She's On The Money - Financial Confidence for Our First Nations Community with Leah Bennett

Episode Date: November 28, 2025

This special episode was created for our First Nations community members. Victoria invited Leah Bennett from the First Nations Foundation on the show to talk through the realities, pressures and systems that shape money confidence for First Nations people today. Leah shares how history, culture and community responsibilities influence financial literacy, why trust in institutions can be hard to build, and the practical steps that can help you feel more in control. They also discuss superannuation, humbugging, accessing ID, and where to go for free and culturally safe support.Inside this episode:• The importance of culturally informed financial education• How history and systems impact money confidence today• Practical steps to start building financial security• What to know about super, beneficiaries and early access• Support available through financial counsellors and Indigenous banking teams• Understanding humbugging and setting boundaries that feel right for you FIrst Nations Foundation WebsiteFOLLOW: Leah Bennett on Instagram here. First Nations Foundation on Instagram here. Rich Blak Women om Instagram here. First Nations Foundation  on Youtube here LINK: We have created a blog with links for resources, support and education here.  Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Natasha Bamblett, I'm a proud First Nations woman, and I'm here to acknowledge country. Tii, gilinyan ganya, nianakaka yao yinbina waka, nianakai nianbina yakarumja, duminyagumiga dumiga ithawaka nirawamundamun imalan. Mumu bangada boma ininyalan waka, gaunan yakarumja, wutunarana. Hello beautiful friends. We gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people. we thank acknowledge and respect the aboriginal people's land that we're gathering on today take pleasure in all the land and respect all that you see she's on the money podcast acknowledges culture country community and connections bringing you the tools

knowledge and resources for you to thrive she's on the money she's on the money Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast that is here to help finance seem a lot more doable. I'm Victoria Devine and this very special bonus episode is just for our First Nations community and friends. We're going to be talking about the extra barriers you often come up against when it comes to money, and most importantly, the practical steps you can take now to feel more in control and set yourself up for the future. And to help with this episode, I am joined by an incredible guest, Leah Bennett from the First Nations Foundation. Leah is a proud Wiradjuri woman with over 14 years experience across superannuation,

financial services, and governance. And now Leah heads up the First Nations Foundation, who do amazing work helping First Nations people feel confident with their money and navigate the unique challenges that they face. Leah, thank you so much for joining us and making time to come on the show. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I am actually really excited about this because I know that a fair few people in my community have been like, I want more content like this. And I'm like, Celeste Queen, sit down. I'm going to go get Leah. She's going to help us here. So let's just dive in. I want to start by asking you to tell me in your own words about the First Nations Foundation and the work that they do.

Yeah, for sure. So FNF's actually been around for 25 years. We actually started as a credit union in Shepparton many, many years ago. So we celebrated our 25th year last October, which is incredible. And so over the years, FNF has evolved into what it is today, which is an organization that specializes in financial literacy its content is created by mob for mob and so culture is essentially at the core of everything that we do we have a number of programs everything from our financial fitness which helps mob go through the basics of budgeting we have our women's program which is one of our most important programs because that 87% of our participants are actually women. Anyway, so we were like, well, it makes sense

that we would do a women's program, which is everything from our own podcast, YouTube channel, we run women's workshops. We also have a new youth program that we're about to roll out for kids between the ages of 15 to 25. Because for us, we understand that getting in early with financial literacy as kids are leaving school and entering the workforce is so essential and so I'm so incredibly excited about that youth program as well. I'm excited about that on your behalf like that just you're right that's where we need to get them like we need to get you while you're young and set you up properly for the future. Yeah right like I was just in parliament the parliamentary sittings a few weeks ago talking about the need to update the curriculum at school

right because it hasn't been reviewed in a really long time and financial literacy is such an essential life skill for everybody financial literacy levels are at an all-time low in general so it's not just a issue that First Nations people are facing but it's a national crisis I would say so yeah being able to to get them while they're young and and set up those healthy kind of you you know, even for mob too, like healthy boundaries. Yeah. First Nations Foundation also does a lot of advocacy stuff. So advocating for mob, so understanding what mob needs. And I think most importantly to understand that every First Nations person's at a different place in their own financial literacy journey. And so we try not to come from a deficit lens. We really

try to empower our First Nations people to take control of their financial literacy journey and we walk beside them while we do that. Yeah. I love that. And I'm going to make sure that I get all of this into the show notes. So people don't need to take notes or like try and remember what you said, because we haven't even gotten into the crux of the conversation, but I'm pretty sure a few ears might've pricked up when they're like, Oh, what's the financial fitness course? Or, you know, what's this women's program? So all of the info will be in our show notes. You don't have to like stop and write notes. In She's On The Money, I would say one of the most powerful things we do is share our money stories on the show. And for First Nations women particularly, how do history and

culture shape the way that you guys relate to money and to services? And what are the first steps to rebuild trust and just feeling control? Gosh, that's such a huge question. Sorry, it's a big question. Let's start at the beginning. First Nations people have only been allowed to participate in the economy for the last 50 years. We weren't able to get jobs, open up bank accounts buy homes and so as a result of that like our financial financial literacy levels are significantly lower because even my own mum grew up in a generation where she wasn't part of the constitution right so people say oh these things happened like 200 years ago and i was like no no it didn't it's so recent like it's it is so recent but in saying that too then there

becomes this lack of trust in the institutions themselves and I mean only ASIC again have brought out a report on ANZ and some of the misconduct in banking there and almost every week one of the super funds or the banks are in the news because they're doing something that's harmful to vulnerable people within our community and not just vulnerable people but just customers in general so they're not doing all that much to kind of rebuild that trust with first nations people i think there's just been uh also like i think really important to note a lack of intergenerational wealth that i i think people don't even realize like for people that come from intergenerational wealth and i'm not saying that you come from a family that has millions and billions of dollars but to know that

If something went wrong, you could go to mum and dad and they could help you out or, you know, to pay the mortgage or to help with a deposit for a home loan or something along those lines. It just doesn't exist for First Nations people. And so we know deep down how far behind we are in the game and just trying to play catch up. It can be really overwhelming, but most importantly, this real sense of shame and around, you know, everyone kind of knows where you sit within the economy itself. people just naturally just assume that you don't know what you're doing. So even applying for bank loans or car loans and being able to have conversations at an institutional level that makes sense. Superannuation is a really good example of really convoluted, unnecessary language that's used within the system that prevents people from interacting with it. Even the average person

is like, sorry, what do these words mean? Oh yeah, we're already at a disadvantage, but First Nations people are at more of a disadvantage and it blows my mind that they don't take that more seriously or put more time or energy or effort into it because it's not like you guys aren't jumping up and down and being like excuse me I don't know if you noticed but yeah and I think for things I can because we run the Indigenous super working group so we took that over two years ago to try and advocate for the rights of First Nations people within the super superannuation sector and work directly with the sector itself. But superannuation, they just don't have any First Nations representation in the rooms having the conversations at an operational level.

So when we're talking about products and service and delivery, where are the First Nations voices in those rooms that are assisting with that? And so when you have a predominantly one demographic, I won't say all white men. I call them mediocre middle-aged white men. So like you don't have to be not offensive that's just what I call them as a base level but the reality is is that there aren't other voices in those rooms like you know even if we're talking about the rights of you know people with disabilities and how they access services and people that fall under that vulnerability bucket there is still so much work that needs to be done at an institutional level to help support First Nations people and there's instances I've heard or have been brought

to my attention where First Nations people have called up call centres to access a service but have been discriminated against or been made to feel ashamed or you know like made to feel like an idiot and so you're not going to call back up you're not going to interact with that and so yeah like it's just there's so much still institutionalized issues and again just dealing with the shame that we deal with internally as well I reflect on my own financial literacy journey like I didn't really know what I was doing with money I came from my mother who's First Nations raised my brother and I had low levels of financial literacy my own concept and views and relationship just my relationship with money and understanding that and I wasn't until

I was in my like late 20s early 30s that I picked up Barefoot Investors because I was just kind of like I need to start somewhere to take control like and I don't know who to trust and you know like started listening to podcasts and people talk about different things and to some degree that brought up a lot of shame for me internally to be like or should I have not already been somewhere else by this point in my life like yeah just trying to navigate that without the tools that I needed to get to where I am so there are so many challenges and barriers that are in the way and again community expectations as well that can be quite difficult First Nations people participate in a sharing economy and I didn't even know that there was a name to it I knew that I was

participating in it my whole life but it's a sharing economy and our concept of wealth and money differs to western society where western society is about the accumulation of wealth like I need to get more and more and hold on to it where one of the beautiful things about our culture is that we care for one another and so yeah like when money comes in you'll have mob come around and family and say oh I need money for this and it's just like a no-brainer you just do it because you care for each other and they do that in return but one of the problems is if not everybody is participating in the sharing economy it becomes humbugging it's financial abuse and so that becomes problematic for people as well so yeah there's definitely different layers

there's different layers for us on personal levels learning how to set healthy boundaries navigating resources that help us do that and deal with the internal shame that we face around those sorts of things, but also still how the larger institutions are kind of working alongside us to improve services. 100%. And you touched on this before, like you said before, it was only 50 years ago that you were officially allowed to participate in this economy, which is messed up to begin with. We won't dive into that, but money is already difficult. Money is hard for most people in general what additional barriers apart from the fact that you've been excluded for so long are First Nations women more likely to face when it comes to money? Yeah I mean there's a huge

portion of our women that are in DV situations right and so one of the things that one of the programs we have train the trainer helps support support workers community support workers to help provide financial counseling and to women especially who are navigating domestic violence situations so one of those things is I don't feel that I can leave this situation because I don't have the resources to be able to do that I don't have the money to be able to do that I don't know how to budget or you know this fear of being able to provide for your children right like it's terrifying as a concept yeah yeah and so like there's yeah one of the things with our training is really just trying to assist those women to give them the skills so that they can have the

confidence to leave and building up wealth for themselves so that they're not stuck in a position where they can't leave a domestic violence situation or even a family violence situation so really just giving them the skills they're also like community commitments right again like we're so very tied to our communities which is such a positive and beautiful thing like it's not something that I would ever advocate that we change as people but it's that you can be so tied down to community needs and requirements that you forget about your own well-being and so one of the things that I always I love about our women's program and talking to is how do you balance like protecting yourself and setting boundaries with community because you

can't pour from an empty cup, you also have to care for yourself. So it's so fine to love others and to serve in community the way that you do. But again, you have to take care of yourself and you have to take, in some instances, I've seen women give so much that they haven't had the ability to be able to feed their own children and look after their own needs. And that's where that healthy boundaries comes in. And I think that's so programmed into us. And I think in a society today where maybe balanced responsibility between men and women look different as well. Women are carrying a lot more burden. So yeah, there's definitely more cultural types considerations. Absolutely. And if someone comes to you and they say,

I really need help with money matters or they're suffering and you've kind of identified they're suffering from financial hardship, what is the first thing you recommend to them? Financial counsellors. Financial counsellors are a free service and they have the ability to work with individuals to provide support that they wouldn't normally be able to access and this isn't just for First Nations people. Financial counsellors are available for all people but Financial Counselling Australia actually have some First Nations counsellors that work directly with mob because they understand the cultural needs of First Nations people and so that can be helping them navigate some severe debt, could even be advocating on behalf of them, right? So,

a lot of First Nations people don't even realize that there's ombudsman, for example, right? So, what happens if there's some misconduct or something's happened to you in an interaction with the financial services sector? Who do you complain to? Where do you go? Ombudsman can support and can help with that. And I'll give you an example of a really good case. And this is why always say to people, go to ombudsman for support. One of my best friend's sister was in a domestic violence situation recently. Her ex-partner had set up a business fraudulently. She was essentially coerced into setting up a business, wrapped up $180,000 at Bassville. She's a single mom, just basically on Centrelink family payments. And the ATO basically gone after her for $180,000

a debt that's not hers. That's so messed up. She went to the ATO to prove she was in a DV situation that that wasn't her debt. They've ignored that. She went to them and they ignored that. Yes. Yeah. Correct. And then they also didn't provide her the correct vulnerability team that would be able to support her. And so I've been very, very vocal about this particular situation and there's a tax ombudsman, right? So there's an actual, I didn't think if anyone would know that it would be me but I didn't even know I was in a forum basically blasting the ATO in a in an open conversation and someone said the tax ombudsman's over there and I was like you're like where is he sit down yeah and they were so beautiful right like they were so helpful

to the point where we got notification last week that the ATO has wiped the debt and will not be coming up stop it good I was about to be like what can I do how can I help because like I can be vocal you just tell me what you need me to say girl yeah but like ombudsman's it's so useful and a lot of the time we don't even know they exist and financial counselors can help with that advocacy right like they can step in and go okay we're not getting where we need to go with this let's get an ombudsman involved in this situation and help them navigate that they provide resources and tools that a lot of people don't even realize they have and then can obviously help with things like budgeting and understanding finance. And, you know, they're not going to get into the

technical things like where should you invest your super, but they will help when you're in financial crisis and you need some help. They're always the first person I say go to. Yeah. We're not talking about, hey, like let's set up an ETF portfolio because unfortunately that's not going to work there. But I also think that even conversations like this are really helpful because, you know, you might not be going through a similar situation, thankfully, but now you know that the ombudsman exists and if you hear about another friend that's going through this you can be like oh my god so actually there's this thing and I don't know enough about it but I know enough to be dangerous and I can use google and we can work out what that actually

means and I think that that's where this sharing economy that you guys have is so beautiful because it's not just financial it's all about knowledge and skill sharing and like just there's so much beauty in that community talk to me a bit more about the first thing that you suggest so not necessarily people going through financial hardship or even like they're, you know, in these situations, just general First Nations people that come across FNF. What's the first thing you suggest that our First Nations community members do to just set themselves up for success when it comes to money? We always guide people to our online modules. So all of our content on our website is completely free for mob. So we have some online courses. You guys are so good.

I'm obsessed. Thank you. We have some online modules that people can go through. They're self-paced. So, you know, if you've got kids and you're, you know, you can try and juggle learning online and, you know. A hundred percent. Like life is busy. Yeah. You can, you can jump on when it's convenient for you. We have, yeah, a number of resources that are also just available on our website, on our Tomorrow Money website, which And it goes from everything like budgeting basics to how to watch out for scams and disaster recovery and, you know, all these sorts of stuff, you know, what you need to set yourself up. So if you're renting a home for the first time, what are some things that you need to consider potentially, you know, some home and contents insurance or just contents insurance, depending on your situation. we always just point people to the website first and foremost and for those people that want to

then get further information and do more of our workshops and we get them to register for them we also have our rich black women webinar series that happens i think it's monthly that's run by one of our fabulous trainers kienna so yeah usually it's just our online resources to get people familiar with the type of content too that we deliver that's cool like just the fact that you have like a rich black women webinar I'm like yeah get it queens I love this we've just recorded rich black women season three which is rich black women in business last Friday and I was inspired with this series because a lot of the women that I had interviewed on rich black women they all started where we all start kind of thing and then and I think sometimes First Nations

women go oh I can't reach that because I'm in a in a bad situation or whatever it is and I grew up in family violence. I've been in a DV situation and I'm 37 next month and I've owned my own business. I've sat on boards. I've done, and I never thought that I would ever get to where I've gotten to if you would ask me when I was back in that. And so it was really an opportunity to inspire other First Nations women who might be in difficult situations to still aspire to more if that's what they want to do. A hundred percent. And you're like so capable of it before and you were touching on, you know, something that broke my heart. You were like, oh, I started like learning about financial literacy and a lot of shame came up and I felt

like I was behind and, you know, I should be shamed by that. And I'm just like, no, like you're taking control of this situation where, you know, there are so many first nations businesses out there. And the coolest thing about them is we know that they weren't backed by intergenerational wealth. Like mommy or daddy did not turn around and go, oh honey, you want to start a business? they'll give you a hundred grand. Like you didn't get that foot up. Every single thing that you guys have done has been off your own backs and off community and off supporting one another. And that just makes me, I don't know, so proud by, like, I'm just looking at it going, you guys are killing it. I love it. And it's so cool because most recent figures show that First Nations

businesses contribute $16 billion to the Australian economy. That's not sole traders. that is businesses where they have 20 or more employees. So the numbers obviously way bigger than that. And it's just, yeah, it is inspiring. I think a new report will be, is due to come out at the end of this year, which I'm hoping those figures are just going to double or triple in. They are, they absolutely are. And like, that's, it's just so exciting. And I think that we need to be sometimes like you guys as a community need to be reminded of all this cool stuff you're doing because when it gets down to a personal level and you start like looking at a budgeting and cashflow and, you know, working out all this stuff that you were not taught in school. Cause as you said

before, Leah, you had to literally go to parliament to be like, by the way, your curriculum is outdated. Like this stuff isn't taught. So why are you feeling bad about content that you never laid eyes on? And you were already at a disadvantage for, because you didn't have parents who were financially literate. You didn't have people that sat you down and said, all right, well, Leah, this is how you budget. This is how you cash flow. Like, sorry, it makes me so mad that you had to feel shame through that process instead of going, wow, like we're not starting again. We're not starting from scratch. We're just starting from here. And like things can be better and things can be different and you can feel even more empowered. Like it should be an empowering

journey. And like, I don't know how to get from where that exists because we know it does to like every single person who engages in this content doesn't feel shame they just feel like oh my god this could be so good for me but the content that you create on a regular basis is doing that like I just know that the people that are tuning into rich black women they get off and they're like icons look at them go even your story I'm like look at this like this woman is absolutely killing it and if we went back and spoke to baby you you'd be like not possible sorry you just proved it wrong it's so good now just to see the young women come through too that are starting their careers and yeah just like the confidence that they have and that's yeah that is just it

inspires me all the time there was a story of a mum who'd done now one of our workshops and she's now teaching her babies like her little ones how to budget with their allowance and stuff and I was like that is taking your power back, right? Like that is going, okay, I might not have all the answers and I don't know everything, but what I do know, I'm now going to transfer that knowledge onto my baby so that they can have, yeah, more than what I did. And that's why we do what we do. It's so beautiful, isn't it? First Nations women retire with much less superannuation on average, with average estimates being around 61% less than the superannuation balance of non-Indigenous men. No, unacceptable. And obviously there needs to be not just change,

not just conversation, but systematic change. What can individuals be doing to put themselves in a better position when it comes to retirement? Because like, I mean, sometimes we're all just the same and talking about retirement is not that sexy. yeah no and obviously disclaimer this is not financial advice no no no it's okay there's a disclaimer on the podcast babe there's a disclaimer in my show notes this is just a conversation between two friends about tools and resources that you guys could access and hopefully a conversation that makes you go maybe I should think about retirement because you're right it's not that sexy but I actually am in control of this and I actually could put future me in the

best possible position and like maybe one day we might have some type of intergenerational wealth and we could brag about that. Yeah, I think there's a couple of factors that are contributing to this that can be early access to super, right? So in severe financial hardship and so people need to access their superannuation. The second situation is that women are obviously taking time off to have babies and then even when then babies go to school you know there's a sick day mum has to take time off she don't get paid to you know for those days and so she's working just far less in general which is obviously meaning that there's less contributions being made to her super annuation and women are take on more caring type responsibility roles within their community right

and that is that you probably spend less time working which obviously means that there's less at retirement. Each individual person's circumstances, they're going to be different, right? Like there's no one size fits all, but it's about what you can do. And I want to circle back kind of to the conversation, bring it back to myself. Like I had zero financial literacy skills whatsoever, but over time, really understanding the importance and significance of superannuation to empower myself, to understand how I can get the best out of it for my retirement. and that was talking to financial planners to understand how my superannuation should be invested because everyone who has a superannuation fund it automatically goes into a default

investment time and so most of us just leave it and we don't interact with our superannuation until we're getting close to retirement age and then by then it's too late so you're not getting compounded interest to the degree in which you might if your investments were allocated somewhere else. And so it's really important to kind of consider that while it seems so, so far away, that it is something that just having a phone call and talking to somebody to get some level of advice around your superannuation. Because at the end of the day, what your superannuation is invested in will dictate how much you retire with, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So talking to a financial planner around that because again everyone's individual circumstances are so different

based off of the work you're doing I mean some people make additional contributions into their superannuation and that could be a certain amount that could be within your budget that would be helpful a financial planner would be able to assist in in helping you kind of understand what that might look like and what might be reasonable and I think too I used to underestimate so much about even just putting the smallest bit away and investing it like yeah I've got money in some additional investment because I started investing I just became a nerd about it and I was like I'm so excited because like home ownership might not be an option for some people so I was like I want to learn how to invest like what's this about and you know I didn't even like even just the smallest

amounts like will still make a difference and I think we underestimate that so yeah just equipping yourself with the skills. There is systematic issues, legislative issues. There's things that need to have changes that are outside of our control. But for me, it's all about what can you control with what you have. And understanding too, I think one of the biggest issues in the superannuation sector is the fact that most First Nations people or a large majority of First Nations people will die before they reach preservation aid. So they'll die before they get to 65. And so then you would go, why would I care about this? Because that then becomes a legacy plan for your family, right? And so you putting money aside and taking care of this nest

egg, it's the first time in history you will have the opportunity to pass on intergenerational wealth. And having that then means that your family will be cared for after you've passed away. And you can make a plan for that. And I think a lot of people, I have spoken to a lot of First Nations people about that. And they're like, well, my mom died at 55 and my dad died at 62 and they never got to access it. So why would I care? And valid, very, very valid. But you're creating the legacy that your ancestors weren't afforded. And now we can make change. And that is so beautiful. And making a plan around that is so important. I actually this morning recorded the second part to my mini super series. I did like a two part thing on the importance of not just

being in your default portfolio, what you can do to check your super, how you can do it, because as much as your recommendation of talking to a financial planner is fantastic, it can also feel really out of reach because we can't all afford to go and get advice. The other thing I would say, and I'll put all of the information in the show notes. You guys are going to have a bank of resources in there. I do apologize. But the other thing I would say is if you have a super fund and you're paying super fees, which spoiler, you are, if you have a super fund, you can call your sub-annuation fund for free to discuss anything about your super balance, anything about the fund, their performance, your risk profile, what you should be investing in, what's going to put you

in the best possible position, all for free. So it's not necessarily free because you're already paying your super fees for it, but they're kind of non-consensual fees that you're paying anyway. So you may as well make the most out of it. And I would say that most super funds, you're not calling up the CEO it's just normal people who talk in normal language about these topics and maybe that's not enough but like it's a really good place to start and one of the things that we're advocating for at the moment is greater cultural competency within the superannuation sectors core centers so when our community calls up they're dealing with people that they feel safe have any armed youth right like they're not going to be judged and there's some support there

the superannuation has a long way to go but there is that support within the superannuation sector and i do want to just say too one of the things that we're currently advocating for so i've met with the assistant treasurer minister molino two weeks ago to talk about changing the legislation to include first nations kinship structures i was about to ask about that yeah i think you do it because I mean there's nothing that can be done at an institutional level that's a legislative requirement and it looks like they're really engaged and have appetite and really really interested in continuing to explore changes but it's not even First Nations kinship structures right I think more broadly how we view family today is very very different you know I'd like

to be able to leave some of my nephews some money and like that's a whole nother conversation around beneficiaries and finding beneficiaries and the importance of that but one of my aunties I didn't even know she wasn't even a real auntie of mine until like I thought she was my like my actual auntie but she was my mum's cousin and that's so common like it's just such a normal still related she's still in the club yeah oh she's definitely she was one of my favorite too but you know if she had to go up against the superannuation sector to say well I want access to the death benefits associated with this super, she would have been declined. And so I just want to assure everyone we're doing everything at First Nations Foundation to definitely advocate in these spaces. Legislative

changes take time, but I think it's important that we should feel encouraged anyway that change is happening and we have buy-in from the government, which is fantastic. Yeah. And I think that that's a really important topic as well, because I think it's so important that they are making the time and the energy and the space to discuss how they can make sure that your culture is respected when it comes to super. And it's just not, it's just not. And you're right in terms of beneficiaries, it's so limited. I had a friend pass away recently and she had listed her sister as her beneficiary. And even that isn't acceptable in the superannuation space, but you go, but it's my money. It should be my choice. Like what's going on here. So there just needs to

be so much done in that space. And I'm grateful that you're standing up and having conversations about that. Cause to me, that's more important than, you know, just a sister getting it, but like, sorry, you guys should have say over the money that you earned and where it goes and how it's distributed. It's not even just First Nations people. I'm not married and I don't have children. If I was to pass away tomorrow, where does, where does my money go? Because, you know, my kinship structure or the people around me that I'm closest to, if I haven't listed, if I don't even know that I have to list beneficiaries, which is like a lot of people. Most people don't know. Like genuinely, I was a financial advisor, so I know, but that's why I

know. And just the idea that then you would have to, and it becomes more complex and I don't want to dive too deep into it, but like the way that you would get that money to a friend or a family member or to your mum's cousin, who's actually your aunt, is via a trust and via nominating your estate and then having a complete will set up and a plan for that estate. But that's another complexity that you haven't had the privilege of understanding. And you can't expect people to just rely on that when the logical answer would be, hey, Leah, just log into your like super account and just nominate who you want to get your staff. Like, why is it not that simple? Anyway, I won't go on and on about that. So another question I have is for our First Nations community members

who actually have limited ID or like mismatched details, which then blocks them from opening up bank accounts or opening up a superannuation account. What do we do? What do you recommend that they do? Yeah, such a great question. And it's a really common challenge. I think it's really important to actually educate people on why certain identification is required to, so that people can understand. Cause some people are just like, oh, you know, what does it really matter. I think educating people is super important, especially with the processes that happen within financial institutions. KYCing is essentially a protocol that's put in place by AUSTRAP, which is a regulator to ensure that people are who they say that they are to protect

from money laundering and terrorism financing. So it's really, really important. It's important to protect you and it's important to protect our communities to ensure that criminal activity is not happening and so while sometimes these processes can seem really rigid and frustrating they are there to protect us but there is what's called an alternative forms of identification guideline that was put out by austrac to accommodate not just first nations people but vulnerable people in general say you're a person who has fled a domestic violence situation and you don't have any identification with you but you need to access your super or your like money from your bank or something along those lines those institutions have to comply with that

alternative forms of identification and so if you're mob and all you've got is a community card maybe you don't have a birth certificate or anything like that all of the institutions now should be in a position where they can use that alternative forms of identification and that could be to even if you're in a remote more remote community and you don't have access to the conventional services like um branches and all that sort of stuff or jps or police or anything you can actually get a referee form signed by like an elder in community that can say yeah i attest to the fact that this person is who they say that they are and so there are options there so if at any point you're ever turned down by an institution to say well if you don't have a

driver's license and all these are mismatching or anything along like that you absolutely you should be able to turn around to them and say, well, don't you have the alternative forms of identification? Yeah. And that can be really frustrating. And we've had a lot of DMs from people who have been in situations like that. Actually, I'm finding that it's more people inquiring and they're First Nations, but it's for like their parents or even their grandparents who maybe haven't had that before. Like I had a situation where someone was DMing me recently and they're like, I'm trying to set my mum up because my dad did all of it before and now he's not around anymore. Like, and it's the first time she's had a bank account in her name, but we need

it, obviously. She just doesn't have it. And being remote can be so overwhelming and you just think there aren't any options, but there are. So just, yeah. And I think that your website provides a lot of really good resources and like, just keep asking. Like, it's not embarrassing to ask if they say no, it's actually because they don't understand it and you're not in this position on your own? Like it's so common, like it's literally coming up as a question that I have put in the first episode with you because it comes up so damn often. Well, one of the great things at the moment, I would say pretty much most of the major banks have Indigenous customer service teams too that are specialised to help assist mob with phone calls. And I don't necessarily

know if everybody knows that, but if you say, for instance, were to call up your financial institution and say, look, I identify as Aboriginal and or Torres Strait Islander. Do you have an Aboriginal call centre or something that I can go through to? Most of them do. I know 100% that CBA, Westpac, NAB. I believe the big four do. Yeah. So if you have a situation with like identification or something along those lines, they should be able to help assist you in navigating those. But I think one of the biggest problem is the lack of awareness around those call centres existing in the first place.

we just don't know like why would you know to call up the bank and when you're talking to the bank be like hey is this relevant like sometimes you don't want to bring that up either but I think it's really important to just ask what's the worst thing they say oh no we don't have that I'd be considering changing banks yeah that's it so yeah I'm like going straight through to them and they've got the tools and the skills and that to be able to assist mob in any of those difficult situations. Yeah, absolutely. All right. I'm very quickly running out of time with you. I feel like we've had the best chat and I'm so grateful for it. So can you explain humbugging and share a couple of practical tips for setting boundaries while keeping strong relationships?

Because that can be really hard. Yeah. Again, it comes down to that conversation around First Nations people participating in a sharing economy. And when that sharing and the reciprocity, right everyone's participating there's this this give and take natural ebb and flow of resources in community that is a sharing economy it's where everyone is participating and humbugging is where you're essentially targeted because you're the primary breadwinner in community or in your family and we see this a lot with footballers right like they're on high incomes and then they go home to community and they're left with nothing we we know of famous footballers that have retired with absolutely nothing right and so that is that is humbugging it is when people are taking from

you and one of the great things about the first nations foundation financial literacy programs is we address a lot of that humbugging and how to actually deal with it we actually help you budget in kinship obligations right so instead of going this is not like you know like whatever whatever's leftover i'll just give out it's how do you budget in those kinship obligations so humbugging is financial abuse it's just what the term that we call it and um yeah it just happens when you're constantly targeted and you know then you're left with no money or resources for yourself and so it starts by i think the way to overcome it or the way in which we teach people in order deal with it is to remove the shame around it and to understand that there's nothing wrong with you

wanting to support your community that's a beautiful thing but it's also important that you protect yourself because you might end up in a situation where something happens and you need cash and you need a little bit of money aside one of the things that we help people do like I mentioned was actually budgeting kinship obligations so we'll go through the budgeting tool and then go you know like I know auntie comes to me every week for $50 to get x y and z or whatever it is and I know that this person does and I know that this person does and it's like okay well what can you realistically budget for with your kinship obligations whilst also putting money aside maybe you have $300 at the end of the week maybe you decide that 150 of that goes into

your savings your rainy day funds and then 150 of that goes to your kinship obligations right and just learning to say, look, I don't have 50, but I have 20 because I also got to give this person 30 or, you know, and kind of making sure that there's boundaries in place. It's not saying, no, I'm not helping you. It's saying, I will help you, but I will help you within these limitations and these boundaries. You know, maybe I can give you 20 this week and 30 next week or something like that. But you are always making sure that there is a portion of that money that's kept aside to kind of help you build up your wealth and do the things that you want to do while still, yeah, again, like being able to support mom. And it's a really challenging

situation to be in. And obviously I have not been in this situation, but I have had the privilege of talking to our community members who have been. And often you find, and like, I feel like this question is going to really resonate with the community that listened to this episode, because more often than not, the community I talk to in She's On The Money, who are First Nations women, they are the first to go to university and they're the first to be bringing in really large paychecks. Like we're not talking astronomical, but like they are seen in their communities as having a lot of money. And more often than not, sometimes it's not about other people taking advantage of you because they don't realize that that's what's going on. But like

you're so visible in your community that lots of people come to you and it's so easy to say yes and you want to and it's so kind and generous but we also live in a very modern economy that I need you I'm really sorry I really need you to have an emergency fund like you still have to pay your car rego we can't be going into debt for these things so there is a very beautiful balance that we need to find of kinship obligations but then also like making sure that your own cup is full And you were talking about that before, like you can't pour from an empty cup and you're seeing, you know, mums not even being able to feed themselves because they've basically given it all away.

And I just go, that human being must be so beautiful. But I also want to be like, girl, please stop. Like we need to have some type of boundary and it can be really hard to have those conversations. When I was in my early, very, very early 20s, left school and started working, I dropped out of work a number of times because I was like, I don't see the point because by the time it came payday I had no money anyway and I was like what's the point of getting up and going to work and then I started having to learn how to say no but to leave on that note that I had to realize that my kindness was also to some degree enabling really destructive behavior for other

people and so while for me I was like I want to give and I want to I want to be kind and I want to be generous and share because I know that I'm blessed to be in the position that I'm in And what I didn't understand was, yeah, to some degree, I was enabling some unhealthy behaviors in other people. And that isn't love. And so that's when I started to learn how to have those healthy boundaries for myself. And what did that look like? And that can be really hard.

Like, that's not just like, oh, get some boundaries. Like, that's a very challenging conversation. Because it's a process. Oh, yeah. And we could like have this whole conversation. You could go to a financial counselor and like they can give you all these strategies. And then when your aunt comes to ask for money again, you're like, yeah, that's fine. You just don't want to have the confrontational conversation like these things are challenging.

And I think that's why your services are so valid, because you're creating that space and that community where you can have those conversations and be part of it. And I just it makes me so excited that you exist. And I know that we're coming to the end of this episode. But of course, I'm going to put all of the details for the First Nations Foundation and every single resource that we have discussed in this podcast in the show notes for you. Leah, thank you so much for joining us and giving our community just such practical things that they can do with their finances. And guys, if you found this episode helpful, please share it with a

friend and don't forget to subscribe because we've got so many more episodes here to help you get your money sorted and they're all coming your way. Guys, see you next time. Bye. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289.