She's On The Money - Is Buying Property the Only Answer?

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

Is buying property the only answer? In today’s episode, we dive into the pros and cons of going solo on the property ladder. Jess is celebrating your best money wins, Bec has some smart broke tips, and we’re tackling a dilemma straight from the DMs: Should you reduce your work hours to avoid burnout or tough it out? It’s all happening this Friday, so tune in for some financial wisdom and fun! Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

hello and welcome to she's on the money the podcast that makes finance fun especially on Fridays it is actually our favorite day of the week because we get to get our little team together and celebrate you guys, our incredible She's On The Money community. Today, Ms. Jaskari, she's got a heap of money wins to share with us. Ms. Bex Syed is going to share her broke tips and we'll be helping to answer a money dilemma, which this week is all about navigating buying a property on your own. And someone slid into our DMs needing advice on whether you should ask for reduced hours at work to avoid burnout or just push through it. I feel like that's a fickle conversation, but we're going to get there later. Last week on the show, we read out some five star

reviews and I got a few DMs of people saying, we love this. It's such a positive energy. I think we're going to continue. So I did message you guys before the show and say, please read our reviews and obviously call your mums and friends and stuff to post them because God forbid we ever run out of five star reviews to read out. But Bex Syed. Yes. What are you bringing to the table this week? Okay, so this one is from Tracy and I really liked this one because I feel like the intro to the show does mention millennials, but this really is a reminder that this is for everyone. Yes.

Okay, so I'm 45 and have spent so many years feeling ashamed and anxious around my money management abilities. I had none in brackets. I love listening to your advice on the podcast and the money diarist stories are super interesting. So I really like that one because it is for anyone. Yeah. This is from Tracy. Oh, hi Tracy.

Hi Tracy. Welcome to the show and oh my god no everyone's welcome. Everyone's welcome. That's why we just updated the intro of this episode to the podcast that makes personal finance fun especially on Fridays instead of millennials who want financial freedom because we're more than millennials. Everybody wants financial freedom. Everybody does. I can't find someone who doesn't want to be financially free. No. Maybe Lucy. No she is. She's a nepo baby. Lucy's my dog for those of you following along at home who might feel a little bit behind. We are not calling a human being an EPO baby because that would be rude and I would definitely only do that off mic.

Miss Jessica, what have you got? Alrighty. This week I picked out one that says, I thought I was relatively good with money until I was recommended this podcast. They simplify complex content into an easy to understand format. I can't believe the difference this has made to our finances and our thinking. Isn't that so cute? Who was that from? so sweet from a smith oh a smith thank you i always laugh at people's usernames because like sometimes it is their name like yours beck and then sometimes it's like their username that

they've made up like i think mine is like toz dog or something really bad because like when i got my first iphone i would have been like 16 i'm like i set up my apple profile then yeah slippery slope i reckon oh yeah yeah maybe we can keep an eye out for the funniest username as well if you've got a funny username it is actually time to leave us a five-star review um i have one it is from mish i mean if we're talking about usernames mish mush is her that's really cute i think it's really cute too um it's actually one of the things that got me to read it out but they said thank you for all your advice wisdom pep talks cheer and of course financial support every week i love this podcast in fact it's the only one i religiously listen to

oh isn't that so cute that's very sweet as it's practical and relatable it has helped me improve and set up many financial aspects for my young family so thank you so much this podcast has inspired me to look into doing finance courses the pod is very motivating one day i dream to meet vd and the team as they are truly truly incredible thank you for your support and help this year oh my gosh i know and do you know what i was talking about last week and i probably shouldn't be sharing on the show but you get what you get we were talking about when we can do events again yeah oh yeah and so like I'm obviously not going to make promises but obviously last year I had a baby in late February and historically we've always done the International Women's Day

events which happened to fall in and around the 8th of March so I was what 10 days postpartum that was probably not going to work for me but we were talking about what we can do in the next year because one of the things when we did a little bit of a planning session with the team, one of the things that came out of that was like we want to get in front of our community. We want to see you guys again. So hopefully, mishmash, that happens for us really soon.

Yeah. Christmas party. Oh, my God, not that soon. Maybe next year. But imagine if she's on the money Christmas party. That would be really fun. Everything would be DIY, like arts and crafts. Oh, my God.

Stockings. Stockings. Open bar. Corinthians. Oh, okay, long list. long leap there. Let's actually get into what was happening in our community this week. Miss Jessica Riucci, what money wins are you bringing to the table? All righty. First one this week I have is from Jesse who said, I recently cancelled my membership at a yoga studio. They had a $6

cancellation fee, which I would have normally been charged, but I let them know that the reason I was cancelling in the first place was because of financial reasons and asked if there was any opportunity for them to not charge the fee. That's smart. Really smart. Don't ask, don't get though. And what happened? The yoga studio said, okay, no problems. They didn't charge her the fee. Jessie said, it never ceases to amaze me how much money you can save when you ask for something kindly. Money wins. Exactly. That's sweet. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good one. It's a really good one. Next, I've got one from Anne-Marie who said she's unfortunately been out of work for around a year now because of a chronic illness. Oh, sorry. I know. It must be really, really hard,

but it's on the up and up because she said a new medication has become available in Australia. It's on the PBS and it has improved her from being essentially bed bound to being able to get out and live her life again. Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. And the fact that it's on the PBS means it's not going to break the bank. Exactly. She said she's had it for five weeks and she made the phone call on Friday and she's finally going back to work. Oh, Icon. Really, really cool. So exciting for you. That is actually elite. I think that's my Favorite money win in a very, very long time. Yeah, that's huge.

Next, I've got a money win from Shani who said, I have the Pass app. It's a system where you get vouchers that you can spend participating pubs and local places. She booked a birthday bottomless brunch at the Espy, so she must be a Melbourne gal. Oh, hello. At the start of the year.

And she checked on the app the other day and didn't realize it was a part of the platform and she was entitled to a $200 voucher. Sorry, what? How good is that? That is really cool. That's a lot of drinks at your bottomless brunch, I bet. Happy birthday.

Happy birthday. Very exciting. Jessie's a bottomless. I feel like a bottomless brunch sounds elite. I want to go out to it. I'm going to have a good time. But, like, the bottomless part, I'd be, like, too champagne-zine and I'd be like, I'm done now.

Thank you for having me. Brunch with a singular drink is a bottomless brunch for me. I was like, Jess, I think we're on the same page here. Like, I'm a one and done too. She's out. Bex, like, make the most of the soda waters. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm doing.

Yeah. Next, I've got a money win from Carly. She said she started very slowly to invest on Sharesies. She used the SOTM code. She got a $10 voucher and she said she's excited to be learning as she goes and to stop procrastinating. Oh my God, how good, but also $10 for free. Huge. I mean, we did that. Who would say no? That's literally a money win that everyone can use this week. Yeah, that's so true. I mean, everyone that's not already on the Sharesies platform. And if you're thinking, oh, I wish I could have that, but I'm already on the Sharesies platform. Well, you're already investing so you're the real winner here you're ahead of time absolutely and apparently

Carly found a really great sustainable ETF that she said was right great queen and then lastly this week I have a money win from Tara who said she helped her mom and her sister to create their own budget so they can take control of their finances oh lovely that's so sweet whenever I read a message or a comment saying someone's like teaching someone that they know stuff I feel like we're spreading the good word of financial literacy yeah really yes welcome to the church of that's exactly what i was thinking oh my gosh literally yeah literally so good we have a bible too don't we we we have a business bible that's what i'm thinking oh we're a religious cult oh no don't forget to pre-order your copy it comes out at the end of november uh yeah religious cult

buy our stuff um and also go forth my children go forth i was like what else can i put in here Spread the good word. Spread the good word. We're not very good at this. Maybe we should start an MLM or something. Yeah, it might be easier. I don't know about easier. More profitable.

Yeah, definitely. Like then we could say yes to all the dodgy companies that want to work with us. Yeah, true. Yeah. Who needs ethics? Hit me up. Hit me up.

Who needs ethics? Moving on. I love that, Jess. I feel like anytime someone says I helped someone make a budget, I'm like, I love you. You're an icon. You're an icon. Bec, let's move on to you.

Okay. Okay, let's go. I want to know, what broke tips do you bring into the table this week? Because you have a very scary. Your cute little palm card. She has a palm card. You have a palm card, a post-it note. Yes, and I always do this to myself.

I always like write in shorthand and think I'll understand. As long as you're writing on there. Yeah, well, this actually I can't. I'll never be able to read this again. Can you write in shorthand? Or when you say you wrote in shorthand, you only wrote some of the things. Because I was like, I can read shorthand. Well, when I say shorthand, I mean I just start with the first letter

and then I get lazy and then scribble the rest. Yeah, I feel bad for the team sometimes because I'll write notes actually in shorthand and they're like, what is this? And I'll be like, oh, yes, I used to do secretary duties. I see. That's cool. It is cool, but only I can read my own notes. Sure.

They're secret. Hey, that's like knowing another language and being able to talk about someone without them knowing. Yeah, it's true. That's really cool. Somehow, Jess, you always, like your money win will always kind of. We're on the same wavelength. We're really on the same.

It's almost like we were meant to be together. Yeah. Absolutely. That's really lame. Bye. But it's true. So these are all very birthday themed. Birthday, yeah.

Adjacent. Well, actually just birthday themed. So the first one comes from Heather who says there's a restaurant group. Now, I don't know the name of this restaurant group, but for example, Studio Amaro in Windsor, If you book a table for your friends and you say that it's your birthday, everyone at the table gets a free drink. Oh, that's cool.

That's something to look into too because I'm sure in lots of states and territories there are restaurants that have like birthday deals. That's cool. Yeah, definitely, definitely. I should have said yes, absolutely. So a lot of these are like, you know, very Melbourne-based. But that's okay because like surely Melbourne aren't that cutting-edge leader. Yeah.

They're like giving people a free drink because they booked a group table can't be that revolutionary but it should be something that we're all looking into yes next time we have to book a group table because like how good's that free round of drinks i know i know that's really good free soda waters yeah free soda waters i mean hopefully you can get that any day but this next one is you know how i don't know if you guys remember but a few weeks ago i was like i will occasionally bring up ones that have been mentioned just because they keep coming up and so just in case other people haven't heard about these so this next one is better be good it better be worth the repeat i reckon so it's in particular with boost

and other places i'm sure like you know any any kind of like franchise uh hospitality place will do free food or drinks on your birthday we have a whole thread in our facebook group which you can search in the search bar everybody's dumped all of the hot tips and tricks yes places that you didn't think were going to be on there too you can eat for free for like a whole day it's brilliant I know one of you needs to take it for the team yeah and money diary a whole day of eating for free like it's your birthday you're going to pancake parlor for breakfast you're getting a boost for morning tea you're going out to somewhere else for lunch I want to see dinner I also want you to go as far as doing activities I know like time zones you get some free coins like

there are going to be things that you could do for free genius I'll make a fake email see what we can do oh my gosh do it do it jess is gonna do it obviously be careful about what links you click but do pay attention to your junk folder and it's around they end up in there a lot always end up in there yeah 10 off 25 off random places that you're interested in so your birthday just brings all the really really cheap things or great deals i love this i want to know what's next okay so my one yeah yesterday i was at h&m with um my girlfriend jess and she was buying things for her house did you guys know that homewares are my favorite yeah I didn't know they had a homeware section but it's really good the big one in the city yeah and uh they aren't they nice really

nice but we were like walking around and I was like is this the house your girlfriend bought yeah she bought a apartment with us that's a flex I love that and you know like sometimes when you're just not I was just so tired I was not in the mood but I was like carrying like all these plates and all this stuff yeah yeah I know where she brought you now yeah exactly I'm on to her in my head I I was like, I really hope she just changed their mind randomly. Anyway, and then I saw this sign that said, on your birthday, get 25% off. And I said to her, her birthday is coming up in like two weeks. I was like, oh, my God, if you just come on your birthday, you will get all this.

Anyway, we walked out with nothing. And I was really happy about that. You're going back. We'll be going back. On her birthday. On her birthday. But see, you've just found a cheap activity to do on her birthday. Yes, you're purchasing something.

But like that's a whole like activity. That's a whole morning. Actually, it does last two weeks from the day of your birthday. Did I just hear that you've got someone in your realm of contacts that's got a birthday coming up that likes free things? Huh. I have a project for you. Oh my God.

You sure do. Okay. Well, let's do that. All right, content queen. We'll talk about this later. Yeah. Okay. Well, hit me up 19th, which is the day after, 19th of October.

I'll be letting you know. I love that. I love that. Happy birthday in advance, Jess. Not this Jess. Our other Jess. Our other Jess. I have something to add to this actually because I have been talking a lot

about the cost of cards. So I hate last minute forgetting to buy someone a birthday card because, like, Jess, Bec, have you ever been to Woolies and bought a card? Oh, they're like $7 or something, right? Exactly, right? Like that is insane. But recently I have implemented the birthday book in our house. Okay.

So I went to, like, Kmart and I bought these empty books. So not the cheapy like activity books or sorry, like exercise books you'd have for your kids at school, like something a little fancier. I got like a hardcover book and I've written on the front of them, birthday book, one's Dave's, one's mine, one is our kid Harvey's. And every year, instead of buying each other cards, we're going to fill out a page in the book and write each other letters. And that's going to become the card. So I foresee us saving a lot of money on cards. Also, my husband now has no excuse to not get me a perfectly handwritten note for my birthday. Slay from me. But two, isn't that such a cute memory gift? I was thinking you could

literally gift someone a birthday book, wrap it up, do a first letter, make it really cute. And that could be a really thoughtful birthday present. That's really cute. It's a commitment to the relationship. Exactly. Could probably also keep it as a idea in the back of your head for Christmas. That's actually fantastic. Imagine giving that to your partner. And I mean, in my front cover of the book like make it all personal yeah in my head it works best when that person lives with you or like is a very close contact because like if I bought it for like you know my mom I'd have to be like oh can I come pick up your birthday book like that I don't live with her anymore but for my husband I know where it is I know we all keep it so I'll just go sneak that

away right at his birthday book and re-gift it every single year but it's got an update you could do like some scrapbooking things in there you could cut and paste some things I'm just excited that Harvey's gonna get like this book of letters over his lifetime that I've written for him every year on his birthday so cute that's really great really frugal money tip I reckon oh yeah thoughtful tip I'm thinking I'll do that for like anniversaries and everything oh you could have like a whole book like it's not just like for Christmas it could be for like any time instead of a letter love note oh because love notes yeah like and all your cards and I love this idea. That's so cute. That is very, very wholesome. All right. Let's go to a really

quick break. On the flip side, we're going to be talking about navigating buying property on your own. And someone asked in our DMs whether you should be asking for reduced hours at work to avoid burnout or just pushing through. So don't go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. Let's take a listen to this week's Money Dilemma. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's on the Money team is here to help. Every week we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording and you might just find yourself on the show. Now let's take a listen to this week's Money Dilemma.

hi she's on the money absolutely love your pod my boyfriend and i in our 30s are not having kids he's buying a house for us both to live in i will contribute nothing to the deposit and will not own any of it our idea was that i will save up to buy my own investment property and i'm about two years off having the deposit my boyfriend has been charging me cheap rent to live in his apartment to help me reach my goal however i'm crunching the numbers on a mortgage and i don't see how i can pull it off alone. Assuming I get rent money from tenants in my apartment, which may not even cover the whole mortgage, I'll also be paying rent to my boyfriend and paying for the strata, council rates, water, etc. for my apartment. If we broke up and I moved out, I'd have to pay for rent

for a place to live as well as my mortgage because I can only afford an apartment in a random state where I don't live. I feel like if I buy, I'm barely going to have any money left over to save or do anything fun. I feel like it's too hard to do it alone if I'm not going to be living in the property. My boyfriend will not budge on the idea of buying a house alone. I like the idea of investing my money instead. I already invest in a range of ETFs and add to this on a regular basis. But is that a good use of my savings? Or should I wait for the future for the mortgage as I get a pay rise every year? I struggle with the societal pressure to buy and buy ASAP. I don't even want to. What would you advise? Thanks. I've got a really easy answer because she said

she doesn't want to. Don't. She said, I'm struggling with the societal pressure of purchasing a house and I don't even want to. And I think the simple answer there is I would be putting the brakes on that plan at this point because it's clearly putting a lot of pressure on you and you don't even know if you want to do it properly yet. Unless you're all in on purchasing property, you should absolutely not be doing it. I'm going to use Jess as an example because I often use Jess as an example of a home buyer. I know not her inside out, but I know her property goals inside out. And I know that buying a property is one of, or is her biggest goal at the moment, right? I don't think that if we said, is it societal pressure? Just going to go.

No, absolutely not. Like that's not it, but it's so a value to you. And so the extra fees and whatever cost is being incurred, Jess has allocated for that. And that's just part of the journey. Whereas this money diarist or this person who has written in, which is very kind of you to do so, because I love hearing from our community, but you've written and you've said, I don't really know if I want to do this. And I think that that's where I need to remind you that you don't have to. And I guess that's what She's On The Money is all about. It's creating your own journey, writing your own pathway, creating your own narratives. Like your partner might be fully into property, but you might go, well, that's not my journey. That's not for me. What I want

is to invest in shares. And like, if we put it down on a piece of paper, the Australian share market returns more than the Australian property market. So you're not making a terrible decision when you say, is that a good use of my savings? Well, only you can tell me that. I can't say yes unequivocally because you might go, well, actually my savings are better used here and here. I recorded a money diary actually before you guys came into the studio to do the Friday episode. I was talking to the diarist and you guys will hear this on the show soon. She had $100,000 in savings. Obviously a lot of context is missing here, but $100,000 in savings and she had a $40,000 car loan. And I talked to her about at the end, I said, I need to know, like, why haven't you just

used your savings to pay down your high interest car loan? She was like, well, they're giving me a lot of financial security. They're making me feel really secure. Like my partner and I want to have a kid in 12 months or so. And, you know, we're planning on, you know, changing our lifestyle. I think just sitting on the cash for us is working better at the moment and it gives us a level of financial security that's fair that's so fair like she's happy to pay for her car loan and my job at she's on the money or my self-elected job because I did this myself right is to give you every single tool and resource that you deserve to make the decision that's right for you not on paper what the right decision is because if we'd looked at my money diarist story on paper

I think we could all agree $40,000 car loan at more than nine percent interest yeah paid off but her values were not that. And that's fine. Like there's literally no judgment, but also I can't tell you whether it's a good use of your savings because only you can tell me that. And the only way you're going to be able to tell me that is if you understand your values. And if you sit down and go, well, I did say I don't want property. Why is that? Why do I feel this pressure to have property? You've listed off all of these negative examples. You didn't give me in that message, one positive. You didn't say, I'd really love property because it would give me a sense of freedom. You didn't say any of that. You just said, my partner's buying, I'm going to buy,

I'll have a deposit in two years and here are all the negatives. I'll have to pay this, this, this and this. And here's the bad outcome if we break up. Like, anyway, I'm sorry to have jumped in there. I just felt like that was so driven by the pressure that you feel to own property, not the reality, which is you probably don't want that. And a share portfolio sounds like it's going to work for you because that's what you said you were interested in totally I was just gonna say like obviously I'm you know not in this position so I'm not the best to give advice but I just think if you're doing anything because some of some arbitrary societal rule you will forever just be so deeply unhappy if I was following every societal rule and you guys were as well like I

would be in a dress right now and I would be you know just like all my whole dress I'd be so confused. Things would be wrong. Things would be very wrong. And I, it just like, yeah, all these things would just like that, that make you inherently happy because of your own personal preference. You don't need any societal pressure to do anything. Who would you be making happy? Yeah. People that don't know you exist, you know, like the people in your world that love you don't care about that stuff. So I think like if you don't feel the urge to buy a property inside yourself like you don't feel that craving then I would just not do it and save that because a lot of people I feel like a lot of people and hopefully it's not as popular or like sorry not as common

anymore but women who want to leave their husbands maybe can't because financially they don't have the ability to but if you have that there and you know touch wood something happens in the future and you break up and you have all that money you're like I need to live by myself now you are able to buy yourself a little one bedroom apartment in a place and I think that this person also said that they wouldn't be able to afford to live in the place they want to live. Yeah, it sounds like they would rent best. Yeah. So I'm like if you have all that money,

you might be able to stay in the place that you want to stay and you'd be fully financially independent because you do have this money. I say keep saving it. Don't buy. And I feel like investment property means it's investing in, you know, like you're bettering your financial future. But I just. But it should be bettering your life in general as well.

Yeah, yeah. I just, I think you don't have to do that. You shouldn't have to do that. You should make like Taylor Swift. like you can reinvent yourself like if you are in a situation where you're like I just don't want to buy right now doesn't mean you can't change your mind she was country queen right and then she went to being pop icon she changed she decided she wanted to do something different and just did it so you just do that later if you choose to change your mind if you go well I don't want to buy

property don't if in a few years as you said you're going to get a pay rise every year if in a few years that's really financially viable and you're like oh I'm into this now do it then totally but you know what you've done you've given yourself the financial freedom to make that decision at that point by investing along the way exactly just what would you do i yeah i completely just like i would buy the property no but i completely agree with what you're both saying is that you need to make a choice that's right for you and anyone who loves you is not going to pressure you into making a decision my best guess would be maybe that your partner thinks that they're helping you get ahead like maybe they've got kind of a plan in their mind

and they're not seeing that it's not, you know, they're giving you cheap rent and stuff. Like in their mind they might be thinking that they're furthering you so that you can have your own property. And they're going to have a bigger investment portfolio. Well, yeah, like maybe in their mind that gives you a bigger sense. You each own your own property so that if something does happen, you both have something, maybe that's where they're coming from.

But if they love you, of course they're not going to want you to do something you don't want to. So I think like having that conversation with them and then on a broader scale maybe, you know, saying to them, hey, like I understand that maybe you were trying to help me get ahead by giving me a cheaper rent or by covering these bills or whatever so that I could achieve that part of, you know, kind of plan that you maybe thought that we would have or that would be great for us.

If that's not what I want to do, like I'm so happy to be an equal partner, like I'll pay market value rent, like I will split things. We can put, you know, a BFA or some kind of agreement in place to protect your property that you have because maybe that's a point of concern for them. so I think maybe you know being grateful that they want to help you get ahead because I'm hoping that that's where that's coming from but also explaining to them that's not what you want and that's okay like if you don't want to buy a property do not buy a property it's a lot of work or like having it maybe I'll change my mind later it's not completely off the table nothing is but

maybe I'm just not here on the same journey as you and that's actually so fine yeah investing in shares is also a great investment option if that's more aligned to you it's your money and ultimately you have to do what feels right for what you want and what feels good. And I think just communicating that to your partner and, you know, being prepared to find a middle ground in terms of the living situation might be the best way to go. Completely agree with you, Jess. Amazing. Should we get to this week's money? Oh my gosh, yes. I have been waiting for this one. Are you ready? Absolutely. Ready? Okay. Hi, she's on the money team. I have a DM for you. I'm currently in my first year of full-time work and it's been so hard transitioning into it and I am exhausted.

I'm currently undergoing ADHD and autism diagnosis. I've gotten to a point where I'm on the brink of burnout and I want to ask for my contracted hours to reduce two hours per week to have a nine-day fortnight. I already work longer hours during the week to have a shorter day on Fridays, so I'm not bothered by longer hours to have an RDO. Financially, I can cop 150 less-ish a fortnight. I also know of older people in the business with part-time or four-day contracts, but I'm really worried about the prejudice and judgment that might come with this decision as I have no dependents and have mentioned struggles, but most people say just push through it. I feel like my reasoning may limit me in progressing in my career. I'm in

engineering. Do you have any advice on this? Oh my God. This has been such a thing for me this week in particular, but always it is my biggest thing, four-day work week, because I I think, sure, back in the day, in the ye olde times when one person would work, usually a man, and the woman would stay home, usually, with the children, do all the house stuff. So both parties working full time, but kind of like tackling different things. No, you can just, yeah, you can just say it how it was. Yeah. Well, now it's like one person, you've got to do, say Friday, you're really tired. What happened to the Sabbath day of rest?

You cannot anymore because you have Friday, maybe you go out, maybe you don't, but that day is taken up by work, let's be honest. And then Saturday is one day where you don't have work the day or the day after so you can maybe have some fun with your friends. Sunday, maybe you're resting but you also have to do the laundry. You've got to go to church that day. You've got to do the church. Get the kids ready for church that day.

You do, you do, but you've got all the life admin, all the chores, everything that you weren't able to get done. Also, a lot of businesses are closed on that day so you just, where do you find time? anyway a four-day work week a three-day weekend is probably essential at this stage I would say but also I don't want to be that person you know everyone everyone does have a different level of it depends on your workload it depends on your work it depends on so many things yeah and like on the flip side someone else might go I don't want to have to do 10-hour days I'd much prefer

to spread that across five days I mean each to their own but I do believe in flexibility where it makes sense. Jess, what would you do? I think that I totally understand where they're coming from because firstly, congratulations on working towards your formal identification of being somewhere on the spectrum. That's very exciting, even though it can feel very intimidating as well. But I think that firstly, it's really important to know that within like fair work legislation, there is literally like legalities that prevent you from being discriminated against because of different abilities, different things like that. And so if there is a concession that is needed for you as a part of your formal diagnosis and you can have a doctor, a psychologist, whoever

you're seeing, psychiatrist, sorry, provide some evidence of that, it actually can't be denied. There's a lot of nuance there. I'm being very general with that. But if you need something to be able to facilitate your job and it is able to be facilitated, which it sounds like it can be because you said there's the people on the four-day contracts and part-time contracts and stuff, it should be an option for you just in terms of being allowed. I know that our listeners' bigger issue was the bias that they might encounter in the workplace and that is a much trickier beast. I would say that I think society has come a long way in being respectful and understanding of the fact that really we all exist somewhere on a spectrum and everyone has different needs

and different preferences and different things. None of us fit the mold. Our team is so neuro spiced totally and I think like the fact that the standard traditional nine to five five day work week was invented however many years ago when people were literally working in almost slavery men specifically like even just things like women shouldn't have jobs their job is in the home yes you know I think that I completely agree it is a very like outdated way and I think that a lot of workplaces really are working towards being more flexible and more compromising and so are people individually. Like if you asked anyone in this room, for example, if that was a problem, not one of us would bat an eye. But I do understand when you're in a corporate space and particularly if

you're in the engineering space, which is a male dominated industry, you might already be facing some challenges there around biases and things like that. I totally get the concern, but I think ultimately burnout is so damaging to you, like mentally, physically, emotionally. I would say that to not have to suffer through that, it is almost worth the risk of coming up against a few people who might be jerks. Yeah, because like if you just suffer through it, you might end up losing your job. Completely. Like you might not be able to work. And I don't mean to be too dramatic, but you might end up in a really bad situation that has a bad outcome and that's not what you want. So why not ask and kind of bite it in the butt? The other thing I wanted to talk about here

was sick leave. So like your mental health is your health and your health is supported by your sick leave. So if you need to take some sick leave and go, you know what, I need a few days or I need a day here and there for my mental health, that is so valid. Like I feel like businesses nowadays are trying to carve out, oh, we have mental health leave. And honestly, I think that's bullshit because you have sick leave that you should be able to use for your mental health. Like from a business owner's perspective, if someone in my team says, I'm not well today, I'm not coming into work, that is not my business. Legally, it's not my business. I do not ask for sick certificates. I'm not saying that that's across the board, but for one day here or there,

even if you need a sick certificate, you could go to your GP and say it's mental health leave and your doctor is going to write exactly the same sick certificate for your mental health as they are for you having the flu saying, sorry, Jessica's unable to come to work and she can resume her normal duties as of Monday. Like it's not, I promise you, your mental health is so important. You don't even have to go to your boss and have this conversation yet. As somebody who is neuro spicy, being in the throes of it, there's a lot that you're going to learn about managing your health right now. Maybe as an interim measure, you could use some of your sick days, take some pressure off, maybe even talk to your boss and be like, hey, don't know how transparent

you want to be. Hey, I am not dealing well with a health diagnosis that I'm currently in the midst of. None of their business. Is there a way that I could, for the next three Fridays, have a sick day? I know that people don't usually plan sick days in advance, but that's what they are for. I don't want to get too much into it. And after that, we can review and hopefully I can return to normal. If not, we can discuss it then. It's giving your boss a heads up. You can kind of test the waters you're using sick leave, you should be allowed to. And I mean, at the end of the day, if they say no to taking sick leave, fair work issue. So I really doubt that they're going to do that. And to be honest, if Jess was going through something similar, I say Jess all the

time because she literally reports to me, whereas Bec, you work for the podcast, but you work nine to five somewhere else. So if Jess came to me and said, hey, you know, she'd probably tell me the juicy dates, let's be honest. But that's a friend thing, not an employer thing. But if she said, I need to take time off. As an employer, far out, I'm so grateful that she's not curdling me for the next three weeks on a Thursday night being like, hey, I'm going to be sick tomorrow. Like, thank you for the planning. I can plan around it. I can go, all right, Jess, you can have the Fridays off for the next few weeks, sick leave, no worries. Let's just make sure A, B and C are done because then no one's stressed. How good? So maybe there's like a workaround, but I think make sure that

you're leaning especially on stuff like this lean on your sick leave it is there to be used and I'm not saying like abuse it but like it sounds like you actually need a few days off because if you're close to burnout you're sick yeah and then if you maybe if you do it that way you'll be able to say hey like everything functioned well I was able to complete my work during the week like the sky didn't fall in when I took those Fridays off can we look at moving that to a long-term solution where I work a four-day work week we've seen that it works yeah and that's you know it's been really beneficial for me. And I think that that's really going to help me avoid burnout, work at my ultimate, you know, level. My peak performance. Exactly. Because ultimately that's what the

workplace wants, right? So I think if you can demonstrate that and maybe that is a good way to broach it gently, if you're feeling a bit nervous about it, but also take the pressure off immediately. Like I think you're thinking really long-term about this because you're currently feeling like you're headed towards burnout. I get long-term is really important, but what can you do in the here and now without setting in place a formal structure which I promise is going to take a bit of time if you said you're in engineering I can almost guarantee they're a little bit behind so getting something like that across the table is going to be challenging but I would lean on your sick leave at the start and then go from there yeah whatever else of course we went to

the community asked their two cents but first we said would you feel confident asking for fewer hours at work. Interestingly, 18% of you said, only if I had kids. 60% of you said, absolutely, my well-being matters. Yes, it does, Queens. And 22% of you said, no way, wouldn't feel comfortable. The next question we asked was, what do you think about the advice to just push through? Hate it. Sorry, we didn't even address that at all. I hate it. Good, because 81% of our community said, terrible advice. Terrible. Yes, terrible. terrible uh 19 of you said that's how i'd handle it no don't do that okay big dog you just handle it that's terrible you're the person that's going to head towards burnout and burnout harder um so

one out of ten don't recommend that and then obviously we said girl what are your two cents and you had some thoughts someone said i'm about to navigate this i'll be actually asking my gp for a medical certificate to help support me cool genius someone else said i reduced to nine days a fortnight as a 30 year old i love life now it was actually essential for my mental health someone else said you can just call fair work and ask for advice on advocating for reasonable accommodations that is great advice there is so much support like you don't have to go to your hr department or your boss like you can work out what's feasible first because that's power like imagine getting to walk in and then they go not possible and you go oh I hate to do this but

legally you have to work with me like I don't want to be that guy but uh I do know my rights also great to have like a record or a document that you've spoken to fair work because if anything does go wrong and you do need to lean on that you can say well I I was proactive I took that approach ahead of time yeah yeah someone else said empathizing with you I'm also A-U-D-H-D. And I find the five day work week a lot. No advice, just lots of empathy. You guys both raised eyebrows. That is a combination of autistic and ADHD together, which comorbidity in those conditions is incredibly high. Right. Kind of cool though. Yeah. When you're a little bit neuro spicy, it runs deep. I was laughing because like a couple of my friends,

diagnosed, complete side note, I am ADHD. I haven't been diagnosed with anything else, But a couple of my friends who've been diagnosed with ADHD got their medication, started taking their medication and then realized they were also autistic, which is not funny, but it is quite funny because like your ADHD symptoms often mask what else is going on, sort out the ADHD and you're like, oh, there's another thing hiding under here. Really, really common. Someone else said, don't over explain, make the request and provide just enough information. Fair.

You only have to share what you're comfy with. And then someone else said, I thought this was quite funny. She said, it is terrible advice to just push through, but let's be honest, that's how I'd handle it. Yeah, I know. I get that. Yeah. I feel like so many of us do that, but you don't have to like put yourself first. You're impacting so many parts of your life by not making sure that you're well. Like if you're not well, how are you giving your best? Yeah. You can't pour from an empty cup. Completely. Someone else said, I asked to drop from five days to three and a half days a week and it has mentally saved me. Someone else said, I love this advice, you don't ask, you don't get.

We need to put that on a t-shirt. Yeah, that needs to be somewhere. Exactly. And I feel like that's probably a good place to leave it, to be honest. Like, you don't ask, you don't get. Yeah, very true. And the anxiety around asking and feeling like crap after, even if whether you got your way or not, that'll fade and you'll be left with a beautiful nine day fortnight. Exactly. But also I think defining here what anxiety is. Anxiety is the fear of the unknown,

right? Like anxiety is being worried about something that might not happen. Like as I've said on this podcast before, what's the worst thing that never happened to you? And I think that helps me a lot because as somebody who takes anti-anxiety medication, I feel like I'm very well-spoken in this space, but often we ruminate in our own heads and make things much bigger than they actually are. And I mean, they're way worse at 3am, right? But I think the most important thing here is do all your research because the more information and the more education you have about this, the more power you're going to have. So talk to Fair Work, do some research background, read some forums online about what there is available to you. And again, lean on your sick

leave. It's there for you when you're not well and you're telling me that you're heading towards burnout. So that's where we'll leave it. I hope you guys have a beautiful weekend. I'll see you in the morning for a little solo episode and then also on Monday bright and early for a money diary so have a good weekend guys we love you bye guys bye the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision if you do choose to buy financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards

your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289. Thank you.