She's On The Money - Getting Fired Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me

Episode Date: December 1, 2024

Can being fired actually be the best thing that ever happens to you? This week’s Money Diarist was blindsided by her boss and the universe when she got fired from her $60k job—just months after they gave her a bonus. She was left feeling overwhelmed, lost, and battling imposter syndrome. Fast forward: she's now thriving with a six-figure income, a stellar investment portfolio, and a no-property-required path to financial freedom. When life throws curveballs; this is how you hit them out of the park. Tune in to hear this inspirational story! Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back to another one of our money diaries where I get the absolute pleasure of sitting down with one of our She's On The Money community members and talking to them all about their money story. Let's jump straight into it because this week I got an email and it sounded exactly like this. Dear She's On The Money, seven years ago I was surprise fired from a $60,000 a year job after my employer used a loophole in employment law to let me go just one week before I'd hit 12 months. This was just months after they'd given me a bonus for doing a good job. It shattered my confidence and I still struggle with imposter syndrome from it. Fast forward to today, I'm

earning six figures, have a six-figure investment portfolio, and my super is also sitting at six figures. But despite all that progress, I'm still too scared to buy a property. It just feels like such a huge step. Money Diarist, I can't wait to get to know more about you. Off-air, we were talking about The Sims and how good that is as a game. So I just feel like we're going to get on really, really well. Before we dive further in, I need to know, if you were to give your money habits a grade, what would you grade them from A through to F? I'm going to go with an A minus and I hope I don't regret it. I don't want to be the first person you fight with the other way. Can you imagine if I was like, by the way, you're not actually that good. Oh my gosh. Do you

even know me? Oh, the audacity. Anyway. All right, let's go. I am excited to learn a bit more because your story is something that I feel like so many of us have had happen to us or like not had a job workout. But before we get into the job stuff, can you tell me a bit more about your money story? Yeah. So from an early age, I think like the earliest money thing I can remember talking to my parents about was like the end of primary school my sister's two years older than me and they were looking for a high school for us to go to and I remember them saying like look we're considering private schools as an option but the reality is if we did that you couldn't afford to do any sports go on any camps do anything like that because like just the school kind of would

be the most we could do so what we're going to do is we're going to look for like good public schools kind of thing and that's like my first money memory proper I think yeah that's interesting because I feel like that must be a conversation that so many of us have had because I even remember having that conversation in like grade six with my parents talking about you know what school are we going to go to and you know the area I grew up in there was a lot of like really fancy like private schools and then there was public schools and then there was like the middle ground which was like the catholic school which is where I went but I remember having a conversation about how astronomically expensive the private schools were

and it just wasn't an option. Yeah, because we grew up very firmly middle class. My parents both worked in retail at video stores. It's funny because it's like different video stores as well. They weren't always at the same one, like they were competing video stores. Oh, someone's at Blockbuster and the other's at Video Easy. I love it. Yeah, that kind of vibe.

Go home and share trade secrets. Exactly. And, yeah, my dad actually ended up buying into the franchise of the one he was working at. so it's like oh very cool cool it was good um because yeah my mom actually got sick with cancer while i was in high school but because i think at that point he was a part owner so he had quite a lot of flexibility which was super useful because you know going to a lot of appointments and things like that the flexibility was super important but at the end of the day i i don't know i don't know

a lot about like owning your own business and franchising and things like that but it doesn't seem to have been particularly good financial decision like he's not in like the best place right now from like a money standpoint which yeah it's just really interesting to see that because like seeing him as like a business owner or franchise owner has really I think definitely impacted my money story because I firmly am like I never want to do that like I listened to occasionally some of the business bible episodes and I'm just like I could never like I know that there are so many benefits to it, but I'm like, please, someone just be my boss and pay me, give me some money. I love that you're listening to the Business Bible episodes,

even though you're like, I don't want to be a business owner, but I want to know the pervy dates. I love this for us. But also, I mean, franchising is something that I'm actually going to note this down and pop it on the list to do an episode on because there's lots of people, especially after, I don't know if you follow me on social media, but I have been going ham on multi-level marketing. And a lot of people have been like, oh, is franchising the same? And short answer is no, it's definitely not the same, but there are good franchises and bad franchises. And like some people can make absolute bank. Like I had when I was a financial advisor, complete side note, just interesting conversation, right? I had a client who owned four different

McDonald's locations and that was franchised and she was making like six and a half million dollars a year. Right? Like that's good money. And she had these beautiful locations, like really popular places and she was making bank. But on the flip side, I have had people come to me and be like, oh, I really want to, you know, go into this Pilates franchise. And they kind of take all your profit. You don't make anything and you are absolutely like hamstrung. You also aren't able to leave them without a massive like non-compete period. It was just like a really bad decision for them. But that doesn't mean that all Pilates franchises are bad. Do you know what I mean? And so it's an interesting conversation to have because I think one, it's a little bit

pervy because you want to know how people own their businesses. But also, I mean, your parents did purchase into video stores, which don't exist now. So I feel like that might play into it as well. Yeah. There was also, I don't know if you remember in 2011, there was a really big flood that happened in Brisbane. Oh yeah. Yeah. Their business went literally underwater, like completely oh my god and it's a physical product you can't rent out dvds if they are wet no yeah so obviously that had a lot to do with how things kind of shook out but you know you're right like it was at that inflection point too of like they were starting to think about getting out and then a big flood happened and they had to sort of decide like do we just keep going and they did and that was maybe

but yeah so it's actually insane to think like that so many people could have been on that and I'm sure that there are people who you know purchased into video stores who have really really healthy bank accounts now because they made that decision and maybe got out at the right time it's such an interesting piece and that's all business right like that can happen in any industry literally so tell me a bit more you mentioned before that your mum got sick with cancer while you were in high school I feel like that's a very big piece of your money story yeah it's actually watching her sort of handle like working after because she had so I think I was in about grade nine when she got sick and I think there was like maybe a year or two of treatments

and things and then she was in remission for like 12 years so she had a really good a good run after that and it was interesting seeing her like she didn't want to work um because you know you go through something like that it's like you don't want to just do something you don't like like you don't want to spend your time doing that she was actually a bit of a gamer as well the apple does not fall that far from the tree yeah so um yeah just seeing her like want to just kind of be the sort of you know homemaker kind of vibe and eventually she did kind of go back to work in like a retail sort of settings again but yeah it was it was interesting to see that but is she okay now like where's my mat now she passed away no oh my god no but that doesn't mean I don't want

to talk about your mum and I hope you're comfortable with that so did she end up passing away from cancer and the same yeah my heart after yeah the 12 years she actually did still have like another like quite a while after that but it yeah it got to a point where the cancer unfortunately won when my parents did eventually get out of the video store they were able to move up to the Sunshine Coast and be closer to family and it was really nice that she got to be at the beach for her last couple years and it was good it was nice oh so beautiful up there too but yeah obviously horrible yeah no no absolutely horrible outcome but like I'm glad that she got to live her life nicely like being able to move to the Sunshine Coast and like probably spend more time with you

like that's exactly what we want right yeah so tell me once you became an adult you got a sixty $50,000 a year job. What was that job? And tell me a bit more about how that ended. So I actually grew up in Brisbane and I'm now in Sydney. So I had like my first big girl job in Brisbane. And then after like maybe three years of being there, my partner actually got an opportunity and they were like, Hey, we'll move you to Sydney if you want. And I was like, that's fantastic. My career in Brisbane might not go that far, but Sydney's got a lot of opportunities. So let's do it. So I got my first big girl Sydney job, which was the 60K a year one. that feels big as well like going from Brisbane to Sydney like oh I have moved on up yeah I'm like

oh I'm in a big city yeah so it was a really really small studio so at the time I was a like a graphic designer and that's similar to what I was doing before but I was coming from more of like a digital space and going to more of a like a creative agency very cool yeah it was really fun it was a really good way to like get to know Sydney I liked it I thought I was doing good because a couple months in as you mentioned at the start I got a bonus and it was like thanks for doing such a great job and I was like oh amazing you are welcome yeah anytime I'll keep going yeah but we didn't because it was such a small business there weren't really it wasn't really frameworks for like development and things like that like we weren't ever really having

check-ins to be like I mean I thought the bonus was a good check-in to be like yeah good job but no sit down sort of conversations or anything like that so then one day I came in and one of the guys sat me down he's like so you won't be continuing with the company and I was like huh sorry what where did this come from and that would have taken you by surprise because you didn't see it coming either what did that feel like it felt horrible I was like so emotional I burst into tears I was just like so confused because yeah it was such a shock I said to them I was like where did this come from where did this come from and they're like oh you just seem really unhappy like sorry what well also my mom had just been re-diagnosed with cancer so I'm like

yeah I probably was sad yeah I was sad but that doesn't mean I was doing a bad job yeah well so they said that they thought I was doing a bad job as well like in terms of they thought I'd be able to do more and to be fair the type of design that they were doing is not what I do now like I definitely have stronger skill sets but I was also like you can't do this can you like you had to tell me that I was doing a bad job and they said we are well within our right and that is when I was like oh no there's something that I don't know here see that stuff gives me the ick and like I manage a lot of people and I'm very grateful too but I often tell my team like if your role is ever at risk I will be using that conversation like those terms with you like I will sit you down

and be like hey you know if this behavior continues your role is at risk and I've always been so clear about you know articulating that if something is coming you'll know about it because I just think that it is poor leadership if any of my team members are caught by surprise for you to have been caught by surprise, that was on them, not on you. Like you were arguably at $60,000 a year in a relatively entry-level role. Like it wouldn't have been, and like, that's not me being mean. It's just, it would have been a relatively entry-level role. It was their job to provide consistent feedback. And if they weren't doing that and you were surprised by the outcome, that actually is a reflection of them being pretty terrible leaders. Like one out of 10 for them.

like it's got nothing to do with you and you know what maybe like maybe you were doing bad job that's fine that's absolutely fine but you deserved the feedback to be like hey money diarist like you know we actually need to see you performing here but you're right here right now and you go yeah no worries I'm working towards it like you should have had so many check-in points that by the time they sat you down and said hey money diarist like this role isn't going to work out you'd be like yeah I know like you've been telling me it just makes sense like I've actually already in the background, been looking for a new job. Like this should have been an ongoing conversation. And it makes me so mad because so many people in the She's On The Money community

will message me and be like, oh, I, you know, same situation as you, I got surprise fired. And you're just like, that is not on you. That is on them for honestly, most of the time, not having the balls to have hard conversations with their team. Yeah. I definitely think it was that, like some of the things I was saying in the conversation as well were just like the math wasn't mapping they were like oh you should have been teaching yourself how to use this application on the weekends and I'm like what sorry no way were you paying me on the weekends yeah and it's like also did you tell me that you wanted me to learn that no you didn't oh and also I love when they start saying things like oh yeah and I mean

cultural fit you're like sorry what why is that being added to the mix like oh yeah it was it was So devastating. So devastating. I'm sorry that that happened. And I think the shittiest part about that is their poor leadership has now meant that you are still struggling with imposter syndrome. So tell me a bit more about that because that, that's a bullshit syndrome. I have it, you have it, but we all know we shouldn't have it. Yeah. Honestly, I think I had it before this happened, but that obviously exacerbated it a lot. The worst part was like, once it happened, I was like what how do I get another job like what do you tell people when that happens and luckily I had when I was in university I was in like an academic program because classic

high achiever so I sent the email to the manager of the group and I was like hey this thing happened help me like what do I do so I was very lucky I had someone I could reach out to and have a conversation about like what should we do like what does this look like I can't even really remember what I did I think they were basically like just don't bring it up and I think that's what I ended up doing and luckily no one when I was interviewing was like what happened I think I kind of was just phrasing it like my year ended like phrasing it like it was a contract yeah fine it's done you do what you've got to do to get by yeah like I definitely would talk about it now because enough time has passed and like I'm confident enough in myself that I can look

back at that and be like yeah well it wasn't a right fit and like they ended it and it was a surprise I'm glad I'm not there anymore because I do think it was not a great company 100% because they're terrible leaders one out of ten like I feel like in moments like that it really shows the type of team they are like and they're probably the same type of team that's like yeah we're a great close-knit family rah rah but also we blindside our staff like one out of ten so talk to me, I know that you've got a better job now. Fast forward to today, what do you do for work and how much money do you earn? Yes. So I am currently a senior product designer at a tech company on $145,600 a year, not including super. Oh, okay. Okay. And then super is plus? Yeah.

Oh my God. Can you please tell me what a senior product designer does at a tech company? I have no idea what that means yeah so it's like a mix of user interface design and user experience design so it's both how oh yeah totally yeah okay it's like how something looks is like the user interface part like literally like the buttons and stuff and then the experience part is like how someone actually uses it so it's like full end-to-end like what is the problem we are trying to solve and then it's like how would someone use it and then sometimes there's like testing and things that you do with people that's actually really cool so you like make it look pretty but also make it really functional at the same time yeah make it work oh I love that and so obviously you

went from like more of a graphic design role and now you're earning like 145 grand as a 33 year old that is so epic tell me how long did it take you to get to a role where you were literally earning more than double what you were in the job that you got fired from because that's actually a bit of a slay right yeah so that role was super like we do posters like it was very like classic graphic design and so my next role was another small agency but a bit bigger and it was more sort of digital focus so like more opportunity to be doing more like websites and applications and things like that again which is what I actually had done previously yeah so I got a bit more stuck into that and luckily while I was there the company had quite a bit of growth and I

had the opportunity to kind of grow the company and we started getting some customers that were like oh we want more user interfacey stuff so I was able to get into that and then this next company was really good they were very into like development and cared a lot about making sure that their employees were like getting further educations and feeling challenged and things like that. So I actually did a bit of additional training. It was like a six week short course in user experience design, which is what I now do. So I was kind of doing it as a job, but also I had never done any training in it. So I did some like official training to like really firm up those skills. How did you realize that this was a career path you were interested

in? Because one, when you said I'm a senior product designer, like I had no idea what that is. It now makes a lot of sense, but how do you go, oh, I really want to do this as a role from going, oh, you know, and I'm very, very much simplifying it, but going from, you know, creating pretty posters to something which I would deem to be a lot more technical and involved. Is this something that you went to uni with? Like, is this something where, you know, you were just really good at coding your MySpace back in the day and realized, oh, actually I'm pretty good at this and I want to make this my job like how does this come to fruition yeah it's an interesting journey because if you had told graphic design me at the time that that kind of salary was possible I would

have been like you are kidding because I remember one of my friends talking to me she was a freelance illustrator and she was on like 80k I was like whoa that's like the most I could imagine that's so much money yeah yeah I don't even remember when I found out that this like I can't quite pinpoint it exactly but when I was going into my degree I actually started with interior design because of the sims I was like I can decorate a room I'm great at this yeah I am fantastic what wall paneling would you like exactly we'll start there flooring yeah a hundred percent where are we putting the windows is there a pitched roof like oh yeah you and I oh and I did a year of that and it was horrible so I changed the major so it was the same degree but I just changed the

major to like visual communication design which wasn't fully like posters it was like a little bit posters but there was a little bit of that like digital kind of element but yeah when I graduated I was kind of like I am not a creative person like in the way that some of these other designers are like I just don't see myself with those skill sets so as soon as I had the opportunity in a role to do more of that less creative stuff like the thinking not physical pretty pictures part I noticed that I was really good at it and then from there I think I was probably just like going to meetups and things like that and then like conferences occasionally and you'd hear people talk and they'd be like oh I'm this kind of designer and then I'd be like oh maybe that's

the kind of thing I could do and then like I had friends obviously who I graduated with and some of them were kind of going in the same direction so it was kind of like conversations with friends and just yeah seeing what's out there that's really good I love it sorry I'm asking so many like career questions but often we get people on the show and I'm like but how did you get there like you know I feel like there's so much pressure when you're in grade 11 and 12 to know what you want to do with the rest of your life and I went into psychology and I don't regret it because I feel like it obviously helps me in what I do today but like had I had more opportunity to understand people's career trajectory and opportunities, I wouldn't have

done psychology. Like you have to do so much work and additional degrees to get a job in that space. What was I doing? At the time, I'm like, this is my career. It wasn't though, because I didn't even know what the proper outcomes could be. It drives me insane. So I know since you getting fired, you've achieved a lot. Tell me, what are your big money goals? What are you currently working towards yeah so it's so boring because my main goal is just maintenance like just keep doing what I've been doing that's not boring that means that you've like achieved it like you're like oh I don't need to work on my cash flow I'm great at that that's like your goals what are your goals oh you are the goals no gross no but um I am going to Europe next year um I've already bought

flights oh exciting yeah my um best friend and my partner and I are going because my best friend is French so we're gonna go meet a family which is really exciting good yeah we're also seeing DJ Snake his last concert I love this for you yeah so I guess like technically that's probably like the big one but I am kind of always saving for a holiday so but yeah keep investing keep contributing to super and keep up with getting my nails done I love that it's all about a little bit of balance let's go to a really quick break and on the flip side actually I want to dive a bit more into that money goal of yours which is investing because I know that you've got a six figure investment portfolio and I feel like that's a lot at 33 years old so guys don't go anywhere

all right money diarist we are back and we're talking about investments so tell me you said before like oh i don't really have any big money goals like i'm always saving for a holiday but i know you have a big money goal and that must be like financial freedom because you have a six figure investment portfolio and if it's not financial freedom what's that for tell me more no you're right it is financial freedom i guess but it just feels weird to say like that's the goal but I guess it is that is the goal financial freedom I don't want to work like if you don't have to work like I want you to work if you love it but like imagine waking up one day and going I don't have to go to work and I can still pay all of my bills and live my best life

and I can afford a coffee and my nails like is that not living yeah it's funny you say that though because like when I do the math for like looking at what I'd have for retirement I actually have to keep doing exactly what I'm doing for the next like 30 years so it's like it's not sexy like I feel like I've been trying to stop ruining the dream for everybody else though, Money Dyrus, because I have been working my butt off to sell investment to everybody. I'm like, investment is the best idea ever because you can create financial freedom. But then they realize it takes like 30 years. I'm like, no, don't worry about that part. Don't worry about that part. Let's just gloss over that. You get rich. But tell me, you obviously are very aware

that you have this investment portfolio that looks pretty good now and you need to continue to do the same thing for the next 30 years? What is that same thing? What are you doing for 30 years? And what's the outcome going to be? Yes. So I will start with super. So I have about 150,000 in super at the moment. It is across two, almost three accounts. And that is for insurance reasons. I like that. Yes. When the third one was opened, I didn't actually realize it was going to happen. And I got so shook and I was like, two, I could handle, but three, I'm not sure about, but we'll see. Yeah. So for that, I am contributing $2,595 a month. What? And $1,395, that is the guarantee. And then I do an additional $1,200 as a salary sacrifice.

Okay. So that's into your super, which is, I guess, very, very attractive. This external investment though, talk to me about that. What does that look like? Yes. So I just checked it right before this call and it's gone up a little bit thanks to the chaos in America, I'm assuming. Oh, I love the chaos. I don't love what's happening, but I do love watching what it's been doing to the share market. Me too. Oh, it's very attractive. It is. Yeah. So currently my Perler account is sitting at $110,000. Okay. That is iconic. How did you get $110,000 in a Perler account though? Yeah. So I, at the moment, am contributing $2,200 a month. I was...

Post-tax. So that's like your tax money that comes into your bank account because we just talked about super. So I'm just trying to make sure that we can be super clear. So you have found a way to get $2,200 a month to invest. Yes. You're going to be so rich. I love this. Fingers crossed. It's funny because I was looking to see, because I knew we'd talk about like, how did I get started? And I did start with Raise, but I was only just doing Raise. I was doing $50 a week on Raise initially. And that lasted six months before I opened my Perler account

because I knew that I wanted to invest for like... But it's a gateway. Like I have referred to these micro-investing platforms before as like gateway drugs. And they are, they're like gateway drugs to getting you investing. And then it's a slippery slope. And then you get a Perler account or you get a Sharesies account and you start investing bigger amounts and then you see what's happening. like have you done the maths on what your compounding is actually going to look like in that I've gone to the lovely government website with the compound calculator yeah my favorite website yeah that's actually how I was doing it to be like I would have to keep doing the same contributions to hit a certain point in the future kind of thing so when you say hit a

certain point have you picked a point and you've said oh this is what my goal is like talk to me about what that looks like ish so like I haven't like written a specific number down but I think it was I was listening to one of the podcast episodes about like retirement planning or something and they're talking about the actual numbers and I think I'm aiming for like 1 mil 1.4 mil I think it was for me to actually be comfortable which it's I'm over budgeting for everything I was about to say babe I don't know if you've done the actual maths because you said you did the maths but that's not the maths that's not the math okay I mean that's good like that's fantastic. Like when you said I've over budgeted, yes, my friend you have. Yes. So you told me I've

done it. I've done it in the background while we've been talking because it's just, I'm so pervy. Like my favorite thing about money, you can't just go up to some random at a cafe and be like, Hey, I like your jumper. Also, what do you earn? Like, that's not how this works, but I get to ask you literally all of the money questions. Cause you decided to sit in front of me and say, how about it, V? So you said that you have currently $110,000 in your Perler account, right? And you're investing $2,200 each and every single month. You also said earlier to me that you have in your mind another 30 years of doing this. So I've taken that number and gone, all right, well, that will make you 63 by that point in time, which is a good retirement time. Don't

worrying. With these numbers, you're going to retire early. With that, it means over your lifetime, you've got your $110,000 to start with your $2,200 a month being contributed. For the next 30 years, you're going to contribute a total of $792 to that investment, which is very exciting. So that's just the cash that you're tipping in. But we know that money compounds. And we also know that over the last 30 years, the average rate of return of the Australian share market has been 9.3%. So, I'm just going to use 9% in this situation because it seems kind of reflective, which means you will make, on average, a total amount of interest of $4,700,000. I definitely did the math wrong. Your investment portfolio at this point has a trajectory

of $5.64 million, which means at retirement, we're not even taking your superannuation into consideration. At retirement, that means if we just base it off a 5% drawdown. So as I said before, 9% is what the Australian share market returns at. But when you retire, we don't want to just take all of the profit off the table. We want to take 5% and then still have some compounding to do. Cause like we want money to make money and like, you know, sustainability. So we're going to take 5% of 5% of $5.6 million is an income of $275,000 a year. And that's not what your super is going to pay. Do you think you could live comfortably? I think I could. Well, the thing is though, you think you could, we're going to get into that. Where am I living situation though?

Because like that's including rent. That's including rent. Oh, okay. So if you're going to pay rent $275,000. I don't know. Could you rent in Sydney? Probably. We'll see. So that doesn't include your super, but I think it's really exciting because life ebbs and flows, right? So now we're going to talk about your living situation. And that might mean that you contribute less to your investments for a period of time, but knowing that you're still contributing, you said $2,595 to your super, that's going to work itself out over there too. So like your money is going to be making money. Tell me about your living situation. Yeah. No, I'm just trying to think how I did the math so wrong. I think I was

being extremely conservative with the like percentage that I was using. I was probably using like 5% or something because I'm just like. I would much prefer you to under-promise and over-deliver. Yes, me too. That sounds like a good plan. Because even if we try and under-promise and over-deliver for ourselves now and change that annual interest rate from 9% down to seven and a half percent, which I like to use often, your total investment portfolio by the time you're 63 would be $4 million. So I don't know if you could live off that, but you let me know. Okay. Yeah, I definitely did bad math. I blame the compound calculator that's on the MoneySpot website. Oh no, that babe, babe, look at my screen right now. That's what I'm using.

Okay. I blame user error. It's my fault. Maybe you should call the government up and be like, do you guys actually need a senior product designer oh my god they don't need me they need someone better no they do they do like this calculator's ugly like it does the job but she's not cute she's not cute I don't mind it because I find it very functional and that's my vibe so yeah okay all right well I would like it functional and aesthetic anyway back on topic tell me are you planning on purchasing property I know in your money diary you wrote in and said you know, I've made a lot of progress. I have six figures in my super six figures in my investment portfolio. I'm making six figures a year, but property feels like a step that's too big for

me to take. What's that about? Yeah. I'm not sold on it because for me, the math isn't mapping for property. I really like investing because even though I've never had to like decrease the amount of money so far, I know that I could, if I wanted to, if I needed to, like if something happen if I had to take a break if I had a low-paying job I could just contribute less and that would be fine like no big deal but looking at a mortgage like firstly there's the deposit which I could definitely save up I could definitely get there but the idea of locking yourself in to a 30-year contract that like I would try and do it in less but like the reality is like anything could happen like I just don't believe that I could be I can't see it happening it's too scary

yeah but that's also okay because you're not burying your head in the sand about your financial situation you're not going oh the world's you know too overwhelming like property is too much I'm just gonna focus on living my best life like you are investing and creating financial freedom and at the end of the day, property isn't for everybody. Like I'm a property person because I want to own the asset. Like it's something that I'm passionate about. I get excited about it, you know, between my husband and I, we are both not like, you're going to be surprised by this, but we're not incredible at money. Like if we have it, we're always like, how do we spend it? So for us, having a mortgage is actually a really good kind of, and this is not good maths,

but it's like forced savings. Like we know we have to pay it. So therefore having this financial commitment is good for us. Whereas for other people, you go like, V, I would not want that at all. And do you know what? Is that going to put you in a worse off financial position? No. Does that mean that you could rent until the day you die? Absolutely. Because you're going to be in the position where you're always going to be able to pay rent. And we live in Australia where rental laws mean that you're never going to be completely screwed over. Like, and having an emergency fund, having access to cash means you're always going to be able to put a roof over your head. It might be expensive at one point because it's not what you want at that point

in time. But at the end of the day, you are financially secure and I actually don't mind how you do that as long as you're making decisions that are in line with your values. Your partner that you mentioned before, did they want property? Is that something that's causing a little bit of conversation in your relationship we're definitely on the same page I think he was probably more pro property initially than I was because I've always been too afraid and he's been more like oh no that's something we could do but now I think we're just so like because we've been following prices and stuff and we always were kind of like maybe we'll move back to Brisbane because at the time it was a lot cheaper in Brisbane but now it's the same

price so we're like that's not looking so hot for us he's on the same page we just don't can't see how it would work because i think like everything you were saying is 100 true but like where we want to live is like that's where the math really doesn't matter because we're like in inner city sydney and like looking at how much mortgage repayments are and just so much more than like we pay i think 620 a week in rent for our place and it's like it's pretty good and i just like yeah for $620 a week it better be oh that's good no that's really good I know I know it's good for Sydney like rent in Sydney is astronomical like it actually it pains me to think about it but if you guys are happy with that like why change it I mean the only thing I would say in this

situation is like explore the option like you don't have to do it but I would be looking at like what would it cost like purchasing a property in Sydney is to me a very different ball game like you could talk about rent vesting and what that means to purchase in Brisbane. You could have a look at the maths on that. And do you know what? It might not work out because we know on average, the rate of return on property in Australia is lower than the rate of return on the share market. And if you are more comfortable in the share market, technically, it's the quote, better option. In saying that, there is still for a lot of people, a lot of money to be made in property because they might pick the right one in the right location, but with any type of

investment comes risk. So you've got to weigh up what you're comfortable with. And if you're telling me, V, I'm comfortable where we are, do that. I'm so proud that you're going to retire in a very comfortable position. I haven't even asked what your partner does and what type of financial contributions they're making, but at the end of the day, you are going to be fine. Yeah. He's actually in a really similar spot. He does earn a little bit more than me. He's also in tech, but in more of like an engineering role. Okay. So we just fancy rich pants is over here. No, don't say that. No, I love it. I mean, we're not going to say that at brunch to all of our friends, but like, isn't it nice to be in a position where you're like, I've actually worked

my butt off and I'm going to be financially secure. And that's really cool. Yeah, it is. It really is. But, um, yeah. So with the rent vesting thing, like it is something we've considered but like both of us are just like max levels of stress right now like because we're both like working too much and we just know that we just couldn't possibly mentally right now but maybe we're not saying never though so i will say like we are both contributing a lot into our super within the back of our minds if we wanted to we could take advantage of the first home super saver scheme like that is lightly in the plan but at the same time we're like if we don't take it out we're happy with it to be there if we wanted to we could and we could kind of make that happen

well you did tell me before that you're contributing was it twelve hundred dollars a month to your superannuation as a salary sacrifice yeah so you're doing that and when you're doing that obviously it's for investment purposes in your mind at this point but if you did decide that it was for the first home super saver scheme all you have to do is call your super fund and say i've been making voluntary contributions and i'd like to withdraw them like it didn't ever have to be labeled for the first home super saver scheme to go in. And you probably know that, but I just wanted to make it clear for anyone listening who's like, oh, like, I don't know if it was for this first home super saver scheme or if it was, you know, just a voluntary

contribution, like any voluntary contribution can be withdrawn under that scheme, which I think is really sexy because one, you're boosting your super, that's going to be really attractive for when you retire. But then also if your values change and you're like, oh, actually we do really want to purchase a property, you're going to have structured yourself in a way where it's going to be even more effective. Like over this period of time, let's say if you save, because you can save up to $50,000 into the first home super saver scheme now, which if we look at the timeframes will take you about five years because of the contribution amounts. But if you in five years decided, V, I want to buy property, you'd be, I think it's nine and a half thousand dollars better

off because you used that. That is sexy. Yeah. It's a really cool scheme. Yeah. Like I love free money. Like free money is my favorite kind of money. Yeah. Money I didn't have to work for because I made smart decisions. Money win. So tell me a bit more. I'm assuming the answer is no, but do you have any debts? How do you feel about taking on debt? Oh, okay. I don't have any debt currently. So I finished paying off my HECS last year. Oh, that is very sexy. Oh my God. I was so happy. I had a full celebration. But as soon as I did, the amount that was going to my hex is what is my salary sacrifice that's going to super now. Oh, that is so smart. So you kind of switch your route and now you don't even feel it ever. Yes. Yeah. Very tactical. And yeah, we have a car,

but we bought it outright a couple of years ago because it's a small, cheap car. So yeah. I love it. I love it. So tell me more about your car. You bought it small. You bought it outright. how much did it cost what type of car are you driving uh it's a jazz a honda jazz best car in the world is it yellow no it's dark gray oh that's really disappointing because i love a yellow honda jazz but very smart car but next time you're driving past a honda jazz the person driving it could have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested like isn't that kind of fun yeah well Cause yeah, the car itself I think was 15,000 cause it was, we bought it in COVID times when the used car market was crazy. I don't think that car would have actually been worth that much, but

because of that it was, but yeah, so we just went halfsies on it. Love, adore. So tell me, I feel like you've got some good money habits because you did say at the start, V, I think I'm an A minus. And so far I'm not going to argue with you. Like I do think you're an A minus. In fact, I'd probably be like, are you sure you're not A plus? Because I can't see any room for improvement at this point. Like no feedback, no notes. Tell me, what do you think your best money habit is? Planning. Definitely planning. My partner and I joke that we put 24 weeks between us and a purchase. 24 weeks? Yeah. Again, it's kind of tactical. So I have a birthday really close to yours. When's your birthday? Early July. Yeah. Okay. So close to

mine yeah love close to yours but six months away from christmas so i will always have like a list of kind of bigger items that i want to purchase or even smaller items like just like shoes or whatever and i kind of plan them out through the year so i'll like ask people for money to go towards these specific things so that when i am like buying these things you know it's very planned out i'm not just like always spending money on stuff like that yeah so planning in that regard but also even just things like I am really into cooking, like cooking big batches of stuff because I find it very cost effective. I am one of those people happy to eat the same thing for three days in a row. I don't mind. See, I can't do it. I can't do it. Like,

no, no, I wish, I wish because I know that it's so practical and I love the idea that there would just be something in the fridge that I could eat. And Zara, who works for the She's on the Money team, she like full meal preps and I'll be like, oh, what did you have for dinner last night? Did you have that thing that we were talking about that you wanted? And she's like, oh no, I actually had something prepped in the fridge and I ate that. And I'm like, the level of self-control you have to be able to do that. I would have just gone and got the thing I wanted and be like, oh, bye to the stuff that's in my fridge. Like you guys are icons, could never be me. It's all about gratification though, because like when I have that thing that I want, I'm like,

oh, I'll have that thing on Friday. Cause that's when it's free midday or something. I love that. So you're just good at planning. Yeah. But the other part of that though, we've already kind of talked about it a little bit. I call it conscious lifestyle creep. Conscious lifestyle creep. I like that. Explain the theory. So whenever like the money situation changes, say like when I finished paying off my HECS, I very much intentionally was like, what is going to happen with this money? So like most of it went into super, but I did like keep a little bit of it out. And I was like, now i can go to the bt once a week instead of once of a fortnight so i definitely like my

lifestyle has crept but i've tried to do it in a way where it's like you know i'm still making prioritizing the um saving and the building of the future wealth but still like trying to you know be comfortable and like what's the word for it like chill out treat myself a little bit have a little bit of leniency leniency yeah so when the tax cuts happened this year my partner and I were like let's get a cleaner once a month oh I love that yeah because we've just been really stressed at the moment and like especially about like trying to keep on top of domestic stuff so we're like let's just do that and because of the lovely thank you government tax cuts we were able to do that so I love that and I think it's really important to even talk about those types of things

because I know that like some people will be like, oh my God, the entitlement in having a cleaner. Like I have a cleaner. And when I realized how much pressure it takes off me coming home to a clean house, clean house, clean mind, like I'm more productive at work. My husband and I are less snappy at each other. To us, I would actually prefer to have cheaper holidays and do less things on the weekend and go out for less brunches and make those compromises and keep our cleaner than have all of those other lifestyle-y things. And I think it needs to be about, and I know that can sound entitled, especially in the middle of a cost of living crisis, but like, I think it's important to be transparent and real and honest. Like for me, that works for our

budget. Does it mean that everyone should do it? Absolutely not. You need to get to a point in your finances where you're like, oh, this would make a valid contribution to our mental health and our physical health and we see the value in it and it doesn't stop us from saving or investing like it puts us in a good position and I think that that's where you get to you know conscious lifestyle creep I love that yeah I mean it's the same thing like the podcast has actually helped me a lot with like guilt because things like I get my nails done once a month and like again like if you say that to someone and they see like my nails they'll be like that is insane I cannot believe you're spending like a hundred dollars a month on that. And I'm like, I know it's crazy, but when I

look at my overall cashflow system, like compared to the amount of money I'm investing, it's nothing like I would feel bad about it if it was like, that was the majority of what I was spending. Also their judgment is a reflection of their thoughts and values and beliefs and behaviors and not yours. And like, I have never met anybody doing more than someone who says less about somebody like if somebody is questioning your financial decisions I can promise you they know not that much about finance because the people that are doing well they're making decisions that are in line with their values and it's not your place to question them yeah but and the second people are like oh my god here's a piece of judgment you're like oh okay

that says a lot about you not a lot about me yeah so anyway I love that tell me a little bit about what you're not so good at like do you have a worst money habit that you'd be able to identify or are you a true a minus but should be a plus no I have two you have two okay tell me one of them is actually so closely related to what we're just talking about I am so bad with comparison I'm picking that up I'm picking that up and I'm trying to like push it out I know I know and I was actually reading your investment book at the moment and I just was last night reading the but that's like, stop comparing yourself. And I'm like, but seriously, do you know how often we compare ourselves to people who we see and we go, oh my God, they're doing so well. And then

like, you can't see their debt. And then you're like, oh, I wish I, you know, had a better car or a better house or, oh my God, they own a property or they do this or they do that. But like they're in mountains of debt and they're stressed and they have a terrible relationship because all they do is fight because money's really tight. And then that's not what you want, my friend I know but it's the like even just with my partner so I know exactly the position he's in and like I look at his super and his investments and I'm like oh my god I could be doing so much better like I could be contributing so much more but then I'm like no he doesn't have the same values like he doesn't want to go to brunch as much as I do and that kind of thing and that's

fine but it's so hard to like not look at that and be like I could be doing better especially Especially when it's in your house, but then also like, obviously I'm picking up that you guys have separate finances, which is very exciting. Like everyone manages things differently in relationships, but at the end of the day, like your team and him doing well, ultimately is you doing well and you doing your things is positively contributing to his life because he has a happy partner. Yes, that's true. Like, so you are welcome. Not only do I have a happy partner, I've got a well-manicured one. Yes. Exactly. And that makes us happy. And I think that that needs to be taken into consideration as well. Cause it's like, it's so easy to look at his

bank balance and be like, it's higher. I could be doing more. I could be doing better, but at what cost? Yeah, no, a hundred percent. But I think my other worst money habit is fear or maybe like pessimism, but I'm just like, so yeah, like everything we've talked about, whenever I hear someone talking about purchasing a house and they're like oh you know just buy whatever house you can always buy another one when you earn more money and I'm like I think I'm operating at my max level capacity I don't know that there's a world in which I will want to be earning more money like I don't know if I can handle more stress than once in my life at the moment and it's just something I think about a lot it's just like I think this is maybe it but I know I need to work on being

less afraid because I have set myself up pretty well but it's still there like it's still I feel like this might go back to your money story of connecting the dots here watching your parents work so hard and your dad get his own job and then it may be not working out as well and that being a really big scary financial decision and you're going I still feel like things are fragile you could do absolutely everything right and then maybe not end up in a secure financial position do you feel like that's playing into it? Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. I was reflecting on that a bit this morning and I was like, my parents did such a good job of like setting my sister and I up, like making sure we went to a nice school, even though it was public school, it was still

really good public school. And like they did so much, but I don't know that they were doing enough for their future. And yeah, it's definitely looking at that being like, I want to do more for me. Yeah. And I think that that's really important, but that goes back to the comparison. Cause I think your comparison is coming from fear. You're like looking at other people's money goals and going, oh, well, I'm scared of buying a house. Like you told me earlier that that's just not a value to you. So stop pointing in the direction of property and being like, I'm really scared to buy property. You already decided you don't want to, nor do you have to. No one's going to force a property down your throat and be like, hey, money diarist, can you cough up that deposit

tomorrow? Like we didn't consent to this. Like that's not what we're doing. I think it's so hard though but the flip side of that is like well then I'm retiring and I have to pay rent forever and like what oh no you have to pay rent with the money that you have in abundance when you retire and won't ever have an issue paying rent that must be so hard fear of the unknown though you know you don't know what you don't know I suppose and at the end of the day it is not I feel like the great Australian dream has been shoved down our throats for so long that we just assume the only way to be financially secure is to own the roof that's over our head. And I can tell you now, when I was a financial advisor, I had some very wealthy clients that didn't want to own property,

were earning millions and still rented. Like one of them rented one of the most beautiful apartments in the Melbourne CBD, like level 50, like looked incredible. And the reason they did was because they did all of the maths and realized the body corporate fees, the overheads, like they were like, I don't want to pay a mortgage. Like I'm just going to pay rent and this is going to be my lifestyle. I'm just going to see it as a lifestyle cost. They could afford it. They even negotiated a minimum of a five-year lease. And do you know what? If I owned a very expensive apartment and somebody really rich came and said, I really don't want to own. You can own. Can I have a longer lease with you? I'd let them sign that in 0.2 seconds. So there are so many options moving

forward. But the key to having options is money. And that's the key that you actually hold. So over time I think it's about finding ways for you to feel more secure and if that means going oh we actually really like this apartment that we live in in you know the city we're not too afraid if rent went up a little bit over time but like we'd like to feel more secure maybe think about negotiating a longer lease term if you see yourself there for the long term because then you can feel more secure like what are those things that are going to help you have that level of security without taking on another commitment that you clearly don't want to take on. So true.

All right. Money Durst, we've talked. Why aren't you an A plus? Like what do you have to do to get there? Those two things? Those two things. Yeah. All right. Look, I'll agree with you, but I feel like those are the things that we as women struggle the most with as well. Like that is not easy. Comparison culture, feeling like you've got imposter syndrome, like it's almost ingrained in us. Like it's something that like, if you don't have it, like, what are you doing? so welcome to the club it's a terrible club but at least we're all here together yeah I think as well like there are just a few little things here and there like I oh my gosh it took me a whole entire year to get my personal insurances sorted out and I finally got them but I'm accident only

on two of them and I don't love that I did get a second opinion and they were kind of like yeah that's probably right I don't love that and I don't love that I don't fully understand like I've signed the stuff a couple of months ago and I only yesterday did I look to see if it was stepped or not like that kind of thing. And I'm like, I'm not a hundred percent across it. And it's a bit, and there's a couple of things like that where I'm like, I don't really understand this. And we should have come to me and got a referral to Sky Wealth so that we could have set it all up and then it would have made absolute sense. But well, they were my second opinion. So they will explain to you exactly what you need, when, where, and how. So I have no doubt you'll

get it? In a couple of years, I think I'll review it again. I love that. All right, Money Dara, sadly, we have run out of time. This has been a beautiful conversation. I feel like you are so inspirational, but just I feel like it's the small steps that all add up into creating financial freedom. And I mean, I'm pretty sure that if I took it back to $60,000 a year job, you who had just lost her role and was like, what is going on? And going, hey, did you know that like don't worry about this because like one day you'll be on a trajectory to having like a five million dollar investment portfolio you'd feel a little bit better about the situation and I think that that's what we all need to take from this that like those blips in the road they feel like

they are the be all end all and they are life ruining but they're not like once you start to zoom out you're like oh that's just a thing that happened one time but at the time I can almost guarantee that you felt like your world was ending oh yeah big time so hysterical but it's not hysterical like that was life-changing at that point in time but now you're like hold on like I'm actually doing pretty well and that worked out nicely for me so it's a good learning for all of us yeah money diarist I have adored this thank you so much for spending a bit of time with me having a like doing a little money diary I know our community is going to adore this because I absolutely have so I really appreciate it awesome thank you so much

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