Shawn Ryan Show - #254 Brian Harpole - Groundbreaking Evidence From Charlie Kirk’s Head of Security

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Brian Harpole served as a police officer in Texas for 14 years, holding a variety of assignments including patrol, tactical operations, criminal and narcotics interdiction, bicycle unit, training, and administration. Over the course of his law enforcement career, he received more than 25 commendations recognizing Valor, Meritorious Service, Meritorious Conduct, Lifesaving, and Officer of the Year honors. In 2008, Brian transitioned to the private sector as the Operations Manager for an elite Texas-based security firm. In this role, he specialized in executive and personal protection for dignitaries, their families, and high-value assets, overseeing complex security operations across diverse environments. Today, Brian continues to work globally as a private security contractor and trainer for non-governmental organizations through his company Integrity Security Solutions. His work has taken him to five continents, where he provides specialized training and operational support in protective services, intelligence, and emergency responses. An honors graduate of Columbia College, Brian also earned a Master Peace Officer License from the State of Texas and is a graduate of both the International Law Enforcement School of Police Supervision and Southern Methodist University’s CAPE Intelligence Program. He has completed more than 4,400 hours of advanced instruction in law enforcement and executive protection practices. Beyond his professional achievements, Brian won over twenty medals in the Police Olympics and has completed more than 325 endurance events across the United States. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://callofduty.com - Buy Black Ops 7 Now https://psyopshow.com https://americanfinancing.net/srs NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-781-8900, for details about credit costs and terms. https://betterhelp.com/srs This episode is sponsored. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. https://bubsnaturals.com – USE CODE SHAWN https://bruntworkwear.com – USE CODE SRS https://calderalab.com/srs Use code SRS for 20% off your first order. https://shawnlikesgold.com https://helixsleep.com/srs https://patriotmobile.com/srs https://prizepicks.onelink.me/lmeo/srs https://ROKA.com – USE CODE SRS https://shopify.com/srs https://tractorsupply.com/hometownheroes https://trueclassic.com/srs https://USCCA.com/srs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. With Amex Platinum, you have access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. So your experience before takeoff is a taste of what's to come. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Brian Hartpool, welcome to the show. Pleasure, Sean. Thank you for letting me be here.

Thank you for coming, man. So, very heavy interview today. And so you were in charge of the security detail and the company when Charlie Kirk was assassinated exactly two months and one day ago. Yes, sir. And, you know, I've been really quiet about this matter because so many people are out there on it. And it just, it's a real shame, but it just got to be so much that I just did not trust my own eyes, ears, what I was reading, what I was watching. And I think a lot of people have sensationalized this. And that is a real fucking shame.

And it makes it impossible to find the truth. It is. And it's not a word. but um you said sensationalized but it's like advantagealized right just to take advantage of it it it's almost like sickening and it has been and really that's kind of what drove me to come here well brian i know you and and and your team um are taking a lot of flack and um you know and i just I commend you for the courage to come out and talk today on the show. And I just want you to know, I mean, you know I'm not a combative interviewer.

I do have some tough questions that will be at the end. The questions that I've seen all throughout the Internet, questions that people have, questions that I have, some of them may seem a little absurd, but I think it is, I think it's important to, you know, just address all the major ones, at least all the ones that are on my radar. And so I just once again want to thank you for coming. Nothing's if it's nothing's out of bounds except for something that may be covered in the NDA that I did for a specific incident for them.

And so if that's true, I would just say that. But literally, that's the big thing is that it's, I'm sitting here, but the team is here. And that's the big deal. And they're representing the other. I want to, and I also just want to say, you know, one, rest in peace to Charlie Kirk and God bless his family. And number two, I've lost friends. And I'm familiar with those type of scenarios. And I just want to say that I'm really sorry for what you and your guys are going through with losing your friend.

Thank you. And also with everything that's coming along with that. So, yes, sir. But everybody starts off with an introduction here. Brian Harpole, a highly decorated law enforcement veteran who served as a police officer in Texas for 14 years. In 2008, you entered the private security world as operations manager for an elite Texas-based security firm, where you specialized in executive and personal protection. Now you are a global private security contractor and trainer running your own.

company, Integrity Security Solutions, across five continents. A graduate of Columbia College, you earned a masterpiece officer license from the state of Texas, along with graduating from the International Law Enforcement School of Police, supervision in Southern Methodist University's Cape Intelligence Program. Most importantly, you are on the stage with Charlie Kirk is the head of his contracted security detail on September 10th, when he was assassinated. It's been two months since this tragedy, and there are a lot of unanswered questions,

and people are starving for some answers. I know a lot of people are going to be very interested in what you have to say today. But I just kind of want to give it to you right now and give you the opportunity on why you've decided to come out. you hit it it's uh there's so much out there and and there's so much out there that's not true and um i i was talking to your staff earlier says i'm i'm older right and i have guys on my team that or our team that are younger and if the truth doesn't get out there it could hurt their

you know 20 more years of work and that's not fair yeah and these are stellar individuals Yeah, these guys are stellar. And, you know, we've worked with just about every agency and police department across the nation and in the larger government, you know, FBI Secret Service. And I've got guys will come up to him and say, where did you get your guys? Where did you get these people? And the only response I've ever been able to make sense is I just tell them, man, I prayed them in. and they came in, you know, and our, our selection process is unique, unparalleled.

We'll get into that. Yeah. I like that cross on your, on your jacket. You know, I thought it would, I thought it would, I thought it would be good to start this episode with a prayer. Absolutely. You okay with that? That's what we all should do. All right.

Yeah. It's going to be super simple here. Jesus, I would just want to thank you for having Brian here today. And we have a couple of goals today with this interview and that we ask that you be here with us in this interview. And we just want to bring some answers to unanswered questions here today. And avenge Brian's team. of his act of uh these accusations and in conspiracies and we basically just want to clear the air

and um and get rid of the confusion and we hope this helps and we also just want to pray for for charlie and his family and we hope that this rise in political violence comes to an end real fast. Amen. Amen. Thank you. My pleasure. I believe in that. Power of prayers unbelievable. Me too. I've received prayers from people from all over the world and text and I would tell them they're heard and felt and they are. They are. Good, man. Well, we got a couple of things to get through. Man, this seems like I don't even want to get this to you but everybody gets one so i got to do it what's that but uh oh no everybody gets a absolutely i uh i uh i um was looking forward to it uh for a couple reasons uh one my fiance uh

loves uh this type of candy and so i'll definitely share it with her right and and uh they're known for that and so um i appreciate it thank you thank you very much you're welcome you're welcome and uh i have a patreon account it's a a subscription account. They've been with me since the very beginning when I started this in the attic of my house, and it's turned into one hell of a community. And so one thing I do is I just offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. And so this is from Amber.

What is your favorite memory with Charlie? It's odd. It was recently, and believe it or not. And it kind of made me feel like I was just hanging out with him instead of working. And we were in Japan. And we had finished, I mean, it was like a backbreaking tour of South Korea, went to the DMZ, and then did a lot of stuff around there. And then we went to Japan, Tokyo.

He did some speeches. And a couple of us had went to a dinner afterwards. And Charlie just loved Japan. And he was like, man, something, we had a bet. And we were playing a game that if we could find somebody in Japan taller than him. Yeah. And so we were all like, you know, we're already like on guard looking scanning, but then you got this secondary thing behind you, like, that, you know,

Are you going to find some guy that's as tall as this guy, which is absolutely hard to do? And then afterwards, we went to dinner, and he was just eating sushi, and we were, he was just eating sushi, and we were laughing and having a good time, and it was a safe environment. So access was controlled, and it was just these goofy things, like you were sitting around a table in high school with a bunch of guys that you were cutting it up with. I just remember he was like, he really loved the sushi, and he was like, Brian, you're going to eat that? And I was like, no, and he just starts eating it off my plate. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, man, this is, it was cool. You know, he had never been to Japan before, and he got to see some of the really cool stuff there.

And then he was just on a high about it. And so he was not Charlie Kirk. He was just a guy. And so it was a very cool experience. That's cool, man. It was. That's cool. Well, Brian, like I said in the interview, I want to really clear the air with a lot of things.

And it's going to be some uncomfortable questions. But, you know, I've thought a lot about how I would do this interview. And I think it is probably most similar to the Blackwater one that I've done. And so one of the things, you know, I'd like to talk a little bit about your background, your company, the training that's involved in your company, and then we'll get into some actions on and stuff. But, you know, I mean, this is just, this is just so wild. I mean, we've heard, we've heard it was a right wing nut, a left wing nut, Israel, a trans person, a trans person's boyfriend. I mean, it, it, in, and at the time, there were.

compelling arguments for every single one of those avenues you know and um i think you know there's a lot of people that don't believe that this uh tyler robinson kid is the shooter but i just you know we'll dissect all of this stuff as we go on and then at the end i want to ask what questions you have um you know from somebody that was being there and somebody that that had their hands the first ones to have their hands in the wound. But, so let's, let's start with, you know, let's start with a little bit of your background in law enforcement and what qualified you to get into this type of. Yeah, I came from a law enforcement family, and my dad was a cop for 47 years, and he was a worker.

He said, he is still a worker, you know, and he was kind of like a role model for that. And so I was kind of hell-bent when I was in my early 20s that that's not what I was going to do. And then just kind of got gleaned into that, recruited into that. And did 14 years at that and kind of my area of specialty was I had the ability to go out and find bad guys. And that was kind of what I did, whether just seeing the physiological movements of people. crowds or even in cars and the way they walk and so you notice that you recognize it and how you can look at the way they act when they see you or they're trying not for you to see them and so you can couple that and use that to make contact conversation with people and

and then you find a lot of bad guys and and so um i kind of specialized in that and then also did emergency medicine. And so I had some really great mentors. Like I said, my dad, a guy named Jerry Venom, Bill Weber and Keith Lane, just phenomenal mentors in law enforcement that just kind of took me under their wing and or slapped me when I needed it. And we all need it sometimes. Have you ever exchanged gunfire?

I've been shot at and then shot guys with a lot of the times with non-lethal shotgun rounds. You have. So you know what it's like to be shot at? Sure, sure. We, you feel it. I mean, I was close enough one time I remember a guy shot at me with a shotgun. And you don't, I remember that kind of sounds weird. you see i remember seeing his hair puff up because the gun was so it's a shotgun was so short

wow and so i remember seeing the uh uh uh wadding come over my head no kidding yeah and so i was like uh that means he missed you know because wadding's after the bullets and you know but um man i got shot out with a shotgun one time yeah in yemen and i thought they were i thought a fucking Kib was holding a sparkler towards me. Turns out as a shotgun. You feel, yeah, this guy was, luckily I was in an armored vehicle. A little over 40-something feet away. And so, you know, you feel it.

You feel the blast, right? Yeah. And so, grace of God, he missed. But that career, you know, I kind of, like I said, had some really good guidance and starting with my dad all the way up to these other mentors. and there was an expectation of work back then where you went out and produced, you know, integratedized work,

and you went out and found bad guys. And then when you did that, you kind of got a skill, developed a skill. We called, you know, you started sharpening your own sword. And then that kind of helped me transition over into this field where it's about prevention and seeing it before it happens, right?

And so that was able to really help me in this field go out and work. And even in austere places, and I've done some work on the private security side that makes law enforcement, the most dangerous stuff I did, law enforcement pale in comparison. I mean, I wore cameras inside of cartel houses in Juarez. Wow. Yeah, and we were looking where kids were being trafficked, and we act like we went in to shop for children, and we were capturing that footage. Shit. We got made inside, and then...

That was as a civilian? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then I did, same deal. Well, can I hear more about that? Sure, sure. You were on a civilian contract to go into cartel homes.

Well, it was an NGO based out of Dallas that specializes in helping people that are trafficked. And we were in El Paso working during the surge of people coming over to document that. And I was providing security for the people that were reporting it. And then I don't know how they came on the Intel, but inside of Mexico and Juarez, there was a hotel that they found out that where the kids get warehoused. And so they were like, this would be great footage. And I was like, this is horrible, you know. And so we ended up going over and posed as shoppers, basically, and the guy gave us a tour, and we went into this. room that was about 50 feet long but only probably 10 feet wide and you can tell like it was just

bed bed bed bed bed and these guys were i guess that's where you go in and shop i don't know but nobody was in there there weren't any children in there at the time and then we went back downstairs and we're in the lobby and kind of talking to the guy behind the desk and you can tell he's like the I guess the front for it and I saw a guy look look through the window from outside and and with his head he he counted us like that and then he picked up the phone and he said that into the phone and I told him hey man we just got made shit and so we ended up going out of more as a secondary exfiel location and we ended up happening to go out in New Mexico instead of Texas.

And so just got some great footage. But then we did other ones where I went to Piers Negra and wore a camera and showed how people would come back across and I won't say be harassed, but be screened. You have to pay a fee to leave Mexico. And then you get checked when you come to the border, the middle of it, and then you get interdicted. Why were you there? What did you do? what did you eat and then so i'm getting interviewed but at the same time uh the camera crew was filming literally hundreds of people just walking across unabated and so you got to see both of

those at the same time wow yeah and then things like that uh really good missions in south africa um doing things uh same deal and um so yeah there's there's good work to be done So you've got a lot of experience. I mean, experiences, I have been, got experience through experiences. And so, and I've had, it's really a gift to luxury, and I'm happy to have it. How long have you had your company? We started integrity three years ago. And we actually worked for another company prior to that with Charlie.

and there was a in 2022 is when we started it and started doing that we worked for him for the other company prior to that and there's some conjecture out there on the for charlie yes for charlie and other accounts how long have you been working for charlie um since i believe it's 18 since 18 18 yeah so seven been seven years seven years almost eight years Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So when you started the company, was it, did you take the, is it the original detail that started in 2018? Pretty much the same guys. Yeah. She's been together for a long time. Yeah, we've added, obviously, and lost a few, you know, not different company. We lost that company lead or that company for reasons that we couldn't stomach that were going on.

But, and that's why we started it, this company, and that's why we named it Integrity. You know, we named things, and it's a we company. Tell me about the vetting process to get into your company. What does it take to become a security contractor for integrity? What kind of people are you looking for? Yeah, it's a weird, for the industry, it's kind of weird. We have a group of guys that are either from the original. We call them the OG guys, and then we have the add-ons that have come in.

So a guy that wants to come to work for us, he has to get sponsored in by one of those people that are already here. And so I'd like to come to work for you, and so somebody vouches for him. And so then he comes to our training facility, and we train, if you're in town, not work in a detail. We train every Wednesday. And so it's, you know, defensive tactics, emergency medicine, techniques, you know, PSB techniques, firearms. And so that's every Wednesday. And so they come out and they train with us for an unscript amount of time. Some guys, it's a month and a half, two months. Some guys, it's six, seven months. You know, there's no timeline. And at the end of that time,

the team gets together, and they give them the thumbs up or thumbs down. And then if they get the thumbs up, then they start the vetting process of, you know, what did you do? Are you a good dad? Are you a good person? Are you a good previous employee? You start just a normal vetting process after that. So you go through all of the skills? It's not skills.

We have guys that come to us that the skills are not what they need to be. But we as a team can collectively teach that. But what we can't teach is if you're not a jackass. Yeah. Can you work well with a team? Can you think of people besides yourself? And sometimes that can't be taught. Sometimes it can.

And so that's important. those physical skills the hard skills and the soft skills can be taught and we have quite a collection of guys that do that man you know we have some statements from your guys here and and i don't i don't know if you want me to read any names but i will they said they're fine with the song as just first names yeah i mean here's just you know blake combat proven Marine. Peers more talent than everyone else. I mean, you have SEALs, world-renowned juditsu people, 22 years on SWAT, professional

athletes with tactical careers, I mean, 22 years is a Navy SEAL, Marine and 30-year cop and SWAT commander. I mean, these guys know what the fuck they're doing, and they're no stranger to dangerous work no and they come in with that but we have a saying that says um because they come in with that kind of pedigree and they're vouched in based on that a lot of the time but um we have a saying that um your past achievements or filiation are not equal to your current capability so that's why they still have to come show that they can

do that stuff still and still have the hard set, but still have the soft set. Make sure your skills match your ego. Right, right, and your resume. Yeah. And so that also builds cohesiveness, and I've never, in my years a cop, years as a cop, or until we started this group, even at the prior company, we didn't have it. It was a weird relationship between the team and the guy who owned it.

But this one, we got grown-ass men when we finished training telling each other they love them and then we leave. Nice. Yeah. What does the ongoing training look like in integrity? It's a mandatory. I mean, the guys are required to do by our written policy 40 hours a year. And 20 of it has to be internally, and 20 of it has to be, it can be externally. Most of the guys, I did the averages, and I sent in our training logs, and we keep them electronically

so that they're not, they can see that their time date stamped with what we did, and why we did it. And most guys get around 200, some of the guys are getting 400 hours of training a year. Wow. Yeah, and it's advanced level. It's not sitting around like in cop days where you're watching video. of, you know, how to get along better with people that don't think like you. You know, it's real things that are applicable to what we're out there doing right now today

and how we can raise the next level. And then it's ongoing. There's an expectation for it. And we've lost guys because they didn't keep the hours and tell them, and they were good humans. I mean, good people that just timelines couldn't line up or, you know, things going on at home. And so they had to get, you know, laid off or furloughed and told, hey, when you come back and start all over, but the process started all over. I would like to I would like to I mean we had a little conversation before we jumped in on the interview and the way and when you told me you know the process that you had developed you know to do to to be vouched for to work for integrity the actual training pipeline the the you know all the guys on the detail have to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down I mean I think that's a phenomenal way to hire for a security firm On top of that, I mean, the ongoing training, I mean, you had brought up medical when we were chatting upstairs.

You brought up obviously firearms training. I mean, you even brought up etiquette classes that you would bring people on to the range and ask them what fork they're going to use. Yes. So that, I mean, so you are very, very detail oriented. You have to be. You're in kind of a zero fail. And, you know, we see that now. of work here is I tell guys that come in from the law enforcement side.

It's like, man, back when we were cops, if somebody got something happened to them and they're in your beach or 10 cars got stolen or, you know, 50 mailboxes got bashed, you went out and you were just like, sorry and took the report and you went back to work and you got paid the same. And, you know, in this industry, something happens by no fault of your own even and like that, you're done. you know, with that client, and there are people in the woodwork that'll come right back in and do it for cheaper probably. And so it has to be that mentality that we have to be that

much better every single time you step on a job. You have to, it's, you know, people say that 110% rule. And I'm like, it is. It's 110%, but it's 110% of something that has to be the benefit, the big picture, not yourself, everything, the whole job, the, the detail. And you get guys together and you put them through that mess to get on the team and you've developed something that can't be replicated. I mean, we vacation together and we Christmas party together. It's a brotherhood. It is. It is. And once you, there's another step to it is it's so close that once you've made it through those steps and you're on the team And then you still have to put that kind of effort out.

And then once you put that effort out and shown even on jobs that you truly can think about everybody, the client, the team, the big picture, what we're believing in, then the team gets together. And then they authorize them to get the tattoo. and then they get to get a tattoo and, you know, brothers in Christ for eternity. Wow. And so... You guys are tight.

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When you're screening your employees or the guys, I have to ask this question. I have to ask it. Of course. Do any of your guys have any ties to any foreign intelligence agencies, more specifically, Mossad? No. And I've seen that and heard that. And, you know, I've been in 39 countries in this world, and I've never been to Israel. I'm a firm Christian.

I ask our guys, are you believers? We have no ties to Israel or Mossad or any other one. We're Americans, period. We believe in what we're afforded to do here. We believe in our system. And to say that we're massad or attached to any type of foreign entity, it's one of those, it's crap on its best day. Do you have anybody on your team that you think could be tied to an extreme political party who is planning assassinations? No. One, we're in each other's business.

where they have the time for it, I wouldn't know. Yeah, you had mentioned some of these guys are on the road 250 days a year with Charlie. Yeah, just working. And it's not just that. It's, I mean, we do a team trip every year down to an undisclosed location. And some of the guys are there now. Some of the guys left yesterday after that job ended. I'll be going down the night before, I mean, tomorrow.

So we know what each other does. We know their kids' names and spouses. And it's like, if they're doing it and they're not, they wouldn't have time for us not to notice. And then the heart of these men that are going to pour this out, it's like, we all, you took an oath. I've taken an oath. Most of my guys had taken an oath.

And it's different in the security industry. You're not taking an oath for your client, but you are taking an oath to each other. And so they wouldn't do that to the client, but they really wouldn't do it to me or to their coworker. And so that's one of those things. It's like, no, if you know us, those allegations become even more idiotic.

Yeah. And you say this with 100% certainty? To my death. Roger that. To my death. Let's move into the threat assessment and the pre-planning for the event. Absolutely. How many days prior were you guys there? We generally, the permitting process and all that goes on behind the scenes.

And then there's a questionnaires that are filled out that we used to. there was a lot of busy work. And so, you know, kind of like in the military, what you did, we create forms that, hey, let's get this information up front. And so that we have a duplication process so that we can confirm it. And so we started our first before that one, the 24th of the month prior. And so, and that was with the hard conversations, meetings. You started that on the 24th? Right.

It's two weeks. It started before that with the intelligence gathering and all that. But the hard conversations, the sharing of information, the conference calls, the data sheets, and we put that in a timeline on an app so that this all goes up, and every guy that's on that job can see all the intel that comes in. It's a decentralized command model for the company. And so anybody can make command decisions for the betterment of the client or the team. And so everything goes on that app. And so when I get it, they get it.

And whoever's gathering that intel, it gets it. There's no hold. There's no power hold on it. And so that first information came in on the 24th, and then the information share starts where we're walking through, you know, everything that you need. for a detail. The site plan, point of contacts, emergency fallback locations, hard rooms, arrival points, hospital, you name it, fire department, jurisdictional authorities, all that comes in on an intel sheet and gathered. And then it's in that quick reference app so any guy can get it

at any time they want to. And then we can share it out any time. We can add people into it, take people out of it. And so we found also that we utilize that format, and it shows that we do, it can timestamp our due diligence also. And so that's why we use that as opposed to just, you know, sharing it back and forth or doing it on a whip it pad. So we have that in real time. And so that starts then. What kind of, I mean, the beginning when i was kind of looking into this before before i realized i'm never going to find any answers we've seen a lot of of charlie's friends um people that are in the media you know come out and say charlie had very specific concerns about israel and that his his opinions were

changing about israel and that he had expressed concerns about about this to various media personalities, you know, my question is, is the man that owns the company that's in charge of his security detail, and you are the head guy on his security detail. Were there any concerns about that or any other organization, political party, foreign nation, did he express any of those concerns to you? No. And Dan works for Turning Point as their security guy. And so Dan feeds down that to us to our contracted security, which is us for integrity. And so nothing had ever come out from Dan, from Charlie down to us about that.

Now, at the same time, you've got to look at the world we live in. And that's a reality. It's a reality that an organization, whether it be a organization, whether it be a a hate group of any type could want to hurt anybody, not necessarily Israel, but we look at mathematics too, and there's probabilities and possibilities, right? And I look at the probabilities. The possibilities are infinite. And the probabilities are that it's not. The probabilities are the people that want to hurt him or the people that are there screaming things at him in front of us half the time. And so we have to look at those probabilities and the mathematics.

We look at the possibilities, too. And those possibilities, I'm sure, are out there, but we've never got any detail or intel to show that yet we should look into this deeper. I mean, it's just, it is very interesting that if he was that concerned about born nations or opposite political affiliations, I mean, if he was that concerned, I don't know why that wouldn't have been disseminated down to the security detail. I mean, I have a security detail, and if I feel that there is a threat, even if it's just a feeling, that's the first people that I tell is like security detail. We looked at, you know, we look at all that, and you can go back and look at his speeches.

And Charlie was an absolute supporter of Israel. And then he would say, and they would ask him why. And so, you know, we're in those things and we're listening, but at the same time you're looking. You hear these things, and you hear them over, and I can remember him saying, you know, he was a supporter of it because, one, a nation should be able to defend itself after they've been attacked. Two, Charlie was a devout Christian to the point that he gave us life for it. And he referenced this, and I heard him reference it, where those places that are our holy land are being taken away from us and not been able to visit and that you can't go there. and so that protection of Israel was important to him and those holy sites and he'd been there

and so he had talked about being there and how it changed his life and so that's why those sites in that area was important for him to protect now how you can derive Israeli hit men out of that I have no idea

but we have never received anything from the FBI which they were pretty good about sharing information, Secret Service, because of the Charlie Circle. And we had never received anything from anybody that was credible that was saying that groups of that entity was a threat to him.

We received other threats all the time. We'll come in all the time. You know, they come in all the time. And so you've got to look at them, Are they First Amendment or are they actual threats? And so, you know, First Amendment threats would come in, and these people have disgusting. They, like, Charlie, I can't wait to you come to, you know,

it was some current on the West Coast. I can't remember what town it was. But I can't wait to you come to this town so that I hope somebody shoot you in the head and we can pee in the hole. What? Yeah, yeah. It's like, where do you get this kind of stuff?

And so where do you, and where do you, And where are you benefiting from it, right? And so am I going to, am I going to spend an exorbitant amount of time with a possibility that I don't have any tangible intel on and haven't received any, or am I going to put my eggs into this basket that is a probability right here? You know, and so it's probable. These people are doing it with bomb threats routinely, physical, you know, threats to, person and and so you got to look at all these things and work those angles and you know

Dan did that meticulously and he shared that information with us and so um uh if that came in we got it and we never got anything that no massad or nothing that was never not once did anybody i mean you know i've interviewed a lot of warfighters i'm a warfighter a lot of sometimes somebody on the team will have some type of a feeling or a premonition or, you know, hey, we shouldn't be here right now or something's about to happen. I don't have a good feeling about this. Did anybody you're on your team or Charlie, anybody, express any concerns about that day? On that day, for us personally, when you walk in and, you know, we talk about workup, right? So we start the back work up.

And then we're a little different also as far as our guys don't just get to show up. The team goes out and we physically build all of our prevention model. So they don't show up and just see it. They physically build it. And we walk through at each other and we make sure things are done right. And so our guys are pulling back racks and putting them together and they're putting tape up and they're looking at places all around the bubble that our responsibility is.

And so, you know, they're looking around thinking, God, this is horrible. You know, we're, it's a beautiful amphitheater there at UVU, but, you know, you're a tactician. If you're somewhere and you're covered from an elevated position from 180 degrees, it's horrible. And that's where we were.

But that's come out. So why would they have it there? This is ignorance, you know, it's just security fail. And I'm like, well, one, that's where they told us we had to have it. We weren't optioned out anywhere else. There's a permit you have to get. And the school says, nope, this is where you have to have it. We don't get to argue with them.

You know, we don't get to say, no, but that's it. This is where you put. This is where you have to do it. And then secondarily, Charlie liked it. There weren't, it wasn't ticketing. You didn't have gates. People, regular people, showed up. And we had spoke to him about it before.

And it's like, man, this is getting dangerous, you know. And his response was, I know. And so it's like, but if you ticket it and you make people jump through hoops to come in or pay or go through magnetrometers and then the people with opposing views don't show up and then there's no conversation. And when there's no conversation, there's more division. And his goal was to have less division through conversation. And so the easiest way to get that was to open it up.

And so, and that's not the first, I mean, UVU was an open air, but we did San Francisco where we had a street takeover and people trying to climb over fences and, you know, our primary and secondary exfiel got compromised. And so it was bad. Wow. And so we've had New Mexico where we had no law enforcement assistance, and not last year or year before, and we end up physically just fighting our way out of there.

And so it's like, we get it, the risk. But his response and his, you know, his mentality was that this is worth it. We're making gains here. In your coordination with UVU, I mean, did they offer any assistance, anything at all? Yeah. Did you ask them of anything? Absolutely. So we come in and we start looking at things immediately.

Like, man, where are our risks? You know, it's a risk assessment when we come in. That's why we get there. What's why we start doing the advance so early? We walk it, you know, we build it ourselves. And so initially, we have. I spent thousands of dollars on drones last year and got the guy's license. But if the area lies in the Provo, Utah airspace, I can't fly it.

That's a 107B. We can't break the rules. And then you had secondary restrictions probably due to heavy foot traffic for the school, but I can't go in and break the rules. There's laws for a reason. And so now the school could have flown drones. the PD, but they didn't have them, right? And then so, but Orum PD has a drone unit active and professional. And that police department, I will tell you right now, is awesome. They are, they get it.

They, they were there, they helped both on the soft side and the hard side. And so I started asking questions, like, you guys have a drone unit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. Do you have an MOU or a mutual aid agreement with the school? And they're like, yeah. I said, did they call you and ask for assistance? No. I'm like, why wouldn't you call? And then so, you know, that's one. So just, I can't go in and break the law. I can't make my guys break the law. I can't go in and do something that would jeopardize their career. Do you have any idea why they would say no? I mean, did they, did they, was this malicious? Was this, was this being malicious towards Charlie? I don't know knows the right one. I would say, Did you ask?

Did you ask this awesome PD that would probably help you in a heartbeat? Did you have an MOU with? Did you even ask them? And the answer was from them, we didn't get asked. We didn't get asked. And then so table the drones, which would have been awesome. Absolutely. I believe in them.

But I can't break the law to do it. We're out there not only protecting them physically, But I have to protect the reputation of the client also, and that's a whole separate thing of protection. So the drones would have been awesome, but I can't break the law. They could have used them. They chose not to. And you got Overwatch, you know. Yeah, snipers on roofs.

I got guys that are qualified. That's their career. But this is not a State Department job. I don't have an I-I-TAR, and this is an Iraq. This is Utah. I can't go in and set up observation points with snipers. That's against the law. I can't break federal and state law to do what we need to accomplish.

So that's their job. Our job is the close protection bubble, and there's a saying on this, and there's areas of responsibility, and we cut up the areas of responsibility in this pre-examination. meet or you know when we start doing the advance are we've got this you've got this and so um you know they have that that overwatch it's like capability and they have an MOU for SWAT for that

through ORUM not utilized don't know why that's a question for them to ask why didn't you call why didn't you ask for assistance especially when this crowd grew and grew and grew I mean, good police tactics. If you're out and you have six guys that show up and all of a sudden this thing goes from 1,500 to 2,000 to 3,000 people, you go, hey, we need some help. From all your pride or whatever it is, we need some help. I took 12 guys there.

I had double the amount of people there that the PD had, and we're only responsible for the first 30 meters and movement in and advance in and receiving and out. and we had 12 guys they gave me six for the rest of the campus jeez yeah and so

that's not the question for me to say why didn't they that's the question for them and so there was that one the site man it's not it wasn't up to us two drones I can't break the law to do something

I want to do otherwise I'd have showed up with an APC Well, with the drones, I mean, you were in coordination with local police department, correct? No, the UVU has jurisdictional authority. It's their campus. Orum is the outside city. They weren't there because they hadn't asked. They hadn't been asked to come.

And we can't ask them to come. I can't call Orham PD and say, hey, man, send me 10 guys. I can't do that. I don't have the authority to do that or the budget. And then, but the city, I mean, the school PD has an MOU or mutual aid agreement with them. Why not just call them, say, can you guys send us 10 guys over here for Overwatch, all that? And I say that only because we had previously talked about areas of responsibility. And then the areas of responsibility and I had a, and our guys all have not only an area,

of responsibility, but there's a job and a job. So you have your area, and you have a job for that area, but then you also know the guy's area and job next to you in case he goes down or something you have to backfill him. And then we have the bubble around the protectee. And mathematically, 2,000 people are in front of you. Where's mathematically the threat coming from? The front.

Right. And so we're looking for walk-ups, you know, People walk up, sitting down a package walking away, displaying a firearm, everything from throwing balloons full of piss to maratic acid. We've had all kind of stuff thrown on us over the years. And so there's a reason why those things are set up that way, and there's a reason why those guys that day were set up around there. Every guy has a job. Every guy has a detail. Every guy knows the guy's job next to him. And so we have a job. that set. And then we other people have areas of responsibility. Well, the Monday before the

event, we were still working through the arrival. And so we have concerns with rooftops. I mean, we've got a location that we're not keen with. We know what our responsibility is. We know what our statutory authority is. We know that we can't go up and set up our guys in sniper observer positions. It's not going to be allowed. And so we have some correspondence with the chief of the school on that day, on Monday before Charlie was killed. And why this hadn't come out and why he won't stand up like a man and admit this, I don't know. but he's watching a bunch of men lose their careers and he's okay with it on monday before

this correspondence went to chief long hello chief long we received this message today from the student group there is a student roof access pretty close to where ck will be set up at the utah valley the sorensen center has a couple of staircases that go up to walkways on the roofs He comes back, and for edification, the Sorensen Center was the building in front of the Lucie Center. And so he comes back and says, you want access to the roof. And came back and said, I was told students have access above us. If this is true, it would be nice to either have it controlled access or allow one of my guys to be there as well if possible. He comes back, and his last correspondence was,

I got you covered. What else am I to do? When a command level person from an accredited police department says, I've got this area. Jeez. Have you been in con? Who is that? That was the chief of police for the UVU police.

department we've called him he's never called us back holy shit does he have a name chief long chief long and i didn't know if it said deputy in that or not because in the in the correspondent or in his stuff on the website it says deputy chief long but we just called him chief long so so it's like yeah i i got guys that are ten times more qualified qualified than what he could have produced for us probably. So literally all they had to do is post anybody at that stairwell. Stairwell wrote. Put a drone up or let us.

Let you do your job. Or let us. You know, we, we, we, our team is built. Would it be okay if we put that, sure, and shot of that text up for everybody to see? Absolutely. know it's real? Yeah, absolutely. And do a FOIA for his phone.

Well, that's a good idea. Do it for you. Do a FOIA for his phone and have those records put out so everybody can see them. Do a FOIA for the communications for days leading up to it. Do it. And the truth's like a lie. You set it free and it'll buy for itself. One of my favorite sayings.

Last question before we take a break. I just want to ask, were you understaffed? or, I mean, was anybody sick? Did you have what you needed? Yeah, we usually had been... It was the same as every other event. No, no, we upped it. You upped it?

Yeah, we upped it. We usually would run eight to nine depending on how many movements and how much movement inside. And so, based on no articulable threat, but just the current world situation prior to that day, we up the manpower. to 12 and then we had actually a 13 there that came in the in the dry party and so but yeah we upped it based

on nothing because it's like that we're in a kind of a place where we don't want to be we're expecting a big crowd it's the first one we don't want to get behind the eight ball we in security industry it's a prevention industry not a receipts It is a response industry, but it should be a prevention industry, so we're there in the prevention model. And so you can see if you pull the schematic up the placement I put for our guys, and on that day, thank goodness we had on because where the tent was that Charlie was under, there's a giant walkway above him. And when we were doing the walk in that morning, one of the things that didn't come out in our advance was there was giant rocks. that they use for architectural design all around there. And so we're seeing these rocks on the ground,

and it's like, oh, people can come by and pick up these rocks and then throw them down on us and throw them down on Charlie. And so we did a temporary criminal trespass zone right above him on that bridge walkway so that people couldn't come in it and throw rocks down on them. But the problem is that we had to get PD units in here, to take that area of responsibility. And we told them, hey, just like out there,

we need you here to have oversight coverage because, one, it's a tape line. It's not a hard, you know, wall or anything. And so you need statutory authority under Utah law to say, hey, you can't come in or you can be arrested. And so the PD came and did that. And then we had one, Scott, that did a hellacious job on making sure they stayed there and did their job.

and so thank goodness we brought extra people and so we upped our manpower for that one due diligence was done um you know we had it's weird in the security industry i get calls all the time and they're like hey we want to run a security detail and we want you know 10 guys they're former seals and operators and SWAT guys, and we want up-armoreds and this and this. And then I'm like, all right, you know, here's what it's going to cost and they'll call back. All right, we want one guy and a Toyota Sienna, you know, and so it's budget's a factor. Yeah. And we eat a lot of money every year based on, you know, hey, last minute, not approval of people, but let's bring them in just to sail our asses. And that's a regular thing. And so, yeah, we, we, we, we, we,

We had people for our assignment, and our assignment and our people's assignment was carry out meticulously. I mean, he had Dan next to Charlie, and Dan's only job is Exville. And you can see when Charlie got shot within two seconds, Dan had his hands on him to push him down to the ground. And then within, when you break it down forensically, like within five seconds, I was on top of Charlie. and then you saw our team actually doing exactly falling back on top of him and collapsing back on top of him. Not one radio comms came out. It's unneeded.

They all know their jobs. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll get into actions on. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Now that the weather is turning and cold and flu season is here, my best defense is a good night.

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sure who's placed where what you guys were seeing yeah so we we come in and uh we start we look at set up in the mornings and like i said earlier the guys are all part of it so there's intimate knowledge every guy has intimate knowledge of the setup. So we come in, we do the placement of where Charlie's going to speak from, and that's kind of like the ground zero. And then we build out from that. And people in the security industry, you know, you have this thing called the concentric circle of security theory, right? And it doesn't have to be a circle. It could be a line or a moving box or however you want to work it. And you have zones, and you have a permissible, a permeable zone, a semi-permeable zone, and a non-permeable zone. And so you can you can come in on the

fly and set up these zones. And so we come in and we set this up. So Charlie's tent and was on that right in the middle. And then we start, so you want to start at the very back. And so we started with a non-permeable zone, but it was one of those ones where it's mainly visual and it's just tape across this arrival section. And all it is is caution tape, but it's just to keep good people good. That's it. And we know that. And so, So, and then, and so that's just to let people, the foot traffic out that we know people won't come in there so that if somebody's doing something bad, they stick out. And then, and then inside that zone, we place our vehicles, and you can kind of see it on the aerial, or you can see it when you see the footage. We put those vehicles behind Charlie's where he's speaking for a reason that day.

It's called Septad, Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. And a worry was that somebody would come down that same driveway and just run us, run him over from the back or run us, run people over. So you stack those vehicles so that the vehicles are being used, kind of like big hescos or something. Barracades. Yeah, barricades. And so that people can't get to him that way. And then we, and then we start, then technically that's, you know, semi-permeable. We still cover it.

It's like, okay, people could walk through there, but they have to be known. And then they went with hard bike racks. So hard bike racks then that come all the way across the back. And they're linked together. And so those bike racks keep people from coming in and out unless they're vetted. And that's where you would start the non-permeable zone. And then we put a guy there, and he physically is there to watch that. And his job, that's his area of responsibility, is he's back cover.

He's making sure people aren't coming up from behind us. he's making sure that the right people can come in and out. They don't have to be back there. And we're not talking about a large area. We're talking an area that was maybe 100 feet across, maybe more. And then there was also a police officer back there. We didn't request him to be there, but he showed up. And so we're like, hey, might as well utilize you.

And so he just held the position on the far left side. And then you got where the tin is. And then this kind of where to get into the meat and potatoes of it, Because number one rule of protection detail work is evade and escape. It is, if we can evade or escape any threat without having to confront it, it's a win. I told you that time about getting shot out with a shotgun. I was pissed because I didn't get to shoot the guy back. And went back to the PD and I'm throwing shit and whatever.

and my sergeant said, hey, man, you won. You didn't get shot at, or you didn't get shot. He's in jail. You won. Well, that's kind of the way you have to look at that stuff and protection works. Like, hey, let's evade and escape. And so things are set up that way.

And so you have where Charlie sits and then you have a guy right next to him. And that person's solely responsible for in times of need pushing him, moving him, getting him out of that line of fire or that those actions, you know, escaping of a, throwing them into that ex-ville vehicle, this parked right behind where we're at.

And then you'll see we ran two double barricades. And those barricades were presidential-style barricades. They're hooked in, the same kind you see the Secret Service use. And so we have an outer layer. And that first layer is just let everybody know, hey, you can't cross this. And they're physically, you know, keeps them from, from pushing over them, and if somebody comes over the top of them, you can see it just from the

mirror elevation change. And then we create a secondary row of them with a gap in the middle of it. And that gap in the middle, though we didn't like it, he liked that because that was able to show, hey, there's nothing between us, right? There's nothing between us that's carry out this conversation. But, so I have two guys that are at that gap. When they come up, and one of them's a measure of a man who has physical capabilities that are incredible. And then the one on the right side is a jiu-jitsu guy, a world-renowned professor. And so their job is, if somebody tries to press through that gap or get close to him, then they're going to hold them up.

And then just off their flanks are two other guys, and Blake and Blake. And those guys' sole job is to control access into that act. alley. And also, if somebody tries to breach the integrity of those two guys, they're there to apply violence so that they can hold that and not, not, we won't weaken our stance. So those jobs, a response to apply violence of those people that are trying to weaken our stance. And then they're also access control into that little alley we've created. That alley creates a secondary gap, but it also allows us to vet people. Make sure, nope, you can't bring packages in, no water bottles, you know, check for protrusions, all that. And so when they come through

there, and they're the gatekeeper there, right? So on that one side, he comes in, he makes sure, and then they come down, they passes off to the next guy, and he comes up to the microphone and speaks. And then when he's done, he goes out the other side. And that guy makes sure he moves on, and then the guy Blake on the other side, make sure he goes all the way out. And so they have, those guys are dual-rolled, wear them up. They're there. If these guys have problems, they're going then to apply violence so that we don't lose any integrity of our protection so we can facilitate escape. And then they're also gatekeepers. And then you get deeper in the crowd, and there's the guys that, what they're looking for is walk-ups, the guys that are walking up

close. They're in the crowd. They're in the crowd. They're working. Plain clothes. They're playing clothes. They're working in the crowd. And Rick's over there. Rick's job is to watch what's going on here and in turn and apply and look at the line. And you look for things like military age males that aren't having social contact with other people. Right. You know, so they're up there, but there's no looking around. There's no talking. They got prey gaze on the guy who's talking. No blinking. So there's a hard prey gaze, no blinking. Or when you get closer, there's excessive blinking.

And so that's a good tell right there of a pre-incident indicator of violence. These guys are out there doing that. All of them are doing it in real time. And so, and you're looking for that. And how many of those guys over there? We have, in that, right so far, we've gone through one, two, three, four, five, six. Six. All right.

And then so then, so then we got those guys. out in the crowd. We got Scott working it over on the flank to make sure people from above or not throwing rocks down on people. Chris is over there with them. You got Justin and Alex holding that hard line. You got response to violence guys right here. You've got intel gather a guy out here and making sure there's no walk-ups and or people that would walk up and physically want to apply violence in close proximity. And then you start getting, we had to rotate some guys because we had people coming in and exactly doing that. Started pushing up signs, started chanting,

started to create distraction and making problems. So we pushed a couple of guys over just to keep an eye on that. And those are guys who are doing direct reporting. So they're the ones that are saying, hey, it's 14 of them, or they're just doing signs. And so they're giving us real intel in real time. And these are also the guys that, they're working the outfield

and these guys are they're out there for a reason. These are seasoned guys, these 30-year cops that have shown and not cops that are just in their checking boxes. These are guys that went to work every day and they're like, my job's to catch bad guys. How do you catch

bad guys by doing work? They're work finders. And so that's why I put them out there because they know to how I go out and find work. They're not going to wait for work to come to them because it's too late then. An example of that was before it's even over with, I mean, before it even started, we put those guys out in the crowd and they're walking around, presence patrol, gathering information. And we saw some guys

that were standing up in one, not in the Sorensen Center to Lucy, but another area. And it was a guy that was in his 40s that looked like he obviously wasn't a student or was too old to be a student. He had a backpack, no socialization, wasn't talking to other people. And so we went up and did contact and conversation. Hey, Hal, what's going on? You know, what brought you here today? And then we did that several times. And then we turned all that information over to the FBI.

Is that the guy that was, is this the guy that stood up? Okay, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. And so those guys are in real time out in the crowd. because that's our area of responsibility reporting real-time intel to us. So you got, you guys, if I were to, if I had a schematic of this, of the venue right now, which we'll put one up, I mean, you have this entire venue broken into zones. Zones, areas of responsibility. Scanning, different people scanning.

Every zone's covered from scanning. Not only do you not have, not only do you not just have scanning, you also have actual playing clothes. Security professionals within the crowd. We're all dressed like, you know, we're just wearing regular clothes. We're not wearing suits in jail. Yeah, I guess I meant detached from the detail. Nobody really knows that they're in the security element.

I mean, they look at, they're not, you know, they all have the look, right? But they're not college kids. Yeah. They're all tasked with an active responsibility for that area of responsibility. And then they overlap. So those areas responsibility overlap. They don't go 200 meters out because there's a saying that these guys,

I always talk to them about it. We train to it is you have your area of responsibility. But if you're looking out all over this, you're not going to see anything. You've got to look at less so you can see more. And so you pare down what you're looking at. And you pare down through that area of responsibility so you can see the things that are going on. And once that's cleared, you move to the next one. But if you're just looking out at the mountainside, all you're going to see is the mountainside.

And the rooftops were supposed to be covered from the police drones. PD said, I got you covered. I've got you covered. And so that zone was dropped. Yes. And so that's the assignment of our team. You know, personal security detail is just that personal. our mathematics are there's three thousand people within 50 meters right and so we're working that

and then we also have that but then you also have the guys that are inside that bubble and then I'm off to the ride of it in my area right there is command control it's say man we're looking a little weak over here or a guy's reporting and I need assistance over here right can you see this I can't see that. And so we're working in real time on comms for that. And or helping fill in a spot. Somebody gets out of hand. I don't run over and jump on Blake and help Blake

because I know Blake's a big boy and he can handle himself. I go back, fill in where Blake just left so that we're not leaving something open to go address a threat. You know? And so unless it's something catastrophic, obviously. And then you saw in the video

where something catastrophic happens, there's no chatter needed, there's no talk to be needed. Every guy's done that. We practiced that. And there was a radio personality. I won't even say his name because he's not worth it.

But he came out and he's like, look at this. These guys are like a football team. You can tell they were zipping and zapping. You can tell they rehearsed this. You can tell they were staged. This was staged. And I'm like, they didn't even hesitate.

And he's sitting there just cracking us because our guys didn't run around like with chickens with their head cut off. And I was like, yeah, we practiced that. How it's supposed to be. It's how, when we train, we have iterations, whether it's PT or medical or shooting. And in the guy that finishes last, because everything's a competition, because that breeds near perfection. The guy that finishes last,

he has to get carried by the team to the next generation. And how do we carry them? The same way we carry Charlie. So that's been done literally hundreds of times. And so you don't need to talk about what you need to do when you know what you need to do. Was there anything strange, anything stand out, anything at all? Or did this just, you know, once you guys were in place, once the event it started, Charlie was speaking.

I mean, is there anything that seemed out of place at all? Well, we do the arrival, and we were supposed to do a meet and greet when he first arrived. And that meet and greet was in a hard room. Okay. But the timeline was a little off, so he decided, where they radioed to us, hey, meet and greet's going to be off. And so we're going to run in and use the restroom real quick. and then we're going to go straight to the tent. And so that was a call off, but that's one of those things.

It's not abnormal, and we're used to that. But it doesn't change the plan other than we're going to a known. Somebody's going to receive him over there. Everything's clear, which it was. So we had a guy back by the restrooms to receive them. I had the door to pop it open. He walks in. He goes, hey, Brian, did you get any sleep?

because we just got back from that South Korea, Japan. I said a little bit, and the last thing he ever said to me was, it's going to be a good day. He said, good. I said a little bit, he said, good, it's going to be a good day. And so we used the restroom, and then we did a couple meet and greets with some kids that were student volunteers.

just right by that tape, you know, and so we did a hard line to keep people from walking up, and then we proceeded right to the tent. And so he starts throwing out the hats, which is the thing he is. Guys are already in place at that time where comms were calling in, hey, walking up, you know, five seconds, ten seconds. They come up, crowd reacts, and then everybody goes to looking in their area responsibility for, you know, walk-ups, guns, people throwing things, stuff like that. And that would be the area right in front of all. And with the, just one more thing to cover, the evacuation routes, I mean, we had already

covered, you guys have been there, you'd had a presence there for two weeks prior to the event. Do you have the routes to all the venues, more specifically the hospital? Do you have multiple routes to the hospital? Yeah, so what we do on that one is, and we're not there for two weeks. but we start working up for two weeks. And that all gets plugged in. Where are we going? And the one that we went to was the closest one.

But it was a level three. Yeah, we knew that. The next close one was another seven minutes away. We're going to the closest one. Yeah, and we belied it to there. And I'll get into how we got there and what we did on the way in a minute. But, yeah, all that's plugged in.

You know, all that, it's information, and it's known. And we have a guy that even though that route's pre-done, even know that's known, we still have a guy in there that's calling it out in real time on that right side. I mean, he's nav, and that nav is important, you know, because the guy's driving, is driving, and we needed just in the expert drove that day, like, man, yeah, incredible. And so, yeah, all that's known beforehand. And so when people said, oh, you should have an ambulance there. It's like, well, one, I can't make the city put an ambulance there.

Now, there is a Utah law that says for mass gatherings like that, a Utah law says that for mass gatherings, a health officer needs to be assigned. I don't assign them. The PD does, whoever does. And then it says, in that law, it says that they may determine where an ambulance is on standby. And I'm like, okay, well, they did have standby UTV medical there. But I can't make them make that. And first rule of emergency medicine, when an EMT goes, because I've done this, if you don't walk into the room when you're doing your skills portion and say, hey, is the scene safe,

they fail you, and you're done. Right. And so those medics that were around that buggy were nowhere to be found. Why? Because they're taking cover like everybody. else and so and the type of wound that we had it's not a weight to the ambulance gets there yeah and i'll talk about that and what that docks in and transport and all that so all that was known and all that's done in the workup so looking at hindsight here through the security footage i mean it came out that you know the shooter went unnoticed at 1150 a m in the grassy area 1202 p.m. near the loose center, and then at 12.23 p.m., when the shot was fired approximately 142 yards away, what was, you know, what was your immediate response?

I'll address the shooter in the timeline first. It's like, you know what I want to know? I want to know when he got on the roof because we're shooters, where it's easy, because we have a range. And our guys do it as a sense of pride. Even though we know we work on all this other stuff more, the shooting we work on because it's a sense of pride. And so you look at things like that. In that shooting position,

three meters to the right and 10 meters to the left, there was no shot. And so I want to know when that guy got on the roof. Let's put the visual of what that looks like on the screen right now. We took that shot before, we always do. We sat down in the space, and we take the shot and send it back to Charlie so that he can see what he's going to see. Yeah, and that's a routine thing that we do.

It's a good idea. Yeah, mental preparation. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So here's a visual of what you guys were able to see. Yep, and so here's my question. And hopefully it'll come out in timeline. We've all seen the pictures of the guy when he came on through the staircase.

It's like, okay, there's a difference between a guy walking up and getting on a roof and a guy walking up and getting on a roof. And did he run over to a known position? What you're doing there, tactically, is you're working a loophole. You guys did that on a roof. You bang a hole through one side, you know, and then you set back and you put another hole and you shoot through that hole and that opportunity comes through.

This is a big loophole. And so you tell me you just ran up onto a roof, pop yourself down in a position that was in a loophole. Can you describe that loophole again real quick, just now that we have the visual up, so you can see it? So you get up on this Sorensen Center, I mean, not Sorrentson, or Lucy Center,

that's behind the Soresen Center. And so from where we're sitting, where we're standing, we can't see it. One, it's not our area of responsibility, so that's why we're not looking there. First one, we're looking at threats right in front of us. You see, how many threats do you have in front of you right here? About 3,000.

3,000. Right, and so that's what we're looking at. And then it's kind of like you could be in front of an 18,000-foot mountain, and there's a 36,000-foot mountain behind it. You're not going to see it. And so we have to be cognizant of that. And then if he would have stopped just a little bit to the right, he wouldn't have been able to see it because the source and center would have been in the way.

I mean, you can, it's a very specific point. It's not just, which is what I thought. I thought it was just climb on the roof and you've got the vantage point. So you're telling me there's enough blind-ass luck that you ran up there, didn't crawl. You didn't, you didn't get up, he didn't get up there like the, secondary guy that tried to shoot Trump, where he was bugged down in the weeds for a while. This was a boom on, boom, run two, boom, take the shot. And it's like, did you get all that off?

It had to have been rehearsed. To find that, which I believe you said is basically a, what a, did you say seven foot, seven foot vantage point basically had? Oh, I'd have to... It's small, whatever. It's small. It's not big. There's the visual. Who gives a fuck?

It's a small, small area. It's not something... And then... You would have to search for that. You would have to search for that vantage point if you didn't know. So it would be great to see the footage. Maybe it's out there of him running straight to the point, or did he search around looking for it? That's exactly what I want to know.

Do we have... It'd be great if that chief of police would have put that fucking drone up. We'd have had it. or I'd have flown that drone up his ass if we could have had one. So those are questions I have. Those are tactical questions. I mean, we make our guys do that kind of stuff all the time. Yep, nope.

You're going to run 300 yards. You're going to jump over this wall. You're going to come home and you're going to take this shot with ours is about 35 foot declination at 200 yards. And you see guys that are even trained MIFID every once in a while. And people are like, oh, that's an easy whip at 142. I'm like, yeah, the shot itself, but you're talking about old men that shoot stuff all sandbags.

You and I both know, under duress, accurate shots are different. It's not a, 142 yards is not a difficult shot with a magnified optic. It becomes more difficult when you're winded, when you're climbing, when you're running, when you are nervous, when you're about to take a life, when you're wondering if anybody else is seeing you, I mean, there's a lot of induced stress. And, you know, and I just want to, you know,

I mean, we're looking at this thing right now, this first person view of what it looked like from under the tent. And, I mean, I don't know how long he was in that gap for, but it didn't sound like it was very long. And you have 3,000 other threats that you're looking at, the rooftop supposedly being covered by the police. Maybe it would have.

have been a good idea to make confirm that the police had the drones up but i mean you are talking to the chief of police you would think that he would have the fucking drones up we knew there were no drones but then somebody earlier that day flew a drone up correct yeah so actually you probably wouldn't have confirmed because there are drones up we didn't know where it came from and we're like what's to deal with this now um it's not uncommon for the audio or the video team to throw a drone up and then take a quick shot and we've had that before now their drones are different because they use those little bitty ones and so they're not covered under the requirements and so it's like again um yeah you're right we we do I need to call a grown ass

man and say hey are you doing your job do I need to do that you shouldn't and and You know, this is, you know, it's... Especially a man in that position. And it's like, hey, man, I'm not a fan, but, you know, Bill Belichick won for a reason. He told his people, hey, do your job. And, hey, if you don't want to do your job, that's fine. Do the job you said you were going to do. How about that one?

So that's kind of where our guys are set up on there. And then I was to Charlie's right. there were a lot of there's a lot of chatter on the internet about hand and arm signals you know from the security team there's been concerns about it from my own uh personnel at work here i've worked security details done a lot of sniper work did you ever use hand and arm signals i used hand and arm signals every single time on every detail everywhere i went and you know one of the rumors was oh you know he's got the ball cap he did the ball cap wiggle that's that's the marine corps sniper i've been a lot of sniper operations nobody wears ball caps so you're so that that was my lead question you ever use hand signals and it's like yes yes were your hands you get you would already established i'm just i'm going to cover for you yeah because that this is a rumor that i just fucking hate i know because that is what it takes you can't be on the

the radio all the time because you're tying the net up. We had already established that you had other security professionals within the crowd that you're trying to communicate with, and that's how you do it. That is how you do it. Well, I'll speak to this one. You're using hand signals, or if you were to use hand signals, and those are an option, especially like under MBG or things like that. One, are those hand signals normal ones that you would see during normal gesticulation are those definitive hand signals? They're definitive so that they can't be confused with a guy scratching his ass. And so that's the first one. The second one is that hand signal, when a bubble team is there, we're not using hand signals. Snopper details, absolutely. Why? Because

you can see that. Are we looking around at each other looking for hand signals? We're looking at in the front in our area of responsibility. If we needed to relay a message, then we would, hey, right here on comms. And or we're notorious for, if I need to get somebody's attention on the team, I'm not going to sit there and use a hand signal if he's in my line of side. I'm just going to go like that. He's going to look up and I'm going to go.

And so if I looked up and did a hand signal on the team and did that or that, he's going to look at me like, so what do you want me to do then? So for that, that's not good communication. It has to be definitive. It has to be necessary. It could be an acknowledgment. Absolutely. Yeah.

Received. Give me out of here. Yep. You're right. Absolutely. Yeah. What you're doing there is deliberate. Yeah, these are deliberate, you know?

Yeah. So, no, we don't use hand signals on that one. We didn't use hand signals that day. We've never used hand signals other than the general ones. Here. Two people here. You know, none of that was done. None of that was done.

You had Frank Turrick and people messing with him because he adjusted his hat. It's like, okay, and substantiate, so he touched his hat. There were a line of people in the front and all the other people that also did all kind of things before that. It's like everybody's subject to that. I get it. Man, I'm a shoe, and I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but I do believe that there are things out there bigger than you and I that are in operations. It's a fact.

I also am a huge believer in the First Amendment. And so these people that are out there saying all this, back up, why is the First Amendment so important? Because back in the day when our founding fathers said, man, why do we need this amendment first? And because a voice is in arms for people that don't have arms. that's what it was for a collective or a single voice

could be powerful to a hierarchy of people that can't be conquered with an arm so we have to have this voice and we have to protect this voice at all costs and they said and they wanted us to have that and that's why they put it first and it should be used as a shield

well nowadays with the media and now social media, that right has been used as a sword and the sword of public opinion. It's like, hey, well, let's just put a bunch of lies out there and claim First Amendment.

And we can say whatever we want. And it's like, when's that stop? And literally, whatever you want. You've seen some of the idiocy out there, Palm gun, exploding microphone, hand signals. It's like, it doesn't even have to be true, and it doesn't matter. And so you're just using that First Amendment as a sword and not a shield. And we've got to step back at that and look at it.

I was talking to your guys earlier, and I was like, at some point you put those people in the way back machine. And the way back machine is you take them to 1985. And when people said something that was untrue about you or your family, and they said something bad about you that other people heard, you split their lip. There's a consequence. An immediate consequence. Not a consequence that comes through a lawsuit three and a half years later, an immediate consequence. So that a level of respect is gained. And then also, hey, if you do this again, I'll see you next time as well.

at some point some people need to be put in the way back machine mm-hmm definitely not going to disagree with you on that one so let's talk about the the immediate response let's get back to that could you tell it was gunfire yes how could you tell um I've been around gunfire my whole lot that's the first one and so

and there's a there's a different type of gunfire right we were at Berkeley last night and you heard somebody decided to pop off some bunch and they were loud like six

seven M80s at a time and people started panicking and running and one of my guys look I said that's not gunfire it's a different sound you give you an attribution of sound and so you're used to it and having a range

and so you're around it and you even get to like well that was a rifle that's a pistol that's a big boy rifle that's subsonic you mean you you can PID all those with your ear you know I'm no sniper but you're out there hanging out with those guys and you get that sniper's ear pretty quick

because they'd say hear that that's what that is and so I've got my back to Charlie about I don't know less than 10 meters off to his right and my area of responsibility just we had a big a lot of people coming up some staircases there

and it was starting to fill in and so I was watching that and I remember I heard the gunfire and then I don't know if you've heard this, but I heard that bullet slap him. So you hear two sounds, actually. And so you hear the actual shot, and then you hear the bullet hit him in the neck, like you hear it. And so in my head, I had an attribution to that. Oh, I know what that is. And so I turned, and

at the, when I turned, I started running, that's when Dan grabbed him. And I mean, this is a live fire event. It's not, everybody, everybody thinks in hindsight, well, this is a one-shot assassination. And our heads, there's fire. You don't know what that is. There's fire. There's more to come, right? And so Dan grabs Charlie and then who's Dan? Dan was the guy standing right next to Charlie when he got shot on the stage. And then I was to the right of Dan. Okay. And so He grabs him, and then I turn and see him start to the ground, but then I'm just thinking gunfire. And then he's leading to the ground because I'm on his right, where he was shot right here in the left of his neck. And so I jumped down on top of Charlie to cover him because where we're at, it's concealment at best.

It's a tabling with cloth on it, so it's not hardcover. so and guys our guys are start piling back in and they're down putting a human shield around him but it's still just concealment it's not cover and so i initially dove down on top of him and and just was on him almost face to face and when i was doing that i went down i could see the wound and so i immediately shoved my hand into the wound to stop the bleeding just trying to find the pressure and it was coming out of out still and I'm on top of him like close and it was still coming out enough that it I guess it squirted through my fingers and I could taste it on my lips and so I was like man this this a bad wound right and so I was just pushing that and I don't I don't know at that time I know when you

look at the clock I was on him within five seconds and had my hands in him and then I don't know when I put the first piece of medical on him. It was sometime after that because I carry it right here. That's why you carried on you. You got to have it there. But then I remember pulling back away and thinking, damn, this is bad. It's coming out. And I don't remember saying this, but the guys told me, and you can kind of see it on the video.

I said, prep the car. And I just prep, and you see the two guys just take off. And that car's prepped in position, but wide, I mean, doors are open. Yeah. And the whole deal. And then so we're doing pressure control there, and it's a crotted artery, so you can't put a tourniquet on it, obviously. And in my head, I'm like, you know, pack pressure prey, man.

these are what you can do for that wound but then so I'm on top and then I told the guys we got ex-fill we're all out here in the open we're trying to we're trying to give wound care and we got to get off this X right and so but I just said we're X filling and so we got up I think it was like 15 16 seconds from the time the shot happened to the time we were picking him up and had 15 to 16 seconds that's what it was yeah and so That's fast. And this is horrible, but I... It's fast to get an initial assessment, plug a hole, pick them up, move them.

Yeah. And so it's just like, dang. And it's some horrible realities of it, too, that like I told the guys this, and I haven't. You, uh, when I jumped down on him, he had doll's eyes. And so I was like, man, these are wounds incompatible with life. You know. Yeah. You want to take a break?

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It's fine. It's mainly the It's going through your head Like I said I was like man, this is a bad wound It's not compatible with life And that's an old medical phrase That you use

For reporting later I mean I hate to get graphic But that's Yeah no no That's how you do it Absolutely I remember Yeah

The eye thump Yep And so There's no movement after you thump the eye That is it's done Same same same And so at the time time i mean i broke down just then but i think some some of my close friends had told me i didn't i

didn't weep a tear after that for like three weeks not you know it's like hey man and i was like yeah there's the time for that you know these guys me the guys i'm with we've seen a lot of uh effects of violence messed up kids guys that stick things into kids and and just horrible people right and you compartmentalize that junk right so that you can uh you've got a job to do and then sometimes those things when you open that box they come out right and that was one of one so you know i'm sure it's good for me at some point uh but uh so we get back to that and so i'm down on him and and i i don't know if i when it sprayed me in the face it caused me to flinch back or what but then sometime around then i said they prep the car and you see two of the guys just

take off towards the car and then uh gibby and rick and dan and we in me we i said they that's exville now you know and so we get up in the timeline on that's like 15 16 seconds something like that where you can see we're prepping but the problem is direct pressure right so when you're in a medical deal and you've been in in i've had these before on major accidents and gsws when you show up on causes you you can't give direct pressure and move right in exfiel and you can't you you have to you have to have counters like giving CPR you can't give people CPR like that you have to have something so it's okay okay well let's just get in the car you can't yeah but then you can't apply direct pressure to move either because it's the neck and there goes the airway right and so and

And it's just a, it's, it's damn near the worst. And then, like, you don't give first aid when it's raining on you still, right? Or this first shot, second shot, how many more is coming in? So, you know, and so, so I was like, hey, it's just called for Rexville. So I called for Xville, and so they let's go. The guys had prepped the car. So we're carrying. We trained officer down.

I don't know how many times or, you know, person down. And we were carrying, and you can see it on the video. Rick breaks off at the. perfect time. He goes around to the other side, jumps in. We do the drag. Don't try to shove the guy in. Half the team pushes in, the other half team drags from the other side. There's no comms for that. Just knew. He knew that's what we need to do. We've done that. He's done that. We've got careers built on doing that real time and in training. And so guys weren't helping. Justin gets in. He knows his job to drive. You know, that's his job. Dan jumps in. He knows he's

nav. And so we're back there. Rick, we pull them across. Frank Turrick, and it just jumps in the back. And, and so he's a known. So I was like, yep, it's Frank, but I'm not going to fight him on it. Frank's there because Frank's hurting, you know, and it's because it's one of those things where you have dead kids on calls and you're not supposed to let the crime scene be contaminated, but I'm not going to deny a parent the ability to come in and say goodbye to their child. and Franks many times said that Charlie felt like he was his son. I'm not going to deny him that. All this is running.

And so we get in. Charlie was a big man, long. We kind of laugh about it now, but we get him in, but the door's not going to close. We know that. And I just say go. And we didn't even attempt to close it. I told Justin, go, go, go, go.

So he takes off. Dan's already got the route done. We know that because we've done it. And so we take off in direct action. We get out out onto the main road. And we're in a slick SUV. No light sirens. And so we're breaking our own intersections.

We're cutting our own traffic. We're doing everything ourselves. Justin's driving. I mean, it's he's, he's, he's, train driver. I mean, that's what our guys go to driving school for, just for that. It's expensive. It costs a lot, but it's a need, and it paid off because he drove like a champion. Dan's up in there, calling out right-left, where this is next turn, 20, you know, 200 meters left, so he knows exactly where he's going. Rick and I are in the back, and this is where it gets

not funny, but you look back on it now. We, Rick pulled Charlie across, and then I'm working off my kit. And you always, when you build a kit out like that, you build it to where the stuff you need the soonest or most important is on the outside, right? And so all the bleed control is right here in front. So I'm just working out of the kit right there. And so I'm just, you know, packing, pressure, repack.

It gets saturated. you don't take it out you just keep packing on top of it the problem is we're going down the road and charlie's so tall that his leg his left leg is down in the door and the door won't close and so i'm on my knees with the door open with my butt hanging out of the side and i'm on my knees doing the medical, and Justin's driving, you know, we're going 60, 80, 100, and Rick has me across the kit and my shirt so that I can use both hands to do the medical one. So you don't fall out of the fucking car. So I don't fall out.

And I just look at him, and I don't need to say, you got me, he's got me. I know he's got me. Rick's a brother. He's got the tattoo. And so I was like, eh, he's got me. And so I just, I'm just working medical. And Frank's praying out loud. Rick's praying out loud.

But does he have a pulse at this point? So, and there's no way. In a situation like that, I'm not going to stop and take those. I didn't know if somebody else had one. No, and so I have SPO2 monitor there. I've got all the stuff for it. I could have put it on, but it's irrelevant. it's irrelevant to treating that wound right and so i've got to stop that bleeding that's my

primary thing and so whether he had a where he had a pulse then it's unknown um the body's an amazing thing that can do things even when it's technically you know destroyed and so uh my concern is bleed control and so i'm just uh rick's got me Justin's driving uh world's coming by i'm working uh putting i end up putting uh about 36 feet of uh dressing in him uh and then four uh four by fours and then two hemistatic four by fours sheesh uh and then just pressuring the whole time so you're adding there's pressure as much as you can get uh pressure adding pressure. And so we are heading to the hospital.

You know, it's a known. We're heading there, breaking intersections. We picked up a tail from PD somewhere along the way, and I noticed some audio came out about that. And I think they thought it was a secondary person that had been shot. But we didn't know if it was an active shooter. You know, everybody that says,

oh, you should have treated him there. and not moved in, stop the bleeding. I'm like, well, yeah, I know. Same way, I was like, man, if it, no, that's not, medicine doesn't happen on the X. You know, you need nothing happen. Somebody shoots at you, you get off the X, right? And so, and we didn't have cover. Just for anybody that's listening, that is rule number one, law enforcement, military, security, anything, get off the X.

Yeah. And so. rounds are coming in. Yeah. And so we get to the hospital. Actually, we make it to the hospital through the traffic. We've got full wound pack in. We get out and we carry in to the door.

Once we make it into the door, when we see a gurney on the left-hand side, we put him on a gurney, and then I wheel him into a room. I start giving the patient information. to the staff there, I ended up getting on top of him and cutting the shirt that he had on off, that white freedom shirt. And so I cut it off so they could get to him so that I didn't articulate this to them, but I wanted to get that stuff off so they could put a defibrillator on him. And then started talking about pushing drugs.

and so I was back and forth and with them on drugs and defibrillator and so then you know once you get that cut shirt off and moved out of the way you know there's enough of medical professionals in there and so I just want to get out of their way

and so I got out of their way and walked out of the room and stood outside the room and held guard on the outside door of the room so nobody else could come in there covered in Charlie's blood Yeah, I had it all over my face. Rick and I had it all over our arms.

From about here down was just covered. And yeah, and it was, I feel bad for the hospital staff because we showed up looking like that and they didn't know we were coming. even though we had called 911, but I don't know what happened to that. So we show up and guys got blood all over their face and carrying a guy with blood solid on my pants and shoes. And so then I just stood out there.

And then finally, this lady and I feel horrible, she came up to me and she said, hey come with me and she took me in a room and physically washed my face and my hands and stuff a nurse that was there to hospital so it was like man what humanity man man so it's there was a lot of beautiful things a lot a lot of beautiful things there. Same thing with him. He's going through the same thing. He's covered in it. And Justin's there. And Dan was there and everybody's got this look of bewilderment like, hey. And so I told Justin, I said, check on the men and call your kids. Because I was worried about them. Because when we left, our guys went back into the crowd

because they didn't know because everybody was on the ground so those guys that were still there they went back in the crowd searching for other victims no kidding yeah because they didn't know because everybody's just lay in there frozen

and so once we got out of there they went back in and started searching for other victims and people that were had been shot and so I didn't know their status And it was horrible, compoundingly horrible. When I jumped down on top of Charlie, my phone came out of right here.

And so, of course, I just left it. I didn't know it came out. So I get to the hospital and I don't have the ability to call my children and tell them I'm okay or my parents or my fiance. And when I travel abroad, in the old Conish job, I do, I have a workup, and all the numbers and everything, and I have it hidden, and so I can call it a conish job. And, I mean, I can still remember numbers from when I was in high school of my friends, but I just don't remember numbers nowadays. And so I couldn't call them, and so they're at home just suffering because I can't call them. And so I said, man, I can do better than that, you know.

So finally got a hold of my ex-wife and then said, hey, from somebody else's phone, I think via like Facebook Messenger or something. I can't remember what it was, but it was like, hey, we'll figure this out. And then I said, hey, I'm going to call, answer the phone. and my daughter entered the phone and she had already gone to her house waiting to hear something and so there's always a concern in her voice but I said hey I'm good I'm fine I'll call you so when I get a chance and so started asking for check-ins for the guys who were still at the scene like hey everybody okay read me in we have other victims what's going on and they got reached

tasked. That same chief of police came out, said, hey, y'all hold this crime scene and help us look for other clues. And I'm like, that's a no-no. But they did it. And so they were back there and then they were just trying to figure things out. And they were there for a while. Man. Yeah. So it was chaotic. But, you know, you find chaotic situations. situations, you find ways to control it inside that situation, right? And they did a good job at that. You know, there's been a lot of rumors going around about there was no autopsy, none of that. Was there an autopsy?

There was. And I can speak to that. Personally, I can speak to that. One, for those people saying that, do a FOIA. do it for you to the medical examiner's office to Utah County get off your lazy ass and do it for you they may not give you the autopsy information right now but they'll certainly tell you yeah there's an autopsy that's the first one um the second one was um the the OR doc they well your question earlier about a pulse we'll get back to that um and so uh they in they're working him in the road

and they end up taking him to the OR because they got a pulse. They did get a pulse? They did get a pulse. But Charlie was a healthy man. He was very cognizant of his health, and he was a strong guy. They've had a pulse. Hold on. How long it had been since the shot to the hospital?

I have no idea. I mean, that is a jugular shot. You can be dead. central nervous system, you've got a strong heart, right? And that's what the OR doctor told me. Okay. He said, that's what it was. Holy shit.

Yeah. And so I have no way of, I'm not a doctorate. I just know what he told me, you know. And so we go to that and I'm sorry, what was your question again? We were talking about the autopsy. Oh, the autopsy. And so once they came down and said he didn't make it. And he talked about, he said,

if he had been shot in the OR, I wouldn't have been able to save him. And I was like, I mean, he's just kind of confirming things that already knew. And so I don't know how long, well, I don't know what the timeline was. But I want to say, I can't remember who it was, but I knew. I was like, we're not going to turn this into some JFK. And I specifically asked one of the doctors. I don't know. I remember what she looked like, dark skin, like dark hair, probably 35, 40 years old.

I said, how long until we can get an autopsy? And I remember her saying a day, a day and a half. And I was like, oh. And so, I mean, she's the boss of that. That's just information. And so I remember, I was like, man, that's a long time. We need to get this autopsy done and done right so that there's not some conspiracy. I mean, you're starting to think forward to that.

And so I remember I was standing next to the chief of staff and the vice president called. And the vice president asked him. What do you need? And then he looked at me and said, what do we need? And I said, we need an autopsy now. So for these people that are saying there wasn't one done, go away. It was done. It was done.

Do it for you. Yeah. Get the report when it comes out. It was done. It was done. Yeah, and in the, the OR doc released statements regarding, and there has been statements regarding the bullet and the travel. Oh, there should have been a blowout, and there wasn't, there wasn't an exit one.

There wasn't one. I was checking for that in the ride. Yeah, and so people are like, yeah, it's completely impossible. I was like, man, I've seen bullets do weird things. on people. And so all I know is what I saw. There wasn't an exit one. And so I know there was an autopsy done. One, because we requested it, they were there. And the second one was the local SO, and I believe it was the state police, they did the body transfer that night. through the, um, either emmy's officer funeral home to the ME that night and took

them there. So yeah, for them to, to say that somebody broke the rules or turning point didn't follow the rules, that's lies. It's conjecture and it's lies. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's people, it's when people look at themselves. Yeah, it happened. do you think that the entry wound looked like an exit wound no it was an entry wound why do you say that um so one there wasn't an exit wound because i remember rolling his head over and cleaning it so i could see if there was an exit room and then i was having to open the wound up some to get more and packing uh if you've ever done an exit wound um it's not that hard it's a lot bigger and so um you can feel it when you're you

you know the rule kind of thumb on that one is you don't want to make it bigger but you've got to get keep packing it in there and so yeah it i've heard and seen them all like there was a guy that said you know that the mic blew up and it was a bomb yeah we were we were i was going to wait Yeah, there is a guy online that is saying that the microphone may have had some type of explosive projectile inside of it. So it wrapped around the neck and created a hole? That's the thing that I just couldn't wrap my head around either, is the accuracy that would have to take place from an explosion to actually get you in the neck. But then other people are saying that maybe the explosion killed him. And in fact, there's actually some camera footage that somebody has done some type of assessment on.

But, I mean, you cut his shirt off. Right. Did you see any burn marks? Did you see any indication of any type of explosion? Back it up even further to that. You've been around explosive and shape explosives and stuff like that. It's like, what do you have when you have that? They had that down to like frames, right?

Where was the flash? If that was an explosion, where was the flash? You have oxygen exchange to create the explosion. Where was the flash? Where was the char? It didn't exist. Do you know if his equipment is assessed before it's put on? Yeah, it's actually held up there.

That company that is a contract, subcontracting company for them, they hold that all up there because, you know, and they're around it, almost guarding it, because people will steal it. And so, and it's inside the non-permeable zone. Okay. So nobody has access to it. It's set up in there.

Even the boxes are kept in there. And so it's inside that. And so it's on them. And then you can see, they walk up and actually pin it on him. So it's, it, that system is integratized also. And again, that's a reach. Go all the way back to, Where's the explosion?

You got frame by frame. I'm, you know, when that theory came out, I mean, I don't think it's, I don't think it's necessarily out of the question. I mean, we know about the pagers. Absolutely. You know, but, you know, I mean, the way I looked at it was he was wearing a loose fitting t-shirt that had a, I believe, the road mime with the magnet, you know, strapped onto his shirt. on the other side. Yeah. He's moving around.

And so that, you know, that microphone, if it was a projectile, it would have had to have been pointed at the exact same spot, which would have been impossible to do with a loose shirt. Right. You know, and so, and then the, I mean, there would have been an entry wound. It wouldn't have gone to the other side of the neck. You know, but then, you know, there was a, oh, well, it was a trigger man, you know, with a device.

to initiate the blast and it's but still though i mean to have him moving around like this and his shirt is loose shirt to have a piece of weight while he's moving around i mean that you just you could not it would be a coincidence for it to actually happen the way that it did yeah it would be a coincidence it would not be i i don't think he could chalk that up to skill unless unless the explosion is what killed him, but what you're saying, no, no flash, no blast. No char, no, no, no char, no, no, no, no, no, no, you cut the shirt off. You would have seen it. That's a real time, see, too. You know, you've seen explosions. I've seen a lot of explosions. And so you have those attributions. Where's the attribution to the explosion

inside those frames? If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. Don't try to pull. make something into nothing. Right. And so I'm not saying that we shouldn't look at things. By all means, we should. I mean, we look at people and press and in history of the United States how valuable they've been.

And I applaud these guys that are out there humping and working and the one to have the truth. But don't say you're searching for the truth when you're lying to get it. And that's what's happening. Because you're not searching for the truth. You're searching for clicks.

I think that the people posting these, I don't know. You know, I mean, I have mixed feelings. I think some people are legitimately just trying to figure it out. I think that there are other people that are very obviously making a living off of sensationalizing this. But, you know, I mean, I think we live in a time where people don't, including myself, don't know where to find the truth. they don't know who to believe. They are starting not to even believe their own eyes. And do you blame them?

No, I don't. I don't mean either. I don't. I don't. We have zero faith in any of these institutions. You think about this. There is a guy out there, and he has a company called Paramount Tactical, and his name's Gary. And Gary took an ass whipping online because he went out there and said, and he did exactly

what we're talking about right now, and people whipped his ass for telling the truth. because he bucked the system. He said, now, look at this. And he broke it down from a professional standpoint because he has a background in it and a probability standpoint. And, man, and I hadn't talked to him, and he was like 95% right,

even on the medical stuff. And it's like, but then he took an ass whipping on line for it, and I sat and watched it from afar. And it's like, so people get chastised for telling the truth. And then you got, like you said, Who do you believe? I mean, our media, they, big, big poll. They polled our people in the United States. And how many of you believe the media? And it said 70% of them don't believe a word that comes out of the media's mouth. And I'm like, well, let's look at this. If a baker

makes bread every day and 70% of his product tastes like crap, how long is he going to be in business? And then why do we keep letting these people be in business? And then, so that's the big media. You think that's worse online? And then who's to blame? The idiot that's lying or the big Facebooks, Instagrams, and exes that are making money off them line. And then they're monetizing the lie too. It's kind of like back in the day you had the National Inquirer that made money offline. They sold the little cheap papers. All these guys are, and these things are our version of National Enquirer, and they're monetizing that lie.

But, and I say, man, guys, you're losing value of how important that is. You could be the Watergate guy that breaks the truth. But you're taking that away from people. It's like, be the one that tells the truth. Be the Paramount Tactical guy that's willing to take a whipping to tell the truth.

I think, you know, You know, I've talked about this a lot recently, but, you know, I think you have to be willing to poke holes in your own story. You can poke holes in everybody else's story, and that's fine, but you also have to be willing to poke holes in your own story. It's a great way to put it. You know, you should be poking holes in your own story. If you are really a truth seeker, you should be poking holes in your own story along with everybody else's. But where's the oversight to do that? it's gone put a couple guys in the way back machine and you make it down quick that's true that's true

you know you were something that i forgot to bring up with the the the hand and arm signal type stuff is that it looked uh you know there was a lot of chatter on the internet that you you took uh i believe it was a female that handed you some something handed me something on camera was i believe it was you did anybody hand you anything no no the only the only thing that you know i did i remember before charlie was shot in my area um i saw a little american flag on the ground and people were just walking around it like it was nothing and i just walked over and picked it up and put it in my pocket and uh that's the only thing that you know nothing there was some stuff about the guys that uh um said that in the FBI called on that like hey I forget which one you can see one of them do a

hand motion to another did you hand something off and they were like no there wasn't a hand off there wasn't a key exchange um givey reached back here at one point and like adjusted his radio because when he jumped over the table you know it partially came loose or something but and i and i asked all the guys did you guys exchange anything and like no and then you can break down the video break it down to the point where do you you're saying that You saw their hands. What got exchanged? There's nothing that got exchanged.

Nothing. Is there a, do we have that footage, Jeremy? Could you pull that up real quick? Here it is. That's Chrissy. Those are Mints. That's, that's, she works there? She works there.

Those are Mets. Okay. Yeah, put them in my pocket. She walks around in hands, so she hands out, she's an angel. She takes care of her. of us. She makes sure that we're hydrated. She buys the, you know, the stuff to put in the sodium electrolytes. Electrolides to put in the drinks. She walks around and gives us mints, checks on us. Her husband, Angel, does the same thing. And so, yeah, that's who that is. Yeah, not uncommon.

Yeah. There was a man on the team who, after he was shot, I believe he was on the security team, runs towards the vehicles, hangs out outside the vehicles, and takes, I believe it was a TikTok selfie video. Do you know who this is? Can you pull this up, Jeremy? Is it the one where he said Charlie just got shot? Yeah.

Yeah, he's with the audio visual team. Yeah, it's a company that they contract to shoot the footage. It's also the one, he's the guy that went up in... There he is right here. Yep, yep. They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie.

They just shot Charlie. I couldn't tell you. Yeah, he's the one that, if you see him, he's the one that's running the cameras. Okay. Yeah, yeah. He's the audio visual team guy that's running the cameras. He's also the one that they said that he was. was hiding footage or whatever that he turned over all that footage to the fbi so um he did so this is

that this is also the guy that or was that a security guy if you look after the event somebody goes to the camera that was behind charlie pulls the camera down same guy looks like he pulls the SD card out same guy and that footage is in the hands of the FBI correct wasn't deleted wasn't raised he he he actually works for the company called v i and they do their contract ab video people and he's not a security guy he works for the the security and the uh v video company okay yeah and so i don't i don't understand and it's not for me to try to understand that part like the the getting on the phone or that, I don't understand that. And you see that a lot nowadays. Tragic things happen. Yeah. Shootouts and people pull their phones out instead of running.

And so I don't understand that. That's for him to explain, not me. I know he doesn't work for us, but I also know from seeing some of the stuff that he's the same guy that took down the cameras and people are like, what's going on here? You know, and I'm like, well, that's a legitimate ask. That's a legitimate. I think that too. I don't think that's... That's so legitimate, I say, and where did that go? And he was interviewed and asked an answer, an FBI, and that was all turned over, because I asked that question.

These are the questions that are running rampant on the Internet, by the way. So here's... I'm just going to do a quick fire here. Did you see any signs of internal leaks or betrayals within T.P. USA, or the security team that could have facilitated the attack? No, no. I don't, and here's my deal, that's our job, right? And so if they have some stuff going on inside corporate headquarters, that would be

unknown to us anyway. And then we're the contractor, it's a security contractor, which is our team. And then so that direction comes from Dan. that comes to us and uh nothing nothing that would make me believe that hey something's a foot here uh so sometimes i wish no not wish it's like hey if that was happened that would be an easier attribution but i would say this hey if you're going to make that claim you've never able to back it up with the truth because we're talking about allegations that you're making that people are conspiracy or part of a murder we're not talking about cheating in a video game or

handed cards and so if if somebody were to say one of my guys or an employee hey you were part of this murder and you help conspire then I would say I need you to tell me why you said that right now a definitive what now not it's a possibility yeah and it's a possibility yeah and it If you do, let me hear it. But it better be the truth. And if it's not, there's consequence. And so, and that's why there's punishments for that stuff like that. Do I have faith in the system?

I've seen a lot of guilty people walk free because they had money, right? And so I know the system is broken, but you've been around the world. man every time I come home from some place bad I'm like dang we got it good yeah and so no

I didn't see anything to make it lead that that came from the inside okay why do you believe that the security footage has not been released publicly

well obviously FBI's and control of the evidence. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with them on that. You are. I absolutely. Absolutely. I'm with them on that.

Man, that video footage or, or a really good video footage is, is the truth or as close as we have. And so they came back with that gag order to the council and, and so they can information share it because the judge said there's a bar. volume of evidence, right? A voluminous, I think is what he said. And I'm like, okay, because we want to protect his right to a fair trial and we don't want to taint a potential jury.

Okay, I get that. But if, is there not a balance of that? It's like, I'm not asking you to produce the footage, but maybe give us something that we investigated this claim and then we found this and make them put their name on that. I'm with them on that. Give us some information.

It's like you go to public information officer school to be a cop and they tell you, hey, don't go out there and go, this happen, we'll let you know when we figure it out. Because then you're just like, well, are you capable? Do you know what you're doing? Are you hiding something from us?

Yeah. So what do you do? You go out there, even if you can't release the details of it, You go, hey, this happened. We heard this, and this is an attribution that makes us lead to believe that it was a directed crime and not a random crime. So what you're doing is you're letting people, okay, this is starting to make sense. Give us something.

Yeah. Give us something. I mean, this just comes from institutions, hiding things. And has it happened? I mean, you know, maybe had they, I don't know, know release the Epstein files maybe there would be a little bit of trust in the institution brother I could go on for yeah a long time about that needs to be released yeah Charlie wanted it released that's not my opinion yeah watch the videos yeah release them

yeah that wasn't my point wasn't you know I mean, I want them to release them, too. My point wasn't getting into it. I'm just saying, like, this is the shit that causes distrust in the institutions. Of all institutions. And it gets worse, and it gets worse. And if you want to rebuild the fucking trust in the institutions, then you open up transparency and you stop fucking hiding shit from the American people.

100%. That's how the fuck you do it. This isn't rocket science. This isn't fucking brain. brain surgery. This is just and here's my response. Transparency. That's it. You got, I've got a team here that are done and if you'd open that up

and if you'd open that up at least a little bit, six, eight, nine weeks ago, these guys wouldn't have been suffered. We've been doxed. Our credit cards have been stolen. Our children's and parents names have been released online. Wedding plans. Home addresses phone numbers it's like throw us a bone yeah don't let us sit out here and suffer for you when all you got to do is produce something to quench the thirst of these people and you're right you're creating distrust yeah and you're hiding behind well we have to make sure and ensure

that we don't taint a jury for this guy you know and I have questions about that too and so you're I have questions about that and we talked about that earlier we're we're his call logs, his phone, his phone hits. Who'd he talked to two days, four days, eight days beforehand? Why do you think that they tore up and paved over the crime scene so quickly? I have asked that at least ten times. And I said, I don't understand the exigency of why they did that. And here's my question of that.

March your ass up to the school. Have you marched your ass up to the school, or will you march your ass up to that school tomorrow and file a FOIA and say, hey, you're a public institution. I want the request and the plans that were made to tear that up and when those requesting plans happen. Because that didn't, you're not going to request that or you shouldn't request that overnight and have that done. That had to probably go through a budget request, had to be approved. There should be a timeline and paperwork for that. You should be able to get that through FOIA. and so do it make them tell us why that they tore that up before it was even cold i want to know

because it came back on us that we had some trap door and they're covering up the trap door and we had a guy hiding in there okay that's actually my next question i didn't hear about the there was somebody hiding in the trapdoor a gun was hiding or something was there was a trapdoor in a tunnel system? No. There was not. No. So school, why did you tear it up? Why did you tear it up? What was the exigency to tear up something that still people would, did you not think that through? Like, hey, this might, we bet we're going to put a hold on that. This might induce questions to us. And it didn't. Nobody went back and asked questions to the school or said, hey, well, let's do a FOIA and do some back digging on that. That's not for under this evidentiary gag order.

Now, let's just blame the security team because that's the easy way. Go do the FOIA. You know, I mean, back to the exit wound thing. You know, I mean, because we're talking about the tearing up of the crime scene and everybody's wanting them to find the bullet. I mean, if the bullet hit any bone at all,

there is no bullet. It's just fragmentation. Great point. And that was discussed already. And if there was no exit wound. In the autopsy, though, there should be, I mean, if there was no exit wound, then there should be fragmentation of the, the bullet would have fragmented it into who knows how many pieces. The doctor, and again, this is not a non-disclosure violation,

but the doctor told us, came out there and told us. and then they also told chief of staff so the bullet came in and hit the vertebra and it so it came in and then tore up everything in the wound cavity hit the vertebra crushed it shattered it turned crushed the second one turned kept going down all the way i think they said c6 holy shit yeah it's like why not put that info out

why not put it out And then... Why wouldn't they put that out? And if it do me a favor, don't make me do it, it's not my job. And so then it got to here, and you're exactly right. And then hit, I think, six and then fracked. And so explanation 101. What are you hiding?

Yeah. It's like, I'm sitting back here when people are saying we bombed him or there's a wound. I'm like, hey, somebody would, from an official capacity would just release. release that, and I don't see how that could jeopardize a fair trial for a guy. And or somebody called a doctor. Somebody just call him. This guy, George Zen. Are you familiar with this guy?

Is he the one that said, Is the performance immediately after the shooting, I believe he was saying that he had the shooter, who's also a witness to 9-11, called to the bomb threat in Salt Lake City Marathon. I mean, he seems to show up at a lot of historic crisis, right? And then gets arrested and then later gets arrested for child porn after that. And so that was a weird deal because that came to us. the hospital had they have somebody in custody and i'm like awesome and then and then uh our guys helped hold that perimeter area while they were arrested him and i want to say they hang it held

on to some gear or something i'd have to double check with them but they were there assisting the police for that because they're still in there in the crime holding the crime scene yeah and so how did this guy get there and um They did the search warrant on his house, and they released it. It's like, hey, dump his phone and release that too. Dump the tower information and released that too. I want to see who he was talking to two, three, four, five days beforehand. I want to see what towers hit.

Yeah, I want to see that. Yeah, I want to know who is this guy. Why is he around all these things? All these things. What questions do you have? you know you had some good questions about Robinson

yeah I want to know I want to know who this kid is I don't want to know that he was had a something that feeds a narrative of hate and division

that he was a his boyfriend was trans or whatever and that they had text back and forth I want to know it's like

where did he work and and then who were his co-workers and did they interview his co-workers? And then I want to see his phone logs and the towers that had hit. I want to interview his friends.

And did he have any help? They said, oh, well, we have DNA on the rifle. And I want all that information. That's a good tie, right? Now, from a judicial standpoint, I can understand why. They're saying, yeah, we don't want to put all this information out

because the judge said it may taint a potential jury because they're going to seek the death penalty. And I'm like, from a book standpoint, I understand that. But you've got a lot of people out there wondering, hey, did this guy do it by himself? And then you throw my wonder on there. It's like, wow, so he just, the rooftop was clear, and then he jumped up on it,

acquired a shooting position, took the shot. that that shooting position was a loophole if it had been five meters this way or this way wouldn't happen and then can we go through his phone or his computer and find a Google Earth overhead that he was looking at it days, weeks, months before?

Did he access that before? Because obviously it's a problem because that's how we came up on information that it's easily accessed and how we gave it to the chief to say, hey, chief, you got this, right? I got you covered. So that's information we need to know.

I want to know about this kid. I want to know if somebody helped him. Is he a patsy? Is he, was there a group of people? What's a patsy? Is he taking the blame for other people? Or is he part, is he a lone wolf? But then we all thought Timothy McBay was a lone wolf too, right?

And then we come to find out, No, people knew about it. He had assistance. Even if it was assistance of we knew you were going to do something and then we didn't say something. So, yeah, I have questions to him. I have questions, and this is horrible because I'm a father. I have questions to his father.

Aren't they saying that he took the rifle apart with a flathead screwdriver? That's a big one I want to know. And it's like I know there's footage out there. and I don't know what to believe and how it got down. It's like, all right, how did the, how did, I want to know that. How did the rifle get from the roof

to where they found it? That's a big one. How did the rifle get from the shooting position all the way back across to where they found it? And then it was reassembled when they found it, correct? I don't think that it ever was disassembled.

Because even an AR platform, think about it. I mean, pin, pin, break, pull, it's going to take a bit. That's a bolt gun. That's what I'm getting at. Right. It's not going to happen. It probably should have been a little bit more descriptive on about that. So I want to know about that. Yeah. You know, and there's other things. Yeah, yeah. I look at that and I look at all lot of things that are going on. at turning point, you know, and because I saw, man, I've seen people say that Erica was involved

in it, his wife. I've done a lot of death notifications where I had to tell kids that their parents were dead or their parents that their kids were dead, and I know what pain looks and sounds. It sounds like I wake up screaming sometimes, thinking of kids' face. The words that came out of her mouth and how they came out when she walked in that room and saw him, you don't want to hear that. She's a victim. that's her husband

and now people without any proof are saying that she was a part of killing him come on man and then not having anything to substantiate it with that's what makes me lose faith in people and that we allow it

and that platforms allow it it's like it goes against everything that we are. And if we're going to allow that, what else are we going to allow? You hear that kind of pain coming from somebody and see it. And I could only imagine the pain she's feeling now by having to hear that people say that she was a part of. Those are lies. And so that, so, and so we have that organization. It's, it's got this huge power vacuum

going on now. And I'm sure it's, it's, it's defecting it. It's affected me. And so that's, that's an organization with a lot of great people in it, doing good things, you know. And so Where do we draw the line to people making allegations of bad behavior? It's a huge question. I mean, could you imagine, think of this for a second. You've lost friends. And could you imagine somebody reporting that one of your friends, his wife, was responsible for their death, what would you want to do to them?

Yeah. And it's like, man, this is, we're better than this. We should be better than this. And we're not. And people are bitching about the leaders we have. And I was like, hey, we get the leaders we deserve. It's a good point. We don't deserve very much right now.

On each side, on each side, both sides. We get the leaders we deserve. If we want to hold them accountable, we should hold ourselves accountable. Yeah. Are there any other questions you have? No, I just, I mean, I appreciate you. You let me come on, or when I, when I got that phone call, I was like, wow. I mean, I've seen the people that have come here and Don Graves.

He's, he sat here, right? That's Eddie Penny. Ben Carson. It's like, man, I don't deserve this. So, it's a lot of humility in this room, man. Should be. I'm thankful for that. You deserve to be here just like everybody else. Thanks, sir.

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