She's On The Money - Is ethical investing as ethical as we think it is?

Episode Date: April 13, 2021

Is ethical investing all it’s cracked up to be? Well long story short, it is sometimes, but not always. So how do we avoid falling victim to ‘greenwashing’ and is there actually money to be made in this space? In today’s episode, we unveil it all.Love the pod but looking for a more hands on approach to your money? Look no further. Our budgeting & cashflow masterclass is the tool you need to help overhaul your finances for good. Join Victoria as she steps you through your budgeting and cashflow with all of the smarts and none of the intimidating jargon.PLUS, because you’re a SOTM listener, use the code POD50 and you’ll score $50 off the course. Head to our website here: https://www.shesonthemoney.courses/masterclass to find out more today!Do you love the podcast SICK and want more SOTM? Course ya do. Join our Facebook page to share your money wins and money confessions, follow us on Insta for daily inspo to keep you on track and DEFINITELY subscribe to our newsletter https://www.shesonthemoney.com.au/newsletter the written recap of the pod's key takeaways, including some bonus bits you won't want to miss.Finally, if you're in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we've got you sorted - simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast!The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Now, these days, most of us are pretty aware of the impact we have on the planet and on the people around us. We opt for keep cups over disposable, we're careful to separate our recyclables from the rest of the rubbish and we're slowly starting to change our behaviours when it comes to fast fashion. But how about investing? How can we start investing in a more ethical way and if we choose to, what implications will that have not only on the future of our planet but on the future of our

own bank accounts? My name is Georgia King and joining me to get to the bottom of ethical investing is financial advisor, Ms. Victoria Devine. V, this episode has been a very long time coming and the people have been asking for it. But for anyone new to the concept of ethical investing, can you talk us through what it actually means? I can. I'm so excited about this episode because not only has it been long awaited by everybody in our community, but G, how long have I been telling you I really want to deep dive on ethical investing? Probably since I started. Yeah, it's crazy. And I'm so opinionated about this. So you just wait. I feel like this podcast is going to get a little bit heated. Anyway, as regular pod listeners would know, investing means

buying shares in companies, which makes you a baby stakeholder in that company. Money win. Naturally, some companies are considered to be more ethical than others. For example, companies that work in the renewable energy space have more of a positive impact on our planet than those working in fossil fuels. And consequently, most of us would consider them to be more ethical. so basically ethical investing is choosing to invest your money in companies that have a positive impact on our society and on our planet rather than the companies who may not be so ethical right i feel like we do kind of forget that when we're investing we are investing in companies and there's consequences for where our money actually goes right and it goes beyond just what is ethical

and what isn't ethical and i've spoken about this with pretty much every single client i have but I think people assume that when companies use words like green and ethical and socially responsible and all of those words that you go oh that must mean that they're a pretty good company you would think that there's some kind of regulation around it right just like if you pop into Coles and you see the organic section like you know that's certified organic and in Australia there's this list of criteria that they need to meet and prove that they've met so that they can put that organic sticker on. In Australia, there's actually no obligation when it comes to ethical investing to have a certain criteria. And people just assume that

when words like green or emerald portfolio are used, they must automatically also be ethical because we would just assume, right? Yes. But it's not true. And it's really frustrating because so many of us will say things like, yes, but I chose the emerald portfolio. So I'm a more ethical investor and I'm like cool well did you know that you've got exposure to non-ethical assets and you'll go what no but I chose the ethical one I'll be like no no no they never said ethical and if you look deeper into it some companies will use terms like emerald or socially irresponsible they won't actually ever use the term ethical because they're a little bit cheeky interesting I mean like that just to like take it back to the supermarket example I guess you know

muesli baths e.g they're gonna say natural on them they can say 100 you know baked not fried whatever yeah and all of those things do make us think that that is a great option exactly they might say no added refined sugars but it's like full of raw sugar or something and you'll be like oh but it's got no refined sugar yeah it's really frustrating because it puts us in this position where we have to second guess everything and we shouldn't have to do that but we are. How good's marketing? I love that. We will get back to that a little bit later on, Bea. But how do we actually go about figuring out who is ethical and who isn't? Because my sense is that companies probably won't have the homepage of their website with a big,

we are unethical, please invest with us. Oh no, they definitely do that. Yeah. No, no, no. They definitely don't. And no one's going to go, hey G, so if you come and invest with us, we actually prioritize mining and oil. Yeah, we're kind of evil. We love gambling. We actually are really into human trafficking. So come and invest with us. Not true. Sadly, I really wish that people had to disclose those things kind of like, hey, there's gluten in this or not. But you're bang on. We really need to do our research because there can be this lack of transparency that makes it so hard to figure out how a business operates. The other thing that we need to establish is what we're actually comfortable with and what we're not comfortable

investing in. So for example, some people would hate to invest in companies who exploit their workers and animals or who don't have a strong female presence at the top, but maybe they're less passionate about the environment so they might not feel as bad about investing in fossil fuels. So it can be quite personal and you need to work out what qualifies as ethical to you because there's not actually one definition. Before we were recording this, Jay was sitting in my office and we were talking about, you know, my experience with clients and Zella is actually 100% ethical investing. So we don't invest in fossil fuels. We just don't put it in clients portfolios because I genuinely believe that it is not the way of the future. They are not an

unlimited resource. There are so many different ways that we can have positive impacts on the planet. And if I can put my clients in a position where they are supporting the world and themselves at the same time I feel like I'm being an ethical and good financial advisor but I have this conversation with every client during their fact find process so we'll go through all of the questions the bland ones that compliance make us ask yeah and then I'll say at the end what's your stance on ethical investing they'll say oh yeah I'm an ethical investor I'll be like yes gee what's that mean to you specifically like let's talk about it are you talking about renewables Are you talking about fossil fuels? Are we talking about animal products? Like what is it? Is it

gambling? Is it guns? Like how does that actually impact you? And a lot of people haven't actually thought about the semantics of what is included because in the ASX top 200, there are fossil fuels, there is gambling, there is tobacco, there are things that our country produces and invests in that you might not agree with. And we actually have complete control over what we invest in. So you might go to the Vanguard website, for example, and look at one of their portfolios and go, oh yeah, I guess I want to buy this ETF. It's a really good ETF. It's well known, but you know, it's got some things I don't like, but my friend invest

in it. So I probably should, but they've got an ethical portfolio as well. So I think it's really important to understand that so many companies now have ethical options, but you just have to look for them because often they are slightly more expensive and we'll get into this and they do often have slightly different returns albeit we'll get into the stats of a little bit later because you're stats girl and you've got some really great stats about the performance but back to me talking about my fact find process with clients I had this chat with a client the other day and I explained all of this and I was like obviously

for me being who I am live animal exports never hard no like hard no like so hard no it makes me sick but I said you know that exists and she was like yeah I don't want any of that but I guess mainly what I don't want is nukes what nukes do suck to be fair to the client fair call um I might just call my Russian friends and say sorry about that investment no longer going to be able to make it um I've never actually invested in nukes but I'm glad to fully comprehend her values and what she's up to yeah but that's why it's so important to ask because you don't know someone else's stance on ethical you don't know that they're a crazy vegan like me who you know is obsessed with animals and you know cares a lot about the planet they might just go yeah like I want to be ethical

but like I love salami yeah you know prosciutto is my favorite food delicious yeah great no problems like we've all got different values and that's what makes investing so beautiful because you can construct a portfolio that's really reflective of your own personal values and when I say I believe in these things it is by no way shape or form me pushing my personal beliefs on you saying well gee you have to in saying that I genuinely don't believe that non-renewables have a place in investment portfolios moving forward that's my personal view if you don't like that you don't actually have to be my client gotcha it's a choice if you align to my values and you you buy into what i'm putting on the table cool be my client you don't like it that is absolutely

fine i have so many great financial advisor friends i can refer you to so if we are wanting to invest in you know non-nuke uh companies yeah how do we how do we find that information or is it easier just to like go to a financial advisor like yourself so you like sets it all up for you or do you look in annual reports like what does it actually look like you're right and your reports are a good one a good way of establishing the ethics of the company that you're looking to invest in is to actually take a look at their annual reports their social impact reporting which will be in their annual reports which you can actually review pretty easily through resources like yahoo finance so i find that to be a really solid resource because it's so easy to understand

you can just key some stuff in and it'll spit it back out they provide sustainability ratings for a lot of australian companies you can also just talk to your financial advisor i would ask in the she's on money community because everybody's got an opinion in there in the best of ways there are also resources out there like the Responsible Investment Association of Australasia who have an investment finder tool which helps you find funds that are aligned to your goals and your ethical values so there are lots of different ways to go about this in saying that we've said this before a financial advisor might not be the cheapest of ways to go about it but it might be about finding options that are akin to what you're looking for so if you're looking for

an ETF, start keying in ethical ETF instead and just see what that's made up of and see how it's constructed and built. And when I say that, it does sound a little bit more complex and I promise you I'm not trying to be complex, but when I say constructed, I mean, what are the companies in there? What's it made up of? And are you going to review everyone individually or are you going to go look at the portfolio manager? So something that I do personally, and you know what, I'm not expecting other people to do. But something I do is really trace back the source. ETF, great. Let's pretend it's called ETF A. I'm going to go look at the companies in there and go, yep, okay, that kind of makes sense. But why? And I want to understand who that manager is. So who put

together that ETF? What are they like? Where have they worked historically? And I think it's important to understand them as well as it is your ETF. It's quite a complex process and you absolutely don't have to go through it. But our job, G, is to give you as much education and options as possible to make you feel confident with your investment journey. Probably also a really good time to mention that we've got an investment product coming out next month. Tell us more. No, I can't. I can't. Oh, don't worry about it.

I can't. But instead of having to see a financial advisor, which obviously costs thousands of dollars, and I've tried to be as transparent about that as possible, but obviously everybody's situation is different. It's going to start at like $9.95 for actual real life advice plus construction. $9.95. $9.95. Mamma mia. I'm so excited. It's gorgeous. Anyway, let's move on because I'm not meant to be talking about it. And sorry to Ted if he's listening. Sorry, sorry. All right. Yeah. Let's move on. Impact investing. That's something that came up a lot in my Google searches pre-show. Is that the same as ethical investing? No, sir. Impact investing is basically a more proactive way of ethically investing. So it's taking it another step further. Instead of

saying, I just don't want those things in my portfolio, just don't have them, you're actively sorting out things that can have a positive impact moving forward. So where ethical investing might see you avoiding companies who work with fossil fuels or they're exploiting their workers, impact investing goes that step further and sees you actively contributing to organisations or projects or funds which generate measurable change in the environmental and social space which I think is really exciting and again only you can decide what that means because your impact is yours alone if that makes sense so like I might go oh my gosh I adore children I really want to support them so for me assets that align to supporting that value is more along the lines

of impact investing as opposed to avoidant which is when you're ethical and just avoiding things that you know aren't positive yeah oh that's really interesting it's fun is that is that a big space is it popular it's massive it is massive because at the end of the day we always say put your money where your mouth is right and like obviously a dollar can't change the world but if we all started aligning our investments to what we truly believed in instead of just going yep, cool, that'll work. Like we can have measurable change. We can start changing the world. And I think that's really cool. It's like, you know, doing something for future you and future Bionet. Kind of cool. Kind of cool. Kind of cool. Sidestep here, Vicky D. I love that name

for me. I know you do. So amazing. Love that we're supporting the planet, looking to the future, helping the kids, ditching the nukes. Absolutely. I mean, you guys have to take this with a grain of salt because I am that person that has a keep cup doesn't like eating animals you know has a million pets like just you know everything that we say and I've said this before needs to be taken with a grain of salt because your opinion is yours alone and that's really beautiful my opinion obviously on a podcast doesn't mean it is the right thing for you either I think that's important to preface right like you like different things than I like vice versa doesn't mean that I have to accept it but it's so nice to know that other people have different opinions and they can follow

their goals and their values and that's cool absolutely a lot of people listening to this podcast though v they're here to make money to look after our cash cash money correct so what are the impacts of ethical investing on our finances are we seeing good returns from it or is it yes but like at least we've done the good things so i think i think historically people have always thought that ethical investing might not have as high returns and it's been somewhat true and the reason it's been somewhat true is ethical investing is more expensive and the reason it is is because usually those companies are more ethical therefore have higher fees associated higher you know costs over their head because let's give a good example we buy a t-shirt that

t-shirt is made in Australia from people who are being paid award rates that's going to be cheaper than the t-shirt you buy online for two dollars because it was made in a sweatshop overseas right so when it comes to ethical investing there are higher costs associated in saying that the returns more recently they've been great they've been fantastic you kind of do put a little bit more on the table when it comes to fees but that all kind of balances out with good returns and knowing that your money is actually performing well and also impacting the planet positively. According to actually the RIAA's 2020 benchmark report, so that is the Responsible Investment Association of Australasia, which I mentioned before, over the past three,

five and 10 year periods, Australian responsible investment funds have outperformed mainstream investment funds. So by ethically investing, you're definitely not throwing away your financial future, which is probably a perception that a lot of us out there have because you go, all right, Well, if you're compromising something, you're obviously going to lose, but you're not. It's positive for everybody involved. But I also want to, this is my gripe, right? And I've had this rant in the office before, and I know this isn't new for you to hear. I get so frustrated when people say, oh, it's compared to the benchmark. Okay. What is the benchmark? Who set that? What is that benchmark made up of and more often than not it's made up of like the ASX top 200 which is

the 200 companies in Australia that are like best performing etc but why are we comparing a ethical portfolio made up of renewables and things that are great for the future and things that are going to be far more sustainable in the long term to oil and tobacco and gambling and things that we don't agree with. Like that's like comparing apples with oranges. And to me, it really frustrates me that a lot of the time the benchmark for ethical investing and the performance indicators will be compared to that of non-ethical investing. And that is not fair. So it's like comparing our friend Chloe Malloy, who's actually your friend. I just really like her. She's an AFLW player. Shout out to Chloe. Yeah, shout out to her. But it's like comparing her to a tennis player and

expecting that her performance would meet their criteria when at the end of the day they have a completely separate way of measuring performance and success about whether you're winning the game or not versus hers because hers is a team sport that's an individual sport there are so many differences and I think it's really unfair to compare the two because it's apples with oranges though yeah you're right they're both sports they're completely different though so thank you So I think it's really unfair to compare ethical investing to non-ethical investing and then use the non-ethical investing benchmark to be like, oh, it's set love. Like, no, sorry, we kick goals. Like, what are you talking about? So I think it's just really important to understand that's where

my frustration comes from. I don't know if other people share this frustration. Maybe it's just me. But to summarize all of this, yes, you're right. Ethical investing has had great performance over the last few years. That was the best spiel I've ever heard you spout. Was it? Yes. Did it make sense? Set, love, we kick goals. That was stunning. But it kind of makes sense, right? And I think I get so frustrated when people are like, yeah, but it's all investing. I'm like, yeah, okay, well, it's all sport. Like, can you imagine telling a footy player that you were comparing them to a tennis player? That would be awful. Makes no sense. So we're not going to do it. love okay good what's your next question happy with that let's move on uh so are there platforms

out there v that make it easier or funds out there that make it easier for us to be investing ethically so in the group for example raises emerald account comes up time and time again people are like yep i'm doing this because i'm doing the right thing for the environment for the planet etc yeah thoughts uh yeah this is what i was talking about before in a non-elusive way i didn't know you were actually going to call it out, but it's true. Let's clarify here that Ray's Emerald account is not actually an ethical account. It is a socially responsible account and at no point have they ever, ever told us anything otherwise. We've just assumed, right? So they've got their normal accounts, then they've got their Emerald. That must be the ethical one,

right, G? So there's a little bit of greenwashing going on there and I'll get into that a little bit later because greenwashing makes me mad. As you know greenwashing is something that we all need to be very aware of because it happens time and time again and that's what I was referring to earlier when I said they're using terms like socially responsible and emerald or it might be a green portfolio and everybody's just trying to make it seem a lot more ethical than it is when in reality they are still supporting live animal export and that makes me mad. So when it comes to what socially responsible investing is in comparison to ethical. We've already defined that. Socially responsible investing can often be thought of as like a philosophy to investing,

where investors make a conscious effort to invest in companies that align with their ethical ideologies. So it's not they're 100% ethical, but they're like throwing around these terms that kind of make you think ethical, right? Good marketing, great marketing, perfect copywriting, love that for them. But a common example is not investing in companies that promote or produce products that are related to addictive substances, right? Like tobacco or gambling, but they might still invest in other things that don't make sense. So for me, I think it's just so important to understand what you are getting yourself into and not just assuming that it means that it's just really good. So I don't get it. So what does, what are they saying with their social

responsibility? Cause I was looking at their website before and I was like, it seems like it's ethical like as you said their copywriting was magical great marketing but I really couldn't discern what they're actually what they do with that Emerald account so more often than not like don't get me wrong a lot of the companies that they do have in that portfolio are what I would deem to be somewhat ethical but I think that the important thing here is ethics to me really really transcends not just what the business promotes or produces, but also how they treat their workers and if they pay award rates or not, or if they have overseas employees that they're not treating as well. So it kind of goes deeper than that. But then on top of that, those big

companies often have their own investment portfolios. So would you be comfortable if I said, hey, G, so company A, ethical, so great. They're a B Corp company, which means they are, you know. Chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. They are chef's kiss. But also they have an investment portfolio and it's made up of gambling and tobacco and things like that. Like, are they still ethical? Okay. If they're generating returns from those things and pulling that into their business, how do you feel about that? I would say no. I would say no. Exactly. But shouldn't you know that? Shouldn't you be told that without having to do the deep dive that I do as a psychotic financial advisor right shouldn't we just be told that instead of like oh they're such a great business

and to be honest i'm pretty sure to become a b corp company you actually can't invest in those things so maybe that's a faux pas on my behalf it's just an example i'm using but yeah it's it's interesting what they're made up of and how that actually works why is the world like this why can't it all just be easy mate i don't know i don't make the rules with that v i think it is time for a little bit of a break. But don't you worry, guys, we will be back to chat ethics and super. Greenwashing, we're going to tap back into that. And we will be discussing whether it's unethical for us not to be investing ethically. Stick around, friends. Alrighty, V, hugely passionate show today. And you know where else we have hugely passionate

conversations on our facebook group on our youtube account not really there but newsletter you can tell i'm mad about this episode because i'm actually talking a lot faster than i usually do so i'm really sorry but i'm also kind of mad there's a lot to be mad about uh to start off this second half of the show v lord talk to us about superannuation is that something we can be doing ethically okay so great question and you my friends have so much control over your superannuation. There are lots of ethical super funds emerging. And at the moment, it is so exciting to see this happening because I think it's helping us put more of a priority on actually caring about our superannuation because that now is something that we can align to our values and

our ethics and watch and track and be excited about instead of feeling like, oh, I just feel like I don't have that much control over it. I'll worry about it later. Again, not all are created equally. So you do need to do your research into what they actually invest in. And some of the major players in this space I'm not going to be naming names here because I do not think that that is fair they wouldn't align to my goals and values for a number of reasons right so first would be price so being ethical yes it might cost you a little bit more but it shouldn't cost you significantly more and I do genuinely think maybe we should get into this as another episode because I do think that there are some super players out there at the moment who are taking the mickey in

a way to make sure that, you know, you're like, oh, great. I'm now with super fund X because they're ethical and they're run by women and they're for women. I'm sorry. Why super for women all of a sudden? Like, should I not just have access to the same investment portfolios a man has access to, to create my financial future? Like what is different about gendered super funds? What's that? What is that? I don't know what that is, but it makes me angry because it's kind of like sorry investments actually completely not gendered yes I'm I guess speaking from a position where I am the face of she's on the money but I'm not here saying that we need female specific products and it's kind of like the pink tax I genuinely think they're putting a pink tax on a

super product to make it look more appealing and look a little bit more friendly when in reality it's going to impact you worse because you're paying more fees and there's still the gender a pay gap gotcha so they're kind of capitalizing on exactly and they're making you feel a little bit more comfortable because you're like oh but it's female run and lead and it's built for me it's like well why wouldn't any other super fund be built for you with your priorities in mind if we're being brutally honest interesting maybe we should do an episode we will because i'm angry yeah and i think well that really does come as a surprise to me and i hadn't thought about that and know who you're talking about.

Yep. Yeah. And it's not hard to know who I'm talking about. Interesting. No. And it also really frustrates me because I look at these companies and that's why I'm not naming names because it's genuinely not fair for me to do that at this point.

But I look at these companies and a lot of their branding is around women and supporting women. But then also if you get deep down into it, it's like you don't support women. Like you're not making this cheaper for us. You're not making this easier for us. you've just got a beautiful like beautiful branding great marketing fantastic copywriting but I just genuinely look at it and I go that's a bit icky to me that that gives me the ick George.

Once again why is the world like this? I don't know but I also just get really mad about it and I feel like now we have got cheese on the money everybody can get mad about it and we can make a change for the better. Fantastic stuff can't wait. Okay back to greenwashing. Yes I really do I'm excited. Dedicated part of the show to talk about it, even though it has infiltrated the chat earlier. Sorry. That is fine. How is greenwashing impacting the share market? So it's pretty good for brands to promote your efforts in sustainability, social justice and animal rights, because people like to hear that the brands that they're aligning themselves with are doing good in the world and actually having a positive impact. Because of this, lots of brands, as you

mentioned earlier george have capitalized on this and they're making the most of these quote green labels to enhance their reputations this really frustrates me beyond belief so similarly some companies are starting to do the same with some quote ethical funds which when we actually look at the frame print they're not as ethical as we'd assumed they actually would be or expected from those businesses which makes us very frustrated just gives me the ick uh-huh but how then v how do we cut through that jargon? Cut through the marketing junk. How do we do it? How do we do it? It's a very good question and I wish it was easier than it actually is but essentially what we need to do is be aware. We need to know that a lot of people aren't privy to marketing tactics so just

being conscious that some companies will try and present themselves as ethical or green when really they're not is really important and that's why I'm so passionate about understanding how to read a PDS. So a PDS is a product disclosure statement. You don't need to read the whole thing. It is a very long, very wordy, usually the words are extra small. So like at least 10 point text, like they're never like 12 times New Roman, really easy to read like an essay. Like they just don't make it easy. They make it look really overwhelming. I'm convinced, and this is, this has absolutely no credibility to it. This statement is probably wildly inaccurate, but I'm convinced the smaller the text, the more intimidating it looks to read. So therefore,

you're more likely to not read it. Oh, 100%. Is that a thing? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So that's what they're doing with PDSs. But that is where you're going to find the nitty gritty of what they invest in, who gets paid what to have that investment there, where it was picked from, what the fees are, what the additional fees are. Because you can't just rely on the website to say, oh, it's $10. Great. Oh, and by the way, there's an admin fee of $2. And then there's an administration fee, which is different to the admin fee. That's 50 cents every single day. and then it blows out and you didn't know but then if you question them they'll be like oh but it was in our terms and conditions you agreed to this like oh but they were tiny and I didn't want

to read them yeah I get it but we need to learn to read these and this is where we need to learn to just scan them and I guess it's a bit high and mighty of me to say oh we need to learn to read them and I haven't shown you so maybe I'll do like an Instagram story of something just going hey cool. This is how I do it. And TLDR, usually I just use control F. So I look up fees and just control F, type in fees, and then in the PDS PDF, because that's a mouthful, it will then come up with fees and I'll go straight to that part of the document to read it. I'm obviously crazy and I do read it back to front, but I think if, you know, someone who's not a financial advisor is looking at it, they should really do that and look up what it's actually constructed of and why they've made

that decision. That's a good hack. Following on from that and my rant about PDF, PDSs on a larger level, there definitely needs to be tighter regulation in this space. And there needs to be a standardized version of what qualifies as ethical. Like what I was saying before about the organic thing, like why can't we just implement something like that? That's if you meet all of these criteria, you get the little badge and people can look for the badge and they can feel confident in the asset that they're purchasing. Instead of companies and funds just being able to give people the impression that they're ethical with sneaky advertising, that frustrates me beyond belief. So put simply, for the time being, we really just need to be doing our research and

asking a lot of questions. There should be like an ethical stamp, like that. Yeah, like the organic one, right? Like you can't use organic in Australia unless you've met that criteria and you don't use pesticides and you don't do this and you don't do that and all of that other fun stuff. Do you know, you might not be able to answer this, but is that a space that is improving and people working towards making that more transparent? Yeah, I think they are. I think they are, but it's very hard to make it transparent when the share market encompasses so many different companies and asset classes and it breaches into, well, international investments and it's a very complex space. Yeah. Which, yeah, that makes sense as to why it's not regulated, especially

with international stuff. Yeah. It's kind of like, let's just compare Coles and Woolies for a second. it's like great they're two supermarkets but then Audi comes into play and they all have different business models are we asking them to then change their entire business models to be similar yeah is that fair is that like how do we do that how do we yeah it's yeah it's a big chat it's a big chat it's a big chat we can't have today yeah okay uh last question for you here and I'm excited for your answer is it unethical for us not to invest ethically that's a hard question to answer it's a hard question to ask it was quite a mouthful yeah well that's why it was hard not because of the response wrapping your head around yeah sorry I think it's definitely personal preference there's

no right there's no wrong I don't think it's a bad thing if people like yeah but that aligns to my values like I'm someone who just wants you to be happy and have all the options available to you and if you've looked into it and you said, nah, like I'm still here, like cool. Like I really, really genuinely don't mind. I wouldn't be so harsh as to say that as a lot of people just don't fully understand what they're investing in. So I can't make a judgment. I can't pass judgment because it is not my place. My place is to educate you on what options exist. I will share my opinion and what I do. But if you came to me and said, hey, all I invest in is BHP, I'd be like, all power too. Yeah. Great. I don't mind at all because that's your choice and your values. And as a

person who genuinely believes deeply in understanding people's values, it's not my place to put mine on you. Good episode today, V. To recap, we've learned ethical investing is a great way of aligning your financial decisions with your values. It also means you can make an amazing return, which is a huge money win. And we do need to be really mindful of greenwashing. I I feel like that's the main theme of today's episode, because sometimes companies and funds can be a little bit naughty and not be transparent in this space. Hopefully that's changing, but sounds like it's going to be a long, hard road for that to happen.

I would agree. V, I think that is all we have time for today. Okay, but just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land which we are able to learn. We pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness. The advice shared on She's on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your

individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Devine is an authorised representative of Australia Pacific Funds management proprietary limited abn 34132463257 afsl 339151 and a big thank you to our big team of audio engineers yeah is it weird that it just used to be you and i sitting on the floor in one of my spare bedrooms and now we say things like audio engineers and producers i know babe weird flex we're growing we're excited weird flex weird flex if you love today's chat we would absolutely

love to hear about it so slide into our dms leave us a review rate us however many stars you think we are worthy of um on apple or subscribe on spotify i think there's been some not so nice commentary around just people thinking we're annoying recently i mean they're not wrong to be fair and you know like i'm happy for this to be in the podcast you know i don't read our podcaster reviews because i genuinely think if you're not willing to put your name to a review because a lot of it's like anonymous gal 999 you're like if you can't put your name to review cool but if you want to take the time to email me i will absolutely take that on and try my hardest to make sure that our podcast helps you in every single way possible but my dad does read

the reviews and then he calls and he's like oh my gosh are you okay and i'm like dad i didn't even read that i didn't see it but thank you for bringing it to my attention shout out to daddy if you do have feedback for the show guys where podcast and she's on the money.com.au we are always open to it and to be honest i try and take it on wherever possible obviously if you like victoria's voice is annoying sorry can't do a lot about that oh g king also annoying yeah sorry about that but i think it's really important to just point out like we're just two girls who are genuinely passionate about financial literacy trying to do the right thing and trying to grow our community because we want to change financial literacy in australia it's not us going okay cool

we have a podcast like we genuinely believe in this and we know given the size of our community now but we're having an impact and that's so cool Georgia absolutely um and sorry to anyone who complains about my laugh I feel like that's probably in the reviews that I don't read is it no don't read the reviews don't read the reviews anyway we will see you on Friday guys bye Thank you.