She's On The Money - Is renting forever an option?

Episode Date: September 7, 2021

Buying property at the moment seems SO far away for so many of us, so we pick the brains of Victoria Devine to see whether there is potential wealth creation possibilities if we don't or can't buy property.The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. As we've mentioned on the podcast quite a few times before, cracking the property market in Australia is no easy feat, and it does seem especially hard at the moment as house prices climb higher and higher in certain pockets of the country. While there are, of course, plenty of benefits to buying your own home, for many young Australians, the prospect of doing so

just isn't feasible so what are the benefits to renting forever can we still achieve a future of financial freedom without attaining the old school australian dream of home ownership my name is georgia king and joining me to answer these questions and more is financial advisor victoria divine hey hello hello doll um that was a long intro so i liked it it sounded very super serious and I didn't want to interrupt you. So I'm proud of you. I love it. Thanks Dom. Can you tell us straight off the top, what is happening with the Australian housing market right now? What is going on? It seems like it's exploding and it seems overwhelming and hard. And to be honest, it's one of those things where we're just going through a property boom and

that's okay. It doesn't mean that property is always going to be unaffordable, but it's one of those things that I think it makes us feel a lot of pressure because you go, I'm never going to achieve this. And this is really scary. And just looking at the stats since the start of 2021 in Sydney, the average dwelling price has gone up by 17.7%. And in Melbourne, it's up 11.1%. That is a lot of money. Like that's some pretty good investment returns if you already own an investment property though. So nice for you if you're already there. We are not those people, Georgia though. The price of property in Australia is actually rising at the fastest rate in over 17 years, which is crazy. And there are a few reasons for this. One is historically

low interest rates and increased borrowing capacity. So as you know, Georgia, in our community, a lot of people are complaining about their savings accounts having less interest payable And remember how sexy it was like literally 12 months ago, maybe a little over 12 months ago, we were talking about how good it was that like UpBank had 2.5% interest rates. And I know that that was really sexy, but those things never last because if bank interest rates are decreasing on how much they're willing to pay you on your savings account, it means that the same is actually going to be true for mortgages. So it's a good thing and a bad thing. I mean, savings aren't performing as well as they could, but our property is more accessible. In saying

that, given property prices are growing at the fastest rate that they have in the last 17 years, I would argue that they may be not as accessible as they used to be. On top of that, government incentives like the first home buyer deals that are around and negative gearing, those are all things that we are really seeing impact the really strong surges in property price. I think added to that. We've got all of the lockdowns we've been going through, people wanting to upgrade their homes to make them more comfortable because of the uncertainty that exists around, you know, how long am I going to be stuck in a home? Okay, now I can work remotely. Maybe we should actually buy a house, but we can afford to buy something a little bit further out because we're no longer

traveling to work every day because we get to work from home. I think there are a lot of reasons playing into it as well as, and this is just my opinion, FOMO. So people knowing that during lockdowns we can't purchase so there seems to be a strong surge straight after lockdowns of property being sold which i think is really interesting but i think the most important thing to remember here is it's completely unsustainable like which means it won't last forever no it won't last forever because it can't okay like it can't like georgia at the moment it's obviously unobtainable for so many of us and we are now being asked to save ridiculous amounts for home deposits. And I think if we look at historically what homes used to cost, and you

can argue with me about inflation and the rising costs of wages, but to put this in perspective, historically, a property might have cost you like two times your annual salary. And now properties are costing between 10 and 15 times our annual salary, which obviously makes it harder to obtain, but also harder to pay off, harder to create wealth with and harder to access. So it's not as though these things are comparable. And I know so many people will go, oh yeah, but they used to have lower wages. Yes. They also had increased interest rates, like interest rates on property where my parents first bought were up in the twenties. And we are now at a point where it's 2%, which means it should be more affordable, but the comparison between how much it costs us

relative to our incomes is so significantly higher these days that I don't think it's sustainable going forward. Like it's already 10 times our salary, Georgia, to buy in Melbourne. Imagine if it was 20, we genuinely couldn't afford it. Like most people can't at this point in time afford to get into the property market. And I think it's fair. And that's why we are now talking about what renting forever actually means. So just on that V, are you saying that it's not sustainable because people literally can't enter the home buyers market anymore? So the prices will just have to come down because there won't be that demand because we just can't do it. Is that? I think that they'll cap out. So what I'm saying is they absolutely cannot

continue to grow at the same rate that they have for the last year and even for the last 30 years because it becomes unaccessible like we aren't actually going to have people to buy the properties and property is based on supply versus demand so if there's a supply and a demand it is going to increase the property prices but how much supply isn't going to matter if the demand isn't there because we can't afford the property yeah like if i said to you georgia all right well we want to buy a property and you've got a really normal salary and you want to buy a property with your partner, you both have really normal salaries. How much is that going to cost? And I said, it's going to be $3 million as a start point. You go, cool. I can't afford that. I'll never

be able to afford that, especially as a first home. So I think that we need to remember that at some point it will tap out, but also what if we didn't want to buy property in the first place? Exactly. And that's kind of what we're talking about today, because we do often assume that having property is the great Australian dream. But technically it is the great Australian dream because that's historically what we've been fed and what we've been told is really important and what we should value. Exactly. But it's not necessarily what we all actually want, which leads me to my next question, Vy, because you recently, relatively recently bought a home. I did. You've said on the podcast before that property wasn't a priority for you. You didn't

see it necessarily as the be all and end all from an investment or financial perspective. So can you talk to us about why that is and why property isn't necessarily the best investment out there? Yeah. I am just going to preface this because I know I'm incredibly privileged to be able to do that. And the way you explained that makes it sound like I was like, oh my gosh, I'll just buy a property because I can't know that absolutely wasn't the case. I bought a property with my partner, Steve, because it was a really big value set of his. I had always thought of property as something that was a really large commitment that I wasn't necessarily sure I wanted to commit to. As you know, I am a financial advisor, so I have done

all of the stats and maths behind it. So I'd worked out that, you know, if I invested my money in the shares that I was investing in, instead of purchasing property for me financially, that was going to work out better long-term. And it also, to me, felt like less of a commitment. And I could, you know, at that point in time, live the life that I wanted. I had a boyfriend, Steve, and we were renting together. We lived in a really nice townhouse. To me, there was actually just no reason to purchase. But one of his core values and one of his biggest money goals was to purchase a home. And when you get into a relationship, you need to make sure that you're on the same page and share your money goals and share your aspirations. And because I knew that it was

such a big factor for him, I also took on that and was like, yep, okay, no problems. Like let's make that a money goal because in all honesty, his happiness is also my happiness. And I know that's really sappy, but we started saving really aggressively to achieve that goal. So you're right. I sit on both sides of the fence as a homeowner. Yep. Great. But did you know, I also got my rates bill recently and it's close to $3,500 and that is a lot of money to have to pay for rates. Like I don't want to be somebody else's landlord. So to me, property wasn't the sexiest of options because I also didn't like the idea of debt, but it was his and we've done that and I'm really happy and I'm really grateful. And you know, as I said before,

we both really privileged to have been able to save and actually purchase a property. I mean, it's definitely within our means as you've seen Georgia we have a delightful broken red kitchen and some very unattractive bathrooms but we'll work on that as we start saving and actually putting that into the budget so that's not the priority for right now but you're right I've always said I would prefer to rent and the reason I would prefer to rent is because I see better returns in another place for myself personally I think that there might be a little bit of difference around this episode and what people are expecting from it, because we're talking about renting forever as a choice, not renting forever because you have to. Because I

think that the important thing here is, and Georgia, I know you're going to get into the stats before, is that if you look at the research, people who own homes are financially better off. But the reason for that is because we've never historically been in a position where renting forever has been an option while also investing. We've always just seen renting forever as not being able to afford to invest or buy a home or whatever that means to you. But now you're starting to see people who are turning away from the idea of buying property and renting forever and choosing the share investment. Yeah. And you're seeing the property market start to catch up with that too. So historically, it's always been 12 month leases and people are now one being

more flexible in the terms and conditions in those leases, allowing things like minor modifications of the house and painting, but also pets. And also a lot of landlords are now offering longer leases because they want tenants in their property for long periods of time. But on the flip side, as a renter, you probably want the stability as well to say, okay, well, I don't have to review this every 12 months because I actually signed a five-year lease. And it's one of those things that I think the real estate market is starting to catch up with what the priorities of millennials are. Yeah, right. That's interesting. So, V, if we are choosing this option then, is it true that someone who rents could end up as financially well off as someone who has a home

at the time of retirement. Yeah, absolutely. And again, this is not comparing people who are forced to rent forever because they can't afford to invest and they can't afford to buy property. We are talking about actively choosing to just rent forever while investing in other assets to create wealth. So yes, they absolutely could. And if we look at the performance of property versus shares over the long term, and we never want to just look at what performs better because there's actually a lot that plays into it like our actual values and making sure that we are choosing things that make sense for us but when you look at it shares outperform property by a very significant percentage that is not opinion it is just fact if you invested in property and

you invested in shares your shares are very likely to perform higher than property and that's not even taking into consideration the fact that you'll have rates and like maintenance on that property over the long term and the commitment to a mortgage, which, you know, I love the idea of investing in shares because I'd like flexibility. If I don't want to invest one month, I don't have to. Whereas if you have a mortgage, you have to pay that regardless. So that's not opinion. That is just fact. So yes, absolutely. Someone who rents forever can actually retire with the same, if not more than somebody who is a homeowner, but that is assuming that you don't just go, okay i can't afford property i'm not going to prioritize wealth creation like the expectation

to prioritize your wealth creation still exists you are just actively choosing another asset class okay um and i feel like you've said before v something about like your primary residence isn't necessarily an investment because you're living in it and you can't just like click your fingers and then have the cash that it might be worth. Like, can you talk us through that a little bit more? Yeah, absolutely. So let's use you as an example again, because I love just throwing you under a bus. And I don't mean that literally, it just makes sense to the example. Imagine if it was literally, and you just loved throwing me under buses. But let's, I don't, I love you Ging, but when we talk about your primary residence or your family home, not being an asset that I think

is a wealth asset. It's because to actually get that wealth working for you, you have to extinguish that asset and sell it. You need to liquidate it. You need to actually turn that into cash or an investment that makes you money. And the home that you live in does not make you money because you're not renting it out. I mean, there are lots of ways to do that. You might have a housemate and that might give you an income source, but we're just talking about a base. George King goes and buys a house and lives in it. Let's say that you go and buy a house Georgia for $500,000. And by the time you retire, that property is worth $1.5 million, which is actually the reality of a lot of people who are retiring at this point in time. And they say things like, oh my gosh, I'm fine.

Our house is worth so much more than what I originally paid for it. You go, okay, cool. But that's only helpful to us in our wealth creation journey and the journey to actually creating an income in retirement. If you go and sell that house and go back and invest that $1 million difference and go and buy another $500,000 house and live in that. And they go, oh no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to move. This is the home that I've lived in. You go, okay, cool. So regardless of whether it's worth $500,000 or $1.5 million, it doesn't actually matter because that is not going to be playing into your wealth creation. That is not going to play into you having a safe and comfortable retirement because no matter how nice your house is, you need income

to be able to pay for that house and have the electricity be turned on and put food on the table and potentially send your kids to school. So the important thing there is not seeing your primary residence or your home as an investment because it is not one. And I say that kindly, and I know that a lot of first homeowners are going to be like, yeah, but like, I'm so proud of this. And I am too. I really am. But when it comes to saving for retirement, that's not what we're talking about. Like having a fancy family home just means you have a fancy family home. It doesn't mean that you have more income coming in in retirement, which is ideally what we are working towards. And I think that this is one of the fallacies that exists in Australia.

And that is people going, yeah, but like I bought a really fancy family home and paid it off and now I'm retiring, but they haven't prioritized another form of investment or their superannuation. And they end up with these really expensive homes that they are forced to sell so that they can then afford to retire. And if I'm getting you, gee, you are in your twenties. If I'm getting you now and I can educate you on this right now, you're not going to be in that position in the future where you just relied on paying off your mortgage as a form of wealth creation. And I'm not saying that paying off your mortgage is bad, like definitely do that. But we can't only rely on that unless that was your wealth creation strategy so to flip everything that i have just

told you some people's wealth creation strategy is actually have a big family home have the kids have the dog but when they retire they downsize and they sell that home because they don't need all of the bedrooms for the kids and they buy something smaller and then invest the amount of money that they had that was the difference between what the house is worth versus what the house was actually originally bought for and they create wealth that way. But when I talk about it, I just don't want people to be forced to sell their family homes without having the education that they deserve access to. If that's your plan, I love it. I'm glad you have a plan, but that's just it. We need a plan. Do you find that a lot of home buyers tend to limit themselves

to just that investment because they think that's all they need to worry about, that's done and adjusted, financially set up and ready to go where they could be maybe making the most of the share market as well. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where as millennials, and I know that not everybody listening to our podcast is a millennial, but gee, you and I are. So speaking from experience, a lot of us will go down to the bank and say, okay, bank, I have been saving my butt off and I have a home deposit. How much money can I borrow? And they say, gee, you can borrow a million dollars and you go great well I guess I'll spend a million dollars then but you don't comprehend what that million dollars actually means when in reality if you'd done your budget and your cash

flow and actually paid attention to what you wanted to create when it comes to wealth maybe you would have worked out that you didn't actually want to spend more than six hundred thousand dollars just because you can borrow it doesn't mean you should spend it you need to make sure that it makes sense for your financial situation and you're still putting future you first whereas if you put yourself in a position for the next 30 years because that's how long a mortgage is where every single spare dollar that you have has to go towards paying off that mortgage one gee sorry to tell you you're not going overseas again because you can't afford it but two for 30 years you haven't been prioritizing wealth creation this isn't something that you can

just put to the side and be like oh yeah once the mortgage is gone i'll care about it because you've missed out on 30 years of compounding interest. That is why we need to care about it. And getting back to the point of this episode, that is also why some people are like, I really just don't want to own property. I don't want the commitment. I don't want the long-term debt. I don't actually want this as a responsibility. So I'm going to create wealth in another way and maybe invest it in a different asset class and choose to rent. And I think that that is a very viable option if it makes sense for you. Definitely. The other thing that we've spoken about on the pod before is rent vesting. So that's the idea that you rent in maybe a suburb that you

can't afford to buy in and then have tenants in a property that's located somewhere that is affordable to buy in. What are the main perks of doing that? So there are a few, obviously you get to maintain living in this suburb that you want to live in. Maybe you want to live in inner city Richmond, and you definitely couldn't have afforded to purchase the townhouse that you live in. So maybe you purchase a little bit further out and rent that out. That is you creating wealth for the long term by choosing property as your asset class. Essentially, it's similar to saying, okay, well, I'm still going to invest in something. It's just, I'm going to rent. Whereas renting forever would assume that you're investing in another asset. So you're investing in shares instead of

in another property and again that comes with a number of hurdles like we did a whole episode on rent vesting but rent vesting means you still have to come up with a deposit you're still stuck with a 30-year mortgage and if you don't pay it one month that's actually not an option and you've got the added bonus of having to manage tenants and what happens on the months when maybe the house isn't leased out like can you afford that difference it's all just about working out what strategy works for you. And I've got clients on both sides of the fence. I've got clients who are rent festers. I've got clients who are homeowners and live in the home. And I've also got clients who have really great salaries. They have really high combined incomes and they're choosing to rent

because they're just like, I don't want property. I just want to invest in shares and have financial freedom sooner rather than later. And I respect all of those options. The point of this episode is talking about what that option means, because I think that there's this massive misconception that renting forever means that you can't afford to retire, that you can't afford to invest, that you can't afford to do things when in reality, renting forever could actually give you freedom to retire early. Definitely. All right. We are going to leave it here for now, but we'll be back after the break to debunk exactly why rent money is not dead money, as well as all of the perks that come with renting forever so stick around friends

okay they back into it people often say that rent money is dead money you and I do not agree with that but can you give us like a really juicy like one or two line answer for when the next for the next time when someone says that to us yeah that did that make sense grammatically I don't know but you know what i'm trying to say it's just dumb it's just a podcast dumb you just tell that person that is dumb and then you don't talk to them again no why though the actual answer is rent money is not dead money because i'm sorry what are you doing if you're not paying rent or putting a roof over your head like rent is an essential cost yes a level of luxury comes into it you might choose to live in a city in a fancy apartment and that's completely up to you that's

where lifestyle comes into it. But I genuinely believe that rent is a lifestyle cost. So yes, to a certain extent, it's a hygiene factor. We need to put a roof over our heads. We need to actually have a home. We need to live somewhere. But when it comes to spending more money on rent, that is a lifestyle decision. And you're investing in that lifestyle that that rent and living in that location can afford you. So for me, I think it is an essential cost and people need to stop saying like, oh, rent money is dead money. I'd much prefer to put it towards a mortgage instead of paying somebody else's mortgage. And you go, okay. But even if you were putting it into your own mortgage, are you actually creating wealth or are you financially crippling yourself for the

long-term? Because too many times do people prioritize having a mortgage that financially cripples them, gives them a life that they don't love because they are not financially able to afford anything more outside of that like maybe renting inner city richmond and i keep using this as an example it's just because it's close to where we both live g but maybe you're renting there and enjoying the lifestyle if you'd purchased you actually wouldn't be able to enjoy the lifestyle even if you were in a great location because you don't have the free cash flow so i think it's far from dead money and i think it's some of the most important money you'll ever spend in your life but not every dollar that you earn is actually savable and i think that that's

really important to remember as well regardless of what you are doing you have to pay money to put a roof over your head and i'm just not going to be swallowing the argument of yeah but you could be putting it towards a mortgage okay cool but like you could also be renting somewhere relatively cheap and investing and creating more wealth than a mortgage would ever create for you so please stop arguing with me do you think it is almost a bit like it has a bit of boomer energy about it. You know what I mean? Like a very, you want to just be like, okay, boomer, no problems. And I get that. And maybe it was back then, maybe back in their day, G, when they had really high interest rates, but property was quite accessible because it was only one or two times their annual

salary. Then maybe it was like, yeah, you're right. It just makes more sense to purchase. but given property now is between 10 and 15 times our annual salaries, that's actually not that feasible. Like that argument doesn't stand up in the same way that it used to. So I think that for us, we need to remember that it is not just a lifestyle cost. It's actually a necessity and rent money is absolutely not dead money. And I would like to cancel that phrase. Yes. Okay. That was the answer I wanted. Thank you very much. Okay. So let's talk through the benefits of renting forever you can do what you want gee literally you could have a tree change one year and then you could have a beach change the next i'm not by no means saying that that is

exactly what you want to do but there's obviously more freedom and more flexibility to live the life that you want and obviously this means you've got the freedom to rent in certain school zones which could be really helpful for you and also renting locations that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford anyway like how good would it be to go live in toorak gee i mean fancy doll i'm not gonna go live in toorak i obviously don't want to live there but like i definitely couldn't afford to purchase there but you know what i can afford a lease there so if that's the lifestyle you want to live you can still live it and i think that that is really cool you also save a huge fee for a deposit and the stamp duty on purchasing a property you don't have that financial burden

of having to save up for 10 plus years in some circumstances to purchase. And you don't have to pay off a mortgage, which is a non-negotiable, very high cost, which can be extremely stressful for so many people while it is not your home. Also, gee, it's not your house. So if the hot water system breaks, somebody else has to pay for it. If that's not a money win, I don't know what it is. And then obviously you're going to get more flexibility with your savings. You can invest more in the share market, if that's what you want to do. And you don't have to worry about putting all your savings towards a deposit because you're creating wealth somewhere else and you're creating wealth then and there. So lots of people who save for a home and have home buying as their

goal, just don't consider investing because they have to aggressively save. And I just want to remind everybody that this isn't opinion. This is literally me saying, Hey, here are some benefits of doing this. If you want to save for a home, like go get it. I want to hear about it, friend. I want to know what you are doing. We are just talking about normalizing all the different options that are available to all of us to make sure we are picking the right one for our situation. And if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, why is Victoria trying to convince us to rent? I'm not, but a lot of people are going to listen to this episode and resonate and be like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad someone said that that was okay. Cause that was my plan.

Like that's what I wanted to do. I don't want to own property. It wasn't my value. and I'm telling you right now, if I hadn't met Steve and property wasn't one of his values, I wouldn't own a property. I just don't want that responsibility. And I love the idea of having the flexibility of a lease and creating wealth outside of that. And I've said that before, but I think it's just really important to remind you all right then and there. Yeah. And I think it's a comforting idea that for people like myself who have felt for years now quite overwhelmed by the housing market and you know still holding on to this dream but not really sure why i have it but i'm renting for now but but how will i end up being okay like it's comforting

to know that we can rent and just create an investment strategy and still end up in a really good place oh my gosh yes you are going to be fine you do not and i think that this is what i want you to leave this episode with is the knowledge that you do not need to buy a home to be financially stable you do not need to have a mortgage to be relevant you do not need to have a mortgage to actually create wealth you can start creating wealth you know our friends at shares is you can invest five dollars and start creating wealth whereas with a home in melbourne you're gonna need a minimum of a hundred thousand dollars saved before you're even able to walk into a house like it is insane and those hurdles are only getting higher and I know at the start of this

episode I said they're not going to keep going as high as they currently are and the reality is even if they stop growing at this point there's still going to be hurdles that are not able to be jumped over by all of us and they are still things that are getting in our way and I think that explaining why renting forever is a good idea for some people actually just makes sense and talking about the fact that I literally have so many people that I would consider wealthy as clients of mine that do not own property. And to be honest, I think there's something really sexy and really kind of like romantic about the idea that they're just financially free human beings. Like they just don't have flexible. Yeah. They just have this level of flexibility. And once you can come to

a conclusion that works for you, it just makes sense because I know it's a massive pressure. And I know that, you know, even looking at my own friend circle, sorry, friends love you, bye. But even looking at them, they all want that too. So it would be really hard to be surrounded by people who all own homes or have that value of owning homes. And I know, Georgia, you've got some friends that have recently purchased and that's really exciting, but it would be silly of us to say, oh, I don't feel any pressure because they've done it. we all do we think about it and go wow like that was a pretty big financial goal they achieved i feel not as good because they achieved that but it's one of those things where we need to normalize that different outcomes are good for different types of people and just because you haven't purchased a home does not make your investment strategy or your wealth creation strategy or your money journey any less valid brilliant oh i feel empowered i feel seen i feel heard are you ready to sign a lease no okay all right so jk not good at commitment of any form absolutely not um

before we head off b we should probably chat about the potential cons just to make it a more balanced episode balance it out that sounds quite fair i think that there are a few cons we need to be honest about this so in contrast having a house and needing to meet payments for some people can actually act as forced saving plan. With renting, it can sometimes be a lot harder to save and invest because you just feel like it's free cash flow. Some people actually need the structure of a mortgage to actually be able to save. And I'm not saying that as a suggestion. I literally know that is true because I have seen it. Sometimes having that mortgage there forces people to prioritize saving when they hadn't done that prior. As previously mentioned, it can actually

make things a little bit trickier in retirement, but to combat this, we can make additional contributions to superannuation. We can start to invest in the share market and we can start when we're young. So it's not all doom and gloom. Like it is not a bad thing. And at the end of the day, when it does come to leasing, we need to be honest about the fact that you are at the mercy of your landlord. So regardless of the fact that, you know, you've signed a one-year lease or even a five-year lease, you really can't know how long you'll be able to live in that home. And if you're a bit of a home body and you just don't like moving or you don't like change like maybe that's not a strategy that is going to work for you and that's why it's so important to remember our own

values around what we want from life and what I want Georgia might be very different to what you want because I don't mind moving whereas you might go oh no like I hate being uprooted that is the worst thing ever like maybe a part of your money story is that you just want the stability of having your own home i get it i'm not saying that this is for everybody like i talk to people all the time who value purchasing a home because that was something that they never had and i think it is really important to acknowledge that as well we are not saying that this is an option that is for everybody we are just saying this is an option that you need to be educated on and you are going to make the right decision based on the values that you hold okay well i mean that there weren't

as many cons as I expected there to be. Look, there aren't that many. I mean, I tried really hard to scrape those ones together, but I had to be honest because clearly I'm a little bit biased and think that it is a really good strategy, especially for millennials, like looking at the property market, looking at the share market, looking at the numbers behind everything. I do think that renting forever is going to be something that we see a lot more people choosing actively over the next few years. All right, V, well, I think that is all we have time and yeah once again I just feel quite relieved I guess is the feeling because I know myself and so many of my friends have been feeling that real sense of overwhelm when it comes to the property

market and just not really believing that we'll ever be able to get there and knowing that there is now this other option that no one really speaks about I don't think we don't really speak about the benefits of using this as a strategy it's really exciting no because I think people automatically think like you either purchase a home or you rent and they see renting as a subpar option like it's the thing you have to do like but you can also actively choose to do that as a part of your wealth creation strategy and i think it's pretty sexy if i'm honest love love that but all right let's leave it there we are done my friends i am sorry but as always just before we head off we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to australia's aboriginal and

Torres Strait Islander peoples they're the traditional custodians of the lands the waterways and the skies all across Australia we thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn we pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness and remember guys the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances sorry she's on the money if only she's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision.

And we promise Victoria Devine is an authorised representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management, Proprietary Limited, ABN 34132463257, AFSL 339151. See you next week, guys. Hope you all well. Love you all. Until next week. Bye.

Bye, guys. Thank you.