She's On The Money - Is this Giving MLM Vibes? And the Hidden Cost of Being Financially Responsible

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

If it looks like an MLM and quacks like an MLM… is it an MLM? That's the big dilemma our community member needs help with this week. Her brother is obsessed with a “self-development program” that’s apparently changing his life (and draining his bank account). Now he’s trying to sign up the rest of the family, and  it's giving MLM vibes. Then we’re jumping into another all-too-relatable situation: being the financially responsible one in a relationship. You’re saving for a shared goal, they’re spending big elsewhere. How do you get on the same page without turning into the budget police? It's slightly chaotic, surprisingly wise, and just the Friday fix you need. Ready for more laughs, lessons, and unhinged money chats? Check out our oh-so-bingeable Friday Drinks playlist. Listen here. Join our 300K+ She's on the Money community in our Facebook Group and on Instagram.  Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Natasha Bamblett, I'm a proud First Nations woman, and I'm here to acknowledge country. Tii, gilinyan ganya, nianakaka yao yinbina waka, nianakai nianbina yakarumja, duminyagumiga dumiga ithawaka nirawamundamun imalan, mumubangada boma ininyalan waka, gaunan yakarumja, wutunadana. Hello beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people, we thank acknowledge and respect the aboriginal people's land that we're gathering on today take pleasure in all the land and respect all that you see she's on the money podcast acknowledges culture country community and connections bringing you the tools

knowledge and resources for you to thrive she's on the money she's on the money Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast that makes personal finance fun, especially on Fridays. It is our favorite day of the week because we get the team together to celebrate you, our incredible She's on the Money community. Miss Jessica Ritchie is going to be sharing our favorite money wins. Beck is away again. So I'm going to be sharing this week's broke tips and we'll be helping to answer a money dilemma, which is all about being the quote financially responsible one in a relationship and something that you slid into our DMs about this week. Your sibling keeps getting caught up in something that is giving MLM vibes. And we all

know how I feel about MLM. So I cannot wait to get into that before we get there though. Miss Jessica Ricci how was the week that was it's lovely I wanted to do last night I went and saw the new fantastic four which was great very much I ran into Beck how funny oh I feel like I got that invite as well was that the PR invite you would have got that yeah what was Beck doing there so Jess got it through work apparently but it's so funny we walked in James and I we were a little bit late and then I just hear Jessica Ricci and I'm like where is this voice coming from it was beck and jess it was so funny so cute i really wanted to go but at the moment i feel like i'm really having to balance my social like yeah what i'm doing socially because i feel not guilty but

like i just don't have the energy like tonight we're going out for drinks yes you and i are going out for drinks with our amazon family which will be really fun but i was like i cannot back that up i cannot do a movie premiere and then like after work drinks i'm sorry that's too much for me and also low-key I feel rude being like to my husband you've got the baby two nights in a row bye sucked in on a weeknight oh rude but anyway how's your week been um it's been good I've got work drinks tonight with Amazon which honestly sounds really fancy but honestly will be so nice because most of the Amazon team and this is I don't know why I'm telling you this but maybe you'll find it interesting actually based in Sydney and so many of our other brand partners

are based in Sydney as well so whenever they do like oh end of financial year drinks or whatever usually Jess you and I have to be like oh thanks for the invite but we're not in Sydney and like we don't have the capacity to just fly up so I think it'll be so nice and I know that there are going to be probably a lot of other faces that we know there tonight so that'll be good but yeah I'm gearing up I'm off to Bali soon so I am going yeah just a little bit nuts with packing already like getting my stuff together ordering outfits oh my goodness yeah and it's like winter. Yeah. And I've been trying to find baby swimsuits. So painful. Yeah. Anyway, I got one on eBay. So money win. Love that. Money win. So I was thinking, would you like a five star

review before we get into your broke tips? Honestly, they are my absolute favorite. So this one this week comes from Riri and she says, I wanted to write this review to say thank you for the big impact your podcast has had on my finances and on my life. I used to be an absolute mess when it came to saving and spending. But now I finally have a budget, a healthy emergency fund, and I even am investing in shares. Please never stop making this show. Oh, well done, Riri. That's so exciting. I just love when you guys are like, I have my shit together. And I'm like, how good does that feel? Snaps for you, queen. That's wonderful. All right. Keeping up the good vibes, Miss Jessica Ritchie, what money wins and confessions are you bringing to us this week from

the group all right this week firstly one from lauren who said i got audited by the ato but i was great i didn't lie on anything and i just ended up owing them 39 for a simple mistake that she'd made but the ato decided to waive it and cancel the audit sorry what unheard of who did you sleep with at the ato i'm sorry but that's what you get for being a good person good things happen to good people sorry if you're always just being a good person good things are going to happen. I completely agree. Next, I've got a money win from Anya who said money win. I received a big dividend payment from Sharesies, which I then reinvested into my shares account. And she also found a $15 desk on Facebook marketplace. Isn't that so good? It was like dividend payment time

at the start of this month. Yeah. And I like posted a screenshot to my stories. I was like, baby, it's dividend season. Cause I had like all these little notifications for all my ETFs. And it was like, you just got paid 30 cents. And I was like, thanks. And I will take it and I will be happy for it. Next, I've got a money win from Anita who said, hee hee, I hacked, in quotes, my teen daughter's Instagram account and followed she's on the money now. So she has inspiring financial tips from awesome role models popping up in her feed. I love you. And I'm assuming she didn't actually hack it because it's in quotation marks. I think she just was cheeky and logged on. But also like, sorry, if you leave your phone unlocked on the bench, I think that's fair game

to follow me. I completely agree. And thanks for the follow. We really appreciate it. Next, I've got a money win from Delia who said she used our prompt to get discounts on her phone bill and her car insurance. And she's been shopping smart with Woolies and now has $60 of rewards banked towards Christmas. Money win. I was actually having a conversation in my DMs this week with someone who was like, oh, V, you keep saying that you need to renegotiate like your mortgage rate and just call your bank up and see if you can get a better deal. But like, I'm so stumped. Like I'm so bad at like advocating for myself. And I was like, do you know that there are prompts on our website? Like we have a whole ebook that you

can download for free that basically has a script on what to say and what to plug in and how to get a better deal. And she was like, Victoria, this is exactly what I was looking for. 20 minutes later, a message. I got a discount. Exactly. Amazing. We'll pop into that in the show notes if you want to get yourself a better deal too, just like Delia did. Next I've got a money win from Rose who said she did her tax return and she's realized that over the past five years her income has increased by $40,000. Um sorry. Is it and I'm assuming that's just like you know a little bit each year over those years. Yeah it all adds up. Yeah so look at where you've come from because I think sometimes in our journey we can forget

like what we've done. Yeah. And maybe your tax return's a good time to do it. And then lastly this week I've got a money win from Kelly who said she filled up her car with a locked in fuel price at 7-Eleven and she got to redeem a reward because I think it's every seven times you go. What was your reward? Did she tell us? Yeah, she got a free Krispy Kreme and I had a giggle because I did that this morning. I picked up my free Krispy Kreme. Did you actually get a free Krispy Kreme? That was my breakfast. That is such a good money win. Like we have historically worked with 7-Eleven, but like I use that app on a weekly basis. Like whenever I'm, you know, thinking about fuel, I'm like, oh, just have a look. And sometimes I get a little bit cocky.

I don't know about you, but I look at the price lock that I could put in and I'm like, no, I'm going to see what I could get tomorrow. And then I like check tomorrow and I'm like, haha, went down by two cents. I'm going to lock that in. Anyway, I just, I don't know, I feel powerful. Free Krispy Kreme. My favorite thing in the world. Exactly. I tagged you in a thing on Instagram the other day and I was like, Jess, remember the time we made a whole cake out of Krispy Kremes? Oh, that was a very good day. We should do that again. We should absolutely do that again. So that was a good wrap. I have the absolute privilege of

getting Bec's whole Broke Tips segment. So I hope I do do this justice. The first Broke Tip I have got a lot of love in our community on our Broke Tips thread. This one comes from Jennifer and she says, if you belong to any coffee clubs that do loyalty cards with stamps or digital freebies, hang on to the freebie for public holidays when the cost gets much higher for your free coffee then. Genius. Are you joking? You're a genius. She's hacked the system. No service surcharge because the coffee is free. Sorry, you're a genius. The next one comes from Lily and I'm sorry, I forgot that this even existed as an option. IKEA family membership do 50% off main meals on Fridays. $26.50 for what's actually a very nice meal plus Hoyts points used for discount

movie tickets and you've got a very cheap date night. Oh my god that's perfect because there's a Hoyts and an Ikea at Richmond. You cannot tell me that Ikea meatballs don't slap. Oh my god they're so the veggie balls are also delicious. I don't care anything from Ikea. The desserts elite next level like 10 out of 10. We should probably go and do an is it worth it at Ikea. and be like, let's try the meatballs again. It's been years. A little wander through Ikea. I just love a brown.

Prove not to, prove not to. All right, and the last one I've got this week is from Daria and she says, as I've got a school-aged kid at home, I was approved for free internet and free school bus tickets for them, which is now saving me $100 a month. Free internet?

Oh my God, that's so good. She didn't provide us with any information, so I had to do a little bit of research, But the Australian government is providing a school student broadband initiative, or the SSBI, which provides free NBN internet to eligible families with school-aged children. It's only until the end of this year, but like free internet, say less. That's amazing. That's so good. Go get on that if you've got kids.

Absolutely. And that's all I've got for Broke Tips, Jess. Amazing. I'm excited. let's go to a really quick break because on the flip side we're going to be answering a money dilemma which is all about being the financially responsible one in a relationship and something that you slid into our dms about your sibling is getting caught up in something that's giving mlm vibes so guys don't go anywhere welcome back everybody let's take a listen to this week's

money dilemma. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's on the Money team is here to help. Every week we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording and you might just find yourself on the show. Now let's take a listen to this week's money dilemma. Hi, She's on the Money. I'm hoping you can help me figure out how to have a serious money conversation with my partner. For a bit of context, we've been together for four years, living together for two, and we already have a joint account we both transfer to monthly. I have a steady income and have set up some good money habits with automatic

transfer set up to go to dedicated accounts. My partner's money story is very different. He comes from a family farm and for a long time, he never received a regular wage. We just request a draw as needed. So as a result, he never developed any good money habits and has no savings. Last financial year, the family partnership changed so that he now receives a weekly wage. This is a very low amount, about a quarter of my income. I've offered multiple times to assist my partner in setting up his finances,

and we have allocated amounts on paper and opened a savings account. But I know he does not yet have any automatic transfers set up as he says he prefers to move his money himself. But an added frustration is I have to remind him every month to transfer to our own joint account. On top of this, we're planning some renovations. I've been saving for a while now and have about $40,000 saved.

Once upon a time, he said he would match me when the time came, but I doubt this will happen now. I've asked many times if he can contribute to the reno fund or just how he seems it going, but he never wants to talk about it. I've also said I do not expect him to match my monthly contribution as I do have a high income, but I still am yet to see anything from him. I feel I'm stuck in this awkward situation where I don't want to push him about his money and his savings habits, but I regularly see him spend money

in large sums and get very frustrated and concerned that we are not matching our goals. I've tried to express my concerns, but his response is always, I know, I understand. It'll be right. And I still see no action. Please help. That's such a hard one, isn't it? I feel like that's a very classic Australian farming community. Like, she'll be right. We'll figure it out. Like, I think that's very like salt of the earth, traditional take on things. Like I have family in like rural Australia. And like, I think that attitude is very much like a common thing. It sounds like if I had to take a guess,

I think he's embarrassed. I think it would be hard probably for him to be earning a quarter of what you are. And it's good that you're acknowledging that his ability to save would be a lot lower than yours. But I do think that it sounds like whether it's because his financial literacy isn't as good as yours or whether it's not a priority and he's not comfortable saying that, I feel like potentially there's a little bit of emotion tied up in this. And that's kind of what's got him putting the wall up. I think that it's hard because you can't crack someone open if they don't want to talk to you but he is your partner and I think that if he doesn't want to save for the renovation you know if he has other priorities that and that's where he's spending

the large sums of money on or whatever that looks like it's okay but if you guys aren't on the same page like that's something that you need to have a serious conversation about and he needs to be comfortable being honest with you I know that it's hard to you know talk about something especially if you are feeling embarrassment or if you are feeling you know not taking a wage for a long time maybe he's feeling behind or I don't want to stereotype but I think again especially in rural areas I do think there is a level of traditionalism that exists when it comes to gender roles and things like that and so that may be playing an element into it as well I think that it sounds like you're doing all of the right things and maybe you do just need to have like a serious

moment with your partner and say, hey, I'm starting to feel really concerned. I'm starting to feel really left out in the dark. Open the door and say to him, it's okay if you don't want to say for these things, or it's okay if you are feeling some type of way, you know, we're a team, I'm here to support you. And whatever that looks like, if you want to transfer manually, that's cool, but you've got to do it. What's the barrier for you there? I think we've got to kind of figure out what's preventing him from doing the things that he's saying he's going to do is it because he's not remembering okay can you set up reminders or is it because it's not a priority to him and if so that's okay but he needs to feel comfortable saying that to you yeah and it's so tricky because

obviously we don't have any insight into your relationship or him as a person yeah it's so hard I'm making a lot of assumptions and generalizations but I think that it does sound like you guys really are on different pages. And sometimes you do have to just say to somebody, hey, it feels like we're in two completely separate worlds. And if we can't get on the same page, we might not be able to do things together. Like it just simply might not work. Yeah. I'd be like, agree with everything. So I'm not going to like repeat what you've said, but cut paste of what Jess said. And then I think it's also about kind of putting the hard word on as well. Okay. So you said that you've got some renovations planned, I would be saying to your partner, Hey, we're going to have to put a

hold on the renovations. Like you don't have any savings, you can't match it. So I guess like, we're just going to have to cancel those plans for now as a little bit of a kick up the butt, like, sorry, I know that you're spending a whole heap of money over here and that's fine. If it's not a priority, do you, do you just not want to do the renos? Like what's going on here? Because if you're saving aggressively and then you're seeing him spend large sums of money on other stuff sorry yeah that would annoy me as well like yeah that's the one element that I'm like it feels disrespectful yeah like if you and I are saving towards something together and then I see you going and spending on something else and it means that we have to sacrifice our shared goal sorry

that feels icky yeah um so I think it's about just putting the hard word on and being like do you not want to do this and then I'm sure it and I'm not saying that that's the best way but like I'm sure it will be a bit of a backtrack no no I do okay well you're not showing me that you do and like actions honestly speak a little bit louder than words. And like, I'm, you know, sick of telling you every single month to transfer to the joint account. So I'm not going to ask you, you need to put a reminder in your calendar or you need to find a way to do it. If you don't want to automate it, that's fine. Some people do genuinely want to manage their money, you know, by going in and being more hands-on, but like, I'm not your mom. So get it together because I shouldn't have to

remind you to transfer to the joint account you should be doing that yourself so whether that is not automating it but putting a reminder in your calendar that should be on you mate like I just feel like sometimes you need to have some hard conversations to make life in the long term a little bit easier yeah I'd love to know what he's spending like what are the large sums I feel like that's an important bit of context that we're missing because everything else you're oh well it could be tied back to the disparity in their income. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

God, I'm so curious to know what. It's so hard, especially if you're trying to move towards shared goals together. Like renovations tells me that you probably own a property together and like, yeah, that would be really rough. Do you have a juicy DM for us this week? Oh, my God, I do. Are you ready?

And it's about MLMs, so I can't wait. All right. Hello, She's On The Money. I'm in the middle of a family money dilemma and I need your advice. My brother's gotten really into this self-development program called Landmark. He's spent thousands already and swears it's changed his life. Now he's pushing the rest of us to join too. The course he wants me to do is $1,000 and he keeps offering to pay half to convince me.

But honestly, I've been doing some research online and it's giving MLM vibes hard, to be honest. My sister already signed up, even though I know she can't afford it. she told me she's feeling just too much pressure to say no to him. I feel like they're taking financial advantage of him and I want to help, but I also want him to stop pressuring me. I just don't know how to say something without making it worse or risking our relationship. That's crazy. I'll be honest, I don't really know much about what Landmark is. Do you know anything about that? So Jess, Landmark Worldwide is, oh, like they just get called Landmark more often. It's an American employee owned quote for-profit company that uses like self-development programs

as their sales tactics so they don't sell like a product like you know Monet they sell hair care and then you've got Arbonne and they do like skincare and stuff Landmark is the company behind what's called like Landmark Forum and it's described as having a lot of similarities to a multi-level marketing structure, though it's not officially classified as one. While Landmark relies heavily on like word of mouth marketing through its participants to like recruit new customers, it also emphasizes a really hard sell approach. And this reliance that this company has on referrals and recruitment coupled with what I would say or call like a super intense nature of like the program sales tactics has led lots of people to compare this to a multi-level marketing

business. So a lot of people online are saying, first of all, there's no doubt Landmark is not an MLM, but it also, you know, is quite a hard sell kind of situation because people are not making any money for their referrals, but they are being able to sell the product to you, if that makes sense. And it's a life coaching course is what you said? Kind of life coaching vibes course, get your shit together course. Like it definitely, from my perspective, preys on people when they are feeling a little bit flat or lost a little bit of direction and they're looking for, you know, someone to give them a hand. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's tough that it's your brother who's in that situation is trying to on sale it to you. I think that you

should just be able to say like no is a full sentence you know I absolutely agree they really to me should not be much more than that it sucks your sister's already signed up and done it like I get it I get that you want to support your family and friends when they're doing something and when they say they've got this fantastic thing maybe flipping it around a little bit and saying hey I actually don't have the money to do the course right now I feel like that but I'll pay for half Jess oh yeah I just I would just I it's hard because I would I just feel like look I'm just not interested it's just not for me thanks yeah I'm just done like I it's giving quasi Ponzi scheme vibes like it's just I'm not gonna say that to my brother at that point but I also think it is

I don't know if it cracks like a duck yeah looks like a duck maybe it's a duck yeah maybe maybe it's an MLM. Um, but yeah, I think that if sometimes I think honestly, kind of like what we were saying before, sometimes a bit of harsh truth is what people need. And so maybe turning around and saying, Hey, like you're making me really uncomfortable by trying to pressure me into this. If someone said that to me, I would feel truly so terrible, you know? Yeah. But you're a nice person. And I'm not saying that this person's brother is not a nice person, but like they are already worried about saying something that is going to ruin the relationship and like you know if I said to you hey Jess you're making me feel really pressured you'd be like um

what that's on you and then maybe we won't be friends anymore yeah if the relationship's that fragile though is it worth protecting like I know that it's family and I understand that that's a that's a really big and important thing but at the same time you can't put yourself at a detriment financially or emotionally for the sake of protecting them either. Yeah. I just think it is, it is so fair. And you said before, no is a full sentence. It is so fair to say, no, I'm not interested in this, but then I feel like you're getting the overwhelming sense to like educate your brother on this as well, because you're feeling like he's being financially taken advantage of. And I think that's where you might want to be able to flag it and say, oh, like I

really like, and maybe this is how I would do it. I looked into it. Oh my goodness. Did you see all the Reddit threads and stuff online? Like even the Wikipedia says that it is basically an MLM that takes advantage of people. Like, you know, what research did you do before you got involved? Like the whole point is to feel motivated. I get it. But like, what are you genuine, apart from like loving the content, what else are you getting out of it? Like, what are they getting out of it? And kind of going down that route, because you don't want to be like, you're being taken advantage of because like, I know what they're going to say. They're going to shut down. No, we're not. Yeah. Okay. Have you seen all this stuff online? And

hopefully that prompts them to maybe do a little bit more research or even come back to you and say, no. And you go, well, I actually did a heap more research and it says X, Y, and Z. And like, I think that could be a good opener because a lot of the time it's like, I get so many messages from people and they're beautiful, smart women. And they say, Victoria, I'm so embarrassed. I got out of an MLM I can't believe I did that that's so embarrassing it's not because you're not smart these platforms rely on smart people who don't know about their background they rely on smart people like you Jess who trust who are going to go oh my god that does sound good and I trust the person telling me so why would I take the time to research and deep dive they probably

haven't done it and don't understand the negative side of it. Because it's so easy to see the positive when everyone's so happy and they're like, course, incredible. The same thing is happening. I think I'm getting a lot of DMs recently about these property seminars that are happening. Eight grand. Crazy. And you get to walk away at the end of the weekend with one or two investment properties off the plan. Those people are making an absolute mint from taking advantage of you. If you want to get into investment properties, you can learn so much for free through my content, through lots of other podcasts content, from my books on property, from other people's books on property. And then you know what you can do, Jess? You can go talk

to a mortgage broker and be like, hey, what would this look like? What serviceability do I have? Because I promise they're not giving houses to people who can't afford them. They're giving houses to people who can be lulled into this false sense of security to then sell them off the planned properties that they're taking a massive clip of. Yeah. It actually kills me. It's crazy. What did everybody else say? Because I feel like we're kind of stuck in a hard spot. Yeah, we asked the community. So first question we said was, what would you do if you thought your sibling was being financially taken advantage of like this? 59% of you said, I'll just be giving them my opinion truthfully. 21% of you said, we're having a family intervention.

I kind of rate that, honestly, like a big banner, the whole shebang. Full family intervention. And then 18% of you said, try and plant the seed gently. And then 3% of you said, I'm going to say nothing. They're an adult. They can deal with it. I'm all for the family intervention. Could you film that and send that to us?

I would like to see that just for educational purposes. I feel like maybe if you're confronted with so many people that you'd love to all saying to you, hey, because one person you can kind of brush it off. is cool have you seen that show in the US called Intervention oh it's so good oh in my mind it would be powerful because it's like yeah like one person says oh I think like this isn't great oh it's just them in my head and intervention is so dramatic like they're like oh hey Jess do you want to come to my house for dinner it'll just be you and I and then you walk into my house and

it's full of all your family and friends and they're like sit down in the chair we're gonna tell you to get off the drugs and you're like oh my god I need another wine for this yeah that sounds like a lot. But also don't do it like that. But if you do, maybe film it and send it to me. I don't know. Anyway, we also asked the community, how would you handle the pressure they are putting on you to sign up? 89% of you said I'd be setting a firm boundary. 7% of you said I'd actually distance myself. 5% of you said I'm just changing the subject. And none of you, so 0%, but like in terms of our statistics, we had so many responses. So some people replied, but it wasn't enough to get to one percent of this group said say yes just to make it stop oh no don't do that

well thankfully it was a very very small amount of people so technically zero percent of people said that but a couple a couple still said that um eighty nine five and seven i don't know that the math on that is quite no that's 101 that's what instagram says right that's what our instagram responses said um so we're just gonna go with that yeah um 101 percent of you is definitely very valid and reliable. Yep. If you're writing a thesis or you're doing a PhD, this data is significant. Don't use Instagram polls for your PhD. We also went to the community and said, guys, what's your two cents? Tell us. First person said, careful, the intervention doesn't backfire. Had someone pull this on me and it still hurts. Oh, that's really sad that it didn't work

for them. No. Next person said, check the company financials. Who's getting paid? When? Where? Well, yeah, there's nothing that's going to make you feel like a shock of cold water. Exactly. The people at the top are getting millions and millions. And you're making $4 and you're still in $10,000 worth of debt. Wild. Next person said, send them the links to She's On The Money. I'm just here for VD's response on this one.

The people know you well. Oh, I just get a little bit mad. Someone said, it's giving NXIVM vibes. Some good films, books and podcasts on it might be really helpful for your brother. and then there's a three-parter so this three-parter and i'm not gonna out who they are but they are somebody who is very proactive in the like mlm community in terms of like exposing what's going on yeah so like i'm not saying it to like be able to identify them but i do take what they say they're educated yeah they're educated in this like they would know

so first that is three-parter so first comment says landmark is a cult as it uses lgats you have to set a firm boundary and distance yourself look up what lgats are their large group awareness trainings to understand how he's literally been brainwashed landmark investment never has an end date avoid distance yourself at all costs that's scary and the nexium vibes so nexium i don't know what NXIVM is. A cult in the US, very MLM, like lots of documentaries on it. Just type in NXIVM like documentary to Google. This is the stuff that I eat up, Jess. Like if you come to my house on Friday night, we're ordering pizza, but we're also watching an MLM or a cult documentary. Well, cause I feel almost like MLMs are like a soft cult, right? Like they kind of, I feel like

there's some processes and practices that are maybe mirrored. I think this is why I love the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives because the idea of like Mormonism gives to me cult vibes as well. I just, do you know what? I also need to remind you of the statistic or the piece of research that says the people that are drawn more to reality TV have a higher IQ at this point. Very important stuff, hard hitting there. But yeah, I think that it's especially knowing that additional bit of context from someone who obviously said is in the know, so to speak. yeah that makes me feel that perhaps they're right in that all you can do is provide them with the right information but it's really important that you don't get sucked down

into that too because they're using manipulation and psychological techniques and things to they're using it to take advantage of you full stop in the story which is really scary next person and i've just got two more for you said so next person said i had an ex in landmark and it was horrendous a really bad therapy version of an MLM. Wow. And there someone said, actually was in Landmark. So I've been there. I've done that. I lost thousands of dollars. If it doesn't ever feel right, just don't do it. Don't let other people convince you. I'm so glad you got out. That's really, that's great. It's chaos. And I think that so many times people are really embarrassed. They're like, I can't believe I did this. It must be because I'm so silly or I'm not very smart.

no no no you're smart that's why you kind of were more likely to buy into it because it could they make sense well and i particularly manipulate you use fact yeah quote and they particularly i think target the types of people they think will be susceptible right as well and i think that more often than not that someone who's really kind or really empathetic or someone who's searching for a way to contribute and make their life better and they're taking advantage of people who are trying to do good for themselves or for the world or for whatever and yeah they're really like ruining that and turning it into something negative and that's such a shame. It genuinely breaks my heart but I think that's probably a really good place to leave it. If you aren't

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