She's On The Money - FRIDAY DRINKS: The Gender Pay Gap & The Patriarchy

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

Hey hey it's Friday, so kick back with gals as we recap the week that was, commiserate your money losses AND celebrate your money wins! And we answer a Money Dilemma about saving for a property with Salary Sacrifice, the First Home Super Saver Scheme and Superannuation.Plus...the gals talk about the ATO's latest statistics comparing income for men and women who perform the same roles. The only question we really have is...how on earth can people still think the gender pay gap is a myth? Don't miss it.Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are Authorised Representatives of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

hello and welcome to she's on the money the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My friends, today, unsurprisingly, is Friday, which means it is time to sit back with the girls with a bev in hand to unpack our favourite moments of the week and, of course, to always celebrate you, our incredible She's On The Money community. As always, we're going to be sharing our favourite money wins, we're going to discuss what's making news in the finance world, and this week, we're going to be helping to answer a juicy money question this week all about the first home super saver scheme. But before we get there, it is time to recap the week that was. As always, Ms. Jessica Ryuji, what happened on Monday?

This week's diarist was kind of an interesting look at the experience from both sides. So she grew up in a really privileged family. However, in her, I think it was her teenage years, they lost their income, they lost their success, and she found herself on the other side of things where she was all of a sudden going from being really privileged to living a much more difficult life. And so it was very interesting to hear from her how that impacted her money story, because now she says as an adult, her career and her stability is something that she really, really valued, which I thought, you know, sometimes we talk about how when you grow up with privilege, sometimes you don't see the value in things. And so that experience

kind of had the opposite impact where she said, you know, sometimes that's what she's thinking about is the security and making sure that she's set up because she never wants to find herself back in that position that she first was in when she was younger. That sounds juicy, J-Rick. So interesting hearing from both sides, like having been through both. It was really interesting. And as an adult, she works as a work cover case manager. So it really came through how empathetic she was and how much she cared about ensuring the security of the people she was helping as well, because she kind of knew what it was like to be in a tough spot, which I thought was really special. On that Jess, in a couple of weeks time, we actually have a deep dive coming

up all about financial trauma. So I feel like that could kind of be a nice complimentary piece to that money diary. Oh, I'm excited to listen. Yes, coming up. Speaking of Wednesday episodes, Miss Georgia King, what happened this week? We spoke about the very exciting theme of recession, which was terrifying, but I think we bashed it out. We understood that it's not that scary. it's a little bit scary. It's not scary, Georgia King. We've been doing this for so long. It's not scary. We just don't have enough information yet. Exactly right. So hopefully that kind of gave people some clarity. And then next week on the show, we're actually talking about preparing your finances and yourself for the looming recession. We think it's looming. It's not

confirmed because we can't actually predict these things. Am I right, V? That's what I learned in the episode. But some really smart economists are saying it's coming. But in saying that, our politicians are like, no, no, no, don't worry, don't worry, guys. So who are we going to believe, the politicians or the economists? I'd go with the economists. Yeah, look, me too, but like, maybe I'm biased because I just like stats and facts and data and not people pleasing. So strange. So just to make that really clear, guys, the best way to listen to the episodes we have coming up is to start with this week's because that explains what a recession is, what the GFC was. It provides that context. It's got the base. And then next week, we're going to be telling you

exactly how you can navigate the rocky waters ahead. Rocky waters. That's not the right expression, but we know what I mean. You know what? We're going to take it. All right. Moving on from the week that was in the She's On The Money office, I want to know about the She's On The Money community.

Can you share with us some of your budget direct money wins? What have you got this week? Of course, I can. Some absolute crackers as usual, ladies. The first win of the week, it comes from Sarah. Money win. I was cleaning out my cupboard and found an old going out bag I'd forgotten about. And it had $200 cash inside.

$200. Who comes home from a night out with $200 in it? It's impressive. It's very impressive. Nobody does that. What a money win. Huge money win. And the bonus win of finding your old going out bag.

We love it. The next win comes from Selene. I found a huge monstera plant hidden at the back of the nursery for less than half the price of what it usually is for for that size. Your money win. It's $25. What? For a monstera?

Hot deal. Yes, yes, yes. Very nice. Very nice. The next win comes from Gemma Money Win. I entered a competition to try, review and keep a barista coffee machine worth nearly $1,000. Oh, very nice. I completely forgot about it and came home from working a 13 and a half hour nursing shift

to a large delivery. I thought maybe I had a secret admirer, but turns out I won the competition. How good is that? Oh, how good. Win a $1,000 coffee machine. Got to be in it to win it. That's it. Well done to you, Gemma. The next win comes from Rachel. I found no limit street parking 750 metres from my work. That means I save $12.50 a day and I'm getting some extra steps in. That's huge. That is huge. I love when you get extra steps. I make my team

get extra steps by walking places. But since we went overseas, Jess, I reckon we need to use those lime scooters more often. They are way more fun. They were very fun. I need steps if I'm on a scoot. Did I tell you guys that Harper broke his wrist on one of those? No. Yeah, but he was drunk and it was 2.30am, so I kind of deserved it. Poor Harps. Poor Harps. Sorry, Harps. The next win comes from Annette. Money win. I got a free bus ride to my book club's dinner as the Mikey readers were all broken. How good's that? We love a broken Mikey reader. We love to keep the money on our Mikey cards as well because I feel like it drains all the time. It does. I feel like it's every second day. I have automatic like top ups on, right? And I feel like I get a notification

from Mikey like daily being like, I have topped up your Mikey. It's very expensive. Stop it. Stop, stop taking my money. The next win comes from Audrey. Money win, I landed a full-time job. Short and sweet. Congrats. Well done, Audrey. The next one comes from Amara.

I started DoorDash this weekend. I worked six hours on and off and I earned almost $300. What? $44 an hour, she said, and she was really proud of herself. I'm really proud of her. I didn't know it was that lucrative. I mean, I'm pretty sure it's all about, like, capacity. like if you're doing a fair few deliveries, but you might like sign in sometimes and like

not be able to get that many because people aren't ordering that many burgers. So I think it's dependent, but like that's pretty good. And on average, that would equal out to a nice amount of money, especially as a little side hustle guy. The final win slash loss today comes from Jade. Guys, it is a loss, but it is very wholesome. Money loss. I paid for a stranger's Uber because he was an elderly gentleman who was lost. I gave him my number so he could call me if he needed me, but I made a friend out of it. So I'm going to count it as a win. I think that's a win. And what goes around comes around, right? Exactly. Pay it forward.

Like there's some good karma coming your way. I would say that's not a loss. I would say that's just a nice thing to do. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Not a loss. That's a win. I'm celebrating that one this week. Georgia King, as always, it has been great celebrating some of your Budget Direct money wins. Budget Direct winner of CanStar's Insurer of the Year Award 2022. Budget Direct insurance solved. All right. With that, my friends, how about we go to a very snappy break? And on the flip side, we're going to talk about the first home super saver. And we have some gender pay

gap stats to share with you. Don't go anywhere. All right, guys, the ATO recently shared some information around the top paid jobs or specifically the top paid jobs for men. And then alongside that, they shared a comparison of how much women in the same role were making, which I thought was really interesting because historically, when we have spoken about the gender pay gap, it's not real. I don't know what you're talking about. Wasn't this debunked years ago? We get met with a lot of resistance, I would say. And I thought, you know, the ATO is obviously the Australian Taxation Office. So they would have the best, most accurate, most up-to-date information when it comes to income in these roles. Absolutely. It's August

now and all of your employers submitted your income information at the end of June. So those stats are pretty up-to-date, guys. Yeah. So it seems pretty legit. And so I thought maybe I could run you through the top five or so and then give you the interesting insight into just how significant some of the gaps are in those industries. The thing that annoys me most, we were talking about this off-air before we got here, is I know you're about to take us through it, but there was not one area on that top paying role where a woman out-earned a man. Yeah. What the hell, guys? It is. It's pretty wild to think about. And if you want to have a look, definitely head to the ATO website because they put it all together in a nice little graph for

those of us who are visual learners. Maybe we'll pop a link in the show notes. Yeah, and we'll pop some stuff on socials as well because I think it's really important to talk about this. Yes. So starting at the 10th highest paying job for men, financial investment advisors or managers. You'll have to see it. Number nine, you had mining engineers. Number eight were barristers. Seven were judicial or other legal professions. Sixth was psychiatrists. Fifth was other medical practitioners. So just, I guess, general people who maybe didn't make this list. Fifth were finance dealers. VD, what's the difference between- I don't know what a financial dealer is, honestly. I looked at that list and I was like, do you mean like mortgage brokers,

like finance brokers, but I don't know what a finance dealer is. It's very suspicious and there's not enough information on the ATO website to give me a job outline. So leave it with me, guys. Leave it with me. I feel like I might have got my numbers mixed up, but the next on the list was internal medicine specialists. Okay. Then second highest were anesthetists. Did I say that right? Oh, I thought they would have been number one. I've always thought that they were the number one paid doctor. It was very, very close. So just over $10,000 between them and the top spot who this year went to surgeons. Okay. All right. Doesn't seem super surprising. Now right at the top, if we're looking at surgeons, the average, I believe this graph is showing for the income

for men was $445,000, which is an absurd amount of money. That's so much money. I would like to money. For women though, the average income only came out at $255,000. That's not on. So a huge gap, not quite half, but getting pretty close. And, you know, the argument that we hear a lot from people when we're talking about the gender pay gap is people say, oh, it's because women take lower paying jobs. You know, women are like female surgeon. Yeah. So here are the stats. You know, the roles that historically, you know, have been held by women are caregivers or teachers or nurses. And so people like to say, oh, but men are surgeons and labourers and all of these things, which is a flawed argument in and of itself. And I'm not even going to touch it right

now. However, we're directly comparing here people doing the exact same job. And there's, you know, almost a $200,000 disparity between people just because of their gender. And I really can't see any good reason why that might be the case. It actually really upsets me purely because I look at it and I just go, this is insane to me to think that women are not earning as much as men, but then we go into it, right? And we go, all right, well, there's obviously so much more to it. And I think we need to take a little bit of a step back and actually just talk about what the difference is. So there's pay gap and then there's gender pay gap and then there's equal payday and all of this other stuff. But specifically when we talk about gender pay gap,

we're specifically talking about the difference between the average earnings of women and men in the workforce. And the gender pay gap is essentially an internationally established measure of women's position in the economy compared to a man. So we're not talking about like, oh, are they putting in more time, energy and effort or just that argument of like, oh, women take on more, you know, caregiving roles. We're just doing like for like. If a woman is a surgeon and a man is a surgeon, on average, female surgeons at the same level get paid less. And it just, it really ruffles my feathers. And you guys have probably seen it recently on social media. When I post about the gender pay gap or anything to do with women's rights and pay,

men jump down my throat and they're like, this was debunked. This is because women don't want to work. No, no, no. The gender pay gap is quite literally like for like roles. And we now have some hard and fast statistics straight from the ATO proving that fact. And like, Jess, you're putting them on the table, like it is what it is. We're not talking about, oh, women on average get paid less. They do. And there are a lot of factors at play, but the stats you're bringing to the table, Jess, are really just like for like jobs. Women are earning less than men for doing the same job. I thought that was illegal though. It absolutely is illegal. And that's why we need to be talking about these things because what plays into the gender pay gap, and Jess, you talk about

this a lot. Women aren't as confident to negotiate for themselves. Women aren't as likely to be given the promotion when a man is there because, you know, Jess, you and I were talking about unconscious bias yesterday and it exists for everybody. However, a man is just in general going to be more likely to be picked for a pay rise because that is seen as a better option. It doesn't mean it is the right option. It is just underlyingly from our unconscious bias, the right decision to make. Like women are never seen as being as capable in roles like that as men, even though it's unequivocally untrue. Isn't a big part of the gender pay gap as well, the way that society is structured. So we have roles like teaching, nursing, for example, they're the two easiest

that spring to mind. They're grossly underpaid for what they contribute to society. And we saw that through the pandemic. No one worked harder than those people. Yeah, agreed. And compared to more male dominated fields. So surgeons, for example, they're just, there is more male surgeons, isn't it? You are not wrong, Georgia King. So isn't it kind of valuing male dominated roles above female dominated industries more so than just a like for like comparison? That's what I thought the gender pay gap is. It also, I think, goes beyond that. And it starts when we're young. Like if you think about the toys that kids are typically given, I was in, came out the other day, one of my beautiful friends her baby just turned one little gorgeous baby boy and we were looking

for gifts and you know when you're looking for girls it's dolls and babies and costumes and little outfits or kitchens and when you're looking at the toys for boys there were medical kits and tool kits and it starts so young where we're kind of setting up this concept of gender roles and you You know, women are in those caregiving roles and men are in those, you know, more complex or quote unquote skilled roles. And it starts really young, you know, and it's when a boy says, oh, I want to be a princess when I grow up. And they're told, oh, no, you can't be a princess.

That's not a thing. But when girls... Oh, don't put on a skirt. Yeah. But when girls say the same thing, you're like, absolutely. You know, you're so pretty. And it starts at such a young age, I think, that by the time we're adults, that unconscious bias is really present, but also so deeply ingrained in us that we're really not aware

that it's there. And so that's why these industries are dominated by men rather than women. It's not even necessarily always about women not asking for the pay rise. Maybe they do ask and they don't get it. But it's, you know, when people leave school, we have programs to encourage females to study in industries like tech, women in STEM, because they just never thought that they could because they were never encouraged to do it. That goes for a multitude of industries where it's more socially acceptable or more common for men to go out to be trades people or for men to go out and be lawyers or surgeons or these high paying roles. And it comes back to all of those little microaggressions or micro habits that we have all throughout our

formative years that by the time we get there, we go, oh, of course, like men are taking on these roles because they're better at it, but it's not. And then I guess not to go on a big rant, but if you zoom out again, that's what being in a patriarchy is, right? Like there's so many factors in play and it's that concept of, you know, women are going to be the child bearers and at a certain age, we're going to step out of the workforce and we're going to raise the babies because that's what we were born to do. But at the same time, men are working on that career trajectory and getting years under their belt and taking it further. And the whole thing, the whole society, and we've spoken about this before, is really structured to be a man's world.

And that's what we're working to break. But the statistics show that we're definitely not quite there yet. Like there's so much to it, Jess. Like I like the rant. I'm going to continue the rant. It's a good place to be. There's just so much to it, right? Like we talk about, you know, men and women earning different amounts of money. I actually don't mind that we earn different amounts of money if we're choosing that. Like if you want to stay at home and do that, you do you. What I actually want for our community and what I actually want for women in general is equal opportunity. I want my friend to go and work as a surgeon in a hospital and be paid for what the role demands, not necessarily what they think they should pay a female. And inherently that to me is

what we're fighting for. We're not fighting for women to earn the same as men. We're actually just fighting for women to earn what that job demands. And I think that's a really fair position to be in but going back to the stereotypes and stuff Jess like I look at my industry and it being 2022 and we're trying to push it forward and financial advisors have always been men I think if we look at it the average financial advisor is a 45 year old male who lives in Melbourne and like that's fine and well and good but there's just this narrative that still that is a man's space I go to conferences I go to talks I talk to people and it's just so male dominated like the other day, I got an invitation in my inbox for a networking event on a golf course. Is that where

we're at still? Is that what we're doing? There are only 22.5% of women in my industry, like that are authorized accredited financial planners in Australia. Like what on earth is going on? Because this industry, if you actually know it deeply, I feel like women thrive in it. Like we do so well, but we've been consistently told this isn't really a man's space. And growing up, I didn't think I'd be in finance like I didn't think that that was even in a career that I was interested is a boy's job and I know that that's not a good thing to say but it's just the way we grow up it's the stories we get told and I'm so grateful to have parents who were like oh you want trucks you want Lego great like I had those things and I had the doctors set and I was just pushed to do whatever

I wanted to do but that's not the narrative that was forced on my parents that's a narrative my parents genuinely chose for me and I've had that conversation with my mum she's like no no no girl up I wanted you to know that you could do whatever a boy could do and that's a choice she made and that's so beautiful but you know we just get fed it like we get fed it at Kmart right? Yeah and it's it's hard because like I said you I could and I did buy a kitchen for my friends when you're a little boy but it was in the aisle that was for the girls and that's where such a joke right for anyone who wants to learn more about this huge topic and we could talk about it all day but we have other things to chat about, head through the WGEA website. We're going to link it in the

show notes, but all of the stats and figures are there. It provides a lot more context as to why the gap exists and it goes into a lot of detail. So I'd really recommend a read of that after this chat. Shall we now listen to a money dilemma, ladies? Let's do it. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's On The Money team is here to help. Every week, we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a quick voice recording and you may just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to today's Money Dilemma. Hi there. I'm looking to buy a property in the next couple of years and I was thinking about

using the first home super saver scheme and salary sacrifice to build up my savings in my superannuation account. But I'm just wondering, given the current state of the market, What are the implications of using that to build up savings? And would I be better just keeping my money in a regular bank savings account? Thank you. Oh, this is a good question. One I can't answer because I can't say, hey, you should do this instead of this. But do you know what we can do, guys?

What? Stats and facts and numbers. Love that. But before we get to the stats and facts and numbers, Jess, you're on the first home buying journey. is this a scheme that you're considering using or using or planning to or what what are your thoughts as a first home buyer so i have put money in to utilize the first she's done it yeah so i maxed out because obviously we've discussed this in more detail previously but i've maxed out for

the last financial year and i probably will do the same this financial year and the reason that i did that was because there are significant tax benefits so you know when you put it in you get it charged at the 15% tax rate that super is generally taxed at rather than your marginal tax rate. So for me, that was close to a 50% saving on tax. So you make good money. Yeah. She's on the money must be good employer. Yeah, she does pretty well. Yeah. So for me, it made a lot of sense. And obviously I looked at the bigger picture. I'm not salary sacrificing. So that wasn't something that I considered, but I understand where she's coming from because like, for example, my superannuation is down a little bit from where it was, say, a year or two

ago because the market is down, but you don't have less shares. It's just currently valued at less, which is fine. We love that. Correct. And so you can withdraw the same dollar value as what you put in, I believe. So like if I put $15,000 in, in a year or two years or whenever I finally get my house, I can withdraw $15,000 out. And so theoretically, and I don't know if I'm getting this wrong, please correct me if I'm wrong, but theoretically, like I'm getting out what I'm putting in. If those shares are valued at less, it takes a little bit of a hit. But what I already had in super, so my superannuation that's actually being in played my actual retirement fund. Yes. Those shares shouldn't really have changed too much. Like even if they're valued at less,

I'm not withdrawing those shares specifically. They will sit there and hopefully with time they will recover. But the money that I'm pulling out, unless the market fully tanks and goes completely belly up. Which it's not going to because I've looked at your super, my love. You're pretty invested in blue chip stocks. Yeah, like unless things go right off the rails, I think for me, ultimately, the amount that I was saving in tax seemed like way more than what I was likely to lose, even if the

market, you know, did a 180. Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's interesting because I have been talking to people in our community and some people are like, oh, it's not worth it. You know, it's too much work. It's this, it's that, it's the other. It's actually not. We answered the process question, I think last week or the week before on the show about how you do it and whether you need to call your super fund and set it up when the reality is no, you just start chucking some money in. And super is actually much easier to contribute to than a lot of people assume, right? You actually just need the BSB and account number or just a BPAY bill of code and you just transfer money there, pop your name in.

Yeah, it was actually so easy. That's so weird. It was crazy. Yeah, I think that there's just this, because super feels so far away from us and disconnected, we just assume that the process must be really confusing. It's not. You just BPAY it over and wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. I would personally check my account after to make sure that it went through because I'm anxious gal. But at the end of the day, like you just log into super and they'll give you the dates to transfer it over. There's no complex forms. There's nothing too hard or heavy about it, which I think is, it's interesting in saying that we're not talking about additional contributions to super here about whether they're a good idea or not. We're

talking specifically about the first home super saver scheme. So even though it's really easy to contribute, you need to work out whether that's a good idea for your financial circumstances or not. Because as much as Jess, you're like, this is a great return and you're able to pull it out for first home super saver scheme, if you were just additionally contributing to super, you'd need to make sure that that was aligned to your goals and values of it being locked away until age of retirement. So it's not a bad thing. It's just we need to know the semantics of the situation. But I've done some quick maths for you guys. And Jess, knowing your marginal tax rate, we're just going to use you as an example here. All right, Jess, let's say that you have an

average income, which means that you are earning between $45,000 and $120,000. This, I reckon, is where most of our community falls. So this might be a good example, which means that you are going to be paying $5,092 in tax plus $0.32.5 for every dollar that you earn over $45,000. So that's just the ATO's rules. That's our marginal tax rate bracket. So at 32.5% as a marginal tax bracket, if we use $10,000 as an example, because, you know, that's a nice round, easy number. If you earned $10,000 pre-super and then took it out and put it into your savings account, that would equate after tax to $6,750 in your bank account. Had you put that money into super annuation instead, that would be worth $8,500. That is a difference of 21%.

percent. Yeah. You got 21 percent returns this year on your Superjust? I freaking wish. No. Did you get it in your investment portfolio? Nope. Where else can you get a return of 21 percent that's basically guaranteed? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think that, you know, I'm not saying, oh my gosh, it'll work for absolutely everybody. But if you're doing the first home super saver scheme and you want to put yourself ahead, you're putting yourself 21 percent ahead on your savings goals if you use that scheme. So extrapolating that out for different marginal tax brackets, if you were at 37%, you'd actually be 26% ahead. If you earn more than 180, you're doing real well, my friend, you're actually 35% ahead by using this scheme. And Jess, if we then add that up, and I know that

you're not going to use the full amount. So what are you going to use? You're probably going to use two financial years worth of... Yeah, if I'm able to buy before the end of this financial year, I'll have done two. Yeah. Two contributions. Two maxed out contributions. Yeah. So you'll be ahead, which is a money win. However, if you're in a circumstance where you're like, I don't know if I should use it or not, the goalposts have recently changed to being $50,000 instead of 30. So Jess, in your particular circumstance, I don't know if you've done the numbers yet or not, but by using it for two financial years, which means you're contributing $15,000 each year to a total of $30,000, when you take that out, Jess, you personally are going to be $6,600 better off

for using that. Extrapolate that out and say Jess has even more time up her sleeve and wants to use that cap of the full 50 grand that she can put in super. If she had done that, she'd be $11,000 better off. That's a whole heap of money, like $11,000 towards your home deposit if you're using that scheme. That's like basically free money by popping it through your super fund if you've got the time to do it. So we're not saying yes or no. Is it a good idea? Is it not? Do keep in mind that when you put this money into super, you don't actually have to take it out. You could leave it there. You could pull it out later. You do need to do a form. Go back and listen to last week's Friday drinks if you want some more info on how and when and what that actually looks like.

But when you look at it just based purely on the numbers, does it make sense in the current market to reach for a goal of being able to be 21% better off when buying a house? I don't know. That's up to you, my friend, because I can't say go use it or not. But what I can do is give you some facts and some stats about is it easy to access? Is it actually going to put you ahead? What are the numbers? If we look at Jess's example, I think, Jess, you've decided that works really well for you. But it's, again, a finance decision, which is a personal decision, whether you use it or not. I wish I'd used it, but at the point in buying, I just didn't have the ability to do that. So it wasn't an option for me, but do I wish I had an extra, you know,

six and a half grand? Of course I do. I hate to put a pin in it, ladies, very interesting chats today, but we have run out of time. So I'm going to wrap us up with the boring, but important stuff. I love that for us. Please remember guys that the advice shared on She's on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of InFocus Securities Australia, Preparatory Limited, ABN 47097797049, AFSL 236523. We'll see you on Monday, guys. Bye. See you next week, guys.

Thank you for watching!