Shawn Ryan Show - #230 Keith Stansell - Operation Jacque & Surviving FARC Captivity

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

Keith Stansell is a former U.S. Marine and Northrop Grumman employee who was captured by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) on February 13, 2003, after his surveillance plane crashed in the Colombian jungle during an anti-narcotics mission. Held hostage for 1,967 days alongside contractors Marc Gonsalves and Thomas Howes, Stansell endured harsh conditions in the jungle until their dramatic rescue by the Colombian military on July 2, 2008, during Operation Jaque.  A recipient of the Secretary of Defense Medal for the Defense of Freedom in 2009, he co-authored the bestselling memoir Out of Captivity: Surviving 1967 Days in the Colombian Jungle (2009) with Gonsalves and Howes, detailing their ordeal and resilience.  Father to twin sons born during his captivity, he advocates for awareness of hostage situations and supports military and veteran communities, emphasizing survival, family, and the human spirit in overcoming adversity. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://americanfinancing.net/srsNMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-781-8900, for details about credit costs and terms.https://betterhelp.com/srsThis episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self.https://bruntworkwear.com – USE CODE SRShttps://bunkr.life – USE CODE SRSGo to https://bunkr.life/SRS and use code “SRS” to get your 25% off your family planhttps://calderalab.com/srs – USE CODE SRShttps://shawnlikesgold.comhttps://helixsleep.com/srshttps://patriotmobile.com/srshttps://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRShttps://shopify.com/srshttps://simplisafe.com/srs Keith Stansell Links: Book (Out of Captivity) - https://www.amazon.com/OUT-CAPTIVITY-Surviving-Colombian-Jungle/dp/0061769525 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Keith Stansell. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. I'm very humbled to be here. Man, I've been looking forward to this. I've been really looking forward to this. So thank you for coming. It's an honor to be able to share your story

on what happened down in Columbia in captivity. So I appreciate you being there. I appreciate you and what you do for the community. And that's why I'm here. not to see my face on a show anywhere or promote anything, it's what you do for the community. And I told you some of my friends, and we brought you a couple little trinkets, right, that said, hey, and one of the text messages from a Ranger to you just say, thanks for what you do, just don't stop.

And so, you know, when I got the invite, any effort to support this, I'm all about it. That means a lot. Well deserve, sir. That means a hell of a lot. So everybody starts off with an introduction here. You ready? Yes, sir. Keith Stansell, former United States Marine and Northrop Grumman contractor

who flew anti-drug surveillance missions and Colombia is part of Plan Colombia to intercept FARC communications and support counter-narcotic efforts. Survivor of one of the longest hostage ordeals in modern history and during 1,967 days of captivity in the Colombian jungle after your plane craft, in FARC-controlled territory. Co-author of the book, Out of Captivity, Surviving 1,967 Days in the Columbian Jungle. Two-time air crash survivor received the Secretary of Defense Medal of Defense of Freedom in 2009. Dedicated husband to Rebecca, father to your daughter, Lauren, son Kyle, and twin sons, Keith Jr. and Nick,

who were born after your capture and whom you first held upon your return home. And most importantly, you're a Christian. Thank you, sir. So a couple of things to knock out here. Actually, real quick. So you had twins. Yes. How did you decide which ones kids?

You know what? I didn't. Their mother named them while I was in captivity. They were born while I was in captivity. I didn't see them until they were five years old when I got rescued. So their mother being Latin, the joke was, I just saw what are they going to be named And then when I saw Nicholas and Keith

And it wasn't something You know something crazy wantcho or so you know Like it's a fun you know it's a funny deal And when I was in captivity we heard on the radio What their names were A Colombian major was a buddy of mine that spent 10 years in captivity He goes you got lucky She named him Keith and Nick

Yeah so yeah Damn We'll get into more that we'll definitely get in more of that so a couple things to knock out real quick i've got a patreon account it's a it's a community that we've built since the beginning they're the reason that i get to be here with you today right and um so one of the things that i offer them is they get the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question this is a good one it's from jesse martin after years of freedom and time to heal emotionally and physically if you could go back in time

to any specific moment when you are in captivity to share a message with yourself, what moment would you go back to and what would your message be? Wow, that's a really good question. It is a good question. What would my message to myself be? If I knew that I was getting the message from the future, this two will pass. That would have been it.

I learned one thing in captivity we're bred whether we like it or not as human beings to survive that's the way we were created we don't have a choice I think the survival instinct is stronger in some than others but we don't have a choice so one thing that the three of us always said to each other

my co-pages there Mark and Tom that were captured with me was we're going home one day and I used to tell Mark I'd rather die on a tarmac you know, after a rescue in the United States didn't die here in this jungle. I just wanted to get back home one day.

Obviously, you want to see your family and that's what really gives you the strength to keep going, those ties and all. But for me, I wasn't dying on foreign soil. That was my biggest fear. Damn. It's a good answer. It's a damn good answer. And then to continue on, a lot lighter here.

Everybody gets a gift. Uh-oh. Oh, wow. those are sweet vigilance league gummy bears legal in all 50 states just candy awesome just candy least they're legal right now so they're not from colorado they're from michigan fantastic no thank you very much thank you but keith so i want to do i want to do a life story on you i mean obviously we're really going to focus in on columbia in captivity and what you were doing down there how you got captured all that stuff but i always like to

with where did you grow up? I grew up in a place called Green Meadows, Florida. U.S. 27 and Griffin Road in Broward County right next to the Everglades. My father was a director of a vocational education center. My mother was a guidance counselor at school. And Green Meadows was one of those first developments where people had horses. So you had like an acre and a half or two and a half acres in a middle class ranch home. And my father made a good living, my mom, but we were kind of upper middle class. We weren't well to do. But spent a lot of time, when I say traveling, we had a camper. So my parents would always take a couple trips to camp somewhere, excuse me, summertime, due to this thing. So really up until I was 14, it was Mayberry for me.

I was a nerd, big buck teeth, wasn't very athletic, got picked on a lot, but had good friends. But I liked to fish and camp out around my house all the time, and it was just a great place to live. And I remember my mother had a dinner bell in front of the house. There was an old train station bell that my dad had put on a four-by-four post. Back then, obviously, nobody had, you know, social media and he weren't stuck inside. You know, there was three channels on the TV. You get home from school and you pop smoke and you're outside. So the rule was, we don't care where you're at, but you better be able to hear that bell.

Because my mom had cooked dinner and she'd go outside and ring the door, ring the bell, right? And ding, ding, we get tuned in and we'd, you know, haul ass back to the house. So it was fantastic. And Dillingna sucked as my friends on the weekend, if we're out somewhere, they couldn't find me. They'd ring the damn bell. You come home by, like, you know? And so I, yeah, I have really fond memories. Everybody in their life has tragedies, right?

So mine, the early storm was at 14. My mother came down with lung cancer, and she was gone in six weeks. In six weeks? Six weeks, yeah, in six weeks. So that started a period of instability in my life. Really, I was very angry at the world. And I had just started school at a military academy in Melbourne, Florida called Florida Air Academy. I was going to go into their flight school program there with

Embry-Riddle, and my plan was to go into the military as a pilot. But after her passing, I ended up in five high schools and four years, and it was a lot of, you know, being unstable. My father was an old-school depression air kid. He wasn't Mr. Lovie W. Hey, I love you, yada, yada. Just a serious guy, a good provider, but all of a sudden he had two sons, right? That was a really his group. You know, he was the provider and taught us many things, but my mom was the caretaker of everything. So I moved around to a couple different high schools with family members, and, you know, it really hurt my feelings leaving Florida Air Academy because I already had this plan mapped out. And it changed everything. For my father, too. I remember my

father, he picks me up one day from school. And my school principal, had worked for my father, my dad, I don't know. And this was a few months after my mom had died and my father was drunk. And my father was a normal cocktail in the afternoon, but I'd never seen him get in a car and drive drunk. And I remember we're listening to George Jones, and he's in the seat, and he's pointing at the radio, and she's gone, she's gone. I was so brokenhearted for my father. That's the first time I'd ever seen him cry, the first time I'd ever seen him weak, you know? And, um, you know, we just drove home and I remember he just went in, sat down as a climb and went to sleep. But I'd never seen any behavior, nor did I see it again. But it just,

I was worried. I was worried. He had a few drinks and picked me up, which he would never do. And he, you could just see he was just, he was destroyed, you know. And, um, it, uh, it marked me for a long time. And we had our rough times, too. You know, you're a teenage war. You're coming into puberty, you're going to, I was never good with authority. The older I got, that didn't get any better. But that's the first tragic time in my life is a memory that I think would shape me the way I look at things forever. And so I would say for then on until maybe, hell, in my 20s, even though I was a military, I was bitter from that inside. I didn't realize it until actually really didn't realize how much it affected me until captivity. But my mom was the stabilizer in the

family, right? And it put me on an unstable path. Now, I wasn't robbing banks or, you know, in police cars or anything. I was just an angry kid. And I remember my dad's upset with me because I had been taken out of school and put in a place called Nova University and adult college. I academically was very gifted. But I said, I just don't want to go to class are doing anything anymore. And I thank my salvation, and I hope he's still alive. One day I'm a senior at school, American Senior High School in Miami, Florida, and Sergeant Armando Yearwood walks into our classroom as a recruiter.

And he started giving us some ring court pitch, and I asked him, what are they going to do for me? He said, we're not doing shit for you. What are you going to do for me? You know, very straight, a poor guy. I was like, delayed enlistment right there. We've got to go talk to my dad. I was 17.

I signed a year delayed enlistment until I graduated high school. And that was one of the best decisions I made my life. And I, by far, was no Star Marine. Imagine you go in the Marine Corps, you don't like authority. It's just like, you know, maybe not so well thought out. But the Marine Corps set me on a different path. And like someone who works for you, who went in the Marine Corps, 17 years old, and then became an officer.

and listed a guy first. I went in Parris Island at 17, and my drill instructors gave me a really nice birthday gift at 18 at Paras Island, which was about an hour of workout on the quarter deck until I puked. But even though I was not some star, Marine, I was good at my job in the Marine Corps,

it turned me to a path that would really help me in a long run and guide me. And everything I have today, surviving captivity where I ended up maybe working outside of my pay grade is because I went to Paras Island at 17 years old. I got the Marine Corps to think for everything on that. What did you do in the Marine Corps? So I was an avionics guy. Aircraft, electrician, aircraft avionics. You know, in the Marine Corps when we went there, you do ICT infantry combat trading no matter what you do if you're in the wing or not. So went through there that I went to Millington, Tennessee,

to my aviation basic course and started off in Cherry Point, North Carolina, and I was working on aircraft there. Then I got sent into the OB-10 Bronco World and was out northside California for a few months before I finally got stationed at Marine Corps Air Station New River. So I was at VMO-1 Marine Observation Squadron 1. And the OB-10, for the people to don't know, it's just a twin-engine Ford Air Control Bird. The rear cedar is usually a lieutenant out of the grunts, you know, an infantry officer and the front seat, not even a pilot, and the front cedars is a naval aviator up front. And that mission went away, but that mission of working and the association with OB-10 is what would lead me to the counter-drug operations in Colombia years later.

So I got out after four years and a little bitter again because I was going to re-enlist. And we had a thing called MESEP, Marine commissioning enlisted program. Basically, you apply to MESEP if you can get, you know, approved, you'll get tuition, you go to school, you can get your commission, and then you, you know, we'll own six years of your life afterwards. That was my plan. But then we had legislation that came down, Graham Rubman, there was no promotion, no bonus, no anything. And I was like, well, why am I staying here, right? It wasn't the Marine Corps' fault. It was, you know, D.C. legislation at the time.

But one thing that marked me was one day I was in the hangar, and I was just coming in from the flight line. Then there's this lieutenant standing there that had gone to Florida Air Academy with me. And he sees me. And his call sign was bones, but that was his nickname in school, tall and thin. He said, you go, Stan, so what are you doing? I said, hey, sir, he goes, what's up with this, sir?

shit. I just have my t-shirt on. I go, what are you doing? He was, he was there. He was, I think he was flying, um, he was flying Harriers. And he goes, you fly in Broncos? I'm like, no, bones. I'm not. I'm a Lance corporal. This is about get busted to back to PFC if I don't get my shit scored away. But it really stung me that that time of instability after my mom's death, what I had not taken advantage of. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't embarrassed at all, nothing like that. So when I got out of the Marine Corps, I ended up going into the Georgia National Guard full-time for nine years.

And that was an experience. The Guard is an adventure, to say the least. But learned a lot there about a lot of stuff in the sense that, not necessarily military, but there's that transition in the Guard, It's all, you know, very nepotistic. The full-time guard is an interesting, interesting deal. It is, you know, in the military, we get transferred out, right? Every two, three years, somewhere active due to your moving, you know, a different change of people, change in command.

Well, at a guard facility there, it's nobody ever leaves. You know, you're there full-time. Yeah. So, and I was in a transition in the guard time. when it went from no real mission to all of a sudden active duty army started tasking you with missions and so you got your your summer camp every year you bring in the part-timers and go out in the field and do all that stuff but i'll never forget i'm in the guard just a few months we go to fort stewart get all the part-time people in there you know we got two weeks

out in the field and everything and um my first serge said hey stands let me in favor he said take this Jeep here. And remember the old chiefs with little flat trailers, little small trailers? Yeah. He said, go to the PX

and load this fucker with beer. I'm like, okay. So it was a bunch of rednecks flying CH 54 skycreen helicopters and doing a damn good job of it now, right? Moving stuff for the Army, but they're at Fort Stewart. And then there's a big tent

and we're watching movies and drinking beer and all the movies were not exactly PG-rated in the woods. So some of my buddies in the Marine Corps, like, what's the guard like? I said, it's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. But that ended shortly because we ended up getting Chinooks, getting new aircraft, and then the standards, I would say, picked up.

And there was a change from kind of the old guard to the new guard, a much higher level of professionalism and people coming off active duty, you know, joining that were, you know, kind of tier one folks. Yeah. So it was a totally different guard, and I got to see the transit. But interesting, interesting. Did you, I mean, in your days of the military, did you ever, and being in captivity, did you ever, did you ever go to Seer training by chance?

So we had, the guard had this thing, I'd call Seer Light. You know, the Army would send trainers around and give you your training, but nothing like going to Brad and bragging complete in the course. You know, I'd get a course later on and go out of it. Yeah. And it was, you know, it was interesting to me that when I started working downrange, all this time in uniform, training, all the stuff that we did, and I was an aviation guy, right? But I would never see any hard stuff or hear gunshots until I was a civilian on the dark side. I always laughed at that, you know.

And what got me from the guards of the State Department was when I was in the Marine Corps, there was a program called Nimbus. And it was a drug interdiction mission run out of Homestead Air Force Base when it was still Homestead Air Force Base. And they used our OB-10s to support U.S. Customs and DEA on takedowns. So I got sent down there. It was just a small debt to support stuff. and that's really where my counter-narcotics connection started. And the customs guys had a couple jets down there.

They had no fleer operator. So kind of undercover darkness, I'm flying, doing the fleer with them, and then our OB-10s are down there. And, you know, we were doing some cool stuff. And that later on lead me to getting recruited by the State Department on an OB-10 spray program. You got recruited. Yeah, I had a friend of mine in the State Department.

They were looking for OB-10 Bronco. guys. There's not many of us, right? And so they were out of Patrick Air Force Base and they round the spray program in Colombia. And then there was another interdiction program going on. And so you said, hey, you're an OV10 guy. You want a rear seat for us? And I was brought on to be in a really small group of about 15 people to do interdiction and, you know, just get in at night and chase guys and, you know, it was going to be a blast. So I signed the paperwork and came on, But in the middle, that got shut down. And so my boss from the State Department calls me,

and it was DynCorp was that contract. And he said, hey, Keith, how about you go to Columbia and rear seat OB-10s in Columbia for me? And I was like, okay, you know, I'll do it. So then I wind up downrange in Columbia and we're spraying M-B-I'm sorry, spraying coca with OB-10s that were, you know, had spray booms on them and tanks inside. And I was running the SAR bird in the back, which was basically an OV10 that had no spray equipment on it but still had the FLIR system.

So with the spray package, I'd be behind and overhead with my pilot. Then you'd have a SAR package. There's a couple super Hueys and some ex-folks like you that were riding in case somebody went down. You had to take the pen and train her down and get them out of the jungle. Then our spray package, it'd be anywhere from three to six birds. And we'd spray them with what? Roundup? You're just killing...

Basically Roundup. Cocaine. Yeah. And when I first started, it was as far as you could see. No shit. It was as far as you could see. Yeah. Once you got over the rocks, you know, down in the Andes down south, it was just Coca

everywhere. And what they did to counter that was they broke up the big coca fields into small coca fields. You know, the big fields, we just come across the three, four, five, six birds and just make a long spray run. It was a lot easier. but that again politics you know we'd be spraying and doing a good job and we knew our job that we were doing was too good shut down shut the program down something happened we'd have to stop spraying

because it was having too much effect so too much effect on what on the coca you're stepping on toes there man i mean that's the thing you know you think everybody up in the government there and la casa de nino you know that's the white house of the you think that the that's not the influenced by the coca trade and the money that's there? And then the politics. So one of the spray pilots that I knew used to say, is it yuca in a coca field or is it coca in a yucca field? So they would always put on the news this poor Campesino his yucca was sprayed.

That's bullshit. The Campesino was paid by the gorilla to go plant some yucca plants in the coca field and pretend like that was his food source, and it wasn't. Wow. And it wasn't. So at every, every circle in turn, we were being stopped from being effective. But I flew with a great group of guys, everybody from the maintenance people, the pilots, you know, were just fantastic. What was special about the OB-10?

There was a forward air control bird. So it was heavily armored, reasonably heavily armored, super maneuverable, super maneuverable, and just a really capable aircraft. And I think because it was free also with the State Department to be able to hand that off down there and run it, but it was very effective at the mission. I mean, you want to fly a single-engine crop duster with almost no armor, spraying something, or do you want a high-performance twin-engine turbo prop that's got armor on it, right? what's the survivability that was the deal and you know we actually we actually spread coke on

MBGs didn't work very well because the OV10 at the time was not MBG compatible so you're going across at night across the coca field you just see streaks of light just attracted small arms fire so did you guys take a lot of fire yeah but when I say take a lot of fire

mostly small arms a.k. stuff like that you know there's always a bullet whole here or there, whatever. You know, a couple aircraft we lost, but they weren't OB-10s. You know, I see the Air Force now with this air tractor, single-engine air tractor, they've got it armored up and it's like going to be a close air support. I'm like, man, you're dead in that thing. I don't know who wanted to waste that money, but that thing in a, it better be total air superiority

because anybody in a contested environment, that aircraft is not survival. I don't believe it is. I've seen them down with an AK-47. Now, I didn't have all this armor, but it's slow, and it's got one, you know, it's got one motor on it. And one of my Air Force buddies and I, he retired, we're talking about that the other day. He's a retired at 15 pilot. And he's like, I can't, I wouldn't fly that thing in a contested environment anywhere, you know. But OVette was a great bird.

I really enjoyed it. A lot of fun. It's a lot of fun to be able to rear-seek that aircraft. And it was a really good experience. What is the opt-tempo like down there? Depend upon the spraying. If we were, it would go through cycles. And so if we were on kind of a hard new spray time, you know, it's every day.

You know it's rotation down there, two to three weeks on, 10 days off. You're spraying every single day, every single day. But then politics would shut it down or speed it up. And, you know, we did other things too. I got a mission one time that was kind of interesting to support some Colombians there was a lot of fun

and we went out basically we're using our systems to locate targets for them for them at a time just to record not to actually attack at that second so you got to see some other stuff right but we had some aircraft down there that we're just doing mapping

we'd map coca fields everything would be geolocated then we come back and that would help us direct the spray on them Interesting program. I think my experience with the drug enforcement down there, just take the gloves off. Take the gloves off, and if we're going to fight it, let's fight it. But you can't fight with one hand tie behind your back.

Sounds like every war I've been involved in. Yeah. Every single one of them. Every one. And, you know, half of our pilots weren't military pilots. I remember I used to be M.B.C. qualified to repair. and stuff, right? So I'm in the hangar at Patrick Air Force Base in the State Department, and my boss comes down and he's like, hey, Keith, he goes, what, you're going to, you want

train some pilots tonight? I figure I was just going to give an assimilation class, right? Just hands on. And so I knew they were crop dusters. These guys were from Louisiana. So the sun's going down. I go upstairs in the hangar. They're there. And I'm like, hey, would you fly in the military? Like, military, we've never been in the military. What do you mean? Right, right? So the three guys that were there were fantastic pilots now. I'm not knocking, but I thought I'd go upstairs and, you know, you flew an A-10 or, you know,

I thought that was what was there and it wasn't. And so we're out there, you know, outside of Patrick at night practicing they were low-level on MBGs, kind of do-it-yourself thing. I was like, damn, this had never happened on activity. But the guys were really good. But I used to mess with one of the lead pilots there. He'd say, what can a military pilot do at 120 feet that I can't do? And I said, well, you're running 90 Nazis running 400.

That's what he can do. So there was always a friendly back and forth. We brought in some experienced ex-military guys, fixed-wing guys. And it all worked out. It worked out. It was a group of Americans down there that, you know, although they were contracting, and you saw this in your life after, you know, you got out, they still want to do the job.

Yep. Everybody there wanted to do the job. I didn't fly with a pilot or work with anybody there that didn't want to do the job. Man, that sounds like such a cool mission. I didn't not realize this was State Department mission. Yeah. I thought this was an agency mission. No.

State Department. It was run out of Patrick. No shit. Where were you guys staged out of? La Rondia was one of our San Jose and La Rondie were two of our bases. We were staged out of, and, you know, we had some air tractors there in OB-10s and a mix of mecks from all different services and pilots and people that do a job and do a good job. You know, it was all patriots, right? And, you know, Dying Corps used to get a bad rap about, yeah, you got a bunch of ex-enlisted beer drinking guys down there, partying all over Latin America and doing a counter-drug mission.

Well, yeah, that's what you attract. You're not looking for choir, boys, because you're not getting them. I've had this conversation so many times. But those same guys will do a kick-ass job, and they did. Yeah, yeah. Were you guys, was it specifically Columbia? Were you going into Peru? No, no, there was Columbia.

When I was on that, that was all. We never left Columbia. That would not start until I got on with Salkan reconnaissance systems. Then it was a different mission. Then it was a different mission. But I mean, you know, even sometimes I know you must have been in places who's like, man, this sucks. But if you think about it now, there were some lessons there you were learning,

didn't realize, you know? And I've got some great memories of some really good people there. I've got some really sad memories of one of our guys getting killed by accident with a minigone on his own best friend there on the base, which was really, really sad. you know we had a we had a he he wasn't an endage he was i can't remember if he was from ecuador i think he's ecuador and he was more hughian mechanics great guy and one of his buddies was a retired marine e7 and they were armors or the one e7 was an armor and so at san jose we had a little pad and we had the aircraft there and and um you know not many gun i don't care what it is

if you just turn those barrels, if there's something in there, it's going on, right? So his bet, they were best bud, so the Ecuadorian was standing right in front of the band, and his buddy just turned. We all heard, boom, ran outside, and bullet went in under his right armpits. I remember when it came out here,

just dropped dead like a stone, you know. And it was sad, really sad because it was an accident, and it would become a whole legal thing out. afterwards, but two really close friends. And the American, it was a foreign Marine there, he was stuck on base for months until he cleared. It wasn't on purpose, right? You know, I felt so terrible for him, you know, because he was just crushed. I mean, crushed.

So, you know, it was a reminder, this isn't a joke. You know, these sard birds and, you know, they'd get it on sometimes. There'd be somebody shooting at them and then just giving the guys and, Saw aircraft a chance to get some rust off the mini guns, but yeah, it was just a sad, sad event. Yeah. You know, I mean, for base security, we had a, seen old yellow tugs on a flight line. You've seen them a million times, right? And we had to come up with a base security plan.

So we got a portable power generator that we used to start aircraft with, hooked it to the tug, then got a seat off of a a bass boat and welded a minigun mount on it. So we had power for the mini gun and put ammo racks on the side. And when we passed the base security plan for that. Did you guys, was there a lot of engagements? No, not really. No? Any?

When I was say engagements, it would usually be the gunships if there was reported fire on a pass. They would dive down to engage, but who could you see? One or two guerrillas in the side of a jungle in the coca field? So full-on head-to-head combat, no, no. They didn't want that. Those guys and those helicopters were looking for that. You know, they took it very serious to protect the package. So you'd come back, you'd even know you got hit sometimes.

You know, there'd be one or two or three holes in the aircraft, but there was no full-up, you know, wild west gun fights with that. Let's go into, I want you to. I want you to educate the audience on who the FARC is. Okay. Forces, Armadas, Revolutionalos de Colombia. Fuesasas is forces, armed revolutionary forces of Colombia. So the FARC manifested itself in 1964, same year I was born, and led by a guy, a Campesino called Tito Fio,

which is fixed bullet or fixed shot. And in the late 50s and early 60s, when the whole communist plague was taken over Latin America, they were basically an out derivative of that. And you have to think about Colombia as two different countries at that time. You've got Bogota at 8,800 feet where the wealthy and the political class lived. Then you had the rest of the country at sea level. No real infrastructure in the country to get and drive a truck here. they're mostly dirt. I'm not paint in 1964, right? So you had a basically a Campasino kind of working class, as they called it, you know, maybe the proletariat want to pronounce that

way against the elite class that had the money, right? But then they also owned all the big ranches and property and the countryside. So the FARC came about as a way to maybe, or I would give them legitimacy there, to fight the political class. and the elites for some fairness in the country. Definitely a class system, right? No doubt about it. But over the years, what infiltrated the FARC was the drug trade. So they became, I would say, I hate to use the word victims,

but their revolution, you know, like any communist revolution is all a bunch of bullshit, right? You just, you trade one ruling class for another, right? And it really, really, in the late 70s, when the cocaine trade started, and that became the big money, then it became just a cover for the largest cocaine trafficking network in the world. And that's all the park's about. It's all now, now that kid you've brainwashed is the 14-year-old Campesino to become a gorilla. He believes in the revolution. But there's an interesting thing when I got rescued in 2008.

I saw a newspaper article that came out, and it showed the FARC leadership called the Secretariat, right? This was the brain trust, right, where all their children were. Their kids weren't in the jungle. They were at universities in Europe and Florida. I mean, they, you know, and you've got these guys that are ultra wealthy and running this big cocaine trade. And so you had the Secretariat, then you had the commandantes, and you have different fronts. right around the country that were divvied up. And so it just manifested itself into a type of cancer, I think.

And what was once a revolution that I think they actually believed in. Now, from a certain level below, those worker bees believed in the revolution. But the ones up top, I mean, they were just corrupted with their own money. Yeah. My belief. That's, I think many people support that. Is the FARC still active? Yes.

This is what's sad. So, let me see, seven years ago, we had a peace process. No, nine years ago. So President Rebe, who was a hard line, right wing guy, basically brought the FARC to their knees. Then the president of the fall of him decided to have a peace process, which they'd failed before. So we take the leadership to Cuba, they get fanfare, some of our major politicians go down there, and they negotiated a peace process. And I think, I don't know what the number was,

maybe 20,000 or so. They turned in their arms and they came out of the jungle, all right? But they really didn't do that. Some groups stayed and refused to turn themselves in. The FARC were promised six seats, I think. Now I can be off on this number in the Colombian Congress, called a Kruel. So you take these guys out, you forgive them of crimes against humanity, then you put them in the Congress. Wow. And, you know, this whole peace deal was...

One was us? Gosh, FARC peace deal. This would be 10 years ago, 14 and 15, I think. So I'll never forget. Kerry's going to go down there and talk to them and other people were going to talk to them. And I just saw our politicians going, man you guys know nothing about these guys and this you know it's just kind of like the

Taliban being a B team right you know and um I was I was up in D.C. and I did an interview and I can't remember if it was on CNN or Fox but um one of our senators very famous and he's deceased now and was a P.O.W from Arizona I don't want to disparage him but he was making comments about the park and the peace deal, and I was on CNN, and I shot back at him and said, hey, would you like to debate this? Or could I at least talk to you? I don't know who's briefing you. He's, you know, and he wouldn't do a debate with me or even anything. CNN tried to get us to do it together. But the thing was he was so far out of base and some of the things that Kerry said, I was like, who are you talking to? What's going on? You know, and so it was

disappointing to see that peace process. People that should be in jail for life at a minimum get forgiven, but I get it was for a greater good. Well, now what they call the dissidents fled back to the jungle and restarted the FARC, but now they're splintered. So they're not as powerful as they once were, but they're still there. And now we have an ultra-liberal government that believes in this talk stuff, right? And it just buys them time. And so the FARC dissidentia is what they call it, has really, has grown. You can look up a guy named Mordisco right now as one of them. He's in leadership.

They're backed by popular demand, you know. And so it's just a cycle. I think the peace process gave a lot of FARC members a chance to escape the jungle, some of the young people. But in my capture, there's a guy, we all had nicknames, right, but he was a guy who had us in the jungle personally for long as his name was. Gophis. So when we got captured and he was captured, our government tried to extradite him, but the Colombian government went and play ball. So Gophis was put into jail. He was released under the peace process. And the liberal president down there now wanted to make him a special envoy to the FARC dissidents, right? What do you do? He just went back and kidnapped the Colombian

congresswoman i just went back to his old tricks he was just on the news a few months ago and it was sicken to me to see this guy that was in handcuffs right next to the helicopter after our rescue sitting up like this like this to a you know female congresswoman saying don't come back here again just released and now he's now he's you know else sequester he's he's kidnapping people again What he should have had was a fucking bullet between his eyes. This shit happens all the time. Look at all the people we've released from Gitmo. These are not good people.

You know, I worked... I worked at Northrop Grimmy with an interesting character. Former 82nd Airborne, one star, Harry Axon. God rest his soul, he's buried in Arlington right now. And he made a comment because he was asking me about some of the leadership down there and he was our corporate lead up there for Socom. And I had a picture of him when he went into Panama.

He was sitting behind Norie's desk holding his sword. And I said, Harry, like, what's your opinion? And he just looked at me. He said, you know, Keith, unfortunately, some people just need killing. And it wasn't animosity. It wasn't with anger, but he was just like, these people are just going to do what they're going to do, right? I mean, so what do we do?

I mean, I guess on the right of being human and humane, you want to maybe give them the benefit of it out or whatever it is, right? But some people are just murderers, man, and that's just, they're never going to change. And we have this way of always hoping to negotiate with the unnegotiable. Yeah. Never seemed to learn a lesson. I don't understand it. How strong was, how many people were involved in the FARC at the time?

Do you have any idea? I don't know. We've heard different numbers, right? I think they were probably maybe more than 30,000 strong at the height. So there's a very famous takedown of a post called Me Too. So the Colombian police and soldiers that were in captivity with us, the majority of them were taken from Me Too. Way down south, there was no way for the Columbia. military to really get down there. And they were much weaker. This is before Planned Columbia,

right? They were much weaker then. So a few thousand farks around an outpost, man, and just start killing and capture them. And at one time, in the dispeche, right? In the dispeche, the FARC had over 400 police and soldiers in captivity. Are you serious? Four hundred. Now, imagine this. Imagine this. Let's just say in this, in this, County in Tennessee, you had 400 American men and women in captivity because you were some security force. And the government or the state of Tennessee had given a display, like, you know, it was much bigger than, I think it was the size of Rhode Island.

And on the night, families, American families have to see their own kids and grown men behind fences in their own country as they negotiate. And then we have American CEOs and business people wanting to do business with the FARC and flying down there and visiting them. And it's just a, they just gave them their own state. So what do they do? They just use that to grow stronger. Then they let the, they let the few hundred go of the soldiers and police and they kept the officers and the politicians that they captured. Damn.

So they always wanted the intercambio humanitarian. That's the humanitarian exchange. We want all the FARC you have in prisons for our people. And that's what as Tom, we got captured always said, so we're just hanging meat.

And so they always wanted to dispege to have another humanitarian exchange. But they were now a named terrorist organization. So what was the strategy? You've got to declare us a legitimate military force. Then you have to openly negotiate with us, Eniduspeje, and then we'll exchange prisoners. They were never exchanging anybody.

We were just political currency. Just political currency. And I remember Rumsfeld, I heard it on the radio. They were talking about the three American hostages. And they were, it was a news saying, and it was impressive. conference and Rumsfeld our sect after the time was just holding it right and our our you know our subject came up because we don't negotiate next I was like damn today sucks right you know did I want them to negotiate for us and trade us out yeah of course I did I who doesn't want to

go home but I knew that's a fantasy and if you negotiate and you trade for me then who's next after Keith or Tom or Mark that's what's going to happen you know if you can leverage them. And so, you know, I always, all we wanted, and we stated it on our first proof of life, we wanted to be rescued, but I wanted our guys coming to rescue us, not the Colombians. And I remember, because the whole plan was during a rescue, the first time I hear the heloes, there's a disembark, they're going to, they just start, they did it. You know, in the first Colombian rescue operation, how sad is this, you had a group of political prisoners.

I think there was 20 or so of them in a, basically in a cage in the jungle, hidden in the jungle. So the Colombian military flies over the camp. Flies over the camp. You could see the boots hanging outside the Black Ox. Then they fucking disembarked like a mile away in the jungle. What happens?

They just walk in their name. They kill every single one of them. Not only does the FARC execute them in haul ass, then they send a guy back to shoot everybody in the head again. One of those guys survived. He was a, like you could call him like a state legislator, it wasn't a national. And he survived by hiding out of the dead bodies of his friends.

Shit. And he told the story. What kind of, so do you want to rescue you? from that group. You heard that while you were in captivity, that's seven. That happened, yeah. And what they were, they were a group of municipal legislators.

The FARC dressed up like police, driving to a little town, right, run into the little courthouse where they're having them and say, hey, outside, you're at risk, get them on a school bus, start driving on the countryside, say, oh, by the way, we're not police. we're farc how about that damn damn well keith let's take a quick break yeah when we come back i want to talk as descriptive as you can about the night you went down oh yeah and then we'll go through the next five years and i will say one thing they did come in to execute us one night but the order got pulled off and we were this close i mean they were right there holy shit that was into that It went from terror to anger.

It was so deep into it. And, I mean, if you only say it now, before we break real quick or not? Let's do it. So, being a crew chief for a long time, right, and Chinooks and cranes or whatever, I can just feel a helicopter from a long way. You get used to it, right?

Everybody's like that. So the biggest fear we had, and this would affect me, and freedom afterwards. But the biggest fear we had was a disembark at night that wasn't done right. So Condoleezza Rice, when she was Secretary of State, was visiting Columbia. And she made a very poignant statement. It was on the radio. Plan Colombia, we're going to have government presence everywhere.

And she was right. That's what they needed. She's 100% correct. But while they were down there, we noticed a lot of air active. but it'd be way off. So we just figured it was just more aircraft mobilized people. So one night, this, we hear these two Blackhawks, then it breaks into one, and it starts circling the camp.

But a giant, giant circle. We did not know and not find out until later that they didn't have our camp spotted. So there's a couple hundred guerrillas guarding our camp because we had Colombian police and military on one side of the fence, and then the politicians. in us, the Colombian politicians and the three of us. So they come to the gate to kill us.

And they bring the guards. Every guard has one person assigned they're responsible to kill. So there's just pandemonium in our compound. And Mark actually, we had a little escape route plan. Mark was actually, he slipped out under the fence. And everybody's screaming. I sat down because we're in a box like this. And I said, man, they're just going to whack us. and there was a Colombian congressman with him. We had a nickname. We called them Big Cat, you know, whatever. Anyway.

So I was terrified. I'm like, they're just going to shoot the fuck out. I said, I heard the guards talking. Man, is this real? Is this real? The guards were nervous because they knew they were going to shoot us. And so I went from being terrified. But when I say terrified, I mean, I didn't crap in my pants when I was close.

Two, I got angry. And I don't know why. It was not a macho decision. and I'm not saying I was a badass, nothing like that. I got fucking pissed. Because I felt like I was laying there like a rat. And I got up and I walked to the gate in Farnay, who was the evil boss of the guards, I said, you're going to fucking kill us?

You're going to kill us? I said, motherfucker, shoot me like a man. And the congressman, Big Cat, grabbed me. He said, Keith, don't say that, don't say that. I mean, it's total chaos. I said, you shoot me like a fucking man. And I don't know why I said it. It wasn't like I was being a badass Sean or whatever,

but I just went from terror, absolute terror, to just anger. If I could have got my hands on them, I mean, you know. And then the radio goes off and they shut it down. And the Black Hawk went away. But we were this close. And Farne had his radio on, and they're waiting. They're talking back and forth because the macho comadante, who is escaping right now, okay,

is talking him on the radio whether or not to give him the order to kill all of us. because we were the HVT of hostages. I was terrified, man, terrified. Then I just got angry, and I don't know. I wish I could tell you why. There was no training, no macho, no thing. I was just furious that you were going to kill me. How long after you were in there did this happen?

A year and a half. Yeah, a little over a year and a half. What happened to your buddy that slipped through the fence? Because ass finally got back another mark up. I said, man, you almost fucked up. he marched and sung by the heat we didn't know what to do right and he slipped back in tore his t-shirt wear i was like i talk about it now damn yeah keith let's say quick break sir

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That's shon likesgold.com. Com. Performance may vary. You should always consult with your financial and tax professional. All right, Keith, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to get into the night you guys crashed and were held in captivity. But what was the name of the outfit you're running with? As far as, well, it's on your head. South Com reconnaissance systems. Not wild. Underplanned Columbia.

And when I saw your hat and it said SRS at first, just for a second, I wasn't thinking Sean Ryan show because I was thinking back to South Com reconnaissance systems. I said SRS because that's what we were. We were SRF. And so for a second, I'm like, oh no, Sean Ryan Show. I wish I was that switched on, Keith. Otherwise I would have said yes. Oh, my God.

And so when I saw it, how. Just, I don't know what you'd call it, right? But I'm sitting here doing the show with you with basically the same hat that I wore when I got captured. Kind of a little different, right? Well, we got you one. This is a company only. Nobody else has them. Oh, really?

Yep. Well, I won't share it. But small community, but it really is, it kind of buggered me up a little. I said, oh, I said, did he do that for it? Oh, no, it's Sean Lange. You know, so. all right keith let's move into it so what was happening that night the more it was actually very early in the morning it was so we had uh as a as a as a

mission commander i'd get an intel box for the embassy for my mission of targets we'd all meet at the airport usually hour and a half before we'd take off and um confer with the pilots and you know um mark who was new, we had brought Mark into the picture to streamline our collection, right? He was an analyst in Air Force, an Intel analyst, and he also worked with our stuff in Embassy. So he was hired to help us, you know, make a better product, essentially. So he was training to be a mission commander, because the funny thing about our bird was this a Cessna Caird, and everybody knows, you know, 10 place bird or whatever, but we had one Colombian that's a host nation

writer that always flew with us to see what we're doing. People think, oh, the Americans run in Columbia do what they want, no. We had somebody on board that knew what we were doing, was working with us, you know, and we didn't just go somewhere without permission and collect on targets. Up front and breaks my heart, but CW5 retired Tommy Janice, we're here because of Tommy, you know, 30 years, retired Delta. A guy was in unit for. forever. Right seat was Tom House who had never been a military pilot, but he'd done a lot of work in Latin America and these type of missions. And Mark was next to me to the left, number one side of the bird. I was on the right. And the sad, sad thing was Sergeant Alcette's Cruz was up front

on the very first mission. That was his first mission. Young guy, wife, kids, and what's a bigger heartbreaker is he came with his buddy that morning. They thought they both were going to fly. And I said, I can't take two of you. I've only got space for one. He was super excited at his first mission, right? And he'd never come back. Damn. And so it breaks my heart, remembering moments after the crash, the conversation.

It was really bad. But to start off the mission, we get in there, show the target to the chief pilot and left cedar, and then we go over what we're going to do. take off out of Bogota across the rocks, it's a little bit high, and then we'd get down the flatland and go do our mission. So we were going into a fixed base to get fuel. And right before, right before the runway there, some rocks about, you know, we call them small hills, about 35004,000 feet. So we had a combination, I call it shoot down engine failure. We were coming down out of 15,000 feet, we're on oxygen.

And we're in a place where I used to look down and go, if we ever go down here, we're dead. We crossed it every day, but it was just mountain and stuff in no man to land. And I remember Tommy saying 12,000. I had altimeter in the back, but I knew, so we all took our oxygen off. And I hear the birds,

do, no motor. So I said, Tommy, what was that? He goes, that's an engine failure, sir. Cool, calm, collected like nothing's going on. So they start trying to do a restart on the motor. And I hear Tommy tell Tom in the right seat run the numbers. He wanted to know if we, if there'd have been no hills in front of us, no small mountains,

we could have glided in. It would have been a non-event. Tommy had already suffered a similar event off the coast to Columbia a year before. and brought the aircraft back like it was nothing and landed at an airport on the coast. So I tell Mark make the Mayday call. And I remember telling Tommy,

I don't know why I did it, but she's comedy. I said, Tommy, do some of that pilot shit, please. Just, wait, so, Tom, in the right seat, the numbers were not adding up. And Tommy just said, fuck it, which he did the right thing. He looked and saw a valley next to us, and he just broke, and we started circling. And he was just burning off speed. And essentially what he did is he'd burn off airspeed until we actually crashed going uphill to slowly aircraft down.

I cannot tell you, I mean, unbelievable piloting skills. And he was inducted last year. I came up here into the Army Aviation Hall of Fame. well-deserved, I'm here only because of his piloting skills. We should have, we should have be dead right there on that. Damn. So I tell Mark, I said, Mark, make the Mayday call. Mark steps on the foot mic in his voice cracks.

I said, give me the mic. You get the target stuff. So Mark starts organizing what's on there. I start making the Mayday. So our boys in Key West and the boys in NBC, I'm on the SATCOM. Everybody in the world is listening to us, right? And a friend of ours was in the office. that morning in the embassy.

And he gets on and he's upset. All I'm doing is just giving grid coordinates as we go down so they can find us. I told them how many souls were on board. Just the standard stuff that you've trained to do. And I don't think any of us, I know Tommy Janice wasn't, was really scared when we were going down

because we were just focused on securing stuff and Mark's securing stuff in the aircraft. So it just doesn't kill us when we crash in. I remember Sardin Cruz, he couldn't speak English, he's right in front of me. So I explained him as best I could. What was happening? I strapped him in the seat. He was upset.

You could tell he was upset. What we did not know was that there was a column of guerrillas, and they were on the mountainside right under us. They were there waiting for aircraft on approach trying to shoot him down. Shit. We didn't know. We did not know at that moment that our aircraft was getting filled with holes. because we're just, the adrenaline's going right, we're just doing what we have to do.

They're shooting a hell out of us right then. We didn't even know it. Now, did you guys have any type of a quick reactionary force ready to come get you? Yeah, they did. They had, at the base, you know, they had the spray reaction force. They had those guys, but no, we're an Indian country on our own. There was no QRF for us at all.

And I remember Tommy saying, as we're, you know, now I'm looking at jungle side above us, but he just burned off airspeed. And Tom says, he said, you better put it down because about 15 foot in front of the aircraft was about a 400 foot cliff. That's how close we came to the edge of cliff. So Tommy goes, hey, guys, this is going to hurt. Then we hit first, broke off a landing gear, then we dug in. What I remember most is the side of the aircraft just opened up like a, you know, just a can opener. Debris and dirt and everything are coming in. And we come to a stop.

Mark and I are yelling at Tom and Tommy up there. We didn't know they were unconscious. Sergeant Cruz was okay. So behind me is a cargo door. So I said, Mark, you get the gun bag, get the target deck, right? and I'll get the pilots. So Cruz and I jumped out to get to the pilots. And the first thing I saw on the right-hand side,

and I thought Thomas Howes was dead. The whole flap of his forehead was cut open and covering his eye. And he was out of his straps and twisted up in the windshield of the aircraft. So I start pounding on the windscreen. He's not moving. I thought his neck was broken. I said, he's dead. He's fucking dead.

I see Tommy next door, right? start moving so we run around to that side and get the door open and Tommy how do you describe Tommy Janice man 56 probably weighed a buck 60 buck 56 ran six to 10 miles a day had a six pack his vein his vein can be man had his hair all blonde I mean Tommy was but vain in the healthy way. Just Tommy Janice is a character and a half and he's a product of his community. He really, he fits in there. And, uh, we get Tommy out. He stands right there. I said, Tommy. Fuck, man. Thank you. Like, we're, you just saved us, right? He just does like this. Then we hear him gunfire coming at us, right? He just puts his hands to his hair like this.

He goes, how do I look? No way. I swore to God on my life. Then he reaches over and he always flew with polo socks over his danners. He straightened the sock up. He goes, how do I look? He jumped something down. I said, you look fucking awesome.

Holy shit. That's Tom Janus. Damn. Like if you want to write a movie about a guy that flew, who was, you know, a unit guy for years and that was Tom Janus. That's why he's in the Aviation Hall of Fame. It's not by a flipping accident, right? Who else does that shit at that moment?

So Mark gets around and Tom comes up and Tom gets out. Tom's alive. Mark gives me just the gum bag of my M4 and we had our just our bread is, I threw that fucker over the cliff. And Sergeant Cruz was getting mad at me. He's like, shoot, shoot, because there's like 60 or 70 guerrillas come up the hill. I said, fuck, no, we're not shooting. We ain't dying today.

We're not dying here. And we can't, I mean, we were. uncovered ground they were coming there's nothing it was over game was over and cruz is crying but not out of like being and i don't want to disrespect him but he was crying out of frustration he wanted to fight and he knew we couldn't you know and he says tell him i'm an american tell him i said we will but they know who you are right and the scary thing was is mark looks latin and at first they thought Mark was a Colombian too you know so I turn around and then there's

a couple guys in our face with AKs in our face did we had hit up in that click yeah oh they were on top we crashed right in the middle of about a hundred some odd guerrillas the guys that were shooting at us we crashed in the middle of them holy shit man so they split us up right and they took mark and tom and I down the hill first and they took sard and Cruz and Tommy in another direction. That's what they do. They split you up so if a QRF or somebody gets there, they don't get all their golden eggs. And I'll never forget I remember this. I looked over and I see Tom, you know, Tom Janice, dragging his right leg like he can't walk. He's got serious seer training. He all knows one thing. That first 30 seconds, 60, whatever. If there's ever time to pop smoke, you're going to escape. He had a plan. I knew. it would end up getting a kill, but there was nothing wrong with his leg.

My theory is this. Tommy was dragging his leg, trying to give distance between a group of guerrillas and just the two guerrillas that were with him, trying to buy himself time. That's what he was doing. Tommy was a different level. And so we never heard the gunshots, but what we would later discover, Tommy, pop smoke, they shot him. and the base of the head and the shoulder.

Crews turned around, they shot them in the chest and threw the hands and into the chest and killed them both. And we wouldn't find that out for months. So they take us down a hill to another side. Hold on. Let's rewind. Okay.

You speak Spanish? See? Mucho. So what were they saying when they... Here's a problem. I didn't speak Spanish then. I learned it in captivity. Shit. show but I'll never

I watch Tommy Tommy once they separate them Tommy's already planning hey I'm I'm out they take us down a hill to like a shack and there's a couple lemon trees and they strip us to search us and they make us

flipping lemonade a big bowl of lemonade for us for everybody to drink and we're sitting there underwear on the side of a hill right and I look up the hill and there's a girl who is leading the group who would later be killed I've never seen a woman as physically capable

as this woman leading a guerrilla group you know if there was ever going to be a woman that I may not people may not want to hear this but if she legitimately wants to pass the ranger course this one will do it there'll be no pushback on her she was a physical freak and have been leading guerrilla columns for years

in early 30s and a killer. She was a fucking killer. We'd find out about it later. But we get dressed, we're finishing up in lemonade, and all of a sudden you can hear, wop, bop, bop, bop, but here come the Hueys. They're coming to the grass site.

And so she took an RPG and shot it through the bottom of the fuselage after they got all the stuff off of it. When the Hueys got there, there was two, but one was like in trail. One got there, starts circling us, right? But they can't shoot the gorilla

because the gorilla graft up around us. As they circle around the head of bushes, they light up, I guess, I don't know if anybody died or not, but they shot at another group of gorilla. So they pushed us on the ground. Then the gunfight starts between the other guerrillas and them. And in the middle of that,

I grab a tree to hold on, Mark and I on the side, we don't want to fall further down, just slide. It wasn't like a cliff or get it hurt. And this gorilla looks at me, he sees my watch. In the middle of that shit,

he steals my watch. I mean, right? So, I've never talked to him, but I'm assuming the lead bird realized we're in the middle of that, so they just had to stop shooting, so they just start circling us. And I don't know how we got separated,

but we were coming out onto a little coffee beanfield on the side. And on the top of the field was a little tin hut that the Camposinos lived in. And I look up and I see Mark and Tom making it to the hut. And they're telling me, go, go, go. So I'm pushing up the hill. And there's a giant, I don't know how big the tree was,

but there's a tree stumped. It must have been about four foot tall, but probably three or four foot around. And all of a sudden, the bird gets back on top of us. Well, the gorilla are like 60 yards behind me and 40 yards ahead of me. There's all these guns pointing on me

and I get down next to the tree trunk because I'm thinking they're just going to shoot me before they let the helicopter, you know, hoist me out. And I remember the gunner looking at me and we're, I mean, he's blowing shit all over me, right? We're this close. He just goes, sorry, man. I nature.

that fucking sucked. Damn. And then that just started a nightmare three-week march into the Amazon Basin. Real quick, before we go farther in, what was the, what were you guys collecting on these targets? Here's what really sucked on that target. God, that's getting worse. We were collecting on coca fields and illicit runways and labs. So each of the bosses had their own area

But the worst boss, Monahoi, who was their military leader We were collecting on his shit And they captured that So not good Yeah And I remember One last pass by the bird And I think Tom and Mark and we're all together

I believe we were We're on our backs And there's a gorilla got his arm around each of us Each, like, we're interlocked and we're in a little coffee bean field with plants are small. The helicopter comes back and hovers over us, but what can they do? Right. Then we made it into the canopy, and it was just a three-week death march. But I'll never forget the girl I said the bad, was a badass.

Her name was Sonia. And I've just never seen a woman in the field this physically impressive. I mean, I've seen about 90% of guys I know could not keep up. with her. We would find out who she was later. And but she was, I think she was the only female column leader, had 75 to 100 people. And, uh, the sun is going down and we all just hunched up together. And you can hear aircraft everywhere, right? They're looking for us. And she goes, you're fucking microswitch, your microswitch. We're all laying there on the ground. She said, what? She goes, you have a microswitch? Like what? She goes, if you have a micro switch, like what? She goes,

if you have a microswitch, I will kill you. So she thought, this was how like dinosaurs they were, right? Primitive. But they're scared of American technology. She thought that we had microswitch, microswitches in our bodies, maybe, you know, injected somewhere

that could hear our conversations and locate us. No shit. And I'll never forget. I grabbed her hand. She had a Casio. like G-shock watch on, I said, that's where your microswitch is at. But they didn't even know what a microswitch was, right? But our ass was on the line for it.

That's quick thinking. And Tom, who spoke fluent Spanish, explained to her, no, we don't have it. But that's not a good thing at that time, right? You know? You just came up with that on the fly. I didn't know what to say. I just said, dope. You got a microswitch right there.

What you do? just kind of calm down and then I watched and I don't want to say anything but you know we had our vests where they're e-per and radio and all this stuff right one of those guys

is carrying our vests and I'm thinking fuck is the ear purr on is it on I didn't say nothing I'm marking if I remember I'm like what what what and then a few minutes later I see him taking apart and taking the batteries out of it so I don't know

was there on or not. They had, I think, did we have a set of MBGs on? I remember. And then it just was a death march. You know, it was just a death march. What do you mean by a death march? So, I'll just say this. Take a 14-year-old kid, put a rucksack on his back.

He's from the mountains anyway. He's not from the flatland. And just put beans and rice and bullets on his back. And all he does for five or six years is just walk the mountains every day. Right? You're not keeping up with them. I'm sorry. I mean, they're just, you're just strong, right?

So it was almost three weeks where they took us to where some members of the secretary were to turn us over to them, where one fresh group would walk us for eight, nine, ten hours, then they'd just turn us over to another group, right? And we just keep daisy chaining like that. And we got separated in the march at times. But I remember it was a point where if we ever physically stop, I just fall down the ground asleep. I've never known exhaustion like that before.

And my particular difficulty was I had a pair of Danor mountain boots on, and they were worried about tracks. In Ecuador, they make these cheap-ass black rubber boots that even the Colombian Army uses. They'll put their combat boots over their neck, but in the wet stuff in the jungle, you put that rubber boot on us worth $10 bucks. And it's the perfect, that's what everybody wears, right?

And it works in the mountains. So they couldn't get me a pair of rubber boots that were big enough. Because they're all small people. I wear a size 12. So they took a pair of rubber boots and they cut the front of the rubber boots off and made me wear those. And I lost eight of my 10 toenails in that three weeks marching like that. Three weeks. Yeah, we never stopped.

We'd stop to eat or something or whatever, but there was, yeah, just never stopped. Yeah. And so I always thought, and Tom did too, were like, are they just going to take us somewhere or try to interrogate us and kill us or something? We didn't know. We didn't know really how primitive they were, you know. And so I was super weak on the march, and I kept getting weaker every day. I didn't know I had internal injuries. And my ribs were separated from the front here, and on my two lower ribs, you can.

take and just stick your fingers through the ribs into my stuff. Mark was really strong on the March. Tom was much stronger to me. I was just going downhill like every hour. I couldn't figure out what was going on. But I knew I had to have something internally screwed up with me. And at one point, like two weeks into the March, I just laid down. I told Sonny, you can shoot me. I can't move. I can't do anything. You shoot me. I can't do shit. And I couldn't. I didn't want to stop, but there was nothing. I wanted to survive. I physically was incapable of doing it. I was broken. Those guys built a stretcher for me and put eight guys on it and they carried me through the damn mountains for almost two days, you know, and I wouldn't know what kind of injuries I had

until I got back, was rescued, and we got, you know, were taken care of. But yeah, I had some pretty severe intestinal and injuries in my ribs. And then for comedy, if you want to hear a light note, right? We're all waiting for Tommy J.A. and Sardin Cruz to show up, right? We didn't know that they had been executed. And so they stop at this one spot, and the three of us lay down, and the way they make a bed is they cut these palm trees, just like a, it's like a, you know, a piece of wood, you know, a stump.

They stack it up about two feet high, then they fill it with dirt and put palm. prawns under. Then they'll put like a little, you know, just a tarp over it, and that's what they sleep and live in it. So we got to an old camp that had been young, but they put Mark and I and Tom in there, and they just lay us down in there. So they get me and take me down to the stream, and they take my clothes off. I mean, they left my underwear on, they take my clothes off. And there's like, you know, a dozen guerrillas just looking at it's like, oh, these are the gringoes, right? Because we're like aliens. And these two young gorilla girls take their clothes off. and just have their bra and panties on

and they start giving me a hand bath in this fucking stream. I'm like, is this like, it was nothing physical, but they're just cleaning me up. We didn't know that we're just like pets to take care of and keep alive until they can trade us, right?

But I can hardly walk. And so I'm thinking, fuck, I bet they're going to take pictures of this. Of them bathing me in the stream. I saw it just my minds, you know, something like that. So I go, I go back up the hill I'm just like, what the hell?

This is surreal, right? We're two weeks in the March. We don't know, you know, this is La La Land. And Tom's grumpy, and he's, I said, Tom. I said, you're an old man. I said, go down the stream. He goes, what? I said, a couple of girls down there,

they're just in their panties and they're under where they're about 18. They're going to give you a hand bath. Shut up, motherfucker. He didn't know, right? So Mark got a bass and came back up. And Tom, the next day is. You see how he looked before the bath? Oh, God.

So the next day, Tom's like, really? I said, yeah, my fucker. But I think, especially with Americans, with our sense of humor and the worst moments, sometimes you just make a joke, right? Yeah. But, yeah, the death march was unbelievable. And, you know, we were going to be turned over to a group that was going to take care of us. Well, I call it taking care of us, right?

Just keep us. alive for the next few years and but that was physically the hardest thing that I ever put myself through ever and it was I remember one night we're in a river it's just I mean just freezing right and you know we're up in the mountains and they finally found a pair of sweatpants put on me a t-shirt and these boots they put Mark and I on a rock in the middle of the river and it's freezing and Mark and our huddled together like this just trying to stay warm all night you know and survive but uh it it it was shocking to me how freely they could move through the jungle without any you know they knew where the military was and where it wasn't

you know and i was thinking shit these guys can get where they want to go to and i'm not talking to eight or ten of us, I'm talking 75 or 80. And it just, it was eye-opening to see how much freedom, or not freedom, I guess, how much of control they were of where they were at. You know, and there's no fine in them. And the thing that was kind of disheartening, I can't speak for Tom or Mark, but I think the same. after a few days, the aircraft were going away.

We knew we were getting deeper and deeper and we weren't being found. So we didn't know. I mean, were they just going to take it? We thought they were going to take us somewhere and interrogate us, right? And they'd just get rid of us. We weren't sure what was going on. We didn't really understand that there were a group of other Colombians that had been ahead of us. At that point, they already had been in five years.

It would be in five and a half more. Damn. You know. What was it like going through the jungle? Was it, were you guys on a... Fuck, I'd boulders every square inch of jungle if I could. The jungle of bites. It's not a friendly place.

Every tree has a thorn. Every, I mean, it's a difficult environment. And it's tough. Because it's like this. Where we were. We were in the mountains. We weren't down, though. It's hot.

It's sticky. You know, it's a miserable place. place. And I'm sure, you know, my wife and I just came back from a trip in Costa Rica. And we rode ATVs up into some nice jungle for like a little lunch and all. And she's, how do you feel? I said, I'm okay. Now, that would have wigged me out a few years ago. But yeah, the jungle's tough, man. And that was really, our opinion was people said, well, why didn't you escape here? Why didn't you escape there? When we got deep into the basin, And the jungle was the real jail.

You know, I mean, it wasn't, what do you do when you're hundreds of miles from nowhere in a basin in the jungle? You have no anything. You don't know where you're at. You don't have a compass, GPS. You don't have squat. Where are you going? Even if you get away, where you're going. So Mark and I came up with an idea that we would never just, it's some, inoperative,

moment, if we got a moment to escape, escape, we would only try something if we knew our chances were good or we were near something or we weren't just going to blow out, you know. And I think it proved to be the right choice. But it's a harsh environment. Well, especially, I mean, even with those guys that had grown up and humping around those mountains in the jungle, I mean, they're going to get you. I think if we could have got enough separation we could

because it's so vast that we could have got away from them but then what are we going to eat right? I mean there were stuff there we could eat but after a while it'd make you sick which direction you're going to go you know I'd read stories

and there were a couple stories of a couple of Colombian prisoners that had escaped and spent the weeks and then finally came back because I couldn't find a way out, you know. And it's not like, you know, I used to teach land nav and NCODP and all that bullshit, right? Well, there's no reference. It's overclassed and cloudy.

It's not like I can look across and find another mountain to hold a reference point, and I could motor to that and then get on top of it and do another one. You can't see. Where you go? Yeah. You're going to walk, you know. And so it was, we knew we were up Fitz Creek, that's for sure. Before this, had you ever thought about what you would do if something like this happened?

In a casual manner. I never believed in the mountainous terrain that we'd survive the crash. And our program was in the midst of transitioning to twin-engine aircraft just to make it safer. But what we were victims of at Southcom Reconnaissance Systems was our own success. We take this simple bird, and then we take two simple birds, caravans, and we're down there 24-7. So competing Intel platforms that come down for 45 days, then go, come back a few months later, that was our backyard. And let's say some other platforms that we collected with, they piped their data back to the states, get everything redacted, then send it back for us to analyze and to use. Well, we were only final secret.

What we collected was you could disseminate it. So when we came back that afternoon, I had a target deck that was probably. and ready to be used, right? It wasn't compartmentalized. It wasn't USIs only, whatever. And so we were a very simple, basic platform that collected real-time intelligence. So our mission creep became mission creep. Damn. And we were also too aggressive. We pushed it. You know, we wanted to be that platform, and we were lobbying. And they were on the way for Twin Engine for King Airs to get there. But we pushed it. to you know um we had an issue that was a mechanical issue and i was supervising an engine breakdown in the states at a little site we had and it was not good so i called tommy on the phone Tommy and i had brought the aircraft back right and Tommy had just faced an engine failure where he came back and we had a canoe i said Tommy what do we do you're the chief pilot he goes man what's sitting in the hangar next to you i said the replacement bird and it's got two motors

he goes let's keep it going and what i wanted to do was shut down the bird that was downrange and do an inspection on the aircraft which doesn't look good you know on the contrary you're supposed to produce for your customer right and uh everybody wanted to keep the program going and uh hindsight's 2020, right? But we should have never been doing what we were doing. You know, should have never been doing. But you got a bunch of guys that are like doing a mission. And I would have paid to do that job. Right? I mean, one day we go to Cali and I get a little target. It's totally different. And there's a warehouse in a warehouse district, but it's not a warehouse. It's a house. And so a really nice house hidden in a warehouse district. So our bird doesn't draw any

attention. It's a hide-in-plane site. And so we have this mission plan. And actually Tommy Janice flew it with me. And we circle. Then we get some really good measurements on this house. And the whole point of getting the measurements on the house was, was there room for a black hawk to set down on top of this? That was the whole purpose, right? Not American in Columbia. So a week later, I'm in the embassy lunchroom, and my boss, Steve walks up and he throws their version, Samana magazine, of time. He said, good job.

And there's our target deck, right? There's the house, and there's, they're disembarking on top of that motherfucker. But then you want it sucked? On the bottom of the damn picture is all of our core. and it's all of our info that's not supposed to be let out public because when it went through the Colombian pipeline someone in the Colombian Intel side sold it to the magazine you know so stupid things you saw um the one of the most heartbreaking things I ever saw was our drug enforcement folks and FBI had informants

with inside the Columbia Intel that would put themselves at risk. So again, outside of Cali, there was this neighborhood in the hills, and it was not nice. You know, it was kind of, it was what you expect of maybe an impoverished area of Latin America. But there was like a meeting group where what they called the Urbanos, which were the urban guerrilla. They get together and play soccer and stuff. So we had a friend of mine that was, I won't say which agency worked for, but he was handling this Intel person. And we had to go out and find their missing person.

Well, it would be two of them. What had happened is they had given him a pickup truck and some intel. And he and his buddy had gone to a party where this stuff was going on. Man, it fucking sucks. Remember the shit? He, uh, while he's at the party, some people go out to the truck, start searching a truck. He left his fucking ID in the truck. So, um, the house was on a hill.

So they shot both of them in the head. And it looked to me like the truck was halfway on fire, but it didn't burn. They flipped the truck at the beginning neighborhood on a hill upside down, and they hung them off the tire, if I remember. I'm trying to remember. I mean, it's just 13, 14 years ago. And so we get there, and the first thing we pick up is 30 yards of blood just going down the hill and pulling up at the bottom of the road there in the neighborhood.

And you're like, and his handler, who was in, he was his, just sucked right you know and then we didn't get that story he didn't once they did investigation and then find out but we're just looking at this guy so i mean there's a real price in the drug war so this is not you know it may not be hey i'm a soft guy kicking doors and we're you know everything's throwing down but there was a continuous price and we might go on the north coast and do operations or go to other places but um people got killed you know And it was the Colombians fan of price on the ground there, you know. So, but to see that guy, I just remember the blood just, I mean, it was like 20 yards maybe down this hill.

And then it was pulled up, you know, and it was just, wow, you know. And so it makes an impact, right? And, you know, I think the thing I would take away from captivity is you see, and in your formal job, you saw it too, what people are really capable of. And it's really disgusting. You know, so when you see stuff like that, that just motivate you to work even harder, you know. But, you know, people pay a deer price on the front line and the drug war. And what bothers me personally, but it's, you know, I don't know who are the large groups in the U.S., right?

We know who controls it down south. And people would always say, you know, X amount of cocaine gets to the States. X amount of cocaine goes here and goes there. And I'm like, yeah? Well, if we can't fucking stop it, how can we count it? right point how do we if we can't stop it how do we count it and i've always wondered who's on the other side who are the big distributors like especially in the coke side of the world but then this was a couple years after our captivity if my memory serves me correct up on the north coast

of columbia they they took down one of the largest distribution networks of cocaine in history there None of that shit went to the states They went to fucking Europe Then it got all Then back from Europe Into the States But I was I would always see these experts

This is where it's going on I'm like well wait a minute We're trying to stop it We can't stop it How can you count it? Were you pulling these numbers out of your ass To justify program needs or money I get it

But how do you stop it Semi submersibles right When they first kind of came out everybody goes oh there's one or two it's a it's a knockoff no there's fucking honors of them right or we catch some bad guys from the sandbox that come in through venezuela and they're tagged with the mexican cartels well why do they want to get into texas they don't want to get into texas to sell drugs they want to get into texas to to hurt people right you know chemical weapons stuff like that that's my theory what they don't give a shit they're not

going to go into El Paso and start a war, but why are they embedded with the cartels? Why, I mean, it's pretty open knowledge. You look at Iran and its proxies, what they do over there on their doorstep. Well, look at their relationship with Venezuela. Really? you know and I saw I can't remember when it was but I remember that women from Black Lives Matter either they went to Venezuela to meet with Maduro and Sean Penn and all those guys you know they're talking about look at this you know Maduro Maduro Maduro you know and then then it's uncovered that they have a plan to distribute cheap drugs into minority neighborhoods and the states to destabilize local political infrastructure.

But you're down there kissing ass to this person because you want five minutes of fame that's destroying your own community. It's part of their, you know, they fight the long game. We don't. Yeah. You see it time and time again with all these terrorist organizations and the alliances that go on behind the scenes. What has come through, look, I was raised a southern conservative

Democrat. They don't exist anymore. My parents were Dixiecrats. They were conservative educators, Democrats. I'm a Republican. I don't see why we should be fighting over right or wrong or if you shoot somebody and kill them. Should you pay for it? This whole discussion and fight politically in our country right now about crime. But I can tell you now that border is where it starts. But nobody goes down to where I worked to see what's at the other end. Or when you're buying cocaine in the States, do you see the death and destruction that causes in other countries? And I'm not talking about guerrilla versus government forces. I'm talking about death and destruction on kids, on small, poor people, on what it does to them. You know,

it's when they say drug war, it's a war. It's a very serious thing. And there's very serious consequences is paid for, you know, but then go down to see where the stuff starts at. Just my observation doing the job, not trying to poke somebody in the eye, say, you should believe this way, you should believe this way, you should this, but, you know, if our border's open, let me ask you a question, do you have a front door in your house? I mean, when your little kids are at home, do you lock your door at night, or do you, I mean, that whole thing for me is personal because I know what goes on the other side of that border. you know and and and i don't know and and i don't know and and i'm not rooting for anybody

to win political favor over border control i'm just saying we need it yeah i think a lot of people share that sentiment yeah let's go back to the camp okay what was it like after the three-week death march they put us we were fairly stable for the first year and a half. They put Mark and Tom and I into what was an old camp. What did it look like? Oh, man. So this old camp was just rotten. So think of like a little pole barn with aluminum roof. Instead of walls, this is where we stayed. This was chain link fence everywhere. Okay. And it's probably 12 foot by 20 foot. What we did not understand in There's two big poles going down at about four foot tall.

That's where you tie your hammock. We didn't realize until we got locked up inside this cage that there had been 20 Colombian police and army hostages in their years before us. We saw the writing on the wall. We saw stuff that they scribbled. And behind one door, and I think this is what caused Mark his inspiration to carve the chest pieces.

Was a chess piece stuck in the door. So they take us to this camp. We meet Manahoui, who's, he was basically there, their bin Laden, right? One of the most wanted people in the world. He was the military leader of the FARC, an absolute assassin. And he's all polite to us, and they fix us empanadas. And they said, hey, we're going to open a camp just for you. And they point to Martine Sumbra.

you can look up Martin Summer he just died of natural causes here a few weeks ago in Columbia he would be a cartoon character terrifying right nails about this long whatever so they load us in these

pickups to land cruisers and take us to this old camp some middle of day we're just driving in a dirt road I mean there's no threat I'm like damn these guys just move where they got a giant camp with a couple hundred gorillas and cars and trucks or trucks everywhere

So we get there, Sumber's sitting on a beach chair and he goes, we have opened all of this for you. We're here to take care of you. I'm like, okay? And I said, well, who's in charge? Summer goes, we're all equal here.

Oh, bullshit, man. We just, right? But we're destroyed. We just want to get some food and get some rest. So the first couple nights, they stick us in this big box. They build a bed off the ground, which when I say a bed was just palms cut like poles, like fence posts, put some palm trees on it, put a tarp over it, and a mosquito net, and you lay in there 24-7.

So they took Mark and Tom out there and left me inside the big box until my was just going to get finished last, right? We were not allowed to speak to each other. And we actually, it was months before we could, we actually lost our voices because we couldn't talk. And so they throw in a couple of magazines that were printed by the FARC, you know, when they were strong. And they're talking about the Connay, the exchange, humanitarian exchange, humanitarian exchange. So the FARC's big hope was, oh, we've never touched Americans before. Now the government's going to negotiate, right? which was I don't think that you know rumsfeld and bush are negotiating that's that wasn't the guys you want to talk to right and then the most right wing president in years with a rebate they're like fuck that so we're trying to educate ourselves on what's going on but we're just we're I mean it's like walking out to the grocery store somebody hits you in the head and you wake up and you're bound and you got in your blindfold and they stake out in the sticks and the world's cut off and you're trying to figure out what's going on

so they come and they give us journals this is a month into it right because we're just sitting there i mean we're counting bugs we're just i mean we're you come from a world that we live in a near that in that box and your mind is just speeding up so i get sick and i'm shitting all over myself i can't stop it and i didn't know if i had malaria not or what i had so tom and marker moved out and they put me back inside this box. It's just chain link around the wall, put me on a black piece of plastic and put a mosquito net over me.

Well, they stop taking me to the bathroom every hour or so because they were tired of doing it. And you use the bathroom, what's called a chonto. They just dig a hole in the ground. It's lengthwise, and you squat over it and kick the dirt and it and keep going. Well, I'm covered, like from my belly button to my knees, I'm covered in my own feces.

And, I mean, it's not insanity, but you start, when I say, you start just figuring out shit to do. Well, I look over, I'm laying there, I look over, and I see like half a dozen roaches just coming to me because they can smell me, right? So I just start killing cockroaches and stacking them up and counting them. I just wait for them to get there. That's all right, motherfucker, here you go, and stack a cockroach. that's what I did probably for a week and they finally came in and hung me upside down they tied ropes around my stomach

and forced me to drink this shit and hung my feet up on the wall and would hang me up there for hours thinking that was going to cure my stomach insanity I mean I don't know what else to say it's just pure insanity what was it what were you drinking I don't know some concoction they came up with And finally, after, I don't know, four or five days, I started feeling better.

But I'm laying there, covered them on feces, just counting roaches, trying to keep my mind busy. You know, and I'm thinking, what do you do? Like, what did a POW do somewhere in Vietnam or somewhere else? We was just in a, you know, a 7 by 7 on a concrete floor. You just start daydreaming. You want to keep this turned on, right? and just start to try and check out. I don't know how many businesses, Mark and I came up with, to run.

You know, we got back to the States. You know, your mind goes into this mode to where it's kind of taking you out. And we would just spend days in their daydreaming. And for some reason, and I don't know why, I had the ability to just sleep like a cat for hours. So I'd just sleep. You know, wake up for when they fed us, and then that'd be it. that food then was lentils and rice, maybe some fried yucca,

Kool-Aid. They loved Kool-Aid. You know, they use sugar water to power themselves when they're marching, right? So there was always sugar, you know, and Kool-Aid. But, yeah, luckily, my stomach got better, and I was able to eat. And then they moved us about five. We heard chainsaws going, right? They were building a more permanent camp.

So they moved us probably maybe a click away. two, three little buildings inside like a horse corral, if it makes sense. And we were locked in there at night. And we could sit, you know, obviously we were undercover with guards with guns, but then we could sit outside of those on their old plastic chair or something during the day. And it was just, we started to kind of get to know the guards. Who was nasty, who wasn't so nasty, because we were a, we were like something out of a movie to them. And these are young guys, you know, men and women, but only the men in gardeners.

So we were like, this is, it was like being in a zoo, but on the other side, you know. Damn. And I remember some would creep up at night, and they would bring us cigarettes, right? The boss would bring us cigarettes like we wanted to smoke, so the guards would come because they wanted to cigarettes, you know, like midnight or whatever, and they might bring us a couple of pieces of yucca, and we'd trade them cigarettes. You know, it was just crazy. And in that camp is where we got bombed. There must have been, and I'm only guessing because of the trails and the activity, but about, I don't know, I'm going to guess 500 yards away, must have been an old camp. Because one

night there were kaffirs jets then the o v tens and they came in and bombed the shit out of the camp and that was pretty scary because you'd hear the you'd hear the shrapler from the bombs just ripping through the leaves and the trees and mark is locked in a box tom's locked in a box i'm locked in a box they weren't letting us out and they're bombing the shit out of the camp right next to us well it wasn't like the u.s with precision got a weapon shaking going to Ray, that was pretty terrifying, scared the shit out of me. I'll bet. You know?

And what started scaring me worse was how open these guys were to detection, but I was surprised that nobody was detecting our camp. So they had a cistern, anywhere in Latin America could see black tanks, 250, 500 gallons, and people put them up on a, on the roof or something, and they fill them with water, and that's how you work. So for us, inside this little corral, they built this platform. And the platform had a black cistern filled with water. They'd pump water, have a little generator pump water out of the river to it,

had a toilet up there on top of it. You're like 15 foot off the ground or maybe 10 foot in a toilet. So you do your business sitting on a toilet. Hey, Tom, Mark, what are you doing? You're sitting there. But I'm like, I saw those from my aircraft all the time. I could tell you how much water is in. It's just a heat signature, right?

So if it's half full, you could tell, right? And it was out in the middle of nowhere, open. And a couple aircraft would be circling our camp. And I'm like, there's no way they can't see this. There's just, so what I was scared was they're going to see it and come back and bomb us. They didn't know where they're there or not. But they never did. They never did.

And then after that, we were moved to a larger camp. where we put in with the politicians and the Colombian military. And they were separated. It was a big fenced-in area where there was like 20 of them inside like a little cabin that was built. And then, you know, the seven Colombian politicians and the three of us in the other side. And as big as it was, it was never found. I just, I mean, I'm just dumbfounded. Because I knew in our aircraft, if we got even anywhere in the vicinity of that,

we'd have seen it so I just didn't what's going on you know I mean something we skipped over is your wife is back home in the States pregnant with twins correct she wasn't my wife she wasn't my wife to be just open honest here she was a Colombian flight attendant that I met and she she ended up pregnant And so, yeah, we weren't even married. And my moral compass didn't look so good because I had a girlfriend in the States, too. You know, that wasn't, you know, I was wrong what I was doing, but nonetheless, that's the truth. And so I'm thinking, all that's on my mind, right?

What am I going to do? You know, what am I going to do? And I, I, uh, I, uh, it was a lot, a lot. And all you could do is think, right? All you can do is think. And I remember one day, I was worried about the three of us because I saw Mark and Tom in this little corral and they had their plastic chair that we could sit on. We each got a plastic chair and they got toothbrushes and they're just cleaning their chair

because again, there's nothing. It's like, where are we going here? you know shit and what I understand now it's almost like decompression in the sense you're having to get used to and cope

with your new environment and that's a learning process right and I think as Americans we are used to be in control of our environment and making decisions there's absolutely no control you're a rat in a cage and you have to make an adjustment

Some people call it prisoner brain. That might be an accurate statement. But there are big changes. Thank God at the time that somebody didn't say, hey, you got 1,950 more days. I wouldn't have wanted to know that. So I would say... Did you have any idea of the concept of time? Yeah.

Yeah, we had a rough idea of time. guards had watches they'd tell you what time it is whatever you know but um dates weeks months no we had a rough idea but the concept we live on a database basis here where you live here whatever no no and the thing for us is we had no information we would not get to where somebody had a radio and some news for nine more months. Holy shit, man. So we had no idea what the status of our families was. You know, it would be, let me see.

A year into it, a year and a half, until we did our first proof of life. Then we found out Tommy was dead, Sergeant Cruz was dead. You know, we had news about. about our families. How'd they do the proof of life? They took us into a village and there must have been a couple hundred fork, a little town.

We drove in a truck. They had some back of a truck. But they took us by river through the jungle and I'll never forget the bridge. And I thought, if I ever get out and I'm back airborne again, this is my, we find this fucking bridge I'm going to find this motherfucker.

It was over a river. I'd recognize it today. And there, Enrique Boteer, Rieke Botero, who's a liberal left-wing reporter, had been in the states trying to contact our families, but then he brings us newspapers, Miami Herald and all from the airport in Miami when he flew back because he knew he's going to film a proof of life of us.

Didn't give us, what a piece of shit, left-leaning reporter. And so I remember they bring us to this like just a jungle kind of cabin, a couple cabins and we see these important people or people who we knew or, you know, and Boterra comes in and talks to us for the proof of life. But the night before, Sumber comes in and he goes, hey, if you hear airplane tonight, don't worry about it. It's all good. So he flies in here on a Cessna and lands on a strip, bringing gifts for us out of the airport in Miami and shit.

What? Yeah, yeah. He's a reporter that works with the FARC. They let him come into the jungle and film us for political purposes. yeah he could have he could have dined him out and yeah yeah how about that how about that you're fucking kidding me nope nope you know and we get there and they make us mashed potatoes and steak and you know but still in the jungle right and they're giving us where we want and we saw ice for the first time in almost a year here's ice water like the fuck's going on it was just a set

up to do the proof of life and what do you say what do i know about my family what's going on who's alive, who's dead, you know. And it was just for propaganda purposes. But sick to me that a reporter has this much info and doesn't. Have you ever met him? Yeah, yeah. How did that go? I'd kill him if I could.

I mean, it's, yeah. I mean, met him since then. No, not after that. Not after the interview, no. No, no. He actually wanted to after we got out. I was like, no, I'm sorry. What would you say to him right now?

I fucking kill him. What's his name? Botero. I think it's Jorge Enrique Botero, yeah. And he thinks he's doing some kind of job, but he's a lefty, you know, out communist sympathizer. Tanya Niemeyer, she's a Dutch girl. And she's, I believe, she's got a red notice on her travel.

I just talked to my FBI supervisor, basically, they watched us a few months ago. and Tanya was, she's Dutch, and she taught English. So she came to Bogota and became an urban guerrilla. Are you shied me? Nope, nope, nope, enjoying the fucking gorilla. And, yeah, Tanya Niemeyer. And so I don't know if she's been able to get out of Columbia or not because the FBI,

we've got a red notice on her if she can't not travel. Because she wants to go home, you know, I guess back to the Netherlands, but she's living in Colombia. Yeah, I'd hang her from a tree. And I remember when we met her at The Proof of Life, and here comes this woman all dressed clean and, like, new camo, and got her sidearm on, like, she's a model or something. And her English was very, very good, perfect. And so I said, what color is your passport? She was like, that's funny, isn't it? So what colors your passport?

I know you're not Colombian. What I thought she was, was the Cubans trained students, right? And then they bring them in. So I thought she might have been one of the student communist out of Cuba that was brought in there, which turned out not to be true. She just got recruited in Colombia was a left-wing sympathizer and joined the gorilla. As she's teaching people English in Colombia, nothing, you know, just out there going to, you know. Shit. was there to interview us in English. She conducted the interview. And Monahoi, and there's a

great video of him getting bombed and killed, he reads a pronouncement to the United States of America. And the reason that they're keeping us hostage is we violated Colombian airspace. Yeah. The most important action you can take today is to help protect your family's future from cyber criminals and online predators. And Bunker, that's B-U-N-K-R, can help you do just that. Bunker was developed by experts with 25 years of experience catching criminals and fighting cybercrime. They created Bunker to help protect their own families, and now they're sharing it with you. Bunker even offers a family plan. With the family plan, you get a private messenger

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for bed. They are a one-stop shop for eyewear that's built to handle whatever life throws at you. Roka is the real deal. Ready to upgrade your eyewear? Check them out for yourself at roca.com and use code SRS for 20% off sitewide at checkout. That's Roka.com. What kind of questions did they ask you? Nothing. They set us up. They told us Mark, they told us that Tom and they got us in a room and there's other gorillas behind us, right? And they purposely put a couple small female guerrillas armed behind us to make us look big and them, you know, like to make them like weak Americans

and they put camo on us, which I didn't want to wear, but then everything else to wear. And they start filming and she does the interview and Botero said, oh, Mark, here's a message from your mom. You don't think Mark didn't break down? You know, and then, oh, here's a Miami Herald. What was the message from his mom? Just, I love, you know, just a, just news, right?

And I didn't, I didn't have anything from my family or Tom's. And so they wanted us to give a message back to our families on camera. You know, they're just using our pain for, so we just said basic stuff we love you. We didn't, we didn't do anything more than that. That when Bortaro handed the fucking Miami Herald to us, I want to kill his ass. You know, he knows he's coming. see us you're in the stage trying to get info from our families so you're facilitating our captivity by helping our captors what would you do you know so and i've always had a special

kind of distaste for neemeyer because she came to a country of her own free will educated and decided to become a terrorist, right? And when the peace talks were going out in Cuba, she was there and all the stuff. But she's had a falling out with the FARC ever since. And I don't know what she's doing, but last time I saw a couple years ago, one of the liberal universities in Colombia

gave her fucking honorary degree. Wow. That's fucking enraging. That is fucking enraging. So people say, do you hate him? I'm like, no, because that would get me alive. I had to let it go. But, you know, when I see a guy's in a Supermax now,

and you got an American lawyer saying he's a victim and he's all this stuff, and I'm like, a victim, when he supervised what's been done to us, and then you see all these people get online and they're just, I don't know what they are, protesters, whether, you know, I'm like, there's a reason he's in a superaxe. It's not because he's a sweetheart.

So for me, if you get too wrapped around the axle, it's just going to drag you to the bottom, right? You've got to step back, you know. I've talked to other POWs from Vietnam because I was a hostage. We weren't. I always tell people we're the longest, at one point, we're the longest held hostages in the history of the United States.

We're not the longest held BOWs. there's a difference. I don't want to take anything away from the POW community, right? You know? And so I have spoken with some folks who spent time and they hand out with Hilton and stuff like that, you know. Funny how our minds kind of did the same thing just to survive. But, uh, you know, it, um, you know, we're just lucky to be here, man, you know. I mean, two of us didn't make it after the crash. And then a few of our friends afterwards died in another crash looking for us in Colombia, close friends. When did you hear about that? I didn't hear about that until I think the proof of life, but I'm not sure.

We're just, we're in a box. How did they tell you that your comrades have been, that they assassinated your comrades? They just let us know. I think, I don't know if it was Bautero or if it was Tanya. speaking English to us, let us know, oh yeah, it was her. They let us know that they were dead, but then she also told something. She goes, you know, you guys are probably going to die. I'm looking like, what do you mean?

She goes, well, we had some other folks that were killed during a rescue, and they're planning to rescue you, but you're probably going to die. You're probably not going home. That's what she said? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What would you do? I mean, like, well, you know, it's beyond insanity, Sean.

It's not like, you know, it's, you're sitting here. This shit is actually going down. This isn't a story or a movie. We're here in the middle of it, you know. So that's when I say the cruelty of people can be, you know, unimaginable. Yeah, you guys are going to die. I was like, wow. Wow.

And then, what did you think when she said that? I remember Tom leaning over me and telling me, he said, Keith, just remember they're filming us right now. I think they're filming us. I said, yeah, okay, it's fine. I thought the odds are that we might die in a rescue if it wasn't done by the right people. But we were so overwhelmed with the motion at that moment

to your over a year in captivity, whatever, and here's information on your family, your buddies are dead, it just all hit us at one time, right? So I was just trying to process everything. Where did you think your buddies were up before that, before you found out? We didn't know.

Well, maybe there were another camp. Maybe they just separate us. We didn't know. We didn't know. Why did they kill them? Because they tried to escape. I knew Tommy's, there was, and Tommy would have never survived captivity.

Hell no. He'd have killed him. You couldn't put Tommy to cage. Sorry. You know, I actually, his wife just recently passed. And I was talking to one of his sons. And, you know, I said Tommy would have never made it. He couldn't have, he could have never been caged, my belief. Why do you say that? This is personality. There was never a second, never a second. I know, you know, and he was my mentor. He's the one that got me hired. I knew as soon as he walked away from that plane, I know Tommy. He was just looking at the right moment to pop smoke.

That was his personality. You know, I mean, and he would have never, let me put it this way. Tommy could do anything he wanted to do, but he would have never let himself choose to be a captive. What was the Sorry for all the questions Coming up from previous But my mind just spent it

I mean When you threw the M4 And the Burettas down the hill Yeah And I know the The Indage guy that was with He was pissed off

What did the rest of them think? Nobody Nobody was really It was just It was just Cruz and I Look there was Are you going to fight a fight You can't lose?

Right Fight a fight you cannot lose No, fight a fight, that you're, I'm sorry. You know you can't win. That you can't win. Are you looking at surviving or just going out? I wasn't looking at committing suicide. I get it.

I'm just curious. I wanted to live to fight another day. Yeah. And so that was just, I looked, Cruz is like we've got to start shooting. I looked and I'm like, no, we don't. I mean, there were ants everywhere. I said, no bad decisions. And I remember we're at the bottom when they gave me.

his lemonade and they took my wallet and the only thing I had there I wanted to keep was a picture of my little 10 year old son and they wouldn't it still makes me cry now I said can I have the picture no it's all right and Tommy looks at me and he goes what do you think Keith I said we're fucked he goes what I said we're fucked but maybe tomorrow or not all we're going to do is fucking live. My mindset was Marx was the same way. Tom, all of us, we just wanted to live. So I didn't care what it took to survive. I just, I wanted to live. I mean, it's not complicated. And you have a choice. Step in a hole and just give up or just keep rolling. And all three of us did that. You know, we have very distinct personalities, but, you know, we all did it

in our own way, you know. And so I remember the three of us being tied up in a box, a quarter of the size of this room that was just a cage, right? You know, hard to get along that way 24-7, isn't it? You're going to have some arguments, you know? It's just, the way things are but we made it out and stuff are you guys arguing about stupid shit like what you're in it mark and i had a argument one night over uh which fighter was better in world war two it's like something stupid right but it's like you're like this you're this no motherfucker no motherfucker no Fuck, you know, fuck you, you know. Like, it's just, it's got to let off somewhere, right?

And I remember we finally got a radio because we started negotiating with the guards. And, you know, we had a covert headphone. And we, there was a, it's really sick. But there was a radio station called Voices of the sequestros, voices of the hostages. And it was run out of Bogota. A guy did this.

and on sunny nights between 12 and 2 everybody's family would go down there and leave messages and it was shortwave so you get messages from your family we didn't get any not for years only occasionally but how sick that every every Saturday night or whatever you go down at one o'clock in the morning and you leave a message for your son or your husband who's been held in your country for six years we live for those things yeah that's the political situation right What kind of messages were coming in? People dying, birthdays, Christmas, love you. You know, hey, your father died.

You know, we had a police captain. He was dying. And the Pope and his daughter got on the radio live, begging the FARC to let him go. he had been captured when she was like seven and he was a fighting motherfucker but now he was sick and I don't know what the condition was but his legs were purple all the way up to his chest and when we had real pressure on us and we were on a death march he was marching with us

he couldn't march so he's crawling through the jungle with a chain around his neck on all fours trying to keep up with a column so the Colombian soldiers were going to go fucking nuts it was too much for them to see. So they took them out of chains. And he's sitting on the ground next to me and Mark. And we had in our little bowls, we had five spoonfuls basically of watery red beans and rice like every 24 hours to sustain it. Then he goes here, you two eat mine. And we're like, no, what the fuck's wrong with you? He goes, I'm dying, man. You guys aren't. I'm dead. I'm already dead.

And he fucking died. Soon later, we were separated. He wasn't even, he was a skeleton. Couldn't just let him fucking go. He had no political value. We weren't eating his red beans and rice. We forced him to eat it. But he was giving it to us.

He knew he was dead. He knew he was dying. Then you hear his daughter on the radio, please. Can you just let my father go? And the Pope, the Pope himself asked? that's crimes against humanity you think so you see this stuff and it's like mercy on you motherfuckers you know when you got to the final camp where they had the the the the politicals yeah what a welcome that was so show

It's a big fixed, fixed, fenced-in area with a fence between it, living on one side for the soldiers and the police, and living for the seven politicians. So we get there by boat, and they bring us up, and I remember as we're walking up, we see all the Colombian police coming up, right? And they were playing soccer, little soccer ball, that's all I did all day long, and inside a fucking cage. And Mark goes, look at the chains. So outside the gate to get into each side was a rack. And these chains are not like something you have a dog on. I mean, these are big, heavy chains. Chains and locks, chains and locks, chains and locks, chains and locks.

Chains and locks. I was going to bring it to show you, but I don't want to lose it anywhere on an airline flight, but I have my lock that was around my neck. And it's a paperweight on my desk. And so I'll send you a picture of it. but um i was like fuck chains mark spotted in percy goes those are for us dean i was like fuck so the tourists around the little walkway and all the columbian soldiers come running up to the gate right one guy in particular his hair was all the way down to his calf he had not cut his hair

since he'd been captured and he says to us in broken broken english I'm glad you're here, but I'm not glad you're here. I said, why? He said, because Americans never leave their people behind. So if you're here, they're going to find us. Kind of poignant, wasn't it? It'd take a few years, but it happened. You know?

So they did not want to be separated from us. I would have been the same way. You know, I'd have been the same way. But yeah, we were in that camp for, gosh, nine months or so. I might be off five month or two before we were moved and split up because the pressure from the military just got too much. What kind of pressure? Just presence on the ground, cutting off routes on the, you know, the rivers were like a road, right? So there's a video on YouTube of these three gorillas and kayukas, which are their aluminum canoes with a 40-horse motor on the back.

and they just turned. They got supplies that were bringing into a camp and they run into Colombian Army sitting on the river. And it was a massacre, man. I mean, they just, it was a massacre. What started to happen was the Colombian military started doing more permanent operations.

You see they go into an area for 45 days or 90 days and they leave. Well, now they're moving in the areas and we ain't going over. We're here for six months, right? But it upsets the logistics network for the guerrilla who need beans and bullets and rice and, you know, you need Kotex pads for women and, you know, like you break up their ability to live comfortably and they started pushing. Now, I don't know if that was pushed by our people, but Plan Colombia changed a lot because it put the money in the horsepower behind the Colombian army to do things. But I think that we, the three of us, are one of the big factors that everybody got rescued.

And it's not because Keith and Mark and Tom were politically important people. The moment you took the three guerrillas, or you took the three Americans hostage, you opened up the U.S.'s ability to work against the guerrilla directly. Because under Planned Columbia, we couldn't, right? I saw a gorilla all the time. I couldn't do anything except report it when I got back. back. And I told the bosses, I said, you guys fucked up. I said, you gave present, your present that you hate so much. You gave him the biggest gift in the world. You captured us. Now we can

help you guys freely. And that's what we did. That's what we did. It was a total miscalculation on their part. If it would have been me and I was running the FARC, I would have hand delivered us, freshly shaved and shower with some extra cash in our pocket to go home to Disney World right to the embassy steps and said, sorry, I'm not fucking with you. Intelligent side, militarily, it was the worst mistake they could have made. Because when you start flipping rocks looking for us, you find other things. You know, and that's what happened. How many camps did you wind up in?

Shit, I can't count them. Okay, I'll count the main camps. First one, second one, third one, there was another one, maybe four main camps. A camp after that was just a hammock, mosquito net, and a... tarp over your head. We were just on the move. And how long was it before you guys could talk to each other? Oh, about a time we got to the politicians and all, we were talking then.

How long had that been? Seven months, maybe? Seven months? Eight months? Eight months, yeah. Seven months of no talking? Pretty much. Nothing.

I could be off. Mark's memory is way better than mine. He always does know, you know, but yeah, we lost our voices, basically. And, you know, I, they were frustrating things, too, like for poor Tom. Okay, this is what sucked. Tom spoke fluent Spanish. We didn't. So Tom was a translator.

24-7, we got to get him to ask for stupid shit for these guys, which put more stress on him, right? You know, it was, it was pretty evil. And when we got to the camp of the politicians, that was even worse. because they thought the one politician said please don't let those nasty Americans in here one motherfucker oh they sleep with whores

we sleep with whores you're calling a politician you haven't slept with a whore do you know what goes on it's good I was like but there was just this arrogance this arrogance that no we don't want them in here they didn't want to share any space

they wanted us out in the mud instead of saying space inside there talk about a class system that's where they treat their own people well they have it and i remember class system down there i remember old lucho is senator senator right you know one day we're sitting there in the compound and there's a table so consuelo was a congressman had to listen to her husband die on the radio and big cat what we nicknamed a big cat is this big dude who's heavy, but he moved like smoke. Just a joke.

So we just named him the big cat. So he's kind of trying to talk to me one day, and he's feeling me out to see, like, you know, do I have any money or what's it like in the States? And it's like, do you have a boat? And I'm like, yeah, I got a boat. He said, can you draw me a picture outside? Drew a picture of this fucking giant, like, you know,

Viking Sportfish. And I watched Consuelo. She knew I was sucking them down. The hook was going. The hook was going. and they care about platica money and what's your last name and so uh big cat goes holy shit and he runs into the little hooch and he shows lucho what's going on and lucho goes keith you know what he goes what does american contractor make i said a whole lot more than a Colombian senator

a motherfucker you know but that's how they judge people right and Some people did stuff in captivity and said, oh, I was in captivity, it caused me to do those things. Bullshit, you find out who you really are in captivity. It's like peeling that onion layer back. You find out who you are. And I remember they would bring bowls. This camp we actually could sometimes get like tomatoes and onions.

They bring a big bowl of like cut tomatoes and onions and maybe some yucca and a big bowl of rice and, you know, of all lentils, which I still love, ate them, or I love lentils, man. So we get into a line, the dirtbag Americans, right? We're not politicians or any stuff. And so if Mark and I are there, we're like, okay, we'll just take what you need, right? We get there, everything's gone. We're all living in a box together, right?

And so finally, the gorilla put a stop to that and said, hey, fuck that. And one of us would dish out the food so we could do it fairly. They take a couple of politicians that take vegetables and I'll not even eat them, let them rot. We're starving. Well, I need those. I'm different. I thought we're all human beings here. So it was very disgusting, you know, some of the elitists, what you'd see them do.

Now I said, no, I know other kid in that dress, you know. But disappointing, too, in humanity. You thinking something like that, we'd all kind of bond up? No. No shit. No. I never would have thought that. I don't want to sit here and, like, disparage them personally and whatever,

because I've said some very nasty shit about one of them in particular. But it's like, hey, what's wrong with you? And that's where one of them was pregnant. That's where I was going next. And how she stayed sane, what she went through. I mean, we got into the, if you want to ask me the question, set it up. But, you know, we got into that camp, and there's a few women there, right? And so, Clara was an attorney, and she was working on Ingrid Bettencourt's presidential election.

And then you had another woman there, Consuela, who was next to us. We called her Big Mama, but just like he said, she talked to Mark and I was very kind. Like we, she had listened to her husband dying the radio, or her daughters tell you your dad's dying. And then, you know, another woman, one of the senators. So, um, Claire is a little eclectic. She's a little different, right? But she was a, she was a decent person. And Mark goes, hey, man, take a look at her.

I'm like, what? He goes, look. And she had sweats on. She had that little egg shape. She's a very small, petite woman. Marcus, I bet she's pregnant. So you think so, man? He said, yeah, she's pregnant.

Mark saw it first. And so, um, as it became obvious, she was pregnant. She got no care, no anything. I think her prenatal care was an extra box of crackers and some fucking canned milk. And I remember, you know, she was taking a hostage with the Ingrid Bettencourt, right? And just trying to protect reputation,

Bettencourt's like, oh, no, no, no, no. There are some other hostages, civilians, and they had a relation. She slept with a gorilla. she was just trying to get free. She thought if I get pregnant, they got to let me go. Fuck, no, they don't.

And so... So they didn't rape her? No. It was a plan. No, no. It was a plan. That wouldn't have been allowed. Not allowed at all.

Not giving the credit, but that wouldn't allow. So they take her out when she's about to deliver, but she's not delivering. And so one night we hear a baby screaming in the fucking camp. Now, of course, the women that are with us

are either grandmothers or moms, they're, you know, their radar's up. Like three days later, maybe I could be off, four or five days. And we would hear the baby screaming. They bring the baby back with Claire into the camp, right? And the baby is wrapped up from head to toe

and they give it to us. Well, here's how Clara gave birth. They got a guy who's supposedly the medic that's never had medical training in his life, just self-taught guy of a book, they shoot her a morphine sticker on a fucking table and they cut her guts open and try to get the baby out. Holy shit.

I got to give a woman strength. You got to get whatever, man, you've got to give. So in trying to, to get the baby out, Milton, who would later take over for us, never spent a day in a school or anything, broke the baby's arm in half trying to get around her stomach. So when they bring the baby back to us, the baby's drugged up, and the arms wrapped. Emmanuel is what Clara named him. How Clara stayed sane with that, I give her kudos.

And so Clara, eventually, we couldn't stop the baby from crying. And Mark was, I think they're drugging the baby up. Mark was pretty onto it. There was a reason that he was an intel analyst. He would figure out, I was pretty good, but he sees me. They're drugging the baby up. So they took the baby from Clara. So here's Clara laying in a bunk next to me, just hard wood.

When I say bunk, it's just wood pallets, right? And the baby's crying at night, and she'd go call his name at the fence. Amen well, amen well. And then you see another gorilla girl carrying your baby when we're marching and leaving and you're sitting there on the ground and they won't even let you touch the baby. And you fucking stay sane? Give that woman credit. We didn't agree on a lot of things, but give her credit.

They cut her. They cut her up. They c-section. Did a C-section on a table in a fucking jungle. And when they sewed her up, it was like this, Oh, my God. And she survived. I got to say tough, man.

She survived. And here was the worst thing. Or no, it was the best thing. They went and gave the baby, when they separated Claire from the baby, they gave the baby to some Campesinos that were FARC sympathizers. You know what the Campesinos did? Straight to the fucking government and handed a kid over. So the kid got care, got everything.

And a little while later on the radio and all, the government's talking about, hey, amen, well, they don't even know that the kids, the government care. You know, here's what we did for the kid. He's in good shape. And the president comes out. Yeah, he's in good shape. We've had him. We've had him for a fucking year.

So mud on the face of the leadership, right? And they released her on just like trying to gain some. Yeah, but they released Clara. But I don't care. You know, I thought Claire was a little odd and a little different, but she's an attorney. and but to see a woman go through that I got a lot of respect for me I got a lot of respect for that

you know and how long was the baby in there before they gave it away I think that once they separated the baby with Clara I think from what I maybe months until that couple got out and turned it into the government which was the right I mean they did they might have got a reward or I don't know

but Amen well I haven't heard a few years but after we're freed he's with his mom he's healthy they're living together he's okay right got fixed i mean so a happy ending but that's what animals are and they're they're animals you know so for me just sitting there watching that you know the pain that that person would go through was just unbelievable more disgusting stuff that people are capable of but How could you do that to a baby, right? You know? I mean, so for us, another one of the Patreon folks had a question of the initial setup out there

about what is captivity like in the jungle with the FARC. The best way I can say it is groundhog day for five and a half years or ten years, no matter long you're there. It's all green. You're going to eat rice, lentils, lentils, rice. Maybe some fish if they catch them in the river. hopefully a little fried yucca, okay? And you're just going to move from spot to spot to spot hiding.

That's all you do. And you can never see more than 20 or 30 yards unless you're on the move and you see something. It's Groundhog Day. It's just what is going to come up next? You know, what problem is going to come up next? You know, we were being moved and my company makes, I retired from, I have to say,

Northrop did the right thing for the families. Northbrook, I can't say enough about what they did for the families while we were gone. But what did they do for the families? A good example. My son said to me, he said, Dad, you want to know how to tell what size corporate jet you're on? I said, what's that? He said the size is a flat screen TV making a joke. But they took care of the families.

They paid us, which they didn't have to do. The government and Longshoremen's Act could have come in and paid it. they said no. They're going to get full pay. They have their jobs. They had a family service person that would come and visit with each family regularly, update us, political. I mean, they did what they did all that they could do. And they could have cut us loose. The government was like, well, we'll take this over. And they're like, no, no, nope, there are employees. We're going to do right by then. So I have to give them credit. You know, they did right by us. And I remember you know, we're on the run one day,

and this is getting close to the end, to the rescue, maybe a year out, maybe less. And so this guy, we're sitting in there on the side of the damn river, and we're just going down a river. We're running, though. We know there's pressure on it. And this guy walks up with this tube,

you know, and he said, the commandant wants to know what this is. Well, it's a camera system that sits on the ground. You guys have installed on place. He says, well, this one was called Scorpion. And it's made by my company, probably so, right? So I was like, fuck, where do you get that? So he's trying to take it off.

And I said, don't do that. And he goes, well, I said, because it's pressurized. And he said, well, will you explain this to us? I said, yeah, can we have some coffee? Mall trade. But this is one of our little ground sensors, right? I mean, you can just Google it on. It's nothing.

It's no big classified system, but I was thinking, and fuck our people are here. And we had just heard on the radio and the U.S. government admitted that some of your folks in the 7th group were on the ground with the Colombians. I was like, shit, they're finally fucking here. So there's a GPS antenna that goes with or whatever.

Office is there and he's like, can I plug this into my GPS? It'll make it better. I said no. And he goes, this is one of your cameras. I didn't say it's one in North. that we made her. I said, yeah, it's, it's a camera system. He said, well, how many do you guys have, you know? I said thousands. I was trying to, right, but essentially what had happened

was, but I found out later that the Colombian team had put this camera in, and I will leave, you don't just have one camera, I'll just leave it that way. You're walking into a net of shit. But it was fucked up. This camera was still white. They didn't even fucking paint it green or black or anything. And so it's buried in the riverside or on some leaves and the gorilla goes to take a piss and he's paying on him. I was like, fuck. So Gophis is looking at me. He goes, Keith, is this good? I said, not for you. What do you want me to tell you? I mean, I've been with them for years. I mean, he says, okay, so they gave it to a kaiyuka to take to the bosses. I learned later that kaiyuka got whacked and they got the camera back. But it's, you know,

it's a, it's a ground sensor. It's no big top secret deal, really employment stuff is stuff that I'd never talk about, but it's, you know, but I was like, fucking hey, motherfucker. Someone's here. And that made them nervous. Because the Colombians would never operate in small teams, you know, our doctrine being a little bit different. Everybody was like, holy. And as soon as I got back, I told everybody what it was. And so there were some mistakes made and trying to get the stuff. But that camera actually didn't even get good pictures of us, and we all passed by it.

So it's even better that they found it because the psychological impact on the gorilla was, the boss was like, oh shit, they're in our backyard. They're fucking here. And we were like, I had a woody dude. I was just like, hell yeah. How many years in was that? Four and a half? Four and a half years.

Yeah, about a year before we got out, yeah. What kept you going? Just want to get home, man. All three of us, we just want to get home. Maybe for different reasons. I just, I'm, I wouldn't, dying there. Look, I love my family. I missed my family and things like that. And you would do whatever you can to get back for that. But me, my drive was, I felt defeated dying there. I don't

know if that makes sense, but that's the only way I can, you know, put it, you know, obviously you want to see your kids, right? I didn't know if my dad, my dad and I had kind of a rough relationship and weren't on good speaking terms like we should be. Just stupid arguments, right? It's like, is my dad still alive, you know, you don't know anything. I just wanted to get home, Sean, you know. And everybody has their own personal drive. I think, you know, I think, I think, I just think we're different. Look around this room, look this country. I just think we're different. I just want to get back to this. I didn't care. I didn't care if I was working. somewhere hauling wood at the construction site living in an old beat-up trailer i just want to get

home and have some ice it's it was just i'm not fucking dying here that's like to coach each other oh we we both be up and down one somebody's strong one day somebody's weak the other day sometimes you know mark's strong i'm down he's like no bro no bro tom we called him the kermudgeon i said tom you know your jokes were so bad before he got captured. It took his four years in the jungle start laughing at your dumb-ass jokes. And then we figured out that Tom's really funny. And you've heard every story that you can tell

when you're face-to-face locked up with somebody, right? So there's nothing new, you know. So, you know, everybody had a drive to get home. That was it. And I'm not necessarily going to say It was just their loved ones. It was just something amongst the three of us that we're not digging a hole here. I don't care.

We're going one more day. You know, and that was day-to-day. That's the way you get out of it. Any torture? So what do you call torture? Plan torture like RPAWs went to in Vietnam? No. But I remember like one day, I'm sliding into the river and through my boots.

All these spines. they're about two inches long going to my bed there's like seven or eight of them embedded in my bed so the medic there was a real asshole what they called their medic was fucking with me when you take the spines out of my toes and my feet and all just making it they're like blades on them

just making it you know just making it hurt on purpose shit like that but I think torture comes in many ways it's not necessarily breaking somebody's hands or hooking a battery up to them like in the movies or something or You know, torture is denial of basic, you know, human needs.

You don't five years. Right? Torture is no food, no medical care. You know, there's a psychological component. I guess they've been interrogation type torture. No, they never, they weren't, they didn't give a shit about what we knew. We were just, and Tom said it. Tom said it perfectly.

He said, we're just hanging meat. They don't want anything from us. We're just a commodity. And that's all we were. I would have thought, like I told one of the commandantes, I'm like, you think we didn't see you all the time? They wouldn't believe me. We could be over you, and I just have one push of the satcom, I could report, live physician, hit it with a laser, and give away your coordinates. I wasn't allowed to do that.

We were on a plank. We couldn't do that. We couldn't fight against the guerrilla directly. We were against drug targets. And the moment they captured us, that rule handcuffs were off. they didn't believe it I've seen them a million times no I'm not a million that's exactly

but we saw them frequently and I really didn't realize until captivity some of the stuff we saw that we didn't think was guerrilla was guerrilla activity like what I can tell you what

a kayuca which is a big aluminum canoe you'd see it and wear their dress you thought oh that's a couple of campasinos nope nope those are guerrillas dressed like campesinos I could tell all the way the boat is, what they've got in it, what they're hauling, and you could look a little closer at them, especially the area where you're at, they're the only ones operating there.

So, sad story was, I think it was four or five fishermen were murder because of us. They saw us. So, did you see it? No. One of, I would say, the most intimidating guerrillas. I ever saw, hands down, was Hentiel, Hentiel Duarte. Supposedly, he was killed about 10 months ago. Mark and I wondered if it was fake.

He was part of the peace process in Cuba, but then went back to the jungle. He didn't agree with what was going on. He left Cuba to go back to the jungle to talk some guys in to some other leaders, hey, quit fucking around, get part of the peace process, and he just stayed with them. but we meet Duarte one morning we're all uncovered just in hammocks tied to trees right next to a river

and they're going to move us so they put us in a boat it's like a runabout some weird you know just but it had like four benches in it 200 horse motor on it and they put me right behind

Duarte and Mark right behind Duarte and then Tom was next to us and I look over there and the whole fucking floor there must have been a dozen RPEs their boots are on top of them. A couple M60s that I remember ammo and I'm like, fuck, I didn't know who this guy was, but he had a presence about him. I'm sure you've seen guys that you know are serious guys. There's no. And he was one of those. So he was joking around and kind of laughing.

And he took us and dropped us off at this spot on the river, which is basically the island felt like it was floating. We're just going to be there for a few days. So a few nights later, they pick us up at night and they're running us down the river we're in the same boat that was his boat but there's nothing in it it's just some junior guys moving us and they're just moving us to more permanent camp well somebody yells helicopter helicopter helicopter and we look behind us in the jungle man there's an ambient light you're not around a city or town right it was a bright full moon but it looked like a fucking spotlight from a helicopter it was unbelievable bright and the guy that was driving just beaches the boat in front of this fisherman's little shack

and they take us out of the shack really quick and the fisherman walk out and they see us face to face they hide us behind the shack and everybody goes no it's the fucking moon it's not a helicopter we get back in the boat and everybody's looking at everybody and the fishermen are two feet from me looking at me I'm like hey amigo you know we get in the boat and uh another fisherman comes up in a little canoe and they're saying well the army's here the army because they're questioning where's the army they you know they're trying to avoid the army so they take us to this little place that's like a concrete boat ramp in the jungle on like a little field but had you know canopy over it and they put us there

three days later on the news on that river it's live five fishermen executed by the FARC. And so I look at Bighead, who was one of our guards, we nicknamed all the guards. He had a boolehead on him. He goes, yeah, I know. Big Head didn't feel good about it. But they killed him because they saw us. Shit.

Did you develop relationships with the guards? Yeah. How can you, how can you, we can, you and I can hate each other, and they can change you to that chair and chain me to this chair. At some point, we're going to start talking. right do we have stockholm syndrome no but when you got a guard it's like 17 years old or 18 years old and he's with you for years and you watch him grow up right you're gonna develop some type of relationship our theory was if we could treat them with respect number one we'd stay out of chains which didn't work but maybe maybe that would buy us a second or two of hesitation for them

killing us if a disembark came there trying to get us out and a rescue that was our theory and so a few of the guards um secretly secretly um apologized for us being there but said hey this is it's not in our control right but we were together for years so hey if we had extra smokes because i I didn't smoke, but I take the smoke, say it goes all time, pass it off to the guard. Well, if the guard's girlfriend is small, take 10 pounds of her rice and sugar, put it in your ruck, he's sneaking you in left over food at one in the morning when he's on guard duty. You know, just basic stuff. And I remember one of them that got killed, he went looking for food.

His name was Mono, little, you know, if you're dark, they call you Negro, if you're light skin, they call you mono it's just a latin culture it's not a racist thing or whatever and mono got killed and he was walking with one of the bad guys rohelio and i have to admit i felt a little like damn mono you could have been because he could have been something different right but i remember one night he comes in he sneaks in this was a if you would get caught sneaking in man it was in his ass he brought mark and tom and i some sausages and he goes this is all i can do guys and he said if you heard that i said something about it in our little communal meeting if i said something bad about you guys? Well, I have to. He was risking his

ass to give us food or sneak us a radio or batteries for a radio so we could hear the news. You can't have a little empathy for that? He's never going anywhere. We get rescued or not. He's there for life right there. He's never going anywhere. So, you know, they were very curious about the outside world. So we would tell them stories. They're like little kids. And I remember one of them, was it Fort Campbell

when the Herc, or the tornado came through when we lost like half a dozen Apaches or something. And so the guy goes, man, all your helicopters are gone. I said, we have more than six helicopters. Right. But their concept was not, they just didn't understand outside world. Tom came up with a fucking genius move. So there was a reward for us, each one of us, millions of dollars. So one night Big Head says to us, he goes, hey, man, if I can get you out, would you manage my money for me? I can like that.

I don't know what $5 million looks like. But he was serious. He was like, could you help me with that? We're like, Bighead, if you get us out, yeah, we'll help you with the money. But he was dead serious. It was just like a business here, right? So Tom realized, we knew it, but Tom came up with this genius thing. He starts drawing in his book.

He drew like 10 pages of just cows, little bitty cows, 10 pages of cars. Then a few pages of hot women, right? Trying to go, you see all this, Big Head? That's what you get with this. money. Boom, they got it. And, and, um, so we thought, oh, we'd be big heads money manager, right? So I will never forget, I'm giving a debrief. And this is political correctness gone fucking just stupid. And there are two women from the agency. And one was a handoff from England working with, it's like a, you know, a trade. And so I'm telling the story about what Tom

wrote. She gets pissed off because I mentioned the women, the Tom drew women, and you could have women, right? She just gets all offended. I'm like, the fuck. I'm not putting women down. Tom figured out a way to connect with these people, right? And what do you think a 19-year-old guard wants? I could tell you what he wants. He's in the jungle by himself for years. I had that a date, right? But I thought Tom's idea, and they were furious at a briefing. Are you Dead serious, dead serious, dead serious. I couldn't make that shit up. But I thought, what a genius idea. You know, he drew boats. You know, he drew cows, women, trucks. But I thought that was pretty heads up, right? But they don't know anything. They asked us one time. This was really when I knew one of the guys that have a distaste for. only because of a stupidity, but he was like a recruiter. So he would go out in the countryside, and he would spread the communist word

and recruit these young people in, right? So one time he's sitting there and he goes, hey, we want to know about your special forces. And what do you mean you want to know about our special forces? We need to know something about your special forces, yeah. Did your special forces people teach Keanu Reeves those moves in the Matrix so we can't shoot them? I tell Keanu Reeves

I know that but in the movie when he's going like this and the bullets are going past him they really fucking thought that he was serious holy shit what

I'm not bullshit if you get me Mark or Tom we're like are you shitting me now not all were that ignorant but that was it I mean that's what you're dealing with so

I would say now 15, 16 years later, it's not like that, but they were still pretty primitive. And it was, I came up with a torture, though. I came up with a torture for Martine Summer, the ignorant gorilla guy. Martine comes to give us a pep talk one day in front of the other guards that he wants to impress them. And he's talking about riding in a box.

Like, what? Riding in a box. Well, he just built a box over us. It's barely enough for three guys to lay down, which was bob wire and a chain link fence. And he said it was to protect us from the leopards. It was for our own protection. So he sits down and he tells us a story about he was in Bogota.

Or I don't know if it was Bogota, one of the cities one time. He got to ride in a box. And all his little minions around him, like, tell us about the box. Tell us about the box. He said, yeah, we went in the building. We just push a butt when we go up, we get up, and then we're on top of the building. It's a fucking elevator.

Wow. Sounds like Afghanistan. I'm just saying you don't know. Yeah. We assume that somebody else uses our logic. That's our first mistake. That's our first mistake. So we didn't really understand.

I don't think that we really understood the gorilla like we should have. I think we do now, but unless we're going to gauge against them directly. What would the, you guys were planning stuff a little bit? I mean, how would you do that? Were you monitored all the time? So here's what I thought was our hope one time. So one of the guys comes to us, and he's got a little handheld GPS, a little garment. And he also has a radio.

And so he goes, I got an idea. It was Bighead, actually. He said, when we have our communal center, which, you know, every night they get together and do their little cultural hour and talk, you know, it's brainwashing, right? He said, I'll get weapons and we'll kill everybody here, and I've got this ready in GPS and we can leave. And I'm like, how many people all armed during the thing? He said, you know, there are about 30 down their arm?

I said, okay, so we can get us. He said, I get two AKs. We just kill them all. Do you really think that we can walk down there with 30 armed motherfuckers and just kill them all in two seconds and walk out of here? And there's other camps around us, right? They're going to hear the shooting. And I'm like, hell no.

Mark and I look at your, that's not a good idea. That's not, it's not like we're on a mountain with five people and we could just shoot them and be dead. We're surrounded by, there's other, you know, and all like Big Head, you got to come up with a better idea. So I said, here's my idea. And Mark, I think I don't want to take credit because Mark and I, I said, we get the radio and the GPS. We don't go towards town. We do. We go deep and we go high.

And we'll get on the radio. Because they were going to think we're going to town, and we don't kill anybody. One night when you're on guard duty, we're just gone. How about we do that? Because that way, if we get caught, we're not going to get executed ourselves. I didn't think it was possible. I mean, do you really think it's possible for a couple guys in that situation to go into about 30 guerrillas at arm and just kill them all and get away smoothly?

I think it depends on who you're with. well like i'm saying but with all those camps around right so i said why do we have to kill anybody why attract attention why don't we just disappear there's a little confusion there but then he didn't want to uh he he he backed out on that you know then they come by one day and they say hey why are you americans down here flying around i said what do you mean well all these helicopters are manned by Americans because they're speaking on the radio in English. I'm like, it's not Americans, said they're doing spray operations and they're talking to different aircraft.

Well, the number one language is English. Even here, it's not Spanish, right? But they thought it's Americans over them. No, it was Colombian pilots and a spray package communicating back and forth in English. So just strange stuff, Sean, out there. At what point did they present you with the M4 that you had tossed? They never presented it. We went to Miami and we're in their...

I don't mean them. I mean the girls. Oh, so... This had to be a few months into captivity. We're being moved. And this guy rides up with the ponies. And he's on it. And he's got the M4 and he goes, you recognize this?

It's like, oh, fuck. He's like, thank you. I'm going to kill your guys willing to come. So he was carrying it, you know, and then they were asking about horses and we were each getting on a horse. So I had horses. I was making fun of being a pony, not a horse. And the guy had a sense of humor, right?

But he wanted to talk to us. He wanted to engage because we were like this oddity, right? They've never met Americans before. And so I got up on the horse and he goes, I said, man, this is not magic. you guys do. I said, everything you do in the jungle, you could teach us in two or three weeks. I said, well, we do in the outside world, you couldn't do it in years. You know, they're very simple. It's not a, you know, so, I don't know. You know, but to see the M4 in the evidence room, Miami, that was, especially with a hole in it, that was nice. We'll get to that at the rescue.

Yeah. I want you to talk about Mark and his carbs, too. Oh, my God. And now Mark's, he's all super fit now. Can we do that now or later on? That's good now. So we're starving and what we did to keep just, if you stop, you're right, right? So we would build what we call the jungle stair stepper, and it would just be two steps.

And you'd get on it for hours, just up. But you can work up a real good sweat if you're hauling that. He's built the steps high enough. So Mark gets some vines. The guards would give it to us, right? And they want to see us occupied. They're good at keeping people like this, right? So Mark ties up a pull-up bar.

And he goes, I'm going to get to 20 pull-ups. And he did. He got the 20 dead hang slow pull-ups, right? And he's lost all his weight. One day after he gets his pull-ups, it turns around. I was like, fuck. I said, Mark, you got a six-pack. Right?

And we get these little mirrors you can't see anything, right? and he's like, holy shit, you know? So I don't know if it was that day or whatever, Mark's not eating his rice. Like, we're starving. He's like, yeah, we just got to cut on the carbs, man. He's like all yoked. We're skeletons, you know?

And he's lennels, man, it's good. The lennels, no, we got to ease up on the rice so I get fat. I was just, you know, we're insane at that point. But he was. He had his, you know, he did his 20, you know, pull-ups, and he had his six-back going. and he's like there in a camp like this.

It's like we're on beach on vacation, you know, but we're there, you know. Damn. Yeah. I mean, you know, you're sitting there in your underwear with rubber boots on and you're walking up and down like a homemade stair climber for hours

just trying to stay sane, you know. Is there anything else you has would do? Hmm. That was our main exercise thing. What about the chest pieces? I want to show you there's a picture in this book this is super impressive what Mark did

and the chef sets energy I believe I haven't opened this up for a while if not he just sent me a picture here it is so he got a piece of a machete from a gorilla with permission

I don't know how long it took them like this took him shit a year maybe less and every time we'd stop Mark would start carving chest pieces right and then we

got all the chess pieces done the gorilla gave us a piece of cardboard and tape and Mark made the chest the board and the board would fold in half and he had a little bag he put his chest pieces in and carried

them everywhere and then the gorilla wanted to play chess too so they would borrow it during the day if we were in a fixed camp and everybody would play chess. Is that amazing what he did? Yes. By hand.

We'll put this up on screen. And the most impressive thing about those chess pieces, there was so much oil on them for people just playing them for years, they were smoothed out. Wow. I'm like, Mark, you're a woodworker, dude.

He's got that at the house now. How amazing. You know? He'd get there, he'd just start carving. He'd just start carving. He'd just start carving. I'm like, man. And I will tell you what, we owe Mark, seriously. This thing's going to do here.

Everybody there in the jungle, probably some of the gorilla, too. You know, Mark should get billed as a doctor because the therapy that that chess set brought to us was amazing. We would have chess tournaments that would last like days over a pack of crackers. you know and mark be a smart ass he'd start screwing me we're playing chess and he'd save his coffee we'd just play for hours hours and hours and hours and hours we'd just sit there chained up in hours mark would take his leftover coffee and he'd set it out on my side of the chessboard and just leave it there and not say a word and keep playing trying to do a little psychological work because he knew i wanted that fucking coffee right but um yeah that's what he did amazing it's uh

I don't know, people are capable of a lot. What are those Bible verses? So one of the best things that we got to read in captivity was a Spanish to English New Testament. So we read it cover to cover, cover to cover. So Mark, I would say, was the most religious out of everybody in camp. Like he really kind of got deep into it. So we would just share the Bible back and forth, reading and studying it. And those are some verses that he wrote down just for inspiration for himself.

And something interesting was, obviously, the Bible wasn't written in English. It was written in Latin. So the understanding when you started translating stuff, when you read a verse in Spanish versus English, kind of came through a little bit clearer. And then I had a copy of Don Quixote, Latin English. Then I taught myself to read Latin, which I can't read now while I was in captivity reading Don Quixote. So the windmills, motherfucker, yeah. So if you have time, you can do a lot.

Did you guys pray? Yeah. Not as much as Mark. Tom, I don't, Tom. Tom, no. But I think my view on the Bible, right, especially the New Testament, changed when I started reading in Spanish versus English. And I look at it as a moral compass, not to say that I always followed that moral compass.

I don't want to sit here and hold my hands up and look, man, you know, my closet. filled with skeletons. So I'm as imperfect as they get. But I think, and Mark and I would discuss this, especially the New Testament, if you take out what I call the fluff, maybe, and you go about how do you treat your friends? How do you treat your family? How do you live as a person? It talks about how you, if you look at it, how you pay your bills, what kind of neighbor you are, What kind of brother? What kind of caretaker? It's just a simple moral compass for life.

If you get through some of the stuff that's a little more, I don't want to offend anybody here that's a little more, I call it a sales pitch, maybe a little more, maybe we're not talking about somebody being in the belly of a whale, okay? Maybe we're not talking something that's on a threshold for somebody that's hard to captivate. But when it comes to the basics of how you should live and conduct yourself, That's what I think the strength is.

And I would say Mark was a little more deeper into it than I was, for sure. But it gave us, it gave us a, I don't want to use the word comfort. Kind of a clarity about stuff, if that makes sense. Who gave it to you? I can't remember, did the guerrilla give Mark the Bible first? I don't know if he got it from the guerrillas or I'm not sure. I can't remember I mean that's interesting

it's a guidebook right for what's interesting is I mean they're holding you in captivity they're given a woman a C-section

in the jungle and they're reading the Bible I don't think I don't think I don't think that many of the guerrillas were reading the Bible.

I think some were, but they finally got it to Mark permanently. And I don't know where it came from. I can't remember. But Mark carried it, and it's his. You know, we shared it, but Mark carried it. And I don't know if did Consuelo? Did she give it to Mark?

One of the hostages? I can't remember where he came from. But, Yeah, it was a strengthening for sure. There's no, not about that. It's interesting how people convince themselves that they're doing the right thing. But I remember when I lived in Medellin, went to this church that the Sicarios, the assassins, would go pray at before they do a hit. I know.

It's like, never occurred to you not to do the hit? I grew up in a Southern Baptist family. My grandmother was a fire and brimstone Southern Baptist. You were going to hell for anything. But I think that my father was a student of history, primarily really the Civil War, a little bit of world history and world religions. And he always would say it's not, I'm trying to remember. remember how to say it right? Basically, he didn't like how man distorted the word from the

Bible. He wasn't a fan of organized religion. He thought, well, you see these mega-churches now how they really just, it's a money issue, right? It's not, it has nothing to do with what the scriptures really say, I think. You know, like what are the things about the big televangelists and their private jets, can't fly them back with the heathens. Come on, man. You know, so just look at the book of Eli, the movie, right? The bad guy knew that could be used to control everything. There's the Bible. So I think, like you're saying, it can be used in bad ways it can be used in good ways you know i mean i'm amazed and my wife and i speak about this a lot um at the things that people are capable of doing and they think they're okay they're totally okay

with it you know it's scary stuff you know and i i uh i don't know but you have to remember i mean Latin America is a, it's a Catholic continent, right? So do those guerrillas that were probably brought up in very humble places and ingrained by their parents, going to any little village, it's got a church, right? The church is a big part of it. Can they totally escape that upbringing? I don't know.

You know? I mean, I never really thought about that in captivity because we didn't really have a time to really engage with them on that level but I'm sure you just have to think that some portion of them can't escape that upbringing

yeah you know but the communist salesman will try to erase it well they get them young it's an indoctrination right well you know the little communist manifesto

it's only about that thick I don't know if you've ever read it and and Milton handed me the manifesto one time and he can't really read. I said plus value, marks, angles. He goes, you read that? I said, yeah, I did a book report on it once in junior high school, man. Yeah, I read this. They were like, oh, you've read it.

Yeah, I read it. What do you think of? I said, it doesn't work. It's a pipe dream. And I started reading back to him, and he's like, you can read in Spanish? I'm like, yeah. I'm not a doctor, but I'm not a, you know, but the level of, you know, people that are, I don't know if it's right to use the word ignorance. I don't think that's maybe the right word to use, but a person that's ignorant can really be taken advantage of pretty easily if you're smart enough to do it. And so that's what I see much of what the young guerrillas were, basically just sold a bill of goods and brainwashed you know yeah yeah how often me you guys chained up there's really not until the

third year i'd say two and a half the third year that we got into it that they started chaining us regular and um before that they put uh 550 cord around our necks and they have this thing um that goes on it's a knot just a harness that they make that goes underneath your arms and around your neck and there's just a hangman's not on the back. So you're walking in front of your guard through the jungle. And if you try to run, he's got the 550 cord. He just pulls it that chokes you out. You can't do anything. That was much more comfortable than the chains. You know, the chains were when times were getting desperate. And Mark actually figured out. We figured out how to break out of the locks with a

fingernail clipper. The cheap Chinese locks were so terrible you could just run the tumblers enough and they'd open up. So we'd open them at night and kind of undo a link so it was a little more comfortable to sleep. So it would be all the time.

What's that? So you were chained all the time? At one point, yeah. Shit. Yeah. Just dependent. I mean, they'd come and take the chains off or put the chains on, you know?

Yeah. I've got about six inches of my chain and the lock that I use for paperweight on my desk. And there's some places I've gone to speak. I'd love to brought it here or whatever. I don't want to risk losing that. I get it. You know, I'll send you a picture of it when you get home. And the worst thing it sucks, it's a Chinese lock, so it's big and heavy. It's not like a nice little master lock. It's worth of shit. Damn. Yeah. What about holidays? I mean, what would Christmas be like? You know what they celebrate it. But you got to remember in Columbia, the

Big holiday is not Christmas, it's New Year's. And so they bring in candy, they bring in liquor, and I'm a drinker, but I wouldn't drink in captivity because I was scared about what I would do. And I remember Tom, one time getting liquored up on this cheap Chinese wine, he put an ass cussing on the commandant in that camp. We're like, you're going to get shot. He's just standing there just cussing his ass out, man. What he was, he'd had, just, oh, you know, like it was, it was from China, and this stuff was just horrible.

And so, and then they have Aguardiente in Colombia, everybody drinks, I couldn't, fuck, worse stuff in the world. But they would, for New Year's or the holidays, they would bake breads and cookies, if we're in a place you could do it, and kind of, like, throw us a little, you know, give us some extra food and things. Really? You know, strange, strange, strange. Wow. Well, Keith, let's take a break. Yeah. When we come back, we'll get into the rescue mission.

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Do us a favor and tell them it was from this show. All right, Keith, we're back from the break. I want to get into the rescue op. All right. How it went down, what happened, as descriptive as you can. Okay, a little outline on the rescue. I went back in the FARC capturing us, open the door for the U.S. government,

especially in telling us I to buddy up with the Colombians, right? And they helped them rebuild their intel system. They did a lot of stuff. They lost stuff. But what happened with the rescue, we had an enlisted guy, and he had a suggestion. And it was about communications.

And the way the FARC handled us, and this is something we don't do anymore, and I worked on it afterwards, we don't HFDF, I-F-D-F, direction, fine, radio signals. So every FARC group that we're with had an HF radio. They'd use an extension cord they'd cut up and go string an antenna, because it's got to be long, and HF waves are much longer, and they would talk, all right? and they would talk to the commandantes run by the secretariat, and the secretariat would talk to our guys, and they'd say, you guys move here, you guys move there, they had their code, right? But that's how they handle our movements.

Or they would send a person in a certain area and just, you know, paper to paper. And I remember Cesar, who's in the first front commander, he's in the Supermax. Now he said, can you guys? everything? I said, yes, sir. He said, what's the best thing for me to do? Just write an order on a piece of paper and send it to my guys? I said, that's what I do. And so, the official story goes, which is true, I believe it was a sergeant that he basically said, hey, folks, why don't we cut off the communications link? Let's talk to the secretariat, to the commandantes, and pretend we're the guys that have the hostages, all right?

And then let's talk to the people that are holding the hostages and make them think that we are the secretariat, right? Just cut it. And then we'll just tell them and let the hostages go. No shit. That's a simplified version of what happened. So they broke the comms link and they started talking to the bosses because you've got to remember they listen to them every day.

These analysts knew who the individual people were, what was going on, and they basically broke the comms link and then made some experimental moves with us to see if we'd follow the orders. And they found out that they had broken it successfully, and that was what was going to morph into the rescue. And you've got to remember, well, you can't remember stuff I've talked about here. Every little small group, the commandante of the group will have a girlfriend, and she's the radio operator, right? So even in camp for years, I would hear other groups talking if the radio was up and be the same voices and the same names. So essentially, it was just a really good intel spoof by, I believe it was a Colombian sergeant. I know it was in the list of it, I think it was a sergeant that did that. So the story and the debrief that we got was we were moved a few times, and then our guys were told that they were going to take us.

and turn us into the Secretariat. Now, here's what was interesting. During that time, President Rebae let it be known publicly, and this was part of the spoof, that they were going to allow the Red Cross to come in and get access to us and assess us. They were going to allow the FARP to do that, and that came out in the news.

So then our guys who were physically holding us who weren't talking to their bosses anymore, like, oh, shit, this is true. We're going to go turn these folks in. They're going to see them. So I think it was one of really the best Intel coups ever. Wow. It's a really interesting story. It's slick.

And then it... So they were basically playing HQ. Yep. That's what they were doing. And then in the international news, in the news, the president's saying, hey, we're going to let an international commission come in. and have access to the FARC and the hostages to check them out. So the FARC we're going to get recognition also politically.

It was brilliant. Where we were rescued at, it was kind of funny. It was basically a whorehouse. It's what it was. So you have what's called a Raspachine, and they're the guys that pick the Coca-Leaves and the women, right? They're going to pick them. So we were being moved and hearing this news on a river.

And all of a sudden, we're seeing other FARC members, which we were never exposed to anybody who was a deep secret, where we were and who we were. And next thing we know, we end up in a coca field, giving us Coca-Cola, they brought us blue jeans and shirts and stuff from a store, and they're like being happy with us, and the whole group is moving to the coca field. And next to the coca field was just basically two big cabins.

One looked like a bar where there were some pool tables right there in the jungle. And another had all these beds in it. So, Wancho, my buddy who's a major, had enough time to go from lieutenant to major and lieutenant colonel in captivity 10 years. There's all of these mattresses in this jungle bordello, man, with plastic. and we're like, holy shit, we haven't laid on a mattress in years. Everybody gets, you know, we're laying on a bed, and we're like this. And Wanchard goes, you know what we're laying on, don't you?

He goes, no, this is a whorehouse. I said, shit. I said, are you kidding me? He goes, no, Keyes. What they do is the Raspicini's come in here, and they pay them to pick the leaves. Then they set up a cheap bar, and they bring in these girls, and basically they get their money back. They're paying it for them. So we were like, well, you know, cover the mattresses of plastic.

We haven't been on a mattress in years. We're sleeping good. So everything gets lax all of a sudden. Guards are there, but like they're, you guys want some soda? Like, when do we get a Coke or cookies or extra food and all this shit? And we're out in the sunshine. We're not undercover. And I was like, we're out.

We're uncovered. And other FARC members were coming through and they were looking at us and we're like, something was going down, right? We didn't know. And we had staged on the real. farther down about I don't know how many miles for like a week and they were bringing this blue jeans and tennis shoes and shirts and all this stuff and I'm here I told Mark I'm not taking any that stuff but Tom took a nice set a nice shirt on nice set of jeans because he goes

my wife hasn't seen me in years I just want to look presentable to my wife you know makes me want to cry because he's like he just I just want to you know so everybody's but we're like Want coffee? What do you want? I mean, so we're in this place for a couple days. And I go out, I hadn't seen sun forever, and I take my shirt off, and I just basically got a pair of underwear on, and I'm sitting in a chair and a sun, just cooking like a clam. And we're all, what's going on here?

And right across the river is another cocafea where the helicopter sat down with a little house. But we have not been out undercover for five and a half years. There's no, we're not hidden, we're in the open, you know, they're talking on the radio to each other. And I'm like, what, what's going on? We knew something's going on, but we didn't know. And we had heard news, us also, that we're going to be able to get seen by some people outside the guerrilla group to check on us, get messages to our family. So there's an air of expectation.

And one thing that happens in captivity, any little bit of hope, man, is like filling your gas tank. So they come in, tell us that more, just to make sure we're packed. And one thing they did is they took our rucksacks from us. And we just had little bags, nothing to carry, nothing big. And they come over, and the death knell for us was here in helicopters. It was terrifying, right? Because we knew that's a disembark, infill, whatever. So they get us up one morning, and they put us out there.

Everybody get in a line. Everybody get in a line. And there's a guerrilla hostage, a guerrilla hostage. a guerrilla hostage, and the commandante goes, hey, folks, if you hear helicopters, don't worry, it's cool, there's no problems. I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? Mark and I are looking at you other,

we're just trying to process this, right? All of a sudden, here they come. Delos. So we see the MI come overhead. Just doing a circle. Nobody's, there's no panic. There's no anything. Other guerrillas were there standing around watching us

that had never seen us, ever before. So we're like, holy geez, what's going down here? And did they look like red cross birds? There's been a lot of criticism about that? Yeah, they did. White and red. I get it.

And I'm glad they did. So they go down and get us in the canoes and we cross the river and we go up into the coca field. And we're all standing there. And there's a film of us. There's a film online of this going down. To me, bar, we're all talking. So helicopter land.

while we're all standing there and a fake news crew gets out. We're like, you know, and the lead Colombian officer from the operation and you got to make this is all volunteer, right? So you just had a handful of guys and a woman who was a nurse,

a Colombian, was she naval or army? I can't remember. A woman married with kids volunteered to go in as a nurse. They're all in civilian clothes. I think the pilots all they had was a pistol stuck in their boot. That was it. They were on their own, man.

If this cover was blown, everybody's dying. So the crew walks up and starts interviewing Cesar, the commandante. And Gauphes is there. And we're all like, what's happening? He walked away with the commandanté, Philip, and they came back, and they had large zip ties. which we'd already been trained to break out of, right, but still. So I said, man, look at that.

So some of the Colombian soldiers said, you're not putting those on me. A couple of soldiers said, I don't care, you're not zip-time me before the helicopter. So this one guy is in front of us, he's got red hair, and it's Mark and I and Tom, and he goes, he walks up to me, and he's almost in tears.

And I said, who are you? He said, I'm from Australia. So I grabbed his ID, and I said, this is bullshit. I'm about to blow the whole thing, actually, up with the unit. I did the briefing, the Colombian colonel was up there with the general, General Huckbocker. He said, yes, Stansel almost ruined the whole fucking rescue being a dumbass. So Mark gets next to me. He goes, I'm from Australia.

I said, you're, I said, Mark, you're not, you're not Australian, and you're not from Australia. and he gets nervous and he starts to almost cry and he goes look he said yeah you want to go home said yeah he goes i mean he was almost in tears he goes please come with us we're taking you home so i yelled mark or to tom i said tom put those fucking tie wraps on and we you know but we almost blew it right there because mark and i did not believe this guy which we smell them out in a second. And when we did the debrief in saw them again, and Carolina's like, man, you just terrified me. I didn't know what to say to you guys. But I said, put on the tie wraps. Once we put the tie wraps on, and you can see us, it's, you can, you can, it's on YouTube.

The video's there. I just say, Keith Stancil, fine after you're in the jungle. I didn't know who the fake news crew was, but they legitimately filmed. And we got on the, on the bird. And so they're taking us to certain spots. So we were psychologically profiled. Like who's going to be a troublemaker, who's not? You know, who's going to be a troublemaker, who's not? I was in the troublemaker category. A couple other guys were.

So I sit down for a second and I start to stand up in this Colombian soldier who was basically dressed like a civilian. He just grabs me, slams me in his seat. He said, here next to me, man. Next to me, bro. I said, all right. And so I broke out of my, out of my wraps. Just the same trick we're taught, you know, to do that.

I still start yelling at Mark. Mark's like, what are you doing? You're going to get in trouble? I said, break out of the wraps, break out of the wraps. And then Gophis and Cesar were supposed to give up their pistols. But I can't remember Gophis did, but Cesar kept his. And he's right behind us. And so it was just a flurry, right?

Everybody gets on the bird, and then they drop a, like, a case of beer off next to the aircraft for those guys and wave at them, and they pulled up the doors, and we just pulled up, you know. And I remember the guy looking at me next to me, he's, you know, a Colombian-SF guy, but he's obviously, and he's like, Colombian Army motherfuckers, right? So we just all jump on Cesar, because Cesar pulled a pistol. and Mark has the med kit next to him and they're yelling at Mark, take the needle out and stab them, stab them, stab him with the needle. I just happened to be closest to Sazar, so I got on his chest,

and that's what your assistant was showing my bloody hand. I mean, that got pictures. I just hit him in the head a couple times, and then the Colombian really took over doing a number on him. But he had his hand with a pistol, and he disarmed him. And it was 30 seconds, and it was over. I mean, it was just, it was over. And we're clapping and yelling, they're yelling,

Colombian Army, Colombian Army, police. And, I mean, the euphoria, I mean, I got to be careful not to cry right now. It's just incredible. And I look at Tom. I said, Tom, man, we're on this Russian piece of shit helicopter. I hope we get back. We were just, it was a high, it was a high, right? Then Gophis, the abuser, the nasty guy, right?

The old man, Sazar pulled his, he was going to go down fighting in the helicopter. Goph is just like a little bitch. just hit the ground, you know, and they pulled his pants down around his ankles. And he's in his underwear, his little bikinis, you know, and they're holding him. He didn't put up a fight at all. And he had been very abusive to Tom, you know, making Tom put 15 meters a chain, three, five meter chains around his neck and marching and threaten to shoot Tom one time. And, you know, and so it's a couple minutes into it.

Everybody's kind of calming down. We're all hugging and high-fiving, and they basically shot, I don't know, know what kind of sedative they gave to Cesar, and, you know, they're taking pictures and everything, and Tom goes over to Gophis, and Mark and I are looking, and he kneels down. I know, man, he's just going to, he's going to, like, and Tom's an old cremudgee, man. He grew up Cape Cod, Colhagen, paid for flight school that way. He's a grumpy old bastard, man. He, you know, he's just a no-shick kind of guy and stuff.

I thought for sure that Tom was going to do something to Cesar. He just leans over gets in his face. He taps on my chest. said, good luck. That was the coolest thing in the world, man. Wow. And then we're just, you know, then they flew us to a fob there. And we got off of that, you know, off the helo, got onto a 130, then we went into the

Capitol. And I remember, I'd like to know who the guy was. I think all the guys there, I don't think there were any seals. I think it was all Delta that was on the ground. right there for our bird I'm not sure big old dude had an American flag on I just walked up to him I just put my arms down you know I saw that flag and I just like I was like we made it we made it and um but when I saw him it was one of our people I wish I knew who he was he was laughing at me he's a big old jerk I jumped on his

ass and just hugged them and we're going home so we jumped on to 130 and you know we um they got us to uh basically another basin we jumped on erebe's uh air force one you know that flew us into bogota and we got off of that and then we got on the c17 and headed home but it was it was um i mean it's still emotional You know, I think basically four of my friends died looking for me. You know, Tommy didn't make it out. Farden Cruz didn't make it out, you know. So there's a little bit of, it's apprehension, maybe a little guilt, you know, in there that we made it and they didn't.

But I remember getting off them I, and they've got. Got Gophis and Cesar and cuffs on the ground, you know. And I was just like, wow. But as I'm getting off the helicopter, I look down and there's a pile of chains and locks on the floor. And this is sick. I recognized my lock. I'd been wearing it for so many years. So I grabbed my lock at my chain and get out of the helo.

I said, this is coming with me. So they cut off the majority chain for me. I got on the bird and, um, but how sick you recognize your own lock. Man, you know. And then it was off to the races, right? You know, um, it's like what you do here on your show, Sean, is you give a voice to the community. That's why I came to do the show.

Thank you. You know, where people can hear what's really going on. And we tried to give a voice, Mark and Tom and I, to the families of those that didn't make it out with us. And we, and it's a perfect example, the Colombian hostages did not have the same kind of support that Mark and Tom and I did. You know, we get on the C-17, the ambassador has given us a big hug, we got a medical team, FBI's there. now we're civilians and this is a new thing we're kind of the guinea pigs right so but we're doing a basically a d mission and some could disagree with that but we know we're who directed things and so there is my old neighbor on the bird i haven't seen in 20-something years

Doug sanders a former ranger and army helicopter pilot and he's in charge you know there in san Antonio the reintegration program for hostages i'm like holy shit And he was having dinner with a friend of mine I hadn't seen in 20 years in Savannah when the call got. He even tell him that he was going to be bringing us home, right? They're waiting on the opt to go down. And so it's a small community. And there's people are patting us on the back

and there's an Air Force crew and it was kind of funny. This Air Force, the flight engineer was on there and I wear 44 long in a flight suit. And they gave me a brand new flight suit. And I'm like, I got to wash it like 10 times, man. This thing is too stiff. And the flight engineer, I said, I still got his name tag. I said, man, is your flight suit broken?

And he said, hell yeah. I said, you want a new one? He said, yeah, we change right there on a bird. I put his on because it was broken in. And then they let us calm down on the C-17 for a little bit. But there was a lot of excitement on President Rebase Bird between the field and getting to Bogota and the Capitol. But when we came off the aircraft, we did.

didn't want to do this and be like the political scene in Columbia. We were hustled off and we rolled. And we were taken care of. And then you start catching up on the real news, right? Stuff that's been going on since you've been gone. And, you know, that's a whole other wave of reality. But the rescue, I've looked in a modern history military rescues. I can't find one that matches it without a shot. Not to say that there hadn't been other stuff that's gone down. Not a shot fired. Total coup. That a young sergeant, it was his idea, and then obviously support behind it. And the thing that I remember, the Colombians were in the back of a base jet, and they had us up front. And we had some people from our government.

you know up front and i'm like you got a map and i'm like why i said we know where all the groups are here and they had them surrounded and the government said you know what we're going to give you a chance to turn yourselves in we didn't go after them they could have swooped in there after the rescue and taken out half of the first front easy instead they just let them roll i don't understand it wow we had them in the old had them had them had them a few hundred hundred gorillas right there and they had the packages around our now ours i don't think would have participated but our folks were there our intel folks were there you know and they walked i don't understand that political decision at all we had them and so um the flight home

was uh you're just kind of open opened up the radars on, and two FBI agents I talk to occasionally every year or so, one Eddie, about once a year. They have a six-pack of beer, cold beer. And here's the joke, we're released to have one cold beer, and then it disappeared. So I always say, hey, you guys stole this from us on the flight home, whatever, but we had to get a physical on the plane, you know, check us out medically and bring us into San Antonio. and you're just everybody's talking to you and they're giving you news and it's just but what they

did have what they did have was pizza and we ate pizza and a wild-ass story was mark and i'll let mark correct me i might miss this mess this up mark made a comment in the morning of rescue said man you know what I want so what he goes I want some homemade chocolate chip cookies and I want pizza I'm sorry just brings a moment back right and so we get on the plane and we're like fuck I said dude you call this we had fresh pizza on the plane you know they come out of Bogota like Domino's pizza or whatever so the The pilot in command was a female. And I remember, if I correctly, there was also a training flight going on.

So I think they had an exchange pilot. That might have been a Marine. But she walks back and she goes, hey, guys, I get what? I don't know if you want these, but I get a gift for you. She's what? Here's a bag of chocolate chip cookies. Oh, shit. I don't bake.

I don't know why, but I bake these and I brought them with me. Wow How about that, man? Hmm. Hmm. The cookies were the shocker. That's why it was very intense feeling. That's why I tear up.

Here's your chocolate chip cookies. You like to bake? No, I just, for some reason, bake these. I think that was. Man, you better start thinking if I have to explain it to you. You know, I mean, so... God, Pat Nya on the back. Can you imagine that, though?

No. And it wasn't me. It was Mark. It was Mark said, yeah, I want pizza and chocolate chip cookies. I was like, dude. And then I remember an embarrassing thing, and my wife is upstairs watching, I don't know if I've told her this before or not. So I look like a bag of shit. I'm a skeleton.

You know, I'm 2.30 now. I was 154 or 156, me 154. So there's a flight surgeon. There's like a little room on the C-17 behind with two bunks. It's a crew restroom, right? So we each have to get checked out. So we walk in, there's this flight surgeon probably, just this young, very attractive female flight surgeon.

And she closes the door and she goes, you've got to strip down. I'm like, in front of you? I said, do you have a fat girl on the plane? I'm just, I'm sorry with her. I was like, you got a guy? Like, you know, you have it, like, you're just, you look like it back. I'm like, ma'am, I mean, really? Is this?

I was like, this is, you know, I'm wearing fucking bikini on the wear, like, a chunk of grass. I said, do you guys have like an ugly doctor or something, you know? So I was embarrassed, but I did it. I followed through, but it was funny. And I'm like, fuck, I'm wearing bikinis, rubber poos. I mean, that is, you know, and I didn't say anything to Mark. I said, Mark, just go on a flight search is in there, you know. He's like, oh, shit, you know.

You know, but, you know, and, you know, it was just a little embarrassment there. You're like, really? I mean, you know, like an old guy, you know, like an old 06th with a big beard or something, you know. You know, but, and then Doug was laughing about that. And so we get through this, and it's all happiness on the plane. and it's really kind of just a blur getting into Texas and we land and I remember General Huber getting on the plane and you know here's this big ass green beret and hey gentlemen and we roll to the black hawk and I just news cameras everywhere right and I'm like shit you know I mean it's

just everywhere news and it's dark you know but there's line up in the flight line and we get on the Black Hawk and boom, we popped to head over to BAMC to the hospital. And I remember just looking down at all the fast food places. This was growing across town going to go, I'm going to eat there, I'm going to eat there, I'm going to eat there, you know. And we got down on the ground and got into the general's, I don't know if it's a suburban or whatever, or was it a van or something. But I remember the sect-deaf calling him while we're riding over to the hospital.

I said, damn. I said, Mark, it's effective checking on us. I said, this hasn't really happened that often, right? So we get into the hospital, and they put us in a room. And it was funny as we're walking down to the ICU. These guys are in spacesuits, like to handle us. They don't know what to do with us, what we have or whatever, right? People are from behind the glass.

And each one of us, they kept us in the same room. They're worried about separating us. They had to evaluate us, right? They were worried about separating us because we'd been together for so long. But the TVs were on without the volume. So they were introducing stuff to us. And I remember I look up on the TV and Mark's next to me

and there's Arod is dating Madonna and then next to that headline is the three hostages are out. I said, man, we're famous. Hey Rod, Madonna. They're headlining with us. You had to laugh at that, right? You had to laugh at that.

But one thing that I was nervous about was you have a smell in the jungle, right? One of the first things is when the guerrilla captured us was their smell. You could smell them. That's a group, a big group, right? And it's just a smell of, you know, B.O. in the jungle and whatever you're there, and it doesn't work. It's a human, it's something you had to get used to. And I worried, I said, man, am I going to smell like that when I see my family?

I know it's a small thing but in the back of my head so we each get to take a shower and you know in the hospital you got that green disinfectant and I got in that shower man and you've got the handicap handle up there in the showers at the hospital

I wet a towel and I tied that towel I hadn't had a hot shower in five and a half years I bet I was in there an hour I turned the shower off I got out and I was like mm-mm I went right back in I took two showers I took two showers And so we all got showered, and General Huber comes up, and there was a black female colonel.

She was an Army doctor, and very kind. And so, Huber's like, gentlemen, this French restaurants open. He had all these really nice restaurants open at midnight for us. And I'm like, sir, I appreciate it, but I don't. I don't want that. He goes, what do you want? I said, I want a cheeseburger, fries, and a fountain coat. That's what I want.

To me, it's just the American meal. That's the thing I could think of. And that female colonel, who was a doctor, she just leaned over it, and she tapped me. She said, baby, I'll take care of you. Like it was like your big sister, the most kind thing in the world. And I said, a general humor, I said, you know, sir, this is pretty good. And he said, what do you mean? And I said, I can't remember.

when I was a sergeant, one a colonel and a general, we cooked me a damn cheeseburger at one o'clock in the morning, but I'll take it, you know? And they took unbelievable care of us, right? And so one of the guys that was a psychologist or counselor, because each one, we've got one sign, everybody's looking at us. He comes in, and I think it was Mark said, damn, that clone smells good.

And he said, you got any? He goes, I'll give you guys a bottle of clones, So he came in later. We each had like a bottle of colognes and we smelled decent and got us some clothes. And that was the part where the reunification started. And there'd be a lot of debriefing and, you know, head to toe, taking care of us. Even though we were civilian, we volunteered. And so DOD there in Bamsie took care of us.

And then we really started catching up on the news over the next 48 hours, right? But everybody in the hospital knew who we were. There's news trucks surrounding the place out there, right? So it's kind of odd that everywhere you went, people are like, you couldn't, you know, that's why I say the five minutes of fame. I was so glad when that was over. And anonymity is a big thing, right? Yeah, I'm sure you're learning that.

And unbelievable care for us and took care of us, housed our families, you know, and we had to reintegrate with the families, which that was a big deal. And that brings out a lot there. I remember my father, you know, Korean War Vett. He's standing there wobbling when I get to see him, you know. And I just, you know, I just put my arms around him. And he said, son, I knew you make it.

I knew you make it. But what do you do when you, You know, I heard a message from my son. My son's 6.7. He's 2.45. He's a big dude. He's a little 10-year-old when I got captured, you know, in a year and a half. And we got into the jungle with the politicians.

I hear a message from him. He's 11 years old. And he's apologizing for missing my birthday and Christmas. Like, I've done, he's done something wrong. It broke my heart in captivity. You know, but that was the big thing there I knew. You know, we were going to have a hurdle, an emotional hurdle for the first time to get passed. And it, I mean, even now, I'm not much of a crier, I don't think, but the emotion comes up and you just, that, you kind of relive that.

And we, you know, I think all of us handle it in our own way, right? You know, like the funny thing was is Mark's mom was the squeaky wheel, man. every news show, every politician in Colombia flying back and forth, riding President Reeve's ass and all. So he gave her a special presentation later on in D.C. And gave her citizenship in Colombia for being such a pain in ass trying to get her wife out. The president of Columbia, she actually broke his ass. That was good.

And, you know, a lot of good stuff to come after that. But it's five and a half years, man. I mean, you're like, wow. And I remember my son, I had heard about iPods, a little bitty one, but I've never seen one. And so he walks up to me and I said, what do you have? It's an iPod, dad. I said, give me that son of a bitch, right? I said, he said, dad, he said, he might not like all the music that's on there.

I said, I'm good. Don't worry about it. But technology, it also passes by. You know, do you remember back in the day a Motorola little Starlink, not the Starlink modern today, open to Flipflown, 60 or 90 characters of text, and I carried a big sap phone. And it was like cutting edge, right? You know, I remember my company coming to the hospital, bringing us each a laptop, and they're like, log in, and I'm like, well, how do I do that?

you know we had you know things had happened and um so it took a little time for the wheels to catch up you know i think and there's a picture here of tom on the phone in a restaurant that opened on a sunday that was closed and he's on the phone a guy that i want to give thanks to Chuck Norse. He calls us. He goes, hey, guys. And we're like, what? He goes, listen, a lot of people are going to be coming at you, dues and everything. And he knew the reintegration folks. He's a behind-the-scenes supporter, doesn't say a word, he said, my ranch is ready for you guys and your families if you need privacy. You can meet me there or not. It doesn't matter. You're welcome to come here. You're welcome to come here.

if you need a place, a safe haven. Wow. He wanted nothing out of it. Nobody even knew he called us, but the funny thing is, here is a funny story. I didn't know how much Mark like Norris is an actor. So as we say,

we're arguing about everything. We're laying in the jungle at night, and this starts a fucking war. Mark's talking about how awesome an actor, Chuck Norris is. And I'm like, Mark, he's a B movie actor. He's not an A movie. He said he's the shit. man and Tom goes

Tom's just needle in Mark right he goes shit that's all bullshit and Mark's no because I mean Norris is a legit Karate guy right it's legit Tom's out he says shit if I saw Chuck Norris I'll whoop his fucking ass right Mark's like you could never kick his ass

so this is they're yelling right Mark's like if Tom's like if I ever get to see him I'm kicking his ass well then on the phone holy shit Tom confess this in Norris, he said, Chuck, I got to tell you, I'm sorry.

So what I told Mark in the jungle for us, I saw you, whoop your ass, he said, I'm going to take that back. So, I mean, come on. Damn. You know, I mean, come on. And then, you know, the jungle the whole time, it was like, Tom's like, I could take Chuck of course.

You know, just silly shit. This is triggering me remembering stuff here, you know. But a lot of people that didn't want any any credit and Norris didn't want any it was basically a secret call through actually Doug Sanders who knew him and he's just going to make that offer and he said we'll get you out here get your family out here you guys need a piece you got all the time you want so I thought that was pretty we didn't accept it because we didn't need it but the fact the guy took his time out to make the offer and I found out later he's done a bunch of stuff doesn't say a word you know

I mean, come on, you know, that was. And then afterwards, laughing at Tom about apologizing to Chuck Norse about wanting to kick his ass. That was funny. Obviously, Chuck took it, was laughing, and that was a whole joke. I mean, I would imagine coming back is just a whole mix of feelings and maybe some new fears. I mean, did you have any fears about coming back, about maybe your family had moved on? I did not have any fear. obviously my significant other that I wasn't married to she moved on and got

married that was okay I'm that captivity buried to was my father and I so it repaired our relationship there some tragedies you know people dying I had a first cousin who was like a big brother to me really more and uncle And I wanted to see him and, you know, my dad asked to pull me the side and said, no, he got killed, you know, in a car crash, but, you know, truck crash. And then some of your friends, you know, some trap people had passed, you're like, oh, shit, you know, they were young. And then the whole thing where you guys were at, the whole thing in the sandbox, I mean, we weren't there watching it on TV every night. So the whole escalation of the war in the Middle East for us was like, holy shit. you know, to really see it.

Just like I give an example of the CEO at the time of Verizon, we made comments, something about cell phones or whatever, and just to knock at the door one day in this backpack with all this gifts and the latest and greatest, which then they called it a smartphone and wasn't compared to today, was from the CEO. And he's like, hey, welcome back. back guys, maybe this will help you a little bit. Some anonymous people did some things for us, not necessarily monetarily, right, but did some

things. You're like, wow, somebody's really thinking. And, but just trying to adjust to life and something that I was talking about, Heelow was difficult for me. So my parents have a house rented for me, and it's a big, a bigger, more beautiful home than I've ever lived in. And I roll in there. Can I afford this?

And my dad's like, yeah, you can afford it. And, you know, I mean, the best savings program in the world is get six years of pay, right? So, you know, our company took care of us. The son of a bitch about that thing was the instrument holding pattern for rotorwing aircraft. So the airport was right over my flipping house. So I'm laying in bed the first night and I hear a helicopter. And I sat up like, holy shit, you know, but then it became a joke, right?

It actually helped me. But, you know, the Army each had a psych force. Mine was a wonderful guy, and we had a wonderful chaplain. They really helped us. And so we were followed and we were helped. The company gave us six or eight months off, I think. And then they really took care of us. And we all had just.

jobs. And so Mark basically retired almost immediately. He did some security work for the company, but Mark was ready to retire. Tom retired a little bit too. I was his only one that really stayed on. And so, but just getting your feet on the ground, just trying to, you know, get up and turn on a stove, just look at, oh my God, I can turn a stove on or, you know, we used to urinate in a plastic. bottle. So if I sat up out of my hammock, I had to ask guard permission to urinate and he put a flashlight on you. You pee in a bottle. It's like, well, I can get it and go to the bathroom. I don't have to ask anybody. But this thing is ingrained in your head, right? So even though you

know you can get up and go to the bathroom or go to the kitchen or do something, you're still kind of like psychologically, you're just e-compressing. So there was a large adjustment on that. I can imagine. A large adjustment on that. And I just. thank God for the help that the three of us had compared to other people. And then we knew our future was going to change, right, for all of us. And I have not done, I can't remember the last time I did a television interview. But the first couple of years out, there was a lot of demand. And we wrote our book. We had to do like a book tour and stuff like that. And then, you know, it was the five minutes of fame.

And I will tell you this, when that was over, it was fine with me. I learned one thing, especially up in New York City and you're doing these talk shows and all this stuff, right? There are some people who just eat that up and they want to just be in front of the camera. They just want to. I want to support our mission and what we were about and our book and all of the that stuff. But I didn't really necessarily want to do that. And I'll never forget, I'm leaving

New York City. I go to the airport. And our book has just been launched. And they say number one, New York Times, no, it's number two. And the publishers are, you know, going back and forth and arguing. So I walk into a bookstore in the airport. And there's like a hundred of our books stacked up in this big, elaborate display, and there's a cardboard cut out of pictures of us. And I just stood there in front of it. Not a person who recognized me. I'm on the news. We're on the news.

You know, we're doing the, you know, I'm just standing there. I'm like, it's kind of funny. And I'm sitting there, people picking up the book and buying it and looking at it. And I'm really humbled. But I was like, wow. You know, and I never forget, I walked into a Target. And I didn't know that Starbucks is in Target or whatever. And I got a cup of coffee.

and this guy walks up behind me and he just whispers in my ear he goes, hey, bro, I got the coffee, welcome back. Wow. And walked away. Didn't want to do anything else, you know, so I was like, wow. And then I got rolled up into the whole basically, you know, reintegration for other people

and a guinea pig for the bird doll thing and, you know, there were other things that were happening. And then you're balancing your professional life. And my company gave me a lot of leeway, right, and a lot of support. And so it ended up working out. But I think just that transition back, and it was a few months in to where, you know, it was just a lot going on. I mean, you go to a, I was delivered some.

my parents' house first, right? We come off a private jet and there's a security team and there's there must be 50 news trucks out there, right? And so I ask everybody, I said, hey, I'll send my daughter, my son out to talk to you. I just need a little downtime. But you can talk to my kids. So they interviewed my children and I went in with my old man and I sat out back with him by the pool and just, you know, he had that clarity of thought, kind of telling me, what I needed to do, and looked outside a couple of hours later, the new trucks were gone. So the security guy from our company actually drove us. I don't know what it was to get.

Oh, I know what it was. Wendy's Chili. My dad and my son would always make it around my dad like Wendy's Chili. So we went to get that, and when we came back in, there was a reporter. Her and her cameraman were there. But the van was closed up and all. then they said hey we don't want to put a camera on it we just want to just give you hug and thanks and they left i thought i was very human of them to do that but that's a lot of stuff right i mean

for you sean taking your show to where it's gone right a transition where nobody knows you you're in your garage doing your thing or whatever then it's like hey can i have a little space or a little piece or everybody wants to touch the magic right and i don't fault them for it but you know how many touches can you get before they start stripping stuff off you, right? So where's your responsibility, kind of tell your story and support, but then keep this straight? So I think we did a good job of it. You know, we're all healthy and happy, and, you know, Tom's up in Tennessee. So he's got a little cattle farm, he's raising cows, and I think his son's up there with him.

We don't talk to Tom as much. I mean, every few months we check in or whatever. Mark lives, you know, less than an hour south of east of my wife and his wife and him were close. One of the seventh group guys retired down there, CW5 and a couple of my peers, you know, that weren't so common. All are close, and we've got a good network of friends. But, yeah, it's been, this has really come to do the show, was kind of a reawakening of sense where I were, and I know after this interview is done, stuff's going to pop into my head that I remember. But, you know, I think we all came out okay.

You know, we always said, and I told Mark and Thomas, I said, look, we're, we're affected. We just don't know until we get home, right? And I don't think anybody, I think everybody came out good, you know. Our lives are changed forever. I think in the long run, this was a gift for me. But it's enabled me to do some things otherwise I wouldn't have able to do. I don't think so by the odds. But I wouldn't go back through it for anything.

You know, and we have to forget some people didn't make it out. And unfortunately, world's upside down, right? So some of the stuff that I did to support Sear when I came back and go talk to DOD folks in active duty was just a win for me as if I can give them anything. that may help them if it happens to them or somebody else, it's a win. That's why. Just doing the show is just to give back to the community, you know, what you're already doing, you know. What was it like to see the twins? You know, my father was the hardest.

The twins were kind of emotional for a few minutes, but then they had brought so many toys. and gifts in for those two little kids, and they brought us into this room, they were just like, you know, hey, dad, you know, whatever. And their mom had put a picture of me by the bed, so they knew who I was. But it was, whether with my children,

the twins, my father, any of my family there, right, I could only take about 10 minutes and I had to get out. It was the, I'm looking for the right word, the energy overwhelming overwhelming and they told us that you know and when i walked into to see everybody i was very happy but then it got to where i almost couldn't breathe and i had to roll out i had to do it you know over the next day or so i had to take it in and just chunks and pieces and you know

the psych was there saying this is totally normal you're going to be overwhelmed and we were you know And I remember the first night having my own room being by myself in my room in the hospital. Just laying there kind of breathing, you know, nobody around you. Solo for the first time in years, I was able to kind of decompress, you know. And I remember talking to Mark the next morning. Our rooms were too far apart and said, how you feel? He said, yeah, man, it's a lot, right? It's a lot.

So, and then, you know, the reunification with your family, then the reintegration process. But something that really shocked me was one of the Sykes said, hey, Keith, the guys in the burn unit want to see you if you guys would make time for them. Bamsey has an unbelievable burn unit for paraplegious, everybody, all wounded veterans, right? And so I'm like, okay, let's go see them, right? They saw us on TV, they know we're in the building. These guys have lost arms, limbs, eyes, you know. And as we're rolling in there, there's this kid, and he was a guardsman. He was like a spec for.

And he's in a wheelchair with all four arms and all four legs. And there's screws down every single leg and every single arm, right? You guys, you came. You guys came. We went waiting for you to come, and his mom was with him. He goes, man, I'm sorry for you guys. I hate you guys, had to go through it. And he's like this, you know.

And I said, how are you? He was an IED. His truck got hit by. He said, I'm good. He said, well, I said, because I'm going to walk. And he didn't, he said, once they get all these fractures done, he said, I'm good. He said, the guys inside aren't. And when I actually went in the unit and we just started shaking hands or stumps or, you know,

and saw those guys. that's when the war set in like oh this stuff been going on now you know and to see the care that those servicemen were getting you know in there tier one just tier one but to see i remember the next day we had um a tour of the facility and they had a wave machine right and there was a sergeant in there, young black guy, I think he just had one arm. And he's the fucking wave machine instructor. That bitch got on a surfboard. He's on his stumps and he's like, what are you doing?

He's got a purpose, right? He said, I'm rehabilitating people. Right? And just like his attitude and everything, he had, I can't remember. I think he was below the knee and totally one arm. He got up, put on, he's talking to us. then another guy's in there he's a shooting instructor

and the one guy was burned over like 80% of his body just head to toe and his attitude man was like holy geez just like I'm looking at all these people

I'm like we didn't go through shit you know so to see what all those men and women went through right and they're scarred forever, right? They're going to adjust the way they do things forever. It was very humbling.

I was like, we didn't do anything. You know, we didn't do anything. But I'll never forget the kid. He says, Young's back four, and he's like this. And he's like, no, I'm good. When they get this shit out, I'm walking fine. I'm like, okay. You know, he said, they're waiting for you.

And his mom was thanking us for taking time to talk to him. I'm like, no, man, that guys, you know, talking to you guys is what it's about it's amazing what the human mind can overcome you guys look at that i i think five years yeah yeah it's uh it's it's amazing what so many those people just went through but to come back to everything that had been happening was you know an eye-opener and i open her and i open or, you know, just taking for granted, getting in your truck and going to get in a burger. How long did it take you to reintegrate?

I don't know. I saw a counselor probably for a year, a transition from the Army counselor to civilian counselor who was more like checkups. I think we reintegrated pretty quickly within months because we were so busy. right and so we were going and visiting places speaking legal stuff started to happen so we were you know I had to find a house and everybody had needed furniture and clothing and I mean start from scratch right so there were things that kept you occupied if we would just come back sitting in a hospital somewhere I don't know what would have happened but I think we all

Now, we all had challenges. You know, I wasn't married, so I didn't come back to a divorce like Mark and Tom did. So for them, you know, they had a lot to take on personally when they got back. And they did amazing. But you have personal challenges and your professional challenges or what are we doing or we have a job. And, you know, it sounds funny, but it wasn't funny to us, you know. So, I mean, worrying about, of course, we had to. a job, right? But we didn't know what's actually all gone on. So I remember my father sent me down

by the pool the night that I got back. He goes, take a deep breath. You got no more worries. He said, just let it unfold. You're okay. Just let it unfold. That my father saw from A to Z, man. He just, he was like that. And it did. And it was bumpy. You know, some parts are, I'm saying it was like, oh, kumbaya, we're all dancing. in a rose garden. But we had good support around us. And we had each other. And we had an amazing legal team. You know, we've got two attorneys. One's never been in the military. And one is a 160th plankholder. So I told Mark and Tom, because I'd been through something with our attorneys before with one in particular when you know we saw the guy shot down there he basically um

I was telling a friend of mine is a retired 75th regiment guy about this and he said oh my brother is the attorney representing him down there so I met him like a day later and I was doing some other stuff he helped me with and so when I was in captivity I told Mark and Tom I said I don't care it anybody does, but this is the guy I'm going to. And I'm not going to mention them now, but people in the community know him, and he's a genius. And his other part that was civilian, it's all like brilliant too. So those two guys are taking care of all three of us. And you had somebody that had your back, but I told those guys that said, that's, I don't

care if my family's done anything, this is who I have confidence in, it's who I'm going with. And they've made a difference in our lives. But they're patriots, too. So, you know, kind of funny in the community, your lead guy is a 160th plankholder. And then the other guy was a college swimmer, U of M, brilliant, and those two took care of us. But like I said, see, we had this team of people that just kind of fell in around us that were there to help us 24-7. Man, that's good to do.

And it made a difference. What happened to the guy that took the M4 and said he was going to kill anybody that rescued you with it? So the last time I saw him, he had the M4 around his chest, and he's all proud, and he rides off with these ponies. Right short guy, probably 5'9, been a big fat belly. And so we're with the FBI. in their offices in Miami. And we had a wonderful female agent down there who sees family care.

Like, that's what she does. You know, she looks after victims, crime victims. The name's Dahlia, a wonderful woman. And then Eddie, one of the guys who's on the plane is down there, and he goes, let me show you something. He brings in the M4. There's a hole through the magazine well. And I'm like, that's my M4.

Obviously, Mill Group. It was signed out for Mill Group. He goes, yep. And I said, where'd the hole come from? Your boy, when they went in to bump his camp, he said, that's where he took around. So for me, to see the import there with a hole through the magazine well that the fat guy was carrying, you know.

I was like, I told him I wouldn't want to fight our people. And I told him, I said, I don't want to fight our guys. Why do you? It was bravo, right? And I asked him if I could keep their rifle. And obviously it's evidence, so I can't keep it. But I did a right letter. You know, I wish they could demil it or something or let me have it.

I mean, you know, put it above the fireplace. But that's a heck of a story, you know. Damn. But, yeah, I guess he, you know, I guess he had it on when he went down. Man. And you went back to work. Yeah. Yeah.

You were on the bird domenish. Yeah. So I was a guinea pig. So the reintegration folks, along with other government folks, were always training to bring him back and others. I was used with reintegration guys as kind of a guinea pig, like, how would I react? If you and your buddies come in to get me, what do you think I'm going to do? So it was all a profile issue. And what I learned about what really happened with Bird Doll, it wasn't the story that the news was painting.

Did he do something wrong? Yeah. I'm not agreeing with the way it went down. But real quick, why don't you paint the story of what the media was saying? Well, he basically deserted, right? Which he did. He rolled up and he, you know, he rolled out. I did not learn until a reintegration, and a few soft guys who were in reintegration that handled his reintegration, he had some legitimate concerns about what was going on.

And I don't think that they were handled correctly. And Doug calls me one day from Bamsie and said that Bo had handed out a few gifts to everybody. And I never met him face-to-face. I was just a interview guy. Now I interfaced with his parents. And so he said he brought us all a compass to give us, so we never lose our way, right? Some kind of, you know, kind of deep stuff there. And those guys who are hardcore soft guys, their job was not to judge.

Their job was to reintegrate. And I always told everybody the mission there, although difficult, because the actions that were taken, he's still got to stay mission focused, right? So I remember I was on CNN doing an interview, and Cuomo asked me, Chris Cuomo asked me about Bergdahl and what he'd done. And I said, it doesn't matter. And they saw what, I said, our job, he's got a green ID card is we bring them back. then we judge them for right or wrong.

Not the Taliban, not anybody else, but we judge them. And I saw my guys that had to actually friends of mine care for this guy. And they come from your community and all, but then they also know what went down. Tough mission for them because they took a lot of criticism, right, or a lot of heat. A lot of people did not care for what he did, understandably so. And I'm not justifying what he did. But imagine being in a lot of criticism. those shoes. But I believed in the reintegration mission that I don't care if you're a mass

murderer or you're innocent. We judge you by our standards here, right? Guilty or not guilty? And so I thought that was an important mission to support. Now, I really didn't think it was going to take as long as it did to get them out. And I remember getting a call, and I have to be delicate on this from the green side. And, you know, his father was kind of living vicariously through his captivity. And, you know, they wanted me to do the first initial talk. And I had a phone call with his mother, his father, and their attorney. And it was, it was interesting. It was interesting. And I don't want to criticize anybody here. I don't think it's necessary, you know, but there was a reluctance on the active duty side to engage with them. And I understood why

once I spoke with him. But I remember there was a funeral and he was standing around a bunch of active duty guys who were at this funeral. Nobody even knew he was. So, So I think that I've heard a lot in the community about how many people died looking for him. I think that's been exaggerated. And I'm not demeaning any of that. But that's the truth. If you want the truth, Sean, I'll just, that's the truth. I just remember, we'd do a workup.

I'd fly out. I was the guinea pig, and you had your HRT folks. You had your guys from the different places. And those guys, what's the plan? What do we do, we get them out? How do we do that? And the same with Levinson and I. Iran, we did the same thing with him. And I just thought it was very difficult to see two of my

friends have to take on that mission, right? Because everybody's supposed to hate this guy, right? You're supposed to ease a dessert or we hate him, all this stuff, right? Well, their job was to look past that. Get this finished and then command can take over with what they're going to do. And it was tough. It was tough. And one, Doug Sanders, God rest his soul, he's deceased now. But he He, you know, he led that up with some other guys and, you know, guys I have tremendous respect for. But to be put in that position, right, you're going to catch a lot of heat, but you still have to do your job. So, yeah, I, I don't agree with what happened at all. I don't support what you did at all.

But I can understand the mindset. and that's another casualty of war, right, in a sense. People are put in extreme positions and they do extreme things. Not everybody handles it the same way. I don't think he handled it correctly, right? But you ask me, right, hey, are you willing to be a guinea pig? Would you come back? And we, well, of course, that's the mission.

My mission is not the judge, right? Right? Your folks, hey, whatever I can do. I still believe I made the right choices. I think the guys that reintegrated him did an unbelievable job. Would I want to be in their shoes? No. No. I mean, would you? No. But given that mission, right? So, that was pretty dicey. And, you know, a lot of people paid a price with that. I do think it might have been exaggerated. Some of the stories I heard did not fit with what I saw, but why argue about it, you know? And I was in no position of authority either. I was a supporter, right? Didn't make a rat's ass what my opinion was.

I wasn't a decision maker, right? Yeah. But people who I greatly, greatly respect, you know, from the soft community, I would say, man, but they did their job. They did their job. And I respect them for it. But, you know, how hard was that? Because that was a bad deal. Yeah. You know. But, I mean, I don't know. I just said, you want me to go, do this? I'll do this. You know, I never, I never thought my position was to make a call. They needed somebody to do something for. And like I said, I was just a guinea pig.

That's all I was. You know, and then a couple of debriefings with some folks, how would I react? What would I do? What do you think? Well, all I can do is give you my opinion, right? Another person may do a totally different thing, you know, but the effort, and this is what I do respect. And this is what I think maybe is a better answer to your question. The effort that we put to get an American back, regardless of what he's done, is what makes us

different. It can be distasteful, and I know it was for many, right? But that's what separates us. That's what makes that flag different than other flags. And so I always stood by that, you know, you got a green ID card. We'll bring you back. What happens after that? That's on you. But it also says to me, how about the future people? Hey, if we'll go to this effort to get that person back, for sure, I'm coming back, right? If you were rolled up other other circumstances, So there's a bigger message sent there that I believe in. It's a damn good point. You know.

That's a damn good point. You know, and I'm not saying to agree or not agree, I'm looking at a bigger picture. Yeah, I know once, when those Colombians are said, we're glad you're here, why? Because Americans are never abandoned. You know, there was a, was it a year and a half ago? And I haven't followed the Africa thing too much, but didn't we rescue a female American missionary was it your one of your some of your guys was a group of seals or was a unit but in a British guy right and I don't know if you know the people that were in on that or whatever and

but I saw the guys interview and he said you know what I was happy about he said what he said she was in America thank you America that was my biggest hope I don't know if I had that story confused but I was reading about it not too long ago but I thought it was an Africa wasn't she a missionary or whatever There's been a couple. Yeah. But his interview, all he did was thank the U.S. armed forces. That's all he did.

He couldn't say enough about us. He goes, if it would have just been me, shit, I'm still there. So that is, I think, I think, the message that I would want to send, that no matter the what, we're going to bring you back. Because that means others are going to be. believe in us and that we're coming to get them right you know so i i think that overrides what he did because it's not about him it's about us and what we do and it's about sacrifice it's a damn good message that i've never heard i just happen to be around there you know watching the whole thing

and played my little part but i believe in that message more than like how do i get justice to Mark and Tom and I really get justice? How do the people that were looking for me that died get justice? I don't have the answer. I want to get healthy. I want to have happiness. What is justice? Like if I killed every person to have me in captivity, is that justice? Would it make me feel any better? No. Surviving is my justice, but that's the definition for myself. So, unpleasant or not, I think we send a bigger message. Now, if I'm a family member that lost somebody that was doing an op,

it's probably not acceptable for them. But I'd ask that same family member, what if you got somebody else and goes down? It's a family member. They know we're coming. There was no win in that either. I don't believe. How do you win in that?

Right? no matter what you know we're going after them right we don't know what the price is we don't know who's going to pay but we're going and i think when you sign the dotted line you accept that responsibility right him wrong i mean shit john your show is all about what's right what's wrong right how do you define it so i don't know but i think our message that we send is most important. And my heart goes out to anybody that made a sacrifice on that.

I don't want to discount that at all. But I'm not making that judgment. Yeah. Does that make sense at all? It's a perfect sense. You know. It's an aspect I've never thought of. It's a bigger message in that.

I mean, and they're not all public. There was, I'll just leave it as a foreigner that was rescues. by our people, a less than a year after me, and was reintegrated, okay, through our own folks that I got to work with and, you know, some operators showed up and got him out and all he wants to be is a U.S. citizen with him and his family. And when I say a patriot and an appreciation, and I was only working with him for a little bit, mainly telephone calls, right?

Got to meet him and all, but he called me. I was really a part of a support network. I'm like, I called Doug, I said, Doug, I said, he goes, yeah, we do a lot of people. He said, we don't advertise it, right? And I said, what's he want? He just wants to be a citizen. He's the biggest convert ever, right? And so, you know, how many undocumented?

let's say or unadvertise of you and your friends done right so that that's a bigger message but now let's just say I had a spouse or a brother or somebody that paid a price during that mission to be pretty hard for me to stomach yeah if I even could yeah you know well Keith what are you doing now to keep busy uh my wife's says I'm giving fat. I retired about four and a half years ago. And so we lived out in Sarasota, and I love to hunt and fish. And my wife is a foodie, craft cocktail person, excellent cook.

I never enjoyed anything as far as traveling or eating. So she's kind of exposed me to that. So now I drink some foo-food drinks that I would have never drank before. and eat some food that I never ate before. You know, I never ate a salad. I was 54 years old. I never ate a salad until I met my wife. And so we travel, and we've got some real estate rental stuff that we dabble in.

You know, we built a few things just for rentals, but we are considering a move. Everybody's moved to Florida. Thank you. I appreciate you guys that, whatever, right? but we're looking at maybe moving somewhere a little more rural. We had some property up in Georgia that we just sold to my best rent a few weeks ago. Actually, it says S&S properties, and his last name starts with an S&I. He's a redneck genius.

He's a redneck that has a chemical engineering degree and had a third generation tow truck company and took it to a different level. So that's his logo. He came up with it. That was our LLC. I wear this hat everywhere. but uh gonna travel get a little healthier

and we just came back from a great fishing trip and you know whatever else she puts on the calendar you know joy in life as best we can as best we can

which is but that sounds negative no yes we are we are enjoying life it's funny though I'm 60 now and I don't feel 60 until I look in the mirror you know I imagine myself a different way And so it's kind of that time of change, you know. But I want to make memories now. We're in a position where life is good and we can make choices.

But I wonder, and I talk about my good friends of us, I said, can I make it to 75 before she puts me in an orange flag wheelchair and remote controls me around? Or will I make it to 80? But there's like, there's this physical window now, right? It's the fourth quarter. and I was on a mountain last year on a sheep hunt and I finished my sheep grand slam my mentor in the sheep world is 74 years old he was out doing me on the mountain right I'm a flatlander whatever but with some of the stuff that we do what's really been in my conscience now is how long will I be able to physically enjoy it now I don't think in a year or to him out

and I don't feel I know people doing a lot of different things but talking to my friend I'm like, my best buddy. And I said, no, Keith, it's, it's the fourth quarter now. Now, now how long it is or how good we do. But things start changing physically a little quicker as you get older, right? So we want to travel and we want to make memories. And I've been luckily, health-wise, I've got great health. I've been very fortunate.

But, you know, we've had a few friends that have died, you know. Someone we know now is just a few years older than me. just come up with a stomach cancer issue. You know, so at this age, things start to drop, right? And so I want to take this time while I can still do things physically. And I don't think it's running out in 10 years or anything, but the point is it's got me thinking different, you know. You're being through what you've been through, 1,967 days in captivity. Yeah.

no getting that back do you value relationships more than you used to oh that's a tough question um i don't think so those would be a little mercenary um i value a real relationship more than i used to well that's what i'm getting at yes relationship with your dad your son yes a real relationship yes life yes yes Yes. Those in the peripheral, it's a fact of life. People moving and out of each other's lives, right? And so, where's your circle? Where's your circle? You know, my problem is I have too big of a mouth and I'm too open. I don't think it's changing. I'm trying to, but let's see how that works out, right? My openness has caused. me it's cost me and you know I'm working on that I think my circle will only become smaller not that I don't like people or a social thing or making friends but you know it's uh it makes you kind of define is this a real true friendship or not or is this just something I'm with you casual I mean the way I think about it is you know if you had

24 friends yeah you're awake for let's say 12 hours a day you want to develop those relationships you can only give 30 minutes a day to each person but as your circle gets smaller

and you get more particular about who you care about and who you give your time to right Whittle that down to 12, then it's an hour for each person a day. Right. You water that down to 6, that's 2. Two. You know, and so, you know, what I've noticed through my journey is, yeah, everybody wants to be your friend. Everybody wants, you know.

And you've got to be careful because the relationships that really do matter, they suffer. because then you start divvying up time. Right. And nothing really grows. Right. But when you do whittle it down to what really matters, family, close, close, close friends. Yeah. For me, my team here, we're like a family.

I mean, when you can invest in the relationships that you truly value and they'll flourish beyond what you ever would have thought. Yeah, I think that, um, look, will take your position so you've earned a lot of respect in the community for what you've given back on your show probably some animosity too for your success

and you meet like-minded individuals all the time that if it was just Sean by himself no family no you guys are hanging all the time hey I'll go fish tomorrow let's roll life right starts to take up time which you're talking about

and effort so we're just do you focus your effort and it is it's just normal for people right uh to kind of want to be around certain things like we were talking about and you know um be a part of something but you got a whittle down where there's going to be real results you know because i know you know i know i've got and friends of mine, I would call them friends. We don't see each other very often, right? Not my close.

I got three very, very, very close friends, okay? But outside of that, there are people that I've met, especially through this captivity and everything, that are just awesome folks, man, men and women, that I have tremendous respect for. And if there was time to hang out on them or something, probably would. But I think maybe understanding, this is going to sound a little shallow, but I believe in it.

Loving yourself first so you can love those around you. Understanding what you're, you know, what you can manage and not manage is part of defining that circle in those relationships. And let's face it, time becomes a commodity also. And my turn 60 last year, my wife surprised me with a beautiful trip to Ireland. fly fishing for brown trout, which I wanted to do for years. And I'm looking around and my wife's with me and I'm here and just this gorgeous place. And I said, you'll never erase this from my head, this memory.

You'll never erase it from my head. So I want to focus on those in this second half, right? And you can't always please everybody, even though you may want to. then you get straggled out and then those that you need to be like yourself are dividing up your time and I think it's okay to be a little selfish I didn't say be unappreciated everything

but sometimes you know I went through something here recently my friend said to me my best friend goes it's okay to be selfish it's all right you know and sometimes you got to you know kick back and take care of yourself and I mean like how many people in the best way

especially with what you do. Hey, Sean, come do this. With the best intentions, right? They really appreciate you and what you do. Come, just come on, let's come do this. What kind of invites do you get, all this? You can't always just go do it. You know, and I would imagine for you,

the demands on your time now must be astronomical. I guard it very carefully. But you're growing something, right? And so I say I value relationships, but also just because of your family, doesn't mean you're more valuable than a friend is a true friend. So sometimes family can disappoint you more than your friends, right? And that becomes a challenge also because there's a deeper, you know, maybe love or connection there.

And that hurts worse too, right? It hurts a little worse. So, I don't know. I think about that now because in this time, in this quarter, where are you going to cut up your time to be? Every time you say yes to somebody, you say no to somebody else. So if you're saying yes to people that, not that they don't matter, but it's not going to go anywhere, it's a dead end, then you're saying no to somebody that you love and starving them of their time. And overcommitting yourself.

You know, that's when I'm in the past to be guilty of. And I'm trying to maybe when I make a commitment to something, does it have real value? Is that just being a nice guy that could be noble or whatever, it does that have real value? And so my wife has helped me with that. Say, hold on a second. Just, what are you doing? You got a good woman. She's got an instinct for that stuff.

But, you know, I mean, I can only imagine for you, you've become a known quantity now, right? What about those days when nobody knew who you were or when you pulled out of your driveway? Oh, I think about that. But this will all end one day. No, I know. I know. You know, the five-incent fame was funny. It's not real.

It's not real. I was on an interview. I think it was a good morning America. and we were doing a few talk show things and so I get an elevator and there's a I'm not going to throw rocks in anybody but she's left the country and she was she's over where I was fishing she's standing. Oh, I know who you're talking about. And she's standing there in front of me and she wasn't rude to anything, right?

And then Rob Lowe's there, right? he's just cracking me up and and uh i just see this throng of women man like there must have been a hundred women outside the studio rob rob rob you know and uh i looked at i don't i don't he'll never probably remember me i was on the show too whatever i said careful with that film we got caught you know yeah i was like you know but i i was just watching him and he was sincerely nice, right? But there was just this throng of all these women, of all ages, just wanted to get next to them and touch them, you know? And so you get to meet some celebrities, and I've met a bunch more or whatever, but man, imagine just going somewhere and being yourself, you know,

like, and I won't drop names here, but we mentioned one of my best friends and who his best friend is, right? And I said, what's it like when you go somewhere with him, right? And he's Cickeets, He's very humble, but, like, you can't move 10 steps without. And people don't mean anything bad. That's never going away, right? And now with social media and all this stuff, wow. Wow, but nothing's free, right? There's no free lunch.

That's right. My father always said, if you said fair or free to my father, argument was over. Nope, done. We're finished. We're not going to talk about this. Well, Keith, we're wrapping up the interview, but So I've got one more thing for you Yeah

You know, you've seen the show You see the majority of who I interview Right We talk a lot about reintegration after combat, after service Right What do you have? It's a big struggle throughout the veteran community I mean, suicides in an all-time high

Okay So what I'm going to ask is, you know, I've never met anybody like you. You've been through it. Five years, captivity. What advice do you have for people that are reintegrating? It's a network. It's a network around you.

I was surrounded, so was Mark and Tom. We were surrounded by people that were there to support us legally, professionally, emotionally, emotionally. Don't be the lone man on the hill by yourself, right? And I think especially type A's from this community tend to be that way. They don't want to accept help and recognize you do need help. So it's a network is the biggest thing. And my fear, so I'm set.

And I could go be on my own, I'll be okay, right? You know, my wife and I can just go off into the, into the distance and we're fine. What about that vet who is not set, right? That every day for the rest of his or her life, they'll put on, you know. On athletics. Yeah. Every day they'll have that physical challenge, right, of just getting through the basics in life. And what scares me is, as I called it the sandbox, right?

But as the war wound down, do the networks and the support for the vets start to wind down too? Because they're caring it for the rest of their life, the rest of their life. Well, when it's not 24-7 all the new fights on YouTube or on the news or whatever, and it's not in the public's eyes. Does the support, although not meant in a bad way, dwindle. So the recognition of what sacrifices these people have made, I think is important key to keeping the support networks going. Right?

When you see all this stuff on the news every day and they ask for a donation for vets, Oh, they're coming. I mean, you see an organization like Tunnel to Towers, right? It's created something long-term. Is our long-term care for our vets there? I mean, when I see illegal immigrants in a hotel with a check, a cell phone, I'm not trying to hurt these people, right? All the support, and then I see a homeless vet, and I'm like, what's going on?

Right? And then also the psychological side of it. Not only do some of our folks have to deal with the physical trauma, but the mental trauma, right? Is that support going to remain a priority? Is it five years after the war, 10 years after the war, 15 years after the war, is that still going to be there? That's my fear for people who have paid a price. And this focus on, and not trying to go political here, but this focus on immigration over people that, okay, protected the right for that to even happen. I think they should be front of the line.

I don't think the military is a place for social experimentation. I think the military is a place where it makes our country safe so we can have social experimentation. Right? and I just like your show does you keep the light on and I'm lucky not everybody's lucky so that's my worry personally for those folks is how does that stay relevant I think it's just natural that people start to see other things and move on and think oh we were in a war 15 years ago well that person still doesn't have any legs right there's We're still struggling with long-term health issues, physical, we don't even know about psychological, how can they make a living? What can they do? You know, so how strong is that compared to five years ago right now? I don't know. But I would say that's my fear, keeping the line on. And, you know, you see it, especially here with this, when it goes on. So I hope that we as a country can keep that going.

But it scares me. It scares me that those people will be forgotten after time. But they're living with everything that they have until the end of their time. You know, so some of these big organizations that have become well organized, you know, I like that. But, you know, I just don't know. You know, I just don't know. I mean, how do you feel about that? think that the support is waning with time or I think that there are some great organizations

out there that will continue to develop and do the right things unfortunately I don't think that's the government right but it's the how do I say this. It's the giving back to the community that's going to keep it alive. Right. Taking care of each other. That's what's going to keep it going. Right.

It's mentoring guys. You know, I got out, I quit contracting in 2015. That's 10 years ago. But I'm still giving back. I'm still coaching. I'm still bringing exposure to guys that have done amazing stuff. like yourself that can transform their business and there's a number of other organizations out there that do that right and so you know if you're asking you know what my advice would be it would

be to seek those organizations out exactly what you said a network build a circle that you can lean on yeah yeah yeah lead on each other except some help man except nobody's going to take care of us accept ourselves yeah that's it and you know and it's not just us it's our families that suffer too you know you know i've a couple of relationships that were just damaged just by by absence and so you know do those ever get back you don't know but um yeah i don't know sean i think uh keeping the light on isn't that norm that says that in the in the hotel thing hey we leave the line on for you right but the lights a beacon yeah and i think it's important And, you know, I like seeing folks, men and women that have come out and turn it into a positive.

You know, for me, whether writing the book or we wrote the book, I didn't write the book on, right? Or going to teach a class somewhere or to speak to a group of people. That's me being selfish, winning for myself, right? Just give it back. And that's a way to defeat those that at one time had me defeated. So that's, you know, that's where I'm at with that. And, you know, but we've got a lot, we've got a generation of really young folks that have suffered greatly. And they're going to need our support for a long time.

And I don't think they're looking for a handout. I think they're looking maybe just for a little leg up, you know. Yeah. And it is, it's, it's, it's tough to see some of the folks that, you know, are, you know, are, have gone through some things. I met a guy that's a wounded warrior when I was at Northler-Grooming, and he was a program manager. He was a Marine captain, and he was a Fallujah, big guy, but he had a limp, and he's getting on a playing with me. We had an RPG round, go through his, go through his die and not go off and get stuck. Right? And he's working for our company, totally fine. He has a little bit of a limp,

but, you know, I said, well, tell me some stories about there because he was on the first end ramping, wow, you know. He's like, man, I'm lucky. His ad to was unbelievable. You know, he's an officer, came back, whatever. And I was like, wow. Wow. You know, so when you see it firsthand, when he's like, hey, I'm one of the lucky ones, you know, because there's a lot of his guys and other people, I mean, they're never, you know, what are you doing? So, you know, maintain the respect for our service folks. And I, um, I like what's going on now, not to get political, political, but to shake up. And kind of, I would see it as a return to our core value of what we're about. Right? Not a social experiment, not a DEI experiment. I mean, here, we're here to do one thing, defend this country. And that doesn't get done with a quality of outcome and as noble as that might be. You know, I remember a cartoon years ago and it showed this little kid and he was kind of nerdy. And his dad was a little bit older and overweight. And he couldn't get on the football field. It was at high school. I can't remember why I married this. And his dad said, no, worry, son.

He goes, what? He's about 10 years. He'll all be working for you. Right? But we all have our strengths, right? We all work to our strengths. So I like seeing what's going on. You know, I mean, not everybody's smart.

Some people are stupid. Not everybody's good looking. Some people are ugly, right? But this whole, you know, hey, I don't even want to even see what my 40 time would have been when I was 18 years old, probably would have been that fast, right? I just wasn't blessed with certain things, but I did have other strengths. So I'd like to see that stuff erased and us, everybody be who everybody is and accept

who, what you can do and, you know, understand what you can't. I think that better prepares people for the future. I do too. You know, it's called a reality check. You know, the truth isn't always sweet you know it's it rarely is it rarely is well keith it was an honor to interview man man honor to meet you brother i really really you know i i uh welcome home thank you and thanks for the invite i hope i could you know do justice to your show it was awesome you got a lot of impressive individuals here, right, Alicia. You're a lot of them. Appreciate it.

Thank you for your being on that way. Thank you. Thank you. Where it's fun to talk about small. We're going to be talking to sometimes guest stars. Are you liking the direction? is going in? Yeah, because I'm getting more screen time. It's good. But mostly it's just me and Tom remembering.

I think we all feel like there was a scene missing here. You got me, Tom. Let's revisit it. Let's look at it. See what we remember. See what we remember. I had never been around anything like that before. I mean, it was so fun. Talkville. Talkville. I just had a flashback. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Let's get into it.