She's On The Money - Economic Empowerment & Gender Equality with Moana Hope

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

What an incredibly special episode we have for you today in celebration of International Women's Week. Victoria is joined by the incredible Moana Hope, athlete, broadcaster and absolute legend! Get fired up as they talk about overcoming economic adversity, the power of a side hustle, the prevalence of homelessness in older women, the gender pay gap, and even a brief little intro on how to start your investment journey cause VD can't help herself! You do not want to miss this deeply moving conversation. Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's On The Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. This week, I am super excited to announce a brand new co-host, just for this week, my friend, the gorgeous Moana Hope. Mo, welcome to She's On The Money. Financial advice and you brought me on here? Yeah, I mean, I just felt like it was fair. I've been on your show a couple of times. You haven't come on mine. I'm coming on yours again. No, I actually think that you are the perfect person to talk to today. And when it came to International Women's Day, my team and I sat

down and we like brainstormed some people that we could sit down with and, you know, have a good chat that would add value to the community, but also be engaging for me because I don't want to just get people on the show that I'm like, they had a cool name, you know, like that doesn't make sense. You know who came up? You came up and Maria came up. And we were like, all right, well, it makes sense. They're a very hot couple, but also you are just such a powerful woman that I look at you and I go, this makes sense. Like this year's theme for International Women's Day is counter in, and we want to be investing in women and accelerating their progress. And obviously when it comes to financial literacy, that was something that you've spoken out before. And

we've had some really beautiful conversations on your radio show about the lack of financial literacy for women and how we can increase that. And I just think that obviously it's an important topic for our community. But I just thought that having a good conversation about you, your money story, where you've come from, what you think about the future and everything in between would be very wholesome for my community because you're in the right place. Well, I'm ready. You're ready? I was like, don't think you're coming on here. And I'll be like, all right, so if someone's investing in a share portfolio...

I'm glad you're not. I'm the kid that grew up in housing commission. I was talking about this yesterday on my show. And I always talk about you on my show because I still can't believe. But the simple things that you explain on your podcast and on Instagram, I'm just like, how does nobody know this stuff? Why aren't we taught these things? So for me, I was never taught that stuff. I was never taught how to save or what it takes to buy a house. I've got my own business and I don't even know how I'm doing it, but I'm just somehow making it up. You're not making it up. I'm not making it up, but I kind of did.

Well, not make it up. I learned as I went. I taught myself. I Googled. I watched. I listened. I absorbed and I implemented what I thought was right. But isn't it wild that you can say, oh, I just taught myself how to do it in 2024. Like it's completely possible to change your money story and to change the trajectory of your life and where it's going and what that looks like. And like you are obviously a really good example of that. But if we go back 50 years, that wasn't a privilege that we had. Like you couldn't sit down and be like, well, I want to start a business because do you know what? You would have had to have a male co-sign any type of business like loan that you needed. No one would have trusted you and

you didn't have access to the information. I just think that we're in such a privileged position today. And I guess that's why when it came to the topic of talking about economic empowerment and accelerating, you know, gender equality, it made sense to get you in because I feel like you've been like, you know what, I'm just going to take it by the horns. This was my past and look at my future. Look what I'm doing for my kids. Like I just look at it and go, I need to know all the things. So it sounds like a bit of a wordy topic, but in a nutshell, we're talking about how women being empowered in the financial space is one of the best ways that we can actually create gender equality. And I guess I want to talk to you a bit more like at the start about your

relationship with money like growing up you've said you know I grew up in commission housing that wasn't it what did that relationship with money look like because it's changed since then and now you are in a position you could buy a house you could do all of this stuff but like going back to baby mo did she know that that was a possibility no like generally even as an 18 year old my only goal was to be able to pay my rent that was it if I can pay rent and buy myself furniture, I'm winning. The way I grew up watching my parents do it tough. I lost my dad at a young age. Grew up in a house full of domestic violence, to be fair and to be real. Was never taught anything. I don't even think I was told I was loved as a child. So I had to teach myself

literally everything. And I know your producer's looking at me like with pity eyes, but I don't want pity. The first time I was told I was loved, I was 24 years of age from a parent. So for me, my whole life has been like survival and teach yourself and I just knew that you know and no disrespect to my family I love them but they're all stuck in a cycle and I needed to break that and there's nothing I wanted more than my own family but I promised myself I would not bring children into this world unless I can afford to keep a roof over their head and put food on a table and that was my drive and so I got my first job at 17 18 as a traffic controller just working on the road trying to make money. I mean, I've been evicted from houses. I've almost lost my

car. I've lost my phone that's been turned off. I've been through everything, but I've learned from all of that. And I just had to teach myself what money is. And because I didn't have it, I didn't want to go for that thing of now I've got it and now I just spend it because like I really wanted to learn how I can not buy the things that I want, but only get the things I need. And I think that's just kind of what I've done. And it's what you've maintained as well. I I think that's my favourite thing about all of this is you are still so down to earth. You are the person on mic that you are off mic

and that's incredible because I feel like so many people when they come into a different financial circumstance aren't and, like, you're talking about your family and not being told that you're loved and I go, do you know what, you would never know if you looked from the outside in because you shower your kids with so much love, dive deeper into it and there's obviously a story there of that's not what you got

and you're like, no, I'm going to be so aggressive about making sure that they know they are loved. Can I tell you something? Of course. Absolutely not. That's not what I was, which is so beautiful, and I love that about myself. And that's what I talk to Marie about all the time.

I love that the way I'm parenting, and I appreciate your kind words, is not because I'm trying to be what they weren't. I'm just being what I want to be, and that is loving. It's who you are as a human being, though. Yeah, I want my kids to feel nothing but love and support and be there at any moment that they need me. Exactly. I just want to be a parent like you.

Like, I was saying that to my husband the other day, because, you know, when you're pregnant, you haven't had your first baby yet. You're like, you're anxious, right? You're like, am I even going to be good at this? Like, is child services going to come and take this child off me? Because they'll be like, Victoria, like, you don't have a parenting license. Like, I literally at 3am worry so much about like, am I going to be able to give them what they deserve?

Am I going to be able to provide them with, you know, absolutely everything while still, you know, maintaining a piece of me? and you know he goes well you know you've got a heap of like mum friends like what mum friends do you look at the most and I go Mo I want to be Mo like I just it's quite sweet you've got this drive you have this passion you're still running your business like you've got an epic radio show you've got so much going on but the priority in your life is your children like over and above absolutely everything and I just go that's who I want to be yeah well you know as a kid when my dad died of cancer I didn't have a great relationship with him

But I remember listening to him two days out from dying. He was in his room and all he kept saying was regret. And he called my older brothers and sisters in. He was saying goodbye. And he's like, I'm sorry I didn't do this. I'm sorry. As a 12-year-old kid, I said to myself in that moment, I'd never want to be him. Don't ever be on your deathbed regretting life.

And for me, you can have all the money in the world, but you still get buried alone. If I'm privileged enough to live to an old woman, which is what I hope I get to be as old, I hope I'm surrounded by love because at the end of the day, being surrounded by money to me means shit. I want to be surrounded by the people I love and I will drop everything that happens in my life right now if my kids need me. And that's just the kind of person I am. That's why I adore you. That's why I was like, please come on my show. And can I share you with my community? Obviously growing up with a large amount of siblings, how did you change that? You knew that you wanted to, you were like, this isn't who I want to be going through that experience at

12 going, I don't want regrets like my dad has. What were you doing to change that? Like how have you crafted your money story in such a way that it is what it is now? Work hard, to be fair. Just really work hard. Like there were times where we couldn't eat what we didn't eat as kids. We didn't have food to take to school. I had this teacher, it was my favourite teacher, Mrs Harrison. I still remember why teachers are so important. She would bring an extra lunch every day in case I didn't have food. So for me, I just knew I had to work so hard. I didn't go to school. So I didn't do any high school because I actually moved out with my dad to take care of him with his cancer because the doctor said he couldn't live at home. So I cared for him for like five, seven years. So no

schooling. And when I got my first job, I just knew that if I worked really hard, I could do something. And even if that just meant being able to pay rent, buy food and pay the bills, I am winning do you know what I mean like I wanted to move away from using Centrelink or you know living in housing commission I knew I wanted more in life so I started with just rent bills the basics and just having the dream car which back then the dream car was a Holden don't judge me I'm not judging you that's very broadie of you though yeah 100% but that was that was my dream car I was like oh my god that's like my now version of like a Range Rover but that was it and I did that. I mean, I got paid off for the next eight years.

That's not the point. You got your mitts on it. Exactly. And it just made me so proud of myself to know that I'd done that because that's something that my mom wasn't able to do. Like my mom was married to my dad for, I don't know, almost 30 something years. And she not once from the age of 19 to 49, she was not allowed access to money. She did not see a cent of the money and she wasn't allowed to know where the money went. She worked full time. She was a nurse.

She didn't see anything financial. None of her income. He took it all. So for me, I was like, I'm doing what I want to do and I'm really proud of myself. So that's where I started. And once I was renting a house, I brought myself furniture, I got my car.

Then I was like, my dream one day is to buy a house because I wanted to make my mum proud. Do you know what I mean? I mean, you did, didn't you? I would love for a house, yeah, but I also want to be like, mum, someone brought a house. one of your kids did this. Do you know what I mean? Like that was a thing for me. So that became my next goal. And then what was it like sharing that news with your mum? I call my mum with

everything. So to call my mum and be like, hey, guess what? I think I'm going to be able to buy a house. Of course, she's like, are we here in Glenroy? I love it. Right here, right? Like it has to be like next door, right? Yeah. I was like, mum, it's not where I'm working. Can't do that. But it's actually one of my dreams to buy an investment property in Glenroy, just because that's home but yeah to share that moment with her for me every moment I've had and being able to share with her has just been some of the best memories of my life because for me I watched that woman sacrifice her whole life literally and she went through hell to have just the smallest things that she did but she stayed and she fought for us and she was all about her kids always like I feel

like every time you and I catch up we always talk about your mum like something comes back to your mum and like the way that you talk about her is so wholesome and so beautiful and you just know that you have so much admiration for everything that she did and everything that she went through I look at it and go that's so special but also it's just so nice to see the way that your value system sits because you look at it and go you know it's still all about those basic needs that everybody deserves right and coming from where you came from paying rent like that's a goal and I think too often we live in this world where social media takes over and you know I scroll through TikTok and everyone's got a designer this and a designer that and like there's just this next

level of expectation and we look at ourselves and go I'm not good enough if I don't xyz but we're forgetting that that's not what life's about life is about friends and family and having food on the table and I think that so many of us need to go back to being grateful for that and actually appreciating the small things because the bigger things, they mean nothing if you can't appreciate what you already have. A hundred percent. And that's something that I'll always be grateful for. If I have a roof over my head and food on the table, I'm winning. And I look at my sister who's special needs, you know, Vinnie, but you know what? She is a perfect example of she came in here and she sat right next to you and you can probably afford to buy anything for her. Let's be

real. I mean, she always asks you for stuff that's like not that exciting. And I made this point to this lady who owned a real estate agency, right? So quite wealthy. Yeah. I said, the difference between her and us is she's categorized as disabled, right? And we're supposed to be the normal ones. But watch this, ask her three things that if she wanted anything in the world, you'd buy it for her. Go and ask her what she wants. And she did. And Lavinia said, I just want a wall charger for my iPhone, right? It's like 10 bucks. I need a new lead for that phone because I broke mine. It's probably another 10 bucks. And she wanted $10 credit for her phone. So in total- I love that. She's like, I don't even need a lot of credit. Just 10 bucks for now, thanks.

She could have said a house, a boat, a trip around the world. But she just said, what are the three things I need right now in life? What will make me happy? The simple things. I love her so much. And I think that's me. I just like the simple things. My favorite pair of shorts is the same shorts I wore on Survivor four years ago. I still wear them every day. They've got a hole in them. I don't give a shit. Yeah, whatever. They're still your faves. I don't care about brands. Like brands don't bother me. Like this is, yes,

I'm wearing a Ralph Lauren jumper. It was gifted to me by Maria. You're like, it was free. oh yeah she's bougie though she got fancy wardrobe which is why we're so different no but opposites attract right like I feel like you balance each other out and that's literally perfect let's go to a really quick break because I want to talk a little bit more about how we can empower women in my community and broader than that to be economically empowered because for so long these stereotypes of men running the world have existed and I mean it's been peppered throughout your childhood of your dad running all of the finances, but we're kicking back from that.

So guys, don't go anywhere. All right, Mo, we are back and I want to dive straight in. One of the positive things that we see through women becoming economically empowered is a lot of women actually stepping into side hustles and small businesses. And recently we surveyed my community and, you know, one of the questions we asked was like, do you have a small business or a side hustle? 22% of them said yes and I was like wait what 22% of you like one in five have a small business or side hustle going on they're like making some extra cash on the side and I just was like what like how cool is that in 2024 or I did this research in 2023 but same same they're just out there hustling and that's something that we've not been able to

I guess see before it's not something that we've been empowered to do we've always been you know strapped to the home or like, you know, controlled by the patriarchy. And I just think it is so epic that we see this growth. And according to an article written by the Minister's Treasury Portfolio, Julie Collins, the Minister for Housing and Homelessness and the Minister for Small Business, women account for around one third of Australia's small business population. That number has grown by 24% between 2006 and 2001, which I think is very epic. but it's more than three times the growth of their male counterparts. Mo, obviously very encouraging stats,

but do we need to have a side hustle to be successful? On my radio show, which you've come on, I interview like three, four female entrepreneurs a day. I listen to reruns because I can't tune in when you're live. I'm a creep, I know. I have to say every single woman I've interviewed has said they've had a side hustle. They had a side hustle to have that business.

And what makes me happy about the stats you've just read out is I'm going to give you a really sad stat, right? That is, in Australia, women over the age of 55 are the fastest growing group of homelessness, right? Because women, historically, thank you patriarchy, get fucked. I don't know if I can swear, sorry. You can swear. Told women to stay home, cook for the man,

clean up, take care of the kids. And then when the kids are in school, where do they go? They've got no job, no experience, no one will hire them. And then what happens? They get left, they get divorced. They've got nowhere to go, no savings, no super. and now they're homeless living on the streets? To me, it is cooked.

I know that stat and it breaks me because it's not obvious the way it happens, right? Like you don't sign up to be a mum because you go, all right, well, I really want to not have economic empowerment. You sign up to be a mum because it's going to be the greatest adventure of your entire life, right? And I'm pretty sure so many women, if we said to them, if you had the opportunity to stay home 24-7 with your kids,

do you want that? They would jump at that opportunity, right? So it's not as though we're being forced into these roles, but at the same time, we're not being considered, we're not being allocated for, we're not having these deeper conversations with our partners to say, all right, well, Mo, you're going back to work, your partner's going to stay home with a partner, are you contributing to their superannuation so that they're never behind or left out? Are we talking about, you know, making sure that we're not talking about giving your wife

an allowance, we're talking about, you know, having actual financial empowerment in a relationship because I believe that people who stay home to be the primary carer of children are actually worth so much more than the person that's going to work and bringing in the cash because they are completely irreplaceable. If you lose that person,

how much is it going to cost for you to still maintain your full-time job and have the kids cared for in exactly the same way? I can answer that. Well, how, Mo? And the other issue is women face also, and speak about single women as well, daycare prices are a joke. Like I looked at putting one kid into daycare last year

and it was going to cost me weekly $900 for him to be in daycare. Actually insane. What's the point? I did the research as well because it turns out daycare is not just expensive, it's really elitist and you can't just get in immediately. Exactly. And this is another ridiculous part that I didn't know and I learnt the hard way. I put him in because I didn't have a choice, right?

I split with my ex-wife. I had to keep working or I couldn't pay for food. It broke my heart, but I was like, I need to do it, right? So I put him in. The first day he was there, he got sick. He had croup. He was unbelievably unwell for two weeks. They invoiced me for two weeks.

I was like, what do you mean? He's not there. They go, yeah, but if he's sick, you still have to pay. So that is a rule on all daycares that if your kid does not attend on a day that you register them to go, you still have to pay. So now think about single women or women who come to an agreement with their partner and then decide to put their kid into daycare they can go to work. What are you working for? Not many women earn over $900 a month a week. I

don't have statistics for you, but there's not. No. And it's insane to think about that trade off as well, because let's pretend they do come home with $1,000 a week. Like we're still paying tax on that amount of money. We're still going, all right, well, what is the cost of me being away? And this is something that like, I feel like so many mums are having the battle of like, is it worth the extra 90 bucks I'll end up bringing into the family every week to be away? for them to be sick. But then also I could talk about this for forever, right? What happens when the baby is sick? The primary carer, there's usually a default parent. It's not like, oh, yep, I'll do it this time. You did at that time. There's usually some level of power

dynamic that says, well, I've got the bigger job. I've got the better job. I really need the sleep. And it starts so early on. And I've been doing a lot of research. I think I'm just passionate about it because I feel so supported in my life like my husband is going to bend over backwards for this baby and you know a lot of my friends I'll speak to them and be like oh how's it going they'll be like yeah my husband's back at work so I'm staying up at night doing all of the feeds so when he wakes up in the morning and goes to work he's fresh and ready for a whole day of work and I'm like are you forgetting that you have a whole day of work as well and that being a parent is actually a job. Like it's actually exhausting. Like you can't just sleep when the baby sleeps.

What are we going to do the washing when the baby does the washing and do the cleaning when the baby does the cleaning? Like it actually grinds my gears that there's just this power imbalance inherently built into relationships. But that's, I guess, going back to your conversation about homelessness and how so many women over the age of 55 are in that cohort. It's because it creeps up on you. Like you go, all right, well, take some time out to have a baby. That's absolutely fine. Maybe you have thought about super, but it's one year and then it's two years. And then you're making compromises on the career that you could have had because you go, well, actually, love the kids. I don't actually want to return full time. That aspiration of, you know, becoming something

bigger or having a career gets put on the side and you might make a choice that's like, all right, well, I know what I want to do. I want to take an admin job for three days a week because that gives me the best work-life balance. And you're going down a completely different path. And then ultimately something might happen. Your relationship dissolves and you've found yourself not prepared in the way that you would have been if you had chosen in exactly the same way that your partner could have. This is a stereotype. They got to go and become the best lawyer. But you didn't have that because you were consistently compromising the choices that you were making to put your family first and that ultimately put you last. Yes. Don't even know how to add sex. A hundred

percent agree. It just pisses me off. I also think that in my old marriage, as the person that worked all the time, for me, it was so stressful thinking that if I lost my job, my business went under, our family screwed. I would want my partner to contribute financially if they can. Do you know what I mean? Like our whole plan was for the first three years, stay home look after the kids which i'm not saying lightly at all right no it's a privilege and it's one that you could make that decision of and that's slay yeah but when i say stay home i'm like we both know being that stay home parent is way harder than being the parent that goes to work so once the kids got old enough then contribute a hundred percent but if maria quits work when

we have a kid she's in trouble because i'm not gonna let her go work i need money this kid needs Yep. Agreed. I feel like it's about compromise though. And I think that we all have to make compromises. And I mean, traditionally that gender pay gap exists because the compromise was always the stereotypical female would stay home and look after the kids. Right. But I guess women might not be as aware of the gap as they could be. And I think that sometimes we also bury our heads in the sand when something exists, but it doesn't directly impact us. So like the gender pay gap exists and it frustrates me because I'm in that world all the time. But, you know, people in our community might step back and be like, oh, I don't really see it. Like I earn $80,000 and my husband

earns $80,000. It's not really a thing anymore. You just go, you've got your blinkers on because it's not actually about you. Like it's about the wider community. So I've written down a few stats And according to data provided by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, Australia's national pay gap is 13%. I think that's a lot because like on any investment, right, I'm getting 13%. That's pretty big dog return. That's good. But as of May, 2023, the full-time adult average weekly ordinary time earnings across all industries and occupations was $1,938.30 for men and $1,686 dollars for women. So for every dollar on average that a man earns, a woman earns 87 cents. That's a difference of $252.30 less than men each and every single week. And over the course of one

year, that adds up to $13,000. Extrapolating that out, Mo, if you were in the privileged position of starting work, let's pretend like you start your first professional job. We're not talking about, you know, being a big dog lawyer, but at 18, you start investing. If at 18, you had invested that money and you're investing $13,119, drop it down to 10 grand because we're being conservative again. Cause like I'm going to spend some of my savings on coffee. That's more than $6 million in retirement. We're worse off. That is 6 million reasons why we need to care. That is 6 million reasons why that 13% actually matters. Like we're not talking here about, you know, 13 grand. I think a lot of people go, it's only 13 grand, like in the grand scheme of things, my husband earns that

back and like, it doesn't even matter. Like literally sit down because if women who were in that demographic of being over 55 had that knowledge, no one would be going homeless at that point because they could absolutely pave the way. Even cut it in half. You don't even need half. you don't even need a quarter to create that. Why are we so complacent? Because like sometimes you hear, and I've seen a statistic that we're not going to see equal pay for another 132 years. Yeah. And it used to be 100 and it's getting worse. It's getting worse every year. But why is it that people would go, oh yeah, we're getting better. Like it's okay because it's improving. For us to ask for equal opportunity and equal pay to a male

that's doing the same fucking role as you is not asking if we can be paid 20% more. It's not asking if we can be gifted a house because we are women. We are asking for equal rights. How hard is it? I want to work as hard as you. Like, I don't want to do less and get more. I want to do what you're doing and get paid the same. But right now I'm doing what you're doing and getting paid less. Working twice as hard for half the opportunity. Exactly. And I think that obviously I'm wildly passionate about the investment space because I can see it every day in our community, how that puts women ahead. Because you don't have to earn millions. You don't even have to earn more than $100,000 to put yourself in a financially secure

position. Like you just need to have the level of financial literacy gifted to you early so that you know how to make decisions and you know how to put yourself first. And you ask the question of like, why are we so complacent? Because we as women have always been excluded from the conversation. We are not smart enough. We, you know, don't need to worry about that. That's a man's job. They're the ones that run the household income. They're the ones that invest. It's not very sexy for a woman to invest, but it is so flipping simple. Like if you can just create a pathway to, you know, contribute a couple of dollars a week, that is an investment in your financial literacy. As your income increases or you come across another 50 bucks, you can put it

into that investment and watch it grow. We don't live in a world anymore where the minimum investment amounts are hundreds of dollars. You can invest for as little as one cent and that's going to put you in the best possible position. And I mean, if you're in debt and you're listening to this and you're like, oh, that would be so nice. But like, I don't think you understand we're in the middle of a cost of living crisis and it's fucking hard to put food on the table. You are doing the right thing. Like there's nothing shameful or worrisome about that, but I still want you to invest in understanding those concepts so that when you can pick it up, it makes sense and works for you. I think so many times when we feel like we are, you know, not in our perfect position,

How many times have you heard people, especially women say, yeah, I'll get around to investing when I have a bit more cash or I'll get him around to investing once I get out of debt or I'll get around to understanding that concept once I'm ready. Once you're ready, it's too late because you could have been starting. We deserve to give ourselves financial literacy and that is free. So I pose this to you. Yes. If I was that person that had that $10,000 from that year, where am I investing it?

Oh, okay. So we'll take this offline because I'll actually tell you. I mean, I would never tell you that would be illegal. But where does someone start? So it's about picking a platform first. So I've never invested in my life, right? And that's because I don't know. All right.

Well, we'll go out for coffee after this and I'll be like, hey, sit down. But the answer to that. But you've got people listening that are probably in the same spot. So where do they even start? So first, I'll listen to my Back to Basics of Investing 101 series that I did a couple of months ago, which will tell you exactly what it is. But I think we get, especially as women, analysis paralysis over picking. Immediately you go, what do I invest in? And that's not the question, Mo. The question is, how do I start? You start by

going, okay, I know how much I have to play with. It might be one cent. It might be $10. It might be $100. You might've got an inheritance and it's $100,000. But we need a platform to invest in. You can't just go down the shop and be like, hey, Vanguard, can I please have this without like a third party. I always explain it like going to the supermarket, like you want to go buy yogurt, like you're going to go to the third party and you're going to go into the supermarket and purchase the yogurt from them. You're not going to like go directly to the dairy. You're going to, you know, have a supermarket. So your investing platform is your supermarket and you need to pick an investing platform that makes sense for you. So there are lots of investing

platforms around. One of the most popular ones at the moment is self-wealth, but we then need to look at what that can provide you with. So that can provide you with direct access to everything, but they have a minimum investment amount of $500. So you might go, that doesn't work for me. And I go, all right, well, what other options could you look at? And you might look at a platform like Sharesies and you go, well, what can that give me access to? What do they sell in that shop? Right. And you go, well, actually they don't just have Australian shares. They give you access to Australian, US and New Zealand shares. And they're, you know, growing still, there might be more stuff on there in the future. And you go, sounds pretty good, but

what's the caveat? Like how much money do I need to start? Well, Sharesies is one cent. So you kind of go, oh, actually that becomes a little bit easier. And so I would always start with what platform do I want to download so that I can start playing or going to the shops? Because you can go to the shops and not buy anything, right? It's like downloading the platform is kind of like going to the supermarket. And if we step foot in the supermarket, we don't actually have to buy anything. You might like go around the grocery store and go, the produce is not as fresh. I mean, they're all selling the same stuff, but you might just not like the user experience. And you look around, you might go, I actually prefer like a Woolies over Coles.

And that's fine. It's all personal preference. But we're picking that platform. After we've picked that platform, we need to have a really good think about like, what type of person am I? Am I real risky? Do I want to buy like, you know, really risky, like penny stocks, which is a stock that doesn't have a lot of backing.

They're really dirt cheap. and a lot of people want to invest in them or get a lot of joy out of investing in them because it's kind of like gambling. You get a little bit of a kick when you pick a penny stock that goes well. I'm the type of person who's really conservative when it comes to investment because I don't like loss. When I look at the risk reward scale, I go, oh yeah, I could get a lot more reward, but I'd just like to sit in the middle and be happy and just have my standard returns over time. So I might say that a standard blue chip stock, which is just a stock that's been around for a long time. We're talking, you know, Woolies, Coles, BHP, all of those ones that

if you heard them on the telly, you go, yeah, they're shares, full stop, end of story. That's what I look at. Or you might want something where you don't have to manage it as much. You might want an ETF, which is an exchange traded fund, which is a bucket of shares. So you don't have to make too many decisions, but you go, that aligns to my values. I'm just going to tip my money in there. So the question isn't, what do I invest in? It's what's the pathway to get invested and how do I, one, get on that pathway, but two, where do I start? You start with a platform. Then you think about who you are and what you want to invest in. And then you might play on the platform a little while and see what it's actually like. You might track a few stocks

for a few months before even biting the bullet. All of that is fine, but it's about that level of financial literacy because I think people immediately want to go, well, where do I put all our money. And if you do that first, the second that the market dips, even for a minute, you're going to shit bricks and you're going to go, am I doing the right thing? What's going on? Whereas if we work backwards, it's going to dip and you go, I've seen this happen before. This happens often because over your lifetime, Mo, the market is essentially going to crash seven times. And we need to be prepared mentally for that because to me, money is more psychological than it is physical. Like if I tell you, you're going to lose two bucks, you'd be like, whatever.

But if you then over the last 10 years had been investing in a share portfolio and I go, you could lose half of that. That's not okay. Like you're not going to agree to that. You're not going to consent to that. But if you knew what the market was doing and that it would recover, and you're going to go through these things every seven years, and you've got, you know, someone like me on your team who can go, Mo, it's the market. It's this. Like when in doubt, zoom out, like, let's look at the bigger picture. You're going to be like, all right, I see that it's down but I also see I still own every single share that I purchased I actually haven't lost anything I'll only lose something if I sell the shares for what they're worth today

but I'm not going to do that I'm going to hold on for the long term does that make sense makes sense you're really good at making it accessible just because we use examples like going to the supermarket because you know when some people talk about we don't have to make it complex they make it sound like they're giving a lecture at a university and you just don't get it well it's Not you don't get it, you just don't care. Or you tune out because you just don't understand it enough. And do you know what? I think that people do that on purpose to justify their roles.

I think they do it on purpose to justify high fees and make themselves feel better about the fact that they're so smart. Like, I don't believe that intelligence is linked to, you know, being a good investor. Like some of the best investors that I had as clients when I was a financial advisor, just mums and dads who were just consistent some of the worst investors were the ones that came to me and they had super high incomes and they're really aggressive and they wanted to tell all their friends about what they owned and then as a financial advisor I'd sit down and be like why have you done this like it was such a boys club mentality and like I slipped into having a number

of clients who were male footballers in the AFL and it was such a wank mo they'd be like oh well can you construct my portfolio my friends got this this and this and I'd be like I don't know why they have that. It makes no sense. Well, that's what I want because they've got it and they got really good return. I'm like, you don't understand that the reality of this is, you know, you have worked in football. For me, we need to make hay while the sun's shining because you're not always going to earn what you're earning. All right, let's wrap this up. You have two beautiful kids, Svea and Ahi, and you are so well balanced. And I feel like you're really taking charge of your financial future at this point. I know you and I have had a lot of

conversations about money, about what you want to do in the future and where that's going. But how are you talking to them about money? How are they starting to go, oh, that makes sense? And I'm assuming they're probably not because a money story really starts at seven because they're too young to conceptualize it beforehand. But what does that look like for you? How are you going to introduce money to your kids? I changed. I did something wrong at the start and I think I'm much better at it now as a kid I've mentioned I had nothing and so for my daughter particularly what I would do is just whatever you want babe I'll buy it for you go to shop I get it you want five of those go get them do you know every shop what do you want babe no problem I'll get it for you

want a bike done and I'm not trying to sound arrogant with money it's just that I didn't want that to happen to my kid but I learned all I needed with my kid in those moments was memories, right? And memories are not made by things made of money. I grew up with a lot of memories and a lot of them didn't involve money. So I learned financially pretty quickly and I knew that it was triggered by my childhood. And once I learned that for me, all of our adventures with my kids, majority of the time, we're outdoors at a park that's free, not spending money on everything just so that they understand. So I think, yeah, they're probably still a bit young, but it's like little things like that, that I'm being able to teach them

that I think is going to make a difference. Yeah, no, I love it. I do think that's all we have time for today, Mo. This is not the last time I'm going to get you on my podcast, though. We have so much to talk about, so much to do. And I just know that our community are going to listen to this and adore it. I hope they share it with friends. I hope they share it with family and just go, you need to listen to this conversation. Mo is inspirational and empowering and knows her shit. Like you stand up for what you believe in. And I think that that's what all the good eggs in the entire world do. So thank you for joining us. It has been an absolute pleasure. Pleasure's all mine. Thank you for having me.

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