She's On The Money - FRIDAY DRINKS: Pandemic Office Politics

Episode Date: July 28, 2022

Here at SOTM we love Fridays because it's the time of we reflect on the week that was, commiserate/celebrate your Money Wins, and answer your Money Dilemmas! This week we answer a dilemma all about how to celebrate the little wins in life.Plus, the gals dig into a juicy chat about productivity in the office. Should the "working from home" flexibility brought on by the pandemic continue? Are there implications for not being "seen" around the watercooler? Listen into this interesting chat!Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are Authorised Representatives of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Today, my friends, is Friday, which means it is time to sit back with our friends with a bev in hand to unpack our favorite moments of the week. And of course, to celebrate you, our incredible She's on the Money community. As always, we're going to be sharing our favorite money wins. We're going to be discussing what's making news in the finance world. And we're going to help answer another one of our juicy money questions, which this week is all about celebrating the small wins, which we are all about here at She's on the Money. But first, as always, it is time to recap the week that was.

Miss Jessica Ricci, can you talk to us about our Monday Money Diary? Yeah, so this week's diarists self-described themselves as live in La Vida limbo, which really just got me hook, line and stinker. I was like, oh my God, that's 10 out of 10 for a title. It was a tongue twister though, like even when we were recording it, I was like thinking about it before I said it because I was like, I'm going to get this wrong. And I think I did in that episode a few times, but you're low. Yeah. So it was a really great way of describing something that I think a lot of us can relate to.

And she was saying that she had kind of hit autopilot on her life a little bit. She felt like she was doing the same things and not really achieving any progress on a few different kind of facets of her life. And I think that I really related to that because I've definitely experienced that in the past where you kind of just feel a bit stuck. You're like, oh, like I can kind of see what I should do, but I don't know what I should do. And she was feeling this in regards her finances, but also her career and her life. And I think it really can kind of bleed across. And so it was a really good, really relatable chat, I felt like, that I think a lot of people will enjoy. I think it was well-timed because Jess, you would have seen this as well, but there's just

lots of messages coming in via our Instagram DMs or our Facebook DMs of people being like, oh, I'm feeling a bit stuck or I'm having like a quarter-life crisis or what's this or what's that? And I feel like when you're going through that, you just look at everybody else around you and assume they've got their stuff together. Like I would look at you, Jess, and be like, oh, far out. Like she's doing so well. She's one of my girlfriends. I feel like we never see the behind the scenes of that, even though, Jess, you might be feeling

a little bit like you're in limbo. So I think it's such a good chat to have because it just puts things in perspective that we're never really going through financial troubles on our own. There's always someone going through something really similar. And that's, I guess, the beauty of the She's On The Money community. Georgia King. Hello. Wednesday's deep dive.

What did we do and how did we do it? We did a big fat Q&A all about insurances. That sounds terrible. It was good, my friend. So we picked and chose from the community. So we were answering your questions and we spoke about everything from the insurances tied up in super to income insurance. We had so many more questions to get to, but we were like, we need to put a pin in it because

this has been going for like 40 minutes. So we had to stop ourselves. But it was super interesting. And there will hopefully be a part two coming later on in the year. So if you do have more insurance questions, please send them our way and we will try and answer them in a later episode. Yay. I loved that. As much as I said, it sounds terrible. Sounds dry, but I feel like it became a really well-rounded conversation about insurance and the need for it and how it works and what it means because so many of us are just confused by it still. So there's probably more coming. Yeah, 100%. coming but georgia king it is time for you to share some of our budget direct money wins what

have you got for us this week i've got some money wins i've got some money losses i've got some money psas ladies so let's dive straight in the first one that comes from jane money win i got to work this morning to be told we're all getting a two thousand dollar bonus how good's that fear do we know what it was for just just just like just being nice yeah is that a thing oh I mean, I've never experienced it, but I'm going to believe our money, Doris. 100%. Well done, Jane. The next win comes from Kimberly.

Money win. I desperately needed a new laptop for uni slash work. I went to buy the one I've been saving for two weeks ago, but I decided to wait until I had a little bit more in my savings account. It was on sale this week from $2,000 down to $1,390. That's actually so good. Massive. Well done, Kimberly.

The next win comes from Kat. Money win. I'm currently on mat leave, so decided last week to go through my wardrobe and do a cull of the I'll fit into it one day clothes. No, we don't stand for those. They make you feel terrible. Get rid of them, ladies. And also the items she hasn't worn since moving towns almost two years ago.

These items went up on Facebook Marketplace along with some other things we no longer use. I'm now a couple of hundred dollars richer with a clearer wardrobe and house, which we love. Money win. Cat. The next one is a loss and it comes from Laura. Money loss going to Splendour. Oh, my God. Splendour in the mud.

Splendour in the mud. How was that content, ladies? Look, I'm not a festival gal at the best of times. But I was sitting at home on my high horse watching everyone's TikToks going, yuck, yuck, yuck. No chance of all the girlies who spent money on cute outfits to then ruin them. Oh, my gosh. Yes.

I saw Brooke Perry actually at Splendour in the grass, or are we calling it Splendour in the mud? and she was wearing a gorgeous it was like a sports girl outfit because she was posting it and tagging it she had these like tall cowboy boots that were white oh my gosh they look horrendous I'm like oh I hope that's not a brand collaboration because they're actually ruined but it did look like she had fun so I mean it would have been memorable if nothing else oh do you think that they'll get refunds on part of their tickets I know I don't know how it works because then I feel a little bit awkward because there's obviously vendors that went that needed

to be paid and like, oh, I feel like it's just actually a money loss for us individually. All around. All right. Let's move on though to Courtney. Money slash life win. I finally got around to getting my will sorted so there's less stress for the future. And I also did my tax return for the first time without the help from an accountant. What a queen. I saved the fees and I got a healthy return. Plus I put 100% of it into my savings for the first time ever. Oh, we love I love that. Huge. Here's the money loss slash PSA, ladies.

It comes from Hayley. Money loss. I bought two apples on the way to netball, forgetting that we were going to enter a fruit fly exclusion zone. Just my luck, the fruit fly police pulled us over and gave me a whopping $410 fine. You're joking. This is what happens when I make an effort to eat healthily.

What is this fruit fly exclusion zone situation? Where are we located in the world? George, I don't know. It's borders. So if you're driving between the borders of certain states. So I think you get it when you cross. I want to say up towards Albury. That could be very incorrect.

I feel like when I've driven up to Queensland way back in the day, there were like signs and stuff that said like fruit fly zone or something, you can't have produce. It's to stop the contamination of like produce going from one place to the other and, yeah, I guess I didn't know they had people policing it. I thought it was like a self-police to do the right thing type situation, but that's rough. Yeah, it's rough.

It's kind of funny but Hayley, I hope you're okay. Sorry, Hayley. Stick to the lollies and chocolate, am I right? Yeah, exactly. That was a really expensive couple of apples. The next one is a loss but it made me laugh. It comes from Ebony. Money loss, I'm having a baby tomorrow.

What? No, that's exciting. Although it's the biggest life win ever. That's what she wrote and so that was hilarious. Oh, the baby will be born now. Congratulations, Ebony. Congratulations, that's exciting. What do you mean money loss?

Babies are expensive. They're very expensive. And arguably, you've already been spending money on it. So it's not tomorrow that that's happening. The final win of today comes from Angela. It is a wholesome one. Money win. I purchased the budgeting and cash flow masterclass over the weekend, and I finished it on the

weekend because I'm a crazy person. I love her. I feel like I've prioritized my values, given every dollar a job, and I've created a realistic budget that won't have me borrowing money from other sinking funds or savings constantly. feeling super motivated right now. Oh my gosh. No, I love that. And she's probably not listening to this episode because if you've done the budget cashflow masterclass, I guarantee you're probably sick of my voice by now, but I might go and comment on that and congratulate her anyway. All right, G King, it has been so good celebrating some of your Budget Direct money wins. Budget

Direct, winner of CanStar's Insurer of the Year Award 2022. Budget Direct, insurance solved. And with that, my friends, let's go to a very quick break. And after the break, we are going to talk juicy money questions and what's going on in the media cycle. Don't go anywhere. All right. I have one. It's going to get the gals riled up. I can already feel it. So the content piece this week. Is it spicy? It is a little bit. I think it feeds into a really good, broader conversation though. So I want to talk about our friend Elon Musk. What a guy.

Not about Twitter and the absolute schmuzzle that that whole thing has become, but actually about a comment he made recently in the media regarding working from home. Oh, it wasn't even a comment he made. It was leaked. It was a sneaky media. Yes, that's right. And it was around the rules that are applicable to Tesla employees. He said, everyone at Tesla is required to spend a minimum of 40 hours in the office per week.

if you don't show up, we will assume you have resigned. And he sent that out in bulk to his employees. So, I mean, I have so many thoughts on this, but I thought it fed really interestingly into the broader conversation because a lot of workplaces have shifted to a hybrid or a fully remote approach. And there is calls from, you know, employees who are kind of demanding flexibility that has never been tabled as an option before. And there's some interesting reports coming out from people, particularly women, around the impacts that this may have on them and their careers and the expectations of employers. And I just thought it could be kind of a fun chat because the three of us kind of come from different perspectives with an employer,

an employee and a freelancer. So, you know, I think I have so many thoughts, Jess. I have tried so hard not to jump in here, but I want to hear your thoughts first. As an employer, I have thoughts, but I don't think I'm that traditional. So Georgia King, how do you feel about that? I want to fight, Elon. Oh, you're going to do a little fighty fight? Look, if I worked at Tesla, I would have yeeted by now. You would have yeeted. I adore working from home.

I really enjoy the hybrid model. I love going into work a couple of days a week, seeing my colleagues, but I love the freedom that working from home provides. I find I'm more productive than ever. Not having to do the commute is just a game changer. And I think this year has just been like, I am genuinely so much happier for having this hybrid model. And it's different to last year because it's not just home 100% of the time. Being able to go to the office when it suits you, it's really working for me. So yeah, I do not agree with Elon

at all, but I do understand that businesses, you know, we've gotten to this stage in the pandemic where it is now up to them to decide what they want their employees to do. I don't think he's making the right call, but I understand why businesses are making these calls, if that makes sense. Yeah, I don't. No, I don't get it. Like I just, I cannot resonate with that at all. I guess having come from a very corporate background where people would ask, and this was when I was employed, not when I worked for myself. So please don't think this was my team by any stretch of the imagination. But I remember people in my team asking for flexible work hours, or they'd say, oh, hey, like I'd love to be able to drop my kid at daycare. My husband does it all

the time or whatever. Can I come in at like 9.30 in the mornings? And like in my head, I'm like, yeah, okay, why not? Like that makes sense. Like, and I feel like often, especially women, and I guess this is what this podcast is like predominantly made up of is like our team's women and our community are mostly women. I don't want people to assume that that means we're only talking to him? Anyway, going on, I feel like women are far more likely to compromise when they're asking for work-life balance. Like they're more likely to be like, oh, I'll come in at 9.30 because I want to drop my kid at daycare, but I won't take a break and I'll work an extra hour. Like that's not how it works. Like we're meant to have flexible work hours. So yeah, make it up.

Like I think that that's important, but like often we're more than likely to offer something else because we think we're being some kind of burden by asking that when in reality that's not the case. So we need to cut that out. But I remember just being so baffled at the executive's decisions. They'd be like, no, we don't offer that because if we offer it to you, then other people will expect that. And I was like, okay, then other people will expect that. But the confusion from my perspective comes from, I guess, productivity. And, you know, let's be honest, if you're a hairdresser, can't usually work from home. Like you can't be like, oh, zoom in to my meetings. Like that's not going to work. There are some roles where you do have to be in person because

you might be a service provider or you might work in retail, or it might be a very specific office job that can only be carried out in an office because that's where that is. Maybe it's paper and pen and it's literally getting people to sign things and filing it away. I don't know. But from my perspective with a team that has done really well over COVID, I just, it baffles me to think that we haven't learned from that. And people are being so arguably cruel to their employees by not respecting that they have a life outside of their work. I completely agree. I will never in my life work for an employer who won't offer flexible work. And I think that the pandemic was a catalyst for what was already happening in, you know, a lot of industries, particularly

creative industries, tech industries specifically as well, have been really great about offering these kinds of perks. I think it really comes down to you need to trust your employees to do the right thing you know you need to trust that they're telling you what's best for them because some people will prefer flexible some people prefer hybrid some people might want to be in the office full-time because they like the you know really strict delineation of work and home and that's okay but I think the standard workplace nine to five is firstly set up for a subset of people that the whole rest of the world is structured for and it's neurotypical middle class people who don't have other responsibilities and typically men because they didn't traditionally

have caregiving responsibilities they didn't traditionally have all those sorts of things and I saw a really interesting article and I can't remember where it was or so forgive me but it said that men are more eager to return to the office than women because they were finding when they were working from home they were expected to carry a larger portion of the home duty burden And they have to see their kids more, Jamie. That's disgusting. And so I think it has further brought to the forefront, you know, the real divide that still exists in stereotypical gender roles

and stereotypical roles in terms of, you know, our neurodivergent friends, people have different needs that can be better catered to when you have flexible working options and beyond that, just better work-life balance. Like I have never felt a better sense of balance than when I was working four days a week, when I was working in a warehouse. And I was doing physical labour and I was doing all of these other really exhausting things,

but it worked really well for me. And I think we're going to continue to see industry shifting towards remote or flexible, shorter weeks, split weeks, all of these different things. And ultimately, I think as an employer, if your business has the capability to do so, because as you said, surgeons can't really work from home. But if your business has the ability to do so, if you're not providing those options and putting them on the table, you are going to see a significant decline in the quality of candidates applying for your jobs. Yeah, 100%. Because people just actually aren't going to put up with that anymore. Because for too long, I think people have taken and just accepted shitty pay, shitty hours, shitty expectations.

And now there are people like us standing up and saying, hey, like, actually, that's not good enough and you deserve better. And it's becoming almost a movement where people and, you know, you see the boomers talking about Gen Z a lot saying, Gen Z are lazy. They don't want to do this. They don't want to. No, they're actually just telling you that they're not going to take the shitty expectations that you did. And I think that's a great thing. Yeah. And I'm so sick of people saying, oh, but that's how I cut my teeth in this. No, no, no. This is 2022. Things are very different. But you brought up a really interesting point and I'm going to go off on a tiny tangent, but I think it's really relevant. And that's actually about our hormone cycles as

men versus women, right? So you said before, Jess, that the standard workday was created to suit men and you're absolutely correct because it was established when women were expected to be homemakers and never in the office and it worked for them to be nine to five, Monday to Friday, like that's how it worked, right? But if you compare and contrast, and there was a really good episode. I don't know if it's out yet, but it's on the Healthy Shift podcast by our friend Roger, who is in the Business Bible community and a very, very big advocate of She's on the Money. But he was talking about women's circadian rhythms versus men's. And none of you are going to be surprised, but men, their hormone cycle peaks once a day. Like they operate best nine

to five because they wake up, they have a massive rush of hormones. That's how it works. And then it tapers off during the day and then by 5 p.m. they're all good and ready to come home and ready to relax and go to bed and start that cycle again. You compare it to a woman and nobody is going to be surprised we work on 28-day cycles. You will notice in your body that there are better times during the week that you perform or better times during your cycle that you're really productive or you might be a little bit flat here or you might feel this or that because our hormones literally work different to men's. And I find it so interesting that we've just defaulted to working to their standards without really having been looked at as, all right, well,

how's Jess going to perform best? Jess performs best, honest to God, when she's given freedom. Like I know that about Jess. We're an office that works three days from home, one studio day, one office day. And to be honest, that office day exists purely to connect with the team. It has nothing to do with, oh my gosh, we're more productive. Can we come into the office? Can we do? We're not. We are so much more productive individually. I have ADHD. I'm a pest. I will talk to you. I saw a TikTok the other day about people having lights on their monitors of like, red, don't talk to me. Orange, only approach me if it's important. You would not respect the light. No, no, I've got no respect. Like I would choose colorblindness. I'd be like, hey Jess,

what's up? Like, do you want to go for another coffee? Like that to me is also really important in an office environment or a team environment, right? So I'm not looking at it going like, oh, Jess, I want you to be in the office. I'm looking at it going like, oh, Jess, like we have a positive relationship. I'd love to see you once a week because I really get a lot out of, you know, socializing with my team and getting to know them and having those passing conversations of like, what's going on in your life? Because, you know, when I jump on Zoom with Jess, often it's like, oh, Jess, all right, 10am, we'll jump on Zoom and we'll smash A, B, C, D and E out. Yeah. Yeah. And then we jump on and Jess is like, all right, so first gender item. We are

very business when we're at home, because I'm very respectful that, oh, Jess, you've got lunch break, like at one o'clock, let's work till one or whatever it is. I just think it's, it blows my mind that other employers don't trust their employees. And I think that goes back to their personalities, like looking back at previous bosses, looking back at previous people that I've worked with, like the type of person that from my perspective, obviously very anecdotal, didn't allow flexible work hours were also the type of boss to micromanage you because they genuinely didn't trust that you could do your job. Whereas I would probably sway to the other side and it might not be a good thing, but I just go, all right, Jess, I really trust you. You let me

know when you need my help and I'll check in and be like, how are you going? You'll be like, sweet. That's it. I think it's just different ways of working, but now people are really demanding in a way, good leadership. And I'm not putting myself on a pedestal going, I'm a good leader. I'm going, I think people expect this. People expect you to be trusting of your talents and trusting of your ability to learn. And, you know, I'm sorry if I'm dominating this conversation. I'm just really passionate about it. But I was having a conversation with someone the other day and it took all my strength not to jump out of the chair and have a very spicy conversation. It was in a group conversation. So I decided I didn't want to be that guy. But they said, if you want a job,

you work from home. If you want a career, you work from the office. And Jess, I feel like I could light a fire with whatever you're putting out right now. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And that's kind of where these conversations are going, going back to what we were saying earlier about, you know, women's career and the furtherment of that and that old school mentality of, well, if you're not putting in the hours, if I'm leaving the office at 5pm, I clearly don't care about my job because if I cared, I'd be here till 9. Like, it's so old school and it's a real shame to see that it exists so broadly because I really didn't think that it did and there's the conversation around you know for women particularly we know

that we're less likely to be put forward for advancement or for you know further education within the workplace and all those kinds of things and then people are now having conversations around oh well if I'm working from home does that mean that that gap is going to widen even further for me as a female because now I'm having less touch points that maybe my old school boss thinks that are really important and he's going, oh, well, she's not dedicated. She doesn't want that next job. I'm going to put Timmy in because he's here four days a week. And it's about how do we avoid that, I guess, but how do we also kind of help to shift that mentality? Because but in C doesn't equal passion, productivity, or any of the other things that are so important to having

an employee who is great at their job. It gives me the ick. It honestly makes me feel yuck. And you see on, I don't know, I watch a lot of TikTok guys. I don't know if we're on the same side of TikTok or not, but I see a lot of employer content, inspirational stuff. And they talk about things like, oh my gosh, employees are so much more productive in the office. Prove it. Prove to me that they are. Like we're saying these things. Can you please show me that your employees are more productive in the office? Have you done that research? Like, have you got statistics to show. And I mean, it might be very easy in a circumstance where you're a lawyer and you charge every seven minutes and you can unequivocally go to a spreadsheet and say, okay, Jess is more

productive in the office. And I think that's a very fair conversation. If I could sit down with you, let's use you as an example, Jess, and be like, hey, look, here's your productivity when you're in the office versus out of the office. See why I might want you in the office. And you go, yeah, okay, no problems. However, that's not the case in my circumstance. And I think that's not the case in a lot of people's circumstances. They're just not willing to look at the fact because it makes them uncomfortable. People don't like change. People like control. And a lot of people who, you know, are in management positions love control. Please don't get me wrong. I do too. I'm very controlling of my circumstances, but I think you need to see it from both perspectives.

I know that as a small employer, one of the best selling points I have is my ability to be flexible. like great you're a working mum fantastic great you want to work part-time great let's try and make that a job share I'm looking for the right people for my organization and I would hope that they're trying to match with me because they're the right people to work with us and I respect that however a lot of bigger employers go oh well we are a big employer we we have the label we have the name we can do whatever we want and that just gives me the ick guys well that's what I was going to touch on next fee like is there a difference between the way that small businesses run and the way bigger businesses run perhaps when you have you know hundreds of employees it's easier just

to slap this blanket rule down and say you have to be in 40 hours a week otherwise you don't work here anymore like is that can you kind of emphasize with that or is it just look I guess to play devil's advocate here during COVID particularly and coming out of COVID and talking just in friendship groups and seeing what's going on like yeah there are a lot of employees taking the absolute mickey like they are doing the bare minimum to do their job and I think that that is hard because it reflects badly on other people who are super productive and work from home and it kind of like spoils it for the rest of us don't get me wrong we're acknowledging that people do take the mickey i mean how many tiktok videos have you guys seen probably not you george because you're

never on socials but people setting up those mouse mover things so they always look like do you know what i'm like i don't have the time to do that best like but they set up these mouse mover things to move their mouse around so that they always look present on slack or on like microsoft teams so you don't look like you're away from your desk and that's either super toxic because you should be taking breaks or you're probably slacking a little bit and that's fine, but that's what's spoiling it for the rest of us. And I think that's where big businesses actually owe their employees the, not privilege, but the grace of not seeing them as a number and actually seeing them as Georgia and looking at Georgia and going, Georgia, how are you working from home? How is

this working? And then having a really honest conversation with you if you're not that productive. Hey, Georgia, you're not producing the same amount of output or the output that we would anticipate. How about you come into the office and try that out for a while and see if that fixes it? Because at the end of the day, if then coming into the office doesn't fix that output problem, the problem could be with the employee. And we actually need to talk about whether they're the right fit for the role, not necessarily whether they're slacking or not. Like, I think it's just really unfair to put blanket rules in place in saying that. Like, let's think about cheese on the money. Imagine if we had a thousand employees and we consistently

saw people just slacking. I think you and I just would turn around and be like, all right, we'll get them into the office like that's the easy outcome but that's actually not the kind outcome is it like we need to spend the time and the energy and the effort to go on an individual basis does this work also surely like it becomes pretty obvious especially working within teams who's slacking off and who's producing the goods like you can you can tell just my last point on this was I was talking to a fella a fella he's a man at work the other day and we were talking about working from home. And I said, like, to be honest, I still feel kind of guilty when I work from home. Yeah. And he was like, guilty? What? I was like, do you? He's like, absolutely not. I've

never felt guilty about anything. But I was like, that's interesting. I wonder if that's a female thing to kind of overthink on that. 100% it is. My partner, Steve, works from home, I'd say 90% of the time, he's got no guilt. Like he just turns off and goes, does PT or whatever he does in the end. I don't keep track of his life, but he goes and does his own stuff. Whereas I would look at, you know, someone like Eugene, you're like, oh, can I go? Like, yeah, of course you can go. Like it just, it's an interesting conundrum that you find yourself in. But like, even just reflecting on my experience, I'm a business owner. My partner, Steve is an employee. He worked way more hours because he's just at home. There's no commute time. Like he wakes up in the morning,

we'd go for our walk with Lucy, get our coffee and then go home. And he'd be like, oh yes, it's like 7.45, got nothing better to do. Jumps on the computer and starts work then. Like they never got that from him before because he would time his commute to make sure that he was at work on time. Right? And like you're being quote on time, but it's just convenient, right? Well, I think people are more likely to be flexible when they're offered flexibility in return like if you're absolutely right like if I'm working on something and it's 5 30 I'm not just going to be like oh well time to see you later like clock off shut the laptop like I'll finish what I'm doing because I go oh well I don't have to spend an hour and a half in the car in the

traffic going home like it's so much easier to just finish what I'm doing and I would argue that a lot of people are the same I feel like a lot of people listening to this are going to really resonate and go oh I feel really guilty too like drop that like you are still dedicating your time energy and effort to that company. And I find, like you said before, Jess, like, oh, I don't see the clock and say 5.30 and get up immediately and be like, we're done here. Like you finish it off, right? But on other occasions, you might be like, oh, it's five past five. Like, do I start another task that's going to take me two hours? Or, you know, I've had a bit of a day. I'm just going to call it here and flick through my inbox and make sure that I'm across everything and maybe

not use that as productively. Because I think that productivity comes in ebbs and flows. And I'm a very big believer, like Jess, I've said this in the office so many times. Like I remember one of our team were like, oh, I have a headache. It just takes a minute. I was like, go home. Like literally, I am not saying this because I'm thinking that you're a silk. I'm not saying this for any other reason. Then you're not going to be productive. You're going to sit at your desk, you're going to stare at your screen and feel really bad about the fact that you're not being productive. You might've been present, but present doesn't equal productive. Go home. Like don't even bother with sick leave. I know you'll make it up later. Like it is what it is. And I feel like my

team are very respectful of that. And I'm going to be honest. I feel like the more freedom I give you guys, the more respect comes back, the more time and energy and effort you guys actually put into your roles. And I've had to literally get on Slack and be like, Jessica, it is 8.30 PM while you're online. And Jess will be like, oh, I'm just flicking through your book stuff and having a look, I'm just really interested, just got sent through. And I'll be like, Jess, go to bed, go do something else. And, you know, I think that's a very nice problem to have where your team are very committed. I also think it's an employer's responsibility to make sure that they're not abusing that circumstance where Jess is working late. Like we need to call that out

too and be like, Jess, what are you doing? Unless we're both working to a tight deadline and I'm like, oh, take a day in lieu or whatever it is because we work to midnight to get this done. I just have a lot of thoughts on this and I just think that currently that's unacceptable. Good chat, ladies. It went so many places. I loved them all. The circadian rhythm, the dodgy bosses, like it was a lot. Guilt, we really covered it all.

But shall we have a little listen to a money dilemma? We'll love a money dilemma. Let's go. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's On The Money team is here to help. Every week we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to

our website and leave us a quick voice recording and you may just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to today's money dilemma. Hey, she's on the money team. I was just hoping to get some tips and tricks on how to celebrate the little wins and how far you've actually come throughout the year, even if it's not reflected in your savings account. I know coming up to the end of financial year I see a huge number that's come through my account and I really struggle to see where I've spent that money I struggle to um celebrate the little wins I know I've paid debt I know I live alone but um just because that number's not in my savings account it really gets me down so I was hoping that you guys could share anything that you have for me that would be

great. Thank you. Oh, this is a really wholesome one. It is. Georgia King and Jessica Riachi. How do you guys celebrate the small wins? It's a good question. Firstly, I would say that I really resonate with her saying, seeing that like lump sum coming through when you get your tax back. Oh, depressing. And being like, that's not in my savings account. What have I spent it on? But you forget that life is expensive you got rent she was paying off her debts as she said but life as we've been speaking about on the pod for the last few weeks slash months life is so expensive at the moment so don't beat yourself up about that but in terms of celebrating the small wins I mean I'd be partial every now and then to a little little fashion purchase yeah not too ridiculous but

you know maybe a couple a hunch every couple of months that is a gross underestimation of probably what I am spending on those splurges. Let's not talk about it. Just, I think it is important to allocate that money, as I think I said last week on the podcast, so that you don't feel guilty when you are spending. Super important. But beyond that, just little things like going for cute walks, running baths to say, I mean, I have a bath most nights, so maybe that's not a good example. I actually don't really have any good answers to you. I know. What a horrible girl. Jayrigg, what do you do to celebrate the small wins? I was going to kind of agree with you. Like, I personally don't really celebrate the small wins and not in a, oh, like, poor me, I don't

celebrate. Like, it's just not something that I need to do. Like, I'm very goal-driven. Like, I'm very task-driven. And for me, the satisfaction is in seeing my progress. And that's what makes me feel good. Not to say that wanting to celebrate is a bad thing at all. I think it's a great thing.

I would say, yeah, like, a little treat-yourself moment, like, particularly if we're talking finances and you've been working towards a financial goal. I think if you've been paying $50 a week off of your debt and you've paid off your debt, I would give yourself another week or two weeks to still save that same $50 and then buy yourself a little something, something, you know. I think definitely treating yourself, particularly if you've been doing something where you've been a little bit more restrictive is a great thing or putting it towards a bigger purchase, you know, like saving towards a holiday or saving towards something like that.

But it's really hard because I think it is a very personal thing. And, yeah, for me, I'm not a big celebrator because the joy is in the progression that you make. And I totally get, as you said, the disappointment when you go, oh, my God, $50,000 has just disappeared. Where did it go? And I think that is really, yeah, about recognizing that it went on something. And if you have a good budget and cash flow system in place, you should actually know where that went. Like I can say, hey, I know that I've spent $12,000 in rent this year. Like that's just the reality.

That's between me and a partner, so not just me. But, you know, I... Oh, that's pretty good though. Yeah, like it's... Oh, it's pretty good rent. Yeah, and it's kind of like you go, okay, I should kind of, if I break it down and think about it, be able to go, oh, a lot of that went to food because food got expensive or electricity because I've been working from home.

So just don't feel guilty. Like, you know, as long as you have that good system in place, you should be on top of it and hopefully you know what you're doing and, you know, have faith in what past you has done and what future you will do. Yeah, I really like that. I think from my perspective, I had a turning point, maybe like you were with me when I had this, it was like 12 months ago. And I was like, this is a joke. We celebrate nothing because I'm like, okay, onto the next thing. Like we need to move on to this. And to be honest, yes, let's

acknowledge that I was achieving some pretty big things. Like I did my book and we, you know, had the podcast and there were like lots of quote big things happening, but I was so focused on the long term that I wasn't celebrating the little things along the way. And when I reflected on it, I was like, well, what memories am I making? And what are the things that actually made this beautiful? And it wasn't, you know, achieving an award, please don't get me wrong, super grateful for it. But that wasn't the big thing. It was like the journey along the way and like us celebrating the small successes with this second book, right? I'm writing it. And now Jess, our team are really celebrating like the final draft going in and like we, as the She's On The Money team, it's probably

driven far more by me because Jess, you're always like, yeah, okay, no problems. Like you don't seem to mind. But I feel like then when we look back, we're like, oh, we did go out for a nice lunch or we did do this and we did do that. And it's kind of for me about, I want to look back on my life and go, I had a really fun journey. Like it wasn't always about the really big things. We obviously should be celebrating those too. But I think it's about the journey, like breaking down your big goals into smaller ones to celebrate them, even if it's like a walk and a coffee. And I think it's a lot from my perspective about mindset. It's not necessarily about, you know, achieving the thing and celebrating it because we all have very different, what would you call it, like love

languages in terms of the way that you like to celebrate G and you like to celebrate Jess and I like to celebrate like those things and our preferences are all very different. And obviously we want to be respectful of that. However, I think really breaking it down and going like, oh what kind of memories do I really want to reflect on and if I got out of debt and Jess you've spoken about it on the podcast before where you got out of debt and you were like it was really anticlimactic like you paid it off and you're like oh cool that's nice like is there something you would have done differently there to celebrate that or is that just the experience that you're like oh it just wasn't as exciting as I thought it would be I think for me again

the joy was kind of in going oh like I've paid down the debt like I yeah like I don't need to have something material or an experience for me personally to enjoy that moment like I it was anticlimactic but I think not because I didn't celebrate it I think it was just because it had been such a big goal and I got there and I was like oh my god yeah exactly right but no like I do look back on that moment with a lot of happiness because it was something that I had been working towards and that's where my passion and joy comes from but there are some people that you're right like they want to go out to a dinner or they want to buy themselves a little piece of jewellery. And no matter what it is that does it for you, that is so great. I think it's maybe just

taking some time to figure out how you personally like to celebrate and then giving yourself permission to do that for those small wins, not just the big ones. Because that'll keep you on track for your next goal, right? Exactly. 100%. And it sounds a little bit fluffy, right? But I do think it goes back to things like love languages and really understanding yourself. And I know what makes me really happy. And I would be so excited if I was like, hey, Jess, I just achieved this thing. Do you want to go for a walk and grab a coffee? It's mindset. It's actually going, oh, I'd love to share this with my friend as opposed to, you know, a big thing. Because you could give me a big thing and this is going to sound really awful, but like, I'll just

go, yeah, okay, cool. Like that's nice. Unless I have some kind of achievement associated with a big ticket purchase. And this is where, you know, historically I've spoken on my Instagram account. I have bought myself pieces of jewelry before. I couldn't like, don't give me a really expensive piece of jewellery without any meaning behind it, it means nothing to me. But I bought myself my very first pair of pearl earrings when I got my first full-time job and I had my very first paycheck. I was like, oh, this is big girl purchase. Like to me, that was important. To other people, you'd be like, what the hell, Victoria? Like that, what? No, I want to save my first paycheck. And let's be honest, current Victoria wouldn't do what past Victoria did,

but these are things that made me really happy. So I think you're right, Jess, just break it down, work out what you want and how you want to celebrate it, because my version of celebrating might be your version of hell. We're also all super proud of you, dear listener, if that helps as well. A bit of praise from the girlies. Congratulations on all you've achieved. Go put whatever you've achieved in our Money Wins thread. We bloody love reading them. We read each and every single one of the comments that go in there. Please go and pop it there. People put in that they got 50 cents off their coffee all the way through to paying off 50 grand worth of personal debt and I'm here for every single one of them, honestly. But guys, we've gone on and on. I think

that is all we have time for today. Let's do it. The boring but important stuff. Guys, please remember the advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Devine and Cheese on the Money are authorised representatives of In Focus Securities Australia, Proprietary Limited, ABN 47097797049, AFSL 236523. See you next week, guys. Bye.