She's On The Money - Managing People in the Workplace

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

Managing people can feel like a maze—whether you’re running a business, managing a team, or just trying to survive office politics. In this Business Bible episode, we’re cutting through the noise and giving you practical, no-nonsense tips for managing people like a pro. From building a team culture to mastering feedback, and creating clear HR policies (that actually work), this episode is packed with advice to help you navigate the workplace with confidence. And don’t worry—it’s not just for business owners; these tips are universal, so whether you’re hiring your first employee or leveling up in your career, we’ve got you covered. Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast that's here to make your business smarter, your leadership sharper and your workplace, well, less of a stress fest. I am Victoria Devine, retired financial advisor, author of the Business Bible, and owner of several successful businesses. It's never not going to be weird, Jessica, saying that out loud. And today, it's a Business Bible episode. But don't scroll away if you're not running your own business, because this one is jam-packed with tips for anyone in the workplace. Whether you're managing a team, working on your career, or just trying to navigate office life like a pro, we've got you covered. From building a team culture that slaps

to handling those tricky, Jessica, can we talk, conversations, we're breaking down the top five HR rules to make work less complicated and, dare I say, actually enjoyable. Oh, that'd be nice. And joining me today is the hardest working side hustler I know that thankfully doesn't have any employees, so can be really rile on this show, Miss Jessica Ricci. Yeah. HR is the bin in my business. Yeah. You're like, what? For a long time, we did have a sticker on the shredder that said HR. Submit to your complaint there. I mean, it was a flawless system. Until we had to grow up because we became an actual business.

Yes. One out of 10. It is a really important conversation to have. Culture really is the foundation of any business. You obviously have studied organizational psychology, VD. Ew. So I feel like you're going to have a little bit more insight into how that kind of impacted the way that you manage people in the workplace. Oh my gosh, does it ever. I feel like I wish I could just step into being a mediocre middle-aged white man middle manager. It would be nice, wouldn't it? It would be nice because they just don't care. They're like, Jess, we've got to talk. And then they, what, let you stew all weekend? Couldn't be me. Couldn't be me. I'd be dead before the meeting. Couldn't be me. Like,

I send meeting requests with catch up in brackets. Good thing, don't worry. Yeah. Because I am so worried that I'll stress you out over nothing but I also have a very clean framework of performance management if things aren't going as well as they should which is important yeah I feel like yes and no like it's kind of like helped obviously but it's also hindered not making it bad but I do put a lot of pressure on myself to make sure that it's an enjoyable workplace and things are going well and I don't know I'm not a genius I'm just a girl out here trying to do my best. Aren't we all? But we do have some rules, you know? All right. Tell me about these rules. What's number one? All right. So first things first, I think it's about getting really clear

on your HR policies early and also knowing your legal obligations. So from my perspective, HR policies are kind of like the rule book of how your workplace should work. And there's a free one online. Like you can go onto the Fair Work website. They will have an HR policies and procedure document that you can download and edit to your heart's content. Without them, I think you're setting your team up for some confusion and inconsistency and unnecessary drama. And then if you're also a first time employer, it's a really good like expectation setter with you. You might not know that you have these obligations. Like you might go, oh, I didn't realize that I had to give them 24 hours notice for this type of meeting,

or I didn't realize that I needed to do A, B and C. And that doesn't mean that you're a bad manager. It just means you've not led people before. And if you have led people before and you don't know these obligations, it's a good reminder to go and do that. So clear policies protect everyone. I know that lots of people will say, well, HR is there to protect the company. And from the perspective of an employer, yes, it is. And why is it? Because if I'm doing the right thing by you, Jess, I'm protecting the company. Like I'm not here to do the wrong thing. Like HR and having a HR person doesn't mean you can't take me to fair work if I did the wrong thing. It doesn't mean that you can't, you know, seek legal injunction if you needed to.

Like it doesn't protect me in that way. So, yes, HR works for me. But at the end of the day, I employ them to look after you and by virtue look after me. Like our HR makes sure that I know what policies and procedures exist. and surprisingly you can have internal HR which we don't have or external HR which is like a consulting service yeah that kind of come in a bit like a bookkeeper and just make sure that everything's all good yeah like how would I know that employment law has changed if I've had my head in the podcast realm for the last month they email me and they're like hey they just so you

know update xyz with your bookkeeper to make sure that you're staying within the breadth of what you need to yeah because as an employer you have that responsibility don't you to your employees to make sure that you're doing the right thing. A hundred percent. And like having a clear document or having a clear location to keep HR policies is going to mean that, you know, everyone knows their rights. They know their responsibilities and they also know how to handle things if things aren't going well. Like that's important. Yeah, absolutely. What does that look like in action? So obviously starting with essentials, what's your onboarding process, Jess? Ours is still rogue. I'm really sorry. What are your leave entitlements? So that should also be in your

employment contracts? What do performance reviews look like? How are we going to do that? And also, how are we handling conflict? You might, and everyone does, at the start of their business, go, it's sunshine and roses. There's never going to be conflict in my business. There will be conflict in your business. May your delulu come true, true. There's always going to be something. And it doesn't mean that the conflict lasts. It just means you need to have a process for talking it through and nipping it in the butt so that it doesn't become a bigger thing. But if there's no process, you're gone spiral and you don't know how to deal with it. So from my perspective, it's keep it simple. All processes

should be as simple as possible. They should be super easy to understand, also accessible to everybody. It's not some policy that you've set that no one else is able to communicate. No one should have to decode some legal bloody jargon just to understand how to apply for annual leave to know what to expect during a performance review. And then this is my psychotic side stepping in, document everything. Maybe this comes from my financial advice world. But like, even when I've spoken to you about things, Jess, what do I say? Send yourself an email. Yeah. It doesn't even have to be this like super formal process. But if you email something to yourself, you are timestamping it. You can't edit that. You can't edit the time an email ends

up in your inbox and if ever anything should happen you can go back and find all of those things and say well actually I do remember what happened because I sent myself an email when it was still fresh in my mind of everything that happened here is my file note so you could file note it properly you could like do it on a word document you could have like an internal CRM that you might manage those things through but at the very least emailing it to yourself is really helpful. So obviously having a printed handbook, fantastic. But if something's happening and you're having conversations with people, document them. I prefer that to be a waste of time because like, you know, I've never had to do this with you, thank God. But like, if I had to have a serious

conversation with you, Jess, I would send myself an email so that then I could go back and be like, well, what did I talk to Jess about the first time? You know, what did she say about this? If there's a second follow-up, I can be like, look, Jess, I documented it the first time and this is what we said. These were the outcomes. This is what we've met. This is what we haven't met. And I think that that's really important because time makes things cloudy. So if time passes and I'm like, oh, Jess, I had a chat to you about this before. And you go, yeah, what was I meant to do again? And you go, oh, I don't remember. Yeah. Unacceptable. Also, there's no way you wouldn't have documented it. You're Jess. You would have come to the table.

One of us is documenting. But it's not the point. I'm just using it as an example. But I think reviewing and updating regularly because your team is going to grow. Laws are going to change. Your policies might need tweaking to stay relevant. And I think summary of all of that is just have clear, documented HR policies. And if you have them and don't use them, that's great. Amazing. But I'd prefer you to have them and not need them than need them and not have them. Oh, a hundred percent. How would you approach building the team when you're making those first hiring decisions? Obviously, you made a great first choice in me.

Oh, yeah. She's on the money. Team started off on the best foot. Couldn't have done any better if I say so myself. No. So I have a theory and it's called hire slow, fire fast. Oh, it sounds real savage, but we have quite a recruitment process. If you're listening to this and you've ever been through it, I apologize. But I also don't because it means that you can find the right role and I can find the right fit. So it's about making sure that there are multiple points of contact. I don't just like have a coffee catch up with someone and be like, Hey Jess, do you want a job? Like poor Jess, like you were put through, even as my first hire, like online interview,

interview in person, Q and A, what would this look like? How would this work? I think even because I was into content for the business Bible at that point, I made you go into a sound booth and like we have that somewhere yeah I made you record yourself and what you were feeling like that's probably not acceptable against HR not against HR just a bit weird yeah but at the end of the day bringing somebody into your team is the biggest commitment ever like from my perspective it's so scary as well because like I don't know I pay your income like that is a Massive commitment. And I don't want you to rush that process. And it's not just about your resume. It's also about how they bring themselves to the table, what their tenacity is like,

what their work values, their values, their cultural fit, their goals. So I think using multiple rounds of interviews is really smart. And if possible, involve your team. So now that we do have a bigger team, whenever I'm hiring someone new, the first port of call will be a phone interview with somebody that's not me. Second port of call is an interview with me. And if all of that is going swimmingly, you get invited to an interview with some of the team members and I'm not there. And that's purposeful because then you can be like, Jess, what's it actually like working for me? What's your work-life balance like? You know, what is your weekends look like? You know, what does, you know, work task allocation look like? How does team communication

go? What's work from home actually? You know, ask all those questions, but then the team can also work out if you're somebody that they would interact with consistently on a daily basis you get a vibe you get a feel and I think that to just rely on a resume is silly like it's very outdated isn't it a hundred percent outdated and like Jess lots of people applied for roles that you applied for and you got it and you didn't even have a degree because you were the right fit and yeah have I regretted that maybe a little but no but have I regretted that no because you've been here for years now and have been an integral part of the team. I don't regret that for a second. So I think it's so important to do that. But on the flip side, fire fast. I can tell you right

now, if you talk to any manager who's hired someone new and they've known if it was a bad fit, they know within the first week. It does not mean that they do anything about that though. Like you need to nip that in the bud and pull that person aside. Hey, Barry, I'm really sorry. This just isn't working out for you or me. It gives them the opportunity to go find something the works for them and you the opportunity to find the right team member. Like it can lower team morale, having the wrong person on the team. Like it can impact your productivity. It can even hurt that person in the role because they might thrive somewhere else. You're impacting their confidence. Like if they're not good at that job, let them go. Like, yeah. I feel like some people

might hold on because they feel almost like a failure. Like if they've made, they've gone, oh, I think I made the right decision. And then they go, oh, maybe it's not feeling right. maybe they could go oh you know I was so confident or I saw xyz yeah but do you think it's fair to say that until you have someone doing the job in your team in routine like people can put their best foot forward in an interview and it just not translate in the way that you 100% and I think that you might look at me and go Victoria that's ruthless that's awful like give them a chance if you can't show me your best in the first few weeks of your employment like what is going on like are you not meant to put your best foot forward during that period of time and it probably

does sound ruthless but at the end of the day for me it's about clarity it's about respect it's about being upfront and professional with that person and I find that kinder than dragging it out and firing them in six months like I have interviewed and hired somebody before who had just got a new role and I said why are you here didn't you just say that you have a new role and they said, yeah, absolutely. I've been there for two weeks and it's absolutely not the right fit. I had so much respect for that person because I was like, really? Tell me about that. What does that mean? And ended up hiring them. They've stayed. It's fantastic. But I had so much respect because they knew to pull the trigger early and they were like, I'm not going to waste the

business's time. I feel like my time's being wasted. You know, the expectations they set in the interview were not what it ended up being. Like, I have a lot more respect for that. And I've also got a lot more respect for other people that I'm not going to drag it out yeah it's not fair that feels reasonable to me I feel like it does but you know on the flip side if you just got your new job and then you find a week later you're not the right fit doesn't it's not a good feeling yeah but I guess HR or like you know making hiring choices more broadly you have to take the emotion out of it a little bit as an employer right you have to make the decision that's right for you right for the team because as much as like in an ideal world no one would

ever hurt anybody's feelings and everyone would get along and everything would be perfect see I agree and I don't agree so like taking the emotion out of it is important for clear decision making and I do that but then I think it's important to inject your personality and your ethics and your morals back into it you can still be empathetic yeah 100% there is what fair work says you need to do right so like let's say we are terminating somebody like there is what fair work says I need to make sure that I give someone 24 hours notice before I terminate their role I need to offer them a support person all of that other stuff but is that the kindest way to do it yeah probably not we'll do that as a bare minimum but like there are additional things that I can

layer on top of that like making sure that I have a very clear process of performance management so if somebody isn't performing well I'm not just going to go okay cool we're done and I've given in the mornings, but I haven't. I'm going to make sure that my language is clear. My warnings are clear. I'm going to make sure that when it comes to that termination process, I'm clear in giving feedback because if I'm not giving that person feedback, I'm not helping them grow in the next role and I'm setting them up for failure. And a lot of the time, it's not a personal decision. It's a technical competency issue and going, cool, we've tried X, Y, and Z and it's just not working but what can I do to be the kindest in this situation because it feels like trash being

fired no one wants that yeah so I think it's about making sure that you don't just take all the emotion out of it because I think that empathetic leadership needs some level of emotion still to still have your wits about you I'm not the devil yeah do you know what I mean just your boss yeah like I am your boss but also I'm not a dick or maybe I am but like I try really hard not to be sometimes. But let's go to a really quick break. I feel like we're just getting started. After the break, I'm going to dive into, I guess, the secret sauce for keeping your workplace running smoothly, everything from communication, feedback, and building a culture that people actually want to stick around for. So stay tuned. All right, everyone, we're back. VD,

we've talked about policies and hiring, but once you've got the right people in place, what's the next step for making sure that everything does run smoothly? Culture. Culture. Culture. With our A-H at the end. Culture. Got to make sure you have good culture. Culture is so important. But before you get culture, I feel like everybody throws this term of like, oh, culture is so important at work. Is culture that important if you have shitty communication? Is shitty communication a symptom of bad culture? Exactly. So the first thing I want to talk about is communication. Great. It's funny because on our Friday drinks episode, Jess, we're always like, oh, we've got a dilemma. And what's the

answer? 99.99% of the time. Oh, if you just communicated. Communication is that glue that sticks the workplace together. Like it is something that you need to have open and flowing, but then also realize if a change is being made, often don't take it personally. So I think that sometimes people will go, oh my God, my boss decided to implement like a rule where we only get 45 minutes of our lunch break. Why are we taking this so personally? Like it's just a rule. Someone's broken it. Great. No worries. Like pick it up, move forward. Like we'll just change the way that we're working. But without good communication, workplaces start to fall apart. Things start to get tricky and hard and consistent and clear communication is going to keep you on track.

it's going to mean that you stay aligned, but it's also going to reduce friction and it's going to create an environment where everyone feels heard and informed and on top of things. You've got four C's, Jessica, and I've talked about them before on the podcast. You've got clarity, consistency, context, and collaboration. And to have effective communication, you need to meet all four of these things. And it sounds lame, but having a framework makes life so much easier as a leader because so often I'll be like, but I told her in my head and then realized that maybe I didn't meet the four C's and that probably wasn't effective communication. I was just busy and trying to get rid of it. So clarity is obviously being really specific, being really

concise, like not saying things like, oh, Jess, we need to do better. Great. Saying something like, okay, to do better, we need to deliver that draft by next Friday at 4pm. Yeah. Like being really clear the next is consistency so staying regular with your updates making sure that things are shared meetings via email or via slack repetition means that everybody is aligned context is important if you tell me to do something and I don't know why or when or where or how like how am I going to do that like oh Jess can you fix that project what project and context is key even in just like the urgency like a hundred percent like oh the client doesn't like it can you change it jess what like we need some context so for example instead of just asking oh can you make

some changes because the client doesn't like it saying the client asked for revisions to better align with their branding the color's a bit off could you please update it they also would prefer to feature a instead of b yeah but okay no worries like also if you're providing context like oh the client just didn't like it that feels personal yeah like ill david we are not making things personal we're taking the personal out of it like clients can be frustrating if any of my clients are listening turn this off right now you're all delights but it can be very frustrating sometimes when a client gives you feedback not effectively communicated not effectively communicated and you can't manage that yeah so manage your team so i know that you have had this historically just

not at the moment thank god where a client has just said i don't like it i want to make changes and I've had to then go back to you, Jess, and be like, oh, the client doesn't like it. I need to then communicate with you. Look, the client has said they don't like it. They haven't given me a lot of context. Unfortunately, this is the feedback. Have a look at the emails. These are the communications I've had with them before. And like you and I have had to sit down and decipher maybe what they meant because we haven't been able to do that. But if I said, oh, they just didn't like it, Jess, and moved on, you think that I'm being a little bit flippant, whereas the situation is a bit deeper than that. So when you have context, great, share it. But if you don't

have context, also share that you have no context and provide as much information on the fact that you're in the dark as well is really important. And I think so many times issues arise because I'll be like, well, Jess, you didn't tell me. And then you go, oh, well, I wasn't told either. And I go, well, why didn't you tell me that you weren't told? It just becomes a whole thing and it doesn't need to be. And then the last one is collaboration. So we're creating a space for two-way dialogue, which I have sadly done in my business, where you give me feedback as much as I'm giving you feedback. And it's actually a really good thing. So I'm asking you guys, well, what's your perspective on this decision I'm making and vice versa? So sometimes I'm humbled

and I'm like, I've got this really great idea. It's called 2020 Thrive, right? So we're going to name our whole thing 2020 Thrive. And you know what my team came back and said? Looks great. But Victoria, in text, it looks like you've said 202 Thrive. What's 202 Thrive? Yeah. Sounds good when I verbally speak it. Great. So 2020 Thrive, slay. When you put it on a heading, looks terrible. And I needed to be humbled. So we're not using that as aggressively. We'll use it on the podcast, but it can't be a heading for something because it just doesn't translate. Yeah. Can you imagine if my team were just agreeable? Life would be easy but hard. Great idea, Victoria. That's going to really float everybody's boat. Like it would have been awful, right? So I think

collaboration, making sure that people feel safe to challenge, but also they feel confident to share their opinions. And that can be harder done than said. Yeah. You really have to cultivate a safe space. Because I know in my business, thankfully, you guys can be like, Victoria, that is a terrible idea. And I'll be like, fair. Whereas I'm sure that there are people listening to this. If they told their boss that something was a terrible idea, they'd be like, get out of my office or even worse. You know what I mean? So you've got to read the room. So what I'm feeling is great communication isn't just about talking. It's about ensuring that everybody understands they feel heard. They know next steps. I feel like when in doubt,

But over-communicate rather than assuming everyone's on the same page. Because what do they say? When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. You've said that one time before, I believe. What about when things aren't going as planned, though, or if you need to maybe recalibrate the way that you're doing things? It's almost like communication is key here, Jess. Really?

It's actually crazy, but I'm also going to say feedback. Communicate feedback. the number four rule is make sure that you are using a framework for effective communication and effective feedback it matters for so many different reasons right you might think by just delivering some feedback and walking off that's enough and it's just really not so feedback is one of the most powerful tools for people for personal and professional growth and i think sometimes even framing it and being like hey like and thank god i haven't had to do this i feel like I've given you feedback that you haven't liked before, but it's worked well. Hey Jess, I'm going

to give you some feedback and I'm aware that this might not be the nicest thing to hear, but I hope you know that when I'm telling you this, it's coming from a place of love and wanting you to be better and do better. And I know you can, as opposed to me being critical, right? And then you can go, oh, okay. You've kind of braced yourself for the feedback, but also, you know, that I'm aware that that could be a dick thing to share. I don't want you to immediately go, V said that she hated my thing like and that can happen it's all in the delivery when feedback is done correctly it improves performance it improves like the strength of your team team dynamics it builds trust like I think that good feedback coming from somebody who wants you to do well is a gift

whereas some people think that just being rude or being like well I don't like it like yeah that's not feedback that's opinion and you need to decipher the difference between personal opinion and feedback as well I think that's something that a lot of people don't do well they will deliver it and be like oh I think that's terrible and then it's like well actually does it meet the brief like you might not like this you know it happens a lot in marketing like people will say that they don't like something but it's actually personal opinion and then you realize there's a lot of research behind why it's presented that way have a think about how you're delivering it and where this feedback is coming from on the flip side if you're giving bad feedback poor

feedback or even no feedback at all, it leaves people a bit confused. They're like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to do this. They're unmotivated. They might be a little bit resentful. And I think that is a really awful position to be in. It doesn't help for the culture, Jessica. And we're all about the culture. A hundred percent. So this is where you want to use a framework again. And my favorite framework is the situation impact action framework. So if you're giving feedback let's do a little role play example so you're going to describe what happened so the situation focusing only on the facts so example in the last meeting you spoke over sarah while she was sharing her thoughts sarah doesn't exist there's no sarah while she

was sharing her ideas and then you're going to explain the impact so we're not going to like talk about how oh no i just don't think that's very not no no no no cut that out we don't care about that you're then going to explain why it matters and how it affected the team or the project so it really interrupted her flow and made it harder for her to fully explain her point and then she just seemed a bit hesitant to speak up again valid valid then what's the action so we're not just going to be like you spoke over somebody made her feel bad and drop the mic and walk out yeah what behavior do we want modeled in the future look let's just make sure that everyone gets to finish their thoughts before we jump in. I know you're really excited about that and really

enthusiastic. So maybe just take a quick pause to check if anyone is like still speaking, make sure they're done before you're jumping in. Great. Really simple. Really simple, really easy. It's not about personal opinion, which I think is where feedback gets really cloudy. Yeah. It sets you up for success and they're probably going to go, yeah, you're right. That will help me. Yeah. It's a simple thing. They know exactly what they need to do. No harm, no foul. They can fix it for next And it's funny because that example would literally never happen with you, Jessica. It would happen with me. I speak over everybody.

I do. And you are like the thoughtful one that goes, oh, I have a point. May I raise my hand? Yeah, you're like, you put your hand up or something. So like that's a terrible example if you were imagining Jessica in it. Just imagine that that was being delivered to me because I would feel much better if someone was like, oh, you did this thing and it impacted somebody else and in the future you need to do this.

I'd be like, okay, cool, no worries. Yeah. Whereas if somebody was giving me feedback and they're like, stop talking over Jess, I'd be like, oh, sorry. And you feel bad about yourself and that doesn't help anything. It doesn't help anyone or anything because then I don't even realize when I did that. Was it at lunch or was it at dinner? Like, do I do it all the time?

Like, we're nipping it in the butt. Can I say here, I also think it's really important when using this framework to think about who you're delivering to and the way that they like to receive feedback. And I think a particularly relevant example is exactly what you were just saying with how you interrupt for you it's because of your neurodiversity and I think it's I'm glad I have an excuse yeah but I think it's also like really important when we're talking about like obviously this is a great broad framework but people are so unique and the way that I receive feedback the way you receive feedback I think getting to know your team and I feel like we're going to

maybe talk about this a little bit in about five seconds maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but I think like that's a really important thing and you know acknowledging that certain behaviors may be results of neurodiversity or past experience or things like that as well and I know that talking over people can be perceived as being incredibly rude right but I think that we are at a point in our team I'm not saying it's acceptable I do try my best please I'm not saying that that's okay but I think that when I do that accidentally now still people aren't like Victoria think she's more important like I think that because we fully comprehend each other and I've shared that people are like oh she's just so excited about the next point yeah and sometimes the team's like

they sit down like go back two steps yeah go back two steps because we're actually not talking about that yet we're still not done here and I think that that can be a really good way of managing it as well like a lot of people might take personal offense be like oh my god I can't believe Victoria spoke over me again in that meeting it's not because I don't respect you I promise you that. And I think that having that context is really, really important. I completely agree. And I think it filters really nicely into creating that great team culture. How do you make sure that, you know, whatever business company culture you're building is something that people actually want to be a part of? You've actually just got to post on social

media all the time. You've got to post like really attractive pictures of yourself and your team, like and your team loving you that's how to do good culture and the episode there in fact do you know what's funny about that is I have met so many people who have been like oh actually our internal team culture is nothing like you see online I think that's a very common thing I think it's a very common thing for businesses to be posting online about this and thinking that culture comes from what the content they share and I think it's important to point out because I'm so aware of that. Like, I think you and I can agree. I don't even have to agree to this, but like our team will probably be like, yeah, what you say online is exactly how we are in person because it's just

what naturally happens. But I think building a culture starts from internal and it starts from the top. So like if I'm not role modeling the behaviors that I expect, how do I expect other people doing them? And if we're not doing them internally, how are we expecting people to see them on the outside how we're expecting to talk about how great we are if we're not actually great internally. I can't think of anything more mortifying than being like, yeah, I really respect my team. And then my team in the background rolling their eyes like, ew, that gives me the ick so hard. So if we think about the best workplace culture we can, we're going to imagine people are super engaged and supported and they're genuinely happy to show up. And that kind of

energy doesn't just happen. And I guess the opposite is a workplace where tension and competition end up taking over and nobody feels valued and then everyone just waits for the countdown five o'clock when they can run out of their laptop shut back on back and bad culture drains teams and it fuels turnover and it kills productivity and I mean a thriving culture it doesn't just boost morale it actually turns your workplace into a place that people want to stay and grow and do their best and I'm very lucky that I used to work as a culture and engagement consultant and so I work on a say stay and thrive model so that's my concept that I work on and if you can meet all three of these things I think you're well on the way to having a good

team culture internally and externally and whether you're an employer this applies obviously but if you're an employee having a think about this so I want people to be saying good things about my business when I'm not around you don't need to say it in front of me that doesn't matter but Like imagine, Jess, you're at a barbecue on the weekend and someone says, Jess, where do you work? And you say, I work at She's On The Money. Are you going to go, oh, I work at She's On The Money? And they go, how is it?

And then you go, whatever, let's not talk about work. Or you go, oh my gosh, I love my job. I do this, I do that, right? So I want people saying good things. The second is stay. So that's about tenure and having low turnover. Are people incentivized and want to stay with the company? like are they in a position where they want to stay for the longevity do they see a career there

do they see that they are respected and you know enjoying it or are they looking for a new job yeah so i want to meet those two and then the third one is the strive component and i feel like this strive component it is something that you can't pay people for you can pay people all the money in the world but this is about cultural fit and hiring the right people because if you have hired the right people they will strive for your business they will go above and beyond they won't have to be asked to go above and beyond because if you have a good culture you're not asking people to stay late but you'll notice things happening in the background like they're saying good things about your business they are you know promoting it they're you know staying in their role and

they're going above and beyond because they feel respected and they feel like you know they're really contributing to the greater good they understand that there's effective and clear leadership they understand that there is you know career opportunities for them on the table or you know what not everyone's looking for career opportunities some people just want a steady job and that's cool too but like they understand that their position is respected and I think that that's what culture looks like in action so those three things are going to contribute to having highly engaged employees and to go back to me being a culture and engagement consultant we know that businesses that have engaged employees have 50% higher shareholder return than businesses

that have disengaged employees. Isn't that crazy? So just by focusing on culture, you are impacting the bottom line of your business. Yeah. And like, I could go into it for days. We don't have time, but I could go into it for days about how your team are what makes your business successful. And that's why often when I'm interviewed or I'm talking to people and they're like, you've done so well. And I'm like, it's not me, it's my team. I'm not even flipping it off me. I'm like, I wouldn't be where I would be today without a solid team. But my solid team comes from being respected and having that back and forth relationship. And I mean, to me, good culture is the difference between a workplace people endure and a workplace people thrive in. And so

I think when you create a culture that aligns with your team's values and makes them feel connected, you're not just building a team you're kind of building loyalty and creativity and success they can still leave though because you know we had a team member leave more than a year ago now and I think it's so important to understand where you sit so like obviously I've done say stay and strive and stay is great but like what if you outgrow the role that doesn't mean that you become disengaged with the culture yeah if somebody in my business has outgrown a role For example, Gabby in our business, I can talk about her because she loved this. She worked in marketing in our business.

She started as EA, worked her way up, did marketing, and then God offered an epic marketing role at the AFL. I can't compete with that. So what am I going to do? Be mad about that or be grateful that I got to be along the journey of that. I loved the fact that we got to be a part of her journey. I was sad that she was leaving, but now I'm so proud that She's On The Money helped her get their slate. Absolutely. I feel like those five rules set a really good foundation for HR

and for managing people in general, not even just from like a business owner perspective, but also just anyone in the workplace. You know, these are the things that you want to be looking for. This should be the standard that we're holding, you know, our employers to. Yeah. And if you have listened to this and you're like, I'm not say, I'm not stay, I'm not strive, look for a new job. I'm sorry to the employers listening, but like, if you're not doing those three things, you're not engaged and it's good for them that you're going to move on. But also it's great for you because you're going to find somewhere that you actually feel valued. Totally.

Absolutely. And I think if you're running your own business or managing a team where you're just trying to be a better coworker or friend at work, these rules are universal. It's all about setting clear expectations and fostering open, honest communication and building a culture where people actually want to show up. It's a big one. Oh, I think we're done for today. But before we wrap up, Jess, in the new year, Business Bible's having a glow up. We love to see it. We do.

We're giving Business Bible its own dedicated feed again. That is right. It is getting a revamp. There are some really fun things planned and I know you're going to love it. So make sure you hit the link in our show notes to subscribe so you don't miss a thing because Business Bible episodes are no longer going to be on the She's On The Money feed. Whether you're already a loyal Business Bible fan, thank you, or you're new to the series, this is the perfect time to jump in.

Big things are coming and I cannot wait to share with you what we have been working on behind the scenes. Oh, it's so exciting. I'll be hitting subscribe ASAP. I love that. You better because it's 2020 Thrive next year, Jessica. We love it. We're going to use that in audio all the time.

Have a good rest of your week, guys. Bye. Bye. the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision if you do choose to buy a financial product read the pds tmd and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money

Sherpa PTY LTD ABN 321 649 27708 AFSL 451 289.