Shawn Ryan Show - #213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Make your voice heard by calling your Senator’s office directly to let them know that your public lands are not for sale. Find your Senator's contact information here - https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm Braxton McCoy—veteran, rancher, and public lands advocate—joins us to break down a controversial Senate proposal that could lead to the largest sell-off of public lands in modern U.S. history. Introduced by Senator Mike Lee (R‑UT), the provision initially called for selling 2–3 million acres across 11 Western states, with up to 250 million acres labeled as “eligible” for disposal. Though the Senate parliamentarian recently struck it from the reconciliation bill, Lee plans to reintroduce it in narrower form, targeting BLM lands near growing cities. Braxton explains why this fight matters to hunters, ranchers, local communities, and anyone who cares about public access, habitat, and heritage—and what citizens can do to stop it. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self.https://bruntworkwear.com – USE CODE SRShttps://expressvpn.com/srs https://shawnlikesgold.com https://helixsleep.com/srs https://ketone.com/srs Visit https://ketone.com/srs for 30% OFF your subscription orderhttps://roka.com – USE CODE SRShttps://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://shopify.com/srs Braxton McCoy Links: Website - https://braxtonmccoy.com  X - https://x.com/Braxton_McCoy IG - https://www.instagram.com/braxton.mccoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more at TurboTax.ca slash business tax. Just want to say congratulations to the American citizens. We had a huge win last night. I just got word this morning about it. What am I talking about? I'm talking about certain amount of US politicians, people that we elected, were trying to sell in between

two and three million acres of public land. That's land that's ours, the American citizen. That's my land, that's your land. That's land that Theodore Roosevelt set aside for people like us to enjoy and to do as we please on it. Now what was happening is they wanted to sell between two and three million acres of public land for affordable housing. That would have affected a lot of people.

We got loud about it. I'm way late to this party. But we got loud about it. And I got word last night that we're going to pack this into the big beautiful bill. And it got pushed out. They dropped it. But I don't think this is over. From my understanding, this has been going on for the better part of a decade, 10 years. And so I'm sure it's going to pop up again, even though the majority of the American people that I know, I've seen

poll after poll that says we do not want our land sold. And so I want to say thank you to a couple people that were way ahead of me on this and I just, I just, I have a tremendous amount of respect for people to get loud on certain issues because there's a lot of fear that comes with that. And so I just, I want to say thank you to fear that comes with that. So I just, I want to say thank you to Cameron Haynes, to the guys over at MeatEater, Jocko Willink, Joe Rogan, Senator Tim Sheehy, and most of all, Braxton McCoy, who had the balls to come on my show and talk about this.

You know, I'm thanking them because when you do this, when you go up against and speak for the people and talk about what you believe in that isn't in the government's agenda, you carry a ungodly amount of stress, a tremendous amount of fear. I mean what you're going up against is a corrupt establishment and it's sad. But they pulled it out of the bill. Like I said, it's probably not over. Crazy, right? You know, I hate to say this, but the US Capitol and the majority of DC has turned into the world's most elite, expensive brothel. And they're always

open for business so long as it benefits them, the ones sitting in office. And it's disgusting and I hate what our country has turned into with this. It was never is it benefits them, the ones sitting in office. And it's disgusting. And I hate what our country has turned into with this. It was never supposed to be like this. It's supposed to be, you represent the people that elected you. And time and time again, I don't feel like that's happening.

It's disgusting. We need a third party. I mean, when you speak out, this is why I wanna thank. I mean, when you speak out, this is why I wanna thank these guys. Because when you speak out, you're going up against people who a couple of years ago, before they were elected, probably didn't have much. The majority of them didn't have much.

And time and time again, we see elected officials and after a couple of years, they're millionaires. And after a couple more years they're worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars on a salary that supposedly only pays about $200,000 a year. Now how does that happen? Well that's why I say it's become the most elite, most expensive brothel in the world. Not only that, you're going up against a corrupt government that would potentially target you, put you in prison, have the IRS audit you, make up rumors about you, hire PR firms to

dig into your background and find every little mistake that you've made just to push their agenda so that they can get paid off. And it's disgusting. It is disgusting. We need a third party. You know, I fell into the trap of, oh, it's Republicans versus Democrats. Man, I know we have a lot of differences,

but this is one thing that everybody came together on and looked what happened. We at least postponed it. Like I said, I don't think it's over. We really need to think about putting a third party together because this shit is not working. And I want to leave you with a quote. It might not be exact, but for evil to prevail, all that needs to happen is for good men to do nothing. And so, try to get past the fear, the intimidation, the corruption, and just do what's right man because I've got kids,

And just do what's right man because I've got kids, you've got kids, this is the future of our country. And if people don't speak up, the country's gonna look a lot different sooner than later. We're still releasing the Braxton McCoy interview in Braxton, man. Kudos to you, man, for having the courage to come on my show and educate us on what's going on I know there's a tremendous amount of fear I feel it too man but thank you and thank you to everybody else that I just mentioned Cheers

Braxton McCoy welcome to the show show, man. Thanks for having me, Sean. You ready to blow the doors off this thing? I mean, I guess. I'm overstimulated and wired right now, man. Yeah, good. Ready to go. Yeah, so I found you. I was actually, I saw a tweet from Jaco and I respect a lot of what Jaco has to say.

And he had retweeted one of your tweets, and I was actually, I saw a tweet from Jaco and I respect a lot of what Jaco has to say. And he had retweeted one of your things and he just said, he said, pay attention to this guy. So then I went down the rabbit hole, went through your ex feed, saw you, shouted me out. And I think Tucker and Rogan about the sale of public land, which I knew nothing about. about the sale of public land, which I knew nothing about. So I retweeted it and said, I'll be in touch. And like an hour later, I started getting phone calls and text messages from all these powerful people on not to do it.

And generally that means we're right over the target. So we didn't really text anybody back because I don't like it when people try to influence who I bring and do not bring on the show. That really fucking pisses me off. You know, it's, I thought everybody was about free speech, but guess not. But anyway, so just proved to me I was right over the target. We did have a small conversation with, with Lee's office, who seems like he's the one kind of leading this charge. And Jeremy, he was supposed to, they were supposed to send something, right? Yeah, we were looking for a readout of his, his time with the Senate parliamentarian yesterday. I haven't gotten it yet.

Yeah, we haven't gotten it. Weird. But, or maybe not. But it's weird though, cause I like a lot of the stuff that Lee has to say, but this seems, this seems like somebody is gonna make a lot of money off of national parks and public land.

So you seem to be the guy to talk to. So thanks for coming. Well, thanks for having me. And when I tweeted that, I wasn't saying I'm the guy. I was just saying like, what's fine, the right fucking guy. And then it kind of turned out people seem to think that I am. So that wasn't me being like, put me on or whatever. No, I didn't mean, I didn't mean that.

I just mean, you, you seem to be the one that has the balls to get loud on this. And a lot of people in America now, they don't like to speak up. They don't like to say what's on their mind. They don't like to hold people accountable. Accountable. And I just, I see you doing it and I respect the shit out of that man. Cause I know that takes balls. It's a lot of pressure.

Yeah. And I know you're going through a lot of stress for different reasons, which we'll get into later. But but yeah, just thanks for coming. And thanks for bringing this to our attention. Because like I said, I knew nothing about it. And I enjoy our national parks. So I enjoy our national parks, so... Work boots that are as comfy as sneakers? I didn't think it was possible either until I found Brunt work boots. They're like I'm walking on a cloud right out of the box, and they deliver the protection and durability you need on the job site. The best-selling Marin and Omen work boots from Brunt check every box. They're lightweight, slip and oil resistant, heat resistant, electrical hazard rated, and so much more. Join over 500,000 other Brunt boot wearers

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he's telling the truth when he says National Parks are not on the table. Okay. Sorta. But if you look at a place like Yellowstone National Park, just as an example, because that's what he kept saying, no one's trying to sell Yellowstone. Well, the ethos of the park is to preserve this land for the sake of the animals and the American people, right?

Well, the park is at like 8,000 feet in the mountains. It's below zero for a significant portion of the year. That park itself is actually just summer range for the most part for these animals. So Greater Yellowstone ecosystem is about the size of Ohio and that part he's absolutely trying to sell. So the animals are going to lose their winter range. I guess Yellowstone, he's not going to pave over a geyser, but the animals themselves are going to be cooked if this were to go through.

And for anyone that doubts, he's tried to say that he's only going to sell off this small percentage of public lands. That's kind of the central claim he's only gonna sell off this small percentage of public lands that's kind of the the central claim he's making but know that it always his language between just small amount is in between two and three million acres right I think I think it's actually like 225 million to 285 million if I'm correct yeah that's the way I was reading it too is that it looks like he's trying to set a floor but no real ceiling. So the floor is this must be sold off and then the ceiling is these other 240 million acres are to be evaluated. At least that's what it looks like which is setting the table for a

sell-off and I know we'll talk more about this later, but we have processes in place for getting rid or the disposal of land already. What are those? What do you mean the disposal of land? Well, that's kind of the legal term that they use. It's really like transfer to a municipality or an organization for development and growth, things like that. That's covered under FLIPMA, which is the Federal Land Policy and Management Act, 1976. That thing is there. It kind of, it wrapped up a bunch of other older laws into one new one that set a multiple use mandate in place. And part of that multiple use allows, or part of that act allows for the disposal of lands.

Like if a city needs to grow for some reason, like that's for example, that's how that ground in Las Vegas that they took Trump out of context on. I'm not sure if you saw that, that ground got developed. It would have went through Flippma. So we can do this already. Yeah.

Yeah. With me, it's like, when does this end? Theodore Roosevelt preserved our land for the American people to hunt it, enjoy it, hike it, camp it, whatever outdoor activity you want to do. And he did that because of this exact reason, right? Yes. Capitalists, the elites will buy up all the land and then there will be no public land left.

That's why he did it. And now we're trying to change that. And the other reason I brought John Braxton is because, you know, more and more in the country, it seems like the American people, this just keeps happening more and more over time. I don't give a shit which administration it is. It's, it's the, the American citizen is never heard. All we hear is these fucking politicians and

it's becoming more and more clear. I mean you see polls about all the shit that's going on right now and how against people are against what's happening and nobody, none of these politicians care. Right. Almost none of them. No matter what the issue is. They just keep going against the people. The people that elected them in. And I'm just fed up, man. I am so fed up with this shit. But anyways, let me read you a quick intro. We'll get into the, into the nuts and bolts of this whole thing here pretty soon. Braxton McCoy, a son of Southern Utah, raised roping cattle, hunting elk, and fishing with your grandfather with public lands as the backbone of your life.

A combat veteran who survived a suicide bomber in Iraq rebuilt your life at Walter Reed and now you fight to keep America's public lands from being sold off. Author of The Glass Factory, Writing on the Mountain During Hunting Season. You wrote it on the mountain during hunting season. A guide and advocate leading hunts since 2015 and championing public lands since 2016, declaring not one acre should be lost to privatization. A rancher and a horse trainer in Idaho. A patriot who sees these lands is bought with blood from Lewis and Clark to Teddy Roosevelt And you're calling out anyone even senators who dares to auction them off

and like I said the reason the reason I found you was That that tweet from Jaco that said we need to pay attention to this so I dug in and now here we are And we've done some research on What Lee's doing and some of the other people that are involved that nobody knows about yet I'm sure and so we'll get into all that but but right off the bat I want to talk about your ties to the land and in a little bit of your patriotism what you've done for the country and all that that kind of stuff. So, why does this mean so much to you?

Man, I grew up, we were a poor family. We didn't have a lot. It was common for a lot of people down there. Grew up on a small horse place. My old man trained horses and did electrical work to kind of make ends meet there. My grandpa was a plumber. His dad had been a dairyman and failed at that and ended up having to move to the city. But he was a big time outdoorsman, him and all of his brothers.

Every one of his brothers enlisted as well. And so since birth, the thing that we got to enjoy the most as a family was public ground. You know, we'd go out fishing and just to look at is nice too. One time I think I was about 12, we were up on the mountain and there were some moose down in this pond and my grandma wanted to get footage of it so I got on the back of the four-wheeler and she drove down there and I'm holding on trying to watch and these it was a cow calf and they started chasing us so I've got like this took this video of a cow calf chasing us when I'm like 12 bouncing on the back of this you know so just even little little memories like that, man. My grandpa, he was real good at tying flies.

He's the best fisherman I ever seen. All of his brothers really, but he was a real good fisherman. We'd go down to the cricks and he'd get me set up and say, okay, I'm gonna go, you know, we'll see who catches the first fish and I'd be out there casting away and then he'd go sit down and wait for a bug to land on him and catch and make sure it was the right bug that looked like they were eating and then he'd get his fly box out tie on and he'd start whacking fish I think trying to maybe teach me a lesson that took 40 years to learn

trying to maybe teach me a lesson that took 40 years to learn. But yeah, so it's like it's been my whole life and you know I got family in the cattle industry and a lot of friends you know so a lot of time day working as a kid day working like go out and help move cows around or rope or doctor or whatever you need to do mostly for us it was just helping neighbors and then trying to get horses worked because that was an income source. Do ranchers use public land? Oh, yeah, a ton of them do.

And that's, I was going to say, I always, I get uncomfortable with the word rancher. My buddy and I have a beef operator, a meat selling business. I don't consider myself a rancher. I do cowboy, I guess, a horseman. I'm not, I think in order to be a rancher, it's got to be your full time gig. What makes all your money.

And it's really not that for me, but I do love it. And I love cattle. And as far as ranchers using land, yeah, man. In fact, a lot of small family ranches, which are already struggling, they'll be broken by this. They're running, some of them, not all, but some of them are running like 90-10 deeded to un-deeded acreage. So like 10% of their operation is on deeded acres and 90% is on public ground. Man, you know, I want to move into some of your patriotism too. I mean, you would die for this, you almost did die for this country.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, the funny thing is, is you get, you're getting attacked. I see you've been called a communist. You've been called all kinds of things and you know, you are a Typical American who served your country got blown up by an IED You have nothing to win. You have nothing personally to win for taking a stand against this now on the other side I don't know for a fact But I mean there's a lot to, a lot of money to lose by selling

this off. I mean, what developers are going to develop this land and all this stuff. So and we'll get into all that in a little bit, but it's just, I want to bring that out. Like you personally have nothing to gain, no financial incentive. You're not getting any land. You're not, you don't, I don't, you don't strike me as a person that wants to get famous or, you know, be you're not, you don't, I don't, you don't strike me as a person that wants to get famous or, you know, be, be having Twitter wars.

I mean, none of that. And you're just getting attacked for just protecting American people's interest in public land. And so I want to just, I want you to go through a little bit of your service, if you don't mind to show people, you know, you did fight for this country. Did the people come in after you fight for the country? Isn't that interesting?

Yeah. It's always the way, right? Yeah. Always the way. Man, I, I was, as a kid, I didn't, I hated school, man. I wanted to be outside. I liked reading books. Other than that, I pretty much hated the rest of it.

I liked science stuff, but I didn't really care for school that much. I liked riding bulls and chasing girls and riding dirt bikes and kind of the typical American thing. And then 9-11 happened. And even though we all hated New York City, those are still our people. You know, it's more of a brotherly, piss on you kind of thing. But if somebody else takes a swing, you want to take a swing back. So I enlisted and I ended up over in Ramadi and 05, 06 time frame.

Oh shit. Yeah. The hot time. It was, yeah, it was busy, man. For sure. That, and typical kind of war, tons of guys have way more combat experience than me. You know, a few gunfights here and there, some sniper fire. We crashed a CH-46 one time.

The pilots called it a hard landing, but it felt like a damn crash for me. We were like two minutes off this objective and the 46 those things are like Vietnam War or Korean War or something and it got like an electrical fire or some kind of thing and we ended up back and we made it all the way back to Fahb Ramadi and hit the PLZ that big concrete one there and then of course got right back on a bird and flew back and did the stupid mission So that was kind of a lot of log pack security type bullshit to you know handful of actual PSD stuff, but for the most part they just tasked us out and We're very generalized, you know

EOD needs a lift somewhere someone's in a tick, you know, EOD needs a lift somewhere, someone's in a tick, you know, just kind of that sort of stuff. And then on the 5th of January, we were providing security for this Marine element that was, that was recruiting Iraqis in order to send them over to a different country to be trained up to be police officers. And my understanding as just an absolute idiot on the ground was that they were having a problem because they they were trying to use Shia to police Sunni neighborhoods in Ramadi and that was just not working out. So they said okay well let's recruit

some Sunnis and see if that might be a better gig. So that was kind of the idea and on the third day, so the fifth would have been the fourth day, but on the Sunnys and see if that might be a better gig. So that was kind of the idea. And on the third day, so the fifth would have been the fourth day, but on the third day was it was supposed to be the end. The recruitment drive was supposed to be done and over with, but there were so many people that had showed up that we were out until like midnight. And then we finally had to just send people home. And the catch is there were, there were not even any slots left. We were doing this for show at this point

and everybody knew it, but they were trying, you know, hearts and minds, all that shit. So they said, okay, we got to go out one more day. Well, they had only promised us three peaceful days. And it's Ramadi in the beginning of 06. You could just about guarantee that you're going to have an issue. And the day before either the day, either the day before the day before that, we had watched guys sit at a bus stop and never get on anything.

Just watch us all day. Very lonesome. Yeah. And we passed that up. So we knew what was going on. And then, so on the 5th, that morning we go to S2 and get the brief and the brief is like hey you need to be on the look for V beds because they're gonna attack you with a V bed. And he said alright and I even made

the joke we get in the trucks and I was like well let's go get fucking blown up dude because everybody knew. We get the, this place called the glass factory. And it's just like what you would imagine. It's a factory. You've probably been there and I haven't. Okay. There's so it's just a kind of a, it looks like all the other factories over there, which are not all that different than ours, except for some architectural

differences, but it has this wall around the sort of compound and that wall factories over there, which are not all that different than ours, except for some architectural differences. But it has this wall around the sort of compound and that wall has a big gate to let trucks in and then a man gate to let people in. And we were using the man gate to let the dudes through the Iraqi dudes through and then wand them and then send them in to be go through the recruitment process, jumping jacks and all that fun stuff. I got, got videos of that and well we get there that morning to the man gate dude and there is like a thousand Iraqis lined up at the door already and these people these are not a punctual people so we we called up and we're like, hey, this is a bad, really bad

idea. And they said, basically, Roger, continue mission. You know, like, all right. So I went and talked, I was Bravo team leader at this time. And I went and talked to my first line leader, his name is Johnny. And I was like, John, I don't want to put guys out there. This is stupid. And so he and I decided we would go out with our interpreter. We called him Carlos because we thought he looked like he was from Juarez rather than Iraq. So we go out with Carlos and just start asking questions. And pretty soon this guy, and just the typical stuff, like,

why are you here on time? You know, why'd you get here early? The guys, they'd say, well, I just want a good opportunity at the job or a shake. Claire told me to be here and that is usually the tip off. And so I'm in the middle of talking to this dude and another guy comes up and he's like frantic and he's yelling and I know like 13 words in Arabic or whatever and none of them are like very kind. So I'm trying, I can't tell what he's saying and asking Carlos man, tell me, help me out here. I have no idea idea and he says he sees a bomb and I said okay what

kind of bomb he says a bomb with wires so my brain immediately went to tripwire no he said grenade I'm sorry grenade that's what it was grenade that's how Carlos translated to me anyway and so I'm thinking tripwire so I radio up we had internal comms and then external so I radioed our team and was like hey don't come out here There's a tripwire somewhere. You know, there's like a thousand Iraqis wandering around you can barely keep these people so as They don't come out here. We're gonna try to figure this out and then within what feels like moments a

Semi truck crashes through our concertina wire on the eastern perimeter and then of course everybody lights it up You know, we've told the V bed everyone's thinking that's a big ass V bed, you know So we take this guy gets taken out and now there's Iraqis running all over the place, you know They think they're stuck between literally a rock wall and a gunfight. So they're going can ape shit and we've got this truck and driver to deal with and so now we actually need help and not too long after that Lieutenant Colonel McLaughlin shows up and a couple of dog handlers. So Lieutenant Colonel Mack comes out with his PSD team to start trying to help us get people organized.

And there's a fucking Lieutenant Colonel out there with a bunch of fives and sixes and fours, you know. He's a very, very brave man. And these dog handlers were Marines, and we'd done a few joint stuff with those guys. And they said, hey, do you want us to go get our dog? And Sergeant Can's dog was sleeping on the hood of my truck. I was like, yeah, go get our dog and certain cans dog was sleeping on the hood of my truck I was like, yeah go get that sucker up dude. So he comes out and

Now we're getting these people back in lines and we needed him in like three different lines one Do you have a government ID? Do you have no government ID? Do you have a government ID but you worked for the bath party? Because we can't employ, you know, Bremer made it so we couldn't employ bath people. So we needed to kind of filter them through quickly once they went in. And right as we start to get everything pretty stabilized, I hear, and I'm on the radio actually with my medic, and I hear Bruno start growling.

I remember I just looked up under my K-Pot and he's got this dude's arm in his mouth, this Iraqi dude. And then next thing is just two bright white flashes like boom, boom. And I wake up face down. I feel like I'm not even I don't even know if I was fully conscious, conscious really and face down and I know I'm really fucked up.

And I can see organs and stuff right here, like kind of under me, but my arm, the only thing I could really move very well was my right elbow. And I got myself propped up on my right elbow and was looking and I thought holy shit I got blown in half you know so I my left humerus had been broken but my left hand worked so I was like rubbing this organ through my fingers trying to see if I could feel it and I don't know dude I felt anatomy I

don't know if you can even feel organs like that, right? But I'm sitting here and then I hear Johnny screaming my name just like everybody else, anybody with a McCoy or Mac, whatever, it's just Mac, right? And so I'm hearing Mac Mac. And then next thing I know I can feel like a little weight off of my back and then a little more weight. And then these organs kind of pulled out and I could see the top of my hips. Yeah, I was like, fuck, at least, you know, at least I got hips, right? But I couldn't really see much more.

And then they rolled me over. And when they rolled me over, that's when I knew my legs were totally screwed. They didn't like they were rolling like this you know wobbling and what had happened is I but essentially everything that didn't have armor on it got hit by ball bearings and my right femur was busted in two places my left in three my left tibia my leftur was busted in two places, my left in three, my left tibia, my left hip was broken in two spots, my right hip in one, my radius and ulnar were broken, all the bones in my right hand, my right median nerve was transected right here at my wrist, my left humerus was broken. I had brain injury, busted ribs, broken back. And I was laying there bleeding. And you know, the first thought you have is after seeing stuff,

you think there's just absolutely no fucking way I'm gonna live. You know? So then you start doing doing that stupid shit, like, you know, tell my mother I love her and that kind of stuff. And then my medic gets there and he starts cutting my pants off to try to assess, right? And pretty soon he goes, dude, you're not wearing any underwear, you know? And I was like, fuck you, dude, it's cold. Okay. So we're trying to have as much fun as we can about it. But I think pretty much everybody thought I was going to die, including me. And every time, so your femurs, your, your glutes are so strong that when your femurs break that bad, they contract, they pull together.

So my femurs are like as long as they were wide, which in the end might've saved my life really from bleeding out. But I could see every time I would, my heart would beat water would, or blood and kind of pus and stuff would come out of all these different holes. It was like if you had a water bottle and squeeze it rhythmically. And so they were trying to get that stuff patched up and they pretty.

You know, I think they realized pretty quickly that they just had to get me on a medivac or I wasn't going to make it. And the medivac they had available was a five ton. So they threw me on a litter and then put me on this five ton. And some sort of major in his infinite wisdom had put speed bumps on the road all the way from Ogden Gate to Charlie Med. So, you know, those five tons,

it's like riding on a brick already. So I'm just bouncing back there, rattling. I feel my bones inside. You know, in my book, I think I described it as like a bag of wrenches, you know. And they get me to Charlie Med, and that's where they established, you know, started getting blood transfusions going in my arms. And then they put me on a bird to try to medevac me to a bullod, you know, which is where you want to go. You want to get to an air force base instead of an army one, right.

But I, we got in the air and then I was bleeding out too much. So we had to stop in TQ to quantum and stop there to get more blood. And then again, we had to stop in Fallujah. They had a holy shit. Yeah, and they had a trauma med center there. And so they started, that's where they put the pic line in my neck, I think. So at one point, I had like eight quarts of blood going in but I was developing compartment syndrome in my legs so they're swelling internally and they were doing everything they could to try to save my legs you know so it to

Fallujah they got me in traction splints and I hadn't had any pain meds yet because my blood pressure was so low they couldn't hit me with morphine. So they grabbed my legs and they gave me like a rag to bite on and man the pain was intense enough that I was in and out anyway I think. But I bit down on that and they got my leg on those traction splints and stretched them out and then they took a knife and cut obviously a surgical knife, not like a buck knife or something, but they split me from knee to hip on both sides all the way up and then put wound vaccine to try to peel that swelling and infection and that kind of shit out and then I went from there to blood and then from blood to landstool and then from landstool to Walter Reed

holy shit man yeah it was pretty intense how long are you at Walter Reed the let's see like four three or four months, the Army put together a program at that time called CBHCO, which was like community-based healthcare organization or something like that. One of these Army acronyms. And there were, what was really happening is there were so many dudes that were wounded at the time that they were running out of beds. So they were trying to get guys guys once they were eligible for outpatient care they were trying to get them back to their hometowns for civilian hospitals just to offload you know they said it was because they thought dudes would heal

better and maybe they really did think that but I think it was probably because they were running out of space so I was there for like three months and then I did outpatient in Utah for another year and a half or so, I think something like that. Another few surgeries and rehab like four times a week, you know, physical rehab. And then they retired me in August of I Think it was August of 07. It was 07, but I think August of 07 damn Shit You go through all that to be called a communist. Yeah from politicians nice Yeah, man another sort of classy. I

try to not say this too much because it's such a heated thing but another thing is man I I Volunteer as a sheriff's deputy now. I got in a gunfight last year for my community. I heard that I heard that You're gonna call me a fucking communist, dude The news just doesn't stop between the national debt and the economic uncertainty It's hard to know what to do. But if you look above the noise, you'll see many high net worth individuals and central banks are stockpiling gold. In fact, gold has broken another record, climbing past $3,500 an ounce. I still remember when it was under $2,000 an ounce just a while ago. It's clear too that now is the time to learn more

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Plus receive a free gift with your second shipment. Fun surprises like a free six pack ketone IQ merch and more. These statements and products have not been evaluated by the FDA. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or condition. or prevent any disease or condition? Well, let's get into the history of this. I read something about Lewis and Clark, so give us a history of preservation of land.

When somebody asked me how did we end up with public land, my answer is conquest. War, treaties, purchase. That's how we did it. If you go all the way back to the Articles of Confederation, you can see this idea emerge that the people of the United States who just fought this war to free themselves of a king owned this land. Now there were, so at the time Georgia, let's see Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, Connecticut, Massachusetts, those states had made claims on land that went all the way to the Mississippi River. So that means that South Carolina, Maryland,

places like that are now landlocked. So they're debating these issues trying to put together a government, you know, while we're winning this war over here, and those seven states who are landlocked were saying, hey, wait a minute, this is our blood and treasure on the line too. You don't get to just claim all of this extra territory and lock us out of the potential for growth and development and all of that. So the agreement they come to

is that we will design state borders and put the rest that will seed these other states, colonies at the time, will seed that land to the federal government in the public trust for the betterment of this nation moving forward. So that concession was made at the birth of this nation. So that's the first war. Then you go from there to stuff like the Louisiana purchase. You know, I don't know if you heard, but Napoleon was fighting a whole bunch of people over there,

needed some money, and he finally said, you know what, how about I just sell you this whole thing for $15 million, so we buy that. And then you've got other pieces like Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the War of 1812, which eventually ended up with land being ceded to us, the whole 49th parallel stuff from the British government and both Spanish and Mexico. So basically war and conquest from that point is how we won this land back. I think that's a really important point to start. So it's not me that's doing the blood and soil thing. It's the people who founded this country. So if you're going to call me a

communist, I guess you're gonna have to go back to the founding generation and call them a communist because that's what they thought. Lewis and Clark, no one really knew what we had bought in this Louisiana purchase. We just knew that it was a good deal and we just doubled the size of our country, which seems like a pretty good thing and they did it for $15 million. It's not like it was a huge expense. Now we were pretty broke at the time, but either way. So Jefferson establishes this core of discovery to put them out on a grand

expedition and he trusts his friend, Merriwether Lewis, with this. Merriwether Lewis then recruits his friend from the army, William Clark. And they put together a team and go out. And what they're looking for is a Northwest Passage. They wanted to find a water source that would run from the Pacific to the Atlantic. So basically kind of in a way, trying to solve the problem that we later solved with railroads. Right.

So these guys go out. In my opinion, it's one of the bravest things anyone's ever done. I mean, you have some people thought there might be freaking dinosaurs out there. They had no idea what was still extant in the wilderness. And so they go out and get on this boat, about 50 people or so. I can't remember the exact number of people. And they start pulling this boat up this Missouri River, having no clue what's going to be at the end of it.

The first winner, they winner in Mandan North Dakota and they're learning they're you know meeting natives and learning some things from making trades with them, scaring the shit out of them with our technology you know stuff like that trying to make peace where they can see who they can make peace with and who they're gonna have to fight as we institute this whole manifest destiny idea. And then the next year they go from there to essentially the the Rocky Mountains. In fact so on the way through there, in what is now modern-day Montana, they find themselves up against their very first grizzly bear. And I just kind of love this story because Merriwether Lewis, if you read

his journals, he's like bragging in there at different points about how he's killed 300 bears. Like, I ain't afraid of no damn bear, you know, all this. And then he's out with a few other guys and they run into this bear that he describes as a white bear you know sometimes Grizz can look kind of silvery backed and there's two and they're watching him and they sneak up to about a hundred yards and him in this private both shoot these two bears and Anyone who's black bear hunted before knows like what you would expect for the most part is that bear to run away Well grizzly is a whole different animal and the Indians have been trying to tell him this

You know, they called it like the great white bear and stuff like be careful with the great white bear Well, they shoot these things and they immediately charge Adam so they you know, these are they're shooting flip-flops. So it's not like they can just empty a mag into them, so they turn and run and It gets to the point where Lewis has to jump into the Missouri River to try to get away from this bear chasing for like 80 yards before it had You know what and it get that one that chased him gets all the way to the river and then Finally starts to tire and doesn't come in the water after him anymore. The other one had ran toward them and then died. It was hit more in the

heart, but then they go back and do like examine these bears and he realizes how big they are. And then he writes about how different this place is and how wild and difficult it's going to be to tame. You know, if the bears are this much harder out here, then what else are we going to find? And the one that he that chased him, he'd hit it through both lungs. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, man. Their grizz are no bullshit for sure. Yeah. So even in my own life, I enjoy,

I like just looking at grizz, but I take them pretty seriously. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of where this stuff starts. And then, you know, of course, eventually they make it back, plenty of adventures along the way and report back to Jefferson like hey this is what we found there is no Northwest Passage but there's all this other stuff and in the meantime that land that had been ceded to the federal government they were using some of it to pay off soldiers and if you were a

private I think you get a hundred acres you know every you were an enlistment you could get like a hundred acres and then if you were an enlistment, you could get like 100 acres. And then if you were, I think, a colonel or above, you could do as many as 500 acres. And they were kind of starting to expand in that way. Another thing Jefferson realized, I think, was one of the most intelligent or wise parts of the idea of Manifest Destiny is he understood that we did not have a military that could conquer the amount of terrain that we had. He knew it was not gonna be possible. So the next best resource is your American people. You

know the average person is pretty brave and durable too. So we're trying to move them out west and establish new states, provinces, towns, villages, all this kind of thing, farms. And that, so that happens for, you know, another little while and then just to kind of give a really broad overview of how the lands ended up in the situations they're in. Then we do things like homestead acts and timber acts and mineral acts and these kinds of things. And we put them in place and say, go out and conquer more. We've got more ground to take care of.

And what happens really quickly with the homestead act type stuff is the further west you get, the more arid and austere the ground gets. So now we've got to go from 160 acre homestead axe to you know 300 or 380 or whatever it was and then all the way up to like sections of land because it takes more land to be able to make a living on. Then we end up again I'm just giving you a broad, then we end up with a timber baron problem. And it wasn't just the robber baron concept. It wasn't just timber barons. There was people that were overgrazing

and things like that too. But to speak straight to the timber baron thing, they were going out and just clear cutting entire forests. You know, they were trying to make money, man. And there was this idea in America, you see it with stuff like the Buffalo too, where this was a totally endless resource that you could never actually extinguish.

So I don't even think they were that terrible with people. I really think that they thought there was going to be another timber section and another, and you know, by the time they got to the end, perhaps this other stuff would have been grown back. I think it's kind of their mindset, but that was not what was happening.

And then enter a guy called Pinoche. And I could be saying his name wrong, but he was friends with Teddy and they're part of the Boone and Crockett club that Teddy put together and his dad was a timber baron and instead of passing that business down to his son to go do the same thing he kind of had this ethos of you're gonna fix the stuff that I screwed up because I overdid this so he sends him off to forestry school and like Florida or not Florida I I'm sorry, France, Germany. And he goes and learns about forestry management. And then he comes back and ends up working with Teddy on the preservation of these forests.

And this is after, of course, the Forest Act was put in place, I think in 1891. So we'd had a couple of presidents who'd made some national forests before Teddy. But Teddy's the one that, Teddy and Pinochch come in and they're the ones that really get after. I think they established like a hundred national force to be preserved. And another thing I love about those two is they both were like men's men. They loved the box. They would go down in the basement and fight each other all the time. And then they go back up and just like work on policy.

It's like a barracks. You know what I mean? So like this guy's not a pussy, you know, and I guess I would say he's not a communist either. And this is kind of where the ethos of preservation and protection starts, in my opinion. And that's again, a broad overview. That's good. That's good. How much US land in acres is public?

Do you know? Yeah, it depends on how. So a thing they like to do is use the term federal land. Now that is a team certain, things certain politicians really like to do is use terms that have a colloquial meaning and a more legalistic meaning So they'll use terms like federal land because that is how it's written in a lot of these acts but when he's

Specifically him and some others when they use it what they're trying to do is get the American mind to conflate military bases, Indian reservations, things like that with public accessible ground so that you kind of think of it all as one thing. And it's really not, uh, what you see this in that red map that everybody likes to post. If you see that one, it's white and then it's just all this red. Well, they've got national parks and Indian reservations and military bases wrapped up in that red map. I think that's the main takeaway there. So I got myself distracted. What was the actual question? How much public land is there in acres in the US BLM's got about 250.

Uh, I think, I think 245 million acres forced is like, uh, one 30 or one 50 national parks is like 90, uh, US sports or USF the fish and wildlife stuff is right around 120. I think all millions, I think. All millions. Millions. Yes. Yeah. And those are the ones, and then you've got monuments, but monuments are wrapped up in forest or, you know, they're

wrapped up in other agencies for the most part. So that's kind of the basic layout of the total acreage. I think it ends up around 600 million. Wow. Yeah. But don't let them conflate military bases. the total acreage, I think it ends up around 600 million. Wow. Yeah. But don't let them conflate military bases and Indian reservations.

Is that what they're converting? Military bases and Indian reservations? No, they can't touch, they know they can't touch Indian reservations. That's what I've thought. But I didn't think they could touch any of it. Be honest with you. Well, we do have processes for that.

This is conspiracy stuff in my brain. This is not anything. This is just an opinion and a thing to think about here though. If a full rollback to use a term or to be made on public lands, I think reservations would sue the government. A fear there is, I don't know if you know this, but we broke a lot of treaties with these people. And if you look at the ruling in Oklahoma, I think it was last year, the year before, the Supreme Court essentially ruled that 40% of Oklahoma now belongs to the tribes.

And now they're trying to work out exactly what to do with that. You know, if you've got a farm there, do you, do you pay your taxes to the tribes now or how does that work? So that's being fought. And I think that you could see, you could see stuff like that happen in the West easily.

Now the conspiracy side would be, well, if you're a developer, that sounds great. A lot of these resses need money. So you're just going to buy it from the res now. Who cares? Right? And again, that's conspiracy. Makes sense. So how long, how long has this been, how long has this push been?

Mike Lee's 2010 campaign was already talking about this kind of stuff. But it's been going for before that. It's not just him. There's lots of other people. So none of this is new. I think they've already lost three lawsuits trying to push for essentially the same thing in different ways. 2010 was at the same.

What I understand is they want to build affordable housing on public land because of the housing crisis. But if I remember right, 2010 land housing was, it's like a fire sale. Especially around Utah. it took a little longer for the 2008, 2009 thing to hit southern Utah, the more rural areas. So yeah, it's never really been about affordable housing, in my opinion.

Also, this is another one of those terms that seems to be being used in kind of a legalistic way and also a colloquial way. My understanding as a lay person is that affordable housing, section eight kind of stuff, comes with other stipulations. There has to be amenities for this stuff, mental health centers, roads, bridges, infrastructure, food. They have to have easy ready access to food. In a sense, the 15 minute walkable city thing applies to that in a sense. And then affordable.

That sounds like, Hey, my kid can't afford a house right now, build a house that he can afford. And that's the part they're trying to sell people on. And I don't see, I don't see how that's actually going to come out of any of this. Where, where is the, like how many different states are involved in this? How many different- In the push?

In the push. It's between two and three million acres. Well, it would affect, for the most part, it would affect the 11 Western states that have the most public land in them. As far as who's pushing it hardest, it's usually Utah. Has been since forever. What do the people think?

The people hate it. I mean, depending on where you source your numbers, this is either a 75-25 issue or a 80-20 issue. I mean, the people hate it. They've never wanted it. Where, what, where is the land located that they want to build all this stuff? I haven't seen an actual map. I've seen a million right outside of the city, or is it far away?

Well, that's the claim that's being made. But we, we already have a process in place for land that's near cities or needs to be developed. So I don't, I would like to see the map. You know, one person could speculate. There's this whole corner crossing fight happening in the West right now. And are you familiar with the concept

of corner crossing? No. As we were developing the West, one of the ways we paid for the railroads was to give them land. What that ended up with is land that looks like an actual checkerboard So there'll be a chunk of land here that is privately owned and then a chunk of public and so on and so forth And it builds this checkerboard looking pattern Some states were trying to block sportsmen and others from

Crossing over the corner between those two chunks of land. And the landowner was saying, essentially, you're violating my airspace by doing that. In some states, I think you own about 200 feet of the air above your house, which is probably a good thing. It should be illegal to fly a drone over my house, right? But that's, that's not really what you're doing. You're crossing, you know, I guess half of your body or something is crossing it. So

that fight is going on. And it looks like sportsmen are going to have a big win on this thing. And I imagine that the landowners who own those sections that have been trying to keep people out are not very happy about this potential win for the common man. So that's one person who, or one group type of people that I would say stands to benefit from this a lot. Then they can just swoop up those sections that are locked in between their land.

Are those the sections that are going up for sale? Supposedly going up for sale? Man, the language seems to have changed so many times that I don't, it's really, it's getting hard to argue with because it keeps, the goal posts keep getting moved. But I would say, yeah, for sure. Another weird thing about that is we've done land swaps with those kinds of people before.

In fact, I know of one in a different state, I can't and don't want to out the person in the group involved in it. But it would probably benefit both sportsmen and this wealthy landowner if this were to happen because their place is giant, it would be cut in half, and now there would just be two contiguous tracks of land because they would swap with each other across the board. It would have to be approved during a public comment period, like public input has to be involved. And if the public says, yeah, let's make that swap,

that's better for us both, then good. So things like this can already happen. Interesting, interesting. better for us both than good. So things like this can already happen. Interesting. Interesting. What are some of the, what, what are the, what is this public land being used for right now? Hunting, fishing, recreating. Uh, I think the word scenic is actually used to, so just for looking at, which

is a value, uh, in my opinion unto itself, uh, hiking, just for looking at, which is a value, in my opinion, unto itself. Hiking, camping, looking at the freaking stars, you know, one of the least light polluted areas in the world. It's a place where the everyday American can go live like a king used to, essentially. Like we're all little petty kings out there, we can kind of do whatever we want. And some people will well cost you money to get on that's okay at national parks or Develop campgrounds, but on undeveloped ground doesn't cost you anything

You can just go out and use it whenever you want. Even if you live in Hoboken, New Jersey, you know So that's what it's being used for and a there is that is some of the stuff that it's being used for. There's a multiple mandate multiple use mandate in place right now under FLIPMA which is the Federal Land and Policy Management Act. What that multiple use mandate guarantees is the preservation of the land and for the use for its own value and also for the use of the American people. So for recreating, grazing, extraction. In the past I would argue from a conservative right-wing perspective that a lot of the managers within these agencies have

stood in the way of parts of that multiple use. You can just imagine someone saying, well I want to bid on this piece of timber, here's our reason why we think this will fit within Flippma and I want to go through that process. And then it gets stalled by bureaucrats within an agency. So I can understand the frustration because I think Flipma gets abused in a lot of ways under like NEPA and others. What is Flipma? Federal land and policy management act.

It has been abused for sure, but it's also been used well. Policy Management Act. It has been abused, for sure. But it's also been used well. I mean, guys are still out grazing. Some of them maybe not as long as they want to, and there's probably strong arguments in some of these cases for being able to graze a little more than they're grazing now. But they're at least out there grazing. Guys are still out there hunting.

They're still out there fishing. They're still out there fishing You know, they're still out there with their family timber extraction mining Oil extraction all of that is still happening on public lands, perhaps not the scale that everybody wants But it is happening Another thing that we have in place that a lot of people don't know about that. I actually think it's terrible in A lot of ways is you can hard mineral claims My understanding is that that old law that goes clear back to like 1871 is still in place

And they think it was the hard minerals act. I can't remember the exact name But it within that act it establishes that anyone Including a foreigner can come here and if they find hard minerals and get a claim approved they can mine it and under that system the federal government gets nothing from it whereas in other extractionary processes they get a percentage so I think on minerals like lithium I think the federal government gets a sub 10% as far as revenue sharing goes. I think the states on those same things get something like 4%. Don't quote me on all these

numbers, but it's something like that. The revenue sharing process. And a lot of these mines are foreign people. I think that's a real problem that should be addressed, but nobody seems to want to address that. You mentioned something about nobody seems to want to address that. You mentioned something about putting refugee camps on the land too. Well, there's a whole shitload of money going into refugee resettlement in the West. If you go to Randalland on Twitter,

you can see, look at these grants yourself. I mean, it's like 10 million, four million, 12 million, all for different refugee resettlement. So when I hear affordable housing, I'm sorry, I guess I'm a conspiracy theorist, but my alarm bells start triggering. I mean, there's something to it, right? I mean, you're getting attacked for speaking out.

I mean, how are you getting attacked? Well, I was coming after you in some ways. I don't know I I was told That they hired a firm to dig into me dig dirt up on me or whatever. Who's they? I was told specifically it was I Don't want to get sued over here, but I was told specifically so allegedly here that it was Michael E's camp that did that. You know whether that's true or not, I don't know. How am I going to confirm that? If you're any good at digging into somebody, you probably don't call them and tell them you're doing it. You know. So that's one way and then I don't know, sounds like you got some calls. Oh yeah, we got some, we got some, we got some calls, that's for sure.

Like I said, that's how I was like, oh man, this is, we must be over the target here because a lot of people are telling me, don't do this interview. Don't do it. But, but like I said, now, then when that happens, I feel like I have to do it, but I feel like it's my duty to do it. And, but what are, what are some of the, I mean, so it's affordable housing, potential refugee camps, section eight housing. What else, anything else? Well, they're trying to say the section eight thing might not be in play but the director of HUD Said as much just a few months ago, you know, he straight-up said we want to build 7 million homes

That's what he said 7 million that was the term and if you look at numbers, man Let's say 7 million and call it three people to a home. So 21 million people. Well, there's 500,000 rough or 600,000 people in Wyoming. Montana's got about a million. Idaho's got like 1.8. Utah's got like 3.5.

So you're gonna put 21 million people in there. I think there's something like around 200,000 voters in Wyoming. How many do you think it would take to flip that state? 50,000? It should, the number sure as hell is not a million. I know that. You put a million people even in a state like Utah, Utah, they voted this last, don't quote me on these hard numbers, but they voted something like 55 45.

And that's what Trump who is a once in a lifetime figure, politician is extremely popular. So how red versus blue are they now with all these, this growth? And these States have already doubled in population since the year 2000. I think Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Arizona have all doubled. Nevada as well have all doubled since like the year 2000. And if you went to an old, an old local, ask them if they

think things have gotten better. I mean, Oh yeah. I hear it all the time, especially after COVID. Every time I go out West, that's, that's what, that's what they're bitching about the California people every single time. Yeah. But Montana, Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, and literally Texas,

everywhere I go, that's what they bitch about. No. Is we're being invaded by California, but, go, that's what they bitch about. You know, is we're being invaded by California. But, um, but man, I want to talk about, actually let's take a quick break. Okay. And then we'll, we'll pick up. Join me for our first ever live stream debrief hosted exclusively on Vigilance Elite Patreon.

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So protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com slash srs. That's exp ress vpn.com slash srs and you can get an extra four months for free expressvpn.com slash srs All right Braxton we're back from the break. I forgot to give you something at the beginning. Everybody gets a gift. I was getting, I was pissing myself off by going through all this. Thank you.

Vigilance lead gummy bears legal in all 50 states. Just candy. Cool. Not gonna feel weird after you. Thank you. A little sugar high. But yeah, so you know, I saw this, everything seems to be like very vague on this.

And like, I just watched this thing on Charlie Kirk's where Lee was on, he called in and they were talking about Map 444, which actually 444 is a big number to me. I think that that's how God speaks to me, is the number 444. And I just saw this clip this morning, but it was saying that the fear mongers are using map 444 but the reality is it's map 443 and You know and and But it doesn't seem like there's any clear Clarification on what exact land now he did say it was adjacent to basically

adjacent to towns or places that are occupied with people and that it made it seem that it was right outside of town. But I mean, my fear is when does this end? Like the minute we do that then it goes on and then it goes on and then we do start getting into the national parks. I want to know what the what the financial incentives are here because the people seem to be clearly speaking up saying no this isn't what we want to do and you

know another thing that came to my mind just on the break is I just interviewed, um, really good guy. His name's Augustus Dorico. He's doing cloud seating, which is another super controversial topic, right? But he had said in his interview that I believe he said within 10 years, all the aquifers out West will be run dry. There's not enough water out there. So where are they going to get the water to bring in

7 million homes when all the aquifers there are going to be depleted within 10 years? I mean, how are they going to, how are they going to do the water? They, I have asked this question multiple times and I don't get an answer. So I guess, let me know if you get one. There isn't water.

I mean, clear back to when John Wesley Powell first surveyed it. They knew there was no water. He was writing back saying, look, man, this is the much of the territory out west is just not suitable for agriculture and things like that. It just isn't too dry. Utah's the second driest state in the Union. I think their average annual precept is around, precipitation rate is around 12 inches. The only one drier than that is Nevada. If you look at the Colorado River system, I think Lake Mead's down 150 feet right now. They're getting to a point from what I've heard.

They're getting to a point where they're now starting to worry about issues with drawing power from the hydroelectric dams. If they keep them, I think in 2026, the Colorado river compact is supposed to have an update. So percentages will change. Uh, percentages are drawn from each will change. Uh, percentages are drawn from each will change. Well, I was at my in-laws a couple of weeks ago and I was watching local news, there was a 20 minute piece about how there's just no, they need to build

homes around Washington County, St. George, that kind of stuff. And there's just no place to do it. We, you know, we don't have room, you know, et cetera, clearly trying to sell this bill to people. It was a realtor and a politician for the most part talking. And then maybe a sob story from some person that probably moved there from California whose kid can't buy a house, which I'm receptive to, man, home prices are ridiculous in the west so i i get that argument but the realtor was saying things like uh if i built if i could get 1500 new homes in this area i could have them sold before they were done being built you know stuff like that obviously real estate

developers would enjoy that realtors would enjoy that but then the water question comes up. And even in this piece, there's just some weird vagaries. They say, oh, we're going to build six new reservoirs down here. Like, okay, well, you can build a dam, but you have to have water to fill the reservoir. I mean, Utah, Utah specifically knows this because when I interviewed Augustus, Utah is one of the states that is, is they're worried that the salt lake is going to dry up. Yeah, right. And so they have him cloud seeding, trying to

bring water into that valley. And, and I can't remember the other states that are working with them on this, but all of the Western states are worried about the water supply. The other thing is, you know, if we're talking about affordable housing, then why aren't we fixing cities like Baltimore, Washington, DC, St. Louis, Chicago, all, I mean, we have affordable housing

all over the place and it's a disaster. It's a disaster. So why are we just putting new sections of it all over the map when we could just fix what we already have? I mean, you see these dilapidated buildings all over the place, redevelop that. Yeah.

You know? And so there has to be some kind of a financial incentive, I would think, for this heart of a push, plus all the pushback I got about having bringing about bringing you on the show. I mean that was like a siren going off my head. And so I wanted to I wanted to ask you about this gentleman we kind of looked into him a little bit but Clint Brown the president of American Path Initiative 501C4. I'd never even heard of a 501C4 before, but apparently it is a organization

that you don't have to report all of the money. So it's a great way to send dark money to whoever you want. And from what I, Jeremy, can you, can you give us a quick lowdown on Clint, on Clint Brown? As you said, he's the president of American path initiative. He's also responsible for helping get cash Battelle through his. FBI director nomination in the Senate. And he was a, he worked in the Senate with Mike Lee for over a year. He worked in the Senate with Mike Lee for over a year

he worked in the Senate with Mike Lee the staff is Mike Lee attached to this president of American Path initiative 501c4 he's a political candidate he can't be attached to a to a 501c4 he's got he's got real ties with this guy though right it'd be a great way he has worked with him in the past. Okay, okay interesting Do you know about this guy I've had Twitter interactions with him that's about all I know It besides what you guys just said I Guess maybe did he make a burner X account to come after you I could never prove that but

It was funny this rando account was only responding to my tweets and It was like call me gay and shit, you know doing like 20 year old broke back mountain jokes that kind of thing Like you think I haven't heard that shit, you know The thing about that, dude, when they do that, it drives me crazy too, because here's some film written by some Skittles person, like however many years ago, that's trying to

denigrate our culture. And then we've absorbed it into our own lexicon. You know, that annoys me. But other than that, that's not new. Well, this account, eventually after I went and looked at it and looked at all the replies, eventually I just said, is this you, Clint? And it replied no, which is a funny way. I think if I was running a burner, I'd probably, and again, I don't know, right? I'm just speculating. I have no idea. I could never prove this, not even necessarily attempting to,

but I would probably say something like, who the fuck is Braxton or whatever? I'd probably be smarter about it than to just write no. And then it deleted itself right after that. Oh the whole account disappeared Yeah, I took screenshots because I thought it was really weird Interesting. We'll put those screenshots up. You got them? Yeah, they're on my phone. Yeah, perfect Did they identified the actually let's put in his LinkedIn As well, we'll put a screenshot of this guy's LinkedIn on there Just so people know I'm not just making shit up out of thin air. But they identified the developers or is BlackRock involved, BlackRock's buying up neighborhoods

at a time. Who are the developers that are going to develop this land if it does get sold? Who would it be sold to? that are going to develop this land if it does get sold. Who would it be sold to? Would it be sold to the developer? These are all questions I'd like answers to. I don't know. I know that when Senator Lee has accused me of lying

to his constituents. I have posted underneath a list of his donors and he said I was being paid. No one's paying me. I mean, I've never been paid for public land advocacy, ever. I mean, people have, organizations have bought flights, you know, but no one's ever paid me for it. I've always done volunteer. In fact, I bought my own flights down here just because I thought it was so important, right? So like, I'm not, I don't mean that anything by that other than to say no one's

paying me. So when he has said that, I have posted underneath, here's a list of your top donors, no one's paying me to lie who's paying you to lie. And no one ever responds. And on that list, you've got stuff like club for club for growth, Microsoft, Blackstone. I can't remember what the others are, but I got those on my phone as well. So Blackstone, from what I understand, is, you know, private equity, equity type stuff that invests in this kind of thing. I think Utah is fourth in the nation for private equity investment in single family homes. So I don't think it'd be too difficult to start drawing lines if a person wanted to or knew how. I mean, I'm an idiot. I don't know how to do this stuff.

I barely, the only reason I do any good on Twitter is it's just an app that is really easy to use. I'm not good at tech man. How did you get involved in this? How did it pop up on your radar? Well, I've been arguing with this guy about this issue This guy's in Senator Lee. Yeah since 20 at least 20 something. You've been in an in his office. Yeah, you've okay Yeah, let's go through this whole timeline of how you got started. There was a, now Senator Lee and I believe Ted Cruz and some other politicians had put together this thing they were calling the public lands initiative, which was a push to seed a push to cede in their terms back these lands back to the states which is a total misnomer because the if you go to the Utah Enablement Act there's

language in there that straight up says here's your seven million acres you never get anymore and I think I sent you guys the screenshots of that so you can put it up it says you're not entitled to any more, basically ever, you know, but in lawyer speak. So it was never their land to begin with. But that's a good way to push this kind of thing on to the public is like if you take somebody who's got a grazing allotment in southern Utah, for example, if he's got an issue with a riparian

area, so he's trying to fix some kind of water on his place and it's BLM, it is much harder to get that done through the BLM than it is on state ground because there are allotments on state ground as well. What does the BLM stand for again? Bureau of Land Management. Okay. And Utah has a thing called a sitla that covers most of their state lands. It's like a student initiative, teachers, some shit. It basically, it covers that that these lands are managed to make money for the Department of Education. Well, if you wanted to fix some stuff on a riparian area on state land, it's way easier,

just as an example. And they'll even let you use your equipment and time and stuff like this as an in-kind contribution so it's cheaper. I can totally understand why a guy who's a rancher down there would prefer state management to be on management on an allotment. But from a political perspective, or from the perspective of the people that are pushing this,

they know that if that land were to be seeded to, not back to, but seeded to the state, there's a provision in the constitution that says that the state constitution, which is true of, this is true of basically every Western state I know of. There's a provision in there that says any land held in our trust has to be managed to essentially highest maximum value.

So it has to make money. Well, I mean, I don't think I need to explain to people a grazing allotment is not going to make as much as a data center or something. So you've just set it up for being sold off by transferring it into state control, unless the constitutions were to be amended. Are you saying they might be putting data centers out there too? It's just speculation. But yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't. Out there too. It's just speculation. But yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't if

AI is the future is everybody's saying, you know, we've got to build our our demonic overlords Just from a Financial perspective. It's got to be cooler to run them in the Mountain West where you've got six months of winter and a lot of wind and I'm sure these you know, I know can't computers get hot fast. I'd imagine giant ass computers get hot even faster and are expensive to cool. So just one reason to move them out there.

Another reason is they'd be very remote and a lot easier to harden. You know, if you think of it from a tactical perspective, if you put a data center in the middle of like six sections of land, you can get this thing out of mortar range or whatever, if that's something you were worried about. So you put that in the middle and then you hire security and you've got a sweet setup for your data center, bringing some H1Bs and put them on there.

And I guess. This is, this is speculation. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Let's not is speculation. Yeah, yeah. Totally. All right. Let's, let's not do speculation. Let's just do, let's just do facts. Okay.

So let's move into even the voting stuff that you mentioned. I understand it, but I don't think that is me personally. I don't think that is a legitimate argument about, you know, well, the state might flip, well, if the state flips, the fucking state flips. Like people live there now and they have a right to vote. But, but my, my concern is this is our land. It's my land, your land. This is American, Americans land that they're able to enjoy.

Like the, Theodore Roosevelt wanted us to, And now it's potentially going up for sale. So let's, let's start with how you, how you got involved. So when this public land initiative was going, I, before I learned more about this, I had been amenable to the idea of transferring to the States. It's, it's a really easy sell if you don't get in the weeds because the guy, of course, local control sounds better. Right. So I thought, yeah, this would be much better for everybody.

Give us our land back, that kind of thing. But when you look into the details of it, that's not like, you're not likely to keep it. And when Teddy and others put this thing together, the idea was that it belonged not just to us, but to those yet in the womb of time to our grandchildren, right? Well, I joined an organization that was supposed to be like a nonpartisan organization and got involved with them doing advocacy stuff. In fact, my wife still bitches at me to this day because I had forgotten about this,

but I guess the day before we got married, I went to a trade show to do advocacy for this stuff. And so she had to go to a trade show for a few hours and she's still pissed about it, eight or 10 years later. So I joined this organization and I get in voted into state leadership. I actually didn't want to be in state leadership.

I just wanted to try to provide the perspective of someone that didn't live in Salt Lake, you know, like a liberal perspective. I wanted to have our voices involved. So I was going to these meetings and, you know, pushing my... What do you mean you got elected into state leadership? The organization has an election process. So they elected me and put me in a Southern Utah chapter board leader or whatever title they had. And again, I didn't even, this is not something I desired in any way.

So that meant I needed to go to this rendezvous in Missoula. So I went up there and attended some of their workshops, hung out at the beer garden, went to the lectures, all that kind of stuff. But at one point there was this ethics panel and it was some very smart people up there on this ethics panel and they were deliberating on the ethics, the difference between morality and legislation and other nerd stuff. And I, when it came question answer time, I got a mic and was just like, I actually don't think you guys understand the difference between morals and laws

at all. And I presented a scenario that was basically if a deer is stuck in a fence, if you shoot it without permission, you're breaking the law. But if you leave this thing whose leg is completely ripped up and is gonna die anyway to suffer, then you've cut against your morality. So there's just a real easy delineation between the two things. And I was saying, you guys are trying to argue that ethics are. Foisted on us by laws.

And I think the exact opposite is true. Laws should reflect our ethics and morals. So after presenting that some people came to me and said, well, you want you to go to DC and lobby, uh, well advocate. I don't even know what the right term is. Okay. I don't want to get anybody in trouble, whatever the hell the right term is either lobby or advocacy. So I went and presented my case to our representatives in DC. Those that I could

get time facetime with which at that time was basically all of them or their high up staff people which is who you really want to talk to anyway for the most part and at one point I'm in Lee's office and I don't want to get it any family in trouble but they one of his staffers ends up because we're arguing about this transfer idea and I was saying for all the reasons I just mentioned I don't think it's a good idea. And they pointed to basically they were calling me an absolutist like they're doing now, which I'll just happily wear at this point. What's an absolutist? That I just want, I don't want them to take any of it now. I don't trust them with that anchor, you know? So they're calling me an absolutist. It's another way of calling me an extremist and others. It's not just me. There's plenty of people that are out there saying this stuff. I mean Cameron Haynes is saying this stuff

He's got a huge platform, you know, it seems like anybody that's big in hunting outdoors fishing They're all They're all beaten to the same drum here. So there's something to it. Totally. It's you've if you've proven yourself untrustworthy Why would I trust you with even an inch right? That's kind of my viewpoint on it. So they get up and they, they got an actual plot map of Utah and they pointed at a parcel and they said, well, what about a parcel like this? Why can't we just have this transferred? And I said, I know the family that runs cattle on that personally, you know, they're a friend of mine.

So you'd be taking food and money out of their pocket if you did this. And I don't, at least with the staff, that didn't go over particularly well. I'm not saying it embarrassed them, but it probably did. You know?

So that was my first interaction with the guy who, by the way, I thought was a pretty decent guy. Otherwise we, we disagree strongly on this one thing, but I never thought he was a bad guy. I mean, I've done interviews like six months ago saying, I think he's a good guy. We just disagree. And I think you're making a huge mistake. But if you're hiring people to look into me, I don't know about the good guy thing anymore you know my opinion starting to and I think he probably still is a good guy. That's just something going on here

so that's kind of where it started and then I eventually I Ended up leaving that organization Because I had begged them not to let this thing become a liberals who hunt organization or else it would be absolutely doomed. And that's what they did. Dude, we want to politicize it. Yeah, I could, you can't, you cannot politicize this issue, especially as a

liberal, because it's the conservatives in Utah that are that want it, you know, to a degree, as far as the politicians go. In fact, at while I was on that trip, one of the guys from that organization, way up in the leadership there, he was we were at a dinner. And he was essentially, but I think he might've even straight up used the term, but he was calling me a baby killer because he used to be with one of these other liberal orgs that goes over to war torn areas.

And so he was doing like the meme, you know, baby killer meme. So that was kind of, at that point I was like, all right, you know, if you guys are this ridiculous, I'm not interested in staying. So then I've just been kind of on my own trying to educate people whenever the subject comes up. Are there any politicians that are against the transfer? Yeah, Ryan Zinke.

Ryan Zinke has been great. He's a SEAL. He was, he's a SEAL out was, he's a seal out of, he's a Congressman out of Montana, right? He is, yep. And he used to be a secretary of interior under Trump. Did a lot of great things. In fact, I was at the OAR breakfast.

I can't even remember what that acronym is. It's like outdoor something and research. Basically they go over how much money is brought in by hunting, fishing, recreation, that kind of stuff. It's around 860 billion a year. So this is big money. And then Secretary at the time, Secretary Zinke spoke, you know, so I took his hand, but I don't know him never really met him. I don't want to, you know, hello, thank you. That's it, right? But since then, when he got into office, he has since reintroduced this public hands and public lands act that would protect this kind of stuff and add another layer of protection to what is

already there. I mean, he's been fantastic and totally stalwart on this. You know, the, the other thing that I, I know that it sounds like Lee is trying to do is reduce national debt, which I think we all want that, but you know, there are lots of other ways, I think, to reduce that debt. Um, a lot of other ways, but nobody's acting on them. And then, and then, and then the other thing, you know, the other thing, there's the affordable housing, but I mean there's other ways to do that. I mean, I don't know, cut some taxes, put a little money back in everybody's pocket to the American citizen and then maybe they can go buy a house. But, I mean, just one thing, but, you know, what, I mean, do you think that,

is there anything good that could come from this? For the everyday guy? Yeah. No, I don't think so. No, I don't think the everyday guy wins anything. If he was going to, there wouldn't be this many people pissed off at me for saying I don't think so. I think when these arguments come up, the response should be

the everyday man, hunter, fisher, wrangler, man hunter fisher wrangler Recreator, you know that that kind of thing. He only loses he loses access He loses his heritage his birthright all of that the winners are Megacorps donors politicians that kind of thing kind of typical American story The the talk of you've got to allow for growth in these places, all of that, that sort of thing has been argued since the beginning. Well, we just established there's been plenty of growth. The state, you rattled off several states at the beginning that the population has doubled

since 2000. Definitely plenty of growth. Yeah, and we went to the fucking moon while all of this existed, so I don't think it's necessarily holding us back in some serious way. Did we go to the moon? Well, right, I don't know. You know there's that. Well, we at least made a really cool film. Yeah. I think the everyday, the everyday guy only, only loses.

Grazers, hunters, all of them. It's just a loss. And then I would really like to drive home again again the point that this is the only place on earth that's like this. You can't just go do whatever the hell you want in Germany. I like to use them as an example because they have roughly the same percentage of quote unquote public land as we do, roughly 28%.

But in Germany, you can't just go hunt wherever you want or go hike around whenever you want. And sometimes people will push back and say, well, you can't either because you need a license. Like, well, you have to manage the species too. These are two separate arguments, but in theory, yes, I can, you know, I can go in Idaho.

I can go buy a tag over the counter every year. You can't do that in other places. So this is a loss for us and a win for someone else. Take your bet. And then all the animals that will go extinct because you're saying that this is, this is where they go during the winter. Mule deer populations are on decline across the entirety of the West. Have been for years.

Nobody knows exactly why. Most likely it's a combinatorial thing. It's more than just one thing. Certainly loss of winter range is one of those things. Mule deer only live in the western United States and Canada. Like's it. I don't like to pretend to be overly pious because I am a Christian but I suck at it, you know, and I'm not trying to do a false humility thing. I'm really not very, I'm trying to be better but I suck at theory, one of the initial commandments is to be a steward of creation. So killing off a species, especially one as iconic as a mule deer, I view as a sin, an actual sin. And that's probably what would happen. The only state I know of that's heard has reached stasis. Now it's down from 1 million to about 400,000 animals, last I read,

is Wyoming. And one of the things they did, I think Eastman's worked with the head biologist of mule deer there. One of the things they did was identify some tracks of land that were used as a migratory route. A couple of ridges and those ridges had fences on them because they were privately owned and they camped with some money, bought those ridges. This is my understanding. They bought those ridges out and then removed the fences and now their herd has reached stasis. You know, some of these animals travel a hundred miles. You know, people are worried about land preservation all over the country too. I mean, just for example, here in Tennessee, I told you since COVID, this has been, it's overdeveloping. There's piles of people jumping in here.

And now just in this state, there is the Tennessee State Land Trust where you can put your property into a trust and to preserve it so that it can never be overdeveloped. And like I said, people all over the country are starting to worry more and more about overdevelopment and what's gonna happen to our forests and our rivers and our creeks and our conservation, and so, man, you've been on this for 10 years. Yeah, I mean, long, yes, as far as talking to people about it, anyone who would listen. But I remember being in Iraq, I wrote about it in my book, however long ago I wrote that

freaking book, but we were, I can't remember if we were on an OP or we were in, you know, Hooch, whichever it was. I think we were on an OP. We were talking about what do you miss back in the world, you know, that whichever it was, I think we were on an OP. We were talking about what do you miss back in the world? You know, that kind of thing. And I was talking about the family. And of course, I love my family and everything. But I said the dirt.

And they were. Even my friends kind of shocked, and I mean it, you know, the there's this concept on Twitter that it's not magic dirt is what they say and I understand what they mean when they say that They mean you can't just bring anyone on earth here and then magically they're an American just because they touch the dirt, right? But it is magic dirt. It's magic because of us our history or heritage The people that made this place it is magic dirt. So not in that other sense, but in this sense, it is. And I love it, man. So yeah, I've been on it since, you know, when I got wounded, dude, I was 20.

I turned 20 in Iraq. So I was thinking about this stuff back then. Damn. One thing you missed the most was the dirt. Yeah. Braxton, I think that might be the perfect place to end this, but I do want to ask if Senator Lee was sitting right here in my chair across from you right now, what would you say to him?

I'd say what's wrong with the process that we have in place. And it seems like you're trying to ride the popularity of Trump to ram through a pet issue and I'd like an explanation for why that is. Well, we reached out to his office. We'll probably offer him a slot here to give him his, to give him the opportunity to tell his side, even though it's already all over the place I think this is the first time he's spoken on a fairly decent sized platform, correct? I did Jocko's a couple years ago. He did. Yeah cool. But well Braxton I Like I said, I really appreciate you coming down here. I think it's very honorable

you know the fight that you're putting up and you coming down here I think it's very honorable you know the fight that you're putting up and it seems like the majority of America is behind you and not behind the politicians I wish there was more politicians other than Ryan Zinke fighting this but doesn't look like there is according to you well at least on the right-wing side one more thing we just got some news that came in can you read that off, Jeremy? Trump administration to end protections for 58 million acres of national forests Agriculture secretary Brooke Rollins said the Clinton era ruling

Barring road construction and logging was outdated and absurd Well, it goes 58 million acres. Is that what that means? Well, it depends. You have to be careful not to lean into hysteria. The left is good at that. Extraction is covered under FLIPMA and can and should be done responsibly. The old way they used to say it is graze it, log it, or watch it burn. It can and should be done. It just needs to be done responsibly. And so this is another one of these places

where I'd like to see the map, because I don't know who put out the very first map that everybody was reacting to. But if you know the areas, some of the areas that were designated for logging were stuff like juniper trees. And as a lover of mule deer, I hope they cut more of those, but you're not logging junipers. So whoever, I want to know exactly which sections and how it's going to be done. But yeah, you should log. I mean, you have to really.

Some people, we have to really some people. We have wilderness areas now wilderness. So that may not be a bad thing. No, maybe not. That may not, but it says giving up protections. Correct. Yeah. But it all, so it could be bad.

You just have to be able to identify the plots in order to make the decision. Some areas do need to be logged 100%. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I wish you the best of luck and maybe we'll do a follow on if any more develops. Good. Thanks, man. All right. Cheers. Appreciate it. Cheers. We're ready.

Mike Drop. You ready? Let's do it. Former US Navy SEAL, Mike Ridley, uncovering truth with the heroes who live to tell it. I've been shot at, blown up, you name it. You know, you go to the sound of the guns. It's weird, I mean I've had so many near-death experiences. What if the units took a guy out back and shot him?

Bam, you're gone. I would choose to do what Frogmen do. That's what I chose and that's what I would choose again. Mic Drop. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.