She's On The Money - Ethical & Sustainable Fashion

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Today we're looking at ethical and sustainable fashion vs fast fashion. We'd all prefer to be ethical and sustainable in our choices, but there is often an added cost to these items that many simply can’t budget for. Listen in as the gals break it down and talk facts, figures, privilege, priorities and so much more!  Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Today I have Victoria Devine with me. G'day, Victoria. Oh, g'day, mate. This is an Australian podcast now, is it? Yeah, I feel like we should do the whole podcast as Americans trying to be Australian. Oh, yeah. All right. All right. Is that all right? Is that all right?

Oh, I can't do it. I actually can't do our accent. Let's move on because it's terrifying. When we were in America, actually, I went to FinCon last year, which you guys probably know because I keep talking about it because I was obsessed with it. It just made me so aware of my own accent. I felt like such a bogan and I genuinely exist in a sphere where I think, oh, like I'm relatively well, you know, well-spoken. I'm all right. I'm pretty articulate. I did not feel like that in America. I felt like the biggest bogan and people would like look at me and be like, oh, you're from Australia. And I'd be like, oh gosh. They really articulate their words there. Yeah. And just the intonation at the end,

like we have everything as a question and they're just so much more assertive so anyway moving on what are we talking about today beck okay so today we're talking about ethical and sustainable fashion fashion is this something that you're familiar with i am and i'm quite passionate about it we actually did an episode way back when i think probably in like season one of she's on the money which if you are new to she's on the money i actually don't recommend you go and listen to. And I say that because I'm embarrassed of who I was as a person and how nervous I used to be behind the microphone and how planned I would be. And I would make sure that everything was correct. So don't do that. But if you do, thanks for the listens, really helps me out. But today

we are talking about ethical and sustainable fashion versus fast fashion. And I think this is a topic of debate, not only in our community, but in a lot of other communities. I'm seeing it a lot pop up in, I guess, pop culture references. I am, if anything, addicted to drama. I don't like being involved in the drama, but I want to be like the fly on the wall when it comes to other people's drama. I don't want to talk about it. Like I'm not going to like have a, you know, a chat about it. I just want to read about it and be gossipy. So I love a pop culture podcast's Facebook group and a few of them just like reading through the comments. You best believe I've read them. Will I ever comment? Absolutely not. Like I don't want to be involved. Will I share anything

that I see in there with you, Bec? No, because I don't want to be like embarrassed of what I've read and what I thought was interesting. But I'll probably find it interesting too. I mean, this is where these topics come from. So you guys better find this interesting as well or else it's not worth your time. But essentially, I know we all prefer to be ethical and sustainable in our choices, right? In a perfect world, fast fashion wouldn't exist. But I think that there is a big conversation to be had around why it does and why it's successful, but also privilege when it comes to being able to choose ethical and sustainable choices, because there's obviously a cost to those items that most people can't budget for. And I think at the moment, obviously, with influencers

buying a lot of items off Sheen, like it makes me really frustrated because I know that they can afford more and they can do better. And I feel like if you're in the position and in the very privileged position of being able to do better, you should be. But I also want to address the fact that people shouldn't be shamed for purchasing fast fashion because you never know their financial circumstances. And we're going to talk a little bit about, I guess, how to one, dispel that, but also how to approach it if your budget only allows for fast fashion and making that okay. Because I think too many times, like, who doesn't love a $4 singlet from came up. I love. But do you know what I mean? Let's be honest. Like if I could buy something

and I don't nowadays, because again, privileged position to be in, I can make more sustainable and ethical choices. And I am so grateful that I can. Who doesn't love a $4 singlet though? Like surface level, surface level, that is a money win. Yeah. Is it a money win for other people involved in that supply chain? Probably not. And we can talk about that, but I just think that sometimes the internet goes wild and jumps down people's throats and we really need to talk about the flip side of things. And obviously the negative impacts of fast fashion are really bad for the environment. They are shocking when it comes to human rights, but we often don't think about how much those impulse purchases add up over the years and how much can actually cost you

more than an expensive and considered purchase that you actually wear a lot, right? And again, again again that plays into privilege and there are a lot of people even in our community right and it goes back to school shoes like there's this example of school shoes do you remember at school like the popular school shoes the harrisons i think so i had like docs and yeah cool girl stuff right yeah yeah docs are a really well-made shoe yeah they are very expensive a pair of harrison school shoes which are the ones that i used to think were really cool you know like the t-bar ones with the butterfly platinum on them. Yeah, they're the ones I really wanted. But they were so expensive. Not everybody has the budget to buy their child the best school shoes. But if you're

going to Kmart and buying $15 school shoes, and that's all you can afford, one, that's okay. But two, you're probably going to find yourself in the position where you have to buy five or six pairs of those $15 school shoes over the year because you just don't have the budget to make that $100 purchase at the beginning of the year. So I think that we need to play into that side of it as well and talk about the privilege of actually being able to afford a buy it once, buy it right kind of mentality because we don't all have that. Like we can't all just go, all right, well, need to get my daughter school shoes. It would be a better investment to just buy the first one. We all know that. We all know that. But like genuinely, Bec, and I guess this goes

back to conversations you and I have had about your upbringing. That's not an option. No. Like your mum's not going to be like, you know what, it's better investment, Bec, if we just buy it once and buy it right. Yeah. No shit. Where are you getting this money from? Where are you getting this money from? Like, where can we get a cheap pair of school shoes that are going to do the job to get it done so that you can go to school and get your education and not put me into significant debt? And I'm already in debt. Yeah. Anyway, we can go on and on about this, but there are so many forces that exist to keep us trapped in this cycle of consumption and just feeling like we're not enough unless we have the next thing on social media. And to be honest, let's be honest,

I am human too. I see stuff on Instagram all the time. I'm like, oh, that might be nice. I want that. And I know you, Bec, because I am you. I'm exactly like everybody that listens to this podcast. It's not something that I'm immune to. And if this resonates with you, you might actually get something out of our episodes on spending addiction. You might not have a spending addiction, but there might be a few things that we could pull back on. It was from October 12th last year. A hundred percent. It's kind of like, it's exactly what we kind of talk about sometimes, like keeping up with the Joneses and wanting like the newest thing and like keeping up with the trends. Yeah. A hundred percent. I want to be a fashion queen. I'm not a fashion queen.

I think you are. Thank you. Thank you. It's because sometimes Jess or Gabby tell me what to buy. I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, is this cute? And they're like, yeah, I would go with these shoes. And so I only wear that combination. Yeah. Like I'm not going to mix it up. I'm not going to change it. You don't need anything else. Yeah. And sometimes this is a bit naughty, but I will spend more than I should. Like if I'm like, oh, I really want a new top, I'll go into the store. And if the mannequin has the top with the skirt, I'll be like, oh, okay. So those go together. I'll purchase that. I love that people think I'm fashion. I get such a kick when people message me like, oh, where's that from? I'm like, ha ha ha. I'm a fashion girly. I'm not. I'm really not. I

try so hard. You do pull it off well. My sister is a fashion girly. Like she is one of those people that can just like throw together outfits and actually like look really good. She just knows. Whereas I'm like, yes, I know of these three stores. That is it. I'll be like, oh, where's that top from? And she'll be like, oh, it's from this like eclectic label. I'm like, how do you even learn that? Where do you find that? I know. Where are these places? Yeah. Like I've never heard of that brand in my entire life. So I Google it and then I copy my sister too. So if you would like fashion advice, it shouldn't be from me, but you're right. Keeping up with the joneses genuinely sometimes feels like a race what are your clothes buying habits i feel like

you're gonna be better than me oh i'm really ashamed to say that i have a little bit of like a very specific germophobia and i would like to germophobia a little bit yeah okay i guess that's not what i thought was gonna be discussed when we were talking about ethical fashion yeah yeah It kind of is relevant because I would love to thrift shop because I see clothes in, you know, the op shops and I'm like, that looks really cool and, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just don't like dust. I don't like a dust. I don't like the smell of dust.

I don't like anything dusty. And I associate it with. You know, you can wash the clothes. I know, but it's in my head. It's very rational. It's very rational. I'm going to buy you a bottle of the dead old wash. You could buy me op shop clothes and tell me.

That they're new. That they're new. But, you know, and so I do go to places like. Can I ruin this for you? Oh, my God. So in my head, right, the supply chain of an op shop goes like this. Someone has been at their house. They are probably very clean and they've done their washing

and they put all their washing away and then one day they're like, oh, I really need to clean out my wardrobe, Bec. So they go through their clean wardrobe and they pull out clothes and then they donate it to a local op shop and the op shop looks at it and says, that's clean, we'll put it on a coat hanger and put it in the shop. Okay, all right, no worries. clothes that come from China have been dragged around a factory floor. They have been in big

rolls of stuff, probably covered in a whole heap of chemicals and sprays and things that maybe aren't allowed in Australia. And then they're cut on big machines that they definitely haven't disinfected them because it's not a food environment. They don't need to do that. And then they roll these clothes out and then somebody who you can't guarantee that they wash their hands, folds your t-shirt and puts it in a box that then goes into a store over here after being shipped internationally. And a seagull, it pooped on the top of that shipping container and then it's in the store. I see what you're saying. It's in the store. And because it's a big store, like Kmart, right? Heaps of kids go to Kmart and

they have sticky little fingers. And while their mums are shopping, they're touching everything and running in between the clothes. Wow. Okay. Have I ruined it? I think yes and for good reason. Yeah, but if somebody went and bought that Kmart T-shirt and took it home and then used Omo and then just sent it to the op shop,

it's a better supply chain when it comes to germs. I'm glad that this has been our conversation. That supply chain is entirely fictional. I made it up. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. No, but I need this because I feel like it's the best. My mum did this to me because one time I bought new sheets and I tried to put them straight on my bed and she was like, ah, no.

And that's basically what my mum did for me. Now there's no way I would buy sheets and put them straight on my bed. I have to wash them first. I'm glad that you told me that. I'm an isolated. You are an isolated. I need to get out of this mindset, you know what I mean? But I know it's something that's.

Instead of you just being anxious about op shopping, now you're anxious about op shopping. Oh, perfect. I'll never buy clothes ever again. Money win. But kind of to bring it back, I only ever buy Uniqlo or Target clothes and you can probably see that by looking at me. I wear the same thing every single day and I'm okay with that.

Do you know what I've never noticed? Oh, that's nice. Do you actually wear that T-shirt every day? No, you're making that up. No, different colors, this exact T-shirt. Yeah, but that's the Uniqlo T-shirt, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good quality T-shirt.

Very well cut. Good quality T-shirt, like 19 bucks. Yep, money win. We can't argue about that, but let's get back into the actual episode and talk about fast fashion for a hot minute because although I am personally in the position to spend more on clothes, there's always that pull regardless of what your budget looks like you always find yourself getting caught up in sales and I've definitely bought stuff that I ended up not wearing before so before

the arrival of fast fashion fashion used to have essentially two seasons a year would be like summer and winter which resulted in batches of garments coming out and being produced over 12 months and it was again a lot more sustainable fast fashion now compared to those two seasons summer and winter, which makes sense, right? Just need a t-shirt or you might need a jacket. Don't know. Fast fashion has around 52 seasons a year. That's one a week, Bec. Wow. One a week. And a single brand can produce 400 different styles dropping in stores every single week. Wow. Isn't that wild? That is wild. And Bec, we spoke about this in the first episode we did on sustainable fashion, but the numbers are disgusting. Did you know that 6,000 kilograms of clothing go into landfill

every single 10 minutes? Landfill? Landfill, in the bin, in the rubbish. Oh my goodness. In the rubbish, straight in the rubbish. That's sad. It really upsets me as well. And I think it's one of those things that we're just so frivolous and fast fashion is just that, it's fast. Like the reason they construct it poorly is because they just know that there's not the longevity there like your Uniqlo t-shirt is constructed really well and that's why you're buying it and you're going to get a lot of wear out of that but if you go to a lot of fast fashion retailers and it's interesting because you see a lot of conversation online about people saying oh the quality of x brand has been slipping over the years that's purposeful from them like it's

purposeful from them for a number of reasons one because it lowers their production costs because less quality, means less time, energy and effort, means less money going through things. So that increases their bottom line. But the second part of that is they know they can do that and get away with it because you're only going to wear it for one season. It's not a coat that you're purchasing and you're going to wear for the next 10 years. And that would be, you know, really bad for their brand if it came out that they had, you know, compromised quality. They don't care because you're just going to buy next season's coat anyway. So why would we construct this one well, makes no sense. So you throw it away. And we are in this world where

everything seems disposable, right? And I think this extends to literally every facet of our lives. And you see this, and I'm on TikTok a lot, so I see this in literally every facet, but fashion, beauty, homewares have become really disposable. Like I remember growing up and I had the same Duna cover, literally my entire childhood. Yeah, same fruit bowl, same kettle. And I feel like everyone on TikTok is restyling their house every two seconds. Like Kmart drops a new season of homewares and like every man and his dog has restyled their entire entertainment unit. And I'm like, oh, I've just got that photo of my sister that my mum gave me for my birthday

when I was 14, still sitting there. Like, and it's interesting because everything's disposable and I would even extend that to relationships. Like people are finding other people even disposable. And I just think that that is crazy. But I don't think it's much of a reach to say that because I think other people would agree that we just have less time, less energy, less effort for things and our mentality has changed. And it's not necessarily because we're just existing in a post-war era, right? Like remember when your grandparents used to say things like, oh, in my day we used to fix it and like my grandparents fixed everything.

You can't fix our stuff anymore because when it breaks, it's really broken. You can't fix a plastic kettle. You can't. You literally can't. That's true. But if it was like a cast iron kettle like my grandparents had, like if something happened to it, they'd re-solder it and it would actually be fixable.

It's not just because we've changed our minds and decided like, oh, we don't care about fixing things anymore. There's no point. Things don't last anymore. And that's purposeful because it's this circle of consumption and it keeps you in this circle of consumption. It keeps you trapped and that's the point. Planned obsolescence.

Yeah, exactly. planned obsolescence is absolutely what it is and it keeps you in this cycle because it's now more about driving sales and why would i build it well if it means that you'll come back in 12 months and get another one that is so true it just makes sense right so let's move on from that because i feel like i could rant for literal days about this whole planned obsolescence i would love to hear it well even apple was found to actually build in planned obsolescence into its iphones into their battery life. Isn't it wild? And they know what they're doing and they're doing it to get you to buy the next one. Psychology comes into this so deeply. It's marketing, it's branding,

things have changed. And it's not just around the product quality, but it's about them helping to change your mindset. So you just go, oh, well, I'll just buy another one. That's fine. Things Things are meant to break, right? No, absolutely not. Anyway, we could go on and on and on. I'm slowly realising that I don't fully know what ethical and sustainable fashion is. So let's get the lingo down. Yeah, okay.

Can you explain this to me? I'm the cool girl. I know the lingo, Bec. You are so cool. So ethical fashion generally covers the entire production process from cottonseed to the finished garment and it actually focuses on the fair treatment of people at every single stage along that supply chain, which I think is really, really important. And brands who we deem to be ethical fashion brands, they respect and they recognize every single person involved in

that supply chain from turning raw materials into wearable clothes that are hanging in your wardrobe. And they ensure that individuals are paid fairly for their skills and they work in a safe environment and they are appreciated for their talents just as human beings rather than just being a cog in the system, which we can all agree is very important. Definitely, definitely. When it comes to sustainable fashion, that actually is more about asking a question, not so much a process. Can we actually keep producing fashion while leaving more of a lighter on neutral footprint on the planet? And a brand considers their design process and tries to have minimal or no waste when using products. And they look at where their fabrics and their threads and

their buttons and their zippers and stuff like that are sourced from. And are they actually sustainable sources? They look into things like making sure that they're reducing the amount of energy that they use and they recycle along the way all of the elements that they might not use and the most sustainable fashion brands are now working on what's called a circulatory system in the supply chain and the end of life process of a garment once you're done wearing it. So while a fashion brand can be more sustainable there's actually no such thing as 100% sustainable fashion but also the other point that I want to make here is you know how we talk about when it comes to invest in greenwashing. They're doing that in fashion too. And the biggest retailer I'm seeing

doing it, and I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm going to do it anyway, is H&M. So H&M have, if you've been into one of their stores, they're one of the biggest fast fashion brands in the world. They are doing this in their stores now where they're like, oh, you can recycle your clothes here. It's more sustainable. It's more ethical. It's this. And they have these big donation bins in their stores so that you feel better about it. And you start associating words like sustainable and ethical with them when that's not actually the case so it's green washing at its finest because if you go in there right you're standing at the checkout and there's this big bin and they're talking about their more sustainable green

choices like cool let's think about it what are they doing with those clothes yeah they're just donating them in the same way you would if you were done with them so they're just disposing of them are they making them into fashion items that can be recycled like are they looking at that end of life process and going okay cool beck's done with her t-shirt we're going to use this product to create another product and therefore recycle it no that's not the case they're just going to donate it oh okay gross hey yeah all the bells and whistles but really yeah and lots of people do lots of people do it they even do it in the investment world it is not actually uncommon, which again, really gross. My faith in humanity is getting lower by the day.

Yeah. The longer you know me, the less you'll like the world. You're welcome. Thank you. So a point to make is that all of our ethics are different, right? So this applies to fashion too. And so a fashion brand can be ethical when it comes to human rights, but not sustainable with its fabrics and environmental practices. A brand can also be sustainable and completely disregard human rights. And if you throw in the ethics of animal rights, and then you have a whole other issue to consider. Absolutely. Which is exactly why we aren't going to give you a list of brands today. I think a lot of people ask for stuff like that. And I've seen a few different fashion pages listing out like here are ethical brands, but like you can never guarantee it. And

I think it's important for you to do your own research, just like the investment world. Make a decision on what aligns to your values because your values are not my values and me giving you a list based on my values to be honest gives me the ick that's fair it does like it just seems kind of rude for me to go through and be like these pass my vibe check I'm like okay why do I think I've got so many tickets that they should pass everybody's I would subscribe to that but how do we actually know like how can we check if a clothing brand is ethical yeah so it's really hard It is actually really hard because a lot of these processes, I don't want to say are secretive, but like it's not actually a lot of our business how a business does business, right?

Like you wouldn't be like, oh, how do I check if she's on the money's ethical? Like you don't see my bank accounts. You don't see my statements. You don't see like which suppliers I use. Like I would like to think I'm ethical. One way of doing that is by checking if they're a B Corp company, which means someone has checked that and gone through that process to see if they are ethical and they are a good company. You can always look at the tags and check where it's being made and what's going on.

There is a lot of information online. Obviously, one brand I will name because they're not very good is Shein. They are literally the worst at this from my perspective because they have such a big footprint and they have such a massive amount of clothing that goes out of them each every single day, which to be honest, makes me a little bit sick when you start to think about it. But you can look up other people's opinions online and even just type in, is Sheen ethical and look at what blogs and articles exist because usually people have done research on it and you could do that on any brand.

Another way to do that is to go to the brand's website if they're more of a small boutique brand and they often might talk about their supply chain or where they get their materials from. I've seen a few companies recently, which I've really liked because obviously we have a really big community of small business owners in She's On The Money. And I stalk you all. Like if you slide into my DMs and say you have a small business, I'm going to need to know what you do, where you do it, how you do it. I'm such a fan. But I'll look at your website and I've noticed on a lot of websites, people are like, oh, at the moment in our journey, we are currently working

with suppliers in China. I've made sure that they're ethical and sustainable. And once I have more revenue, the plan is to move to Australia for production. I'd like to bring it closer to home. It's just not sustainable at this point. And you just go, wow, like I like the value and the ethics of that brand. And I would really personally like to support that brand get to that position. And the only way that they're going to get to that position and to a thousand percent meeting their values is if I engage with them now so that they can grow their business. So I think it's, it's up to you and it's up to how you want to do things, but it's really about looking at it, looking at, you know, I mean, if you could deep dive into what their raw materials

are or if they use chemical treatments or like what their garment production process looks like or what type of waste management plan they have or like their end of life cycle for products. But again, it's each to their own. And to be honest, I would really just start with Google if you're worried about a particular brand. Okay. Okay. Start with Google. That's always the answer I find. Honestly, you could do my entire podcast. You could take my job by just Googling it sometimes. Okay. Don't do it. No, I won't. I would like to keep my job.

Okay, let's go for a little break. A hot girl walk, if you will. Let's go Google some stuff. Let's go Google some stuff. I'm going to Google a hot girl walk. BRB. Welcome back to She's on the Money. Victoria, I feel like I've aged like five years.

I don't know if it's because we were gone for so long, but I'm so happy to be back. And I'm really happy with what we're talking about. If anybody listened to last week's episode, they know there was absolutely no chance of you aging five years. But that's okay. Don't listen to last week's episode. Just kidding. You will learn a lot. So today we're talking about ethical and sustainable fashion.

We are. And fast fashion as well. Fast fashion. That's being thrown into the mix. Yes, exactly. So I want to know what are the increased costs with ethical and sustainable fashion? There are a few. So obviously, let's just talk about fabric to begin with. The price of sustainable fabrics are often on average two and a half to four times more expensive in comparison

to more commonly used fabrics, right? And this is partly because they're more expensive for the manufacturers to produce. So an example of that, organic cotton needs to be grown in different soil that's been cleansed for at least three years. I didn't know that, but three years to allow it to return to the level of biodiversity. I'm reading a quote here, biodiversity,

which allows the crop to grow naturally without toxic fertilisers. So that's a big investment to begin with. and then organic cotton needs to be picked by hand and it also doesn't grow as efficiently as one that used some toxins in it but the quality is much higher and it's much more durable which should make it fair that it makes more sense that it's more expensive right like when you start talking about that you're like wow that's time that's energy that's effort checks out and then if you're dyeing that fabric or like printing on it it is more time consuming and more cost consuming as well. Also eco textiles and dyes are more expensive because they are less in demand

than mass produced stuff like just polyester. Then we've got packaging, which is massive. Packaging is a massive gripe for me. We're not going to get onto that, but these brands will also generally try to conserve and reuse and recycle all of the extra bits that we forget about when it comes to fashion. So the packaging, the swing tags, all of that stuff. And some, They even take the time to make reusable seeded paper for swing tags, which then you can plant in your garden at home, which I think is really cute, but that's really expensive to produce. It's really wholesome. Like, oh, where did you get this flower?

Oh, it came from my t-shirt packet. So cute. How about another big part of me, and that is actually paying your workers? 100%. This is something that extends internationally, but according to Oxfam's What She Makes campaign, which I love. Bangladeshi garment workers were paid less than 40 cents per hour. Oh my gosh. Which equates to about $3.60 per day in 2018. That is way less than a living wage even in

Bangladesh because obviously some people will say, oh V, but you don't know what a living wage in that country looks like. That is a lot like, Bec, you're literally from Bangladesh. Yeah. I went to visit there once. My dad gave my grandma, I think it would have been maybe $50, but that was the biggest deal because they live quite a frugal life. But, yeah, it's not the case that, like, oh, everything's so cheap, so 40 cents is so much money. No, it's not. That's not the case at all.

Don't you dare come into my DMs about that. That is not a living wage. Yet it would only cost fast fashion brands less than 1% of the pricing for the garment that they're selling to pay their workers properly. Jeez. Isn't that disgusting? It's really disgusting. They're just choosing not to.

They're just choosing not to for 1% more. Disgusting. That is so bad. Meanwhile, the owners and the CEOs of fast fashion brands can earn a garment worker's lifetime salary in four days. Oh my God, that is so outrageous. Which I mean, isn't that much if you're only being paid $3.60 a day. But yes, it is actually insane because when we talk about that, a CEO of a fast fashion

brand can earn a properly paid worker's income in four days. And only one in 10 fashion brands in Australia actually pay a living wage to workers in some factories across their supply chain, leaving millions unable to earn enough to keep their families out of extreme poverty, which comes from legit research from the Ethical Fashion Report from Baptist World Aid. Insane. That is so- Insane and disgusting.

So disgusting. So disgusting. Like, I don't want to be part of that. And I think that that, again, massive privilege to be able to say, I don't want to be part of that and then exit that. But we could all try to make more sustainable choices where we can. But a living wage should be earned in a standard working week of not more than 48 hours by a worker and be enough to afford a decent standard of living for the worker and their family. But while these standards do vary, regardless of what the actual dollar amount is, a living wage

should cover the cost of food, housing, healthcare, clothing, education, transport, energy, water, and small amounts of savings for unexpected events. But unfortunately, there are many countries that do not have legal requirements, Bec, to even bother paying a leaving wage. And if they do, in many cases, there's actually just really little interest in following those and not a lot of repercussions for just not doing it. That is so bad. It's actually disgusting. So fast fashion has created this completely crazy parallel universe of expectation on seasons and also cost, right?

Yeah. Like, as we said before, there used to be two seasons. Now there are 52 seasons. And it's, from my perspective as well, really warped what we think things should cost. And they can take clothes to rock bottom prices only to be cutting a lot of the corners. And they use the cheapest fabrics and they pay the lowest costs for manufacturing, even if this means that there is child labor and slave labor in the supply chain. Disgusting. Literally disgusting. And it's interesting as well because historically fast fashion was basically all that was accessible to me and that's okay I think everyone most people have been in that circumstance and that's totally okay but as I started to earn more and you know try to make more conscious decisions whether that

is me trying to be ethical or just seeing stuff you know seeing a dress on Instagram that I really like and looking into the brand you start to look at it and remember this dress right like I'm known for a white dress like and maybe not publicly but like in my wardrobe is 90% white dresses I love them saw this white dress online that I really liked and I went to the website of the company and it was a small Australian designer like they were really little I'd just seen it on a friend's Instagram like not massive like fancy one like Dion Lee or Scanlon Theodore it was literally just a small designer and the dress was like $400 and I was like $400 that's a lot of money and I left it because I was like that's a lot of money for a dress I don't I don't really want to

do that and then a couple of months later the same creator like that designer came up on my TikTok explaining her process and her design and how she picks her fabrics and how long it takes and like she kind of took us through here's my studio and it's you know room at home and I make these dresses and how many hours it took and she like had distilled it down to not only do I you know I pay this this and this and she was really transparent and I can't remember I'll try and find it and link it but she explained okay well the fabric actually costs me this much and I don't have the means to bulk order it because I can't afford it so it's like you know maybe thirty dollars of fabric and then I have all of these you know buttons that then go on the dress and

they're kind of expensive because they're plated so that's another thirty dollars so that's sixty dollars we're sitting at and then I have to use this expensive machine and then on top of that I'm spending eight hours per dress to make them because you know it's got these beautiful ribs on the front of it and when you distill it down she's not making nearly enough for that dress but she didn't want to charge more because she really wanted to get her fashion out there and I ended up buying the dress after seeing that because I was like oh my gosh like I get it now yeah but it made me feel really terrible because originally when I'd gone to her Instagram and clicked on the shop thing and seen that the dress was $400 I was like that's too much that's insane

i'm not paying four hundred dollars for a dress no i know but but it makes sense right and i do genuinely believe that you know you said before this completely crazy parallel universe and that's what that made me think of because it really has warped what we think things should cost because that dress yes it was four hundred dollars but like she'd calculated her hourly rate and worked out like how much she makes and it was like thirteen dollars an hour which in australia is not a living wage yeah and i remember just being like oh okay well i do want to support her business i do want to buy that. I do want her to be successful. And the only way to success for her is to actually get into the hands of people. And yeah, it just kind of reminded me that fashion

is not meant to just be bought and, you know, wearing a dress once is actually acceptable. It's not like, I love that dress. I wear it all the time. You guys have seen it a million times because I just wear it in and out of the office. And like, it's one of those things, but it's also not only has our, I guess, mindset been warped into assuming that a $400 dress is too expensive. And again, just highlighting privilege, that is a very expensive dress. By no means am I trying to tell people, go spend $400 on dresses. It's more ethical. That's not what I'm saying. But cost per wear comes into it as well. Like I wear that dress all the time and that's actually the purpose. Like Bec, you shouldn't be buying a t-shirt if you're just going to wear it one time

with one outfit because you want to go out on a Saturday. We shouldn't be buying dresses so that we can, you know, wear it to our friend's wedding and then never, never pick it up again. I just think that there's this really weird idea and you guys know that I talk about you know re-wearing stuff all the time and I would love to think that I'm the queen of that I just can't understand why we need to buy new dresses for absolutely every single event we've had our international women's day events recently and oh my gosh Beck I felt like I made it a couple of companies reached out and said oh can we can we give you dresses to wear to those events I felt so baller that is so cool So cool. I said, no, I already have dresses. Like I already have a few dresses that I, you know,

in my head, like, cause international women's day is my favorite thing in the entire world. I'd been planning it for months and I was like, okay, cool. I have this dress and you know, there's this one particular dress that I'd worn a few times and really loved. And then my best friend borrowed it for like my wedding recovery party. And then like another friend borrowed it cause they'd seen it and Gabby's borrowed it before and used it. And I just really wanted to wear that cause it's a dress that I feel good in and I feel confident in and they don't understand why I would buy it, wear it once and then say, oh, I can't wear that again because I wore that and I was seen in that at some other event. Why is it like, can't we just buy a dress

that makes us feel good and wear it all the time? Because I still look good in it the third, fourth, fiftieth time. Yeah. I just don't understand. Anyway, so I'm not, that wasn't me trying to flex and be like, oh, someone said that I could have free dresses and I said no. It is cool though. But it really made me think because I was kind of like, okay. And I did go down that track of going, oh my gosh, this brand's amazing. Like I would love to go on their website and pick four random dresses for these four events that I have coming up. And I'm not saying I never buy new stuff, but I got to their website and found my mindset going, I need to find four dresses. I hadn't thought about that brand before then. I hadn't gone, oh, I really like that dress. I wonder if

I could work with them. Like they were just going to send me four random dresses and it just felt a bit wrong. Yeah. Does that make sense? That makes a lot of sense. Like it sounds baller at the start and then you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, when you really like knuckle down. Yeah. And like as someone who really wants to live their values as well, it felt nice to go, no, you know what, I really do like that. And hopefully even if one person in our community notices, oh, that was a dress that Victoria had already worn. Like I kind of like that. And they do the same thing. It's like small things in the right direction. Right? Absolutely. On that, V, tell me about cost per wear. I've actually never really thought about that. Tell me you haven't listened to all of the She's On The Money podcasts without telling me I haven't listened to all of our podcasts. But okay. So essentially, cost per wear is something that we talk about to reduce the item's cost or from my perspective, sometimes just justify

purchasing that item that maybe I didn't need. I'll tell myself, oh, but I'll get heaps of wear out of it. Cost per wear on this will be so low. But essentially, if you buy a $20 dress and you wear it only once, that costs $20. And that's actually not that great of an investment. But if you went and bought a $200 dress made of sustainable materials and you wear it 10 times, that's also $20 a wear. So you kind of justify it in a way, but it has less damaging materials upon disposal and it's better in all. And if you bought that $20 dress just to wear out one Saturday and you bought it online and it was in a sale and maybe you don't even wear it, who knows? that actually ends up costing you personally more than an item that you bought for $200

that you keep wearing and wear again and, you know, actually get a lot of wear out of. Because if you then get a dress that's worth $200 and, you know, you have it for five years and you wear it 200 times, that's a dollar per wear. It's pretty good, right? And it justifies the item in a way. Again, I do think we really, really set out to buy something once when we buy it. We justify it to ourselves, but it's an impulse. We might be late night scrolling. We might see something on sale and before you know, you've bought it or you know what? I have bought so many items that I didn't need because I was anxious. So like I might be anxious of going out to my friend's birthday on the weekend because when I was younger, there might be a boy there

that I liked or there might be like a new group of girls that I'm being introduced to and I want to make a good impression. And one way that I would lessen my anxiety was to go and purchase new item that made me feel good about myself. And I'm not saying don't do these things, but the amount of times I bought something that genuinely I didn't need is immeasurable. Like I would just buy stuff because it made me feel better. Right. And I think a lot of us, it's retail therapy, right? A lot of us use that as a tool to manage our emotions instead of just looking into like, why do I feel like I need a new dress? Like no one's going to judge me for wearing a dress I already have and already look good in. Why wouldn't I save that income? It's an interesting

concept. And I guess when clothes are priced cheaply, they kind of do seem like single use items. And it implies that our clothes are in a way disposable. And if we buy that message, I think it's really dangerous. And I mean, this cost per wear thing, it makes sense, but it goes back to that example I gave you earlier about school shoes. So let's say you're on minimum wage. You would love to buy something that's $200 instead of $3 because you want to get more use out of it. Also, you want to be looking at an ethical and sustainable brand. What do you do if you only have like $3 to your name? You can still buy the Kmart t-shirt and I don't think you should feel bad about it.

That's nice. I just don't think you should feel bad about that. I think it's all about mindset. If your budget only allows for that. I mean, there's lots of things I could sit here and be like, okay, cool. Well, you should be trying to op shop and you should be trying to thrift things. And maybe you could like ask a friend or you could like do a million other things, right? But sometimes you just need a brand new crisp white t-shirt. And if your budget is only allowing for you to purchase that from Kmart, I think the mindset around that should be more of this is what my budget allows. Do I actually need this item? How much wear am I going to get out of it?

checking items like that. I feel like I shouldn't throw Kmart under a bus and I'm not. I love Kmart as much as everybody else in the entire world. It's one of my favorite shops to go through. And I swear every time I go in there for one thing, I come out with 50. I am not immune to that either. Relatable. But like having a look at things and going, are they actually okay quality? Is this going to serve me? If you need that white t-shirt, does Kmart have a few options that you could have a look at and pick the best quality? One, not impulse purchasing things and actually purchasing things that you need. So I think sometimes, again, regardless of your income, we can all feel anxious about buying things and justify that we need a new t-shirt when maybe we

don't. Let's check if we actually need that item because it's not that common to walk into an op shop and get a perfectly crisp white t-shirt, right? We can thrift lots of things, but sometimes you just need something new and that's okay. And I think we actually really need to break down that barrier of buying fast fashion is terrible. I think buying fast fashion can be really bad and I want the industry to change, but it's not your personal responsibility. And I think that if that's what your budget allows, that's totally okay. I think it's more about your intention. If you're buying fast fashion, let's try and make it not disposable. Let's try and get good wear out of it. Let's make sure that we are looking after our items and washing them properly. And if they say

don't tumble dry, just don't tumble dry the item so it lasts longer and you're actually getting wear out of your clothes. Stuff like that, I think, is what we really need to be considering. And then as your income increases, maybe you can make more sustainable decisions in the future. Maybe if your budget does allow it, you can go thrift shopping and try and be a little bit more sustainable that way. But I just think that it's rude and it is disrespectful and it is a really cruel thing to make people feel bad for the financial circumstances they're in and say, well, I can't believe the only options you have are that you should do better. That's awful. That's awful. And we don't do that in this house. That is not who we are. That is not what we do.

What we do is understand the environment, understand where we are. And then if you're in the privileged position to have the budget that allows that, I think it is then your responsibility to not be buying fast fashion. I think you're the person that that is sitting on. So I put a lot more onus on myself. Should I be personally buying a Kmart t-shirt? No, No, I don't think I should be because I have the power of choice. I love that. And I think that that's a very big part of this and probably a really good place to leave it. Wow.

I feel so seen, Bea. Thank you so much for not making me feel awful for this. But I think it is worth mentioning that there are some affordable places that you can go that are also like ethically and sustainably sourced. And some of those just off the top of my head would be obviously op shops, which I'm trying to ease myself into. I'll buy you some Omo and some dead old wash and then you might feel a little bit better about it.

Thank you. Maybe therapy could be useful too. That's actually just really expensive. So let's not go down that route. Let's just do Omo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And with the fact that bulk billing in Australia seems to be less and less prevalent, maybe we'll just go with the Omo, yeah?

I'm scared of that. Yeah, let's just go with Omo. Omo, not therapy. Yeah, done. Oh, yeah, so, you know, obviously. Depop. I love a bit of Depop. I love a bit of Depop.

Love a bit of Depop. Oh, Marketplace is a very sexy place to exist. It is so good. But it feels a bit different to thrift shopping too because you can meet the owner. You are very weird in the way that you justify things to yourself. But I'm here for it. I support you.

No way, love it. Thank you. Look, I think this is a really good place to leave it. I think so too. I think we've learnt a lot. Do good, be good, but only in the breadth of what your resources allow. I think it is exactly it. Absolutely love that.

Love you, see you Friday. Love you guys, bye. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289.