She's On The Money - In Conversation: Jessica Quinn

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Happy Wednesday angels, we hope you enjoyed our Monday In Conversation, and we're back with another one in honour of International Women's Day (or week, as we've decided!) Let us introduce you to the effervescent Jess Quinn who, in her own words, is quite literally a walking miracle. Her body has been completely restructured so that she could survive an aggressive cancer.Jess's leg was amputated just before her ninth birthday, and she has had to adapt to living with a prosthetic leg. The challenges Jess has faced ever since have given her a unique outlook. Growing up, she felt alone in her difference, but she has learnt that the one thing people have in common is that we are all different.She is on a mission to normalise 'different', speaking out on social media, creating diversity through her work as a model and helping people see we have a choice over how we respond to hardship and we just know that with this years IWD theme of Breaking the Bias you'll absolutely adore learning from her journey.Buy Jess's Book "Still Standing: What I've Learnt From A Life Lived Differently": https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/general-books/health-fitness/Still-Standing-Jess-Quinn-9781988547299Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessicaemilyquinn/?hl=enTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jessicaemilyquinn?lang=enThe advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Just before we head into today's episode, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay our respects to Elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness. She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back to our International Women's Week celebration, where we're spending our week talking to women who have a wealth of insight and deep perspective on this year's

theme, which is breaking the bias. Jess, we have been beyond excited to have these deeper conversations instead of our regular scheduled episodes that really touch on the values of our She's On The Money community, because the She's On The Money community isn't unique just because we talk about money. It's really special because we openly share our stories and our vulnerabilities. We share our hopes, we share our dreams, and we love that our community are just as open as we are. So from my perspective, I would say that we always have each other's backs. Absolutely. And we're so thrilled to be joined today by a woman who is absolutely acknowledging vulnerability, facing fears and smashing it along the way. We have model and body positive advocate

Jess Quinn. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. What an honor. Oh my gosh. I am genuinely so excited to have you. We've obviously had a couple of chats historically. And when we were talking about, or when we're going through the brainstorming session of like, who are we going to bring to our community this week? You were front of mind for me and I was just sitting in the room and I was like, Jess Quinn, we have to get her on the show. I am obsessed. So welcome to the show. This is mainly for me. I love that. I love that. I'm very honoured to be here, especially on International Women's Week, as you say. We're reshaping it. We've just decided to do whatever we would like. Love that. Before we get into our questions, I have a whole

heap of questions that we have written down that we would love to ask you about your illness and your childhood and then about your mindset and determination. But before we get there, you and I were having a conversation before we started the podcast off air and I asked, how comfortable are you with the term differently abled, disabled or disable and how should I be referring to that? And our producer, Annalisa, who is just hanging out off screen or off air at the moment, said this would be a really good conversation to be having on the show. So Jess, can you actually talk us through that conversation that we just had? Because it was genuinely enlightening for us to, I guess, hear from you exactly how you like to be referred to.

Yeah, for sure. And the first thing I would say is thank you for asking. I think that's the best thing anyone can do in that kind of situation, whether it's whether you're talking to someone with a disability or someone who is different from you or has different lived experience. I think that's the best thing we can do is just ask. And I think for a lot of people that can be a little bit scary and intimidating. And I don't really know why, as we discussed off air, why that is such a thing, because it is the most respectful thing is to just ask because we don't know each other's lived experiences.

So for me, I don't personally have a preference. I often say differently able to myself, but that's just because I'm in a, I guess, a bigger conversation around my advocacy around normalizing being different. And I have this mindset that, you know, what makes me disabled when every single person on the planet has something that is different about them? So therefore, where does the line sit with disabled in that sense? Because there's things that I can do that are better than many able-bodied people and vice versa. So I guess that's the reason I've adapted to that differently abled is just because of the conversations I often have. But I do often say disabled or about my body and it just depends who I'm talking to and

what kind of comes to my mind at the moment, to be truly honest. But it's such an important conversation and something about disabilities or people in differently abled bodies, if you like, is there, I think, and I talked about this on my TikTok recently because someone said, oh, you should follow a girl called Footless Joe. She's an amputee, speaks about similar things that I speak about. You guys will be best friends. And I was like, just because we both are missing a leg doesn't automatically mean that we're best friends or that we know each other. Whereas everyone assumes that.

But people with disabilities or differently abled bodies, like, I have no idea what it's like to be a double amputee. I have no idea what it's even like to be an amputee who's got a different form of amputation from me or what it's like to be hard of hearing. You know, there's so many different layers of disabilities, which I think is an important part of the conversation. Yeah, that's basically like someone saying, hey, Jess, you're blonde. I have another blonde friend you'd get along so well like it just sounds a bit yeah that feels really ridiculous that someone would say that but I can also see if you don't have an understanding of that they probably just put those two things together and said okay they have a shared lived experience maybe they'll understand each other which I mean kind of sweet but your shared lived

experience of being blonde yeah I can't relate to someone else it's so funny isn't it Jess while we're talking about it, what do you think is missing in the public domain about disability? Wow, so many things. I think just being open to the conversation. I think we are getting there, but something I'm really passionate about is, and I could talk about this for the whole podcast episode, but is accessibility. And I think what many people who have spent most of their life or all of their life so far in an abled body don't understand is that the world is made for them. the world has been built with them in mind and anyone with a disability is an afterthought and for me it's it's different because i feel very independent in my disability because i am able

to get around i don't need too many um assistive devices or people helping me but i have many friends who are in situations where they need that and so it's opened my eyes to realizing you know i go to a cafe and i look around and i'm like my friend in a wheelchair literally could not get into this cafe and that's just something that we don't have a conversation around enough except maybe in the political space or people are talking about it but not as often as I think we need to be so that's something that stands out to me but I think the mission that I'm on is just normalizing and that's really important to me because you know for most of my childhood people with disabilities were painted in a way you know you'd see an ad on tv and it was someone

who had been in a car crash and then they end up in a wheelchair and their life is sad and they're painted in this way you know the minute a person with a disability comes on tv the music drops and it's all sad and then someone in an able body pops on for whatever reason and their character and it's all uplifted and happy and it's just I guess becoming aware of those narratives that we are placing on people without it actually being accurate to the lives they're living you know everyone that I know in a body that is differently abled is living a very happy wholesome life and yes, they have a lot of struggles, but often because they've had those struggles, they have a great perspective. So I think that we really need to continue to focus on changing that narrative

about what it actually means to live in a differently abled body. And Jess, for those in the She's On The Money community that are listening along and going, look, this Jess girl sounds incredible, but I haven't met her before. Why does differently abled apply to you? Like, What is your story? How does this apply to you in your situation? Yeah, for sure. I was eight when I was diagnosed with cancer. So I lived the first eight years of my life

in a really, I guess I was an abled body and I really lived that to my advantage. I was a really athletic, outgoing kid. And then just before my ninth birthday, I broke my femur bone. I ended up in the hospital and eventually they found out that I had an osteosarcoma. And I went through about nine months of chemotherapy

and the decision was made ultimately to amputate my leg. So I am an amputee. I had a very unusual form of amputation called rotationplasty, which is an important part of my story because it differs from so many other experiences. I won't go into detail of that. I would recommend the listeners Google because it's really hard to wrap your head around.

You can absolutely go on Jess's Instagram as well. You have done a very good job of explaining it. And to me, it's mind blowing. It is so cool that science and medicine have come together to facilitate this. It's epic. It's amazing. I often think I'm like, I would love to be a fly on the wall in the conversation when some doctors and surgeons were sitting around in a boardroom and decided to give this a

go. How does that even happen? But yes, I'm an amputee and I've now been an amputee for 20 years. So a huge portion of my life. Wow. That is such a significant portion of your life. But as you said before, I was eight when I was diagnosed and, you know, I broke my leg and I was so active before then. Do you mourn that time when you were a child that you had such freedom or is that something that you go, no, that's not me anymore?

It's a completely different narrative now. A bit of both. I definitely went through a huge phase of mourning and grief and all of the emotions that are around that when I was youngest, particularly through my teenage years. and then now I really struggle to relate to that person because it's been 20 years and I only spent eight years in enabled bodies so I don't even know what it feels like to get out of bed and have both feet touch the floor so I really struggle to relate to that of course I have my moments of of envy and you know mostly when I see you know other people living in their abled bodies and they're going for a run so freely like that's when I probably feel those emotions

and not all the time you know like all of us we have our ups and downs but I think I don't fully relate to that person that I was when I was younger because it just feels so far away I guess I feel like being a kid is hard enough as it is right like childhood and being a teenager and trying to fit in is so challenging already when you're in an abled body and then for you you're going through the extreme you know chemo is so intense as it is and then learning to walk in your new body and learning to function with a completely different set of parameters how did that feel for you yeah it was it was huge I think you know I was really quickly wrapped up in this world that I didn't even know existed and I was living it you know I was going through chemotherapy

as you've referred to and and I was experiencing things that are just absolutely heartbreaking you know I would make friends in the hospital only to come to the hospital the next day and find out my friends are no longer there and you know there's the things that no eight-year-old should have to go through and my life was really um tested very like my cancer was really aggressive and what I went through so I was living in this world really quickly and so each days each phase I went through you know losing my leg and all of that as much as it was really hard it was also just the world that I was now living in and then adapting to it afterwards it was kind of the opposite of that because I'd been living in this really horrible environment for so long and we didn't know if I

would come out of it to then be able to come out of it everything was just amazing you know I just I was just stoked to be back at birthday parties I was just stoked to be able to go to school you know so there wasn't that I guess fear or any thoughts of the future on how it would impact my life because I was so young and naive which is something I'm really grateful for I don't know how people go through it in a, in a age when they have an understanding of the future and they have an understanding of fear and all of that kind of stuff. For me, I'm really lucky that I was so young, but yeah, there was a huge adaption process and, and, and then I became a teenager and we all struggle with our bodies and I had a, I guess a double, a double whammy. As somebody who also

struggled as a teenager, like you definitely had the double whammy. Like I was just self-conscious. I can't imagine going through a situation where you're already just so self-conscious about how you look and how other people look to then go, ah, there's this other thing overlaid over the top of it that's making me feel very different to other people. How, when it comes to mindset, have you always had the positive mindset that I see on TikTok and Instagram and online and on socials? Like, is that who you've always been? Definitely.

I remember nurses in the hospital talking to my parents about my attitude and I was just the happiest bubbliest kid and I think you know it's the kind of nature nurture conversation I think I'm just I'm that way because of what I was surrounded by and because of the support I had and all of that kind of stuff and it was just in me whereas I'm not going to say I've been like that my whole life I really struggled through my teenage years and I've really struggled in the last couple of years again with some stuff that I've been through and so I don't want to paint the picture that I'm I'm positive poly 100% of the time because my situation and other situations that arise really do get me down, but I naturally have a outlook on life that I read a quote once

and it's, it doesn't matter if there's water, if the glass is half full or half empty, all that matter is that there's water in the glass. And that's kind of how I've looked at life, I guess. But yeah, I have my days as we all do. A hundred percent. And I feel like people like you, who we spoke about just before around how the picture is painted of people who are differently abled in traditional media and historically has been done that way. I feel like having people like you and there are so many others in this space as well, really showing your truth and your journey. And, you know, there are bad days and everybody has bad days. And just because your experience is maybe different from mine doesn't mean that you do need to be positive all of the

time. I think there's so much power in publicly sharing that journey so that people can have a better understanding. At what point did you realize, I guess, that you had the power to make that impact because you've got a pretty decent following online now. You've absolutely touched the lives of so many people. And I have no doubt that there are many little girls out there going through experiences similar to yours that look at you and go, oh my gosh, like it's okay. Like there's someone like me out there and being able to identify with someone publicly is so important. And that's why representation absolutely needs to continue to shift. Did you set out with the intention to be that person or was it kind of just an organic thing that happened?

It was definitely organic in terms of social media and all of that kind of stuff. I had a photo shoot that went viral overnight and just found myself with this audience that for a long time I didn't really know what to do with. But in saying that, and without sounding too woo-woo, I always had this feeling inside of me that I was going to use my story in some kind of way. I just didn't know what that looked like. And then I fell into the space of social media and it's been a challenge at the best of times as social media is but it has given me this platform where I can reach people and I can share my story and I can live my truth in the hopes of being as you say that person that we don't see enough out there so yeah a bit of both but definitely

I didn't imagine it ever becoming what it has become and I just knew that if I could just tell my story hopefully I could reach one person and I'm just really lucky that I've been able to reach more than one, I guess. My friend, that does not sound woo-woo at all. Like I haven't even gone through the types of experiences that you have. And when it comes to financial literacy and, you know, now I feel like I've found my quote calling and this feels really good and it nourishes everything I do. I always knew that I wanted to do something, something that impacted others. I wasn't sure how I was going to do that. I wasn't sure what that looked like. And I guess that's why I fell into psychology. And I was like, you can impact people in psychology.

Didn't work out for me. That's absolutely fine. But I feel like some people just have this underlying sense of, no, I don't know what it's going to be, but it's going to be some kind of advocacy. It's going to be some kind of impact because that's where I get my joy from. How did you get the confidence to step into this advocacy space? It's not something that, you know, a lot of people would be confident to do. You're opening yourself up to a lot of criticism. A lot of people online aren't as kind as I believe they should be. But how did you take those first few steps towards becoming this advocate that you are now? I think because I fell into the space, in a space I didn't understand completely. I never really associated the number of followers

with actual people I just had the confidence to kind of just yarn my life away and and I was just telling my truth you know I was just telling my story whether it would be you know I was at the gym that day and I didn't really realize when I first started that I was inspiring other people because I was just living my life and I guess there is a whole other conversation we could have on inspiration porn around that because it is a thing but I think because of my unique surgery that I went through as a kid I've always been put in scenarios where I have had to talk about it and I have had to speak up because I've kind of been a guinea pig if you like and you know as a kid I was going to convention-y things with my surgeon just showing my leg or I would have an appointment

and I would have 15 doctors in the room not just one because I was a medical rarity if you like so I've kind of always been in this space where I guess my life has always been shared with other people. And because of that, I think I just feel comfortable. And I think because I went through such a hard time as a teenager, becoming comfortable in my skin, I am now just confident enough to share that with others, I guess. That's a weight to carry though, at the same time as, you know, going, oh, I can share this, like that could be a burden. Do you ever find that, you know, sharing so much of your life and sharing so much of yourself, which is arguably incredibly personal like do you find that that is a burden sometimes or does it feel too heavy

yeah I'm gonna be honest and I've probably not talked about this a lot recently but I am in a space at the moment where it's really heavy and I want to be honest because I know she's on the money as a really safe space and I think it's important we talk about this because you know I'm on TikTok now and I am seeing every second post I see is how to become an influencer look at my PR packages look at this and really glorifying the space which yes there are so many perks of it but the weight that you carry being in the public or if you're an advocate sharing something that is really heavy something that isn't just unique to you is a real big burden and especially if it's something personal because you know I struggle to separate I guess my public

life with my private life and I am really private online which some people who follow me will be like no you're not but I don't share many things outside of my leg and those experiences you know I'm not sharing my family or my partner I'm really specific on my advocacy but even then it's really hard for it to not be heavy because you know I'm I see a therapist because I think it's really important to do so and you know I have all of these conversations where I'm constantly actually reliving the trauma that I went through as a kid and I've been in this space for probably six years now in the social media space and it's only something I'm just realizing now that you know some days I go to post something and I'm like you know what I don't I actually don't need to

talk about this today it's it's also my space and I get to set those boundaries which is really important but when you really want to keep advocating it's really hard to stop and you know I had a situation last night where I spoke out about something that is really important to me and 95% of the people actually 99% of the people came back in a really positive manner except for one. And that one caused me so much anxiety and made me question everything that I'm doing, which is ridiculous because we all, we all know not to worry about the one. There's always one. But that's so easy to tell a friend, right? Like if you and I had this conversation and I'm very, very similar, I'd struggle a lot with the burden that visibility gives us. And I mean,

you've got it completely different to me, but in this influencer space, like I never set out to be an influencer and it can be really heavy when people trust you. And I get that. And I'm so grateful to have that level of trust, especially with my community. But that means they often open up in a way that you wouldn't usually to someone online. And, you know, for me, especially on TikTok, where people are so nasty, they are nasty pasties and it is not fun. It's so easy to say to a friend, oh, you just don't care about the haters. But then later, you're like oh my gosh are they right like they're crazy but are they right and it's it's awful like it's an awful feeling to have where one person even though you're saying 99 others was so positive

and so supportive it's funny how even one small comment can knock you off your perch completely totally and I I relate to that so much and I relate to what you're saying about TikTok because I'm new on there and I've never received so many disgusting comments in my life and I think especially being someone in a different body people just think they can comment as much as they like on that but I also think with the social media conversation and it's something that I used to talk about in the way to encourage others to not get caught up in it but something I've realized that influences or my experience I have gotten caught up in is the is the instant gratification because you know I'm telling my story and let's put two posts next to each other one talking about

my lifestyle and one talking about my leg the one about my leg does a million times better and so therefore how do i not attach my worth to my story so deeply when i'm getting that validation and that's something that i'm working through on my own because you know instant gratification is something that i try to speak about in a way that we shouldn't get caught up in but when it's your job and you know your kpi if you like is your story and it's something so raw about yourself how do you then detach yourself from that being the only part of your identity and that's something that I think is also really important in the social media space. And I find that so interesting more on a personal level, because I obviously have discovered you because of your advocacy,

but I now follow you because of your personality. Like to me, we sat down as a team and we were having this conversation about, you know, diversity and bringing diverse people to the table and people who are advocating. And you came up, but you only came up after we were talking about advocate. So I'm like, oh, Jess is an advocate. Oh yeah. Oh my God. She'd be perfect because it wasn't the first thing I thought of, but I can see how if people aren't as involved in your personal life and they may be just really pervy and don't understand being differently abled and don't understand how that could work, how I guess the draw card is very different to who you are as a person. And to me, like the important part is who you are as a person, but that's not always

what people view. Totally, 100%. And I think, especially when I'm trying to keep my private life reasonably separate, you know, if I shared everything on social media, there'd be parts of my life that other people link with, whether it's the fact that I like skincare or whatever it might be, you know, whereas because I just share my advocacy, it's hard to not let that become the whole part of my identity. Jess, I am equally as obsessed with skincare, but it turns out that's not what everybody wants to see on social media. So let's go to a break because we have a number of questions for you about the beauty industry and bias and unconscious bias and how that impacts you. So don't go anywhere. We will be right back. And we're back and we're talking to Jess Quinn,

who is a model, an author, body positivity advocate, all-round outstanding gal. But we were chatting just before about how social media, people can be really mean and they forget that there's a person sitting behind that screen reading their comments. And I think as a woman, there are certain standards that we are held to, particularly when it comes to beauty or, you know, what the ideal woman looks like that have existed for so long. And now we're in a place where people like you are really working to break that bias and show that beauty comes in all different shapes and different sizes. But let's talk about difference and otherness in this industry, because you're saying you love skincare and, you know, the influencer industry really

leans into that side of things. What has your experience been like in that space? Have people and brands and businesses always been really open and accepting to you? Or is that something that you really had to carve a way out? I've been really lucky to be really accepted in this space and why that is, I'm not sure, but I'm very grateful for that. I think, you know, I also live in New Zealand, which is a lot smaller. Therefore, you know, there is not as many people in this space so I think that has been I guess an advantage that I can't ignore but I think it's definitely been a challenge you know I have a modeling agency in America that I clearly haven't worked with for a couple years because you know and I also have one in Australia same reason

haven't worked with them for a while but it has been interesting to navigate those different markets and that's more probably on a modeling scale rather than an influencer scale but you know in terms of social media and brand deals and that kind of stuff I have been really lucky in that space but I have to acknowledge that I have come in at a time where brands are forcing themselves to be diverse therefore it is easier to get work when they need that representation I guess so that has been great but at the same time I am very good at seeing the difference between brands who are doing it to tick a box and brands who are doing it because they genuinely intend to make a change and to help and to represent. And tokenism is something that I have experienced.

I was about to ask that. I was about to be like, okay, so totally. And that's such a great thing. And I adore seeing so much diversity, but a mile off just as a consumer, I can see it as being tokenistic sometimes as the model. Like, how are you dealing with that? How are you taking that on board because I would be genuinely offended if someone was like we just needed a financial advisor like oh like I can't imagine if it was something even more personal about me yeah I mean you turn up to a photo shoot or I've done a few runway shows and you know there is a very thin white blonde model lineup and then you who is an amputee like okay I clearly you know I'm clearly standing out here which you know and people think I would be really offended and I've had this

conversation around tokenism a bit and to be honest I think a step forward is a step forward regardless of how far forward and I think you know I could do that runway show and there is someone in the audience there could be one person or one young person watching that who sees me and feels better about themselves so yes it would be better if there was 50 percent or 60 percent of models who were diverse in some kind of way but at least there's one you know and so i think we have to as much as yes there are brands out there doing it a lot better we have to also recognize the brands that are trying and even if it's a tick box which i don't agree with but even if it's a tick box we have to see it from the young person looking at that going oh wow there's different

bodies out there even if they're only seeing one different body and that's something that i think is really important i know um i spoke up recently victoria secret models victoria secrets who is a brand I have spoken very publicly about many times and I'm not afraid to no keep that up my friend oh no I don't agree with pretty much everything that they do but they are trying to rebrand and they recently just announced a model with down syndrome and I spoke up and shared it saying this is a really great step forward this is awesome and I had a lot of comments saying this just doesn't seem right this seems tokenistic this seems you know they've already done their harm they can't move forward blah blah blah and I agree with that but at the same time there is

young people with Down syndrome out there who will look at this young woman in a in a position that wouldn't have been painted in that light many years ago and to me that's that's a big achievement and we have to create space for these brands to take that step forward instead of shutting them down oh you're not diverse enough oh now you're not doing this enough now you're not doing that you know I think we need to create the space for it to actually just be okay to take even half a step forward, you know? Yeah. And small steps, they're still steps, right? And it's such a beautiful mindset that you have that you're like, you know what, I'm going to push their tokenism to the side because I'm still having an impact. Even if it's just one person that sees a photo a year

later, like they're going to have been impacted by the work that I'm doing. And I just think that not many people would see things the way that you do. They might be offended that they're the token, I guess, ringing, but that's not how you're seeing it at all. And I just have so much respect for that, especially in a world where, you know, we're seeing so many different brands being thrown under the bus on a weekly basis for not being diverse, because you know that if they then start to be diverse and start to take those small steps and start to include more diverse models in their marketing or, you know, expand their size range or do something that is good for the greater good, they're going to be slammed as tokenistic anyway, because the first step is

always the step that is most harshly criticized. And yeah, I really, really respect the way that you're viewing that because, you know, it could go one of two ways, right? Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I fully agree. I feel like Victoria's Secret is also a really great example of a brand that did absolutely the bare minimum, right? Like they built up this fantasy woman who, as you said, they all look the same. They were all tall. They were all really skinny. They were all this quote unquote, idealistic woman. And the reason that brand really toppled over was because at some point everyone just turned around and went, actually, that's not good enough. And I want to

talk about in 2018, you really spearheaded a movement that demanded that magazines disclose retouching, right? Because that really contributed to that idealistic person where women were aspiring to look like someone who didn't even look like that themselves. Yeah. Like it's so unattainable and it's just setting us up to fail, which is really, really horrific. I wanted to talk about what the response was like when you first started opening up that discussion and how far along that kind of got. Yeah, it's still something I'm really deep in and really passionate about and share all the time because I keep thinking like, okay, I'm going to stop talking about this because I feel like we've made our change. And I see things and I'm like, we are no way near

apologize we aren't even close and you know I at the beginning I had a sorry I still have a really great response it has been for the most part and I have to look at the most part a really great response but it definitely brought up some really interesting conversations especially when I first started speaking really publicly about it and I did a lot of media and the hit back I got and not not bad hit back but just you know I'd be on a presentation kind of tv news show and you know you'd have the middle-aged man presented being like how's it any different from the makeup you have on your face right now and I'm like okay this is like a really deep conversation that yeah and there are so many layers to to all of this and it's definitely been challenging I'm

working on a project at the moment that will hopefully educate because then we can create the change because I think that's the issue is we actually don't know the depth of what is being caused and how it's impacting us and young people and I just I just don't think it's right that we especially in photo shoots you know you see these really diverse photo shoots get their own photoshop so it's kind of like you can be curvy but wait that curves a bit much and this curves a bit much or you know when I got photoshopped it was they removed half of my moles I had quite a few moles and it was like you can have some of your moles but actually the out that you have is just like a bit too much. But the audacity to take that initiative to do

that. Like, I feel awkward. I was out the other night for a drink with one of our team members on a Friday night. We'd had a really good week at work. We're like, let's go get a drink. And I wanted to change the lighting on the picture. And I held my phone in front of her and I was like, all right, Rache, is that all right if I just change the lighting? And she's like, yeah, that's fine. I was like, I felt so uncomfortable. But the fact that an entire agency just was like, do you know what? We're just going to erase these parts of Jess that make Jess Jess. That to me, that's audacious and incredibly rude. But the fact they didn't even ask for permission, what? I know. I've spoken to other models about it before as well,

especially, you know, because Photoshop, Photoshop is a brand, but image retouching happens post-op, but it actually also happens during the shoot you know they're wearing maybe a size large t-shirt when they maybe fit a small and then they pull it in in different ways to get the fit right so often we're buying clothes that actually don't fit like how it fits on the model right so there's so many yeah like I read a thing once about Victoria's Secret and they would put push-up bras on the models underneath the bikinis and then remove the push-up bra in photoshop so that it looks like they have these really perky boobs and I was like gravity does not treat my boobs like that oh neither girl neither it's like how are they so big but still so perky it literally defies gravity

totally I don't know what they figured out that we don't know but it's it's photoshop turns out it's invisible bras yeah totally it just goes really deep I guess and so my conversation that I am still having is a around education and b around disclosure you know do what you want to your image as a brand as an influencer whatever you want but please disclose it you know because there is young women out there who are comparing themselves to that image and wondering why they're not good enough, comparing themselves to a body that actually doesn't exist, which is just so detrimental. And I don't know if people understand the direct correlation that it's having with mental health issues and so many things that young people are going through at the moment.

And I just don't know. It's something that we can stop, you know? All right. Let's loop this conversation back around to the purpose we've asked you to be here today for and that's International Women's Day and celebrating that and celebrating you and celebrating the impact that people are having in this space and you know even just how far women have come like it blows my mind even talking to people like my mum who weren't afforded the same opportunities that I am today and you know the fact that she says things like oh I would have embraced that with open arms like oh if that opportunity had existed for me I would have smashed it out of the park and it just breaks my heart that she wasn't afforded these things

and in 2022 we are but we've still got so far to go so I would love to know from your perspective what does equality look like? This is such a big question because it is such an important question and I do think equality is allowing opportunity for people to live their truth and to live their truth without judgment and to live their truth in a world where it is safe for them to do so and I think for many of us who and I'm going to include myself in this who have lived a really privileged life don't actually know the depth of what that means because there are so many people out there who experience things and many women in different cultures experience things that we will never even understand and so I think we often think we've got into a place where

and yes I agree we've made so many steps forward but I think we think we're maybe further along than we are because of our own personal experiences and the reason I mean I'm considered a minority because I live in a differently abled or disabled body but my disabled body has pretty much never stopped me getting any form of opportunity it's never really hugely impacted my friendship groups it's never hugely impacted my career or my dating life or anything like that and there are so many people out there who don't have that experience. And until all of those people feel like their opportunities are the same, then I don't think we've reached that sense of equality. And I think it's really hard because I do think it looks really different for a lot

of people. Therefore, I don't believe there's one easy answer or one easy outcome. But I think we have come such a long way. And as you say, it's actually such a short space of time, which gives me so much hope that we can continue to create those opportunities as long as we keep speaking and having these really open conversations about people or to people with different lived experience from us. Jess, I couldn't agree more. And to link this to somebody else who works in the same advocacy space as you do by not saying you would be friends just because you're in the same advocacy space, although he does sound like a pretty sick human that I would like to know even better. But in his incredible speech after being named Australian of the Year, Dylan Alcott

actually spoke about the dire statistics of underemployment of people with different abilities and the ingrained ableism in the workforce. Do you have a view on that? And what can be done by businesses to be even more inclusive? Yeah, and I agree. I would love to be best friends with Dylan. We have had a few conversations. I love everything that he advocates for and stands for I think it's a really important conversation and again it's something that I haven't experienced too much in my life because I really haven't been overly held back by my disability and that's something that I am really in a minority for because a lot of people living in disabled bodies or differently abled bodies do experience it a lot and I think the best thing we can do and it

probably wraps in with what you were saying at the start around the open dialogue we had around language is to be really inclusive in that and something i speak a lot about is is diversity and inclusion but in the sense that you can't have one without the other you know we can be as diverse as possible we can hire people of different ethnicities of different abilities whatever it might be we can hire people different from us but if we aren't including them in a way that we're actually giving them equal amounts of opportunities that we're actually giving them a voice at the table then are we really being diverse or are we just checking a box and that's something I feel really passionately about because I would argue that many businesses and many

people these days are just checking the box because they aren't actually being inclusive and I honestly think inclusivity can look as small as having a conversation with someone who is different from you and going out for lunch with them in your lunch break at work you know it doesn't have to be these huge big play moves but it's it's seeing each other as humans regardless of the way we differ and I think that that is really important because there are workplaces out there who I just don't think are making it as welcoming as it should be and making it as accommodating as it should be you know there's there's different cultures who might have different dress codes and they need to create that really safe space for people to be able to show up as

they are because when you can show up exactly as you are you can put your best foot forward you can put your best work forward you can create your best relationships whereas if you're being held back or not feeling like you can truly show up as you then you don't have those opportunities to do that. And yeah, that's something I strongly believe. I work for myself, so I haven't experienced it hugely. My boss being myself, it's really great and very accommodating. What's the dress code at your workplace like? Oh, currently I'm in track pants and a hoodie. Oh, very nice. That's usually my dress code as well. There's not very many bras around here. It's pretty chill. No, since COVID, I don't even know what that word is anymore. I know, I know. Jess, I feel like this

has been such a beautiful chat that a lot of our community are going to get a lot out of. So thank you so much for joining us. But before we go, you mentioned before that right now is a little bit tough on social media for you. You're feeling it a little bit harder, a little bit heavier than you have historically. And I think a really nice place to leave it would be a question. And that question is, what would you say to people who are going through a similar period, whether that is work life or their relationship where they've just got it a little bit rough and they just feel like they aren't as bright as they usually are? I'd say take time for you. I think the best thing we can do is actually just slow down. I delete social media. I sit on the couch sometimes. We live in a world

where it's hustle, hustle, hustle, but it's also okay to not do that all the time. And yes, most of us have to show up to our nine to five. I respect that. But trying to do those small things for you that make you feel like you again I think are really important and not feeling like you have to be a voice and advocate for everything because there is a lot going on in the world at the moment and it can be really hard to to handle that when we haven't actually fully wrapped our head around around what's going on so definitely taking that time and showing up for yourself is I think the most important thing we can do and knowing that it will get better because you know I have been in places in my life where I couldn't see a light at the end of the tunnel. In fact, I didn't

actually want to be in that tunnel anymore. But I knew that I could hold on because I knew there was a life out there for me that was just amazing. And I think no matter what place you're in right now, just holding on to the hope that things will get better because they always do, or at the very least, you get stronger. I love that so much. And thank you for sharing that with our community, because not everyone is on the same journey at the same time but to wrap this up completely jess coming back around to why you're here it's international women's day or according to she's on the money it's international women's week how are you celebrating i love i love the international women's week and that's one of the things i'm going to do to celebrate i'm going to

celebrate it for a whole week but i'm going to connect with other people who have stories that are different from mine and different lived experiences and use this week as a time to remind myself of all of the different humans that create our world because I think that's one of the most important things we can do to remind each other that we're all human. Thousand percent and if people want to learn more about your journey and about your story they can find you on Instagram, on TikTok, we'll link it all down below. You also have your book Still Standing, What I've Learned from a Life Lived Differently which is such a great read. I personally have read it and I so thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it to everybody listening. Definitely check that out.

be kind online lift up those voices I think and just really encourage that conversation around beauty around visibility around accessibility all of those things we promise Victoria Devine is an authorized representative of In Focus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47097797049 AFSL 236523 Thank you.