She's On The Money - How Victoria Devine Went From Money Mess to Millionaire

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Think you're too behind to fix your finances? Victoria Devine was once right where you are. Before she was a best-selling author, business owner and the voice behind Australia’s number one money podcast, Victoria was financially stuck, overwhelmed, and winging it hard. In this episode, Bec puts Victoria in the hot seat to unpack her actual money journey… from the early paydays and panic-spending, to the moment she realised something had to change, and what happened next. Victoria shares:💸 The $40k debt moment that made her go, “OK, something has to change”💸 How ADHD shaped her money habits and the systems that actually helped💸 The mindset shift that completely changed her relationship with money💸 What to do when you’re spiralling or just feel totally stuck💸The one thing she’s seen every financially successful person do If you’ve ever felt behind, like you’re “just not good with money,” or that you’ve already made too many mistakes, this one’s for you. Want to start building wealth? Our Investing Masterclass is now open for enrollments... come join us here! Starts April 1. Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's On The Money, the podcast that reminds you that even the most financially savvy people have made money mistakes. And today we're talking about them. And we're doing something a little different. Victoria is usually the one leading the charge, helping us get our money sorted. What about her journey? Anyone curious about her journey? How did she go from feeling totally overwhelmed by money to becoming the finance expert we all turn to? I'm Bex Syed and as always, I'm joined of course by Victoria Devine, retired financial advisor. It makes you sound like 80 years old. I know. And how else do you explain that though? Retired ex-financial advisor.

I remember when we were trying to pick and it's like oh well how do we refer to you because like I'm not legally allowed to say I'm a financial advisor anymore right do I say x and then you might think I got kicked out of the industry oh true like a criminal like yeah like what did she do why isn't she an advisor anymore and it's like guys I left willingly I sold the business I stepped out to do this so retired just makes it sound a little bit nicer oh that's true actually I think. But she's not only that. But I do sound 80. Oh, you do sound 80. That's true. That's true. But that's okay. Cause a lot of my money habits and like my personality traits are that of a senior citizen. So that's okay. Well, checks out actually. VD is not only a

retired financial advisor, but also bestselling author, number one money podcast host, business owner. And the reason we all know what an emergency fund is. Oh, that's very sweet. You didn't have to intro me like that. Well, sorry, but we got to be celebrating you today. I'm not going to lie. I'm really nervous. Are you nervous? Yeah, it's never about me. Like it's funny because I can podcast till the cows come home and talk about money and like my advice and like it's like my subject matter. Yeah. Topic, right? But the second you turn the tables and go, can you talk about you? I'm like, oh, you like kind of fumble a little bit. I'm like, oh. Totally. And the lights in these studios are just like. They're not helping. No, I totally get it. Usually we're

just talking about you by proxy. Yeah, exactly. But this is all eyes on you. So if it's okay, I'm just going to like run through a Q&A with you. Oh, I am nervous, but let's go. Okay. So first question I have, you've helped so many people rewrite their money story, but I want to know what was your earliest memory of money and like, was it something you were aware of growing up or did it not seem like a big deal at the time? I have a few early memories of money. So I grew up in Tasmania and we used to go down or up to this beach called Green's Beach and very family friendly at the time. Like it just had one general store and that was it. And the general store sold petrol, it sold golf balls, it had a fish and chip counter, it had all the lollies, like did

everything. I love those. And I remember when I was younger, my parents used to give us, like we would, we would be let loose. Like this was acceptable at the time. We'd go out onto the rock pools like down at the beach and like hang around there me and my older cousins and then we would go to the general store with our gold coins and we get hot chips with extra chicken salt and then we would take them back to the beach and I remember that was really cool because at the time gold coins felt like lots of money yeah like they weren't silver coins they were gold yes there's something so like yeah you're invincible when you have a gold coin and like that was so cool but I always remember feeling a little bit like oh I really want the chippies for when we're at the

beach but I don't want to ask mum and dad for the money because I always felt like that was a bit like at the time and I don't know where this came from you shouldn't ask for money like you shouldn't ask for it but I mean as I got older I definitely asked for it and then another moment that I have that's in my brain that you know I would say is maybe a negative association with money, again, it was about asking for money from my parents, was when I was younger and I was probably in like maybe grade two or three at school. And I came home and my mum used to get a little bit grumpy at me when I didn't give her the forms that I got at school. Like they'd just sit in the bottom of my school bag for ages. And some of them was genuinely because I forgot,

but other times it was because I didn't want to give it to her because it was like, oh, we need to like do, I don't know how much it was. Cause like, I never remember, but like maybe it was like $20 for like a school excursion or something. And I used to just get the ick even in grade two about pulling it out and being like, oh, mom and dad, like I need money for this excursion. Like it just never felt comfortable. And that might just be me or it might just be, you know, how I've grown up around money. I don't know, but that's, yeah, I would say two of my earliest memories around like money. You sound like a dream child. I feel like I was constantly, even though we were like perpetually broke, I was constantly asking for money. I just had no

concept of how it worked. Yeah. But I think that comes from like, and that's so fine. Like it's not a good or a bad thing, but I think I could tell in a way that money at the time might have been stressful. Yeah. It definitely had some significance. Like I couldn't tell you what was going on or why, but I knew that it would add pressure. And I just remember that feeling of not wanting to add pressure. That is so sweet. I don't know. Yeah, no, that's fair. Okay. I have another question if you're ready. I feel like I should have been given these questions in advance. I could have prepared, but here we are. Yeah, no, that's true. Sometimes it's better to just like answer. YOLO. I mean, you're just getting it raw. I mean, that's what you probably want

anyway, isn't it? That's what I want. I want it raw. What's the most valuable money habit or belief you picked up early in life that still makes sense today. I like that you've said still makes sense. Yeah. Because it doesn't mean I did it, but I was taught this from a young age. Also, it's kind of a pun. Yeah. My dad was a accountant or is an accountant. I don't know if you ever stopped being an accountant. And growing up, he always said, always save the first 5% of your paycheck and pretend you don't have it. Because if you start that habit early, you will always not have that money and you can always just save it. And as your income increases, that 5% goes from being like $4 to $40 and like that will increase. And that's always stuck with me because

it's kind of about this idea of paying yourself first. And he used to like drum that into us. Like when I got my first job, he was like, okay, make sure that you're saving. Did I do it though, Bec? No, no. So like that is a money lesson that I have had with me for a long time that potentially I didn't actually implement. Sure. Is that answering the question? No, absolutely. Because I can't think of something that I'm like, yeah, I've always been good at money. And I used to do that. Like I haven't been good at money. Sure. Like I am now. And I think that that comes down to two things. One, obviously discovering my money story, being able to get on top of it, being able to have these open, honest conversations and like being comfortable getting on top of it.

But also honestly, having a little bit more of it, like having the cash flow to support the lifestyle, because I genuinely don't know what would happen if I was earning the income that I used to earn, whether I would have at some point succumbed to being like, look, I really want to do this other thing and gone into personal debt or something just because that's like, that's my personality. Like it's inherent in who I am to be relatively impulsive. If that makes sense. So I don't want to say to people, I'm perfect. And now like I've recovered from being in debt and you know, I'm not in debt anymore. And I am, you know, the Holy grail of savings and money. Like I get that that's what I share, but I also think that we need to remember that I'm just a

girl. Like I am impulsive. Like I can resonate with a lot of things when people like, I'm in after pay debt. I'd be like, okay, well I've never been in after pay debt, but I fully understand that if I was in that financial position and I still wanted that stuff do you know what come midnight and I'm still on my phone maybe I would have given it a crack like yeah yeah exactly I am you totally also I feel like there's like something in when you've been in debt and you get out of it and the fear of it's so scary it makes me feel sick totally same even if I get like a debit success email because my anytime fitness thing didn't work I get stressed anxious yeah yeah like I do the same thing in the office. Like it's funny. I actually got a call yesterday

because I missed an invoice. Yeah. And it was for like $200. It wasn't like a, it was a business invoice. I just, it was for my, I'm completely transparent. It was for my accountant because I have lots of different entities. I have lots of different fees that I pay for different things. And like, honestly, I just missed it. And the lady called me and I, I won't say I freaked out, but I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like, just like, oh, it's just 200 bucks. I'm just following up on, you know, the invoicing. You're like, you know, you don't usually miss any of them. And like context, I pay tens of thousands of dollars a year in accounting fees. That's just part and parcel of running businesses,

having what we do. Right. And so this $200 shouldn't have been an issue. I felt sick. I immediately am talking across the room to Zara and I was like, Zara, can you please look at my emails? Like, can you please find it? I can't seem to find it because I was frazzled looking my emails, trying to find this invoice that I hadn't paid. And I was like, it's in there. Can you please look it up? And then, you know, she couldn't open it on her computer because it had timed out. And I'm like, well, email them, email them and find out what it was. Like I was just so, and I'm like, can you pay it now? And she's like, yeah, I think I can pay it now. I was like, yep, do that, do that. Like, I just hate the idea that I would owe somebody money. Like I won't say

that that's trauma, but it can sometimes feel that way. Yeah, no, I totally get that. There are lots of people that have a lot worse things going on, but it's like, it triggers that fight or flight in you because you know. You know that feeling you've been there before. Yeah I felt sick and could I afford it? Yeah like I can I can afford and that's so nice now and but I think in those moments you forget where you've been and what you've come from and you just go oh my god I owe someone money and I didn't transfer it oh no like I genuinely was real frazzled. Oh my god I completely get that it's so relatable. Okay my next question for you when you first started making your own money, how did you handle it? So my first job was working at an ice cream shop

on the Mornington Peninsula. I thought it was the coolest job ever. Weird boss, who now I look back, you shouldn't have been managing people, but okay. I would say poorly, but I had a good time. Nice. Poorly, but I had a good time. Like I was young, I was 14 years and nine months. I had some income coming in I didn't know at all what superannuation was I didn't know how tax worked and at the time I don't think I cared because I think once I learned that it got taken out before I got my money I was like whatever like I don't I don't care I would save up my money and the closest big shopping area was Frankston at the time and if I was lucky mum would let me

catch the bus after school to Frankston with a couple of my girlfriends where we would go to Seprey and look at all of the stuff at Seprey and get our pink tote bags. And I remember the headbands. I think they were like $4.99. Like the really skinny headbands with the bows. Do you remember them? They were made of elastic. I had so many of them. I at the time really liked the slogan t-shirts there because they had like I don't know weird slogans on like semi-tight t-shirts yeah yeah yeah I think I remember that and I've always been into clothes and fashion and stuff and then there was this other store I can't remember what it was called and I wish I could but it was like I want to say Joanne Lee or something like that yeah but it sold all do

you remember the brand face off like they did like face off jeans it sounds familiar they weren't super expensive, but for me at the time, they definitely felt it. And all the cool girls wore those jeans, that real low rise, like sometimes a bit of a flair moment. And so I spent my money on that. I would spend my money at McDonald's. So my friends and I would go to McDonald's after school. Oh yeah. And at the time I remember like it was a $4 meal deal. Like it was a chicken and cheeseburger, a small chips, a small Coke and a sundae for $4. Oh my God. Bargain. I know, right? Good deal. So we'd go do that. I used to go to the movies a lot. Like that was always like a good activity. Growing up on the peninsula, there wasn't a lot of activities you could do

after school or like around. No, Rosebud Village. Yep. Go down to the plaza. So all of my money, honestly, it wasn't on big things. Like I can't ever remember going, oh, I saved up all of my money and spent it on X. I remember at one point my parents matched me because they really wanted to promote my savings and I got an iPod mini. Oh, cute. The hot pink iPod mini. So I would say that was probably the biggest thing at the time that I had saved for, but all my money just went because like at the time, maybe I was earning like 50 to a hundred dollars a week with my part-time job, like max. Yeah. But all of that in a week would go on like, you know, little accessories and stuff at Supray and going out for, you know, after school things with my friends to McDonald's.

and the movies and just gone, just gone. So was I good at money? No, but I was just enjoying my teenagehood, I suppose. Absolutely, you were just a tiny baby. Yeah. You want to enjoy the finer things. Yeah, the finer things being a McDonald's chicken and cheeseburger for the meal deal.

I would argue those are still the finer things. Yeah. Do you know what? If that was still $4, like that was a good deal. Oh, I'd be eating pills. I feel like sometimes it is $4. Like I feel like they haven't changed their prices that much. Oh, maybe not including the Sunday.

Yeah, the sundae was like the literal cherry on top. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I actually am curious about what flavoured sundae you go for. I know it's one of the- Oh, caramel, always. I viscerally, like in my gut, I knew you were going to say caramel. Yeah, you did.

But I was like, that's outrageous. Do you know what Jessica Ricci picks? She's strawberry. She's strawberry. Oh my God. You saw that coming. It's like I didn't even know you guys. Yeah, it's like you're inside our brains.

Yeah. Okay, before you had your money sorted, what was life actually like? what were the biggest money headaches for you back then? So I moved out of home when I was 18 and I moved out because I wanted to go to university and I lived on the Mornington Peninsula. And at that point, the big freeway hadn't been built yet. Oh, the pen link. No, no. Peninsula link wasn't a thing yet. So to get from my house, like where I lived with my parents, which I definitely could have stayed in, like they were very generous to get to the city was about an hour and a half. Right. And I really wanted to go to university. And so made the

decision to move out. And I moved out with a couple of housemates, just people I went to school with at the time. We got an apartment in South Bank. And I think my biggest struggles were rent and food and managing all of that. I just remember the rude shock of having to pay for everything that I hadn't really thought about before. Yeah. And like, I mean, it's not like it is today. things were much cheaper like olive oil was just olive oil it wasn't liquid gold but having to buy those like household items like washing machine liquid and you know at the time vacuum cleaner bags oh yeah vacuum cleaner bags were a thing I remember being like what the hell like this is full and then realizing that they were actually super expensive and then I remember spending like

a whole afternoon pulling all of the junk out of the vacuum cleaner bag so I could reuse it. And so yeah, money wasn't in abundance, but I also worked really hard. So like I'll give myself credit for working really hard. So while I was at university, I was working like three jobs. I was working at least 40 hours a week. But even though I had that income coming in, I can't tell you where it went like it went on my lifestyle it went on you know city paying for clothes paying for shoes like I always was and I would say still I'm well dressed but to a downfall at that point in time so you would have looked at me and been like oh she has her stuff together as a first year uni student but like I was living very week to week was I ever in you know serious significant

financial struggles, no. And like, I've always had, I want to call it the bank of mom and dad, but you know, my parents aren't so well off that I could just call them. That wasn't ever a comfortable call, but there were definitely a few times where I was like, um, do you think I can borrow a hundred dollars or can you please help me here or there? And I'm so grateful for that help, but it would be amiss to not mention that I had that in the background. But I think having that meant I felt safe not to be responsible. Yeah. If that makes sense. Like I didn't feel like I ever had to worry about an emergency fund. Cause like at the end of the day, yeah, it's uncomfortable, but I could call my mom. Like at the end of the day I could X, Y, Z. So I always

kind of had that fail safe. Yeah. And like, it felt icky. Like I never liked it, but it definitely was something that I, yeah. Nice to have the back of your head. Yeah, totally. And I think we need talk about that because so many of us end up in a situation that we're not super proud of but like we just don't really know how we got there and like I know how I got there but yeah my entire journey was I would say comfortable but like first year university I was working three jobs I was working two hospitality jobs and a retail job on a Saturday because I wanted double and a half time rates. So I didn't have much free time. And then in between all of that, I would actually do like sessional swim teaching in the mornings and stuff before uni sometimes. But yeah, so I had income

coming in, but I would say that even with all of that work, it was at the time minimum wage. And I think my tax returns probably said it would be between $25,000 and $30,000. Wow. Yeah. So not mass amounts. I see. Yeah. Okay. Now I want to know, was there a specific moment where you were like, no, this isn't working for me. I need to sort this out. Or was it like a process? It wasn't early on. It wasn't at uni or whatever. It was definitely once I got my first full-time job. So when I got my first full-time job, I had finished two degrees and had just started kind of like dabbling whether I would do like a master's degree or not. I did a lot of like graduate interviews. Cause I really wanted to work in organizational psychology and I was dabbling in

like, you know, interviewing at Deloitte and doing all these other things. And then I got offered the role that I got offered, which was not a graduate position. It was a consultant role. And like, I thought I'd hit the jackpot because like, that was like the step above graduate. And I felt like I could turbocharge, if that makes sense. Like I jumped something, like it was like snakes and ladders and I'd hit a ladder and I jumped up and I remember my, and I found it the other day because I was talking to one of the teammates and I was like, I reckon this is in my email, like my first employment contract. And it was $55,000 a year, including super. Yeah. Okay.

And I felt rich. Like I genuinely felt like that. It was the most amount of money I'd ever earned in my entire life. But I think that dynamic change of not being a grad, not having other grads around me, I went straight into the big swimming pool of the consultants who were in their mid thirties, forties. And I saw them and I thought they were doing so well. And I did definitely play into, and this is only in retrospect, I didn't know I was doing it at the time, play into that, like keeping up with the Joneses mentality of like, they have really nice suits. I really probably should get a nice suit. And like the stuff that I was wearing at the time, I would mainly shop at like Portman's and I would go to like Zara and then like match it with like

cute Kmart tops and singlets. So like I was good at finding stuff, but then I'd see people in like shinier suits and I'd be like, oh, I really probably should invest in a really good suit. And I've said this before. And I think that's because that's my big purchase. That was kind of pivotal. Like it was kind of like a, it made me feel so good. Like I bought this suit. It was navy blue. I bought the skirt and the pants of it that matched the jacket because the jacket was so expensive. I was like, I need to get like maximum wear out of this. And it was from Saba and it probably cost me like $600. Right. And at the time that's an astronomical amount of money. Oh yeah. But also in comparison to that salary, like that's not, I don't know, I look back and I go

Victoria divine. Like that was very irresponsible. I don't regret it because I did feel really good and it gave me a lot of confidence. So like you've got to weigh up the pros and cons, but yeah, I think for me that was the downfall of it. At that point I was still functioning completely in cash. So I paid cash for that off my debit card. But after that, I remember replying for a $500 credit card and I got that. And then I remember pushing that up to a thousand dollars. And then because it was like the start and I mentioned just before I was thinking about doing my master's. I then enrolled in a master's of business administration. So I did my MBA and as a part of that program, I think it was maybe like almost 12 months after I started my

full-time gig, I got the opportunity to do like a secondment semester in France. Cool. Right. Very cool. And that was only offered if you like met certain criteria and had like certain grades and whatever. And I was like so excited and like I'd applied for it. I think kind of not assuming I would get in. And then when I got in, it was like this mad scramble of, I really want to go, but I can't afford to go. And there's no way, like this isn't a hundred dollars for a mom and dad. Like I'd done my maths to like study abroad. I was going to have to take leave without pay. Like, what do I do about the house that I live in? Like, do I keep my rent or

not? Do I, you know, like there was a lot of questions. How was I going to afford accommodation overseas as well as like living expenses and not being able to work like how do we work that out and then on top of that it was in my head I'm like well I haven't really traveled properly before this should I also do a holiday on top of that and then you know the conversation of a personal loan came into it and I decided okay well I could just get a loan for this and I can deal with all of this later and I ended up getting a personal loan and at the same time my car was dying yeah So I had all of these big expenses and I needed a new car. And in retrospect, like, you know, when you look back on things and you're like, I should have done that so differently. Like,

what are you doing? But it all made sense at the time. I needed a new car. I needed to go to France. I also wanted to add on a bit of a holiday. Yeah. Ultimately I took out a $40,000 personal loan and I wish I didn't. Do I regret going to France and doing the things that I did? No, absolutely not. Like I had the best time. I made some incredible friends. I have these beautiful memories. I don't regret it. But when I say I regret the debt, it's not because I regret the things I spent it on. Yes, I've got literally nothing to show for it, but I really feel the pressure that I was under when I returned home was so immense that it impacted my mental health and like how I felt and how I couldn't sleep. And it made me not eat and like all of these

other things. Like I just, I didn't know how I was coming up with that $883 every single month to pay that debt off. Yeah. Jeez. And like the idea that I was paying that off, but like the debt never went down. Like that was the minimum. And like, when am I going to get out of this? Is this forever? And then like you extrapolated out and I was recently single. I'd come out of a very long-term relationship. The boyfriend that I had had before I went, I was in a relationship with for seven and a half years. Oh, wow. And I think it was all of that combined. I was like, no, I deserve this. I'm going to do something for me. And I took out this really big loan and then I just couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. I couldn't do literally anything. It was, I would say,

crippling. Oh yeah. And like, if you've never been in debt, you don't get it. Yes. You don't get it. And it's like, you've done something wrong and you're up at 3am just ruminating on it. Like, it's that feeling of like, what am I going to do? How am I going to do it? And like everything's at 3am, but like, that's when you wake up and think about it. So I was having really bad sleep. I wasn't performing well at work. I was just anxious all the time, but also still wanting to keep up with my friends. Oh man. So my friends didn't know I was in that debt. No. And they'd be like, do you want to go out for dumplings? Of course I do. Yeah. What do you do in those situations. I know. I know. I completely get it. And I've obviously, as you know, have been there.

Okay. VD, I'm going to give you like a few moments to just reset and let's go to a quick break. On the flip side, I'm going to ask you some more questions, but I do understand the anxiety around talking about debt. So I'm like, I'll let you have a little sit. Well, thankfully I'm not feeling anxious now, but at the time, oh my goodness. Oh my God. I totally get it. Okay. We'll be right back. welcome back everyone how are you feeling oh I'm fine yeah I'm fine it's interesting I'm like I want to share this but how do I articulate myself oh don't worry about that no but I want to give you like all of the like oh and I was doing this and like oh this added to it and like I was going out of a relationship and I think we can all relate to like yeah coming out like I

wanted to treat myself like I don't know absolutely it's also like triggering memories for me and I'm like oh and oh and so this is probably a really disjointed podcast so I do apologize well I'm enjoying it personally okay okay so you've had your oh my god I need to fix this moment you've made the first move but then what did things finally start falling into place it was like a total mess before it got better when you got out of debt or when you were working out did it just all you woke up one day and it fell into place back personally god no I'm still on a journey seven, eight years later. Exactly. And I don't think there's ever a, it's going to fall into place moment. Yeah. I think I just had this realization. It was when one of my best friends

shared with me her savings goal. I remember I was at brunch and it was an expensive brunch and I was picking the cheapest thing off the menu at the time. And I remember her talking about wanting to do like, I can't even remember what it was. Like the thing that sits in my head I could tell you exactly the table we were sitting at, at brunch and where we were. I can't remember what her savings goal was for, but I remember being shocked that she had savings. Like I remember being like, wait, what? You're not like me. I lived with this girlfriend. Like she was my housemate at the time. Yeah. And I remember being like, sorry, what? What? Like you have savings? I thought we were both like, I knew that I had debt and I hadn't told anybody about that. And I don't think

I assumed she had debt, but I didn't think she had the capacity to save because we had not the same jobs, but similar jobs. Like, what do you mean? What do you, what? And I think that was a very, like, for me, it was very confronting because we had very similar incomes. And what do you mean you have a whole heap of savings and you're going to go to Europe and, or, you know, like that feeling of, oh, okay. And so for me, that was a bit of an eye opening. Like I probably should work on debt. I didn't immediately start getting out of debt, but I was really seriously going, I need to do something about this. And so at the time I did not believe that I could get out of debt on my own. I was Googling, what does it mean to go bankrupt? And that doesn't mean that

I was in that exact situation, but I didn't know anything about money. I was Googling, what does it mean to go bankrupt? How would that impact me? Like at the time I didn't have, you know, a business or anything like that. And I was working in this organizational psychology role in a consulting space. And like, I knew that financial advisors existed because like some of our clients were financial advisors. And so I was like, okay, maybe I'll go see an advisor. And I did all my research and I went and saw a financial advisor and he was at the time lovely, but then he's like, okay, like, let's put it on a whiteboard. How much debt have you got? and I felt really judged but I told him and he put it on the whiteboard and like drew up some

things and basically told me that like I wasn't a good client for him ah that's nice yeah and I was kind of there going oh like I was happy to spend money to have a plan to get out of debt because I just didn't I couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel I didn't know what to look up I didn't know like I thought this was going to be the thing that solved it for me and I walked away from that meeting feeling like trash. I felt like I'd wasted his time. I felt like, and at the time I did feel like I'd wasted his time. Like I wasn't in this, oh my God, what a rude person. Like I felt awful. And so yeah, that all happened. And then I was like, well, maybe no one's going to save me. Like maybe I have to do this myself. And I started like looking things up on YouTube and

like, you know, I learned about the snowball method versus the avalanche method. And I was like, oh my God, there are all these people like the debt-free community and they're talking about it. And then, you know, there was a whole heap of other stuff going on in my work life where I was seconded to a financial advice business and I was doing some engagement work for them. And I realized that their work was way cooler than mine. Like mine was about impact, right? Like I was driving engagement and I could like sort of measure that, but like they were like sitting clients down and showing them like these plans. And I love a plan. I'm so type A, like I love having a plan and I can show a client where I'm getting that from. And I could see that their clients were really happy.

And I kind of wanted to learn more about that. So originally it wasn't necessarily about getting myself out of debt, but I kind of put the two and two together again in hindsight and was really interested in that because I think it benefited me at the time. And then when I realized, okay, you can create a plan. Okay. I can't just keep paying this $883 off every single month and think I'm getting ahead. I need to create a plan where I can pay off some more. I was considering things like weekend work and like, you know, trying to work that out. And then, yeah, I think that was my moment of working out what I needed to do. And I think that realization that I couldn't just pay off the minimum and that would be okay. I had to actually throw a lot more at it. Yeah. That was

confronting and hard and I still wasn't out of debt. Like, no, of course it did feel like I was in a bit more control. Yeah. Yeah. So at some point VD took the leap and kind of like turned in to finance, which is so funny. Cause I feel like finance at that time was maybe like a bit anxiety inducing. Oh, it was, but I genuinely felt like by helping other people, I felt more in control of my money because it was forcing me to walk the walk. That makes sense. Like still nobody knew about my debt I hadn't told anybody like this was still very like secret squirrel like I was very ashamed of this this wasn't something that had you asked me if I had debt Beck I think I would have lied to you yeah that's so fair like am I proud of that no but yeah I think

I would have lied to you yeah like I think I would have been like no I don't know what you're talking about oh absolutely because there's such a stigma around just like gay kid girl boss yeah there is a stigma, which we are trying to change every single day. Absolutely we are. But like, how do I change it if I'm not going to be honest about it? I know, that's it. But no, so you took the leap. And I wonder like, if there's someone listening to this, they were thinking about making a big career change, what's the best advice you've got for them? Make a plan. So I took the leap for a plethora of different reasons. Like I wasn't feeling like the engagement stuff was as nourishing as it could be. I wasn't saying things like that though. I was just not feeling

comfy with it. And I was like, you know, peeping across the fence being like, what are other people doing on their job? Looks really interesting. And like, I did have the privilege of like that secondment. So I could see what other people were doing literally in the office I was in. And I was like, I could definitely do that. And I took the leap into finance, but it wasn't, you know, an uncalculated risk. Ultimately I, so the first role I took in finance was for someone else and I was managing their HR and like recruitment and engagement stuff inside a financial advice business. And that was agreed upon because I really wanted to be in financial advice, but obviously I wasn't an advisor. And while I was helping with that, I was studying to become

a financial advisor and I was finishing off my MBA at the same time. So I was doing all of that. And I think because I was doing my MBA, which is a master's of business administration, it was a lot about running a business and operating a business. Cause I kind of knew that's what I wanted to do. Like winding back, I had at the time, the opportunity to do my masters of organizational psychology or my masters of business administration. And I was actually working in that consulting role that meant I probably didn't need my masters of org psych because like I was already in the space working. So like, why would I go and get the degree that would let me get that job when I already had the job. So I kind of decided that the MBA would make

sense. And through that, learned a lot about managing a business, what that would look like. And I think that pushed me into going, no, you really do want your own business at some point. So yeah, one thing led to another. And I knew that once I became a financial advisor, I didn't want to be a financial advisor that just worked for someone else. I wanted to be a financial advisor that had her own business. And so I think from the get go, there was a lot of research into, well, what does that look like? How much does that cost? And like, I wasn't able to do that immediately. Like I was working for another financial advisory practice at the same time as like building this up. But that was all very transparent, I think, because I've always

been quite headstrong. If I want something, like I'm not going to skirt around it. I'm going to be like, hey, Bex, I was thinking this is like ultimately what I want to achieve. But obviously, I can't do that right now. Do you reckon we could do A, B, C, D and E? Sure. And that's what happened. That is so cool. And I think you've just got to ask. Yeah. Like, and if you want to make a really big career change, make a plan. Like, yes, you might have to take two steps backwards, but like ultimately it might shotgun you forward. Absolutely. And you're climbing a ladder that you want to climb. Snakes and ladders, baby. Exactly. When you started making more money, how did you keep yourself from slipping into old habits and letting lifestyle creep take over?

I didn't. Good. When I started making more money, I was contributing more to my debt. But at the time, my debt honestly felt like a burden still. Like I was just like, I didn't want to be putting money towards it. I didn't see it in the way that I see debt now. Like if you're in personal debt and you said to me, V, what do I do? I'm like, okay, cool. Like let's make a plan. And everything that you're paying off your debt back, like that's you proving to yourself that that is one day what your savings will be. Yeah. Like I didn't see it that way. And I wish that I had someone that like was like, Hey, like this is actually really good habit setting and like, look at what you could do into the future. I didn't see it that way. So was I amazing at money? No, I think I was still very

much living week to week. I did start saving some money though. Should I have been saving while having debt? No, but I'm not going to lie. That made me feel really financially secure. are. And so ultimately, once I, you know, learned a lot more about finance and, you know, I'm working in this financial advice space, it's kind of like the plumber that has a leaky tap just because I knew the right thing to do did not mean I was doing it. Right. I knew that I probably shouldn't be sitting on a whole heap of savings when I had debt, because if you have debt and you have savings, you don't have savings. So ultimately I did end up transferring most of that to my debt to pay it off and keeping like a little emergency fund because I thought that was really important

and the reason that was so important to me was I wasn't like buying into that debt cycle anymore like whenever something popped up I had the cash for it and I didn't have to like put it back on my personal loan or I didn't have to put it on a credit card and like I remember learning about this like snowball and avalanche method and stuff and I was like okay cool you know what I'm going to do this month I'm going to do minimum repayments on my personal loan and I'm actually just for the next two months or however long I can't remember how long it took me I'm going to pay off that credit card because the credit card wasn't massive but it was a lot and then I closed it and I remember being like oh my god I now only have one debt like that felt so good yeah and so I

think that for me was like that I started being a little bit more aggressive and I started seeing cash that was coming in as an opportunity to get out of debt sooner as opposed to oh yeah I can treat myself, but it was hard to change that mindset. And even once I got out of debt, I won't say that I was incredible at money management. I remember being like, Hey, hold on, hold on, hold on. I've been out of debt for like six months and I've got nothing to show for it. And that's that point where I had to sit down and go, I need to create a money management system because ultimately I can't be trusted. Like I have ADHD. I'm incredibly impulsive. I've known that about myself since I was 18, 19. I've been medicated since then. So I'm not, you know,

someone who got a late diagnosis, but I didn't know how that impacted my money. Like at the time, you just don't know what you don't know. And like, I still had that stigma in my head that I was that boisterous boy in grade two, who's swinging on their chair and being told to like sit down and stop yelling in class. Like that was my idea of what ADHD was, even though I'd been diagnosed with it and had been told outright it manifests differently in women. I was like, yeah, cool. You should say that to make me feel better about this. Like who knows? So yeah, I wasn't good at it. And it wasn't until I created a money management system where I was like, okay, cool. I'm going to automate this and do this. And every single week I'm going to transfer this to

this. Like it wasn't until then that I actually started getting quote good at money. Right. Right. And that was after I realized that just being out of debt didn't make me good at money, which was annoying. Oh yeah. That's a really awful realization. I was like rude. Like I got out of debt though. What do you mean? Shouldn't it be done now? Like this is it. We're done. I should be rich now. Exactly. Exactly. So you've seen so many people's finance up close. Yes. Lucky. What's one thing that all financially successful people seem to do differently? Financially successful. Like we're talking, do you want to know about like the rich people? Is that what you're talking about? Are you just talking about people who are just like good

at managing money. We can talk about both. I think it's really just people that are good at managing finances and they're just like comfortably wealthy. I'm not too fussed on them. Yeah. So comfortably wealthy. And I've had the privilege of working with some incredibly wealthy people. Like I have, I used to work in the ultra high net wealth space. So minimum of $10 million investable. And I have had two clients in my time who have been billionaires. And so have I experienced wealth yes I think that's a lot of the reason why I just don't I don't want that I don't want to be a billionaire but what they have in common is they pay themselves first yeah so they are creating a plan and they're not all doing this in exactly the same way but in a

roundabout way they're doing this they are you know going okay cool like I need to said like I need to put money aside for rent I need to put money aside for bills you know they're talking about their savings just as like a bill. Like they just go and savings, we have to put aside X. Like they don't really think about it in the same way that I was historically thinking about it. Cause in my head, savings is just money I put aside for other stuff I want. Exactly. Exactly. Or it's optional. Yeah. It's optional. No, they don't see it as optional. That's just part of this system. Yeah. And then they can play with whatever's left, but it was always a whatever's left. And that system, I would say works for the billionaires and the people who have so much money,

they don't know what to do with it. But also it was working for like my housemate who had savings at uni and we were on the same system. She was just like automating it and putting the money aside and pretending it wasn't there. And I just didn't comprehend that that was an option. and I also don't think with my impulsivity I had the ability to see savings as not accessible yes yes yeah but I want it and in my head I can see that and that's gonna get me the thing that I want yeah and I'm not really yeah that's my money for myself exactly and you've kind of got blinkers on about what the bigger picture looks like yeah and so for me getting serious about money meant I had to create a plan that worked with my impulsivity. And that was about automation

and, you know, having two separate banks, not just two separate bank accounts, but my savings went to a different bank. So when I logged in to see my everyday spending account, I couldn't see my savings account because sometimes I would see it and be like, oh, opportunities. Like, do you know what I mean? Like I just needed to not be able to see it. And that helped. But there's like, yeah, I would say that they're paying themselves first. So whether that is a business owner and they're just like making sure everything is going really smoothly and they are investing in their business before they're paying themselves. Or if it's, you know, my old housemate who, you know, would just act like savings were just part and parcel of her bill system. That to me was

revolutionary. And now looking back, I'm like, they all have this ability to put their money in a system that works for them as opposed to, you know, money came into my account and I see a lot of myself in you because like, I think you and I are on the same page about, you know, we're at different points in our journey, but like you say things and I'm like, I get it back because that's me, like, or it was me. Or, you know, I said before, like a lot of my, I wouldn't say a lot of my success, but I'm very grateful to have a high income now because I still am a little bit impulsive. And I think that that could maybe get me in a little bit of trouble, which is why I try so hard to have such a strict system. Like I do have a certain amount that I

pay myself every single week that I know I can quote, play with. Because if I don't have that, girl, I'm going in our savings. I'll say sorry later. Like. I just, I need to have a system. Yeah. You can always put double savings next time. Well, we tell ourselves that, but I've never actually done that. No, same. It's yet to happen. We should talk about that too, because it's just so hard. Like money is hard. It's not easy. And even though we've got more of it, like it just becomes more complex.

Oh yeah. And it's getting harder. The cost of living is getting... Oh, don't even start me. Like, oh. But that's a story for another time. It is. Okay, VD, last question. Looking back at everything you've learned, what's one change or decision you've made with money that has had the biggest impact on your life?

Mindset. Mindset. So fluffy. Mindset. But changing the way I viewed money changed everything. like it wasn't a system or a process or a budgeting app like I feel like so many people and I love it because you all want change right like when people are reaching out to me and they say V what's your favorite budgeting app I need to get my stuff together it's like that's not what you need what you need is a mindset shift you need to see money as a tool like we need to

take emotion out of money because like I was so covered in shame about my money and you know I would literally I can't remember anybody actually asking me are you in debt but I just know I would have lied to you like you know what I mean like that sounds terrible but it's true and I think it was just changing this mindset around money is just a tool and giving myself permission to just accept that and you know changing this idea that I was bad at money because I wasn't bad at money I just spent more than I'd earned that was it I just spent more money than I had earned and I needed to fix that and get into a better state of equilibrium. And I needed to put myself ahead. And the way to do that was to just see it as a tool. And it's so hard to see money as a tool

because it is inherently emotional. And I think that's where a lot of, you know, I was able to fix or change my money story because it was a marriage of finance habits and psychology. And just through luck and through my experience, I had the psychology background. And then I also was learning about these money things and realizing that if I didn't change my approach, it wasn't going to happen. So I think, yeah, for me, it's all about mindset and I can't say, oh, this is the right mindset because there's no right money mindset. But being able to understand where I came from, why my money story was my money story, what I felt about money, Why did it make me feel icky? Like how did all of that work? Understanding that. And then also

going, okay, cool. It's just a tool. How am I using this? How am I making every single dollar that comes into my account work for me? And now that looks so different, right? Now I'm, you know, a more progressed, like baby Victoria would never have seen this coming, but like me talking to my husband all about, oh, okay, well, what was our like rate on our offset? What did that look like? Okay, cool. We're going to put everything in that offset and like move it to here to do this. And like, we're talking about investments and like, that's just not how I thought my life would be. But all of that starts with like small money management. It starts with having a budget. It starts with having a cashflow. It starts with, yeah, small steps in the right

direction. I love that V, you've really motivated me. Cause I'm like, it's so nice. I think if you're kind of like me and you have never really had money and you still don't really know how to manage money you're still kind of like perpetually broke it seems and then you hear other people throwing you're like oh you're not that different it's like okay we're I'm not like trying to achieve something that's completely impossible for someone that no like I was born differently yeah no and it's still something like impulsivity I struggle with still yeah like at the end of the day like yes I have more money yes I have a successful business and I'm not saying that that was luck like I have worked so hard and I still work so hard and it's a struggle every day

not just financially, cause like comfortable financially now, but just like running a business. Like I'm running three of them. Like, what are you doing, Victoria? That's crazy talk. But I think when it comes to the finance side of it, I think a lot of people just assume, oh yeah, she must be really rich now. She must have like lots and lots of income and I'm comfortable for sure. But most of the business stuff goes back into the business. like yes I have a higher income but I'm not living in like a six million dollar property like I'm not do you know what I mean like I'm not I'm not Richard Branson I still am doing a budget with my husband guys yeah yeah that's so comforting to know okay

I feel like it's all we've got time for unfortunately I'm kind of glad because I feel emotionally hungover yeah oh spent absolutely we are done I think the biggest takeaway here is that no one is born good with money. So if you're listening to this and thinking, God, I'm so far behind, just know that even Victoria Devine once had no idea what she was doing. And I think for anyone listening who feels stuck, this is such a good reminder that you don't have to get everything right straight away. You just have to start. I love this. I feel like this has been really fun. And if there are questions off the back of this episode, maybe we can do another one. I don't know how it's going to fall, but we can see. But I think a lot of the conversation

around money is inherently emotional. Like you can listen to 6 million episodes on what the best ETFs are. And that's good for if you're picking an ETF, but if you're just struggling to get started, like sometimes you just want to hear that other people have been in your shoes. And I really don't like the idea that people would just see me as being like high and mighty and, oh, well, she won't get it. Like, girl, I've been there. Like, and I'm working my butt off to make sure I'm never back there again because it's not a nice feeling. Absolutely. But all in all, just be kind to yourself. Some people are really, really not even in a position where they can even start saving right now. They're probably in the negatives. Exactly. And that's okay. But it's not

a reflection of who you are or how good you are as a person. It just means that you're spending more than you're earning. And do you know what? Some people are forced into that right now. Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's not their fault. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean they can't understand budgeting and cash flow and what they want it to look like one day. Exactly. In the meantime, just be learning. Okay. And of course, if you're loving the pod, make sure you're subscribed, leave us a review, do all the good things. You know the drill. V, thank you so much for letting me grill you today. I feel like we're going to have- Thanks for grilling me and being kind. Oh, of course. I feel like we're going to have to do a whole other episode just on how you

actually got out of debt because that would be a juicy one. Yeah. I feel like I need to put a plan together. So let's work on that. And guys, we will see you on Friday for Friday drinks. See you then. Bye. the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision if you do choose to buy a financial product read the pds tmd and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs victoria divine and she's on the money are authorized representatives of money

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