She's On The Money - Let's talk about money and your mental health

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

This week we tackled a big one: mental health and money. We all know money is frequently listed at the top of the typical Aussie’s list of biggest stressors, so why exactly is this the case and what tools can we use to combat it? Plus, we hear from a money diarist whose toxic housemate left her in stacks of debt and we dissect a money question on how to stay positive when you’re in the midst of a career rut. If you’re yet to have checked out Victoria’s amazing chats with Psychologist Breanna Sada on anxiety and self-care, you can watch them here! We do discuss mental health at length in this episode and if you found any topics we covered triggering, please look after yourself by utilising the following amazing services: Beyond Blue: 1300 22 4636Headspace: 1800 650 890National Debt Helpline: 1800 007 007SANE Australia: 1800 18 7263 Do you love the podcast sick and want more SOTM? We thought you may. Join our Facebook page to share your money wins and money confessions, follow us on Insta for daily inspo to keep you on track and absolutely subscribe to our newsletter, the written recap of the pod’s key takeaways, including some bonus bits you won’t want to miss. Finally, if you’re in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we’ve got you sorted – simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast!  Your hosts are Georgia King and Victoria Devine. The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Georgia King. I'm a copywriter and journalism student with lots left to learn when it comes to money. Thankfully, as always, here to help us all out is Melbourne-based financial advisor, Victoria Devine. Hello, remotely, Georgia King. Hello, Devo.

Oh, I just called you Devo. Sorry about that. Now, today- That's okay. No problems. Shout out to my little sister, who is the real Devo here. They look the same. Today on the show, we are going to be tackling a huge topic that we think is really important

that we had a chat about, and that is mental health and money. Given the undeniable garbage fire that has been 2020, we think there's probably never been a more necessary moment than right now, really, to address the financial struggle that many of us are feeling, as well as the mental struggles that come along with that. Plus, we'll be helping answer a corker of a money question from someone who is feeling a little stuck in an unemployed rut, and we'll hear from a money diarist whose horrible housemate left her in lots of debt. Before we do get there, though, it would be rude not to chat about our money wins and

confessions from the week. Victoria, what have you got for me? That would be absolutely rude of us, but do you know what's hilarious before I jump into that? the fact that you called 2020 an undeniable garbage fire I kind of loved that right I don't think anyone could just disagree with that disagree with that disagree with that no no I will not disagree with that but what I loved was that I haven't heard anyone call it an undeniable garbage fire because that's absolutely what it is I have however heard a lot of corporate emails going

around at the moment and they all start with hello Victoria I hope you're well during these unprecedented times. I knew you would say that. Yeah, because it's on everything. I'm so sick of the words. So let's just change it. Businesses need to be pivoting. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we're pivoting on like, just, you know what? Get in the bin because it's a garbage fire. Exactly. Now talk to me about your money wins. All right. So I, yeah, thank you. Sorry. This is very strange to be recording remotely, but do you know what? I'm here for it. Georgia I have a money win this week and it is probably not one that you would expect but it's one that we all should care about and that is sunscreen. So I am definitely using my one hour

of freedom every single day to go on a walk and I always wear 50 SPF sunscreen. The thing is I have super sensitive skin and I have tried so many sunscreens. I cannot begin to tell you how many sunscreens i have tried i have been buying left right and center sunscreens for the last few years and for me i have found the og and it is 12 at chemist warehouse so this is absolutely not sponsored although if the cancer council sunscreen face day wear moisturizer matte which is the one i'm obsessed with at the moment it's invisible has no color to it sits under my makeup perfectly sits by itself perfectly, super moisturizing. Like I think I'm going to become some kind of skincare blogger. So here for this, but I'm loving this sunscreen at the moment. And I think that

money win at being $12 and more recently, I think I got it for 50% off during a sale. Stop that. I know. Okay. Mine's nice and quick this week. It was going to be a confession. I paid my phone bill late. So I was waiting for that late fee. Georgia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then my uh my phone bill for this month comes around no late fee attached guys so that's a win that's that's a win but like also georgia king you're a part of the she's on the money team what are you doing i know i feel like i shouldn't be the co-host of this podcast like i'm awful with no i love you you are here for a reason and that reason is you don't pay phone bills on time and i feel like that's super relatable we've all been there i only pay my phone bill on time

because it's direct debited let's be honest and that's what I need to do so you know we'll get there that can be my goal for this week anyway I love it move along and have a little look at the Facebook community Victoria did any posts stick out to you this week yes it did and I called dibs on this post very early on when we were planning this episode so this one is from our friend Josie and she said money slash life win I always like it when people make big calls like that. But reading her text, absolute life win, she said, my partner and I have always wanted a Groodle puppy. But as we're going through IVF, it's never been an option as they sell for around $7,000 each. And dogs can be so expensive, Georgia. Insanity. She said, well, my partner found this

nine-month-old Groodle needing to be rehomed for family reasons. And my partner bought her for me to help me get through the mental journey of IVF. We already have a golden retriever, so she's the perfect fit for our family. We are also happy. Plus we're keeping in contact with the original owners so they can watch her grow up. How sweet is that? So sweet. And it's like the cutest dog I've ever seen. She's so sweet. She's like cuddled up in a bed and oh my heart. I love dogs. I just love animals in general. And Josie, good luck for your IVF journey. That is such a big thing to go through. And I'm so glad that you have a new friend to go through it with. Georgia, have you got a money win from the community to share with us this week? I do. I love this one. So this one's

from Niyook and she was the lovely lady who posted about the herbs and spices. So you guys would know if you buy your herbs at, you know, Woolies or Coles, it's probably like two bucks. So it's pretty cheap, two bucks, $2.50. But instead of buying new herbs on her grocery haul, she went to a bulk food store and just refilled the herbs that she needed into her little containers and it costs so she's got 32 cents for paprika instead of $2.50 mixed herbs for 18 cents instead of $2.50 24 cents of basil powder instead of $2.50 so you know it's a small win but it's amazing it's better for the environment it's ticking all of those boxes I love that I thought that was really cool I love that that's good for our back pocket and also good for the environment and refilling stuff

is so satisfactionary is that a word i'm just making up words on this podcast today it is so satisfying and do you know what that means that you can just like get matching jars along the way and just like have a really nice looking pantry i'm here for it just refill you are here for that absolutely love a good money win about food yeah very very wholesome wins this week i'm into it dogs and snacks my favorite kind of wins exactly uh should we move on to the main chat for today Of course we could. I'm very excited about this one because I think it's going to be so impactful and so powerful and so relevant right now for everybody. Let's go. All right. So today we're going to be delving into the topic of mental health and money.

Now, one of the key reasons we wanted to address this topic today was that sometimes it can be really hard to talk about mental health and even admit to yourself, let alone others, that you may be struggling. So obviously the pandemic has caused complete devastation right around the globe from a health perspective and we've seen close to 1 million people lose their lives. So today we really wanted to start out this chat by acknowledging that and by sending our love to the families and friends impacted directly by the virus. The main intention of today's show though is to shed a little light on the subtle impact COVID has on our mental health, not just in regards to people who have contracted the virus and lost

loved ones, but also for those who have lost their jobs or who have taken a significant financial hit as we know how strongly mental health is linked with our financial well-being. Also today, we want to have a conversation for those whose lives may not have changed as drastically as others, but who are maybe still feeling that sense of anxiety or stress about the state of things, and who also might be feeling a little bit guilty about reacting that way. Spoilers, you definitely shouldn't be feeling guilty, which we'll talk about a little later on.

So Victoria, start us off before we really get into it. Can you talk to me a little bit about what this year's been like for you? Do you know what, Georgia? I think you summed it up really well before when you called this year a garbage fire and I feel like that's potentially the best example of what it has been like for me you know what that might be a little bit dramatic I do have to acknowledge that I have been quite lucky I am still employed I am still in a situation where I'm able to continue on my podcast and I get to work with you remotely and things have changed or pivoted Georgia but they you know they aren't the worst

But I think that when you said subtle impact of COVID on our mental health, I kind of was thinking, is it actually subtle or is it really serious? Because for me, I know my mental health is suffering. I know I'm putting a lot of effort and energy into trying to make sure that my mental health is stable and that I am OK. But I think that all of us, let's be honest, whether you've still got your job or not, whether you've been financially impacted or not, you're feeling a little bit flat and deflated. especially if you are living like you and I Georgia down here in Melbourne where we're in stage four lockdown so for me this episode couldn't have been better timed I feel like more recently everyone's kind of gotten over zoom it's like everyone has a bit of zoom fatigue so we're not catching up with people speaking to people in our community every single day

about how they're living alone and they're just struggling with the isolation and I just feel like it's been hard for me but I think it's been arguably a lot harder for other people and I just want to start talking about this because mental health is so important and mental health is something that you know impacts us all and if you think mental health hasn't impacted you I think that maybe you're not looking at it from the right lens because we all have mental health and I think that you know just pointing out here mental health and mental illness are two different things we all have mental health and we all have to look after it in exactly the same way that we look after our physical health. So for me, it's been a little bit up and down. It's been a little

bit crazy work-wise. Lots of stuff has happened. There's been some incredibly exciting things. There's also, for me, been a fair few lows, but that's totally okay. But for me, I think it's more around, you know, really recognizing that I'm in quite a lucky position. And I think before we go on any further, I really want to mention our friends in our community, our healthcare workers and all the other essential workers who are out there risking, literally risking their own safety each day for us. And I know that they would be suffering from a level of physical and mental exhaustion. So for me, I just want to really send out my love to them and just let them know that we're thinking of them. And we are so grateful that you're doing this. It's because

of you guys that we are getting through it. So that's where I'm at Georgia King. And I know that's a little bit ranty but that's not uncommon for me to be ranty on this podcast but before I let you ask your next question which I can see you jumping in to try and ask I just wanted to quickly disclaim this chat by saying that you know neither of us are psychologists yes we're talking about mental health because it is something that is really relevant to us and it is really relevant to our community but we are not psychologists and we are not going to pretend to be if you are having a particularly tough time at the moment we've linked a number of different resources in the show notes for you to utilize and we'll be talking about some of them further along in this chat as

well but to quickly plug one of our own products georgia kink it's not even a product it's just something that i'm getting up to in iso i have got registered psychologist and my friend brianna sada on webinars with us more recently and we have been running every thursday night at 8 p.m So there'll be one tomorrow if you're actually listening to this podcast on a Wednesday. Every Thursday night at 8pm, we're doing a self-care session, like a little psych session with a psychologist. This coming week, we are going to be talking about mindset and changing your mindset during a really stressful time.

Last week, we talked about anxiety and the week before we talked about self-care and what that actually means. And if you missed any of those, you can find them on our YouTube so you can watch them back or have a little bit of a listen. but those are resources that I think are really powerful because we've got an actual psychologist who has come in and giving us advice on how to get through this. And George, the webinars are just a really nice session. I'm actually having a glass of wine every time we do one of these webinars. Sitting down, we've got a live chat going on and we're answering questions from the

community about these topics and just having an hour where we forget that COVID is a thing just to talk about us and you and your mental wellbeing. So that's just a little plug. Those things aren't sponsored. They are just, you know, the She's On The Money community coming together to share. Brianna is donating her time and I think it is so generous of her to do so. And so I just wanted to say right here that I am so grateful for her for, you know, giving us that grace. And I think that, you know, it's impacted a lot of people positively. So if you want to hang out with us tomorrow, there is a link in our show notes so that you can join us. But Georgia King, let's keep going with the podcast. That is enough for me. No, I loved it. I should add as well there

that all of our self-care sessions are free to get involved with. So definitely join us. Yes, absolutely. That is a really great point. They aren't going to cost you anything except your time. And essentially I want that to be an investment in your own self-care. So that is why we are doing it. If we can do anything to impact mental health positively and getting advice from experts to me is essential. Like I don't want to sit here and pretend that we are experts and that's why we are having this conversation today. So moving on V, why do you think it has been such a hard year for so many of us beyond the obvious fears of just our own health and safety and that of our loved ones? You know what Georgia, obviously we're in the middle of a pandemic which is

something so new to all of us. We've not experienced this before and because of that our routines have been completely thrown out. We're working from home, we can't go to the gym, we can't see our friends and for so many people including me this has actually had huge impacts as those routines were such big parts of keeping us all sane to me the smallest pleasures which we were so lucky to get to enjoy like travel or going out for meals or catching up with people who make us happy it feels like they've all been stripped away and that is a massive change for us to be coping with and to me I feel like it has only been now that I've really realized how social I actually am I've always known that I'm incredibly introverted and I love time on my own I'm someone who does

not get my energy from being around other people like I love being around other people I love contributing but I'm very much an online kind of contributor which is probably no surprise as to why I started a Facebook group but I do love my own time and you know going on walks by myself and so when we went into the first stage of ISO I was kind of like you know what this is going to be not too bad. I'm going to be fine. But I didn't realize how much I'd miss my friends or even just the social interaction of going into my office every day and seeing my team and just seeing what they were up to. Humans are by nature social creatures. So to be confined and kept away from the people who actually bring us up and support us is a huge part of this sense of sadness and

angst that many of us are feeling. So for me, I think that it is incredibly important to just point that out. Like even if you are single and living at home and you've been on your own for ages, even stuff like the social interaction of jumping on the train every day to go to work and just like the routine associated with that, like we miss those things because they are what normalize us. So last week, Georgia, I had a webinar with Brianna and we were talking specifically about anxiety. And she said that our anxiety response has been triggered by the pandemic because our health is under threat as is the health of our loved ones and this underlying anxiety can actually place massive strain on our work and relationships and it absolutely makes

sense that we'd be all feeling flat or anxious at this point in time and as Brianna explained in the webinar we are traipsing completely new territory and we can't underestimate what actually living through a pandemic means. Life is not now what it used to be before so accordingly we need to be adjusting our expectations. We need to be kind to ourselves and realign our goals to fit with what is actually achievable for us in this moment. Because even people like me, I'm looking at 2020 and going, oh, I should have done so much more, or I should be in a different position, or I should have finished this project or that project. And Brianna said something really interesting that really stuck with me last week. And that was, we need to change our language from

I should have to I would like to but I'm not and I think that if we can change our mentality from I should to I would like to it makes sense like I should be working on this project it's like I would like to be working on this project but I'm not and I think that that is okay like it is okay to have things that have changed and I think that we need to just understand that you know this time is completely quote unprecedented but we need to keep in mind that this time is not typical and we can't be expected to operate at the same level we were operating at or achieve what we were at the same rate either and I know that this all sounds really ranty again because I feel like this is just like let's change it from she's on the money to Victoria's rant fest but for me I think

it's really important to remember that right now is a really interesting time to be having this conversation because we are now six months into this thing like this isn't the one month thing I remember Georgia when you know I think you were in my office way back in like February or March I can't even remember it feels like forever ago and we were talking about oh imagine if they put our city into lockdown like Italy like I remember having this conversation and I because I am a business owner had to work out what that meant for my team and work out what that meant for everybody in my office and we made the decision to start working from home a little bit earlier than most businesses did because we had the ability to do that so we did and I genuinely had this belief

that it would be two or three weeks like I was just like yeah in a couple of weeks we'll be back it'll be fine just work from home for now and it is now September and we are now six months in and the novelty of lockdown has absolutely worn off there is absolutely no novelty of it people are over it and our spirits are waning. So hopefully today we can look at some tools that will help keep us buoyant. I think another point just to jump in there as well, V, is that Brianna mentioned that the fatigue that we're all feeling extends far beyond just COVID. In Australia, we've been doing it tough since summer. Like we had the bushfires. That was what we were switching on and watching on the news every night. We were dealing with that horror, which has now

extended into this whole garbage fire of a year so I think just kind of understanding that it completely makes sense that we're feeling this way if you're feeling extra flat like it's it's very normal I don't know does that make sense no it is so normal to be feeling overwhelmed it is so normal to have an underlying level of anxiety at this point and I think that that's what I think we're missing I think that too many people are saying too many things about oh no like I'm fine like I get that maybe you're saying that but like have a think about what that actually means for you and I know that social media and I say this all the time and it sounds quite hypocritical because most of our business and community is on social media but social media at the moment can

be such a negative place we are seeing influencers post their new Prada bags and then we're also seeing all of these entrepreneurs post these motivational quotes that are like you know if you don't come out of this pandemic with a new skill or a new ability you have used your time wrong and I just think that that's so backwards and just so not what we need at the moment like we are trying to survive not thrive and I need you to remember that because I think we're putting too much pressure on ourselves and you know this has now become just a conversation I guess between you and I but last week when we were doing the webinar I had a question from one of our like live chat people and she said I'm feeling really down about the fact that my partner's out of work

and I am you know a breadwinner now but I have a low income and at the end of every single month I have no money left and I just said like girl you are doing amazing like how good is that that you still have money coming in to be able to support your family like your savings right now should not be your priority and I know coming from me it feels very strange to be giving this advice but it is true I never thought that the biggest pieces of advice that I as a financial advisor would give you guys is you know reach out and see if there's any government assistance you know stop putting pressure on yourself to save like this is just the year that happened like we can achieve everything we just need to put a halt to this and stop putting pressure on

ourselves to achieve during a time when we should just be surviving I thought both you and Brianna V had so many brilliant tips on keeping our mental states as healthy as possible so I thought I might recap some of those here for you if you're interested and you can jump in at any time if I know that's okay I think this will be really powerful as well because we did have a number of really good tips let me let me know what your summary is come on let's go so first one just remembering that your experience is valid which is what we were saying before so just because someone else might be having a worse time than you it doesn't mean it doesn't devalue what's happening for you right now everything's relative so it's okay to feel the way you're feeling that

was my first one love that maintaining a routine which you mentioned above as well v where possible because they're so important i know for personality types like mine writing lists um keeping busy but just having a structure in your day just helps you get through it i think and it helps you feel like you're achieving and accomplishing and ticking things off the list which kind of helps propel you forward 100 at least i found that yeah no 100 and i think it's really important that even if you're not employed right now having a list even just like okay i'm gonna get up i'm gonna make my bed i'm gonna like you know clean the bathroom i'm gonna go for a walk and then i'm gonna make like even stuff like that helps you keep a routine and having a list makes you feel

structured and structure is something that humans thrive on. So if you're having a bit of a hard time, write this down, even write down that you want to drink some extra, you know, glasses of water, like write down some goals for the day that are about self-care. Like I'm going to take five minutes to just sit by myself and have a think, or I'm going to drink some extra water, or I'm going to go for a walk with the dog, like write these intentions down. Because if you write your intentions down, you are more likely to achieve them. The next one was keeping a gratitude journal, which is so not my style at all. But Brianna mentioned that gratefulness is a big thing, separating happy and unhappy people. And I know you mentioned a few episodes ago,

that you do have a gratitude journal and that you do make it a daily practice of writing down what you're grateful for. So I think that's one of the things that I'm going to start doing to keep pepped up. Absolutely. And do you know what? I used to think this was the lamest thing in the entire world. I was like, I'm not keeping a journal, no. But I feel like this gratitude journal has really helped ground me and I keep trying to think of really creative things to put in my gratitude journal but I'm often coming back to the basics I'm like I'm grateful for my shoes on the money community I'm grateful for my family I'm grateful for my breakfast like they don't have to be big things they don't have to be massive but I really like

pointing out to myself every single day the small things because the small things are really the big things at the end of the day like they're the things that matter to me so yeah what else is on the list, Georgia? So the last one, I mean, I could speak for ages because it was such a powerful hour. It was the idea of starting from the inside out rather than from the outside in. So basically, Brianna was just saying that if you focus on what is around you immediately and what you can control rather than focusing on the overwhelming stuff, like focusing on the death toll, focusing on the financial impact that this is going to have on our world, like just focus on what you can control and you'll feel much more I guess less stressed more calm less emotional I

don't know I don't know if I'm articulating that properly but Brianna said it perfectly but I guess it's just reducing that sense of overwhelm I yeah I really took a lot away from that little comment there yeah and I'm going to put the pdf or a link to the pdf that she had because she had a really great demonstration that she shared with us and it was just like this image that kind of was just about you know starting with the things you can control and there were this I can't even remember they were like the circles of control and so I will link that below so you guys can see it because it was actually quite powerful and I know a lot of people have been asking for it as well. So obviously we are a money podcast so inevitably you know we're

going to have to be talking about the financial stress of 2020. The financial impact of this year has been immense on Australians. I did some research. It's 1.3 million people who lost their jobs this year. And then that's not even counting all of the people that lost hours, lost shifts, or saw their salary decrease to some extent. So I was wanting to ask you, Victoria,

what some of the techniques you'd advise for someone who's really struggling with money this year. And I think that goes back to what we were talking about before. I think that's my number one tip. Stop putting pressure on yourself. Stop trying to achieve these massive savings goals if you've got them for yourself if right now they're not achievable and be kind to yourself

honestly like you are doing a damn good job and you need to remember that and I think that right now because it has been so long like Georgia it's been six months if it was a couple of weeks I think all of us could have brushed it off but now it feels like half the year's been taken it's August it's going to feel like December in absolutely no time and I know that this isn't going anywhere soon so just take the pressure off yourself if you are feeling overwhelmed transformed financially, or if you've got debt, I think the number one thing for me would be to seek help. So there are a number of debt hotlines. We've got resources in the show notes this week. If you have a plan and get your head out of the sand, you're going to be feeling so

much better about this. So prioritize making a plan to get out of that debt with the situation we're in now. Stop adhering to your old circumstances, and that's going to help you go a really long way to just helping feel mentally and financially lighter. The second, Jojo is going to be one of my favorites. Get your budget and cash flow in order. I can't tell you how many times I jump up and down about this so that you understand what's happening with your money so you can make it work for you. If you need to do a new budget because your budget has changed, that is cool. Just get it done. I think it's really important. And also if you're really struggling with that, we do have our budget and cash flow course coming out this month, Georgia, which will

be so, so fun. The next one is cut back where you can. We spoke about this a lot on the budgeting episode a couple of weeks back so listen to that but just prioritize your spending look at how you can reduce your expenses right now and where you can be saving some extra dollars this is going to help you save more and faster also keep in mind that the australian government is providing additional medicare subsidies for psychological therapy sessions i didn't know this learnt this in the webinar again like these webinars honestly should be sponsored given how much i'm jumping up and down about them. But honestly, guys, it's just me in a wine with Brianna, our psychology friend on a Thursday night. But this is through the mental health care plan. So if you need to speak

with someone, but you're worried about the cost, you can make an appointment with your GP. And because everyone's doing telehealth at the moment, you can Google a telehealth practitioner that does bulk billing and ask your GP for a bulk billed psychologist. This is going to mean that, you know, your out of pockets will be covered and discuss arranging a mental health care plan with them if you need it. Honestly, I can't speak highly enough of just putting your hand up and reaching out for some help. It will be the best thing you've done all year, honestly. I think it was a couple of weeks ago, Bea, we noted that about 59% of Australians say their current financial situation causes them stress or loss of sleep. And nearly half of

millennials constantly worry about their financial future. So to round out our chat today, can you talk a little bit about the relationship between mental struggle and finance so actually Georgia it works both ways and this is generally speaking of course but often those experiencing mental health issues find that it can add to financial stress and the other way around too if you've got financial stress like that adds to your mental load and I think that the term mental load is really important here to understand and it might not be something that you guys have heard of before. But the term mental load to me is really, really important. And it's usually used in relation to women, but I think we all experience mental load. And this is the mental work, the

organizing, the list making, the planning, all of the things you are doing to manage your life. And right now for me, I feel like everybody's mental load is heightened because our financial stresses have changed. And I think it's really important to point that out that everybody has mental health but mental health is dependent on how much mental load you are taking on and if you're taking on heaps and heaps of mental load of course it is going to be stressful mentally georgia to put all of this simply we know that financial wellness can bring us security and peace of mind which reduces stress as we know but it is one massive thing we no longer have to worry about we know that money doesn't buy happiness but it sure as hell does afford us a lot of freedom

and the stress of not being able to keep up with our bills or struggling to make ends meets with our debts can considerably impact our day-to-day lives and our mental load so I think it's really important to keep that in mind Georgia I've spoken about this before on the podcast but we also know that finance ranks as essentially the top stressor for Australians according to the APS or the Australian Psychological Association which I would imagine especially during this time is still the case well it's just one of those things that we don't talk about and obviously this podcast aims to combat that but money for so long has been such a taboo and I think we really build up this sense of shame around our money if it's not going so well for us and we don't want to be talking about

it do you think that plays into it at all 100% money's awkward to talk about I mean I don't find it awkward to talk about anymore but I remember there was a time when it was awkward for me and I'm really grateful I've gotten through that and the point of this podcast is to really open up the conversation around money to empower us but more money conversations more often a problem shared is a problem halved and if you can have a conversation with someone about an issue you are struggling with you are going to feel so much lighter whether that is money or something else okay so to wrap up our main chat today Victoria if our listeners could only take away one thing from today's whole episode, what do you think it would be? Be kind to yourselves. I think that

given this has been stretching on for so long, we seem a little bit over looking after ourselves in a way. We seem a little bit over the whole COVID thing. And it's so fair, like everybody is, you know, over Zooming with their friends and they're over talking about COVID and they're over watching the news, but like you can't get over being kind to yourself. And I think still take the pressure off like let's just treat 2020 as a year that we learnt a little bit more about ourselves 2020 is not the year to be you know smashing out financial goals if you are fantastic I'm so happy for you but for those of us who are struggling just practice kindness it is not the year to be you know putting this pressure on ourselves at all

hi there you've reached the shoes on the money mailbox do you have a money problem you want help solving? Do you have a money dilemma you just want to chat about? Victoria is here to help. Every week, we'll be playing your questions to help make sense of a money mess you may have found yourself in. Make a quick recording on your phone and send it through to podcast at she's on the money.com.au and you might even find yourself on the show. But for now, here's today's listener question. Hi ladies, I'm 23 and I was made redundant in April and I haven't been able to get a job since, which I've been feeling kind of guilty and lazy about. I live at home still so I'm okay in that sense but I just feel like I should be starting a side

hustle or trying harder to get a job and get on with things but I'm finding it really hard I'm also in Melbourne which makes things hard too as we can't really go anywhere if you have any advice on how I can pull myself out of this rut so that I can continue saving I would really appreciate it thoughts on this listener question Victoria oh Georgia King I've said it before and I will say it again and that is we don't need to be achieving anything throughout this time it is literally enough to just be surviving through it so if you don't speak another language or you don't have new abs or you don't have a new degree coming out of this pandemic you absolutely have not failed and I'd really like to take issue with that kind of rhetoric

it is so unfair on you to be thinking that you need to be doing more achieving more if you're unemployed and you just want to be working out how to save again I get it I really really do but stop putting pressure on yourself there is you know no pressure on her she's living at home and i'm sure her parents are very sympathetic and empathetic so i think we need to appreciate that and you know like i i just want to jump up and down and say stop putting so much pressure on yourself like it is so hard like yes absolutely if you would like to continue looking for a job i'm not saying give up and just be kind to yourself for six months and lay in bed like that is not it yeah but I think we all need to remember that right now lots of people are unemployed lots

of people are applying for whatever jobs are in existence and so many jobs are not able to hire at the moment either so this is going to be hard for months to come because the level of competition is going to be insane it is not going to be reasonable for you to expect a job right off the bat if I'm being honest and it's also going to just be really challenging mentally because I know lots of us are going to feel so let down when we apply for jobs and then don't hear back from them and that was something that I was speaking to someone about earlier this week actually and they were like look Victoria I've applied for so many jobs and I haven't heard back from any of them I'm like look I get that and I really wish that employers would give you feedback when you

applied for a job that's just not fair but at the moment we're in the middle of a pandemic and I am absolutely sure they would have been inundated with applications. So stop taking the rejection so personally. Yeah. Well, that goes back to what you were saying before, Victoria, about adjusting your expectations of this year a little bit. Absolutely. And I think it's just worthy of pointing it out. Like you guys might already know that, but I think it's one thing to know it and another thing for someone to sit down and go, no, I care about you. Please listen. Like this is something that you need to hear. Lastly, as well, she doesn't have any debts that she's mentioned to kia she's just worried that she's not saving enough so it's all okay i would just take it easy

on yourself for sure now it's time for our favorite part of the show we take a sneak peek into the financial lives of perfect strangers it's time for money diaries hello my name is indebted friend and this is my money diary what does indebted friend do how much does she earn and how much is in her bank account right now? So I work as a environmental consultant. I earn $72,000 a year. I have about $5,000 in my bank account at the moment. And what happens to her income when she gets paid? I immediately take my rent out. At the moment, my partner and I live together. And because I was financially kind of drowning for quite some time, he basically loaned me a good chunk of money to to get out of that immediate debt that I was in and then I'm

paying him back by covering his rent so at the moment when I get paid I pay the full amount of rent and then I have all direct debits for all my bills and I kind of find I just let them come out I don't really pay as much attention to them as I should which I'm trying to get better at was pre-planning when I know they're coming out so I don't look at my account and go oh there's a hundred dollars missing oh it was this bill and then we're also getting married we do for like week on week off of paying our groceries we kind of know about how much that costs per week so I make sure I keep that amount out and then everything else I just try to put away to savings for our upcoming nuptials what are her thoughts on investing at the moment all about

saving. Investing is not something I ever thought about until I listened to the podcast. And it's something I'm definitely more interested in. It's kind of one of those things I'm putting off until wedding is done and I have a personal loan that I'm wanting to really pay down once the wedding's done. Like I really want to get that gone by this time next year. So it's, yeah, it's kind of something that is in the back of my head to do, but not something that I'm currently doing. Now, she did get herself into trouble debt, which blew out to $15,000. How exactly did she find herself in this situation? I had a credit card that I should never have been approved for ever.

Like the fact that the bank even gave me one is just absurd to me. So I had that and then I found I was dipping into it a lot and I wanted to get rid of it. Like I wanted to try and start managing my finances a lot better. So I got a personal loan to cover the credit card and pay that off instead. it was you know lower interest and it was you know a much better option and then where it all kind of spiraled out of control was I didn't immediately close the credit card and then I moved in with a friend and her boyfriend we were living together for maybe three months maybe even two months and they split up and it all spiraled out from there so she basically did him dirty

personally in their relationship and then me as well as a friend and just with the financial obligations that she had towards us in the lease up and left left a job had no idea where she went or what was going on was refusing to pay rent refusing to pay bills we were kind of trying to figure out if we could get a new roommate in it all became really really difficult and so we're like we just need to break the lease but then the unfortunate thing with that as well is she's was still a leaseholder and she still had to agree to pay the lease and she wouldn't and essentially I then had to find a new place to live I moved in with my partner and I was very fortunate that he he covered a lot of the first initial expenses um like the bond for our new place that I essentially

was on the hook for um double rent for weeks the cleaning bill for leaving the old apartment and then moving it and then all the all the stuff that comes with moving you know that's just an expense that you don't even think of I think we had to pay six six weeks break fee because we'd not we'd been in the lease for like two seconds before we broke and it was a 12 12 month lease there was all these other additional costs we had to cover and then she wasn't paying any of it so that's where the credit card kind of came back where I was just like I need this situation to go away. I'm just going to put it all back onto the credit card. And so then I went from a $5,000 debt to a $10,000 debt very, very quickly. And then got engaged planning a wedding and it all just

spiraled very quickly from there. I've just kind of stuck my head in the sand and was like, this isn't happening. And then, yeah. What's her best money habit? I think my best money habit is that when I do have a goal so such as the wedding I will actively work towards it and then once I reach a certain amount of money in savings like I will not touch it like even when payments have come up for the wedding like oh okay we need to pay this next amount of money I'm like oh god I don't want to part with it you know even though that's what it's for but I'm really good at that's what my goal is and that's what I'm working towards and I'll stick to it and what is her worst money habit oh god massive skincare junkie I love it like it's my real self-care thing as

well so I really like I try to take really good care of my skin but I'm also like I really love trying new products and seeing like oh maybe I like this one more than this one and it's my collection is insane but I use it all that's the thing like I use it all it all serves a purpose but yeah it's if there's like new products and things coming out like I'm trying them and I have a very high threshold for what I think is expensive so something that someone is like oh that's outrageous I'm like is it? What are her money goals? The shorter term one is the wedding which is happening very shortly even with COVID because it's very small and then after that it's the personal loan. What would indebted friend grade her money habits? I would say I used to be like

a C or a D like I was a good chunk of especially last year and even the beginning of this year before I consolidated all my debt I was really not doing so crash hot like I was like head in the sand not paying attention to this like let it get out of control now I would say I'm maybe like a B minus I think I think is pretty fair but I know that there are things I can do better but I have been way more strict on setting my goals and sticking to them and not going crazy on really big purchases or anything and like trying to be really mindful of the things that I am purchasing like actually thinking like do I need this does this serve a purpose in my life rather than caving into that impulse but skincare excluded because that's just my thing so you know

doesn't count and what does our indebted friend think she needs to do to get an a i want to learn more about investing and understanding like money better i think at the moment i have a very basic understanding of those things in terms of you know higher interest savings and investing and the steps to take to buy a house and all that all that kind of thing i think i need to really expand just past a more basic knowledge of it rather than just I'm going to save X amount of dollars. Well, why am I saving X amount of dollars and where is that going to and what can I do to make that more worth my while? All righty V, our indebted friend, what did you think? I liked that money diary. I thought it was totally relatable because at what point in

anybody's life haven't they had to deal with a terrible housemate? I feel like everyone's dealt with a housemate that hasn't been great thankfully the housemates that I have had have been lovely I have had my fair share of awkward housemate moments though but none of them have left me in five thousand dollars worth of debt so I feel like maybe I am one of the lucky ones it seems I felt like she had a good salary it sounds like she's on a really nice trajectory with her life she's gonna get married which is really excited she's engaged planning for a wedding, but she still has from what I was saying, Georgie, you're always better at remembering things than I am, but she's still in $10,000 worth of personal debt. Is that right? I think that was

right. Yeah. And she was planning on paying that off after the wedding. Yeah, absolutely. And I really liked that you could see the growth. Like she's gone from having a personal loan to learning that maybe a personal loan wasn't the best thing for her. She wants to get out of that debt. And I liked that she gave us a rating of what past her was like, she was like, Oh, like I used to be a C you're a D, but now I'm a B minus. And I just feel like that level of introspection is really cool to see your own growth and to see where you've come and where you're going. I don't know. That's really cool. What did you think? I just loved her attitude to start with. She just seemed like she had good energy, which I appreciate. But beyond that, the things that I picked up on were that

she's not investing yet. So she hasn't really started getting involved with that. Where would you recommend people who are very green in that area go? Would you say listen to our old podcasts or are there any other resources that we've got? The first thing I would say is it's actually really important to get out of debt before you start investing. Paying off your debt is an investment in itself. A personal loan is going to be costing you about 14% in interest and there's no asset that reasonably pays you back 14%. So your money is literally better used paying off whatever debt you have that carries an interest rate because you're not going to get that return anywhere else like if we invest in the share market we know that the average is 7.5 if your

interest rate is 14 that's nearly double so it actually makes sense because in the long term paying off that is going to cost you less paying it off sooner is going to mean you can invest sooner and I think that it is just really important to point that out so if you are in debt right now That is your priority. I read a really nice quote, because as you guys know, I love a good Insta quote, read a quote that said, if you have savings and debt, you don't really have savings. And that really spoke to me because I felt like that is so true and it just made so, so much sense to me, but it makes sense to be wanting to invest as well. So for me, investing is obviously incredibly important because it is all about creating financial freedom. And at the end of

the day, the longer you're invested, the more quote free money you end up with. As a licensed financial advisor though, I can't tell you exactly where to start. I can just educate you on what investing is, how it works and talk about the different products. I know lots of people in our community, Georgia, are really enjoying micro-investing platforms at the moment. I know in our community, platforms like Raise and Spaceship are incredibly popular. It's not a recommendation from us by any stretch of the imagination like they are things that I do use personally and I think that's worthy of saying but they are things that you know give you a leg up you can start rounding up investing your spare change instead of having to invest thousands of

dollars from the beginning so for me I'd probably be looking at something that helps me increase my financial literacy and my education around shares and if you have a lump sum of money that you want to be investing I think it's really worth talking to a financial advisor because in the long term talking to a financial advisor is going to pay for itself tenfold I promise you and I am also curious to what you would say about her little skincare addiction there is that okay because it aligns with her values or is that something she should maybe rein in a little bit Georgia King I see you smirking we're on zoom but I can see you smirking because you know that I have a skincare addiction exactly but if it aligns with her values I think that that's really important

but we also need to make sure that even if something aligns with our values it's not hindering our future success so if she's going further into debt because of this then obviously that's a bad thing if she's not paying off debt and prioritizing purchasing skincare then to me that's not a great thing but if that is the one thing that she's like do you know what I save in every other aspect I'm smashing this debt down and that is my one thing that I am going to prioritize spending money on because I love it you go girl like I'm here for that and I feel like we all have that one thing that we love spending our money on we shouldn't be judged for that we should just be really reasonable about how we do that and maybe put a little bit of a budget around

it so we can look after ourselves but also make sure that our spending doesn't compromise our larger goals yeah love that well I feel like we could chat about skincare forever but it is now time to wrap the show but just before we head off we'd like to acknowledge and pay respects to australia's aboriginal and torres strait islander peoples the traditional custodians of the lands waterways and skies across australia we thank you for sharing and caring for the land on which we are able to learn we pay our respects to elders past and present and share our friendship and kindness now let's quickly wrap the boring but important stuff the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances

She's on the money, exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And stress less, we promise Victoria Devine is an authorised representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management, Proprietary Limited, ABN 34132463257, AFSL 339151. And as always, a big shout out to Ryan John for putting together today's podcast.

What an absolute legend he is, I've heard. We would so love it if you guys joined our Facebook group. where our community shares money, tips, and tricks every single day free of judgment. Search She's On The Money on Facebook and join us. If Facebook's not your thing, you can also find us on Instagram. We're at She's On The Money AUS. See you guys.

See you next week, guys.