She's On The Money - Deinfluencing

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

We are most definitely in the age of the influencer, but have you noticed the ‘deinfluencing’ trend? Join us on the show today as we unpack what deinfluencing is, why it has skyrocketed over the past few years, if deinfluencers can be trusted and SO much more. Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for people who want to be de-influenced out of impulse buying some trending product. My name is Bex Side and with me is Victoria Devine. Hello, my friend. Hello. You've mixed up the intro. I like it.

I think it's quite inclusive. It is quite inclusive. But we all want to be de-influenced. We want to be de-influenced. It's all over TikTok. It's all over Instagram. It's everywhere, this trend or this concept of de-influencing. And I'm here for it.

Like I want to ruin absolutely everything for everybody. So like 10 out of 10, let's go. It's very hard work to say de-influencing, de-influencing. I'm going to say that right for the rest of the episode. I don't know if there's a right or a wrong. I think it's a made up word. So you can do whatever you want with it. Oh, sick. Okay. Yeah, great. I'll call it literally anything and hopefully everyone can follow. All right, carry on. But for anyone that's opened a social media

app in the past 12 months, you would have seen the de-influencing trend. And for anyone who hasn't seen it or still doesn't really understand it, kind of like me, what is de-influencing? So it's like the opposite of influencing. Gotcha. Which kind of makes sense because it says de at the front of influencing. So it's kind of self-descriptive, but we all know that, quote, influencers, right? So that's the term used for people predominantly on social media who use their platforms to sell products or influence their audience to purchase them, which usually results in monetary compensation for the influencer. Now, it would be amiss of me to not admit right here that I am an influencer. Hello.

I'm not the biggest influencer. In fact, I'm a really terrible influencer. Half the time I am de-influencing on my platform just because it's obviously not 100% of what I do, but I do have a number of partnerships, which is why I feel so passionate about this space, I suppose, because I'm so aggressive on what I will and won't accept because I feel such a level of, I guess, responsibility to my audience that I'm like, well, if I don't use that product and I've never used that product, I'm not just going to get it in and try it and then be like, Bec, you should buy it because to me, that's a massive responsibility, but also the fact that people trust my opinion, like, oh, it's terrifying. It's a lot of responsibility.

Exactly. So de-influencing is the exact opposite of that. So rather than telling you to purchase a product, it's where people are influencing you not to buy something and saying, hey, here's all the reasons why you probably don't need the new X, Y, Z. I love that. So it actually originated on TikTok to combat overconsumption, but it's now formed different branches where you might see someone really breaking down like a viral product or something on why they tried it and why they would never buy it again, or at times de-influencing you not to buy a certain type of thing, but buy something else instead. So they might go, hey, cool. So

this is trending, but here's the $5 version, 10 out of 10. Why bother getting the branded one? You're just going to ruin it anyway, right? Wow. That's really like doing God's work. I love that. I think it's so important because at the moment, like Bec, something, obviously this is not going to sit well with a couple of people, but I don't care. Being in this influencer space, right? Like I get sent a lot of email pitches from people being like, hey, here's this client that has this brand. If you would like to work with them, let us know and we can send some more information out. Right. And 99% of the time I'm like, no, no thanks. So I get to see all these different brands. It might be like, you know, furniture companies, it might be clothing companies,

it might be restaurants that are opening that say, hey, like we'd love to work with influencers, rah, rah. At the moment, regulation, as it should be, says that anytime you accept a gifted product, even if you don't get payment, you need to disclose that. And because I see all of these pictures and I go, oh, okay, restaurant A is going to be, you know, giving away a free dinner for four people to, you know, promote their new business, which is genius. Like it's quite smart strategy like influencer marketing is very powerful right at the end of the day I don't think we're saying oh influencers shouldn't exist Rara no absolutely not because I kind of like the market like as much as like it's very biased because I'm in it I really like it because Beck if I adore you

and then I get to see you posting particular products I'm like well if Beck likes it I'm sure I will like it yes do you know what I mean totally smart for brands smart for them like everybody's happy but do you know how many times over the last few months I've seen companies that I either have worked with or are going to work with or have seen their pictures of and these influencers are not tagging it not branding it they're just like oh I'm at the restaurant and you're like can you please put your hashtag gifted or like the paid partnership thing on or they're like hey I got these products you know and they're just styling it in their home or whatever and I go yeah but like I know it was free so if you could just yeah let your community know that

that would be great yes I cannot tell you how many of these things are happening like I just it grinds my gears because I look at it and I go that's so unfair for them not to disclose that they're you know gifted a product yeah mate if I get gifted a product I'm all over my Instagram being like look at this free thing I got guys yeah like I got sent a baby bouncer and a baby carrier recently and I was like guys look at this baby beyond sent me their cool baby carrier here's my cat in it that's all my stories right now obviously not while the episode is live but like maybe not anymore I'll save it in the highlights or something but like I'm so stoked when brands are like hey we think you'd love our product and I'm like actually that was on my list

of things to buy I would love that like perfect exactly money win yes but like shouldn't we be proud of the partnerships we have why are you hiding it why are you being a little bit sneaky What's going on here? I can't trust it. Can't trust it. So always feel like if somebody is posting something, you're like, is that paid? Ask. Yeah. Be like, hey, is this gifted? Oh my gosh, controversial. They'll probably block you, so probably don't do that, honestly. Is it kind of a new term, de-influencing? No, I don't think so. Like if we consider de-influencing, it's obviously encouraging you not to buy certain products. I wouldn't say that that concept is new, but the terminology around it is. Gotcha. So, hashtag de-influencing. Looked

it up before. Over 880 million views on TikTok in the past 18 months. Before that, it just had 2 million views, which is obviously a lot of views, but like not nearly as many as 880 million. Yes. Jeez, that's heaps. Okay. So, it's really exploded this year and I don't really understand why we need someone online to tell us, you know, not to buy it. I guess it makes sense. if you're being fed all this information and all these ads and all this kind of stuff, I guess you do need it. But is there a reason that it's been such a big conversation and why it's so relevant right now? I think there are a few reasons. I mean, first things first, I do disagree with you a little bit. Like I think we need it because social media is just becoming

a sales platform if we don't have people like this or people who want to be just pushing their organic content. Like, please don't get me wrong. I keep referencing myself and I don't mean to. it's not because I'm egotistical, it's just because I live in, I guess, this sphere. But my favorite people that I follow aren't pushing products. They're just posting pictures of their kids, pictures of their cats, like what they get up to on the weekends. And I feel like there's actually a push towards an expectation that influencers are more organic than they have ever been. Like, do you follow someone back nowadays because they have a beautifully curated Instagram feed? Or do you follow them because they're real and kind of funny?

Real and kind of funny always. forever. I feel like we're moving away from these carefully crafted Instagram feeds and like beautifully styled TikTok videos to just people who are relatable because we're over that sales pitch. And I think having come out of COVID, everybody's feeling the pressure of the cost of living crisis, but then overconsumption is a massive thing. And I think it's pretty sexy when people are kind of calling you out being like, Beck, you don't need 12 new tops just because you saw them on TikTok. And like, that's a bit rich because how many times do I come on this pod. I'm like, oh, this brand new thing that I've bought. I got it on TikTok. You're just like,

Victoria, like I am a marketer's dream. Like you want me in your like marketing pool because I'll buy it. Like I'll be convinced 3am. I'm like, oh, squishy toy. I need this thing that I'll never ever use. It's going to change my life. I'm going to be a better human because of it. So I think it's a huge problem because there are a lot of people like me. We're also way more aware these days of who makes our clothes and where our clothes come from and how many wears we're going to be getting from each purchase. Recently, we talked about girl math. And one of the main things on that, I guess, girl math trend was really justifying your purchases and going, well, how many wears am I going to get out of this? Can I girl math this beautiful t-shirt away?

Like, oh, it's a hundred dollars, but I'm definitely going to get a hundred wears out of this so now that t-shirt is a dollar so obviously i don't like the concept of girl math but obviously we are trying harder to justify our purchases now and after you've done an online shopping haul like let's be honest you might wear an item one or two times and then think you're doing the right thing by taking it to the op shop because smart genius yes but 57 of our discarded clothes actually end up in landfill because they don't get sold at the op shop oh that's a lot That's a lot. It's more than half, Bec.

Production of clothes, you know, we actually did a whole episode on fast fashion. So go back to that for obviously an even deeper dive on that. But it's something that She's On The Money is really passionate about. But production of clothes contributes to around 8 to 10% of the world's carbon emissions. So by having D influencers encourage us to buy less or shop more mindfully, it's actually helping with overconsumption. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

Honestly, pretty sexy. Yeah. Back to me being absolutely influenced by everybody always. The hashtag TikTok made me buy it has more than 71 billion views. People share things they've impulse bought. Now, I've never made a video like that. If I had started making videos like that, I'd double those views for them. Because there's just so many things that I have been influenced to buy.

That's not good. Not good. That is terrible. This is why I need the de-influencers. I'm all about it. So I said a few things. Another thing that I have thought of is reviews. So you might see influencers telling you what they wouldn't buy again. And it's often a product that went viral on social media. That's a money win because you get a review of a product without ever using it or spending your money on it. Now, making this about me again, I use TikTok all the

time to do research. I wonder if other people are the same as this because it's no secret now, I'm having a baby and I'm looking for a pram. And there are in Australia, I did not realize this, Bec, it's like a cult, like the mummy-like circuit. Right. Like there are like two prams they like and that's it. Oh. Like I didn't realize they're really expensive. Like they're like the fancy prams. And you're like, wait, are these things actually that good or are they just expensive? Right. Because surely. Surely. It's wheels. It's a little thing. Exactly. It's a Because you see every baby shop and they've got like tens of tens of prams lined up and you're like, surely. Anyway, so no, going on TikTok has helped me realize I don't want either of those

prams because they might have cult status, but they actually don't have the functionalities I want. So those reviews have really helped. And I feel like historically we went to YouTube, but that's really long form content. Whereas I can watch like five or 10 different two or three minute videos and be like, all right, I know I don't want that now because it's like different mums who have done it, like whatever it is. And I'm sure you could do that with a million different things. Prams is just what I have been looking at at the moment. I don't know who I've become. Like I'm embarrassed. I'm scared. What is next? This is a really slippery slope. Like, am I going to cut all my hair off? Like, we don't know. I think you legally have to. I think I need

the mum bob. I think you'd legally have to have a mum bob as soon as you give birth. Maybe you be de-influenced out of the mum bob because you have been de-influenced out of the pram situation so that seems like a really good thing i'm actually glad it's i'm gonna look up on tiktok reasons not to cut my hair all right moving back to the story that we are curating here a recent study from meta so they're the people who own instagram and facebook they showed after seeing a product advertised on social media by an influencer get this 87 percent of people surveyed either followed the brand on socials, visited their website, or made a purchase. Oh, wow. Very effective.

That is the power of influencing. That is why it is so important for brands now to be dabbling in this space. And I feel like if you go back five or 10 years, people would say, influencing is dead. It's going to be a dying, like, you know, marketing stream. It's not going to stand up. I think it's just becoming more and more lucrative. But what people are expecting from their influencers now isn't just them to parade around in a really cute bikini, right? I feel like that was what Instagram was 10 years ago. Now they're like, we want people with substance who have real opinions on things and we follow them, but they also sell product. So I feel like now we have different expectations, but the influencer space is not going anywhere from my

perspective. So what we've learned from Meta is basically that we need dinner influencers, Bec, Like we desperately need them and we need them to make sure that we're not impulse purchasing absolutely everything we see on social media, because obviously that's what's going on. Yes. Okay. All right. So the third thing I've come up with is pseudo authenticity, which is obviously meaning fake authenticity, but pseudo social relationships come into this as well.

So when influencers are super organic on social media and they share basically everything about their life. You immediately go, oh, my friend Beck. Wait, no, they're not my friend. I just follow them on Instagram. Like you create what's called a pseudo-social relationship with them, which means you trust them inherently more than anybody else that you see online. Obviously, this is where it's not coming from a good place because what you have created, it's like when, I don't know if you've done this Beck, but like you download a dating app. This hasn't happened to me in 10 plus years, don't worry. You download a dating app and then you start talking to someone and you're like this person is the one like they are so nice

because you know what you've done you've taken their words and you've put your own tone on top of it yeah and so you've decided what tone that's coming from like if they say oh I'm having a good day you're like oh my gosh that's so nice of him to say that I was having a good day like you've just decided in your head what the meaning of all these things are yes and that's really dangerous it's a slippery slope because you trust them even more. And then you know what the worst part is, you then go on a date and you're like, who is this? So obviously that pseudo-social situation means that you're more likely to jump on the bandwagon without questioning it too much. But the other thing with this, Bec, is pseudo-authenticity. So I said you've got this

pseudo-relationship with your influencer and that makes sense, but then pseudo-authenticity, because do you know what? Marketing departments in big retail companies, they spend millions each year they know about this de-influencing like trend or whatever we're going to call it and essentially it might actually be marketing companies going hey beck we want you to make a video about why you wouldn't buy this product and then recommend our product as a like as a good alternative right so instead it could actually be a brand jumping on the trend of de-influencing by masking something as de-influencing when actually it's not so for example they might tell you not to buy certain products, as I explained before, but then go, oh, why don't you buy ours instead?

Ha ha ha, way better. So similarly, they might hire someone with a social media following to do that for them. So like they might hire me or someone and be like, hey, and I never would accept this, let's be honest. I'm such a pest. No one wants to work with me. It makes sense. But they might hire someone like me and go, oh, V, like this is the style of video that we would like you to make. because the way content happens is they don't just go, all right, well, let's pretend it's coffee. They don't just send you the coffee, Beck. And they go, all right, here, have this coffee, sell it to your audience. They go, hey, Beck, a few weeks before the video comes out, we're going to send you the coffee. Here's a brief. This is kind of the video we want you to

make. Here are all the additional points that we need you to hit in this video. So could you talk about its color? Could you talk about the cup it comes in and how comfy the cup is to hold? Could you, you know, do all these other things, then I would make my video and I would send it back and be like, hey, Beck, here's the video that I made. Do you like it? They might go, oh, cut out this bit and this bit. And can you do a voiceover of this? Also, can you make the caption of this content this? You go, yeah, no worries. And then they select the date that it goes live on your platform. So it might feel super authentic. And if you're working with genuine, super authentic, I guess, influencers, they might go, no, don't like your brief, get that in the bin.

like it's a grace though that is not available to many because if you're in a situation where you're a full-time influencer and it is your full-time income if someone comes to you and says hey beck we'll give you three thousand dollars to make a video are you going to then argue with them over the scripting probably not yeah so i think it's really important to remember that these things do happen and how it works and maybe we'll do a whole episode i think people would be so pervy, how do influencers make money? Like I'll just break it down and be like, all right, here's my media kit. Here's what we do. Here's how it works. This is what, you know, on average an influencer charges for an Instagram post. If they have this many followers, here's

what they charge for a video. Here's what they charge for a TikTok. This is the process so that you kind of understand the background of that. Cause I think it's important for you to be completely across it. And that's probably why going back to the start of this episode, I'm so aggressively passionate about disclosure yeah because I'm like if I've been gifted it you will know I've been gifted it and the amount of times I post something and people like oh you didn't say that was gifted I'm like no no that's because I bought it with my cold hard cash like I bought that myself so sometimes you'll actually see in my posts not sponsored just good like because I want to share it yeah because I'm like I love this I have ADHD I live on the internet and

I'm a psycho. Like it's really fun, but I think it's so important to understand why things are done, how they're done. And it feels a little bit reminiscent, this whole, I guess, pseudo authenticity of that greenwashing episode we did recently, or not recently, it feels recently, but it would have been 12 months ago about the investment world, about how they greenwash, you know, their product to make it a little bit more attractive to you so that you think it fits your ethics and values and I think we'll actually start to see a rise in pseudo-authentic posts of this kind which is why we have to be so careful about being able to identify them. Okay complex complex. But pervy right? Like who doesn't want to know what the influencers are making? Yeah this

is juicy I'm loving this episode. I think let's go to a quick break and when we come back we'll talk about if we can or cannot trust de-influencers. BRB. We are back and V, you did get me on board in the first half. I'm glad because you said, I'm not sure we need this. And I was like, sit down, Beckeroo, we do. I think we do. But also then you mentioned that some de-influencers are being told to de-influence so that they can recommend another product.

So how do we know? Like how do we know? Well, because earlier we learned the stats that, quote, TikTok made me buy it has over 71 billion views. Like obviously the marketing companies, they're going to spend some money on understanding these trends and if they realise that de-influencing is a good one, they're going to be like,

how do we integrate this strategy into our marketing plan? Like have you seen how many businesses are now on TikTok actually creating funny content? Actually, do you know who my favourite person to follow or favourite, is it a group or a company? You'll be able to tell me in a hot second. I love following New South Wales police on TikTok. Oh.

Are you following them? I'm not following them. Oh, my gosh, they're the best. They are savage. I'll show you more videos later, but we do need to talk about whether we can trust de-influencers or not. Yes. I mean, I don't think de-influencing is that different to influencing. They're still trying to sway your purchase decisions. I guess, take the same care as you would when you consume any type of influencer content. Importantly, ask yourself

the question, does it feel authentic? Are you feeling the need to impulse purchase something because of this video or if they actually just like absolutely sacrificed a product and then you're like, where do I go from here? And you don't know. They're probably genuinely being a dear influencer in that situation if they've not given an alternative. And then people online are holding brands accountable nowadays, which I think is important. Yes. And can spread the word to the masses. It's giving consumers back the power, I think. Like how many times have you seen videos pop up on your feed where they're like, hey, here's some terrible customer service I got from a brand. Here are all the email replies that I got and I'm still not happy.

So I'm making a TikTok and you just go far out Brussels sprout. Like this is going wild. It also really allows you to reconsider an impulse purchase. How many times on this podcast, Bec, maybe we're the original D influencers. It's us. It's you and me. How many times have I said put 24 hours between you and your spending? Like you don't, we don't have to say no. We just go, how about tomorrow? Yeah. So put some time between the purchase that you're making and allow yourself to reconsider an impulse purchase. Obviously, if you listened to the first half of this episode, no, you didn't. I'm definitely someone who puts 24 hours between me and my spending. But it may make scrolling on your phone a much cheaper experience. If 87% of people start

following a brand on socials or visit the website or make a purchase, the mindless act of scrolling and watching videos actually becomes a really expensive habit. The app's free, but how much is it costing you? Oh, that's a good way to frame it. De-influencing in its truest form helps break up the content getting you to impulse buy. And importantly, I don't think that you should feel guilty if you impulse purchase from time to time. It's not your fault.

Sometimes we really do need that weird cat brush. Exactly. You're allowed it for now, man. Do you know how many random things I've purchased and they actually spark joy in my life? It's terrifying. My friend bought me this little duck that you push its head down and it brings you a toothpick and it's the best thing that- Oh my gosh.

I actually bought you something from TikTok the other day and I've given Jess her one, but I haven't given you yours and I meant to bring it in today. But yeah, that was a TikTok purchase as well. Oh my God. But I know you're going to love it. I'm really, really excited. Thank you so much. You don't even know what it is.

Don't thank me yet. I don't know, but I know I'm going to love it, whatever it is. Yeah, 10 out of 10. Bavie, as someone with a social media following and you have a level of influence, do you think this new trend kind of undermines the role of an influencer? No, I think it holds them more accountable. Yeah. At the end of the day, like I think content should be organic. I feel very uncomfortable with the idea that people exist solely on social media to sell products. And that comes from the very entitled position of not being in that position as a quote influencer. Like

I hate the term influencer. Like it makes me so ick. Like if people are like, what do you do for work, honest to God, I'll always be like, oh, I just work in finance. I don't want to talk about it. It's so weird. And then when you do follow me and you actually know me, please don't bring up the videos that I post on internet. Like, oh, so awkward. They're like, oh, I saw that video you did for Nivea the other day. And I'm like, yeah, it was a really good video. But now can we just talk about how I put my skincare on? Because I do like that product, but now it feels weird that we're talking about it. I can't imagine what that feels like, but hey, listen. You'll get there. Oh, you'll get there. Yeah, 100%. I want all your unsolicited recommendations.

Like, do you know why Friday drinks Beck's Broke Tips goes off? Because everybody wants your advice. They're like, oh, Beck, this is a legit tip. That is so nice. They're all mostly, I'm not saying that people that write in, but my ones are usually useless, but I'm very, very grateful. No, they're not. You've taught me a lot. You've taught me a lot. Oh, that's nice. So V, at the end of the day, what would you like people to take away from this episode? Impulse purchasing can happen anywhere, not just on social media. Like the other day, I nearly bought an inflatable spa from Bunnings because it was right there on the way out. I didn't buy it though. So that's pretty good for me. I'm proud of you. Thank you. But I will be buying an inflatable spa at some

point. It just feels like something I need in my life. You need it. Yeah. Do you want to come over and go in my inflatable spa if I got it? Not proud. Actually, I'm disappointed that you didn't buy the spa. I wanted to do more research if I'm being honest. Oh, okay. Then proud again. Thank you. Thank you. But I think we all should be taking a moment before making any type of purchase anyway, and obviously putting 24 hours between you and your spending and consider if you actually need it. Stick to your budget. That's really sexy. Sometimes it doesn't feel that way, but I promise budgeting is sexy and don't punish yourself too much if you actually do do it. Yep. Who cares? Move on. Yep. Absolutely. No point sacrificing ourselves

right now when it was a mistake we made ages ago. Doesn't matter. So I think just being aware of the world as well is quite important. So like the people we follow online do influence the way that we think and feel and act and behave. And I think that it's really important to reflect on that and go, well, are the people I'm following actually adding value? Or every time I go on social media, do I feel a little bit trash about the decisions that I'm making? Like at that point, I go, it's probably time to unfollow. Like you don't necessarily need to be following someone all the time. Like they might've changed their content and you now don't like it anymore. They might've gone too commercial. Like don't feel bad if you unfollow someone. Cause I think making

sure that your feeds are really authentic to you is also really important because how many times do we get swept up in peer pressure? Oh my gosh, I must need the iPhone 15. I must. Everybody else just getting it i don't need it my phone works 10 out of 10 yeah so i think it's just really important to take a moment again don't punish yourself if you're doing it it doesn't matter yeah i agree with that great advice fee i think it's a really good place to leave it for today i think it's the best place to leave it let's go i hope you guys have the best weekend we'll see you on friday for a friday drinks but till then love you bye bye guys the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your

individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision if you do choose to buy a financial product read the pds tmd and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289.