Shawn Ryan Show - #256 Tucker Carlson - Epstein’s Emails, Political Blackmail and What We Already Knew All Along

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Starting point is 00:01:00 Tucker Carlson. Stop right, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me. This place is so unbelievable. It is. You told me about it, but it's way cooler even than you described. So I love this.

Starting point is 00:01:19 Thank you. I like a man who builds his own world because it reflects your value. It reflects what you care about. Thank you. We put a lot of hard soul under this. it's very obvious thank you and i just i think it's great i like building things i like people who build things and i think it's very important to live and work in an environment that that is beautiful or at least something that you consider beautiful i think it's really important

Starting point is 00:01:45 beauty's totally underrated as an elevator of spirit as a path to clarity the whole modern world is so ugly and it's ugly on purpose you can't think clearly about anything and you come to a place like this and you're like oh this is a man who really thinks about things so thank you man i just you know i like uh i think work satisfaction is extremely fucking important and not you know not just for myself but uh you know i think i told you know my team is like my family yes on your podcast so we talked about that again i feel the same way you know this morning at breakfast and i just i just want everybody to love where the fuck they work you know and and um and be proud of where they work like what are you doing with your life no i completely

Starting point is 00:02:27 I completely agree with you. It's expensive to do that. So that's why most people don't. Yeah. Yeah. Bob. Well, I love it. I got to spend it on.

Starting point is 00:02:37 No, I completely agree. Fucking gay new watch or something. Some dumb vacation? I totally agree. I totally agree. But, well, I mean, holy shit, dude. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:53 I know. What the fuck is going on in the world? Well, there's a spiritual war underway, which I didn't take seriously enough, and you can't understand anything that's happening unless you understand that. I leaned out. I leaned out. Just like we were talking about this, I had to, I had to, I had to, I, I just had to lean out. I can't tell what's real anymore.

Starting point is 00:03:14 We talked about that on your podcast. It just keeps getting fucking worse. And, you know, I just, I'm just looking for, you know, I, I'm just looking for, you know, I'm just looking for something that I can have an impact on. And it's getting hard to find. Well, you know, it's hard to gauge the impact of really anything because our timeline is totally distorted. And I'll speak for myself. I always think that if I say something that's true, it will have an immediate effect.

Starting point is 00:03:46 And there is a kind of vanity to that. Like, can't anyone hear what I'm saying? Like, I already showed. That's a lie. Like, why aren't you adjusting your behavior? And it's like, well, because I'm not God, actually. I'm in charge of anything. I'm a podcaster, which is important to remember if you're me,

Starting point is 00:04:01 because there is so much vanity. People are always like, oh, it's so important what you're doing. And it's like, really? If I was doing something useful, I guess we wouldn't be here, would we? And that is so frustrating that I opted. We had a song, Conversation, Wonderful, which I wish was on tape because it was so deep. But I know. Don't worry.

Starting point is 00:04:20 Everything on breakfast is recorded. I should have said. But, no, I mean, I know the feeling so well. And you were saying, I can't even deal with this. I don't want to deal with it. And I said, oh, man, in June after we, the United States government bombed the nuclear facilities to really no effect, let's be honest. I was so frustrated and disappointed and mad that people aren't listening to me. I kind of retreated and I live in a place where you can retreat to our fishing camp, which

Starting point is 00:04:52 which I sincerely love, but really its signature quality is its remoteness, it's not near anything at all. And we did have Starlink put in a couple of years ago. So you could text from there. So like, why wouldn't you go there on all your off hours with your dogs and just like alone in the woods? So I literally did that. And then in September, you know, Charlie Kirk was my friend, was murdered.

Starting point is 00:05:16 And with the encouragement of another friend of mine, I began to realize that what I was doing was totally self-indulgent and that's not, we're not here to enjoy solitude in the woods or enjoy our fishing camp, the fruits of our laborers, very cheap fishing camp, but still it's like so close to my heart and what I really love about this country and my life is being in that in the woods. So, but that's not why we're here. That's totally self-indulgent. Just because my deepest desire is not hookers and blow. Anymore? Any more. No, but I can tell my story. And I have literally said out loud to people around me, like, really, my darkest sin is I like to sit, you know, far away in the woods up near Canada with my dogs and fish and maybe have an occasional cigarette or whatever.

Starting point is 00:06:05 But that's as naughty as I get. I've got nothing to apologize for it. Why do you think, why do you say that's a big sin? That's your biggest sin. Well, I would be joking. I would say, look, you know, okay, yes, I do like, I mean, we had a, you know, family drama over Starlink. I don't want Starlink, but it was like, well, then no one knows where you are. And I'm like, well, right.

Starting point is 00:06:26 It's the fucking point. Right, well, I did give in, which is a mixed blessing. But anyway, the point is, I would always say the worst thing I want to do is retreat from the world into the woods and fish or hunt. I mean, those are truly my deepest desires. And I just always would joke and be like, you know, you could have someone else in your family who's like in Vegas getting clemen. Or there's me who just wants to go fishing for the week, you know, or whatever. But what I realized was, yes, of course, fishing alone with your dogs is better than getting chlamydia, you know, at the experiment rhino.

Starting point is 00:07:05 But both of them are retreating from your duty, especially if you're a middle-aged man who has, you know, whatever, there's no reason for me not to do my best at this point. There's nothing in my path that prevents me from telling the truth. that I have an obligation to do that. That's why you're here. There's a mission. There is a mission for every man. And your job is to find out what it is and dutifully do it or attempt to do it. And do you see the fruits? Of course not. You don't. And maybe there aren't any fruits. And maybe you're wrong because you don't freaking know. You're just a man. You're totally on the wrong path sometimes and don't even know it. It's happened to me a million times. But you have

Starting point is 00:07:42 to try. And it can't just be, as I always say to people close to me, it's not a lot of blow jobs and french toast man like there's a part where you have to work no that's the dream right blow jobs and french toast you know oh man i mean i don't i don't know i don't know tucker i have like this huge internal battle going on right now i get it it's it's again we talked we should probably stop having breakfast for now on and just you know do the do the actual interview here but i you know I'm not going to quit, but, you know, I go back and forth. I mean, there's so much, yes, there's a lot of positives and you talk to a lot of cool people and I get, you know, got to know you and I'm very thankful for everything. But, you know, like I think about, I got a fucking large property about 45 minutes south of here.

Starting point is 00:08:36 And lots of acreage, middle of nowhere, very, very inexpensive property that I've owned since I moved here. Those are the best inexpensive rural property. It's a little bitty fucking hunt cabin that's like it's you wouldn't want to bring a woman there unless my wife. Those are the best kind. But we used to go before all this shit happened, we used to go down there and just escape. We wanted to escape all the way back then. And we don't have time to do that anymore. And like I went down there last weekend and to actually like just get out of here, even though I live in the woods.

Starting point is 00:09:21 That's farther in the woods. And I just fucking got down there, man. And I was like, it made me sad. Like I was like, Katie and I used to come down here all the time. Not talk to anybody. No, no cell reception, no internet, no nothing. Like no jets flying over, no chemtrails, no noise. nothing, just solitude, nature,

Starting point is 00:09:47 and a couple people cooking meth across the street. But it just made me sad, man. And I'm like, I think about it now, and I'm like, those were like better times. Oh, yeah. You know, and now, you know, I've built this business and fame is set in. And it's, you know, when you're building this shit,

Starting point is 00:10:13 you sure as hell don't think you're going to look back on the times that you were before you even thought about building it and go those were simpler, better times. It makes me fucking sad. You can always be sure you look backward and consider time that has passed simpler and better. That's just the nature of life. You always look back. I look back on the 80s and I'm like, damn, I correspond with my girlfriend by letter, you know, how great that was. I just think that's the way people are, but I also, I think of it this way.

Starting point is 00:10:45 It's like, and I think that's not just of myself, but if everyone around me, the more blessed you are, the deeper your obligation. That's just true. The point of leadership is to protect the people you lead. I don't believe in a flat society. I'm not a populist in any way. I believe that no structure, beginning with the family, works without leadership. And so I think a lot about what is leadership, and leadership is sacrifice.

Starting point is 00:11:11 And so the more you've been given, the deeper your responsibility to sacrifice for others. I really believe that. And that's obvious when you're working hard toward a goal, you know, I'm putting everything into what I'm striving to achieve, you know, fighting my way up. The problem for men, and so few men actually achieve this that it's almost never talked about, the problem for men is getting what you want. The problem is winning. That's what destroys you.

Starting point is 00:11:35 The fight doesn't, I mean, you've been in real fights, obviously. With real fights, I happen to know. not just with others, but with yourself, and you prevailed, that's way easier than winning. Winning is what destroys you. David was not intimidated when he picked up the stone against Goliath and then ran up and beheaded him. The problem set in when he sees this girl and he's like, I can bang her. I'm king. He destroys himself.

Starting point is 00:12:01 That is the template for the way that men are. And no one tells you that because, again, there are so few people who actually get what they want. And there's no support group for people who won, but I know a lot of them. I know that you do too. And a consistent theme in every story is the second I got what I wanted, I could feel myself starting to self-destruct and lose confidence and faith in myself and my mission and all this stuff. And that's one of the gifts that we get, I think, as people, if we pay attention, is the

Starting point is 00:12:29 humility that comes from failing. Like, every time I've thought I've won and I'm like, get cynical and deck it in and like, yeah, I'm in charge now. then I get fired, humiliated again, and then I look back and I'm like, oh, thank you God for humiliating me because it restores a sense of purpose and takes me down from hubris to reality, et cetera, et cetera. But underneath it all is the fact that the more you've been given, the greater your obligation to others.

Starting point is 00:12:57 And as I said, as I told you in great detail of breakfast, I'm not going to bore your listeners, but I just went through this where I was like, fuck this, fuck this. Like, go wreck your society. I'm out. I'm going to do my interviews and like, but I'm not getting involved in this process because it's hopelessly broken and like I can only be frustrated by it. I can have no material effect and I'm just out and I've got a million interests. I have a huge family who I am very engaged with and like I'm just going to tend to their

Starting point is 00:13:24 needs and I'm not going to be a participate in anything beyond my world. And then a really close and honest friend of mine wrote me this very long letter. the day Charlie was killed and I was like, actually, and it was very nice. It wasn't scolding, but it was actually corrective in that he said, you are self-indulgent, which I am. I am. Totally self-indulgent. I know that about myself, of course, and it's obvious. But you are being self-indulgent and you have a moral obligation to do everything you can with the ever-present knowledge. It mostly won't work. But it doesn't matter whether you live to see its fruits. you are obligated to try to help help in some way.

Starting point is 00:14:10 And I was like, and I, of course, I showed it to my wife. I was like, God is speaking through him. You need to pay attention. I was like, you're right. You're totally right. So that actually, that conversation, which was, well, it was September 11th, I happened to know, when I called him to thank him for this letter, that totally changed my attitude.

Starting point is 00:14:29 And I'm just so grateful to have friends who were willing, will take the time to be honest with me about my, faults and people I really try. I'm not, you know, take a lot of criticism, I don't give a shit, but like for the 30 people whose opinions I care about, some of them are really willing to take the time and to be honest with me. And I needed to hear that. And I've been in a good mood ever since, and we've had a lot of drama in my life and my family since September 11th. It's only been a little over two months, but it's like a different world. And since Charlie was murdered, But I've never stopped being cheerful and hopeful because I know that there's a mission way beyond me.

Starting point is 00:15:10 And I don't know what's outlines. I don't know everything about the mission. I have no secret knowledge. But I can feel very strongly that my job is to tell the truth to the extent that I can and that I'm able to see it, which is imperfectly. But I know it's outlined sometimes and I have an obligation to say what they are no matter what the cost to me. And that is such a liberating feeling. it's hard to i don't know man i just look at all the the the we were talking about this earlier too but you know let me you think that because of what you become and what you built

Starting point is 00:15:49 that you have an impact and um but do you we've called do any of us i mean And I hate to quote Conan O'Brien, but one of my favorite observations comes from him, in the end, every grave goes unvisited. I live directly across from, I see my parents' graves from my kitchen. And so I visit my parents' graves a lot and think about them and really love them, blessed to have them as parents. And I'll be very next to them. But I think a lot.

Starting point is 00:16:24 I'm like, in the end, like, this will be a subdivision or whatever. Who knows what it'll be, nuclear wasteland? I mean, we don't know the future. And we can be certain that we will be forgotten and that all of our efforts will be unrecognized by other people. But that doesn't mean that we don't have an obligation in the present to try our best, to do our best. And I think that everyone has different callings.

Starting point is 00:16:44 Of course, everyone has different callings. But I feel strongly that my calling is to tell the truth with the knowledge that most of the time it's fruitless or if it bears fruit, I won't see it. It's planting an oak tree. Like, you're not going to see it become an oak. but you planted anyway because that's your duty and I didn't serve in the military and I didn't grow up in a duty-oriented society I grew up in rich person world where you know but so this is something that I have come to believe more than I used to believe

Starting point is 00:17:19 but you do have a duty you are here for a reason all of us and we're all acting in concert either for good or for evil and I think the lines are really really clear And as I said at the outset, I think the battle is a spiritual one, which is not to say there aren't like material consequences or it's not flesh and blood people they are, but all of us are being acted on at all times by forces that we can't see. It's a fact. I know that. I've seen it a lot. And how do we know the difference? Well, it's hard to tell sometimes.

Starting point is 00:17:50 And I have been lured by evil a million times that it will happen again. But one of the ways we know is by the way people behave. cave. And good, God, is characterized by love and acceptance and concern and empathy, period. And his opponents are characterized by hate. And so when we allow ourselves to get lured into hating, we are serving the people we oppose. Evil becomes stronger with hate. And I have learned this from watching really carefully and been involved in a lot. lot of battles, rhetorical battles in my life. And I have noticed that the goal of people serving evil is to make you a hater. They call you what they want you to be. And as someone

Starting point is 00:18:43 who has been called many names over many years and been confused by it, because I'm very literal, like, I'm actually not a racist. Actually, I'm not a racist. And if I was, I would just admit it. I'm not. I said that like a thousand times. Nobody cares. They keep calling you. So why do they call you that because they think you are kind of obvious that I'm actually not and they know that no because they want you to become that that's what they want you to be you're a nazi and i'm like a nazi no very anti-nazzi actually why are they saying that about me why not just note the obvious about me you're well self-indulgent or overweight or whatever the things i really am why not criticize me on the basis of like my obvious faults reality that's what i do and you're trying

Starting point is 00:19:26 to needle someone you're like oh you're and it's true and that makes you know you call the fat girl why are they calling me something i'm not and i'm obviously not because they want me to become that now why would people who claim to hate nazis want you to become a nazi that doesn't make any sense because it's spiritual principle hate makes evil strong stronger. They want to destroy you by turning your heart dark. That is the truth. And they feed on that. It makes them strong when you hate them. This is not a political principle. This is a spiritual principle. And I have seen it in action so many times that I've become totally convicted of it. I mean, I've lived this. And so I have resolved, I don't care what people who disagree with me do to me.

Starting point is 00:20:19 I don't care. I'm not going to hate them. Partly because I despise them so much, I refuse to hate them. No. I'm half joking, but no, it's like I disagree so much that I'm not going to give you what you want, which is for me to make you the center of my world by hating you. I'm not going to do that. And I'm not going to give you the spiritual power that comes from hate because I see what happens.

Starting point is 00:20:47 I have seen it. I have literally been, the only thing I've done in my life is watch things. I've watched a lot of things in a lot of different places around the world. And I haven't learned that much, but a few things I've learned. And one is when evil convinces you to hate it, evil becomes stronger. And the only kryptonite, the only thing you can employ to make it less strong is love. And it's many cousins, amusement, cheerfulness, laughing in the face of evil, diminishes evil. So you're never going to get me to play that game.

Starting point is 00:21:24 Nazi, no, you're the Nazi. Fuck you! Never doing that. I'm never going to do that, both for my own sake and because that's the path to defeat. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. I mean, it does. It makes a lot of sense.

Starting point is 00:21:41 So I, it's been a very, uh, weird journey for me. Yeah, you think. Don't you love that, though? Like, would a teenage you have guessed where you'd be now? Five years ago. I want to be a podcast. Yeah. But, uh, you know, I don't, you know, I've, I've been.

Starting point is 00:22:11 Thankful. I'm also sad. And I've never been this close to government ever. I mean, I worked in government, but, you know, it was very, it was very compartmentalized. So, and very focused on, you know, certain aspects. So I didn't have time to, like, or access. Everybody thinks, oh, you got all this access. You don't have any fucking access. Of course not.

Starting point is 00:22:34 But after doing this and a lot of these interviews and, And, dude, it's just so fucking dark, man. It's, it's, I don't know. It makes me wonder, like, are, are we here for a bigger purpose or is our purpose just to, you know, you said lead by sacrifice, I think lead by example, just set the fucking good example, you know, and just be a good person and, what is it, attraction works a lot better than promotion and that's what my wife tells me but uh but there's a cost to that that's what i would say the main thing that i have learned having been around you know the same world that i'm

Starting point is 00:23:22 around now i've been around since i was a child and it slowly dawned to me how rotten it was and so the main pitfall for me is being shocked by everything i'm like i can't believe how bad this is. I can't believe how corrupt this institution is these people are. I can't believe how dark it is. I must say that a hundred times. I can't believe it. And then occasionally I'll hear myself and I'll be like, you become the I can't believe it guy? Really? Are you shocked again? Like how many times this is Lucy in the football? Like how often are you going to be shocked by what you already know by what you've stated out loud a thousand times? So if I keep being, if you keep doing the same thing to me and I keep refusing to believe you're going to do it and if I find

Starting point is 00:24:06 myself shocked every time when you do do it, who's the asshole? I don't know. I mean, I think when you say it, you don't know what I mean? That you, like, when you say, I can't believe. I think that, I think the reason that that happens is there's still a glimmer of hope in your mind that it actually is not as fucking bad as it appears to be. Of course it is. And then every time you go down the rabbit hole more and more and more. You dropped Adam bombs on civilians and celebrated it. Oh, we're so important we do that. Really? To incinerate a bunch of kids? Like, if you say it's important to, beat the imperial Japanese army or replace the government with a friendly government, of course,

Starting point is 00:24:42 of course. If you're celebrating the incineration of children, then you're evil. And all of us were, including me. So, like, it's just important to recognize that and just be like, wow, we made a huge mistake. But people who refuse to acknowledge the mistake and continue to behave like that was a virtue are serving evil. That's just what it is. Like, that's the whole project is. It's like, and they'll employ any lie to get you not to, you hate the United States. I hate the United States. I don't think I do. No, give my life for the country in a second.

Starting point is 00:25:14 I feel like we're actually in the process of doing that, giving over things that we love because we care about this land and its people because this is where we're from. You're not going to get me off the track, but you're also not going to get me to lie. So what happens if you decide I'm just going to tell the truth? You have to tell the whole truth about everything all the time. You don't. You're not required to do that. But I'm not going to lie. I'm just going to tell the truth.

Starting point is 00:25:39 We're definitely going to get killed if you keep doing that because whether it's physically or in some way, you are going to suffer. And that's the whole story. That's a story of Jesus. That's a story of his disciples. Almost every one of, maybe every one of whom was murdered in the end. Why? Because they were hurting people or stealing from the poor.

Starting point is 00:25:56 No, because they were telling the truth. So we already know that. So I don't know why I, every single time, you know, I get attacked or I see people unfairly attacked for doing the right thing and telling the truth. And every single time, I'm like, I can't, this is shocking. It's like, really? I guess I didn't really believe anything I said because there's nothing shocking about it. It's the most predictable. I remember going on Fox and writing the script and something, I can't even remember.

Starting point is 00:26:24 Could be anything. But I was like, it's kind of weird that all the people who lied. are getting presidential medals of freedom and consulting contracts at Black Rock and all the people who told the truth are headed to jail. We're punishing the honest. I remember being like totally out.

Starting point is 00:26:42 I mean, this was like 10 years ago, I said this. And yet every single time I've seen it in the subsequent decade, I've been every bit as shocked. And I just think, no, it's time to acknowledge what's totally real. Charlie Kirk got murdered. No one was more shocked than I.

Starting point is 00:26:59 I was. He and I had just talked about the possibility of me getting murdered. Oh, I'm not worried about that. I said, and that he gets murdered. And I was so shocked. And of course, upset because of him specifically dying, but shocked that someone could get killed who didn't do anything wrong. He just told the truth. And he was increasingly telling more of the truth, which is exactly why he was murdered, obviously. But I remember being shocked at that. I was like, no, no, no. And I talked to our staff about it and we had we've had some you know real drama in our lives totally shocked by it and similar you know people trying to kill you what would and I remember finally concluding and saying to them and they agreed it's like what did you think this

Starting point is 00:27:43 was that's what this is that's what our lives are that's what everyone's life is and and we've gotten to the point where you can't opt out you can't just say I'm going to my fishing camp with the Spaniels. I tried. There is no opting out. And anyway, and people can reach different conclusions about what their role is. And I think everyone has a different role. Not everyone has the same role at all. Not everyone has the same destiny or mission. But we're all going to have to face that choice because it's not up to us. That's the nature of life. So I'm never, I don't care what happens, I am resolving, I'm not going to be shocked by it. And the extent to which you're shocked is the extent to which you didn't really believe what you were saying before. And now,

Starting point is 00:28:34 finally, after all these years at 56, I really believe that what we're seeing is what we always thought we would see. Does that make sense? It does. It does make sense. You can't sure. You've been in it for a lot longer. You've been in it for a long time. You've been close. Yeah, but I didn't see it. I mean, and I've been so attacked. Like, how could you have not known that this was, this person was doing this? Or my own family even, especially. You're lying. It's like, I don't know what to tell you. The human mind is amazing. The number of things. I mean, I've smoked a lot of cigarettes and thought to myself, this is bad for you. That's bullshit. It's like, whatever, you know. And like, we have the capacity for self-deception that really is without parallel. Like, it's incredible what we can ignore. And I've done my share for sure. But I'm not being defensive about it. I think that's how people are. It's certainly how I am. I'm very good at lying to myself. But especially about people I like and about myself and, you know, we're just good at

Starting point is 00:29:40 deceiving ourselves. But once I'd be, it's only been in the last 10 years. I was like, wow, I can't believe that all this stuff was, I can't believe it. All this stuff is going on. And then I'm transitioning into the next phase, which is, it's okay. We were promised this. We're getting it. I'm so grateful, really, to be living in a time where I think there's less self-deception. I think people are being forced to acknowledge, not hysterical, but being forced to think about, you know, like, why am I here?

Starting point is 00:30:08 And what is this? And what do I care about? What do I actually believe as distinct from what do I profess? They're not the same. And I think there's, like, amazing clarity. And there's, of course, a great sorting going on, which you and I have talked about off camera for sure, maybe on camera, but the beauty of, you know, you lose so many friends. I've lost, you know, most of my friends. But the ones I've kept are real friends and they're just

Starting point is 00:30:33 people I respect immensely. And then I've made all these new relationships. Like, I pride myself in having no new friendships, like I've no new friendships, you know. I married my high school girlfriend. Like, I'm very much old school that way, the most. But it's also true than the past five or ten years I've met all these people I trust, care about, listen to. whose opinions I really listen to and that affect me. I allow their opinions to affect me, which is the sign of real friendship. You know, I let you critique me and I'll hear it.

Starting point is 00:31:07 And I have a bunch of people I feel that way about. How great is that? So I lost a lot of, you know, acquaintanceships and I gained some real friendships. How's that not a massive wind? It is a massive wind. That's awesome. Do you feel that?

Starting point is 00:31:24 No. You will. I think you will. Your problem is you're, this is so fast. I'm extremely guarded. I've been fucked over a lot and lied to a lot and it's really, really, really fucking hard to gain my trust. I get it. I get it. But the trajectory of your life has been so radical and abrupt, like go from, you know, the height of one world, you know, like military, you got to the height of the height, you know, like military, you got to the height. Obviously, the most famous part of the military, succeed in that.

Starting point is 00:31:57 And then you completely change careers. Like, it couldn't be more different from what you did before. And then out of nowhere, you become really successful in that. So that's like, that's a big, very abrupt change. And no matter how resilient you are, there are going to be some bumps on that road because that's just, it's just too different, right? Like, if I became like a super successful business guy. or figure skater tomorrow. That would kind of be like, you're like, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:32:30 Like, all of a sudden, I'm competing in the Olympics for figure skating, and I win the gold medal. Like, that would be very hard for me. Oh, shit. I would actually love to see that. We might have to create an AI video of you figure skating. In the comedy division, but yeah. But that is kind of like your life.

Starting point is 00:32:50 Well, you can't see it clearly because you're living it, but from the outside, it's obvious. What? You actually succeeded in this new business? What are the odds of that? I don't know. Slim to none. And more closer to none, I would say. Yeah. A lot of dark stuff going on in the world right now. And it's to the point where I don't even believe my own eyes anymore because I cannot verify what people are saying about all the political violence, the division.

Starting point is 00:33:20 I partner with this production company called Ironclad, and we're doing an eight-part audio series on SIOPs, on why foreign countries, governments, maybe even our own government, would conduct a SIOP on its own people. And I just think that this series is going to be extremely important because it's going to open the eyes of people on why these things happen.

Starting point is 00:33:45 You can head over to sciopshow.com, order it today. I think you're going to get a lot out of this. Who's pulling the strings? Who's pulling them? We track sleep, fine-tune our macros, and try to chase every biohack. But real performance starts deep,

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Starting point is 00:35:12 These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition. These statements and information are not a substitute for or alternative to seeking care from your health care providers. You know what really bothers me is just before I dug into this, it's like there's some things that are fucked up. We're going to expose it. We're going to make some changes. And then the deeper you get in and the more you look around, everything's fucked up. It's like

Starting point is 00:35:45 it's like it's like what we were talking about on your show everything is a lie and I mean I mean we manufacture fake

Starting point is 00:35:55 fucking heroes in the military that even I believed went through what they said went through you know what I mean and only to find out

Starting point is 00:36:03 like 20 fucking years later like holy shit this entire fucking story is a lie this is a fucking lie this is a fucking lie And that motherfucker is running around in a, I mean, I can't even imagine the prison that people live in, living a lot, like, everything that you're known for is a fucking lie.

Starting point is 00:36:25 Everything that people come up to you for and praise you about is a fucking lie. Your awards are lies. Everything is a fucking lie. You are a, you are a, you, and this is a lot. There's a lot of these people walking around and I just know a handful of them. And then you look at the politics and you look, I mean, look at the, look at this shit of Epstein files. It's a hoax. It's a hoax. It's a, it's a national security threat. They're fake. This is like, what the fuck, man? The American people are fucking screaming at you, screaming that they want this shit released.

Starting point is 00:37:04 Congress, I don't even know that. What is it like? I can't remember. How many people are in Congress? 400 and... 535 Senate plus House. $435 in the house. Everybody except one person. Yep. I don't know. Who is the one person? Some guy.

Starting point is 00:37:18 Yeah. But. And so, like, you know, back to earlier, like, we want to make an impact. We want to tell the truth. We want to, you know, do these. And we had a big influence in the last election. It was, was, seemed like a great thing. Did it matter?

Starting point is 00:37:39 At a time. At the time. time it felt great did it was that a good thing you know you can't know we got a guy who's oh america first all this other fucking bullshit and and everybody everybody is screaming release these fucking files we want to know what is going on we want to know what we find out if they were all released anything we didn't know i have honestly i have no idea is at the end of the fucking country like is it really is it really that's C.S. Lewis has this, well, I have tons of opinions on the subject. I don't have, you know, concrete proof. Of course, I think I know, but C.S. Lewis has this, I think it was C.S. Lewis has this essay in which he says, people debate, you know, was Jesus really God or whatever? If Jesus came back to Earth tomorrow and held a press conference, like a week later, people would be talking about something else. It's like,

Starting point is 00:38:40 We actually know what's true. We know what's true. And the way that dogs know what's true, you can't reason with the dog. The dog can smell it. And he sticks with his opinion because he has no other input. If you hate a dog, you can't talk your way out of it. The dog knows you hate the dog because dogs have unerring instincts. And so do we.

Starting point is 00:38:59 And so, of course, we know exactly what the Epstein story is about. It's about the deep corruption of global leadership, of course. And you can say it's about Israel. It's about the CIA. Well, it's about, is there a distinction, really? Not just between Israel and, you know, Mossad and CIA, but about the British government or really kind of any government or any, you know, Bill Gates or Leon Black. It's all kind of varieties of the same thing. It's corrupt leadership that is acting on its own behalf against the interests of the people they lead.

Starting point is 00:39:30 It's the oldest story there is. It's the Pharisees. And if we're honest, we already know that. So, I mean, I, of course. completely for disclosure of everything, but I don't lie to myself and say that disclosure would change human nature because it won't, and people have an opportunity to exploit others generally will, and the rest of us need to fight daily against that, not because we're going to win in the short term, but because it is our duty and to serve what's good

Starting point is 00:40:01 and true, period, even if we're killed doing it. So I don't know. I mean, I won't stop pushing for disclosure. I really believe that. Trust is built on honesty. It's not built on wise. Ever. You know, you say, you know, does it change? I think, I can't remember your exact verbiage, which, you know, we were talking about, you know, when this gets exposed, does it change anything? No, this is the, this is the nature of man. This is what happens. But where do you know the answer? Men need to be reset. And men have not been fucking reset, not in this country for a long, long time. Well, that's coming, whether we want it or not. We don't want it, but it's coming. And all this shit about women don't need men. You've obviously seen chaos in a society,

Starting point is 00:40:44 right? The actual chaos, people just like shoot into buildings and no one arrest them. You spent your life around that stuff. Those societies don't ask questions like, what are men for? Right. And we're, of course, moving closer to that. And all of this, all of our silliest manifestations, you know, the trans craziness or feminism or other just revolts against are only possible because we live in this nerve world of affluence, but as that starts to change, and it is changing, then we, the upside of that, we're going to get poorer and society will become more dangerous, but will also be a little more rooted in reality in the same way that rich people are insufferable, not all, but a lot of rich people are insufferable because they're detached

Starting point is 00:41:28 from reality, from nature, from God, from like the things that are real and they convince themselves because they can fly from point to point without going through TSA that they have infinite power and they don't. And that's why they're so hard to have dinner with. But a normal society doesn't have these problems. It has all kinds of other problems, but doesn't have the American problems of like, you know, I'll just, you know, I'm a 40-year-old unmarried Citibank executive. I'll just get a surrogate. It's like, okay. For the suicide rate. There's not a lot of suicide in. you know impoverished countries because like the mission is really clear you know there's not a lot

Starting point is 00:42:09 of crisis of meaning in Burundi you know what I mean it's a fight for the day yeah it's a fight for the day well it's a trade-off I mean I would much rather live in a door dash society because I like comfort and ease and everything but it is a trade off and you trade comfort for meaning that's just kind of what we've done and we shouldn't be surprised again we shouldn't be surprised by it What do you think happens, honestly, if this, one, do you think this is actually going to, is this going to come out? Or is this all been shredded? I mean, Mark, I don't. I don't, of course.

Starting point is 00:42:45 I mean, we don't have the JFK files. And so then you ask, like, why don't we? Who is being protected here? There are no living stakeholders in that story. There's no living participant in that murder conspiracy. it was a conspiracy, we know that. So who were the participants in that conspiracy? Well, no one's still alive. So who could we possibly be protecting by not releasing all those files? And that's a pretty short list of suspects. So I think we kind of know what that is, at least in part, I don't know the

Starting point is 00:43:19 details. I know some. But that's, I think it's pretty obvious. Same with Epstein. It's pretty clear who some of the players were. They were governments. The U.S. government involved, British government involved, Israeli government involved at various levels. The guy lived a fairly long life. He died in his mid-60s. He was pretty active in government work, arms trading, for example. From a young age, from his late 20s, I think, when he left Bear Stearns, he got into that business with Robert Maxwell. You don't trade arms by yourself. You do it on behalf of governments. And with the assistance of governments, obviously you've been around this, you know. So from that age, from, say, 30 to, what, 65-ish when he died?

Starting point is 00:44:04 So 35 years, he's intersecting with governments. And it's not just the Israelis. I mean, the Israelis were definitely involved. Ehud Barak is living at his house. Okay? And we have a lot of his emails that prove that. And I'm not defending the Israeli government, which is hard to defend, but I'm just trying to tell the truth, which is it's not just the Israelis.

Starting point is 00:44:25 Okay. It's us. It's the British, the French. It's the usual players. the intel services that matter in the West and probably others. So that's who's being protected, of course, and then all kinds of other pawns. And so I think one of the main takeaways from that story, about which I know a lot, but not everything, is that the leaders that we believe are leaders,

Starting point is 00:44:50 and people are starting to get this, like our elected officials, oh, they have so much power, or senator, so-and-so, president, what's his name? You know, like these are the people running our society or not the people running our society. Of course, they themselves are subject to enormous pressures from, you know, other people and coalitions of people and forces and interests. And like, that's what they're – and the closer you get to them, the more time you spend with the people who are in charge, the more you realize they're not really in charge or they're only semi-in-charge.

Starting point is 00:45:20 How does it happen? I am very – I mean, you know, how does it happen? Do they, we talked about this a little bit of breakfast. I don't think everything is, is transactional as it may seem. Oh, no. I think that this is from my own experience. And I don't believe I've fallen into any yet, but I think I've, I have come close. I think they set traps.

Starting point is 00:45:53 and that doesn't mean there's a hooker in the fucking hotel room that you walk into. Oh, there is sometimes. Oh, you know what I mean? There is sometimes. For somebody that fucking week. You'd have to be great, by the way.

Starting point is 00:46:07 But, and I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that are that fucking stupid. Or the porn sites. I'm going to look up tranny porn on you porn. Well, that's not controlled by a foreign intel service. Oh, it is. It is. That actually is true.

Starting point is 00:46:20 So, yeah, I mean, there are a million ways that your weakness is expose you to influence for sure i think they they can be very giving and it uh in in in i think they could be very giving and it appears that you're being let into a group and then oh i'm watching that right now with someone yes and then you're fucking done but not even realizing it until you're in oh yes and uh i think i've come close and i always like if i even get a fucking inkling of that happening i'm like no done not going not not getting on the jet stay true to that going there not going there not going it like

Starting point is 00:47:04 on my own fucking person and i don't what are you going to get to get me money i've got that how about it's not all it's cracked up to me you don't even know what's happening i mean how many plots have i been involved in unwittingly i don't even know the answer but a lot a lot a lot I can think of a bunch of them where you have someone, like, who you work for, being like, you know, we should really take a look at this. This guy's bad. Let's, you know, okay. You know, when I was young living in Washington, I was used all the time and had no idea.

Starting point is 00:47:41 I literally had no, it never even occurred to me. And a lot of my resentment as a middle-aged man comes from that. And I think a lot about it. And I'm not going to blame the people who did it. because that's who they are, but it definitely participated in a lot of stuff without my knowledge that was much more strategic than I ever guessed. You're sitting in a meeting, you know, we should really do this. Okay, I'll do it.

Starting point is 00:48:07 And you wind up doing it and then ultimately became inconsistent with my instincts and my conscience. And I was like, ah, this is bad. I'm not quite sure how. But then you look back and you're like, oh, my gosh. And now, of course, my whole life is, you know, I don't understand anything, really. But you see glimpses of a lot of different things every single day. Well, you should go here and talk to so-and-so and like, what is this exactly? And if you're busy, you don't ask yourself enough.

Starting point is 00:48:33 What is this? I mean, I think that happens to me every single day because my text is public. So everyone has my text. Everybody has my text. I have the same number for 30 years. I'm not changing it. I just refuse. I'm not afraid of people and I'm not going to change my number.

Starting point is 00:48:47 And so I get hundreds and hundreds of texts every day. Some people I know. Most of people I do know. And, you know, some of them are totally straightforward and people I trust and a lot of them aren't. And sometimes I don't care what plot you're hatching. I want to do this thing because I have my own agenda, which is to shed light on something that isn't well known enough. This is my perspective. And I'm going to do it.

Starting point is 00:49:09 I don't care. Whether it fits into your plans or not, I'm doing it. I've done a lot of interviews, like a lot of interviews and traveled to a lot of countries with that in mind. But, yeah, there are tons of people trying to suborn you and make you part of that. agenda. And mostly it's not blackmail. I've never been blackmailed in my life. No one's ever suggested that. I'm not, you know, I'm not banging the hooker in my room. Sorry, I don't drink. I mean, it's like kind of hard to blackmail me. I like to think it's impossible. Maybe they could find a way. But that's not how it happens for most people. And but then there's another

Starting point is 00:49:43 element, which I'm thinking a lot about, which I don't really understand, but I know is real, where people fall under a kind of spell. Mm-hmm. And people you know to be rational, Mike Huckabee is one of them. We're talking about this at breakfast because I'm obsessed with it because I know Mike Huckabee so well. I was at the newspaper in Arkansas over 30 years ago and I knew him then. I went up at Fox News with him decades later. I worked with him. I knew him then.

Starting point is 00:50:08 I always like Mike Huckabee. I like him now. Mike Huckabee is not a bad person. He's very money oriented, which is a weakness for anybody. Of course. So there's that. but that's not unusual. He's not a bad person at all. Mike Huckabee's a nice man. But Mike Huckabee has participated in things that are just objectively evil, in my opinion. And how did that happen? Because

Starting point is 00:50:32 Mike Huckabee woke up and decided he wanted to do something evil? No, I know Mike Huckabee. He doesn't feel that way at all. He's a decent man. I watch Huckabee, and because I do know him, I marvel at it. He has fallen under some sort of spell. I do think it's supernatural. I know a number of people. I'm calling him out by name because he's been involved in something recently that's, like, so shocking to me that I can't even believe he participated in something like that. You said we wouldn't be shocked anymore. Exactly. Exactly. We wouldn't be shocked anymore.

Starting point is 00:51:06 So everything that I have learned comes from, like, sitting in my sauna trying to figure out obvious things. Complex things are very easy to understand. Simple things right in front of your face are the great mysteries. And when you know people and you have a fairly good sense of their character and they're, you know, what they're, the kind of things they'd be willing to do, what their goals are, I think my Cuckabee's goal is to spread the gospel of Jesus. And I think that about him. I do. I think a lot of my Cuckabee, how could a man like that wind up doing the things that he's been doing? Not creepy personal things, nothing, nothing like that, but like promoting things that are like obviously.

Starting point is 00:51:48 evil, like the murder of kids. Like, how could you do that? Well, he couldn't do that. He would never do that. He's doing it because he is under some kind of spell. He has no idea he's doing it. And I just explained a time in my life where I was under a kind of spell and never even occurred to me. I worked for Bill Crystal at the time that Bill Crystal, my editor, my boss, who gave me this job as hilarious in meetings that he could really be working tireless on an agenda that was like totally anti-Christian, how could that ever be? That what Bill Crystal really hates is Christianity that never occurred to me. And he wanted to stamp out nationalism and, you know, public displays of loyalty to Jesus.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Like, he hated that. I did not get that at all. It never occurred, never entered my brain one time. So I was under risk by myself. So I'm not even judging. I'm just saying people fall into this way of thinking that is so clear to me influenced by supernatural forces where they are blinded. And the entire Bible from beginning to end is the story of people who can't see things right in front of them. They just can't.

Starting point is 00:53:05 It's happening right there. So all this evidence is overwhelming. They can touch it, smell it, feel it, but they cannot acknowledge its reality. And so anyway, that's part of it. People are engaged in these projects that are just, like, totally anti-human, and they think they're on the right side. They really believe it. So I would just say, like, the analysis that I read on the Internet, I try to not read the Internet, but, you know, you read it and you're like, people of good faith are like, well, that person's clearly getting a payoff or, you know, they've got videotape of him banging a dog or whatever they come up with these empty, you know what I mean? They're compromised.

Starting point is 00:53:47 And I think because I know so many of the people they're talking about, I'm like, yeah, in some, in some Lindsey Graham, like, okay, I believe that. Like, what is that? But there are a million other people who I'm like, I don't think there's videotape at them doing anything wrong. I don't think they're taking money for this. I think they really believe they're doing the right thing. And that's more upsetting to me because it's more subtle and it's more profound than just blackmail. Does that make sense? It does make sense.

Starting point is 00:54:16 And looking back on your life, I mean, it's hard for any of us to look back on our lives without feeling very complicated feelings. But do you detect any moments where like you were involved in something and you never even paused to ask like, what is this? Why am I participating in this? Never even dawned on you. I mean, I just, I think you just have to. You just have to, I mean, when I started doing this, I just, there's all kinds of, I've got all kinds of incriminating shit out there. I believe it.

Starting point is 00:54:55 Tons of it. You know, but I do, and I'm aware of it. And I know it was fucked up at what I did. Yeah. But, you know, I'm not. But did you know it at the time? Reconciliation. Yeah, I knew it was fucked up at the time.

Starting point is 00:55:08 Not all of it, but yeah, the majority of it, like, I mean, it didn't. I didn't fall into any honey pots. I didn't need a honey pot. That's the point. That's great to do it. That's too obvious. You're never going to get you with the Russian hooker because everyone's on guard against the Russian hooker.

Starting point is 00:55:27 They didn't need to do anything to get me to fall into anything because I was already doing it all. And there's this thing, you know, called reconciliation, confession, whatever you want to call it. You know, you come clean and you fucking own it, you know. Jocco calls us. an extreme ownership, right? But I mean, it's just, it's taking ownership of your fuck-ups and like, you cannot be afraid of that. And there's, I don't, I tend to think that people are very forgiving.

Starting point is 00:55:53 And so I don't know, you know, when we talk about shit like the Epstein and all of this stuff, right? Like, when we talk about all of these things and all of the, the blackmail and stuff, it's like, just come clean, man. Just. I've made this argument ahead of the times. Everyone wants to believe in our. institutions. I certainly feel that way as disappointed and angry as I am about the failure of

Starting point is 00:56:18 every institution. I really want to believe in the institutions. You know, I really, really do. I mean that. And all it takes to restore a relationship with a person or an institution is honesty and repentance. That's it. It's like not hard. People are so forgiving. I totally agree with that. All of us want to forgive. There's nothing better than the prodigal son. Like he's gone. Fuck that guy. He took all the money and left. He's, you know, in warehouses in Babylon and then, but now he's here. It's all forgiven. We're so excited for you. We're throwing a huge party for you. All of us feel that way. And so I don't think it's hard or it's hard, but it's not complicated and it's so worth it to say I was completely wrong. I'll be wrong again. I'm going to try my best. Maybe sometimes

Starting point is 00:57:02 I won't try my best, but just be honest. I think that's liberation. That's the only liberation, It's freeing. I mean... Yeah, what... I mean, what other liberation is there? I just... Does voting matter anymore? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:57:30 This, I'm just... I don't know whether voting matters. So much. Like, looking back, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I mean, we didn't really have much of a fucking option here, but, I mean, we so we thought. But he's, nothing I voted for happened. What about you? Are you happy with anything?

Starting point is 00:57:59 Oh, I'm happy with so much. It's going on. Of course not. No, it's just a nightmare of deprivity and corruption in general in the world. but what did you expect? I am so struck by, you know, I'm not a TV watch, but there's the only really famous Seinfeld episode is Opposite Day. You're probably in the jungle or doing something bad somewhere.

Starting point is 00:58:22 You miss this, but there's this famous episode of the sitcom Seinfeld where one of the characters decides to do everything the opposite that day and gets like results he didn't expect. It works. And I just feel like that is the lesson of everything. That's the lesson of life. That's the beatitudes. The first will be last. The meek shall inherit the earth. What's that? It's the opposite of what you think. Jesus says, I'm going to build my church on this rock, Peter, who's just betrayed him three times to a girl. Rock? That's like

Starting point is 00:58:55 jello. It's the opposite. If you're going to build a church, you build it on the strongest man. He builds it on the weakest man. And everything in our life points to the same truth. It's the opposite of what you expect every freaking time. And so, again, back to the same theme. No, I'm not shocked. But it really makes me happy to know the only thing that matters is the words you speak and that they're true.

Starting point is 00:59:25 That's the only thing that changes history ever. You think about the number of wars, some of which you've participated in indirectly over the past 25 years. How many have, like, made things better? or changed anything. I'm really doing the math of zero. How many wars actually do it's the biggest war in human history?

Starting point is 00:59:41 1914 to 1918. It's at the stage for the even bigger war in history. So it's like, but what does make things better telling the truth? In the end, when everything is gone, when your civilization has been leveled, an archaeologist is trying to piece together, you know, what it was all about, the only things that remain are the words that you spoke. And they're the things that change people. And this is like an ancient concept.

Starting point is 01:00:11 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Ancient cultures understood that an idea articulated emerges from the mouth of the speaker and becomes a separate living thing and lives there forever. And anyone who's argued with his wife knows that that's true. The second you say something harsh,

Starting point is 01:00:31 especially if it's true, it can't be taken taken back and it hangs there in the kitchen over you, overshadowing everything. So, and, or this last argument I'll make, the way to, the way that I understand the world is in reverse, almost like an x-ray. So I look at the people who I don't respect, who I believe have totalitarian impulses, and I try to assess what's true by what their priorities are. So your enemies are the people who want to control you and crush you and destroy your family in your nation, obviously. What do they want above all?

Starting point is 01:01:07 They want to control what you say. They want to control what you say. What's the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights, the freedom of speech. What you say matters more than anything. Your words articulated out loud are living things, and they're more powerful than you are, and they live beyond you. Your grave will go and visit it. Your words will continue.

Starting point is 01:01:32 to reverberate through the universe. I really believe that. I know that that's true. And that's the whole story of history. There are no living ancient Hebrews. We know a lot about what they thought because they wrote it down. Their words have lived for 3,000 years. So what we say is the most important thing about us. And if we can force ourselves to tell the truth, we will change things and by things I mean people and their attitudes, their beliefs, their hearts. And that's all we can do. That's all we can do. And I would say if we make a little extra money aside, we should build a fishing camp

Starting point is 01:02:13 in the woods because I think that's really important. But it's not as important as, I mean, like, yeah, I do think that. I have all kinds of sentimental attachments. I don't really care about things that much, but I care about nature. So, like, that is important. But it's not important in an ultimate sense. My fishing camp will be a strip mall someday, you know, or it'll be a lunar landscape someday, but your words will outlive you. I love that.

Starting point is 01:02:43 I just think that's true, and no one has convinced me of that. I've been convinced of that by watching, and really I've been convinced of it by watching what the opponents of people and of civilization really care about. And the number one thing they care about is getting you to shut up. As long as you'll shut up, you can have whatever you want. And that really is the tradeoff that our leaders make. It's not by doing things. It's by not saying certain things. And the ones who refuse to be told what to say are destroyed or face the threat of destruction.

Starting point is 01:03:20 And you know exactly who they are. Now, what have they done exactly? Does anyone care what the two or three truth tellers in our political system? have done, what they voted for, what they're, I don't even know is no one cares. All they care about is what they say out loud. And the reason they care is because that's the most important thing. They know what's important. We don't.

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Starting point is 01:06:48 And I feel like if you know what your mission is and you know what the stakes are and you're willing to accept them, And I should just say, I'm in such an unusual position because all my kids are grown and they're all thriving and I don't have any investors or debt. No one can control me. I'm kind of happy with less. I'm not a money. I've never been a money person. I'm not bragging, but I've never have been.

Starting point is 01:07:07 Ask anyone who knows me. And so they're really, the cost to me is so much lower than to a man with like four kids in private school. You're 35 and your wife's like, where you're barely making it. You are subject to, and I have been earlier in my life, subject to all. all kinds of control mechanisms. You don't even perceive, but you're so afraid of losing what you have, and you're really afraid of it because you have children at home.

Starting point is 01:07:33 And having small children at home who are totally dependent on you, who you love more than your own life, that is a really, really scary time for every man. And I know that you're living it now. And I've lived it. My oldest is 31 years old next week. I've lived it for 31 years, I know. but you get to a point where it's not such an imminent threat

Starting point is 01:07:55 because your children have their own lives and if you're blessed as I've been, they're doing great. You love them and you want to see your grandchildren and there's so many things you want, but you don't need any of it. And your responsibility is gone. I'm not responsible for educating someone

Starting point is 01:08:10 and telling him the facts of life at dinner, you know what I mean? It's like, that's all, I'm done. So I'm just in this incredibly privileged position where the stakes are just a lot lower for me so I can see with greater clarity what am I doing for the back nine and I just have such a simple

Starting point is 01:08:29 simple understanding of that just tell the truth don't be moved from the truth you don't have to tell the whole truth you don't have to say everything and I know a lot of shit or I think I know a lot of shit because that's my job

Starting point is 01:08:39 and a lot of it I'm not sure it's true or I don't know don't say everything you know you don't have to you don't have to tell people you're fat. You don't have that, okay, it's probably true. You don't have to say that.

Starting point is 01:08:53 You're no obligation to say that. Your only obligation, don't ever lie. Don't allow people to make you lie. Resolve, I'll die first. I'm just telling you, die for it's not going to do that. And I think that's your duty. Yeah, I don't know. Throughout this journey, in kids, especially kids, man.

Starting point is 01:09:17 It's made me. really try to start honing in on things that I can actually make an impact in. You know, and like, like we were talking about, there is, there are things and that you can make an impact in. And we have little nuggets here and there. But, you know, I don't think fucking politics is for me. And I don't think. It's not for me either. It's not for me.

Starting point is 01:09:43 I don't know what I mean. I don't even understand it. And, I mean, you were. fighting wars. I was covering the Congress and the White House and a million elections all around the country. I've been to every state, you know, every, I know all the politicians personally. I still don't even understand the process and I'm not interested in it. I really am not. Some consultant called me yesterday to get me to interview someone and he's like, oh, this is Congressional District 13. I don't even know what you're talking about. I just have

Starting point is 01:10:11 a little interest in it, you know. It's not interesting. And people who are really, really interested in it are damaged, I think. In general, I don't want to generalize, but you know, overall, not a group I want to have dinner with. What are you passionate about now? I mean, I'm looking for things that I can make an impact in. What is it? Like, what

Starting point is 01:10:31 issues? I mean, I'm super passionate about my family. My family's so big that it's like it's, it's literally I could spend all day, every day, involved in family stuff. There's just so many people And, you know, I'm the oldest male.

Starting point is 01:10:48 And so it's just, you know, really involved, really very close, super close, cohesive family. Very, everyone's, everyone's best friend. It's just so interesting. And you can just, like, get involved in trying to help in marginal ways or whatever. Or just talk to people. So I'm very interested in that. I'm interested in more hobbies than any person's ever had way too many. My son's like, you should take a bow hunting.

Starting point is 01:11:11 Yeah, I don't think so. Like, I need more obsessions. I don't think so. too many rabbit holes already in my life but what am I interested in my job and I mean what when you're talking about telling truth when you're talking about

Starting point is 01:11:23 and the way I take that as exposing you know shining the light in the darkness I'm interested in the the elimination of white people what do you mean by that I mean white people have been targeted for disappearance

Starting point is 01:11:40 and no one wants to say that because they've been bullied into not noticing or talking about it because you're like a white supremacist. Well, I'm not a white supremacist. I don't think whites are inherently superior to any other group. I don't judge how I feel about someone by his race. I never have. And I'm never going to.

Starting point is 01:11:58 It's against my religion and it's against my instinct. I believe in what people are like. But I travel a lot around the world and I'm not an expert on the world, but I, you know, I know more about it than people who don't travel a lot and I'm leaving this week again. And one thing that I have noticed because it's impossible not to notice is that majority white countries are becoming non-majority white. And that's a result of policies that are deliberate, that are not popular with the populations of those countries, and that people are discouraged from noticing in it. In some places, they're arrested, like in Great Britain, where I'm going on Friday. So it's like, what is that? And it's not happening in one or two, but in every single one.

Starting point is 01:12:42 And what's so interesting is because no one's been allowed to talk about it, the only people who talk about it are like crazy race theorists or, you know, prison inmates who were like, you know, whatever caught up in being white or something. By the way, you didn't choose to be white, okay? It's nothing you did. You didn't choose to have your eye color or your height. None of these things you can brag about because you didn't do them. They're an accident of your birth. So I've never agreed with any of that crap. But because normal people have been bullied into not noticing, the only people ever say anything about it are people who are like obsessed with it.

Starting point is 01:13:22 But it is an incredible thing that every white country on the planet except Russia, the one everyone hates, is on the road in very short order to become completely different from what it was 50 years ago. in its population demographically different. Is that an accident? Well, of course, it's not an accident. It's the result of a bunch of different, it's a multi-pronged strategy, clearly, to make the populations of those countries hate themselves for how they were born and accept these changes. It's been systematic.

Starting point is 01:14:03 What is that? I'm not, as I said, I'm not a white, by the way, I would just admit it at this point. Why do I care? I'm a white supremacist. Okay. I'm actually not. disagree with that. Don't think that you should be obsessed with people's appearance, A, or the accident of their birth or their genetics. I just am opposed to all of that. Again, for the

Starting point is 01:14:24 eighth time, Paul, the chief prosecutor, murderer of Christians, became the most important Christian once he met Jesus. So if you need more examples, I don't know what they could be, that people can totally change. There's nothing to know how you're born. It's what you become. And that's my, that's my deepest belief. So if I sound defensive, it's because we have all been trained to ignore this amazing thing that's never happened before in history where one group of people is being destroyed. And of course, have internalized that and are now enthusiastically participating in their own destruction and the death of an entire group of people.

Starting point is 01:15:06 And it really is, like if you go to Great Britain, it's the whites. I can't wait to kill themselves. It's in Canada. Same thing. They have the Maids Program, which is state-sponsored killing of its own citizens. Physician, assisted, suicide.

Starting point is 01:15:22 I know it's the state encouraging people to kill themselves. And it's one of the leading causes of death in Canada is this Maids program. Is this the machines that these... It could be machines. It's, you know, the state is licensed

Starting point is 01:15:34 to kill its citizens. The citizens just goes in and said, I want to be killed and they kill you. And basically for any reason, and mental health problems, financial problems. A lot of poor people are just like, I feel like I'm a burden to the country. I want to go die and the state will kill you.

Starting point is 01:15:47 It's one of the leading causes of death in Canada. So the numbers came out yesterday. Well, who's doing this? So Canada is about 65% white, something like that, has completely changed. Heavily, heavily South Asian and Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani. And lots of other peoples, you know,

Starting point is 01:16:04 it's massive immigration, massive, massive immigration into Canada. But who's being killed by the state in Canada? It's like 97% legacy whites, literally. And what the hell is that? And of course, these are people who have been told and now believe that, like, they're a burden to society. It's selfish to have children.

Starting point is 01:16:26 They've been totally brainwashed into mass suicide. And, of course, none of this is affecting my family. We have the opposite views. We're not proud to be white. We're not white because we chose to be white. We just happen to be born white. So there's nothing to be proud of. It's just a fact, on the other hand.

Starting point is 01:16:44 Targeting people on the basis of their race for destruction is the reason we say we hate the Nazis. And yet that's absolutely happening globally in every white country. Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, the United States and Canada. That's an accident? It's not an accident at all. And no one will say anything about it. And why wouldn't you say something? Like, what is that?

Starting point is 01:17:14 If that, by the way, if that were happening in India, like, we got too many Indians here. A billion Indians, that's too many Indians. We need more Africans here. So anyone Indian, like, here's that we can kill you because you're a burden. We just not have kids or take some SSRIs and just benzos and we just zone out until you die or whatever. But, like, you're bad. I would be like, that's the sickest thing I've ever seen. Like, why do we hate Indians?

Starting point is 01:17:41 I kind of like Indians or whatever. You would just be like, why would we want to do that to them? What did they do wrong? You know what I mean? I would just think that. And that's happening to whites globally at such a speed and no one is saying anything about it that I've decided because I just want to tell the truth about what I notice that I'm going to say something about it.

Starting point is 01:18:05 I think it's totally wrong. I think it's totally evil. Again, it's exactly what we said we hated about the Nazis, and we're participating in it. And I'm going to keep saying that no matter what they say. And they'll be like, oh, you're a white supremacist. I'm not. And I have a lot of theories about what this is and why. What is it?

Starting point is 01:18:27 Why would they do it? Who is they? Every global is the United Nations, the United States government, State Department, all of our politicians. The motive. Joe Biden's standing up and being like, the main problem in America is white racism from white men. Said that on tape many times. And I can't wait until this is a non-white majority country.

Starting point is 01:18:45 What? Why would you, okay, you could argue about whether it's better or worse as non-white. You know, okay, you could argue like the effects of it. But why would you want that? Why would you look around the country and say there are too many white people? And that's the official position of every institution in the United States. All of our schools, we give preference to non-whites, non-white males. Every single school, every single big business.

Starting point is 01:19:05 every single federal contract. Institutionally, we are opposed to whites and white men. And we're so marinating in it that no one stops and says, wait, what the hell is that? Again, that's why we hated the Nazis because they did shit like that. That's why we say segregation was wrong, which it was. That's why we hate Bull Connor. That's why we venerate Martin Luther King,

Starting point is 01:19:26 because that's wrong. That way of thinking is wrong. And by the way, it doesn't matter what group is being targeted. It is wrong in an absolute sense. it's a universal principle. It's always wrong. Whether you're Pakistani or Malaysian or Indian or from Myanmar or from Minnesota, it's always wrong to hurt people or help others to elevate some and suppress others on the basis of their race. I thought that was the basis of our common culture. And they told me it was. They put a monument on the mall to that, which I totally believe

Starting point is 01:20:00 in, judge a man by the content of his character, not the color of his skin. I grew up. with that? I believe it. I believe it now. And we're doing exactly the opposite. And it's so totally pervasive, all pervasive. And nothing has been done to reverse it at all. We're mad about anti-Semitism at Harvard, which I am against anti-Semitism completely for the same reasons. But no one's lifted a finger to address the actual problem, which is like normal middle class, white kids have no shot of going to Harvard. They're hated. The curriculum hates them officially. here's a book saying whiteness is evil. Let's assign that.

Starting point is 01:20:36 It's like, if there was a book that says Jewishness is evil, we'd be like, no. Or blackness is evil, no. So this has gone on for really since the Second World War. And I think like so many things that are bad. And if you say that, they're like, are you for Hitler? No, I'm very anti-Hitler. Hitler was anti-Christian and a murderer. Destroyed his own people and lots of other peoples, including Jews.

Starting point is 01:21:01 And I'm totally opposed to all of that. But it's just a fact that since the Second World War, these trends, which are now flowering, and we can see that it's the end of something, they began then. They began in 1945. What is that? And I have a lot of thoughts about that. But one is that our leaders globally in the West took away from World War II one big lesson, and that's that any white majority Christian country is a threat to world peace to the order.

Starting point is 01:21:29 You can't have a majority white Christian country because Germany, under the world, the Nazis was majority white Christian. Now, of course, the Nazis were not a Christian government. They were an anti-Christian government that killed a lot of priests, but whatever. That has somehow become a kind of unspoken consensus among many of our leaders. In fact, I would say almost all of our leaders. They're embarrassed of tons of white people in the same place. Look at that picture.

Starting point is 01:21:54 That doesn't look like America. And none of us have ever said anything. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. you're attacking people in the basis of their race. Isn't that what you say you hate that we're all against? But you're doing it. Why don't you stop that immediately? No one has ever had the balls to say that.

Starting point is 01:22:12 And so it's kind of proceeded to pace and it's become not just a consensus but like the reason for everything. And the result of that is the total destruction of the white world. And there was a white world. There was a Chinese world too and an Indian world. Arab world or lots of different worlds or different peoples in the country. And I know them all and I like them all, actually, because I've been to all their countries. I've never been to a country I didn't like. I've never, I've never merited in a culture I didn't think was interesting and kind of cool,

Starting point is 01:22:45 even though it's not mine. You know, I am not. I'm the opposite of like small-minded person. I'm like, really for diversity, actually. I've really enjoyed it. A lot. If I went, you know, I always spend a lot of time in the Middle East. And I enjoy it because it's Middle Eastern.

Starting point is 01:23:00 and it's not American. So, like, you can love different cultures, and I sincerely ask anyone who travels with me, I sincerely do, without wanting to destroy the one you grew up in. And, like, if other people are trying to destroy it on the basis of race, which they are, it's totally within bounds to be like, what are you doing and why?

Starting point is 01:23:21 And that's what immigration is, of course. It's not an effort to make our economy better. And you see these people say, well, you know, which is true, this is true, but you'll hear people say of mass migration, Well, it's an effort for the ownership class to access cheaper labor by globalizing everything. And that, of course, as a matter of economics, is absolutely true. But it's not the whole story.

Starting point is 01:23:42 When you start importing people from countries that are, you know, badly educated and socially dysfunctional and totally incompatible culturally with yours, are you really doing that so you can, like, reap their cheap labor? Are we importing Somalis so we can, like, set them to work in factories for half the rate that Native Americans? No, we're not. Because they're not working in fact. It's not working at all in a lot of cases. They're on state and federal aid. I'm not attacking them. I'm just saying, I'm attacking the motives of the people who imported them against the will of the American population. I mean, there was never a groundswell. Let's bring in 50 million people illegally

Starting point is 01:24:19 and put them on welfare. No one ever asked for that. No one ever wanted that. So why did they do it? Well, they did it not to make the country richer. They didn't. They did it to make it non-majority white. So that is an act by definition of racial hostility, of racism. And they've never been called out on it because somehow they, the first thing they did was take the moral high ground and occupy it and start yelling at everybody about how they're bad, you're racist, shut up, racist, shut up Nazi. And they so thoroughly intimidated the population into not saying anything that they just destroyed it. And then a lot of the whites, who really always the ones that I blame, since I am white, and you just sort of instinctively blame people

Starting point is 01:25:02 who look like you, just a fact. They're always telling you, you hate the other. That's the opposite of what I've noticed about people. I feel like people are much more open-minded about the other. I've been in a, probably every country in the world, and people do something outrageous, and I'll be like, oh, that's kind of interesting. I'm much less judgmental. But when someone who looks like me who grew up in the same country, I did, does something wrong.

Starting point is 01:25:24 I have no grace for that person. I judge them. And it was the whites who did this. Sorry, it's just a fact. And they're the ones who get hysterical when you pointed out. And when I go to the UK, which is a lot because I'm family there, as I said, I'm going in two days. I never have been in an argument with any Pakistani or Bangladeshi or Indian and ever or Arab in London, ever. They're always like, yeah, okay, you've got views and they actually agree with a lot of my views, honestly.

Starting point is 01:25:57 I just have noticed this, okay? It's always the rich whites who get way up in your face about it. In fact, I had a speech at a very, very famous school, one of the most famous schools in England. I had a speech on Sunday night. Someone at the school asked me to do it. Of course, I will do it for free. I was there, and so I would do it.

Starting point is 01:26:19 And I just got a text saying, no, you've been canceled because they don't want you on campus because you're too dangerous. This is like a very famous. white school. They're the ones who were mad. They're the ones who are touchy about it. And the reason they're mad and they're touchy is because, and this is such a familiar phenomenon, they've turned the hate against them inward on themselves. And people who hate themselves are the least trustworthy and most dangerous people in the world. If someone hates himself, he'll definitely hate you. There's just no doubt. There's no doubt. I've watched people carefully for many years.

Starting point is 01:26:57 That is the group that I fear, the people who've internalized the hate and turned it inward. And we have whole countries like that and whole leadership classes, like the very familiar image of the angry, menopausal, liberal politician screaming at people about their sexism and racism. What are we really looking at? We're looking at someone who hates herself, you know, has had no leadership in her life, no security, no love, no real relationships. She's miserable. and she's turning that misery outward and projecting it on the population. And that's a lot of our leadership classes like that.

Starting point is 01:27:35 Sorry for such a long answer, but I really feel it. Wow. I mean, where does it derive from? Well, that's a really interesting question. And the short answer is I don't know, you know. I mean, I'm, as I think I've made clear in the, in our conversation, I'm much more likely now in the past couple of years to think about the spiritual dimension of human affairs. Who wins? What is the motive?

Starting point is 01:28:11 Nobody wins. That's kind of what I've arrived at, is that, and that actually is what made me think more deeply about Christianity and about the spiritual realm and read the Bible. And it's really changed my life. was not because I noticed how decent Christians were to each other. I wish I could say that was true. But what changed my life was watching how American politics had changed from an argument about how best to serve the population. You had two sides, you know, having this debate. Well, I think we should raise taxes. No, I think we should lower them. But the goal was at least purportedly the same on both sides. Like, how do we do the best job we can for the people we represent that we lead for our people?

Starting point is 01:28:55 And that was always the conversation. You had these kind of amazing, interesting arguments, and I literally did it for a living. I was on a show called Crossfire. It was right and left, and we would debate what was best for the country. And the debates were dumb and whatever. It was cable news, so of course it was at a pretty low level. But I never one time questioned the goal was like what's good for America. And then about 10 years ago, the nature of the debate changed.

Starting point is 01:29:19 All of these issues that like immigration was one, the trans thing, the gay thing was another. And I was like, how in the world could that possibly be good for anybody? It's not good for the people you say you're for. It's not good for everyone else. Like, I see only destruction abolish the police or defund the police. That's one of the things that convince me. It's like, okay, if you believe that George Floyd was beaten to death by a racist cop, he odied on fentanyl. But even if you believed he was beaten to death by a racist cop and the biggest problem

Starting point is 01:29:52 that black people have in America is racist cops, racist white cops making $47,000 a year. They're the problem. It's not the billionaires that are the problem. It's the union cop is the problem. Okay. Okay. All right. Maybe you believe that.

Starting point is 01:30:08 Let's see you really believe that. And let's say, you know, your life's goal was to help black people, which I'm not against. It's a fine goal. Help black people. How long would it take you if you really wanted to help black people to get to the solution defund the police. You would never arrive at that solution

Starting point is 01:30:27 because obviously defunding the police is not going to help black people or white people or Asian people or any people. It's not going to help people make the police better maybe, but get rid of the police? Like, how does that work? How is that possibly going to wind up

Starting point is 01:30:41 improving anybody's life? And of course, the answer was it can't. And it didn't. But it was never going to. So I watched that. And of course, I'm opposed to it, you know, for the normal concern. conservative reasons. We need police. But even the fact that we were having that conversation

Starting point is 01:30:57 was a signal to me that this is a very different thing that I'm used to. This is people advocating and not just like the underclass. By the way, black people played no role in that conversation at all. No one ever asked black people what they thought was just like eight of their designated representatives on MSNBC. We're like, I'm a black person. But no one actually asked black people what they thought because no one cared. The point. point was never to make anyone's life better. It was to destroy the country and the people who live in it. It was purely destructive. I really brooded on this because I had to write the script every night. So I was like constantly in my head thinking like, what are we watching? Don't be

Starting point is 01:31:38 distracted by the bullshit. Like, what is this? And I concluded because there was no other conclusion that the point was destruction. That was the point. So I have always thought since I was a child that it's a binary. There are creators and destroyers. A synonym for this is good and evil. God creates his opponents destroy. God created the earth and the heavens. His opponents destroy them. It's that simple. I mean, it's complex in many ways, but fundamentally it's that simple. It's creation, destruction. And I've always been for creation, always. I believe in procreation. I believe in impregnating women. It's awesome. I believe in building cabins. Awesome. I like to create. Like what my dogs have puppies.

Starting point is 01:32:23 So I saw this right away, and I was like, this is not a political debate. This is a spiritual struggle, creation versus destruction. And that totally changed my life in every way that really set off a chain reaction in me that changed me and changed my understanding of the world, changed my sense of my own purpose in the world. How long have you been thinking this? Since Memorial Day 2020. What happened on Memorial Day in 2020? George Floyd riots.

Starting point is 01:32:56 And I'd covered, you know, a lot of stuff and been a lot of places and seen chaos and stuff. And one thing that I have concluded that I just noticed as a kid, watch, you know, Katrina or in a rock or in Pakistan where you see, like, things fall apart is that everyone, you know, was so scared of war and violence and all this stuff. But that the scary, and oppression, you know, I was always an Orwell fan. So I was like, you know, Big Brother is the scariest thing. No, the scariest thing is chaos. Chaos is the scariest thing. Chaos. And then later in life when I read the Old Testament, I was like, God brought order out of chaos.

Starting point is 01:33:36 Of course. I didn't even know. I mean, I'm Episcopalian, so I didn't really know anything. But chaos, I just noticed it because I was in a couple, several times in the middle of what was chaos. No one in charge. You know, kids with rifle. are in charge. They have no goals. They have no program. They're not so ideology. My whole life I've been understanding history through the lens of ideology. There are these revolutionary

Starting point is 01:34:01 peasants in Peru and they're Senderra luminoso and they're revolutionary peasants in Vietnam. They're the Viet Cong. And like everything was about like the idea. And what I didn't realize until I saw it in person was no, it's not that. It's much it's atavistic. It's much deeper than that. It's more primitive. It's more fundamental than that. that. It's the struggle in the universe is between order and chaos. And I'm on the side of order. Not on the side of repression. Order is now a synonym for repression, which I hate because I believe in the human soul and the dignity of every person. But chaos is the worst thing. And I saw people in my country fomenting chaos for its own sake. I don't know

Starting point is 01:34:42 if they're intentionally evil. Probably not. Most of us aren't. But they were tools of spiritual forces doing that. And I instantly recognized this was totally. totally different from everything I've been covering and thinking about, writing about, talking about on TV for 30 years. This was a new thing. And that just changed it. When that chaos broke out in Minneapolis, I'm not from Minneapolis, I have no attachment to Minneapolis.

Starting point is 01:35:08 Yes, there are a lot of Swedes in Minneapolis or were, I think they've left, but I saw this for what it was. And I was so bothered by it that actually went to the convenience store where George Floyd tried to pass the funny $20 bill. and went to the site where he was killed and won all around by myself. I literally landed there, went by myself, didn't do a story, I don't know anything.

Starting point is 01:35:27 I just wanna see it. And what I saw was what I expected to see a year later. It was a year after it happened. In 2021, I went and I saw a place that had never recovered and never would recover. And that to me was proof of what I suspected, which was the point was destruction. The point was not rebirth.

Starting point is 01:35:45 They always tell you it's rebirth, we need to tear it down in order to rebuild it. They never rebuild it. Because they don't want to, because that's not the point. and people who want to build just go ahead and build and people want to destroy go ahead and destroy and they're in totally different camps they're on opposing sides it's literally that simple anyone who tells you we need to knock it down in order to build it again is lying to you and probably to himself he may think that that's not his goal his goal is to destroy because satan's job is to destroy you and everything

Starting point is 01:36:11 around you everything good everything beautiful everything orderly everything warm and loving and fraternal everything honest is to destroy destroyed loyalty destroy beauty all the things that are virtues will be destroyed

Starting point is 01:36:25 in that all consuming fire of destruction and I just didn't know that I was thinking in totally different terms political terms stupid terms

Starting point is 01:36:34 childish terms and I didn't even know it I didn't even know how dumb I was because you never do my days don't slow down Between work, the gym, and time with the kids, I need eyewear that can keep up with everything

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Starting point is 01:39:00 Gambling problem call Connects Ontario, 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Holy shit. So that was a moment for me, and I was the beauty of my job then and now is there's a lot of,

Starting point is 01:39:23 not a lot, not enough, but there is some contemplative time. Because if you have to talk about stuff or present an opinion, part of the process is like thinking about what is my opinion. And now that I have no pressure on me from anywhere, I have zero pressure on me at all. I don't have a boss. don't care about what people who hate me think necessarily. And if they have a good point, I try to listen to it, but their purpose is not to instruct to destroy.

Starting point is 01:39:54 But anyway, now that I have no pressure on me, I have more contemplative time. And I have a freer mind. And I think I can see things more clearly. I hope I can, always with the knowledge that we go really off track and don't know it, including me. But I think everything I've said is true. I believe it's true anyway. do you think that this agenda that you're talking about do you think this comes from nations governments humans or do you think that this is spiritual well it's clearly spiritual i mean really every big thing that we do is i mean if you believe what every culture has ever left any record of what it believes has believed has believed

Starting point is 01:40:42 There is an ongoing, unseen struggle between light and darkness, order and chaos, destruction and creation, good and evil, God and Satan. Like every, there's no culture that hasn't believed that ever, ever, except Western culture since the end of the Second World War, we're in this absurd delusion about God is dead, but God's not dead, and everyone has thought that and everyone's thought that because it's obviously true and the signs are all around us. So if you believe that, and I didn't believe this five or six years ago, I may have told you I believed it, but I definitely didn't really believe it at all. I didn't live like I believed it.

Starting point is 01:41:18 I didn't think like I believed it. But now I do, because I've seen a lot. I've seen more than most people. And that's my conclusion. And if you believe that, then, you know, you know that in the end, the good guys win. there's a lot of drama between here and there probably won't live to see it but it doesn't matter you do your part but it definitely it makes a lot of the details not unimportant but it sets them in context and it definitely gets you out of this kind of pointless loop in your head of like shock

Starting point is 01:41:59 outrage i can't you know into the kind of social media dialogue that goes on inside your own skull where you know it's like point counterpoint well this person did this i used to believe in that person i can't believe he's betrayed me it's like again for the fifth time what did you think it was what did you think it was did you find yourself believing that a human being was going to save your soul and like fix human sin who's the asshole you you believe that and i no longer do believe that at all and i know how flawed i am i mean i have a keen sense of that that. I'm reminded of it every day. And so how can I expect someone else to be like good and true and pure and never bend the knee and always do the right thing? Like, no, we're all imperfect,

Starting point is 01:42:50 but we're, you know, some of us are at least trying with the knowledge that we're going to fail and, you know, humiliate ourselves from time to time. But I'm just, I'm not shocked at all anymore. But what is it? The destruction of whites? I don't know. I really don't know. But tell me how that's not real. It is real.

Starting point is 01:43:13 And what's so hilarious is they're like, one of the reasons I started thinking about this was, I, you know, I hosted this TV show. I still host a version of something like that, I guess. And so in that process, as you well know, you get a lot of numbers. Like, you're an American. So you're trained to make decisions.

Starting point is 01:43:31 based on the data, have your perceptions shaped by science, you know, all these, like, you know, things you grew up with. And so it's always like, hey, can you pull the numbers for me on this? Like, who lives here? Do we know? It's such a big country. And I've been all around it and feel like I know it pretty well, but I don't really know it that well. No one knows America. It's like the CIA.

Starting point is 01:43:54 No one person in CIA knows what everybody is doing in CIA because it's compartmentalized. America's same thing. So I would pull these numbers and like, I never was interested really in demographics. I'm still not that interested, but I would shoot these numbers. It's like, holy shit, this country's changing fast. On the most basic level, who lives here? You know, like this town was 90% white. Now it's 60% Hispanic.

Starting point is 01:44:18 And that took 20 years. Has there ever been anything that moved that fast? Like, human populations change very slowly. You do blood tests and the people who live 20 miles from Stonehenge and then you do excavations at Stonehenge and you find that they're related. So what do you think? So, but I would see this and I'd be like, wow, this country's really changing. And then I would see, but I still wasn't like hyped up about it or anything, but I was like,

Starting point is 01:44:40 wow, that's kind of crazy. This is happening so fast. And then I would see people like, Chuck Schumer stand up and be like, the one thing you're not allowed to say is that the great replacement theory is real. You're an anti-Semite. And my first though, is what are the anti-Semite? What does that have to do with it? I guess I'm too literal or slow or something.

Starting point is 01:44:56 And I'm like, it's nothing to do with Jews. It's not anti-Semitic. Like, how was that a conspiracy theory? That's, here are the numbers, dude. And there's you on the floor of the Senate saying, I can't wait till this country's minority white. Okay, so you're telling me you can't wait for something to happen. And when I say, what are you talking about?

Starting point is 01:45:15 You scream at me and call me a bigot and tell me that I'm a conspiracy theorist for noticing what you just bragged about. You don't have to be a genius, and I'm definitely not a genius, to say, what the hell is that? And that's when I, and then, of course, I traveled so in Australia and like, oh my gosh, New Zealand or Canada, what is, and again, to answer your question in one sense, I don't know exactly, but this is the biggest thing, just biggest fact, biggest change to happen to global population ever in recorded history that we know of. And nobody mentions it because they're too intimidated that they'll be like called. David Duke or something. So, I mean, what you're saying basically is the white race is destroying itself from the

Starting point is 01:46:06 inside, just like the country is destroying itself from the inside. I mean, look, again, I hope I'm being honest about my lack of understanding. I don't understand the full outlines of this, but you... What does it look like if the white race is destroyed? I don't know, but why would you ever want to destroy any race? on purpose. I mean, we had, you know, Europeans in the United States had a lot to do with the destruction of the American Indian.

Starting point is 01:46:38 It wasn't all intentional. Disease played the primary role, but there was also, like a sense that we can't have the whole continent if people are still occupying it. We got to move them and keep them from roaming around and pen them up in Oklahoma or whatever. And that was intentional. And what was not all intentional. Again, disease played the primary role, but there was intent there. And why did my ancestors do that?

Starting point is 01:47:05 Europeans do that? Because they wanted the continent and there were people there. And that story is pretty familiar. Like, that's the story of the Mongols sweeping across the step. That's the story of the Normans showing up in England. That's a story of every invasion and rape. And, you know, that's a story. Replace your genetics with mine.

Starting point is 01:47:24 Rape your wife. My Viking ancestors participated in that. Sorry. Okay. So we know that. That's just like a feature of history because it's a feature of human nature. Is that what this is? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:47:37 But it's never been more effective than what's happening now. And it's as far as I know never happened with the active, enthusiastic complicity of the people being replaced. I've never seen anything like that. It's incredible. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because people do commit suicide. and they are convinced that they have to kill themselves. But the pure hate it shows is what still stuns me.

Starting point is 01:48:04 How could leaders hate their own people so much? And as a father, I don't understand that. And I'm really bothered by that. If you have people in your care, your only real job is to love them. And we can argue about what love looks like and how it manifests itself. But you can't hate them. You cannot hate them. And our leaders have hated us with homicidal hatred.

Starting point is 01:48:29 Homicidal hatred. It's not just, I want to get rich and, like, you know, steal all your shit. It's like, no, I want you to die. And they couldn't have been clearer about it. I don't know how I didn't see it. But the results make it irrefutable, irrefutable. The country I grew up and I was born in May of 1969, tell me the differences between America and May of 69, months.

Starting point is 01:48:55 before we landed on the moon or whatever. And now, in the main difference is a completely different group of people live here. What happened are the old people? How did that happen? It was intentional. Of course it was. They said it out loud, the president of the United States. And I can't wait to listen.

Starting point is 01:49:12 He's just like, again, going back to the first part of this conversation, how is it that you see things right in front of you and yet don't see them? I don't know. It's a spell. but I want to break free from it do you ever feel that in your life like somebody's just right there and you couldn't see it oh yeah all the time all the time

Starting point is 01:49:37 and then I get pissed out myself of course me too or just bewildered like gosh I flattered myself I'm such a keen observer really I mean you know you say that these the politicians hate us I believe you. I think the same thing. I don't think any of them. Can't say any of them.

Starting point is 01:49:58 We talked about Eli Crane earlier. For sure. Oh, I know. So you had Tim Burchard on. I like him too. Love Tim Burchardt. I love a couple of them. I don't want to wreck their lives by telling you who they are.

Starting point is 01:50:12 But there are a couple I talk to and love and think are really decent people caught in a maelstrom. Caught. You know, though, I mean. I thought about running in 2020, or not 2020, last election. And, like, I really thought about it. I was like, fuck, man. Here? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:50:34 I thought about running for Congress or so. I didn't even, I was just like, somebody's got to get involved. Yeah. You know, and I called, you know, the two people just named that I, the only fucking people I trust in there. and I called some other people too but the general consensus was like you're not going you're not going to have any impact

Starting point is 01:51:00 no they know they don't have any fucking impact and they're so frustrated you're unhappy so unhappy so unhappy no it's a night it's a nightmare I have known people at all positions of all positions of leadership and the best ones are the most frustrated.

Starting point is 01:51:23 They leave. They leave. They leave. Yeah, they leave. They make accommodations that destroy them. The real battles within us, right? So don't be destroyed. Don't make the trade.

Starting point is 01:51:38 Power for your integrity. Never do that. It's never worth it. I know people who've done that. I know people. That's the trap that we were talking about earlier. Well, it's the, right. Fall down.

Starting point is 01:51:48 worship me and all this will be yours. I mean, that's the bargain. That's the bargain. And every person faces that. Every person faces that. Usually a lot. And but I know a million people who've taken the deal and I know a few of them really well, like intimately well. And I know it sounds like moral, and I've certainly done that a million times in my life. You make accommodations because you think it's worth it or whatever, you know, I'm not being judgmental. But I know a couple people intimately well who've done it in a big way, you know, big accommodation, big reward. All this will be yours.

Starting point is 01:52:25 And I can say from firsthand knowledge that that is not a good trade at all and those people are tormented. They're in hell on earth. And I'm not guessing at all about that. And it's it's really sad. They're captives. They're absolutely captives and you can tell who's free. You can feel.

Starting point is 01:52:45 Do you feel bad for them? Oh my gosh, yes. Why? They fucking sold us out. Because they're, because they're in bondage. They sold you out. They sold your friends out. Oh, I've certainly been sold out a million times.

Starting point is 01:52:57 Sold your wife out. They sold all your friends out. They sold the whole fucking country. Of course. Why do you feel bad for them? Because imagine being that man. You know, the person you feel sorry is for in the whole New Testament is Peter. Jesus is like, you're going to, you're going to, imagine.

Starting point is 01:53:15 Okay, so the family that I grew up in, which was not, you know, conventional at all. But we had a very simple moral code in my family. Very simple, the most simple. It was the mafia code. You know, some things were discouraged but allowed. You wind up banging your assistant. Don't do that, bye, you know, things happen. You cheat on your taxes.

Starting point is 01:53:36 Okay, don't get caught. Betray people you love who love you. That is not acceptable in any way. betrayal of someone you love is the worst thing you could ever do true betrayal denial of a person you love and that was just beaten into us I mean we never even questioned that that was the center of our family that belief you never but you never betray if I remember my father saying you know don't commit a triple murder but if you ever do like call me you know we'll get you to oblivia you know or whatever and um that was just like it couldn't have been clearer so then you read

Starting point is 01:54:09 the new testament it's like Jesus like to Peter his guy who loves him more than any one and loves him. Jesus loves Peter most. And he's like, you're going to betray me three times. Betray you? Yes. And then Peter does it to a girl. This little girl is like, don't you know him? And Peter's like, I never seen the guy before. And I remember the first time I read that, I was like, you are disgusting. You are, you betrayed your friend? Like, I just, in my mind, I think, whenever I see someone do something bad, I'm like, yeah, I'm so glad I didn't do that, but I know my, I could do anything. I'm just being honest. I don't trust myself. I would never betray someone I love. I've never done it. I never would do it. And then you see that and you're just like imagine

Starting point is 01:54:53 living with that. Imagine betraying somebody. I mean, I've been denounced this week. Like 20 people I've helped. And you sort of toggle like in a couple cases like really helped. And you toggle back and forth in your head between being like outrage. Like how could you, you know, all the things I did for you. I had you on my show. I helped you in your divorce or whatever it is. In the case of one guy, I sold your schlocky books because I felt sorry for you. And now you're calling me a Nazi and you're like, oh, I'm so mad. And then really, I mean this. I'm not just saying it. I really ended up feeling like, oh, how'd you like to be that guy? How would you like to be that guy? Like, your wife knows. Your wife is, she's never going to enjoy sex with you again.

Starting point is 01:55:44 you know, a woman can't respect a man like that. Losing the respect of your wife? Oh, man. Ooh. Your wife's pissed at you that, you know, whatever. Your wife doesn't respect you? Rather be dead. I mean that in my heart. I mean, I'd rather be dead because that. A wife's respect for her husband is the basis of a family. If you could distill it to one thing that makes a happy family, happy children. It's a wife's respect for her husband, period. Lots of elements in the stew, but the stock, the base of it, is a wife's respect for her husband. Now, of course, it's not given, it's earned, but it's the basis of everything. And if a man, you know, weakness is very hard for women to forgive, real weakness, not physical, moral weakness, being a worm, man, they know.

Starting point is 01:56:39 they're like animals so they know and they don't lie to themselves like a woman knows what a woman knows and you can't dissuade her from it because she can smell it she doesn't doubt her own instincts on anything woman's intuition is the realest thing there is and the number one thing they don't like and have every reason not to like is a man who is weak and she will not respect that man and period can't make her actually can't really make women do anything we learn and which is great That's what I like about him, but that I was thinking that's what I like about him. Yeah, you have to, you have to really lead. If you want to want to want to respect you, you know, you have to be better actually.

Starting point is 01:57:17 No one wants to hear that, but it's just true. You can't make him respect you. You can't beat him into respect in you. Shut up, respect me. No, it doesn't work that way. So that's why the release between men and women is so compelling. It's like the movie that never ends. It's like a cliffhanger at every turn.

Starting point is 01:57:36 It's like so complex and interesting and rewarding. And it's like it's the main source of joy and fascination in life. But this one person I'm thinking, I'm not going to name him, but specifically, I literally was like blown away that this guy called me a Nazi. And then, of course, it's making a career of calling me a Nazi. And then I was like, oh, at what cost to you? I mean, in three months, no one will remember. Why were they calling him a Nazi? Doesn't seem like a Nazi.

Starting point is 01:58:04 No one will care. No one ever cares about this stuff over time. We can't remember. You hear people's names, and you're like, weren't you in some kind of sex scandal 10 years ago? No one can remember. But a man who loses, who behaves that way in a dishonorable, degraded way in front of his wife who betrays someone for advantage. Like, she'll never forget that, ever.

Starting point is 01:58:25 And he has to live with that. And I don't have, of all the sins I've committed and there are many I can write books about them. That's just not one of them. Because I'm never going to do that. and I'm not being pious or self-righteous, but it's just true. And so I do feel sorry for people who've taken that deal is not worth it. And the other thing that you have learned and that I've learned, if you're ever successful in any way, and all of a sudden, like, the things that you want and you can have, like,

Starting point is 01:58:52 oh, I really want this thing. And then you get the thing. And it's like Christmas morning, the second you open the president, it's like, kind of a letdown. You know, the best part of Christmas morning is before. before you open the presence, what's beneath the wrapping? Holy shit, I can't, you know, is it, is it a bike? Like, you don't know. It's totally compelling.

Starting point is 01:59:10 And the second you know, it's a lot like an orgasm. It's like, oh, man, I worked hard to get here, but, uh, what? It's like, it's why the French call it le petit mar, you know, the little death. Because it's a letdown. And everything in life is that. Everything material is that. And so you get this thing that you thought you wanted. whether it's the new bike or control over a nation or adulation or vindication or billions of dollars.

Starting point is 01:59:39 And then you sit there alone in your living room and you're like, eh, kind of wasn't what I thought it was going to be. That is true. And the one good thing about being successful is you learn that, you know, that's like the first thing you learned. This is what I got. People kissing my ass or a summer house or it's like, okay. I mean, it's not against any of that. It's, you know, great to be respected.

Starting point is 01:59:58 Great to have a summer house. But, like, it's not worth having your wife. not respect you. Nothing is worth that. Ever. Everyone used to know that. People would be like happily go die, you know, to win the respect of their wives. And they should. They should. It's worth it. Why did you decide to have Nick Fuentes on? I thought you guys hated Nick Fuentes and he, well, going back to what I was just saying, he criticized my dad. I also criticized my wife and my son, but I don't know much about him. Well, I was super pissed at him.

Starting point is 02:00:34 He was 27, and he criticized my dad. Why were you pissed at him? Because he criticized your dad. Not a lot of criticism my dad. I'm his oldest son. Those are just the rules. Can't, can't stand with that. My father was a flawed man.

Starting point is 02:00:45 What did he, but a great man. Oh, CIA guy. He did all this bad shit. He was involved in Iran Contra. And so it was true, you know, sort of true or something true enough, I guess. So that made it worse. It made me mad or whatever he said about my dad. But I just, my father just died.

Starting point is 02:01:01 And I was like, I can't, I, I'm, that just drives me absolutely insane. So, and I feel an obligation to be mad about it because it's my dad. Those are the rules. So I attacked him. And then I called him and I was like, look, I don't know you, but I want you to know why. I always want to tell people why I don't like them and I want to do it right to their face. And I always call people and just say, I'm going to attack you or I did attack you and I want you to hear why from me. I just did that.

Starting point is 02:01:30 yesterday to somebody. Anyway, I always do that. And so I called Nick Fuentes and I said, I want you to know why I attacked you, attacked you because you criticized my father. And I just never going to accept that. My father was a great man and flawed, but a great man, like literally a great man. And I'm never going to accept that. And he, to his credit, was like, I get that. I get that. So, but I still didn't like him. I'm not friends with him now. But I, because of that, I got a lot of input from people. Like, I don't know that much about Nick Fuentes. I'm 56.

Starting point is 02:02:05 I don't like the Internet, so I don't really know that much. I've seen clips. He's very talented. I know that. But I'm not an expert on that at all. And I got calls from a lot of people, including some very influential people who know a lot about Nick Fuentes. And they're like, this kid is the single most influential figure among young white men,

Starting point is 02:02:28 and not just white, actually. Is that true? Oh, it's definitely true. I mean, it was true last month. I don't know if it's true. I mean, everything changes. Who knows? But that was definitely my impression, and I think it's right.

Starting point is 02:02:39 And in the subsequent weeks, I've asked a million different people, Nick Fuentes. And like, yes, he's extremely influential among young men. Wow. How young? What age year? They're 20s, teens and 20s, college students, high school students, college students just out of college, can't find a job. They can't find jobs, right? A lot of this, by the way, a lot of the frustration is economic.

Starting point is 02:02:59 economic, which no one wants to talk about or seems invited to talk about. It's not about the Jews. It's about the economy. And it's about the betrayal that young men feel when they go through all these hoops and get all these stupid degrees and find out they're worth nothing. And they're in $300,000 in debt. And I did what you told me to do when I'm fucked. So I'm mad at you.

Starting point is 02:03:20 And why wouldn't they be? They have every right to be. That's my personal opinion. But it's just true. Anyway, and a lot of those men watch Nick Fuentes. So I was like, Nick Fuentes is one of those figures that everybody, like Putin, that's why I interviewed Putin. Everyone talks about this person, but nobody, I believe in one of my missions, this is not everyone's mission. It just happens to be mine at this stage of my life is I want to hear what people think.

Starting point is 02:03:44 And I want to give people a chance to speak for themselves because I think every person from Idi Amin to Mother Teresa has an inherent right to tell their own story. And you can disagree with the story and you can doubt the story and you can do whatever you want. But to say they don't have a right to tell their story, I just reject that. I disagree. I disagree. And I feel like it's not my only mission in life, but that's one of my beliefs. And I've done what I can, my limited attention and means to, like, give people a place to tell their story. Why should people on the Internet have a right to define anybody with two-minute clips?

Starting point is 02:04:25 and that person doesn't have a right to tell his own story, I just reject that. I don't care. I reject that, whether it's Hillary Clinton or Nick Fuentes or anyone in between. People have a right to say what they think. And if you want to watch it, don't. So I just believe that. And I'll never stop believing that. And if they don't have that right, what you're really saying is other people have a right to speak for someone else. And they don't. They don't because we're all created by God and we all have. the right to say what we think. So I believe that. So I was like, if I have Nick Fuentes on, obviously that probably some people will criticize me just as they do with Putin, you know, you love Nick Fuentes. You agree with everything. He says, no, I've interviewed war criminals in Liberia. I've interviewed cannibals.

Starting point is 02:05:14 I kind of liked them, just being honest. I kind of like everybody I interview. Did you guys break bread together? Me and the cannibals? No. And by the way, this was in Africa. And I did not lecture them about cannibal. which I'm totally opposed to.

Starting point is 02:05:28 But anyway, so I did, and it was really interesting. And I try not to lecture people just in general because I don't think it's, I don't like being lectured at all. And I don't think most people do. And I think the purpose of lecturing people usually is self-aggrandizing. The point of lecturing, you know, Sean Ryan, you're a bad person. Unlike me, I'm a great person. I don't have the need to convince people I'm a great person at all.

Starting point is 02:05:58 I just don't feel that need. They can decide for themselves. And I feel like that's a really dishonest way to interview people. You're using them as a man uses a prostitute for his own pleasure. So I'm using you to make a statement about myself. I'm not doing that. I don't need to do it. I don't want to do it.

Starting point is 02:06:17 And I'm not going to lecture Putin about his war crimes. You can read about Putin all you want. I want to hear what Putin says. And I took that exact same approach with Nick Fuente. And I knew there would be, you know, an outcry or whatever. Probably understated it a little bit. But, you know, not up to me. But my conscience is clear.

Starting point is 02:06:37 One of the only parts that kind of bothered me, but now it amuses me, is there was a point in the interview where Nick Fuentes said, really, out of nowhere, I love Stalin. It's like, Joseph Stalin? And he's like, yeah, I love Stalin. I mean, this was not relevant to what we were talking about at all. It just was out of, out of the blue. So I said... Had to get it in there, huh?

Starting point is 02:07:00 I guess. He had like a need to tell me he loves Stalin. So I made a snap decision. I said something like, I don't know what you're talking about. We'll get back to that. And then, of course, I got completely sidetracked and forgotten, didn't get back to it. And I was criticized, didn't get back to it. It's fair, I guess.

Starting point is 02:07:14 My instinct really was, he's just saying that. He probably doesn't know much about Stalin. I actually do know a lot about Stalin. It's like the only thing. I studied in college and I'm interested in the topic. Maybe he does know of my style. I don't know. But I do, actually.

Starting point is 02:07:28 And I have a lot of thoughts on Stalin. It's a very interesting topic. People flipped out about that and accused me of loving Stalin. And what I found, now find amusing about that is those exact same people were also getting mad at me for questioning the course of the Second World War and the conclusions that we're drawing from it. Now, my main problem with America's involvement in the Second World War, was the fact that we sided with Stalin and armed Stalin and made it possible for Stalin to fight that war through a program called Lenleys, which was passed, I think, in the fall of 1941 with a unanimous vote among Democrats and the Congress.

Starting point is 02:08:06 and Stalin was the greatest murderer in history by some counts, Stalin Mao, you know, pick one, but Stalin has a good, has a right to be called that and was definitely unchallenged the most prolific murderer of Christians in history, genocer of Christians and murder of Christians and murder of priests and a destroyer of churches and like a true enemy of Christianity killed tens of millions of Christians. And the U.S. government sent him billions and billions adjusted for inflation, but billions of dollars in cash and clothing and war material and airplanes and tanks and jeeps. I mean, we armed the Red Army. We armed Stalin. To which people say, well, are you for Hitler? No, I'm totally opposed to Hitler. But I'm never going to accept arming Stalin. I'm just not.

Starting point is 02:08:56 Why would I? And these same people were like, well, you had to choose. Well, No. How about what started? We're not arming Stalin. We're also not going to arm Hitler. Why would we do that? You lose all moral authority. You're sending billions to Joseph Stalin of the Ukrainian famine and the purged trials and all the rest. I don't take you seriously if you arm Stalin. Why would I? It was those exact same people who jumped my shit for being pro-Skullen in this interview with Nick Fuentes. And I'm like, I don't take you seriously. Seriously, I'm starting to think you'll say anything to get me to be quiet. And that just made me laugh. To myself, I had no one to talk to about this, of course, but I was amused by it. No, I'm very anti-Stalin. That's actually one of the reasons I'm mad at Churchill because he was closely allied with

Starting point is 02:09:48 Stalin. I'm mad at Roosevelt for the same reason. I'm sad about my country's involvement in a war where we sided with Stalin. And I'm bewildered that no one will say that. And that anyone who does say that is like anti-American. My family's been here for like 400 years. I'm hardly anti-American. I couldn't be more pro-America.

Starting point is 02:10:09 And I'm pro-America because in general we don't arm Stalin. And I don't think we should ever arm Stalin again. Or back Al-Qaeda. Or have the Al-Qaeda guy to the White House like the other day. I'm just not for that. So I guess long story short, I have concluded through much experience that some of the people screaming at me don't have the moral authority to get my attention. good for you what did you learn from that interview i learned that um he's popular for the same reason

Starting point is 02:10:45 most people are popular in unmediated media because he's got a really compelling message which is like 90% true or pretty true what is his message his message is we've been betrayed by the people who thought we're on our side. We thought these people were for us. They actually sold us out. Well, that's certainly true. Israel has way too much influence over our Congress. Obviously, 95% of members of Congress take money from a foreign lobby, APEC.

Starting point is 02:11:18 How is that defensible? By the way, you could be for Israel, but still be like, what is that? Why is that allowed? Are there bigger lobbying firms than April? Well, there are a million. and lobbies and not all of them have organizations, you know, I don't think Israel's America's biggest problem. I've never thought that.

Starting point is 02:11:39 But it's certainly America's most insulting problem. It's so insulting to be ordered around by a country of nine million people when you're the United States. Like what? It's a totally irrelevant country. It's only relevances we promised to protect them. Therefore, we're like involved in all this crap. You fought some of the wars.

Starting point is 02:11:54 But if you take that out and you're just like, hey, you know, good luck. You're great. Wish you well. I can't wait to go to Jerusalem next summer on vacation, which I have done and hope to do again. But if we've imbued the country with all the significance that is not, there are no resources. It's the size of Maryland. It's got nine million people. Like, this is a big world, very complicated.

Starting point is 02:12:14 And somehow our Congress and successive White Houses have decided that the only thing that matters is this tiny irrelevant country. It's not an attack on the country. I do wish Israel. Well, I always have. And I still do. but I am pretty offended by that behavior because they're supposed to be representing me and my fentanyl addicted neighbors and they're not. And they don't care at all about Americans, our leadership.

Starting point is 02:12:38 I'm not attacking Israel. We're talking our leadership. So that's a totally fair position and that is basically his position or that's he's describing the frustration that normal people feel when they see that. And I'm good for him. The Jew hate stuff I'm totally opposed to on every level, moral and practical. And I told him that. Whatever.

Starting point is 02:13:00 So I'm not going to whine about how people are misrepresenting my views because that's who they are. But I personally think big picture, it's always good to get clarity about what people really believe, about what they really care about. We should know. We should know. And maybe you're more for them or more against them, but like it's the lying that bothers me. So I'd much rather have people to be totally straightforward about what their goal. are. I'd love to see what's really in your heart. And I think we're seeing that much more than we did last month. And so for that reason, I'm glad we had the conversation despite the

Starting point is 02:13:37 fact, you know, they're attacking my family, like for real attacking my family, like for real. But we'll be fine. A pretty strong family. So I feel okay about that. And I feel bad for anyone around me who's been hurt by it. That certainly wasn't my intent. but I do think there's been a real upside, which is clarity. It's better. Like, by the way, the dumbness of these people. That's the other thing that, you know what I really learned is how dumb. One of the reasons that the status quo was bad was because a lot of decisions were being made in true secrecy.

Starting point is 02:14:15 Like, not only you did not know who made the decision, you couldn't know why and you were discouraged from talking about, unformed policy questions. You just couldn't know. Shut up. Shut up. Nazi, okay. The debate that we've had over the last month has risen to the surface a lot of things that were subterranean. And as I said, I think that's good. But one of the things we've learned is that the people who are really kind of running America's foreign policy was Lindsey Graham or whomever, these people are not geniuses at all. Like they're dumb. They're dumb. They're just mediocre.

Starting point is 02:14:50 Jeffrey Epstein is my favorite example. Because Jeffrey Epstein lived his life basically in the shadows, You couldn't really know where the money. You still don't know where the money came from. Like, what's the goal of this? What is this? You can't know because it's all secret. Classified, national security. No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 02:15:05 You start to assume that Jeffrey Epstein is this like, Spengali, and he's like, he's a genius and he's controlling everything. And then you read his emails. He's like a fucking moron from Staten Island who can barely speak English. He's like dumb. He has no. He's totally impressed by Harvard. He went to Cooper Union.

Starting point is 02:15:24 He's impressed by Harvard because the brand name impresses him. It's like wearing a polo shirt with a horse on. He thinks that's cool. He's totally unsophisticated, actually, and not smart at all. He's crafty. He's got high canine animal intelligence, but he's not a genius at all. He's a dummy. He's a thug.

Starting point is 02:15:45 And that has been kind of amazing to see. His only real advantage is that he's evil. He'll do anything. He has gotten just no limits. at all. Like, you need to kill someone up. We'll do that. If we have to, we'll do that. And that person, the unscrupulous person, does have an advantage because there are no boundaries, right? So if your goal is to get rich or powerful, you can get there faster if you'll do anything to get there. Doesn't end well, ever. Didn't end well with him. But that's really what I

Starting point is 02:16:14 learned is that the people who are mad at me call me names because that's literally all they can do. Shut up! You can't speak at that event. We don't want you on stage. We're deplatforming you. Okay, I don't care, really, but like... Who's saying that to you? Oh, yeah, I mean, every...

Starting point is 02:16:36 No, I mean, what are we going to do? I don't even want to go through. I don't want to make it about me. Because I'm certainly not oppressed, and you haven't impressed my spirit. You could fucking shoot me, I'm not going to impress my spirit. I mean, I'm just asking because I still see all over the place. I saw you... Of course.

Starting point is 02:16:51 But I guess all I'm saying is, no, no, no, I haven't... I think you were just... with Megan Kelly and her tour and... Megan Kelly is a tough woman, man. She's for real. And I mean, she's more for real than people know. I'm not saying she agrees to me on everything. She doesn't.

Starting point is 02:17:07 And by the way, she doesn't agree with her. She's like, I don't agree with you. You know, she's like that tough. So let's tell you. But she, you can't make Megan Kelly take a position. You just can't. She just won't. Megan Kelly just absolutely will not.

Starting point is 02:17:21 If she agrees, of course she'll agree. But if she doesn't agree, you're not going to, you're not going to, you're not going to scare her into agreeing. There aren't a ton of people like that. There are some. They're all my friends. Even if I disagree with them, I just love people like that. And I want to be around them.

Starting point is 02:17:34 She's one of them. No, but what's interesting is not that they've like, really inconvenience me. They haven't. It's that they've revealed who they are. So, like, once you, they did this with Fuentes. This is the thing I learned is that Fuentes, I didn't know, I didn't know much about him, to be honest.

Starting point is 02:17:51 Just too old for this shit. I just, it's not my generation. And so I just didn't know. But Nick Fuentes first became known freshman year of college, like first month of college. He's a student at BU. And he puts something on the internet Twitter or something and basically like, why does Israel control our Congress? Something like that. He's a college freshman.

Starting point is 02:18:14 And Ben Shapiro sitting at like command center somewhere was like, what? A college student was done on board with the program? Destroy him. and Ben Shapiro tries to quote cancel this kid he's a fucking college student he's a freshman from Chicago rather than just call the guy and be like hey actually I saw what you said I don't like it but there are reasons that were allied with Israel and like it really helps us or whatever make your case whatever your case is his first instinct was this man must be destroyed he can never have a job in con ink some you know no one can hire him and have that work for you Ben Shapiro

Starting point is 02:18:52 Well, of course, it didn't work at all. Nick Fuentes is way bigger than Ben Shapiro has ever been, way more influential than Ben Shapiro has ever been. You can't cancel an idea. It just does not work. Let's kill Jesus. Okay, how'd that work? World's biggest religion. It just doesn't work.

Starting point is 02:19:10 And any wise person knows that. So the only way liberals used to say this, they don't believe it apparently anymore, but the only way to stop bad ideas is by countering them with good ideas. want to defeat lies, tell the truth. It's literally that simple. And as if I needed to be reminded of that the last month, I don't think a single person has ever made the case that I'm wrong, that Nick Fuentes is wrong. The Jew hatred stuff is wrong. Period. And I said that. The white hatred, black hatred, Jew hatred, Malaysian hatred, Bedouin hatred, it's all wrong. I believe that as much as I believe anything. Okay. But the rest of it, his analysis, which is actually smart, and in a lot of cases, true, no one's even attempted to rebut it.

Starting point is 02:19:58 95% or whatever the number is, if members of Congress take A-PAC money, how is that good? Shut up, Nazi! So if that's your only defense, you've lost. You've lost. You didn't even enter the game. We're playing different games. I'm trying to tell the truth, convince people that what I think is true is actually true. And you're trying to make me be quiet because you don't like it.

Starting point is 02:20:22 You can shoot me or you can shoot everybody, but it won't, it doesn't go away because the truth is an immovable object. It just exists and you conform to it or you don't, but it doesn't change because it's nature. Why do you think you got so much shit for having him on? He's been on other stuff. He's been on... Well, I got shit precisely because I'm not an anti-Semite. That was the whole point. I mean, if David Duke or whatever, pick an anti-I don't know, even know there are all.

Starting point is 02:20:52 many, I'm sure they're famous anti-Semites. I can't think of it. But David Duke is a famous anti-Semite. If David Duke interviewed Nick Fuentes, they'd be like, you know, they wouldn't say anything, whatever, who cares, or talking to each other. But if someone who is openly opposed and sincerely opposed to hating people on the basis of their bloodline, which I definitely am, interviews Nick Fuentes and it's like, hey, Nick Fuentes, stop with a Jew hatred. But let's talk about your views on the betrayal of Republican voters by conservative and institutions and the undue influence a foreign country has over our government, those are entirely reasonable conversations and they're scary because they are reasonable. They're very

Starting point is 02:21:33 difficult to refute. You have to, like, what is, what's the counter argument? The country should be controlled by a country of nine million people. Like, what do you even saying? No one agrees with that. So if a reasonable person says it, that is an actual threat. And they were like, well, must destroy him and his son and his brother. And it's like, I'm not afraid of you, man. I'm just not. And not because I'm so tough or brave or whatever, but because why would I be?

Starting point is 02:22:03 You call me names and I'm going to, I, you're not telling the truth and you know you're not. You start saying things about me that are true, that I'm trying to hide, whatever those might be. I'll get in fetal position and hide in the corner. But you throw lies at me? I'm totally unintimitated. And anyone who believes that, I'm sorry.

Starting point is 02:22:29 I'll just say it again. Here's the truth. Don't believe I can't control that. So, yeah, that's why they don't like me. Not because I'm extraordinarily brave. I'm not. Definitely not because I'm extraordinarily smart. I'm not.

Starting point is 02:22:41 But because they don't have an actual argument. So all they can do is destroy. And I think they've reached kind of the limit, like, what's the next stage? That does concern me. Not that much, really. But we're moving into a new time for sure. After the last month, and there are a number of fairly influential people on the right who've just basically said out loud, I'm for censorship and identity politics.

Starting point is 02:23:10 We just had an election a year ago this month in which Republicans won because they repose to, let's say it, censorship and identity politics. And then their voters find out that a lot of the leaders of the party are totally for censorship and identity politics. How does this continue? Well, I'm out. I mean, I know that. But so are a lot of other people. Like, I'm not, would never vote. I don't care what you call yourself. If you're for censorship and identity politics, two things that I truly, on principle as a Christian, oppose, I'm not voting for you. period ever so that's like a big big change like the veil is dropped we we can see like you're walking back from the shower and your towel slipped and i i saw what you look like naked

Starting point is 02:23:57 i can't unsee that right has that ever happened to you you see what someone looks like naked you're like i want this out of my head i don't want to know i saw your appendix scar Oh, man. Right? So I don't, I mean, I don't know. I never know anything that's coming, you know? You can't. It's always something different from what you thought.

Starting point is 02:24:22 But as of right now, I think it's like November, probably. It's before Thanksgiving right now. I know for certain that we're in for big, big, big, big changes. Because just like fighting with your wife and you say something awful but true, things are never the same. what what what what is it about him did that what are what is the what is gen z or what are the younger generation of what are the what's the draw what's the draw to well he's unusually articulate self-confident clear he's a clear talker I don't agree I mean he's 27 so you know not to be arrogant or be like young man you don't know but you know

Starting point is 02:25:09 hanging around a long time gives you I think a fuller perspective and he hasn't. So, like, there are things I disagree with. The conclusions he draws that I think are not true. But in general, the guy is highly articulate, totally fearless, doesn't care at all. That's always a draw. Like, the man who just doesn't care, he's just going to say it, always has a big audience because people are attracted to strength, period. Every time. What strength? It's fearlessness. I'm not afraid. And that's how, you know, that's how the Vikings pick their leaders. Who's the least afraid?

Starting point is 02:25:43 Of course, human beings are like that. They'll never stop being like that. So only in the, only in our world, are there other, do you put like terrified menopausal women in charge? Normal studies don't do that. We're not going to do that in 20 years. But Nick Fuentes is just a reminder that people follow fearlessness because they read it as strength.

Starting point is 02:26:05 We should not be surprised. Why are they open to it? Why are they not watching the approved? Why are they not watching Fox News and some Sean Hannity? What does Sean Hannity think? They don't know who Sean Hannity is. Why? Why are they open to this?

Starting point is 02:26:18 Well, changing technology is one of the things, one of the reasons. They don't watch TV. They don't have cable subs. But the main reason is because they've been completely betrayed. Nick Fuentes is absolutely right. They've been screwed. They can't find jobs. The average age of a first-time homebuyer in the United States is almost 40.

Starting point is 02:26:35 40 years old. It's a disaster. That's like collapse and they've been blamed for it and people have been hating on them their whole lives for being white and being male. Toxic masculinity and white racism are the twin perils we face. That's passive aggression. That's hate posing as concern. If you tell white men that the biggest problems are toxic masculinity and white racism, what you're really saying is you're the biggest problem. We hate you and everything are.

Starting point is 02:27:05 leaders have done has proven that they hate young white men. Everything. From the drugs they prescribe to the fake conditions like ADHD that they make up out of thin air in order to anesthetize boys. Everything about it, it is an organized conspiracy, conscious or not, it's effectively a conspiracy. I don't need to know whether you planned it to know it was a conspiracy. You did this and you achieve this result. That's all I need to know. And they did it. And young men know it. They know And why wouldn't they be mad? I'm mad just thinking about it. And I'm 50, I'm fucking old.

Starting point is 02:27:41 I'm 56. So I'm like, I'm 30 years older than Nick Fuentes. And I, because I care about America and care about people in general and hate to see mistreatment and cruelty of the weak, I'm outraged by that. Just on principle. I hate that. It's exactly what I hate. Pissing on weak people.

Starting point is 02:28:02 That's why I hated using fire hoses on protesters and, Birmingham in 1956, and it's why I hate the toxic masculinity, white racism lie of 2021. It's all the same. And so I am sympathetic to that because it's true. It's provably true. And so my feeling was, I'm going to immediately say, I'm totally against Jew hatred. It's anti-Christian. And I said that.

Starting point is 02:28:27 And he's like, you're right. Okay. Now tell me what you think. Again, my conscience is clear. I'm glad I did that interview. Have you guys spoken since then? No. No?

Starting point is 02:28:43 No. No. And I, and he, someone, a reporter just texted me from some near times or political, and said that he's starting a PAC, a political action committee in, um, in the next political cycle, 2026 to hold politicians accountable. I've never, that's the first I've heard of it. I know nothing about it. I'm not involved in politics on that level, but, and I don't know if that's good or bad. But in general, I think it's very good, in fact, necessary to force leaders to do what they say they're going to do. Otherwise, come on, dude, we're moving toward one of two endpoints.

Starting point is 02:29:27 One is a totalitarian society where you just don't have the option of disagreeing. You have to obey because you've got programmed. digital currency and universal surveillance, and you just have to do what they say, or they'll starve you to death. It's not going to work here. I hope it. I pray it doesn't. Or we're going to have a revolution.

Starting point is 02:29:43 It's one of the two. We're getting totalitarian government or revolution. It's going to work for a little bit, and then it's not going to work. I pray you're right. I'm a gold buyer on that basis, an ammo buyer. But again, I have no track record of seeing the future, but I'm convinced that the current course won't work because it's... It's a lie. If you tell people they own the government, they're in charge, they rule through the representatives in this Democratic Republic. That's what we've told. That's our system. It has been for 2050 years. If you tell them that's the system and you don't deliver on it, they go crazy. They go totally crazy. If you tell it, by the way, I've spent a lot of time.

Starting point is 02:30:22 What do you think happens when a government takes everybody's currency in a country that has more fucking guns and ammunition than anywhere else in the entire world? I mean, as I've said, a million times... It works for a little bit. And then when the desperation kicks in, that shit doesn't fucking work. Well, so that's exactly we're saying the same thing. It's we're moving toward totalitarianism or revolution, violent revolution. By the way, if you tell people they can't say what they think and their vote doesn't matter, how many options have you left for them?

Starting point is 02:30:59 Just one. Very fucking many. That's right. So don't do that. Don't do that. It's much better to give a little. And you do this with your kids, you know, especially when they become teenagers. You reach a point where it's like, hmm, you can smell the defiance on them. How do I handle this? Just punch them in the face, cut them off, starve them out. No? You know, you listen. You make it clear that you're in charge. You'll be

Starting point is 02:31:23 deciding, but you take their position into consideration because you have to because they're becoming adults. You have to be a little flexible. No, you can't smoke weed at the breakfast table. Like, there's some things you will never accept. But you can't ignore every single signal you're getting from your children. Well, your population's very similar. I'm getting really angry right now. Why? I think we should go, uh, I think we should go out back and blow some shit.

Starting point is 02:31:47 Sorry. Break. all right Tucker we're back from the break nice shot by the way and we figured out how to run an excavator about you figured I was in the back I was standing in the back I'm like you can't start that without a key and he did but um oh man we're I don't know where were we got pretty deep there well I was musing as is my habit and you said this is so fucking dark I have to go out here and shoot a firearm That's where we were.

Starting point is 02:32:31 The hair on the back of my neck was starting to say, I just wanted to, yeah, I just wanted to reset. I just restate, I feel totally cheerful because once you see things in their full perspective, it's not scary. It's exactly what we were told. We just didn't believe it. And now that we do believe it, it's great. It's fine, actually. Yeah, that's, that's, I'm not there yet. But maybe one day.

Starting point is 02:32:57 Oh, for sure. where do we go from here so what's always darkest before it's completely black as you know sorry i'm stealing someone else's line but i do like that line um i don't know i mean i clearly we're i mean just in political terms we're at the end of something in the beginning of something new and no one wants change i don't but we're not in control and the current system clearly doesn't match the moment at all and so it's changing and it'll change along probably predictable lines, but also in some unpredictable ways. But I'm for democracy.

Starting point is 02:33:37 Most people are not. The overall majority of people don't want democracy. They just don't want it. They don't like it. It's tedious and annoying and too imperfect, and they want results. So we're moving towards something that is not what we had before. And, you know, I'm not in favor of that. I wish we could return to 1985, but we can't.

Starting point is 02:33:58 So, but you have to just reduce the amount of lying. Like, lying is bad. Lying is bad. It alienates you from other people at aliens or leaders from their people they lead. Everything about it is bad. Just no more, let's just stop lying. That'd be great. I don't know how the fuck you're going to get anybody to stop lying.

Starting point is 02:34:17 Like calling out the liars. But, well, yeah. You know, we were talking about impact earlier. And, you know, one of the things that I want to chat with you about. I don't know how to bring it up organically, so I'm just fucking bringing it up. This is something that, um, it's just, it's the most important issue to me. And that is sex trafficking, sex exploitation and all that shit that is going on in this country. And, um, you know, I, I was, I think it was, I can't remember if I was telling about, telling you about my, my really good friend, Ryan Montgomery, on camera, off camera, whatever.

Starting point is 02:34:56 but that you know i talked about all the impact that we thought we would have that we didn't fucking do anything on but that is one that is one that it's like it seems to be the forbidden topic that everybody's fucking scared to talk about legitimately scared to talk about except for a few and that that's you know the problem with sex trafficking and sex exploitation in this fucking country and um as far as an impact i think i think that is the biggest impact that i've ever made and probably ever will make uh because you know what we did with ryan was i mean he he made it you hear about this stuff all the time right and and um yeah it's hard to believe you know how prevalent it actually is and he proved it you know on the show we i had him open his laptop and

Starting point is 02:35:45 i said just get in any i don't care what it is i just want to see how long this takes i'll sit here for two days if i have to five seconds and i have him screen recorded so that we can prove it. And so I just had him, anyways, the impact that was made, I think, I know for a fact, we scared this shit out of a lot of pedophiles. We educated a ton of, I mean, the interview has 10 million views. And then with the clips and everything else, it's hundreds of millions of views. And we educated on parents on how predators are targeting their kids. We educated a kids on how predators are targeting them and so anyways

Starting point is 02:36:29 I think it was a huge win for kids and so I brought him back on last week he's releasing this week but he came on to talk about this satanic cult 764

Starting point is 02:36:48 have you heard of this? No. Holy shit dude like so this is this is an on online cult and they hang out in, they hang out in, you know, online, they hang out in this,

Starting point is 02:37:04 there's a game that all the kids are playing nowadays called Roblox. Sounds like Roblox, but people know what I'm talking about. Roblox. And Minecraft, and they're, they're fucking everywhere. They're on Xbox. They're on PlayStation. They're on computer games. They're on chat rooms. They're on social media. They're on everything.

Starting point is 02:37:20 And what they do is they target primarily young women you know teenage women and below the girls and you know they they might you know have them do something for um sexually exploit them for a fucking louis Vuitton purse or something like that and then you know then they have the photos and then they they they they keep in touch and they call them back with these groups of people with the photos and say they're going to release this and they're having these girls carve slut into their arms with razor blades. They've had people, they have gone so far now, and this is spreading like wildfire. They had one girl swallow the razor blades after she carved slut into her flesh,

Starting point is 02:38:12 and they had another girl kill herself. And, you know, that's what I want to go out. after now is because that's a there's an impact that you can have where you don't have to have to have to wait on some political prostitute to introduce a fucking bill into congress or or the senate and you're actually going to save somebody's fucking life or save somebody from being sexually exploited or trafficked or you know all of the above but but um man that's Stuff's like, it's just so alarming and so disgusting. And are you tracking any of this shit?

Starting point is 02:39:01 Well, yeah. I mean, there's, I would just, yeah, yes. And I just had an interview, which hasn't aired yet, but with your friend John Rich about this topic this week, we went pheasant hunting together in South Dakota and did it there and talked a lot about it. for three days. I would just say two things.

Starting point is 02:39:26 One, I don't think, and what you just told me, confirms, gives further evidence to what I believe, which is sex trafficking is not primarily about sex. It's about defiling innocence. Sex is hot girl, want to sleep with her. This is not that. This is, and child molestation and all these carving slut, having a girl carved slut into her arm, what's the benefit to you? Well, there's none.

Starting point is 02:39:56 What you're doing is defiling innocence. It's destroying beauty. It's making ugly something pure. It's pissing on an image of God is actually what it is. So it's by its nature demonic. That's what demonic is. So this is a spiritual phenomenon. I think that. I've always thought that. Like, what is that? Someone who likes sex and thinks women are beautiful and everything. What is this? It's not about that. It's about destroying something innocent. So that makes it the most evil thing that there is.

Starting point is 02:40:31 And I couldn't agree with you more. I also think it's way more widespread even than you described. It's called OnlyFans. And I don't know why the guy who runs OnlyFans is not in prison, like right now. Because he's a massive contributor to all kinds of different left-wing causes. So there's that. But, you know, if you're turning, like, a huge percentage of America's young women into prostitutes, you're a criminal. And punishing you and stopping that is, like, top of our priority list because you can't degrade my country and turn my women into prostitutes.

Starting point is 02:41:04 Like, they cannot be allowed. It's not. There's no human right that says you can pimp a nation's women, young women. No. Take advantage of their misery and confusion and desperation and poverty to turn them into prostitutes. That's like, that's what an invading army does. So I'm, of course, I couldn't be more opposed to all of it, pornography, all of it. Like, I'm violently opposed to it.

Starting point is 02:41:29 I guess I would just, my only concern is that we imagine a self-described satanic cults. I'm actually way less bothered by satanic cults than I am by only fans, which is also a satanic cult. Because at least the official satanic cults call themselves what they are. It's like nice to have the opponent identify himself. But like, what does you porn call itself? Adult entertainment? No. I mean, what? It's the same thing. And the point is the same. It's to destroy our civilization. And it's working. So, and people, because that's what a civilization is, is a collection of people. So, yeah, I'm really upset about it. And I think we should, by the way, a lot of our leaders and institutions take money from these groups. Like, the ones that are legitimate. They're not a lit. There's nothing, there's nothing more legitimate about only fans, and there is about a satanic cult that lures girls online into carving slut into their arms or swalling razor blades. It's the same thing. Do you know that we're

Starting point is 02:42:33 the number one consumer of kitty porn in the world? Why? Why do you think that law enforcement agencies and trafficking, too, if I remember correctly, were the number one consumer? Why do you do you think that what what what is more precious than our well they've got real criminals like people who march on the capital with pocket constitutions in their hands and stuff like the j-sick prisoners you know they've got like white supremacy's a bigger problem they don't care obviously who's so here's an example like it's because everybody I talked to is trying to do something I can't find somebody that's not but I just had lunch very involved with my local sheriff of fucking love him and what he's trying to do.

Starting point is 02:43:21 His name's Jeff Hughes. He's talking to him. We had a meeting yesterday about this with a lot of his deputies and in a musician who's trying to bring awareness to this whole thing. And we were chatting and I was telling him about the 764 call, which is, you know, gaining, it's, you know, it's getting a lot of, it's starting to get exposure. But they hadn't heard of it yet. so I'm educating him, and he's, and he's started getting frustrated.

Starting point is 02:43:51 And, you know, I was like, why don't, why don't you have more resources? And he's like, Sean, I'm trying to get more fucking resources. He said, we live in the wealthiest county in fucking Tennessee. One of the wealthiest counties in the country, and my fucking police officers are not even in the 75th percentile of what the fuck they should be making. He said, on top of that, I can't get any of these county commissioners. to approve funding so that I can pay my police officers what they deserve, what they deserve, what the, and he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he can't get any fucking money to build a new, a new sheriff's office to get the new tech like that sky deal

Starting point is 02:44:34 company that I'm talking to you, that I was talking to you about earlier that we have one right here that patrols our fucking property. He can't, he can't get him because he's fucking commissioners. And this is, and this is, This is like every county in the country. Why is nobody allocating money to police to combat this shit? They're not at the top of the priority list. I mean, if you think about it, like, what's the point of having a civilization? Who's got the priority list?

Starting point is 02:45:06 Well, it's an employment agency. Look, government at all levels is primarily designed to employ people because that's what the votes are. I mean, I've seen this my whole life. And that's why we don't get reform is because these agencies and services are existing, not for the benefit of the people who pay for them, but for the benefit of the people who are employed by them. I just want to say this is Williamson County, Tennessee, and those fucking commissioners are going to get labeled by name on this fucking show if he doesn't get that goddamn funding. Well, this is how you change stuff. I fucking hate these people. I fucking hate these people. Well, that's holy rage. I love that.

Starting point is 02:45:47 But, like, what's the point of any of this? It's to keep the Visigoths from raping your wife. It's to keep order. That's it. That's the whole reason that, like, hunter-gatherers banded together. So they don't get eaten by the neighboring tribe or the saber-shoe tiger or whatever, right? That's the core function of any government is to protect its citizens, period. Always.

Starting point is 02:46:10 Everywhere, always. When did it stop? When did it stop here? It just got, I mean, just, like, things corrupt over time, you know? You see a ship get launched and someone breaks champagne over the bow and it slides into the ocean and then in 20 years it's got a rusty hull and it's scuttled. I mean, it's just the nature of things. They age and they corrupt.

Starting point is 02:46:29 Our bodies are the same way. So I don't, again, I don't think we should be surprised, but it's just you constantly have to scrape the barnacles off and make it work towards its design, its purpose of design. Like, why do we have this? Well, it's to protect us first, protect us first to enforce the laws that we agreed on and passed by popular consent. If you can't do that, then you're just not legitimate. Then you're here for some other reason, mostly around enrichment, and we're going to try to overthrow you. I think that's fair. I mean, what a dereliction of duty. That's why only a private equity wife could

Starting point is 02:47:03 support, only someone totally insulated from reality, physical reality, could ever support defunding the police. Making the police better? Sure, of course, always. Defunding them? Then what are we here for? To pay teachers' pensions? They're full dental. It's just insane. We've just gotten so far from what, you know, the core purpose of everything is that people are just at sea. But can I say one thing again? I do think under pressure, a lot of people greatly improve. They get clarity under pressure. It's kind of like when you're on vacation for too long, if you've ever done the peanut clodder for breakfast thing for a week, you just kind of lose track of like what you're doing, right? But when you've got a job to do and you're getting up with the sun and like,

Starting point is 02:47:49 you're on it, there's no question about what you're, do your freaking job. Yeah. And that's just the nature of people. If they're not under some kind of stress, then they lose track of their purpose and you wind up not having police. You know what I mean? I think, isn't that right? Yeah. I do. just I just I just don't understand how this shit can keep getting swept under the rub over and over and over and over. Because there's a lot of corruption, especially at the local level. I mean, you all think that everyone thinks the corruptions in Congress actually know. It's in the county supervisors, the code enforcement people. Like that's the, you know, that's the kind of, that's the corruption that affects your life. I lived in a corrupt city most of my life, Washington, D.C. And we just ended up participating in it. And like if we ever needed something government, we'd just bribe somebody. and D.C. was great because there were no pretenses at all. No one ever lecture you about good government. They were just like, oh, okay. And you just get whatever you want. You know, you just like live a normal life there if you paid for it. It wasn't even that expensive. You just had to like pay the bribe. But places like this are not like, like the corruption is way more subtle and hard to uproot, I think. Yeah, it's developers. Well, it's always developers. And can I just say a word about that? is there anyone who makes your life worse than a developer for a smaller benefit to a tinier group of people like who actually benefits from more dollar stores the people who built

Starting point is 02:49:26 the dollar stores that's who benefits and i don't know why they get to like wreck our landscape and destroy our country build shitty buildings make everything ugly desecrate god's creation and no one says anything about it and on the republican party which is almost to the point or it's just useless. And I'm going to have to oppose it because they're just, I hate them too much. But because they're such betrayers. But anyway, in the Republican Party, it's like, you a socialist? Are you from Mundani? No, not really a socialist. Just I don't want any more dollar stores. I don't want high density housing in my neighborhood. I don't want any more fucking strip malls that nobody goes to. No more karate studios and vape shops. Like, how about no?

Starting point is 02:50:06 Oh, you're socialist? You don't believe in the free market? Because you bribed a fucking county commissioner to build more garbage? You don't even live here? In a normal society, we'd, like, burn your strip ball down. You can't do that here. You can't turn my women into prostitutes. Sorry, only fans. And you can't destroy the landscape that I live in.

Starting point is 02:50:29 No. How about no? That's not crazy, is it? No, it's not, I mean, no. And you can't take on my tax dollars and then stop, refuse to do anything about child molestation. Like, the whole reason we, you, exist county commissioners is to protect my daughters from getting molested, but you won't because

Starting point is 02:50:46 why? What do you think the Republican Party is going to turn into after this? I don't know. I mean, of course, you know, it's the party. Well, it's the party in power right now. It's an amazing amount of power and amount of money. And there's a lot at stake. I mean, we shouldn't underestimate just how powerful political parties. You can be against political parties, but they run America. So, okay, there's that. So maybe you shouldn't ignore them. Maybe you should engage. I don't want to because I dislike him too much, and I dislike the people, but I'm glad that there are some people fighting for the soul of the party, whatever that means. Well, I know what it means. It means restating out loud why we're here, and we're here to make the country better for the people who live in it.

Starting point is 02:51:26 Not for a foreign country, whatever that country is, and not for your donors, but for most people or everybody kind of try at least a little bit. And that is the argument right now. Does the Republican Party exist to help its voters, every voter, actually, every citizen, or does it exist for some other boutique corrupt reason, like serving a foreign government, serving your donors? And I do think that's the argument. I think that's the argument that Trump started when he ran in 2015. It was not about make America great again, which everyone is for, who wouldn't be for that.

Starting point is 02:52:02 It's about America first, which is the idea behind MAGA. America first. Just put your country first. If you're its leader, you don't have to put America first. You're just a citizen. But if you're running the country, you have a moral obligation to put its citizens before all others. It's not a controversial idea. It's the only idea.

Starting point is 02:52:21 But there are an awful lot of Republican leaders. Every Republican voter pretty much agrees with that. But Republican leaders are, and not just elected leaders, but though certainly them, but like the whole constellation of nonprofits and publications and we're conservative. and like, okay, you can call yourself whatever you want, but what do you, what does that mean? And now we're getting to the definitional part of the argument. What are you talking about? Make America great again.

Starting point is 02:52:47 How? What are your priorities? Shut up! And they're screaming because they've been exposed as liars. And everybody knows their liars. And by the way, that's the Flentis. That's the actual Fuentes message. I'm not an expert on Fuentes.

Starting point is 02:52:59 Okay, I interviewed him. But from what I could tell, he is angry because he feels that the conservative establishment, you know, Ben Shapiro all the way up to some idiot Republican senator, all of them are telling the same lie. We're on your side, but they're not. That is, there's nothing more legitimate than that. That is true. I would know.

Starting point is 02:53:25 I've been involved for 40 years. I know every single person. That's true. They're corrupt. They don't care that much or enough or at all about you. And they have an obligation to. So that's the debate underway, and everyone on the other side would love to make it about, why do you hate the Jews? Well, I don't hate the Jews.

Starting point is 02:53:45 It's not about the Jews, whatever that is. It's about the country. And so I'm fervently hoping that the America First people win. I fervently am hoping. I think they will. Have you been around Republican donors? Have I been around Republican donors? We probably never met a Republican donor.

Starting point is 02:54:06 Oh, I'm sure. I have, but I don't know. I mean, they're not all bad, some nice people, but in general, if Trump voters knew who is paying for everything, they'd be like, wait, I have nothing in common with you at all. And now I think they're starting to figure that out. Oh, it sure seems like that. I mean, what do you think, you know, the Jen's ears are definitely not responding to the traditional bullshit.

Starting point is 02:54:35 I mean, you would mention that they're. you know, that Nick Fuentes is, they are gravitating towards that. Then you got, you know, the other side, Memdani, you know, just one mayor in New York. I mean, what, what, in your mind, what do you think? There branches on the same tree. What does it look like? I mean, look, look the same. I feel weird speaking for people 30 years younger than me or more.

Starting point is 02:55:05 What do I know? But I have actually made an intensive, longitudinal, good faith effort to find out because I matter. Plus, I've got a ton of kids in that age range. And my impression right now is that, of course, they're enraged. Both sides are enraged by people serving Israel. What? Stop with the Israel. Be quiet.

Starting point is 02:55:24 Nobody cares about Israel. Just shut up about Israel. But I don't think it's primarily about Israel. I really don't. I don't think people care that much. I know I don't care at all about Israel. I really think it's about economics. really do. I think that's what Mamdani and Fuentes have in common. And there are a bunch

Starting point is 02:55:41 people who want to pretend it's about ethnic hate or even about foreign policy. I don't believe that. I don't think the evidence shows that. I think what they're really mad about is the lack of opportunity, economic opportunity that they know they're facing. And then if you look at the debt loads, that's what I look at. Like, how in debt? How much debt does the average 30-year-old have and who does he owe it to? And it's overwhelming. It's, like, unbelievable. I had 10 grand on a credit card once.

Starting point is 02:56:10 I mean, I literally couldn't sleep over it because that was weird, you know, 25 years ago, 10 grand. I just didn't make enough money. I had to get on their job. It was fine. But debt is a huge, debt is the problem for young people. And what's so infuriating and alienating is that both parties are completely. on the side of the lenders and not the debtors. And in fact, it's a symbiotic relationship.

Starting point is 02:56:39 There is no borrowing without lending and vice versa. They are engaged in this dance and ultimately one is basically exploiting the other. That's just a fact. And no one will acknowledge that. So the Democratic Party is like, well, everyone has too much student loan debt. Who's benefiting from student loan? Well, the student loan lenders are benefiting, of course. But so are the colleges.

Starting point is 02:57:01 are being subsidized for garbage, it's garbage, right? They're getting rich from these student loans. The colleges are, and they're administrators, and then so are the lenders. But the Democrats are like, well, so because of this, we're going to get rid of student loan debt, but taxpayers are going to pay for it. Really? So you spend your life trying to pay your kids' college tuition. It gets super expensive because the lenders and the colleges are getting rich,

Starting point is 02:57:27 and then you have to pay for other people's college. Like, what? And the Republicans are just like, shut up, pay your debts. It's your fault, which is partly true. You accrue a lot of debt. You shouldn't have. On the other hand, it's not just you at fault. So here's the analogy that always occurs to me that I never hear anyone use, which is drug addiction.

Starting point is 02:57:48 So you've got the drug addict and we disapprove of drug addiction. Of course we do. Fucking drug addict. But ultimately, we don't punish the drug addict as harshly as we punish the person who sells in the drugs, do we? Who's worse? The addict or the dealer? Obviously the dealer. Look at the penalties. Look at the moral outrage. We matter at Pablo Escobar or some guy dying of a drug OD in Central Park. It's not even close. Pablo Escobar is the root of the problem. He's the one getting rich from the addict's misery. Well, I have no idea why we don't assume the same posture toward debt. Yeah. The kids shouldn't have be, you know, 50 grand in Hawk to a credit card company, but what about the credit card company? They have no role in this? They sent this kid. a credit card offer in college when he's 23? They're letting him buy DoorDash on credit,

Starting point is 02:58:37 which is very common now. Buy now, pay later. That's debt. It's disguised. No interest. But there are late fees. It's debt. And it's debt slavery. And they're enslaved by it. But the slave master never gets blamed only the slave. Tell me how that works. That is totally illegitimate. It's immoral. And it's on us as adults. I mean, I have no debt. That's rule one. No debt. I won't buy. I can't afford it. I'm not buying that. Not because I'm a virtuous person because I'm so afraid of debt because I know that it means no freedom. I'm indebted. I'm literally indebted. I'm not free. And no one ever says that. Anyone who says it's like, shut up, socialist.

Starting point is 02:59:15 But even the socialists aren't saying it. That's what blows my freaking mind. That's what you know it. It's a real conspiracy. You talk to the DSA kids. Oh, I'm so radical. I'm a DSA. Whites are bad. I'm pro trans. That's not radical, dude. That's just fucking stupid. it. You want to challenge power? Why don't you criticize the banks once in a while? What? All they want to talk about is race and gender. Where's the real power? In white supremacy, when whites are dying off? It's not a white supremacy, son. It's at Citibank and J.P. Morgan. Do you didn't know that? They themselves are tools of actual power, left and right. The right is way off into libertarian economics. It's the free market. There isn't a free market in this country.

Starting point is 02:59:55 period, hasn't been in my lifetime, for sure. There definitely is it now. It's a monopoly economy, obviously. And then the left is way up and all this other garbage, meant to divide the population against itself to keep them from challenging actual power. And I'm not for revolution, but we're going to get a revolution if we don't readjust a little bit soon. So I would say let's hold lenders at least as accountable as we hold debtors because that's

Starting point is 03:00:24 fair and obvious. And in fact, I think lenders are way more culpable than borrowers. And let's take a good look at the interest rates. No society has ever allowed usury at the scale that we do. Oh, shut up. You can't talk about user rate. Why? Because you're benefiting from it. Fuck you. I'm not afraid of you. Like, are you? No. What's the top rate for a payday loan in the United States? I'll tell you it's 600% annually. 600%. That's legal. Yes. Holy shit. And why don't we care? Because it's just black people. It's the guest. or, you know, it's poor people. It's not just black people.

Starting point is 03:00:57 Of course, it's literally not. But in your mind, you're like, oh, that's pathetic, a payday loan. Okay, but that's a human being. That's a fellow citizen, and we don't care at all. 600% annual interest. That's a desperate human being. Why is that allowed? Why is it so hard to say, how about no?

Starting point is 03:01:12 The same reason you can't make my daughter into a prostitute, only fans, because it's disgusting. And if we can't say it's disgusting, at the very least, before we even say it's illegal, how about it's just bad? then we've lost the most basic defense mechanism that allows any society to continue. You have to be able to say, no, that's too big a threat to us. No, Satanism is not the same as Christianity. You can't have a Satanist, you know, crash in the state capital or whatever they call it, shrine to Satan. We're not doing that because that's self-destruction.

Starting point is 03:01:45 That's suicide disguised as freedom. So anyway, we just lost the ability to recognize the truth. threats to ourselves and our children and our grandchildren in our nation. And one of the greatest threats, maybe you could argue it, but definitely one of the greatest threats is debt. And people are getting rich from debt. I know them personally. And so do you. We call it finance. That's the name of it. Finance. What does finance mean loading money to people at interest? There's a place for that. I don't think that it's inherently evil to loan money to people. I've loaned money to a million people personally. I never get a pet, but whatever. Anyway, the point is it's not inherently

Starting point is 03:02:24 evil, but the details matter. At what rate? Who are you loaning it to? What are the terms? There has to be some boundary or else it's just pure exploitation of your fellow human beings, your fellow citizens. And rather than rein it in, we celebrate the people who do it. And we wind up with it. The entire economy is based on what? Finance and real estate. And neither one is a productive industry. One is loaning money and interest, and the other is just reselling dirt. Okay, that is not going to last. That's not, and then tech. You know, I don't, I complain about tech a lot. I don't, you know, I'm worried about the implications of emerging technologies that, you know, obviously I've talked about a lot. But the idea of tech, building something new, creating

Starting point is 03:03:06 something, of course, that's, that's what we're supposed to do as people make something new. So that's like inherently more legitimate. Real estate and finance are components of a healthy economy. If you find that they are the economy, you're going to get what you deserve, dude. And nobody is saying that. I don't know why. Well, I do know why because the real estate and finance lobbies are way more powerful than the normal person lobby, which doesn't exist. But young people, anyway, I'm far afield, but the point is young people are being destroyed economically and they have no opportunity, they're being disrespected and lectured and given a whole pharmacopoeia of every kind of drug to keep them passive so they don't foment a

Starting point is 03:03:55 revolution, so they stay in their little cages, which is sinister, it's lethal, it's homicidal actually, kills the spirit at very least, but not just that. They can't own anything. And the idea that you're going to roll out with a straight face, a 50-year mortgage, which is literally the opposite of what we need, who benefits from a 50-year mortgage? Well, the guy collecting 50 years of interest. Who loses in that deal? The guy who doesn't own his house. He's a renter for 50 years. I don't know, man.

Starting point is 03:04:30 I got, I'm probably way off because everybody I respect thinks that that is a fucking horrible idea. 50-year mortgage? I think it's a good idea. How? Because I don't know anybody that has held onto their home for 30 years and paid it all down. I think that this county, for example, real estate prices have gone through the fucking roof. A lot of people can't afford to live here anymore. I think that you can build wealth through real estate.

Starting point is 03:05:00 I think you could do, I think you could use the 50 year mortgage to get yourself in to a market that's appreciating at a rapid pace. start to build your wealth, sell that, take the equity with you and build it that way. There's no question you could do that. But that's just how I think. And so I think it's a good thing that 50-year mortgages are here because it gets the payment down. It gets people to be able to afford a home.

Starting point is 03:05:29 Yeah, if they pay it for 50 years, they're going to lose their fucking ass. But if they play their cards right and they actually study, if they play their cards right, then they can get in, they can gain the equity, they'll gain a lot more equity in certain markets than they will pay an interest, and then they can get the fuck out and roll that into something else that's actually a... There's absolutely no question that people can parlay credit into real money. There's no doubt about that. And I know a million people who've done it, and every real estate investor does that. That's what they do.

Starting point is 03:06:03 And they're good at it. I would just say two things that make me concerned, very concerned about it. One is, that's a very sophisticated game, actually. It is to be, you know, to take leverage and turn it into actual wealth. Like, you've got to know what you're doing. It's beyond my reach mentally. I'm not smart enough to do that. I'd be afraid to play with that. A.

Starting point is 03:06:29 B, I think the value of a home is the ownership of it. Like, that's why it's better than renting. because of the psychological rewards and because it reorients your thinking toward permanence and like I own a piece of this like owning a piece of dirt is just psychologically

Starting point is 03:06:51 a completely different experience than not owning it. It vests you in the country. You have something to defend. This is mine. It's not much, but I own it. You can't take it away from me and I will take a stand on its behalf.

Starting point is 03:07:06 Okay. And I know in my own life, so I don't think, I didn't own a home, actually own a home. I bought a house at like 24, 23, 24, because it was a different world, bought a super cheap house on credit with a mortgage. And I've owned houses ever since then. So like a long time over 35, 35 years. But I didn't actually own a house until I was like in my late 40s. And I signed a new deal with Fox. And I was like, I'm going to pay off the mortgage.

Starting point is 03:07:34 And I called my smart. friend who's like, that's so stupid. You know the tax advantages in mortgage interest? Of course, I knew that because I had a mortgage my whole life. And I was like, I don't care. So you're going to lose $50,000 a year just by owning it. And I was like, so that means the system is set up to penalize me for not being in debt. I have to pay for the privilege of not being in debt to a bank? Who's writing these laws, the banks? But I did it anyway because I'm a lunatic. and I'm like, I don't care, all I care about is the psychological benefit. And the psychological benefit was so much more profound than I ever anticipated to owning the house.

Starting point is 03:08:12 Even though I still had steep property taxes, you don't own anything in this country because you always owe somebody something. And if you stop paying them, they take it away for you. So that's not actual ownership. But it was a lot closer to ownership. And, oh my gosh, I was just like, that's when I really went crazy when I owned it. I was like, come and take it, bitch. I'd pay 50 grand just for the peace of mind.

Starting point is 03:08:32 Oh, 100%. And not just the peace of mind, but like the swelling of power, I felt like this, and it was not even an impressive house, really, but I was like, this is my house. I don't take any, I don't pay anybody. Of course, I was paying brilliance in property taxes, the stupid corrupt D.C. government. So it was kind of a fake. It was a facade, but it was still real to me. I just feel like getting out of debt was the biggest psychological change that ever happened to me, really.

Starting point is 03:09:02 It's like, I'm my own. Man, I own my house. I think small, okay? That's why I'm not in business. But it made a big difference. It was. It was. That's when I started, like, telling the truth so much they fired me.

Starting point is 03:09:17 I paid off my mortgage. It's like, yeah, I have no mortgage. What are you going to do about it? Fire me? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I just, I don't think it's the best answer, the 50-year mortgage.

Starting point is 03:09:31 I didn't, you know, I don't, I would. rather than just lower the fucking interest rates, but... What if the bottom drops out the real estate markets? I mean, I think long-term real estate, I mean, obviously, that's all I do is, you know, I like real estate, so I buy real estate. But, you know, it's cyclical. So, like, there are times when, you know, what you thought, it just happened to me, actually, um, on something.

Starting point is 03:09:57 But anyway, in the last year, uh, yeah, the value goes down sometimes. It's not just up. So, like, if you've got a 50-year note, like, I don't know, you could be more underwater than we already are. Definitely could be. Yeah. I mean, that's happened to me. I didn't have to sell, but, I mean, I've definitely owned houses where I owed more than the houses were. Not a great feeling.

Starting point is 03:10:23 You don't really feel like this is an ownership society when you couldn't sell the house for the amount that you owe on it. Yeah. Yeah. feels are precarious though I will say it does drive you to work harder that's for damn sure what do you got coming up Tucker I know we got we got to wrap it up soon because you got a dinner man I talk too much are you coming up I don't know you know some kind of how's your new documentary meeting with destiny uh well we just did a documentary on Thomas crooks which I thought was really really interesting and uh and very unsatisfactory

Starting point is 03:11:00 and the responses we got from the FBI. So I'm really concerned about the FBI. I'll just say that. Very concerned. I don't understand exactly what's going on, but... I don't think anybody understands what... It's concerning, and I know people who work there, and I've spoken to them, and I'm not against them,

Starting point is 03:11:15 but, like, what is this? And I can't get an answer. I feel away about a number of FBI investigations in progress. Like, I don't know what this is, and I'm definitely unsettled by it a lot. I hope... You know, I hope I find out and hope everything's okay, but I'm worried about that. And we're doing it.

Starting point is 03:11:36 We just commissioned another documentary. I had, we did documentaries at Fox, and so I worked with documentary guys who specialize in making documentaries, one of whom lives here in Nashville, who worked for me for years, and we just hired him again to make documentaries. So I know a lot of people in that world, they made a million documentaries, and I love the form. I thought it was going away. I thought no one would ever watch another documentary.

Starting point is 03:11:58 Dude, are you serious? I know. I know. Well, what do I know? I mean, I'm not, I've not been good at calling changes in media. Like, I thought the podcast was like the dumbest thing I ever heard. I told Rogan to his face. I was like, I did not think this would work, dude.

Starting point is 03:12:09 Four hours of talking? Like, who would watch that? The whole world? So, but anyway, I personally thought the documentaries were a dying art. My father made a million documentaries. I have them on film cans in my barn. So they've been around a long time. And I love making.

Starting point is 03:12:28 making them and writing them and voicing them. And I just love the whole experience. So we are doing, we're doing a ton of documentaries. And we're doing a multi-part documentary on the FBI and some. Is that the next one coming out? No. When's that coming out? A bunch of different parts.

Starting point is 03:12:44 I, we just, I mean, I just commissioned it really yesterday. Oh, man. That's going to be a good. I think it's going to be good. If, not to brag, but you, I mean, the documentaries are the product of, you know, I decided what we're doing documentaries about obviously um i'm involved in documentaries but if i'm being honest and the crooks thing i brought i got that material on crooks myself and brought that to our guys but but really we have a couple people a guy called charles cougar scooter downy

Starting point is 03:13:15 i mean these guys are like i could never do what they do they're so freaking good it's incredible and um charlie cougar especially is like one of the most talented people i've ever who i've worked with for 10 years, at least, is one of the smartest people I've ever met, way smarter than I am. So it's such a thrill to watch that. Do you pick the subject, man? Yeah, yeah, I picked the subject. Yeah, of course. I picked the subject.

Starting point is 03:13:40 And I used to write the documentaries. Like, when I was at Fox, I always wrote the documentary. I'm a writer, so I wrote all the documentaries. But he's so good that the Crooks documentary, which we just did, and I voiced it, you know, I do the voice over and sit in my bar and we have a family library in our bar and I sit in the library and voice it. and he brought it to me. We had talked a lot about it, and I brought him the material, and then he followed up on it. But he basically did the whole thing, and he wrote the whole thing, and it was like better

Starting point is 03:14:08 than I could have done. And I ad libbed like eight words that I changed, but I mean, I read it cold. That's how good he is. So I just want to say that out loud, man, this guy, I said kid, he's not a kid anymore. He's a father. But it's just incredible to watch people. I always thought he was smart, obviously, but he's just become a true force. I don't think his name is known by anybody.

Starting point is 03:14:35 Probably doesn't want it. No, and I probably shouldn't have said his name, but he's an amazing person. And so was Scooter Downing and this other guy. So, and a wonderful guy, too. So, yeah, I'm super psyched. It's nice, I will say one thing about getting older, the bad part's taking a leak in the all the night, but the good part is you end up knowing who the good people are. Like, I've worked at every network.

Starting point is 03:14:54 You show up at these networks, and it's like, you have. with this big staff, you have no idea, who's honest, who's a liar, who's talented, who's not, who cares, who doesn't, like, you just don't know anything. And then after a while, over years and move from this place to that place, like, you really identify some of the most impressive people in the world. It's just absolutely crazy. Like, the people we have working for us now, every single person I would have stay at my house, and most of them have, and every single person I would trust with my checking account. I mean, there's every single person I believe, every single person is a good person. It's just incredible. I hope this moment for our, for our company,

Starting point is 03:15:31 Z companies, I hope it never changes because I just, I love everyone. We've had so much drama over all these years. And now we're so the place where like everyone is great. Well, I'm happy for him. Oh, dude. It's the best. Good for you. Good for you. Well, thank you for having me. Sorry I talked so long. Thank you for your guns. Can we just say one last thing as a Coda? the 357 lever gun is the greatest gun ever. I mean, probably not if you're fighting in Afghanistan. But if you're, you know, shooting steel or bowling pins in your backyard, there is no more fun gun than a 357 or I shoot 30 out of mine because I'm cheap.

Starting point is 03:16:11 That is just the greatest gun. No recoil, dead nuts accurate, fun to shoot, cheap ammo. It's real. It's not a 22. It's like a thump. Like everything about it. Yeah. Do you agree with that?

Starting point is 03:16:25 Oh, fuck, yeah. I love it. I love it. I love it. Next time you come, we'll have some fly rods and hopefully some fish in that damn pond. Catch a large mouth on a fly rod. And if you think that fly fishing is like some faggiest, a feat sport with your little hatches and your number 18 midges. I love fly fish.

Starting point is 03:16:46 Oh, dude. Throw a popper across a farm pond and a large mouth hits it or even better a small mouth. It's like, wow. Yeah. Well, Tucker, thanks again, man. It's always good to see you. God bless. God bless.

Starting point is 03:17:01 See you.

Shawn Ryan Show - #256 Tucker Carlson - Epstein’s Emails, Political Blackmail and What We Already Knew All Along

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