She's On The Money - How to Find & Reach More Customers for Your Business

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Join Victoria and Jess today to discuss the 7 things you should do to expand your customer base, plus how can the 5-5-5 rule grow your network? Tune in to find out! Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Business Bible. If you've been thinking of starting a side hustle or a small business, you are definitely in the right place. I'm Victoria Devine, an ex-financial advisor who has a background in psychology, and I currently run several successful businesses. As always, I am joined by my beautiful friend and one of the hardest working side hustlers I know, Ms. Jessica Ricci. Hello. Good morning. I am excited for today's episode. Me too. I feel like we haven't done a business bible up in a little bit, so I always get excited for them. And I feel like today's topic feels like it's really straightforward, forward. But it's one of those things that's easier said than done. You go, oh, just reach

more people. How do you do that? Oh, marketing, Jessica. That's the episode. Yeah. It's like one of those, that's it. It's like one of those buzzwords that people throw around, like marketing, reach more people, blah, blah, blah. But today we're going to talk about how to actually do it. How to actually reach more customers for your business. And then after the break, we're going to be exploring how to use the 5-5-5 rule to create and grow your network. But let's talk about the things that we think you should know to expand your customer base. Jess, you're bloody smart. At the end of the day, I want to know where you're coming from.

Where do you think we should be starting? Surely with understanding our audience, right? Our customer. We talk about that all the time at She's On The Money, right? Like we have this avatar of who our consumer is. Like we know that they aren't in their 60s, but we have people in their 60s who engage in our content. So it's not necessarily about excluding people

but rather identifying who your perfect person is. Like in a perfect world, we've basically got Jess and she's a she's on the money poster child, right? Like she's in her 30s. That's new, that's fresh. It's not going to get old. It's not fun. But like you're in your early 30s, you've just turned 30,

and you want to create financial freedom. Like at the end of the day, that is the she's on the money target audience. And so it's really good for us to have an idea of who that is, but also an idea of who actually engages with our content. Because sometimes your ideal consumer ends up not being the person that engages with your content. And while that can be really confusing, understanding who is actually engaging with your content or purchasing your product, not your ideal, is going to help you sell more.

It's going to help turbocharge your business. so I guess let's go through a few more nuanced steps so Jess here are a few I guess steps that we could take to actually identify our target audience instead of like you know turning up at their house and being like so you bought my my candle holder yeah what was your name how old are you how does this work so we're going to do some market research we could use tools like surveys we could use interviews we could do a few focus groups bring together a couple of your consumers to gather information about what growing your audience might look like. Analyze your competitors. I always say on the show, like it's best to have blinkers on and not actually get analysis

paralysis or overwhelmed by looking at your competition. But good business owners are able to pragmatically analyze their competitors to see what their consumers are liking. I prefer to learn from somebody else's mistakes, Jess, instead of making my own. And then we can use tools like Google Analytics to kind of track and understand the demographics of the visitors that are coming to your website. Because as I said before, sometimes you've got a target audience and you think this product is going to be perfect for Jessica. It's going to be fantastic. And then you find that Craig's purchasing it. And we need to understand why that's happening. Not necessarily to stop it, but to go, okay, well, actually the product I thought would appeal to Jess,

she's not purchasing it. One, I want to know why, but two, why is Craig like this? So that we can actually go down the route of expanding our customer base and ultimately getting more sales and strengthening our business. What would you look at next after that? I would say really optimizing your online presence. I was about to say social presence, but it's not just social media, right? Like it's your website, it is your social media. It's kind of everything that could live on the internet, right? So the first thing that I would do is actually make sure that you have a user-friendly website. So many of us overlook this. We just like chuck a page up and think that that's more than enough because maybe you're not selling a product. Maybe you're an

influencer and you're like, oh, if I just have a website and I mean, I don't know, Jess, have you done your website? It's a work in progress. I know you've been working on it. I was like, is that a thing? Not yet. I can't say I Google Jessica Ricci all that often. That seems reasonable. we are. But I mean, maybe I should. Maybe I'll dig up a little bit of dirt that I could use. But what we want to do is make sure that we have a user-friendly, informative and optimized website and that doesn't have to cost us lots. Like Jess, we have Squarespace and both you and I can log into the back end of it. We are not professionals by any stretch of the imagination and we can manage the entirety of the She's On The Money website. But what having a good website does is

one, it's social validation. So before I engage with any product, I'm going to snoop them. I'm going to go online and have a look at who they are and what they do to make sure that I know they're legit. Like if I'm going to buy a product from you and then I go to your website and it says holding page, I'm going to be like, is this a legit company? Like, has it shut down? Skimming, not trustworthy. So we essentially just want to be as trustworthy as possible. Does that mean you need the biggest, brightest, shiniest logo? No, no. We just need to be really clear in our messaging. The next thing I would say is search engine optimization. So if people are searching you and cannot find you, you are missing out on potential customers. And search

engine optimization can seem really confusing, but ultimately search engine optimization works by being able to pull keywords from your website and put them into a search engine platform. So like if someone Googles Jessica Ricci, we want your website coming up. That means that to come up, we want to make sure that the words Jessica Ricci are all over your website. So they're not just in the username, they're in the heading, they're in the text of the website. And the same goes for like, let's say Jess, I always use the example of candles, I think, because like, I think that in my head is the quintessential side hustle or small business. It's a perfect example, right? like let's say you sell candles, right? You would want to make sure that your website has

keywords, candles. You would want to make sure that all of the keywords that are important to you are used on your website. So if Melbourne made is important or Australian made is important, or, you know, making sure that you've got candles, maybe you do wax melts in addition, making sure that you're talking about all of these things in the text of your website is really important, not just whacking the product up because that's where Google pulls its information from. It pulls it from the text on your website. So there's obviously a lot more complex things you can do around search engine optimization, but I would start there. And then social media, Jess, you're the queen of social media at the end of the day. I think that we can all agree

that maintaining consistency online is really important. If you're a business and you're planning on selling stuff, and then a customer goes to your Instagram and sees you haven't posted in 12 months, they might think that you're no longer in operation. So we need to be consistent, but also we need to make sure that we are active and engaging. So where is your target audience? Who are they following? What are they doing? Are you actually engaging with other profiles that is going to get you some visibility? And then content marketing. So what are you putting up on your website? Are you regularly updating a blog if that's necessary? Are you addressing the needs and the interests of your consumer so that you can actually draw them into your product.

I talk a lot often about establishing yourself in the industry as a leader, right? So when I'm doing that, it means that I'm writing a lot of content and putting a lot on our website and our blog that is free for people to consume because I want to draw them in. I want them to see me as somebody who knows their stuff, who knows what she's talking about, not necessarily only when I'm getting paid for it. Because if you're only engaging in paid content, well, it's going to be few and far between, especially at the start. Yeah. Where's the value for people? Exactly. It's interesting actually, because those three link together really closely. SEO is such a great skill. And I was reading an article recently about how TikTok specifically, but social media

more broadly are becoming their own search engines. People are turning to TikTok instead of going to Google, how do I fix my sync? How do I fix my tap? People are plugging those same things into TikTok or into Instagram. I'm doing it myself. Yeah. They're looking to consume shorter form media or they're looking for visual demonstration. Maybe they're looking on YouTube or something like that. And so it's really interesting how those same SEO skills that historically you would have only applied to your website or to your blog or whatever that was, and now branching out to apply to your socials as well. And so once you kind of learn that skill, you really can apply it in many different places that then will help boost the visibility of that

social and hopefully help grow your reach there too. So it's really interesting. I know that SEO particularly is something that a lot of people go, oh, that seems hard and like not to say that it's not, but. Like it doesn't have to be hard. Like it can be very simple. And I think that when we're, you know, creating content like this, you're not looking for the super technical side of SEO. You're probably like, how do I optimize my website myself? How do I put myself and my business in the best possible position? A company that's doing this really well actually is, you know, my friend Mia who has Moxie. So Moxie are period care products, but if you go to their TikTok, they are popping off with the educational content, which ultimately drives their consumer back to

their product, right? So if you go to their TikTok, you will notice that they're not really talking about their product at all. They're talking about period care. They're talking about how you use different products, the different options on the market. They're talking about, you know, all of those taboo things that consumers are pervy about, but then it gets you connected with the brand. And I think that we can learn a lot from them because they've nearly got a million followers now. Who would have thought that a tampon company could get a million followers, but she's doing it and absolutely killing it. So I think that having good examples is also really helpful because when you start to dive into them, you realize they're not just jumping

on saying, hey, I sell this candle, look at it again, look at it again. That's not what they're doing. They're kind of creating the lifestyle around it so that you kind of then see their product as a way to engage with their platform. And I think that working backwards that way is really powerful. And I mean, Jess, every time I'm buying something in the moment, I'm looking it up on TikTok first. Yeah. You're looking for those rules. That's how you're reaching more people. Those platforms are pushing you out to broader audiences, to new eyeballs. And if the content's engaging and exciting, like you were saying Moxie is, people go, oh, like maybe I'll look into that a little more. Maybe I'll give something a little try. Exactly. And then I guess we could segue

into, well, Jess, should we be paying for advertising? What are your thoughts on this? because we run a lot of partnerships, but we've never really done paid advertising. At what point do we do we do that? I think we got burned in the early days, fun little learning for everybody. And I was listening to Em Lucen talk about this. She had the same problem. So it seems like it's a reoccurring thing. But there are many agencies out there and I don't want to paint all agencies with the same brush, but there are many agencies out there that will say, hey, like we'll run your paid ads for you. You can spend two thousand dollars and turn it into a hundred thousand dollars. And you see all of these great success

stories. And we tried in the really early days of She's On The Money because someone approached us. We were like, this is a good idea. Okay. You guys seem legit. I obviously would like to grow my podcast. Of course. Fantastic. How'd that go for us? Not great. Not to be crass, but we kind of pissed the money down the drain. Yeah, we did. And they did nothing. Do you remember this? This is probably juicy goss. We won't name names, but do you remember how we were like already not happy with them, we had seen absolutely no conversion. And then one of my friends messaged me and said, oh my gosh, could you please tell me about your experience with XYZ Marketing Agency? Because you guys are front and center of their media pitch pack. And I was like,

oh, this is very awkward. Yeah. Extremely uncomfortable. And not to say that paid advertising doesn't work. I think there's definitely a time and a place. But I think particularly for small business, there is so much value in learning to do it yourself. And I guess that's a good example of how I didn't know what I didn't know. Completely. And I think when somebody comes in and says, look, we can help you do X, Y, and Z, I was like, oh my gosh, that's exactly what I want. And at that point in business, it was a massive cost for us.

Yeah. And we invested this money and hoped to get a return and we didn't. Yeah. And it was bullshit. And we were locked in on a retainer. So we were stuck there for a couple of months. Exactly. And then when we look back, I'm like, Jess, you and I could have learned so much online.

We could have gone to YouTube and worked out how to do our own paid ads. We could have worked out whether we even wanted to do that. And ultimately, we decided to do that at a time in our business that didn't make a lot of sense. Like, had we done it now, and at the moment I'm trying to work out paid advertising, I'm looking at how to do Facebook ads, how to do Instagram ads, because I'm about to come out with a new course. and then after that course comes out another one's coming out and like hopefully it'll just

keep rolling from there but paid advertising has its place but at the time I was trying it it didn't make a lot of sense so I think this is a good lesson in going well actually how does this fit into my business and if I attract a whole heap of customers can I look after them yeah like can I actually service these people if they were to come in so Jess moving on from I guess paid ads because we could do a lot of conversation and maybe we do a whole episode on the different types of advertising. But let's talk about partnerships because this is a thousand percent your topic because what's your official job title? Partnerships manager. Oh, wow. Okay. So we've got the expert here, but talk to me about partnering with other businesses. At what

point should we be considering it? At what point should we be pushing back and not doing free collaborations. Like what does that look like? I think that partnerships, especially in the early days of your business can be really beneficial because we've spoken before about like finding people who are going through similar experiences to you as a small business owner or a startup owner. And I think collaborating with other businesses, that can be a really good way to connect with people. And so I think back in the day, I remember lots of small brands would come together and maybe do like a giveaway on Instagram and, you know, follow all of the pages in the giveaway. And while it's a whole separate discussion about whether or not that type of

giveaway is the best way of reaching new people, working with other brands, I think, can help you gain a level of exposure to an aligned audience, to a similar customer. If you're selling candles and you work with someone who sells- Eye masks. Eye masks, exactly. Like self-care stuff. You go, probably a similar target market. So if you work together on a giveaway or if you go hey can we create a co-branded product or finding just like a gift pack between the two of you exactly like there are lots of things that you can explore that I think are really good but you need to make sure that it's beneficial on both sides and so if you're a startup business and you've got you know your candle that you really

love and you go to glasshouse candles and you go hey can we collaborate together the benefit may not be there for them. And I think sometimes people go, oh, but I want to work with other people. I want to partner up, but there needs to be value for both of you. Because for the small business, you go, oh, Glasshouse Candles, like they're selling to my ideal customer. You're going to get absolute value out of this. Yeah, that's awesome for me. If we can find a way to work together, that would be great. But you then have to explain to the other company, in this case, Glasshouse, why should they work with you? Like, do you have a unique product that you've created that

you've patented the technology and you're the only person doing it and you know they can be ahead of the curve if they work with you and you create something together or you know do you work with a particular artist and you can co-brand you know something on their candles but if there's no value there for them they're not going to want to do it and it sounds harsh and even if they agree to it they might not put the time and energy and effort into it that you're anticipating yes so the energy input from you could be incredibly high. And then they might just tag you in one Instagram story and you'll be like, wait, what? Like, that's not what I expected. The other thing you touched on before was like the word collaboration. And I think that in small business, we talk about

collaborating all the time, but often as a small business, you kind of get so worried that they're actually competition. Like you might see other people in your space doing better or other people in your space that you think are doing better or even just other people around you and instead of collaborating and being I guess you could say really open you're really insular and you're like no I don't want anything to do with them because you know they're my competition and you know their sole product might be eye masks but they sell a candle so they're cut like I can't talk to them at all and I think we need to be open to embracing the idea of collaboration over competition because competition puts you backwards. It's like me in finance, right? There's so many

mortgage brokers out there. Are they my competition? No, because I'm not them and they're not me. So somebody, if you were a mortgage broker, somebody is going to resonate with Jess and only want to work with Jess. It doesn't matter who I am or what I do or how many awards I win. Someone's also going to want to work with me and not resonate with you. And I think the sooner you come to that realization that there's actually more than enough people out there. And that's true in any industry. A lot of people might come to us, Jess, and say, is it even worth starting a candle business now? Glasshouse exists. And the answer to that is, well, yes, because you're offering a slightly different product. It's the experience. It's the connection to brand. It's

the values and morals. It's not necessarily the actual candle. When someone buys a candle, They're not like, do you know what I feel like, Jess? I'd like a glass full of wax. Like that's not what they're thinking. They're thinking the experience. They're thinking scent. They're thinking how does this benefit and uplift my life? And you're providing that experience.

So I think going deeper and realizing that we're not in competition. You can collaborate. It's going to be able to expand your network. Yeah, absolutely. The other type of partnership that you could consider is affiliate programs. Oh, yeah. And now this, when you're a small business, you know, it might be a little bit more tricky to set up and there are actually platforms that will help you facilitate that.

But effectively affiliate marketing is where if somebody sells one of your products, you pay them a percentage of the sale as a commission effectively. And if you're just starting out, this might not be quite right for you. But I think once you're a little bit more established, it can be a really great way to get existing customers, people who already use and love your product to represent it and to sell on your behalf. And maybe that is also a whole separate episode because there's a lot to talk about.

Yeah, I feel like affiliate marketing is becoming massive in Australia. It was massive in the UK and the US. And, I mean, the best example I have of this is LTK. And LTK is it's like to know. Yeah, and like to know it. And they are basically a fashion platform where your favourite influencers like Mr Screechy can put up their wardrobes and basically any product that they sell and direct you to it. Because how many times do you comment on an influencer's post to be like, hey, where's

your jacket from? Like real cute. All the time. The link is actually in their bio. They've listed the product, but they get a clip of that sale when you purchase it. And to be honest, I think that's really fair. Like you're the one that saw it on them. They're basically selling to you. But if you are a small business and you sell clothing, making sure you're listed on websites like that so that your consumer can actually pick it up and list it and share it with their communities is really smart. Yeah, I totally agree. And I'm actually very excited to hear your thoughts more on influencer marketing because I feel like it's a little bit spicy. Should we be using influencers in our businesses? Stick around.

Let's go to a break and then you can find out after that. welcome back everybody to the business bible and vd i want to get your thoughts on influencer marketing because you kind of really straddle the fence in a very interesting way on this uh yes because i would i i don't know i don't like being seen as an influencer but if we distill it down am i one jess totally damn it i would like to be seen as as who i believe i am right which is a business owner and I run She's On The Money. I'm a podcaster. I'm a mom. For me, influencer is not a job title I like to embrace because I don't see it as my job. And often when we talk about influencers, that's their entire job. But I guess if we reshape it, I was talking

to my friend, Angela Sobrano, the other day, and she runs a company called Flourish PR. And she was like, we're moving away from calling people influencers because that seems to have negative connotations to defining them as people of influence. So people of influence who carry influence in their market, right? So am I against influencer marketing? Absolutely not. There is a massive, massive market for it. However, that doesn't mean as a business, it is the right fit for you. What would be a right fit is considering what might work and how it might work. And influence marketing. Let's talk about our client, Jess Caboodle. I am obsessed with Caboodle. I am literally their perfect ambassador because I adore their product. And also, I am currently in the

midst of renovating my house. So, I have just renovated my kitchen and I've used Caboodle products. I was intending on doing that the whole time. However, they worked backwards, saw that I was engaging in their content, contacted me and said, hey, V, we as a brand are interested in working with you because we can see that this is on your horizon already. So I would say that this is a really organic match for me to be working, I guess, in that influencer or person of influence space with a brand because my community know that I'm currently renovating my house. The whole time I wanted to do that on a budget, like it's actually really important to me to not overcapitalize on the property that we've purchased. So we're going

through the motions of this. That makes a lot of sense because it's appealing to our demographic and it's an opportunity for Caboodle to get access to my audience. On the flip side, had I worked with like a big luxury brand, I don't think that would have worked, Jess. So let's say like the fancy pants kitchen company wanted to come and work with me. That didn't make sense because it wasn't organic and not only would I you know probably have got a lot of backlash because people would have been like V because people aren't stupid they would have been like V this makes no sense for you at this point like are you seriously putting a five hundred thousand dollar kitchen in that house like what but also it wouldn't have made sense for them because

they're not getting access to the target market that I have like my audience they're like you and I Jess I love a bargain yeah we do we love a bargain we love to see little DIYs like that's probably where people sit in the sphere of, you know, your and my content. Like you're the queen of doing DIY smaller projects. I wish I could do them. But then when it comes to, you know, doing a kitchen, I want all the tips and tricks. I want to know where the dishwasher is meant to go to make it the most economical and like user-friendly kitchen. So I think making sure that if you are going to work with influencers, they actually are reflective of one, your target audience, but a two actually influential is really important. And I mean, we'll probably

do an entire episode on whether influencers are right for your business or not and how to work with them. But one of the best websites that we use, we don't work with influencers, but we do like snooping. So socialblade.com, I would say is a really good website to go and have a look at because it will not only tell you, I don't think in this day and age followers make sense. No. I don't think in this day and age, judging an influencer based on how many followers they have makes sense because their engagement is what matters. So, Social Blade really breaks that down and shows you, I guess, under the hood of like, how many comments are they actually getting in proportion to how many followers they have? Are they NAFBOT comments or are they proper comments?

What is their engagement rate like? Because for me as a business, if someone's going to interact with my post or even on you know my personal account I don't care about how many likes it gets I care about how many good engaged comments it gets and I care about how many times people are sending it to their friends yeah like I want you to see my post Jess and think that that's so cool you might not like it because I just whatever you forgot but you're sending it to your friend yeah because you're like oh look at this cool candle like like reaching a whole nother person through the person you touch. Yes, exactly. So, influencer marketing can be good, but we need to approach it with a little bit of caution because I think so many times people and small businesses

put all their eggs in one basket when it comes to influencer marketing. They go, well, if I can get Kendall Jenner to post about my business because I've seen this online, it'll go gangbusters and I'll be successful after that. And that is few and far between. Yeah. And I think it's about resetting expectations as well, because you're totally right. I think, especially for people who have less experience with the influencer content creator industry, there's an assumption that if someone with a lot of followers shows a product, that product will immediately sell out, which is not the case. And it's not always what you're using influencers for either. And you're right, this is probably a whole episode in and of itself, but sometimes it's market awareness.

It's just letting people know that your brand exists. And that is a very valuable thing in and of itself. Conversion is only one element that you might be looking to use an influencer or an influential person for. And I think that having realistic expectations, because a lot of the time, if you are working with influencers, you're paying them money. And the bigger the influence are, those sums of money can become astronomical. And everyone has a right to charge for their work. And I'm the last person to comment here nor there on it. But I think that understanding that just because you're spending that money doesn't necessarily mean you're immediately going to make that money back because you might be investing. It doesn't equal conversion.

Exactly right. And so that's where it's so important to find the right fit and figure out the right type of content and trust the person creating the content that they know their audience. You know, sometimes brands have their, you go, oh, well, I really want this type of video. But the influencer might say, oh, that video isn't really like my normal style. And you say, that's fine. I'm paying you a lot of money. Make the video that I want. And the influencer might go, well, it could go two ways. They might go, okay, not going to work with you. It's not on brand. Or they might go, okay, I'll do what you want. And then the video flops. And it's because you didn't listen to the person who arguably had some expertise in that space. You wanted to

move forward with your idea where maybe you could have just executed that idea on your own page and seen a bit more success and invested a lot less money in it. Yeah, exactly. It's very nuanced. And I feel like we could talk about this forever. We'll do a whole episode on it. We'll do a whole episode on it. I can promise that. I've written it down. But Jess, I know that we have been talking for a while, I want to actually talk about the 555 rule. I feel like this is a really good systematic approach to building and expanding your business network. And it kind of involves identifying five people in five categories, dedicating five minutes to each and nurturing these relationships. It sounds complex, but it's something that we do. And it's something that I

think anyone, whether they are at the start of their business journey or really, really established can do to create a more engaged audience. And it's free. It's free. We love a free plan. So the categories in the 555 rule are existing customers, potential customers, industry influencers, referral partners, and professional development contacts. So Jess, the 555 rule is something that we do at She's On The Money and have always done at She's On The Money because It's kind of like an easy way to make sure that you're always engaging, especially online. So the five categories we just went through, let's start with existing customers. Just how does She's On The Money engage with existing customers every day?

Well, you guys listening would know if you send us a DM on Instagram, we're replying to DM if it shows up because Instagram is sometimes bad about showing us a lot of messages because we get so many. But replying, you know, every day we're definitely replying to more than five, but replying to comments in the Facebook group, putting up polls on our stories to get your feedback on things that we're doing. Those are all ways that we're engaging with you right now who are listening because we value you. Like we understand that you are the bedrock of our business, right? Yeah. And they're not business inquiries that we're replying to. So it's not someone,

you know, inquiring about a product or a service and you categorizing that as ticking the box on this 555 rule. It's not. It's external engagement that has nothing to do with a product sale. So it's like talking to your consumer in your DM about NAF topics. It's building a relationship. It might be commenting on an existing customer's Instagram post. It might be following somebody that you know uses your product and service. Potential customers. How are we talking to them, Jess?

I feel like we do this one a lot through our content. It's, you know, your captions, it's call and response, asking questions so you can take their feedback on board. Maybe you haven't purchased the online course or maybe you haven't listened to the podcast. But if we say to you, hey, what do you want to learn about? You give us an answer. We're taking your feedback on board. And then when that episode or that course comes out, you go, oh my God, they listened to me. That's exactly what I wanted. My idea helped make this happen. And it helps people feel really engaged with whatever you're putting out. And then we've got industry

influencers. So these aren't necessarily big influencers in the market, but they're industry influencers who could actually help you grow your network, right? So we are engaging with these literally in the same way as we do our potential customers. And I think the important thing when you're engaging is we're not pushing a product. Jess, we were saying offline before, we're not commenting, hey, I sell candles, come check them out. What are we doing? What are we doing? Like, I don't know, like, let's pretend for a hot second. I don't know how to engage with, you know, a potential customer. I'm a brand. My Instagram name is Candles in Victoria. Well, it's like how you say on TikTok, you know how all the big brands are commenting just really out of pocket things.

Like you'll see- Oh my gosh, Duolingo. I'm obsessed. Duolingo Shapes is commenting being like, love your shoes, babe. Or like something so random. Like you as Candles in Victoria, as you're seeing an influencer post something and you're going, oh my gosh, it's fire. I love it. you're posting something funny I feel like is when it really works. We are hype on the internet. Yeah you're lifting people up and I think the big thing about this rule is you're thinking about almost like trying to make friends with people like you're not trying to as you said you're not pushing product you're leaving a funny little comment or you're complimenting someone or something or you're saying oh my god like I watched you do this thing five years ago and now

look at you babe I'm so proud. Yeah we are the hype girl online. Completely and so it's finding those people, just making them aware of your brands. Like they see your logo come up. They see your name come up. Candles by Victoria left this really funny comment. That in itself is an exercise in brand awareness. And it's an exercise in putting your name on the radar of these influential people so that maybe they want to go and buy something for you, you know, just for themselves. Maybe they go, oh, that candle looks awesome. Let me just add one to my basket. This is where it's important to understand your tone of voice as well, because your tone of voice here is going to be so important. So we know our tone of voice, but do you know yours? Don't worry,

we have a podcast episode you can go and listen to about tone of voice. But if you were a legal firm, the comments that you're leaving might be very different to a candle company, right? So we need to understand that because just being funny online could get you in a bit of trouble. But do you know who's really funny and I didn't see this coming? Who? Police New South Wales. Oh my God, But whoever is running their socials, you just know, I would bet money, it's a Gen Z queen. It's a thousand percent a Gen Z queen, but the amount of stuff that they comment. So funny.

It's just, it's hilarious. Really funny. And that's built their personal brand too. Like they're leaning into their personal brand and it's got people like us, like the second we're talking about it. Literally the second you said it, I was like, oh my God, I've seen them everywhere. They're so funny. They're literally commenting on influencers posts in hilarious ways.

I remember one of them closer to Easter, they were like talking about, you know, getting out and driving and they're talking about demerit points in their comments. And I'm just like, this is hilarious. But also what an exercise in marketing. I've now remembered that it is double demerits over Easter. Yeah. Geniuses. Now let's talk about referral partners. How are we engaging with these guys, Jess? I think this is one of the few where it's probably a bit more direct. Your referral partners are often your existing customers, or they may be people of influence. And I think that, you know, reaching out and engaging with them, it starts with a soft touch, just like everyone else, liking their content, making sure you follow them,

things like that. And then it might be reaching out into their DMs or if they have an email listed on their page, reaching out to their email and saying, hey, like we saw that you love our candles. We really love the content that you're putting out. Would you be interested in working with us on a referral basis? And sometimes people might say no. Sometimes people might say they'll think about it. Sometimes people will say yes, but I think once you have those referral partners on board, it's also really helpful to provide them with resources. Are you working on a new product that they can help hype up? Are you developing something and they can give you insight and their feedback on it? I think keeping touch with those referral partners in a more businessy way, but

still taking their feedback on board and always, always allowing them to do it in a way that feels authentic to them, I feel like is the best way to do it. And engaging with their content that's not yours either. Just like the industry influences or the existing customers, giving their posts a like, leaving a little comment with some love. Again, it's still getting your name out there in a positive way. If you're engaging, the algorithm often will pick that up and say, oh, this person's really active. Maybe we'll push their content out a bit further. Yes, please. We all want that.

All right. Now let's talk about professional development contacts because I know when I said that. Some people might have glazed over or thought, what the heck? What is this, Victoria? But essentially, these are contacts who can help you grow professionally. People like mentors or coaches or your peers in your industry. How are we engaging these people, Jess? I think a big one is LinkedIn or networking events, places where you can get in touch with these people. Maybe they're doing things in business and you really look up to them. maybe they're sharing their own insights as a thought leader quite like you do and and sharing their tips and tricks maybe you can engage with them that way but I think these relationships are

really about seeking advice and connecting with people who've maybe walked the road that you yourself want to walk but also you have to acknowledge that people don't owe you their time or their information and so I think connecting with these people is largely about maybe initially saying, hey, like I really love what you've done with your candle business and I really admire it. And if you're ever around, you know, I would love to take you out to coffee. And I know that that's, you know, we can feel two ways about the coffee, but, you know, or engaging with the content if they're putting out thought leader content on LinkedIn, just engaging with it, giving your opinion or saying, wow, like this thing that you've put out has really made me reflect on

something that I'm doing. It's again about building connection in the hope that that connection will eventually lead you to some level of mentorship or some level of friendship. That's how I've gained so many friends in this space. Like often people say, V, how do you have so many business owner friends? Like, how do you know these people? Did you grow up with them? The answer is no. I've networked with them. I've reached out. Even if they're somebody that is completely outside of my situation, like they're not money content creators they just own a cool business I think I own a cool business so I reach out and go hey Jess like rogue but like I think you and I would get along if you're ever around I'd love to grab a

coffee and to be honest that network I'm not trying to use them to grow my business but I am using them as kind of that social network yeah because often when you're in the business space your friends genuinely don't understand like they don't get it they say oh well Jess just do it later. For example, Jess, like I am in the situation this week where a span has been thrown into the works and a lot of people might go, well, just call in sick. Don't go to work today. Like you can't do that. But in reality, the buck stops with me. And if I don't go to work tomorrow, Jess, I actually still have to do that work just on another day. So it's kind of about getting it done and getting it done now. And a lot of people, and I'm not saying that this is a good

or a bad thing, but they're just not going to understand. So as your business grows, having people who are going through the same growing pains, having people who are able to empathize with that situation is going to be really powerful. Yeah, I completely agree. And the big one is just support the things that they're doing, support their endeavors. As much as these things that we're outlining, the ultimate goal is to grow your business, grow your reach, grow the number of people that understand who you are and what you're doing. You've also got to give to get. So just support people, be there for others and hope or know that putting good things out into the world means good things will come back to you. 100%. I think the crux of the 5-5-5 rule for me is really

about giving more than you get. Because if you think that you're going to get heaps, like you've got the wrong mindset and your business isn't able to flourish. Completely. I reckon we're done, Jess. I think we've wasted a lot of time chatting to the Business Bible community today and I have adored it. So guys, thank you so much for sticking around. There'll obviously be another Business Bible episode next month, but we'll see you next week on She's on the Money. Bye. The advice shared on She's on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to

buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of MoneySherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289. Thanks for watching!