Shawn Ryan Show - #235 John "Tig" Tiegen - 13th Anniversary of the Benghazi Attacks

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

John “Tig” Tiegen is a former U.S. Marine Sergeant and security contractor renowned for his heroic actions during the 2012 Benghazi attacks. Serving with the CIA's Global Response Staff, Tiegen was part of the elite team that defended the U.S. diplomatic compound and CIA Annex against militant assaults on September 11, 2012, saving numerous lives over 13 grueling hours. With over 13 years in high-threat security for Blackwater and government agencies, he has deployed to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. Tiegen co-authored the New York Times bestseller 13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened in Benghazi (2014) and served as a consultant for Michael Bay’s film adaptation (2016). A sought-after motivational speaker, he shares lessons on leadership, resilience, and teamwork through his organization Beyond the Battlefield, supporting veterans and first responders. He continues advocating for truth, patriotism, and mental health awareness, often speaking at events about overcoming adversity. Tiegen is running for mayor of Colorado Springs. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: ⁠https://betterhelp.com/srs⁠ This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. ⁠https://bunkr.life⁠ – USE CODE SRS Go to https://bunkr.life/SRS and use code “SRS” to get 25% off your family plan. ⁠https://meetfabric.com/shawn⁠ ⁠https://shawnlikesgold.com⁠ ⁠https://helixsleep.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://mypatriotsupply.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://patriotmobile.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://prizepicks.onelink.me/lmeo/srs⁠ ⁠https://rocketmoney.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://ROKA.com⁠ – USE CODE SRS ⁠https://simplisafe.com/srs⁠ ⁠https://ziprecruiter.com/srs John "Tig" Tiegen Links: Linktree - https://linktr.ee/tigtiegen Website - https://tigtiegen.com X - https://x.com/TigTiegen IG - https://www.instagram.com/tigtiegen LI - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-tig-tiegen-6421455 Book (13 Hours) - https://www.amazon.com/13-Hours-Account-Happened-Benghazi/dp/1455582271 Album - https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/johntigtiegen/rest-now-brothers-2 YT - https://www.youtube.com/@TheModernPatriotPodcast FB - https://www.facebook.com/TheModernPatriotMedia Campaign - https://tigformayor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. John Teigen, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for having me. You might regret it, but we'll see. I don't think I'll regret it. But, yeah, so we've talked a lot about Bagazzi on the show.

And, you know, we've had our former colleagues on, the people that you were there with, the ones that came public anyways. And so you kind of last one of the stack, and I've been really looking forward to this, man. ever since we talked, what, a couple months ago. Yeah, it's been a, yeah. So I appreciate you coming out. Thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate it.

My pleasure. My pleasure. You ready to get into it? No, but I guess I've got no choice. I'm here now, so, me. All right. Everybody starts off with an introduction. John Teigen, a Colorado native and former United States Marine Corps sergeant,

a seasoned private security contractor starting with Blackwater in 2003, later joined the CIA's elite global response staff, also known as GRS, a hero of the 2012 Benghazi attack. You are one of the six GRS operators who defied orders to stand down. Fought through 13 grueling hours of chaos and helped save dozens of American lives. Co-author of the best-selling book, Thirteen Hours, The Inside Account of what really happened in Benghazi. A dedicated husband and father of twin sons. and most importantly, out of everything, you're a Christian.

Yes, sir. Am I missing anything? I don't think so. Well, I can think of something I'm missing. You're running for mayor in Colorado Springs. Yeah, I'm going to be doing that. So we'll definitely hit that up. And a musician?

I'm not a, well, definitely not a musician. Or should I say a magician? Is that what that one? Magician. You remember that interview? I don't know if you saw that one. Anyways, oh, yeah, yeah, anyways, I would say more, I don't know, I wouldn't call myself a music writer. I just kind of wrote some stuff down.

I think I posted a couple of the poems online, and actually David Corlew got a hold of me. He said, hey, you need to do a voiceover on this. So I was like, you know, I hate hear myself because I don't watch my own interviews. Me neither. Yeah, so you can do it at the Philly. So I'm like, okay, fine. So I started reading it, and I didn't like the way it flowed, so I started changing it up a little bit. Then I had a buddy, another buddy, hit me up, said, hey, you should throw it in, you know, make it to a song.

I was like, I don't know how to make anything to a song. So he told me about a program, said, put it in here, and actually it'll like sing it to you. And that's kind of how it came, that he started changing the lyrics around and kind of make it sound good. And that's kind of where it came from. Oh, it sounds good. Not really a, I don't think I'm a writer, music writer. but David Corlo, he's, yeah, he's going to work with me, I guess. Right on, man.

He's a good dude. Oh, he is. How long have you known David for? Probably since, like, when did we meet him? I think it was in the book tour. Met him and Charlie. We went to the Grand Ole Opry, I think, was 2014 when we first did the book tour. Damn, right on.

2014, 2015, sometime around there. 10, 11 years. Yeah. It's a good man to know. I've been buddies with him for, man, I don't know either. Less time than that. It was right when we moved here, so probably around 18. Yeah.

But we're an awesome guy. Oh, he is. He's really good. He's a really good cat. Well, a couple things to knock out here before we get into the interview. So I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account. Kind of like only fans?

It's kind of like only fans, except I keep at least I keep the majority. of my clothes on. So now if I was in my 20s, you know, would probably go the full gambit. But you do the foot thing at least, you know, that's a, that's a fetish. But they've been with me since the very beginning. A lot of them have and it's turned into quite the community. And so one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. And so this is from Ian Lane's. Good question. You've seen firsthand what happens when politics and hesitation costs lives. Do you think America is any better prepared today,

or are we doomed to repeat Benghazi in a different place and a different time? Yeah, I would say, yeah. Because if you look out, I mean, just through the history of what things have happened, when I would say leadership is not truly held accountable, nothing changes. But, you know, we got, it really just depends on the administration that's involved. and, you know, what their mindset is actually changes it. But until people are actually held accountable and for even just for somebody being killed when they just promote somebody or just reprimand them, again, your leadership

and you're in that position and that is your responsibility to make sure that they have what they need to make sure they come out alive. And, you know, if somebody gets killed because if your lack of leadership, your lack of oversight, you should be held accountable to where, again, on voluntary manslaughter, it is what it is. Until stuff like that happens, it will happen again. Yeah, I mean, it's fucking sad, man. It is.

I mean, it's a tough decision to make. But again, you're, you're responsible for the lives of the people on the ground. You know, like Lamb, they're requesting for stuff. And I was in Benghazi since 2011. They're requesting for more support, you know, talking to the security guys because we'd go over there almost every week. you know, and they would say, yeah, we always get denied and ask them why. They would never tell us why.

And again, this is from their mouths. And, you know, when the constant was attacked the second time over there, there was only two security personnel over there at that time. You know, I believe this was like in April. Then it happened about 1 o'clock in the morning. So I was there that night. So that's how I know. And we got told to stand down then. But again, when stuff like that happens, you know it's a security risk.

you know there's failures and you don't do anything about it until you people are held accountable nothing will ever change man it's just crazy you know do you remember when the coast bombing was yeah what what year was that uh want to say 20 2010 2011 or something no i think it was 2010 it was like around it was christmas man i just i remember working over there and it was just the same mistakes everywhere oh yeah and you'd bring it up i did it too you know and i was actually went somewhere else I was supposed to go back to there and yeah

we kept telling them it was like we gotta search these guys when they come on no no they're our friends there are our buddies so again it's like it's like I can't remember excuse me I can't remember if it was your event in Benghazi

or if it was the coast probably but I remember deploying in a Christmas time frame I think it was right after Christmas and I feel like it was the coast bombing there. It just happened, but it may have been Mungazi, but I remember getting over there, and I was just like, guys, like,

we're time and place predictable. We're doing the same shit every single fucking day, you know, and I was brand new. It was probably coast. It might have been coast, but whatever it was, I had brought that up, and I was like, we can't be doing this shit. Like, this is, I was new at SOC.

I just went from Blackwater to SOC, and I eventually went direct, But I was like, we're going to get fucking killed. Like, you guys just saw what fucking just happened. You know, we got to, I'll be damn, 24 hours later, our safe house got hit. And, you know, luckily, nobody got killed. But, dude, it was just the same thing over and over and the same excuses like that. Well, no, we don't search them because they're our friends.

Or, oh, well, you know, we've been doing this for years and it's like, yeah, that's exactly We need to switch it up. Exactly. So we never understood that at Coast. Never understood that at all. Were you at Coast when it happened? No, I was, I went to another, I went to another location, but I just, I was at Coast three trips in a row. Normally you go back four times, but then I ended up getting, I had the golden visa, so I went over there.

Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Man, I can't believe we never worked with each other. Yeah. That's, I mean, it's crazy. I went to more four bases. I was in Kabul, like my first trip. Then after that, it was out the other locations. Did Iraq twice? And, yeah. I hated Kabul. Yeah, I hated it, too. I like the outstations. Oh, yeah, way better. There's a lot more going on than. Yes. Too much flagpole crap. Yeah. Man. But, well, a couple other things. Everybody gets a gift. Oh, yeah, he perked up for that one, didn't you, Axel? All right.

Easy fellow. But. So, yeah, those are vigilance, lead gunwheres, legal in all 50 states. Not that you have to worry about that in Colorado. Right. Yeah. But, yeah, it's just candy. And then I got another thing for you.

all righty so i got a uh a buddy over at sig his name's jason and i told him you were coming on and he got all excited and he wanted me to uh give you this so that is the sigg p211 gTO it is siggs first 2011 style pistol and uh they did the damn good job i like the job it's heavy isn't it i like it i have the i carry the legion You do? The 365? Which Legion? The X.

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's a big, this is, I mean, it's about the same weight. I just like heavier guns, man. Feel that trigger, man. Yeah, they got the compensator up front. Redid their optics line. Hey, buddy. That is nice.

Oh, the reset's nice. That's crisp. It's good to go. I like that. Not that you need that. this guy running around you all the time. You know, he's... Although, I don't know.

He's a very good deterrent. I'll bet he is. He's got my ass in line, that's for sure. Oh, this is sick. Appreciate it, man. Yeah, man, you're welcome. You're welcome. We'll break it in on a break.

Right? Heck, yeah. It's be my first, uh, first one. Nice. Yeah, I got the compact and the X and I'll have this one. Nice. Nice. I did. I've liked SIGs. Me too, man. Me too.

They make a great firearm. They do. But, all right. So let's get into the interview. So like I mentioned... I thought we were done. Thanks for coming. Yeah, so like I said, I want to get into...

My favorite thing to do, my bread and butter, is to do life stories on gentlemen like yourself. And so do life story, get into your military career, how you got into contracting, GRS. I would love to talk about, obviously, what happened in Maghazi, and then everything that you're doing now, including running for mayor. Okay. So where did you grow up? Well, I was born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. So I lived there pretty much until about third grade or something like that.

And that's actually where I wanted to join the military. Um, not really having the good, uh, get structured family life, you know, mom worked at a bar, just all that stuff. So she was there, never really there at night and always slept during the day. So I guess it was kind of fun. Um, but. Oh, yeah, I guess I'm, yeah, maybe some stores that probably shouldn't say on here as a kid. But, so there was recruiting, army recruiting station across the street. And we lived, um, like on the main Ave. Not for a long time, but one of the main was on the main app. So. right across the street was a creating station so to and from usually from school i'd always go there because you know parents went home anyways plus they always had snacks and posters and you know patches they'd always give you yeah so i always always hang out there and so that's kind of but it was with the army um and it was actually i wanted to fly the apache helicopter no kidding yeah that thing was just badass man you know then plus the air wolf was out i think at that time too so if you don't know what Air Wolf is, yeah, you know, go look it up. But TV show. But anyway, so, uh, but, uh,

unfortunately, about fifth grade, I had to start wearing glasses. So, yeah, that's kind of when I was done. Yeah, I was done flying. I'm like, no, can't fly. But no, so I grew up in Iowa. Um, did a lot of stupid stuff as a kid there, even young. We used to jump trains. You used to do what? jump on the trains to go from like one part of the town to the other because like our cousins lived on like the south end we lived on the north end kind of thing so the trains went going they'd go like 10 miles an hour they weren't a haul of ass so he just jumped the train we knew the schedule again you're looking like a third grade damn dude yeah so cedar out I mean it's a pretty good size city and you know going the other side time to get late you knew

the train was coming he had to get on the train otherwise you had to pretty much walk back. It sucked. Damn. Sometimes the family'd give you a ride back, but not always. They're kind of ditch bags in a way. Was your dad in the picture? No, he left, I think, when I was born or something like that.

Have you met him? Oh, yeah. I think I finally met him the first time, like in sixth grade, I think is what it was. Holy shit. What was that like? It was awkward. It was weird, but, you know, I actually went out. I think it was a, might have been.

in fifth grade, I think I met him the first time. But anyways, I went out there one time and I was going to try to stay out there and live. But that didn't turn out very well either. Why not? It kind of goes back to, well, growing up, getting violent, kind of being physically abused and stuff like that as a kid. So when I went to my dad kind of on a different kind of scale, but he kicked me one time because I spent $2 more than I should have. And I said, I'm not going to live here. I can just go back home.

We say, I got more of my friends. So, because at the time, he was in California. So then kind of went back from California back to Colorado. That was in seventh grade. You were physically abused as a kid? Mm-hmm. By who? Three different people.

Adults? Yeah. Well, no, I'd say one was more of a, it was a, this was, the first one, it was in Iowa. I would say kindergarten time frame but it was our babysitter what had happened I don't really

we got detail into it but she would just kind of just do things I guess sexual? Oh yeah yeah oh yeah shit dude and then well the physical side

was more from our stepdad You know, he'd beat the shit out of us Sometimes he'd come home drunk And if he had a bad night Pulls out of bed and whip our asses With the I just remember the belt

And it had metal rings in it So he said he used it because they With the holes Because it'd fly through the air faster Just for no reason Yep, he just had a bad night Or we left dishes in the sink or something like that Jeez dude

Who was the thing? third. Well, the other ones were more of a sexual abuse kind of stuff, but, you know, my mom's boyfriend used to pretty much hit all of us. You know, I mean, we're on Rulie for the most part, but. How many brothers and sisters do you? I got one old older brother, older sister, and a younger sister. And they all got it? Not my younger one. I don't think she really did. What about the sexual abuse? I don't think they did. I think it was just me. and the other one again was in Iowa as well

it was again close friend and then the last one was in in Colorado I think I was going into fifth grade geez tag you had three different fucking sexual abusers by fifth grade

yep two of them the family didn't know about the only knew about the last one what did they do ever got caught what's that What did they do? So how that guy got caught, we were up in Gold Camp Road in Colorado. And actually, my cousin was there, and the guy, you know, he would bring, he bought his liquor. He was actually, he was a stock car driver or something like that, one of those little short speed track racers.

So he was pretty well known, I guess. We didn't really know because it was like our second year being in Colorado for the most part. And, but anyways, so we were up there and he started playing like a truth or dare game. And he was like, you know, truth or dare, I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think he pulled his pants down. That's when my cousin grabbed me and we took off. You know, people in Colorado know where Gold Camp Road is, you know, we pretty much went from Gold Camp Road and we hiked it back to Manitou Springs

and had the cops called and that's kind of how that went. But come to find out, he was doing that to a couple of other kids, but they let him off saying there was not enough evidence. Do you mind if we dive into this a little more? Go ahead. You know, I totally wasn't expecting this to come up. In fact, when we just reviewed the interview, he said, oh, no, he had a great childhood.

And, but, you know, it, I can't believe how common this is in people's childhood. And, you know, I found it out through interviewing. I'll bet 50% of the people that have been on here have been through physical or sexual abuse as a kid. I think that's probably more than that, just ones don't talk about it. You know, if you look in the military, a lot of the, I bet you a majority of them had a semi-ruff childhood, but we're probably abused in one way or another. I mean, out of that, I mean, there's only so many, a lot of times this will come up after the interview or before the interview, and they don't want to talk about it

because they've made amends with the abuser or whatever. But I mean, so anyways, kind of where I'm going with this is, you know, I've learned, like, how common this is through interviews, diving into childhood, and it just keeps coming up. And it's always, almost always as a shock because it just comes out. And so I started, I hate hearing that. And I started diving into child sex exploitation and child trafficking and abuse and all that stuff

and kind of exposing how common it is today's society. But, you know, what I want to ask is if you don't want to go into detail, that's fine. I totally understand and I'm not going to press you on it. But, you know, one of the things that I like to do because we've had so many of these stories come out is talk about, you know, kids that are in that predicament right now as we're sitting here talking, you know, and fuck, man, three abusers by the time you're in fifth grade? Yep. How do you get, I mean, well, I mean, for the, I mean, the first two, you don't, you don't really think anything's wrong. Honestly, I mean, hell, I was so damn young.

I don't know if anything's wrong or not. I think that the first one stopped just because we moved. You know, she was, again, she was the babysitter. And, you know, again, she, I don't remember exactly why, but, you know, she was babysitters during the day, mainly during the summer. Could have been, it was maybe because school started. She couldn't come over no more. But, you know, for me, you know, even though I was running for mayor, you're going through and they're teaching about the things that's going on. And I'm like going, you know, and these things happened to me,

none of this stuff was brought up when I was a kid. I remember, you know, going through the problems and stuff. And for, like, kids that are going through it, my biggest fall, I originally didn't want kids because I didn't want to have to deal with, you know, my own kids going through the same shit that I did. So that's why I waited until 35 when I had enough close calls to say, well, you know, I better have kids if I want my jeans to continue. So, again, that's why I decided other than that, it's just like, man, society's just fucked up.

Yeah. And we don't protect our kids, you know. You do have some parents, again, they'll see somebody doing something their kid and they'll go kill them. And then what they got to do, you got to go spend time in court, which I think is horseshit. Somebody's hurting your kids. You know, that's our number one asset in this world is our kids. That's our future. So to allow things like that to happen, that's why I was kind of afraid to have kids because if somebody did that to my kid.

you kill him I'm going to kill him so you know I talked to my kids about it you know they don't know my history but I always made sure I let them know you know that was the biggest thing about the last guy was he would use you know again you know what fourth grade you're what eight nine or something like that you still don't really know um seniors again he was like you know if you tell anybody I'm gonna I'm gonna kill you or I'm gonna kill your brother and sister because it was in an apartment and they just lived like right upstairs and he was a pretty big guy you know um he was bigger than my mom's boyfriend so you know as a kid you don't know so my biggest thing is telling my kids if anybody ever tells you to keep a secret or let me know because

you know who i am i'm gonna kill him i got no problem telling my kids that that way they don't have to fear somebody else geez so with the with the sitter was this like an everyday occurrence or or every time she every time so it's pretty much just during the week how i mean what would you say to you would you say don't tell anybody oh yeah yeah they all said that don't tell anybody that's the biggest thing about telling any kids anybody tells you do not tell anybody there's a problem especially as a kid you shouldn't have to have a secret as a kid geez so again that's just parents actually having those conversations with their kids just to make sure you know even going back to the whole crap that they're teaching

kids in school forcing that LBGET, all that hidden stuff. Same thing. If anybody says, don't tell you, you should be telling your parents because they're doing something that is wrong, period. Did you wind up telling anybody? About the first two, no. And the second guy was upstairs in an apartment? No, that was the third one. Who was the second guy? That was in Iowa. He lived down the street, and I just remember it was, that would only happen twice. only. But it was just because I would, I spent the night. He had a kid the same age and stuff like that. And, you know, I think they, they worked in the bar with my mom or something like

that. So. And the third guy lived above you? Yeah. How would that happen? So he had, again, take you, they'd say they're going to take us to the racetrack or something like that. And that's when it would happen. Or, again, he said he could watch us or watch me he never did anything when the other kid brother and sister were around but so take you too he had a used car lot right on film uh film or right on plat kind of next really close to union the building's still there but obviously he's not but that's where again he'd try to that's when things would happen mainly there so i try to not go but again sitting there sitting there He's sitting there telling, you know, don't tell your parents or I'm going to, you know, kill you, kill them.

So you don't tell them why you don't want to go. So sometimes you still had to go. Shut, dude. So. And physical abuse. Fucking hey, man. Yeah, there's people that had worse than me. But that's probably why I was so kind of protective, I guess, and violent growing up.

Who are you protective of? just like other friends other people being picked on and bullied and stuff like that so did your mom have any idea that this was going on no but i do uh so when she finally well when everything kind of did get out in the open the cops are called and all that um i do remember when when i think i was i took off when was this i might have been like an eighth grade or something by now you know as a kid we don't really have a curfew or anything and I think I was out and I remember coming back and I was coming in through the garage and usually they're up and partying almost all the time so they're up I remember I just I don't know why they were talking about it but I know my

sister was there talking to my mom about it and uh you know she was kind of you know because I was getting a lot of trouble and a sister was probably you know trying to explain to my mom's like well it's probably this stuff you probably need to go see somebody and I just remember remember her sitting and saying he needed to quit using this as an excuse and just get over it. Your mom said that? Of course, they didn't know I was out there. And then I was just like, I just kind of said, fuck this. And I just took off and went to my best friend's house and just stayed there for a few days.

Jeez. Are you close with your mom now? No, I really haven't talked to her since like 2000. Maybe four or five. Why did you quit talking to her? That's another story. So I got a stepdaughter. I was on my second marriage, but my previous wife and had a stepdaughter.

And she was getting into a lot of trouble and just kind of doing her own thing for the most part. And we were disciplining her and came to a point. I think her mom was actually, she was in Kuwait at this time. And so I was kind of at home and we're getting ready to go back to Kuwait. I think I came back to pick her up to bring her back to Kuwait. It was something like that. And, well, she was constantly running away and stuff like that. And one time she just kind of disappeared.

So we're calling, calling my younger sister and my mom trying to figure out where she might be, calling her friends. Well, got a whole of her friends and her friends. were saying that my sister was picking her up from school every day. This is why her grades were failing. So I called her and said, do you know where she is? And she's like, I haven't heard from her, yada, yada, yada. Well, me and my buddy went over there at night and just kind of went around her house

because we just kind of assumed that's probably where she was. Sure enough, we heard her voice in there. And so we called the cops. Cops came. I just remember my mom coming in. She didn't say hi or nothing to me and my buddy at all. You know, the cops just sitting there as we're talking and explaining what's happening. And, you know, she did my mom just comes walking by really fast and cops like,

who's that? And that's my mom. You know, she's not even saying anything, right? Because she knew she was there. She had been gone for like a week now. We've been trying to look for her. Well, obviously, cops get involved. Child Protective Service gets involved.

They start talking to her. Next thing you know, I'm being looking. that for for molesting stepdaughter what? So they had convinced her that if they, if she told them

that I was touching her, that they, that she could leave and come live with them. And that's when I was like, fuck you, I'm done talking with you guys. Because that just, that, that does more than what they think they thought it would do. because that destroy somebody's life. This is when, again, I was getting ready to actually start working with the Blackwater and all that,

doing all my background. You get something like that. You're done. Jeez. So. How would you internalize all the abuse as a kid? Um, it's just kind of one of those things that you can't control it. You know, one thing I knew wasn't my fault.

I never had that, never felt anything like that. My thing was just, like, where was the protection that you're supposed to have? Where are all the adults, you know, especially after when they let the dude off? And I was just like, this is just fucked up. You know, it was just when I kind of knew, like, I had to be my own protector. And pretty much from that moment on, I was. When did you realize it was wrong? When my cousin yanked me out of the car.

I think I kind of knew because I didn't want to go anymore. But again, I didn't know what to do, what to say to anybody. So I think during that time, I think I knew it was wrong. Why did your cousin yank you out of the car? He was two years older than I was. And I think he's just kind of like, you know, like, yeah, fuck you. Plus, he's kind of part Indian, so he has that mentality. Damn, man.

So. So what did, you know, where I'm kind of going with this is, there are a lot of kids out there that go through this. I have no idea how many, but it's an overwhelming amount. And, I mean, one is too many. What advice do you have for kids that are dealing with this right now? Tell some, find somebody to help you until you do, honestly. If you don't trust your parents, you know, again, you can call 911 and you can tell them.

Find somebody. Damn, man But a lot of the problem is There's so many people that cry wolf out there That it hurts the true people It really does Yeah Again, just because somebody's

I guess you don't like them Don't do that shit to them either Because it destroys their lives Man, I'm sorry I had to go through that I mean I would like to change things But it also made me who I am So it's kind of hard to say, would you?

Yeah. You know, because I may went a whole other direction and did something else. So. Damn. Would you talk about it with your siblings? Any of the abuse? Sexual or physical? No, we talked about getting beat by our stepdad's and stuff.

I know he was an asshole. Did you ever stand up to him? No. I know I didn't. I think my brother might have, but then he'd just beat you harder. That's all they would do. I mean, where kids are getting, you know, the size difference, you know, it's amazing. You ain't not much you can do about it.

I know my mom tried to stand up for us a couple times, but I know he put her in the hospital a few times, throwing down the stairs and all that stuff, you know, separating her shoulder and all that. Shit, man. Did you witness all that? Mm-hmm. that's heavy stuff dude foster homes ain't that great either same same thing they're very abusive you've been in foster homes yeah how did you wind up in a foster uh mainly i think the babysitter once left us

as when i was in first grade around first grade and we're again we're asshole kids man we're intense you know no no discipline no supervision and she she couldn't deal with us no more So she called the cops. My mom again, she was, she was at the bar. Nobody could get a hold of her. So the cops came and got us foster home for about a week for that one. Again, they were just, again, kind of same thing. Very abusive physically.

And then the second one was physically and sexually again. So the worst one knows, that one, my mom was in the hospital. I don't remember exactly what for, but, I remember them walking us there so we could see her from the hospital room, which was kind of cool, I guess, as a kid. Walking back, I didn't have any shoes, and I stubbed my toe, and I ripped it open pretty good. It was pretty gnarly.

Screaming, crying. Couldn't walk. So they were nice at that time, but then we'd gotten into the house. They'd beat the shit out of me because I was crying. Damn, man. Yeah. That's a rough childhood. Jeez.

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Well, again, I think I already kind of had it from the recruiting station. know, just kind of seeing them, you know, compared to my own family life, seeing how they portrayed themselves, I guess. Yeah. And that's kind of what I wanted. But again, how I kept wanting to do it from pretty much, you know, you're looking like second, third grade time frame of this is going on. And then still wanting to do it, you know, all through all the other stuff.

I think I just always wanted, you know, I did like a lot of reports in high school on Vietnam War and stuff like that, did a lot of look into that and how they fought. and stuff, and it just always intrigued me. Did you, I mean, what, I'm just, what's your relationship like with your dad now? Is it non-existent? No, he, so he actually was, he was, he lived with me for a long time. And he was actually watching, watching one of our house when we were overseas doing a lot of contract work and stuff like that.

But then I got divorced in, uh, 20, 23, and then he's kind of out on his own house. So pretty much about, like, 2006 till 2023 he lived with us. So I had a, you know, property out down in Pueblo County, had a, you know, in-law house. That's kind of where he stayed. So he kind of watched, you know, with the cattle and stuff like that while I was gone. And, you know, so he did some help around the house or around the property. How do you think that abuse has affected, if it has, your adulthood? I'm pretty sure it has in one way or another.

I mean... I don't see how it couldn't. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I have that. My wife would probably say the romantic lovey-lovy thing. Pretty rough on the edges for the most part, but definitely don't, you know, trust. Really, you know, a lot of trust. And anybody? Not really, you know, so...

I mean, I trust her and my kids. But, you know, just... been so in betrayal. It's been there forever. You know, even one of my other, my, I'd say, the second stepdad. He, uh, so when you're a kid, you get a job, you can't open a bank account. You have to have a co-signer. So he was a co-signer on the account. And I started work when I was like, when he first, when he could, like 15 or 14. And so I was just saving up money. You know, I'm making a lot of money, but I was saving up. I think I was supposed to have like four to six thousand dollars in the account and uh i was probably the only kid in ninth grade

that had a car but i went to go because the battery dies i went to go buy a battery and i had and i kept getting denied so i called the bank there was no money in it he stole all my money no damn dude so my boss actually is he would just cash my checks for me and just give me cash I quit my bank accounts until I can actually get my own account. What are your relationships like with the rest of your siblings? We talk here and there, but they don't, like, I don't talk to my younger sister. She was part of the whole problem with the stepdaughter. My older one, and she lives in Ohio, and then my brother, he works for the post office,

so he's always working. It's kind of like somebody in the military. You just never see him. But, you know, just kind of like with the Oz and Tonto, we just kind of talk every now and then, hit each other up. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys talk about what happened nowadays? No, I think we did once, we and my brother, when we were drunk.

It's usually when you're drinking, talk about it. Man, I hate Aaron this shit. I didn't expect that, did you? Not at all. Not at all. And I'm glad we went there, so thank you. Again, my thing is, so I used to kind of keep almost everything to myself, but you always hear, like, you know, you got to tell your story because, you know,

somebody else is probably going through it. They're going through something worse. They don't know how to deal with it. Don't know what to do, especially with kids. Yeah. You know, so my biggest thing that, you know, my, best thing to do is tell it because more kids might hear it because of who I am and more again likely to finally say something is happening and it shouldn't be

happening. So it's really, it's better for them. I mean, for me, healing, it doesn't really heal me at all. It's just, it is what it is. There's nothing I can do about it. Can't change it. I've dealt with it. It is what it is again. But it's for me letting kids know, or even adults know, like, again, it's not your fault. At least I did know that growing up. I knew it wasn't my fault. But talk about it, get it out. Otherwise, that, that demon is just going to destroy you. And for kids, find somebody protect you. Talk. Tell somebody it's happening. There's nothing wrong with you. It ain't, you know, just make it in, stop it by telling somebody. What were your grandparents like?

My, my grandma. Is this a generational thing that's going up getting at? I don't think so. I mean, really, I mean, my grandpa, World War II vet, my grandma, they were just stubborn, stubborn people. That's on my mom's side. I didn't really know my grandma on my dad's side. I knew my grandpa. He was a, he was a Christian guy the whole time, you know, that I've known him or knew him. My grandpa, he was just a stubborn old guy, you know, just a mean, grumpy guy.

Sounds like my grandpa. Yeah. This dude, oh, my God. I don't know. how he lived as long as he did either. He was in so many accidents. He fell down. So he worked at Quaker in Iowa. He fell down an elevator shaft down like all the pipes down below. I think like four stories lived, walked out. They got in a major car crash again. Metal just wrapped around him. Lived, walked out. This dude would not die. I remember when I stayed them one

one summer. What was it? I was listening to, I think I wanted to, I was watching a TV show. He wanted to listen to the music. So he would turn his shit out. I would turn the TV up. And he would tell my grandma, go tell that little, I could hear him. Go tell that little shit to turn that off and get outside.

He wasn't, but he was, I mean, he was a, he was a happy guy. But no, I mean, that's never, they were just kind of mean. They were never abusive. They were just, you know, discipline, I would say. School. Yeah, just old school. You know, the reason I was bringing that up is, you know, you see a lot of families, if that's what you want to call it.

But, you know, this gets carried on from generation to generation to generation. It becomes like a generational curse. Yeah. In fact, I got somebody on my team who's been through a lot of that kind of stuff. Sounds like a very similar situation. And so, you know, what I want to ask, and I always commend him because, I know where he came from, and, you know, I guess I can't, I can't say I know where he came from and know what it's like to go through that because I didn't, I didn't, I was fortunate.

I didn't have to go through that. But I always tell him how proud of him I am that, that he broke the curse. Yeah. And that his kids are, his kid is, is, is doing awesome and won't have to experience any of that. It's not from a family standpoint. I think for a lot of people that do it, that's their, a lot of their fear. I think so what I want to ask is and that's why I was asking about your brothers and sisters too to see if they were able to break that and so with you I just want to ask you know what what does it feel like to to break that in the in the family lineage I mean knowing of my kids it feels great no my kids have to go through that I mean it's it's it's something that would I'm glad they never have to experience But a lot of times when you do break it, if you never talk to them about it, they can come right back.

So I think that's all, it's, it sucks to have to talk about it, but talking to your kids about it, even if you, because you don't know if they're going through it or not. I guarantee my mom had no idea, obviously. So I think having those conversations with your kids and letting them know, like, hey, people shouldn't be touching you here, touching their. And if they say, don't tell anybody, you better tell somebody. regardless of they threaten your life or someone else's life because they can't do nothing to you. I guarantee it.

They can't. It's just an empty threat, especially knowing what I know now. Man. Scary shit, man. Scary shit. Yeah, because the moment law enforcement gets involved in the scene,

it's not a Hollywood movie, they're done. I mean, they may get away with it, but you're going to be pulled away from that environment completely. Yeah. So either way, you're still protecting. Yeah. Man. Well, once again, man, I just thank you for going into that because I think it's important to talk about, you know, for the, for the upcoming generations. Oh, yeah.

And it seems to be happening more and more and more as time goes on, or at least it's exposed a lot more. Well, it goes back to the, like I was saying, the accountability. They think people cannot be, there's no rehab for that. they should never see daylight ever again when they do that yeah that's the problem i'm with you so let's get into the military stuff when did you join so i decided to join the marine corps when i saw full metal jacket so i think it was what 89 or something like that when i popped out so i knew i was gonna join I still kind of was going to do the army. But being the hoodland that I was, I saw that. I was like, you know, I need more of that.

I knew it. So I'm talking about the boot camp scene, not the after. Actually, I don't really watch the whole combat part. I just like the boot camp. And it's awesome. Maybe I'll see if I can find it. But I got a picture of my kid. I still watch it.

Downstairs watching it. And it just kind of started. My son literally stood there during the whole entire boot camp part of the movie and was just watching. Then I stopped it just before Gomer freaking whacked himself. So I was like, okay, you know, how'd you like it? He said that was cool. I'm like, see? Oh, shit.

So I ended up doing the delayed entry program in the Marine Corps. You don't go to boot camp, but it does kind of help towards promotion. So I did a, you kind of sign the thing saying you're going to do it. You have to go through, like, the weekend stuff. So that kind of helped me stay out of trouble. And then, yeah, then November of 95, I went to boot camp. And I'm going to tell anybody, if you cherish holidays, don't go to boot camp during holidays. It'll ruin it for you.

I used to love Christmas. No, I was just kind of like, our Christmas tree was a red light, red lens flashlight in the tree. Nice. And we had a single old Christmas tree to it. so boot camp was i thought it was easy man i mean if you're physically fit it to me it was it was a cakewalk i mean i didn't mind getting yelled at i got slammed a few times but i just giggle just like this was awesome what did it feel like to get the hell out of your family predicament uh so i kind of left when i was in ninth grade i moved in

with my best friend's, girlfriend's parents. So I was, actually, I was, when I got my job after my dad, my stepdad, stole that crap from me, I kind of just said, I'm done, and I left, moved in with a stripper when I was 16. What? Yeah. How did you meet a stripper at 16? One of my mom's friends. Was your mom a stripper?

No. I don't know how they met. I think it was over drugs. Holy shit. So moved in there with them and then with her. And it was all normal at first. And then it turned to more of a relationship. But then I ended up moving out and actually moved into the back of the restaurant that I was working at.

So I had a bed back there and I was just go there and I'd sleep. Did that for a while. And then I moved in with my best friend's parents, his girlfriend's parents. So you met a stripper who was a friend of your mom's and moved in with her. Yeah, she called the cops on her and tried to get her for all kinds of stuff. But again, like statutory rape is what it was. But nothing was actually happening at that time anyways. I just wanted to get the hell out of that place.

You know, she had already had drug raids done on her and stuff like that. So I just had to get out of there. So, yeah. How old was a stripper? 24. And this turned into a relationship? Yeah. I mean, what's going on in the house that you're living in when you're living with a stripper?

What do you mean? I mean, is it like, what the hell was happening? Did they come home and there's a party every night? No, actually, she didn't throw any parties in her house at all in the apartment. She never had any. They're always across the, across the hall. So, you just go there and hang out those guys more than anything. geez dude

yeah um but no i mean it was again it was just a good way to get out my actually one of my my best friend ended up moving in there too as well for a while um yeah it was a weird upbringing but why did you leave there uh it just just wasn't very good you know kind of i don't really know how to explain it but it just kind of I think it was more of the relationship side of it where, again, you couldn't go out and she was going out kind of a thing. And then she, then I know she was, she had drugs. Again, I just hated the drugs scene just because of my parents. So I was like, I screw this and I moved out.

My boss again, he said, you can go stay back here in the storage area. I mean, put your bed, put outside of bed, a dresser, everything back there. Man. I'd just take a shower at school until I moved in with the, like, my best friend's parents and then I was really jacked up in my junior year and I was playing football

you know staying with them I said a third degree separation on my shoulder and I had to have surgery well it came to a point where they actually had to go and yell at my mom because obviously they don't really have custody over me so she had to sign the paperwork for me

to actually get the surgery done so here I am I have my bone sticking up like this for about three months and I'm in a sling And I finally got the surgery done. But, yeah, they had to force her to sign the paperwork for me to get the surgery. How the hell did you find Christianity through all of that? I think it started as a kid. We always went to church and stuff like that.

So I always liked the music. It was just weird. All this is going on and you guys are going to church? My parents, not really. It was mainly my, um, my grandparents. Grandma, God, I can't remember that. And then some other people in the family, some of the older ones, they would take us a church and stuff like that.

So we did a, we're on welfare. So, like, if we wanted Christmas, Thanksgiving and all that stuff, we always went to the church to go get food, go get presents and stuff like that and see Santa Claus, who's always at the church. That's where we got stuff from. So. Damn, Ted. But, you know, I always believed in God and Jesus always didn't really understand it.

Got baptized as a kid. The second time I did it, I did it because of a girl. Man, I just, whatever it's worth, man, I'm just really proud of you and getting out of that shit. I mean, a lot of people never make it out of that. I think I had one, so getting a lot of trouble. I had to go see counselors and crap. I remember my mom was inside. This is before they had the white noise machine

outside the counselor's office. I remember the office building was it was on Academy. I think I remember exactly which building it was, but it was actually right next to the recruiting and the Marine Recruiting Station I ended up going to. But I was sitting outside of the office, you know, my brother and my sister, we're all always in trouble. So again, it was just that family, you know,

just getting in trouble constantly. I won't tell their stories, but I was there. And I remember, you know, my mom talking about it was really not in a good way. And then the counselor just said, you know, talking about me, he's like, you know, he's going to end up just like them. He's going to be in jail. He's not going to amount to anything. And that's it. I just kind of sat there.

I heard that, and I got up and I left. I never went back there, but I was like, fuck you, you can tell me who I am and what I'm going to do. So that was probably part of it. the motivation. But I still got in trouble, but I also, I also kind of knew that fine line of what you could do and what you shouldn't do. So. How do you think you learned that? Just, yeah, just from other people around you, what kind of, you know, the crap they got into, you know, what would happen to them. So I just learned, like, you can only push things so far. Like, I never, like, gotten to, you know, robberies and stuff like that. You know,

I was, I don't know, I just popped in my head. So in Iowa, when, just when it was before I got into first grade, we had moved to this new house from the other one that I had the babysitter at. I would sneak out like at midnight before first grade. And I learned how to. Before first grade. And we lived next to a college, so a bunch of, you know, apartments and stuff like that. A lot of people didn't lock their cars back then.

So I'd open a car, that's still all the change. I did this for a while. And probably, I think it was about the second month. Because I wasn't smart enough. I'd probably do it like, you know, almost like every weekend, like every Sunday, I think is what it was or something. Like that was consistent. Well, these college kids decided to hold a sting on me. I think they caught me like at three in the morning.

What? What do you do to a? a pre first grader that's, uh, taking change out of your car. Oh, my God. So they, they grab me, right? I'm just like, I'm just a little shit. I'm just like, let me go. I'm cussing up a storm and this and that. What do you like six? Oh, yeah. Probably five. Dude. And, uh, they're just like, what the hell are you, you've been one in here, you know, tell us the truth. If you're the one stealing any, we already called the cops and like, you know, we'll help you out. I'm like, yeah, I've been the one doing it's like why are you doing it well i want to eat because again we a lot of times we

didn't that was usually we go to the grocery store and still and still food from the produce section you know we got kicked out a high v a lot just because we'd sit there and eat least i did especially the strawberries were good but and then they're just looking at like are you serious like yeah just you know usually i just go buy food with it so the cops got there they said oh no he wasn't they told him that i was out wandering around they didn't tell me that's they They told me, don't ever do this again, and I didn't. Damn, Teg. But no, the cops got me, they brought me back to the house.

I learned a lie pretty good. My mom and the stepdad, like, what the hell are you doing? What's going on? I just started wanting to go for a walk. So I got my ass beat, but not as bad. It's just a couple spankings, a couple slaps, not the normal beating. So it wasn't too bad. I forgot about what I was talking about before that, but no, I don't know, that just, I don't know, that's just kind of made me talk about.

Oh, yeah, so I didn't, like, it wasn't no grand theft, I thought, oh, I didn't do no armed robberies, didn't, you know, kind of quit stealing after I left Iowa. You know, we used to break into people's houses and garages and still stuff, but kind of, again, went to Colorado to stop doing that stuff. mainly for me it was just a lot of fights that was really it it was about the only biggest thing I was because once I especially when I started working

I was more about making money than doing anything else I mean hell I was 14 I had a Mustang 2 I bought for 300 bucks the only thing I had to do was put new tires on it and traded that

and got an 84 blazer you know it's always you know, from a kid, I was working. I was always trying to make money, you know. Even mowing lawns, I always try to figure out how to make money. Usually that's how you bought your toys, especially GI Joe's. So I always worked for everything that I had.

Nothing was really given, even during Christmas and all that crap. Damn, man. So you were surviving from a very early age. Jeez. All right, let's go back to the very first. Marine Corps. Yeah, so went to boot camp.

Again, it was fun. I enjoyed it. It wasn't, to me, it wasn't hard, but we had 84 recruits and only two drill instructors. So we got away with everything. I mean, normally it wasn't going to be that way. It would normally be like 50. But Bill Clinton had a shutdown during that time, so everybody got backlogged. So anyways, got in there, wanted to do infantry.

It was just a bullet catcher. um picked up rank pretty fast because again i just knew what i wanted to do i i enjoyed that stuff you excelled at this yeah you know became an infantry squad leader you know became sergeant within like three years so i was a i was a squad leader within two years so what was it like for you i mean let me rephrase that how close were you with your guys in the marine corps I think for the most part, we were fairly close. I mean, obviously, you had to separate the rank for the most part. You know, you kind of did, kind of den it.

Sometimes I think it's more hurtful to a unit than it is helpful. But a lot of guys can't keep that separation of the rank. You get too buddy-buddy, and that's where they want that because they're like, I don't really got to listen to. He's my best bud, even though he's your squad leader. Yeah. So that's kind of the separation. But the most part, I think, you know, we'd always hang out.

we do things and what we could. But my biggest thing, you know, was, again, doing a lot of things I did in school, the wars and all that. Reading a lot of the problem was the guys, the junior guys, didn't know what to do if the squad leader got whacked or the platoon sergeant got whacked. So when I went in, my goal was to make sure, like, my team leaders knew what a platoon sergeant's job was. So they always knew, like, ranks above them.

And I told them, you got to tell your guys what your job is and what my job is. kind of thing because again war happens people die if you don't know how to handle things and move step up it makes you might not know everything but it it starts guiding them in the right direction so I always made sure you know

that again like they knew other people's jobs even radios even on the Marine Corps we saw a radio like maybe once in four years of course that was back in the 90s now I think everyone has a radio but me being a leader is just

making sure that their that your juniors are capable of doing your job and somebody else's job above you that's what a leader does it doesn't make doesn't you don't stand there and just be like oh I'm the all-powerful like no they need to be able to step up and take your spot if something happens so and I enjoyed it I mean it was a lot of fun I've they kind of made me the remedial uh guy because that's kind of I was an asshole it wasn't nice um but so like all the guys who would fell PT I was the one they sent to in the whole particular It was fun. What did the stability feel like?

I mean, coming from an environment like that into... Oh, because the consistency was awesome. I enjoyed it. It was way better. So, I mean, I was in 29 Palms, so that part kind of sucked, but I didn't really, it doesn't bother me too much. Because I already had a vehicle. If you didn't have a vehicle, it really sucked.

So I don't know if you know where 29 Palms is, but it's a miserable base. But training... You never been there. Training is awesome. You can't get any more better. training. Everything's live fire. Nice. Yeah. So a lot of, well, a lot of guys that come from like Pendleton and other locations, they end up whacking other guys because they're not used to adjusting

fire. And again, it's all live fire. So, you know, it was cool, be able to call, you know, mortars. We had to actually, I got to call on a cobra one time. You usually don't get to do that as a squad leader. Yeah. But out there, it's different. It was really cool. Did you deploy with the Marine Corps? No, we just did. I just did deployments. Well, it did, but not to combat. I did Okinawa, Thailand, Tinian, and Guam. That was it. And that was just all peacetime stuff. How long were you in the Marine Corps? Four years. Four years? Yeah, I was going to, I was going to re-up. And I was going to do MSG duty. I didn't want to do boot camp crap, but I didn't want to be a general instructor. Even though it was fun, I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do recruiting duty

because I would come home and I would do recruiting duties so you can stay home longer. And so I want to do MSG duty. Well, I went, went to the school, and about a month into it, then you go in, because you do all the psych eval stuff, and then they're looking everything over. It's a three-month school. Go down, I have my interview, and, you know, they're bringing up things. You know, I, again, protecting people for the most part, well, I put one kid in the hospital for about three days.

And I think it was my junior year or senior year. But then they asked me, okay, what happened? I told him, well, the guy punched a kid in a wheelchair. And, you know, he was like some, like, number one wrestler or something in Colorado at the time. And, you know, nobody wanted to step up to him. But my, I'm just like, no, nobody's going to hit a kid in a wheelchair. You know, and I'm, the name, the kid's name was Richie. You know, he's kind of like a, you can't really move himself either.

You know, he kind of could and stuff. So even from junior high, I'd push him around to his classrooms. If I saw him, anybody picked on him, I would dump him. Nobody would he picked on him like that, but like this guy did. And so my buddy's like, dude, there's no way this guy punched him. And he's like, he's right over there. He's like, you go ask him if he says something. I'm a floor him.

And I remember my buddy, Josh, ask him, hey, I heard you punch Richie in the chest. And he started laughing. Hell, yeah, like he did. And I was blacked out. yeah and i guess they for what they said it took 10 teachers to pull me off of them good for you so they brought that up and then they brought up my childhood thing with the with the guy molesting me so they actually used that against me to kick me out of the msg school are you fucking serious that's what i was like that's that's when i said fuck this i'm

leaving the core. Holy shit. Why the fuck would they use that against you? I have no idea. How did they find out about it? Because it was in the police records. Even though it's your kid, but they can look it all the way back. Shit, man.

Yep. So you felt betrayed again. Mm-hmm. And you got out. Yep. And then once she knew I, well, once she knew I, well, that kicked me out. Because what they said, they said, you need to go see a shrink and get this dealt with before you can go over there. I'm like, deal with what?

It's not my fucking problem. It's not my fault. And I said, fuck this. So then I got shit back to my unit. My ex found out. She got a hold of me. And then I was in Okinawa. And then I came back and we got married.

shit man so you left all that stability for what felt like a betrayal again and then what did you do from there well it got out um when up uh she got stationed in Washington she was in the army she had joined and uh so stationed in Washington I tried to be I tried to do the whole uh dependent thing try it for about two months I couldn't dude I had to work I was there I was like man I'm gonna go to subway

I gotta go to do something and finally I just went into heating air conditioning actually started off as a gas piper so just you know doing gas lines and stuff like that and then 9-11 hit

I remember you know getting ready to go to work and watching you know hearing about the first plane and watching the second plane and I just looked at her and said we're going to war this is an attack

and so I told I called my boss said hey I'm not coming in I'm going to the recruiting station so went through recruiting of course they were pissed they're like oh this ain't no big deals

like you guys have no idea what's going on do you so I went there and you know they're talking talking with them and they just kind of look at me I already had a 10% disability rating they're like we ain't going to need you we don't need no broke I get it you're like we don't need no broke

Dick, we're going to have so many people join us. I was like, man, it's fucked up. So, like, whatever, went back. And she ended up getting orders to go to Kuwait, move back to Colorado. This I didn't really know about contracting yet. So I actually started going to school for heating and air conditioning. And money was good. I mean, I was making between five to a thousand bucks a day.

So it really wasn't money. I was why I did the job. But I just hated it. I mean, it was, I just felt like something was missing. I'd just be pissed off every day at work. Like, you work your own pace, so it ain't like I had so many things because you got paid by the job. Whatever you got done is what you got paid for.

So when she was over there, she found out about contracting. And that's when, and then my didn't, I, she came back in 2003, I think, early, but I still had to finish my school. Still wanted to finish it. And then she went and then I stayed. And once I graduated, I went over in July 2003 to Kuwait for my first contracting. And well, I was only making $13 an hour. Well, who's the first contract?

Doing the gate guard stuff for Camp Doha. I got a lot of trouble there too. What kind of trouble? Well, you'd have guys coming back. You'd have dudes coming from Kuwait, from Iraq, you know, from the combat zone. And, you know, you can see their combat units. They're coming down just for, like, R&R. Well, if you didn't have some kind of thing, piece of paper from some colonel or something saying, you know, you're allowed to come on the base, they wouldn't let you on.

So I'm just like, you know, these deeds are driving, you know, from there to here. I'm like, I get it and you see your highest ranking individuals here and I tell them what's going on. I just let them on. I just say, you know, you're going to have a big issue getting off if you don't get this, they probably won't let you off. But have a good time. And I was like, just please do me a favor. Just don't tell them who let you on because I won't be able to do it for anybody else. Well, they finally figured it out.

Right on, man. So they put me out, they took me off gate, put me interior stuff. And it was just like, like whatever. But to me it was just bullshit. It was like, these are coming. You guys are here in Kuwait. You can go out in town at the freaking mall. hang out. These guys are coming from a combat zone. You can't let them come here and hang out and do some

R&R for a day. Like, screw that. Yeah. So, yeah. So where do you go from there? That's when you started looking at the contracts that are going on. Again, you're looking 03 to 04. You know, that's when Blackwater really blew up with the four guys who got dragged and hung on the bridge and stuff like that. So trying to find companies that were reliable contract companies, because there are so many fly-by-night ones. I mean, ones that would actually, they'd do drive-bys on a military basis. I don't know if you heard about that stuff. Yeah, some of these contracts, I mean, Americans doing, it's like, what are you guys doing?

So. What do you need drive-bys? Yeah, like going by military and shooting at them. Are you serious? When the hell was this happening? Like the 0-405, like really the Wild West stuff. Holy shit. Yeah, it was stupid, man.

So a lot of it's just like, so you had to, you. Be careful. There's one that I know, a couple of the guys that I was doing security with, one of them was named Little. He actually ended up going with Blackwater. But he was going to go on there and do security work. And I was just like, dude, you're not, you don't have enough training for that. You know, you're going from an admin guy in the Army to doing PSD work over there and

only going to give you a two-week train up. Now, him and his own team, him getting whacked. a month in. Damn. But some of the other ones, again, they're paying you like 90 grand, like for a month, two months at a time. But some of them, they're not even going there with real guns. They're going like broomsticks painted as guns and all kinds.

So you had to be very careful. Yeah, I remember, I mean, I fell into one of those, not quite that bad, but I remember my first contract was this one with Armor Group. Did you ever hear of Armor Group? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. I lasted about two weeks there, and I was like, get me the fuck out of here now.

And then I wound up getting picked up for the OGA program. But, but geez, dude. Yeah. So end up going with Blackwater, put my resume in just before my, because I got a left earlier. I mean, a lot of guys, they would break their contract. But again, to me, you sign up for something, you finish it. So I just finished it out, went home, went to the training, and after July, so sometime after July in 2004 or something like that, I went to BW, did it. I didn't know who that's going to be working for.

You know, you just Blackwater just picks you up, you know, and then did the training, and next thing you know, I'm overseas doing work. What contract was this? This agency. This was GRS? No, COBRA. Cobra. So I didn't know about GRS. at the time.

Because you're supposed to see, yeah, so it went there and then they kind of, they were talking about it, you know, like, gee, I was like, what was this? GRS thing? They're like, oh, you know, they're doing like the mobile stuff. Like, okay. So I get over to Afghanistan, and that's when, you know, you start learning things and, you know, knowing what's going on. And I actually ended up getting airport duty.

I didn't really say a whole lot of what's going on out there, but there's some fun transfers going on. but so we actually got it was a benefit to me so we would actually do some escorts for some of the agency personnel as cobras even though you're not supposed to because they're going we're going out the airport so they would just kind of jump in with us we do you know we still had to do the sDRs there and back and stuff like that so I got to know the town as a cobra normally those guys don't see anything but two and from the airport well when somebody says you can't do something I'm going to say, well, I'm going to prove you wrong. So every time I would come, I'd go to the TL for the GRS. Here's my resume. This is my background. He's like, dude, you have to be of eight years SF.

Like, I can do better. I can do what you guys can do. So, oh, seven, they finally said, all right, go and do it. Because I got tired of it. I mean, I was coming here all the time. I was like, I can drive around, right? So I mean, but I had, in the Marine Corps, I went to Urban War for us. I was an urban warfare instructor and stuff like that.

That's, like, my highest speed thing I did. And I was the assault climber, so you'd set up the lanes for battalions and climb cliffs and stuff like that at night. So I had, you know, some specialized, but, you know, nothing like SF guys. But anyways, so we went to Blackwater. I did, I think at the time, it was like a four-month train-up. Yeah. For it.

Real quick, I just want to educate the audience. So when we're talking about, back in those days, I don't know, it might still be like this. there was the COBRA contract and the CAPO contract under the OGA umbrella, other government agency, which is the CIA contract. And so the COBRA sector is basically static security base. You're assigned to a specific base, and you do all the perimeter and internals for that specific location. And with that being said, before we move on to the CAPO program, let's take a quick break.

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Visit patriotmobile.com slash SRS or call 972 Patriot. Use promo code SRS for a free month of service when you make the switch. All right, Tig, we're back from the break. We're getting ready. You just got picked up for the CAPO program, the mobile program at the agency. So it wasn't really smooth because this was like 07. And I had LASIC done when I was in 2002. My eyesight was like really good, like 2015 vision.

So we start going through it, start doing all the track. I can't remember exactly the. How did it the flow? But I think we did like the house stuff with the qualification at the last week of it and everything else like the shooting. So I was doing really good and all that was passing, you know.

The hardest one, I don't know if you remember, was the 25-yard shot concealed four seconds, two shots. That was kind of a pain. I was never really good with pistol, but it was good enough to pass. Dude, I just want to hear your whole training experience because I don't want to diminish anything that you've done.

or any conventional guys at all. But, I mean, I came out of the SEAL teams and I had maybe about a year-ish break where I tried to do some business stuff and failed miserably. And then wound up at that shitty armor group one and then wound up getting picked up. But I thought that that training package,

I think it was about a month long then. Yeah, it was tough. It was right around the same time frame because I left in 06, so it was 0708 maybe that I got to. in there. Yeah. And, um, that was fucking tough, man.

Those drills, walls were stiff. Yeah. And the timing. Holy crap. Working with new people, working with other branches that did things different. I mean, that was, that was challenging coming from where I came from with all that training. And so for you, I mean, what did you think of that?

I mean, for me, it was, I guess maybe just being molded by the core. You just kind of adapt and just do it. Is this how they want it done? I just do it that way. Because I think even though like even that night, I think even like Rohn and Jack kind of went back to their seal stuff for the moment. Just kind of like they were moving on the side of me going down. It was a little bit different than we were, but I just started kind of flowing with them.

They started flowing with me. And then they kind of broke off and did their thing together, which again, I still think because what Rone was 20 year seal. So I think you're still going to go back to some of that stuff But you still have I think since the training of it is so long You all have a base to fall back on so you kind of have an idea what the guys to the left and right and are going to do So I think that's what helpful but you know me doing like the vehicles and stuff like that I mean that was all new but you know who Jake Banta is

Yeah so I met him doing Cobra So I had a little bit of insight and a lot of what to your rest was doing the training-wise. So he kind of told me, okay, if you're going to go do this, here, take this, go practice this stuff. So I had 40 acres. I had more gun range. So I did a lot of practicing.

You got paid pretty good, but ammo was a lot cheaper then, too. So I had a bunch of ammo. I was just training every day, getting my speed up, getting all that, doing my pistols. So when I went there, I already had an idea. I pretty much knew what they were going to do, except for vehicles. CQB I wasn't worried about because, you know,

That was a month-long train-up I did just in the Marine Corps for CQB. So for me, that was easy. I just couldn't shoot everybody like I did in the Marine Corps. So, you know, then the hooded box drill, that was freaking epic. Yeah. That was fun. I did enjoy that part. Yeah, I thought that was a really good exercise.

That was. That was. What did you find to be the most challenging? Um, I think dealing with the story. staffers. Other than that, I mean the training. Just trying to remember all the, all the stuff so fast and, you know, just the, the wording on, you know, the vehicles, you know, content, just getting that knowing what to do, how to protect the package and stuff like that. That was kind of the hardest stuff, because a lot of that stuff kept changing from class to class for the most part, you know, tie them to you, don't tie to them, keep, you know.

And then the, the Deeter thing was kind of. kind of a pain in the ass. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it is what it is. Yeah. So we get to the final and my eyes started going bad. Like, I woke up and I couldn't like see that glass right, that, the, uh, your water bottle

right there. Oh, shit. I was like, holy crap. So I went into the eye doctor and paid like 500 bucks and get a prescription right away. So I could see. So I went through it, got it going. next morning, changed. So every day I had to keep going back to the eye doctor to pass.

And then finally my eyes, I don't know, about a month later, finally settled down. And so I kind of fought with that all the way up through, even through Benghazi my eyeballs. But I could always make sure I could see and stuff like that. So I end up getting like the hard, soft contact lenses and that really. So I worked with contacts over there quite a bit. But it was that, dude, that week, I don't know what. what was going on, but come to find out, and sorry, and I think it was 2017, about three months before I had to have transplants in my eyes, I had cornucosis.

What is that? Deterioration of your cornea. So I had to get for intacks, and there was something else. I forgot exactly what it was, but so they take these two plastic things. And they reshape your eye. So both my eyes got these plastic things in them. And then they put, anyway,

they put some other drop in there, hardens up your lens and stuff like that. And my eyes just kept fluctuating. And finally my right eye really started getting bad again. And they went in, my right eyes and artificial lens. Damn. So the fact that I can even still see,

even the eye doctor, you know, they put, I guess they're doing like, oh, they did a whole study on me in the eye doctor school. no in the eye doctor school whatever they want to call it if i had like school of optometry yeah that one i had like seven different surgeries on them so how many people made it through

your vetting do you remember or was the t dc it was it was uh tc uh it was i think only one person didn't pass no shit yeah damn when i went through there was only about three three or four of us that made it through. Yeah. And everybody else failed? It wasn't very bad. I think it was only like five of us anyways. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Wow. But so I almost fell because they gave me a mask where I couldn't wear my glasses. So when I was going in, they had the package dressed almost exactly like the aggressor. So I went in the room. I could, I was a 50-50 shot and I ended up shooting the package. And, uh, but I remember, luckily the other guys backed me up and they said he he kept asking you guys for a mask for his

glasses so they didn't send me home i had to go back through it one more time so i got one more chance to go through it and they said you better make it 100% clean it's like fuck man talk about tense dude yeah like now the eyes are just on me yeah so but i ended up making it through clean and it was a they they they ran me through the ringer on nose man because again And they're like, you can't shoot the package. Yeah. I mean, there's no second chance. You're done.

Yeah, that's, I think you're the only person I heard that got a second chance at that. Who was it? I want to see, I think it was Dusty was doing the train up. I think that's, I remember him. So, oh, yeah, he was running me to what, I was like, dude, what? And all the other guy stepped up, say, hey, he asked you for him. It doesn't, wouldn't fit. Damn.

Well, what did you think of the job when you got over there? Pretty boring. Where did you go? Actually, so my first two trips were actually in Iraq. Okay. The first one was the VVIP and then I was at the villa. The villa was just dumb. No, I think I might have did three trips.

Two trips were at the villa. It was just dumb. I didn't do anything. It was just going to the gym. I mean, I did like a midnight shift just in case the chief of station woke up in the middle of the night somebody had to take him. But they wouldn't, they wouldn't call me anyways. They'd just see the other guy.

So I was just like, whatever. So, but, you know, it was, uh, we had a couple of rocket attacks. I remember, uh, it was July. And, uh, not again, it's only, I don't think any of the, uh, GRS guys knew I was even there as GRS, honestly. Because I was just go hang out the Cobra guys because, you know, they're the cool guy crew. I was just, you know, anyways. So I remember being in the gym and there.

We're getting hit, and, you know, you go into the bunker. And I heard this one and just come in, you knew it hit. So I come out of the bunker and, you know, their staff's like, get it back in here. I was like, you know, whatever. So I go out and you can see, went, went down, it ended up hitting one of the trailers. And it's still smoky, still all that crap. So I start yelling anybody in there, anybody in there, start going in and end up being, I forgot what company worked for now, but you end up having a,

A piece of shrapnel just sticking out of his chest. So I kind of grabbed me. He was stumbling. He was trying to find his way out. But, I mean, it jacked up the whole front. There was no stairs, no nothing, no more. So I pulled him out, got him out, and I set him down. I was like, hey, is there anyone else in there?

So just kind of sit down and relax. You know, I didn't want to lay him down. So I sat him. He said, don't move, stay here. There's anyone else in there. He's just kind of like, you know, his bell was wrong. You know, he got two pods attached. So I go back in there and I start yelling, hey, anybody in here.

go back the other one, anyone in here? Nobody was in there, so I go back out, dude's gone. And I'm thinking, oh, shit. So I'm like, now I'm looking for this guy. He's got this piece of strap and those stuck it out. And then go around the corner and actually a couple of the GRS guys are headed that way and got a whole of them and sat them down. So I'm just kind of standing there, you know, kind of watching.

You know, you just kind of like, you know, kind of listen to everything going on. I already knew the trailer was kind of clear. That's the only one that got hit. And I don't want to say his name. I remember him looking up, man. He's, if you get GRS, you get the hell out of here. I'm like, okay. I went back to the gym,

starting working out again. So it was funny that, I went, I went to go back to do the requal, and he was there. He's like, were you GER, because he didn't you remember me,

because there's just some dude just standing there. He was like, are you serious? Why don't you say something? I didn't need to. You already, he already had him, the medical kit,

I just, what else am I do? Oh, jeez. So, and then, uh, then at the, again, didn't do anything there. Then over at the VVIP, really didn't do anything there either. What's the VBIP? It was just like the, uh, just part of the airport where they would fly in and fly out and stuff. Oh, okay.

But we would just run people to the airport. I mean, we'd do some, what they call black ops. first time I've learned about what actual black ops are. I was like, oh, okay. Anyways, that's the only thing we did out of there. And, but one of the, they called it the White House. It was where they did a lot of the, you didn't really say what they did in there,

but a lot of explosives were in there. Well, one of the guys was in there welding and a spark hit one of the RPG blankets and just, so we went over there we had to get that guy out and really that was about the biggest thing but that was over at the I mean he got jacked up he was not the front of him but the whole back side of him just got cooked damn yeah so he was he was pretty jacked up got him out of there but what was that one uh um gb base eagle base so I was I was there doing uh I think I

get in Iraq I got all the shit details I mean I was was I was the only non-SF guy there. So I'm like, you know what, this is Intig? Whatever. So I got to work out, you know, with those guys quite a bit. And that's when I, I can't remember his name, but what they call him, the wolf of Baghdad? That one, uh, tank commander, Marine. I don't know.

Uh, we have to look, but, uh, so I was there on watch that night, uh, when they were, because it was kind of cool because they had to be on the radio. I kind of help. Because sometimes their comms weren't. be all that great, so we'd kind of transmit it they couldn't hear. Well, that was, I was there that night when, uh, he was in the lead and, and he, him getting, uh, whacked, one of the G.B guys. And, uh, so that was, you know, he was a pretty well-known Marine at the time.

And I just, that was like when I first, when they were like saying, oh, he was a Marine, but he, I knew where he was working at. But when I saw it in the paper, it didn't say anything about what he was, I was like, okay, this is how they're doing this stuff. Gotcha. So it was kind of a weird, like, oh, okay. So that's when I finally, I kind of, my wife at the time, didn't know what I was working for.

You didn't tell your wife? But after I saw that, that's, I said, I'm going to tell her just because. What'd she say? He's like, oh, okay. You know, no big deal. You're a lot for the CIA? All right, whatever. I want to go play tennis.

So, but no, that was, yeah, so that was an experience. But again, those two trips, I was just like, this is so stupid. Then I got sent to Afghanistan for the first time as GRS. And again, I'd been in Afghanistan for a couple years now, you know. So I knew the area. So when you get there, the newer guys usually have to go out, you know, they're driving around, knowing the town. You know, my hardest thing was like knowing the street names, the circles and all that stuff. But I got it fairly quick.

And I remember, I don't really say who it was again. I don't like putting names out there. But I was, you're not supposed to be, you play a lot of call duty. You know you play a lot of call duty. He was, you know, I was sitting there playing. He comes in. He's like, what the fuck, Tig, what are you doing? What do you think you know the roads now?

I'm like, yeah. They already been like, I only been like a week and a half. Like, that's it. You're doing your test now. If you fail, you're out. Okay. went and he tried to get me he tried to stump me as best he could he goes because he didn't realize I think he had I think he had just kind of shown up but that was when I was over and actually I started

going to Harat I was doing I did a lot in Harat so I don't think he got a feeling I know who that was yeah heavy cop yeah he was second on my list yeah so Anyway, so he goes, he's like, how the hell do you know the city so? Well, I was like, I've been doing it since 0-4 out here. Oh. I was like, you know, I knew the damn city pretty. It just didn't get, didn't really know the names in the circles. I just knew how to get around.

So the hardest part of me was just knowing the names in the circles. Oh. So how long were you, you went direct, right? So I didn't go direct until, um, until, actually it was like mid 2011 so i was over in uh pakistan when the constant got attacked there and uh i guess from from that one a couple other guys that were like high in the food chain for grs that were direct or whatever saw my actions there that day and that's when they said they want me to go and do direct what happened that day uh the constant got attacked nothing

really major happen it was a the dude came in with the car bomb initially blew up then there's a second one that came in there was a i think six attackers came out and they're just kind of shooting in the air so we're inside the consulate and trying to figure out okay we're trying to get a hold of the the state department guys hey what's going on what do you see on your cameras they told us post one had been already breached we're like that's this that's serious so they're already inside the compound. So me and the other guy, you know, our gear was technically in our vehicle. That's where we just left it, you know.

After that day, we never left our stuff in the vehicles no more. So we end up rounding up our own, some other body armor, another weapon system. Then we go out. They haven't even breached the freaking outer perimeter yet. So we come out of the door like, we're ready to shoot. They're like, well, they're talking about bad intel. Holy crap, guys. So he goes to the front

I go to the back They're just kind of shooting up We're being told that the attackers They're in police and military attire So I got the back corner of the consulate And it's pretty close to some other buildings And I'm seeing dudes running around And cops and military uniform left and right

Am I going These are bad guys? They're not looking up They've got their guns But they're moving people So we're just kind of standing there And there's a big ass tree So we couldn't engage

there's a couple of DS agents that was up there I think there was two DS agents up there with me and the other guy and then a couple more on one of the other buildings I think there's only like three buildings at the consulate maybe two but then

probably about five minutes into this thing just they lit off like 1,500 pounds of T&T to collapse the building dude it wasn't it was pretty crazy and then they asked me if I got knocked out or not.

I remember getting up off the ground, but I don't remember if I was knocked out or not. I just remember a guy got smacked by one of those big AC panels. And, yeah, that was, other than that, that's really all that happened. Me, body parts from these guys are flying all over the place. The funniest one, actually is two, well, maybe not funny, but it is funny. One of the dudes got, you know, the fences had the gaps in them. One of the dude's body was just like impelled. The other guy had his upper torso, finger in his nose.

It was just kind of funny. Yeah, that's all they always are, his finger in the nose. Oh, geez. But, I mean, that was really it that happened. But after that, I guess they didn't get, and you don't hesitate. I guess they're like, oh, you're all right, you can go to direct. And that's kind of when I went to direct. Where did you go when you, did you go right to Libya?

No. I pretty much went back to pack. Went there a couple more times. and then it was over to Libya. So from there, we flew in, flew into Mugazi that evening. Actually, we started driving with the chief of station from Benghazi when we landed up to Tripoli. So we stopped in Mastrata, stayed the night. I've never really knew anything about Tripoli except for freaking the Marine Corps song.

You know, so we're just kind of driving, taking turns, you know, through that hotel I don't think anybody slept you know it's just a hotel it ain't like it's a safe location yeah you're just trusting the locals man so you know

we did the fire watch thing and yeah get up to Tripoli we stayed in like another hotel then we opened up a compound I see you opened it yeah I didn't realize that

yeah so the agency was there first. Actually, we went to the old embassy, went around there. I picked up a couple of the security procedure books that they left behind. It says classified on it. Whatever. I picked them up and made sure I brought them back. I don't know how, yeah, I mean, everything was still in them. Like, I guess I couldn't read English. So I brought those back to our compound. But now then stayed there. They found the, yeah, then helped open up the embassy. Then I left. And And then I went back, when I came back, that's when I went back down to Mungazi, which is good because I don't like the flagpole. So at the time, it wasn't the flagpole because there was only four of us that did all the GRS guys that went up there.

Then as I was leaving, two more guys came in because they were getting ready to open up the, I actually got to walk through the other, the permanent CIA annex. And again, I think it was like eight houses, all head. had pools. I mean, it was nice. So that's the one that they, uh, they aired on TV saying it was the, uh, embassy that they broke into. They're jumping off the, the balcony into the pool. That was the agency's compound. Interesting. I never went over there. Yeah. It was, it was nice. I heard it was. Um, but yeah, then I went down there and yep, did a lot of stuff down there. They went down and we did one of the, um, yellow cake sites, I guess, for Gaddafi, where you had,

a bunch of the nuclear crap down there. And other than that, he did some runs to, I wouldn't think, I would say burn, well, I don't remember, but the city close to Egypt.

I can't remember the name of it now. But other than that, I mean, it was pretty relaxed. I mean, even in Tripoli, didn't really get too many stink eyes like you did in other places,

but Benghazi was different, man. They would shake, they'd come and shake your hand. Like, like, thanks for, your help, thanks for getting them out. If you're in a coffee shop, or getting food, somebody would probably try to buy it for you. No kidding. It was weird. They're very grateful.

So definitely a different environment anywhere else I've been. How long were you there before that happened? So the first two trips, the first trip was three months, and then the second one was two months. Then my twins were born premature. So that kind of pulled me out early. So if it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have been in Benghazi when 9-11 happened. So, yeah, so I was on my fourth trip down there when 9-11 hit. And that last time, I mean, it was fairly quiet for the most part. I think Iran had just kidnapped a few people at that time. But a lot of some politicians, you know, they're trying to kill them.

This is the first election, like 30 years. the police chiefs, I think a couple of police chiefs got whacked when I was there. Other than that, I mean, threat towards us really wasn't there. But Bob, you know, it was just, I don't know. It's hard to explain how what, yeah, it's just hard to explain Bob. Just very risk adverse and really, I don't think you understood our capabilities. Can you tell the audience who Bob was? So Bob was the chief of base in Benghazi.

The head guy. Yep, the head guy. So, well, in Benghazi, then he had the chief of station, which just oversees the whole country. But, yeah, he was the head guy in Benghazi at the time. And, you know, when I talked about earlier, about the, even before the consulate, do you remember when the British ambassador got attacked? No. So he got attacked in between one of my trips.

And, again, Bob was there, but a different team leader. And Bob told him, no, you can't go. And the team leader at that time told him the power. And they left. And there's the only reason why one of the security guys even survived because they were able to render him medical aid. Right on. So, and there was a time when we had, uh, the deputy chief and a linguist, they were probably

almost about an hour away from us and they got hemmed up at a checkpoint. And, uh, we're like, you know, we need to get over there. We get in the area. I mean, we don't go in their guns blazing. It's just, you don't do that. It's just in case something goes south after at the checkpoint, we can help intervene. He wouldn't even let us leave the compound to go help

to get in the area. That's just the type of person he was. Man. So again, for like the stand-down order, it was just him. And, well, there's more of more to it now that I know of, thanks to Sarah. So.

Did you know Sarah when you were over there? Oh, yeah. Work with her in a few other places. She likes getting people whacked. Yeah, she's really good at it. She still likes getting people whacked. I see people trying to go after her, especially on X and stuff. Oh, you're fake.

You're like, dude, she's far from that. And I worked with her a lot of different places. We got some people whacked. We just brought her on the team. Did she tell you that? Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it. We've gotten pretty tight ever since that first interview. She's freaking, she knows what she's talking about.

Yeah, she does, man. She does. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm really excited. excited about it. So you've worked with her several times in different locations. Where else did you work with her at? Mainly in Pesh.

I think that was my funnest place. Why do you say that? Oh, man, because we got some HVTs whacked in that place. Nice. And it's cool. A lot of the places you go, like, they don't tell you about, like, what you're doing, why you're doing it for the most part. They're like, oh, yeah, we're going after this guy.

This is how we're going to do it. This is what, you know, I need you to take this, do this. So you got more involved in actually getting these dudes whack. It was awesome. Nice. So I think it was, and it was like you're always working. I mean, it was always work. You liked working.

Oh, yeah. It was great. You didn't like the flagpole booze cruises. No. Time just goes by too slow. Yeah, I didn't like that either. I like to work. Yeah.

So that's what you're over there for, man. They were there to work, get things done. You know, I remember we almost got, we almost got killed at a restaurant, but an asset called about a half hour before the meet and said, it's an ambush. They're going to kill you when you're there. So we pulled, we still went and did counter surveillance, and sure is shit. They pulled in there and went in, but they didn't, their head,

the lead guy, we can see, they're stupid because they all got out of, like, the Haji van, and they're, like, standing there, and the one guy walked in, and then walked out, and he can tell he's, like, throwing his hands up, and they got back in, and they left. There are six of them, all AKs, hodgied out. Yeah. Well, let's get into the night of the September 11th. You ready?

What day is that? Yeah. What do you want to know? The short version or the long version, or just the... The long version. So... Well, Sarah was there, and actually I was doing this one, kind of like gathering stuff. She showed me how to use this one of the, one of the equipments.

And I ended up actually having that there when we went, we took the deputy, the chief of base, deputy chief of base and another case officer that morning over to a meeting with the local intel service, which is the first time they ever met them. And it was the first time they ever been to this location, would actually have to be right across the street. from the consulate on the second floor. And so I had this thing, you know, it was running, you know, collecting all the data. People were on their phone and stuff. And, you know, and I actually took it in the office with me because I went upstairs and just kind of, because I just want to see what they could see. And I'm just remembered red flags going off.

Like, they have this thing right across the street. They can see inside the comp. You can see everything. I was like, this is just weird. And, you know, I sat there for a little bit. Then I went outside. as a vehicle was just out in the parking lot and unsecured for the most part

so I didn't want to leave it alone I was the only one so I went back out there kind of hung out in the vehicle just watching the door and watching whatever you could well they come out and they're talking

and we're like hey you need to take us over to the consulate it's like okay no problem and as we're going I can come to find out that they got a intel that there's going to be an attack on a government facility that day. So when the ambassador was there,

he just got in there the night before. So it was kind of like to inform him. This was early morning still, I think it was even before breakfasted. It was pretty early. Go over there, let him know, just in case he was going to plan on doing any more off base. Because I think Roan and Jack had a movement with him that day.

Because we were augmenting our security. We shut everything down so we could help them on their moves. So I think that kind of shut one of his moves off that was supposed to be off base So I kind of come back and you know I take the That thing that I had it. I was like that's probably pretty good and I downloaded it all into a USB drive And I put it in my locker waiting for Sarah to come back because it was you know that's the targeting package kind of a thing And so anyways not thinking of thing of it rest of day goes by normal I think Oz was the only one who had a movement

that day besides me with the female case officer and it was like some kind of meeting she couldn't cancel and the next morning me and rome were supposed to be part of the detail that took the ambassador to the persian oil golf company and when rome was talking with them and they're like well we're just going to let the local driver drive us do the route we're like no we're not So I was like, I think I know exactly what they're talking about, you know, because again, I've been there longer, I've drone, you know, and actually I think I did a meet there once. But anyway, so I went there, we found exactly where it was at. We did a couple routes kind of checking, like checkpoints or block roads, because they were still kind of doing each neighborhood at its own little click. So we're trying to make sure which neighborhood we could flow through nice.

We figured it out on our way back. Roan calls the DS agent. say, hey, we got the, we got the route. Do you want us to stop by now and we can go over it? Or do you want to wait until the morning? Because we're like, we're not, the driver is not going to dictate how we're going to go. I mean, you got an HVT with you and you're going to let a local, like, oh, hell, no. So, so they said, nah, we'll just wait until tomorrow.

We were driving by the consulate and, you know, it's nice and quiet. And, you know, nobody's out in the road. There's no big protest. And, you know, you're looking between 839 or something like that. we go back we get to the the team the team room uh team leader hushes in there and kind of let let him know what's going to happen because we're probably going to leave early you know so we can go and explain to them our route and time it and all that stuff so that they know where we're going case something happens i go to bed they're still up there jibber jabbering um jack he's

on the on the computer talk of skyping with his wife and you know he just found out that uh he his wife was pregnant, I think, with their third kid. And, you know, I'm just kind of getting undressed. And next thing you know, here, hey, all GRS to the team room. Just that call. This is from hushes on the radio. They're just kind of like, okay, so I'll just kind of get out of bed, you know, and go to put my flip-flops on.

And like, I need all GRS to the team room now. So I start moving a little bit quicker. So I'll go figure out there. and so I'm in building four and then you have building three which is the command post and you have building one or building two

which is Tanto and O'D's house and then building one which is actually what's where Oz was staying which was the chahal that was in the very front of the compound or the front gate I guess you could say

you can hear gunfire going off stuff like that you can hear a couple explosions but it's Benghazi there's a wedding hall trying to tell people the wedding hall right there, you'd hear people gun, you know, they'd shoot stuff off. Then he, then he comes up to me, he says, hey, we need to get ready to roll. The consulate's been overrun.

A lot of people kind of, they don't understand, like, they think it's being attacked. No, they're, he's saying it's being over, it's been overrun. So that means they're already in the compound by the time we get the call. Inside the gates. Inside the gates. So that's how fast had happened. So I run back, tell Jack, we get our stuff on, we come out, uh, Tonto and OD, they were the QRF, so they're, you know, they're dressed, ready to go.

And I think Rohn grabbed one of the vehicles and the Tonto grabbed the other one. So they were already staged by the time, I mean, Jack finally came out. And that's when I overheard, you know, how many attackers are there? They're saying anywhere between 50 to 150. So there's, they're all over the place. And I'm thinking, you know, we got an M4. So I ran into the team room. I grabbed the grenade launcher and the belt fed machine.

gun brought them out you know started doing function checks on that went in the vehicle i'm in the backseat uh roans the driver jack is the passenger you know just kind of check and checking the trigger okay making sure i know which way's safe which way's not safe you know then you know check and gain launch and checking the trigger and uh we're just kind of still sitting there and it's like going you know these guys you know they're digging in you know they're they're gonna they're gonna get the initiative, we're going to lose it. So I get out of the vehicle and I remember it's it's a Bob, hush, and the deputy chief of base. They're all on the front porch. And I was out on the passenger side and I said, hey, you know, we get to get over there. We got to get get over there now.

We're losing the initiative. It's going to take us a lot harder to get onto this compound and rest of these guys. And Bob goes, no stand down. You need to wait. I'm like, what the fuck, what the fuck are we waiting for? You know, there's nothing to wait for. We need to get over there. and he's like, we need to come with the plan. We can't come with the plan fucking sitting here. We got to come with the plan with their eyes on the, on the target. There's nothing we can do from here. We know the lay out of the compound.

And that's when hush goes, TIGs, you know, shut up, get back in the car. So, fine, I get back in. And, you know, it's armored. So they couldn't hear what's going on. I closed the door and I got out. I said, hey, Bob just told us to stand down. And you can just tell right then. They're like, he's not going to let you go.

That's what it meant. Well, what Sarah and what OD would have been doing further out the years is actually digging into actually what happened more than investigation. Well, weeks prior to the attack, 17 Feb had told Bob, the commander had told Bob that they were, if something ever happened, they were never going to show up. That night, Bob actually got a hold of him before he told me to stand down that they weren't going to show up. that's why we're told to stand down and then you know for them to sit and say oh there's no evidence of a stand down order what the hell is that but again how can you rely on it's a hostage rescue is what it is you're gonna said 17 feb in there which is which is worse than sending the boy scouts in to do a hostage rescue some of these guys with the watching the state department train don't

even know how to reload a freaking rifle so it's like we are the own and like in the movie we are the only helped that they had. We're the only support that would, that could have made a difference. And that stand down order is the one percent guarantee is why Ambassador Stephen and Sean Smith didn't make it. They're dead because of that stand down order. Damn, man. Well, people say, well, how, how do you know that for a fact? Well, we, they'd have been engaging with us instead of setting the buildings on fire. They died of a smoke inhalation. They didn't die from, you know, blunt force trauma, a gunshot. They died from the smoke from the fire.

So, so we end up, you know, it came down to, I think it was Alec on the radio, the State Department guy said, if you guys don't get here now, we're all going to fucking die. And that was it.

Rowan just put it in drive. We started driving. Hush gets on the radio. Wait, wait, wait, I'm coming. We were leaving his ass. We were done waiting. We were done asking for permission. It hush is the team leader.

For the audience. Hush is the, Team leader for the GRS unit in Benghazi. And his name's not classified because it's in the Congress Congressional. It's a call sign anyways. Yeah. So we leave. We get over there.

I immediately engaged with the grenade launcher. Fire three rounds, which that disperses the attackers, which has allowed us to move on to the compound. Who did you fire them at? The attackers. So they're way out of range from the grenade. launcher but it's still they didn't I think they may have thought it was mortars coming in they don't you know from what I heard they had no idea what it was because they've never been shot at like that with something like that before it was just a 40 mic mics so they dispersed I went back to the

vehicle put the grenade launcher in because I had no sling for it normally I had to attach I was just those things you know you do your own debrief for yourself right I should attach it right back to the gun. So it was what happened. Normally it was attached to one of the rifles, but we had a temporary team leader that came in and took him off, took it off the rifle because he's like, well, nobody else can use it. Just grab the damn gun that's had it.

It doesn't matter. Anyways, so I put it in there. Otherwise, I'd have had it with me too, the whole night. But grab the belt fed and then Roan and Jack just followed me. We went down the road. Pause just outside. Because again, we haven't really heard from State Department yet. I just kind of got on it because we had, now we're on the same channel as them.

I got on the radio just to let them know, hey, we are coming on. Kind of like, hey, don't shoot us. So when I said that, Roan got up and started taking off. Jack got up and moved in as I was starting to follow behind them because, you know, the agency, we have all the high tech here, right? You know, we got the throat things, the brain things that feed the radio, right? No, we have to still, we have the old school. clip-ons worse than freaking law enforcement. So I'm trying to clip this radio back on my gear

because for a whole high speed. So they're running in front of me next day. You know, I started getting shot at. So I dropped down. The militiamen that were with us, well, actually at that corner when we showed up, they actually followed us down. I didn't realize that at first. They opened up on fire and whoever's firing at me because I was just kind of looking down. So I didn't know where the gunfire came from. So I dropped. Well, while they were firing, I was able to move up to a jersey barrier and get the machine gun up and i was getting ready to start to put my nods back i was going to put my nods down when some local just walks out of the darkness hands up 17 feb don't shoot don't shoot it's just like where the fuck this guy just come from

you know again i don't know no uniform no nothing so he could have been the one shooting i have no idea so look at the guy next to me you know a little little hodgey guy you know just he looks at me, he just kind of shrugs and like, okay, whatever. I don't dirka, Durka, so I just kind of got up, moved into the compound. And the first thing you see is the main village is engulfed in flames, black smoke coming out, the building off to the right, which ended up being the 17-5 Martyrs Brigade. That was the, that was the QRF that the State Department was relying on in case something happened.

So they had four guys that stayed there. But from what I heard, they actually, those four guys actually did shoot back a little bit before they took off. So for what I heard, they actually did try to fight. I don't know for sure. But anyways, that building was completely engulfed. And I just kept, you know, going as I'm going forward, there's a guy walking from that building. And I don't know, you know, who's all in a State Department compound, no weapon, no nothing. Just walking, you know, flip flops, white shirt, just nonchalant.

I'm just like, this is so freaking had this out here just happened. And oh, before we got down there all the way, we had a loco who came out of his house and was, had his cell phone in his hand and was yelling at us in Durka, Durka. We're just looking at it. We're like telling him, get back, get back. And finally we just had to keep going. So that, that guy's shooting at us. This guy here. I'm like, what the hell?

It's just some weird stuff. So you can't just shoot anybody, you know, we're not cops. We just don't shoot anybody. Just kidding. So I go up, and I hear banging going on instead of, I don't know where everybody's really at. So now I'm out here by myself. You know, some local dude behind him, you know, I'm watching him just making sure he doesn't pull anything. He never did.

And there, you know, they had like a horseshoe fighting position. So I go up there and I'm just kind of sitting there, kind of just assessing, listening to sounds, watching this big orchard area that's all pitch black. I go to put my NVGs on. I couldn't because some of the spotlights were. kind of like shining up high. So it just floods them out. So you can't, the night vision goggles are pretty much worthless.

Maybe if I had your super secret, you know, 10 goggle ones that have been better, but. Doubt it. But, uh, so I'm sitting there getting no, no communication on the radio next day. I know I hear a vehicle starting up. I'm thinking like, what the fuck. Oh, so many stealing a, they're all up armored. You know, they don't have any like, like we did, you know, up on our. So I'm thinking, oh, yeah, I got a belt-fed machine gun, got it up-armored.

Oh, I'm going to shoot the shit out of this car, right? So I can see it. It's coming down the road. The lights are off. There's no lights on it. So I'm thinking, oh, yeah, they're trying to be sneaky or something. So I come out from the side of the sandbag, and I kind of got it up. Vehicle comes, it turns.

Dude, I got the slack coming out of this freaking, the saw. And I'm like, oh, it's going to be awesome. And next thing you know, I see dude lean forward and ended up being Dave Ubin, State Department guy. I was like, God, you got to be kidding me. I mean, how many people could get to blast a government vehicle not get in trouble? Dude, I was, I was like, yeah. So that didn't happen. And then they backed up.

I moved up, kind of followed them, because I didn't know what the hell was going on. I mean, no comms whatsoever going on. And that's when I ended up, uh, linking up on the road. He was standing up on the front porch and I kind of talking with them. And he's like, yeah, they don't know where the ambassador is. And I kind of look over off to my right and there's a, they have one guy laying there. And then Jack's kind of over the top, you know, kneeling down over him, look like he's trying to provide first day. And I go, you know, who that is?

Is it one of ours? He says, I have no idea. And I was like, well, hopefully it's one of theirs. You know, then like, kind of goes like, well, I guess we got to clear this area now. And that was like, that was like, I guess we got to clear this area now. And that was like, like the main villa area and it's i mean it was huge inside so we kind of move in pitch dark hotter than hotter than hell i mean it was so freaking hot it's kind of like being a uh like just like a major bonfire but being right next to it the whole time that's i mean it was

just intense heat um moved couldn't see anything you know flashlight made it even worse so you're just kind of going by feel i go in um i think three times i went in and out i don't know if i don't if Roan never came back out that many times. But last time I went in, I was like, okay, I'm just going to, because I had kind of the layout, because I'd been there a few times already. So I just went to where I knew where the safe room door was. It was kind of like the outer door was open, but the bars were closed. And I yelled for Chris, I think twice as loud as I could.

And actually somebody named Chris outside, I could hear where it's coming from. He's like, oh, I'm out here. like that's not you know Stevens so I start moving back out I get out and you know just that shouting you know taking those breaths and shout him I'm taking so much freaking smoke so I'm hacking then I hear Rohn he's inside saying I'm lost I can't find my way out I'm lost so I go back in and we just did a little Marco Polo thing and got him then we kind of just moved out and they're still going in and out of the safe because when we come out the safe rooms like right here and uh the you know they're still kind of going in and out of that

room and that's when uh um tonto gets on the radio says hey we're getting ready to jump the back gate so myself and rhone we moved from there over to uh the the road that separated the two compounds and started you know putting security up there remember ron coming up said hey you know thanks you know thanks for saved my life and i'm like well i hope you know i hope we can all make this out of life It was kind of like something like that. Because initially, I didn't tell anybody about the Rohn incident because to me, that was just, who would believe it anyways? Well, I guess Rohn ended up telling Oz about it because when I told the story to the author, he's like, well, what about this? It's like, how the hell do you know about that?

So, but to me it's like putting stuff in that to where it's only my word versus a guy who's not even here. So I was just kind of like, well, I'm not putting that in there. Yeah. But anyways, so they end up jumping over, but unfortunately when, uh, no, nothing really major happened, but from it, but the locals that went with Tonto and them didn't want to jump the back gate. So they had Tonto open up the back gate. Tonto said, hey, you know, when you come in, close the back gate, well, they didn't.

So we went over there, cleared the other side, came back. I started searching in the, in the safe room for, didn't really know the layout of the safe from whatsoever. I kind of went in there a couple of times trying to get the blast, the blast shield things open so we can open up more windows to flood the smoke out so we can search easier. Because honestly, I didn't even think we'd get a follow-on attack. I figured that had been kind of it, like, you know, again, thinking 17

Feb's going to show up, the police are going to show up, they're going to lock this place down, right? He just had a U.S., he's had an embassy, or not, but an embassy, a foreign embassy in your country just got attacked. In my mind, you're going to shut this city down, right? So I wasn't honestly really wasn't thinking too much about a fall on attack. So went in a couple of times, kind of came back out, hushed at the time. I think it was like the third time I came back out.

Well, the first time I went in, I smashed my night vision goggles. Because again, they're up here, not thinking about it. Just trying to go into this window, freaking smashed, shattered them. So lost those, jacked my neck up, but came back out. And he's kind of, you know, he got all the State Department guys. And they're gathering up, trying to figure out what they're going to do. He's getting them in the vehicle. He's kind of like, I get on the radio and say, hey, I'm going to go in one more time.

And he says, no, just stand by, you know, I think because we're probably going to evacuate or something. I just said, you know, fuck this. You know, I took my helmet off, took my body armor off, grabbed my flashlight, put my weapon down. Finally learned what I was taught in elementary school. Get on your freaking belly. get on your belly if there's a fire it works i mean i could see i mean it wasn't it was only like this much but i could see pretty far i could see the other doors i crawled went into uh out of that room went into the bathroom looked around the shower the tub living in the other room uh looked under

the bed you know felt on top of the bed there was a couple cabinets open just in case they went into it the closet and then as i was coming out an r pg smacked the wall with the room i was in that was that was that was loud And that's what that started the second attack on the consulate. And it was pretty much just kind of kiddie corner. It was just like the door was here. The other safe room door where I was at was like over here. So I just kind of got up and just ran that way, jumped out, put my gear back on. Then I peeked around the corner to see where the fight was coming from and was coming towards the back gate.

There was a ladder that went up to the roof, got up on the roof, and let the just let the, just let the, let everybody know, hey, I'm on the roof just in case if something happened, I got shot. They don't have to go searching for me. So I start moving to where the fire was coming from. You know, they all have like the three foot walls around the top. So it's pretty easy to move up. As I came up, the guy who was shooting an RPG was coming, came back into the front of the gate and getting ready to launch. I just did about a 10, 15 round volley of fire.

He drops and all the fire stopped. Oz and who else got to see Oz and actually Hush said that I guess that volley of fire that I did Nelled the RPG and actually did a whole ramble thing went off in 90 degree angle

so that's how good a shot I am I can hit an RPG fly to the air so that stops you know everybody kind of starts coming up on the roof because we're still trying to figure out what we're going to do the State Department guys one thing that kind of irritated me was, and while the attack started, Tanto went and got behind their vehicle for, you know,

protections, an up armored vehicle. Well, they actually honked a horn so they can get him off the vehicle so they could take off. So again, this is their compound. They didn't even think of jumping out and helping us defend their compound. They took off. Jeez. So they leave. They ended up going the wrong way.

They got ambush. I mean, they made it to our commons. but it, you know, they got followed all the way to our compound. We're still there. Nobody still, no, no, they didn't know if the ambassador was kidnapped. I took off on foot. No idea if you were still in the buildings. Again, we had no idea.

So we're just trying to figure out what we're going to do. Then, uh, they got word from the drone that was, that came overhead that there's about 100, 150 people moving towards us. So again, we had like six of us. a linguist that looked like a turtle because of the body armor and the helmet were just way too big for him and then two, three dozen unknown people with us

some in uniform some not some in shorts, some with guns, some with no guns it was just weird man so it was just like one of those moments that, you know, they made the call, we got to go so we all get down we loaded up Sean's body into our vehicle the department guys left him with us

so we had Rome was driving it was hush Jack the linguist Tonto myself O.D. and Sean's body in the back

so we go we pull out we go back the way we came in the one of the other vehicle that we had we had a leap we left it because the three of us went on foot so that vehicle that stayed but that's also where the grenade launcher was so if you watch the damn movie I didn't lose a grenade launcher that was bullshit that was

shit. I knew exactly where it was. But there was like, again, dozens so people around the vehicle, we had no idea who they were. You know, they could have been part of the attack. So instead of us breaking seal, potentially all getting killed right there, because they had, you know, gun trucks with discus mounted to them. There's, you know, not what we can do with that. So we just kept going right on by it. Like we're just neighbors. So, what's going through your head when they tell you 100 to 150 people are moving towards you? It's like, oh, that's a lot.

people you know it's you're just like hoping they don't hit you i mean one thing i've learned though is what i try to tell people is they're shooting at you you're probably not going to get hit it's the one it's the ones that's shooting at somebody else is the ones that's going to hit you because i really rarely see them just kind of shoot like we do they kind of do the whole spray prey thing so yep so we get back to our compound we dismount and i we get attacked probably within about an hour. What's the discussion like when you get back to your compound? Really wasn't.

It was just, we just dismounted and kind of went to pre-designated positions to defend the compound. You know, especially since they just came back and tried to hit us, you know, well, they're coming back for a third time at the consulate. So it's like, there's no, this is going to be a long night. So we just got out and we just kind of, Jack went, uh, he was already there. So he had the state department guys when he got there. he put one on each of the buildings besides building one the two other guys one of the guys got pretty jacked up from smoke inhalation that was with the ambassador and sean smith he's you know

he made it out alive um but then the other i don't know why the other guy didn't come out but anyways so there were uh three state department guys up on the roofs we had four local guards and then we had two um spos with us as well so they were like they did all like the gate stuff and uh the monitoring of the cameras. So they were kind of, so the base was kind of secure for the most part. But we just kind of went and filled those gaps.

I went to Tower 2. Oz went to Tower 3, Rome and went to building 3, Jack 4, and OD and Tonto went to building 2 so we can kind of cover the zombie lens, what we called it. That's where we kind of figured

because the other one was just Chuck points. Coming up that road, I mean, you didn't have to be in the front to really take care of that. I mean, it was just really easy. So, but I end up moving from Tower 2 to Tower 3, and during this move is when we got attacked. I was actually carrying water to Oz when something came over the wall. Probably exploded about 25 feet from me.

Something like that was pretty close. Didn't get hit by nothing, but dropped the water, kind of like trying to protect myself. And I'm pat, you know, gunfire's going on, but I'm just, adrenaline's rushing you, and sometimes you know, you're hit. So I'm just checking myself, say, okay, I'm not hit. get up in there, you know, and just start returning fire. Lasted, you know, felt like forever, but probably like five, ten minutes. You know, maybe 20, 15 attackers.

You know, but unlike the movie, they had a lot of concealment. So a lot of times you can only see the flashing. They're just shooting through shrubs. They're not in front of it. They're behind it. So even the night vision, you couldn't see them. So, you know, we didn't have the cool infrared crap, which is night vision. But, and repelled that one, and that was probably about, I think they said, like,

1.30 in the morning or something like that, 1, 1.30. That's about the time they found the ambassador's body. He was inside the consulate in his room, is where they found him. And the locals didn't know who he was, but the neighbor. was there. When he saw him, he actually grabbed him. And I got to see the actual camera footage from a cell phone. You can see it in his eyes. He was already gone. He wasn't alive. But from the moment he grabbed the ambassador, dragged him up, threw him in his car, took him to the hospital. You know, pretty much the camera was just almost on his face the whole time. I mean, it was moving

around. But yeah, you know, that whole, there's a lot of things that people said, you know, that he was raped, mutilated, and tortured. That never happened to him. That's all bullshit. none of that stuff ever happened. That's one other thing that kind of forced us into the book is that stuff never got corrected. So, anyway, so they found him about that time, but it wasn't verified until about three in the morning that it was actually him when we got the pictures of him

in the video. So as we're sitting there, we heard that the team from Tripoli had just landed at the airport, but the militia that was supposed to show up, didn't show up yet and this is when we got the second attack is about three in the morning now um same same same type of attack when r pg started coming over the back of the wall there was a car that actually that pulled up yeah i wasn't the tower i was actually talking with the t-l um at the time and because what i was trying to do because they uh they had everybody

else kind of go into the rooms and get into personal belongings so it was like if we're going to evacuate we need to get our own stuff so So I went and got my stuff, and I was kind of talking with the T.L. at the time, and that's when I knew about the ambassador and all that stuff. And then a car somehow got towards the back gate where the Jersey Berries were, so it couldn't get two of us. It was about 50 yards or something like that. Dude gets out.

Oz sees him. He goes to go throw something, Oz drops him. And that's when the RPG flies over, and I head back over to the tower, engage. That's when I end up getting some guys moved around from the, they flanked us. that's the only maneuver they did. And so I ended up getting shot in the side. Plate stopped it. It still hurts.

Let me tell you, it still hurts. Now, unlike the movie, I didn't lay down and sit there for five minutes like a little baby. You know, it kind of buckled me, put my hand up underneath, making sure I didn't fill a hole. I mean, it was wet because I'm freaking sweating. I didn't feel no hole, but it hurt. It felt like I was still shot.

It didn't fill a hole, and I just got back in it. Then end up checking myself after. you know, after it was done, making sure it wasn't actually shot. But in that firefight probably lasted a little bit longer. It was probably double the guys that showed up. But I think Tonto and O.D.,

and even the camera guys said they could see them, you know, some dudes crawling on their hands, some people getting dragged out. So we were hitting them. But, you know, it was pretty quiet. The team from Tripoli, the militia showed up. Tantam, from building two over to building one to guide them in and that's where the whole laser we're

you know i laser two guys but it wasn't to um to identify them as targets it was to let them know that they were my target they keep coming closer i'm gonna shoot you and then tonto used it because that was actually that was just a live laser it was let them know like you need to walk in this way because they had no guns but we had uh again the the sheep herders they were still come dude it was weird. They were still coming, showing up, and herding the damn sheep. Are you serious? Dude, it was so weird. While all this is going on?

Yeah. I know. So anyway, so Tompton moved up. He did the lasso thing so they can kind of, they had our coordinates, but just to guide him in a little bit better. So he was just lassoing him in with the IR. So that's where that whole, we're lasering targets. No, we weren't.

Anyways, so they come in, they get there. They go in, the team from Tripoli and the militia commander go into the compound and go to the, you know, inside the command post. Why they let this militia guy in there? I don't know. But anyways, then Bub, you know, he knew that Roan was there. I guess they worked in the teams together and stuff like that. Said, hey, you know, where he's at.

And, you know, so he went up. Ron was there introducing him to Dave Ubin and Oz and kind of, I guess, explained what was going on when what I heard. what's sounding like a mortar going off. It's kind of like that thum. You know, it's kind of hard to explain people. When you're next to it's really loud, when you're not, you can kind of tell what it is, especially when you're in infantry.

You do a lot of mortars. And I'm getting ready to click the radio. When Tonto gets on, it beats me to it. Hey, I think I just heard a mortar, and he wants hear that. And I key the radio, I said, yeah, and that's when the round hits. And it hit probably, you know, 25,

I would say, yards west and 25, yards north from building sea small arms fire opened up the same time and then those guys opened up so i just kind of look and i see the explosion so i go back to my area just in case he's getting you're waiting for more attacks like you're just you know you got to trust the guys they they trust me to watch that side so then i hear another one going off don't ask me how i can hear these things but that one comes in it hits kind of tags the top of the wall but blows up on the other side. So, you know, I'm looking at the explosion.

That ended up taking out Dave Ubin because he had taken his helmet off and he got a bunch of shrapnel to the forehead. So that dropped him. Then I heard another round going off. And to me, from my angle, that one hits here. That one hits here. I'm thinking, because they want to come to this area,

they're trying to take out the tower. So I jump out of the tower and I start moving back to what we call the prison gym. And the round comes and it hits the top of the building. And I guess two more hit right. behind it and you know everything just goes quiet so i'm looking at the building i'm like holy shit so i get on the radio immediately say hey you guys up on building three you guys okay hush gets on the radio says yeah we're okay in here i'm like you shut the fuck up i'm talking about

the guys on top of the building jack gets on the radio he's over on uh building four which is closest to building threes is hey tig i got no movement i can't see anybody moving so i start sprinting over there, um, start going up the ladder. Again, with the small arms, you know, the wall, you know, it doesn't go all the way up. So as I start, uh, getting the crest of the wall, I'm checking my six and, you know, as much as I can still go fast. And then I just kind of jump over over here on the left hand side is one guy. He's got his pistol out. So I start talking to him immediately. Um, say, you know, what I, you know, say, hey man, you can be okay. You know, say calm i gotcha gotcha had my uh actually ended up having got oz's go bag instead of mine um

his mind got left in the vehicle over at the consulate i didn't lose that either he got left in the vehicle so i start going through oz's stuff trying to figure out where his turnicets are and stuff like that because jack um ubin his uh left leg left arm almost completely circled off i mean it was just shredded so if you actually watch the movie and they show oz's arm and stuff that's what Dave Ubin's leg and arm looked like. It was just shredded. So I go for his leg first, start getting it on, you know, and then before I started this, I got on the radio, said, hey, guys, I got men down, I need help up here.

Then I started going to work, finding things, and got the tourniquet on him, got the second tourniquet on. I'm trying to look him over. It's still dark out, and it's kind of like the blue light kind of a thing, so it's not light enough to really see, but you can kind of see shadows. So I'm trying to look at them as close as I can without busting the flashlight out because those are pretty accurate, freaking mortar.

So there's got to be a spotter somewhere. So for God, it's again a spotter or somebody who sees what we call a splash, which is the impact. And then they tell the mortar team how to adjust. So that's what I was afraid of. So they see movement, they're going to relaunch them or something. So I have no idea why they stopped. So I look them over as best I can.

I said, all right, right now is the best I can do. I got to, because I know there's dudes with other stuff got to be blown up. And I grab my stuff, get on the radio, say, hey, I got guys down. I need help. I go to turn. That's when Dave said, hey, give me back my gun. I'm thinking, oh, fuck. You know, you always, you know, you always taught, you know, don't get somebody back.

Especially when they give back their gun when their bell's been rung that bad. But I also thought, you know, it might help keep him calm and stop and give him something else to think about besides going into shock. so I just unloaded it you know you took the mag out racked the round out and just handed it back to him I doubt he realized

I did it because you know still dark I mean I had my back turned towards him but to me again it was just that try to keep him calm kind of a thing

so I got up started moving across there was one guy just laying flat in the middle of the building not moving um keep moving

uh there's like a we had a little water tower thing water you can just hear it flowing I didn't know what it was at first. But I could see somebody kind of laying against the wall moving. Somebody else was laying down in the fetal position, but it's going to went straight to the guy that wasn't moving. He ended up being Oz.

He's just kind of sitting there. I think he saw me coming, and he had his tourniquet out. I think he was starting to do it for himself. But I think he saw him. He's like, ah, I got, you know, I'll just let him put it on. Oz is kind of lazy. I mean, you interviewed him. He kind of know.

So he's just kind of, you know, just like bouncing his wrist up and down. I was, hey, TIG, check this out. Like, literally, I mean, it's just kind of limp. You know, it's pretty jacked up. But he's just like, hey, I think it's messed up. I'm like, yeah, put playing with it. They're going to make it even worse, man.

Stop. And he's like, yeah, but look, you know. It was just one of those moments. And I ended up just, last time, get on the radio, said, I got guys down. I need help. And that's when OD gets on the radio says, hey, if nobody's going to go over there and help, I'm going to get off this damn roof and do it myself. That's when I hear Hush get on the radio again.

and says, no, just stay where you're at, we're on our way. Not that they're coming up, I guess they're just now leaving the building. So I get the tourniquet on Oz, I get him up, say, hey, can you walk to the ladder by yourself? And he's kind of like, you know, he's seeing Rome kind of right there next to him. He was like, well, I guess I got no choice. And so I kind of guide him a little bit just to make sure he didn't like collapse, I guess, you know, because, you know, they got to be, that brain's got to be wrong pretty bad. So he moves on.

He was able to walk. go over to the third guy, which ended up being roan, flipped him over onto his back, checked for a pulse, never got a pulse, but his throat moved. So, you know, for me, adrenaline could have been pumping. I don't really know. So I kind of sat for a second, another second, didn't feel anything, ripped off his body armor, lifted up his shirt, you know, tried to, you know, do a look, listen, feel. Again, couldn't really see too much, but I was at least trying to see if I could hear or feel a breath.

Couldn't feel anything, and that's at that point. It was like, okay, I got to break out the flashlight, got the flashlight, checked his pupils, no dilation. So right there, I kind of knew he was gone. And then with Oz, he was just going down the ladder. One of the Delta Force guys was just up there. And I was like, Oz is going to go down there. They're going to start screaming because Roan was early medic on the base. So I just got on the radio and said, hey, everybody, Rone's gone.

Went over to the fourth individual. again, rolled him over and initially when I saw him, again, it was still kind of dark. I thought it was Jack. Like the process everything really quick, but I'm like, oh, wait a second. Now, I can't, because I was just talking to Jack. He's over on that building. So, but did the same process to him. Did a pulse check, look, listen, feel, people dilation, there was nothing.

But this time, after I'd finish this, I could hear. I don't remember if it was a team leader or was the country team leader, but they're like, hey, we got to hurry and get off the building. We got to hurry up and get down. So this time, you know, the whole time I've been up there was no fire, you know, no shooting going on, no, nothing. In my mind, though, I'm just like at this point, there's no rush.

Mortars keep coming in. We're all dead. These buildings are not designed to handle freaking mortar strikes. And, you know, it was by the grace of God that that building even stood by getting those 3 81 millimeter mortars they say got hit by. I mean, that's, that's insane, but where it hit was directly, because the, the walls over there, they were like, you know, about a foot and a half concrete walls. And that's where the mortars hit right in a row on those walls. I think that's the only reason why it stood.

Wow. So I went over, you know, again, they're like, hurry up, you need to get off. I saw them. They kind of, they had Dave Ubin, you know, the Delta Force guys. And, again, about the only thing they really did was they built the back. back, kind of human backpack to get Dave Ubin off the roof. So they got him down and I'm just collecting the weapon systems. I'm going over, went over to Rhone, uh, can grab his guns, checking his pockets for

like wallet or anything just in case we had to leave him because it may have happened, right? So then, you know, before I left, I knelt down, set a prayer over him, went over to, uh, uh, Bub at the time. Again, didn't, I didn't know who the hell he was, never worked with him. But again, same thing, checking his pocket, checking for, wallet's case wedding ring and didn't know trying to check as much gear as I could uh said the prayer over him then I got down this time they're just getting a stretcher around for Dave Ubin so I go in I drop all the weapons off I go back Oz he they got him

laying on the ground so I'm stepping over him they're cutting his clothes off I go straight to the back which ended up being our uh our medical room I guess it was the kitchen but it was our medical room and I'm trying to open up the blast door that way they could bring him in through the back versus the front because he was jacked up you know void the the staffers from seeing it I guess from seeing him couldn't get the doors open and got a like a fraction of the way and it was just too I mean those borders jacked it up so I go and I just grab three four more tourniquets and I got my pocket put them in the backpack start walking back around and two other

other the GRS guys actually end up having Dave Ubin and they were walking in front and passing by the two Delta Force guys again at the time I didn't know I don't know I thought they're just GRS guys and they're like hey where are you going so I'm going to go back towards the tower and watch that sector and they're like oh you can't do that too dangerous I'm like what the fuck you mean I can't do that I've been up there all fucking ice and that dude so we're like having a shouting match that's when the country team leader comes out is like what the hell's going on he's like I need to go there and watch the fucking sector because it's on protected, and Delta Force guy's like, oh, it's too dangerous.

You can't go over there. I'm just like, fuck this. This is stupid. And that's when a team leader just, just go right here, just, you know, just stand by right here. I'm just like, again, I got, you know, walls higher than the ceiling in here. And I'm like going, this whole freaking area now is completely fucking unprotected. When did the Delta Force guy show up? Just before the mortars hit.

How did they get there? With the, with the team from Tripoli. so yeah so we're just kind of just like in like this is fucking stupid I mean this is the dumbest security position ever because people would be literally sneaking up to our wall right now in coming in I wouldn't even we wouldn't even know it all of our cameras got shot out in that whole corner

all of our lights got shot out so it's completely unprotected you know boone might be all to see some of it over there but again you still had a bunch of shrub You had a bunch of, again, sheet pins. They could be sneaking up on us and all kinds of shit. It's just like, this is so stupid. But then I think one of the case officers got a hold of another unit that was down there,

and they had about 300 strong gun trucks, all that stuff. They showed up. Again, I think 7.38 in the morning, something like that. And that's when the, again, I'm just standing there like, this is so freaking stupid. And the two Delta Force guys come back, said, hey, we got to get the guys off the roof. And I'm like, okay, we, you know, there's a, we got a toe strap that we use to pull the tires. And as we're walking and telling them, we can, I can go get it. We can lower them down.

I'm like, oh, don't worry about it. We got this. So we just need you to come and pull security for us. So I go and I start going up the ladder, pull security, right? Like, no, what are you doing? Just stay down here and wait. So you want me to pull security for you while you're up on the roof while I'm down here. and I got a wall that's like 10 feet from me.

This is fucking, again, this is like, this is stupid. So they're up on the ladder and I'm just kind of sitting there again like, this is so freaking dumb. And in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, they're going to, you know, probably do the whole backpack thing, you know, bring the guys down because we got time. Now we have, we have like 300 man militia surrounding our compound. They got gun trucks. They're in uniform.

They're very well organized, very well structured. So, you know, again, we had time. They lower them down. And next thing I know, you know, as I'm sitting here, again, I'm looking this way, back this way. Again, it's another like a shed. So all I can really do is look forward. But even in front of me, I got a big-ass generator house. So I really can't see shit.

And next thing I know, I see a body get put up on top of the ledge. And, you know, I'm still probably, I don't know, good three feet. know from the outside the ledge and next I know they just push him off he comes down right next to me smacks I can hear the the shoulder crunch his head hit and then uh you can see where he ran into the because we had like um like really thick kind of rose bushes you kind of slice the stomach open a little bit and that it up being bub and I'm just like holy shit I can't they just did this and then you know I'm still standing there and I think going I know it's fucking coming next

You know, the first one was kind of a shock. The other one was just fucking miserable. And again, you just hear him come down smack. You know, you can hear the shoulder hit and then the head hits. And again, in my mind, at least try to lower them down by their hands, something, let them drop. But just to shove them off like that was fucking disgusting. And then, you know, what they told the Roan's wife and everybody's family was, oh, we got them off respectfully. that's not respect that was that was a fucking disgrace um you know what he

didn't need to do about it it was done so a couple of the guys came around I ended up grabbing um Bob's arms and the other year S guy grabbed his uh his legs carried him around got him up on the bed um and I know the well We'll go back to a little bit more because about the fight that we had sitting there that they, that they're saying that I lied about what they did. They're saying, again, they're trying to tell everybody that they got them off, dignified and all that crap. They're trying to say that the Delta Fort, I hate bashing on guys, kind of like those dudes that kind of started this whole thing again. But they got an award saying they went up on the roof under fire and all this shit. There was no fire.

I was the first one up on the damn roof. They got an award for that? They got the second highest award, both of them, second highest. We're going up on a roof. Yep. And getting Dave Ubin off. That's all they did. And throwing Roanubov off.

You know what? So when they came out and started attacking me saying, we lied about that, that I lied about it. Oh, you know, I was pissed. So I started going through all the irrational reports. Well, there's actually another eyewitness proving that they threw the bodies off the roof in that report. because he saw it through the back door. He talks about it in Congress. So now they're actually trying to up,

they're trying to get upgraded to the Medal of Honor as well. They're trying to upgrade that to the Medal of Honor? Yep. We're showing up late. And again, reading through his congressional report, they waited two to three minutes after the mortars hit to even come out. Dude, I was up on that fucking roof in like 30 seconds. so anyways so yeah if you guys yeah there's there's a whole fight i mean you know about that

big fight and i was pissed i was going off yeah they were trying to slander saying that you know anyways so just get them get them up on and then uh me and jack were supposed to be the drivers for the flatbed well he he kind of he kind of came obviously heard about rome but again he didn't the only thing about Bub either. And I guess he worked with Bubb in the teams. He was on, they were on the same team together, and he saw him, and I just saw him go white. He was just kind of like, holy shit.

So he kind of got in the driver seat and just kind of sat there. And I looked, he like, dude, you want me to drive? He was like, yeah. So we kind of swapped. We covered them up with sheets the best we could. So we ended up going out. Everybody else is like, they're all in these. sedans and shit all these fast freaking vehicles and we got this hodgey flatbed two mile an hour

truck and we're fucking just trying i'm trying to drive this damn thing you know we went the long route we went through the city which ended up being 13 miles but i just remember the militia coming up next to us like on the main highway they're like like the cars were gone we're like back me and jackers back by ourselves with two militia trucks and i'm like i'm going as fast as i could in this damn thing. And I'm just like, fuck, we're going to get hit

going to the M airport. So we finally catch up while they're still sitting at the gate trying to get in. Well, the militia control in the airport didn't like the militia

that was escorting us. A lot of people to understand is that militia that showed up that actually rescued us from that attack in the compound was Gaddafi's military.

So they didn't even know again, our intel service didn't even know they were there. I had no idea. Jeez. So we get it, we finally get in there. We pull up to the, you know, the bird that Bubb had come down and on and

State Department guys start loading all their, uh, uh, equipment that they pulled out of the consulate, start getting loaded up. Actually, I went on the bird and I took my body arm because my side was killing me. He just kind of took it off, came back, because I thought we're all going to get on this bird. and end up well I didn't so my body armor left without me so again one of those other things I'll never do again but so we get everybody on

all that non-essentials and Oz he kind of gets he was being I think you might have the picture of it and I think I found it at one point anyways he's in the back of the truck laying down kind of bandaged up a little bit

I think one of the militiamans took took a picture of it. But anyways, so very expensive jet, very nice jet. It had a stewardess, very nice cabinets. And so when Oz starts walking up

to get up onto the plane, you know, she's standing there and just kind of looking at him and just eyes get wide next to know she takes off. You know, I'm kind of standing with Oz and just kind of like,

I don't know what's going on, you know? And I kind of, I turned and started doing something else when, I guess, because he was going up on the, he was just kind of going up there and what happened. she was, she ran to the back to get a bunch of towels to come up.

Oz, you know, he tells it. He's like, well, I thought she, you know, okay, I'm still got, you know, a bunch of pop marks all over. I'm bleeding kind of all over these little holes. And he's kind of thinking like, okay, he's going to wrap him up, cover him up. Nope, she started covering up all the seats and the floor and stuff with all these towels. So he went drip blood everywhere. So Oz is kind of like, well, if you think I'm bad, just wait until the next guy comes on.

they end up having to like rip the cabinets out of this plane so they can get Dave Ubin in because again he's on the stretcher and stuff so they end up getting him in get him on the plane they bolt the plane up about five minutes later the door comes flying back open dude the pilot jumps out he's running all over the bottom of the plane we're just like what the hell's going on well you know everybody that works in the high threat environment has to qualify with the pistol you know they got to carry a gun right doesn't mean they're technically qualified, well, the maintenance guy pulled the trigger while he was on the plane, fired the gun.

So now they're looking for this bullet, but as the pilots out there are looking for it, they found it. It actually, right where the seatpost is, it hit right there and just stopped. There's that gap like this. The bullet would have went left or right. They would never took off. and they said that when they finally got up the Tripoli that if Dave Uvin had been another 10-15 minutes he'd have been dead

just because of so much blood loss they couldn't stop the bleeding because again stopped a lot with the arm and I think they end up adding another tourniquet to his arm because it wouldn't stop but then he just had again he was just blistered all over the place so getting one of those God things man so we stayed back

We had the two Delta Force guys with us, a country team leader, our team leader, a linguist, Jack, Tonto, OD, and one State Department guy. Yeah, so there's nine of us that stayed back.

So as we're sitting there, plane had taken off, you know, then the militia, they started coming over. They wanted, you know, what were we going to do with the vehicles? We started divvying out the vehicles. And I'm looking at the back of the bed,

and I'm like, Like, I thought there was three guys. You know, we got our two guys. Where's the other guy at? And I started looking, and I'm thinking, holy shit, they left Sean's body in the fucking car. So I see the SUV starting to pull away, and I'm just fucking running for this SUV and the blonde air delta guy.

I think he was, I think that was the Marine. And he's just like, dude, this Sean, that helped me get Sean's body. So we had to start, you know, luckily I stopped him. Otherwise, we did not have Sean's body. with us. So he ended up getting Sean's body, grabbed it. You got it? Yeah.

He ended up getting it out and getting it on to the flatbed. Again, I don't know why. Again, it's just like we're doing an all state department's job, you know, but luckily I was in mind and actually like to think otherwise, who knows what happened. So after the vehicles left, the commander came up from that, from that militia and said, hey, we can go get your, we can go and recover the ambassador's body. They had the numbers and they had the firepower because at the time,

there was Ansarrois that was actually commandeering that hospital because that's where we were sending them to. So the militia commander, he went, took him about 45 minutes or so, came back, we stopped the vehicle, you know, kind of away from us, myself. That same dealt the force guy,

and Tonto walked up, you know, looked the ambassador over, just looked up for sure, just make sure there was no incisions or anything like that. So again, that's how, I know for a fact he wasn't tortured or mutilated and, you know, he wasn't raped. So he still, you know, so, oh, his belt buckle was over.

Well, yeah. I mean, surprised the belt buckle was not backlers. Who knows? I mean, shit happens in combat. But, you know, again, I went over that morning and saw him and he was wearing the exact same suit. You know, he had the same suit pants and, you know, he had the white undershirt. So he never had it. He never got out of his work clothes.

So. And we brought him over, got him on to the. the flatbed, and then that's when, you know, I don't know, about 10 o'clock that morning, a Libyan C-130 landed, pulled off to the side, the team leader and the country team leader, and the linguist went over there and I guess talked them into a flying is out of there because at the time, we had no idea. We had no idea if we're going to have to drive up or wait here, that bird's going to turn around and come back and pick us up.

Nobody really knew. So one thing was, dude, the airport was open. So we're sitting out there. We got belt feds, you know, we still had, you know, our guns were there, just not my body armor. You know, the airport planes are landing. We're just kind of sitting out there, big militia group standing out there. People are just kind of looking out. It was just so real, man.

Just like, holy, like going on. Like, that's life, man. So we take off. We land. And I think it was like taking off. That's when everything started hitting me. Kind of like, okay, we're kind of safe. You know, and then to me it was just replaying them getting thrown off the roof over and over.

And that's what fucked me up. Yeah, I talked to Tonto and I was about it. And they said that that really, really wants you. Yeah. So, yeah, we landed, got them off. And then that's when, you know, when we put them on the, on the, on the, plane, you know, we had their arms, so their arms were kind of suck up. I think Tanto talks about it. We had

to snap them to get them lay down to put them in the body bags and stuff. It's just one of those things you're not really thinking about the time, honestly, the rig and mortars. And so that, you know, that was pretty shitty, but you know, at least we got them home.

There's a lot of guys and they didn't make it back home. So, um, and then we get to, uh, the annex, the CIA compound. We pull in, dude is just the road is just line with luggage I'm just like what the fuck is going on well they pulled everybody from the embassy

and told them all to pack up so all their luggage was outside waiting to get evacuated so we go in we get debriefed we tell them you know our side what happened all this crap and you know to me I didn't I didn't really talk about the standout order because that was just more of an internal thing anyways you know but the more you know about things

you're just like you motherfucker But anyways, so we go back and we kind of go, we get a little bit of lunch, take a little nap. I think that's when Hush kind of came around, God, I said, hey, you guys are kind of evacuated. We're like, why? You know, just fucking stay here. Now they're going to send you guys back home. It makes no fucking sense. You better off standing here just case something happens protecting the compound, you know.

Like, okay, whatever. So we ended up borrowing because, you know, my shit was all tore up, blood everywhere. So I end up borrowing clothes from everybody else And get there We get flown into in the Tripoli I want to tell he's this part We get flown into Tripoli, General Ham was there He greets us off a bird

And we go in, USOs there They have, you know, all kinds of stuff for us, right? But we got the whole entire embassy Which, I don't know, like a hunter or something freaking people And remember, they had all their stuff but we didn't even have our backpacks. We didn't have time to grab it. So we ain't got shit except for the clothes that we're wearing.

And they, you know, they start, you know, because I guess they didn't want to, like, let people know who we were or anything like that. Even the State Department guys that were, they were kind of sitting with us, not even with the State Department. And, you know, they said, okay, come up, you know, grab the stuff that you need, you know,

and just take what you need. dude, by the time the guys were actually in Benghazi, everything was gone. All the embassy staffers fucking took everything. Clothes, socks, underwear, toilet tree, everything was gone. When we walk up, you could tell I like, oh, you guys are ones that were down there, huh? Like, yeah. So they end up giving us each of like, I was like $500 credit cards, you know, but that was the point.

I was like, holy, you guys got all your shit. And they literally, I mean, pants, socks, underwear, shoes. They fucking took it all. It was like, you motherfuckers. That's the State Department for you, though. So we wake up. The State Department security guys, they were pretty much ordered to go talk to the FBI.

We were asked if we wanted to go talk to the FBI. And to us, why? There was no... I mean, it was, it was an attack on a, it is what it is. I mean, it was an attack. How was this an FBI investigation? We're in a, you know, a high threat environment, not really technically a war zone, but it's a war zone.

What's the FBI going to do? So we never talked to the FBI there. They kept us there until after they brought the guys home. The moment the ceremony was over with, they came down and said, you guys can go home, but you've got to buy your own ticket. so we were able to finally leave the following day flew to DC saved there for about three days debrief twice solid medical because my lungs were just cooked from a smoke fire and I think it was about a week after that when I was able to finally go home so it was about a total week before

I actually made it home home so that's the story how were you greeted at HQ Pretty good. They're, I mean, yeah, it was, it was a pretty good greeting at that time. And they were showing us around. I think they had, no, not that time. It was the second time I came back. I mean, I had no negativity really from them until, I think, until Tonto started the rumors about him doing a book, him and odds. That's when the treatment got a little bit different, but I wasn't part of it initially.

I didn't even know they were doing it, but because I went back too much. more times. So, I mean, it was, you know, you do it for long enough. There's a lot of little scrapples you kind of get involved with. It's just, that's the one that everybody knows about. So did these Delta guys, did they see, it was over when they showed up? Yeah. Was it all the way over?

I mean, they were there when the mortars hit, but that was it. They didn't come out. They didn't shoot a gun. They didn't fire. They were never. in the open under fire nothing and they got they got the second highest award yep for army and marines was what is the navy star i think is something like that navy cross navy cross yeah and they're going to be upgraded to the medal of honor that's yep i read it they're trying

to get upgrade to the medal of honor which to me it's just a slap in the it's a disgrace to that award. So I'm doing my best to fight it, but again, it's, you only, I mean, I've even told a couple of the honor recipients, it's like, this is both, it decrees what the purpose of it is. What do they say? They can't really do anything. It's, it's up to some committee and crap, which again, you try to get a hold of, try to email, nothing.

So, and it goes like, like, if those, if those guys get that award, I don't never be able to look at a of honor the same way ever again because i'll be thinking the same thing like you didn't fucking earn that and people came after you for this yeah i mean i had uh the other the other delta force podcast came at me um some other journalist that uh does fox news came at me for it saying that we lied because they're saying the delta force guys are saying that i lied that they got them down respectfully. They were up on the roof under fire. All this horse shit. Again, I was up there. I was going to a third individual, put on two tourniquets, looked one over, putting it on another tourniquet, looked one over, getting him up,

moving him, going to the third individual before anybody got up on the roof. So, I mean, I was up there for a while. if they stop coming after you? I haven't heard anything yet, but, I mean, it could just block me again. I only saw it like at last, it was again, it was on Fox News. I was scrolling through.

I was like saying that we fabricated the book. The book was full. I was like, what the hell is this? And that's what I read. It dealt the force guy saying this and this. And I was like, oh, hell no. so I kind of went in went at them

and you know they're trying to say you know we put this out there nobody reached out well actually they talked about on the show how Boone's team and they laughed it off all that he tried to reach out and again it was just a bunch of horseshit all they do is try to tear guys down

I mean you know you got other operators trying to tear other operators apart which is horseshit in my opinion you know if somebody does it says over exaggerate something I don't really care, you know, but again, if you're going to sit there and tell me that I lie about it, I'm going to have a big problem with it.

So, again, I went through, that's a lot of congressional hearing stuff to read through. Again, found his statement contradicts what he says, even in his own freaking citation that he was given. But he, what he testifies in Congress, contradicts his own citation. And then this other guy, again, he says, why contact is the, uh, the Special Forces Operations Command within 24 hours, and he said, no, his awards are good. No, nobody's going to get back to you that fast, period. Who is that?

I forgot what the guy's name is. He's like the big, usually I guess he does more sports crap, but he's buddies, buddies with the Delta Force guys that do do that podcast. This is the anti-hero podcast. Yeah, but it's the other guy that they use, I think, too, also. So this is some kind of big podcaster as well. I can't remember his guy's name. But so far when I did my whole, like, I did all video on it and stuff, even Roan's mom got a hold of me because she heard about it. She's all hell now because she did her own investigation into shit.

So she knows the truth because I told her she, again, they were telling her that they got Roan off respectfully. So when I went, when we got a fake award from the agency. Um, they came up to me and they're like, hey, hey, you know, you remember when we were under fire up on the roof? No. They tried to, they tried to tell you that we were under fire on the roof. We tried to basically manipulate you into saying that they were under fire on them. Yeah. On the rooftop.

Yeah. And then Rowan's wife wanted to talk to me, but I couldn't talk to her at that time because I was still dealing with them getting fucking tossed off the damn roof. How am I going to tell the wife that? But I guess they had already told her that they got them off respectfully. Who are these guys? Do you have their names? No, I don't, right off the head. Their awards are public. So, it's, it's disgusting.

So, but, you know, we did get a really good coffee coaster award from the agency. Oh, what? Coffee coaster. We got on an award, it's probably about as big as this, maybe, maybe bigger. they gave it to the cook and the maintenance guy and the staffers too. You know, with this podcast coming out about all these guys, I mean, there's a, there is fucking, it's tricky, you know, and one of them that just got hammered, I mean, he came in here and over-embellished lied about his entire fucking service record.

And I think that's disgusting. and it takes away from people like you and every other person that's come in here and sat across me and documented their service what they were a part of historic events like Benghazi and that takes away from the story and I can appreciate that you know at the same time

if you don't have your fucking facts straight people commit suicide over this shit they commit suicide over this shit it's crazy and it is destroying lives yeah it destroys the whole community

it does it does a lot of damage again and at the same time some of the records needed to be set straight no I agree but to go out and but you have to be very tactful fucking careful yeah when you broach these type of topics because if you do it wrong it's yeah you are the fucking problem yeah kind of what they did

to me do you have anything to say to them no i think i've kind of already have and i'm you're like well you can come on the podcast like why would i come on to your podcast when you can have the balls to reach out to me initially and and ask they didn't even reach out to you no None of them did. I'm easy to get a hold of. I'm pretty much a public figure. So for them to have an excuse that we couldn't bullshit. They did this.

They did this. I didn't. So I don't think I saw what they did until like April. And they did it like in November of last year. I had no idea until I saw that guy's report on Fox News. Why do you think the journalist targeted you? Where did this stem from? So I went after Han.

Because he, again, he slandered me on Fox News. So I came after him, and then that's when the other podcast popped in. And so I was actually doing them both at the same time. I'm not very, I won't, yeah, I won't back down. I really don't care. Good for you. So I went at them. Yeah.

And I, you know, obviously their community came at me, and I was fired right back. Fuck you. Who's their community? Well, whoever watches the podcast. Yeah, there's some other Delta people or what. Other Delta Force guys that came at me. And again, I kind of threw their whole model back at them and, you know, I forgot exactly what their motto is.

But then some other guys like, well, you can't be using that. You're not this. Like, I'm not saying I'm not, that's their motto is like, you know, their own models like, you know, don't go after your own brothers. But what are they? That's their whole podcast. So, but yeah, there are some of their people in their community. I mean, not a lot, but, again, whatever, I'll stand.

I don't know where I stand. Good for you, man. Why do you think these guys are chasing this award anyways? Most guys. I don't know. Again, I didn't know they even had the second highest award until this. I had no idea of what they got. Like, whatever.

What is it claim in the award? They were, they rendered. aid under fire and the biggest one again the rendered aid under fire and they escorted on armed civilians to safety both of those that's all a lie they didn't render aid under fire yeah they rendered aid and but they never even escorted any all those were armed I mean we're all agency personnel then state department in a high threat environment every one of us were armed but for me I mean it's the whole rendering aid under fire crap no he didn't it because even if you rendered aid afterwards it definitely wasn't under fire and all three you guys have the same story

because i talked to all three about it well again if you read the book how we did the book none of us ever talked to each other that's that's the the thing about that book we never talked to each other. We never, like, discussed anything, never had a chance to. Because I went back to work. I think maybe Oz and Tonto did, but even then, I don't know how much they would have. So when I said, yeah, I'll finally do it. The authors, what he wanted is to do was just tape record what we saw, what we did, and send it to them. Again, Jack is over here. Tonto's again, I never again, I never talked to Jack, Tonto, or O.D until after I sent my my recordings in for the book.

So what he did, he took all our recordings and just meshed them together. And that's how he came up with the book. This is probably one of the most factual books that I know of you could have done between five people. Why do you think some of the guys never went public? Jack is still working. He's still working? He's still doing it. Not for the agency or anything like that, but plus he has a little, like small mom and pop kind of a business.

So he just kind of wanted to keep that out. But yeah, he still does high security stuff in the States. His seals are just nuts, man. He just like to keep working. So, yeah, that's why he didn't. And then, uh, when he finally came out. Yeah. I think he was just stuck in the closet, lost the key or something.

I don't know. She didn't want to revisit it. Yeah. But I think he went, he was working too. He was still doing stuff as well. And I think that's why. Yeah, I bet him and Yemen. So, but yeah, I mean, initially I was, I was going to be, I wasn't going to come out public either.

Why not? Just didn't really want to deal with. I, I kind of wanted to work still, too. I would say I kind of got talked into it by the author because, you know, because I was kind of like in every major portion of it, but also I was the one. I got told to stand down. So it's kind of like, you know, it's going to be their word. You know, they're going to, they did kind of attack us, but not as hard as we thought. But he was like, if you don't, it's going to be kind of like they're going to have to

use your word to defend themselves versus you coming out and be able to defend it directly. So it was like the day before it was like I had to tell them yes or no. So how long did you take up before you went back to work? It took me about six months to hear. deal up. What was it like going back to work? Pretty normal. I mean, I went back and then had actually did a video test, testified in front of the Senate

committee, which which was weird because they actually, when I was testifying, to tell us they actually had Bob and Hush on the video conference. So it was just kind of, I don't know, it was just weird. They had those two on the conference? call? Mm-hmm. How was that? So they would answer, I could tell, they would hurry up and answer questions that I would probably say different to, and I just sat there. It was like, whatever, especially the stand-down order. Bob answered that one really quick. And then, uh, what did he say? Um, he pretty much said, well, I don't remember if there was this. And, you know,

it was probably because of, like, I was waiting for support. Yeah, that's what it was. It's because, oh, there wasn't, you know, that's not probably, that's not really what I said. or if I did, I didn't mean it that way. And then when I went and testified in front of Congress, hush answered it really quick. Because when I went and testified, I was with hush. And again, I'm just kind of like, and they don't, yeah, and I'm not the type of person.

Like, if you don't ask me, I'm not going to answer it for you. Kind of a thing. I mean, is it a big deal? I mean, it's a big deal because two people got died from it. Because you had somebody who was in the league, but actually both of them, if Hush didn't know, I don't know if he knew or not. that that 70 Feb wasn't coming at that time.

But, I mean, his decision to make us wait when he knew nobody was coming got two people killed directly. So again, at the time, I think that's why they were doing what they were doing because, again, he was retiring. He was a 30-year agency guy, and everybody was trying to cover their own asses for the mistakes that were made. And again, instead of holding people accountable, they got promoted. I mean, they all, the team leader, Hush, and Bob, the country team leader,

they all got the Intel Star. And if people don't know, that's the equivalent to the model of honor. They didn't give us shit. And we don't do it. for that but again it just goes back to like a slap in the face yeah it definitely goes to show you what this is actually all about it's me it's just that's all it was it's just them bureaucracy yep them covering her up each other's asses that's why you watch you know don banjino and it's what is the post like the shit that I've seen I'll never forget

like this country is fucked that's kind of what I got from that just because of the corruption I'm sorry man how are you doing today no I'm good yeah you know got you know

got divorced and got remarried you know did a 180 um and she's a very religious Christian lady but she's been really good she's been helping me quite a bit dealing with a lot of different things

because you know what I was going through pretty much like in 2020 kind of started my own divorce path and they just kind of really taking more of a big shitter and then you know 2023 found her when I was running for mayor the first time and just kind of turned everything around

how did you meet her? She was did an interesting interview with me then she didn't interview with you yeah so she's got her version of how it happened i got my real version of how it happened so so again i did i jumped in the merry race in 23 like last minute i mean i didn't really know what i was i just wanted to throw a wrench in the system and just try to get things actually done and i don't like i don't bullshit i'm just gonna be direct i don't like if i don't really know something i'm gonna tell you i'm not gonna like a lot of

these, when I was up there, when I started doing the interviews or the panels, whatever, their answers started changing to what my answers were. I was like, you motherfuckers. They're all, like, all these politicians, they just, they're all fluff. They, they change their answers for the audience. I don't change for anybody. I don't really care. But anyway, so I was doing my, coming out of the closet launch, and she found out about it.

Normally she wouldn't show up to the local races and stuff like that, but, you know, she got hit up by the three people and so she finally came and then my manager and uh my my manager yeah i guess my manager kind of hit her up to do an interview with me and then we kind of did an interview and then she started stalking me she won't say it that's the truth so she started coming in doing some training so i was doing the training also at DCF guns and so and she was actually going over to another um uh magnum that was there she was there and then she was there and then she canceled that membership, joined DCF, and then, you know, we kind of started talking a little bit more, and she'd used excuses like, hey, the security team at Caras Bible College wants to meet you.

I mean, they did, but it was her just stalking me, that's what it was. And then we just kind of kept on from there, and then eventually we had lunch and just kind of kept going, and yeah, and then once I got married, she stopped training. So that's how I know she was stalking me. Right on, man. Well, no, that's kind of how we met. I mean, it was, yeah, she's been a big blessing. Good for you, man.

It's probably actually, you know, all the, I don't have to go on in the music stuff yet, but kind of started pushing that stuff out. Yeah. Let's take a break real quick. I know firsthand how tough hiring can be. Finding the right fit takes time. You wait for the right candidates to apply,

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after contracting. But, you know, one of the things, I don't know if you've watched any of these, but, you know, one of the things I like to do is talk about, you know, kind of all the struggles that veterans and contractors have coming home, how to fit back in with society. Most of us, it's not a positive story, you know, and being through something like what you went through in Boghazi.

I mean, how did that affect your home life and reintegration? How was it coming home? I mean, you had seven-month-old twins. I mean, it was nice because I was able to see them. I mean, we were talking about a little bit on the break, but, you know, it was a first time having kids and, dealing with something like that. So, you know, when I remember just being in the back of the car, my biggest thing is like, you start going back home. Normally never, you just deal with it. You know, you don't, I never thought about home. This time is just kind of like, holy crap,

I might never see your kids again. They never knew who I was, you know, never get to see them growing up. So that shit starts playing in your head. Were you thinking about that that night? Yeah. I mean, again, sitting in that car, just waiting to roll. And it's just like, now you got to squash it out. You know, you got to stay focused because, you know, again, having kids of the first time, it was just, it was weird. It was different. But, you know, once we started actually rolling, it kind of went. And then when I was in the tower, like, during the intervals, you know, your mind starts

going back home sometimes and just like you try to get it out. That way you can just focus. You know, your mind's wondering. Somebody comes up on you, man, that's bad. Yeah. So I'm just trying to stay focused on it. But, you know, coming back home. Real quick.

I want to ask one other thing. Yep. What prayers did you say over Bubbs and Rome? So I wrote it down at kind of, when we're doing the book, I did write it, but I didn't say what it was. Because at the time, to me, it just felt like it was just something that was between me, them, and God. But it was, you know, Lord watch over our fallen warriors, for they have made the ultimate sacrifice. um guide them guide them to

guide them to your side and help your angels ensure that no more fall tonight because again we had now we just lost four um and then um and i don't know like perbatim right off the top of my head but and it was a watch over their families for

what they're gonna what they're what what they're gonna experience um and you know just what they're gonna face just the turmoil all they're going to go through. And my thing was just trying to guide them, you know, back with as much light as possible so they can heal fast and go forward. Because, again, Rohn, he just found it also that he was just having a kid. So that's kind of some of the stuff that I was going through my head was just the stuff

that their family is going to have to deal with back home. You know, because, you know, to me, I think somebody dying is not, and to me it's not really a sad thing. Because they're actually going home. We're all the way from home. I'm ready to go home. You know, but when the time is the time, but for me, it's just the turmoil that we kind of deal with when we do lose people. So for them, it's not sad, you know, because, again, they're gone, they're home.

But for us, again, we're just kind of dealing with how do we move on from saying this is what I was kind of thinking about us just being protected. did because I didn't know what was going to happen. And just for the family, me having kids, knowing he was just getting ready to have a kid and stuff like that. Again, said the same thing over above, but I didn't know him, but still the same mindset. Yeah, man. Thank you for sure on that. Yeah. So, again, just listen to people.

Again, the wife kind of drives certain things out that I usually wouldn't talk about. but again it goes back to like just stuff like that may help somebody if it only helps one person that's enough yeah so do you think about them a lot yeah would say so but again it's it's you know when i do my speaking events and you know saying their names for me it just it keeps them going forward it keeps them alive you know they always say you know you're only for truly forgotten when your name's spoken for the final time Were you close with Tyrone? No.

Yeah, just, he was, he was that normal, I would say, for everybody calls a master chief, but to me he's like a gunny. He just had that gunny attitude, you know, always had a coffee, so I can only relate to as a Marine Corps side. So, but no, he was always cool laid back. You know, we talked a lot about cows. I had cattle at the time and stuff. They were actually going to buy some beef from me. But, again, 30 days. you kind of get to know people, but not really.

Again, my background, I'm very kind of still, I'm more open now, but even back then, I was more kind of quiet standoffish, didn't trust anybody. Well, I think we've established why. So, like me, getting to know people, it takes a lot. So what was it, what were your struggles coming back? I never had nightmares. I did have hard time sleeping and getting a pretty good

I think I had actually had the TBI from the one in Pesh that attack again never seek medical attention for that whatsoever but I felt weird after that one but this one I think just being around

the explosion so close to them and just consistent more I just couldn't sleep again didn't have nightmares and nothing like that so for me it was just getting medical issues taking care of because he couldn't go to the VA for it because we were contractors at the time

and technically they don't want you going to VA because it was still classified so they had they picked the doctor that you went and saw uh so just dealing with that I mean I had all kinds of weird stuff like dude my body would just swell up kind of like I had diabetes or something it was just weird like I couldn't wear watches or nothing because my wedding ring couldn't wear because my whole body would just well just swell up like just weird just at random mm-hmm what was it from did they figure it out they didn't figured it out they kind of they gave up pretty much were you boozing no drugs no nothing nope that is almost unheard of yeah it was it was weird man um but then the VA

they gave me some kind of they did give me a like a sleeping pill but it was like a psychotic sleeping pill and did that's when I had actually started dreaming and uh I was drawing about Benghazi, but it never happened the way, like one time I was climbing through fricking rafters with Rhone and even Oz. I'm like, Oz, what the fuck's going on? We didn't climb to it. Oz wasn't even here, you know, kind of thing. And he was there, but he wasn't like in the, over at the consulate and stuff.

And then again, just weird scenarios that were going on, but it was all in Benghazi. And then the last one was, I don't know how my kids showed up. When my kids showed up, I ended up chopping their heads off. What? And that was the last time I took it. woke up and said, fuck this. I never took any sleeping aid ever again. Shit.

So, and I think a lot of veterans, they sit and they say they have this kind of stuff, but they keep taking it. Because you do sleep. I mean, I was sleeping. Yeah. But I was like, fuck this. It ain't worth it. So I've never took anything for sleep since.

And then it was just that. I mean, just weird and medical problems. And actually, I got a thing called relapsing polychondaritis, which they don't even know where it comes from. Only like 10 American, 10 people in our country even have it. So it's an autoimmune that attacks your cartilage. And usually it's already attacked my ears. The next is usually the nose. Then after that, it goes for your esophagus.

That's when you die. So. But I still, I mean, they say within about 10 years. if you're still alive, you'll be good. I got another five years because that was diagnosed in 2020. Jeez. So for me coming back,

it wasn't really difficult. I didn't really have a hard time. Again, for me, honestly, for the whole thing, it was just hearing them getting tossed off that roof. Honestly, I'll have everything.

That's the hardest thing for me. So. No depression. suicide attempts, nothing. No. I'm pretty sure I had some depression. I mean, kind of quit doing what I wanted to do. We got pretty much screwed over on the book and movie deal.

How'd you get screwed over on the book? Well, we don't, we get no residuals from book sales or movie or anything. Is that from them or is that the agency intervening? I do. We don't know. According to them, the book didn't sell enough. The movie didn't make enough. so we don't get shit.

Number one, New York Times bestseller. It's right on the fucking cover. Yep, according to them, nope. It's one of the only movies I've ever watched that has to do with what we used to do. Well, dude, if you look at the reviews, it's got like 15,000 reviews and it's still almost five stars. But now the actors, they're making, they're making a shit ton of money from it. We don't make, yeah, it's just how we got screwed over, I guess, you know, the same. people that helped us do the do the book um kind of did the movie as well and we kind of thought

we had everything covered in there we but again just just you know liberal hollywood fucked us over remember we didn't do it for the money it's good that stories out there it's permanent you can't change it but yeah a lot of people think oh you get you know they well they call it blood money but even if it whatever that we don't get anything from it unless we sell it unless you buy it from us directly we don't get anything that's a shame what you guys were involved with the making in the movie though correct yep how involved uh once once you do the movie or they're gonna do it you have to sign your life rights so you can don't they're only going to do so much and because they have 100% control

so i like to laugh because anyways because i stand my ground on shit i don't care once anyways so you know we went in we talked to michael bay they gave us like the movie script the day before i don't know how to read a movie script i don't you know i'm reading this stuff and i'm like i don't what the hell they're even talking about you know because they're talking to because again they're leading up to it and i'm like yeah whatever i'm not going to be able to read this the whole night before we're going to see him tomorrow we're going to walk through it talk through it so we did we walk through things they showed me you know what the set was going to look like i'm like yeah this set's not right. So the movie set for the annex, that's, dude, it's pretty accurate. I mean, that's

probably 99% accurate. I was like, well, there's trees here. It's like we're not doing that, dude. So, but for the most part, the, the, the, our, the annex is pretty good. The consulate is pretty far off. But again, they, you know, you got to do with the layout of the land and stuff like that. So when we're there, we got to go on set for 10 days. And, uh, I was sitting there. They were doing the attack scene. So it was kind of cool to watch. But again,

I don't really know, because they're doing like the same thing like for an hour straight. I don't know how people do it. But anyways, and Michael Bay, as they're filming, whatever,

they're doing the whole action. He comes walking up. And he says, hey, so you got shot? And again, like, yeah, I got shot.

Where did you get shot? I got shot in the side. He goes, okay, you're going to get shot in the chest. Like, okay, whatever. You know, so it's just things like that that you just really can't control.

So they did it all. Then I think I went home, and then Jack calls me. And he's saying, hey, I just found out that they're not going to put you up on the roof. I'm like, what do you mean? So it's just going to be me up on the roof. And I'm like, no, that ain't going to happen. And it's like, and they're not sure.

showing that the Delta Force guys threw them off the roof. And I said, well, if they're not going to put me on the roof and show the truth, I don't want nothing to do with it. You can tell them all the fuck off. So next thing you know, I think, I forgot who, like the producer guy calls. He says, hey, you know, we just, this is why. I'm like, I really don't care why. If I'm not on the roof and you're not showing what they did, you can fuck off and I hung up on them. Michael Bay calls, said the same thing to him.

And then finally the president paramount, whatever dude's name one. was the time called and I hung up on him. Yeah, I don't really care. I will not be on. If you don't put me on the roof, don't show what they actually did. You can all fuck off. Well, they fixed it. That's what I mean.

It goes back to like, I really don't care. It's like, there's a certain ground where people just need to stand and they didn't do it. Then I just wouldn't promote the movie. I wouldn't want nothing to do with it. Good for you, man. So even more now that we don't really get anything from it. But it was just about, you know, like, you need to show what really happens. And a lot of things in Hollywood, like Michael Bay is like, well, we're doing it this way because we need to have more action.

I'm sorry, I didn't know you were, I didn't know we didn't have enough action for everybody. Like, holy shit. So, yeah, it's just, but I mean, they did a good job with it. It honored the four guys and that was their biggest thing. They left politics out of it. That was another goal with the book and the movie. We didn't want politics in it because politics were not involved. involved when we're in the middle of the fight. Politics came from politicians. We didn't invite

the politics into this. It was everyone else that did it. So again, we get, you know, we're doing the book tour and all this, even the movie. We'd get, we get hit up, you know, bashed by the left a lot. So you know, all you're doing is because it's political. You did that. And like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? It's like, like, we're not going to watch. It's all, it's like, they don't even give the book or the movie a time because they think it's political. there's nothing political in the book or in the movie but that's that's their mindset and you know i remember we got this old lady one time we were in boulder and she came at us saying i can't believe you guys left the ambassador to die you just abandoned him and i'm just like he wasn't our

job we risk our lives to go and save them it's like a lot of people don't even know what happened but yet you get yelled at you know you get like degraded for something you had no control over what the fuck man yeah the book tour was interesting sounds like it so but no i mean again coming back home to me it's the hardest thing was just getting the medical treatment um and and then trying to do speaking events because again i was the quiet guy you met boone right mm-hmm met him several times I was quieter than he was.

Are you serious? Mm-hmm. That dude does not talk. Yeah. Wow. So, yeah. So, again, I would, it took me a while. Like, I mean, when we, like, the first, like, six months, I think Tonto answered every question that was asked to me.

So, I think, you know, I've come out of my shell quite a bit. well you've got to if you're going to run for mayor you're right you better start talking i'll probably still not be a typical politician god i hope not we got way too many of those yeah i mean you know then i you know get involved in a lot of these other veteran organizations and foundations and i think that helped quite a bit you know because then you're more you're not focusing on yourself you kind of helping other guys and it kind of helps you at the same time But then you do got some guys. I mean, I still, I did a couple, like, like, saw a special, or save a warrior, you know, went to their retreatment.

So I did my own things as well as helping other guys. Because, again, you want to sit there as a vet and say, oh, you need to go do this. But if you don't do yourself, you're kind of doing everyone else a disservice. You're being dishonest. Yeah. So, you still, I mean, if you're going to be part of it, you're still going to help fix yourself. Otherwise, you know, you see guys that take their own lives and stuff. like that and because you know was that one uh was i think his name was jaco he was a pretty

of that that was like in the whole 22 kind of thing helping guys out constantly the next thing you know he's gone and just like again if you're gonna see other people help i think it's been for me it helps me knowing that i kind of helped them in a way who's this i mean i know jaco but it's a different one though not the one again he was from tex Um, yeah, for some reason, that's the name that's coming in my head, though. Well, the other one, there's been a lot. Yeah, I know. It's sad, you know, but some of it I don't always think it's combat related.

I think it's home life related. They just don't know how to deal with that portion of it. Yeah. At least that's what I've kind of seen. I think sometimes not to go off on the spouses, but again, I think sometimes the spouses aren't truth of all what happens inside their family life, which again keeps this thing going forward without actually be able to try to truly fix it. That's my opinion. Just because I've been around it so much and I see so much stuff. Yeah, guys suffer. They see things, but I think

it's a lot of it's just that stress of the home life and that's what gets to them. Yeah. Yeah. Did you deal with any type of survivor's guilt or anything like that? No, because my mindset kind of goes down, like, we all knew what we're getting into. We all knew what we wanted to do, and we were, we volunteered to go there. We'd always want everybody to come home when we can, but also, I think it goes back to, like, we didn't have that solid brotherhood either. You're like, I'm not, again, like, I don't want active duty guys to say, oh, you know, kind of fuck you will. Again, we weren't there for a year, four years, five, year, six years together, you know, 30 days. You know, you didn't have time to build that kind of camaraderie.

So it's a little bit different. I mean, it still hits you regardless. Yeah. I mean, you're still a brotherhood. You want to fight for each other. You're Americans. You're fighting for the same thing. But, you know, I just don't want to take that away from other guys that have that.

And it's not what I'm saying. Just we didn't have that ability to build that type. But you also got to remember, you all signed up for that job. That death comes with it. it's just it sucks but having a survivor guilt I mean if if you passed would you want him doing the same thing you're doing for me for it's more about doing doing better or keep going I have the thing that always says always move forward because if if you degress versus progress it does them a disservice it dishonors their

sacrifice in my mind. So I mean, he's just trying to keep on doing it. I mean, you're always going to have failures. I mean, you're always going to, you know, it's not every day, everything's perfect, you know. But it's just trying to do your best, you know, to honor them by doing better. Keep going forward. Make things better for our country. Make their sacrifice mean something. What advice do you have for guys kind of getting out, coming home for today? Have a plan. have, you know, a lot of guys you talk to is, like, they get out. They're like, I don't even know what the hell I'm going to do.

If you don't know, don't get out. That's the worst thing you can do. Have something in mind to go and do. You know, is that's what I hear the most out of a lot of guys, even retired guys. But they don't have to worry about income, but they're just kind of like, I don't even know what to do. It's like, you knew you were getting out at least a year before he got out. And the thing is you have to start planning for something. Yeah.

Don't go to college. Go to trade school. Just if you don't have an actual skill, that's, I mean, I started in HVAC. It was all, you know, hands-on labor stuff, but I'm not a college kid. So I went to a trade school, but you learn the job you want to know. Versus, you know, a lot of college, you've got to take 20, 30 other courses that it costs you an extra 200 grand. He doesn't have nothing to do with what you want to learn. but for guys I just have a plan man don't just get out that's the dumbest thing you can do

if you don't have a plan you better stay in because that's my opinion I think that's good advice so you're running for mayor in Colorado Springs what prompted that I love chaos No, so, you know, it stemmed initially from 2020, but, yeah, from 2020. So it's why I kind of jumped in in 2023. I was very vocal in 2020. I hated the shutdowns. I hated that stupid socialism, lockdown, just infringement crap. It pissed me off.

So I did a lot of things in Colorado trying to tell business, just open up. They can't shut you all. And they can't. They can't. They can't shut you all down. They can't. Otherwise, they destroy the whole entire city anyways. So I did things.

up in Devere, pissed off the, you know, the polis up there. And he, one time he called me a stupid, selfish bastard because I wanted, I was up there, I think I had like 4,000 something people show up, a bunch of dudes on motors. I mean, it was a bike ride from all four corners of Colorado. It was pretty cool. And, uh, because for me, for the government to tell us that we can't do something is bullshit. We tell the government what it can't do.

It doesn't tell us what we can't do. So I started really pushing back on that and, you know, cops arresting parents in parks with their kids. No. Oh, hell no. To me, that's that you as a cop, you should retire. You need to throw away that badge because you're a disgrace. I'm with you on that one, man. I can't, I can't listen to another person that's just saying, I'm just doing my job.

Oh, no, yeah. Then fucking quit. Yep. I'm on 100%. And get a new job. Your job season, well, that's just, if you're just falling on hours, when you can just go enjoy prison the rest of your life, my opinion. Because your violating somebody else's rights.

That's how I am. I'll back the blue, but again, that doesn't, your, yeah, your lack of knowledge does not supersede my freedoms. Yeah. So then, you know, 23 came around. I was starting a new job because I got. tired of, like, traveling so much, and I was taking lunch, and I saw on the news, you know, you have, like, so long to sign up and then so much longer to get the signature you need

to, you know, to run from air. I think I had, like, two days to get my packet in, and then I had, like, two weeks to get my signatures. It was right before Shot Show. I was like, shit, I'll just do it. So I got up, went down to the, again, I had no, no, no, I was idea what I was going. I was just going to do it. Went down there, got the packet, came back, had a friend come over, filled out the paperwork finishes that night, turned it back, turned it in the next morning. Got my stuff to go get my signatures. You know, the 200, you had to get 200 signatures. And then I had to come to Shot Show. So they're doing that. I got like 200 signatures the first weekend when I was gone. Came back, got another 200, turned it in that Monday. And then I

got on the ballot, and then they tried to remove me from the ballot. Why did they try to remove you from the ballot. Because supposedly two people came in to the administration of and said, I didn't live in Colorado Springs. So I asked him, so who are my accusers? Apparently, you can't face your accusers in those incidents. People can just accuse you whatever. So I had to prove that I lived in Colorado Springs for over a year. It wasn't hard. Seems pretty easy. Yeah, but I'm just like, this is stupid. And then they try to fight me on putting John TIG-Tig on the ballot. They're like, well, that's a trademark name. Actually, I can put anything I won on the ballot. So I got a fight. It was everything I did in

the first round was a fight. So anyway, so I got on, you know, I think it panicked a little bit of the other, it's a bipartisan supposedly or not a, yeah, it's unaffiliated run. But I think I still think the Democrats kind of freaked out and they saw me jump on and I think it went up to like a million dollar race. I raised like, I raised like 20 grand. You know, but again, I knew I didn't have a chance. That wasn't the point. The point was to do what I did. And this time, I'm doing it again for the same reason.

Again, my goal is the mayor can only do so much. I think people need to realize that, which, you know, when I was running, the questions they're asking you, even from the media, the mayor doesn't have no control over. You know, so that's the hard part for me, was trying to figure out what can the mayor actually, because I'm not a politician. They never wanted to do it. And now I'm just like, screw it. I'm going to do it now.

I even piss me off. But, you know, they're asking things like a mayor can't control. That's more like a city council or that's the county commissioners. It's just like, what's wrong with you people? So, but I want to give more control back to the people, back to the community and even back to the police. Because if you look and see what happens around this country, especially with police chiefs and certain mayors, they'll tie the hands of cops and they can't do anything with criminals. They can't do anything. Again, like this mayor, he's tying our police.

these chief's hands, regardless he wants admitted or not, because I know people, too, they won't, he won't allow, uh, the local law enforcement to work with federal agents to wrap up these criminals, these illegals. And to me, it's like, no, they're, one police, the number one job is to protect the community. Anyone who's violating our community need to be wrapped up. And again, if they're illegal, they violated it. So my, my goal in a way, I don't know, again, still looking into things, but.

trying to make it to where even though the mayor may still pick the police chief he can't dictate what he does like as long as he's within the constitution the mayor has no control you shouldn't have to control that police chief just like the sheriff you can't control the sheriff yeah well people say well you need to build up make sure your town's taking care of it's like as long as you put in there like he has to abide by the u.s constitution the state constitution that's all he needs to do that's what you should be doing anyways the mayor shouldn't be stopping, shouldn't be hindering, shouldn't be influencing, shouldn't be doing a damn thing with law

enforcement. So again, it's just like the president kind of having control over the FBI and having them do a raid on a former president because he wants to. That's bullshit. You shouldn't have that type of control because that's what happens. You have in, you know,

you had the, uh, during 2020, you had the Seattle police pulled completely out and he had a nation of chaz show up. You know, it's like, no, that they're there to protect the community, the mayor should not be telling that police chief to pull the police chief should be doing their damn job protecting the community. And then, you know, just the infrastructure and all that stuff. And yeah, it's, I mean, I got, I got a little ways to go, but I got two years

to prep and I already, I have like eight issues I'm looking into that people complain about, but so. Well, I'm sure you're going to do well. So I'm excited to see how it goes. No, people say, well, it should be easy. It's a military town, but, yeah, we have five military bases. But again, it's the military don't vote. They're, well, they vote, but not for Colorado Springs. They vote for the state they come from. That's the problem.

Yeah, it's a military town. You make an announcement, get them to register. Right. I know when I ran the first time, I think it was about 100 people came up, said, I'm voting for the first time ever because you're running. Good. That felt pretty good. I'll bet it does.

So. What's your wife think about you getting into politics? So she was actually, she was going to run for her seat. No kidding. And she would have won. I mean, she would have smoked them, anybody that was going to run against her. I mean, she's been involved in the political community across the whole state for about five years now. She helps organize, like, churches and stuff to kind of get more involved in politics because they've been too scared. they don't realize the rules and stuff.

It's a big boating block. Oh, yeah, it's huge. Actually, I'm doing, well, I'll get in that to say. So she's been involved with that, and she got asked to do that. And I was like, I was like, well, cool, because I'm going to run for mayor. I'll win mayor. You'll be up there with good powerhouse. But then she's kind of like, yeah, I'd rather just stay home and I'll just help you.

Because I get, I mean, that would cause a little bit of a separation between us, her doing that, me doing this. So she's like, and plus, you know, She, you know, she does a lot of prayer, praying and stuff, and she's like, it never came to me to actually do it. It was more of my decision, and it's not something that God's leading me to, so I'm stepping back. I'm not going to do it. So now she's just pretty much, like, just going to help me do it. And she's actually going to business school right now, too, so.

Right on, man. Yeah, she's a blessing. I got a good feeling about this. Yeah, I think it's going to be strong. I think you're going to get it. Yeah, now I have a team. I mean, we're getting a solid. team because it isn't it's not just about the one person the one to me the mayor is just a leader

everybody else does the work it's just making sure like that everybody does what the what are what the constituents want where nowadays it kind of seems like politicians just they get in there and then just kind of do what they want yeah sure does seem like that doesn't it on both sides yeah it's a fucking disaster because they want to please everybody you're not there to please please everybody these favors yeah So just get there, do what needs to be done and what should be done. And what the voters want is what they get. Yeah.

So. We'll take, we're wrapping up the interview. But, you know, out there we were talking about your son or your kids, twins. And I just want to see if you have anything you want to say to them. Never give up. Always push forward. Their life's hard. sometimes you get knocked down just always got to get back up well did i wish you the best of luck man and i just want to say thank you for coming well thank you man appreciate it was an honor

truly oh yeah cheers