She's On The Money - If Buying a Home Feels Impossible—Is This the Next Best Thing? Plus, Should You Ditch a Share Over Ethics?

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Feeling like home ownership is totally out of reach? You’re not alone. With property prices skyrocketing, we’re looking at a surprising alternative—investing in commercial real estate. Could this be a smarter move than saving endlessly for a deposit? Or is it just another risk? We break down what you need to know before diving in. Then, we’re tackling an ethical investing dilemma—should you sell a stock if you don’t support the CEO? With Tesla and Elon Musk constantly making headlines, it raises a big question: do your investments need to align with your values, or should you focus purely on financial gain? And of course, it wouldn’t be a Friday episode without money wins that will have you cheering, broke tips to save you serious cash (including a bread-making hack that might change your grocery budget forever) and all the Friday fun you know and love.  Ready for more laughs, lessons, and unhinged money chats? Check out our oh-so-bingeable Friday Drinks playlist. Listen here. Join our 300K+ She's on the Money community in our Facebook Group and on Instagram.  Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's On The Money, the podcast that makes personal finance fun, especially on Fridays. It is our favorite day of the week because I get to get my little team together and we get to celebrate you, our incredible She's On The Money community. Miss Jessica Ricci is here. She's here sharing her favorite money wins. Miss Bex Syed, you've got a few broke tips this week and we're going to be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma, which this week is all about commercial real estate and whether it's a good alternative when you can't afford a house which I think will be a spicy conversation and something that you slid into our dms about guys should you hold on to your investment when the ceo of a company is actually

acting unethically so I feel like that's like less relationship drama which like I want more of that slide into our dms but also I feel like this is like I know an ethical conundrum like do you don't you like and also are you talking about your ceo or you've seen something in the media interesting yeah anyway before we get there how were your weeks nothing exciting to report for me just i'm sorry just how many flat tires yeah one and two new tires and three hundred dollars later thank you so much thank you emergency fund literally no it's been it's been you know a couple the days that everything goes wrong but it's fine yeah how about you poor jess ricky i'm going through it i feel like you veer bad luck like you're not always bad luck yeah but like i think that you

lean the universe has you leaning a little bit bad luck i don't know what i did to deserve the bad juju you're the cutest angel pie i've ever met you don't deserve any of that i'm sorry that you got a flat tire and it wasn't even like a little bit like you sent me a picture and she was sitting on the ground yeah like she was flat I did offer to change it and um I've done this before this is not new to me I am actually the V in the RACV um but as we were saying before you were like but I don't have a tire and I was like oh I don't come prepared like I'm a BYO RACV yeah so if you've got the stuff I'll give it a crack I don't promise to be good um but I will try thankfully jess found someone who was reputable yes beautiful that's probably the safest bet

it's much better it's like i won't be here but yeah i think beck and i we could do anything together absolutely you need a new car built jess i reckon beck and i could do it from scratch i believe it scratch i absolutely believe it and one that doesn't exist at the moment we invent a car move over elon flying car that would solve all my problems okay let's get started say less baby anything for you yeah my week's been really lovely I took a few days off um I saw on Instagram yeah I've just been like I feel like I was a stay-at-home wife for a little while and I just be a really loving a stay-at-home wife did you enjoy that life I loved it I was like oh my god just wake up whenever I want see my friends that's the life I meant to live but I also I made this

like lovely sweet potato brownie I never cook you know it's lovely but anyway and also this is TMI But the only downside is that I've had some stomach issues and I've been really clogged up and that's where I'm at right now. Oh, that's not fun at all. I used to go two, three times a day. Okay. That feels like a lot. I mean, last episode we were talking about vulvas.

Yeah. So I'm not surprised that we've moved onwards and not upwards. Everyone's just becoming very comfortable. I know. Maybe it's these lounges are getting too comfortable in this podcast studio. Yeah, sorry about that, guys. Well, if anyone has any advice on how to unblock me. No worries.

we'll talk about prunes later let's move on would you guys like to have a five-star review absolutely serenade style yes please yeah okay so say less beck this one i think you're gonna like this one comes from rx9 to xy um i love that how would you pronounce that pronounced ria yeah perfect love the she's on the money team oh after leaving a financial abusive relationship and living paycheck to paycheck. I managed to buy a house solo six months later and soon after that found this podcast. The financial literacy I now have is amazing thanks to the She's On The Money team. Fast forward a few years, I've nearly fully renovated my house. I have an emergency fund and I'm going on a big five-week trip to Europe and I'm investing a thousand dollars a month for

future me i now have a financial plan and i'm working on my money mindset could not thank she's on the money enough for providing a simple fun and entertaining money podcast i look forward to listening to every single week oh my god that's amazing talk about change your story seriously that is the dream that's your goal can you um send me a dm because i'd like to do a money diary with you. That would be so cool. That's really cool. Good on you. Rxy793. I like your name. It's unique. The username was available. Oh my goodness. I love a five-star review because I just, I love knowing how we have impacted our community. Like it's funny because, you know, it's the three of us in the studio right now having a chat and we are so comfortable because

we forget that literally hundreds of thousands of people listen to our podcast each and every single month. I mean, Beck talks about vulvas and stomach issues as though hundreds of thousands of people are not actually tuning in. So like having those little bits that really connect us to you. And it just reminds us that we are doing the right thing and we are on track and we are surrounded by the right people. And it just, it literally is my favorite part of the week. Like sharing. It's so special. But anyway, another favorite part of my week is the money wins and confessions thread that happens every single week in our Facebook community. Miss Jessica Ricci, what are the highlights? Alrighty. Firstly, I've got one from Brianna who said money win. I went

to a run club and all the women who were there were gifted a pair of Puma sneakers. It was apparently a part of an IWD activation. That's a good deal. 200 bucks. Oh my God. Sneakers are so expensive why are shoes so expensive I know have I told you about my ones that I think I have they have holes in them so I just wear black socks so you can't see the holes in my shoes because the shoes are black Jessica I will buy you new shoes they're really ruined but I just can't bring myself to buy new ones they're so expensive anyway maybe I should join a run club and that'll solve all my problems next I've got a money win from aunt who said money win I found my chooks hidden stash of eggs right before I had to give up and buy some I love that chooks do that they're so

cute that they like find new places to lay their eggs and get comfy and they're like oh this good spot yeah like if you're a chicken and you didn't like have a permanent home like maybe you got your hatch but like you're always looking for good locations yeah i love chickens too they're so some people think that they're really scary but like they are so cute actually speaking of like feathered friends do you guys follow alicia who works for zella money on instagram i already messenger about this so alicia is one of our team members i don't oh you would have met them at some point yeah anyway alicia is gorgeous and she went to her dad's house over the weekend he like lives a little bit further towards new south wales he has pet emus oh wow and they're super affectionate

like they come up and they cuddle and want cats and scratches and i was like babe you've got one of your siblings is an emu that is really cute is that like i didn't even know that was yeah i was It's like, can I just get an emu? And she said, no, you actually have to have licenses and stuff. I see. And he's got land. So, I mean, he's allowed. But she has multiple emu siblings and that is just not what I expected

to see on the internet over the weekend. So cute. I said to her, I want to meet him. I want to cuddle him. Same. And do you know what his name is? No. But do you know what his brother's name is?

Ernie? Yes. Oh, that is very cute. I'm obsessed. What else have you got, Jess? sorry i had to tell you about alicia's amy's oh i'm very into it next i've got a money win from amy who said she's managed to increase her emergency fund by 20 in the last month to help her with the rising cost of living that's actually so cool and good reminder with how expensive

everything is getting might be a good time to double check if your emergency fund still covers the amount of time that you want it to because we all probably need to chuck a little bit more in there at the moment that's so true uh because money's just not going as far as it used to no next i've got a money win from samantha who said if the health benefits aren't enough of an incentive to take my dog for its nightly walk then coming back with a new free harness giant zucchini and some limes definitely is sorry what what you just found all of those laying on the floor i so she said love communities that are always leaving fresh produce and free things out money wins so i think maybe she's got a facebook page where people say oh i've got like

lots of limes or i've anyone need this dog harness mine's grown out of it something like that and she's just picked them up on her evening walk my mom has been growing zucchinis and like at what point do you say just pick the zucchini, Judy? Like the zucchinis that she's pulling out of her garden. Is she trying to grow them as big as she can? They're massive. And I'm like, I don't need this. Like I needed half size, quarter size. What do I do with like a two kilo zucchini? One zucchini feeds the whole family. Yeah. Like I'm just finding lots of different recipes for zucchinis. You want zucchini slice? Fantastic. I've also made it for Tata. Also we're having zucchini pasta. Are you happy? She's usually going to turn into

a giant zucchini any second and lastly this week i've got a money loss but a life win from jackie who said she bought a puppy little denise arrived last week and i couldn't be happier and we do indeed have a beautiful pet tax photo that she put on the thread oh and i might be dying because denise is adorable okay hi denise is adorable also people names for dogs yeah i want to see more of it i love that yeah i've got a susan in my circle which i think is so cute that's my Boyfriend's mum's name. Is Susan a cat, a dog? Rescue Greyhound.

Oh, Susan. As we all have, as you must have in my community. I'm obsessed. Jess, I feel like that was a good one to end on. Bec, broke tips. What are they? Yes. So this first one comes from Emma who lives in South Australia.

And I have mentioned the RACV situation here in Victoria. There's a lot of benefits. But this one is South Australia and they're called RAA. and being a member you get deals discounts with certain businesses for example restaurants offer kids eat free complimentary drinks extra meal on feed me menu there's also cheap movie tickets or zoo tickets and can buy release e-gift cards for four percent discount which i think is great which i think is i love that kind of stuff you also do a lot of short back and stuff it's like if you do that first and then go do your shop it's just like money that you see yes it is so smart

One of the girls that I interviewed this morning for Money Diaries was actually like, please thank Bec for me because I've been playing the Shop Back games while watching maths and I've made 50 bucks. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, I need to get on this. No, it's really good. I need to dive in a little bit more. Well, you recommended it to someone.

She's taken it. She's made 50 bucks. That's amazing. That's really incredible. That's such a good deal. That's so good. I know. There's also this thing that Shop Back are doing where it's like,

you know, you go into a draw to win. Are you sponsored by Shop Back and we didn't know? I know, it sounds like sorry. Because we're not sponsored by ShopBack at the moment. Like ShopBack, call me. But like maybe you are. Sorry. Oh, don't be sorry.

They can have free shout outs. We just want to disclose, you know. We would be unethical if we didn't. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So she's not sponsored. She's just obsessed. I am obsessed.

I am obsessed. My best friend was trying to buy a MacBook the other day, not on ShopBack, and I almost projectile vomited. I was like, what are you doing? Why are you spending money right now? Anyway. But it's great. you need to get on that's not what the broke tip is it is about what is the broke tip RAA from

South Australia and the member benefits so keep that in your back pocket if you live in South Australia so this next one comes from my girlfriend um who sent me a tiktok about this place called panda mart which apparently is really cheap and I don't know why it's cheap but oh no hold on hold on let's hear the broke tip and then Jess I know what you're gonna say Jess is squirming I'm getting a little bit nervous but as far as I know it's like a daiso a daiso of sorts it's like everything just really cheap yeah and if you said that a couple of weeks ago i think jess and i would have been like yeah that's great so you're saying there's like another a cool shop that sells what your friend sent it to you because it's like cheap yeah everything everything even like but

this is the thing is that like i think if you're if you can't afford that much you're like oh i i'm just trying to block out the fact that this it's like when you go to like nqr you're kind of like i'm gonna get a good deal but like you don't know about it you don't know unethical is this being made somewhere really bad but i just don't know about it and so like that's one part of my brain But if you can't afford, then it's like a dollar for a whole, you know, desk. None of that's probably what you'd buy. I know what you mean. I feel like we're going to have to null and void your money win

or your broke tip because, Jess, I see you scurrying to your phone to Google some headlines. What happened to Pandemart recently? They had like a big police raid or something of the sort on the store. Read the headline, Jess. It says, urgent warning over dangerous items from new Melbourne discount shop. What do it like a shot like knives or something? Well, apparently there were thousands of products that they believe will fail to meet the mandatory

product safety and information standards, including items that could be dangerous. I know I saw a lot of people on TikTok talking about Pandema and then I saw a lot of people on TikTok saying, oh my gosh, do not go to Pandema. Is it just a good PSA for people? Maybe let's not go to Pandema. So that could have been a good broke tip if you'd used it much earlier before we knew that they literally got raided. I see.

But the more you know, the more educated we are, the more informed decisions we can make. I did find it weird because it's just like in my mind it popped up out of nowhere. Yeah. And gone before we could even hear today, gone tomorrow. Exactly. Well, I'm sorry that we ruined that one for you.

That's okay. Please tell me that your personal one is going to redeem us. So I have calculated because my girlfriend. Do you have a girlfriend? Yes, sorry. We didn't even know. I genuinely feel so annoying when I do that. But I just need to give context.

I need to give context. Annoy us. I never want to not hear about other Jess. Good, good, good. Maybe she'll join the show one day. Let's have her on. Guess. Hi, Jess.

We know so much about you. She's very like have staples in the house kind of girl, which I never am. so um she she always wants bread she's a big fan of having a peanut butter toast in the morning and so I was like going out to buy bread and I keep buying this bread but it's like sometimes nine dollars a loaf it's actually getting astronomical it's getting out of control yes sometimes and so I was like oh I'll just make something and so I made focaccia and I realized like genuinely if you buy like a five kilo you don't even have to do this you could just buy like

500 grams sachet of I don't know bread flour but if you buy it in bulk it's obviously cheaper but all you really need is bread flour instant yeast and that will last so long this focaccia I would say you can get like 10-15 loaves out of a five kilo bag which is ten dollars now you have fresh homemade loaves and it is really not that hard to make like if I can make it literally anyone can make it it is so easy it's so quick I don't know you gotta put aside some time whatever but it's so much cheaper than buying bread. So I was talking to my dad about this. I've mentioned on the show before that my dad has started making bread at home

and it's like my favourite thing ever and I don't want to give him too much credit because like he keeps like testing new recipes but I think he's nailed it. Like he has this crunchy on the outside, soft on the inside, white. I would say like, you know, like French style bread, you know, where it's like the bread that you get. Delicious. That's just really good with like butter.

anyway he has calculated that to have his bougie bread after you make it at home it's like two dollars ish a loaf like that is a money win that includes like the yeast and the flour and whatnot and he was telling me that you can get these and you can just get them at coles and woolies it's by the brand luck l-a-u-c-k-e how would you say that luck look l-a-l-l-a-l-a-k look look um anyway let us know they do a bread mix so it's already got the yeast and stuff in it so you don't have to do any of the math obviously it's going to be a bit more expensive than doing it from scratch but i just looked at it it's 10 bucks for a box that is 2.4 kilos which apparently makes four loaves oh that's you know what you could do yeah facebook marketplace bread maker

oh yeah bread maker honestly the old school bread maker that has the bucket inside that my mom had 20 years ago you want one of those yeah my dad has been testing out my mom's 20 year old bread maker that she used to use perfect every time okay so if you can pick up or if you can like rummage through a parent's or a grandparent's cupboard and see if they still have one of those big white bread makers yeah say less oh my god that's great i mean it's it's really sounding like we're in the great depression or something like we make your bread at home guys because we can't afford but also but it is some activity awesome your house oh my gosh going to my parents house now because like i'll say oh tad what a coincidence that i'm calling you at least

eight hours before I come to your house to let you know that I'm coming to your house um and then I arrive at his house and the house smells like bread oh that is so nice nothing better yeah I feel like it's very Jessica Ricci coded yes definitely making her own sourdough but like I don't think she'd be like us Beck she's not gonna buy the pre-mix I can see her with her own sourdough starter like she's gonna have a job but I love the idea yeah I think she's going to be there one day. Oh yeah. I love that. Let's go to a really quick break because on the flip side, we're not going to talk about bread. We are actually going to be talking about whether commercial real estate is a good alternative if you have decided that you can't afford a house

or if that's out of the question. And then you slid into our DMs this week. We're talking about should you hold on to your investment when you realize that the CEO of the company you own is actually relatively unethical. So don't go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. Let's take a listen to this week's Money Dilemma. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's On The Money team is here to help.

Every week, we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording and you might just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to this week's Money Dilemma. hi she's on the money girls love the podcast i've got a question for you my husband and i make decent money and we could save up for a house deposit in a couple of years but the problem

is making the repayments it looks like it will be about double our rent and because we have a young baby and i'll be you know i'm i'm on and off work maternity leave etc i just don't think that that's manageable for us to be able to do i recently got some advice from a family member to look into commercial real estate instead of buying, you know, a personal property. Basically, they said that it's way cheaper than buying a house. And as you paid off or the, you know, someone pays rent off of you, that pays off the mortgage. You could eventually use it for leverage to buy yourself a home or buy more property. And it's basically just passive income. But I don't know how this impacts like first home buyers grant, if we do want to buy a house later on, or how it impacts

like taxes or you know what if it's empty and you're paying rent and you're paying this like mortgage on the commercial real estate I really just not sure if that's the way to go and who we should talk to or how we would go about doing that thanks so much what do you guys reckon this sounds like this is too good to be true I've never even heard of this what is like you bet you I think I just would that's just commercial property like it's still property but often commercial property isn't going to be as expensive as like buying a first home in the suburb of your choice but then you're paying off your rent is going toward the mortgage or did i misunderstand that she's talking about purchasing a commercial property and having a mortgage on the commercial

property and then renting it out oh yeah it's an investment property it's just commercial instead of residential it's not oh sorry oh my god okay i understand now so it's like you know say a cafe for example. Yeah. Oh, that's clever. I think it's clever. What do you think, Jess? I don't know much about the pricing. To me, I can't imagine retail space being that much cheaper than residential property. But again, I have done literally zero research and have no point of reference that that's just like my gut instinct. I would have significant concerns over the viability of something long term. I think that something that I just personally have observed in even our inner suburbs in Melbourne, Richmond, Brunswick, places like that.

I keep saying for lease on everything. Retail spaces particularly seem to be empty, sitting empty for longer, probably partly due to the increase where from home, partly due to the fact that so many of us have way less disposable income. So we're cutting out discretionary spending, cafe, you know, all that sort of thing. So I would really say you want to do your research into making sure that it's a viable option because you don't want to get stuck in the trap of exactly as our listener was saying if you purchase the space and you're not able to rent it out you are responsible for that rent and if you're saying to me now I can't make repayments on a mortgage it's still that's exactly the same thing just on a commercial space and then the other thing that I

would say as far as I know from my personal research for my property pretty much all of the first home buyer grants, schemes, et cetera, that are available, do rely on it being your first property for you to live in. Your first residential property. Correct. So you, not only would you not be able to use those for that property purchase, you would not be able to use them in future because generally. You're forfeiting them. Yeah. Correct. It's for your first property purchase. Yeah. And I feel like for a lot of us, if this is the first time we're putting it on the table, purchasing a commercial property could feel like a very strategic move because you're like, oh this is you know a smart thing to do instead of purchasing a residential property but at the

end of the day it does come with like it's not a bad idea it's one that you need to weigh up but it does come with a number of different trade-offs. The one Jess mentioned your first home buyer grants and any stamp duty concessions that are available in your state or territory are going to be forfeited because it was your first property purchase and those things only actually apply to your first residential property. Commercial properties they obviously can although like being a little bit positive. They can generate rental income. They can, you know, give you some tax benefits, which is really exciting, but they do typically, and I come from an educated perspective on this, as you guys know, I run a mortgage broking business. They have a higher

need for a deposit. So you're not going to be able to work with a mortgage broker. Like I get my team getting first home buyers into houses for 5%. I have my team getting people in for 10%. 10%. We have been working with single moms who are getting in for 2%. Like there are lots of schemes and grants when it comes to commercial property. I'd say 99% of the time you need a full 20% deposit plus costs, which is fine. But then there are tighter lending criteria as well and less lending options. So you can go to the big four bank, but they have a different interest rate for commercial properties than they do for residential. And then there will be banks that say, oh no, this loan product is only for resi, not for commercial. And we can't like use that.

So your lending options are whittled down, which means you're probably going to have a higher interest rate. And then obviously another negative is it can be a little risky. Jess, you said market fluctuations, market turned down. Often when you have a commercial property, the vacancy rate is higher. So a vacancy rate is the percentage of time every year that there's nobody paying you rent. This could happen to somebody who owns a residential property as well because your tenant says, oh, I'm moving out. And then you've got maybe a couple of weeks before someone else moves in. But as you guys know, like the residential rental market is quite competitive. So I can almost guarantee that if you've got a tenant who said, hey, Becca, I want to move out of your property,

you've already put it online and line someone else up. You've probably got a few days where you're doing the cleaning, bond transfer, all of that, and then somebody else moves in. With commercial property, that could be months because it's got to be the right business. There's got to be someone who's willing to pay for fit out, someone who's probably willing to actually sign a five-year lease because often leases in commercial are much longer than year to year because, you know, obviously I can talk about this in more detail one day, but with commercial leases, you as the landlord don't actually take on any of the responsibility for upkeep. So like the air conditioner breaks, that's your tenants deal to fix. Whereas in

residential, you'd call your landlord and they'd fix it. So all of that stuff becomes their responsibility. So obviously if they're going to put air con in, they are going to want to stay there for longer than 12 months to cover that investment. And then, yeah, I guess it just makes it a little bit harder if you chose that as your first property to enter the market a little bit later on when it comes to residential because you don't get any of those concessions that are designed to support first home buyers so that's my two cents yeah would you say to a mortgage broker absolutely because they can do the pros and the cons for you and work out what that looks like because residential properties we are seeing they are still very popular despite me saying yes or

know like we purchased even recently a few like factory warehouse things for clients and like the rental yield on them in the location that they have picked is really high really great location like it's up and coming like really really popular yeah that doesn't mean that just commercial property across the board is a good investment this was and I was even thinking like oh that's pretty cool how did you find out about that I'd like to buy one of these can't afford it right now don't worry but I think it's yeah interesting to see how people value different things and if you're getting advice from a family member I adore that but always like temper it with like are they an investment expert are they somebody I should be taking investment advice from

and then let that guide you as to how much more research you need to do so sorry just really quickly two things I have in my mind the first one is that if you call me crazy but if like it's vacant for a while, your commercial property, and then like you could use that space. No, often you can't. Oh, you can't. Well, I mean, you could use that space, but it would be completely stripped. And a lot of people, sorry to butt in, a lot of people want to buy commercial property in their superannuation fund, which means you cannot go on that premise. It's not yours to play with.

Oh, you're not allowed to use that money. Yeah, if it's in your superannuation. But yeah, I mean, you could technically use it as yours, but also if it's zoned as commercial, you can't move into it. got you okay because that okay well that cancels out my second thing which was you know those terrace houses yeah you know you can't be living upstairs unless it's zoned that way and it's got residential above commercial which you could do you can't live in a commercial property it's actually illegal very good to know thank you yeah sorry what's the other thing that was my other thing was that like could you get one of those like terrace places where you live up top and

but that is I'm being a bit of a Debbie Downer so I do it let's move on I've got a DM for you would you like to hear it yes please okay hey she's on the money I need some advice because I'm feeling so conflicted my husband and I bought Tesla stock ages ago way before all of the Elon drama we've been open about what to invest in and when Trump got in some friends started saying we'd gained wealth by supporting a racist and now we should sell. Now with the stock dropping, obviously a lot of investors are jumping ship for that reason. I don't agree with Musk's political views, but we had planned to hold long-term. My husband isn't phased. His friends aren't bringing it up anymore, but I feel guilty. Now the drop is confusing me even more. I don't know what to do.

personally i wouldn't have shares in like something something that's that's a kind of like as bad or as like you know i kind of have a lot of etfs and stuff like that that and i don't know where that money's going i'm like kind of like my head's in the sand which is also bad but it's like if there's something that i'm investing in that's unethical it's not as in my sights as like musk is obviously you know supporting trump and i mean i don't want to get into we don't want to get into politics right now but i just recorded a whole episode on that and what you're telling me right now beck is that i know you don't listen to my podcast because i did a whole episode and i discussed trump's tariffs and elon and all of that drama so obviously go back and listen to that

okay but oh but yeah we do want to get into that i don't want to get political but i will explain policy to you of course I think that like on my personally I wouldn't I would not be investing in Tesla right now or anything that's that I know that I can't ignore that I is not you know you did it beforehand so like let's say ages ago you were like oh my goodness like v electric vehicles I've started my investing journey you went and purchased a heap of Tesla stock right and that has been performing for you Beck yeah I love it anymore no so would you sell it I would sell it how much of a loss would you be willing to take to get out of that investment? What if you personally, you lose thousands of dollars by disposing of that stock?

I mean, in an ideal world, I would have been aware of the whole, you know, Elon Musk thing. But you wouldn't have because historically he was seen as an evangelist. Like he was seen as somebody who was doing really cool things. And I mean, there's a lot to him that now, like in hindsight, we all have realised that, oh, he's a bit off on the whole. But like most people buying Tesla, they had no idea. They thought they were investing in the future. Well, I guess not in some deluder. No, totally. As besties with Trump. But I, and I do want to preface all this by saying like, if I had friends who invested in Tesla, I like that so far, I'm like, I'm not at all, you know, kind of going to put my views on them just like for my own personal comfort,

I would be not doing that. But yeah, I guess like, you know, cause we now know about Musk, we now you know whether you're for him against him whatever indifferent it doesn't matter now we have kind of the information so unless I found out I didn't align with him in that way the same day I lost thousands of dollars and I did not know before like if it's a slow descent and I kind of am like oh I don't know if I like this hopefully I'll get it earlier but if it so happened that I lost so much money the exact same day I found out I did not like Musk then I would probably stay in until I made some money back and then got out yeah but it's like the question of like how much are you willing to lose in order to uphold your values which ultimately impacts

your future wealth like it's such a hard thing Jess what would you do it's so hard to discuss ethical investments because obviously no such thing well yeah and it's a deeply personal topic because I would argue that Musk is a very strong example you know like we've seen how he treats women. We've seen how he is, you know, the policies that he's aligning himself with politically, which personally very much go against my own personal value set. But if you look into it more deeply, I would argue that the vast majority of blue chip stocks are held by either individuals or companies that are ethically ambiguous on some level. Like I think that the vast majority of big corporations, in some way, shape or form, are not good. Do you know what I mean? And again,

it really comes down to your personal compass, but whether it's their environmental practices, whether it's the political views held by their senior VPs, whether it's, you know, the way that they treat women, whether it's the gender pay gap, we saw a lot of data come out on that this month. There are all of these ethical issues that I would argue are held by the, maybe the majority is the wrong word, but like a significant portion of the shares that a lot of us are probably investing in either through ETFs or funds, or whether they're individual shares that you've selected because you like what they're doing or where you think they're going. And so I think it can be quite hard to overlay your moral compass along with your goals for the future, because

you would rule out whole industries a lot of the time purely based on, and I'm not saying that that's right or wrong, because I think you, at the end of the day, you really need to do what you're going to feel good about. And so for you, Becky, you've said that I would not feel good holding shares, like for example, Tesla, knowing that they are doing the things that they're doing, knowing that Musk is supporting and et cetera. And I don't think I'm the person to tell you what's right or wrong in that situation. It really comes down to what you think. For me personally, I'm going to be, I'm going to sound like a money hungry person, but I don't know that I would be willing to sell at a significant loss or any loss for that matter. I think that

my future security is something that's really important to me. And would I look to sell once I was in the green potentially, but also I think that it's so hard because I do agree that we should vote with our money. Like, I think that that's something that's really powerful, but I also think that, yeah, like sometimes those things, it's not a Venn diagram or it is a Venn diagram. It is. It is a Venn diagram. It is a Venn diagram, right? It's not. It is. It's not. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Like a good investment is not always going to be ethical in often. I personally believe it isn't entirely. And so it becomes quite complex when you're deciding, well, do I uphold all of my morals or do I look out for future me or do I find a middle

ground? And I mean, I don't have a good answer for you if you can't tell by the way that I'm rambling, but I think that it's really deeply personal. And I think it comes down to what you think. It comes down to what ethical issue it is, because some might be more important to you than others. Like I personally probably would honestly prioritize my future financial security, if I'm honest. That's fair. I don't know if I feel good about that as I'm saying it, but that's honestly the truth. Sorry, I took so long to say that's okay. Cause I was like, I didn't want to interrupt you, but that's okay. Thank you. I love that. I love that. And I think that you guys know that I uphold my values, but I wouldn't sell. I know that Jess, you seem to be having like an internal

conflict of whether you would or you wouldn't. And I don't, I don't because at the end of the day, I invested with intent and my intent was pure from the beginning. And I'm going to uphold that, yeah, I'm probably going to sell later down the track when it's good. Let me like step back for a second. When I was a financial advisor, I had a client come to me who inherited a couple of million dollars and they inherited a couple of million dollars from a grandparent who had invested really aggressively. And that's where the money was made. And they came to me and they were like, I want to go through my share portfolio with you. And I want to sell like most of it because none of it's ethical. And I hate this. I hate that. And I was like, totally like come in,

review the whole thing. So we go through all of this and one of the shares that his grandpa had bought was BHP. And that share was bought so long ago that it was purchased in British sterling. Wow. So that was when he had purchased it, right? So he had held it and continually invested. And do you know what that does to a financial advisor? Yeah. But do you know what that does to a financial advisor who has to calculate the gains and they're like what your capital gains would be payable on that amount. Should you sell it so that I can give you proper financial advice and you're dealing with historic currency in the bin? I hated that. Anyway, I did all the maths and I worked it out and he was going to have to pay so much capital gains tax if he was to sell,

because at the end of the day, like he'd made a lot of money because it was purchased so long ago, but he didn't feel like it was ethical. And so he was in this predicament where it's like, you own this asset and this asset is making you money and this money you're not feeling that good about. So instead of selling, because I was like, dude, like this is going to be a terrible financial decision. We're putting ethics to the side, but now we're overlaying ethics. Are we willing to lose this amount of money? Ultimately the answer was no. And we then worked together to find a solution that was actually, you know, taking all of the money that he was making from BHP because he'd decided that he didn't want to be invested in it anymore. And taking that money that that

company was making and investing it in things that were directly working against BHP. I love that. So that made him feel really good about it. We were investing in areas that were also growing, that were, you know, actually providing really good returns. So he ultimately kept the BHP. We invested in other stuff. And over time, as their dividends were coming in, they were all going over here. And if we could, we were selling off bits and pieces as things happened. If the market dropped or if he had a serious loss in his portfolio, we were able to absorb some of it. So over time, the plan was to sell it down, but not all of it. And I think something like that could absolutely happen. So if you have an investment that you're not adoring or that you feel is a

little bit unethical, but it doesn't make financial sense to dispose of it immediately, like, well, obviously stop investing in it today. Just hold it over there. What are you doing with those profits? Are you investing them in other electronic cars? Are you investing them in other assets that you feel are more ethical? And then maybe let's ride the investment wave, wait until it comes back up and then we can sell it and maybe even do a direct swap, sell it for the same amount that you purchased it for. So like you're just disposing of it and on the same day, invest that money in something else, like make a plan. So I think for me, when I put my financial advisor hat on, instead of just taking into account your like ethical

values, I also need to be like, I need to put future in the best possible financial position. How do we do that? And also make you comfortable with it. So that's probably the analogy slash story that I hope kind of helps you go, Oh, like I don't necessarily have to dispose of everything. I can actually have a positive impact and yeah, put your money where your mouth is. I get it. but also we are not in a privileged world where losing thousands of dollars just because you invested in something and now they're a douche is fair.

Like that is not fair. Like selling your assets and losing money because of him is just going to make you salty long-term. He's laughing all the way to the bank because he's rich anyway. Exactly. Let's wait until he makes us some money, sell the stuff and invest in something else.

I think to Beck's point before though, you said you would never put your opinions on your friends. And I think that's probably the one other element that I would highlight is I really don't think that your friends should be so aggressively, you know, it's one thing to have a conversation where you challenge each other's thoughts and feelings, but it's another to really put somebody down over the choices. Oh no, that's not a friend. A friend doesn't make you feel like trash about decisions that you're making. We asked our friends, we said, we said you've invested in a company, but the CEO starts making

headlines for all the wrong reasons. What do you do? They said, yep, I'm going to sell. Can't support that? 33%. 8% of you said, only if it drops. And 59% of you said, no, a share isn't its CEO. Next question we asked, are ethical investments important to you? 29% of you said, yes, I invest with purpose. 59% of you said, I try, but profit matters. 12% of you said, nope, I'm just here for returns. Iconic. And then we said, hey guys, what's your two cents? First person said, I'm sure if we dig through a lot of CEO closets, we're going to find a lot of skeletons. I completely agree.

Jess ain't wrong. Next person said, separate the art from the artist. Musk sucks, but investing in sustainability is a slay. Yeah. Someone else said, I refuse to let that man take my sanity and my money. Another person said, perhaps you could balance the shares with more ethical company, which is kind of what I was talking about. someone else said there's accepting that no ceo or company is perfect but musk is next level bad

i'd be getting out that's fair yeah that's pretty crazy and i've got two more for you second last is if you saw these headlines and then invested that's sus but i think you're fine yeah that's a good and the last person said your money has power by selling the stock you are sending a message yeah which i think is i know that's what i'm just perpetuating the dilemma right like from my perspective as an ex-financial advisor on the ethical dilemma. I don't want you to lose money because you had your heart in the right place to begin with. Let's just let that balance out over time and dispose of it later. There you go. Well, it's been fun, guys. Thank you for doing another Friday episode with us. We have had a very good time, but we'll see you bright and early on Monday

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