She's On The Money - Investing 101: The name's bond, ASX bond

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Happy deep dive Wednesday! This week on part 2 of our 4 part investing 101 series, G & V are talking all things fixed interest investments, answering community Q’s and discussing why olives definitely should not be featured in any kind of martini. Joining you this week you’ve got Victoria Devine and everybody’s favourite human Georgia King. Do you love the podcast SICK and want more SOTM? Course ya do. Join our Facebook page to share your money wins and money confessions, follow us on Insta for daily inspo to keep you on track and DEFINITELY subscribe to our newsletter, the written recap of the pod's key takeaways, including some bonus bits you won't want to miss.Finally, if you're in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we've got you sorted - simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast!The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Today is part two of our four-part deep dive series into investing and, ever so excitingly, today's focus is all on fixed interest what a dream georgia king well it is a dream and judging from the conversations being had in our facebook group this is the form of investing of the four that we're going to be talking about that collectively we just seem to know the very least about so big things ahead now i know i definitely have a lot to learn in this space as full disclosure when we were having this chat with ryan john and jess a couple of weeks back

when you spoke about bonds i was like does she mean like house rental bonds don't ask that question don't ask that question don't ask that question um sorry i mean that bond that i give for my property legit so if you're listening and you're like that's where your mind went i'm with you um but by the end of today you will be a certified fixed interest pro rattling off the difference between corporate and government bonds as well as why their face value price can fluctuate People will genuinely mistake you as a financial advisor. So you could be in trouble with your day. Yeah, I could get in a whole heap of trouble.

Imagine if they actually thought that. Yeah. Crazy. I feel like it's a dead giveaway though. Yeah. Having a disclaimer at the end of the podcast. Yeah, that's true. That's okay.

That's okay. Okay, so we should get into introductions in case you don't know who we are. My name is Georgia King. I'm a copywriter and journalism student. And as always, I'm joined by financial advisor, millennial money expert, Victoria Define. Thank you. Legit financial advisor, by the way, if you knew around here, friend. We promise, as we say at the end of every episode.

We're also joined today by our delightful community engagement specialist, Lucy the Sheepadoodle, who is in the background woofing along. Here she is. Let's get her on. How are you, Lucy? Just kidding. She can't talk. She's a dog.

Anyway, great start to today's show. to kick us off, Bea, can you give us a little recap of what fixed interest is before we get right into it? As I said, what a dream. Of course I can. So, fixed interest, it refers to fixed interest income assets, friends, and they are government and corporate bonds which are generally classified as pretty damn stable low-risk returns. So, the basic gist of these bonds is you basically lend money to the government. It's not when you pay money for your bond when you get your first rental property and then you might not get it back if you forgot to steam clean the carpets or your dog chewed the wall but they pay back with interest and that interest is paid back

in regular installments over the life of that bond so in the asx russell investment report australian bonds averaged 6.2 in gross returns per year over the last 10 years that's pretty good i think that's not bad not bad good size so i think it's one of those things that we don't know a lot about but could actually be a really powerful asset to us in our investment portfolios if it matches our risk profiles. So these are super popular because they commonly have super high liquidity which is just a fancy word for being able to pull your money out quickly as they're easy to sell and I think that that's really important. So liquidity is going to be the word of the week this week because it's one of those words that people throw around because it does

actually have an impact on the stability of your investment portfolio. For example, if you have property, that's pretty hard to pull your money straight out. You can't just sell a bathroom and be like, hey, I'd like another $20,000 so I can go on a holiday or I have an emergency that I do require a large amount of cash for and can I sell the kitchen sink? That's not an option with property in fact property is only worth what somebody is going to pay you for it and that's a point of sale so you could have to go through an entire real estate campaign once or twice to even sell a property and I think that's really worthy of taking into consideration where with a bond you can essentially just elect to sell it and in three business days on average that money

will be back in your account worth taking into consideration so the level of risk is small in this space however when choosing a company rather than an Australian government that risk does increase so as we said before there are like corporate and government bonds government bonds are where you lend money to the government corporate bonds are where you lend money to corporates so all bonds have what we call a face value which is essentially the set value when they are first distributed and that is how much you're going to pay for the bond so that could typically be between a hundred and thousand dollars per bond and you'll get that amount back plus the interest when the bond has reached maturity so when I say reached maturity we're talking about

if you buy a three-year bond you're just finishing that entire term so if you sell early though you'll just receive the market value back so if you buy a hundred dollar bond and you're expecting you know three percent return you'll get your three dollars on that bond but if you cancel it and want your money back early yes it's liquid but you won't get that three dollars you'll just get what you put in back okay which more or less puts you in the position you started in initially so not the worst outcome lucy see the sheep doodle is um literally chewing the table chewing the table girl do your job you're meant to be monitoring the community you guys said you wanted a community manager you did not say what type of community manager you wanted you've got

to be more specific at least she's stunning you know so the price of the bond comes down to supply and demand essentially with market interest rates impacting the price most significantly the duration of a bond and the credit risk of the issuer also play a part in the price of the bond which is important as well so fixed interest bonds and indexed bonds move in the other direction to the market interest rates so if market interest rates rise the price of these bonds fall and vice versa which is kind of interesting so how long do these bonds how long do you need to be locked into them is it a one-year thing like a term deposit kind of duration or is it like 20 years so this actually varies significantly based on which bond you purchase so i know you can purchase

bonds which are one year you could purchase a five-year bond or you could even purchase a 10-year bond it completely depends on what bond that was issued for and how that actually works out so there are lots and lots of them on the market you just have to know where to look okay so well speaking of how do you actually do it if someone is like this sounds like a hot deal bonds aren't what i thought they were 007 yeah what do they do bit more sexy than you thought my friend speaking of i had a martini over the weekend oh was putrid um but really it hit me hard anyway that's beside the point actually like martinis with olives in them is that a thing i had it was olive brine vermouth olives and gin and you drank that i felt sophisticated but

like after five minutes i was pretty much passed out on the couch they are strong I don't want to drink olive brine like that's the stuff that was the best part though are you serious I'm not kidding they're not great I am I am partial to a margarita though I feel like that yeah that's a better option and maybe next time you should have requested one of those yes 100% for our Friday drink episode yeah exactly um I mean it is a Bond episode though so you probably should stick to them yeah you're right all right back to uh sorry so when it comes to starting with bonds the first thing you need to do is choose what way you're going to do it and you do have a few options you can invest in individual bonds you can also invest in ETFs which sometimes hold

bonds and you can also do it with your super or you can do it in managed funds there are lots and lots of different ways there is not just one way and I'm going to recap what these are because I think that went over the heads of a lot of people first thing that I think we maybe wouldn't have understood not because we're idiots literally just because we've never spoken about this properly on the podcast before and it's not something that we discuss regularly at all in our community and that is a managed fund this is different to an ETF these are not the same things the method is similar to bond ETFs the only difference being you have a fund manager looking after you and selecting the bonds and other securities to suit your needs so an ETF often follows an index or

follows you know a market average or is a collective of a lot of different shares that make up that portfolio a managed fund is more active and it has a specific fund manager running it that's a person who runs the fund and they are in charge of essentially getting really good performance but the fees on these funds are often higher than the fees on ETFs because you're paying for that little service. Yes and so an ETF is often a more accessible way to start investing whereas a managed fund often has higher prices that you need to be paying to get in. So a managed fund might have a minimum investment of $10,000 to begin whereas an ETF you can kind of just go and buy into an ETF for a very low price point. Right and is that so managed funds do you access those

on the asx as well or do you need is your financial advisor so your financial advisor or broker okay so a financial advisor is not your fund manager yeah they are different your financial advisor will help you pick a managed fund that is right for you and they will actually oversee the whole process and make sure that fund manager is doing what they're doing and they'll compare the fund managers together and make sure that you're always getting the best deal so for me managed funds are really cool but they are more expensive they definitely have a higher level of you know activeness they're actually a lot more active than what an etf is in terms of switching things out and changing things and you know what's going on internally you do pay a premium for it though

however more often than not performance is there okay it's completely up to you but i think it's important to understand the difference between the two so individual bonds are the next thing I want to talk about where you buy directly from the issuer or the company. This is a similar purchase to purchasing an IPO, which I know you're looking at me quite strangely. I don't know what that is. That's a lot of this episode. I don't know, but now I'm understanding. So talk me through it. I'm trying to start introducing more words that you guys will see because I know that we distill things down, but there's a lot of jargon in this. Yeah. This season we're talking about investment and if we're going to start talking about investment we need to use the right

terms and you guys need to understand them properly so an IPO is an initial public offering so that is the process of offering shares from a private company to the public in a new stock issuance so it's like if they're being listed like that's super exciting for them but it'll be the very first time that they list on the market therefore more often than not people see a really great opportunity to buy a share of a company that is just listing on the market for the very first time because they feel like maybe that share is either undervalued or going to perform really well or there might be some other really shiny benefits to buying into an IPO but an IPO is an initial public offering and it's essentially buying a share for the very first time it hits

the share market. Cool I get it. Yeah kind of fun anyway it's fun following stuff like that because seeing companies list on the share market is literally so exciting because the growth behind them and like I'm going to get off on a tangent because I'm genuinely just passionate about this area but like last year adore beauty listed on the share market so they went through the IPO process and just really fun to watch and just other people getting involved and talking about what shares they're buying and how many you can buy and often there's like a cap of what initial investors can actually purchase in with yeah so to me as a financial advisor and someone who is really interested in this space like i wanted to know the nitty-gritty yeah what are they offering why

are they only offering that like what's their initial share price how does that work like what does that compare to in comparison to other companies that might be somewhat similar i remember um when we were doing our beauty episode with hannah and joe you were talking to hannah or joe can't remember and i think i assumed you were talking about a beauty product and i was just like glazed over but there you go it was stock stuff there you go but it is actually really cool anyway that's a bit off tangent but my friends you now know what an IPO is exactly right and it's actually a really cool process like and if we start putting examples into what these terms are I think they make more sense to us yes like it's one of those things where you might have

heard that before or you might have seen it somewhere but you just go what the hell like I don't understand like who cares about an IPO like it was all over the news nobody explains it or lets you know why that might be actually of interest to you or why that might be of interest in general do you know what I mean like it's actually really fun when you get down to it you know what it means yeah and people actually take away the jargon they go okay cool this is what it's called but this is actually how it works moving on yeah so individual bonds can anyone buy them yes you can go and purchase a bond if you've got some money and you'd like to put it into a bond you can buy direct from the person issuing them or the company issuing them and it

is a non-issue beautiful all right so what were the other two ways we had super etfs i think we do we've got superannuation so you can access bonds through your super and it's also highly probable that you already own a bond in your superannuation because a lot of super companies see bonds as a really stable way to introduce some income into your portfolio with less risk and a lot of you I know because there's a very popular finance book that exists that recommends a certain super fund that also recommends a certain profile that profile has bonds in it and it's it's not a bad thing at all it gives you a bit more stability so often and I talk about risk profiling all the time and I get so many messages about it it is coming friends

I'm putting something together about risk profiling so we can fully understand it together but essentially if you have a if you have a share portfolio right I'm going off on a tangent again because this is like this is my time to shine friends like I love this stuff if you have a share portfolio and you're a high risk investor. It sounds risky, I promise you it's not. Often your portfolio is just made up of a lot of shares. You maybe won't have too many bonds, you won't have much cash sitting in there because risk means you're more willing to put your money into the share market than you are to put it in cash. Whereas someone who is a more conservative investor, like they don't actually want all their money exposed to the share market. They want their

money you know very very well diversified it's not to say the high risk person is not diversified because they'd be diversified well in the share market but when you are a lower risk person or profile you get put into this bucket where you have just a different mix of assets that provide a lower income but hold lower lower risk so often someone who is low risk will actually hold identical shares to someone who is high risk it's just that that high risk person holds let's say 99% shares and maybe your share portfolio only holds 30% and then you can maybe have 30% bonds and like the rest of your portfolio is made up in cash. So I think it's important to understand that just because someone is high risk, it doesn't mean they're buying risky shares. And that's why,

and I say this to my clients, that's why I say I am a very conservative high risk investor. so i i am high risk because i want a lot of my assets and my wealth to be exposed to the share market because i want that growth and i've got time to actually put behind that but i only want to buy tried true tested companies i'm not here to take a punt i'm not here to buy into new companies because to me that risk is far too great i actually just want to see capital stable businesses that have really great future prospects that give me growth and income even if that means that share isn't tesla or after pay everything you've done matches your risk profile right yes i just feel like i've never really thought about it like that i wouldn't have thought of you as like a high risk

investor but you're saying that it's in a conservative way it just makes so much more sense now yeah like i am very conservative because i'm here for the long term and i actually want things to be stable but I want a higher level of return than having just a bond and that's why we're talking about these things because I think it's important for you to understand they suit me because I do own bonds but I own a small percentage of bonds in comparison to shares but I also have clients who solely own bonds like I was doing a webinar last week with Glenn James from My Millennial Money one of my friends love him to death but he owns bonds because that suits him his entire investment portfolio is majority bonds did you talk about that yeah we spoke about that

on the webinar but also you're just giving away his like personal financial situation no so he loves bonds but there's also just different types of bonds that are issued so they are a really great option if shares maybe scare you a little bit too much and you want to be a little bit more conservative these are an option that i want you to take into consideration not because I'm here selling them being like oh my god buy a bond I'm actually here saying could you please understand every single aspect of your opportunity so that you make the right decision for you you might say look shares aren't my thing Victoria but you know what my friend at least you know they exist and that is an active choice I do not want any of you getting to 65 and going oh I'm

considering retiring oh my gosh I wish I'd known about investment you're making the right choice for you and only you can do that feeling inspired over here the last one is ETFs that we want to chat about quickly they give us a little summary oh ETFs I feel like you could give me a spiel on this that is okay so an ETF is an exchange traded fund and they are a low cost way to start investing in a well diversified way did that rhyme that was pretty good thank you thank you but it's essentially you buying a basket of shares or assets that are already pre-allocated and already pre-diversified so if you go and purchase one individual share you've only got exposure to that one company and that one industry whereas if you go and buy an ETF that's often made up of a lot

of different shares from a lot of different industries so if like mining for example and I don't actually invest in mining so that's probably a really bad example we'll also do an episode on ethical investing because that's something I'm really wildly passionate about but let's just say for example you're investing in mining because I think when we say investment a lot of people think that if that's not performing well another part of our economy usually is and vice versa when you buy an individual share in mining right you are not getting exposure to the rest of it so if mining crashes for some reason your entire share portfolio crashes because that's you hold. Whereas if you hold a whole range of different shares from different industries which

is what you get access to when you purchase an ETF and mining crashes well that was only two or three percent of your portfolio and there's other things that are performing and it all evens out so that you don't feel all of the highs and super lows of the market but you get generally a pretty stable return. Is that a good summary? Yeah that was great. Thank you. Good way of not having all of your eggs in one basket i think that's how you put it in our overview episode a few weeks ago no eggs no baskets we'll get into etfs again though because i think that we really need an entire episode on that but summarizing all of that how do you do it we've spoken about the ways to do it if you're going to go down the corporate bond route you can buy them when they're on the primary

market aka when they're first issued or you could go buy ones that are listed on the stock exchange and just purchase them as you normally would a share which is kind of cool government bonds are also able to be purchased on the ASX which you can do through your broker or financial advisor or just by yourself via your online share trading account if you have one and you can see what is available at the ASX website which we're going to put in the show notes of our show this week because that to me is a really reliable source of information because the ASX is essentially the Australian Stock Exchange and this place is like the place that you get shares here in Australia yeah and if you haven't heard of it living under a rock because every single day on the tv they

will talk about the asx and they'll talk about the dow jones and all of that but essentially it is the australian version of wall street or the dow jones which is an overseas version yeah see i always used to tune out when koshi chatted about that on sunrise but now koshi i'm coming for your job watch out sunrise is there anything else we need to take into account with bonds v absolutely there are a number of things quickly time frame how long do you want to be invested for so we said that some bonds can be 10 years are you happy to lock your money away for a whole 10 years or are you wanting to access that early because if you do access it early you're actually going to lose the interest that you would have earned interest rates what is the

interest rate that is going to be paid if you purchase this bond and is it going to be fixed like is it a set rate or does that change based on industry or performance or something like that interest payments how often are you getting paid do you have to wait until the bond matures i.e the end of the bond so if it's a three-year bond you have to wait three years to get paid or will you be paid throughout the year based on how much your bond is worth diversification does the bond actually help diversify your investment portfolio so this is really important here regardless of whether you are a conservative investor or a high-risk investor diversification is the key and you want to make sure that you don't have all your eggs in one basket and you

own a number of different assets and then how safe is the issuer the company needs to be financially strong enough to maintain the interest payments back to you like if you're buying a bond let's just be dramatic for a second if you're buying a bond from a really dodgy company like gonna pay you back so yeah like i think you just need to be thoughtful when purchasing a bond government bonds in australia are triple a rated which is a really good thing but it's also something that you know doesn't not carry risk but australia has never not paid back its government bonds yeah so like that's a pretty good track record that's a pretty nice thing to know especially if you are conservative you want to know with certainty that something has happened whereas you look at the

economic environment let's say in Greece which a couple of years ago that absolutely went through the fore like I would not be buying bonds from a government like Greece's government because there's no guarantee they even have any money they're in lots and lots of debt and then market value so how will you be impacted by changes in market value will that increase will that decrease is this the right thing for you? Before we do get to the second part of today's show and hear from some of our listeners who have a couple of questions, let's hear a quick word from the friends who made today's show possible. Alrighty guys, now before we do dive straight back into our fixed interest chat, please do remember that conversations like the one Vicky D and I are

having right now need to stop calling me vicky d you don't care you have no respect it's just kind of stuck now it's stuck people in the facebook group are calling you that as well i'm aware sorry anyway do join us over there if you're not there already there's 120 probably like 150 000 by the time you know this episode drops wildly dramatic also just to be a little bit more specific because i'm obsessed with my own community yeah um it's 125 125 okay that's It's not bad, is it? Not bad. Good size.

Anyway, we're also on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. We've got a newsletter. What else have we got? Just everything. No, we've got an office dog. We've got an office dog. So yeah, get involved, guys, because there is much more to She's On The Money than just the little old podcast.

Now, V, I know you told us last week that you do invest in bonds and you told us just before as well. So can you explain why you've chosen to do that? And is this something that you actually see a lot of your clients doing? Glenn James is doing it. Glenn James is doing it and he's doing it. It must be the right thing. thing, right? He's the OG. It is actually just really important for you to understand what your

risk profile is and if it's something that actually suits you. And bonds is something that do make up a really great part of a portfolio to help diversify it and lower the risk and all of those other things. I think people get really caught up in high return shares and it frustrates me slightly because I can see that you're excited about it and that's really great. But the euphoria associated with you seeing an epic share return, we need to make it consistent. And that is why when people are like, oh my gosh, did you see how much Tesla has increased? I've made so much money. I'm not envious because I'm very comfortable and very happy with the decision I've made for my share portfolio, which over the last couple of years, I think has returned about 11%,

which I think is pretty damn good. I'm really happy with consistent returns over taking the risk of having massive returns and maybe not having it the next year and when you start to educate yourself and understand what is right for you personally you'll actually not feel that sense of FOMO that we get when other people talk about this opportunity that they seized because for every opportunity that someone seizes there's also an opportunity that someone lost yeah so you know they might have invested in Tesla but like what other things have they invested in historically that actually have failed they're not talking about that are they and it's like zoom right like I wish I had invested in Zoom.

And toilet paper. Oh my gosh, like so many things that we could have invested in. But for me, financial security was more important than doing that. Yeah. Please don't get me wrong. I have said that I do sometimes like to take a little bit of a punt. But when I do purchase a share that is not within my share portfolio, I'm not purchasing it in the portfolio.

I'm not risking that. I'm not changing that. It's actually just an amount of money that I'll put on something because I genuinely believe in that business and I genuinely think it is going to, over the long term, succeed. So I'm not talking about short-term stuff here. I'm talking about long-term and the reason I do that is because I would argue that I'm very well educated in this space and I'm surrounded by people who are also very well educated in this space. It is definitely not something for everybody. As a financial advisor, are you checking the ASX every day? Yeah, absolutely.

it's the first thing I look at every single morning. But you don't let it impact your emotions if you're like, oh, that's not performing that well because you're in it for like 10 years or whatever. No, no, absolutely not. And I think it's important to understand that as a financial advisor, I have clients that I want to make sure I'm always on top of things. So right now we're recording, it's 8.57am, Georgia King, and the ASX is actually closed. So the market is only open from 10 to 4 every day. Bet you didn't know that. Did not know that. In Australia, that's the only time you can officially trade. Make good hours. Everyone should operate by those hours. I'm not going to change the sheets on the money hours, Georgia. Good try. Okay. Very good answer there.

Let's move on to a couple of questions from our community. First one here is from M. Loved this one. How do you keep track of all of your investments fee? When you have a micro trading platform here, a few shares there, et cetera, et cetera. I'd love to know suggestions on how to keep it all straight. I feel like there is no better person to ask this question to. oh so this is yeah literally so this is really tricky because when you are micro trading or micro investing you're choosing their platform and if you have a number of different platforms like there's no actual real way to bring them all together because they are their own entities so for me I've got a spreadsheet so I understand what's everywhere but at the same time that's

where it does get really messy so personally if you looked at my stuff you'd be like Victoria you're a shambles because I do have race I do have spaceship I do play with those things I have a number of other investment apps that I've been playing around with and trying and I've got $50 here $100 there because I want to know what is going on in our community and if you guys recommend something it's very likely that I'll go and you know give it a crack just so that I can understand their portfolios their investment methodologies their fees and charges and actually get a feel for the platform because while I never make recommendations for personally specific products I think it's important that you guys get a real opinion from me not just oh yeah I read the

website and like that's just not good enough because you guys do genuinely look to me and I'm so grateful for it but you look to me for guidance on these things and if I say I don't know it's genuinely because I actually don't feel educated enough to have an opinion on that topic and I think that that's really important for me to point out I'm not going to joke about it or just make it up because I think it makes me sound smart like I'll just be like I don't know like I've never used that let me get back to you so for me it is very hard to keep track of all of your different portfolios if you're using different platforms for me personally my main investment is on one platform and I just transact there so I would say that a majority of my wealth is sitting

there whereas these micro investment platforms for me are playing around with investment and that's why it looks like a bit of a shamble but as your investment grows and you graduate off micro investing platforms it's very likely that you'll choose just one share trading platform whether that is through your financial advisor or you choose it personally and invest individually it will look a lot clearer so I would recommend doing that but you can hold your bonds you can hold your assets on the share platform that I've got which is only accessible through financial advisors I do apologize on that platform I'm actually able to add other assets so it won't track it properly in real time but I can just add at the bottom like oh I have my raised portfolio

and it's got $200 in it so I put it down the bottom so that when I look at my quote net worth it kind of puts it all together which is handy and some other platforms have that feature. So it won't keep track of it in real time because they don't have access to the data but if you've got savings you can put the savings there because that's part of your net wealth. Okay very good Hopefully that helped you out there, Em. Next question here is from Josie V. So how do you identify a good investment bond and what is reasonable to expect for fees and returns? So for me, that is so hard to answer because everyone is different and every bond is going to carry a different level of risk. It's going to carry a different fee structure. I think you

just need to look into it. At the end of the day, some have higher fees because they have higher returns or they're a little bit more safe but yeah I can't give an actual accurate answer and I know that that's so frustrating but it would just be about googling what a bond is how it works what bond works for you and actually looking into it and weighing up whether that benefit works something that does get really overwhelming for some people when they start to look into fees for investments whether that is ETFs or bonds they feel overwhelmed because they're like oh my gosh, I didn't realise fees come out of here, here and here. You really need to calculate that because sometimes they'll say,

oh, there's a performance fee or, oh, there's a admin or management fee and you're like, wow, there's so many fees. But a lot of the time when you work it out, it actually becomes really reasonable. Okay, well said. And okay, so to finish off here, if the listeners had to take away just one thing from today's episode, what would it be?

Vicky D, take us away. obviously that a bond is a very sexy way of investing as well my friends and that it is something that you should take into consideration when thinking about your future wealth and it is something that can actually really help you create a well diversified investment portfolio and if shares aren't your thing they might be a really great option that sits between having a savings account and having shares if you're like oh I'm not entirely sure what I want to do some people feel like they are safer and I think that they could be something that you could look into also ipo initial public offering not ufo um all right i think it is time to wrap it up here vicky

d just before we head off we'd like to acknowledge and pay respects to australia's aboriginal and torres strait islander peoples the traditional custodians of the lands the waterways and the skies all across australia we thank you for sharing and for caring on the land which we are all able to learn we pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness and now for the boring stuff that you can all tune out for the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision and we promise victoria divine is an authorized

representative of australia pacific funds management propriety limited abn 34132463257 AFSL 339151 and a big thank you to Ryan and Beck, our producers and to the gorgeous Jessica Ritchie I think that's where we got to last week for putting together today's show and also mad shout out to Lucy

the golden sheepadoodle who has slept under the desk for a majority of this episode recording but if you do hear a couple of nibbles, a couple of woof woofs that it wasn't Victoria or myself it was loose where else can you find us as we said before, Facebook group

uh instagram literally everywhere just google us friends yeah we're on there yeah we're on the google see you next week guys Thank you.