors of the Soul Foundation, Gary Nolan. She gave him a pseudo name in his book, but he's now come out and acknowledged that he's

that person. Again, he wants to advance the scientific study of UAP. He's one of those people who have studied crash materials. He's looked at the material science. He's published a paper on it. In fact, if you go to the Soul Foundation website, all of our talks are online on YouTube, and he gives a talk about that paper. He studies these materials, and basically he's proved they're not natural.

They all had to be made with some kind of industrial process. And they're not native of this earth. They include components that have not been seen before, isotope ratios. They've never been seen before. So that's very interesting. What kind of stuff has he recovered? The stuff I've seen in his lab are just sort

of metallic fragments. Now, of course, out there, in what Dave Grush, in the hearing that I was attended last year, he, of course, has claimed that there's, I think, more than just fragments, but I don't know. Human biolo—or non-human biologics. That's right, that's right. What does that even mean? It's alien. Is that like a skin sample? No, that's right. What does that even mean? Alien. Is that like a skin sample?

No, I don't know. Ah, I don't know. Do you think Grush is, you think that's legit? He's totally legit, absolutely, 100%. I know people who, I don't know him, I've not met him, but I know people who do know him well and work with him. And I kind of know his pedigree. I also worked in the Navy as an oceanographer.

I was actually part of a larger information warfare community. I worked closely with the Office of Naval Intelligence and the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency where he was. In fact, I know the last five directors personally. He is what he says he is, 100%. I'm sure of everything he's... I also know how the government works. For example, he talks about these SAPs that he couldn't get access to, but he knew people

who were, and they were telling them about it, these special access programs. I've had that happen to me too. This is like the Wilson memo. Do you know about that? No, I don't. Okay. I've had that happen to me too. This is like the Wilson memo. Do you know about that? No, I don't. Okay. I never thought I'd be so well versed in UAP lore to someone like you, but here we go.

The Wilson memo is something, I forgot how it was leaked, but a physicist named Eric Davis, who was supposedly in the program, the UAP retrieval program, I don't know for sure, but he drafted a memo that got leaked. It was a memo recording his interview with Admiral Wilson, who had a top Intel job, and he was complaining that he heard about a UAP retrieval program in this memo, and this is the interview that he transcribed, Davis transcribed. He was complaining that he couldn't get access to it because he didn't have a need to know. When I read that, it reminded me of me because here I was a one star. My people were working with technology under a certain SAP and I wanted to learn about

that more so I could better make better decisions for my people. I had the SAP control officer say, no, no, no, sir. You don't have a need to know. I thought that was BS. Here I am. I'm responsible for their well-being. I got to make sure they have all they need. If they're using something, this is totally in my right

to, because I am responsible for their outcomes and their wellbeing, to know what they're working with. Oh no, what if it was hazardous to their health? Nope, nope, you don't need to know, sir. So that's what Rush was talking about, that these people running the crash retrieval program, they're leaving Congress in the dark, and they're not letting others with authority and responsibility know either.

That gets down to being illegal. I mean, it sounds like a rogue entity. Totally. Who would be running that? Exactly. That's not how our government's supposed to work. Not according to the Constitution as I know it. Is it government?

Well, I don't know. I don't know. But again, the most recent article from Chris Mellon today, I believe there is some Air Force oversight. I've also heard that there are contractors involved, big defense contractors, who of course have an interest in not letting that technology get out because they don't want to have to compete to use it. They want to have that exclusive right. So I believe that's going on. I don't know for sure.

Let's go into the interdimensional stuff. What do you know about that? So I don't know anything. You don't know anything? I really don't. I mean, this is all people theorizing. I know there's a lot of math out there that can characterize multiple dimensions.

String theory is one of them. And it's funny, cause Avi Loeb just thinks string theorists are worthless because he just doesn't, there's no evidence. He's about, okay, show me the data. If there are other dimensions, I want to see the data. And that's kind of like Grush. Grush, he said he's not, no one's seen the alien bodies yet

or, but now I have another story if you want to get into that. There's a well-known UAP legend out there on Nixon and Jackie Gleason. Do you know about that? Here I am again. I never thought it'd be such a wealth of UAP stories. Okay. So Jackie Gleason was friends with Nixon, and he was kind of a UFO nut for some reason.

And this has just come out. You can Google it. That there's some legend that before Nixon left office, he went with Gleason to an Air Force base in the South and he showed him what was supposed to be a UFO with aliens, like in some warehouse. Aliens that had perished in some kind of crash. Now, this is the legend, right?

Okay, interestingly, I'm fishing in Key West last year, and my guide was pretty interested in this topic, and he connected me to another fisherman who I had a nice call with, and he's been interviewed on this publicly. His name is Mark Croka, and Mark sees, has been seeing UAP in the skies off the keys

for over 10 years. And big lighted cylindrical type objects that are clearly not US aircraft. And he's actually seen jets from, I believe, one of the Florida Air Force Base down there sortie after these things, or scramble. So Mark and I talked about it, he's seen these often, and he shared with me about this Jackie Gleason thing,

because he said, when he was a kid, he worked as an assistant or janitor, janitor in this clubhouse in Florida that Jackie Gleason used to golf at and his wife. He met his wife after I think he passed, and she shared that story and stated it was 100% legit, that Gleason saw what he saw. It disturbed him a lot. He didn't eat for a week. He was so upset with his whole worldview had been changed. But this is, again, hearsay from a friend.

Fishermen are really good observers, by the way. This guy didn't have any reason to give me a story. He doesn't make his money off this. But Mark has that knowledge of that whole story. Interesting. I mean, there's a lot of speculation on whether these are built by the military industrial complex type companies,

or are they from foreign governments? Are they paranormal activity? What are your thoughts on all of that? Well, one of the experts on this field is Jacques Vallee. He's been researching UAP since the 60s. He's just the expert and I like his thinking. So I don't know, I'm not sure. I'm still new to this whole field, but I like his thinking. So I don't know, I'm not sure. I'm still new to this whole field,

but I like his thinking on it. He gives a really good talk at the Soul Foundation symposium. He gave one and it's online. And he just characterized the fact that they are real, people have real experiences. And Diana Pasocca does the same thing in her book, Encounters. She just chronicles all these experiences and people are having, a lot of people are

having really strange experiences. They are many see craft. There's a paranormal component to it with either telepathic communication or other things. And I mean, I don't dismiss any of it. This is what Jacques says. He says, all that can be said is there is just a massive diversity in the types of experiences people have. You have a one camp that call it, they're just focused on the nuts and bolts craft.

And then you have people that are looking at that more paranormal aspect of it. And that's what exists. It's sort of like a spectrum of experiences. And I don't dismiss any of it. To me, it's people are having experiences, they report it, they're credible people, and there's a lot of them.

And thus, my goal is to scientifically study it more and remove the stigma from it. How are you gonna remove the stigma from it. How are you going to remove the stigma? Shows like yours. This one right here. Getting it out there. Here's the reason that I'm out talking about this. One is more credible people stepping up will help remove that stigma. credible people stepping up will help remove that stigma. And then also what's interesting is over time, you'll see a generational shift in that there are a lot more young people open to this right now.

They think about it and they have more open minds. Interestingly there's a parallel here that I've talked about in some of my speeches. Diana Pesuca talks in her book, or she interviews a person named Ia Whiteley. She's also one of these researchers that's helping with the Soul Foundation effort to study UAP and the phenomena. Her expertise is psychology. She has made her living, if you will, by studying both cockpit psychology, if you will, and human factors, as well as space capsule human factors. She's advised the ESA, I believe, and she noticed that in the 50s, let's say after World War II, there was a big stigma for pilots to report safety issues in the cockpit because they would fear that if they couldn't handle something, they might get

a low rating and get a poor performance evaluation. It was the macho thing, the right stuff. No one's going to admit that they couldn't handle a certain thing. It was only after a lot of planes fell out of the sky and pilots died that safety measures started to be studied and reporting for incidents in the cockpit about safety issues became accepted. She studied this over time and it took 25 years for that change to occur, which is a professional generation. And I think that's what's happening now. Congress has gotten out. A lot of credible scientists have gotten out.

People like me, former national authorities, we're coming out to remove that stigma, to make this a credible scientific endeavor. I mean, even working with a group to establish a master's degree program in UAP studies. So that's happening. And then so, I think that's what's gonna remove the stigma and it's already occurring. What's that gonna entail? The master's degree on UAP studies? Yeah, well, really, I'd love to see a physics-based or engineering-based one, but that information

is not out there yet in terms of crash retrieval. This one's going to be a humanities-based one that looks at some of the cultural and anthropological and societal issues around UAP, which there are many. I mean, if we're being visited by other civilizations with huge technology powers, what does that mean for society and everything else that could be possible with that? I mean, do you think there's different kinds? Do you think that there is a possibility that some of these are kind of nuts and bolts types, crafts,

and some are maybe something to do with consciousness, maybe something to do with some type of spirituality type stuff. I mean, what are you thinking? I think the answer is yes, both. To both. I do. I do. Think about this.

So again, evolution. If we technology-wise walk our species forward 1,000, a million years, my gosh. I mean, what will we have? I told you earlier, I was the last Naval Academy class not to have a computer. I wrote papers on an actual typewriter. Now with one of these, I can access everything that humankind has ever discovered just with

a few clicks. So think about what about that? So with that in mind, it could be anything. So think about the evolution of both technology and the human brain and thought. So I accept our consciousness as what it is, but what about that evolving too? Think about that. A higher, a more highly evolved species will have a more highly evolved consciousness. We're not Neanderthals anymore.

We're something we think is higher. And I think that's true. Walk that 1,000, a million years. Then what are we gonna be like? So I think that's, and Diana Pasulka does a great job looking into that consciousness aspect of it. Because then you're also bordering, or you're really overlapping with religion now.

And that's what she is. She's a professor of religious studies. And get this, she's terrific. She has access to the Vatican archives because of her position as a professor of religious studies. And she has gone through and looked at all this church history. And she has, in her book, American Cosmic and Encounters, and now in recent talks, she has, she's pretty much deduced that these ascent narratives that exist in the

Bible and the church history have some UAP either connection or explanation. So Diana, in her book, Encounters and then American Cosmic and then some of her talks later, she's looked at some of the church's history and writings from biblical scholars and she has found that there are examples of apparitions or what they call ascent narratives that are indicative of actual UAP encounters. For example, there's this really famous story of Saint Francis of Assisi. I believe he was the one who cared for animals. And a lot of people wear pendants with him featured on that.

And the story is that he saw an angel and the angel somehow connected to him and he received the wounds of Christ in his hands. And there's paintings out there. There's one in the Louvre I just saw, and it shows the angel, and these beams are shooting down into his hands, and he's having that moment where he connects with Jesus Christ,

and maybe his messenger. And so Diana has gone to the Vatican archives and looks up the actual story, like not what you read about in church in a sermon, gone to the Vatican archives and looks up the actual story. Not what you read about in church in a sermon, but the Latin text. And this wasn't some like beautiful, beatific, whatever you say, beautiful angel giving his good graces

or her great graces to St. Francis. He's experiencing horrible wounds. He has pain and he even, even I think dies from them. He doesn't describe it as an angel. He describes it basically as what probably is a craft. This is radiation or something. So I don't know the exact nature of it, but she clearly in her study of this, has found instances of these visitations of beings, and they're not as angelic and nice

as we'd like to think they are. Wow. I mean, which way are you leaning? Do you lean more one way than the other? So again, I can just acknowledge that this is occurring. I don't know exactly what it all is. I'm open to any possibility and all of the above if that's really what's happening.

Again, I can speak to only what I know and what data I see. And that's why we need to keep moving forward with research and more universities coming on board and studying this. And me at my level, I want these, the National Academies who on one of their boards, as well as the White House, I'm on one of their advisory committees.

I want them to start taking this stuff seriously and put together the best scientists in the world to get at it. When it comes to kind of exploring underwater stuff and coming from inside the earth, I mean, where do we start to explore that? Well, this is what I think we should do. We already have a pretty active exploration effort

nationally with my former agency, NOAA, and they coordinate with others. For example, that one program I mentioned with a dedicated ship and with ROV, we also end up funding other groups. My friend, Robert Ballard, Discoverer of Titanic, he has his own group called the Ocean Exploration Trust and his own ship, and so NOAA funds him.

They fund a few others. And then you have universities doing some of this work too. And then you even have people in the private sector looking for oil and gas. I think what we need to do is harness that ongoing effort nationally and globally of exploring our ocean and ensuring that UAP, these underwater objects, are a part of the research targets and agenda. Right now, no one's looking for them really. No one considers them worthy of scientific study. When a ship goes out, they don't say, we're going to study plankton and maybe some undersea

vents and we're going to look forton and maybe some undersea vents, and we're going to look for UAP. They don't do that. In fact, here's a good example, and it's in this paper I wrote for the Soul Foundation. Richard Dolan in his book that's not yet been published, but I looked at the draft, he cites a study, pardon me, a story reported in a Navy log, the USS Maury, I think it was 1946, reported, and they were a bathymetric survey ship. They were using sonar to map the seafloor.

They had primitive sonar back then. They only had an echo sounder, which was like one beam looking down. Now we have a multi-beam, which is sort of like a fan. It can do a lot more mapping. And they reported their mapping this area in the Pacific, and they reported a large object. So what happened is all of a sudden they saw really shallow depth recordings for a long time,

maybe even over a football field size, probably. And then they kind of disappeared. And they thought, what the hell is that? Is that some kind of undersea mountain? And they went back and it didn't exist anymore. Now you can get reflections, sonar reflections from things like plankton, but not really hard echoes. So that was an example of them,

and they just basically threw the data out. So the idea would be, let's be open to that kind of stuff. And by the way, again, I know of classified data where you can see this stuff in imagery. So we should be using all the things we have overhead that looks at the ocean, like NASA has satellites that look at the ocean, so does NOAA. We should be taking everything we have, ships, and just, I guess, opening the aperture to not just study the earth and the ocean,

but to look for UAP too. Interesting, interesting. And that's what I wanna do at this national level with this thing called the Ocean Research Advisory Panel that advises the White House on ocean issues. I'm on it, and I wanna get UAP to be a national ocean research priority and put in directives like that. So the way it works here, the White House every year puts a

thing out called something like the FY whatever R&D priorities memo. And this year's and the ones when I was in the Trump administration, we'd have artificial intelligence on there. We had ocean exploration on there. And so we should, I want to get UAP in the ocean and atmosphere on that letter. Now, again, right now you need an administration that's going to buy off on that kind of policy. And right now, we're not seeing those signals. So interesting. So.

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Thank you for listening to The Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan show review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right, Tim, we're back from the break. We're just having a little discussion about what we need to know about what's in our water space and why, and so let's just pick it up.

That was a pretty interesting conversation. Let's pick it up there. Let's do it. So this is interesting. I talked about the science and technology aspect of what we could discover by looking into UAP more. That's just incredible what we could find. But then there's this maritime security aspect.

And think about this, okay. We know we're seeing objects like the USS Omaha saw an object go in the water, a UFO. I told you about these other incidents like in Canada. And then there's other reports and classified information I know of well of overhead imagery that have seen these things. But so if we things are basically roaming at will in our water space, what does that say

about our maritime security? So think about this, Navy submarines, they are incredibly vigilant in not interacting with the bottom when they can. I told you about those two collisions, and other submarines and objects. They have these detailed procedures they call water space management, whenever they're operating in a training area,

or an operational area, and they also have this protocol they call prevention of mutual interference, PMI, WSM PMI. And they are religious about it. Of course, because this will ruin your day. We've had submarine accidents in the past, like the Thresher and the Scorpion. We don't wanna do that.

Plus there are nuclear reactors on board. We don't need those things contaminating the water. All sorts of reasons to do our due diligence and not having submarines inadvertently hit something. But these things, and I mentioned that submariner who I talked about in his observation, they are roaming at will in our water space. If we don't even know the full extent of how they're operating in the water space, how are we going to do against the Chinese in the Western Pacific, which is a matter of

sooner rather than later in terms of taking Taiwan? how are we going to do against the Chinese in the Western Pacific, which is a matter of sooner rather than later in terms of taking Taiwan? Yeah, I think that's coming down the pipe really soon too. Yeah, absolutely is. I mean, you see what they're doing. They're preparing for a long haul. They're doing everything that you would expect them to do in terms of energy stockpiling, building coal plants, all these things that they need to be ready for if we impose sanctions against them, preventing energy supply and other trade issues like that. They're preparing for it. All the open source reports show it clearly. I don't know how we would prevent energy supply.

How would we prevent energy supply? They've got the lithium mines in Afghanistan that we've abandoned. They've got lithium mines all over Mexico. They've got pretty much of- Iranian oil. Yeah, Iranian oil, Russian coal. I mean, it seems like they've got that pretty much. They're going to do fine. Do you think any, let's say that does kick off.

Which I don't want. You think we're going to see any of this new technology become exposed if that were to kick off? That's interesting because highly likely. And here's what I, some people say, oh, if there was that kind of technology in the hands of the government or a contractor being UAP technology, we would have already seen it on the battlefield. I'd say, no, that may be partially valid. First of all, from what I understand, we've not been very good at reverse engineering.

We tried, but this is just from some sources. And the other aspect is that I don't know if we would have deployed it in what we've been involved with currently. That's what I was gonna bring up. I don't see- An application. What would we have deployed it up against?

Yeah, right, exactly. And how would it have helped? Yeah, no, certainly not in Iraq and Afghanistan, but China could be a different thing in terms of undersea capabilities. That's what's going to be very interesting. For us or for them, undersea capabilities? Both, because think about this. What if they have reverse engineered something that we don't know about?

Now, after I left the government, I didn't keep my clearance, so I don't know about. Now, after I left the government, I didn't keep my clearance, so I don't know of anything, but they have, from the time I left the Navy in 2017, to now, they've surged, they've become the largest Navy in the world. That's daunting. Yeah, yeah. In a very short time.

Yeah, I think it would be, I Yeah, I think it would be very interesting. I hope we don't go there, but if World War III kicks off or China, US, Russia type Iran war kicks off, I think we're going to see some new technologies get unveiled. Yeah. I think we're going to see some new technologies get unveiled. Yeah, yeah. That'll be, well, I know what's already happening and it's not necessarily being withheld and that's drone technology. So there's an interesting thing. And space.

And space, yeah, exactly. The thing, that's a field I'm steeped in and do for my consulting is ocean drone programs and that's really advanced in a huge way. And that's what's interesting is, you asked me earlier, okay, what should be done? Well, we need to explore more of our ocean. We need to consider UAP when we explore it. But and how are we going to do it? Well, we currently have ships, satellites, and we have a good amount of drones.

A lot of companies, a lot of government agencies like mine are using different types of ocean drones to monitor and measure ocean properties. That is just expanding rapidly. In fact, I just read about Australia getting a very large ocean, a UUV, uncrewed underwater vehicle that they were able to build rapidly and are going to be fielding. That's an area that's going to proliferate. That can be brought to bear in looking for more under CUAP and should be. It's less expensive, ship time is very costly, and the technology is rapidly advancing.

In fact, I wrote an article in the US Naval Institute proceedings about this. I said it was titled something like Ocean Drones, a Revolution in Ocean Robots or something. But it kind of chronicled the history of ocean uncrewed systems. We used some targets, I think, in the 20s, surface vessels that were uncrewed for aerial targets. Then I think in the 50s, University of Washington did the first uncrewed underwater vehicle or autonomous underwater vehicle to go into the Arctic ice. And then it just exploded after that.

And right now, and regarding China, the DOD has initiated this program called Replicator. And some of my companies that I work for are going after it. And they, to prevent Taiwan from being invaded, they want to flood the Western Pacific with thousands of what they call a tritable, all-domain autonomous systems. So kinetic things that can autonomously go and just saturate any kind of attempt to invade from the ocean. Wow. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. So that's just caused all of the industry in the US and elsewhere to start scaling up big time in terms of using autonomous systems. And I think these can all be employed for looking at the ocean too in a way that will make it, again, much more less opaque as it is and hard to understand.

I mean, you know, going back to seeing maybe some technologies become unveiled, I mean, I got a couple of questions. I didn't even know how to structure these, but so I'm just gonna fire them off randomly. But you had watched, you had mentioned that you had seen the UFO whistleblower series ahead. What did you think about the gentleman that was in Antarctica as a firefighter that was talking about that neutrino laser.

Yeah, yeah. What do you, I mean, you're the perfect person to ask about this. Well, unfortunately, I don't know. I wasn't tapped in or read into anything involving that. So I don't know. I don't have firsthand knowledge. But here's what I could tell you, certainly in the last few months, the more I'm learning about what has been covered up and developed, if you will, or both, I don't dismiss anything

now. I'm willing to take anything at its face value, really. Like your friend Michael Herrera, what he observed, that with some paramilitary force who from an agency we don't know, and with a UAP, et cetera, I would have dismissed that last year, but not now. The things I'm seeing in the way that we're just not acknowledging what we're doing. Well, the reason I'm asking about the neutrino laser in particular is weather. Weather manipulation.

We've seen all these things that used to be kind of conspiracy-ish are now kind of hitting the mainstream. Things like, I mean, I remember thinking it was crazy talk talking about chemtrails from airplanes. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, and people would tell me, oh, I think it's hormones being released. I think it's something to reflect the sunlight off the earth. Well, I mean, now a couple of weeks ago, we just saw here in Tennessee that we're banning chem trails. Oh, that's right. I saw that.

Over the state. There was the Hawaii wildfire stuff, which, you know, I don't know how true this stuff is either, or if it's complete BS, or if it's real, but it was, you know, there was this conspiracy that none of the blue roofs in Hawaii were burnt. Did you hear about this? Oh, I did not hear about that. Yep, yep.

And so, and every time one of these things hits, like the wildfires thing, that episode about the Antarctica laser, it always gets like this boost. And so the latest one was the, because he was saying that these lasers can cause earthquakes. Oh, okay, I missed that part of it. Wow, really? Yeah, he says that these lasers can cause earthquakes somehow.

And then the latest one that happened in Taiwan was like the latest boost where it got brought up again. And I have something to say about that. Earthquakes are not necessarily this laser. Yeah. What's it? There's two things I see from my experience in the government. One, they're covering stuff up and I get it, certain things we don't want adversaries to see, but either withholding things from Congress or in the public that should not

be withheld, that's wrong. That's why I'm speaking out. The other thing I see too is that sometimes it's not necessarily purposeful. Their government's just not necessarily super competent in areas. In the case with earthquakes, so I work with a number of real innovative cutting edge companies. One of them has found that if you monitor the ionosphere, they call it space weather, you monitor the ionosphere, what call it space weather, you monitor the ionosphere, what has been shown, and people have published on this, that before a big

earthquake when plates are starting to buckle, it's basically like a giant semiconductor. You got a lot of metal and energy, and it produces in the ionosphere a super big peak in a thing called total electron count. And so the ionosphere gets all energized. What is the ionosphere? Oh, it's an upper part of the atmosphere where you don't have... There's not really air. And you see, yeah, so you have this electromagnetic field that gets generated, and you can see it from space with certain sensors, and you can monitor it.

And in all these studies, before a big earthquake, you see these peaks in the atmosphere. I won't say it looks like the aurora borealis or Northern Lights, but it's like that, where it's visible in data. You're saying this before the earthquake? Before the earthquake. Okay, before the earthquake. Papers have been written. If anybody's interested, they should Google earthquake precursor INSPIRE, and it inspires

the acronym of a European Space Agency study on this phenomena. I saw this company that I'm working with called Precursor, and they have this capability with satellites and other sensors to monitor this and potentially produce an earthquake early warning capability. Earthquakes cause the amount of devastation on the order of a world war. Think about the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami. Why would we not look at every possible means to warn on earthquakes? I go to the US Geological Survey and I say, hey, how about funding some R&D on this or whatever, just have a meeting.

They immediately responded categorically, no. Our policy is that earthquakes cannot be predicted and of course, they define prediction of having some precision with respect to time and location and magnitude. I wanted to say, wait, wait, wait, wait. Don't sit there and look at your little narrow criteria. Open your mind and think maybe we can provide an early warning service. Hey, public, high probability of an earthquake is not zero today or something like that. They just refuse to look at it.

What I mean by that, my point is, is that there are a lot of what I think are straightforward ways we should be moving forward in certain areas, and the government is just stuck in its own little way of doing things. And this is just the case in point. So Japan is looking into it now, and we're going after Japan. And even California, with some of their messed up politics, at least Northern California is looking into possibly working with us and this company

to do some prototyping, if you will. Interesting, and the government just blew it off. Oh yeah. We don't want to warn anybody that there's an earthquake coming up. We're all seismologists, we're not going to think outside the box. Here's another analogy to that thinking is weather forecasting.

When you look at the damage of a hurricane also on the order of a war, it is important that we provide good predictions. And we do actually. Now we're really good at weather forecasting. We can days in advance, multiple days in advance, sometimes even a week, we can have a very accurate understanding of what a hurricane is gonna do. There's areas to improve but still Compared to the last 50 years. We're doing great. Why is that? Well, we became multidisciplinary we decided to take ocean observations and learn how they Heat up the atmosphere possibly like the the Gulf Stream, and contribute to things

like hurricane intensification. And then we also added some components about the ice. And so we started looking at the whole Earth as a system rather than just the weather or the atmosphere, knowing that's really what's going on. And so I've asked the USGS, why don't you think about the Earth system and not just your little rocks in the crust, but the whole thing, and they just refuse to do it. Man.

I mean, what do you know about weather manipulation? Yeah, that's something I have studied. They call it geoengineering, and it's physically possible. And even there's some studies being conducted right now because you have a lot of people that certainly these alarmists over climate change, which I don't dispute is occurring, but I think a lot of people are overreacting. They're looking into that like we might need to do it to keep some of these changes from occurring.

I'm currently not convinced it can be done, but I don't know if it's smart, because there's all sorts of feedback mechanisms in the atmosphere and the ocean, the Earth system that can occur. What if we do a little bit of that and then things go wild? I think we need to research the hell out of that a lot more with models before we do any type of experimentation. Isn't UAE currently conducting some type of weather manipulation right now, and they just flooded Dubai?

They were. That's right. That's right. So I have not been able to look at data behind that. So I only saw news reports. So I don't know if that was a cause and effect. So there certainly is a correlation. But that's my kind of point is we ought to be studying this a lot more so we could know

in advance if something like that will happen. And right now, I don't think we've done enough. Where I'm going with this is, do you think we could see any weather manipulation type weapons? Yeah, that's been studied. It has. Oh yeah.

What has been studied? Oh, the Air Force did this a while ago using weather modification as a weapon, which when you look at what a typhoon can do, that can certainly be an advantage in the Western Pacific with Taiwan. It's a roll of typhoon into an attempted Chinese invasion, and it'll be just like what happened to Japan when I think it was Kublai Khan tried to invade twice. And the kamikaze, the great win, tore through the armada and took out the Mongols.

Do you know about that? Man, I don't. Oh, this is my field of study. So I don't remember the year, but Japan was twice threatened with an invasion by the Mongols. I think one of the cons, I don't remember which one, and both times a typhoon rolled through the region. I think it was near maybe Okinawa. I don't know where, but it wiped them out.

They gave a name for that typhoon, the phenomena. They called it the great or the divine wind. That's what kamikaze means, divine wind. Interesting. Yeah, and also there's all sorts of history if you want to go into that, the environment and weather. Sir Francis Drake and the Spanish Armada, another storm wiped out the Spanish Armada when they

tried to invade England. He got very lucky with that one. Then the World War II, we caught the Germans off guard in Normandy because we had better weather forecasts. If you look at weather, it goes from west to east, and you want observations upwind. And all the observation networks that we had were in the US, Canada. And so the Allies had a good upwind observation network and the Germans didn't. And what happened is the Germans saw the forecast and thought there's no way they're going to

invade today. It's too rough. So actually it was, I think Rommel was in charge of that defending force and he went thought there's no way they're going to invade today. It's too rough. Rommel was in charge of that defending force, and he went to Paris to celebrate his wife's birthday. He wasn't even there. What happened is Eisenhower had planned for one day, June, it might have been, 4th, and the weather was going to be too bad, and they call it off.

He wasn't sure when they'd do it again because it was about the tides and the moon and the weather was going to be too bad, and they call it off, and he wasn't sure when they'd do it again, because it was about the tides and the moon and the obstacles and the beach that the UNI-TEES, your predecessors, had to remove. And then there was a weather window, and we realized it would be good on June 6th, a short time we could do it. And we knew that, and the Germans didn't,

and we caught them off guard. Wow. Big part of the invasion success story. Did not know that. Well, how long ago did we start looking into weather manipulation? Well, I don't remember the history exactly, but I know the Air Force did that after World War II. And I don't know too much of the science behind it because it seems to me that the scale would

be really large in terms of cost. And then again, there's so much uncertainty in the Earth system in terms of predicting it, that again, I think you just need to research the hell out of that before you do anything. Yeah. Do you think that we have done any weather manipulation before? I don't know. I don't know. I probably would know too if we had, so I really doubt it.

In my last job, I think I would have known. Okay. You know, another thing that's coming up and I'm hoping to get this gentleman on the show as well is these energy weapons. Directed energy weapons. Directed energy weapons. That's taking off for sure.

Yeah. It sounds Chris Miller, former Sukhdev, told me that we were really close to having the dome like Israel has. That's right. And there's another gentleman who developed these directed energy weapons, and they're starting to be employed all over the place. We're putting lasers. We put a laser on a ship, a destroyer, I believe. And yeah, in my mind, we haven't done that fast enough. Do you think where I'm going with this

is the retrieval program? Yeah. How are these things crashing? And do you think that maybe we might be, I mean, it seems, it seems, So here's an interesting thing. Maybe a little over, I mean. Here's what, the crash phenomenon is interesting Maybe a little over.

The crash phenomenon is interesting because some people think, oh, if they're so advanced, how do they mess up? There's a couple of ways to address that. One is, well, maybe statistically, they're maybe coming here so frequently that statistically, there might be some kind of component failure or it's going to happen, the law of averages, if you will. But that's one way. Another in Diana's book, Diana Pasilka encounters, she interviews this NASA engineer, I think he was a contractor, so not a federal employee,

and he calls them donations that possibly they're doing this on purpose to help advance our society or something, give us little breadcrumbs, if you will, technology breadcrumbs to assist. I don't know the veracity of that, but I just know that's what she puts in her books. That's an interesting aspect of it. Very interesting, very interesting. So we were talking about a underwater terrain feature off the coast of California that some may speculate there

may be an underwater UAP base there. What were you speaking of? Well, so this book I refer to Preston Dennett as the author. It's even in the title of something like USOs and alien undersea base or something. I don't remember the exact title, But yeah, so he interviewed all these eyewitnesses of different types of UAP activity in SoCal and And this has also appeared in a few shows one of them like UFO witness I believe with Ben Hansen where and a few others where they anchored off this feature

It looks like an undersea Mesa in Google Earth. It's off of Point Mugu. In Google Earth, the way it's rendered is it does look a little bit artificial or manmade. So they and him and Preston Dennett and his book and these shows, they've all speculated on it. Look at its structure. It can't be natural.

And the reality is you can go to the US Geological Survey's data and find it online. And then you can look at the real feature and it is entirely natural. It's not as weird as it looks in Google Earth because Google Earth does some filtering. In fact, there's also some talk in different areas around the world. One is in Antarctica, off Antarctica in the Southern Ocean, that have these very linear features in Google Earth. They kind of stand out. Some people have thought, oh my gosh, that's alien infrastructure. I just have to dismiss all that because you just have to understand the source of the

data. In Google Earth, for example, they merged different data sets. Then they might filter out the resolution of one feature that might have a higher resolution and not another. For example, those linear features are basically just the fact that most of that ocean area has been under sampled. There might just be a few soundings in a wide area, but one ship collected high resolution data over a track.

So they'll have that in the Google Earth and you'll see it nice and resolved, and then it'll be kind of smoothed out. So it makes it look like a manmade feature and it's just the data. That's it. Yeah, but going back to this undersea alien base, this is where I want to weave in some of this disinformation by who, the government possibly, I don't know,

but there was a point in time this year where I was having some public discussions about the possibility of, again, of USOs interacting with the seabed and wanting to then go and do bathymetric surveys to search for those types of interactions. I even found a feature off SoCal that might just be that. I can't explain it. It's part of this kind of ridge, underwater ridge, that a section has been carved out of it as it appears. It's been moved horizontally two kilometers. It's a big clump of rocks. Normally, when you get these things like

landslides in the ocean, they're called turbidity flows, it's like an avalanche. They just sort of slough off down the terrain feature. But this thing looked like it was carved out. And I took it to some geologist friends. I don't know how that happened. And so I want to get an ROV on that feature and check it out. And I'm working on that. But then there's this other aspect of the one that the people I told you I don't think

were actually accurate in calling this other feature. I think it's called Sycamore Null is the name. It was an undersea base and I don't think it was. Well, weirdly, when I started talking out about this in Google Earth, the feature was filtered out entirely, the sycamore and all. Now you can't even see it. It's plain as day in the USGS database. Why would someone go to Google Earth and have that feature removed?

Who did that? Why? I don't know. But again, the more I learn about our government's active disinformation campaign, and the story of that guy, Paul Benowitz, anything's possible now. Wow, yeah, I'm with you. Do you have any other insight into government disinformation?

Any other examples? Gosh, there's probably many, but I can't think of any right now. I'm sure there are. I'm just curious. I just want to pick your brain. Yeah. I'll be clear again. It's worth me saying this.

I am okay with us not acknowledging really important programs for national security. Unacknowledged programs are good for our nation. I just think that the fact that we're not letting the public and Congress know that we're being visited by entities whose intentions we don't understand, characteristics and nature we don't understand, that genie's out of the bottle. I think you know the Schumer Amendment. This is what was drafted last year and was almost passed, including words like technology of unknown origin, non-human intelligence, and what was the UAP, all of those are in that bill multiple times,

that draft. And the fact that that got into draft legislation means it's there, there's something there, there. And we know that because I know some of the people who briefed the Hill. And even though it wasn't passed in the final NDA, most of that stuff was tripped out. Like I said, it's out there now. We have to reconcile this and really inform our public to do the right thing for our nation's security. Do you think we've had communications with non-human intelligence? I'm sure of it.

I'm sure of it. Just based on all this data and everything we're talking about, they're here. What do you think those communications would look like? I don't know. I don't know. But I mean, actually, if you look at Diana Pasilka's book again, Encounters, this one former NASA engineer, This one former NASA engineer, he called the crashes that were retrieved donations, that's a form of communication right there. I don't know the nature of the communication and who was doing the communicating, but I am pretty sure from what I've seen from my sources, very sure, highly, that that's occurred. Now with who?

Parts of the government or just individuals? And actually, by the way, if you just, when you say we, if you mean the US government, yeah. But as individuals, there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of eyewitnesses who feel they've been communicated to. Mm-hmm. in different ways. Are you familiar with Chris Bledsoe?

Yeah, I am. What do you think about that? Well, I'm not qualified comment on any of the validity of what he reports, but he's not alone in what he's reported. There's many people who have had encounters. Diana's book, second book is called Encounters, and that's the very topic. So, many people have been communicated to.

And it's interesting, and I got to say this too. If you look at the diversity of life on this planet, I mean, you just got to dive on a coral reef for good and sake, then why would there not be a diversity of higher order, non-human intelligence in the universe? It just makes a lot of sense. And if that's the case, like look at all of our different nations that have different cultures, and some get along and some don't.

It's not a stretch to think there were a variety of higher order non-human intelligences with different agendas. Some might be malevolent, some might be benevolent, who knows, or just totally neutral. That just is more and more likely as the phenomena, I think, is better understood. Wow. Well, Tim, what's next for you?

I know you got a book on leadership coming up that's gonna be released at the end of the year. I do, I do. Well, thanks for asking about it. So from my time in the Navy, and you know, you served as a SEAL, I was blessed to be given some great role models in leadership.

And then I was given opportunities to lead, and I came to this agency, NOAA, with that. And this is a big part of what I do now. I mentor everybody who asks me to do it. And I want to bring up that next generation. People were so good to me in my career. They carried me along the way. It's just the right thing to do to pay forward what was done for me.

And my book is written for that purpose, to provide my leadership examples and lessons, if you will, from what I learned in the Navy and applied at NOAA, scientific agency. And it was, again, I told you it was kind of a tough time because we always were getting our budget cut and people wanted, they wanted some inspiration and thankfully I had a scientific degree and they liked that.

I just talk about the examples of trying to help people in tough times when there's uncertainty and so I provide a lot of stories. The best leadership books to me are telling stories. I think Bill McRaven, Admiral McRaven's books are fantastic. They do that. I don't like preachy books that are pedantic and can just tell you how to be. I don't need to be told how to be. I'm kind of at the tail end of my career.

What I want to do is just share insights. And so I have some fun stories to relate. One of them is like, have you ever heard of Miranda Cosgrove? I haven't. She was the star of the Nickelodeon show, iCarly. And, and so she's also at one point was the highest paid child actress ever or something. And so I know of her because my daughter, youngest daughter had watched her show 24 seven,

it seemed like while she was growing up and I never really liked the show because the character was really snotty and precocious. But I had the opportunity to represent my agency at an event on the hill, a big event recognizing this thing that we were in charge of called the Marine Mammal Protection Act. We were in, one of our jobs was to help protect whales,

save the whales. And so I wanted to go to this event and represent us in a good way. That was my job, to be the face, to be a champion for what we did. And I went to go and I met with a couple of congressmen and then I met with her and I remember thinking, I wasn't sure I wanted to meet her

because her character is so awful, but it turns out she's the nicest person ever and she was very sweet and we got a nice picture together and in back of us was a big picture of a humpback whale and she signed it and wrote love Miranda and what's cool is I got this frame picture and I gave it to my daughter. And now it's still on her bookshelf.

It's like the centerpiece. So she didn't give me any respect for being an admiral or a combat veteran, but now that I was friends with iCarly, I was her hero. Congratulations. Yeah, how about that? That's awesome. But that wasn't really a leadership example per se. I mean, I was trying hero. Congratulations. Yeah, how about that? That's awesome. But that wasn't really a leadership example per se.

I was trying to represent us. But there was another example I might share with you that you might enjoy just because it's funny. I was in the Navy. I had a chance to represent the nation basically at a big conference. This was during the Obama administration and I was a one star. And the conference was called the Our Ocean Conference and the State Department hosted it.

It was downtown. And I got to lead a panel on illegal fishing. I talked about that earlier. What a problem it was back then in 2016. It's even worse now with China is again the main culprit. Here was the sequence of events, and this was a big event, foreign ministers, 500 people in the big State Department auditorium, giant screens, speaker, podium. The first person to get up and talk was then Secretary of State John Kerry.

He talks. The second person to talk was President Obama. He gets in talks. Actually, he's a good speaker. Again, I'm not a fan of his politics, but he's a very charismatic speaker. And then the next person to get up and talk was Leo DiCaprio, Leonardo.

And it's funny because here he is, he's a great actor. And when he got up there and gave a speech on the ocean conservation work he was doing, he just read it. I mean, there was no emotion. Obama was just like he is. And then Leo, this actor, just read it line by line. It was the driest, dullest thing I ever seen.

I was so disappointed. So was my aide, actually, but she still got his autograph. The next person to speak was me. So I had this lineup I got to follow. Holy crap. So what I did is I got up there, and again, big screen of me, and I'm in my uniform, and everybody's there listening to me. And I thought, okay, how am I going to keep these people's attention after those predecessors

speaking? And so I thought up a story, and I made this fictitious story. And I said, okay, everybody, great to be here. Thank you. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm a bit intimidated having to follow those all-stars. So in thinking about my opening remarks, I decided to ask my wife, who was an oceanographer like me, and this is the Our Oceans Conference, I decided to ask my wife, who was an oceanographer like me, and this is the Our Oceans Conference, I decided to ask Karen, okay, what am I going

to say to keep these people's attention? She said, well, Tim, you might want to share with them this, that really, based on all your military service, and by the way, Karen's favorite movie, Titanic, favorite actor, Leonardo DiCaprio, I said, she said, well, let's just point out to everybody that the only difference between you and him is that when you were in the Navy, none of your ships ever sank.

And everyone kind of got the Titanic link, and they not only started laughing, they gave me a round of applause. Man, that's a good one. So a lot of leadership, yeah, well, there you go. It takes a while to sink in. But a lot of leadership is that kind of thing where you kind of have to diffuse the tension

and you have to go big. You kind of have to go on the big stage and represent your people and don't be afraid to do that. And people, especially in a big organization, they want to see their leaders step up and show well. And so I have some stories of my trying to do that. I don't know if that happened. We'll see, it's up to the readers to find out.

Well, when does that come out? It comes out, well, I'm going to submit it to a publisher in May and we'll see how it's up to the readers to find out. Well, when does that come out? It comes out, well, I'm going to submit it to a publisher in May, and we'll see how long the editing takes, but I would bet no later than early next year. And again, because it was a little shaky, it's called Holding Fast in Heavy Seas, Leading America's Top Ocean Agency in Turbulent Times. We'll see where it goes. Well, I can't wait to get a copy of that, leading America's top ocean agency in turbulent times.

We'll see where it goes. Well, I can't wait to get a copy of that. And I just, I want to wish you the best of luck. And when that does come out, maybe we'll reconnect again. Hey, I'm up for a part two or three or what have you. Perfect. Thank you, Sean. Well, Tim, I really appreciate your time today

and coming in and having this conversation with us about UAPs and underwater stuff. And always, it's just always fascinating stuff to talk about. And I really appreciate it. Wish you the best of luck. Thank you, Sean. It's great to be here. The Bigger Pockets portfolio of podcasts are worthy of your investment.

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