Shawn Ryan Show - #198 Blerim Skoro - CIA & FBI Asset / Al-Qaeda Infiltrator

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Blerim Skoro is a Kosovo-born former CIA operative whose life took a dramatic turn after deserting the Yugoslav army in the 1990s. Arriving in New York as an asylum seeker, Skoro’s journey led him from a drug trafficking conviction to becoming a key informant for the FBI and CIA post-9/11. Posing as a radicalized Islamist, he infiltrated al-Qaeda networks in the Balkans, Middle East, and Pakistan, providing critical intelligence. His covert work ended after a 2010 shooting in Macedonia, when the CIA severed ties, leaving him with minimal compensation. Facing deportation in 2016, Skoro’s story, detailed in the documentary The Accidental Spy, highlights the perils of espionage and abandonment by his handlers. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: ⁠https://www.tryarmra.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.identityguard.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.betterhelp.com/srs⁠ This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Give online therapy a try at ⁠betterhelp.com/srs⁠ and get on your way to being your best self. ⁠https://www.blackbuffalo.com⁠ ⁠https://www.boncharge.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.meetfabric.com/shawn⁠ ⁠https://www.shawnlikesgold.com⁠ ⁠https://www.helixsleep.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.hillsdale.edu/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.patriotmobile.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://www.rocketmoney.com/srs Blerim Skoro Links: Check out the documentary The Accidental Spy coming soon!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2xOkWvXkIQ (Film trailer) For sales or screening queries, please contact the film's producer, Johnny Howorth [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale, expertise, and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. We're going to come to the points how I was offered from ISIS to become leader of ISIS. So, September 11, I'm in a cell with one of the terrorists. The first flight hit, he jumps from the bugging band and happy. This is from my leader.

Now I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a prison or not. I see two guys coming down and they pull the gun, shot me four times, not once. They taught you how to make bombs. Absolutely. What kind of bombs? Blair M. Scoro, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Honored to be in your show. Honored to have you.

Thank you. Ben, you've got a hell of a life story growing up in Kosovo, coming in, being recruited by the CIA as an asset, infiltrating Al Qaeda, an assassination attempt. I mean, this is going to be a really good interview. Really good interview. Yes, it is going to be good. And your story is so interesting, they're doing a documentary about you. Yes.

When's that coming out? Hopefully, we're planning soon. I don't have too much control over that. It's people involved, but it's going to come soon. Do you know where it's going to go? We are guest in a May 21st to May 26 in California for six days. And after that, I will find out what's going to be the next step. But I am in California in Hollywood from May 21st to May 26.

Congratulations. Thank you very much. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Well, everybody starts off with a introduction here. May 21st to May 26th. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Well, everybody starts off with a introduction here. So here we go.

Bluram Skoro, Kosovan Albanian immigrant and former Yugoslav army soldier who deserted to escape ethnic persecution during the Kosovo war, turned to crime to save your family from genocide, smuggling drugs to fund their escape from Kosovo, only turned to crime to save your family from genocide, smuggling drugs to fund their escape from Kosovo only to face an eight-year prison sentence in 2000, then became a CIA asset who infiltrated Al-Qaeda after 9-11, all for a chance to reunite with your American-born wife and daughters. You survived an assassination attempt in 2010 while serving as a CIA informant, a husband and a father who won a landmark immigration case in 2022 and now you drive a cab in New York City. Your story is the subject of a new documentary called The Accidental

Spy which hopefully comes out in May. So a couple things to knock out here real quick. We have a Patreon account and we've grown quite the community there. We actually, we just took all their names. We're building a new studio. It's about three and a half times the size of this. We took all 28,000 people who have ever been a Patreon member and supported us and we just put that on the wall inside and the whole studio will be built around it. But one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. A question, excuse me.

So this is from Tin Dog. Do you consider yourself a patriot of the US or a subversive because of the betrayal? Where is your head at today? I am 100% American patriot. I thought you would say that. Thought you would say that. And I'm proud to be that. Good, good.

Well, we're proud to have you. Thank you. We're proud to have you. So, quick answer. Well, we're proud to have you. Thank you. We're proud to have you. So, quick answer. But, and then lastly, you watch the show. So you know everybody gets a gift. Thank you very much, I appreciate it. Vigilance Elite Gummy Bears.

Yes, thank you. Eagle in all 50 states, there you go. But this is gonna be a heavy interview and I hope we go down some rabbit holes. I mean, just since you've been here, you brought up the fact that something about uranium coming out of Russia. I definitely want to dive into that and some of your outlook on Syria that we just discussed off camera.

But let's start with life in Kosovo. So you're born in 1971 in Kosovo during a time of ethnic tension under Yugoslav rule I Was Obligatory service in Yugoslav army What was the worst war ever existed in Balkans? I What was the worst war ever existed in Balkans? I know you've been seeing a lot and a lot of the viewers and a lot of the guests But I saw also very bad and a lot. I was in a group with one of the most dangerous criminal

Rajnatovich known aka Arkhan Wow And I see I witnesses with my own eyes, behaving, killing, rape, you name it. All of it. And I survived. How young were you when you started witnessing those things? I tell you, my 20 years birthday was in the military.

So I start 19 years old. So you started seeing beheadings, rapes, all these kind of things as a 19 year old kid? As a 20 year old kid. Yes. What was the first time you saw a beheading? I didn't believe it. First I thought it's like something you watch in the movie. I saw a woman getting raped from those paramilitary groups of Arkhan.

And there was a Croatians. I was in the Yugoslav army. And to me was, I didn't believe because when we called for duty, we called for duty to serve the country against enemy outside, not inside of the own people. So Croats, that time when I was serving, it was still Yugoslavia, which I started my service in March 20, 1991. And I was, you know, serving. Even that time Albanians from Kosovo, we had no rights. We were considered like second-class citizens. Because history of ourselves, Kosovo used to be always part of Albania. Because the communism dictator, it broke up and Yugoslavia took over my country. But the history is always there. It's black and white. We cannot change it. Some people may like, some people don't like, but Kosovo was part of the Albania.

So we start this uprise to be separated from Yugoslavia, but we couldn't do it. We always had a lot of issues and stuff, and we couldn't do it. Then I was called in March 1991, and I finished three months of training, which is in the beginning, it was eight weeks if I don't make mistake, and I started war in Slovenia. I was in a training camp in one of the cities of Yugoslavia, a city called Šabac. It's very close to the Croatian border. That's where I started my military training for war. That's a little different than regular training. That's how I came out to see one of the worst criminal Rajnatovich Arkhan. And there was volunteers. I was regular military. And we started those training and stuff. And one time, I never talked in my life.

CIA know this part, but my family of course knows. When we was in the training, you have some pictures we can demonstrate if you want later in the camp. It's pictures in the camp. I was ordered, it was stolen weapons in that camp from those volunteers. And when we say volunteers, it's two different groups. I was in regular military and there was those Chetniks volunteers, those they're butchering people, war men, raping, those with a group of Rajnath of each Arkan and since the military

officers saw me like I was little kind of skilled soldier they put me to be security not to allow nobody to move in a base and group of six or seven of them they tried to sneak in and I tell them you cannot go in stop and they don't want to stop. And then second time, because that's how it was our rules, you ask them one time to stop. If they don't stop, the second time you pull the gun, you put the bullet in the chamber and you're ready to shoot.

And they don't want to stop. That's first time in my life I shoot in a people. That was June or July of 1991 and I was age 20 I never talked in the no media this part of the story first time in my life but when I said I didn't talk CIA knew what everything so when you come to I did a polygraph test to the CIA, but we're not gonna change the subject where it's beginning. And so you shot in a group of six or seven volunteers of the Chetniks, the worst Chetniks.

You have the picture. I did send it to you guys, the picture. I shot in them with AK-47 like nothing. Like first time in my life shooting to the people was that in age 20. Did you kill him? I cannot say that if I killed but they don't want to say it but I know everybody was laying down in the ground nobody was moving but I pulled the trigger and I know I'm a sharp shooter. I don't miss easy.

I'm very good in a shooting so maybe one of them went down, but definitely I did shot in a group of them. And then that's how I become like very honored to the Yugoslav military. I created trust. And then we still continue in a training camp in a city shop, but exactly I will.

You didn't go to make sure they were dead or anything? No, I cannot. You're not allowed because the officers come and escort me right away. And they took them out and we're not allowed, you know, it's a strict rules. If you shoot, then they have to escort you, keep you in a safe place for a couple of days. And I was given a pistol extra from one of the officers in case he said, if you get problem with one gun, you have an extra spare gun. So he kind of liked me and he gave me his personal gun and I kept for a couple of weeks

or a month. Wow. Did that bother you at age 20 to potentially kill? Honestly, I feel very great because I knew that I was shooting in Serbians and we consider them enemy of my country, enemy of my people. For example, I didn't talk too much from all these 35 years about this. I left because, you know, sometimes legacy is good to live in the end of the story of your life. But my family knows very well the story. My kids know very well. And it's 100% true.

And I communicate after 35 years with officers who helped me 35 years ago. I have communicated just recently, couple of months ago. No kidding, I still remember it. They are retired in a former Yugoslav military, and they said, we was proud what you did that time. And what did you call them? Did you call them Chechens? No, it was a Yugoslav officer, captain first class.

It was regular officers in Yugoslav military. So that's Serbians, Chetniks. So when I shot, I shot in the Chetniks. So this was Yugoslav regular Yugoslav military. So it's a little too different. My officer didn't like them because he knew they are criminals. So he liked us. So he liked the regular military, but he didn't like the volunteers.

Because volunteers are the ones who commit the genocide. Wow. And what about the beheadings and the rapes? Who did you witness? I witnessed those volunteers, Chetniks, did to the Croats. So I witnessed a woman got, I know one part, for example, it was a woman didn't have a 12 years child, kids. She had a baby, it was a nine month or 10 month old. They killed the baby in front of me and the rest of the soldiers and they raped the lady and then they

killed the lady too So I witnessed that it was somewhere in August of 1991. I was present myself and then there was another story former Yugoslav military guy finished his service and he came to Visit his family in city Vukovar. I was one of the most visit his family in city Vukovar. It was one of the most dangerous wars in the city Vukovar. So he came in that to visit his family because he finished his service. When they found out he came over there they killed his father and they killed the former

soldier who served in Yugoslav military and they shot him from the behind. They execute him, they kill his father first and then execute him. I witnessed that too. And then another part, this Chetniks, you have the pictures, they throw hand grenades, they put a woman and kids in one of the basement. And I remember family, last name Chutura, I helped them. They throw hand grenades in the basement and me and one of my officers, he's originally from Bosnia, Bosnia-Hercegovina, but it was regular military. He said it was around 2 a.m. He said, let's go,

we hear the noise, they're asking for help. We want in a basement What we saw in that basement all? Murder killed woman and kids and I I want in and it was a little slippery And I say to the officer you have any match or anything because it's slippery and my foot was inside of the baby's body right inside at age 20. And it was an old lady over there calling for help in a Croatian, uh, pomogni me pomogni me. And I went and took the lady.

She was all butcher from hand grenades. I took her out less than 10, 15 minutes. She passed away in my hand. I tried to help her. And then after like start seeing all this, then you get used to it's a war, you know, of course you young in age, but when you see all this thing, then it becomes like, it's a normal, you know, you're in a war, war you have to do, you have to defend yourself, protect know, you know war, war you have to do,

you have to defend yourself, protect yourself, you not to get killed. And we did the best for me, for example, we never shoot innocent civilians. Even I was more poor Croats, I was more able, dreaming to help Croats because we are more close with Croats than Serbs. Serbs is Chetniks who are allied with Russia and we consider all this enemy.

So the Serbs and the Chetniks are the same? Are the same, yes. Chetniks are the base of them, the more fanatics, like we have Islamic radical al-Qaeda and stuff, so Chetniks are in Serbia like that. So if we compare with al-Qaeda, so Chetniks are like al-Qaeda. And they were doing this to your people? Not to my people, to Croats. Then after a little while when they start war in Kosovo, they was doing to my people. But first this was 1991 and in to my people was 96, 97, 98, 99. So in 91, I was in a Yugoslav military.

Geez. How common was this? Look, it was not unusual. Like from my generation, like even when I've given interview before in like short interview in English, one of the newspaper, I see people who I grew up, they don't know me much because we was young, 15, 16 years, and I don't talk about stories like that. It's not normal for me to talk, you know, because like one time I had nightmares, I couldn't sleep for a little while because when I start talking about past what I saw, you have a trouble sleeping, you know, and I never want my kids to know these kind of stories because I want my kids to grow up to love

people, not to hate, because if you tell your child what you've been through then they're gonna have a bad feeling thinking look my father what he went through you know I want to hate those people too so I don't want to give my kids idea to hate anybody I want to my kids they are born and raised in the US. I want to be free, not to be having hate in their mind. Because when you start having hate, you have no space to love people. So I want to be educated, extremely free and good. Not to have ideas of the wars and murders and death. So I want to be very calm and educated and civilized. Wow, there's not a lot of people that think like that. No.

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That time when I was in Yugoslavia, you must serve. There was no choice because I couldn't have no passport. I couldn't leave the country. So it was a complete dictator. You know, you must between age 18 and 20, at age 18 you have to go in a recruiting center for four or five days. So if you capable to serve. So I was in a recruiting center. I was 18 years old. And then at age 19, they sent me the letter, I have to serve the country. And I took that responsibility, then I went and served the country.

I thought, you know, I'm serving a normal Yugoslavian country. It's not like I'm going to be part of the committed genocide. It was a clear genocide. Nothing, it's no secrets. It's, I passed that situation. I was there until October 13 when the complete Croatian city Vukovar collapsed. And I say it, I repeat it again.

Like I grew up with the people, they didn't even believe. When they heard a little bit the story, they said, no, it's not that. But trust me, I passed a very ruthless war. Look, I've been in Afghanistan I've been in our conscious Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Jordan and all these countries. I saw the wars I saw what Al Qaeda did but This war was also dangerous, too Wow Wow and how long were you involved in that until Until October 13, 1991. From March 1991 until October 13.

Shit. So around almost eight, nine month. And who was committing the genocide? Serbs, Chetniks. Were you guys committing? Me personally, no. No? But group in my side, yes.

Yes? Absolutely. How was the woman being raped? How did that happen? It's very bad. I saw, I can tell you this, I remember one picture I saw, like today, I never forget that young, maybe 35 years old, one that took that child.

I couldn't do much, you know, because look, I thought many time if I turn my gun to everybody and kill all this but the problem was family because if he was doing that to Serbs and Chetniks there was going to execute my family because that's how they used to do to Albanians if Albanian guys shot the Serbian or Chetnik then they was going to kill the family so then I was ruining my family. It's not me to get killed. I always thought I was like, since I grew up, I grew up no fear.

Like I know one day I'm going to die. I mean weren't they trying to kill you anyways? They tried. They tried. It was a time they said look we're gonna crucify him. When I shot those group there was rumors or we're gonna butcher him, we're gonna make a cross in his body those four asses you know Chetniks they have four asses cross and four asses because they knew that I was

Muslim born. So they was sending me threats through the soldiers and stuff. But look, Sean, I'll be very honest, I was ready to die. When I started that military, I said, regardless if I die today or after 50 years one day, I'm going to die. So I had no kids. I was not married. I was young. So the age is, you know, the most dangerous age.

Ages, you don't fear nothing, you know, not everybody. I'm telling you, you have kids like, I can tell you, example, I have a boy, 12 years old, if you see him, he's a big giant boy, but he will not kill cockroaches. He's so like polite and nice. He will say, daddy, no, don't kill that, you know? But us was different

because we had that hate between us and Serbians so we grew up my grandfather was executed in a communist country my mother's father he was executed 1940 so and we grew up you know having that hate so So if I knew how my grandfather were executed, so now automatically my parents educate me, you know, look, we live here, but those are our enemy. You know, my grandfather was killed. So now we cannot trust them. So I was very educated and trained to not to trust them.

So to be always prepared. If you have ever to come close, you have to defend yourself. Or you're gonna get killed or you have to kill. So this was also a religious war? It's not a religious war because like us, it was more like we grew up in communist. Albanians was not religious the way it's in the Middle East

You know Albanians we marry Among Christians. We don't have no issue Albanian. It's like one of the best example you can live in the Whole world because we have no issue Christians or muslims we are friends we Christians or Muslims. We are friends. We Celebrate all Christmas Ramadan all together. So we have no issues between us Of course lately we have very dangerous fanatics

we crazy fanatics because Albanians came out to Go in a syrian war over front number one country from the population give more jihadists to the isis and Al-Qaeda than any different countries. But us, we were not religious like that. So we were modernized, educated, drink. I was part of it. I was drinking. I was doing life not different from you and the rest of the world.

So we had no issue with religion. But the other side, they used to look us like that. The other side always used to look at us, oh they are dangerous because they are Muslims, you know, they can threat us, they can kill us. But we was not like that. And they were supposedly Christian? Christians, yes, Orthodox Christians from, not different from Russians. Holy shit. But Croatians are Catholics. With Croats we have very good relation. We never had issues with them. Only with the Serbians, Chetniks,

they are, you know, like Slavic. Not different from Russians. Mm-hmm. Wow! What happened? What happened with your parents? Do you have any brothers and sisters? One brother passed away here eight, nine years ago. One of them, oldest one, is in Switzerland. I bring my parents and arrest, and my parents passed away a few years ago in the United

States. They're all US citizens, so I bring everybody. I'm the one I sponsor, bring all my family here. Only my wife and kids are born and raised here. My parents become nationalized citizens from me here. And did they fight too? No, my parents not. My father served in Yugoslav military two years, but he served 1960. Your brothers? My brother did service, but he didn't caught up in a war.

The youngest one, he came young here in US, so he didn't went in a war. How did it end? The end was... I mean, it's good. My older brother, he served in the Yugoslav military, he did in 1988, so that time was no war. And my father did in 1940, it was no war that time, and the rest of the family didn't serve. How did the war end? Oh, very brutal.

Still it's a threat. Croatia separated. Yugoslavia is now seven countries. It should start. Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, and Kosovo, Montenegro. So it's seven different countries from Yugoslavia. But still we have little issues. We have the US military in Kosovo,

which is our number one protector. To us, it's Albanians, we believe God is in the sky, America is in the ground. For Albanians, Albania and Kosovo, it's like a 53rd state of US. But we have also issue with the terrorists. with fanatics, definitely we have a problem. So it's not like we are clean, we're not, because it was Albanian from Kosovo who came out in Frankfurt, Germany a few years ago, if I don't make mistake, six, seven years ago, he execute two US Marines in Frankfurt, Germany. He shot two or three. Wow. Yeah. In not to pass the in 1991,

October 9, 1991, I tried to escape from the military from the war zone on November 9, October 9, I'm sorry. And I got caught in the ancient Belgrade airport. And my got caught in the entrance of the Belgrade airport and my father was in a bus and my brother-in-law, they was trying to help me to escape the war. And I got arrested from military police. And that was one of the worst ever days I passed in my entire life. I was tortured so badly, when I had to use the bathroom, I was tortured so badly when I had to use the bathroom, I was leaking blood.

That's how they tortured me, Yugoslav military. How did they torture you? They handcuffed me from the right hand with the left and they was hitting me those black sticks they used to use in the military. I was bleeding badly. They was letting me stay in that, and they was doing it in the right foot, just to have me to admit I'm a deserter from military.

And Sean, for me, was, or me to die, or my family. So I decide to sacrifice myself, not to sacrifice my family. So what I did, I took the pain. They tortured me so badly and I never admitted. I said I'm going to die that day in military prison. I'm not going to admit it. I'm leaving the military. They tortured me so badly after four days because in Yugoslavia, I was a communist

to have a little skills because 1981, my father was a police for four years in Yugoslav police. I'm a regular police. So I learned how they want to torture people. If you take a pain for 72 hours, they will let you go. So if you don't take the pain and you give up, you say, yes, I did that, then of course you're going to get tortured and you're going to get to prison. So now it was two things, or me to die or my family. So I never admitted and they took me from a military prison they sent me right away in a war zone. And you have a piece of paper proof, I send it to you guys and you can see it clear in October 13 one of the officers Captain Kabilinovic Vio, he's the one who helped me sign that permit.

I'm going to be for two days visited my family but actually I was not going to visit the family but he was helping me to visit the family but he was helping me to leave the war because I was going to go in military court minimum 25 years just to enter the military court because I did that shot against Chetniks so I was between 25 years or death sentence So I had no choice to do that and I successfully left the Yugoslav army. My family thought I was dead. I went in my city Kosovo that night. It was a 4 a.m. midnight in the morning and I jumped from the wall. All my family thought I was dead. When I knocked the window, complete family was waiting for my dead body to send it from military.

When they saw me live in my city, everybody thought I was dead. I got killed because I was arrested from the military police. And then finally, I received help from some family members and I left Yugoslavia in October 14, 1991. I went to Switzerland. It took me 10 days journey to enter Switzerland from Yugoslavia in October 14, 1991. I went to Switzerland. It took me 10 days journey to enter Switzerland from Yugoslavia. How did you get to Switzerland from Yugoslavia? I it was a long journey. I'll be very honest not not easy young guy to do like that. It's I guess my nature is a little bit like brave. They helped me to give me a fake passport, not fake passport, fake

my picture but different name. I never travel like that but I guess God gave me some kind of skills, my nature. That's how even I came out to CIA because I was capable, you know, I'm a street smart, even I was not who knows what kind of education in a school, but I was a natural street smart. And I came out to use that passport. My name was Jakub Ramusholi when I used that passport. I did use at least in my life maybe 10 or 13 different names by now. So I took that passport, I travelled from Macedonia to Bulgaria. From Bulgaria I flew to Italy and in Italy I got arrested. They were not letting me go through from Bulgaria to Italy. I had a little cash with me and they keep me one night in a prison in Italy and they send me back to Bulgaria.

But now if I don't come out with my ideas to enter Switzerland, if I go in Yugoslavia, I was going to be in a military prison and life or death. So when you have this kind of situation then now you gotta do whatever it takes to survive. You know it's not like you have experience but experience you guys do is a little different because you have a strong support. When you have a US military or US government you feel more strong. You know it's a different different feeling. But me, I don't have that support. My support is only me. How am I going to survive?

So I was returning from Italy to Bulgaria, and I called from one of couple of best friend and a family member to come and help me. So they smuggled me from Bulgaria to Romania illegally. And then from Romania, I did all my trips, Romania, Hungary, Germany, Belgium, Belgium, France, France, Switzerland. I entered Switzerland in October 26, 1991.

Illegal. All that was, I mean, how did you fund that? With money. How much money does it take? It took, that time I believe it was not over 2,300 marks that time. So basically like $2,300. Because I was always using buses, local buses and stuff. So to pay a little cheap and stuff, not to be expensive, I never

pay smuggler. So everything in my life I did, I never pay smuggler. All I did myself. So you did this all yourself? All myself. Just using my connection, friends, you know, like that. And knowing me how I was brave and tough. So always I used to receive support. I mean, that's a lot of friends in a lot of countries. Yes, yes, I do. Even today, I'm speaking- Bulgaria, Italy, Germany, Belgium, France. Sweden, I mean France, Belgium, yes.

Holy shit. So you knew people in every one of these countries? Every one of the countries, yes. Who were they? Were they family members? Albanians, Albanians. Everywhere Albanians. It's all connection. Even today I'm speaking to you, I can easily say if you pick a globe and turn and put the finger, I'm sure I have a friend somewhere, somehow. It's kind of, I'm very friendly with people and I'm loyal to my friends. It's not the job I did. My friends are never bad guys. I never have a friend bad guys. When I said friend bad guys meaning hate in United

States. All my friends are good with US, good with a life. Regardless what they do with the personal life, when it's come to choose a US or terrorist, I don't have no friends who side with terrorists. All I have friends who side 100% with US. Wow. And so what happens when you get to Switzerland? I came out in Switzerland and then I have 10 or 15 first cousins in Switzerland, included my older brother. He was working that time in Switzerland.

I stayed in Switzerland for a couple of months from October to December. In December 23rd, I started working after one week in Switzerland. I started working construction in Switzerland. Illegal, staying illegal. And I get arrested two days before Christmas. I'm sleeping in an apartment in Switzerland and my brother and my first cousins, ten of them, they were in a club. They were all young and they come in with two cars, I think 11 or 12 guys. And the police obviously know only Albanians can beat six, seven guys in

one small car. So they get arrested. So so they come now they one day arrest they come close to the building i used to live but nobody knew it what floor i was living because one of my cousins gave me free apartment for a few months because i came from military everybody knew it what i've been through in a yuglav military. So they was kind of respecting me from my past when I did it. So they kind of like treated me a little special than the rest of the friends and cousins. I was like a brave man to them and a special treatment.

So they are arresting me now. And it was December 23rd, the police come 3 a.m. in the apartment where I used to live in Geneva and me and one of my cousins was sleeping the bell was ringing that night and he said it's a bell I said okay wake up and just open the door and he said I see people with a white shirt I said, you can open the door. They just want in 10, 15 cops, the Swiss police with the guns and everything. And they're telling us, don't move, don't move.

And they're in French. And I was very little at that time in French. Now I know because I used to live in Geneva side and Quebec side so I'm good in five six different languages. And now they're asking me for passport. They turn the light on and the passport was next to TV. And that night I see a very bad dreams in a war. And he said your name and I said it's a moi, Jacob Ramusol in French. And he looked your name and I said Samoa Yakup Ramusholi in the French and he looked that oh shit now What I'm gonna do, you know, and he the other one get arrested

My brother get arrested and 10 other 15 10 or 12 first cousins all of them get arrested together They send us in a prison in Geneva. I stayed for four or five days in Geneva. Now it's my plan to survive because everybody is going to get deported in Yugoslavia and nobody is from the military, only me from all of us. So what I'm going to do, I need to plan something myself. They're taking us from Geneva to Zurich and from Zurich, ticket to Yugoslavia. And now everybody walking in an airplane, it was two days after Christmas, between Christmas and New Year 1991. I'm planning my plan B, using my skills. Everybody moving in a flight, I'm the last to enter the airplane.

And I'm telling the police, I'm a last to enter the airplane and I'm telling the police I'm saying to him to me don't the passport which is can you give me the passport he said yes I want to show to you something and he gave me the passport with a boarding ticket I took the passport or complete passport in front of him and I throw in a floor and I push the police and then they punch me. That's what I was looking. I was looking to get hit so to seek the asylum and I was in a floor everybody walked in a flight they closed the flight right away the door now they jump all the police in me what I did I said Muasa deserter of military, the Yugoslavi. And they got stuck. When you

mentioned deserter, meaning deserter, it was from Yugoslav military because that time Lara Albanians was deserting the Yugoslav military. And they believe it. They sent me back to Geneva, they gave me a translator. And I told the translator, look at, I can bring my military IDs. I'm a from former military I came from war zone from Wukow and They bring the translator and they give me asylum in Switzerland temporary. That was a December 1991 I stayed in this in Switzerland from 1991 to October 1994 in the Switzerland October, I came to United States.

How did you get to the United States? It's very good question. And it's excellent answer. In 1994, I have my uncle came here in 1960. He immigrated from Albania. He was a US citizen. So I dreamed all the time. I have my aunt and a lot of first cousin,

they came that time. So I always dreamed United States, you know, and a lot of first cousins. They came that time So I always dreamed United States, you know Because they used to come from US to Kosovo to visit us and you know, we see like all this is good You know to be in United States, you know, my first cousins. They always Talk nice that some of them they're born in US that time we talking 35 years ago because I have family members they came 50 years ago 60 years ago and I Was dreaming to come here and Switzerland was not giving us asylum for good like in United States They was given us just temporary all the former military was receiving status only temporary in Switzerland

So I asked my uncle I said can you send me invitation? I want to come in United States He said I would send it to you, but it's not easy to get that visa. I said, look, you send it to me, I'm going to get the visa. And he sent me the visa, and with his invitation, they denied. So I did it. Now I use again my skills.

I got the passport from somebody, a friend of mine. And I went in a US embassy in Switzerland and got the visa myself I got a visa with a different name not my name Blurrem Skoro again my skills to get the visa in the US embassy and I went in Zurich and I got visa they gave me multiply one year visa for US. I got the visa I came in JFK I flew in October 1994 and I my uncle was waiting for me in JFK and it was funny because like I'm using my skills not to trust still even my uncle but not to tell him what I'm coming with name So he's he's coming in information in JFK calling for blur him But my name was a different name Femi Hussein. So totally different name now

So he's avoiding in airport. I took cab from JFK I mean Astoria coins to his house and then I see my wife my uncle's wife, she's American, not Albanian, American born. And Patricia, she said, welcome. She's asking me, I did a little few words, where is your uncle? I said, I don't see my uncle.

Then she paged him, that time there was no cell phones. And then my uncle responded and said, where are you? I said, I'm in your apartment. How come you was not waiting? I said, because I took a different passport, different name, you know? And then he come and I start live in the US in 1994. Wow.

That's quite the journey. Yes. That's quite the journey. Had. That's quite the journey. Had you ever met your uncle before that was here in the U.S.? Yes, I did. You did? Yes, I did, yes. And how long had he been here before you arrived?

Oh, he came here in 1960. Oh, 19... When did you meet him? Oh, he used to come always from here in my country. Okay, he was... He used to... He became U.S. citizen and he had no problem to come to visit us. And you didn't trust him?

I didn't trust him because I was fearing if I get arrested then I will put him in trouble. Gotcha. So I was trying to save him. Gotcha. You know how it's a loss. If he knows I'm coming with a fake passport, different name, he can get trouble. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Holy shit. That's quite the journey. I'm coming with a fake passport, different name, he can get trouble. Holy shit. Yeah.

That's quite the journey. And how old, how old were you when you got to the U S fire? I was, uh, 20, 23, 24. All that for in, in three to four years. Yes. Yes. After the military, three, four years. So I started military 19.

I finished 20 and, uh, after 20 it's until 1994, so basically 23, 24. At a young age with strong skills. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll pick up with your life in the US. No problem. If you ever feel like the modern world is wearing you down, things like EMFs, artificial light, seed oils, microplastics, chronic stress, it seems like our biology wasn't designed for these modern assaults and it's probably taking a toll on all of us. Armour colostrum is a bioactive whole food that can help revive cellular signaling and help bolster our health from within.

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Get your free gold and silver kit from my partners at GoldCode today. Are your savings protected? Do you have a hedge against market risk and uncertainty? Learn why gold has been breaking record after record. I believe there's no better time to get your free gold and silver kit. Go to SeanLikesGold.com. That's SeanLikesGold.com. Alright Blair, we're back from the break. You're coming to the US. I know you worked a lot of odd jobs and then you got picked up and started working with the Albanian mafia.

And we'll get to that. So arriving in the US, you're living at your uncle's house with his family. What do you start doing? After a few months I stay, if I don't make a mistake, two or three months until I got my own apartment. My own apartment I got somewhere in February 1995 and I applied for asylum in 95. I start in December 94, and then we send the papers to immigration in 1995.

And my asylum was right away approved and granted. In May 1995, I got granted political asylum in US, which is, it was my dream come true. You know, I was always dreaming that and I become like very quick, very easy. A lot of people was struggling and suffering, not being able to become a US resident. I did in less than three, four months.

And after I got granted 95, I started working. Did a lot of different jobs in restaurant, construction. I was doorman. I was in a cleaning company and supporting my family. I was always full-time worker, never no job. always full-time worker, never no job. And somewhere 95, 96, it started breaking war in Yugoslavia between my country, Kosovo and Yugoslavia. Because those years it was Slovenia and Croatia very got separated. So it was left over Kosovo, Montenegro and Macedonia. And it was not easy.

I'll be very honest. I was working hard and a single person with one check paying the bills and supporting family was not easy. And it was good you to make a living for yourself, but that time my family was not working in Yugoslavia, so I had over my back, maybe 10, 15 10-15 family members, no job in Kosovo. So there was all dependent on me. So all my family was waiting for me. So no pension, no income, no nothing, just blurring to send them to them. And I was young hanging out with, becoming friends with a lot of Albanians. And one day, it was 1996, I'm in a bar with all Albanians, you know, drinking party.

Again, I'm a, through the religion Muslim, but you know, enjoying life. Nothing strict, no Wahhabi, no strict Islam. And I'm telling my friends, look, no Wahhabi, no Syrki Islam. And I'm telling my friends, look, I'm having a little hardship, you know, supporting my family and stuff, but I always used to live by myself,

no roommate, no nobody, just my own apartment and enjoying the life. And one day they approached me, they said, look, we can help you, you know? And I said, help? You know, how is the help possible? They said, you know, we can said, help, you know, how is the help possible? They said, you know, we can say we can, you can send drugs to Albania. I said drugs to Albania. No, I never did that.

You know, first time, you know, having this conversation, I was in a military service war and stuff like that, but not, but in a community, I was highly respected in New York. So by knowing my past, how I got arrested in the military, because it was not easy somebody to survive that torture. It's crazy, you know. So now everybody knows that torture I did. And you know how I served in the Croatian war, you know, was one of the most dangerous war in Balkan. So kind of, not kind of,

but even in a mafia community, my name started becoming among the five, six families, Gambino crime family, Genovese, Bonanno, Lucchese, all this Italian mafia, included Albanians. And I was respected. We were hanging out in one of the Gambino crime club in Bensinos, used to be well-known neighborhood of mobsters in New York. I used to live in that neighborhood, you know, living all in the middle of the mobsters, so all surrounding with mafia. And I kind of blend in good with good skills and now it's quick spread the rumors, oh he came from the war, you know, knowing through the media he comes from the war zone, they give you highly respect, you know, they treat you more than the rest of the people, you know, because, you know, they treat you more than the rest of the people, you know, because,

you know, surviving in that Croatian war is kind of big things. I start the trip, first trip, if I don't make mistake, somewhere end of 96, first drug deal in sending drugs to Albania. So hold on, what's going through your head when the Albanian mafia says we can help, we just need you to push drugs to Albania? Those moments for example, I didn't much ask because I know the nature of the mafia, it's not to ask too much questions because if you ask questions then you're raising questions

and maybe you work for government, you know, because my asylum was granted right away. So a lot of them were still illegal because that time in the US, nobody was asking you for documents, you know, you can live here, you know, like rest of the illegal immigrants, nobody will ask you if you have any paper, you know. So it was like normal everybody else.

And since I started hanging out with them, I said not to ask questions, all I need to follow the whatever they tell me to follow, you know, nothing, no questions. And they said, they teach me how to do all these things. And I said, okay, do we start, you know, hanging out, being more close to them more, you know, but they had a good reputation. I tell you this Albanians Italian mafia was very dangerous but Italian mafia would not play with Albanian mafia because they was taking

them too serious Albanians was killing them with no problems you know it was more kind of serious Albanians than Italians you know they used to see them then when I came out to the prison then I found out Albanians was really more strong than Italians. So the Italian mafia was... they were scared of the Albanians? Absolutely, 100%. Absolutely. Even me, for example, when I was in that club, look, the time, mafia, how they were functioning, you know, when it's a club, they all know each other. Even it's not a social club, but they all know each other. Even it's not social club, but they all know each other. So now they know it is guy who came from the war and it's me. And I was used to be known like Benny.

My nickname was Benny. Everybody used to know me Benny. So now Benny came from the war. So when I walk in the club, they always respect me. So I never worked with Italian mafia. I never had to know any We I had the friends, you know, we communicated thank God but never any business like being a In Italian mob, so it was friendly friendly, but never been in in mob I've never crossed the business line. No, never just with Albanian Did you know these guys were in the mob before they approached you? No, I never knew it until I start, I think, I believe second or third trip. Then I start becoming friendly, seeing them gambling, using drugs, drinking, party, you know, all these things and controlling gambling.

You know, they used to control a lot of gambling stuff in New York City. Albanians, they used to control a lot of gambling stuff in New York City. Albanians, they used to control a lot of the Italian mobs. You know, it's not like Albanians was not like a big group, but small group, very strong, very loyal to each other. Interesting, interesting. What else? What else was the mafia into in New York? Gambling, gambling, I was always drugs in them Prostitution always with them. So I have racketeering

Extortion all this whatever it's in a bad shit all illegal things. They used to be under the control of mafia And so let's let's talk about how you got into drug running. What kind of drugs was it? It's, uh, it was cocaine, sending cocaine from, uh, United States. First I start in Albania for a few trips and then from Albania, I started doing to Italy, then I start dealing with the mobs of Albania. Mobs us in Italy. Okay. So you went, so let me get, let me just get this straight. So they sent you to Albania.

Yeah, I flew from JFK to Italy, used to change flight in Switzerland or Germany, always it was a transit, Germany, Frankfurt or Italy, and then from Italy to Albania. But mostly of the time, Germany and Albania or Switzerland, Albania. So did you live there or would you come back to New York? I will come always back to New York. I just send the drugs, bring the money. Send the drugs, bring the money. So we used to take two pieces, one piece, one keys of cocaine, send it or two.

Sometimes we used to be two, three of us sent six, seven kilos and come back with money. Did you have any fear about going back? Back fear back to go where? Albania. No, I didn't have no fear. None? None. How would you smuggle the drugs?

In the body. We used to, we used to sew a little bit of like a swimming suit tight and make a piece of pieces in a body. That time was it's a very I can explain a little bit. Checks in the airport used to be very different very easy you couldn't smuggle you couldn't walk like I used to have a nice three-piece suit, nice clothes and drugs inside and tie it up good in the body and you pass it through. Before you do the trip, same clothes we wear and we go to test one day before if it's going through alarm detector. If it goes through those closed alarm detector, then you change it. You do something, clothes, no bell, so they don't ring the alarm.

So the next day I used to smuggle the drugs, take the drugs from New York, send it to Albania or Italy, and then Italy sell it in the street. But I never dealt in the street life, meaning selling in the streets. Always I used to deal with big guys guys like bosses, so not transport. Yeah, just you know not the Smuggling and selling in the street never doubt in the street cell. So how would they how would the cocaine be packaged? Or the way comes from Colombia. It would be in a yeah, you know, it's break

Yes, always break and you wouldn't break it up No, never break because if you break then they don't want to buy it. So always heartbreaks. I used to take, it was time, three killers in the body. So one in the front and two sides. A three-piece suit, very nice suit, tie, like businessman with a suitcase with you, pass it, no problem. Wow. How many times did you do this? I did easy, I can say, minimum 10 times.

Minimum 10 times? Yes. And what would the process be like when you got to Albania? Oh, hanging out over there, 3-4 days, giving to the people. We used to always have waiting people with money. Just you stay three days to one week, not to be suspicious. When you come back in US, so not to raise suspicious, how you come right away next day. So you stay, hang out, enjoy Albania, Albania course one week and come back,

bring the money, no problem. How much do you get smuggling a kid cocaine into Albania? It was a kilo. That time was $55,000 a kilo. $55,000 a kilo. So you're smuggling about three kilos of trip? Yes, $150,000. It was a time, one shot, I bring it, the highest amount of money, $560,000 cash.

Holy shit. And that's all for you to keep? With the group. With the group? Yeah, with the. Holy shit. And that's all for you to keep? With a group. With the group? Yeah, with a group, yeah. Sharing. We was always partners and sharing.

So that was your money. You didn't need to transport the money and give it to the Albanian mob back in New York. That was $55,000. There was three, four of us all the time sharing. How much would you be able to keep? There was a time $80,000, $ 80,000, 90,000 per kilo. Oh, per kilo was maybe, per kilo I can say eight to $9,000.

So you would get paid roughly a little under $10,000 per kilo. Yes, yes. It's a lot bigger than working at a cleaners. Absolutely. Yeah. Big difference. It's especially like, this is a trick, you know, you think it's a big money, sweet money,

but that's the worst thing. Today, I would freely say, I would never even dream, even advise anybody to do any work like that because that's short time. What do you think would have happened if you would have said, no, I don't want to smuggle drugs? In the beginning, nothing. Nothing? Nothing, absolutely.

I need the money. So, they didn't care. They have a man. It's not that everybody was brave the way I used to with the military experience, but there still was people to do and still continue doing. They don't do the way they did it. They change all those things, but they're still doing drugs. We never stop. It's a business. And so what would the meetup look like? How would you know who you're meeting over there?

In Europe? Yes. Always through the friends, you know, always to the names, always to the mediator. So I go, for example, to one of the family members from here in Albania, not to my family, to the members of the group. And then they waited for me in the airport.

They're taking me home. I stay in the apartments in Albania. And next day they come in to take the drugs, giving the money, always drugs money, exchanging, never long. So always paid in the spot, in the hand. Giving the drugs, taking the money. Did your family know you were doing this? No.

Your uncle? No, nobody. You don't think they picked up on that? I never show to them money. My family knew that over there was easy to believe because I was telling them I'm doing two job. So I was never telling my uncle how much I'm sending over there because then he will know what I'm doing. So I try to keep very strict because I learned one thing in the crimes if a

person knows he can be charged with the crime. So I learned that part to keep the secret but after like few years my uncle found out I did it. And then we're going to come to the point. It's a funny part how my wife caught me doing the drug dealing, found out. It's very, I didn't even believe. Let's go. I'm in a phone using different language, Serbian, talking to somebody in a Serbian because my wife is

born and raised in US Then I was never sure she she understands Serbian. I never thought she was five or six years old they left us to live in the Valley called Prussia what is in the Serbian side Her parents took her for a couple of years to live there when she was young and she went in Serbian school. I never thought my wife, she was a no Serbian. So I'm talking in a phone home,

having a nice conversation. I got married. I hung up the phone. My wife, she think I'm working restaurant and I took her to work with me. And then she came out, she said,'m working restaurant and I took her to work with me. And then she came out. She said, you're a drug dealer. I said, how you know?

That's what she said. How do you know? Yeah. I said, baby, she's telling me you just had a conversation about drugs. You're talking to Serbian. And then she tell me whatever I said. I said, geez, what happened with me now? That's how I caught up my wife to know.

What was the conversation? I was, we was making meeting, how are we gonna take the drugs? But I was home, so for my wife not to know, I told them, look, we're gonna talk in this language because my wife, she doesn't know. She's American born, you know. I never thought American can learn Slavic, you know.

It was like common sense. How did she respond to that? Oh, she didn't like that. She didn't like that. She freaked out. If my family knows I married a drug dealer, they will beat me. Her family, it's interesting because before I got married we met each other we dated we met each other it's a it's a in a document I it's like

some parties like a love story in I met her in 1996 97 I'm sorry in Albanian party and that time I was you know my name was the best in Albanian community. I was, everybody used to know it's Albanian mob, Albanian gangster, very good reputation, driving Mercedes. A few years in United States, you know, not a lot of immigrants can do that, bulletproof car, you know, all these things. I started dating her for a few months and I'm picking the phone, calling her parents, you know, to get engaged. And the first thing her father asked me, what do you do for a living?

I said, I work in a restaurant. How long you been here? I said, I've been here three, four years. He said, I cannot give you my daughter. You know, you just want to marry her because you want to become US citizen. But I was very granted asylum. You know, I didn't need to get married with my wife to become US citizen.

I said, look, sir, I don't need to get married. I have my papers. I'm traveling to my country. I don't have no problem with the papers. Now he said, and he hung up the phone. I said, okay, if you hang up the phone, then we start. We engaged and she took a vacation with their parents. We planned everything.

And so in June, 96 at seven, they're going back to Kosovo and they are in vacation. And after a couple of weeks, I'm going in vacation too. But I decided with my wife to get married. And I told my family, I'm going to come to Kosovo and make a wedding party and get married. And I'm going, the parents in Kosovo, they don't want to give it to me to get married. They told her no. And I said, look, are you going to get married? She told her parents in front of me, you know what? I love my husband My boyfriend we was engaged and I'm gonna go with him

She had a you know Choice it was a 20 years old 19 Between 19 and 20 so she loved the family and come and got married with me in Kosovo and then we come in US in 97, 98 my first daughter was born April 98 and the second daughter was born in September 1999. But those years then I started drug dealing, working always. I always used to have a job, so to be good to the government side paying taxes and everything but doing drug dealing And your wife

She found out before you got married or after often She found out after we got married and you kept doing it. I kept doing that. Yes, then money was sweet Money was sweet and it's Did she come to terms with it? Then I used to take her a couple of times, a few times I used to take her with me. When I used to go, then I start changing, working myself. Working with Italy only, not no more with Albania. Now I build a relationship, friendship with Italians and I used to work myself in Italy.

Then I used to take her with me, just to look good in airports, like a couple traveling, just, you know, like the customs not to be suspicious in what we're doing. So I used to take her and just fly to, from JFK to Italy. Always using transit, even going to Italy. Always using transit. Even going to Italy, I used to always use Germany.

Interesting. So what did the Albanian mafia think when you started working for the Italian? They never thought I was working for Italian. I was working for myself, but I have a good relationship or friendship with mobsters. So nothing like I'm under them. I'm also in my own but not under mafia. So there was no suspicious anything? I never, I always keep my loyalty to Albanian mobsters.

How did the conversation start with the Italians? I learned a language. The conversation started with a reputation building up. I built my name from Bensoners, Brooklyn, New York. So when you build in New York, you're hanging out with mobsters, you know, always become friends, drinking together, every night in the bars. That's how, you know know build a friendship with them. How do they approach you?

How they see, how they respect my people, how they was respecting me. They used to know I came from the military, they used to know I came from the war zone. We used to have a conversation when we're in a club, we always talk, you know, I was there, you know, we did this, we did that, you know, then now you become strong, you know, because I barely saw anybody being in the past like me, you know, I was, I didn't see anybody coming from the war like the way I came. So it was like only me in the group. Of course, there was guys in a street life where they did crazy things, beating, breaking legs, breaking arms.

There was a guys like that. But to them was still they can do that. But if a Benny get crazy, he can shoot us. So Benny is respected. It's among ourself. We can play and joke, but still, we gotta respect him for his past.

So you saw him breaking people's legs and... It's not I witnessed it, but I knew it. When they came from the situation, I knew that they broke somebody's legs or, you know, I hear they shot somebody in a trunk. They told me, we shot somebody and left him in the car, in a trunk. They would just tell you that Yeah, there's no problem. And I know who was the person who got shot

Who'd give me one example? It's One of its Albanian it's considered like a traitor to them and I can I will think his name because it's a little long time. And they told me we shot so and so and then I found out he got shot and they left him in his car in a trunk. And then I know people got beat up breaking legs, breaking jars and stabbing knife and stuff like that.

I used to know, I went far, I used to know son-in-law of the John Garry, Carmine. We was in the same room in a prison. I met John Jr. from Gambino crime family. I met the boss of Colombo family. I met Genovese boss with one of them, Anthony Spiro, who passed away in prison. He was my cell partner. He was head of the Genovese. Anthony Spiro was life sentence.

He was my cell partner. So I spent time with, had co-founder of the Bloods in New York, Pistol Pete. And his son is in Florence, Colorado. I was very close with him. He was my self-partner three years. We went along excellent. Wow, did you know who these guys were at the time?

Not at the time. No? No. In the beginning, some of the mobs I used to know. Like from the Gambino, for example, one of the two brothers, Saul and Tommy, I knew there was a wise guy. There was a very strong rank in the Gambino crime family. How did you eventually get picked up?

It's, again, it's my past. No, I mean in prison. In prison, I tell you, this is the best part of the story of the life. That trip, Sean, I did not do that trip. I was set up. I was not involved in that trip. When I get arrested, it's a mistake of the US government. When I say the mistake of US government, how

informers was using government. So informer, one of the informers, there was two of them. He came out from the prison and what he did, I start lending him money. We used to do lawn shark in a little bit. And he sent somebody in Pakistan for drugs. He's dead today. He's deceased in a prison. They said he got killed or something, but it's not my problem. I don't care. He deserved, he got what he deserved. And this guy, he set me up. He said, one day we're coming from the Bronx to Queens. He said, we used to call each other son. He said, be careful, maybe government one day arrest you. They can tell you I'm informal, but I'm not. Sean, when you don't have no, when you're not in

a system, federal prison, look, you have a very strong, good experience. I see you part of the life story. You've been in a SEALS, you've been in an intelligence agency and it's excellent experience you have. But it's a different my experience. You can know the laws a little bit. I don't know the laws. Only time you learn the laws today, speaking with you I'm like a paralegal. I know the law very well. I can tell you learn the laws today, speaking with you, I'm like a paralegal. I know the law very well. I can tell you about the US laws, you will never believe it. So I'm coming in form or telling me, hey, be careful if they arrest you, they can tell

you, you know, I'm working for the FBI. I don't believe. One of my first cousins told me one day, look cousin, don't trust Nick because Nick is a FBI informer. I said come on Nick cannot be an informer because he knows me. I come from the war. I was shooting, you know, he's fearing me. But I learned all these two years when I was friends with that informer, when he talked to his family, he always mentioned my name because his phone was tapped. So if something happened, he got killed. So they know his family who he was with, you know. So every time he's with me, he talked to his wife or somebody of family and then, oh, I'm with Benny, Benny, Benny with Benny Benny Benny Benny and then one day he got me

paranoid and I told him son how come you always tell mention my name in a phone no no just because I love you okay one day we play in pool and somebody called him from Greek he was deported he was arrested and deported he stayed in a federal prison but this guy went in a bathroom. So the phone ringing and Klyanthi, the guy who got killed was Vito, Albanian guy in a trunk from the past story we were talking. He came in my head, his name is Vito, Albanian name. So he got killed from one of the Albanian mobsters. He was shot in the

head in a trunk. So now, Lyonth is the guy Albanian who call him from the Greece. This guy is in the bathroom, the informer, but he's my friend, my ex-friend. And I answered the phone, his phone. And this guy cursing me saying, hey, you mother f, why you not answering the phone, you f and snitch this that I said, yo Who you talking to you know, I'm not Nick. I'm Benny. Oh, I'm sorry Where is Nick? He's not answering my phone. I said he's in the bathroom. He said, you know, he's an informer. I said really See had a lot of signs. Yes as this guy was an important Sean. It was too late for me this is it coming in

1991 it's, I'm a government is very investigating me. They're watching me. So I'm very followed from the US government, from the FBI, MDA. So it was no more, only choice was me to stop, but there still was building case against me. So what he did, he asked me to do a favor to send him $21,000 in Pakistan. I did wire from the Western Union. I make that mistake in my name. But I was young and it's not like I thought I used always myself to say, hey, he's going

to be scared to snitch me because he knows my past. But he didn't. He snitched me. And I don't want to use that. He was informal. You know, we're trying to be more polite than the language so the viewers not to think now I'm going rough in the people. I'm going rafting the people and I sent $21,000 to somebody who was in Pakistan and he was connected to one of the most wanted. You have a picture with Bin Laden so he was supporter of Bin Laden. I saw picture with him and Bin Laden after I went to Pakistan. So now I wire $21,000 and this guy comes back in somewhere November 1999 and he gets arrested in New York but he doesn't tell nobody. He gets arrested in six or seven Albanian group of the mafia. Everybody goes in jail only this one get bail. So now everybody rumors how come this guy get bail. Long story short,

he doesn't call me, he doesn't come to see me, he owns me $21,000. So informer Nick, he tells me you have to go yourself in Pakistan, me to pay you the money. But he was setting me up. Now it's not,'m not I'm 100% clean. I'm according to the US laws and I'm witnessing today in this interview I was 100% clean. I was never dealing with heroin, never dealing with Afghanistan or Pakistan. All I was dealing with cocaine with Italy, never with terrorists. So I was always used to think if I give them money, so that's money is going to support terrorists So I was keeping myself because you as was to me my dream place

So regardless what I do with Italy and the gangs and mafia Long as I keep myself clean with terror group So I don't mind dealing with mafia. I might deal in with terror group So, I don't mind dealing with mafia, I mind dealing with terror group. So this guy send me to Pakistan. We all value our freedom, privacy and financial security. But cyber criminals don't. Hackers, scammers and thieves are trying to steal what is rightfully yours every day. I'm always looking for ways to protect my family and to keep their personal information

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than what you're paying for that streaming service you forgot to cancel this month. That's n-t-i-t-y-g-u-a-r-d dot com slash s-r-s to sign up for a 30-day free trial and get 60% off. Certain terms apply, so be sure to check the site for details. I'm taking a first trip in February of 2000 in Pakistan. That's my first trip in my life in Pakistan. I'm going over there, not knowing nothing, country never visited my life, landing over there, I took my wife with me. Which is strictly over there bad, but I never took my wife when I was meeting. And now this informer has a good strong relationship with one of the Pakistani wanted, he still wanted today is in a still FBI

Wanted list and I'm going his name I can say it. It's not I don't mind to say his name His real name is Mir Kazim Shah. It's a lives in a tribal area in Peshawar, Mardan. It's a city Peshawar near the Afghanistan border So he still wanted from early 90s, he's still in FBI, he's indicted twice in Eastern District Court. First trip landing in Karachi Pakistan. From Karachi Pakistan, I'm going to Islamabad, Pakistan. In Islamabad, I'm waiting for this guy.

But this guy, he knew what he's wanted he was very smart and he doesn't come in my time he called in hotel and hotel tell me you have phone call from guest and he said it's you I said yeah it's me I'm gonna come and see I waited one week 10 days he doesn't want to come and see me. And I'm calling the informer. I said, that time he was my friend. I said, he said, this is how it works. You got to wait only in his time. Then one time he showed up nighttime.

He doesn't want to get caught up in the cameras and stuff. He walks in. He is known Amir, AKA Amir, but his real name, Mir Kazim Shah. He said, hi, how are you? Good English speaking, you know, at that time he was easy. I was maybe 26, 27. He was for sure 40, 45. Said, look, you wanna do this?

I said, yeah, I bring some money. I give him, if I don't make mistake, another $20,000 cash to him. So for the trip, so he prepared five kilos of heroin to bring it back. So I took after one week, five kilos of heroin. How he did it, Sean, it's a good part. When we were sitting, I start hanging out a few times. I want to visit him. He took me to Afghanistan to see how they grow in the opinion. They have maybe at least five, six thousand security. Those Afghanis with AKs and stuff like that. But I was clean shave. It's different than working for CIA. So I was like clean western guy, no beard, no nothing.

So it's a little bit different than when I work for the CIA. He took me over there. He said, look, we're going to plan this trip. But I want to tell you one thing. I know I'm wanted in the US government. He tell me straight up the first time when I went in his house, he tell me I'm wanted from the US government if I want to be bad guy I can send a bomb the way I'm gonna send the drugs and you can leave it in JFK and blow the JFK that's what he

told me in a first trip in 2000 we talking one there was not too much al-qaeda skin you know the al-qaeda because you have experience but not the rest of the world, you know So at age 27, I meet him first time in somebody who hates the US and then I see picture with Not just him with bin Laden in a crew black and white picture and he's in one of the corner bin Laden in the middle He was a former Mujahideen. He was shot in Afghan war. So he fought with Mujahideen's Russian war. So it's a former Mujahideen against Soviets. So it's not young.

And we talk in nice conversation. He taking me in Afghanistan, coming back and I stay I think around three weeks. Where did you go to Afghanistan? Do you know? I think around three weeks for did you go to Afghanistan Dino near the tribal area we passed through the Mardin we went to from Beluchistan site and We want I want far as Kandahar we went to Kandahar. I was in Kandahar. I was a One time I think we visited for a few hours Mazar-e-Sharif. So we spent those tribal areas where it's always controlled from the time. That time was complete control from Taliban.

It's not Taliban after collapse. So time when I was there was control of the Taliban. And nice, I came and bring the drugs. It was excellent. What was the point of you going to Afghanistan? He just wanted to show you the fields and how he's strong. He wants to bring me in. He wants me to kind of recruit me in in day view.

My my interest was just to take that drugs and bring it and get my money. My interest was just to take that drugs and bring it and get my money. My interest was nothing be Al-Qaeda, not supporting terrorists. My interest was to bring that drugs so I can get my money and finish this. So I bring the drugs, they bring the drugs, they pass the customs in Pakistan. They bring it in a bathroom after you do all the checkpoints because in Pakistan, they pat you down. When you enter the airport, they pat you down.

But the police, of Pakistani police, this guy has all connection, police brings the drugs in a bathroom. So one day before, I meet the police outside and I know that police is gonna bring the drugs. So he bring west with wearing himself. So now when you pass the customs, Pakistani customs, they open the luggage,

and they put the tag that luggage is searched, so they don't have to go through. And they patch you down, you go the alarm detector and everything, and you clean, you pass the security. Before you board, it's a bathrooms. So he goes, the police goes first, he comes and watch me and I follow him. So he goes in one bathroom, he takes his West in the bathroom, he comes out, I enter the bathroom, I wear the West in the bathroom. So I'm a clear in the customs. Now, five kilo of heroin, West, it's in my body. So I'm clear in the customs. Now 5 kilos of heroin, west,

it's in my body. So now I'm just waiting to board. When you board an airplane, they check the ticket. It was screened back, the carry-on, and they know, they don't have to touch it because it went to checkpoint. But drugs is in my body so I'm coming now from Karachi to Shannon Ireland and then from Shannon to JFK when I come to JFK I passed one time but first trip I came from Karachi to

Canada Toronto I never came back what I did John Sean we planned the trip for me to avoid the Suspicious because when you come in customs here, they ask you where you coming from And if you tell them you coming from Pakistan, they will ride away suspicious But when you tell them you coming from Canada, it's no problem. But in Canada, when I come... Look, Sean, I want to just to understand something very clear. You plan this kind of life in an intelligent way, you to avoid detection. You, we planned this before how the government function,

what can avoid tracing you. So when you come in from Pakistan to Canada, and in Canadian customs, I said, I couldn't get a straight flight for JFK, I have one day to stay in Canada. So you just, you know, one word you're lying to them, protecting yourself, because Canadians, they think, okay, you're going to go back to New York tomorrow. So they don't need to ask you if you bring in anything, you know, you clean just transit

one day, you understand? So then when you come in in Toronto, the next day when the customs in you come straight, because in that that time in Canada you pass the customs on the Canada when you come in LaGuardia you go straight in a street. They don't search you. They don't ask no question. You passing the customs in Canada so I'm clear. I bring the drugs five kilo. That's a first trip We want to make how many passports did you have? All my life I did maybe 12 or 13. 12 or 13 passports? Yes. Where would you get the passports?

It's very easy everywhere. Like four or five times I had the passports from CIA. Four times at least. Not those ones? Yes. Mine it's maybe at least six, seven times. Buying from the people. They would just make them for you No problem any passports you name it I couldn't get you would fly to Canada from Pakistan on a different passport than you win

And come with my passport original travel document US travel document I used to use my name so I can be clear I will not show the passport either visa for Pakistan because you know to go in Pakistan you have to have a visa Regardless if you're a citizen or anybody Everybody who would travel to Pakistan you have to have a Pakistani visa You have the visas in passport. So I used to use two different passports all the time So would you go from the US to Canada to Pakistan yes, okay So it just looked like you were in Canada and you would keep that passport separate

so it just looked like you were in and out of Canada. Using two different passports. Okay, okay. And so how did you get arrested? How did they catch you? I'm coming in May 2000, getting arrested. When I went in May 2000, I'm going to make it short this because we have a lot of story. And he setting me up.

Now it's a clear, I'm not dealing. I'm going second trip because those first drugs I bring, he said, it's no good, informer telling me. But the informer saying to the FBI and DEA, I'm dealing with Ben, different Ben, not with Nick. All the drugs he's telling the government, I'm not dealing with informer, I'm dealing with totally different source.

But he's a double agent. He's profiting himself, he's using DEA and FBI. He's giving information. But he never telling the DEA and FBI, he's dealing with drugs, I'm dealing with somebody. So he's only informer. So he's only informal. So he's profiting from himself in a drug dealing and he's profiting from the government paycheck.

It's a double agent. So then he's telling me we have to go, you have to go back, bring another five kilos. I said, come on, man. I go, I had a bad accident over there in Pakistan with horse. I'm not bringing drugs. Two different people bringing drugs from Pakistan to Germany. In Germany somebody else supposed to come. What informer does, him and his wife sets up my sister-in-law and my wife, so my sister-in-law to come and bring the drugs because his wife used to know my sister-in-law.

But I'm with those two different carriers in Pakistan. So we bring in the drugs. Then in Germany, I see my sister-in-law and my wife was in Germany. And I got mad, but there was a last minute change plan. So he planned so my sister-in-law get arrested and I take the blame. So now we coming from Germany to JFK. They're letting me go through informal give information about my sister-in-law.

So now I passed the customs. Then I see my sister-in-law get So now I passed the customs, then I see my sister-in-law get stopped and my wife. In that time it was my daughter with them. Baby, this is one of the worst mistake in my life I walked in and I said to the customs, I'm with them. I said to myself, I have no choice. But the agents, the custom agents played me very dirty in my life. Very unfair.

In United States, you have to have a Miranda rights. The agent, custom agent agent I remember his name to the day I die Jamal he left the door cracked a little bit and my baby my daughter year and a half was walking around and he's in the office with me me and him he said sir we have two, you have two choices, or you to take this blame, or ask to take your daughter to put in a shelter to somebody else. And I didn't know my rights. And I said to myself, you know what, it was a very hard feeling moments. I said, okay, let my daughter go home.

I take full responsibility. I take all the blame. I didn't do that trip. I said, I'm a man. I will take the blame. And they let my daughter go home and let my wife and my sister-in-law. I took that. But I was happy. If I was given I took that. But I was happy.

If I was given right, no. But I was happy I saw my child going home because I make a mistake. Every father will do that for the child. And I get arrested. Put me in a prison, sending me to Metropolitan Detention Center. This is not first time in a prison, but regretting my mistakes.

How far I can let that. I was meant to die, I was meant to be killed, I was meant to be shot, but not to take a blame for your child. Every normal human being would do that. And this is the part when I get arrested and I say to myself, you know what? It's okay, I'm gonna pay this. I did that. But we- How old was your daughter?

Year and a half. Only year and a half. She was walking. The oldest one. Before, in the drug dealing time, I was involved with KLA. We missed one of the good parts. In 1998-99, I went from here to fight to help my people in Kosovo war. When US bombing was in 78 days Yugoslavia, I was inside fighting for my people. I was also another war joint, Kosovo Liberation Army. I volunteered from US, from New York City. I didn't stay long, four month until the war finished.

And then when I came from the war, I was very like extremely good reputation. Like they used to look me like I'm a killer. They used to look me like I'm two different wars men. You know, one in Croatian, one in Kosovo Liberation. look me like I'm two different war's men. One in Croatian, one in Kosovo liberation. I'm really brave human. So now getting arrested and not taking a blame, I get charged with conspiracy to import one

kilogram of food. Were you a killer the second time? I was warrior. What did you do? In a war. Fighting against Serbs with bottom of my heart. With not even thinking second thought. If I have to kill, I will kill. Did you kill? I was shoot. I was shot in. You never go to see victims. You never, you always distance. Go to see victims, you always distance, but you always shoot it. It's not, it's a war.

So if I have the gun with me, I'm in a war zone, I'm defending my country, defending my people, proudly, proudly. If I have to do with two countries, I will fight even today. I have no problem to fight for US. I have no problem to fight for my country. If they call me today, I'm volunteering anywhere, any zone. I have no problem. I get arrested. I've been put now in a prison among the middle of terrorists, all kind of groups. You name it. Hezboas Islamic jihad al-qaeda I Want to share one of the pictures because it's very good pictures with I have one of the pictures in a prison maybe

one two four or five different members of terror groups With me in prison. I become very quick muazzin in a prison. You become what? Muazzin, the leader of Muslims, calling for prayer and become, prisons are run from the Muslims. Every federal prison runs from the Muslims.

So I become a strong leader in a Muslim community. I start dealing with the FBI and the DEA, cooperating, taking my blame. When I took my blame, I was promised to be released in a short period of time. I got two years to hold pretrial prison. So in 9-11, I got caught up being in a cell with one of them of four or five guys that bring the bombing from Canada to LA, 2,000 million in bombing. One of the terrorists was my cell partner.

I can mention the name, it's not a problem. It's public information. It's, you know, Muhtar Hawruri, Algerian born with a Canadian and Algerian passport, Rassam and Meskini. There was three or four of them, the smuggling bomb from Canada to Los Angeles that time in 2000. So one of them was my cell partner and dealing with FBI and DEA, but you know, now 9-11 become. So September 11, I'm in a cell with one of the terrorists, but he was not convicted yet. He was only arrested. So it's a 2000 and 2001.

So he got arrested in Los Angeles bombing and bring in a prison. So he becomes self-partner with me. First flight hit the Twin Tower. I'm in the seventh floor. My room cell is tower, the freedom tower. You can see both buildings. Hudson River, Manhattan and Brooklyn. I'm in Brooklyn jail. So this now, the first flight hit, it's a morning, 8.45 if I don't make mistake, Tuesday.

And this guy called me in a prison I used to be known Amir. Same way it's nickname of the wanted guy Mir Kazim Shah Amir. I choose that name because Amir it's kind of in Arabic it's a leader. So Amir al-Muminin. So leader of believers. So now I'm in a prison known prison name Amir. He jumps on the bugging band and happy. God is a great Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.

This is from my leader. He's happy now. And I'm looking, I'm a former KLA member. I'm a very patriotic to United States. I was 78 days bombing Yugoslavia. Now I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a prison or not. It's my mixed feeling. How can be this human happy when I'm diehard, I'm a Muslim,

but I'm also diehard patriotic. I love the country, US. So what I do, and I tell him, Habibi, come on. He said, this is for my my leader and he's continued dancing We're watching the first uh plan hit now. It's coming the second flight Hit in the second tower I witnessed that because when I give some interview I see the questions all this conspiracy look it's bs I don't care how people think I saw with my own eyes the second flight

I don't care what people think. I saw with my own eyes the second flight. I don't care what people think. I care what I see. You can't tell me, oh no, it's not true. It's true, I saw the flight. What's behind is not my problem, what's behind. But I know attack was. I saw the second flight. So now I'm staying with him in a cell.

Next day, it coming from FBI, NCIA counterterrorism unit. Complete institution is shut down. I'm watching people jumping from the tower. The both towers collapse. I'm seeing all day. It's not the way you see in the movie. I'm witnessing with my own eyes. Regardless if I'm in prison, but I'm still my heart now,

now what I'm gonna do, how I can pay back. They start bringing a lot of terrorists. The first day in my life, I met the counter-terrorism unit from FBI and CIA. They came to speak to me. It was September 12th, 2001. They came to speak to you September It was September 12th, 2001. They came to speak to you September 12th, the very next day. So next day.

So this is how I start myself to pay back to the US. I said, you know what? If I get in prison killed by helping government, I don't care. Because I know I'm doing good. I don't care how they're going to say, oh, somebody was killed because he was informal. No, no. Me, I was looking my side. My side was I want to be clean to the Americans. I don't care how about terrorists and Muslims look me. My point was American side.

They came and sit down with me first day. This is how my journey started with CIA. From that first day, and then the first name of the CIA I ever spoke, Sean Lince. After second day meeting with FBI, phone rings. I'm walking, they opened the common area in 7th floor, I'm walking with one of the Taliban member in a prison and they're calling my number 5482-0053 and I'm looking to corrections officer over there, quiet in a

prison but the still the breeze and burning of the twin towers is there because my cell I was in J71. J71 is pointed straight my window to the Twin Tower. Only Hudson River separates. It's very close view. You can see it. And I'm going to the correctional officer, he's saying somebody wants to talk to you.

I said, okay. I go in the council's office like a legal phone call. He said, your attorney, because you have right to talk to you. I said, okay, I go in the consul's office like a legal phone call. He said your attorney because you have right to talk to the attorney. And this is how I introduced my name is Sean Lins. I'm calling you from a CIA. This is the clear conversation. We need your help. Are you willing to help us? I said anything I can do from today I will do it right off the bat. He revealed No question, nothing. Regardless how I feel that moment

when my child was with me, I forgot everything. I said, you know what? I am going to help the US intelligence agency. No problem. And I tell them, anytime from today you can count on me. And I start dealing, they start bringing a lot of terrorists from the streets, they're picking up all kind of people from the street, bringing in prison. You know, it was, that time CIA was not prepared,

the US agency was not prepared for the 9-11. Regardless how much they say, look, Sean, I read in a prison, I will mention the name, maybe you even met the guy, the best ever two books I read, it was, I will mention the name, maybe you even met the guy, the best of our two books I read, it was Imperial and Anonymous, two of these books, he was Mike Shoyer, he was in Bin Laden's unit 25 years, investigating Bin Laden for 25 years, CIA agent. I read both of his books, the best books in a prison. I read all kinds of books.

I read the book of the George Tenet and that's the time when I start. It was George Tennant, chief of the CIA and the chief of operations was James Pavit running the agency. Head of the CIA was George Tennant, James Pavit was running the field agency. So this is what my first step with the CIA in September 12 2001 what did he tell you after? After he revealed that he was CAA that he wanted you to work with him. What did he say? He said we need you help. I know you're Albanian. I know you've been through with the federal prison with prosecutors We not like them.

We're different than them. When we say things, we do it. And now we're going to bring a lot of people. We're going to need to find out who's who. Because Sean, in a prison, when you're in the beginning, you speak right away because you need help. And you like you're in the middle of ocean and you drawn in and you see shark and you think shark gonna help you because you're drawn in.

So in a prison when you get arrested you don't know the laws you trust people and you tell them what's going on. So that's how I got to come out to the Lara Al-Qaeda members. Lara people that was supporting Al-Qaeda members, people that were supporting Al-Qaeda, giving them money. You know, the most dangerous was with the terror group, financial is number one. It's not hard to find the foot soldiers, how much it's hard to find finance. So for the intelligence agency, it was important to find out who's financing them, then to find out who's a foot soldier of Al-Qaeda.

So food soldiers are not hard. They brainwash 18, 19 years old, 20 years old, 21, 22. Some people they have a bad past in their life. That's how they brainwash them. But finance they get from higher level Muslims, business people who want to donate charity, so they want to know that. I started dealing with the CIA for year and a half I was in contact always with agent Sean Lentz. So I hope when he see this interview he will remember me. I dealt with him from September 2012 to 2022 until I was transferred, designated to Pennsylvania

federal prison. So roughly two years, I dealt with the CIA in that time. What was in it for you? Did they pay you? No, they was promising me they're gonna cut my sentence and recruit me to work agent in a street after. What kind of stuff were you revealing to them while inside prison? I revealed a lot of the guys. For example, there was Al-Qaeda supporters, Al-Qaeda financier. I met with a guy who met Bin Laden after 9-11. So I met with a group of Lakhawana Sikhs.

They met with Bin Laden after 9-11. So I was with them. I was with Yemeni group. I was with one of the Hezbollah member who was kidnapped in the Adriatic coast early 80s. I don't know if you remember when the TW pilot was shot in hijacking. Hezbollah member, he was with me.

So it was a missing body of the Israeli soldier and they were trying to get the information but it was something very interesting Sean CIA was interested to get information from informers even people admitted in things I'm gonna give you a little small detail in a short points You know in Islam for example if you get arrested you can even say you're not no more Muslim they train them and It's that's only one thing. I don't like in religion if you get arrested You give up all the information and then you say to

the agency okay I can be with you you know and then you lie then you go in a street you become again terrorist group in a terror members you know you never get burned with a terrorist group even today I give you example myself we're gonna come to the points how I was offered from ISIS to become leader of ISIS, not a foot soldier, a leader of ISIS. Even being somebody suspicious if I was a CIA spy, they call me, I spoke with very high ranking ISIS leader.

Wow, we'll get to that, we'll get to that. It's more to the story. There It's a more to the story. Yeah, there's a lot more to the story and so When they would bring these guys into prison, how would you know who to target? Oh, I was a Mosaic they come in we talking we eating we praying together. We're eating Quran together So now I'm picking they would tell me for for example I would say one name now just his last name Serya. He was a Hamas member. So he told me I'm not Al-Qaeda member brother I'm Hamas member. So he never admitted to the government anything but he was telling me because we want to know who's member of Al-Qaeda in a group, in a prison, who's a member of Hamas or Hezbollah, who's a Shia,

who follows Salafi Salihin, who's the first three generation of Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him. So I found out, I tried to find all this information through communication with them. And that's how I was sharing the information with the CIA what other kind of information were they interested in? So they would bring everybody in and then you would figure out which terrorist group they were associated if it's a threat or if it's innocent If if he did something or not if somebody was really innocent I always said look my opinion this guy has nothing to do. He was just Pick up like a wrong time, wrong place. He has nothing to do with this. And I saw people got released, not just because of my opinion,

but you know, at least they want to, you know, how they're acting in a prison and if they're saying something. And then the biggest part, when I met with all these When I met with all these terror groups members, I built my reputation. The CIA advised me so I can build my name among the group. These people, they talk. If I'm in a prison with them and they said, oh, we have a brother, Amir, it's very strict Salafi, he's willing to fight against US. If he come out from the prison, he gonna be number one Mujahideen. You believe or not, 98 to 99% of the correctional officers in a prison, they all used to think

I'm gonna be future leader of Al-qaeda from the prison when I come out. But they didn't know I was in the CIA side, in the government side. My beard was up to here. I learned Quran. I read Arabic. Right. I learned for at least four months Arabic. I become imam in prison. Among terror group, me, white Caucasian, to lead terror groups, you have to be step-of-head to know this now more than them. Especially when they know, to the people who were interested in the CIA, I used to tell them, look, they kidnapped my daughter. I took this blame. I was not Doing this crime. I was not involved

You know a lot of the fanatics when you tell them you got arrested coming from Pakistan They don't think you was coming because you was involved from drugs. They think you was involved with Al Qaeda So right away the trust came out for me to become very powerful in a prison. I was strong in a prison community. And that's how CIA advised me, build your reputation in prison so when you come out, you can be straight inside of Al Qaeda high ranking position. So there was a long play right from the get go. Yes, sir.

It wasn't just sort through these guys to figure out who they are associated with. It was building your reputation. Almost eight years, almost decade. And learning Islam a lot. Like I can freely sit in a debate with any Islamic scholar. I'm good, knowledgeable, any Islamic scholar. I can talk about religion, no different from Al-Qaeda members, not food soldiers.

We talk in high-ranking Al-Qaeda. That's how they accept me by testing me how much, what kind of knowledge I have in religion. Then it came out very easy using my family, how they hold my child like a kidnapping. How long were you working for the CIA inside a prison? from September 12, 2001 to the day I was released, December 11, 2007. All these years. I worked with the CIA, I want to be very clear, I worked with the FBI, the Counterterrorism Unit. All the agencies used to come and talk. Every time. Anything.

Sean, it was a lot of different terrorists, it was a lot of different terrorists. It's a lot of different members. I had Akshata Ibe from the Virginia group. I had the Iraqi war there, Ali Timmimi, Ali Shandia. All these they are in Florence, Colorado. All this group, they was getting arrested after the war in Iraq. So it's not like just little bit Mickey Mouse.

It was a lot of groups of people, a lot of dangerous people. So I was always among the most dangerous groups of the terrorists. It's not like something small, not like a foot soldier like Lakhawanna Six or the the I'm gonna come back to the story in 2016 when I met the leader of Al-Qaeda in a group of five in New York they got arrested, but we don't want to change the subject from this part to the end of the subject You know the story because we're gonna come out as the leader You know the story because we're gonna come out I asked the leader You never believe what he told me how he wants to go become a leader of ISIS was the reason why he wants to become

Leader and why he wants to become ISIS member. I was in shock What he told me I was in shock We we talking in a prison where he told me why he wants to become ISIS member. Why? He wants to have a woman. He never had woman in his life. He wants to go get those slaves over there, those Yazidi and take hostage of woman in Syria. This is only reason he become a jihadist. That's it. Crazy.

It's not for religion. It's a girls religion. Absolutely. And I can show to you, he's now for religion. It's a girls religion. Absolutely. And I can show it to you, he's now in prison, in a federal prison. I said, brother, are you crazy? You telling me you want to fight for the sake of God because you never had a woman. I can date woman anytime you want.

You in America, he's a born American. It's not a convert. He's a born US. And he wants to become an ISIS member. He's the ringleader of one of the five of the group. He said because he wants to have a girlfriend. He wants to have a slave. He wants to have three, four wives, five wives over there. I know the guy who shot another jihadist just to take his wife, that's not Islam. We're going to come to the point you will never believe it.

People are not going to, they're going to say this is crazy. This is like you want a prostitute. You don't want to fight for the sake of God. This is how they brainwash them. Wow. Did you ever feel like you were compromised in prison? Like anybody was on to you working for the CIA? Look, I will tell you this.

I'm sitting in a yard. I have a lot of tattoos in my arms and stuff. I have AK-47. I have a tattoo right from his Bulan member, his handwriting. And I'm sitting in a yard with a tank top and one of the informers Albanian he asked me what you have here I have a AK-47 and it says God is a great and I said that's Bin Laden's name but he doesn't know Arabic in 24 hours son FBI come in my in a federal Remember, not all the agency used to know I have

I'm a connected to the CIA. You know, it's very strict control. They don't share the information. It's not like a lot of times I was informers used to give information about me, think giving information to the government, I'm a terrorist, I'm a very fanatic, but I was linked to CIA, you know, I was never fanatic, but people, I was interviewed from FBI in prison, I was interviewed from DEA in prison, a few times from the FBI, and this guy, in the morning, they're calling me, go, RBMB, meaning you're going to visit the room. And I didn't have no visit. And when I walk in, two FBI agents.

I'm sitting down. My name is so-and-so. We want to know what kind of tattoos you have in your body. They put me in a strip room naked. They looked at my tattoo. They're taking pictures of my tattoo. Can you tell me what you have? I said, this is God is great. This another one I'll be a witness there is no God but Allah. And another part here, here I have Islamist religion of

peace in Arabic sign of peace, all this thing. They're taking picture and i love i started laughing with fbi said i'm sorry sir we're keeping between us informer antoine gave you yesterday information i was in the yard working out he asked me about this don't depend on with this informer and i told him straight up i work for cia straight in a prison. I told him the FBI if you don't believe call so and so and then they never came back. They said I'm sorry if you are like that we apologize. They walk away they took him former from the prison right away because they thought if I go back in the prison I will stab him or something because I'm a leader to Muslim community. In a prison I would stab him or something because I'm a leader to Muslim community. In a prison, Sean, when I was a leader of Muslims, I used to have bodyguards.

I used to have Muslims, there was 150 Muslims. If I was given order, something to do in prison, I couldn't put the prison shut down completely. There was going to do whatever I was telling them to do. It was a time I had to prove myself. I'm a good Muslim. I had to beat somebody a few times, not once. Two times I used to beat a Muslim. One Pakistani Muslim, one Lebanese Muslim because they had a problem with a gang group.

Now gangs, not to stab them, I was ordered to prove myself. I'm a good jihadist. I had to go beat them in the bathroom. I had to stab them. I was ordered to prove myself I'm a good jihadist. I had to go beat them in a bathroom. I had to beat them while I was bleeding. So I can prove myself I'm a fanatic, I'm a sympathizer, I'm a jihadist. So I had to do that and the CIA knew it, FBI knew I did that. SIS, the best ever in federal prison, I tell you this, he has your past 100% because he was with Navy and Marines. Lieutenant Lyons, the best ever man of American deal in my life. Lieutenant Lyons, I hope you hear that, he was the best man. He knew it everything what I was doing with CIA. Every connection, every conversation I needed,

I was going through him. Every special things I was needing to do, special visit with my family, he was just telling me, Blair, when you need to do that, next week. I do it for you. That was the best ever from American agency who treat me good, does the Lieutenant Lion.

from American agency who treat me good, that's the Lieutenant Lyon. In a FCI Allenwood penitentiary. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about what happened after prison. Bon Charge is here to help you optimize your life with evidence-based holistic wellness products. Bon Charge can help you perform at your peak

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Go to rocketmoney.com slash SRS today. That's rocketmoney.com slash SRS. Rocketmoney.com slash SRS. All right, Blair, we're back from the break and we're did where you're getting out of prison now. We're getting ready to go. And I feel like we did the whole feel like that was a whole interview in itself. Now we get into the real meat.

But I am curious, I mean, what was what does the agency think that now that you're out talking about this stuff with the documentary and have you had any contact with them? I had one time after I got my granted refugee status from the immigration phone call for two minutes, private, saying like, you don't have to worry too much now about documentaries and stuff. Just enjoy your life, you know, keep yourself low profile.

And here you are. Look at, Sean, I'll be very honest. If I had to go from beginning, I swear to God, I would do it from beginning. It's just the mistake of the agency. They promise you, they promise you the biggest problem. I want to highlight this, the biggest problem of the US government. When you have a source, like me, for example, give a chance to have somebody, if I have a question, because if I deal with the agent,

I dealt for a year and a half. If he make a mistake, I have nowhere to complain or to ask questions. Everything has to go through one. The best intelligent, you have to have another second source, you know, to see what's going on. If the agents make a mistake because I know agent I was not perfect John I mean I'm sorry Sean I was not perfect but I was the best when you said why and people want to know why the best look I was not afghani I was not Iraqi I was

not Syrian I was not Jordanian I was not none of I was not Jordanian, I was not none of this. But I came out to operate all of these places. I believe strongly if CIA was still going on to support me and work, I believe strongly I will go meet Bin Laden. Not that I want, he will ask to meet with me. Because I came out to meet very high ranking leaders. And you know in terrorism this is how they go. The way they got my record from the people in a prison families, my name. That's how they go. Oh you know what? The Amir, let me see what he is. If we want to make him a leader in Balkan to recruit Al-Qaeda members or how we can use. That's how terrorists work. They're desperate to have somebody like me in a group.

It's a white Caucasian, somebody who have skills to pass any airport. Sean, believe or not, if you tell me today, can you go in this country? I promise you in one week, I can go in any country you point. Today, the way I'm exposed. If you tell me if you can travel to any country you said one week, 10 days, I will be in the country you say. I have no problem. I'm not young, but I still, my head works. I can do still things.

And the government agencies, sometimes they have an issue among themselves sharing the information. We're going to come to the point. There was an issue with them. They're trying to recruit me again after I came in the US in 2015. But they said a lot of agency has to be in a loop. You know, I was not exposed yet. The biggest problem, the biggest mistake they make with New York Times. When president say this a lot of fake news, trust me it's a lot of fake news. Why? Because New York Times put me in the first page.

I was arrested for jumping something. I was never ever shown arrested in that. When they arrest me, I don't want to come to the story. This is like to the ends of the story. When they arrest me in 2016, it was over 50 agents arresting me. Bin Laden didn't have that kind of agents. Helicopter with a sniper was on top of my car wash arresting me. Bin Laden didn't have that kind of agents. Helicopter with a sniper was in top of my car wash arresting me. And when they arrest me, I'm reading the names of the agents, they all from New Jersey, not from New York. But in meantime, Sean, I'm meeting with head of the intelligence of New York, John Miller.

I was meeting with him like with you, with him and five of his workers in my lawyer's office why would you burn somebody who's meeting with John Mueller? Well I mean I think they keep that tight to the vest because the more people that know the higher the chance that it leaks. No I think it's more than that. Really what do you think it is? It's you know Agents agents that one problem. They like to cover each other Even if you're wrong, they want to cover because when I give information Sean, I want to be very clear It's I didn't talk about this

wonder Al-qaeda told me not to be in a blue area in Pakistan, I updated to CIA. Sean, I can tell you, I was communicating worldnewsrap.com. I had my code and everything. And when I update CIA, I said, look, please tell them if because it was in blue area, a lot of Americans I see because I was there. I watched, you know, them them they don't know who I am but I know them I can tell when it's supposed to if it's a American agent or not like you for

example I can tell why you in that hotel when I tell them please share this information because it's in a blue area they're trying to send suicide bomber believe or, less than I think 24 hours there was a suicide bomber and killed all of them. And he failed to update that. When I came to provide the information from the field, back in the Balkans from Pakistan, he said, fuck, I fucked her up. I said, why Chris? I failed here. He couldn't update it. That's why all these people got killed. I was not spying in an agent but if he make a mistake he should say you know what I'm sorry I was late. I couldn't update the, provide, update to the CIA this information. I did update it from over there right away. I said look it's gonna be tomorrow after tomorrow suicide bomb in this area and it was suicide bombing I think four

or five Americans got killed so I don't want to credit I don't want to nothing I didn't work this job because I can make money I make money in normal life mm-hmm it just respect me said you know what let's help him why he got to go through the process of immigration when he was working for us. I didn't want it to be hero. I don't want to have a medal of honor, but at least you know I did that.

I have my family here. Who wants to do this dangerous job? It's very hard, especially when they start hearing this story. Look, while I talk to you, I know who works for the CIA today from my country. I found out in my way, it's nothing. It's piece of garbage. He doesn't even know nothing. So you cannot have somebody in charge

like that person, for example. They take him to train him. They train me too. I received training too. I was trained from CIA. I don't hide that. You know, I'm capable to do anything you tell me you want to do bomb I can do the bomb is no problem and do you think Al Qaeda don't want a member like me even I'm exposed today they will take me tomorrow even if I'm

exposed until this moment they will still take me they want a man like me but why you want to avoid to have to CIA somebody who can help me? I couldn't translate thing. I couldn't even decode the phone conversation. I know how they communicate the terrorist so why you want to like make and Look, it's it's a crazy. We we talking like it's very interesting part. I have I had the sources I was receiving information from inside of the job of the CIA just recently Look at who I am. I received a lot of crazy stuff from the CIA in Virginia

We're talking it from the base. How what CIA? Told people about me CIA tried to spread the rumor very bad about me. It's not to be trusted. How can I not be trusted? You burned me. And then they said, oh, we cannot, one of them said, we're not denying, but we're not accepting, you know, hey, I'm coming. I show you the picture with the Stinger missile. You think in US soil soil you show that picture and you don't get indicted from the federal prosecutor in heartbeat. But I was a CIA spy. I don't regret that, never. To the day I die, I'm proud what I did. And I told my kids, if I had to do again, I would do it again. But at least treat me, man. I deserve to be treated, you know. Tell him, look, judge, this man doesn't need to be in immigration court. It's our man.

It's not easy to... It cost money to train somebody like me. It cost... Hey, agent came from here to train me overseas. I was in a training camp from the agent from US. So you spending all this money and losing the source like that. Come on. It's not normal. We'll get to it. Go ahead.

We'll get to it. But I mean, were they paying you? Yeah, they were paying me. They were paying you? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it was a business transaction that you expected to do more? The highest amount I did receive one time, over 40 grand, one shot, 40 grand cash. And so I guess what I'm saying is you are expecting more from them than just the payment,

just the business arrangement. No, not the payment. I was never accepting no more money. Just to tell the immigration judge, look, he deserved to be with his family here. He did for his family. He has a wife born and raised here. Every country in the world, Sean, they give a chance to somebody. I did mistakes in the past. I'm not clean.

I'm not saying, but I deserve to have a second chance to be with my family. I don't need to be arrested in 2016 and expose myself. They couldn't be low profile, give him his papers back and let him enjoy his life here. He deserved, he worked for us. He put his life in a dangerous to protect us, to save our country. So why we don't go and just give a,

just signature, paper. I didn't ask for anything, just a paper, tell to the judge, he deserved to be here, let him be out with his family. I was $50,000 bond, 50 grand here for five years. And they investigated. Sean, they recruit a woman who cleaned my room, my house, I'm sorry, overseas and give her paper today.

They brought her from overseas. She was cleaning my house in the city I used to, I was born, I was alone, I was paying her, I feel bad. Family member, just what she's tell them, I have a weapons. See, I knew it, I love weapons. I had the trucks, This is this room. It's nothing.

It was four times, five times bigger than this full of ton of weapons. But we pulled with the CIA from bad guys, from Al-Qaeda members. It was not my weapons. Was the initial arrange, well, let's we'll get into this. Yes. Let's get into the interview because I think maybe some clarity will come to me on on that. But so how did you get out of prison? First time or second time?

First time. I got I finished my time. You finished your time. I did my time. Eight years. And so eight years and four months. Just to backtrack the I thought that they had they had contacted you again to infiltrate the terrorist networks But that was that was the long game. They wanted to They wanted to start with you in prison for a longer

So I can be in a street work of this. Yes. Okay, so you get out of prison What happens then? I'm going to the US Embassy in 2008 walking in, asking, because before I got out of prison, I want to just so it can be clear, two times I was interviewed from DOD, Department of Defense, two months before I got from the prison. They tell me, when you get back home, you want to work for us because maybe you're going to look good if they deport you

I said, yeah, no problem. And what's gonna be exchanged? We'll bring you back when we promise you we do it We're not further. This is always the award when we promise you we're not a federal prosecutor CIA keep the words. This is what they tell me They promise me they're going to be bring me back. Help me They said, you are going to be safe for rest of your life. You're just going to keep your mouth shut, not to expose anything. I couldn't keep my mouth shut if you left me in the middle of nowhere. I get interview, I'm going back to US Embassy in Macedonia, walking in, meeting Mr. Devin, the best ever CIA agent

I met. If he was still working with me, I would be maybe more happy. And I hope you hear that. Mr. Devon, he's the one who I started working with them. I did polygraph tests, I signed the contract agreement, everything at the embassy. And they tell me from today, you work for CIA. You have a paycheck, you have all expensive paid, all the travels, whatever you're gonna need it, we are here to support it. All you need, we need it now, you to collect information, to see if you cannot come up to Al-Qaeda.

We are interested to know if it's been added live or dead. And if you work yourself in a circle of Al-Qaeda, we'll be very happy and we're gonna help you. And I said, I have no problem. They helped me, they was giving me money, no question. They paid my vacation for my wife and kids in Turkey and all these things, it's no problem. And even today, even today, I am very grateful to the immigration they allowed me to stay.

Today I'm clean with the laws. I have no issues with the laws. Absolutely. I'm like normal, like it's just the problem I cannot travel overseas. They don't give me no document to travel overseas. I can be here, enjoy my life. I'm working, paying taxes, everything, but it's still not enough.

It couldn't be, you know, right path. My wife is born and raised. I have right to do adjustment of status so I can become U.S. citizen. My wife is born here. Every country who has a wife citizen, they still can give a chance. They don't deport them. My three kids are American born. My family is all American.

Mother, father, sisters, brother, all of them, even they passed away, they was American citizen. So why you abusing me? Why you went? I would never go in a media or documentary, even this documentary, if they was not going to arrest me in 2016. But they arrest me, I look like a piece of garbage. You trained me, you know how much skills I have. What do you want? And I believe, I also believed, Sean, sometimes maybe, you know, some different informers, they want to get the credit, they think maybe, oh, he's going to become terrorist.

Never. I commit suicide myself. I hang myself. I will never go against the country my kids born. Never, ever. It's impossible. So maybe informers spread these rumors to the sources or maybe Bleremi can be Al-Qaeda member or ISIS member.

Never. Sean, Gant, repeat it. I will never, I will hang myself, never be Al-Qaeda member or ISIS member. Never, Sean, again, repeated. I will never, I will hang myself, never be Al-Qaeda member. No terror group. I have a beautiful kids born American. I don't go against my family. So you get out of prison, you get deported.

Yes. And then you go through immigration at the Macedonian embassy where you meet your... No, I have nothing to do with immigration. I'm going to the Macedonian embassy meeting with CIA agents. In embassy meeting with the CIA agents. How did they contact you? When I go over there, they put me in one room, small room.

I give my ID. He came down and he said, give me a half hour. He go in office. He said, welcome back. We know who you are. All the details, he said, we're gonna have to meet the next week. How did they initially contact you?

Was it a phone call? No, I went to them myself. You went there yourself? I went to the US Embassy in Macedonia myself. So to see my rights to come to United States. And then they told me, we know who you are, come here. Then they make a meeting next week with me. We spent six, seven hours.

They said, look, we know what happened with you. We know what you did in the past. We know what the prosecutors did, but this is the best time for you. Everybody knows here now you got deported, We know what the prosecutors did, but this is the best time for you. Everybody knows here now you got deported, how they got arrested, your family, holding them, this and that. It's the best time for you to be covered, to work for us, and we can bring you back. This is my first step, how I started with the CIA in 2008, field agent.

Was there any discussion to pay at that initial meeting? Payment? Payment? I had in beginning, first week I started with 400 euros, 700 euros, 1200 euros, then 2500 euros a month and the whole expenses and they said we're going to help you to be with your family. Nothing more than that. No extra payment over this.

But they said, always we're going to keep you safe. And so when did you take the polygraph? I think after a month or two. If I don't make a mistake, my first trip in Pakistan when I came back, just to see if I'm double agent or just for the CIA. How long did that take? It took a couple of hours, three hours, I think thing two hours one polygraph one one time. Yes, it passed the first time Yes, first time I passed right on not a lot of people pass. I passed first time and they told me and they told

Look Shawn, we're gonna come to the stories. You will never believe what I did it and Even people they're gonna say, where are you lying? I don't, Sean, in United States, if you make a story, you commit perjury, you get charged. It's a federal crime. I cannot come and say, hey, this is who I am or this is what I did. I cannot come and say, I was trained to build a bomb

so this way I can show to terrorists I can build a bomb. So if the federal prosecutors know that, in two minutes they will arrest me. I say that a few times. So you get recruited, you have the meeting the next week, what is the next week? Then, the next week meeting we signed the contract. It was three agents, two male and one female. I remember like today, we spent like five, six hours that day in the embassy. And then they instruct me first, they said, build enterprise in your city among the community. And then next trip start using the phone contacts you had in a prison.

I had them from Yemen, from Saudi Arabia. I was guest to number one, the strongest grand movie of Saudi. I was invited. He never knew what I was CIA spy. I was his guest. I used the sources from family, prisoners, from being in terror charges. That's how I came out to build my name so good. I didn't even believe there was a time I didn't even believe they trust me so much.

I said to myself, if I'm a sick or liar or something, how come they invite me so much? But I found out from the people. I used to use sources, you know, just to build my reputation, they can bring me in. And so what did the training involve? You said you received training. With the CIA? Yes. First there was how to communicate with people, language skills, and then they advise me how to do weapons deal in case. So this way, if the Al Qaeda tried test you, or if you need to pull some weapons,

they teach me how to do this too. Like we put a lot of bombs and explosives from bad guys hands in the Kosovo, in Albania too. So I took with the trucks, all the explosives, TNT, C4, you name it, rocket launchers, stingers, all of them and all with my hands. When the CIA took them, they took like in a package, like all, they, when they bring me trucks, CIA brought me trucks They trucks I Loaded the truck myself with my people, you know, you have to take the detectors and all this, you know

So not to explode so I took one by one all the detectors all the explosive We have mines land mines all this stuff put in a truck and the CIA took it and the destroy it And so how long was the training? it in a truck and the CIA took it and they destroyed it. And so how long was the training? It was a... like... like... I can tell you easy. Like three, four months you can put all this training when I meet with them. Like every first week, second week, eight hours, nine hours, eight hours.

It was a time, three days we didn't never come out from the place with the CIA. Three days. Sleep day and night. How to deal, how to communicate, how to use the weapons. Three days, never come out from the place with the CIA, with three agents and me. Where was it? Where? In Macedonia. In Macedonia. Yes.

They used to have safe houses everywhere. Then they used the bone steal in the military base in Kosovo. And so you get recruited in Macedonia. Yes. You go through the training. They tell you they want you to infiltrate Al-Qaeda specifically. Yes. And they tell you to do it through your previous contacts in prison and just to grow your network even wider.

Yes, sir. So who's the first person that you reached out to? The first person I was sentenced 25 years or 30 years in a federal prison for supporting Al Qaeda. His name is Salim. He was in prison. He introduced me in his family in Pakistan. And what did you ask him? I told him when I come out from the prison I'm going to join brothers. Everybody knew it. When I come out from the prison, all the fanatics, all the terrorists, knew it the first day they're going to deport me,

I'm going to be joined the jihadists. All of them. And who did he connect you with? With... first he took me his brother to somebody and that's how it started with the Betullah Massoud, the ringleader of Al-Qaeda in Pakistan. So right off the bat? It's a second time. Second time?

Yes. And what would these meetings be like? When I went... when I meet him, when I give all to them, they took all my clothes off. They took me with those motorcycles. They changed the car. They played. Look, I want to say this so people can know. I know sometimes they don't trust easy, but they use word, oh, we're going to put you in a trunk because of the checkpoint is police We are from here local. So if they see you foreigner, we're gonna give them more Excuse to question ask and to check us the Pakistani agency

So I said, okay, they put me in the trunk of the car for a few hours. I was riding inside of the trunk I didn't see nothing roughly roads and whatever, you know, then one day put me inside. I met Abu Muhammad al-Masri the is still wanted He's still in his life because I was reading one of the books recently for Abu Ali Sufyan He did it. He was a former CIA for 10 15 years after 9-11 He wrote the book and I see his picture, the one I was meeting with him.

He put in a book he still wanted, so he was there. It was another jihadist from Egyptian, but born in, fought in Bosnia, he speaks Bosnian. So when he speaks, I speak Bosnian too. So when he talk and then he tell me, brother, you still wanna be with brothers? I said, be with brothers I said that's why I'm here for and then he got hug me and he said to introduce me He never introduced my name to nobody only Amir or Abu Medina In a so not to be known where I'm coming from so Amir or Abu Medina is our new

Mujahideen with us Wow, were you nervous at all? I mean not at all because I had the strong support Abu Medina is our new Mujahidin with us. Wow. Were you nervous at all? I mean, not at all, because I had the strong support. Only nervous. I was just afraid not to be leak. So then I get killed. And how would you communicate back to the CIA?

Worldnewsrob.com. I tell you, here is a, I give you the detail. CIA never knew it. When I was in a field Sean If I had to update quick something I used to call my wife and talk to her in Albanian And she was updating but this is what I broke This is what I make a mistake because I was told nobody can know this but my wife know it I told my wife Sean I. I told my wife, Sean I told my wife because I thought if I get killed they're gonna think I got killed in a drug dealing or something. At least somebody to know I'm

working for the government so they can be one day proud. Look my husband got killed working for CIA not being drug dealer. So this is the reason I told my wife. So my kids grow up, they don't want to hear, oh my dad got killed in a drug deal in somewhere in Pakistan or overseas. But to be proud, my dad was killed because he was working for our agency to protect us, to keep us safe. So this is why I told my wife. And then when I need to update it, I give a code to her, worldnewswap.com, and I have all those numbers to click it. And then she was writing whatever I tell her in Albanian, because over there was more easy somebody to spy on me if it's a different language in Albanian.

It was not Albanian. Nobody was Albanian over there. In Al-Qaeda at that time, it was now, yes, but at that time was nobody Albanian, only me. So I was feeling safe and I was telling my wife, okay, tell them this, tell them that. And then she was going to computer and updated. CIA never knew it.

My wife is updating from New York City. They always knew it, I'm updating from somewhere, those internet cafes and stuff like that. But I did it also in internet cafes. I did update the CIA and I used to look around with poor neighborhoods. I used to go like I'm looking some Quranic stuff and then I'm going to my website. Then I'm deleting complete and I'm coming on. But I was always careful because you know when I first time I give oath, I stay I think three, four days if I don't make mistake in Al-Qaeda camp.

Then after four days, I went back and stayed in a guest house. So I had the chance to update. There was like, there was not Al-Qaeda, Sean, Al-Qaeda recruited me the way I saw. They thought I was going to be leader to recruit foreigners in Balkans. This was the goal. You know, not me to be like a foot soldier the way you saw in Iraq

throwing RPG and stuff like that. They was not looking at me like that. They were looking at me like to be high ranking Al-Qaeda. So this is the interest of Al-Qaeda in me. And this was the best opportunity for CIA to have me like that. And so what was it inside how would worldnews.com work? I will show to you if you want to learn from my phone. It was very like you go and you click in world news, it comes news. Then you have in a site login. You don't think if you don't know the website. And then you have a login.

When you go login, it comes a little small place. You put your code, your numbers. I had the numbers. I don't want to mention that. I don't want to, you know, something expose is not good. And I was clicking that. Again, it was giving me another code. And then it was opened me.

And those communication you see, right in typing. And then logging out and disappear everything. Another option I had, I used to have some white papers somewhere when I travel. And if I need to write it, I will rewrite it. If they stop me, I can put that white paper in a wall and it melts everything. And you don't see nothing no more.

You just put the white paper. It dissolves. Yeah, everything. Would they be able to send you traffic through worldnodes.com? Yes. And I used to have also GPS some places. When I used to be in a weapons or if I was in danger so if I was tracing something or I want to buy something, I used to, you know, click it and they used to know what button I click it and they know where I am,

the location. So it's connected. It was a small piece like that. A beacon. Yeah. What did it look like? It's like a yellow and black. It's you don't talk. You just, it's a tracing device and has those buttons. If you, if I was in a dangerous, I will put a clicker three times and they will try to help me if I'm in a dangerous situation. So if it's something for location, I used to just click one. If it's for weapons, it's two times. Only three times I was a piece to click it if I was in a danger, so I needed help.

It never happened. So I never needed, I was never in a situation dangerous. Wow, that's surprising. That's surprising. And so you, okay, so let's go back again. So you get the training, you meet with the head of Al-Q in Pakistan, or one of the top guys in Al Qaeda in Pakistan. And the whole premise of all of this was they wanted you to set up a new cell of Al Qaeda where you're from. Become a leader.

And become a leader. Yes, sir. Become a leader of Al Qaeda for Balkan. What did they want that cell of Al-Qaeda to do on the Balkans? So to see if it's going to be threat. If it's a threat to US troops, if it's a threat to somewhere, if it's a threat. Because it was planned, we're going to come. It was a plan. They thought I'm coming here to attack.

With a few guys. For example, I have a... Today it's... with a few guys. For example, I have a today's, now we say they are our friends, like a new leader, but I know somebody who's in a group, you have in a picture, he was in prison with me, he got deported. He would never ever be pro US, never.

And I was close to him like my brother. And I know him like, if he can't nuke us, he will nuke today. But maybe today, the thing is now become a good friend. It's a freedom fighter of Syria. It's not. He's a leader of freedom fighters in Syria now, but he was an al-Qaeda member. He become ISIS member.

And I used to come, we're gonna come to the point I used to communicate live from New York City. FBI was telling me to communicate with them in 2015, 16, 17. No, not 17, I'm sorry, 2014, 15, 16. I was communicating live. I spoke to leader of ISIS from New York City, Abu Omar al-Shishani, live like the way with you but through the signal.

I was talking, he bagged me and I told the FBI, look tonight 10 o'clock I'm going to talk to them and I give the number and they hear that, they see it. We talk in 2015. He said, please brother, come to us. We'll give you anything you want. We need you here. This is ISIS. Wow.

They taught you how to make bombs. Absolutely. What kind of bombs? With TNT C4, all kind of explosive I can do with pressure cooking things all those you know homemade stuff mm-hmm so everything I can do anything you name it I can do it I'm a good in a guns I'm a good with a weapons I'm very good okay I can tell you I I use I shot with you name it all the US military weapons you name it I

shot with every one of them. Snipers, RPG, it's a piece of cake. Those kind of weapons is nothing to me. I'm like that. I love the guns. It's a compromise in both things. Training me and in my nature, I love them. I cannot leave no guns.

Your training was building networks, surveillance, counter surveillance, how to make deals, how to make bombs, weapons training, communications training. Do you want me to give you one specific one time when we were training in, when we were with agents in a field with the CIA? They throw me somewhere in the middle of crowded community and they want to maybe three, four cars of CIA to follow me with their sources if they're going to catch me. You never believe. Whole day they watched me, they couldn't catch me.

Whole day they followed me. And you want me to tell you what I did? Second quick plan of me. I went in a mosque. Now they know me that day. I was with tactical clothes with the 511 black. So now CIA agents they follow me. They see me when I came from the truck, pickup truck. They know me Blair was with a tactical and I'm walking in a mosque. Now

they're waiting for me where I'm going to go What I did, Sean, I went, you know, in a mosque, sometimes you have those galebees you can wear so you can be praying clean, and the scarf and everything. And now all the agents, this is how they're smart, 10 or 15 of them, I don't wanna, you know, insult them. So now they're all waiting how I'm gonna come out, you know, with the black clothes. I wear all the white clothes, I took a scarf, you know everything and I walked out

Yeah, all day. I walk away from them. They couldn't find me in the evening when we was a place to meet they all Watching me what they're gonna catch me. They couldn't find me nowhere. I'm just knocking to the window and They got stuck window and they got stuck. Oh man. This is, this is the trainer they had. And then when I told them, now, when I knocked the window, I'm knocking them with a black laws. They said, please tell us right away how you come out from the location.

And I put the, you know, those clothes, they become like that. And I put them out inside of of my shirt scarf and everything I said this sir. Fuck and told me how you thought you're gonna wear this so quick because I thought you guys gonna watch me with the black clothes did you was our training was you know if you're gonna catch me yes so this is my skills so I need to do whatever it's good for you not to catch me This is what I did Maybe you should be trained in them. I think so. I tell you do I think so I should train them Who would have thought they would have never thought of a change of clothes

When we're gonna pull the weapons I'm gonna come to the point when we pull the weapons. Mm-hmm. They was drunk. You can't believe we're pulling, like, this room, weapons. Two or three CIA agents are all drunk. They couldn't even talk. Imagine you make a small mistake, all the city goes in the air. Yeah. And I did all myself with them in my city

with American agents and Then you don't want to come to the immigration said let me sign for him. Come on Mm-hmm. And so okay, let's let's back to Al-qaeda so you meet with al-qaeda That's the plan they want you to set up a terrorist cell in the Balkans. They want you to lead it, be a high ranking Al-Qaeda official. And so where do you go from there? I go back to Balkans, update all the CIA, whatever I went through. And then Al-Qaeda thing, I'm recruiting.

And I did bring a lot of people. A lot of people was interested to be Al-Qaeda members. But I give information to the CIA. How would you recruit? Oh, very easy. Europeans, Balkans, as soon as they find out you come from Pakistan, as soon as they see one stand, you've been in Pakistan month and a half, they know right away why you've been there.

They see money. The recruiters, they thought Al-Qaeda financing me, but I had the CIA money. The Al-Qaeda thought they helping me in Balkans people like from the charity, because it's no paper. You know, Al-Qaeda cannot trace me when I'm getting the money. In Balkans, they cannot trace me, but CIA knew it. I had all the money from CIA, all the new bills. Whatever I needed, they was offering me. Anything, here's the money, sign here, get the money.

And so what was your pitch to recruit? To see who wants to be Al-Qaeda members. And how would you broach that? How would you start that conversation? Oh, brother, I was meeting our Mujahideen brothers over there, alhamdulillah. You know, they're doing good, they're interested to recruit brothers, you know, so we can fight these infidels. They're very easy in that. And especially in the young generation, it's like nothing.

Like, really? No, look at, Sean, today, my country is becoming a breeding ground. Even like 90% is pro-US country, but two weeks ago, group of seven, I know the leader. We're going to come up to talk about the leader. His leader was killed from the drone in Assyria. And just seven members, they went and killed the best cop in my city who was investigating them. In front of the house, they executed him. Just two weeks ago in my country.

All Al-Qaeda members. If I tell you what kind of threats I receive in my first interview before, crazy. And I come out to even investigate myself, who threat me? I cannot even believe some people that threat me, if I was next to them, they couldn't even look in my face, how they would be scared of me. But they send me threat crazy. They're gonna behave me, they're gonna chop my head, they're gonna chop my pieces in messages.

I don't fear them. Believe me, I don't fear them. They're gonna chop my head, they're gonna chop my pieces in messages. I don't fear them. Believe me, I don't fear them. I don't have, look, I don't have no problem to die. I'm not gonna live 500 years. I have a little bit to go. At least my kids know what I'm, I'm proud. I have no problem.

I will be hero to my family if I get killed because I was working for a US government. Because I was protecting my family. America is not in a war with Islam, one, it's a lie, two, it's with Albanians. America is like God for Albanians. So I'm proud to die for America. I have no problem. My people in Kosovo, they will consider me hero. I don't care for fanatics and radicals, group of people.

I don't care for them. They're minority. group of people. I don't care for them. They're minority. For me, it's important majority. Majority is my people. How many people did you recruit? Well, I can easily say maybe 30, 40. 30, 40 people in one time span? Easy, like nothing.

Like nothing? Like nothing. Like a year? Two years? In two years. But we talking very fanatics. Like sympathizers coming to try to support you, maybe two, three hundred. And what would you tell them the mission is?

My mission is to open the cells so we can fight America here. I was appointed from Al-Qaeda a leader. I'm here to recruit you guys. And who would you specifically target? You can see how they talk in places when they was gathering. When we was in Muslim communities, and I picked the one, the more fanatics, when they say openly, we gotta kill Americans,

we gotta do this, we gotta do that. Those people I would pick all the time. So you fanatics, when they say openly, we got to kill Americans, we got to do this, we got to do that. Those people I will pick all the time. So you would go, you would essentially be friend, take them out. You would go to parties, you would invite them for food, show them guns. You would listen to political conversations. Show the guns all the time. I used to show the guns all the time. Look at what I have. I'm ready to fight. They used to see. Or sometimes I used to record myself with all kind of weapons. And I said, brother, you wanna see something black and white?

Yeah, here, look at the video. Oh shit, brother. You got all this thing? Yeah, I got everything you want. But those all destroyed. But I used to buy from different fanatics. There's a lot of guns over there. A lot of all kind of stuff.

How would you communicate back to Al Qaeda from Albania? When I go over there back. Always when I go back. Always in person. They never use phones. I hear somebody from here said, how this guy communicate with the phone? Sean, it's a stupid question, man.

It's no such thing you can sit on and make a love story in a terror camp, man. It's no phones. They change my clothes. They give me own clothes. So you have no rights. You cannot even smell to have some phones with you. But I hear the questions, they're writing,

oh, how this guy communicated, how he used the phone. They would never use the phone. I did not use the phone. I did not use the phone. I used communicate face to face. I was in the camp. How often would you go to the camp and go back? Like every, let's say if I stay one month in Pakistan

or one month in Syria, I go back, stay two, three months in Balkans and then I come back Remember I was in al-qaeda camp In capital of isis where they declare capital isis raka. I was there you have a video life and you know how I come to Record that I said look we need this video I need to record for propaganda to act like I'm a visitor But also to recruit people and they let me record that in a camp

Not outside in a camp, but this is why I'm saying now This is where I use the language what the CIA trained me What I need to learn and how can I use things? So you can tell them look we need some video to show people to recruit who I am. If I go tell them, this is who I am and I don't show nothing, how are they going to believe you? So you got to show them. So this is what I used to use skills of the language. So to recruit them and to have evidence where I am.

Okay. And so how did you, where did you go from Pakistan? I used to go back to Balkan, Turkey fly Pakistan Turkey Turkey Pristina It's a couple of months come back go to Syria go to Jordan go to Lebanon Egypt Saudi Arabia Why would you go to all these places or everywhere fanatics? Everywhere CIA point somebody they used to tell me we want to know so and so what I think They used to tell me who they was interested. They used to show me pictures on them And how would you get yourself in them? How would you get yourself with the reputation? There's a reputation to the imams in my city

Imams in my city everybody know now I did eight years and eight years and four months in prison I was deported. I was separated from family. I cannot see no more my family only if they come back. So now they think this guy's gonna revenge them. He has a long history of in military, two different wars. This guy's not gonna play, he's gonna go revenge Americans. So this is the dream for me to do these things.

So what would the point of view, I guess what I'm asking is what is the point of you going from Pakistan? to Syria to Saudi Arabia to Iraq Did did you go to Yemen because I had the sources everywhere Yemen was my last ship that day I was going to meet Allah lucky. Mm-hmm before we get there Yes, just ask him so you went from Pakistan and the Balkans to Syria was your next stop. Yes, because I used to have a fanatics in prison.

And through them, for example, I had a Syrian guy. I go meet in Syria. So this wasn't a connection from the Pakistan cell to the Syrian cell. This was all back from the contacts that you had made in prison. From federal prison. So you were working all of your contacts from prison to get into all these 100%

And now did the pegas did the Pakistani? Al-qaeda cell know that you were in Syria. Yes, they did. Yes. What did you tell him? You were doing in Syria? I'm meeting the brothers. I used to be in prison. They have a family members to Al-qaeda And they had no inclination. No because remember Only in Al Qaeda can know somebody who controlled Al Qaeda a couple of men one two three people Where they are the cells and stuff not all the Al Qaeda members know everybody it's impossible never never happened that know everybody. It's impossible. Never. Never happened that. So let's say Bin Laden who was running Al-Qaeda after him, he used to know for example who's who, where. But not everybody else. Like we have Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Bin al-Shiba, Abu Zubaydah, all

of them. They didn't know all the members, but somebody who had the control, it can be one or two. Not all Al-Qaeda. How did it go in Syria? Al-Qaeda? Yeah, when you met him. Me how I go? I go met the man who used to be. It's in a picture.

He was like my best brother. When I saw him with 14 years old, 13 years old slave last time in 2015 or 14 I got shocked he showed me the slave from Yazidi lady woman girl I have a kids that age I said come on brother it's a sad our religion allowed us you are 45 years old what do you need that 13 years old I hated that come. I have two daughters. You're gonna take 30... He show me... I was talking to him life. He show me the girl 13 years old. Imagine I go back tell my child, my friend is 45 years old. He's having sex with a 13 years old. Come on.

This is a religion? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. If I can kill, I will kill everybody. I have no problem. Religion tells you not to bother them. Religion teaches you, you take hostage, you try to trade or do something, treat them very good and with dignity. Not to rape them. I know the religion very well. So they're going off the religion. It's nothing in Islam what Al-Qaeda does. They're doing nothing. I tell you I give you another example. Jordanian pilot got burned alive. Quran, Shariah, I started very good. Two years I spent only started the Shariah. Law forbids to burn human body, forbids. Regardless your enemy what he does to you.

If you believe in God, you have to pray, make a dua, make a prayer to God to change that thing. But not you go burn. So if you imitate the way they say you do in the way your enemy do into you then you becoming just like them so you're not following the Islam Quran and Sunnah you're going against complete Islam so this is what they're doing you were inside al-qaeda training camps three or four times. What kind of training are they doing? What was that experience like? Small weapons.

Like for example, one time I remember we went to one of the places like three, four hours driving from Karachi. There was like very old, those old houses, ugly garbage. We were sleeping 15, 20 of us in the same place, like a sardine stinking garbage. You know, and there was shooting with RPG AKs, you know, running, showing some skills, target, all these things. What were the conversations like? How to to kill Americans how to fight infidel

Mmm every word to fight infidel How to kill the infidel? What would you report back to the CIA the way I was seeing that? Everything the way they're telling me. That's how I the CIA I'm a CIA. So I was telling they want to kill infidel What what specific information did they want out of the camps? Specific for example one When I meet When I met the one this leader Who was wanted?

They asked me I was going to meet with him. They told me, you're not going to meet because maybe it's suspicious. You are a spy. Sean, he was wanted and I went and meet him. And I went in a court against him, in court, US Federal Court, in case if he get arrested, I can be witness against him. I went and meet with him. He couldn't believe. I can be witness against him. I went and meet with him

He couldn't believe when he saw me like that with a beard He hugged me. Now. He tell me you my brother now you can fight with us See, I didn't believe another thing I Want to say it? I think you have this passport or different one Sean. I was in Saudi Arabia You know when you in Saudi Arabia. You know when you're in Saudi Arabia, you cannot get visa to go to Pakistan. You have to be a resident of Saudi Arabia or citizen. When I say to CIA, they invite, they calling me from Pakistan to go to, to go to Pakistan from Saudi Arabia. CIA said, they're trying to scam me, maybe you're dealing with a low-level

Al-Qaeda or sympathizers. It's impossible for you to get a visa in Saudi Arabia to go to Pakistan. Sean, I got the proof. I got the visa in a Pakistani embassy in Jeddah. CIA would never believe. When I updated them, I sent a screenshot, they thought it's a fake. I took a flight from Saudi Arabia straight to Pakistan. They didn't believe it I said sir, I'm in Pakistan. This is my passport when I came back I want shirt back to back Saudi and Pakistan then from Pakistan when I go on went back to Balkans when I show documents They freaked out how this is Pakistan intelligence felt two days in a row. I was interrogated from The intelligence felt two days in a row I was interrogated from ISI, from Pakistan intelligence, in the embassy, two days, all day.

They thought, or I'm a spy or maybe I'm an Al-Qaeda member. I said, look, I'm here for business. I'm trying to open a leather factory business. I want to bring leather from Pakistan to Balkans. It's a BS. And I got the visa and I went in Al-Qaeda. See, I didn't believe. Even when I showed, said, how it's possible. It's a BS. And I got the visa and I went in Al-Qaeda. See I didn't believe.

Even when I show, said how it's possible. I said sir, we got to communicate diplomatically with them how they give visa like that. And I got it and I can prove it to you. I went in Saudi Arabia. I met with Abu Saif. He was nine years in prison for Al-Qaeda in Saudi prison. He was fighting with Bin Laden. He was diehard mentor of Bin Laden.

I met with him in his house. CIA said, how you got the source, sir? I'm here with Abu Saif. I mentioned his name. He was eight years in Saudi prison. See, I don't believe I was his guest. When did you start smuggling weapons? From 2000, right away after I was deported.

And so how would that work? So you're building, because you didn't mention that and so I thought maybe it came later And you were smuggling weapons from all these different terrorist organizations and getting them into CIA's hands to destroy them Correct. Yes, sir. And so was that was that part of the initial recruitment or was the initial recruitment just to know after I got recruit they see how much I'm having skills, I'm capable to do everything. Like there was... Look, when we did one mission, I don't know if I give it to you, there was seven agents, CIA agents and me. When we did one, we took the weapons and I asked,

I said, please, I wanna not to make me feel good. I wanna tell me how I did this job with this weapon. One of the CIA agents said, I would trust my mother to be with you the way you did the job. I will never be able to do, I don't have that kind of heart because I will be scared if I make a mistake, I will kill myself and I did that. That's how they spread me everywhere.

They want me now everywhere to be. And like I said, I mentioned, I thought like I'm better than James Bond. I was doing so good, I didn't even believe myself. But you know what is the good part? Sean, when you know you have support from a powerful agency, you have more will to do things. Because you don't think you can get caught

and put in prison. You're free to do things, like you can read the instruction. I'm free to do anything just not to kill Americans or diplomatic or anybody. If I have to shoot, shoot in the air. Don't aim to the... If you get caught up with US troops, you surrender yourself, pretend you're sick or something, but don't shoot. This is how I was my... I was instructed and this is how I did it. Whatever they told me, I did it the way they told me. What do you think helped you the most in your mindset doing this?

Mr. Devon Mr. Devon. Yeah, the best agent Star I Can I can tell you he can be a run in the CIA with no problem. I Guess the worst one Chris Chris why was he the worst the day one I got shot I swear God if he was aiming to Chris I would jump in a gun me to get killed not a CIA agent that's how I was loyal I I swear to God. Never forgive that. He left me like a dog.

He was there? Yeah. He left. He ran. When they come and rescue me, I don't see him ever no more. And he tell the other agents, tell him you're a new owner from today. Bullet wound everywhere. I couldn't even drive the car.

Let's talk about that experience. When you got assassinated what was going on that day? I'm going to get the. When they attempted to assassinate you let me let me correct you. Before that before March it was a February we supposed to have a meeting. We were planning to go in Yemen. In November of 2009 I received that threat in my phone. November of 2009. And I sent the phone to Chris. I said, I received this message. He said, don't worry,

sometimes somebody try to bluff and threat, but it's nothing serious. I said, okay. I was preparing my territory to go to meet with Aliiaulake. February he said Abu in a communication never mentioned my name always Abu or Sal. Abu can we change meeting of February for March 31st 2010 2 o'clock I said no problem please bring your GPS coordination the passport I had one extra passport from them and something I tracked somewhere from the weapons. I said, okay, no problem. And bring a two-picture passport, picture size of yourself. I said, okay. I go like a route usual. I'm parking my car under the garage, where is the CIA safe house, like super, super careful,

like very good not to trace me. I left the house 6.30, 7 o'clock a.m. changing to different cities, sitting there, sitting here to see if ever somebody follow me. Nobody. I go to the garage, two floors under, so if it's any trace and device, so not to track that. So I parked my car deep to ground down. I go, I'm entering the safe house. I see old man cutting the grass and I greet him. He has the white kufi. I said, you know, Salaam alaikum, alaikum salaam. No problem, it's carrying the flowers.

Big building in a penthouse, it was a CIA safe house. The way you see me stretching, in a stretcher taking out. I see two guys coming down, very calm, me. I'm between, I opened the door, enter, and now I see they got separated but I never thought I thought maybe the Macedonians entering and they pulled the gun shot me four times not once the first bullet went through my leg and I collapsed pretending like because there was not professional shooters.

They're not somebody who's trained. You know, I can see, you know, not having skills in that. And he pulled the gun right to my head, jammed the gun. I had click once, twice, three times. All he said, the Quran killed me. And I'm not moving because when I see the way I saw them, I thought they are like not the guys they have experienced

like myself, for example, I can control myself in a shooting and stuff like that. I'm very calm, not, you know, I didn't move, I saw blood everywhere. I said, let them go out. I was thinking, let me go in a basement because I don't wanna bring blood, maybe they're coming back. And if I go in a basement, they will come behind me.

If I go in fourth floor, maybe they come, they trace me basement they will come behind me if I go in four floor maybe they come the trace me and they kill him and me it's a moment I said to myself you know what I'm gonna die I'm not gonna betray them I don't want to think CIA or he was a double agent killer agent I stayed for a moment blood was not stopping I pull myself quick I couldn't move much I stayed for a moment, blood was not stopping. I pulled myself quick, I couldn't move much.

I started bleeding a lot. I thought I got a van here, but I couldn't even look my leg because bullet went through. So I didn't know where I got shot. I see bleeding here, bleeding in the back. Like it's a quick moment. I went to 4th floor. We used to have a court. If you see newspaper in a floor in Macedonian writing, so that means Chris is inside. So I don't have to put the keys to neighbors to hear I'm opening the door. And I see Chris inside and he said, happened. I said I got shot

He said who did it? I don't know two people I'm going there. He pulled his belt. He pulled my belt He tied her up is you know, I stopped bleeding and I see he's calling for backup for you know To help us and he's talking continue talking, continue, our man is down, our man is down, I need help, our man is down. And I can hear that he had this different phone using with them, saying we are in a way, we are in a way, we're gonna rescue,

just, you know, careful control situation. Bleeding and I start losing the control. Then the, I guess, neighbor saw the blood, the local police came over there, and the secret police came. They almost clashed with each other, local police and secret police. Secret police supposed to be our friends from Macedonia. So now Chris is talking to them, it's our man is down, but he's not opening the door. And all I see when they open the door, I see AK-47 right in my head. Now I say, they're going to kill me because they see me with a bear.

Now he's a white, clean American. I'm with a bear. Now they're going to think maybe I'm trying to kill him. You know, it's 10, 15 people, two different groups of agency. It's like... And I lost the control. Chris gone, they took me with the stretcher. They sent me one day or two days in one hospital. And that moment when they came after two days,

they gave me a stash of money. I don't need the money. They said, from today, you're in your own, from hospital. That was it? Yeah, that's the worst part. How did you get burned? It's a good question, million dollar question. Sorry.

I've been through everything in my life. I may repeat that many times today. I don't have no problem to die, but to be betrayed like that? Come on. Central Intelligence Agency, the strongest agency in the world. You rushed into judgment. you didn't investigate anything. Cameras everywhere. Sean, I went after one week, sorry. Wanna take a break?

Yeah, a few minutes. Let's take a break. Alright, Blaram. We're at the safe house. You get shot. I can tell you're very disappointed at how the agency treated you after that and abandoned you. We asked, how do you think you got compromised? I mean, I'll bet that's gone through your head day after day after day.

How do you think you got compromised? The way I looked at one day they did a passport for me and the passport they did it it was real my name but I was not from that country. The people who did the passport they stopped me one time in a border for four or five hours investigating me. Me I was with three or four fanatics. One of them was arrested for terrorism in the border. Same people who came out to help us that day when I got shot, same one was there. Sean, you know how Balkans function? Regardless how friend can be over there with

you, they still have like a family like me. I have some trusted person. I tell, look, I know this. So I strongly believe agent make a mistake, leaked me my name and they leaked the information to the fanatics, this is what happened. So now for him not to be blamed, I don't know what he put in my jacket behind to the CIA. He can say anything I don't know. At CIA they never asked me. So he could have said anything, but they never give me give a chance to hear my voice like today. I did nothing wrong. If I have to start again, I would die for this country. If I was that day, the guy was trying to shoot Chris, I swear to God, I will put myself in front and get killed. Never betrayed.

It doesn't matter. This job is dangerous job. I'm very proud what I did. I did for my kids and I did for US. And I say that early, all my family is Americans. Albanians has nothing to do with terrorism. At what point did Chris leave? That day. Did he leave when the police showed up? Yeah, they took him. Yes, the Chris left that moment when the police, two groups of police came, one supposed to be our friends

because we used to have a court. If it's friend of Chris,'s me not they are our friends so when they walk in that day it was our friend supposed to be and after all this I investigate I did research myself Sean somebody who was trying to help me March 31st he he got killed. May 9th, after a month and a half, him and three, four friends. Maybe he became victim because of me. He was trying to help me. He got assassinated. If you see the van, you will never believe how they kill him. Because he was trying to help me to find out who tried to kill me. How did they kill him? In a minivan, the executive.

Four guys, not one, all four of them. All four my friends. In Macedonia. If you see the van, you would think there was fire, 10,000 bullets in that van. He was trying to help me to find out who tried to kill me. Somebody's covering up somewhere. Sean, I went after six days, April 7, my birthday is April 8, one day before my birthday,

at U.S. Embassy where I was recruited. I was with a can. I couldn't even walk. And I parked the car right in front of the embassy so they can see it I entered the embassy somebody came out to talk to me they told me in embassy you cannot drive no more that car from the agency from the CIA don't drive no more don't come here no more CIA. Don't drive no more. Don't come here no more. Don't come to Macedonia. You are in your lawn. And I tell them simple, how come it's a cameras in front of the safe house everywhere? How come you guys didn't find out who did that? I don't know, sir. I'm just passing a message.

When I came from the embassy, Sean, in the Macedonian border, I was threatened from Macedonians agents. Cursed me badly. Don't even effing come in our country this that I'm a friend of Chris. He's telling me at the border and I tell him straight up, eff you and him. If you want to kill me, kill me. So something is behind covered. So what is something? I will advise in this interview. Intelligent Agency, US Intelligent Agency is the best. But they need to investigate the source sometimes. It's nobody perfect.

I'm not perfect. I did make mistakes. I was not perfect spy. But trust me, I was diamond. I Operated everywhere. I was never exposed never was nobody suspicious in me I did very good, but I was not perfect but agent maybe make a mistake. Why don't question him? Why you want to lose the source Sean? I can say to to you, this is, I want you people to hear that. Believe me, I'm better than 100 CIA agents.

I was better than 100 CIA agents. I was. CIA agents, they can do job. Don't take me wrong. They are intelligent. They have the money, they have the sources, everything. But I was inside. CIA agent couldn't go where I went.

CIA agent couldn't sleep between al-qaeda members. I slept with them with 15 of them. I was in Iraq sleeping with 15-20 of them. Imagine one of them just smell I'm a spy they will burn me life but I did that but CIA agent would not do that so this kind of heart I had so if you have a man like that why you want to lose him I hope they listen and they correct the mistakes they always have a source if they have a spy let's see what he said maybe the agents make a mistake we don't need to rush the judgment and just ban him Let's help him. So to find the true what's behind who's behind I? Mean unfortunately, this is kind of how it works, you know, I mean they recruited asset to do the dirty work

I mean, it's in the outline throwaway spy. Yes, and That's just how it works. But the best will be to make changes. You want me to advise you one thing what US, complete US agency government did with my help one thing good. And I know I don't care that I want to honor that Sean here used to be very easy to make a U S passport. I shrugged them how it's easy. And I'm not saying a hundred percent just my help, but believe me, U S passport

rules was changed because of me. I teach them how to change because there was pizza cake to make a US passport a piece of cake Two days you can make it. It's not you and you can get US passport United States change that Because my help I used to I told them who doing that from inside job How they're doing a lot of people got the passport even terrorists couldn't get that and me I blur them score I teaching that but they never say that they always that moment said you

did very good job but after who cares I did a lot of things good but they don't care. That's what you say it. That's how agency works. If they have that, they ban you. This is how they never come to admit or accept. I was in touch with a George Tenon two times from federal prison. Remember, I mentioned that with George Tenon twice in 2003 and 2004, two times with the head of CIA from federal prison. So if I was like that person,

changing your agency, I don't need to know that, but have somebody to investigate that. You know, make agency stronger. We need sources. It probably has more to do with blowing their own cover. The absolute assets. Yes. Once your covers blown, they don't want the rest of their, their, their staff,

their employees burned so they could continue on doing work. But so in the hospital, you said they came to you in the hospital with a stack of money. Yes. And what was that conversation like? The conversation was we're going to escort you to one of the borders night time. They asked me to escort me to Albanian border. I said no. They escort me to Kosovo border.

They give me the money. They said you have to be on your own. Don't ask to speak with nobody from US agency. You have to be safe. Then when I went after six days or seven, April 7, they told me to get away that car. I found two tracking device in my car at a mechanic shop. Under the car, two tracking devices. In that car, CIA purchased from me. And that's the car that they said don't drive anymore?

Yes. What point did they tell you, have a nice life, don't go high profile? Have a nice life. Don't go high profile. In... after my immigration case finished in 2022. So they were in contact with you again after the embassy? Two minutes. Private, no name. Friend of Chris. That's what they said. This is a friend of Chris?

Yeah. Bashan, you see how I'm sitting with you. Believe it or not, I used to get the information from inside CIA in this few years from the source, who's very close to the CIA, American, American, not Albanian, American, who's very close to CIA. And the source told me what they were even saying about me. What were they saying? It's crazy. I don't want to even, I feel bad to say it.

Why? Because like they use you, they use you and you're nothing. Like I don't want people to be scared to work for the agency after this. I don't want to use those things They they want to make you look so bad and the source telling me source is very close to CIA every day with them Source will run Iraq situation war So they don't think I came out to get to somebody who I can get things Person who was planning in Iraq side, in Iraq war, three four years. And this is what they're saying about you. I said why? Sean if somebody wants me to be bad person maybe I believe strong that too

they want to have a business more work so maybe this guy go crazy no Sean I'm proud to be American maybe somebody has a crazy ideas what were they saying about you it's I don't if I say it. It's no good people to hear that Did they paint you to be a double asset no though never Never double lesson like who can do that job where he did it's it's it's bad to say it in the air I don't want to you know, because people gonna think then Hey, I would never do this job If they say that about him like that

They're gonna say that about me same thing So they completely washed their hands of you yeah and then In one way or another painted you out to be bad. Yeah, and then came back after after 2012 13 14 they still want to communicate with me. They call my lawyer in New York City He's in US soil, I don't know how to

We can take him from US soil And I told them I told my lawyer tell them you don't know how to, we can take him from your soil. And I told them, I told my lawyer, tell them you don't have to take me. You tell me what you want me to meet, I can come and meet. I don't need your help. You never helped me to take me somewhere. I came my way. We talking after I got burned, after I got shot.

Why did they, why did they contact your lawyer? What did they want? Because I think there was scared something when there was a Belgian bombing they thought I knew what some of those guys and Syria I prize the Isis they knew what I was in Syria. I knew what in from 2008 9 They was bringing weapons from Iraq Sean. I was there, I was witnessing trucks full of the weapons.

This is what's going to be. But I never knew the name ISIS because it still was Al-Qaeda. Then they changed to Jabhat al-Nusra, Dawla Islamia, then they changed to ISIS. But they're same people. It's not, they didn't go away. It's the same people. Al-Qaeda changed the name. It's the same fanatics It's never different. I had very strong source inside of the Syria

I spent three four months in Syria and They found out maybe it's a plan in US soil. I was communicating with them Believe or not somebody got Killed with a drone just because of my help. From New York. They told me to talk to him. And I talked. And they never said because of me they killed him.

But after two days I found out he was killed. But he was talking to me on the phone in New York. From Syria. But they never... We talked in 2015 2015 if I was bad like that why are you talking to me then so it's it which interesting is earlier you were saying all the communication goes through couriers person to person face to face that's it yes and now we're talking about you're on a phone call with one of the top guys in Syria who gets killed in a drone strike. Yes. And so when did that switch? When did they switch from one

ISIS? One that they was using telegram system they thought they cannot trace nothing it's Russian control so there was talking very free just now one ISIS came out okay in telegram it's that Telegram from Russia. So they was using that and Signal, two of them, and Signal too. So we was communicating with them through those two things. It was a time, I told them what time I'm going to talk to them from here, from New York. And there was listening listen in the conversation, Sean, viewers gonna want to know if it's true or not. Sean, if I communicate with the terrorist overseas

from US soil, you end up in US penitentiary. You get arrested in two minutes. So this is me, I was communicating from US soil with terrorist. If I was not CIA source, why I't get, why I didn't get arrested? If I'm lying, you know, because people look, you have a sick people everywhere. They come like one in Denmark, he worked for CIA a little bit for a couple of months and lunatic. He, now I hear this drinking and stuff. He was not Muslim. He was converted in Islam in a prison, but I was not like that.

I was strongly skilled person. Are they aware? Do you think that you're coming on the show? I don't think so. Are they aware? No, maybe, maybe these two three days they listened my conversation, but if they're going to like it, I'm hundred percent, they're going to hate it. I'm hundred percent. They're going to blame in you. Why this guy bring this Source here now

Who knows people how they're gonna think for us how it's gonna be our image Are they aware of the documentary? Oh, yes, that's what they told me. Yes, they told me, you know go stay calm with your life you know, you don't need to Expose yourself in that two-minute conversation. That's what they told me but I, you know, you don't need to expose yourself. In that two minute conversation, that's what they told me. But I said, I don't need advice. I don't have no problem to die. I wanted people to know what I did. I'm not dirt person. I'm not garbage the way you think.

I'm a normal human being. I'm father of three beautiful kids. I go on live with normal life. What did they say about the documentary? They didn't say nothing. I didn't steal here after nothing. Did you tell them you're doing it? Oh yes, yes. And they didn't say anything? No, they didn't say anything. I told them I'm gonna put the book and it's gonna be six episode movie also. After the documentary I'm planning to put the six episode movie. And I know they do still have a contact there. I don't contact them. They contact me. I don't contact them.

You know, we missed, Sean, when I got shot, there was one more mistake in my side. You see, I say it. I have no problem to admit my mistake. I had a secret number. If I'm in danger situation, I say it. I have no problem to admit my mistake. I had a secret number. If I'm in danger situation, I have to call that number at the CIA, which is Washington. It's free, I can call from everywhere,

only if it's a dangerous situation in my life. Like if it's threat something, I can call that number, so you can help me. When I didn't call my wife because I told her if I don't call 48 to 72 hours you need to call this number and she called them the answer what is the message related this is a message from Abu and what is the message I can take she said said, my husband disappeared. And the phone after that is disconnected.

And she tried to call again, no more ringing that phone. That's the mistake I make in this. All these two years or 10 years working with the US intelligence agency. And one time with the weapons. I, the way they told me to with the weapons. The way they told me to do the weapons, I guess they thought I was not capable to do in professional way, not to be dangerous. I did it good. And we changed the spot.

We're going to get the weapons, Tash. It was crazy bombs, land mines and everything. And Chris was with a crew, with two, three cars, with the CIA. And I changed the spot. He came in my city. I told him not in my city because everybody knows in my city, know me. God forbid one human see me with this beer and six, seven people, Americans, with clean shave, I will be suspicious right away. So I did changes myself. I switched the place.

I told him not in that place, but through the communication, not in a plan. Like last minute. And he got angry in that. I said, I gotta save my, I gotta be safe. I don't wanna expose me, and you're gonna tell me F yourself and you're in your cell alone.

I changed that spot, I did the job excellent. All I did that mistake to change the job and my wife calling the CIA. Two mistakes I did with CIA, the rest never anything. I was perfectly clear in time, whatever I was instructed to do, I went 100% According to the instruction from CIA. Where would you procure the weapons? I used to have a... Were these coming from Syria, Pakistan, Saudi?

Were they weapons? In Balkans. They were all coming in Balkans. All in Balkans. But the uranium, it was coming from Russia. Through the Germany, we did investigate and it was possible. They want to build a dirt bomb fanatics. They want to sell it to me knowing it's going in Al-Qaeda's hand. There was a lot of money involved and we were investigating that. One of the source, one of those two brothers got shot. We're not mentioning the name because still they investigate it. Still it's under, you know, I don't know what's going on with government, but they still out there.

One of them got shot, I guess, because this issue and, but his life. They tried to assassinate him one of those two brothers this is the issue I was involved directly with them we was trying to put hands in that because they thought it's a common it was a missing nuclear head from the former from that time Ukraine one they give up to the Russians so that is still saying it's a missing So they thought maybe does the part it's coming and it's coming in Al Qaeda's hand So the Russians were selling Al Qaeda uranium. Yes, what year was this?

It was in 2009 8 or 9 you can look in the communication. It's clearly over there And you were involved in that? I was 100% involved. How did that, how did you get connected to the Russians? Through the fanatics. Through the fanatics? They bring through from Germany to Italy, from Italy to Albania. And so why were the Russians involved at all?

I have no idea. It's a good question. If I know, I will say it. How easy is it to get uranium in Russia? It's very hard because you needs a lot of skills. You have to be real professional in that part to deal with that. Seems like it would have to be somebody inside the government. Yes, 100 percent.

Did they get it to him? I have no idea more. I know he was there because we were going to purchase. I have no idea more. I know it was there because we were going to purchase. See I was telling me, hold on we're gonna have an expert to do this, you cannot deal yourself. So if we get that you're gonna be disappearing, you're not gonna be able no more to work. So we have to have our men to deal with that, You just have to keep them hold. You bind that. How much uranium? They were saying it can easily kill half a million.

How many bombs are this going? Three or four. How many bombs are this going three or four And they would have El Sucada smuggle it into the US yeah, do you think that happened Look if Is that Plan why didn't happen until now and again? Terrorists need to get lucky one time And again, terrorists need to get lucky one time. Not all the time.

Once they have a patient. Sean, those people are not joke. Not everyone. But the brains are really smart. That's why they want me in. After I got shot in 2010, they begged me in 2014 to go back, to be a leader after I got shot. And the best source I had, he knew that I got shot.

But he never thought I got shot because I was spy he thought maybe our secret agents they want to assassinate me so I'm not a fanatic so I cannot attack US so maybe it's inside job from the government of my country or or neighbors Serbia or Macedonia So they try to execute us it's innate me so I don't do something bad What's the last time you had contact with them with us with the agency 2022 that's the last time? Three years ago. January 2022.

Six or seven January. Two minutes. Cause I'll tell you what's going through my mind. What if they got in contact with you to tell me that in this show? Oh, no, never. To drive a narrative never never ever I Never planned to come in your show. I

Was watching your show the best show? Seeing you past reading you CV They asked me to give look I mentioned New York Times, it's a crazy interview. Headline New York Times, number one newspaper. But to come here, I don't believe it. But if they're gonna like it, I don't think so. Well, there's a lot of higher ups that want us at war. We both know that.

I know very well and you know very well. Sean, if it's like that, you saw the story, you seen me. I don't hide what I can do. I don't tell people in the street, I don't tell family members. But this is who I am. So why you don't work with him to keep him quiet? It's very easy. You are the strongest agency in the world. You don't need to come and bow down

and say I'm sorry. No, absolutely. Just let him stay calm with your family. Here is your green card, US passport. Stay calm, enjoy. They give informer, Sean, they give a lady who was clean in my room. Look at this. I want you to see this. Listen. They give a lady with four kids. They bring her from over there here for nothing and you not giving me. She's a piece of garbage. Loser lady. She was deported from European countries involved in the crimes and they bring her because she was cleaning my room. She told them oh oh, he has a lot of slash weapons and you want me to funny thing joke when the immigration prosecutor asked me, do you know, do anybody has you papers ever? Guess what? I left envelope with some papers.

This lady to touch it. She did it and she give to the immigration that information. Just me and you, we know this, Barra, correct? Right now. If somebody else asks us from outside, you or me told them. So that lady told the immigration, that lady told the CIA, oh, Blerim has the weapons. That lady was cleaning the room. My house, she tell me how you got shot.

I said I got shot accidentally because I don't want to, it's a family, I don't want to be scared kids because gossip. No, I said I was playing with the gun, I got shot here. She told CIA the lie. He got shot himself. I never got shot myself because CIA helped me. Why CIA didn't go back and say, hey, why you lying? Somebody tried to kill him. You telling us he told you he got shot himself?

Do you understand? It makes sense to you? She tell them, oh, he told me he got shot himself, accidentally. With his gun. He likes gun. He shot accidentally himself. I don't shoot with left. I shoot. I'm a rider. I'm not laughter. I had no gun. You know, another thing we missed when I was in hospital. They came local police to see if I have a gun power in my hands.

They did that wrapping things with aluminum thing, they do it if I was engaged with shooting. I was not engaged in shooting, I had no guns. I never crossed, I crossed the border one time trying to show samples with uranium to the CIA and they tell me, please don't ever do that. It's very dangerous. And then one time it was something, an issue with some kind of size of ammunition we found.

I took it, I took it because I'm brave, I'm not scared. It's not like people can say is a sick. No, it's not sick. I have no problem to deal with the weapons. It's like somebody do draw the flag, I'm good with the weapons. If you're good drawer with the flag, I'm a good with the weapons. Mm-hmm. So this is how I am. And you taking a BS from somebody from nowhere,

from source who you had decade working for you. Decade, I spent from 91 to 2010, nine years. Plus after that communicating. Sean, you can see you're super intelligent. Look at who's John Mueller. John Mueller requested to meet with me. I met with John Mueller, head of counterterrorism unit, not the agent, head of counterterrorism, who met Bin Laden. John Mueller met Bin Laden 25 years ago. I met with him. He request to meet and I went to see him.

And I was, after I came from Canada, after I got shot in 2015, and two, three different time I met with CIA and FBI in my lawyer's office not once So if I'm bad like that, so why you want to meet with me if I'm no good So why you want to meet with me? And I will not come in your show I will not go in immigration or nowhere to Put my name in a dangerous and family name in the dangers And there was come and, you know what?

We're not saying if we make a mistake or not, we're gonna call the judge and say, the judge, you enjoy your life, get your papers and that's it. They never did that. They're supposed to do it. They told me, we're not like a federal prosecutors many times, not once.

DOD, Department of Defense, twice in your county, Pennsylvania said, Mr. Skoro, we're not like federal prosecutors. We are the Department of Defense. If we say something, we keep that. None of them. I have to keep my loyalty to you and agency, but you don't keep nothing to me? We got to work something together.

I'm not interested to make money of my movie and book and document. Trust me, I work. I can make a little money. My wife works. My two kids works. We work four of us. It's not really money.

It's no money to the CIA working, trust me. You get some money, but for me it's nothing. It can be for Afghani God keeper, you know, those poor guys, you give $500 or $1000. I'm not Afghani. You know, I can earn money in proper way. You bring in 200,000 Afghanis and you say they help us. No, those 200,000 Afghanis, they didn't help us. It's a stupid to think like that. It's embarrassment. We help them. They give up not to fight. They cower. I'm using this word. I'm sorry to use that. How come they didn't

find Taliban? Why they left all those weapons over there? Why they give up so quick? They didn't even fire a bullet. They run away. We spent 20 years over there. We spent all that money. We invest all that money. And now you bring in 200,000 Afghanis, but you don't want to help your source. You had a 10 year source who was working everywhere. What did they plan on using the all the weapons that you procured? How did they I mean, you talked about landmines and all of that kind of destroy all of them. They took and destroy it. They took it and destroyed it?

Everything. Whatever I got, all the CIA took it. Would the network that you set up in, shit, Slovakia, the network that you set up, would they ever ask where the weapons were There was thinking I'm getting for Al Qaeda But did they ever want to see him? No never because it's a strict rules Al Qaeda doesn't show nothing to you guys Mm-hmm. I cannot that's a too secret. Maybe if they asked me I would say though you a spy

You're working for somebody? Maybe you're working for Americans or foreign agency. You see the bathroom you have downstairs? I can say three or four times bigger than that place, I took C4 from the terror group, just C4. Two or three time least, like that bathroom you have. Full, not just a little bit, full. Two or three times at least. Like that bathroom you have. Full. Not just a little bit.

Full. Yeah. This with my hands. And all give to the CIA. I did never problem. I never caused no damage. No CIA was ever hurt or something. Everybody was safe and good.

I did everything myself. How did you get back into the US? How I came back? It's very easy. For me it's no problem to come to US. It's no problem for me today after 10 days to be in Afghanistan. It's very easy. It's all open border. Sean, I always keep my sources. I always have friends. My good friends, they know I will never betray them. I will die never betray them. I'm very loyal, but I'm not loyal to terrorists.

But I can be your friend, I never betrayed you. But not to terrorists. I'm not loyal to terrorists. But to friends, I'm loyal. I can pick a phone. If I want to assassinate somebody, I can do that. I have a friend like that. So are you saying that you came back into the country illegally? In the US, yeah. Somebody drove me from Canada. There's no problem. You have an open border,

a lot of places. And so what's your status now? Oh, now I'm to stay. My status is granted from immigration judge. I have no problem now. I'm legally permitted in the US. I have no issue no more. I have no courts or nothing. I'm free. It's just I cannot fly overseas. And what do you do now? I'm a cab driver. Hell of a cab to get into. Yeah, but I never talk to the customers.

You don't? No. I don't think they would believe you anyways. Oh, it's not that. And I meet all kind of people. Sometimes it's interesting. Some people, they want to show off or tell you story and I don't buy easy. I have more skills than them. I was a car wash owner for 10

years. I had a car wash business. I lost car wash business because my bad friends CIA 2016 they're sending me team 50 people to arrest me in Brooklyn with helicopter with sniper They are arresting like arresting me like arresting al-qaeda leader. I couldn't believe it What did they arrest you for for nothing? Complained and they released me. What complaint? What was the complaint? They said the the prosecutor Here I can give you small details, the prosecutor who arrested a terror guy who was convicted in US oil overseas, when they came in Canada, they thought I was

going to testify something against. And the prosecutor convict him with my source information and he give credit to informers all my information what CIA provide to him and then he went against me saying he's a liar the prosecutor and then I go in a court in front of federal judge I said your honor I want to because I know now I'm not a mouse not to know my rights and I told the lawyer who was defending me, excellent lawyer, I have the best lawyers in the United States this time, before I didn't have that. Now I have the best lawyers in the United States

and they're willing always to defend me for free. I don't have to pay them. They're so good lawyers, they're willing to defend me for free because they know I'm honest. They know I put my life in the danger to protect Americans. They come, the judge say to the prosecutors, are you going to indict him? Prosecutor had no indictment. Sean, if you re-entry to US, if you have all these pictures, the prosecutor will send you

for life in prison. So they didn't do anything. They didn't do anything. They didn't do anything. And the same prosecutor, after one, you know, the worst part in the justice department are federal prosecutors. Because they work one year, two years, they don't work to stop a criminal.

They just work to build a little bit of reputation, to create experience, so they can be private lawyers, to make money. Because prosecutors don't make no money So a lot of people become victim for that The way I become victim But thank God judge make a right decision. I really appreciate I have nothing to say that judge is gonna be I have a I have all the recording like you see the way I was talking to you today

The judge didn't know I record all the decision I'm not supposed to do that But I was so happy when they make that decision like I'm a born for second time because my kids was there They see and they know what I've been through. There was all the time present with me They went in a pain the way I went. They suffer with me, my wife and kids. So the judge said, I cannot deport this guy. This guy is going to stay in my country. She make decision she was a lady. She grant me stay.

And I'm here. I'm happy with the judge, but I'm not happy with agency because agency couldn't do that, me not to be here. Sean, agency, I still couldn't help the agency a lot of things. Even after my assassination attempt, I couldn't help them a lot. I was more brain than them not from all of them not like Devon and Scott those Devon and Scott I dealt in the beginning there was brilliant agents Super good CIA agents and the one in a federal prison lieutenant Lyons. He was former Marines

He was excellent. I will Welcome to work again with them. But the last one, crazy. Would you do it all over again? Absolutely. Even knowing how they treated you? Yes. With no mistake, no second thought.

Just I will put one condition. I want everything black and white in a paper writing. The way agents work inside of the agency, I want like that too. If you're not going to have me to have that paper because I signed contract with them, if I cannot keep that paper, my kids cannot have that, then I will not. But if you offer me that, I will do it from beginning. And you don't believe how much is country in the dangers today, you're not gonna see that today.

You're gonna remember my interview with you after 10 years, how much more I see it in a country. How it's fanatics growing in US. How are they growing? Badly. I mean I see it. I know they're recruiting out of the little bit you see. One eyes it's me different because when I see what they how what they're reading I can tell it if they're gonna be bad to the country. You know, one Imam tells you, hey you don't need to ask me all the time, fight for your rights, do what you have to do for your rights. That means he's instigating you, he's preaching you, he's brainwashing you, you to do

something. That's bad. And the US agency failing badly. Another thing, they have no control of finance. How much money they give, US government have zero control. And that finance goes in the bad people's hand. You know why it's quiet today? Because they want to grow. In fanatics, ideology is this this I can easily tell you that the ideology is a sick ideology because they can they wanted to get strong with finance so when it's time to fight you they can fight you they're not making peace with you they're just quiet they're telling you yeah like a situation in Syria. But

when it's time, they will fight you back. We help Al Qaeda and Bin Laden in Afghanistan. You know what the CIA agent, I read his book, I don't want to mention his name now to advertise him. He said we offer him over half a billion dollars to Bin Laden in his book. You can read that. Just to come in a TV and say I'm giving up jihad, I'm not fighting against crusaders, I'm going to live in Saudi Arabia. He said no. I read in his book he was 25 years CIA agent in his Bin Laden unit, investigated.

That's what he said. So same thing happened today. A lot of breathing of fanatics is there but the agency is failing. You know it's a joke. The biggest breathing come from the prison, from institution. Crazy. You don't believe it. I believe it. I tell you the way I see it, it's crazy. And we're going to feel the pains after 10-15 years. But it's going to be too late. Shaun, it's here. You asked me, it's easy to get weapons. I can get weapons much as you want in United States. Give me the money, I can buy you anything you want. Anything you name it, I can get you.

So if I can get that, you think one day terror is not gonna get that? Of course. Oh, I know they're getting that. We talk about it a lot on this show. I see it. So look at me. I see that what's going on, and I tell you that,

and you don't wanna source like that, that come on I can make a living anywhere you want if you know you want to understand my mind what I think if you throw me in the middle of Atlantic Ocean no clothes no money I come out from Atlantic Ocean with clothes and money. This is how I trust myself. This is who I am. I don't see movies, but I'm the person you're dealing now. I can do things. I don't need attention.

I don't need my name to be there. I can be very low profile like before and do things which benefit you and the country. I didn't got no benefit. Did you see me how I was emotion? It's 54 years old, it's very hard broken you know to come to that point. You betrayed me. Why? You have a man, I can die for you. Why you don't just give me the handset, let me pull you? You don't need to drown, I can help you. I'm a normal human. I love my kids, I love my family.

I did everything for my kids and family. Somebody who loves the kids and family. Somebody who loved their kids and family, he would not hurt you, never. Because when I saw that they jumping from 9-11, 83rd floor people jumping, I saw, I don't care what they're saying with conspiracy. I was thinking to kill that guy in my cell because he was happy seeing them.

I swear it was moment, I swear to God. I'm telling you, believe or not, I was thinking to kill that guy, that terrorist guy in cell. I believe it. Come on. I wanna be happy, people jumping, people who feed my kids, people who help me all the time. I'm gonna be happy, never.

Religion, I will ban my religion. If they push me like that, I will ban. I if they push me like that I will ban I want to live normal human being I rather be with my kids normal than be judged like that oh look at what I did killed innocent people I don't have to be in a problem in a war war it's a war war it's a war But not the way they do it. Taking hijacking a plane or blowing yourself in the supermarket. That's not a war. Come on.

Well, we're wrapping up the interview. Do you have anything in particular you want to say? I hope right people listen to this. I don't want attention. For me it's quality of the people to hear this. I'm not against nobody. I'm against terrorists. I was never double, never one side. If I was double, I couldn't do a lot of things until today. A lot. But I'm proud who I am. A lot. But I'm proud who I am. I proudly serve this country.

I deserve to be treated just a little bit like you, man. Not too much, just a little bit. Well, I would agree. I hope everybody enjoys that. Not taking wrong my interview. Well, they're going to enjoy it. I hope so. Thank you for what you've done for the country. Thank you for being here. my interview. Well, they're going to enjoy it. Thank you for what you've done for the country.

Thank you for being here. And I can't wait to see that documentary hit. Thank you very much. I'm honored to be in your place. It's an honor to have you. I'd be very honest with you. When I saw your shows, I said this is my dream place to be. The way I never mentioned every code in the banks and stuff, one day you have to put something

password, I put my dream job CIA. So this is who I was. I'm a Muslim, but my dream job was CIA. You might want to change those passwords now. From now on I have to. Sean Ryan. Alright, Blar. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it, man. I really appreciate it. Former MLB All-Star Sean Casey, aka The Mayor, keeps hitting it out of the park.

Take my 30 years of experience. Take the wisdom and knowledge I've learned from the failures when I got sent down my rookie year. All the injuries I had to overcome. Your mind is the most important tool you have in life. Be relentless. Keep charging. It matters how you talk to yourself, how you look at the world. That matters. We talk about that.

I don't know, I'm fired up. Baseball's back and it's gonna be incredible. I love it. The Mayor's Office with Sean Casey from Believe. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.