She's On The Money - How To Become Your Own Rich BFF With Vivian Tu

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

We're so excited to bring you another episode from NYC, with the incredible Vivian Tu! You may known Vivian from Your Rich BFF, as the Wall St girly, or even from being featured in the 2023 Forbes 30 Under 30! Vivian shares her story from working at Wall Street, to Buzzfeed, to where she is now. She'll gives her tips on how to STRIIP (it's nothing dirty we promise), amd how you can become your own rich BFF! The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kurni, Walpuree and Awadjuri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjuri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. hello and welcome to she's on the money the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My friends, this is an extra exciting episode because I am joined by our very first and a very special co-host, and I have been so, so excited to bring her on for you guys. Vivian Tu is a Wall Street girlie who is now known as your rich BFF. Vivian learned the finance basics from her old work on Wall Street, but didn't like how finance content was dry, boring, and targeted to old rich men. Relatable. She began creating her own content to create fun and easy to understand resources. Vivian is now, get this, the CEO and founder of Your Rich BFF,

which, no biggie, but like you were named as Forbes 30 under 30 in 2023 and also named in 2022 as one of Forbes top creators. If that wasn't enough to keep you busy, you've gone ahead and written a whole damn book, my friend. Your book, Rich AF, The Winning Money Mindset That Will Change Your Life, is hitting stores officially on the 26th of December. I don't even think we need to do a whole podcast. I'm just like ridiculously impressed from that. But welcome to She's On The Money, my friend. Thank you so much for having me. That was such like a generous introduction. I feel like... I'm just so excited to share you with my community. I just, I know how much they love the content that you create and I think that they're just going to be so

excited when this drops that I just I genuinely am like this is a slay I can't wait to chat with them oh my gosh I want to know Vivian I'm so excited but tell me a little bit more about you and your story obviously you're rich bff what a great tagline but who are you what do you do how do you do it? Yeah. So I am very much a happy accident, I would say. I was the only daughter to Chinese immigrant parents. They must be so proud. I didn't even tell them about Your Rich BFF until I was eight months in and starting to monetize because I was like, they're not going to be cool with this. So there's a founder in Australia, Jane Tu. Do you know Jane? Is she the one? Oh my gosh, she's exactly the same. Yeah, she is a slay as well,

but she hid it from her parents. She used to pretend to go to work when she was working on a startup? Yeah. You too, two peas in a pod. You know, I just think there's like a little bit of like a cultural expectation that you do well in school, you become a lawyer, doctor, engineer. It's kind of like you pick one of the three and that's your life. But I was a big troublemaker growing up. I was a little bit of a chatterbox, could never really fit into that square. But I was a really good student. I ended up going to the University of Chicago, very much known to be a feeder school for Wall Street, got the internship, got the job. And I thought I'd made it. A hundred percent.

I was kind of just like, fuck it, we're here. But I thought I had made it. I was like, as long as I can stay at this job and do well, like, I'm going to be rich. I'm going to have the life I wanted. Go me. Slave. Until I got there. And I was so lucky. My very first manager was a woman. She was the only other woman. She was the only other Asian person. And everybody else we worked with was like white guys. old white guys mediocre middle-aged white guys

is what I like to call them yes correct so much audacity hey nobody is more confident where do they get it from we say this in my team all the time when we're like a little bit flat we're like channel your inner

mediocre middle-aged white man and if he would do it you can too yeah literally exactly and for the first year and a half it was great I was learning so much I was you know making more money than I'd ever made in my entire life

and then came the beginning of the end the head of our desk actually got let go and how it works generally on Wall Street is when the head of the desk gets let go, all of the people that they hired or they were close with, the new guy will act them too. Yeah, of course.

It's same on the Australian Stock Exchange. Like if your desk is gone, your desk is gone and they want their own team, right? They just want a clean house and they want all of the people that they trust, which in theory, you go, that makes sense. But in your shoes, that would be terrifying.

Terrible. Exactly. So this team that, like, hired me, nurtured me, liked me, treated me well, suddenly 50% of the team was different. And it's a bunch of new people that I'm like, damn, now I've got to, like, earn my stripes. I have to impress people all over again. And my new head of the desk found out that I had a little bit more Excel knowledge because I had spent a summer in commercial banking before going to trading. He was like, hey, like, do you want to come work for my BFF? He's starting.

he's going to be you know doing some really cool stuff cool projects I ended up going to work for this guy leaving my manager my mentor the only person who I was like mama like take care of me your safety net yeah I was like a baby bird I was like just teach me everything like feed me and this new guy sucked he was such a d-bag and he would say things like you're too girly to work here I'm sorry what right as if like that's something that I could change about myself or is even a negative is that an insult like girly like of course I've been a woman my entire life like what you know this is how I identify this is how I speak you know if I get my nails done they're gonna click clack on the keyboard there's nothing and also that makes me less qualified but

even like qualification aside like I'm a competent person that's why I'm here sit down sir right exactly but it really came to a head when one day I came into the office and I was wearing a long cardigan. And he looked at me and he touched his hands together and he bowed and he goes, ooh, is that a kimono? Oh, see you later, you racist prick. Yeah. So I was like... Are you joking? No. Do you think that in that moment he knew what he was doing or he actually thought he was funny? I genuinely think he thought he was funny. Oh my God. Like I have like secondhand embarrassment for him. Like I would, oh, I would have been sick in that moment. And I was. Like, you know that sensation where like your face just starts to get hot that was me for good reason yeah

and so I go and I tell my initial mentor I'm like I'm quitting today good and she goes don't be an idiot you don't have another job lined up I don't need one because I don't need this one yeah and she goes you know you're gonna have a gap on your resume it's gonna be hard to get a job just like whatever happened we'll talk about it after work but like just tough it out today and we'll talk And so I tell her what happens. She's like, okay, I'll help you look for something different. And I'm like, great, okay. At least I have this woman on my side.

Like, I can handle this. Yes. So I'm sitting it out, gritting my teeth through the rest of this job. But I end up interviewing with my first manager's best friend. And lo and behold, through an interview process, her best friend becomes my first manager at my second job. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. The stars have aligned.

The stars really did align. and I ended up going to BuzzFeed and it was a huge, huge. So cool. Not cool. No, but like the idea that you got to work at BuzzFeed sounds. Like you, I'm from Australia, my friend. Yeah. Like I am small fry.

Like I might have a big podcast, but like I have a small brain. Like everybody thought it was so cool, except it wasn't cool for the people that matter. Yeah, of course. My parents were so disappointed. they were like you know you go to this type of school to get this type of job we've spent so much money and now what are you going to do i'm going to go like write quizzes for a living and i'm like that's not even the team that i'm working on but okay even if i was like don't you want me

to be happy and i think that was a really painful experience because you don't want to let the people around you down but you also want to follow what you know you've obviously had these beautiful experiences with these people and you're like i can see a future here it might not know exactly what it is but like I can see the opportunity like and I want you to see that for me too yeah and they didn't I'm so sorry that was the case that honestly that sucks I want to be like guys come on I know and it wasn't until I want to say I was like two years in at BuzzFeed when I started making way more money than I did ever how do you like me now Wall Street suddenly my mom was like wow this job's really wonderful that you get to wear ripped jeans to

work and like you work a nine to five and then like come home and like you have time to hang out with your fiance or like my now fiance at the time boyfriend but like she was like congrats thank you thank you thank you but I had this happy work-life balance and while I'm at BuzzFeed I make all these new friends right I feel very lucky I end up really loving a lot of my colleagues we become friends outside of work love and they're like hey you worked on Wall Street what am I buying in my 401k which health insurance am I picking okay that would have been my favorite conversation ever because like is it not the most exciting when somebody who's like you know excited to be around you excited to have these conversations and you know how much impact you

can have and how much you can change their life by sharing that yes and no because I got so many questions there was like a line forming at my desk to the point where like I couldn't even get my day job done so I was like you know what I'm gonna put this on the internet and you guys can refer to you know video seven for this video four for this video ten for that and you're a queen and you did all of that for them. I did it for my friends. I did not make Your Rich BFF because I wanted to be an influencer or creator. I made this for my four idiot friends at work who wouldn't stop harassing me. And I was like, haha, they'll love this. I love it so much. That's literally why I created She's On The Money. It's because my girlfriends got sick of hearing me brag on about

retirement savings at brunch. And I was a financial advisor and I didn't have time for it. But I was also really bored being a financial advisor because making rich people richer was not my vibe right that was like the the area that I worked in like the ultra high net wealth space like yeah as you can imagine like it's just not it sounds sexy it's really shiny and I got to wear elite suits yeah but and great dinners great dinners great shoes like yeah the BDMs just want to take you out everywhere I was willing to go but you don't really get a lot of I guess joy out of that after yeah you're like oh I made the same I totally resonated I made someone who had you know 250 million dollars now they have 500 million dollars like yeah sick good one whereas when I

put my very first video up it ended up going viral for good reason and by the end of the week I had 100,000 followers and I was like oh shit the end of the week you had 100,000 followers I have been enslaving away for 100,000 followers. I was like, oh, shit, what do I do? Exactly what you did before, because it worked. Yeah. And so I just started creating content, content that I thought my friends would watch, content that I thought people needed based off of a lot of the questions I was getting. And it's been history ever since. Are you really proud of yourself?

I am. I think one thing that I'm working on this year is taking a second to smell the roses. when you're in this business and I'm sure you probably feel this way a little bit too it can feel like every opportunity is the last and you need to strike while the iron's hot and it's go go go go go because you only get five good years of this a hundred percent but I'm trying to take a second to be like you've already come so far it's okay to take a beat and enjoy the success and then you can always keep going tomorrow but absolutely you can you don't have to earn rest and for a while i was like i need to earn rest i need to ideate seven videos so i can take a break or i need to film you know three youtube so i can take a break

and now it's like i can take a break for a break sake exactly and that's actually one of the reasons why when i'm interviewing someone or meeting them for the first time and i genuinely think that they're really impressive or they've got a really great journey or story to share i always ask like are you proud of yourself? And I feel like it does catch people a little bit unaware because, you know, saying, oh, your parents must be so proud. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool, cool. But I'm like, are you? And I think it's that moment of reflection where you're like, actually, I'm really cool. Like I did this and I created this and, you know, you can create something and somebody could have, you know, served those hundred thousand people to you on

a platter. And you could have been like, that's way too overwhelming. I didn't do it, but you've grown it and you've nurtured it and you've like taken it with both hands and be like, no, this is me this is how it's gonna work and now you're a full-blown author like I just get so excited talking to I guess other money people but people I can also learn from I want to know you know at the end of the day you are teaching people how to money yeah how to money it is a language that not a lot of us are actually fluent in yeah how do we money Vivian like you know I am let's pretend in a nine to five job and I might not have the grace of, you know, having a scalable job where, you know, in your situation, you pump out some more content, you might get some more revenue. Not

everybody's there. What can we do to maximize our nine to five salary? And, you know, how do we do that? So people ask me, how do I, you know, be smart with my money? How do I make good decisions? And I'm like, you should strip. And everyone's like, what did she just say? Are you going to pay me for that right because like if you are how much we'll get some cash out of the atm and we'll start throwing money but I'm pregnant this is not going to be a good experience for either of us but strip is actually an acronym okay and I think that's a little bit disappointing I'm hoping that this picks up from here yeah you're so funny strip is just an acronym and I think it's like a cute little acronym that everyone can use to remember that this is what you should do

if you have no idea where to start. So S stands for savings. When you have a good job where your needs are met, I think one thing that a lot of us struggle with is that lifestyle inflation. We start making more money and we start spending more money and then you're like, oh shit, why don't I have any money? I call it lifestyle creep because it like creeps up on you. Exactly. And it's really rude. It is incredibly rude. But for savings, the first thing I say everybody should do is set aside an emergency fund. And if you are a young singleton, you rent your house, you are just taking care of yourself, three to six months is totally fine. If you are a parent, you own a home, you got a pet, you got kids, you got a car payment, you got all that stuff, I would say

try to get closer to six to 12 months. Okay, so the pressure's on for me. Pressure's on for me. I don't want it to feel like pressure. I want it to feel like today you taking care of future you. And future you is going to be so grateful, right? So grateful. Like how many times do you do small things and you're like, damn, I'm so smart for already doing that. Even just like laying out your outfit for the next morning. I was going to use that as the example. Like how many times do you get up and you're immediately like, last night me was a genius. Genius. Now think about that when your rich AF. Yeah, exactly. Even better. Yeah. So you got to take care of future you. Then we go to T, which stands for total debt. I think this is true in the U.S. This is true in Australia. This

is true pretty much all over the world these days. But like, there is a debt crisis. And when it comes to having a lot of debt, the first thing people do is they look at the big number and they're like, oh, shit. And they get so overwhelmed. They stick their head in the sand and they're like, I'll deal with this next weekend. And then next weekend comes and they're like, I'll deal with this next weekend. And then it's next weekend, next weekend, next weekend until you're six months down the line

and your debt has only compounded because you haven't made a plan to start paying it down. Analysis paralysis is going to kill you. 100%. So with T, total debt, I say use the avalanche method, rank your debt from highest to lowest interest rate because if you make the minimum payment across everything but then put any additional funds

towards the highest interest rate debt, you're gonna be able to pay that debt down as fast as humanly possible while also paying the least in interest and who wants to pay interest literally nobody zero out of ten do not recommend i do not i don't know about you but i've literally never met one person that goes i got a credit card so i can start paying interest like i want to pay more for that dress nobody said that nobody says that so pay it down that way and at least have a plan i don't care if you're chipping away at this thing so slow. But if you don't have a plan and you're just running around like a chicken with its head cut off, like you're going to be in a worse position than if you have a slow and steady

plan. Exactly. We say this in my community all the time, but we always say from little things, big things grow. And that has really, I guess, compounded in our community. And so, so true. It's like, you know, the rabbit and the turtle, like the turtle's going to win because the rabbit, he ran out of steam. And so I think that a lot of the time in our community, and I see it in yours as well. It's just like celebrating the small steps because the small steps, when you look back, are actually the big steps. But at the time, they don't feel that way, right? Like when you first are in debt, you're like, I really don't want to have to do this. Like this makes no sense. It's $5. Why does it matter? Oh, it matters. When you run a marathon, you still have to take

those first steps. You have to run that first mile to get to the second mile, to get to the third mile to finally getting to 26.2 miles you don't just run the marathon starting from the back like at mile 26 no a couple first steps are gonna get you there love love all right tell me about r stands for retirement so speaking of today you taking care of future you very sexy i am very much of the camp that i want to be that crazy retiree drinking pina coladas on the beach i already want to be that person though, Vivianne? Same. So like we're not going to do the FIRE method where we're like just loading it all up. I think you and I are on the same page. So I think retirement is really important because of two reasons. One, it's important to take care of you yourself because

you can't work forever. There is going to be a point where your mind and your body start to decay. And I hate to say that, but it's life. Until we find some sort of everlasting fountain of youth. Nobody gets out of this life alive. Nobody gets out of this life alive. And it's important to start considering things like, you know, in Australia, you're super. Thinking about your 401k at your employer if you're in the U.S. Thinking about a Roth IRA if you, you know, just don't get an employer-sponsored plan. These are all different strategies that not only can you receive tax benefits for.

Which, like, honestly, slays. Everybody loves a tax, Benny. I want a million tax benefits. Why wouldn't I want to pay fewer taxes legally? I don't know. Exactly. But also, again, you're taking care of you in the future, and there's nobody who's going to be better to you than you can be. So with the I in strip, it's important to remember you can't just put the money in.

You actually have to invest it. What? I know. Everybody, this is my analogy. Imagine, you know, close your eyes. You drive to the grocery store, okay? you got your purse slung over your shoulder, you walk into the grocery store, you take a good old lap, you leave, you get back in your car and you go home, then you open up your fridge and you're

like, why don't I have groceries? It's like, you didn't buy any. You literally just walked around the store. And I think when people open... In fact, you have less now because you spent money on fuel. Yes, exactly. And you put mileage on that car. But it's important that when you are opening up these retirement accounts, you actually buy investments. And there are super easy ways to do this, whether that be investing in a target date retirement fund or just index funds that track the broader market, or even just getting a robo-advisor to do it for you. Paying a small management fee is not the worst thing in the world if it means you can get started sooner rather than later. I love. And I also like to say that there's also a secret eye in there.

There's a secret eye. There's a secret eye. I love that there's an eye, but there's a secret eye. The secret eye is income. You can only save as much as you earn, but you can always earn more money. And it is so critically important to not just talk about cutting out the latte, which by the way, cheers. Slaves. Cheers to the Starbucks. It's not enough just to cut back the lattes and the avocado toast. I'm sorry. I want to live a happy life. I want to enjoy myself. It's also important to make more money because do you know how easy it is to ask for a $5,000 raise? Super easy. A $5,000 raise is not unheard of at all. Oh no, but like you can only do that once. You can't do that all the time. You can do that every year. Oh, 100 percent you can. But like you can

go earn another five grand on top of that five thousand dollar raise. And it's so much easier. Like, guys, it's 2023. Yeah. We're not living in the 1950s. Like you can earn five grand and not even leave your house. Yes, exactly. But do you know how hard it is to cut out five thousand dollars worth of expenses? Oh, I'm not willing to do that. Like you don't have Netflix anymore. You don't get to drink your coffee. You don't get to go out to brunch. You don't get to get your mani-pedis. Cutting $5,000 out of your budget is brutal. Getting an extra $5,000 of cash coming in the door is not that hard. It is hard for a lot of people, I reckon, in both of our communities because we're women. And remember how we don't have the audacity of mediocre middle-aged white

men. And the stats say that men, they're going to put themselves forward for a raise or a promotion when they don't even meet the criteria. But we seem to think we need to meet 100% of the criteria we don't do exactly the same thing you don't like ask yourself what would a mediocre middle-aged white man do and then do that babe yeah exactly do that and then p everybody's favorite part of strip is plan everybody who's listening just like take a second if you're driving don't do this close your eyes maybe just think about doing it later think about doing this later but just close your eyes for a second and think about your happily ever after what does that look like do you live in naples florida or naples italy do you own two homes or would you rather retire at

30 and live in an rv there is no right answer the right answer is the one that puts a smile on your face do you want to have you know an entire crew of golden retriever dogs do you want to have two kids do you want to have the dogs do you want whatever you want i want all of that You're like, I want so much fun. You're like, I have a whole farm. Are you saying I can have a farm of golden retrievers? Exactly. But we need to get rich to do that.

And the P stands for plan. You got to make a plan to hit your happily ever after. And knowing what that happily ever after looks like helps you back into a lot of those other numbers that you're going to need to hit to get there and get there as soon as possible. So I just think this fantasizing is so healthy. And I do this with my fiance all the time. And I say, don't you think it'll be amazing when we have so much money and we're able to take, you know, your parents and my parents and your siblings and their kids on vacation? And his retort is always, ew, I don't want to take all of them on vacation with us. That doesn't sound fun at all.

Okay, but we can send them on vacation while we go somewhere else. Somewhere separate. Completely separate. We can pay for the lifestyle you deserve. But those conversations are, one, so fun to have with a significant other if you're just looking to have like a fun little cheeky conversation like on a Thursday night. You've worked out so many different lives. So many different lives. It's also really healthy to have with yourself because it gives you a visual of what you're working so hard for.

And I think that's great. I don't think there's anything too big about that either. I think sometimes, especially as women, we end up with a cap and we're like, oh, that's probably a bit much. I'm a bit much. And it's not. You're not too much. Find someone who needs less. No, don't find someone who needs less.

No, find someone who doesn't need less. Someone who doesn't need less. Exactly. Oh my gosh. I am obsessed with that. I saw it on something like that on TikTok the other day. And they're like breaking up with their boyfriend. They're like, go find someone who wants less than.

Go, go. Like, I'm not mad about that. And I think that that is- You're allowed to have high standards. You're allowed to want this happily ever after. You are allowed to want those things. And if you make a plan, you can hit them. I agree.

I love this strip. I thought you were going to disappoint me because you really started by telling me that You were going to throw money at me and I was 1,000% across it. And then we got a bit disappointed. You were like, it's not real, Strip. And I was like, okay. But this is a plan that makes so much sense. And the thing that I love about this plan is your energy throughout this is so much like the from little things, big things, grow.

Like these are easy steps to take. Like we're doing some savings. We're doing, you know, total debt, which can be really overwhelming. But if you pull your head out of the sand, like you're going to be in a better position. We're going to do retirement. then we're gonna do our you know we're gonna do our income you don't do this all in one sitting you don't do this all in one weekend you do this little by little you chip away at it until you go from to strip to you have the full word strip yeah strip i love it oh my gosh all right well

obviously earning money yeah as you we said before comes with managing money and we said before from little things big things grow and it's all about the small things you were talking about lifestyle creep, which I'm so on board with. But what's the best way that we can make sure that we are managing money properly? Because obviously, if we can't manage $10, we're not going to be able to manage $10,000. But how many times do you hear people saying, I'll do it when I earn more, Vivian. I'll do it when I, you know, I'm out of debt. I'll do it when I, how do we start? Like why today? Because the best day to get good with money was yesterday. And the second best day is today. And when we talk about getting rich and having money, we have to remember that it's not

about timing the market. It's not about picking the perfect investment. It's not about suddenly having a million dollars fall from the sky because you won the lottery. It's about time, commitment, consistency. And time in the market beats timing the market. So time in, T-I-M-E space I-N beats timing, T-I-M-I-N-G. You've won the spelling bee. Dude, I was not a good speller. Not a good speller. No, well, you've proven everybody wrong. Yeah. It beats it every time because you don't need to be the smartest, fastest, strongest person. You need to be the person who has a plan, who starts as early as possible, and just sits and waits. And that is how we get to the final goal. And I think it's really important to call out that investing and

having this life is not only for smart people or people who come from generational wealth, or it's for everybody. And the reason why there's such a vast divide between people who have money and who don't is education. And I think it's a damn shame. I don't know if this is the case in Australia but like in the US we don't teach this stuff in school oh no we don't teach it in school it's why I'm a psycho when it comes to our content and why I just get so frustrated because yeah and I'm I'm sure you're exactly the same as me the more you learn about it the more you're just motivated to share it because you're like everybody deserves this like it makes no sense that we learn trigonometry and we're talking about algebra when my school and the schooling system in Australia

it doesn't so in Australia you can start working at 14 years and nine months you can go get your first job okay slay but they don't tell you that you need to be retirement saving they don't tell you anything about how taxes work but they do expect you to come and still do a you know a whole thing on trigonometry when am I going to use that in the future like when have I ever used sine and cosine literally never and I do you know what my favorite thing is when I was at school this is showing my age now and that I am most definitely in my 30s. They used to say, you won't always have a calculator in your pocket. Literally, I always have a calculator in my pocket. So like, talk to me about taxes. I love to say mediocre middle-aged white man,

and I feel like you're resonating with that. So amazing. But historically, I wish we could say that, you know, it's 2023, Vivian and I, we've invented investing. We are so smart. But I don't know if you've read my favorite book, The Richest Man in Babylon. And I say that because you've only just given me your book. So it might overtake it like Rich AF coming to a bookstore near you. But my favorite book is The Richest Man in Babylon. It's the driest book ever. Like reading it, it is mind numbingly boring. Buying donkeys instead of Coachella tickets. But you know what? It's exactly okay. It is my favorite book because it's like, no, this stuff has existed forever. However, the mediocre middle-aged white men have gatekept that from us for a very long time. And I

mean, you worked on Wall Street, so I feel like you, of anybody else in the entire world, is going to know how well those mediocre middle-aged white men like gatekeeping that content. I love it. But why do you think historically this content has been gatekept and it has been inaccessible for us and I guess a little bit boring when, I don't know about you, but the more and more I learn about wealth creation and getting rich AF, the more excited I am about it. Why has it been boring? And why is it so important to change this moving forward? If I am super rich and I'm part of the status quo, what incentivizes me to make this easier for you?

I still need a minimum wage worker to flip my burger. I need someone to pump my gas and I need someone to come clean my house. I am not incentivized to make this easier for you. And I hate to sound like an absolute like tinfoil hat like conspiracy theorist i'm we're wearing matching tinfoil matching tinfoil hats but like if you know this information and you're like wow this is amazing i got rich using this information i'm gonna pass this information down to my son i'm gonna take him to the country club we're gonna go t off and as we're teeing off i'm gonna explain to my son the rules of the world right because i'm a to quote another book i'm a rich dad yes and my rich son will know all of this information too of course but not your rich daughter because that

would be ridiculous you can't take her on the golf because my rich daughter doesn't have anything to work about because she's gonna marry she's rich she's gonna marry a rich man because we grew up in this society and so in the gate in the gated community somebody else's rich son is gonna take care of her and so foolproof plan foolproof plan but it perpetuates and perpetuates and then these same communities just literally recycle money throughout them because they know the secret Somebody way, way, way up the family tree, so far up that you don't even know what their name is. They managed to figure it out. Good for them.

But that information has now been held in those family lines, in those communities for so, so long. And if you grow up to a single mother who is working hard to put food on the table, who is constantly stressed about making rent, who barely has any time to come to your soccer practice, if you can even afford the soccer program, to come pick you up after school, whatever, her biggest concern is not taking you to the golf course. Oh, absolutely not. Her biggest concern is feeding you and clothing you and taking care of you and being a good parent. And it's not necessarily like a shame on you for not teaching your kid that. it's like mom probably didn't know this information either no that's because it wasn't afforded to her because unfortunately she wasn't born into the right family but do you know what frustrates me the most about that that mom worked harder than anybody else in that other family didn't she

and she like literally sacrificed her entire life her friends her family like the lifestyle goals she had for herself to put that in front of you and i think that that's the most heartbreaking part about it, because if we can teach those moms, we can teach those kids that advice, they can start filtering it down to their families and their kids and motivate them in a way that they've never known how before. I've mentioned this in the book that, you know, my BFFs, I've lovingly dubbed them the leftovers. So it's a lot of women. It's a lot of people of color. It's members of the LGBTQ community. It's people who grew up low income, people who are in any way part of a marginalized community, immigrants, what have you. And you know what happens when we give

those communities more money? They get power and then they get powerful and they can change their entire lives. But also they put that money back into those communities. It gets recycled into those communities. They're the people we want to know. Yes. They're the ones that we want to be BFFs with because they're the good eggs. These good eggs then filter that information, both money and information back into their communities and it helps to uplift entire neighborhoods entire segments of the population and when they do better we all do better do you know what my favorite quote is and it is literally about that it's a rising tide lifts all ships and i say it so often that my team are so over me they're like victoria give it up we've heard it a million times

i'm like and i will say it a million more yeah because it's just it's so true put that in the hands of the people that need it the most and they're going to be the most powerful with it because they want everybody else to rise yeah put it in the hands of the mediocre middle-aged white men who want to gatekeep it and they'll give it to their son on a golf course it's not even like the necessarily just middle-aged mediocre white men like they're way more fun to bring down very 100 but like corporations right like we talk about oh if we pass certain legislation so that corporations can save money they're going to pass that savings on to the consumer. When in reality have we ever seen that happen? Literally never. Like, you know what

corporations do? They pad their margins, they make more money, and then they give their CEOs bigger bonuses. It breaks my heart. I was talking to my production team here at iHeart earlier today because obviously I'm from Australia and everything is so different. Like here in America, like we tip, like I have never done that before. All the prices include the, you know, the service fee, the service charge plus tip. And I'm like, how do you then add taxes? Like I'm not good at this. Like, I have never felt worse at money, Vivienne. It is the worst. But I learned about your minimum wages and I just was shook. Jaw drop. I was so angry. Like, I was frustrated and disappointed. And I completely understand how that works in the culture of it all.

But like, these people aren't even earning living wages to put food on their tables. And then they're seeing content that gets rolled out about investing and they're like, that's not for me but then they see you and they're like she is for me like she is my rich bff and she wants to lift me and i just i get so excited about it because obviously internationally there are such differences in our economies and what my economy looks like versus yours but at the end of the day the money rules and you know you were talking earlier about this concept of strip that's international like it doesn't matter where you live or what you do they're the basics and if you're given the foundations you can actually thrive and i just

i get so excited about it and i also think that this fear this stress this just you know concern around money it spans countries any sort of borders and even languages i think there are people in every single country who worry about money and it's most people frankly it's most people. Unrelatable problem to not worry about money. Right. I think a big part of addressing that concern and addressing how to make things better is talking about the actual amount we make, how much we spend, what we save, what we invest, and making it really transparent for people. Because until people see the numbers, they're not going to get it. And we can do what we can, But I want everybody listening, call your best friend.

Call them and have a money date. Talk about money. Talk about what you make. Tell them that. Because when we talk about money, we make it less taboo. And when we all know what each other are earning, we all know what we're spending on rent, we all know how we can save and budget and use credit card points or do better or buy a car for less and get more out of our lives. we do better and corporations do worse. And that's good.

That is a very good outcome. All right, let's go to a really quick break. I have loved talking about this, but we are going to flip to my favorite topic, investing. So guys, do not go anywhere, including you, Vivian. All right, Vivian, we are back. And I have loved our chat so far. Like, I am so upset that I haven't read your book already because it hasn't come out yet. And I've literally just begun. just gifted her a copy. An uncorrected book for limited distribution. So like, I've got it on pre-order. It's not because I was lazy and didn't read the book of the person who I was interviewing. I promise, because usually I'm psycho about that. But in your book, you obviously talk a lot about

investing. And as you said before, if you're not investing, it's like going to the grocery store and then not taking home anything and wondering why your fridge is empty. So in your experience, what do you think the biggest barrier is that people face when they think about, I guess, taking that first leap into investing because it can be so overwhelming it's so overwhelming it's so jargon heavy and i think there's a little bit of a myth that only people who are rich can invest because you hear people talk about like high net worth individuals like the people you used to work with like they're just not my people vivian yeah and they're not yours either no but you know what people think that those are the only people who can invest that's not true that's how

they became high net worth individuals is by investing. Everyone started somewhere. Correct. And what I like to say is investing is the only way that you as a single human being can have a two-income household without anybody else. And why have one income when you can have two? Slay? Yep. We have to think about ourselves as humans, right? How many hours a day do you think you could feasibly work before you're like I hate my life and I'm burnt out me personally well it depends what I'm working on babe like four hours maybe four I thought you were gonna go a little higher than that but that's great I'm joking I'm joking I am somebody who has burnt themselves yeah like as a financial advisor like I look back on it and I used to have this perception that you

had to be that get up at 5 a.m girly like I would go to the gym before getting my bullet coffee and going to the office like I wanted to be the first person in the office like and this is very like investing money finance world like if you're there before like your contract might say 8 30 a.m for a start oh no no no like if you're not there at seven like what are you doing with your life yeah and so I used to think that was an indicator of success and I was doing like 60 70 80 hours a week like quite often because I thought that was what is expected of me and it's not like it's going to burn you out. That's unsustainable. It's super unsustainable. But if we think about how much the average human being can feasibly work a day, you end up with like a rough max of like

16 hours. That's like when like my fiance was in the trenches of investment banking, living like the worst life possible. Many people work about eight hours a day. Which is very reasonable. Very reasonable. But you really can't work more than that because you still need to sleep. You still need to eat. You still need to take a bathroom break. You need to shower occasionally and like live your life. Only occasionally. Only occasionally. Good. Same page. Your money can work for you 24-7. Your money doesn't need a shower occasionally. Your money does not need a shower. Your money does not need a lunch break. They don't need a bathroom break.

They don't need anything. They can work for you 24-7. As they should. As it should because you deserve it. And what's so amazing is that at the beginning of your career, it's really important to work hard for your money. And as you start to earn that money, if you are able to be really mindful and start investing it, as time passes on, you will do less and less of working hard for your money and more and more of your money working hard for you. The magic of the very sexy compound interest. Correct. Which makes me so excited. But like, that's overwhelming. Like, where do I start? If I am a girlie who, you know, I'm listening to this and I'm like, you guys are so fun. Like Vivian sounds like she's written the best book in the entire world and I am a thousand

percent going to go read it. What do I need to do as the very first step? Do I need $5? Do I need $50,000? Like I feel like there's this misconception that if you don't have a minimum of like, you know, a couple of thousand to start, why bother? Is that the truth? Not even a little bit. So we are not living in our parents' generation, now you can start investing with literally a dollar because of something called fractional shares. This is so exciting. So much fun. Essentially, I like to say, think about this again, back in the grocery store metaphor. What you need to do is pick a purse, okay? Just a bag. Some people want to take their Whole Foods tote bag. Some people take their work purse. Some people just take a random plastic bag that they have. Yeah, that's me. That's me.

Random plastic bag. Let's go. How are we investing? Pick a bag. And this bag represents the type of account you're opening. Some of these accounts are cooler than others. Some of these bags are cooler than others. Maybe they have tax benefits for retirement. Maybe they're just a standard regular plastic bag, which is more of an individual brokerage account, something like that. But it doesn't super matter. There are some bags that are better than others, but just use an account, pick an account. You just need a bag and you just need to make sure it doesn't have holes in it. Correct. Then what you do is you take your money and you put it in the bag. So you take cash out of a checking or savings account, wherever you bank, and you put it into

this special bag. Then you go to the store, the store being a brokerage. A brokerage is anywhere that you are able to purchase securities. These are a lot of the online platforms you probably are really familiar with. And once you get there, this is the part that everybody seems to faff. You can't just, again, walk around the grocery store and leave. You actually need to buy apples. Damn it. That was not an investment advice to buy apple. Do not just put all your money into one stock. No, no, no. I thought you genuinely meant the fruit. And that was a good analogy of having really solid things that you're meant to have in your fridge, right? But what I like to say is like, you have to buy your fruits, you have to buy your veggies, you have to buy your

grains or your carbs. You got to get your meats, a little bit of cheese, a couple beverages. Can we have some chocolate and stuff in there too? Yeah, we can have some chocolate. But only after we've done the basics, right? Yes, a little bit of chocolate just in case. And maybe a one little tray of grocery store sushi because I'm disgusting. Oh, no, that's not disgusting. That is an elite form of dining. Correct. And that is equivalent to you purchasing investments. And again, like I mentioned,

Target date funds are great. Index funds that track broader indices. You can utilize these through the form of ETFs, which are exchange traded funds. They're essentially like baskets of stocks or mutual funds, which are, again, more baskets of investments, but they're more typically managed by a human being sitting behind a desk. Or again, just pick a robo advisor. It's kind of like a, what do you guys have in Australia? We have robo advisors in Australia. No, no, no. I'm trying to think what's the equivalent. So like we have like GoPuff here or like Peapod. Yeah. Okay. we have like StockSpot and stuff like that. But we also have, you were talking about fractional shares before, and this isn't something that we've been able to access for ages because America is so

ahead of us and I'm so annoyed. But we have a platform called Sharesies, which we champion in our community because you can buy fractional shares. So like, just like you were saying, you can invest for as little as a dollar. To us, that's quite new. And it is so sexy. And I'm so excited about it because it just, it brings so much more opportunity. Like some shares are hundreds of dollars per share or per stock. And you can buy a dollar worth of it if you still want exposure to that asset. And I just think it's so exciting when you can start, you become a big dog immediately. You do. And it's, think about like buying one grape out of a bushel of grapes, or I guess, what is it called? Because that might be all you need. I have no idea. A bushel of grapes

of yours, right? Yeah. A cluster. We are good at money, not fruits. Fruits. Yes. But you can basically buy one chip out of the bag, one grape out of the bunch, one slice of turkey out of the container. Because it might be all you need. That might be all you need, but it's great to start with that. And so you can start with as little as a dollar. It's so easy. And truly, don't overthink it. Like, I feel like the longer you wait, the worse off you'll likely be. Whereas even just starting with a couple dollars, like, what's losing $3 to you? It's probably not a huge deal, but start with $3. See what happens. And once you get really, really comfortable, move on. It compounds. Yes. $3 to $10 to $100. And then you're going to wake up one day and you're going

to be rich AF, right? That's right. Ah, slay. All right. Let's take it back a step. We were talking about the golf course and how all the little boys get to go to golf course and learn really early about money. We have in the She's on the Money community member, so many members who ask me about investing for kids and what that looks like. What do you think the most effective way to invest for kids is and what that looks like and ways that we can, I guess, build wealth for families through investing? Yeah. So I'm not sure if there's necessarily an equivalent account in Australia. However, in the US, you can open up something called a custodial Roth IRA, which is so wonderful. It essentially is the similar retirement account except for your kid. And

before they become of legal age, you are able to start putting their earned income into these accounts. So say your kid mows lawns or babysits or you are an influencer and have a wonderful podcast and your kid is in part of the marketing materials or some of the photos. Yeah, like we're commercializing this baby. Yes. Like the baby got to work. The baby does not get to live in the house. You are not going to be a NEPO baby. I'm telling you that right now. You are going to know your worth. Yes. So if they have earned income, the parent can then help put that money into that account for that kid. That money can start growing right off of the bat, start immediately compounding. And what's so amazing is that, you know, again, this custodial Roth IRA

has a lot of the benefits that a normal Roth IRA would have, meaning you can take any of the contributions out at any time, penalty-free. You just can't withdraw the earnings, but that money can be used to help fund their future retirement or potentially a big house purchase down the line or if they need money for anything else. Like, that money can be utilized for a lot of things, and if you don't touch it, they're going to be totally set, and they're going to be a millionaire almost guaranteed if you're putting a couple hundred dollars in each month by the time they retire and that is comfort and financial freedom that like frankly I didn't have growing up like I did not have you know any sort of like trust fund setup or anything like that but like I'd love to

do that for my kids I'm still waiting for my parents to turn around one day and be like Victoria we have just been trying to teach you to be humble we actually have a trust fund for you but we wanted you to work it out on your own they haven't done that yet I'm in my 30s maybe it'll happen in my 40s actually uh victoria we need to tell you a big secret of the family you are the princess of genovia yes see i would be living my best life the custodial roth ira sadly isn't available in australia but we have something relatively similar called an investment bond that you can use for children in australia i would love it if there was an ability to like open a superannuation fund for kids because in Australia, the tax system, honestly, on kids, it makes sense because it's

meant to stop the rich getting richer and distributing their income to their children. So kids actually in Australia have a tax rate of about 65%. Oh, wow. So they're like, oh, that's a bad idea. Obviously, if you're really rich, you're not going to choose to distribute income from your family trust to your children in that case. But it shoots people who are in our communities who want to start early and get their kids ahead. So an investment bond could be something that might work for you. So have a look into that because obviously a custodial Roth IRA is very sexy. I love sexy. I'm very jealous, but I can't have one. So I love it. Let's wrap up investing because obviously in finance, we cover a lot of, I would say, burning topics. But what

is one question that you wish people would ask you when they interview you? Like, you get to tell me what to ask you. What's the most powerful question I could ask you in this moment? Probably what money topics you need to talk about with a partner. Oh, yeah. Spicy, tell me what money topics do I need to ask my partner about? What a good idea. I came up with it myself. I am very much of the camp that you need to be asking your partner about any debt they have, about how much they have in savings, what they make every year, what their happily ever after looks like, if they plan on helping support their parents, how many kids they want to have, where they want to live, what are their views on splitting expenses, what type of wedding they're

looking forward to, basically everything. And that's the problem, right? Because I don't know if the divorce rate is as high as it is in the U.S. Like 50%. Yeah, it's like 50% here. And that's troublesome because sex and money rank as number one and two on topics as reasons why couples fight. And can you imagine if you were just able to never fight about money ever again? That would be the best thing in the entire world. You would be saving on so much heartache, so many fights, so many arguments. And the reason why people fight about money is because one, secrets are revealed late in the game, or there's a disagreement about your fundamental views on what a dollar is worth.

And these are conversations you need to be having when you— Before you decide to marry them. Before you decide to get the government involved, please. And so it's so important to have these conversations, right? Because I truly think who you choose as a partner is one of the most important decisions you will ever make in your entire lifetime, if not the most important. I could not agree more. Because if your partner is a sparkling baby angel, amazing, you are going to have, like, unfiltered support.

You're going to have a conscientious partner. You're going to have someone who lifts you up, someone who supports you, someone who's great. But if you have, like, a demon hater at home, imagine having a hater at home. Like, one out of ten. Like, that does not sound like a good time. No. Like, you are going home to try and have that be your safe space. And then you have someone who's like, I don't think you should take that job offer.

That's not a good idea. Or like, I don't think you should start the side hustle that you want to do or your passion project. Like, you're such a hater. Like, red flag, get out of my house. Yes. Like, you want to have a partner who believes in you when you don't believe in you. And you want to have that person not necessarily be rich, but they better be financially stable and they better have a plan. It's okay for them to have debt.

It's okay for them to not have a ton of money. It's okay for them to not make a ton of money. but what's their plan to make enough money pay down that debt and have enough savings to do all the things they want to do in their life because if they don't have a plan you're not going anywhere fast and if your partner doesn't want to do that maybe have a little bit of a think about it but Vivian's partner I can almost guarantee is going to listen to this episode and be like that's me guys she's talking about me can I tell you I talked about him on another podcast and I caught him listening to it and I was like wait are you like listening to this in secret we were on vacation

and I caught him listening to it with his headphones in. And I was like, I love him. He's your biggest fan, though. He's my biggest fan. But I was like, were you checking to see if I said anything bad? And he was like, no, I don't think you would say anything bad because I don't do anything bad. And I was like, fair, fair, fair.

I feel like that's like my husband who I am obsessed with and is exactly the same. And like we, when it comes to money, like when we got together, I was in debt. Like we went through that journey together. It's not as though I, you know, came into this and was like, hey money's really easy it was hard but the whole time we had these conversations and now it's so easy because we respect each other my fiance and i can i say like first off we rarely fight because i feel like we have one brain that we share same people are like why don't you fight i'm like

because i've never had an original thought literally but we've never ever fought about money because we've made it such a priority to talk about it every single month every single week and frankly all the time so that we're always on the same page how much we want to spend on xyz for our wedding how much do we want to be gifting our parents in-laws whatever for the holidays what do we want to be spending on vacations on that makes me so everything like that is so sexy and he is the one who pushed me to take your rich bff full-time like this would not exist without this man yeah and if you don't have the biggest supporter at home you're not going to be able to create the life that you deserve. Correct. One out of 10. So the advice here from this podcast is

buy Vivian's book and marry or intend to marry an investment banker. No, no. No, no. I mean, that's what I'm getting from this because he seems really switched on and wants to talk about Manny. You know, I think for me, dating someone in finance was really nice because I had crazy hours. I had to cancel last minute on dates sometimes. But he got it and he was on your page. So that's why because we worked I didn't mean an investment banker because they're rich I mean that's another perk but also I think he understood what I was going through and so we had so much to you know share but I think just marrying and dating someone who values a dollar the same way you do and values you and believes in you even more than you believe in yourself I think that's the key that's so

beautiful I feel like that's a really good place to leave it so Vivian I want to know where can I find you? Where can I order your book? Where can I consume more of you? Because you are such joy. Like, I am so excited to have met you. I just feel like our community is going to embrace this wholeheartedly. But like, I need more. I need to have Strip in literally written form. And I'm assuming it's in your book. Well, thank you so much for sharing me with the She's On The Money community. You can purchase my book at richaf.me. Yes, the URL is a manifestation. Slay. 10 out of we love it so richaf.me for the book order url and then you can find me across social media as you're rich bff and i also have a podcast called net worth and chill i love it i am going to be

listening to every single episode i cannot wait to run into you again because we have so much to talk about but guys unfortunately that is all we have time for today so vivian thank you for being so generous with yours thank you so much for having me The advice shared on She's on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's on the Money are authorised representatives of MoneySherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289.