Shawn Ryan Show - #2 Travis Kennedy - Navy SEAL / BUDS Instructor

Episode Date: January 13, 2020

In this episode Shawn Ryan sits down with Travis Kennedy, a former Navy SEAL, BUD/S instructor, and currently the CEO of KDS (Kennedy Defensive Shooting). We start off discussing the tension and unrest within the United States in regards to the president's response of an attack on US Embassy in Iraq to coordinate a drone strike on the Iranian General Qassem Soleimani. Shawn then gets into the details of Kennedy's broken home childhood, and how he overcame all odds in becoming one the United States' elite Navy SEAL Operators. Travis takes the audience into the details of what combat looks like as an elite operator. Shawn then digs into Travis's transition from military life to civilian life, how the FBI decided he was not a qualified candidate to work for the organization and how he moved passed that denial. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to treat depression, anxiety, and other mental health conditions. Visit genesight.com for more information. So you're going out every day. You're getting getting a gun fight outside of your fob. Then you come home and then you get a deal with the base getting hit. How many engagements would you say you were a part of in that eight months? Do you have any idea? I lost count, who's that many?

Just to put that in perspective for it because most guys don't think about this. That's 180 fucking engagements. They're very first up, the Hilo crashed. Oh shit. Kill everybody. One guy survived. I want to take a call. I have your dad on the line, Jim.

Hey, Jim, how's it going? This is John Ryan. I was always curious how he was going to be filming. He actually landed in an Afghanistan with the team at the first point there. I was always curious how he was going to be found when he actually landed in Afghanistan with the team at that first appointment. I kind of just in the back of my mind, hope that you understood, or at least somewhat understood, what I was actually going to do. Yeah, there was definitely a lot of emotional things in the end, but I still have that call

it clearly. I didn't want to run under him. I don't know how emotional I was. Fucking every night, right when it's sundown, these dudes are just smashes with small arms, and they would be effective. A lot of times when you lose guys in a combat zone, and you know them, it'll create a type of ritual. Did I do anything?

I'm gonna take another call. We got a mutual friend on the line. It was there, that whole second appointment with you, Jeffrey. Dude, I am doing great. How are you doing? And there's a picture with you, Jeff Reed. Dude, I am doing great. How are you doing? And there's a picture of you and Jeff, and another guy's face that's blurred out.

I'm never shooting a cue set off on that mount up at the mountain. Hell yeah, I do. Welcome back to the Sean Ryan show. Hope everybody had a good Christmas, good holiday, a good new year. We released our first episode on midnight on Christmas Eve, out of 800,000 podcasts and an estimated 30 million episodes. We ranked number 73 on the top charts overall, right off the bat.

Thanks to you guys for heading over to iTunes, listening, subscribing, and most importantly, leaving us a review. If you get a chance in haven't done it yet, please go over to iTunes, leave us a review. If you get a chance and haven't done it yet, please go over to iTunes. Leave us a review, even if it's only one word. That's all I'm asking for doing these. With that being said, I'm ready to kick off episode 002. We have a 13 year combat veteran Navy SEAL with multiple combat deployments. He was a BUDS instructor.

This one really strums the hard strings. We get deep. It gets emotional. Guys, this is better than entertainment. This is the real thing. Please welcome Mr. Travis Kennedy. All right Travis, I've been dying to meet you. You're finally here in Tennessee. We're in my studio. I can't fucking wait to get started.

Jeff Reed introduced us a couple of months back over the phone. And anybody that's a friend of that guy is a friend of mine. And I just want to say it's a real pleasure to finally meet you up and to have you on the show. Thank you, man. It's been a long time coming for sure. True pleasure to even be sitting right here and spending the weekend with you.

Yeah. Yeah, that's, this is awesome. I want to dive right in here and I'm going to give you a tough question. Right now, the hot topic on the news is I ran. We just killed Soleimani. And without going too far in depth into your background yet, you're a team guy, you're a seal, you're an operator, you've been on multiple bases, maybe embassies, fobs,

but you've been on government facilities in combat zones that have been hit numerous times. I wanna hear your take on our president's decision to fire up that drone strike and take out Salamani. Yeah, that's been a definitely controversial topic, at least from what I've seen lately. However, my opinion is that these decisions aren't made rationally. They're not made hasty, they're very strategic and thought out, especially with a guy like

Solomoni. This is someone that's been on our list for a very long time. So, President had to make a difficult decision, but a decision that in my opinion needed to be done. And at the end of the day, we're getting rid of a terrorist that has been responsible for hundreds of, close to thousands of deaths, you know, Iraqis and American lives. So, we're doing the world a favor by getting rid of this guy. Yeah.

Yeah, we may be, there's always risk on the table. And these decisions are made every single day. Some don't even come to the spotlight. But all these risks are weighed that are not just made blindly. So. Yeah. I mean, as a guy that's 13 year Navy SEAL, multiple combat deployments, well over 100 engagements, fighting off terrorists that are trying to kill you, I mean, what does

it like to hear people say that they're upset that we killed a guy who's responsible for thousands of US lives and they don't support it. They don't think that we should have retaliated and me personally, I had friends that died in Benghazi and we saw what the fuck happened when we don't do anything, when we don't send help and when we don't, you know, stand up for our guys that are over there fighting for the fucking freedom

that these Americans have at home. Yeah, it's really, honestly, it's truly mind blowing. I try to ignore stuff like that. All these people online, but it's hard to miss, especially with this. It's the reaction of people getting mad because he may stoke another war, another conflict with our rent. We've already been in conflict with our rent for a very long time, was still continuing to be, we have no good relations with them.

They're not a friendly country whatsoever. But just one instant because it's been blowing up so much. And most likely because he's such a high level guy that people want to go high and write knee-drick reaction and think this was so horrible that he's going to cause a war possibly, but I think people just need to understand to educate themselves and why these decisions are made,

because these are made all the time. And people don't know about it. But I hate seeing online, I hate seeing people going uproar or stuff like this. Yeah, I think seeing people going uproar over stuff like this. Yeah, I think, you know, it seems like, you know, you never hear anybody who actually did anything for the country speaking out against things like that. It's always the people that are sitting on their fucking ass back in the rear enjoying the freedom that we fucking give them. And, you know, maybe those people should just shut the fuck up and enjoy what they have,

exactly. But, all right, enough about politics. I hate them. I get pissed every time I talk about them. But I want to dive right into your childhood and, you know, kind of where you grew up and how you grew up and eventually what led you to become one of the world's most elite operators as a Navy SEAL. So where did you grow up? So growing up, Southern California,

grew up in a city called Huntington Beach. It's a beach town living in California. I mean, I was just a punk kid growing up, a skateboarder just doing shenanigans at a younger age, bouncing back and forth between mom and dad, they were divorced, typical broken home, sharing time. When did they get divorced?

I don't even remember. I was an infant. I was so young, I can't even remember when they were divorced. I can't even remember when they were married. It was that long ago. Okay, so you never... I've never experienced living, at least from what I did at one point when I was a baby, but even remembering living with them in the same household, married. So, I grew up like that. It was a normal, that was a normal for me.

But so, going back and forth between mom and dad growing up was normal. It was a pain in the ass. I actually like spending more time with my mom than I did with my dad when I was younger. Really? And I have no idea why. Even looking back, I was just... I like to call myself an idiot because now me and my dad are like... Mom and dad are super close, but me and my dad are like, we're, we're, mom and dad are super close,

we're my dad are super tight. But I think it was because at the time my mom was dating someone who had a son, he was a little bit older to me, and we're like brothers. Okay. Did everything together, always hung out, we're skateboarding, always fucking off. So naturally I was inclined just to wanting to be there all the time. So never wanted to go to my dad's. I did, but not often without bitching. That's surprising me because I've researched and you on social media and

listening to your previous podcast, I can tell that you're you're and your father are extremely tight. My question is, if you're so tight with your mom, what is the thing that kind of drew you closer to your father? As I got older, yeah. I think as I matured more, I just kind of realized that he was my father, you know, as a father figure, and I just wanted to be around him more. You know, as I probably around 14, 13, 14, I wanted to spend more time with him, and we

became closer. Because my mom was just dating this guy, they ended up separating. So that older, his son, we all like parted ways. So that kind of got broken up. So then I was kind of left without him. And then I just kind of leaned towards, can naturally just went towards my dad. Okay. And we became a lot tighter.

I spent a lot more time with them, so I just want to admit, once I hit middle school, and then go to high school, but still the same thing, still sharing time throughout the whole process. What were you like as a kid? Were you,

were you like a nerd, were you studying, making good grades, or were you a hullian out? Yeah, I told you that. Growing up was like a punk kid younger, like middle school. Just a punk scape order, just doing shenanigans, fucking around, I was a mediocre student and elementary middle school junior high.

Probably just mediocre. I didn't really try that hard in school. I was more focused on especially when I was younger and just fucking off. And then towards the end of I would say middle school going to high school and then I started tightening up. I was never really an overachiever in school as far as grades are concerned. But I got into sports and that kind of changed my mentality. It wasn't really until I got into high school and started playing like lacrosse and started in a couple other sports that I really started maturing. Okay. Seeing what the next move was in life. You know, I heard on some of your other podcasts as well, they assumed that you were from a great family it sounded like.

And I think I heard one say, you know, a lot of guys that go into special operations or even the military from broken families. And you didn't say a fucking word. They just breezed right over it. And my wife actually picked up on that first. So you're not from a picture perfect family and hunting to Beach, California. Absolutely. And everybody thinks.

You've got some shit. Yeah, most people think and it's fine that people from SoCal, especially those beach cities, because they are wealthy cities, you know, born with a silver spoon in my mouth. Yeah. Got everything I had, perfect family, everything all are shit together, far from it. We were good, but definitely not normal family, broken home. But that was normal for me. So I was used to it.

Maybe if it happened later in life, it probably would have had more of a profound effect on me. But being that it was, and I was such a young age, but not even realizing, that was just normal. I was just so used to it that didn't really have a really too much of a negative effect on me. My parents being separated. But yeah, definitely, we're just lower middle class family. I can just struggle. My dad was struggling to start in his own business. Poor, but still providing, you know, my mom's same thing.

So, definitely, definitely not the typical what you think of Southern California. That's for sure. At what point did you start to realize you wanted to become a Navy SEAL or join the military? How old were you? About 16, 15 going on 16. I knew I wanted to be in the military because in the beginning, when I started weighing all these options, I knew I wanted to be in the military because in the beginning When I started weighing all these options I knew I wanted to be military and then I was really sat down like what I want to do

I want to do something above the norm like I didn't want to just join and be a grunt or just the regular sailor I was more focused on navy and I just wanted to join it just be on the ship and just do whatever job. I wanted to do something great I did at the time think about I just wanted to be on the ship and just do whatever job. I wanted to do something great. I did at the time think about Naval Academy. I was talking this time, I was discussing my father. What I should do, at first he wanted me to do college. Then he's like, maybe you think about Naval Academy. I thought about Fider Pilot.

That thought came in and on my head pretty quickly. I think it was more of this like the stigma was like, oh, that sounds great, that sounds fun. You know, it sounds like a cool job, but the whole naval academy that just wasn't for me. And honestly, now being an officer was just my personality, so I'm glad I didn't do that. But...

Fucking cake eaters. Yeah, that would not, that's not me. Then I, you know, going on with seals, my father was a big influencer, major influencer for the seals, you know. He's the one, and I, you've heard this another podcast, say he, he's the one that brought the information home for me, because at the time, there was minimal. Minimal information online or whatsoever. You know, he brought a home of pamphlet,

like those little trifold pamphlets that had seals, little blips of information not much, but just like this is Navy's seals. And I was like, holy shit, you know, like that was it. Especially him giving it to me. That was more maybe a subconscious thing for me. Like at the time I look back and like maybe that was, you know, seeing him give me this, like, hey, you need me to do something great.

Yeah. Like that set the tone. That's pretty surprising. You don't hear that very often about their parents push their kid into special operations. I think that's cool, but you just, you don't hear that ever. Yeah, I'm very, uh, it's very surprising. What, did you know, I mean, when he gave you the pamphlet, what that was, or what that would entail?

I knew what they were, but I didn't know what it entailed. I mean, I've heard of them, but just vaguely, I didn't know. All that, like, just a glimpse into that kind of pamphlet thing of what they're about, because at the time before that, I didn't research them. I mean, I've heard of it on like a little bit, but that, once I got that in my hands, then I dove deep, you know, I deep-dived into it, you know, I just became obsessed because even just looking at that, getting it from him, just in reading it, I knew that was going to be a good fit.

That was more my style, who I was, my personality, where I would fit and do good and be successful. After that, that's what I'm going to do. Especially with the water aspect too, because that's, that's why it drove me kind of navy, the maritime aspect, and that was like perfect. It's like seals me perfect fit for me. Do you like the water growing up? I agree, yeah, I did. Do you like it now?

I have a different relationship with it now. I think a lot of guys have a different relationship with that after a while. Takes me about 10 minutes to get in the water. You just look at it like, oh fuck, I hope it's not cold. Slow crawl into it. You signed up at 17 years old. I mean, you can't even legally do that by yourself.

What was that like and why didn't you just wait till you're 18? Yeah, I mean, for me, I knew in my core that I wanted to do this so bad. I was like, I need to sign it, make this happen. Because when I did that, that even stoked the fire even more. Because now I had that goal. I already made that commitment.

And there was no turning back in my mind. Yeah. But I was so set in that time, because I enlisted this summer going into my senior year. Because I wanted to graduate and go. So you enlisted before your fucking senior year high school? Yeah, so I was already in the Navy, the debt program throughout my senior year. So I knew for a fact I was going, I had a new when I was leaving for boot camp, like halfway through senior year. Holy shit. I left literally a month later after I graduated high school

and left later. Wow. So looking back now after all you've been through, did you do you think you had any idea how big of a fucking decision that was that you made at 17 years old to go and then this is post 9-11. What year is this? It's 0-6. 0-6. Say I post 9-11? No. I definitely, I knew I was making a major commitment because I knew SEAL's special forces like this is big time and this is but being at a young age like just knowing that it's a minimal knowledge I knew about it I didn't know the magnitude. I mean that was way bigger. I didn't know the magnitude. I mean, that was way bigger. I didn't really come to life until I actually got there.

Wow. But I definitely knew I was making a life-changing decision. A difficult one. Helped a challenge we wanted to, but the magnitude didn't really hit me until I actually got to Buds, and that's when reality struck. But I knew what I wanted to do. That's why I joined so early because I wanted to leave right away. I don't want buffer time because I knew myself was like if I dragged this out,

then I'm going to create excuses or something. Yeah. Because my lock type, my training like over a year out when I enlisted, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,

I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like I finished school past, I wasn't exceptional. Because I was so all I cared about was seals. A's B's, C's, or below on your grades. No A's, I got like a couple B's, C's, and D, and Matt.

I wasn't a math student, I get like a D math. Not a math guy. And now I actually, I'm feeling not decent math now, but at at the time, I think I just didn't put effort into it. I don't know why, but the interest wasn't there. I was so focused on something else. Yeah. So how long after graduation did you go to boot camp? Graduated June of 2006,

what the buds are, excuse me, boot camp in July. You want to boot camp? me, boot camp in July. You want the boot camp? What the boot camp in July, graduate of high school in June, so a month later I left for boot camp in July of 06. And then boot camp is boot camp and then I went to course school out there boot camp. No shit, I joined July of 01. That's weird. Yeah, July 18th was shit. I joined July of 01. That's weird.

Yeah, July 18th was a day out. Wow. When you joined, so you joined, you had the seal contract or whatever they were calling it at that time. And at that time, did they have, did they make you go through an A-school to fill a job of the Navy if you quit or did you go straight to Buds? Yeah, they did.

I had to pick a rate. I had to pass the C Hill PST before I got to try out for Buds, probably even boot camp, and then I had to pick a rate. I had to pick in course school because at the time there was only an approved list. It wasn't any job in the Navy. They gave me a list like a five jobs

like ordinance, radar, course school. When I looked at it, I was like, maybe I'll just pick something that's practical. It's gonna be useful in my life, medicine. So you did that? Yeah, I had no idea, like I would be interested in it. I just sounded like, okay, medicine,

that sounds more useful than an AO or something that loads just ordinance on ships. Yeah. So I picked that and that kind of paved the way. How old were you when you got the buds? 19. 19, yeah, turn 19, yeah. So you did all this preparation from age 16. You made that decision.

17 years old. 17 years old. Long-tight, yeah. You get the buds. Did you think you were prepared when you showed up? I did. Were you prepared when you showed up? I thought I was.

I mean, everything up until that point, I really thought I was, did everything I can at all the tools. Thought I knew everything I needed to know about training and physically mentally ready, but once I actually started Buds, I knew there was things that I wasn't ready for. I mean, it was going to be a surprise. Yeah. Things you just can't train for.

What was that like for you? I mean, you'd seen, I'm assuming you watched every damn piece of content you could get your hands on, Discovery Channel, History Channel, Books, whatever you could get your hands on. And so you thought you knew the whole process, you saw it all on, you know, or you thought you saw it all and then you're there and You see the bell and you see the grinder and you see the instructors and you see the classes They're already Classed up going through hell week second phase third phase

Well, what was that like when you showed up and you saw all that shit for real for the first time? Definitely nerve-wracking. It was a surreal experience. So I remember checking in, I checked him in like, handful of other guys. We walked in the quarter deck, checked in, and then they marched through the grinder, and there was a class going on the grinder getting beat or doing a PT. That was definitely a surreal experience for me. Nervous as hell, scared. Also very excited too. I had all kinds of emotions in me.

I don't know how to act. Just stoic face, but internally I was, because I was just like this frail, skinny, 19-year-old at a boot camp lost so much weight. So I was just like, I looked probably, so I looked so damn young. Yeah. But, like I said, prior to that point, I thought I knew I was gonna get myself in new until I saw

it. I was like, holy shit. You know, here it is. Yeah, you see, you see guys that are mid-20s, early 30s. Yeah, because I saw first phase guys, see like second, third phase guys running around. These like brown brown shirts these dudes got long hair. It looked like you know, more mature, older like fuck. You know, it was taken back. Yeah, shit. Some of them have already been to combat and back from other branches and decided they want to try out for a seal.

Yep. And you're a 19 year old pumped kid from punnington Beach, California. I mean, did you, did that intimidate you seeing guys like that quit? It didn't intimidate me. I didn't really notice it at first. I mean, I didn't really pay attention to people who quit. I was just, especially in the beginning,

there was just so many of us that you wake up and there's the loss like 10 guys. How many did you start with? We started around 140, at least I might doubt, and I'm graduating buds with 31, 32. Shit, so that's, I say it's like an 85% nutrition rate. Yeah. That's, I mean, well above that.

So, that's the last class. That's, I mean, well above that. So that's the last class. Last hardest class? Yeah, I hear that all the time too. When you showed up, whether it's selection or buds, a lot of a lot of guys showing up to those kind of training curriculums, they have one evolution, one famous evolution in mind that they're scared shitless of. Like a lot of guys go to Buds, it's the, you know, the 50 meter underwater swim or selection as the land nav. Did you have anything that you were really worried about? Me was the both on heads. I saw it and know how I went to that point.

I knew I had to do a four mile run. I knew I had to do the swim. I wasn't really sweating that. I heard about the 50 meter. I wasn't really sweating that. But seeing, watching the videos and stuff like that, I see in the log PT and the guy sprinting with his boat on their head.

And I'm being right because that's, in my opinion, still the worst evolution in buds. I mean, it's definitely mentally and physically the most taxing. I'm running with that thing on your head, especially when people around you aren't holding their weight in the beginning. When you're all collectively holding your weight, then it's manageable, but when people start slipping It's brutal For me that was one of the most challenged in the beginning probably one of the most challenging things Was it was that is bad as you thought it was gonna be the boats on heads was worse?

Was it worse? I didn't even know I just saw it. I didn't know it was going to be. Those are things you can't prepare for like boats on heads. Rock, I mean log PT. You know, those watching guys on the video, it just doesn't really do it justice. Yeah, it's a little bit different watching somebody with a rubber boat on their head. And you're like, you know, how bad can it be? And then your head's under that boat with a bunch of sand in between your scalp and that boat weighs, I don't know, a couple hundred pounds full of sand and water. And then, you know, it takes your scalp with it.

And it crushes your neck. Yeah. Yeah, that's an eye opener for sure. Is it thought of quitting ever crush your mind going through? Never once. No, and I can honestly say that. I never thought about it one time. No shit. Definitely struggled through buds on certain physical

evolutions and challenged. Definitely a lot. But the thought of giving up. No. What did you struggle with? Running. Running? Yeah. Running? Yeah.

Running was my kryptonite. As the progress beginning was OK, and then it got progressively a little worse and worse, and then it kind of set me back. Did it? Did you get rolled back or? Second phase, I got rolled back for runs. Oh, shit.

How was that? Did that just crush your mind, so? Yeah, I was embarrassed for sure. Especially over runs. I just felt like what the fuck, Travis, like over fucking runs, this is what we do. I'm maybe able to take in a better if I like failed pool competency or something like that or a dive.

Because that's a difficult task, but a four mile time run that I've been doing for the past eight weeks or longer. I thought I would, I never would have saw myself failing runs because I failed one before a pool comp, past pool comp failed another after pull-com, which is a major milestone in the second phase. And then, I'm getting rolled back into another class. But post pull-com, so I don't have to do that all over again. For use of a million types, pull-com is a major hurdle in buds, which is still training

and basically long story short. It's scuba diving, you're with open circuit tanks and you have to go under and basically what happens is you get the shit beat out of you and you can't breathe and you have to go through all these procedures before you can resurface and get air. Did you have to do that over again? No, thank God. No, that's, Thank God. That's...

Thank God. That was a tough evolution, too. Yeah. That was probably one of the toughest I did in Buds, if not the toughest. But I luckily got to be able to roll back post that. So I clasped up with another class and then finished buds with that class. No more hangups. No more hangups.

Actually came back stronger and healthier. And I wasn't even rolled back for that long month, month and a half. OK. So not very long. But I came back stronger and healthier. So I just focused on I trained, I rehabbed my body. Because I still felt a little broken down to after Hell Week first phase.

But so maybe that was a blessing to the skies, I don't know. But I was still ashamed of myself. Like I didn't want to fail and then see my first, my class pass me up, which is a shitty feeling too. So you graduate buds, you go to Sgt, and then just doing the research, I already know you became a medic. You went to 18 Delta cores, correct?

Yeah. And Ford Bragg. That's a hard thing to do because that's a long course. And so the guys that you're in Budsworth are already at the team. Some of them are already going off to war and you're still in the schoolhouse. How was that? That was definitely being a corpsman already. Right when I got my bird, they just immediately pointed at me like,

hey, you're going to 18 Delta. Or Sockum, which is the special operations combat medic, the short course of the 18 Delta. It's six months. Still a very long course. And yeah, I was kind of like taking back. I was like, okay, you know, not really knowing what the hell that was, really. And still, I was like, okay, you know, not really knowing what the hell that was really.

And still, I was a little irritated because I was eager to go to the team and start working and get out of the student kind of mindset and actually show up to the team and start doing the job and training with the other team guys. But I took it on the chin, you know, so let's go. And I went, but we'll get into it, but it was the best course I've ever attended my tar career. Really? Yeah.

It's backtracking just a second. Get through buds. I mean, I know how influential your dad was in your life. And he originally gave you that pamphlet, which was the initial idea of you becoming a Navy SEAL. At the end of SKT, which is SEAL qualification training, when you got your trident, how good did that feel How good did that feel knowing that your dad, I mean he must have been so proud. Yeah that was incredible feeling. I mean not only for me, I know for him he was there. So was the rest of my family. He got to see. He did. Yeah. He did. He did., he was there. That's awesome. It was really cool to have him there. And the rest of my family as well, mom's sister. So that was unbelievable. Best feeling I ever had, best feeling in my life. Number one moment, my life up to this point.

So, and everything coming to fruition, after all those kind of steps leading up to this point, and now it's actually coming true was great. I knew it was great for him too because you know he could just see the result. That must have been really cool. So you're at 18 Delta School. You're a little bit pissed off because the boys are at the team already. You're in the schoolhouse, an army schoolhouse nonetheless, which is always kind of a pain in the ass for to do the cross thing with the other branches. And I know how frustrating that most of them,

but looking back now that you know the medic is probably the most important job on the team, would you have changed anything? No. No, like I said, I became passionate about medicine. Like, that's where I fell in love with it there at the squad. And even after a course, I didn't know shit about it. I mean, they just teach you bare bones.

And then actually deep dive into this course. I developed a love for it and a passion for it and I enjoyed every minute of it. It definitely, it did not regret it because it paid dividends throughout my entire career. Everywhere you go, need a medic, every op you need a medic, and there I was, the guy that's the medic, because there's not many medics in the far-fee between the platoons, because no one wants to go, many medics in the far-fee between the platoons, because no one wants to go. Because it's too long, too hard. But being at Bragg, where the schoolhouse is located,

Army base massive, and it's joint commands, a bunch of different units, majority army, but there's a bunch. Navy guys definitely stood out, and we're under the microscope microscope for sure. And it really important to me to perform because I didn't want to be, I've heard horror stories at that point, like I didn't want to be the team guy showing up to the platoon saying he failed 18 Delta. Just straight up turd, that's the first impression.

I don't want to be that guy. They're expecting you to be a medic and show up here. And it's easy to do that. You're screwing over the platoon essentially. And you know you just look bad as a seal and as a man. So I definitely didn't want that. I wanted to crush it. How did you do in that course? I mean, that's a probably that's got to be one of the most academically challenging courses in the military Going through 18 Delta. I mean, it's I mean It's so much information condensed into what six seven months. Yeah

Yeah, it was the most challenging course academically And I'm surprising myself. I'm graduating that course as an honor man in my class. No shit. Which I kind of blew my own, my self away. Doing that is I never graduate an honor man, anything. For that. Yeah, but after graduating that class, finished an honor man. Because leading up to that point, like I said, I was passionate about it.

I loved doing it. I wanted to be a good medic, because it was important to me. It was damn near like being in college, even at college experience at that point, but it was like being in college. I was in the books 24, 7, 7 days a week, learning the shit in and out. Especially in the first three months,

first half the course. Second half is when you actually get to do a real stuff, the live tissue training, surgical skills, T-Triple C. So it was a gut check for sure for me, but again, and part of the motivation was too, I wanted to outdo the army. Yeah.

Because for that, it's always like some army guy getting on her man or outdoing the Navy guys, because there was only like six of us. So I took it upon myself, I was like, you know what? Michelle and what seals are all about. We're fucking, we need to dominate here. Cause we're such on the microscope all the time. That's always a pain in the ass doing any type of school with a different branch because

of that competitiveness or what's the word on looking for. You're under the microscope as other units and there's the pissing contest between the two. Yeah, pissing match. Pissing match with all the branches. You know, and they see you, especially, there's only a few of you. You know, we always hung out together and then we're in ranks every morning there. We're all segregated. There's only a little small unit of us.

And I mean, all this staff they're hated in the Navy guys. It never goes smoothly, let's for fucking sure. But you graduated oner-man, which is kind of funny, considering you're a sub-par student in high school. You're still, I mean, you're only a couple years older now, in 18 Delta School, correct. And you graduate oner-man. That's, I mean, that's fucking impressive.

That was 21 when it finished. That's a shit. Turn 21 while it was there at the end. So you graduate 18 Delta, you're a combat medic. You're showing up to Seal Team 4. You show up to Seal Team 4. I mean, that's a lot of schooling and preparation for a kid to go through. You're finally at Seal Team team for 21 years old. What was that like?

Yeah, that was a long time coming. I mean, towards the end of that, once I graduated, the school house even asked me, like, you got an older man? Just as you got an older man, we went off for you to stay longer. Like, hey, you want to stay for additional seven months and be here for over a year.

Ha ha ha ha. To do the long course, they call it the long course. And at the time, I was like, no, I was like, I want to go to the team. So that's how hungry I was at that point. I was ready. Yeah. Ready to finally be there and do the job. Finally, let's prepare. I knew medicine to be a good medic and I was ready to actually

do the, to be a seal. Because when you're in the sockum, the med school, you're just all you are is inundated with medicine. You're not learning anything seals, operators at all. It's just 100% medicine. Okay. Which it has to be that way to make you good medic. So you get removed a little bit. Yeah. So I was so eager to go to a team and just start operating. Like I wanted to be a seal. So I was ready. I was ready to get after it. What was it like walking in the platoon hut that first time? I mean I know you showed up to seal team four. I know you jumped in a platoon that was coming back from war and Here you are green

Probably overly motivated as most new guys are and these guys are coming home From was it Iraq? Yeah, I was going to one troop these dudes were in Iraq And they were just unlike the last month of being there about to be coming home and they were getting over there. Yeah. And majority of those guys have already been there two times, some three. So was that intimidating for you? Very intimidating, because at the time it was only me and the couple of the new guys were the only ones going into one troop, which

was the Scent Compatite troop. And the guys that were getting out going to war. So you knew as soon as you showed up, you were going to war. I was going to one troop by rack, which is responsible for the AO sent comm. So I knew inevitably I was gonna go to our rack. That was kind of the back of our mind.

They didn't say for sure at that time when I first checked in, but I knew I was going to one troop. It's happening. It's happening. That's where I'll be going in the future. And definitely nerve-racking. I was a super intimidated even going to Silteam 4 and then let alone like go into the platoon space which is like sacred territory for the old guys. So definitely nervous especially when they got there when they start trickling in. And then, because when I first showed up,

it was like, we got our gear, we just got a locker, a quarter deck watch, new guy duties, you know, just new guys stuff all the time. So, not really much of anything until they actually showed up. And then they start showing up, and then we actually get to see them. You know, these dudes are, you know, the war veterans and these guys have been there done that. And I'm just, we're just over here just new and green. Yeah. No one's shit.

You know, just keep my mouth shut. I imagine they probably weren't the most welcoming bunch of guys. Definitely not at first. No, they didn't all show up at once. They kind of just all half came in, and they all tripled in. They all went on leave pretty much almost immediately when they got back, but yeah, once they saw as it was just like blood in the water.

So did you get to do a full train up before you went out the door or? Yeah, I did. Full work up. A full work up. That's a work up to about a work up is a year and a half about. A year and a half, yeah. So you did a year and a half train up on top of all the training you just did to get out the door. How long do you think it took to gain the respect of your peers, your new teammates, that you're getting ready

to go to war with, who they've already been to war. I mean, that's... It took a while. You got a man the fuck up and prove yourself to these guys to blend, you know, to get accepted. It was like, show them buds, you know, now showing them to the team as a new guy. Everyone's done what you've done and more. Now it's like, prove yourself all over again. So that whole stress was, again, happening.

And it was just every single day just putting out, putting out, putting out, putting out, making sure I'm right place, right time, right kit. You know, I'm always performing, trying to outdo even the new guys, trying to stand out, just prove myself I'm worthy. And I don't think it was until Damner deployment that we got some, we're pretty much got respect, like, okay, okay, full work up. I like how you just said that. You showed up and at the same time you're feeling on top of the world because you just

got your try-dint, you're a seal medic, you're checked into seal team 4. The fact that you just said everybody's already done when I've done plus more. I mean that just, just what you've done already by age 21 is fucking impressive and to have that attitude going in. I mean that's kudos to you because it is that's very real. Yeah. You show up, you think you're the shit and then every single person at that team has already done every fucking thing you've done. Exactly. 10 fold. Exactly. And I first, when I first showed up there,

all of the new guys were on top of the world. I didn't really hit home until we saw these season fucking warfighters coming in the doors. Like, OK, maybe we need to step the fuck back. Humble ourselves a little bit. And it did, we sound like we're really arrogant, but we just got to see it. And we're like, sound like we're really arrogant, but we just got to see it and we're like, okay, we know our place. We need to prove ourselves now.

We're glad you were, you knew you were going to combat. Yeah. Right off the bat. Yeah, I was glad. Because that's what we, that's what we trained to do. I mean, I think I'm lucky and I'm grateful that I have that, be able to have that opportunity even as, if my first pump, they'll go to war. I mean, not many seals, even some of the, the older seals that were in my platoon could even say that. Yeah. So, that was even rare at that time.

Yeah. Most guys, my LPO at the time has never even been in combat. Oh, sure. His old career, you know, so, guys LPO at the time has never even been in combat. Oh, sure. It's all career, you know. So, guys going to combat was far from between, you know, it was kind of luck of the draw. So I was very grateful and lucky to be a part of that pattern. I mean, that was a very interesting time in the teams.

I feel like, um, post 9-11, up to about that point, because there really wasn't a whole hell of a lot going on between Vietnam and 9-11. A couple things here and there. And it created a lot of animosity in the community with the between the older guys and the newer guys who were coming in and going straight to fucking combat. And other guys, I mean some guys have retired out of there, you know, and never got a chance to do that. But you went right there.

Do you feel like you were ready? I feel like after workup, everything up to the point, I was definitely my mind was right. I wanted to go, I felt confident, felt comfortable with being a part of the puttune, I felt solid. At first, I thought I was going Iraq and was all geared up for that.

And then I ended up switching troops. Okay. I needed a medic and then I'm going to Afghanistan. You switched troops or platoon, they needed a medic, which means you're the fucking primary medic as a new guy going to Afghanistan. Correct?

Yeah. That's a shit ton of responsibility. How do you think you handled that? I felt I had it pretty good. I mean, I was mentored up by solid individuals in my original platoon, solid medics, senior medics, and older guys, because there's only like five of us, new guys. Majority of the platoon is all senior guys. I have multiple combat, or if not just one.

So seasoned, and they brought us up right and definitely gave me the confidence to succeed and do my job well and that's how I felt. I was more, I was actually a little bummed and torn that I had to leave my platoon, but then at the same time I was like really excited to go to Afghanistan because that was a spot. What point in the workup did you switch patterns? At the very end, it was done with workup. So you just spent a year and a half proving yourself to a new team

only to get removed, put in another new team where you have to prove yourself as a new guy again and you're the fucking primary medic. I mean... Yeah, me and two other guys. Those are some big shoes to fill. It was intimidating because I didn't didn't know anybody besides there's two other guys that came with me the snipers. When was the sniper so they kind of were buffer a little conduit. They were a little more protected. Yeah, I knew some of the new guys they had. I was their new guy. I knew some of the new guys they had,

but yeah, same thing. I had to prove myself, because they didn't know who I was. They had some, my other guy's kind of outing for me, but same token, and I still got to prove myself. How do you think your dad felt when he found out? I mean, he gave you the pamphlet to become a seal. You become a seal. Now you're getting ready to go out the door

and do the shit for real. Yeah, I don't. That's honestly hard to say because I never asked him how I really truly felt, but I'm sure he was nervous because I did tell him up front. I thought about just like lying and just bullshitting my parents and telling where I was just going to make up. Just say I was going to Europe or something just to be fine, I'll be good and I'll be

able to call you whenever. I crossed my mind but at the end of the day I was like now I'm just going to tell him where I'm actually going because this is what I signed up to do. I thought it was right. I mean, what do you expect through Navy SEALs is what we do. Yeah. We go to war and handle it.

But I'm sure he was nervous. And he was excited because I actually doing what I wanted to do, what I love to do. But I'm also certain that he was probably scared, shitless. I know my mom was. Yeah. Did you try to shelter him I know my mom was. Yeah. Did you try to shelter him from what was actually happening?

Yeah. I never, I kept it vague. Yeah. I didn't go to nitty gritty and I kept it very vague. I said I was going Afghanistan, that was it. I didn't say like where. You know, obviously didn't tell him really what I was doing. Even when I was there and I reach, I call them, email them,

or even I try to call once in a while on a Saap phone we got to call I Just didn't even talk about what the hell I was doing is more of this, you know How's it going? I'm good you hear my voice like I'm doing well type of conversation. Yeah, it's funny. He lose almost all emotional communication

Yeah It's funny, he lose almost all emotional communication. Yeah. Somewhere along that pipeline, it seems like almost all guys do. There's no more sense of emotion. Yeah, you put up a shield, not really realizing it. It just happens innately because it's work. You got it. It's all business. You can't bring motion into it and

you can't. And I didn't want to do that to my family, like they're going to be worried sick, like putting undue stress on themselves because I'm over there, you know, I didn't want that to happen. So I'm sure it still did anyway, but I didn't want to fuel that far. You're getting ready to leave for combat as a brand new medic to Afghanistan with your new platoon as a new guy. Going back to your dad who you're extremely close with. Do you think his mindset changed it all?

Did he get worried that you were, now that it became very real? Like, hey, dad, I'm going to Afghanistan for six to nine months. I would say so, yeah. I mean, at the time, they didn't really express their worries to me that much because they wanted me to remain focused. But I knew, because after the fact I spoke to them, but I knew the stress was high. They're definitely more worried.

I saved more fear of the unknown for them at least. Because I was the first one in the immediate family going in the military and they had no experience of anyone in their family going in the military. So this is all new to everybody. So out in your family, you're the first one that's going in the military and you're going to war at the highest level? Exactly. So I want to be doing some things. I want to take a call.

And I have your dad on the line, Jim. Hey, Jim, how's it going? This is John Ryan. Hey, John. I've got your son sitting here. And we're talking about right before he leaves on his first combat deployment at Seal Team 4 as a new guy. And I was wondering if you have any questions you'd like to ask him. Hey, Travis. Hey, Dad. I do actually. I remember the day he called me to kind of say goodbye to me when he came right ahead up, but that's one that's appointment. I wonder if it. I mean, I was scared. I was talking to Sean about this. I was definitely nervous as hell. I think those nerves turned out to be

a lot of fun. I was just like, I'm just going to get my head up. I'm going to get my head up. I'm going to get my head up. I'm going to get my head up. I'm going to get my head up. I'm going to get my head up. I'm going to get my head scared. I was talking to Sean about this.

I was definitely nervous as hell. I think those nerves turned into more with the excitement and the motivation, but definitely scared as shit because I knew exactly, I was doing it for real. I mean, I wasn't going to Europe or South America. I was actually going to war all that training and hard work coming to fruition finally. It was, I couldn't going to Europe or South America. I was actually going to war all that training and hard work,

coming to fruition finally. It was, I couldn't even figure out. I could, it's hard for me to even explain in the words to obviously you guys what I was going to be doing, but I kind of just in the back of my mind, hope that you understood, or at least somewhat understood, what I was actually going to do. No, I'm for sure, dude.

Yeah, the most of it for me when you check the body, but Jim, I got a question for you. So you're really supportive of Travis going into the into the SEAL teams and and doing that job. How did it feel for you when he checked into SEAL team for and you realized holy shit my son's going straight to straight to combat after we've already been at war for seven years. I was just so proud of him. At the same time, I was definitely nervous too. No one he was going out of the stand. Never knew, never knew. We didn't really know what would happen.

Actually, we didn't know what I'd actually talk to the gang. You'd be going out of the stands and you said we checked him when he could. I was never knew what that would be. So it was definitely a real emotional day for me. Even without that call. I was just so proud of him. At the same time, I was definitely nervous too.

You know, no one he was going out of the stand. I never knew, never knew. We be going on the chance, and he said, we should check him when he could. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no was that would you say that was probably one of the most stressful moments of your entire life? I guess there was nothing special six months especially the first two or three months. I heard from the 30th old woman, pretty much everything you think of is like your son being over there and having no idea what's up to. So as a parent it's tough, you know, tough. At the same time you can't be more proud of him. Yeah. You know, it's tough. At the same time, you can't be more proud of them. Yeah. That's a difficult time. Something most people know, you're talking about it.

It's crazy, because you can use notes, but like, you can think about it. It was a big deal. You got anything for? I'm going away. Yeah, I think for dad. No, I mean, I'm glad that you, I guess, after you're saying that, you have a good mindset about it,

because at the time I was giving them big information, because I didn't know either. I mean, I didn't know when the hell I was about to even call, or what type of connectivity I was going to have there, et cetera. Or I kind of had an idea. I knew what we were doing, but I didn't know how important or much we were going to be doing. So it was even hard and difficult to me explaining to my family what exactly what I was getting to. And I purposely didn't, I purposely kept it vague. I said, hey, this is where I'm going. I actually almost thought about lying and be like, I'm going somewhere else. Yeah. Like, I'm just going to go to Europe. I'm going to Europe for six months. I'll call you when I get there. Just keep it really vague, keep it comfortable.

But at the end of the day, I felt like I'd be doing a disservice. I'd be like, no, this is where I'm going. So this is what I do. We were always proud of him. He definitely worked with us, not to get there. You know, even high school, he was driven to BSDO. He got in the pub. He's a call named. I'm like, he got in the pub, he's a call

man, so I'm never going to quit, they're never going to break me. He's pretty bright there, so I knew the driven, driven young man, and you know, he's going to be more proud of him. Jim, I got one last question for you before we jump off the line here. What made you hand Travis the brochure on being a Navy SEAL? I just, you remember that? The way Travis always talks, he always talks, he just wanted to be something special, make a difference in the world.

I just thought it's driving him, and I felt like just the drive it would take to actually become a SEAL, you know, could test them to push them through all the minutes he could I just saw the drive in him and I felt like just the drive would take to actually become a seal, you know, could test them to push them through all of them and see if he could be pushed through. So I just knew that was up his alley just the way he would talk about what he wanted to do online. I'm just never seen a person who would do that at such a young age. I thought, well, I think this could be perfect for him to drive the he has.

This is exactly what I think my view is calling. Wow. So you knew he was going gonna make it right off the bat. I did, it was amazing, I mean, little leaves, I don't wanna go too much sort of, but even though high school, he's out, his buddies is out, part of the weekend, he began up early doing ocean swim, beach run, but I mean, he was doing bus training

for the high school. He wanted to be a scuba diver when you were 16, I said, around to do it. You wanted to do it. You were like training for a dog through high school. I just saw the drive and he had the type that, you know, this is his calling, I just saw it. Where do you think he got his drive from?

I just think, I mean, I guess maybe you have a guy. Maybe he saw how I always push and push and push and I make sure we made it live together because I have, I guess maybe I had a young dad, maybe he saw how I always push and push and push and I make sure we made it live together because I was 20 years old when he was born. So, you know, to see this all the drive, and need to be a bit farther to him, and I think that's kind of carried over to his life. That's incredible. Definitely.

And businessman, having to run his own business. Yeah. And so definitely. Well Jim, I really appreciate your time and for the call and we'll be home soon. I appreciate you checking in. How about you? All right, thanks.

All right, bye-bye. Bye-bye. How did that feel? That was a pleasant surprise and very unexpected. Was it, did you know all that stuff before? How we felt? No. Because I always say never really asked.

But I knew they probably did feel that way. Like I said, but I just, I mean, even to this day I haven't asked them. Yeah. But it's good. I mean, he I just, I mean, even to this day I haven't asked him. Yeah. I don't know. But it's good. I mean, he had the right mindset. Well, you guys are obviously very close and that's really cool to see. But, enough of the mushy stuff. Let's move on to combat.

So your boots on the ground, Afghanistan, what year? 2010. 2010. 2010. A lot of shit happened right around then like Been logged and got killed. Yeah. Where'd you land? Did you land in Bogrum? Lowness in Caff, can't know shit. You went straight to Candahar. Yeah Went to Candahar and then from there We loaded up and shipped out to a place called Fob Lane

with the time. Still Team 3 was there. It's a little tiny Fob and back in the day was owned by an SF unit and Team Guys took it over. It was in Southeast Afghanistan. A province called Zobble and the area called Argon Dob. So it was definitely a hot spot of the time in the area. But we ended up getting it arriving there and then Tiltiim 3 was there like I said and we ended up doing, you know, once we hit boots on the ground you could do is we're fired up, motivated to get checked in. We kind of pretty quickly I'd say within the first week, we started planning and for our first turnover up. So, we're fairly fast.

Just for reference, Southern Afghanistan down in Kandahar is one of the hottest zones on always has been throughout the what almost two decades have gone on our wartime and Afghanistan. And how long were you there before? How long, I mean, did you guys even have time to settle in because I? In Keth. Did a lot of research and I talked to some of your friends and I mean, you guys were getting it. So.

And once we arrived to our fob. Yeah. Yeah, like I said said it was pretty quick we got half I would say half a silty and three platoon kind of left as we arrived and then the the kind of leadership more senior guys stayed on board to do turnover with us but it was fairly quickly before we started turning and burning and how that nice a good battle rhythm and just starting going because our honestly the leadership that I had was eager and hungry.

What Black Track real quick before we get into the details, what were your living conditions like? How many people, a lot of people don't understand what a FAB is. A Fb is not like a big base. It's a small, fortified, a lot of times you're using sandbags as cover. Can you describe your living conditions, how many guys you are with, where are locals? We had our entire platoon, so we actually went there with, I would say, 18 seals. I think it was 18 or 19 seals, and we had another handful of enablers, plus seal team three there. So we had almost 60 guys, I would say, on this fob.

We only had one, we had no locals that slept on our fob with us. None. Or a partner for us. Okay. So they had their own. Own little fob. I was sleeping and we had like little bee huts, little wooden rooms.

So this fob, honestly, was pretty well. It was decently built up because it had been there for a while. Like I said, an army, SF unit, ODA unit, ran it, and established this thing. So it pretty well built up. It wasn't very big, but it was decently built up. So living conditions, honestly, my first point weren't bad. So I was, we're all pretty decently comfortable.

Okay. As far as sleeping is concerned, but we would get attacked on a nightly basis, so that comfort wasn't went out the window. Every night you're getting attacked. Pretty much. What are you getting attacked with? Small arms. Indirect. Okay. Yeah. Inder-n-far. Any close calls. A few. Someone get into the base, but not near where we slept. But it was mainly just kind of sporadic fire. They were definitely aiming at us and getting close,

but nothing, I wouldn't say effective, at least on our fob. Well, were you having to defend the base at all, or was it all pretty much in the way? No, we got, every time we've based offense, we had a good, we used our RG, we had some RG 31s with the 50 cows on it, and we also had a, which is the armored all-terrain vehicle.

Okay, so it's a big beefed up in all terrain and we had a 50 cow, they have 50 cow weapon system, a remote weapon system that called RWS is on top of those things. So we placed those in position. We also had a huge tower with the 50 on it that we'd use as well. And then we also had a mortar pit too. Okay. So we would send our own indirect fire. What point, so how long were there before you started leaving the wire and going out on your own ops and what was your mission there? So our mission was a strike force. We ended up just doing the straight village clearance

in direct action. But our very first op that we did our turnover up was one that was pretty impactful for everybody. That was there. We did a turnover up with still team three. Only few, very few guys in my platoon actually went, went on it because it was mostly Sylteme 3 doing a turnover. Just kind of see how they did business, kind of SOPs, and they left late that night and before you know, the sun even rose. I got woken up the middle of the night,

loaded the heat load, because the heat load crashed. Oh, shit. Killed everybody. So we lost four guys, three guys, the whole crew, everybody in the bird, went down. We lost a one guy survived. Andrew Dow.

He survived. Andrew Dow. He survived. Buckman. Miracle. But so the bird ended up crashing on the hillside, going down. It didn't get shot down or anything, but it was going because we did a lot of Overwatch positions. We call them SE positions. And then we had the main element down in the ground during the village.

And we had the Overwatch positions, which we during the village and we had the overwatch positions Which we call supporting element up in the mountains. So we did a lot of that at night so the heels would land at these peaks And sometimes they wouldn't even touch ground They would just hover over because they couldn't land on these mountain tops. There's so this train was rugged. Yeah, so this bird and I'm just clipping the side of the mountain and lost everybody except one. So that I go woken up into that, loaded the bird, went over to hover over it because there was nobody there. There was only, because the other bird was getting dropped off somewhere else on another peak.

So I got woken up, loaded the bird, grabbed only med kit. I mean, that was like something that, hey, hello, like fucking reality check, bird just went down. Let's expect everyone to be dead. Get your fucking med kit, get your litters now. Fucking grabbed all my shit, I had it all staged and god, I'm ready to fucking go,

but I had loads of quick lits I can, jumped in the bird, and then we took off. By the time we get there, we hovered over it. By the time we got there, the PJs were there. They started the recovery. So that was our very first op as of the tune. Jesus Christ. Lost dudes right off the bat.

That's um, that's fucking tough. Yeah, that was a definitely huge kind of wake up call for the boys. Yeah. That was tough too. That was because we, like I said, up to that point we haven't done anything. Yeah. We're still even gone on the knob. We're still fucking trying to get our feet wet, figure shit out. Next thing you know, we lose fucking five guys.

So it's real fucking real. Yeah, that's real. This is reality now. So it was definitely that put a damper on things. I wouldn't say it not for a long time, I should believe it or not. It was definitely that put a damper on things. I wouldn't say it not for a long time, I should believe it on a five. I would say for a few days. Yeah.

It was tough. But the turnaround, we had really good leadership that they understood that it was important to fucking keep the guys moving. Yeah. Keep the guys moving. Yeah. Keep the mind focused. A lot of times when you lose guys in a combat zone and you know them, it'll create a type of ritual, or maybe not a ritual, but something

that you'll do to prepare yourself before ever- Like a superstition? Yeah. Did you do the cover? Yeah, I would say like a ritual. Did I do anything? Yeah, did that specific incident? Because it happened so fast once you got in country.

Did that create any kind of routine before you would go on a mission, like some kind of superstition? Or? I didn't develop. We all, as a platoon, we all took a knee and prayed before we went out. That was kind of a mutual agreement.

And I've never done anything like that at that point, but I did it with them just to fucking keep the mind right. Every time we stepped out the door, and I think it helped to stay focused. But after that event, the boys were everyone's locked tight because they knew that I mean, that doesn't get more real than that.

You know, most guys go to combat, they may not experience it, you know some a lot do but you're going in expecting not to experience it. You don't want your boys to fucking die. You don't want your lose teammates. Yeah that's the worst possible scenario but you still you you hope for the best you don't want that should happen in your own teammates. But I think after that event everybody just fucking locked the fuck on. Everyone was already locked on, but that just... The whole other level.

So that over the top. Yeah. Now you're chomping at the bit. Yeah. Now that motions... A little angry. Yeah. You know, we're in back-eye country.

So now, like, the the motivations even more to fucking, just get out there and take it to him. Yeah, a lot of myself included used tragic events or a lot of friends to kind of build that anger and fuel your mindset before going on ops, which is, and that's why I said question. Yeah What was your guys opt-tempo like?

Few times a week I say three to four times a week would be out the door We all we did was fly away ops leaving the milling night. He lows going to villages Majority from we're 24 hours to 48 hours. We did longer than 172. So, we didn't do the only time we did local. We would just walk to our little local village or something like that, but 95% of them were all flyaways, like I said, three, four times a week. Village clearance.

Were you guys looking for something specific where you're stirring up the hornets nest? What was the... We would be... Can talk about it. A little bit of both targeting a lot of it presence and establishing more of a green zone for us and just showing face.

We would clear the village, but at the end of the day, the mission was, hey, clear the village, but at the end of the day the mission was, hey clear the village, let's get the elders together. Let's establish rapport and build relationships, but we're all at the same time we're filled around out the bad guys. That's kind of the under arching, but the over arching mission was say we need to build, make sure to increase our green zone, build relations, and show more presence. That was our main focus, and I spent the majority of that deployment, if not all that deployment on top of mountains.

Yeah. We guys getting after it, we're engaging every time. Every time you left the wire was a hit or miss. I wouldn't say it not every time. No, okay. Definitely hit or miss. It would say about 50% of the time we were getting ticks. Okay. We're getting contact with the enemy. And you're doing flyaways, so you're getting in a tick on foot.

On foot. You guys aren't bringing any vehicles, maybe some dirt. No, all of a sudden. All of a sudden. You get small arms and indirect. And how many guys are going on, absolutely roughly? The entire platoon, so we're almost 30 guys with an ablers. Okay.

And partner force. So we roll out the door with partner Force as well and Platoon, you know, that's 18 guys and 19 guys plus our NABlers and other five. So we're up there. We had a decent force. We ended up having two supporting Elmus with at least four guys and then the main Elmus was the big Elmus and the ground which was doing the clearance. We had two overwatch positions. So, and where were you? I would end up always being on the over watch position so. And what were you? I would end up always being on the overwatch. Okay.

A few times I'd go down there on the main element but more or less than that I would just volunteer to go on the overwatch position. Yeah. They would put me on there. My leadership would put me up there too. So I got very familiar with the mountains of Afghanistan. Yeah, were you watching your guys get into engagements? Yeah, but actually more often than that, we would get the ticks. Okay. They would see us up there. Because these

are where these dudes are hanging out. Yeah. They're not hanging out on the ground. We're talking night. We're talking day. We go in at night, insert at night, and then execute during the day, just at sunrise. Okay, so the helos, when you guys would take off for a nap, they weren't you weren't landing right in the village, you would land. We would offset from the village, the main element, not far, but you could click. Okay. And then they were patrolling, and then right at first light, they would break that last line of cover and start conducting clearance.

And then we would, they would insert us at some peak. We would do some false inserts, and then insert us at a certain peak, and then we would control up to the top of the mountain where we needed to go. But, believing in them not, it'd been in a lot of times where we ended up being very close to where the enemy where we needed to go. But, believing in a lot of times where we ended up being very close to where the enemy's hanging out. These guys are on the ground.

They don't, they didn't, from the I first deployment, my experience then, they had the balls to go face-to-face on the ground with, with seals, with us at least. They would occasionally, but it would be more sporadic and there would be at a distance. Wouldn't be super effective. I would be, I got more effective fire when I was up in the supporting element

than I ever did when I was on the ground. No shit. That's the interesting. Did you utilize your, your training as an 18 delta on that deployment? I did only medical treatment. I didn't after that deployment we didn't get any serious injuries. Yeah, I did a low minimal stuff for partner forest. We ended up doing med caps every weekend for the villagers.

I would do a lot of treatment for that. Okay. But as far as combat here, no, because we didn't have any serious injuries post the healer crash. Yeah. So let's wrap that deployment up. You come home as a new guy, or I guess you're not a new guy anymore, but I mean shit, that's pretty fucking real. Right off the bat to cut your teeth into.

What was it like for you coming back, going back to the team and seeing the next batch of new guys entering to your platoon. And you're going straight back to combat again for the next one. Yeah, I was going right back into one troop again, staying there, and I knew, damn you're right away, we knew we were going to go to Afghanistan because Iraq kind of stopped, and now they had, they needed to, actually at the time all the troops were going to Afghanistan this next going around. It was that much of a demand, so all the troops were going to Afghanistan. This next go around. It was that much of a demand.

So all of them were going. So everyone. Yeah. Even the three troops, South Compatune, some of the guys were even getting filtered out and going too. So that's how much the demand was. So I knew it was going, coming back home from deployment, you know, it was, I didn't know, I just described it,

but it was, if I was know, I was just grabbing it, but it was, I was relieved, I was kind of ready to come home at that point. Nervous too, because I've been gone kind of for so long, it seemed like. Being my first appointment, so I really didn't know how to act or behave once I got back. I mean, I wasn't married or had kids or anything, so I came back and they're just me. So I just pretty much just continued doing work again. Yeah.

I mean, I did go home like a month later, took some leave, took like two weeks, came back here at California, I don't know, with a family. Was it hard, but I mean, interact a little bit, because I felt like they wanted to ask stuff. They didn't know how to ask it, and they didn't ask it, and they really didn't know how to like, because I noticed this now more than in the past

when I was a new guy, like, as soon as you're around people that are very unfamiliar with military and general let alone seals and like the point, they just, they think the things that you've done may have messed you up or something or may have, they put this stigma on you. Maybe no fault to their own, because that's just like kind of the mentality.

But I felt that way like, you all. You know, everything good, you know, how is deployment, you know, you doing good, et cetera. But over time it was fine. Like I kind of just got back on the grind of being back on the team again. And it was actually a good feeling once I kind of put tuned up again. And that was an older guy if you

want to say that and then now I get to work with my new mentor new guys and you know watch them prove themselves to me and the rest of the fucking guys that you know been there and done that as well. Did you find out you're going back to Afghanistan how fast after you got back from your first pump in Afghanistan. I would say we found out officially probably halfway through, but at the beginning, we always knew that we were going to go back. So maybe a good, maybe a good six months for you were kind of like iffy and then six months

later. Six months later. Six months later. Six months later. No shit going up, Afghanistan. Now Six players, I hate it. You're no shit going to Afghanistan. Now it's where are we going in Afghanistan? Oh, okay. So you did know that you knew right away. Yeah, so it's like, okay, we knew it.

Because like I said, everyone was gonna go there, but it was more of the question of where exactly in Afghanistan we're going. Yeah. Because the other puts troops and it's going like calf, major bases. Yeah. So this was kind of, again, ends up in that competition. because the other puts troops and I'm going like calf, major bases. So this was kind of, again, ends up in that competition.

We need to be the best performing fuck of a tune to get the best mission, because at the time, VSO was coming about. Village stability ups, what we called it. And that was the mindset of, we needed to win the hearts of minds, kind of win over the people. And that was the mission to be on, because was, we were getting, you wanted to be

sent in the most remote areas. Yeah. More chance to get into that. You wanted to be on. You wanted that. Yeah. More chance to get into fire fights, get after it, less stress of the flagpole, you know, we're on our own.

You know, we're doing, we could do our own thing and be effective, you know, we don't have our hands tied if we're like the units at the calf. We're all like, that's like a major hub, which the other two troops have been doing. So, we ended up getting the VSO mission at the end of the day and the workup made a solid headshed, a lot of experience, dev group guys and they really groomed the troop well and we had strong chiefs and you know all that leadership was really tight. So your immediate reaction when you found out you're going right back to Afghanistan in a year and a half depending on how long your work up is. Were you... Did you want to go back? Were you excited to go back? Did that become home for you? I was excited to go back. You were? Yeah. I was hungry to go back again. I was...

especially after my first experience. I felt I was way more go back again. I was, especially after my first experience, I felt I was way more experienced and more prepared, and I knew what I was getting myself into. So I was ready to go back. And at that time, they're like, hey, guess what? You're also going to be staying eight months. Maybe you could speed up to 10 months. 10 months. Yeah, so it was like eight to 10.

Because before that, still team 10 went out there, they ended up staying there for 10 months. Yeah. Right before us. So that was a change as well, because with this new new VSO mission, they required us to be on the ground longer. Okay. To build relationships. That was kind of the mindset, the strategy behind it. So we knew we're going to be ground longer. Okay. To build relationships, that was kind of the mindset, the strategy behind it. So we knew we were going to be there longer.

Okay. So it was going to be the rougher. And being that VSO mission, we knew we were going to be this deployment was going to be rough. It was, too, it was unlike, nothing like my first one. The second one was worse. Second one was, yeah. Were you and Jeff together on... This one, was together?

Okay, did you guys know each other before them? Yeah, we did a little bit. We were in different troops. Where do you fly into for your second deployment? Let's skip the work up and let's just go straight back over there. What, where did you fly into this time? Same place, CAF. Right back to an outer base.

Right back to CAF. And then we had to fly to... I ended up going to the same area South East Afghanistan again Argonneau River Valley where my first point was but I was just a little further north of where my first fog was because that fog had been going away so we established Seal Team 2 was here they established this via SoSight and we got there was nothing. It was like three two tents, a last-contents, a couple of haskos. I mean, this thing wasn't even a base. It wasn't even fully so I could throw a football to one end. It was less than

a hundred yards. No shit. I was small. So this base is less than a football field. Yeah. And smaller than a football field. Small than a football field. With two tents. Yeah, when we got there was two tents. And we didn't have any. No running water, no shitters. They were right next to a village.

And then their partner forced owned a compound that they took over right next to the team guys' little site. These guys were rough. their partner force owned a compound that they took over right next to the team guys little site. These guys were rough. I mean, we got the really holy shit. You know, like these guys were fucking rough in it. Yeah. This was like real deal.

So that was unexpected. We got, we had a little kind of, they told us a little bit, but we had had no idea it was like that magnitude, that level. But yeah, these guys were rough and it didn't have anything because you couldn every single time. So, you know, upper love is like, no, we can't bring any helos in there. So it was like very rare. That would be even for us even getting there was a pain. Yeah. Even to change out crews. There's a pain in the ass. Just, can you walk us through a little bit more about how many people are on this fob?

Was it just your troop? It was just a platoon. Just a platoon. Okay. So there's like 16 guys. Yeah. With an A-Wiz, but I push in 20, a little over like 21-22 with an A-Wiz. And then SEAL Team 2 is there, a platoon.

They had minimal guys, we showed up because they already shipped some guys off. So I think they had like 12 guys. So it was tight, we were sleeping on top of each other. We ended up making another tent, so we could all pack in, we're sleeping on cots, literally right next to each other, just racked up jam as many as we can in there.

Until we got more gear, more equipment because we didn't even have any more tensors in order to sleep. We had to sleep on top of each other until still team 2 finally get out of there but we did a couple turnover robs which ended up going pretty smooth. So that went well and then they ended up leaving. And then from there the whole time was like literally build up shop. We needed a stout with some sort of living, but we let it the whole time it was there. We had no running water. We always slept on cots. We didn't have a

kitchen. It was in like a dirt hut. They would drop us food via air drop. Because no kilos would come in hardly ever. Relive them with locals. Yeah, we lived. We had locals that part and force living on our fob. How many? There was about six of them. What was that relationship like? Did you guys have any confidence in them?

Some of the lot of units have different. I had confidence. So I ran actually these guys. The role I was in, I ended up being like their handler paying them make sure they're gear Those guys actually were good. They were our counter IED kind of partner force. They were solid So we didn't really mind Their trustworthy we felt comfortable with them walking around on our fob and they had weapons The partner force are real partner partner force, the ANASF.

Guys are with us that lived in the compound probably like 50 yards away. We're decent at first and like towards the middle of the point we had some hiccups ready to get rid of them because we lost confidence. Because we ended up doing something that didn't like and then we had to call in counter-intelligence guys to interview them and there was some red flags with attitudes towards us, maybe possible, signs of attack or aggression. This happens a lot, a lot of different units and a lot of different agencies. When you guys got rid of them, where did they go? Did you guys just cut them loose and send them back to their town because that can create

an entire new enemy? No. Toward you. The ANSF was kind of somewhat of established for us somewhat. So they just, we got them heat, they got out of there. So they didn't, we didn't say, hey, walk away from the fog and just go find your own path. They got in a bird and we shipped them out of there, got a hole in the unit. Okay.

So it was fairly easy. But up to that point till they left, it was like we didn't trust them. Like, hey, you can't come over here with, you came in approach our fog, our little VSO site with a gun. And do not, you can come over here, no weapons though. We searched them, just a lot of animosity was building up.

So you're dealing with that, and then you said it was hotter your second deployment So were you guys getting hit on the fob too? Oh, yeah all the time once we got there I mean it was damn near every night every night. I call it tick 30 Fucking every night right when sundown these dudes are just Smash us with small arms and they would it would be effective and Indirect it would land it It would be coming through our tents, small arms with peacam rounds and then indirect fire as well.

Landing in our fob and just right out of it. I can one, I can blew up our kitchen down here, killed the dude. He was in there lucky. He dove into our little, our little Med Center was attached to our kitchen so he't likely diving into that. Got some fragments back, but he came out on the scale,

but that would happen on a nightly basis. I mean, at first, dudes were not expecting that. I mean, tensions were high. We were like, at night going to bed, we're relaxed. Our shit's ready to go, but, you know, we didn't, we weren't expecting that. Um, it took some time to fucking get used to, and then before he knew it, dudes were in the racks with like full cammy, full kit, just ready to go,

because we knew it was coming. Yeah. Just every night would just be the same fucking thing. Shit, man. So what, I mean, what was your, what was your opt-tempel like this deployment compared to? More, we were going out of daily basis on this one. Daily basis, every day you're going out and are we doing foot patrols or? We're doing foot patrols to local villages, maybe further north, a little bit south, presence, and again, increasing that green zone, because we only go so far,

because we didn't do any type of flyaways. It was all because of you, so we needed to stay local. Did a lot of ones, the village near us, but every time it seemed like every time we went out, we were getting new to take. Wow. Every single time. So you're going out every day,

you're getting a gun fight outside of your fob. Then you come home or maybe maybe this had already happened but and then you get a deal with the base getting hit. So I mean this. Yeah, it honestly was like that. I would say all the way up until December, it kind of died down a little bit because I got cold. So we were kind of expecting that, but it's even still, like they still would fucking, every time we would, the base attacks would lighten up, but every time we went out the door, those would be the same.

Wow. They just knew what the fuck we were going. They could see us before we were coming. That was as hard for us because we didn't do any night ops. It was all bright in the middle of the day. They knew we were going there to meet key leaders, shake hands, establish rapport, and just hold up security. We weren't necessarily targeting individuals.

We did it a few times. We ended up, I ran Intel, so we ended up going on missions purely driven off the Intel that was found via myself, sources, and my other teammate, we were partners together in it. So we would gather on Intel and target that way. Wow. And then other missions we would get from higher as well. But we got created with it. That deployment, what you said, was roughly 10 months, 9 to 10 months? It was, yeah, almost, it was at 8.

How many engagements would you say you and or your team were part of in that eight months. Do you have any idea? I don't. I mean, as a lost count, who's that many? I mean, I don't know a hard number. Yeah. It was a lot. I would say, pushing 100.

Yeah, I mean. With all the ops, Fob attacks, and even just going out the door like Damn near right around the corner next village up or even our own village. I mean just a six-month deployment alone is 180 days and if you guys were taking If you guys were taking fire and getting into ticks almost every day and you did longer than six months Just to put that in perspective for it because most guys don't think about this. That's 180 fucking engagements. Yeah I think that's a lot of engagements. At the time I'd even look

at like that because you just you don't pay attention to it. Yeah. You know you just you're ready for the next one. Yeah I'm ready for the next one and then before you know it you know I think the leadership did keep track of it, but guys didn't really focus on it, but it was a lot. I mean, it felt like every damn night, at the beginning it was, they wanted to fucking try something. You've never thought about that until just now. So what's that sound like to you when I put that in perspective and I say, you took part

in over 180 fucking engagements in less than eight months. I disbelief. That's a lot of fucking combat. I've never really thought of it like that. Because at the time you're just doing the job, you're doing a job and you're not thinking of it as a tick. Like a check in the box, I go, I got one, two, three.

So how many ticks I got? Yeah. What range are you guys fighting at? Is it always different? Is it up close and personal? Or are they a couple of years away? Throughout that different way. Everything.

Everything in between. Do you guys have air support? We had some air support occasionally with little birds. And sometimes we had some F18s fast movers that would come in. But mainly just the helo support. I was like the only platform that would really be available even to come in to help us out. So, but not often, not every time.

Because you were really out there hanging out there. Yeah, it was just us. It was really just us. We had some army guys attached to us, little army unit that we utilized for fob security and some other support. So it was really just us doing our thing out there. It was a blessing in disguise, I think.

I mean, it was, we got so much out of it. And I think we would have the experience we had if we were wearing it else. I wouldn't have that deployment if I would say I went to CAF or anything like that. I mean, really truly, it was just us. That was our deployment. We were fully controlled over it. And definitely learned a lot. and had a ton of experiences. I mean for God's sake, we had another Hilo crash at this fob.

Thank God it wasn't as horrific as the first one I experienced. Hilo coming in at 47 came in crashed on our fob. Shit. Came in nose down, because our HLC was kind of a slope. Came in nose down, dust himself out, slow rolled into the corner of our Hesco barriers, which Hesco barriers are filled with dirt on the border of the site. Hit that, completely destroyed that 47. Split the front in and half, destroyed every blade. There's a mark 19 destroyed that 47. Split the front in and a half, destroyed every blade.

There's a mark 19 in that corner, so grenades are going off. Shit. Like it sounded like we just, like everyone was inside at this time. It was midday when like two people were out there. That's how you're getting hit. Oh yeah.

I can run out there. Oh, I was like in my tent. I remember when I heard this huge explosion grab my med bag. could run out there. I was like in my tent. I remember when I heard this huge explosion grow out my med bag, fucking ran out there, looked and I see it 47 just blown up. I mean, this thing was shreds. Believe it or not, the crew survived. I was like, holy shit.

That just fucked me up. Yeah. These guys were crushed up into the front end. The two side door gunners were smashed up into it because of the whole front end nose crunched. And these dudes, they're beat to shit, but they survived. Shit. Yeah, it was unbelievable.

Did you guys lose anybody on that deployment? Only we didn't know. No team guys, no American forces. We lost one of our close partner forces, one of the guys that lived on the base with us. Our counter ID, guys, their head dude, their leader was shot in the head, killed, turned it up, turned it take. Lucky shot. I mean, it was actually kind of it was a hard loss even for us because he We became close with them because there was only six of them these guys were northern Afghanis and these dudes fucking hate Taliban yeah, the past and people that live in the South so these dudes were Really truly there for the right cause right right reason, fight for their country.

And they're fucking good at what they did to be on. Yeah, they're fucking good. It was good to see that and motivated us. Yeah. If we could just work with them, we're like, we're just taking you guys, fuck everyone else. That's one thing I've noticed about the Afghans versus my personal experience with their Iraqis is their Iraqis, most of them we had those guys attached to us. Most of them were fucking lazy and they didn't really want to be there. But on the other hand, the Afghans, I mean those are some fucking dedicated fighters.

And they want to make shit happen and they want to fucking be there. And which is really cool to see, you know, that to see a host nation, you know, wanting to, you know, do the right thing. But... Yeah, it was humbling to see that shit, because it makes you want to do your job harder. Like, is your there of helping them out,

fighting for their country and your country? And you see that? It was good. It was hard for their team to loss. They actually quit. They all left because they didn't want to work anymore because they lost their commander. But eventually, talked them back and came back to us. Yeah. It was a difficult time, but overall, experience for the books, man. Yeah, sounds like it. Yeah. I'm going to

take another call. We got a mutual friend on the line who was there, that whole second second employment with you. Jeff Reed. About time. Jeff Reed from Frozen Trident. How the hell are you? Dude, I am doing great. How are you doing? Pretty good, man. So I got a buddy of yours that I think you might know

on my show right now, Travis Kennedy. Hell yeah. Hell yeah, good to hear your voice, man. Good to hear you, bro. How you doing? I'm doing good, man. Glad you got to call in. So I got a question for you guys. I was scouring through both your Instagrams before you got here, and there's a picture of you and Jeff and another guy's face that's blurred out

and you're sitting against a mud wall with a big shitting and grin on both your faces and you're talking about a big engagement that just happened the whole night before and I was wondering if I could get both your guys' perspective on what happened that night. I could get both your guys' perspective on what happened that night. Take it off, Jeff. So that off, I believe that first off, man, every pretty much were on a base or at any time we crossed a everyone out on an off, got to get wet. That was given.

So we went out, which was a lot. It was in and out, man. We were usually wet from the wake down. And I think if I remember that picture, but other pollers were broken up in two different areas because we started out in kind of remote area. And then we finished in more of the open area. Do you know what Berture's time after having it? kind of remote area and we've finished it in more of the open area. Yeah, I do, man. Is that one? That picture was on the very end of the op. I mean, the insert

X-Fill, it was over, it was damn near 15K and throughout the night. Yeah, now Yeah, we did on the way there and then we cleared it did a village clearance We ended up just laughing because that's what we did a video We're waiting for our vix to come in and it was just so damn long. That was one of our biggest, one of the biggest ups. I think we did that deployment because it was just so long and we had a lot of people with us. And again, yeah, Jeff said every time we went out, literally, we were wet. And then we, I think at the end, we the end, everyone was just at such exhaustion, like so fucking tired.

We're leaning, it post up against this wall of me and Jeff and then two of our buddies. Actually, two guys next to us were the, are you a D guys? I know you remember them, but we were just fucking both shooting the shit, just fucking suffering and laughing at the same time

because we were so fucking beat to shit. We just patrolled in for all nighter, cleared this big ass village, gotten some ticks, cleared IEDs, we had a lot of overhead, Jeff was dealing all the overhead, and then we ex-filled back, humped it back, and that took us all damn day

to hump that back that far, and then we were just posted up waiting, sitting there for hours, just for our vix to come get us. It was, it was, it was pretty funny. Jeff's been dealing with voices in his head ever since I've known him. But, sorry.

You're the only one. But, Jeff, when I talked to you and asked you to give a call in, you had a question for Travis about some Carl Gustaf rounds. And for you, civilian types out there, Carl Gustaf is basically a big- ass rocket launcher that's shoulder fired. So why don't you go ahead and fire that question off, Jeff? I do because everyone thought I fuck a mortar hit me That is the start of my hearing loss right there. Next to the call, Goose thought about you, Pro-In. Oh, shit.

Yeah, I did. I'm very glad because our LPO thought a fucking mortar hit me. Me and Blake were shooting it. I shot it. He loaded it for me. I staged it right outside in a little tri-wall, a little cardboard box outside of my tent, because I couldn't, there wasn't any room. So I ran out, I knew our stage had grabbed the goose off.

He grabbed the rounds, and we fucking ran to the corner of the fog, and we fucking launched that thing right at the mountain. The same mountain we always got hit at. Literally the same Zach mountain at every time. Did you get hit from there again? I think so, that was right, we got hit there again. What are we gonna take 30, and usually all we have head from there again. I think so. That was right. We got hit there again. We got to take

30 and usually all we have. Like right at sunset. See. We like ask getting close to take 30. It's just get our kid on. Keep the boots on. How many rounds did you fire? I think I just a couple just couple. Yeah, but I use that more than once. Well, just a couple of caros to have rounds. Yeah. Fucking shopping mall. But because our LPO was up on top of that little deck above the kitchen. He looked down and saw like this massive explosion. And he told me afterwards he said my fucking heart stopped.

Base attack. A 10. So got shot up. Seven rap words going by the holy crap. Or more than that. The 10. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big one, dude. I was they thought they had had a bonus because we were fresh Yeah, they were so our base was along the Argonneau River and there's the river kind of hide It's like we call it the green zone, right? Because it has a bunch of trees and vegetation

They've not getting through the air and actually are getting close enough or we're launching our PG to add us. And it's a pretty crazy base deck. No shit. Well, Jeff Travis tells me this was probably the most, the most eventful deployment of the three that he did. What would you say about that? I'll definitely hands down because it's not felt like when we left the wire, when we went

right, when we crossed the river, when we got shot at everything at time. When we made a raft, we found IEDs about 75% of the time. So it's like, what do we want to do today? Do we want to go for some IEDs up? Or do we want to go get a, you're getting a scrap? What do you guys do? Flip a coin? We've got to make sure a route, like we run, if we can just, if we didn't keep a presence out, there'd be IDs everywhere. So we start to maintain a, you know, a push out, have, have our control in that area. True, but we prefer to get actually getting the fight no one likes nothing to I.D.

Yeah, yeah. And we're debating whether we wanted to get our boost wet. That's the toughest decision of the opponent right there. Which 20 degrees and you've done to do a river crossing and you're going to be up in the mountains for a day and a half doing an overwatch, man man that's honestly some of the closest I've ever been and the hardest I've ever spooned with another man. Yeah well if it was worth it I'll bet it was worth it to dish out some love to the you know local haters. Yeah well Jeff

thanks for calling in man you get any words for Travis where we up and the call Thanks Jeff to good head for your voice brother. Hope you're well. All right Jeff You two man tell the wife tell the kid I said hello and You two, man. Tell the wife, tell the kid I said hello, and especially dance or two, that's my favorite one. So. I'll draw on your first and treat you, too, man. All right, be safe, Jeff.

Very nice. Bye-bye. That was good hearing his voice. That's the last call I promised. But how's that? Did that take you back? I mean, it did, yeah. Did it make you miss it a little bit maybe?

Yeah, maybe miss being around guys like Jeff. Yeah. Honestly, it's been a while since I even talked to him. So it was good to hear his voice and reminisce. Yeah, I don't get to do that often. Yeah, and none of us are as good as we'd like to be a keeping in touch. And sometimes the best thing for us, in my opinion,

is to separate yourself at least for a little while from, you know, the majority of the community to find your new way. But so we've already established that your second deployment was a really eventful one. You come back home again for the second time. Did you know you were going back to combat again for a third time or? No, I wasn't, I knew, I was, at that time I was going to a buzz instructor. Oh, okay, you want to become a buzz instructor.

Yeah. Did you want to do that? Yeah. You're ready for a break? Yeah, I was ready. They asked me if I wanted to do something different and that was the only way I was going to leave. They were trying to force dudes out to go to trade at at the time. Yeah. And I was like, no, I was like, I'm not going there. If I'm going to do something I want to do, I want to be a budge instructor. Yeah. I'm going to be at the forefront of the training.

a Buds instructor. Yeah. I'll be at the forefront of the training. And I knew I wanted to be Buds instructor at first phase. Oh, you were first phase. Yeah, I was first phase. And that was my goal. You were a total fucking dickhead then. Yeah.

All right. I was like the quiet, quiet fucking dickhead out the landish instructor yelling and screaming. But that's like the worst kind. You never knew what I wanted. I knew what I wanted. Yeah. So I said, I had. I knew what I wanted. Yeah. So I said, I had the opportunity.

It was hard to get because the guy's going from east to west, it's a fate. You know, it's not hard to do. Leadership's not really prone to let guys do that, but I guess they're, said, screw it, and let me do it. You went too out. So you come home from deployment. It was a rough one.

You guys did a lot of good shit. Got a lot of combat in. You go straight to Buds as a first phase instructor when you got back. Got back to it. Obviously did some break, some leave. Cool down. Lauren R. And then as soon as I was done with that, it was later I got orders to go to Buds.

I called him ahead of time, was like, look I'm coming there, I wanna go first phase. And they're like, all right, you got it. I'm gonna shoot. Yeah. And I just checked in, simple as that. Well, this is interesting, because you were so motivated

to become a seal and talking to your dad that, I mean, he had no doubt you were going to make it. And then you go to combat, or you make it through, you go to combat, you do two pumps. You had some, you took some heavies, you got a lot of combat time. How did your mentality change towards, I mean, you show up and you got 200 men,

you know, some of them are still fucking kids. Others are, you know, little older, trying to, you know, prove to themselves, they can make it. What, I'm always curious, like, what do you think of the, what do you, when you see 200 people that all want to be exactly what you are and none of them, almost none of them have any fucking idea of what they're about to go through, if in the unlikely event that they make it. What do you think of the, what do you think of the class? Are you right away I know 80% of them are not going to be there. And I don't say that overtly, but I just know.

But I take it, when I've learned when I was an instructor, I was definitely a growing experience for me. I would say professionally and maturity, for sure. Just being, once you walk into that, it's just like a bubble, it's own world, like as an instructor, even as students, like, but as an instructor, you're held, you're on a pedestal, whether you think so or not, you're a god to these students. And they're mine, they wanna be you.

So it's definitely upholding the standard and exceeding the standard, but when I look at students, I just whenever I saw a fresh class, I've always took it as a fresh start. I mean, they needed to prove themselves to me. I get blank slate for them until proven otherwise. Okay. We had, sometimes we classed up looking at him,

sometimes as classes went on, I became inherently just I could look at a guy and be like, no. No shit, not happening. Were you ever wrong? Couple of times. Yeah, the nerdyest looking fucking dweeb sometimes makes it, huh? No shit. Not happening. Were you ever wrong? Couple times. Yeah. The nerdyest looking fucking dweeb sometimes makes it, huh?

I mean, nine times out of 10, fuck, makes it. Yeah. People think, you know, so concerned about size, weight, strength, et cetera. It's those guys that are put out more than, I've seen D1 athletes, guys with everything, like supposed to be athletic studs, just quit day one. Yeah.

So there's no, you can't pinpoint it. What I've learned, you can't pinpoint like he's going to be good. He's not. He's solid. He's not, you know, it's so broad. You know, he just never could tell who wants it more. So it's time, it's all proven in action. It's like, someone could say they want it, but that doesn't mean shit until you're out there.

I mean, you've been through a lot at this point. And, I mean, did you have any animosity towards the students? Did you want them to quit? Or did you, did you, like, talk, talking about when you look at a class and you have just come from what you've come through and you're still at a young age, I mean, what are you, are you thinking I'm gonna fucking crush you? You're going to quit or are you thinking? No, I definitely had that mindset with certain individuals, not everybody. I could tell I would get really fucking pissed and angry at certain students, just based

off their performance and just lack of mental strength and just the want to be there, because you hear everything in the wind and why they're there, you know, why they're not performing, etc. or quitting. So it was just frustrating to me as well as the other instructors. And I got to work with some season instructors too. There'd been majority of them, if not all of them, a couple, all combat.

Really? And all the leadership were damn Nick. Okay. So season guys, so the tolerance for not putting out or not wanting to be there with Zilch for everybody the patients were so I got I It was so easy what I learned as an instructor was so easy To see the negative in somebody to Like we are so quick decide we we spoke about it like eating your own so fast. Yeah, we are so fast I found it because I did it

and so fast. Yeah. We were so fast, I found it, because I did it, just to find so negative performance in somebody. And they may be doing okay, but soon as they slip up just a little bit, we're on it. They're not sure. They may be okay. He may be like overall a decent up to that point, but maybe just having a bad fucking day or something.

But soon as he has a bad fucking day, we're on him, trying to get him out of there. I found myself jumping to the negativity so fast, by looking at everything, like is this guy performing, and see what is he doing up to this point, at what's his reputation in class, et cetera, looking at the bigger picture. I was always front-side focused on making dudes quit at first, which I found out that was kind of like,

that was a wrong approach. I shouldn't have done that right out the gate. Our goal wasn't just to fucking make dudes quit. We want to get rid of the guys and want to be there. And the program gets rid of the guys, itself. It hasn't been changed, the proven system. The guys are gonna to leave because the curriculum is what it is. Structures are just there to hold the standards.

Did your mindset start to change while you were at first phase as an instructor or did your mindset change like after you left thinking back on how everything went. It changed while I was there. I would say it changed when I became a proctor of a class. And I was like the lead instructor of Class 305. And I really got to get to know the class. I was there guy, I was there conduit between the rest instructors. I would meet with them, talk with them, make sure they have all their shit scored away

for the next day. Meet with them on the weekends. I became close and built a relationship with the guys. At first, I'm just, I'm there to help with scheduling and just help the class and weed out the people I don't want to be there. But as time goes on, you build a relationship because you're with them the entire seven weeks of first phase. So I grew, that's where I think I definitely grew as an instructor in as a seal as far as maturity is concerned.

No, sure. Because that responsibility too, because you're the go-to guy, you're not just another instructor out there yelling and screaming, you know, I had another student. They're looking up to you. Like, hey, they're meeting with you every night. They can go to you to talk to you. And I would meet with them at night and tell them, hey, this is what you're fucking up. This is what you're doing good.

This is what you need to be squared away. Or I would remediate them to let them know that, hey, you've been fucking up this whole day. So I definitely definitely grew during that one class and then after that point the rest of class I was there. I was there for another six or seven classes. It definitely carried with me throughout. Would you say maybe not right off the bat maybe this came later maybe it didn't come at all. But would you say there is?

Is there any specific common denominator that? You're looking for in the guys that are coming through the training. I'm looking for that strong why that's strong why why they want to do it. Yeah, and Everyone has their own and there's not some blanket statement that's going to be good enough. But everyone has their own reasons why. But it has to be, for me, what I saw a lot of, it wasn't about the job. It was more about, I just want to do buds, or I just want to try it, challenge. Yeah. That was it.

That was like the sole focus. In the eye and in the self, it is a challenge. Yeah, you should want to complete buds. But that's just a stepping stone to becoming a Navy SEAL. That's not the end all be all. And I found a lot of the students didn't really know why the hell they were there. Vice just being there just because they saw it online or, you know, they woke up one day and started to prepare six months or less than that for buds. just being there just because they saw it online or you know they woke up one day and

started to prepare six months or less than that for buds. Yeah, and yeah, they met the standards to get there, but that's it. Yeah, just because you could pass a COPST doesn't mean you're gonna make it through. And it doesn't and honestly when you have a week, I tell these guys people all the time, if you have a week, why or that trickles down in your motivation, everything. You're going to get weeded out quick. That why is not going to hold up against all the demands that especially first phase requires of you. Yeah. That's going to get in and out of your mind quick.

So if you don't want to be a seal and do the fucking job down range, what, you know, when I was there, too many people still going overseas. Yeah. It kind of died down range. When I was there too many people still going overseas. So it kind of died down there. Yeah, died down right when I got back. Because last point I finished in 2013. And then we're slowly kind of removing guys from Afghanistan, especially the team guys.

Yeah. So barely anyone was going there when I was an instructor. So I don't think they maybe just didn't have a clue or didn't really think about it, but again, this is not a blanket statement for every student, but for the people that quit or I saw lack of performance and when I especially when I was a proctor and spoke to him, it was that it kind of all boiled down to that. It wasn't like, oh, my legs hurt, I'm tired.

It was like, I always had a lot of the hell you've been here. Makes sense. Is there as much as we eat our own and we do, eat our own, and we're probably the best out of it, out of all the other branches, which I don't necessarily think is a fucking good thing. But at the same pill, we're also extremely fucking tight net. And we have each other's back on deployment. I might not like you.

I might not want to be around you. But when you're on deployment, things change. And you have to have that fucking teamwork. So, as an instructor, do you teach that or is that something that you think that guys come to the table with it? It's just like in their heart. It comes that I think guys show up with that. It comes to the table with that kind of mentality already. That's why they're there.

That's what kind of a part of the why I'd probably drove into the program. We don't give no PowerPoint on being a team player, teamwork. It's just driven into them like right away, even before they even phase up to first phase. It's like you're in Bo Crews, you're in a class, you're part of a team, you need to work together. Otherwise, you're're gonna fail. So the program does it inherently and then we're there to reinforce it and make sure that that standards held.

When you have guys that show up that aren't team players and a lot of times these are your division one types, division one athletes, Olympic athletes, sometimes it's guys from other branches that are just crushing the fucking runs, crushing the swims, they're the top performers, but, and then they wanna gloat, and they wanna be fucking praised for how well they're performing,

but they're not a team player. How do you, is it hard to get those guys to quit? Do you try to get them to quit? I've always seen them. It kind of, just like you said, the program kind of takes care of itself. How do those guys wind up washing out? I think the majority, they do wash out. The program will expose them, and then so will the class, to be honest with you,

because they see right through that shit. And they're not, and even the class leaders and the Boca leaders, they may be in charge, may not be. You know, even they may be just a lower ranking, but a D1 athlete or something or maybe an officer, but even still they're going to get exposed and they'll be oust by the class pretty quickly. When I see when I was an instructor, we touched on it at social pressure and if you're not a part of the team, you're going to be quickly cut out of the team.

Because that happens quick too. And then structures will kind of help and reinforce that as well. We help. We help, hey, what's up with this guy? You know what, you guys are going to do something about it. Talk to the class leader, maybe he's a boat leader, or maybe he's an officer. We talk to the class OIC to talk to him. So there's ways to expose that if we see,

because maybe he'd be crushed and passing every test, but again, he's standing out because he's not being a part of the team. He thinks he's above the rest. Those things you could see quickly in Buds. Those discrepancies in people. Even as an instructor. You think you see it faster as an instructor as you do as a student?

That's a classic, I would see it before us. His own boat crew would definitely see it before us. Because those occasions, that those arrogance, that entitlement may not show because he could be passing tests. He could be passing all the runs, the swim. So he could kind of slip by a little bit because he's performing just on a performance standard. But as soon as we start doing team

evolutions, the boats, the logs, rock port, surf passes, et cetera, that's when people like that start showing. OK. Because he's not putting out. He's just in the same position all the time. He's not moving, holding his ways, not

shifting, like, for the boats, boats on his, like number two spot, which is directly in the middle of the boat. The heaviest spot where all the water goes, middle of the boat, the heaviest spot, where all the water goes kind of rest in the center and it bows to, so all the weight kind of centers in the boat. He'll never go to that position or if he's on the logs, he'll never go to the end of the log, where all the weight lies. Everyone tries all the turns of people who don't want to put out, don't want to be part of the team, go to the center where they could pretend like they're carrying something. Yeah.

Because everyone else in the end is carrying the weight. So they know, they find out these little tricks that we know of. The instructors see it all the time and we pick up on it because we see the same faces in the class we'll see it too, but we notice the same exact faces, the same spot every time. Yeah. How do you deal with that as an instructor? Do you give them like a little extra- Give them extra attention?

Extra benefit. Oh, yeah. To entice them to ring the bell. We'll give them some extra motivation. Yeah. I'll definitely- I'll definitely- If we notice something during the evolution, we'll shift them to the spot where we think

it's the toughest. Would you- I think you can getatum in front of the entire class? Humiliate them, no. No. Not humiliate. Okay. If he was doing what I would just describe, we would tell him to go back to the position to the two spot or the end of the log and stay there.

Okay. And you're going to stay there until you either quit or you start putting out for your boat crew More often than not they tend to fall out yeah, or start Collapsing their whole tire boat crew because they're holding their weight and everyone else starts carrying the more load more tired It's just like a snowball effect and it starts dying off. So I was always I've always been like really curious about like and when it starts dying off. So I've always been really curious about, like, you get these guys sometimes, and I've never was an instructor, so this is why I'm so curious,

is you get these guys that they just can't fucking hang, they don't put out, the bo crew is basically, carrying them through hell week especially and nobody seems to be able to force these fuckers to quit and but they do wind up disappearing. So if you got a guy and you're an instructor who he's not cutting it his bo crew's suffering he's not a team player he's hanging on by a thread because he just won't ring the fucking bell. Like how does he like disappear?

We, it's pretty easily actually for, we just wrote right him up performance wise. You just perform it, drop him right there. No shit. He's over a series of evolutions, not just one shit He's over a series of evolutions not just one time Yeah, but over a series of evolutions over a couple of days maybe a week of just not Performing or hacking it after being warned Done and we just pull from the class. Okay, sometimes people do squeak by though that being said You know, but yeah, performance dropped.

Okay. It would be the way to get rid of these guys. I have another question, too. I've never actually met a Buds quitter. I don't know if you have this, too, but everybody seems to get medical dropped. You know, I mean, I've met a ton of buds quarters, but nobody ever admits that they always say,

oh, I've been med dropped. And I know when I was going through buds, they would actually give, they would give them a choice like, well, would you like to be med dropped? And is that, is that how that goes? You just tell them, yeah, you don't have to bring it. Just, no.

OK. Nope. Student clearly just wants the DOR or drop on request. He has to ring the bell. OK. Cut and dry. But if it's for a medical, it's only at reason he's going to get med dropped

if it's for a severe medical issue. I'm talking severe. Because right now, at least when I was there, my experience It's only it's easy to get med dropped if it's for a severe medical issue. I'm talking severe because right now, at least when I was there, my experience has a very good medical system there and they'll rehab you up. They'll rehab the student back to full health and put them back in the class. If he injured stress fractures or whatever that was like kind of induced because of the training, they'll rehab you up and get you back in the class. If your performance dropped or performance dropped, it's not like, hey, do you want it just to write down

a med drop, but you really got performance dropped? Or you do R and we just wrote down, you got med dropped, no way. You quit, you quit. I think it, and I've come across that to myself, they're lying. They're just straight up, just they don't want to admit to themselves or others

that they just quit. Just a flat out liar. It's flat out liar. I haven't met a couple guys where they've approached me like, no, I quit or they just straight up and those are far-fuing between. But I respect that more than, you know, I don't hold it against them, I'll give a shit.

But. It's not for everyone. Yeah, it's not for everyone, but if you're straight up, those people who do that just straight liars, so they're lining themselves, because we don't give a shit. Yeah, I've met a ton of medjobs, I've never met a quitter.

Yeah, so yeah, same here. It's kind of funny. Let's dive into the infamous hell week. You went through it, I went through it. When you go back as an instructor, and you see what these guys are going through in hell week, and you've already done it, I mean, does it look as bad as when you were going through it?

Does it look worse? Does it look the same? I don't know, I was an instructor, it's like that behind the curtain look. But it definitely looks worse as a student. Does it? Yeah. As an instructor, it's not that bad.

But it's by no means as it changes. It's tough as hell. But I don't know. When I look, I could hardly remember, when I look back, think back at my hell week, I could hardly remember some evolutions. Yeah, I did. As an instructor, I could remember it

because I work a tons of them, but working them as an instructor. Sorry, I remember everything. Would you say that was your favorite evolution to work as an instructor? Camp surf. Camp surf. Camp surf, yeah. We call it camp surf as like Wednesday night. So midweek kind of Wednesday night dudes made it because that following

days like messing around and doing the round the world. You're done. But camp surfs like Millenite by the old course build this huge fire pit and then huge pit right next to it where all the students lie, and it's like we make a little stage, and they tell us jokes, and they're jokes shit. We send them to the surf zone, laugh at them, and if they're good, let them go stand by the fire for a couple of minutes, warm them up, and the kind of the whole class will go through, and then we'll punish them.

Occasionally, we had a tradition where we brought them food. Punish them, how? If they fall on the sleep, we could wake them all up, send them to the surf mill and I surf it after surf it after surf it. That's the worst thing in hell week. We would just do hundreds of, hit the surf, hit the surf, hit the surf. I mean these guys are just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And that water is freezing ass.

Freezing ass in the middle of the night. Fiftys? Fiftys. 50s. 50s and night. Summer time, it's a little bit warmer. I would say it's a little like low 60s, to mid 60s, even then. Whether it's summer, winter, it doesn't matter because we just keep you in the water longer and trust me, you're going to freeze just as much as you froze and the winter time, even in the water longer. And trust me, you're gonna freeze just as much of you froze and then wintertime, even in the summer. Yeah.

You know, like, you watch Discovery watch, you know, the Hollywood class and the documentaries and you read the books and now they see all the pictures on social media and stuff. But these guys watch and Discovery channel, they see guys rolling around in the surf and carrying logs and carrying boats. But what they don't see is the shit that you can't see that you know as an instructor and

you find out real fast as a student like the chafing from the sand and in your armpits on your groin and your junk. And, you know, from the sand rubbing back and forth and that dries. And I feel like the instructor is no at dries and that's Cammy's are like stuck to the side of your sack. And as soon as the class is dry it's like hey we're going to go for a run. As soon as you run And as soon as the class is dry, it's like, hey, we're going to go for a run. As soon as you run, those pants are crusted to that chafing and it rips the skin right off everything. And then, so that burns like hell. And then it's, hey, get your ass back in the water and then you're throwing an open wound

into the water. And are you guys, I mean, do you guys take, do you realize, you remember that shit when you were going through, do you know that's going on with the class? I mean, oh yeah, I know, we know it's going on because it's happening. When I was a student, I knew it was going on because I was living it.

So it was the class. Some got it worse than others. And like I said, when we, every morning, they get med checks. So they get seen by a doctor and get, if it's horrible, they'll get if it's horrible they'll get it treated or they'll get it bandaged, but again as instructors we're not holding up training because we know some students have chafing some may have it way worse than others, I'm seeing students

there were literally covered in chaff arms, armpits, chest, waist, groin legs, I mean look like they just fell off the motorcycle on the street I mean it's horrible, how bad some people get affected a motorcycle on the street. I mean, it's horrible. How bad some people get affected. Some people get affected more than others. I don't know why. But it doesn't, we don't alter training because students are experiencing some burn pains. If anything, that's as part of the process. And hey, man, if you can't handle that, then get out of here. Yeah, I got a burning sensation of my growing, you know, welcome to the SEAL team. Welcome to the SEAL team. I think that's part of the process and welcome to the SEAL team exactly.

In Hell Week, is there a specific evolution where guys start dropping off immediately at least or is it always random? Like is it is it break out when you're breaking them out of the tents? Is it a log PT? Is it or it? It's not breakout to be honest. We don't lose a lot of guys. If we're gonna lose a lot, only time we ever lose right when Hell Week starts is before it even kicks off. Because we lock them down into a tent or a room before a hell we kicks off like three hours prior and we'll get some stragglers that will just walk up and ring out before hell we keep it because they can't handle the stress and not

even do anything they're just watching a movie laid up eating so we'll get some strilers but it's not until maybe that night we're doing base tour boats on heads running all over budss Compound, across the street, the dry side, running all over there, and then maybe doing also another one's steel pier. We call it, which we just, the whole evolution is all about freezing the students. Just a mental gut check. What happens when a student gets hypothermia, is that end of the evolution, or is that end of the evolution

for that specific student? Depends on the severity, but it's just that the evolution continues on. We just pull him out, re-warm him if we can, if it's something we can deal with, if it's severe, then we'll, with our ambulance driving back to the clinic.

But nine times out of 10, we could just handle it on the spot, get a quick temp, warm them up, put a blanket around them, dry them off, beanie coat, et cetera, for a little while, which I feel is the worst thing, because we warm them up. And then the series is good to go. He's coherent, he's back normally,

he's like all cozy and falling asleep, where like hey, wake the fuck up, go hit the surf. Get your ass back out there. Get your ass back out there, start training if you want to be here. Yeah. Would you say the majority of the quarters come from the first night? See the first, yeah.

First 24 hours. Yeah, first 24 hours, 24 to 32 hours. Say you get the majority. the middle end of the middle week and the Wednesday night, you pretty much have what you're gonna have at the end of the whole week. Yeah. Whether someone gets hurt or anything, but as far as quiders are concerned, pretty much stop Wednesday night going to Thursday morning.

When hell week is secure as an instructor, do you, and your looking at 20 guys out of 150 who just made it through what's only what, through four fucking weeks in? Do you feel any sense of pride for those individuals that have gutted that out as an instructor looking at them and knowing what they're getting ready to go to. Oh yeah, definitely a huge accomplishment on their end. And they've earned a level of respect, at least how I viewed it. And then other instructors did too when I was there. And it kind of proved to me that for one, they want to be there for two, they're ready to get trained.

Up until that point, now we can start. For one, they want to be there for two. They're ready to get trained. Up until that point, now we can start. We have the core of guys in this class that want to be here, because they just passed the most grilling part of selection. Now it's time to kind of put them to the test other ways, but we have a solid foundation of the guys that want to be here. Because not going to get any quarters after that. Very, very rare.

Yeah. It's mostly just performance or medical issues. But that, it's definitely a level of respect. And they prove to us that they're ready to be trained. After a whole week, it becomes, man, I don't want to word this wrong. But it's a little bit of pressure's off. You just made it through, know the heart it is the hardest

evolution in buds in my opinion and it is a night and day difference coming from hell week into into post hell week you know one day you're wearing a white shirt you graduate hell week you're a shirt, and then you get a little bit more respect, at least when I was going through, you get a little bit more respect. Is it hard to like switch that mindset as an instructor, is it still like that? No, it's still like that. You do get a little more of a level of respect from the instructors, because like I said after that, the training kind of shifts they break up into

squat their own squads and we start kind of building that platoon mindset and actually train start teaching them kind of some core skills of being the seal but that is as a real fine line though because sometimes students take it a little too far like they've been made it they're fucking good they're good to go but then we quickly crush that because they're getting a little too arrogant yeah so I've seen that happen a lot with classes you know they finish how weak they think they're fucking good to go they made it at the brown shirt or fucking a cloud nine but we squash it and then it never happen again.

Usually the proctor is that sniff through that shit and they say, they hammer it. You're looking at one. I got squash right after how we, but you know, and looking at these guys, as they're going through, I mean, you always have in the back of your mind, you might be, you might be with that guy that you're instructing in, I mean, fuck it, what, a year in combat, taking fire, engaging the enemy,

and that's always in the back of your mind. If you ever worked with any of the guys you put through buds when you went back to the team? Yeah, I worked as a couple. How was that relationship? It was good. I mean it was definitely knowing them when the instructor was different dynamic but it didn't be in some of them out there LPO. Yeah. So it was actually a good relationship. It wasn't uncomfortable or

it but at first they saw me as like an instructor when they got to the team and in my Platoon so they already had that mindset like oh shit you know that's instructor Kennedy but that quickly faded when I just Set the tone of hey your new gab your teammate, you know me all P.O. But but it didn't It wasn't a negative thing at all. I actually kind of liked it. It was kind of really cool to see them there and buds. The progression.

The progression now they're actually with me and actually the team doing the job. So it was cool to see that process. That's why I liked first phase. That's why I wanted to go to first phase because that growth through all the meat of the selection and the outcome at the end. So that's the reason why I like that phase a lot. I mean, shit is pretty fucking cool.

I mean, you're basically like the gatekeeper of the community being a first phase instructor or the you know the biggest I mean that's the biggest hurdle yeah being an instructor and and going back when these guys graduate buds and and SKT I mean because you're part of that entire pipeline at least a little bit do you feel like these guys are ready once they finish buds or SKT yeah yeah I did do. I'm not ready to go. Yeah, I feel like they're ready. The end product is solid.

Even while I was a instructor, I know today it is too. So the program is what it is for a reason, and it produces really good team guys. You know, that's my opinion opinion and that's what I've seen and that's what I know is true, but the outcome's great. Here and there, you know, get some stragglers that get to the team and don't perform and they kind of look back and like what the fuck,

buds, why'd you let this guy slip through? But that's small. You know, that happens sometimes. We can't really, we do our best to mitigate it, but it can only do so much. Is there anything you would like to see implemented in buds that you think will prepare guys more for showing up to the team or prepare them more for like the mindset.

They make a better seal. Is there anything you would like to see implemented in the Buds program as an instructor that would make a better team guy and end result? Yeah, I would say for the leadership, let the instructors do their job, which will produce a better result as for a student, because you give them restrictions, they're not going to build an enforce. The standards, which then trickles down to it, they're not going to have the right mindset going forward. They're not doing well with the teamwork, you know, that mentality, etc., mental toughness. So when your hands are tied from the top,

that's going to trickle down into the class because the class is a direct reflection of the instructing staff and how much they uphold the standards and all the physical aspect and everything else so What I do like at the very what I was there at the very end they did implement the mentors I Think they need a hammer that a little bit home more They assign instructors they split the class up in squads and they assign an instructor to each squad as like a mentor. Oh really? So they kind of hammer down, go full force on that. That way you build relationships with these guys and I got to do it one time because they start it was an fairly new thing.

But those guys that I mentor were later on in my platoon working for me. No shit. So I thought it was a really cool tool. You really get to like get into mindset. They could ask you questions. And you're actually out there teaching them kind of the fundamentals of being a seal and building that relationship. And it paid dividends, which I saw throughout

the rest of the phases. Cause like you said, you know, you're gonna be working with majority of these guys. Yeah. Most of the instructors that they leave buds and go onto the team or something, you're going to be working with these guys. So, you need to have, and you get to understand where they're at, too, mentally. You know, are they in the right mindset?

Do they have the right characteristics? You know, whether we, that's how we get to know these people. You know, some psych exam they took before is not like a good, very good marker, whether they're gonna be a good team guy or not. They're still trying to figure out how to find the best candidates today. And I don't think they ever will, but being more intimately involved in like knowing the guys, that's gonna help. Getting to know actually who they are is the person.

What's inside. Who they are that you understand like why they're is the person, what's inside. Yeah. Who they are, you understand like why they're here. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Where they come from, what do they use to do? What do they in do? Why do you want to be a seal? What are you interested in doing?

Yeah. And I think, because I like the seal community like from everywhere, you know? So many different backgrounds, so many different professions. Yeah. And that's what come together for just one purpose. That's what I like. This team's a lot,

I wanted to do great aspects of it, but they just hammer home on that a lot more. And I think they still are, but just really focus on the post-how week and the first phase. I mean, that's actually very refreshing to hear that you're as an instructor, as a combat that are comfortable with the product that's coming out of the training center and showing up to the teams.

I mean, that's like, I mean, the ship that's all you can ask for. You know, there's a solid individual coming out of that pipeline, ready to fucking go to work. Yeah, 99% of them are freaking solid. It's the 1%ers that mess up and then they make everybody work bad. And that's just how it's always been and it's how it always will be. Soon as someone messes up, then everybody looks bad. Then they start spotlight like what kind of product you're giving us. When one turn shows up into

the team not performing, when the 15 other team new guys are that showed up are doing solid. And all of a sudden we're producing bad people. Yeah. It's just a numbers game and probability at that point, but like I said we're going back again. We always so quick to talk about the negative or bring that about, you know, vice, you know, hey, let's handle it internally. So that's going back again, that's what I've learned as a instructor. Like, just take a bigger picture, like, let's get to know these dudes. And I'll leave you a lot of problems in the future, a lot of issues when they get to the

team out and leave liberty, etc. Like their personal time, get in trouble with the locks, etc. Like all these little things. Probably could have gotten caught going through the program knowing where this guy is, what he's been doing. Maybe he has all these red flags throughout buds, like drinking, etc. which there has been.

So that could have been found a lot earlier for the show to the team, causing a scene. Yeah. So moving along, you finish up your time at Buds and then you go back to the teams. What team did you go back to? Forgan. We went back to Forgan and where were you going this time?

This time I got signed a three-trups. I knew it was Southcom. At the time it was one troop was going to Africa. Two was you come. Three troop was Southcom. Team falling back to its roots. Southcom was this AO because all St.com kind of died off. East Coast teams were not going there at all. The most kinetic place was Africa. And even that wasn't nearly as kinetic as Afghanistan when I went there. So I ended up going to Columbia, did my LPO tour, and what's the South Cump? How was that deployment?

I liked it, honestly. It was was that deployment? I liked it. It was really good deployment. I enjoyed it. It was very, very different in the first two I experienced. I mean, it was a little night and day difference. Working with the embassy, other, you know, host nation partner forces, a lot of FID, those you don't know for, internal defense. We're just training the local special forces a lot.

That was the main kind of main gig there. We're working with a lot of interagency. There's DEA, CIA there. So we've worked alongside of them. We helped train their forces. So a lot of joint advice and assist ops. What kind of ops will they counter drive? Counter drive.

All of them were counter-nacotic and local within their city. They utilize their military special forces to do basically police work in the city. So it's a little different dynamic than what you have. Like investigation type work or undercover work or as a DA's, I would just go and have a target and like, hey, we're going to go and arrest this guy. Okay, so they're hitting houses. They're hitting houses, yeah. Cool. Yeah. Are you with them? Yeah, we're parts of block over in the street. Okay, you're command and control. Yeah, we did a advising and assisting them. We're not up there on the train or anything.

We're just sitting up onward, Vic, a block over, doing over watch. Okay. Make sure everything goes smooth. Are you proud of these guys? Do you get attached to them? Towards the end end I did. We also helped develop their whole selection process as well for their special forces unit. So I myself being like the lead guide down there in that part of Columbia had a lot invested in this

and I was proud of the product because we helped stand up their course which produced their Quantico operators. Yeah, so and I was pretty pleased on how Motivated and effective it was and how much time and effort they put into it. They took us seriously. So this is like a whole new this is a completely different mission than what you're used to being overseeing Foreign nationals operate in their own country and training them what to do and how to do everything and it sounds like you really enjoyed that and it was a nice change from

Yeah, I was at least it was definitely a Complete 180 I did a little bit of fit when I was in the Middle East, just a little bit, but this one was, that was kind of the main focus to give us access and placement in that country, regardless. And that's, that's what seals do. I mean, that's what we do. The majority of the job we're not war. That's what team guys do. So we got to have, the fit is important. It's part of the mission. Guys don't like it, but it needs to be done. So we did a lot of that, but I enjoyed my time there. I mean, it was, being in the AO was pretty comfortable.

Climb yourself. And that was your last deployment? That was my last one. How long after your last deployment, did you leave decide to separate out of the community? So I finished that deployment and then went to trade at the training command for two years. Oh good. I ended up being, I made chief, I ended up being the chief of SELC, special operations, urban combat, just another, it's just a training division in the big umbrella of all of the divisions.

Just I just taught was in charge of one of them. And I did that for two years. I spent a lot of time in Kentucky. That's where our training was out there. So, so Mount for Use civilian types is basically urban warfare. It's moving as a team, small unit tactics, in and out of urban environments, downtown cities, stuff like that. Heavily focused on that, leadership skills, communication, we did a lot of shooting, CQC, those quarters combat. That was kind of the culmination of the workup for guys, the assaults block, and

whatever all the team guys look forward to because the best block all the team guys want to do assaults. They all want to do CQC, I want to shoot it, I want to do D.A. So that's what that block is. But so I learned a lot. I learned a hell of a lot of, you know, things about being a seal, new skills, sharpen my skills, learn a lot more leadership stuff, just big kind of bigger pictures, kind of staff stuff being in that role, being like a chief of a cell. Yeah.

But it was two years. I mean, for our generation, that block of training, CQC, HITN HALES, Urban Movement, all that kind of stuff, I mean, that is the, I think, without a doubt, the single most important training block that we have with what's going on in the world today. And I'd love to hear your take on, I mean, you've been out, you've done it three times. Now you were a bud's instructor, now you're teaching, and you're seeing, you're seeing the final product, do what they want to do, and what they do best.

What does that look like from the outside, kind of looking in? I mean, are you like, holy shit? Like, these guys are fucking good. Or we've got a lot of work to do. I think it's a majority are pretty solid, but again, we need more time needs to be spent on it. We don't spend enough time.

They took away a week from the training. The trainings. Three weeks long, sock was salt blocks is two weeks long so total five weeks total salt block but more time is needed because that is like the meat of the skill set. Yeah. And if we're focusing more of attention on diving or mobility or we're taking away, if people hire up to see that maybe more of a priority than they're going to take away, they've taken away time from the sauce block because they don't see that it's necessary.

We need to focus our efforts maybe on more maritime. Were you impressed with the product coming out of that? The teams were. I had a mixed feelings sometimes. No shit. I think it was, I can name the teams. I'm not going to, I can name the teams that I liked. That really impressed me, but the teams I were like, they to, I can name the teams that I liked that really impressed me,

but I can, the teams that were like, they need more work. They just need more time. Yeah. They just didn't do it enough. They didn't do what happens is they just don't do enough prep work prior to the assault block on their own time. OK.

So they don't take it upon themselves to go rent out the kill house to do runs with older guys, teaching new guys, and just doing those reps before they get there to set themselves up for success. And it shows. Yeah. Let's move on towards transition. And I mean, there's all this preparation that

goes into going to combat, doing the job right, making sure your team player, all that stuff. And when I was in, there was no preparation for guys that are leaving that kind of a job, that kind of, you know, the things that you see and the things that you do. There was zero preparation for it. And what do you think about that and how was your separation? Were you nervous? Yeah, I was nervous. I knew about a year out that was, I was going to make the decision.

So I've already asked, what I felt was right for me. So I knew I was going to get out. But as far as like knowing what to do, are people helping me? None, I mean very limited, other than I really had to seek out and more often than not, I was people outside the community, not inside. Because if I told the first time, I told my leadership, I mean,

I'm job out and drop to the floor, like what the hell are you doing? You know, it was more like, and then afterwards I felt more like, hey, they're like, I hell you're doing, you know, is more like, and then afterwards I felt more like hey they're like a fuck you like you're leaving. Yeah. So that stigma is still floating around. There are, it's just kind of, what I've noticed is based on person person, it's not in general but, but about a year out I prepped, tried to line everything up myself, gave as much information

as I can. At the time I was thinking I was like really going back and forth what I wanted to do with my life after the teams. Before we get into that, before we get into after you're gone, I heard you saying in another podcast about, you talked about going and seeing psychiatrists and docs on your way home from deployment. We didn't have that when I was in. And even if we did, I don't know that any of us would have

opened up. Maybe it would have helped us. Maybe it wouldn't have. Do you, what kind of questions were they asking, did they seem genuine, were they there to help, did you open up to them? The ones post every deployment, I didn't really feel they were genuine, is more of a check in the block. Okay. Because we, after the Afghan deployments, both of them, we stopped in a town to take a weekend break

before it was in the States. We just took a weekend break and then we had every morning we wake up, meet like a certain type of doctor and it was more of a check in the block, a block for them. Like hey, you feeling good, check, always all right, get out of here. It wasn't until I was actually getting out. Now they have programs set in place. They have work and cushioned clinic. So they have these clinics set up for guys, especially special operators, that they really dive deep and get full body.

What's going on with you? Open it up. Everything from head to toe, they do. And honestly, it's a really good program. They take it seriously now because in the past, they didn't give two shits about this stuff. They didn't even think about it nor paid attention to it. So nowadays, it's more prevalent. So they did, I went through that, saw the cycle handful of times. At first, I was, I

don't think I ever really opened up. I mean, I talked a little bit. The beginning, the first couple of times I went, no, I didn't at all. I only went five times, but the last three times I talked a little bit, I opened up, I progressively opened up a little bit more, but by the time I was already out, I was always like front-side focused on, I wanted to get this done. It was part of the transition to go through this medical exam. It was like a month long. So I needed to get that done before I got out. But that being said, I felt that did help me though. It did. It did. It did. Part of that program to see all these different doctors and talk to them, it did help me. And there was a whole other, I think I had to do a physical thing for physical rehab

plan, got to see chiropractors, massage therapy, float tank therapy. Sure, they really stepped it up. Yeah, so that's a whole another month long too. So there are these programs that really kind of, before you get out to kind of just get your head right. I felt like it did for me and it got my head right a little bit, got me back on level ground and kind of kept me focused on my next move. Because before that I was like, I thought I knew what I was going to do but we'll get to that. But it's like, I'm really grateful that they have that now.

You got out. I know you tried out for a law enforcement agency. I'm not sure which one. You didn't make it. And I want you to tell us a little bit about who you were trying out with and why you think maybe you didn't make it. So I applied for the FBI. I would say, damn near a year before I got out, me and a couple of other guys did. I would say about the last 10 months. I went through the entire, not

the entire because I didn't make it, but three quarters of the process. And I thought, this is it. This is what I want to do. Great job. Do good things. Sort of my country still. Just a different capacity. So I was really stoked about this. I thought I was going to be the exception of the rule.

I've told you this about having issues transitioning. I thought I was going to be boom, just transfer right over. Get out, get right back into a federal job. Simple. I tried a time at just right, so I wouldn't, there's no lag time whatsoever. I went through all the process, and it was after the background check, all the background stuff, I got a letter saying no. So I, it's, it's had something to do with the background for me, probably the polygraph. Don't know why, they don't tell me. Yeah.

They don't tell me there. As more I just took it, did all the background check paperwork, everything. And simply, I didn't know until about a month after I actually got out and moved to California. Actually, why drove to California just to visit? No intentions on staying because I still had the foresight of, I made it, like I'm good, I'm going to get this job because I thought it to that point because I crushed everything up to that point

and I thought my polygraph and background was pretty solid. It was solid. But my polygraph from background was pretty solid. But then I got an email saying nope, okay. It was a formal thing. I came up with this head, but it was very vague. It was like, hey, you didn't meet the requirements, etc. Yeah, so it's always interesting to me, because so many guys from special operations community, I mean, they're just aren aren't there many jobs that translate. I mean, there's barely any to what our experience is

and what we can offer. And a lot of guys seem to flock to the federal side of law enforcement or other government agencies and state and local law enforcement agencies. And it seems like it's the same story over and over. These guys get out just like yourself. They apply for some type of law enforcement organization. And then they get the letter that says they're not,

they don't have what they're looking for. Yeah, some bullshit. Which I find really odd. You know, you're a shooting instructor now. You teach tactics and you teach law enforcement. Don't you find that kind of odd that so many guys come out, they apply to law enforcement agencies,

the law enforcement agency tell us some, hey, thanks, but you're not good enough. And then six months later, they're fucking calling you up, wanting you to come and train their top fucking tear guys at that agency to do their job. Don't you find that a little odd? Yeah. It's really odd. It's mind blowing, actually. And I didn't really think about it

so I trained my first group of law enforcement. But you're right. It's unreal to me that they would pass up such my mind's solid individuals that would do good things for their community. Yeah. So, I don't know their agenda on that one, but again, yeah, fast-forward today, I train cops all the time.

But yet, these even state departments say no. Yeah. So, after that, after I got that letter, and I was like internally humiliated and ashamed because I was like a huge blow to my ego. I didn't tell anybody at first. I was at my dad's and he was standing right there and I was like, I didn't want to tell him but he was like, well, here we go. No go on this. And I was like kind of like damn. Like that what? Because I didn't have any plan. At that time you put all your eggs in one basket and you were going to

work for FBI. I thought you were a shoe when only to find out according to them you're not good enough and I heard you on a podcast also, I think it was right before that happened maybe you they asked you about transition and you were like, yeah, yeah, it's a fucking breeze. And now you've got nothing, no plan, nothing going on. You've been denied, I mean, you're living with your dad. Yeah, it was horrible. And you're a fucking 13 year veteran, Navy SEAL. That was embarrassed.

I mean, because I didn't have anywhere to go. I moved out of my place in Virginia. I left some things there, but I brought the majority of my, you know, I had some stuff here. I just drove across country to spend some time with him. That was my intention. I got the letter saying no go. Then I was there, and my dad's living there.

I was living my dad's 31 years old. Just did almost 13 years service, seal, had everything going for me. And now I'm like, now what? So it was pretty tough, like mentally for me. Mm-hmm. So I was like scrambling. How tough on a scale of one to 10?

Probably one of the hardest things. I had to do it probably 10, 9 to 10, and then I'll weigh up there. As far as mentally. Yeah. But just like ego, just, because I thought I had my shit together. I like to think I still do. But at the time I was like, damn, I never would have thought a million years I'd be like a 31 living in my dad's. I didn't live there very long but I had to live there

because I know where to go. And I had no job. So and I had no idea what the hell I was going to do. So I was living off savings, I had money, but I was living off my savings just from work and stuff like that, from all of the service. But again, me being who I am, I was stressing. Yeah. And again, I applied for another local law enforcement. I don't know why I did that, but I did because I was like, what's the quickest thing I could do here?

I applied for the Orange County Sheriff's. I didn't go through the process. I just didn't even show up. I got invited to do a interview and all that. I just didn't even show up because I was like, fuck that. I just, in my gut, I had a gut feeling but it just wasn't for me. So I just didn't go.

But now I am, or am now. But that little, I would say, two month window from April May and a March, April into May was tough, because that's when I was staying with my dad. Yeah. And I didn't know how much shit, I didn't even know what the hell I was gonna do. So what did that lead to?

That led to fast forward to my business now, but only reason being is I was just there, one day it was like, hey, my dad has some friends, there's some gun owners. He's known forever. No, one's a firefighter, he only just works alongside him. And they wanted to go shoot.

They knew I was in town. I know him too, but so I was like, all right, let's go. Take me to your range. We're now out there with him. Had a blast, shot all their guns, and I and him just teaching him.

There's a couple things here and there, like how to hold it properly because they're all asked up, just teach them. There's a couple things here and there, like how to hold it properly because they're all asked up just the basics. So we had fun, I think literally that night, I came back, because before this, I interviewed a couple of jobs. What other jobs did you interview with? I interviewed for another instructor job.

I worked a security job for like a week and I fucking quit that. And this other instructor job for firearms training. That was another, uh, that end of the day I just didn't like it. And after that range day I went with my friend, my dad and my his friends. I was like, I could do this. I kind of like, I don't know, I just had like this epiphany like slap my face like, I always loved it, enjoyed shooting. I mean, I don't know if you asked me a team guy who doesn't fucking enjoy shooting because that's what we do. You know, we shoot all the damn time. But I really enjoy it. It's a really good stress reliever for me. But, and also like being

a buzz instructor that being a teacher at a mentor, I grew on me too. I like teaching people, do things and watch them grow into better person, etc. New skill set. So that, on top of that experience, it kind of like, hey, I could do, I want to make a business of this. You know, I could do this on my own. I don't need to go work for someone else who's already doing it for my time and effort into that, or some other company. I could focus my 100% of my attention energy on something of my own, which I felt way more comfortable about. Yeah.

I just wait, I don't know, I just, because I also wanted that freedom too. That's part of the reason I got out too. Freedom and Uber, you know, building to do what I want, set my own schedule. Just have a regular life. Have a family. Have a family, yeah, a good relationship. So working for someone else for eight to ten hours a day in an office or wherever, or standing to insecurity.

I was like, no. Yeah, it was no way. I tried it. I tried it for the one of those jobs for a week and I said, I'm out, because I just, and it was actually a pretty good job, but at the end of the day, I was like hell no.

I couldn't do it. So the business idea dawned on me and I just went full force into it. 100% that night literally just made my dad brainstorm because he started his own business too. And he has a successful one. So, he on top of that meant again, fast-forwarded today. Now, he's sitting there mentor me on business too.

Yeah. So, it was kind of funny to see how all the things worked out like that. But then I've ended this company, the company I have now. So I'm in full force with this. So Kennedy defensive shooting is born and it's a brand new company, just a baby right now. I mean, brand new company, just a baby right now. I mean, I think that's what pulls a lot of guys out of the darkest part of the transition, which a lot of times, you know, leaves a suicide addiction, all that kind of stuff. Actually, before, did you deal of stuff that actually before, did you deal with any of that before?

The last year, like, when I was at trade-it, part of the reason why I got out, because, I mean, I was single, no intention. I was like 100% focused on work. And every time I was out drinking all the time when I was home, even on trips, I would be out fucking drinking every weekend. I just saw where I was going, while I was still in like the last when I was home. Even on trips I would be out fucking drinking every weekend.

I just saw where I was going. While I was still in the last year and a half or so in my personal life, I didn't want that to continue so I knew I needed to separate myself. Because I was all I cared about was work, and then when I didn't work, I just was home, party all the time, a drink. Fighting. Fighting.

Yeah, rarely occasionally. I wasn't like a fighter, but I would just go out and booze all the time. Yeah. And then just fucking wake up with hangovers every fucking day, three, four days a week. And I was like, the fuck am I doing? Yeah.

Not getting anywhere, just repetitive. And then rinse repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, every trip. And it just, it took a toll to for sure. And I saw where I was going and where I would go to because if I stayed in, I would just probably continue to do that. Yeah. And just push kind of, I had some friends by just relationships. If I want to family probably wouldn't have happened because I would just care about work because I was always so fucking nervous to be gone. Yeah. I was wanted to be there and be that guy.

I would let everyone else go. I wouldn't even come home for holidays because I was like, I didn't want to leave. Holy shit. That was like, I just want to stay. So do you think that your business kind of jury out of that cycle? It did, I say they gave me a purpose.

Because once I got that bug, you know, don't I mean? I was like all in front site focused on it, pulled me out of that rut. You know, I was still at the time, still living my dad. But I was like, all right, running, got the name, sorry, doing all the back-end stuff. Stab was the website and just kind of just building someone of a business foundation.

So actually get out there and get clients. It's a new addiction. Yeah, it ain't gonna be a new addiction for me. And now it is still addiction, you know. But, I mean a lot of guys, sorry, go ahead. It did bring me out of that hole like you said. Yeah. Before that, I was literally just sitting there.

My dad's house like, totally in my fucking thumbs. Like no purpose, no reason even be there. It's like I'm just sitting here, because I'm a bum. Yeah. It's almost, you know, I see a cycle and this is my own theory. It could be just a bunch of shit. But, you know, what I see, what draws a lot of guys out of that downward spiral, which a lot of times doesn't end well. You know, you get the addiction to a adrenaline being a seal.

You're kind of like just like we talked about. You had over 180 fucking engagements, you know, in less than a year. And you become addicted to that. And then that addiction a lot of times, I believe gets replaced with drug addiction and alcohol, which are also coping mechanisms. And then just for my own personal experience and watching guys like you and other close

friends of mine, the business becomes the new addiction, which pulls you out of the drugs and alcohol in adrenaline. And you're fucking crushing it now. You're already training on Huntington Beach SWAT team, which is incredible. Yeah, that was kind of a surreal experience for me. The city I grew up in now I'm training their SWAT team. Yeah. So, and those things, season officers too, not young. All of them probably had six, seven years on me. Yeah.

What would you say your most challenging thing is in business right now? It's client acquisition. Yeah. getting new clients and just in content creation. It's constantly just developing new ideas for growth. And I always want to be stagnant. I don't want my sole purpose just to do, in my business, just to do private lessons.

Yeah. I want to be a little bit bigger than that. And it can be. Do you have any idea what you'd like it to grow into? I would like to grow into more, in the works of developing some courses, to expand outside of just privates, possibly doing group classes, 10 to 15 people, or in multi-day courses, which I'm developing now with one of my close friends of mine. And then work more with law enforcement too.

I like to work with a lot more law enforcement. Maybe a little bit more heavy on law enforcement, less on the civilian. I got more fulfillment out of training the HP SWAT than I did. You know, it's just, in my mind, people like that, they need to learn the skills that I have to offer. Because they don't get it enough. Yeah. Hands down, any department, SWAT or not,

like, they don't get to be on the gun enough. You're either SWAT or you're not. Or you're not. But that's true. You know, like I train cops on their own dime, they, you know, they come to see me and pay a private lesson with me. Not, they're not getting the department paying for it. They're paying for it out of pocket. So focusing more, maybe I can work with more departments and work with them. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely understandable because turning a law enforcement guy, I mean,

should he might put what you just taught him, or at least has a higher chance of putting what you just taught him into a real world situation like within a couple hours. Exactly. And I'm sure a lot of them probably do. But, well Travis, I know you got a flight to catch. Is there anything else you'd like to cover before we wrap this thing up? Now I think we touched it all. Again, thank you.

For your mentorship, and I test your mentorship and advice to the majority of my success in my business in the beginning and even to this day, really, seriously. So thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for coming. And I don't think, after the experience, you just shared with us,

I don't think you're going to have any fucking problem filling an open enrollment course or finding private lessons or trying and law enforcement in any part of the country. So guys check Travis out on Instagram, what's your handle? You can find me at Travis Kennedy 267 or Kennedy defensive shooting as well. And you're starting a YouTube channel up as well. Yeah, YouTube channel, Kennedy defensive shooting, Facebook and then website as well,

Kennedy defensive shooting.com for all the information. Well, I'll be sending everybody I know over there. So I just want to wish the best of luck and I want to thank you for coming out and I know some of that stuff that best of luck and I want to thank you for coming out and I know some of that stuff that you shared is not fucking easy to do and I just want you to know that me and the audience really appreciate it and thank you for your service. Thank you brother appreciate inviting us. It's been a true pleasure to meet you.

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