She's On The Money - I’ve Financially Outgrown My Friends. Do I Need To Leave The Chat?

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Be honest. Has money ever got in the way of a friendship? Sure. It’s nice when everyone you know has the same money values as you, but it’s far more likely that your earnings, spending habits, and beliefs are just as different as your birth charts!  This week on Friday Drinks, Bec and Jess answer your pressing questions around pausing investments to pay for a wedding, fast food preferences and what happens when your friends are in their spend-now-worry-later era.  While V’s away, we’re bringing you some cheeky Broke Tips plus your marvellous Money Wins of the week. Budgeting boundaries, financially outgrowing your friends, and what actually makes a fry a fry (when it’s really a chip), join us as we cover all the important topics. CURB YOUR SPENDING: Dopamine spending is real. If you’re looking for tips to help you cut back, look no further. CHECK OUT THE SOTM INVESTING HUB: Full of our best investing freebies, resources, courses and podcast episodes here. New here? Follow us on Instagram (@shesonthemoneyaus) for Q&As, bite-sized advice, daily money inspo... and relatable money memes that just get you.  Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements (queenacknowledgements.com) The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 4451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My name is Natasha Bamblett, I'm a proud First Nations woman, and I'm here to acknowledge country. Tii, gilinyan ganya, nianakaka yao yambina waka, nianakai nianbina yakarumja, duminyagumiga dumiga ithawakanidawamundamun imalan, mumubangada boma ininyalan waka, gaunan yakarumja, wutunadanar. Hello beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people, We thank, acknowledge and respect the Aboriginal people's land that we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land and respect all that you see. She's on the Money podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,

knowledge and resources for you to thrive. She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast that raises a toast to your finances. My name is Jess Rickey, and joining me on the Friday Drinks couch is the fabulous Bec Syed. Hi. Hello. Welcome back. You've tuned in for a special edition of Friday Drinks because Victoria's away, and we've been left to our own devices.

There might be a few detours, but we are definitely still here to celebrate you guys. Your promotions, your savings, those marketplace finds, I've read them all, and I'm sharing the best ones in my money wins. And then Bec, of course, is braced with all her best broke tips to see you through. as always we'll be answering your DMs and money dilemmas like when you might consider putting your investments on hold or what to do when you financially outgrow your friends. Juicy juicy awkward but it doesn't have to be some of us spend differently so if you have a particularly spicy money dilemma visit the Shiz and the Money website and send us a voice note we would love to hear

from you and I mean I don't want to promise anything we might just have the answers you're looking for. Oh, okay. We give good advice, I like to think. We do our best anyway. Yeah, well, and that's all you can do. We love a bit of recognition. We love a bit of ego boosting from time to time. Don't we all? And so I'm obviously talking about five-star reviews. So we have another one and this one comes from our wonderful listener named Layla. And before I get into it, we really do love it when you tell us what you think. So please share your She's In The Money review with us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, socials, or in our Facebook comments wherever really so this one comes from layla it says hi she's on the money i started

listening to the pod in early 2025 and i'm just writing to say thank you so so much for your incredible tips and advice i started listening at a point in my life where i was finally ready to put my future self first and i'm very glad i did in brackets with your help yesterday i paid off the last of my hex and i'm officially debt free for the first time since i was about 20 i finally paid off a credit card personal loan a car hex and some unexpected medical bills i now have an emergency fund that can last me an entire year i'm contributing the maximum fhss limit and recently started investing to have 1100 in shares she's in the money has been there every step of the way thank you five stars today and every day whoa leila that is huge that's amazing that's huge

It's, like, more than, like, what a lot of people can even do in a lifetime. So many things. It's like you're going down a list and you're just going tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Totally. Financially savvy queen. That is insane. Honestly, congratulations. That's great.

And FHSS is? First Home Super Saver. Oh, okay. Well, there you go. If you're listening and you didn't know what that was either, Layla, congratulations. That's amazing. Incredible. Thank you for sharing.

It is time for Question of the Week, the moment where you can ask us anything, anything at all about anything you like. And I'm genuinely curious about this one because I'm not sure what your answer is going to be. Okay. It came from Brooke who asks, what is your favorite fast food and your go-to order? Oh my God. I love this question. Okay. You go first if you have one ready. I do have one already. So I'm kind of torn. Anyone who knows me knows I love fried chicken. Oh, she loves fried chicken. I do. So I feel like people would maybe expect me to say KFC which there is a KFC quite close to where I live and it's very convenient but I think I'm actually going to say Guzman is my favorite oh my god I love Guzman

and they do a taco that has a chicken tender in it so it's kind of the best of both worlds I'm getting Mexican add my fried chicken all at once oh my god okay my go-to is I get two or three of the chicken tender tacos they're only mini tacos so it depends how hungry I am and then I do like of guac and chips to share because I love guac. And then if there's a big group, I'll also do the fries as well because they're also delicious. And obviously a giant glass of Pepsi Max. Are their fries like fries or are they like chips?

No, they do like a seasoned fry. Like a skinny fry. Oh, like a medium. That's my gripe. Anyway. You don't want to call it a fry? I don't think so because I always get excited that there's a fry coming, but it's like a fat chip.

Where's the point of, like, what's the cutoff where the chip is too obese to be a fry? That's a great question. Well, I shouldn't discriminate. No. I shouldn't discriminate. Don't be a hater. I mean, a fry's a fry. Potato is beautiful in all its forms.

It is. That's true. But at what point is it no longer a fry and it's a chip and then hash brown, et cetera? Anyway. I think a fry, in my head, a fry must be kind of square. so it's like little and square whereas a chip is like a wedge or like a a pub cut you know a bit wider yes yes okay and this is what people come to the friday episode the hard-hitting journalism on what makes a fry fry sorry everyone anyway i am curious about this but we can talk

about it off air now my go-to i don't have one specific takeaway order but if i was like thinking about my DoorDash, then my most recent obsession is fishbowl, which is really boring because it's like not very unhealthy. I'm sure it is in its own way. I like the miso salmon. I get a double salmon for protein. But usually if I'm just like, whatever, then it will be like a goat curry from, I don't have a specific Indian restaurant I go to. If anyone knows of an Indian restaurant that is not gristly, I don't want fatty bits. I don't want any like, I don't even want the chicken to have a hangy chicken on it. Do you know what I mean?

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I want it to be cut nicely without any bits. Anyway, if you know of any place in the world. Yes. No, see, now I have a gripe. Okay, tell me. I think by definition if something is fast food, it must have a drive-through.

Okay. So, see, I ignored a whole world of things that I love because I thought it's got to be fast food, like you've got to be able to be in the car. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Yes, I see what you're saying. I'm guessing your local Indian restaurant isn't a drive-thru option.

Nor is Fishbowl, as far as I know. No, that's so true. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Yeah, you're so right. I'll let it slide. It's fine. But if you were in a car and you were driving home, it's 3 o'clock in the morning, you're like,

well, I just need to eat something. Hungry Jack's. Okay. Double whopper with cheese and then also a storm, a flake storm with Oreo. You have been saying you love a storm. I love a storm. I think you may be one of the only people I ever have met

who thinks Hungry Jack's is their favourite fast food. Yeah. shockingly same i'm like guys it's so good it is so good that's crazy there you go well if you've got a pickle for us if you want us to be mulling over your questions relating to potato fast food or anything else at all head over to she's on the money facebook group or you can send your question of the week through to us via dm or you can pop it in the comments on spotify if you're listening i always love reading the comments on spotify absolutely and if you want us to not talk as long about your question and with your question, let us know too.

We'll try not to derail it. We'll try not to derail it. And Jess, I'm really actually in saying that I'm very excited to hear about your community money wins. I've got some goodies this week. Great. First one is from Courtney who said, money and hubby win. Our clothes dryer died and instead of shelling out 700 plus dollars for a new one, hubby got handy and diagnosed the issue with some help from the robots on YouTube and bought a replacement part for $45 and installed it himself. Wow. Saved themselves a casual $655. Oh my God. I just did that maths in my head, by the way. Are you impressed by that? I'm very

impressed. Quick maths. Next, I've got a money loss, but a life win from Sam who said, money loss, we got a rescue cat. He's cost us over $1,000 in the first two weeks, thanks to vet bills and then dry cleaning bills while he's still figuring out the cat litter. Money win, we had an emergency fund and could comfortably cover the bills our bank accounts are empty out but our hearts are fuller oh she of course did pay her pet tax like all good law-abiding citizens good good good oh love oh Ted looks very happy to be home wow yeah that's a very cute cat he's so cute also Sam it might be worth speaking to the place that you rescued him from because when we adopted Milo he also had some health stuff which turns out played out long term but the first initial stuff

that happened, they covered the vet bills for us because it was kind of something that not was their fault, but something they kind of should have shared with us, I guess. So it might be worth messaging them just to see if they can help out at all. That's a really good point. Next, I've got a money win from Emily who says, I got promoted at work. Congratulations. That's really exciting. Ned said, as a freelancer, I had income averaging instated, but at some point it disappeared from my tax returns. After chasing it up with my tax agency, I managed to get it backdated for about five years and I'm getting $4,000 back. Oh my God, amazing. And so that's going to go straight to super. Great. Which I think, good on you, putting it to use, not just going, I'm going

to buy something fun, which is probably what both of us would do. Oh yeah. Well done, Ned. Next, I've got one from Belinda who said, money win. I had to clean out of the shed, sold $70 worth of stuff that was just sitting there unused. This is your reminder, people, go through your spare rooms. I promise you somewhere there's something you can sell. And then lastly this week, I've got one for Imogen who said, happy money loss, paid for flights and deposit for our holiday to Vanuatu later this year.

Oh, great. Which I think like it's nice to also celebrate spending the money you've saved up. Yeah, I agree. Because sometimes, you know, you get so you save and you're saving for something and you go, but I don't want to spend it. I know. We don't need to feel shame. No, I know that feeling. Once you get there, you're like,

well, was it really? I know it's just like nice to see the bank account, but experience is nicer. Okay. Are you ready for some brick tips? Absolutely. I am. What have you got? Okay. So this first one comes from Jackie who recommended promo tics. And I do feel like that feels familiar. Maybe I've mentioned it before, but when I heard it, it felt like the first time listening. So maybe it's because they didn't explain it properly, but I have mentioned it before. So I wanted to mention it again. So Promotex is a free service providing complimentary tickets to music, comedy, theater, festivals, and sporting events with options for a $35 per year VIP membership. I'm not sure what you get in the VIP membership, but I assume it's like maybe like

first round tickets to things. But it's, I think it's for if tickets haven't sold out for a certain, let's say comedy show or something, then you might, you know, just be lucky and get yourself a free ticket. So downward promo ticks, I think it's amazing. And then the next one comes from my friend who, I don't know if it's morally not sound, but I think my friend said that she has other friends, a couple who go on Marketplace and if they see something they want, they're never low-balling, but they have a price in their mind. Let's say it's like $10 off the asking price. one of them will go and lowball heaps obviously be declined and then the next a few hours later will offer what they originally wanted to pay if that makes sense and it almost always works

they're trying to make the second offer look better yeah and they're not at all linked but even in saying that maybe your lowball offer would be like they'd be like yeah sure and so there's no losing really here. It's such a fine line. It's a fine line. Because I agree. I'm like, I mean, the worst they can say is no, but then as someone who's sold things on Facebook marketplace, I'm like, there's nothing more annoying than when something's listed, like it's worth a hundred dollars. I've listed it for $30. And someone's like, will you take five? Yeah. Probably not, though. Totally. Totally. So it probably is very annoying for the seller. But it is a clever tactics. They can't tell that you're related. Exactly. But I do recommend don't lowball too

much. Like the first one can be lowball. The second one, be fair. And then that's all. I just don't know. Anyway, do with that what you will. And you don't have to be partnered. You can be friends. You can have a colleague. Anyway. And then my one, obviously, this is also probably, I don't want to say illegal, but it's like, if you know someone who has a holiday house, I'm kind of thinking landlords, do your bit for the world and let people use your address for hard rubbish. Like, let's say you want to book a hard rubbish and you have used your address too many times. You use a holiday house or if you have used too many free HelloFresh boxes, use a holiday house. If you're not going to be there and you have friends who just have one house, maybe they're renting, maybe they own, let them use your address.

You know what I mean? I mean, I just know people who have done that before. And I guess it's not, don't do it without asking permission. But if you happen to be in a situation where maybe you've worked very hard, maybe you haven't, maybe you whatever, the middle, but you have this kind of like luxury, then, you know, share it around. The only person I know who has a second house is Victoria. So maybe catch me, I don't know if I'd schlep all my hard rubbish down there, but maybe I'd send a free box or something. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you just go collect it. That's free. It's groceries for the week. That's so true. That's very clever from you. Thank you. I like that one. Keep it going.

If you've got a broke tip that you want to share with us, please join the She's In The Money Facebook group and share it on Bec's thread that goes up every week. We're about to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll be unpacking this week's money dilemma about soon-to-be newlyweds and whether they should put their investments on hold to fund their wedding. Welcome back, everyone. Let's take a listen to this week's money dilemma. Hi there.

Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's On The Money team is here to help. Every week, we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording and you might just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to this week's money dilemma. Hi, She's On The Money. I have a money dilemma. My partner and I are getting married in August. Yay! However, we are a little bit short for the wedding in terms of cash flow. We estimate we'll be about $5,000 short at this stage. We do have a $20,000 savings fund and we also put about $1,000

a month into investments. My question is, should we dip into the savings or should we stop investing for the next four to five months to pay for the wedding. Thanks. What do you think, Bec? I think stop investing, personally. Maybe I'm, like, ignorant, but I don't understand the need to spend so much on a day. I understand it's a very big, important day.

I totally get that. But I just think if you can cut costs, I know that that's not what your question is, that's not what you're asking us, then that's also where my head's going. but I would say stop investing I don't think you should dip into your savings I think personally because that's I'm assuming there for your like big emergencies and things like that and whatever else your money is in there for but yeah I would say like pause future investments and then just

put it all into this bucket do you know what I mean yeah but yeah I wouldn't be pulling anything out savings personally yeah do you think I think they probably can't cut costs generally speaking when you book stuff for a wedding, you book it really far in advance. So it's like, I'm guessing that they've booked it all in, they've signed all their contracts with their vendors and there's the $5,000 shortfall is what she's talking about. I would be inclined to maybe split the difference personally. Again, obviously this isn't financial advice. I think that when you stop investing, it would be about five months that they'd be out of the market. There's just the opportunity cost. I think particularly at the moment, because there is a lot of market volatility,

It does, at least in the things that I'm investing in, it seems like there's been dips, which are good opportunities to buy. And if you stop investing for that five-month period, potentially you miss out on that. When they've said they've got savings, I'm assuming it's not your emergency fund. Because if it was, I'm guessing you would have referred to it as your emergency fund. I'm assuming it's savings that you've got sitting there for maybe the honeymoon or something that you're just saving and working your way towards. you know me I'm risk averse I think I would split the difference purely because that means I can still put a little bit of money into the market still potentially take you know advantage of

those dips and then I only have to pull half the amount out of my savings yeah but also the flip side I guess of what you were suggesting is could you make extra money would be the first thing that I would actually personally look at can you pick up a little bit of work on airtasker can you sell some stuff around the house, even if it's not enough to cover the full $5,000, if it means that you can take less out of your savings or top your savings up more quickly, I think that also would be very advantageous. But it just depends on you and what your goals are. If that savings is your emergency fund, then I agree, I probably would be less inclined to pull out of it. But it all depends on what's important to you and how much you want to have invested and what you are investing

in as well. So hard to say, but I think, yeah, I would be trying to split the difference and then make it up as quickly as I could. Yeah. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Split the difference. All right. Be honest. Have your spending habits ever gotten in the way of a friendship? Oh, I'm excited for this. If they have, then this week's DM is for you. Hi, She's On The Money team. I think I've accidentally outgrown my friends financially, and I don't know how to handle it. I've worked really hard over the last few years to get on top of my money. I've paid off debt, built savings, and I'm finally in a position where I can afford the things that I used to stress about. But my friends are still very much in

their spend now, deal with it later era, and it's starting to feel uncomfortable. They're constantly suggesting expensive dinners, weekends away, festivals, and I either feel pressured to say yes or awkward saying no. I don't want to lose my friendships, but I also don't want to keep blowing my budget to keep up how do you navigate this without things getting weird at the start of that i was kind of like that's fine but then i understand now the social pressure i think yeah go out and i think like separate to this maybe think about like do you love your friends do you have a history of your friends do you all equally like respect each other and i suppose like champion each other and things like that like do you think that they would

be all on board. If you were like, well, I'll come with you guys, but I'm not going to spend money. And they're just like, Hey, we're going to support you, whatever you want to do. They might not have to change their lives and their plans, but they will at the very least not be like, that's weird. Why aren't you like joining us? If you feel like that is the case, just know that like, no matter what group of friends you're in, you hang out. And so I think that unfortunately it's going to be kind of unavoidable to go out and do things unless you don't want to go out and do things. And that's totally fine as well. I get the sense you want to, but you want to do that in like the most cost effective way maybe. But yeah, I would just be thinking about like the people

you're surrounded by, are they the type of people that would support your decisions to not spend money? And if they are, then I think that the friendships you've built, the people that you surround yourself with, if they're good people and they're good friends, that's more important. And you can, like, figure out all the other stuff along the way. But spending money in a friend group is just, like, it's going to happen. Even if you have the most financially savvy friends in the world, you're going to spend money somehow because you hang out. That's what friends do. But I understand that your dilemma is that they're kind of doing that all the time.

I would just be doing me and also hanging out with them. But just, like, explaining why I'm not spending money. Yeah. I think a friend is not going to want to punish you for wanting something different. You don't have to do all the same things that your friends are doing. I think especially in larger groups of friends, it's really normal for people to be in different phases of their life. For me, I think a lot of my friends have kids and that puts them in a very different life stage. And I agree it can sometimes be really hard to reconcile the fact that the life you're living or the life you want to live might not line up with exactly where they're at.

And that is totally okay because everybody's on their own journey. I think you kind of have two options. One is to expand your circle. I think it is important to have people who have similar goals or can match your energy in the same way that your friends are entitled to want to go out to expensive dinners or drinks or whatever it is that they're doing. You are also entitled to want to do more frugal things, do picnics in the park or watch TV at home or board games night.

If your existing group of friends don't want to do that, that's not where they're at, that's okay. But it might be nice for you to expand your circle to include people who are enjoying those same sorts of activities as you. It's not a bad thing, I think, to make new friends, meet new people, feel supported in the journey that you're on. I do think it's important to talk to them. I think you're very right. It might just be that they haven't clocked that that's where you're at. And I also think it's important to look at yourself a little bit as well. Are you feeling pressured because they are putting the pressure on you and you know they say we all want to go to dinner and you say oh guys like maybe not this week and they go no you've got to come

please come it won't be the same without you or are you experiencing FOMO because they go okay that's cool no worries and the plans proceed without you because I think a lot of us do really struggle with feeling like we're missing out when we're not doing the things that the people around are. Again, I think that it's not about what they're doing. Like they are allowed to live their life and spend their money in whatever way they would like. It's not about them needing to change. It's about you needing to feel comfortable sticking to the path that you want to set for yourself. And whether that is by expanding your circle and finding more people to do that with, or whether that is by accepting the fact that sometimes there are going to be things that you

can't participate in, it's really up to you to decide. And, you know, we don't know the semantics of what that looks like for you. But yeah, I think like it's never a bad thing to find new friends, to meet new people and also to be really confident in the decisions that you're making. I think absolutely talk to your friends. There's a very good chance that they haven't clocked it, especially if you used to all do those things together and you've recently gone through this financial journey, they might not realize that when you say, oh guys, I'm going to skip it this week, what you're actually trying to say is, I want to prioritize my financial goals. Like sometimes you do just need to have a very frank conversation and they'll maybe be like, oh my

God, totally. We had no idea. You know, maybe they can start a separate group chat that you're not in. So you're not constantly seeing these things and feeling left out or feeling pressured to go. Not everything has to be for everyone. That's, you guys know, that's one of my favorite sayings. And so, you know, maybe you dip in and out and participate in some things. And sometimes they come and do the things that you want to do. And there's a nice happy ground for everybody. Yes, absolutely. And imagine them being like, oh, this person doesn't want to come out with us anymore, but they don't know the reasons why. Maybe they do, but communication is key. Communication is key. We did pop the DM up on our Instagram stories, if you ever want to

participate in these and ask a couple of questions. Firstly, we said, have you ever felt pressure to keep up financially with friends? 68% of people said yes, and 32% of people said no. Then we said, what matters more to you, shared values or shared lifestyle? 89% of people said shared values and 11% of you said shared lifestyle. Okay. I would argue there's a middle ground. Yeah. Like I think that you can share values and also lifestyle. Yes. Or a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. Then we said, is it okay to splurge occasionally for the sake of connection? 90% of you said yes and only 10% said no. Okay. And I think that really depends on, you know, where you're at with your goals. And then of course, as always, we said, please tell us your two cents. The first

person said, when I feel financial pressure, I offer up alternative ideas to catch up instead, like a picnic or happy hours at bars, things that are more affordable, which I think is great. Somebody else said, real friends will understand you saying no. And I agree, but I do think it's sometimes important to give them the context because if they don't understand where it's coming from, they can't support you in that. Somebody else said, set yourself an honest budget and let them know that you can't do the pricey things once it's been spent. Suggest low budget activities, day trips to the beach, et cetera, rather than doing something expensive. Someone else said, on the flip side, you'll regret missing the experiences. Time together with the people you

love is far more precious than money. That's true. That's a very good point. But you don't have to do expensive things to spend time with people, I do think. Somebody else said, look for balance, splurge on the celebrations, but host the everyday catch-ups at home. Lots of people are saying communication. Somebody else has said, pick and choose, join them for one splurge a month and build it into your budget, which I think is a really good way to do it. And then somebody else has said, my friends and I have reached a good balance. We splurge on nice dinners for each person's birthday and the rest of the time we try to cook at home. Someone else has said, Friends of friends, if they cause you to spend money outside of your budget, they should

be supporting your goals instead, which I agree with. But again, I think that also your goals don't have to compromise the way that they live their life. Yeah, yeah. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I do. Somebody else has said friendships go through many different phases. Maybe she should be suggesting doing activities.

I think the general consensus is you need to suggest alternatives. Lots and lots of people are suggesting all different kinds of fun things. Someone has said don't forget to also have fun. Do you want to do the stuff that they're suggesting or are you genuinely not interested, which I think is a good point. That's a good point. Is it something that you care about and would be happy to spend on or is it, again, just that sense of FOMO where you're like, oh, everyone else is going and I don't want to

miss out and I'm going to compromise myself financially to do it. The last one that I think is a good place to finish on for this week is live your life for you and not for others. Oh, gorgeous. Which I think is a beautiful summary. Don't punish your friends. you know they can do what they want but also it's important to live a life that feels aligned with what you want and your goals and your dreams and all those beautiful things beautifully well said

thank you so much thank you guys so much for joining us this week i hope it wasn't too crazy we brought it back around from the potato shaming yeah i think we're really on track after that if you guys aren't a part of the community already we would love for you to join us on facebook on instagram we're all over the place sharing resources your questions we love communicating with you guys we'll link everything you need down below in the show notes and we hope you have a beautiful weekend bye guys bye the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision if you do

choose to buy a financial product read the pds tmd and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of MoneySherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289.