She's On The Money - How you can make money in the sharing economy

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

This week G + V sit down to talk about all things related to the sharing economy. Whether it's Airbnb, ReleaseIt, Glamcorner or Uber - there's now an opportunity for everyone to make some extra cash!The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. One in five Australians are turning to the sharing economy to supplement their income. But what exactly is the sharing economy? How is it transforming the way we live? And importantly, how can it make you money? My name is Georgia King and joining me as she does each and every Wednesday is financial advisor Victoria Devine. V, what exactly is the sharing economy and why

should our listeners care? Because we're doing a whole episode on it, Georgia. So, like, obviously we think it's important, so you should too, because that's what this podcast is for, forcing our opinions on you. No, that's absolutely not correct. This is all about education. There is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to stuff like this. So, the sharing economy, G, is essentially the system that we are all relatively familiar with, but likely haven't given a whole heap of thought to. So, this is a system where individuals get to share goods and services and it's facilitated by some kind of platform or app. So, a popular example of this is Airbnb, where homeowners are able to use an app to let their homes out to strangers or even Uber, where passengers are

connected with drivers and vice versa. And more recently, our Melbourne-based listeners might have noticed the electric scooters that have been popping up around the place. I've seen so many Instagram stories of people riding them. And I kind of like, I don't have a need for that mode of transport at this point in time, but I kind of have FOMO, like I want to go out, find a scooter and have a fun time. Don't you, George? What I would give to see you just like rocking the Gucci on a little scooter on your way to the office. I don't wear Gucci. Are you joking? The Saatchi, you know what I'm saying? Turn it down. Neither of those brands. Wow. But essentially, G, these are examples of products that are part of the sharing economy, which is really cool.

So, why should our listeners care? Because obviously, you've said we all know what it is, but I guess we've never really thought long and hard. Why is this episode interesting? G, because we said it was, but also because you get to save money by utilising the sharing economy. Plus, it's changing our spending behaviours and is impacting the way that we live our lives, which is what we're going to be talking about all today. Amazing. So, how big is the sharing economy exactly, Bea? And is it going to continue to grow? All right. So, it's like really, really, really big. But according to Forbes, the sharing economy is projected to grow globally from $15 billion, which was valued at in 2014,

which is already pretty big, to $335 billion in 2025. Crazy. Massive. Those big numbers. We like that. I feel like this industry or this area, I don't even know if you can call it an industry because it's so diverse. I think it's just going to become ingrained in what we do because it's just so much more flexible and so much more accessible for so many people. But of course, sharing isn't new. It's existed for some time in various ways, shapes or forms. And of course, the advancement of technology over time, especially over the last decade or so, has really played into this. And the fact that a majority of us now have computers quite literally in our hands that connect us and allow us to access systems like this is probably why the

sharing economy is able to thrive. Like, how often do you pick up your phone and you know that you've got the Airbnb app on there? So, you're like, oh, I wonder what it would be like to get an Airbnb in this location over this period of time. Like, you are instantaneously engaging in a sharing economy and the amount of times that I pick up my phone and we're not going to judge me on this, but order Uber Eats and have dinner delivered to my door. Like, guys, I'm single-handedly keeping this sharing economy alive. But it's weird, isn't it? Like, because obviously delivery services existed 15 years ago, but Uber Eats didn't. But it's now so much more convenient. You don't have to talk to anyone. You can just whip up your app. You can look at all of the ranges of food that are

delivering near you. Like, it is so convenient. It's literally the accessibility of it, right? Right. So it's absolutely, as you were saying, it's not new. Like you could always have a pizza delivered. Well, not always, but for as long as I've been alive, I know that we have had pizzas delivered, but like the fish and chip shop didn't deliver. So it was always, I guess, niche to a particular area, but now it's so accessible because we've got other people doing it. It's not just calling up the pizza shop, seeing if they could deliver a pizza. It's now an absolute plethora of different companies and different things that you can have delivered. And gee, you know, recently I had COVID, which was a wild time, but gee, you know, recently I had COVID and that meant

that I could not leave my house. And I was a bit worried about, you know, things that I needed to do and get and organize. And I knew that we had access to Uber Eats, but the amount of things that I could actually access while I was at home, like I even ordered from Chemist Warehouse and it was at my house in three hours. Really? What? Yeah. No, they've partnered with DoorDash. You have to like order from the Chemist Warehouse website. So, it's there, but you pick the instantaneous like delivery thing. Gotcha. Three hours. So, I was like, great. Because there are some products that you can't get from the supermarket that I get from Chemist Warehouse. Anyway, long story short, sharing economy is great. And I am genuinely surprised on a regular

basis of how much more convenient it gets. Like I thought it would stop at pizza and pasta and now you can have like rat tests delivered on Uber Eats. Like what is the world coming to? I guess you touched on a major benefit to the sharing economy there Vy in its convenience, but what are the other major benefits? So, there are heaps and obviously there is one that I really like. It's obviously very good for our planet because sharing services means that people are, you know, we're talking about Uber Eats and stuff, but people are genuinely very less likely to buy new things. It's really helped, I guess, reframe our relationship with, or I think with consumption. And it also means that the items that we might've thrown away or maybe had sitting

in the back of our wardrobe for a really long period of time or in a shed that we haven't been using are going to be able to get use out of it. And I guess bring down that cost per wear or cost per use and potentially give it a second lease of life. The other one, which I think is really good, especially because we are she's on the money is we can increase our income. Like we historically haven't been able to increase our income without negotiating a another role with an employer or going and starting our own businesses, which obviously includes like massive startup costs and like going above and beyond and having to be relatively creative in our thought patterns but now in 2022 people can make money with relatively little effort like you

don't have to be creative you just have to have the time and access to a phone with an app and you can start creating money be that renting out clothes via platforms like release it or by driving ubers at night it is a super great option as a side hustle for people who don't have a heap of time but also want the flexibility in their lives to choose their own hours and you know choose how they actually manage that because if you're picking up an extra shift on like a thursday and a Friday working in hospitality or something like that. That's an ongoing commitment. Or if you're like, you know what, on Thursday or Friday nights, I'm going to drive Ubers. I'm going to do Uber deliveries or I'm going to go pick up people. There's so much flexibility in doing that.

Something comes up, you don't have to do it. Want to work late? Great, do that. Don't want to work late? Don't do it. It's so flexible. And I think in 2022, that's become an expectation of a role, but also we expect the flexibility in our lives nowadays, especially after COVID, I feel. The other is increased affordability. A good example of this is things like Airbnb, right, where now it often is actually cheaper to rent out someone's entire house than booking a three by four meter hotel room and asking a friend to sleep on the trundle. Across most of these platforms is relatively low overheads, which means lower prices for consumers, which, gee, we love we do the other thing which is on the money we're a community the sharing economy it

promotes a heightened sense of community which we adore and there's certainly more of a personal touch in the sharing economy whether that is sitting in someone's car and driving it renting out their home for the weekend or renting a dress that someone else has worn there's just something really nice about that and i don't know i really like that but i also know that some people are going to be like b i don't want to sit in someone else's car i also don't want to wear their dress. And I'm like, oh, I really like that. So, each to their own. Absolutely. Another benefit is obviously, gee, convenience. It's hard to argue that delivery services and apps that now transport us from door to door and snacks from door to door is much more seamless and a

much more affordable option than it used to be. Because previously, we had higher price points to have things delivered. Like, there was no way I could have had, you know, something couriered across the city for the amount of money I can now. Like nowadays, George, if I need to drop something off at your place and I don't have time to drive over there, I can book an Uber. I can chuck it in the Uber and have them courier it over. Like it is crazy the amount of convenience I get as a business owner, but also personally out of this. And I guess that's a massive appeal for what the sharing economy can actually offer us, right? And the last one, G, I've been trying to think of a whole heap of these because I knew you'd ask me like, what are the benefits? How does

this work. The last one is efficiency. So I've written down efficiency because we wouldn't be using apps like Uber or Airbnb or release it if they weren't really seamless in the service that they're providing and provide us a good customer experience. So from my perspective, they do an amazing job of making life easier for us. And I guess that's why we're all so drawn to them. Like I am a creature of efficiency and comfort and convenience. And as much as that might not be what you're up to. For me, this is perfect. 100%. And yeah, I don't think we can underestimate how impressive. I mean, this episode is not sponsored by Uber, but I feel like we've all had cancelled trips and, you know, the driver hasn't turned up or whatever. You pop through

a complaint and they always, they generally offer you a credit. They're very good. And I mean, that's not their fault that the driver cancelled. Like, I know that there's always going to be things that could be ironed out and it usually comes down to I guess the user experience so like it's usually with the people involved not with the platform like the platform didn't make the driver cancel the driver probably just didn't know how to get to you and like I've had a couple of times where you know on uber it's the food has arrived and maybe something's missing or it was stone cold or something like we've all been there but every time I've spoken to uber like it's been refunded immediately or re-delivered. And I'm always like, oh, that's kind of efficient. Like,

I didn't expect that, like, especially so quickly. 100%. Sophie, back to kind of the idea of the sharing economy in more of a rental space, I guess. Do you think our behavior is going to change in the way we purchase products? Because we're going to be thinking of them as investments that could potentially provide us with some income, some extra income. So, for example, I might strongly consider buying a $1,000 dress that in the past I never would have considered because now I can get a few wears out of that. Amazing. But then I can also potentially rent that out. So, the value is higher. Like, do you think our behaviors are going to change in how we value things? Um, G, are you using that particular example because you were privy to

the conversation I was having with Jess earlier this week? No, I feel like you, were you a fly talk to me all right so jess i don't know if you want me to share this because like you know we're talking about very expensive dresses and like when i say very expensive i mean like a thousand dollars for a dress anyway jess has found online this stunning dress and we are both obsessed with it if you're a zimmerman girl you would know but jess found this dress that she adores and wants to wear to a she's on the money event next month so we're doing the international women's day events which we are super excited about but jess is like they are really want this. And she's been doing some research and like came up with some platforms

like Release It, where she's like, V, if I put it on there, like I could get cost per wear down and I could, you know, if I rent it out four times, then it actually covers the cost of the dress and then I get to wear it. And then the dress is essentially free for me. And we were like negotiating how she could essentially afford to buy this dress. And yes, like literally yes to the question that you're asking, because you just said, would it change the way that we view things. Totally. There's no way Jess would ever have said, you know what, thousand dollars on a dress, easy, I'll wear it, pop it in my wardrobe. But now for her, if she does the extra work, it becomes a really feasible option. Like it's a popular dress. Yes, it will rent out. Like I would

rent it from her because it's stunning. But it's one of those things where you go, hey, you're right. That could potentially, you know, one become a feasible way of owning something that you couldn't have owned before, but also a way to generate some income. Like, I feel like people are going to be altering the way that they purchase because now they're considering the other uses their purchase could potentially have. For example, if you're like, oh my gosh, you know, Steve and I are doing some DIY around the house at the moment and we're about to do a really big renovation. Like, maybe when I pop down to Bunnings to purchase a tool, I'm going to rethink about

the quality of it because I might want to be able to lease it out or, you know, put online for somebody else to use at some point, as opposed to just like, oh, just get the cheap one, we'll use it once, like, and pop it in the shed. It's not going to be, you know, a value to us long-term. It's not worth the extra investment. Like, maybe now we are going to consider it as an actual investment and buy more quality items. I don't know. How do you feel about that? Do you think that that would change the way that you purchase? Yeah, I think I do, Vy, which is kind of exciting because it means you can justify, as Jess may well do, you can justify a more high quality, more expensive product and kind of feel like you're taking one for the planet because

you will then rent it out. But I guess off the back of that V, could then the businesses who create these products, would they then potentially hike up the prices in anticipation that people may expect them to be more expensive. Does that make sense? I don't know. I hadn't really thought about that, but it's a good point in saying that I feel like everything's getting more expensive at the moment. Like I'm looking at dresses and stuff for events and I'm looking at, you know, buying different things. And I feel like everything at the moment is just a bit more expensive than what I had anticipated it to be. But maybe that's just me because overall I want to bargain. Like I'm very likely to just buy a dress that I can find at DFO because I'm like, yes, money win. Like that

fits. It's on sale. It's very cute. But for me, yeah, I don't know, G. What do you reckon? I mean, I think it'll be really interesting to see what happens in the next 10, 20 years and how much the sharing economy really does infiltrate the everyday because it certainly already has to a degree. But yeah, I'm just really fascinated as to where this is all going to go and how our behaviors are just going to continue to change i don't know i'm scared it's a lot right because i feel like historically obviously you could hire things like tools but do you remember when like dress hire started to become a thing and it was incredibly novel yeah and there were companies like glam corner that popped up where you could hire a dress instead of purchasing it and that

was kind of like i don't know at the start it was a bit strange now it's just second nature like a lot of my girlfriends will just hire a dress for an event instead of paying full price because are like well I would only wear it to that wedding once so why don't I just hire it and then that kind of extended into these other websites and other ways of hiring where it's not a company that you're hiring from it's individuals like you go on these websites and Georgia King has uploaded a few dresses that she owns you send an inquiry it goes straight to them they post it off to you and it's kind of like this platform and this hiring culture has completely evolved from you're hiring from a company to you're now hiring from individuals and like I really like that

because I know that they're making money I'd love to know the margins of these things like how much do you get if you rent out your dress like what's the profit margin of the platform that you're listing it on how does that actually work but also I feel like a company has the ability to take more risk than an individual right so if a company owns a thousand dollar dress and they've collected your credit card details and know that if you ruin the dress or don't return the dress, they can charge you X, Y, Z. I feel like there's maybe a little bit more scope for people to be taken advantage of if they're kind of like smaller fish sending out individual items and don't know their rights and don't know how to protect themselves. I don't know, that just pops into

my head because I don't want people to be taken advantage of. Definitely, definitely. And we will talk about that a little bit later on in the show. The transport, hotel, and even the fashion industries, as we kind of pointed to just then, have all been disrupted by the impact of the rise of the sharing economy. Do you think other industries could be impacted when tech advances further? Like healthcare springs to mind. We were speaking before the show. I don't really know how it would work. How healthcare would work. It was actually very funny and I like throwing people underbusters and um you said oh what if you could get like a platform and like doctors could go on there and i was like like a hot dog but i meant more like freelance doctors a bit sus i don't

know if is that well no it would have to be totally regulated otherwise i could like pop on a little lab coat a little stethoscope around my neck and um that dr george kind of service Georgia, if we're going to play dress-ups. But I do think that other industries are definitely impacted by this, right? So, I was saying before to you as well, like, it's not just transport and hotels and individual things. Like, the She's on the Money office is quite literally in a share office space. Like, yes, we have our own individual office suite area. And so, like, if you're watching it on social media, you'll be like, that's their own space. And it absolutely is. But we're inside a bigger office space, I suppose, of literally hundreds of different

types of businesses that all want to somehow collaborate and bring down the cost. Like, it doesn't make sense to me as a business owner anymore to go, do you know what, George? She's on the money's growing. Let's go lease an entire office space and have to pay individually for internet and for, you know, services and utilities and cleaning and all of the other things that you would require for an office. And She's On The Money is in this shared office space. So, we've built into the cost of rent, like our internet and all of the services and like

coffee that our team drinks, like it's all shared, which ultimately brings down the cost. So, from my perspective, like it works really well. And I don't know why it wouldn't, you know, stretch across different areas of the world because I can definitely see in the future even jobs being shared. We already know the concept of job sharing exists, but I can see as tech advances, there being a more seamless way to job share where potentially you might be a, you know, marketing professional, but you actually work across five different businesses one day a week. Like how cool would that be if that became the case?

So I do think that lots and lots of different industries are changing. George, there's even like an Uber nowadays for private jets. like you can just go on your phone and work out how to fly in a private jet like what like i just can't see any industry that couldn't adapt something similar is that like is there any danger in that though v not in private jets specifically i know they are hugely problematic but i've also had literally no experience with private jets like that's that's a different salary bracket, Georgia King. But do you think like, I don't know, will certain industries collapse or like is anything bad going to happen because of the sharing economy or is it all

looking pretty dandy? I don't know. I feel like there's a lot of scope for people or individuals to be taken advantage of though. So, as things grow and, you know, as businesses are trying to be more I guess economical and even I am looking at it from this perspective as a business owner I go well how do we save on rent and share space no problem but as that increases and as people are trying to find cheaper solutions we have to remember that sometimes the people actually delivering that service aren't being paid minimum wage so I'm sure we'll get into it at some point but you look at how much people might make for doing Uber deliveries and then we might compare that to the minimum wage per hour in Australia and it might not actually equate and I think that

there's a fair bit of scope for people to be taken advantage of who are trying to like side hustle and do their own thing and like put their all into it but maybe not be remunerated in the way that they should be because these companies don't have them as employees so they don't have minimum standards that they need to adhere to and yeah i just i feel like that is probably from my perspective the biggest risk but to be honest i haven't put a lot of thought into how it could be the downfall of other areas okay yeah so more on an individual level i guess these people are probably not being paid super they'll have to pay their own taxes etc etc so that's yeah it's a lot more responsibility on people and then you look at how much money you're paying for a delivery

right george so like we ordered thai food the other night and i think i ended up with free delivery because like there was a promotion going on you're like well how much is the driver being paid like how does this work like is it economical is it actually fair like i just i worry about that but then even if they say the small business the small thai restaurant that you ordered that uber eats from are they being penalized through using uber eats because if they're not on uber eats then no one's going to order from them because that's just the way things are now and like uber eats it's going to take a cut yeah for small business it could be really disruptive because also uber eats obviously charge a fee and that's a percentage of the purchase price

and so i know that if i went to pick up that tie just because it's my local tie shop i know it would be cheaper but i know that on uber they are slightly more expensive and i'm making the grand assumption that's to make up for the fact that uber take quite a large cut so they have to charge more which I'm totally fine with but then does that put customers out like does that then you know turn away some customers who might be like well I only wanted to pay $20 and now it's like close to $30 because of this service like it's now unobtainable like I don't know it just feels like a really interesting space and then obviously the rental space is being impacted by Airbnb because nowadays it's obviously so easy to put your apartment if you own one on Airbnb but then

it minimizes the amount of apartments that are available for people to rent on an ongoing basis yeah and obviously if you're a landlord and you own a property you're trying to maximize how much it makes so it's kind of like a rock and a hard place because it benefits one person but disadvantages another but then you've got to think about the responsibility you have to the economy Like, I don't know. I know. That is such a hard one. And it is a point flagged a little further on in the show. So, we'll get to that when we do. But let's take a little break here. But on the other side, we will be chatting through how we can both save and make money via the sharing economy, as well as what those potential downfalls are. So, please don't go anywhere.

Straight back into it, VD, onto the exciting stuff. How can the sharing economy actually make us money? Oh, these are the good questions, G King. We can essentially now make side hustles and up our income from things that we have laying around our house or in our shed or in our garage or sitting in the garden or literally the actual house that we're sitting in. Unlike selling unused items that we have around the house, which we obviously promote you do too, we are now able to make money from them, which not only pays off those items, but also contributes to increasing your income on an ongoing basis, which we love. And gee, you and I, we speak about side hustles all the time and we often hear the feedback like, oh, I don't have a skill set that I'm able to

monetize or, you know, I don't think that I could do that. I just don't have, you know, any creative ideas to start a business. But the beauty of this model is that it allows making money to become more accessible. Like sure, you still need to have the items, like you need to have the clothes that you want a rent out or a car to put online or a house to offer for Airbnb, but you don't actually necessarily need a skill. You just need the time to set it up and organize it and get it done. Do keep in mind though, G, this is like financial advisor me kicking into gear. If you are going to do that, you will need to pay tax because there is a very big difference between making money as a hobby and also trying to make a commercial effort to actually increase

your income. And those two things are very different. But if you have any questions, you absolutely should ask your accountant. Yeah, brilliant. Just on the tax theme B, if we do choose to use a service like ReleaseIt and rent out our goods, or maybe if we're using like a skill-based provider like Airtasker, do you have any tips for just how to stay on top of that tax? It can get away from you really, really quickly because it all adds up. And if you're using the same bank account that you usually transact in, it can intertwine with all your other expenses. And you're like, well, I don't know how much I made because my pay goes into that as well. And I've also been spending money. So, it goes and it comes and I have no

idea. I think from my perspective, I like clarity. So, if you are going to use a service like ReleaseIt and you're going to start putting things online and making money, to be honest, one of my top tips would be getting a separate bank account and tracking all the money through there and any money that you need to spend on that particular service comes from there just so you've got really clean records for tax and then understand what the taxable income rates are. So, I have another podcast, Subtle Plug Georgia King, The Business Bible, and we actually take you through how much you need to hold for tax if you're a small business. And these things would apply to you because it's essentially like operating a small business, but you will need

to make sure that you hold back some tax because you don't want to be stung at tax time with a really hefty bill. Gotcha. Okay. I guess, yeah, it can be really complicated, especially if you like are on airtasker and you are on release it and you are Uber driving at night and you're renting your home out on the weekend. Like it is a lot to stay on top of. So, hot tips there. Yeah. And keep track of. And like that's a small business tip in general is just don't use your personal bank accounts. Like have a separate bank account. It doesn't have to be with a different bank. You just set it up so that that income is captured in a separate location so that you know what it looks like and you can kind of go onto your online banking app and look at how much in

total you've made over the year instead of having to print out all your bank statements and work out what that actually looks like. Because I promise it can get away from you really quickly. Brilliant. Okay. So, we've chatted through the major benefits of which there seem to be plenty when it comes to the sharing economy. We have pointed to a couple of downfalls, but what other downfalls are there, V? Look, to me, the downfalls are more related to each service rather than the model on a holistic level. Like from a holistic level, I think that the sharing economy is fantastic and it gives us so much opportunity, but it goes back to what I was saying before about like Airbnb and stuff. And it goes back to the housing affordability crisis

that we're currently in. So for example, I'm going to use the peninsula as an example, because George and I are from there. So many houses have now turned into Airbnbs because homeowners can make so much more money from that asset by offering short-term rentals over the holidays compared to leasing their homes out the old-fashioned way. And this actually means that long-term rentals on the Mornington Peninsula are much harder to come by. And the prices are arguably a lot more expensive and people who need homes can't necessarily access them as easily. and you know this crisis is everywhere it is not just the mornington peninsula but that's an example that i know quite well and it's a conversation i've had recently with lots of friends who are

looking for new houses to move into and genuinely they're like everything is an airbnb and it's really frustrating and i mean the nature of capitalism means that people will be driven by whatever can make them the most amount of money from something so if they can make more money by renting out their home a few weeks a year on Airbnb and then have access to it personally, rather than leasing it out to people who need to live there long term and they can't use their property or have that flexibility. Like most people are going to choose that option if it's viable for them, which is really tough. But at the end of the day, that's how people are wired. And I'm not saying it is right, but on an individual level, if someone is making an

investment decision about a property, because let's be honest, if you have a property that you don't live in that isn't an investment property you're going to want to get the best return on your investment right totally like it just totally it just makes sense for you to want that even though you know if you step back and look at it from a macro level it's a really big issue but on an individual issue george if you bought a property on the peninsula and weren't living in it like weighing up the pros and cons of how you individually earn an income from that property, do you want to earn minimum long-term rental yield or, you know, the penitential goes wild at Christmas time? Do you want to earn that amount of money over the Christmas, New Year's,

Easter break and then have access to your own holiday property over the winter? Like, I'm not saying that these are the right decisions to be making, but you can absolutely see why people are making them if they're in that privileged position. It's such an ethical dilemma, V, because I totally understand how on an individual level, you want to make as much money as you can. You worked hard for that investment, et cetera, et cetera. You deserve all the riches in the world. But then if you look beyond yourself, you know, there's a homelessness crisis. People can't access housing, but we're like, oh, well, you know, I've got an investment property. I want to make more money from that. And it's like, what's happened? I sound like some kind of,

I don't know, preacher, but it is, it kind of is a bit sad that we're choosing money above humanity. But at the end of the day, that's capitalism and here we are. Yeah. And it's really hard because that means there's no right or wrong. And lots of people, I have colorful opinions on people who own multiple houses. And from my perspective, like if they've worked really hard and they've earned that themselves, like we live in a really beautiful country where we can do whatever we want essentially and so like i'm not opposed to people being landlords but we know that a lot of people are and that's like that's okay that's personal opinion but that's also why i think councils and the government more broadly is

starting to really work out what is and isn't available for airbnb like they are now zoning things to say no these properties cannot be leased out as airbnbs and i think that they do need to be a little bit more clear on that because I think a lot of people are now purchasing property with the intention of leasing it out and that could obviously then impact property prices. So how do you rezone an apartment? Like let's say we bought a house on the peninsula together, George, and at the time that we purchased it, we purchased it with the intention of leasing it out as an Airbnb and making a certain profit. So therefore that property is worth more to us and it would have gone for more. But then if it's rezoned, is that fair on that person who purchased that investment

that then investment's now worth much less because of a decision that was made that, you know, at the time was not something that they had signed up for? Like, I get it and I don't get it. And I think that it's a rock and a hard place where we need to do the right thing at a more macro level, like at a more holistic level. But we also need to respect the fact that individuals should be at the at a base level be able to operate however they would like in a way yeah yeah that's a tough one food for thought good chat um yeah look that's airbnb like that's the housing affordability crisis but then we also know that there's been past huge issues with companies like uber who haven't treated their drivers well and haven't put them in the positions

that they should be in and we're not just talking about pay we're also talking about safety here they've both been big issues and then a lot of these platforms do take a cut of your earnings so that's the cost of using the service like at the end of the day I think that they absolutely should but we need to make sure that these are fair and reasonable and that you're familiar with them and I know that a lot of companies like Airtasker is another one but they make sure that you don't take the client off the app so you can't build a business and step away from that so they do have, I guess, catches in a way to make sure that you do stay on those apps, which I think is absolutely fair because that's their business model, right? Like, they don't want you to use

that platform, build your own business and bugger off. Yeah, 100%. This is kind of a little bit of a sidestep and maybe it's not necessarily a downfall, but I'm curious to hear your opinion. So, the theme of gentrification is kind of interesting to me. So, again, it comes back to Airbnb, but I remember a couple of years ago, pre-COVID, I went to Europe with a couple of girlfriends and we went to a place called Benaluria and it was in the- Spain? It was in Spain, yes, in the hilltops. It was not the hilltops, in the mountains. It was amazing, but it was so remote. It was not a tourist destination. No one spoke English, which was fantastic, but it did kind of feel like we were aliens um and like we were stepping into someone else's space that maybe we

weren't that welcomed there because yeah and i wonder if airbnb now allowing us to stay in places where there aren't hotels that aren't tourist destinations that are just these gorgeous little communities i wonder if that is a positive or a negative thing for these communities and i think that that's where the community has to have a say on that right yes they're not comfortable with that happening that's about local government getting involved and you know negotiating whether Airbnb and services like this should be able to go to these locations and you know I've been lucky enough and privileged enough to travel before as well and Airbnb has been a really big part of that and arguably one of my favorite parts of that and you're probably the

same where I went to Paris with a couple of friends and we got this gorgeous Airbnb together that. And it just felt like we got to immerse ourselves in the culture in a way that you couldn't immerse yourself in it if we'd stayed in a hotel. Like we just wouldn't have been able to have that experience of finding our feet in a location where, you know, we could go and get our own breakfast in the morning and have a little apartment with a little kitchen and kind of live there for a little while, as opposed to a hotel where it is a little bit more clinical and it doesn't give you the, I guess, ability to live in a little apartment with a dingy old lift that was terrifying and had those great doors. Like it was just an experience, but you're right. Where's the

line with that? Like in the center of Paris, I feel like that's really reasonable. Like I didn't feel out of place, but I can absolutely see how in a incredible remote town in Spain, you did feel that way. And I would love to see on the flip side, how other people felt about that. Like did other travelers feel the same way? What about the locals? Do they like that? Because some locals might turn around and be like, yeah, we're not a tourist town, but it's so nice to have different faces around. And they came to our cafes and they brought a little bit more business. But at what point does that become too commercial? And I guess this is a conversation that is really stretching into something that it wasn't before. But if you had traveled to Bali 20 years ago, it was this

gorgeous, really, I guess, cultural experience where you got to experience their culture and what they were doing, and now you go to Bali. I don't know what it is like post-COVID, so I do think that maybe it has changed very significantly. But, you know, in 2019, if you went to Bali, it wasn't that cultural experience because it's now been saturated with tourism. And that doesn't mean that it's a bad place to go, but is that what the locals want? Is that what they wanted for their communities and, you know, that would have started off in the same way as you going to that remote town in Spain. Like, at some point, Bali wasn't a tourist location and then it became one. So, I think that there's a lot of conversation to be having around that and I do wonder if it is

a concern for more remote townships and places that, you know, maybe want that but also don't know what the implications of that are, right? Like, they might love the few little tourists that come through and grab a coffee at their local cafes but then it gets out of hand and what does that look like and how do we manage that for them because I do think that homes should be respected and that communities should be respected but yeah I just don't know what the rules are or what the ethical dilemma there is yeah it's going to be very interesting to see what happens moving forward they I have loved this chat today my friend I feel like it's been very ethical uh we've really chatted it all out. It's very much around our own personal values, isn't it?

Yeah. I'll be interested to hear what the feedback is on this one, if you guys have got stuff out of it or if you just want us to shut up. Probably both. My final question for you today, Vee, is I guess for anyone who is sick of their nine to five, we know the great resignation has been a massive thing over the last six months or so. Would you say that maybe working within the share economy could be a viable option or would you say maybe it's just a better thing to have on the side look i think it could be both it depends on the time and energy and effort that you're willing to put into this like there are people who do these things absolutely full time if you're considering it i wouldn't jump your nine to five job until you've worked out what that could look

like viably for you i would give it a few trial tests and see what's going on like if you're planning on driving uber like go and see how much you're actually able to make and at what times you're able to make that money because if you're planning on replacing your nine to five job are you going to get the amount of you know uber drives that you want to get during the hours of nine to five if that's what you're replacing or are most of them going to be 9 p.m to 1 a.m because that's friday and saturday night for you jay yeah like what does that actually look like how would that work for you? What sharing economy are you going to be engaging in? Are you going to get a whole heap of dresses and put them online? Are you going to get tools and pop them on release it? Are

you going to be just driving Ubers? Are you going to do Uber Eats deliveries? What does that look like? Absolutely, people could make an entire career off this. And I've seen people from our She's on the Money community actually, G, make a lot of money on platforms like Airtasker by putting up, tasks that they're able to do, and then they end up creating a full-time income for themselves and being able to charge more and, you know, actually have a bit more flexibility around it. But it's an interesting question. And I love the fact that so many of us now have so much more power in our hands when historically that wouldn't have existed. All right. Well said there, V. Thank you again for this chat. I loved every second, but I do think that is all we have time

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Securities Australia, Proprietary Limited, ABN 47097797049, AFSL 236523. We will see you next week, guys. Bye. Bye. Thank you.