She's On The Money - Having Difficult Conversations With Your Boss

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

One of the most common questions we get from our community is how to have that tricky conversation with your boss. So on this episode we talk about common workplace complaints, how to research and negotiate a pay rise and how to be more assertive. We also touch on discrimination laws in Australia and the fair work commission, with some resources you can lean on if you have experienced discrimination, harassment or unsafe conditions. Here are some useful links:Fair Work CommissionAttorney General's Department: Australia's Anti-Discrimination LawThe advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are Authorised Representatives of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness. She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's On The Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Georgia King and joining me as she does each and every week is Victoria Devine. V, how are you?

J. King-Ontua, I am well. Thank you for having me once again on our joint podcast. Glad to hear it. Now, the past two years have changed the world of work as we know it. A wise woman once said, J. King. Absolutely. And while much has been made of the Great Resignation, people are starting to focus on the Great Upgrade, with organisations refocusing their attempts to improve the experience of their staff. This shift emphasises retention, putting the onus on organisations to retain the talent they already have and keep them happy while also attracting new talent. Please don't leave, J. King. Other people who are like J. King, please come here.

But staying happy in the workplace is an ongoing struggle. And one of the most common questions we get from our community is how to have that tricky conversation with your boss. Today, we're going to talk about common workplace complaints, how to research and negotiate a pay rise, and how to become more assertive. We want a coffee machine in the office. We do. Corey, if you're listening. We'll also touch on discrimination laws in Australia and the Fair Work Commission with some resources you can lean on if you have experienced discrimination, harassment or unsafe conditions in the workplace. That's a lot. Just a bit to get through today. Just a tiny bit, just a few things. Mainly the coffee machine. Yeah, well, that's the main takeaway. But what

are you looking forward to in today's show? I feel like too many times our community aren't empowered to have conversations they deserve to have. So it's not just, oh, it would be nice. Like, no, you should be having this conversation. You deserve to be treated with respect in your place of employment. You deserve to be paid well. You deserve to be paid for the time, energy and effort that you're putting in. But too many times we just don't feel confident to put our hands up and be like, hey, cool, maybe this isn't right. Or hey, cool, can we reassess this or change this? And we don't want to lean too much into gender here, but everyone knows women are far less likely to put their hand up when it comes to getting a promotion or having things allocated

at work in a bit more of a fairer way. So I think today's episode for me is more about empowering you guys to actually just ask the question, because at the end of the day, the worst thing they can say is no. 100%. V, let's talk through the most complained about things that Australian workers are recording. Oh, not like just she's on the money employees. Well, I mean, take note. Number one, unfair pay. Yep. Terrible. Number two, not enough feedback from managers. Interesting, but also I feel like that is incredibly valid. Yep. Number three, the office is too noisy. Really? Yeah. I'm surprised about that one too. I'm surprised about that one. Maybe that's people just being like, I don't want to return to the office. I want to stay at home. It's good. It's

too noisy there. Put that one up your sleeve for later. Number four, colleague complaints. About what? Not sure. I want more detail, G. This is just top line, baby. Right, sorry. Number five, IT issues. Oh my gosh, that's all I complain about. Yeah, that's 80% of my day. Number six, harassment or bullying. That shouldn't be something that we complain about. That should be something that's not happening. 100%. Number seven, changes in the workplace. People hate change? People really don't like change. Number eight, the workload. Very fair complaint. If you are being overworked, probably not that fair if you just wanted an early lunchtime. Agreed. Number nine, 24-7 demands. I feel like this was probably super prevalent during the pandemic when we were

online all the time and we were like, oh, I won't clock off yet because, you know, my laptop's here, I'm on the couch, et cetera. Number 10 is that the office is too hot or too cold. Oh my gosh, can relate right we were just talking about that before having that conversation literally in the studio but i want to just shout out a product that is going to change your life jumpers oh no go on um no do you want to try again um electric blankets in the office sorry we have electric throw rugs at all of our desks really yeah we plug them in and then we just snuggie snuggie. That's gorgeous. Jessica Ritchie brought this into the office and then I bought one and now I'm going to have to buy another one because Jasmine has stolen mine and then Charlotte was

envious and then you're going to need one and then Jess is probably going to need one and then Annalisa is probably going to want one. And I just feel like it's a good investment. You can have like a little snug blanket. You can have a heating pad if you're cold, pop it on your chair. Also heating pad, you could put your feet on it. God, no temperature complaints that she's on the money. No, there's a lot. There's a lot. You guys don't understand. As in it's freezing. yeah move on blankets okay so let's look at complaint number one v pay how do i know my worth in a job and where do i even start with that research oh i love this question i think it's really important to one know your worth but to know where to find your worth and it's an

entitled view to say i need a pay rise because i've been here for a while like to me tenure should not equal an increase in your remuneration if you have done nothing else in that job in that year. And that sounds really mean. I obviously believe in increasing your pay in line with CPI or indexation. And I think that that should increase each and every single year. But if we break down the job market, say your job is to lick stamps G and put them on an envelope. And that's just the entire job that you have. In one year, if you've performed that job and that job is worth, you know, maybe $80,000. That's a very well-paying stamp licking job, just so you know. But let's say it's worth $80,000. Why, if the crux of the job and the requirements of the job, if they haven't

changed, why should your pay be increased by like $5,000 or $10,000 each year just because you're good at licking stamps? I think that there should be some level of responsibility back on the employee to have either taken on further responsibilities or to be looking for another role if they feel like the role that they currently have doesn't remunerate them in line with the remuneration they want to find. I'm pretty cutthroat when it comes to that because I think that entitlement is a really big piece of it. But then if we look at it and go, all right, so Jay, you lick stamps. But then because you are really good at that and so efficient at that, you've been given all of these other responsibilities. You now do all of the

stapling all of the file work. You're now the receptionist as well. We've put a whole heap of responsibilities on you. That's a different story. That's not about tenure. That's about increased responsibility. And that's about you being remunerated in line with your increased responsibilities, not just going, oh, well, you know, your job description is the same. Job description doesn't mean anything if day to day you are doing something wildly different. So I'm pretty, I guess you could say I'm triggered right now because I just think that too many times people are like, oh, I don't understand why I haven't got a pay rise in like four years. I've been there for ages. And you go, I don't want to be mean. But what do you do in your job that is so

wildly different to the job you accepted four years ago? It is up to you to upskill and increase your capability or your ability to perform in that role so you can take on more responsibilities or change jobs if you don't think that's right. And if you go, all right, well, I still want this job. I do think it's about kind of going, all right, well, this job pays $80,000. Am I okay with that? Yes. Because that's what that role remunerates you for. Does that make sense? Like, I feel like obviously everyone's going to be quite heated on this topic and other people will say things like, oh my gosh, no, I deserve more because I've been there. And there's lots of different semantics that come into this conversation. But I think at the crux,

you need to understand that when we start talking about what is my worth in a role. Back to your actual question, Georgia King, if we're talking about where to look, obviously online is the best resource that we can find. I have absolutely no connection to Hayes, but the Hayes Salary Guide has been something that for maybe the last 10 years, I have relied upon and gone back to, to have a look at to see what on average people are being paid for this role and maybe what I should be asking. It's also a really well-researched document. Thousands of people contribute to this every single year. And it doesn't just say, okay, for someone in accounting, they should get X. It actually breaks it down by state and then it breaks it down further

into metro and regional, which I think is really powerful because obviously everything everywhere is different. And regionally, you're not going to be remunerated as highly as Metro because living costs are higher and there's lots of things that play into this, right? So, the Hayes Salary Guide is something I look to quite often when it comes to, you know, benchmarking. The other is looking at job ads online. So, go to seek.com.au and have a look at the job ads that are going. Ask people, you know, I'm not saying go and talk to a million recruiters, but you know, if a recruiter approaches you, what's the role worth? Actually, what's my role worth even if you're not interested in moving but I also would be really wary of

self-reporting platforms like Glassdoor you know how you go online you go what does an advertising executive get paid Glassdoor will come up yeah I think you need to be really careful of them because when do people self-report Georgia when they're angry yeah exactly so I want actual research. I don't just want something anecdotal that, you know, an angry employee of some company down the road wrote because they were frustrated at their job or didn't get paid enough or had a bad experience. I just think that that's a very, it's a very slippery slope of comparison, you know? That's so true. I've never even thought about that. Yeah. Like I feel like lots of people like, oh, Glassdoor's great. And I'm like, maybe in America it's a bit different, but here in

Australia, who goes on there and is like, do you know what? Been here for three years. I've been having such a good time. Love working for Bupa. I'm going to go put my review in now and it's going to be really well balanced. I'm going to be really transparent about what I'm being paid and what my bonuses are. Yeah, great. No one does that. No one does that. Okay. That's interesting to know. Stats Girl is entering the chat. Oh, hello, Stats Girl. That's what the young people say. So I've got two for you. No, no one says that. It's just us. Okay. A survey by salary.com revealed that only 37% of people always negotiate their salaries. What? While an astonishing 18% never do. Nah, negotiating's fun. I think we should do it. It's scary. Yeah, it's scary,

but you've got to practice it. Yeah. And negotiating is, regardless of what situation you are in in life, negotiating, it's not just some argument that you're having. It's asking to be treated fairly. And in any circumstance, whether that is financial or life or in a relationship, you need to be able to negotiate to make sure that you're always in a non-compromising position. That's true. Learn to negotiate, my friends. And perhaps learning how to be more assertive will help us do that, which we will get to later on in the show. Okay, so let's move on to the next stat here, V. It's a famous study done by Linda Babcock for her book, Women Don't Ask. and it revealed that only about 7% of women attempted to negotiate their first salary,

while 57% of men did. Sorry, I had to read that twice. Blew me off my feet. This stat you found on the internet, G. Blew you off your feet when you had to read it aloud. So shoot me. So shoot me. I forgot. It's okay. I laugh at my own jokes. It's fine. So of those people who negotiated, they were able to increase their salary by over 7%. percent. That's so much money. Honestly, it frustrates me that, you know, let's break it down for a hot second. Gee, why don't they negotiate? Obviously there's a million reasons, but what do you think the number one reason women don't negotiate is? Because they don't want conflict and they just think that they're lucky to be there, I would say. Yeah, because

they're just happy to accept the status quo. And usually we're happy to accept the status quo because we don't have the confidence or the education to question it right like status quo exists because you know you've fallen into the average and you're like oh this must be good everyone around me is fine it's kind of like being in a fish tank when the ocean exists but like all the other fish they're fine yeah they're happy we're not fish tank kind of gals i'm also not a surfer so i'm not sure where i'm going with this you did stat scale so i'm gonna throw in math scale here, a quick math scale. So if you're on $100,000 and your co-worker negotiated their salary, they're on now $107,000 a year. You're still on your 100 grand a year, obviously assuming that

you're treated identically from then on with the same salary rises and the same promotions. You're going to have to work eight years longer, G, than your fellow employee to be as wealthy as them at retirement. It's like, do you remember that old ad for Super where they were on the excavators? yeah yeah yeah same super balance it's same yeah but like not same outcome yeah nailed it that's what negotiation does to you also check your super very important a hot tip there I just think V as a woman I would never in a job interview question the salary I just wouldn't do it because well I would have a fear that they would choose someone else over me if I brought that up Really? 100%. I want someone who's assertive and someone who, you know, has nails and knows

their worth. Like, I'm just going to throw you under a bus here. You have personally negotiated your salary with me before, and I have so much respect for it. Oh, thanks, mate. And I would hope that, you know, the conversation was met that way. Obviously, we do do salary increases, but I always say to my team, please come to me to negotiate your salary because I don't know what I'm doing, but I really want to think that I have made a number of tiny nightmares for some future employer. Like I want to set you all up to make someone else really mad in the future. So all of you, everyone on the She's On The Money and Zella team has always had to negotiate for their pay rise, even if I thought you completely, completely deserved it. Really? Absolutely. Ask Jess. I did

the same thing to her. I was like, all right, talk to me about this. I want to give you X amount as an income moving forward. You're going to have to tell me why I'm doing that. Wow. Because I don't want someone coming in and may go, hey, G, just so you know, your new salary is this, you've been here for a year and you go, okay. And I also don't think it has the same power, you know, as an employer, which this is probably really unhelpful for everybody who is an employee at the moment, But I don't think it has the same power as an employer to be like, hey, G, just so you know, I really appreciate the time, the energy, the effort that you've been putting in over the last couple of years to she's on the money.

Therefore, you're going to get this because you're going to walk out and go, OK, no problems. Yeah. But if I go, G, what did you do? Why do you get this? You go, oh, so I don't know. But I want you to think of those things yourself and kind of make you see that value so that hopefully in the future when you do have a future employer, God forbid that ever actually happens, you go, hold on, hold on. No, I did all this stuff and I know that should be remunerated.

I know that's the way this works. But back to employee mode for a hot second, there are so many tips for this and so many things that we need to reframe because I think a lot of you are going to go, oh V, these tips, they're all about audacity and having audacity and coming in to a meeting with more confidence than I have. No, it's not. It's actually about knowing your worth and knowing what you are worth and how to value that and how to see that. And it's not actually about being audacious. It's actually just about asking for the same thing. And it's also about being respected. Because to be honest, if any employee comes to any employer and says, this is what I'm doing. This is how I'm doing it. This is my research. This is what my comparison

in is, should that not be respected? Like, that's pretty cool. I really like that. So let's get into some hot tips. Number one, evidence, research. Pretend it's like a murder. We are going to find as much evidence as we... Pretend it's like a murder. We're trying to slay it, right? Okay. Not literally. I'm going to back down. We're not a crime podcast. But maybe one day. We could be. It's my dream. It's my dream to be she's on the crime. I think that would work. But evidence and research. Keep a folder in your email, and I've told you guys this before, but keep a folder on your computer with good feedback that people give you along the way. It is so hard if you're like, oh my gosh, I'm having a meeting with my boss on Friday. I'm just going to go find all my stuff.

No. Over the year, if someone sends a really nice email, gee, great work. Really appreciate you. copy, paste straight into the acknowledgements folder. One, it's really good for negotiating salary and having chats with your boss. Two, if you're having a little bit of a flat day, a little bit of self-doubt, go to your little self-doubt folder and read through all of the cool things people have said about you. 10 out of 10 can make you feel better because I have tried this. That's a great idea. You're welcome. Next is pick the top of the range. Just go straight to the top. You can always negotiate down from there. So go straight to the top after researching your market value. It might be tempting to pick the middle because you go, all right, so I've done

this research and this job is between $80,000 and $100,000. Look, do you know what? I'm just going to tell them that I want $90,000. You want $90,000? Say you want $100,000. Negotiate them down to there and then walk out and buy yourself a note latte and be like, I got them. Instead of going for that middle ground. I think that is really important. Like give your boss room to negotiate down because if you're in the mood for negotiation, I am absolutely certain that your boss is too. Next, pick an exact number. Okay. It's like putting in an offer on a house. They'll think you've done so much more work if you pick a specific number, like $94,750 is what I would expect for this role they'll be like oh my god what has she done she must have done some super

extensive research into the market value of her role interesting instead of 95 000 so that the point of that is that it makes it look like you've done your research yeah it makes you look way smarter interesting because you're precise well wouldn't it be a bit like wise v asking for a ninety four thousand seven hundred and fifty dollar salary she must have her finger on the pulse. There must be some level of research there. It's not just something she heard on a podcast one time because people wouldn't do that, would they, G? Never. Next. This one's hard. This one's really hard. You need to be willing to walk away. Obviously, this then extends because this is like now becoming a money slash life, you know, advice podcast, but you need to be willing to walk away.

So you need to come up with a walkaway point, a final offer that's so low that you have to just say, do you know what? I'm worth more than that. And unfortunately, the remuneration of that role doesn't meet my expectations and I'll have to look elsewhere for employment. Like I know that that is really hard, especially because sometimes the job market is really tough, but you need to know your worth. So pick that number. It could be based on your personal financial needs. It could be based on market value or simply just what number you need to feel is worth taking that job. Some people might be like oh my gosh I'm nearly 30 I want to earn 80 grand or I want to earn 90 grand or 100 grand and that's your number for the next role you have well babe that's your number and I think that

we really need to stick to that walking away from an offer is never ever ever easy but I think it's really important to know when to do it and also how powerful it can be to just say no yeah how often do you just go I negotiated and I didn't get what I want so I compromised and now I'm unhappy now I'm unhappy like that's not a good thing yeah interesting next point okay make sure you are ready you need to be prepared we are scouts scouts are always prepared I love you today that was brilliant did you do scout yeah I was a scout Kayla we'll do our best we'll do our best we'll do our best you guys as well yeah oh my gosh do you know alex was a scout so we were nerds but like do you know what takes this nerd to the next level go on wasn't just a

scout i was also a venturer so when all the cool kids left scouts because they realized it sucked i was there going i'm still committed what i love this why did our parents make us do that they didn't. It was a choice. It was me, but you've got to make sure you're ready. So before you ask for a raise or a new badge, you're going to want to ask yourself a few questions. Have you been at your job for a year yet? Obviously, as I said, tenure is not important, but if you're asking after three months, you are not off probation yet, my friend. Have you taken on any new responsibilities since you got hired? Have you been exceeding expectations, not just meeting them? But do you know what's really frustrating? When you go to a job interview and you're like, well,

what would it take to meet the expectations? And they say something like, we want you to always exceed expectations. So if I exceed expectations, am I actually just meeting the expectation that you just set? In which case, how do I actually exceed expectations and get a pay rise? How does that work? True. How do you set the expectation to exceed the expectation? The limit does not exist. Yeah, exactly. It's really rude. So understand that meeting your expectations means you are going to be able to get the salary that you signed up for. Exceeding your expectations and going above and beyond and doing more than what you have been called to do is really important when asking for a salary increase. The answer to all of those questions, TLDR, needs to be yes

before you actually start negotiating a salary, G King. I am sorry. Next, time it right. Timing always has to be right. Most people wait until kind of like performance review season. I know a lot of people who are really guilty of this to ask for a salary adjustment. They might be in a position where they have a job where they're like, oh no, they don't review salaries until July. I need to fit into this like status quo of how this works. But by that time, your boss has probably already decided what raises people are going to have by July. He's already probably put it in his head or her head that, all right, well, G King's been doing pretty well. I'll probably give her a high rise and completely forgets Victoria because they haven't been able to see what you've been

achieving. So instead, we're not saying march in and be like, hey, I know salary reviews are only in July. Be like, I want to talk about my salary. I know reviews are coming up in July. I want to put on the table what I've done, but also I want to ask what I need to do to get to this next level. I want to talk to you about how this is going to work. So start talking to your boss about getting a raise, I would say a minimum of three to four months before you're actually going to get it or before that budget is allocated. The next is a bit of mindfulness, my friend. Practice and center your thoughts is what is written down here. And I think that that is actually really important. Practice your pitch on a family member or just in the mirror because sometimes it can be

kind of intimidating. Also, I've never practiced anything in the mirror because I'm like, wow, do I really look like that? Do my eyebrows move like that? So if it works for you, you do you, boo. But sometimes I just sit in bed with my notes and like read it aloud and think about how I sound. Much less intimidating. From the comfort of the bed. You also can't get distracted with pimples if you can't see your face. True. Yeah, really important. But center yourself, try and practice it because this is going to be a really emotional conversation for you, but it's not going to be an emotional conversation for your boss. So don't go in and be like, I'm so nervous. This is going to be such a hard conversation. That's on you. And I think we

need to remember that because too often we get so worked up. Your boss is your boss. It's their job to pragmatically assess your capabilities and your performance. In fact, that's in their job description to do this. You're going in there helping them do their job. I mean, probably don't do it in a condescending way, but at the end of the day, a boss should welcome conversations like this because a high performing employee makes them look good. A high performing employee that deserves a raise is definitely an employee that I want to have on my team. 100%. Lean out away from your emotions. And if that means you need to practice it and change your pitch and then lean into your evidence and the research that you've done so that you can really rely on that instead

of going, but I deserve it. That is not a conversation that anyone should be having when it comes to salary. Quote, I deserve it because is not the answer. The answer is I deserve it because I've been going above and beyond in my role. I deserve it because I've been putting extra time, energy and effort into this or I deserve it because I achieved these sales instead of these sales. Like there are so many things that you can say, but just because you feel like you deserve it, that I need to use. Next. That makes sense. Yep. Gee, what day of the week do you pick? How do you know when to do it? Do you, like, come in bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on a Monday morning

or do you wait for 4 p.m. on Friday so that you can just slink away if you're feeling a little bit awkward? It can't be either. Can't be either of those. And I want to strike out Tuesday because that's the worst day of the week. It is the worst day of the week. We all agree. Except for the tacos.

That's pretty good on Tuesdays. Taco Tuesdays, you're right. That's pretty good. I take it back. Hump Day. It's called Hump Day. That's immediately written off. So what we're going to do is pick Thursdays.

Sure. We tend to start the week, and our bosses start the week, a little bit more hard-nosed and even a bit disagreeable, but we become a little bit more flexible and a little bit more accommodating as the week wears on. Quote from some research online, Thursdays and Fridays find us most open to negotiation and compromise because we just want to finish our work before the week is out. And from my perspective, approaching your boss for something really important on a Friday is kind of rude because they're probably trying to just get everything off their plate that they didn't do earlier in the week like I do. Talk to me on a Thursday, Jay. Brilliant. Noted. Let's

take a little break here, V, but we'll be back on the other side to chat about communication techniques and also how to be assertive. I love it. Let's go. Welcome back. Thank you for having me. Let's start to talk about how we can be more assertive. There are actually three C's you need to remember here when wanting to communicate assertively. The first is confidence. You believe in your ability to handle a situation. The second is clear. The message you have is clear and it's easy to understand. The third is controlled. You deliver information in a calm and controlled manner. That is a much more succinct and much clearer way to actually articulate everything I said in the first half of this episode. Confidence, clear, controlled. So if you've

already listened, just fast forward that. Yeah, sorry about that. Let's break them down though, V. Talk me through them in more depth. So, Jay, you've just asked me what assertive tips I have. Why ever would you ask me? I know you're the least assertive person I've ever met in my life. Insane, I can't believe it. But here's what I have heard is good if you would like to be more assertive. So, first things first, I want you to deeply value yourself and your own rights. To be more assertive, you actually need to gain a really good understanding of who you are and what you want for yourself, as well as having a strong belief in your actual inherent value and your value to an organization and a team. Because it is massive, I promise they wouldn't

have advertised the role, G, if they didn't need you in the first place. I need you to remember that while self-confidence is a very important aspect of assertiveness, make sure that it doesn't develop into like a sense of self-importance. You know how sometimes there are people that are just confident. And then there are people that are cocky. We don't want to be cocky. We just want to be confident. And your rights, thoughts, feelings, needs, and desires are just as important as everybody else's, but not more important than everybody else's. But I think one thing that we all can agree on is that women tend to think that our rights are not as important as everybody else's. So let's just cut that out here and now. The next is voice your needs and wants

confidently. It feels like a hard thing to do, but I promise when you do it, the confidence it gives you back is so, so powerful. The next is acknowledging, unfortunately, Georgia King, that you can't control other people's behavior and that their behavior actually has nothing to do with you. Their behavior is a reflection of their experiences, their thoughts, their feelings, none of which have anything to do with you. The next is express yourself in a positive way. it's really important to say what's on your mind even when you have a difficult or negative issue to deal with but you need to do it really constructively and sensitively something that good old eric divine my dad has always said he says this thing that i have always carried and

if you follow me on instagram you've already heard this before because i've said it a million times but it's honesty tempered with mercy like be honest but did you really need to be honest it's like kind of being kind like yeah you're right that was the truth but if the truth is really going to hurt someone we're not going to lie but we might not say everything that is on our mind yeah right good for me good on your dad honesty tempered with mercy i feel like has been drilled into me since i was tiny the next is be open to criticism and complaints it's hard it's really hard the last thing you want is someone being like hey v so you're not actually as good at the job that you've been doing as you thought you were. I know you have a podcast, but you're

just not that good at it. But the only way I can get better at that thing is if somebody tells me and if someone gives me constructive criticism. The important thing here, though, is understanding the difference between constructive criticism and someone just giving you criticism. Can you walk away and change that? Can you actually do something about it? It's kind of a give and take. I hate the idea that people are like, oh, but you have to be open to criticism. Okay, well, thank you person on the internet, but you telling me that I have an ugly nose is not going to help me in any way, shape or form. But you telling me that the tone of voice that I use is not as constructive and that maybe using a different one could be a little bit better for me, that's constructive criticism.

At the end of the day, people should only be telling you things that you can actually change. And if they're telling you something that you can't change or shouldn't have to change about yourself, they need to get straight in the bin, G-King. 100%. Just jump right in there. Jump right in there. Next one, before I give it back to you for some more questions, is just learn to say no.

Much harder done than said. Saying no is so powerful, but practice it on small things before you actually practice it on the big things. Don't just jump straight into saying no to your boss about a really big project they need you to take on. Start with colleagues. start with friends start with family saying no is not actually about you saying no you don't want to help them but rather no I actually have my priorities in a different area I have a friend

and at her workplace she's like the best in the business at what she does and it was working on this new tv show and it's late on a Saturday night and she was like no I don't want to do it I have my standards I've done it for years and years and I just don't want to do it I don't want to take that on at this point thank you though but they were like no we really need you to do it she ended up negotiating a higher rate to make it worthwhile for her but she wouldn't have done it without that but still I still don't think she's very happy I don't know thank you for that inspirational story it just came to mind it's really important right you need to find that balance of like I don't want to do that thing and I've actually had this conversation in the business bible

community with a lot of people where they're like, I don't want to do that thing, but I'm really good at that thing. So lots of clients come to me to do that thing, which means that you need to charge more so that you're more than happy to do that thing, right? Whereas if I said to you, G, for 50 bucks, would you do A, B, C, and D? And you'd be like, um, no. So you need to sit down and go, all right, people want from me this, obviously, if you're still willing to give it, what would I charge? That means that that trade off of my time or my energy or my effort and me doing something that I am not as happy to do but like what's my number maybe you go do you know what that's a premium that's actually $500 fee and I might turn around and go gee like other

people are doing it for 100 and you go okay no problems get them if you want me it's 500 yeah and if someone is then willing to pay you for that service you go great I made 500 bucks but I think a lot of people just pander to the normal, pander to, well, industry rate is this. And creatives are especially bad at that. They'll be like, oh, well, industry average is, you know, 80 bucks an hour or 90 bucks an hour or whatever it is. I don't know off the top of my head. So if that's an offensive rate, I do apologize. But if you are 90 bucks an hour on average across the board, but you're like, well, I don't want to do that thing or that thing's impacting my lifestyle or my family time or, you know, I just don't want to do it. You don't need a good reason.

My rate's 200. Don't feel bad about that because there'll be two trade-offs, right? You'll either get less work, which is what you wanted in the first place because you didn't want to do the work, or you just get a whole heap of really well-paid work and you really need to put your rate up again, my friend. This episode is blowing my mind. So, V, let's talk about some specific quick assertive communication techniques. Lay them on me because I really need to hear them, I think. You reckon? Am I just like prepping you to go, hey V, at the end of this, I've tripled my rate. Absolutely. I can't afford you. Bye. The first thing you need to do is put yourself in the driver's seat. It's really unproductive if you're using statements like,

Georgia, you always tell me that I'm the worst. Instead, Georgia, I feel sometimes when we communicate that you don't appreciate me. They're such different statements and you need to actually put yourself in the driver's seat. So it's I would like, I need, or I feel to convey basic assertions to get your point across firmly. Too many times do I see people trying to shift the, not the blame, but the responsibility, I suppose, onto someone else and be like,

well, you asked me to do all of these extra tasks and I should be remunerated for them. I'm happy to take on these extra tasks if I'm appropriately remunerated for them. Those are two very different statements shifting control from one party to another. If you're saying you always make me versus I take it on happily, those are two very different things and we need to get on the same page about that. So we use I statements now moving forward exclusively. The next is empathy. So trying to recognize and understand how the other person actually views the situation. This can be really hard because sometimes you don't actually have a clear understanding of what your colleagues are performing like or conversations that are

happening behind closed doors. But empathy is really, really important. You need to take the other person's point of view into consideration to express what you then need from them. Because if you know that that person, your manager, somehow had their budget completely stripped from them, they, you know, have just had to let go a few new employees, take on a whole heap of other employees, it doesn't mean that your situation is not valid. It goes back to what we're saying in the first part of this episode, you need to pick your timing right. So yes, you need to do it three or four months before you actually want that pay rise, but you need to pick the right time. And if you're a boss, maybe their partner is about to have a baby. Maybe it's just not the

right time. Maybe you know that they went to a funeral a week ago. Just make sure that you're taking into consideration everything that you know might be going on in their world so that you're not picking a time where they go, gee, I just don't have time for this because that doesn't serve you at all. The next is escalation. So if your first attempts at asserting yourself have not been successful, then you might need to actually escalate the matter further. This means becoming a little bit firmer, though still polite and still always respectful. You may not still get what you want in the end, unfortunately. And if this is the case, you might need to have a little talk to yourself and take some further action by setting up a

formal meeting to talk about the problem or escalating your concerns to HR or your boss or G, actually having a little bit of a think about whether that job is serving you any further. I know that this sounds really flippant and too many people will say that this is an entitled point of view, but I don't believe tenure equals loyalty. I think if a job is not serving you, is not treating you with respect, it doesn't matter if you've been there 15 years, you need to drop it like a hot cake and move on to a place that does respect you. Well, as we saw in the Panty D, they will drop you like a hot cake. So yeah, you got to be prepared to give it back. It's true.

Two-way street. Two-way street. Catcher. the next is ask for more time sometimes it's best not to say anything straight away you might be too emotional or you might not know what it is that you actually want yet if this is the case just be honest and tell the person that you need a few minutes to compose your thoughts I don't think that's a bad thing too often we speak because we're trying to fill a void you know when a lulling conversation happens and people go so you don't need to do the so you don't need to do the so just sit there and use your time efficiently to actually think about what you want and need

and respectfully answer. The same thing I think came up in our interview episode where we talked about how to interview well and what that actually meant. Because interviewing can be really hard and sometimes they ask a question and you want to reply really quickly because you don't want to seem incompetent. But sometimes taking that second and going, hmm, let me have a think about that for a second. Yeah, so G, the way I would have approached that situation can sound so much more intelligent and you actually put yourself in a better position to answer that question. Yeah. 10 out of 10. Do that. Also, change your verbs. Try using verbs that are a bit more definite

and emphatic when you communicate. This is going to help you send a clear message and avoid sugar coating the message, which can actually lead to people being confused about what you actually want from them. So to do this, use verbs like will instead of could, want instead of need, or choose instead of have to. The next thing, G, this is just an across the board memo for everyone who writes emails. Next time you write an email, before you send it, you're just going to go, oh, V said I had to look at something. And then you're going to look for the word just, and you're going to backspace the word just because I guarantee you it will make you look more assertive and more clear on what you want. Too many times we go, just popping in here to

check up on the status of this meeting or the status of this project. No, no, no. It's actually my job to check up on the status. Like just downplays the job that you do. Look at my face. My face is like in pain because I'm just attacking you. Sorry. Well, if you read any email I've ever written, it's like full of exclamation marks, not really any smiley faces, but sometimes smiley faces you always say me smileys well i mean i feel like it's almost it's us pandering to what we think the other person is going to react like but you never see men do it do you why would they do that because i don't need to no and we don't know you don't need to either but okay so i feel like sometimes i write emails because i want to come across as likable i'm asking you to do this

pain in the ass thing but please still like me exclamation mark instead you wouldn't though because that person is going to like you as a human regardless g like it's one of those things that we shouldn't have to downplay our responsibilities or our authority just because we're sending an email and we want to be liked at the end of the day if someone chooses not to like you that's on them not on you their behavior their outcome their action actually has nothing to do with you and a dodgy Dita Von Teese quote you could be like the ripest fuzziest peach in the entire world and there's still going to be someone who doesn't like peaches yeah that's good Jessica Ricci's favorite fruit is peaches though so it wouldn't be her she would love you very delicious

but I think it's really important to remember that you can't be everything to everybody and you actually owe it to yourself to respect yourself enough to not downplay the needs that you have you're not just doing anything do you think it's a bad thing then to be kind of cutesy and nice in emails? No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Have you seen any of the emails I sent? Not recently. No, no, no. We just text. But it's one of those things where like mine always says warmest regards. There is a lot in my email that conventionally you would say, oh, that's a bit fluffy. You don't need it. But if I am asking for something from someone, just is not a word I would put in there. If I'm having a work transaction and I'm asking for something that is not from my work

bestie, I would ask Jess something like, oh, just wondering where that is because that's actually my term of phrase, right? That's something I would say. But if I'm trying to be assertive, if I'm trying to justify what I want in a negotiation, especially about my salary, G, just isn't a word we use. I don't want to just have a quick chat to you about my salary. I want your time. I want your energy and I want your attention on me so that I can negotiate my salary. It's not just a quick minute. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So I always say that I don't want to be a broken record, but gee, you do want to be a broken record because for instance, if you can't take on any more work, you need to be really direct and just say, I can't take on any more

projects right now. If people still don't get the message, then restate your message using the same language. And I wouldn't relent. I wouldn't change that. I would just say, hey, as I said, unfortunately, I don't have the capacity to take on any more projects. Also, again, another side note for the creatives that are listening here who often get asked to do free work the response to that that we have at she's on the money is thank you so much for taking the time to consider me unfortunately i don't have the capacity to take on unpaid work at this point in time brilliant no thanks bye i don't have the capacity pay to play yeah brilliant and that's still a really nice way of communicating it v let's move our focus now towards our rights and how we're actually protected

as employees in Australia. We are very lucky. What can we do if we're experiencing discrimination or unfair treatment in the workplace? Fair Work Act, which if your employer did their job, when you started that job, you would have been given a Fair Work Act info statement, an info sheet that would have come along in your employment package. So you hopefully should already know about it. Arguably, it is the most important piece of employment law that exists in Australia. Here in Australia, as we probably should already know, it is completely unlawful to discriminate based on a number of protected attributes like age, disability, race, sex, intersex status, gender identity and sexual orientation in certain areas of public life,

including education and employment. Employers actually have an obligation to comply with all aspects of Australian employment law to ensure that employees can work comfortably in a safe and secure environment that is free from bullying, discrimination and harassment. However, the Fair Work Act 2009 is not the only piece of workplace relations legislation, in Australia, as it is supplemented by other federal, state and territory laws. So I can't just give advice here because it changes for absolutely every state and territory, nor does all of this apply to each and every single workplace here in Australia. So for example, Western Australia actually maintains its own state-based workplace relations system

that partially covers the private sector of that state. It's also important to know that workplace relation systems covers your business and employees to determine what legislation is actually going to apply. So it can be quite confusing, but the best thing you can do if you're in a bit of a pickle is head to the Fair Work website. Super straightforward and very easy to navigate through, but you can also call them if you want to have a chat with them. They are super friendly, I promise. I have called it a couple of times, even as an employer, to be like, what does this mean? How does this work? What's going on here? So ask questions. It's free. And if they can't help you, they'll let you know. That's good to know because I feel like it kind

of sounds quite daunting. So it's nice to hear that they're friendly. It's not. Think about it. The type of people that are going to answer the phone, it's not the CEO. It's like renegotiating a phone contract. If you call Optus or Telstra and say, hey, I want a better deal, the person on the end of the phone, they're going to get you. They're probably just like you. Exactly right. We are going to link in our show notes to the Attorney General's Department with really good info about Australian anti-discrimination law. So check that out, guys, if you are interested in more on that subject. V, whenever there are stories in the news about workplace conflict or the like, you hear one name time and time again. That is the Fair Work Commission.

Saucy. What exactly do they do? They're scary. They're big and scary and very official, G King. But they're actually not. they exist to protect you. The Fair Work Commission are actually Australia's National Workplace Relations Tribunal, as I've written down. They set the minimum wages for Australia and they help with issues in the workplace. They create things like awards and approve

enterprise agreements and help with disputes that happen in workplaces. As an independent tribunal, they can't give you legal advice, but they can help you with a few things. And I've listed them down, so listen carefully. The first is claims about dismissal. If you feel like you might have been unfairly dismissed, you can ask them about that. Disputes about bullying or discrimination, you can talk to them about other rights under quote general protections. You can talk to them about agreements and the bargaining process. You can talk to them about applications to make or change awards, the decisions the commission has made and how to submit a claim. They are very, very helpful and we will as always link them in our show notes so you can reach out

if you need. This whole episode V has been very much geared towards employees. I mean I slipped a few small biz things in there, a few creative hot tips. Well, we do know that many of us within the She's On The Money community are actually boss babes. I'm so sorry. No, I'm not taking that out. Boss babes, according to G King. VD, to wrap it up, do you have any tips for bosses, boss babes? No, no boss babes. We don't call ourselves boss babes. No, because that's patronizing. Yeah, because I feel like it diminishes the impact that we have. Also, you don't just have a small business. You have a business. Anyway, the word just, we're going to delete it this week. Put it in the bin. Put it in the bin. Garbage, fire it up. But I would definitely listen to

the Business Bible podcast because it turns out I have an entire podcast that is for small business owners. And then I would also try hard to take into account all of those tips because all of those tips apply to you negotiating with clients, to you negotiating with contracts that you might have to sign. And I promise you, your time is worth so much more than what you're charging for it. And if you've been looking for a sign and you haven't done it yet and you haven't put your prices up and you've been thinking about it, now's the time. Now's the time. And then you're going to message me and you're going to tell me that's what you did. I'm going to be wildly proud of you. Remember at the top, we mentioned the great upgrade. I do. Super interested in this.

Can we just finish off today by talking a little bit more about that? Yes, G, we did talk about the great upgrade. And I think that this is a really good call to action for all of the actual bosses out there who, you might be a people leader, you might be someone who manages other people, you might be a small business owner. But I think the biggest call to action here is that employees are now expecting us to do what we said we were going to do. We need to treat people with respect. We need to give them the time, energy, effort, and space that they deserve to grow. They deserve to have their employment contracts reviewed. They deserve to talk about salary increases. And to be honest, as much as I talk about you asking to renegotiate your salary,

your employer should be coming to you on a regular basis if they know you're putting more time, energy, and effort into a job and going, hey, gee, let's talk about that. It is really important. So given leadership has such a direct impact on retention, I think it would be very, very intelligent to focus more on it. What is expected from leaders now in 2022 is so much, one, greater, but two, so much different from what it used to be. I think we used to think that our managers came in, allocated tasks, and now it is so much more than that. Even though it is still super important to have strategic perspective and I guess financial acumen to be a good leader, the last two years have really brought to the forefront the importance of an

ability to connect and listen to your employees. Like, I feel like that should have been the bare minimum from the start, but unfortunately it wasn't. Compassionate leadership has finally gained a really prominent seat at the table and I am so here for it, G. And I can't wait to see how this pans out. V, I reckon that's probably the perfect place to leave it today. I hope everyone's feeling as empowered and inspired as I am

sitting over here across from you. Thank you for the chat, mate. No problem. Nothing else to add? No, just stop saying just. All righty, guys. Please remember that the advice shared on She's On The Money

is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision.

And we promise Victoria Devine is an authorised representative of In Focus Securities Australia, Proprietary Limited, ABN 47097797049, AFSL 236523. We'll see you on Friday, guys. See you.