She's On The Money - Hannah Ferguson on Workplace Equality, Ethics & OnlyFans

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Join Jess and Bec for another fabulous Friday as they catch up with the incredible Hannah Ferguson - the founder and CEO of Cheek Media Co! The gals share your money wins and losses, plus a broke tip or two. AND this week a few spicy ones for your day; Firstly a Money Dilemma about being stuck in a workplace that promotes men over women. Plus you D.Md us this week about what to do when you find out your sister makes her money on OnlyFans. What's the line between your duty of care, and crossing a boundary? The gals have thoughts and feelings on this one, tune in to find out! Some useful links:Workplace Gender Equality AgencyFind Hannah on instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Jessica Ricci, and today, of course, as always, I'm joined by Bec Syed because it is Friday, and we're here to celebrate you guys, the incredible She's on the Money community. Today, I'm going to be sharing some of my favorite money wins. Bec is going to share some wonderful broke tips, and then we'll be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma. This week, it's all about what to do in a workplace that promotes men over women, hate. and then we're also going to unpack something you slid into our DMs about and this week we're

chatting about what to do when you discover your sister has an OnlyFans. Okay that's I'm really excited for those ones. I have a lot of opinions already but I'm going to hush hush and today Jess you might notice we do have a special guest in studio. Hannah Ferguson is the founder and chief executive officer of Cheek Media Co. Welcome Hannah. Tell us a little bit about Cheek Media. Thank you so much for having me both of you. I am so excited to be here. I feel like I was just saying to you before, both of you are on my screen every day. I'm watching the reels. I'm addicted to them. And I was like so excited to be part of a reel, potentially to be in the presence of the reels on my Instagram feed. But it's so nice. But Cheek Media is essentially a progressive

feminist media platform that commentates on all the big issues in politics, media, and also to things like sex and relationships, just more social and cultural commentary. I also have a podcast, which is a news and pop culture podcast called Big Small Talk, which I co-host with my co-founder Sarah. And then I also have a book called Bite Back. So that's kind of like how Cheek the Umbrella works. I have different few things going on at once. And the Instagram is cheekmedia.co. So it's really just like feminist left wing opinion on the current news of the day. It's one of my favorite Instagram accounts. Like you guys do such a great job of keeping up with current stuff, but also having a really, I think, relevant, still balanced take because there are a

lot of things, I think, well, speaking for everyone on our team, really, we're all very much devoutly feminist, I suppose you could say. And, you know, I think sometimes when you are that way, it can be difficult to report on things in a way that isn't biased. And I feel like you do a really good job sometimes of those tougher conversations or those tougher perspectives and, you know, sharing a really fair and measured perspective. Thank you. That means a lot because it is stressful and we know what social media is like. It's reactionary and it can be quite inflammatory. So it's kind of hard to know how to have the take and the opinion on things that are always unfolding in the news as well. And always changing. And the internet is so hard. Everybody has an opinion and you can't do

anything without, I feel like, irritating someone these days, which is really challenging. But you do a wonderful job at navigating it. Before we get into it, though, have you had a busy week? Yes, I've just recorded my podcast this morning. I've actually, I'm writing my second book right now. So it's a really tight deadline. There's lots happening. It's very exciting. I mean, no complaints from me. It's a privilege, but it's been a big few weeks. So I've got social netball on tonight, all the big hitters, you know, everything's important. So no, it's been a really big few weeks, but I'm very happy. I'm going well. How about you both? Really good. Can you give us the inside scoop on what the book's about? Any

little insider info? I actually haven't talked about it, but I can. I think I can. It's your exclusive breaking news. Is that in a reel? Brooke, I'm talking to you. um basically the second book is going to be more about societal taboos and what we don't talk about as women and the conversations that we should have been having at 14 15 16 and the things that we need to know in our 20s and 30s that were never spoken about and so it's kind of like we do get a lot of self-help books we do get a lot of sort of messaging through social media about what to do and what not to do but it never gets to that gritty underneath layer that we aren't talking about so it's me trying to have the conversations that we've never had well that sounds amazing and

I just feel like it's so needed. Thank you. I hope so. Completely agree. Bexta, how's your week been? My week has been not bad. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but just Hannah for context, I recently was made redundant. So I've kind of not been, I've kind of just been using this time to, first of all, look for jobs. First and foremost. First and foremost, try and find another stream of income. And then also just like living life, you know, just doing all the things that I've surprisingly been like really busy. And I was kind of worried about that. I was like, what do you know when you go on annual leave and stuff and you're like, what are you actually meant to do? You know, you kind of wake up and

you're like, what's, what do I do today? But, you know, shockingly being quite busy and just like trying to take this time because I know that hopefully I'll find a job soon. So being social, doing all the things that I can't really do when I have a full-time job. So it's been, it's been really lovely and really wholesome. And yeah, I just, I've really enjoyed this time. So maybe I don't want to go back. What about you? Good. Nothing crazy exciting to report. I feel like just plodding along. I've started going to Pilates. So in my Pilates princess era, trying to be healthier. And I feel like I have, I mean, we all have our own very unique relationship with what that looks like. And that can be really challenging in and of itself. But trying to just

be like, okay, you know what, if I go once this week, like that's enough. And if I don't go at all, that is also okay. Because I feel like I'm very an all or nothing mentality. And I go, I'm going to go every other day and I'm going to get so fit. I'm going to do this and that. And I really struggle with that because it's hard to commit to. Like, we're so busy and, you know, work is always crazy and socialising and I side hustle and sometimes it all just gets so much. And I feel like we were talking on an episode very recently

about setting yourself up for success or failure with goals. And so I'm trying to just be kind to myself with those sorts of things and be like, hey, like, if you go once, that's awesome. And if you don't go at all, that's cool too. So working on that at the moment. I love that because, you know, when you, like, you do set such a strict goal and you're like, I'm going to go to the gym every single day and then you don't do one day and then you feel like you've completely failed. So you just

end up stopping for the week or for the month or whatever. So yeah, just be kind to yourself and just let yourself go through the motions. Love that for you. Speaking of little wins, Jess, you have some money wins from the community? Absolutely, I do. There's some goodies this week, starting off with a hilarious but also great one from Nicole who said, money win. I bought an eight pack of sausages and there were nine in there. Oh, that's so good. I just feel like a little, it's like the nuggets when you get an extra nugget, such a little treat. Now I've got one from Maria who said money win. I've been collecting my bottles and cans for two weeks and you get 10 cents a can back and it was free money. I got $66 plus another $92 with stuff I

collected from work. So she's made, I'm trying to do the math in my head really quickly here, $158 I think. I think so. I'm sure someone will tell me if that's not correct. $150 collecting bottles and cans. And that's a lot of bottles and cans that are no longer out in the world, which is awesome. That's incredible. Huge one. And then I've got a money win from Imogen who said, this week I finally hit my $15,000 savings goal thanks to the She's On The Money hack sheets. I've worked extra shifts every fortnight and I was able to hit the goal four pays early, which is huge. If you want to get those hacks, they're free on our website. It's like bingo, but with money and it's very fun. Sick. I love that. Next, I've got a money win from Tara and she said, if you're in

New South Wales and you use toll roads, I recommend using the app and getting your rebate for either this year or last year if you hit the threshold. They don't tell you automatically, so you have to go into the app and check. Both herself and her partner got a couple of hundred dollars back each. And you're in Sydney, aren't you, Hannah? Have you ever done that? Yes, but I was going to say my win slash loss, because I had a bit of both, was that I got a parking ticket in Sydney because I've just moved to the city where it's like one hour parking and so like I'm done with the tolls the tolls aren't my nightmare right and I always try to fight the admin fees if I ever miss one that's a big deal to me yes but with the parking ticket my property was listed as a commercial

business not a residence so I applied for a parking permit and they said no so then I fought that and in the meantime I was getting parking tickets because I have this one hour parking and I fought them all and said you've not actually provided me with a parking permit I've been trying gonna fight you on it and I got all these parking tickets wiped oh my god that's so good and obviously I knew I could do it like I believed that this was wrong but I was so worried they weren't going to accept the reasoning so I just had like a clean slate now and the anxiety was building and that's most of it it's so much anxiety around looming spending and so I was like to have that cleared win after a quite a significant L it felt like so I'm very pleased

with myself right now that's so good did you end up getting a permit no yes yes it's all fine now it's all good but it was it was a stressful three weeks there oh my gosh that's crazy i love taking a loss making it a win that's awesome yeah and also just like battling the big dogs you know what i mean really that's really cool writing the letter you know there's like i have a law degree it's kind of my background so writing that letter is sweet victory you know what i mean like it's just getting really professional behind a keyboard in like a nasty kind linkedin way you know what i me i am professionally keyboard worrying you that is so awesome perfect and that will round out the money wins and losses this week beck have you got some fabulous broke tips for us i do have some

broke tips for you guys one in particular i'm very excited about so as always there's one from the community one for myself and then hannah if you happen to have one we'll go to you after but first one comes from jocelyn who says join your local buy nothing group i've gotten everything from yarn to containers to TV stands for free. Saves your wallet and saves things from going to landfill. I love that. It's also the same as like hard rubbish and stuff like that. Don't sneeze at hard rubbish. There are some really good finds out there. I love picking something up from the side of the curb. And similarly, if you have stuff to get rid of, I've done this when I've moved house, is if there's like a Facebook group for the area that you live, like if the estate or the

suburb or whatever, if you've got stuff and you need to get rid of it, just chucking up a post and saying, hey, like here's a photo of all the stuff. It's on my nature strip if you want to come grab it because it goes to someone who wants it it means that you don't have to take it to the op shop or take it to the tip or take it anywhere like it's all done for you and i feel like it's just a nice way to pay it forward yeah true in this economy we love helping other people absolutely and also yes that's true you do save money on like going to the tip it's actually surprisingly expensive yeah um because they weigh your car while you're in it you're like i don't i'm you know i'm contributing at least however many kilos exactly like let me get out first and then you can

weigh my rubbish. And then my own personal broke tip, and you know, I usually kind of like to come at this from, you know, a perspective of, let's say you have $15 to last you the week, like how do you kind of get through? But this one's more a broke tip for the future. Have you guys heard of the app Grow Your Money? No. It's really, really cool. So a friend was telling me about this. It's an app for women or female identifying. And it's basically like if you go to certain stores that have agreement, like this app has agreements with certain stores. If you spend money there, a percentage of that spend or that purchase will go into your either mortgage or your super. It's kind of like on the way to bridging the gender pay gap in a nice little way. You know

what I mean? Like it's doing their bit. So grow your money app. I really recommend it. Hannah, do you happen to have a broke tip that you'd like to share? Look, I'm not sure that mine's that original, but it's something that's original to me because I've just come across it. And when I published my book, I noticed that so many people were queuing up at libraries to get it and I was like okay is that I just I'd never thought about libraries obviously I knew they existed I love them as a child but I'd never thought about how that actually works for authors but authors are still paid every time a book is borrowed from a library so if you're someone who goes to libraries and borrows books don't be worried about how much

the author makes because they're still getting I think it's like a dollar fifty per borrow but libraries also have an application which has hundreds of audiobooks on it that you can access for free so if you're someone who likes audiobooks but doesn't want to pay for audible because it's It's really expensive, a lot of audio listening apps. Libraries have an actual catalogue that you can access on your phone. You don't have to go in and hire a disc. Like you actually can access this material for free. And I think that a lot of people who are avid readers

wouldn't know about it potentially. No, and it's such a good, if you're someone who likes to read, but maybe you don't have the time or the attention span, audiobooks are great because you can two times speed them and just zoom through that thing. Absolutely. I can't absorb information that fast, but if you can, that's a great idea. That's an awesome one. All right, guys. Well, let's run to a really quick break. And when we

come back on the other side, we're going to chat about what to do in a workplace that promotes men over women and what to do when you discover your sister is on OnlyFans. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. Let's take a listen to this week's Money Dilemma. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's on the Money team is here to help. Every week, we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording and you might just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to this week's money dilemma. Hey, girls, I'm a chef in a mostly male kitchen at a very popular and

high level restaurant. I've worked so hard to rise through the ranks here. And in case you didn't know, kitchens are super male dominated and intense work environments. I've put in long hours and I do extra work to create special dishes in my own time that sell out when they go on the menu. But I've just been overlooked for a promotion that would see more pay for a male chef who's not only newer on the team, but doesn't do any of this work. I'm devastated. Should I leave? Raise it with my boss? Or am I just being silly? Oh, that's such a tough one. It's making me angry just thinking about it that's why you're not being silly that's yeah i was about to say that too the starters that's an easy one it's not silly at all and i think that's that's the first step

isn't it is that women tend to demean themselves out of the ability to ask questions and to apply for roles they may not feel they're qualified for even though they absolutely are and we use the language against ourselves in the first instance that really prevents us from almost acts as an extra blockade to our success you know the system is against us and then we're against ourselves so that's not helpful in the first instance, really. No, definitely not. And it's hard. I think it's applicable to so many industries beyond hospitality. Obviously, anyone who's a waitress can attest to the fact that kitchens are absolutely insane and generally men and they're always yelling and they're doing this, that and the other. Quite frankly, they could probably use a

woman's touch to make a little, you know, bring a little organization, not to generalize. But yeah, I think it's applicable to so many industries well beyond hospitality. Do you guys think, I mean, my opinion really is, yeah, you should leave if they're overlooking you. I think that it sounds like a cultural issue, but I feel like it could be worth raising it too, because sometimes these biases are really unconscious. And, you know, if we don't have the conversations, we can't necessarily expect to facilitate change. I know that it can be really tough to have those conversations. And I'd love to know how you guys think that our listener could approach something like that it's so tough because it really like it is still a thing I guess like I am curious to know

like if your boss is male or female seriously because like I don't want if you are to talk to your boss like I don't want you to feel like deflated or kind of like you know not to throw this word around so liberally but you know you might be gaslit into believing that it's genuinely not a gender thing and really we can speak from experience and like see that from experience it's it does seem that in these kind of situations men tend to get promoted over women and it's it's really a shame it's just such an I'm so sick of this kind of thing happening who knows like we're not there we don't know the context we could all be like you know assuming but I just don't like that this is still a thing I think yes maybe have a chat with your boss try not to get deflated if

your boss is not really seeing what you're seeing or just like is kind of making you feel like it's it's not gender related. Like it actually might not be, but still. And then yes, try and find a company that supports women and that is maybe run by women, owned by women. I don't know, but just try and find a different culture. Like as Jess says, I feel like it is probably more cultural, but yeah, it is a thing that happens. You're not being silly. You're not crazy. You're not silly. You're not any of these things. It's, I basically want you to validate yourself because we're validating you. And I think one of the most common experiences, especially in the workplace, that's being described is that there's a lack of a paper trail. So at least in corporate offices,

there's always this sort of like paper trail where you can clearly see the communication and lay out a timeline of events that may actually speak to the fact that this is more objective gender discrimination and gives more rise to like a professional formal complaint that can be made and taken to somewhere like the Fair Work Commission or a body that's suited to deal with something like this. But it's so hard when you're working, say, in a kitchen as a chef and you know that all of the interactions you're having or 90% of them are not via text or via phone call or via voicemail or via email and there's a lack of a trail that you feel you can speak to objective evidence right so it is something where you want to be raising it with

your boss in the first instance and just asking I would even suggest like in the first instance having the conversation not through the lens of is it because I'm a woman but saying like can you just explain to me why this person was selected not in like an obviously like a personal attack way but almost in a looking for feedback as to what could be done next time because if you approach the conversation like that even though you could be absolutely enraged and have every right to be you're opening up a conversation where they're pretty much giving you the answer consciously or not as to what happened there and you can take whatever information you gathered and actually move forward with that and I think that can be really telling because then if they

point to specific things and you have your arguments of when you started what your qualifications are and the distinction between you and the person that was chosen over you you can then start to paint a clearer picture as to what's happened and whether that's that you want to make a gender discrimination complaint about your workplace formally whether you want to look for work elsewhere i think it's about having the conversation in the first instance to kind of look at okay what reasoning has been communicated to me and how do i feel about that reasoning before you can make any further steps yeah really good point i was gonna say ask for the data i say so to speak around you know having the conversation with your manager or whoever was doing the hiring

you know I saw that xyz got this job I also applied for this job can you explain to me you know what were the points of difference between us maybe they say oh they've got this qualification or they've got this skill or they've done this or done that and then you can use that metric as a baseline to say oh well actually I have this or I have that or I did this instead and it as you were saying it really opens up firstly the opportunity for conversation where you know if it is a situation where perhaps the deciding factor wasn't gender biased then you know now you have an understanding of what your clear markers or steps are to receive that promotion opportunity next time it comes up and if that's not the case if you know it is leaning more towards

the space of you are being discriminated against it gives you something concrete and solid to say hey like based on the facts based on the statistics that we can't argue with this is the experience that I'm having and it allows you to have that conversation either with your manager or as you were saying with the appropriate body to report them be that fair work or somebody else in a way that isn't skewed by emotion because I think when we have these conversations around gender bias it tends to often be brought up oh you're being emotional or women have a tendency to be emotional you have a tendency to take it a certain way and I think if we take the emotion out of it and really just operate on solid facts, solid information, and wherever possible,

document it in writing. So via email, via text, because as Hannah was saying, a lot of the time in these kinds of workplaces, someone's yelling something at someone across the kitchen and it's not necessarily formally documented. Having that concrete, inarguable evidence, so to speak, will help you down the line, no matter what choice you want to make in terms of how you pursue it, I think. Yeah. And I also, I was just going to add the one thing I would recommend everyone go and have a look at is the Workplace Gender Equality Agency, which is the government's agency that really looks into things like the gender pay gap and gender discrimination laws in this country. And it's not about saying you need to pursue a formal complaint, that's

totally up to you, but it gives you the tools and the resources to know what your workplace rights are and how to pursue that line if you are interested in it down the track. And also just a lot of really interesting data and statistics like we reference their data a lot in posts that we do for Instagram and stuff because they have a lot of just really good information it's coming from a government body so you know that it's solid you know that it's really holistic and they have an Instagram they have very few followers but I would definitely recommend checking them out because they do share a lot of interesting stats on there it's WGE agency is their Instagram but yeah I feel like that wraps that up in a nice little bow more than anything I just want to say

I'm sorry. I think a lot of us can relate to being in that situation where you feel like perhaps you're in a male dominated space and you're not being heard or honoured in the way that you deserve to be. And that just can impact like how you feel about yourself as well. And I just want to say that you're valid and your skill set and just you as a human being is not based on the perception that the people around you have in the workplace or in any other situation either. And I'm sorry that that's happening to you and you 100% deserve better. Don't overlook or minimise that feeling. Yeah, absolutely. Very well said. Thank you. Should we change the tune ever so slightly and take on this week's spicy DM?

Yes, please. All right. So we, as always, put a call out on Instagram if you're not following us. It's at she's on the money, A-U-S. And we shared this DM that we received. Hey, she's on the money. I have a DM for you. My sister who works in retail has just disclosed to me that she makes most of her money on OnlyFans. I want to straight up say that I have no problem whatsoever with women making their way through the world, however they choose, and good on her for making an income through OnlyFans. And I do truly feel this, but she is also my sister and I feel worried for her long-term future and well-being in doing this. She has said that she's dropped her hours at her

retail job as she makes more money on OnlyFans, but I don't think that she should be relying on this as her primary form of income am i a bad feminist for feeling concerned for her and not being 100 supportive can i voice my concern to her there's so many facets so many i was worried actually i was really worried when i first started hearing this because i was like you know how i feel about only fans i think it's absolutely fine for anyone to do anything in any way they want if all parties are consenting everyone's happy who actually cares you know what i mean like we use our ears as an audio producer we use our mouths as announcers like we use I don't really get it I don't really get it and it's been kind of like explained me in many different ways but I still

don't get why OnlyFans is an issue at all so I was kind of worried there for a second but I'm happy to see that she's not coming from it as you know in any kind of bad way but I mean what is bad you know what's the definition of anything but I think it's fair enough it's valid to think like if this is a I suppose like a career that is not really maybe going to take her into her like you know later years in life or maybe she's going to stop this eventually and you kind of just want her to focus on something that will be a little bit more like long lasting or something she can fall back on just in case it stops working out that's a different story and I really that is a really tough one like how do you even broach that subject you know that's yeah like you're against what

she's doing. Yeah. It's tough because it sounds like it's coming from a good place. And as someone who has a corporate background, I understand that, you know, digital footprint is something that's very real and we all have to be conscious of what we put on the internet and the potential implications for that. Do I personally believe that people should be able to do whatever they want and that should have no bearing on their career opportunities or how they're perceived publicly? Absolutely. But unfortunately, that isn't the world that we live in currently. And I I guess I understand wanting to make sure that she's aware that the choices that she makes may have those implications. For example, industries like teaching, I could see it potentially being

something that could become an issue, you know, because they have very strict rules around, you know, what people can and can't do. Again, not that I agree that that should be the case, but I also do very much think, you know, she's her own human and she deserves her own autonomy. And if it's something that she's happy and she's safe and she's making money, as you were saying, back, I think like that is the most important thing. As for bringing it up, it's a really tough conversation because I don't, even now us having this conversation, I'm struggling to convey how I feel in a way that acknowledges what I feel to be all of the relevant and important things, because part of me wants to say, like, yeah, girl, get your bag, do what you do, proud and

happy for you. But the other part of me wants to say, hey, but there are these other things to consider there are you know the reality is there may be implications you know you I want you to be aware of that too because I don't want that to stop you from getting your dream job down the track and I don't know how you could approach that and then there's I don't have a sister but I imagine that's a very challenging bond to navigate in and of itself as well so I don't know I don't really know what the answer is but Hannah you look like you definitely have something to say I find this really it's such a great question it is a bit spicy and it's a bit complicated but I honestly feel that the fact that we're all a bit like clearly like oh nervous to

talk about it speaks to what the real problem is and the problem isn't only friends the problem is social expectation and judgment right and so yes the the problem is not and I think I would say to this person your concern and your like sort of insecure feelings around this aren't actually steeped in a regressive or conservative view that you hold they're steeped in the fact that you worry how other people will perceive your sister. And so you're taking on the mental load of that concern of judgment that society might hold for her and what that means for her. That's coming from a good place. But I think it's about considering how you then approach that conversation because like as feminists, I say absolutely get it. What I would say the conversation would be

from my perspective is not saying, should you be doing OnlyFans? No, slay. The conversation should be hey what is your long-term savings plan and what is your protective layer here in case you were to struggle to find work afterwards because we know how society is I think it's about approaching it from the judgment perspective and saying I'm with you but financially security wise what is your plan because I want to protect you from what other people might say and think if you want to go into x y or z industry because I would say that to myself and my sister I'd be like do you have you know, financial advice? Do you have an accountant? Do you need help with your actual financial management to make you feel secure in your progressive awesome choices? Because I would

say it is super impressive that you have the like fortitude to go and do that and to make money from it and to be super impressive. But think about it this way. Politicians for a long time received a guaranteed pension after retirement because there was a belief and that belief was quite true that after someone retired from politics, they would struggle to find a job because of things they'd said and done in their role that was very public. It's kind of the same thing. There is a risk associated and it's how you protect someone from that risk. So it's not problematic to worry because you're worrying about, you want to protect your sister from society, you're not judging her. And so as long as you've asked yourself those questions about where your worry is coming from, and as long

as that's not judgment from you, just work out what is your worry and articulate that in a protective and considered way, I think, because she's doing well. And as long as she can continue to do well and prepare for the future, so be it. Yeah. You've put it really eloquently there. I completely agree. And the other thing that I would maybe suggest bringing up or asking her about is what she's doing with her money right now, because she said that she's obviously earning more than she was in her retail wage. And we've had a few OnlyFans creators on the podcast before for Money Diaries. And if you haven't listened to those episodes, you can find them by searching up she's on the Money Only fans. There's been some great ones. But something that we've heard when

talking to people is that sometimes they go from earning not a lot, they're just earning an ordinary solid wage to earning, in some cases, crazy amounts of money that you could only dream of. And when people, it's kind of like winning the lottery, like you're not always prepared or equipped for that situation. And people historically have often gone, oh my God, I have all this money that I didn't have before and they've blown it. Whereas it's a really good time for her now, like you were saying Hannah to be thinking about her future should she be investing should she be putting money aside in savings how is she putting the extra money that she has now to work to support her if she can't find employment or even if she decides to keep doing OnlyFans like whatever

her future looks like I think not taking her newfound success and letting that get away from her because I think too many times we've seen people who have had an opportunity and not handled their money in perhaps the best way. They've not had the right advisors or support around them. And that has meant that that opportunity or that influx of cash has kind of been rendered redundant. And we don't want to see that happen to her either. Absolutely. What does the community have to say? Let me tell you. So we started off by asking, have you ever been concerned by your friend or family member's career choice? 59% of people said yes, which shocked me. And 41% of people said no. Then we said, if yes, did you voice this concern to them? 58% of people said no,

it's not my place to comment on it. 15% of people said yes, and it didn't go well. And 27% of people said yes, and we had a good chat about it. So an overwhelming majority of people were concerned for something that someone they loved was doing, but didn't bring it up to them, which is crazy. and then we said tell us your two cents and it was a really varied mix of responses and I think people coming from kind of the different perspectives that we've discussed here one person said you're right to be concerned your sister needs to have a backup plan for if her OnlyFans income dries up somebody else said it's very hard to earn good or consistent income from something like OnlyFans is she putting all of her eggs in one basket but somebody else said make the

money while she can. She can always go back to retail whenever she wants. Somebody said, don't worry about other people's money and how they make it. And I wanted to ask you guys about this because it's a bit of a catch-22, right? It's the feeling concern for the people that we love and wanting the best for them. You know, the sister obviously wants to just make sure that her sister is doing well. Our listeners who have responded to the poll have obviously seen some kind of red flag in the choices that their friends or family are making. But if you see something that's wrong and you don't voice your concern, is that doing the right thing because it's not your place to have an opinion on what somebody else is

doing? Or is it a little bit of a disservice to the person you love by not making sure or helping them to chat about something? I think that when we talk about money, it's one of the biggest taboo subjects, right? It's a taboo. So my thing is, it's exactly what you were just saying. it's this really kind of double standard hypocritical thing we're saying oh we shouldn't talk about it but we're actually a lot of the point of choosing the money is to empower women

by having conversations that traditionally we weren't allowed or able or feeling comfortable to have what I would say the difference is here just from my consideration then is the reason people don't approach the conversations because they think there's judgment and they don't want to hurt the relationship yeah but that's why I think it comes back to the how I think it comes back to sitting with yourself and saying, where is my concern coming from? And is that fair and justified concern? And how can I approach this in the way that actually expresses the concern without conveying judgment? Because we shouldn't be silent on money because it's money. That's just going back to that archaic way of thinking that prevents women from earning more, asking for

more pay, asking for better conditions and more flexible working arrangements. We need to converse. It's about how we do it in a respectful and comfortable, secure way. Yes. Yes. I completely agree with that. I was going to say something very similar, but not as well articulated for sure. That's ridiculous. I'm sure it's going to be. Oh, pressure's on, pressure's on. No, I was basically just going to say like, you know, as well, as you said, Hannah, like trying to figure out where the concern comes from. I think that if you are in a position where you're kind of concerned about someone's career choice or what they're doing and you want to voice your opinion, really just figuring out what's the root of your

concerned because if it's like I don't like OnlyFans then that's you know you're gonna have to start breaking down your own like way of thinking and being like where does that come from is that my train of thought or is that society's train of thought and where like is that even based in anything like probably actually not but if it's actually like you know I don't know let's say your partner is a firefighter and you're scared because that's actually really really dangerous kind of career you know just trying to figure out the actual root of your own thinking and asking why why why until you break it all the way down and if you still have solid reason to be concerned then yes exactly like kind of like approaching it in a way that's not

judgmental in a way that's kind of like objective in kind compassionate and yeah so that's sorry that's the long longest way to answer your question no I agree and I think a really interesting point that you've both brought up and something that I would like to just say very clearly is I think that there is something very positive in critically looking at your thought patterns and processes. And even if you come to realise that something you are thinking or feeling is a response to a societal standard that perhaps doesn't sit well with your values, we need to remember that a lot of things are so ingrained in us because it's what we've seen and watched and learned from a really young age and to undo that train of thinking does take conscious effort and so even if your

knee-jerk response to this as a listener was you know well she shouldn't be doing OnlyFans maybe that was your immediate response and upon reflection if you go why was I thinking that was it coming from a place of concern for her future was it coming from a place of maybe I'm not as positive of women in the sex industry looking at why and how that is I think don't feel like you're a bad person if you necessarily are repeating thought patterns that you have been exposed to. Because I think we can all identify as feminists, but still have things that we need to work on and understand within ourselves. It is actually, speaking from my personal experience, like it takes some work to undo those intrinsic thoughts and those patterns and feelings. And

that is something that is active. And that comes from those reflections that you have in your thoughts and your feelings and your responses. And sometimes you don't even realize that they're there until you experience something that brings it up and prompts that response from you and so I just want to say if that is the case don't feel like that makes you inherently a bad person like reflection is a good thing that's what makes us grow totally because I don't want to villainize I guess the idea of something that maybe you didn't know that was there if that makes any sense yeah totally it really comes back to like a person's intention versus their impact because your intention could be to have like a conversation that shows you care but if you haven't really

thought about how you're going to do that and what's at the root of your thoughts your impact is going to actually have a gap between intention and impact and you can't always control and it's not your job to control your impact but if someone comes back to you and says it hurt you it hurt them or it made them uncomfortable that really is showing that gap so it's about sitting with it and considering it before you actually land yeah absolutely and as you said having it in a kind and considered way. And that seems to be really reflective of the things that some people are saying. It falls into two camps. Some people are expressing concern. Some people are saying it sounds like the sister does have a problem with OnlyFans and, you know, we only have the information

that was provided to us. But I think the overarching outcome here and from a lot of our listeners is as long as she's making considered choices and is aware of the broader impacts, you know, let her do what she wants, but it's not a bad thing for her sister and our listener to have that conversation as long as it's done in a kind and compassionate way. Absolutely. Amazing. Any last thoughts from anyone before we wrap up? I think I'm really satisfied with that. That was a really good one. Hannah, you are so articulate and wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts. You are the best. Absolutely wonderful. Thank you. I love you both. Thank you for having me. It's been a privilege. Come back anytime. And if people want to hear more

from yourself. You said earlier, you're on the podcast, you're on Instagram. There's another book on the way. There's one already out, which is wonderful. Anywhere else that people should be looking to find you? Those are the places I'm on TikTok and I have a personal Instagram as well, but they're all linked to each other. So if you find one, you pretty much find it all. So thank you again. You're in the ecosystem, which is great. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us, everybody. We had a wonderful time as always, and Victoria will see you bright and early on Monday for A Money Diary. Have a good weekend. Bye, guys. Bye. the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your

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