She's On The Money - Michelle Battersby on Side Hustles, Modelling Mat Leave & More!

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Welcome to a not so average Friday. While our beloved Victoria Devine is on maternity leave, Jessica Ricci and Bec Syed will be joined each Friday by a whole heap of friends of the show! First up is the incredible Michelle Battersby, tech start up queen, founder of Sunroom and SO much more. On the show today the gals share your money wins, talk broke tips and answer a Money Dilemma about taking a pay cut to work for a company that will get you future opportunities. Plus you slid into our DMs this week with a juicy one all about prioritising your fiances for lifestyle, or children. Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Today is Friday, which means it's time to get the team together to celebrate you, the incredible She's on the Money community. But today is no ordinary Friday because it's Jessica Ricci right now. Victoria Devine is not with us. She's currently on maternity leave. And it's me and Miss Bex Syed holding down the fort. Hi, guys. We do have a special guest, though, with us. We are going to have some friends of the show on over the next few weeks while Vee is on mat leave. Today, we do have a wonderful

friend, Michelle Battersby. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. Thank you so much. For those who don't know yourself or much about you, please give us a little rundown. Wow. Okay. So I've worked in tech startups for the past nine years. I got my start in the tech industry. I was the seventh employee at Bumble globally. I was the first employee at Bumble in Australia and I launched the brand into the Australian market and then into four other countries. And working at Bumble was really where I found my passion for working on products that bettered the lives of women and the people using them. So I've since gone on to start my own startup, which is called Sunroom. It's based in LA. I'm based in LA. We've raised about $7

million US dollars in venture capital. And now we're taking that money, building a product that puts money back in women and non-binary creators' hands. So yeah, that's me, I guess. Incredible. That is a phenomenal resume. It's always so hard when someone says to you, tell me about yourself, to try and sum up your whole experience as a human being into a few short sentences. But I must say yours is absolutely killer. Absolutely. Very impressive. Now, don't worry, everybody. We're not going to switch up the format on you too much. Today, we're going to be sharing some of our favorite money wins. Bec is going to share some of her

best broke tips and we're going to be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma, which this week is all about taking a pay cut to work for a company that will get you future opportunities. And we're going to unpack something that you slid into our DMs about, which this week is all about how to prioritize your finances, choosing to have kids or your lifestyle, which I think could be very interesting to chat about. But before we get there, how's everybody's week been? Michelle, what have you been up to oh how's my week been well I mean speaking of Victoria being out I'm nearly six months pregnant so congratulations congrats I'm navigating that as well so it feels good to be helping out a fellow you know fresh mum to be yeah trying to just get my my life in

order I've started to think about what I will do with my company as I approach birth so there's a bit on. I'm just getting ready for some change. Is it really overwhelming? Because I guess for the average person, you have such a standard process. You take your parental leave, you know, you then decide whether you're going to re-enter the workforce, whether that's part-time, full-time. But watching VD go through it, when you're the owner of the company, there's not really any rules. You can do whatever you want, which I feel like to the average person, you go, oh my God, that sounds amazing. But I can see that it is on the other side, very almost overwhelming because you're so passionate about your company and the thing that you've built,

but you're also, I would imagine, extremely passionate and excited about the family and that new adventure. Have you found it hard to kind of figure out what to do because there's not really a blueprint for you? Definitely. I feel it is such a privilege having your own company and navigating pregnancy at the same time because you are able to make the rules. And I'm also very conscious. Similarly to Victoria, when you have so many women working for you as well, I feel like I really want to do this well and show them that if and when they choose to go through this, they'll be supported by me and by Sunroom. I'm lucky because I actually reached out to our lead investor, which is an Australian VC fund, and they actually pulled together a women's circle

type thing full of all the women that they'd invested in over the past few years that were moms or were becoming moms. And I was actually able to listen to how they navigated this as a founder. And some of them had some amazing approaches to how they've done it. So I think I'm going to take a bit of a phased approach and I'm going to allow myself some time where I'm not contacted unless it's for an emergency. And then I think I'm going to try and gradually enter my way back in. It will be quite soon. I think that's one of the downfalls of it being your own company is there never really is that time off, but I'm also just trying to be flexible with myself and recognize that I have absolutely no idea what this is going to be like and just

set myself up with the support that I need and that Sunroom needs. That's awesome. It's great to hear that you know that you're modeling, I guess, for other women too, because I think for so long you know it's almost a scary thing like having a baby in your career and yeah I think having someone that people can look to and see how that experience goes is awesome yeah I felt that as well like I've been the employee in so many companies where I haven't felt necessarily like I would be safe or supported through this and I think that's a reality for many women so I think it's very important that we are modeling it in a way that shows this is something that will be celebrated and won't be looked at as a threat to productivity, which unfortunately it is in

some workforces. A hundred percent. I feel like we can have a really good conversation about this week's DM because I think it's going to be so good. But before we get there, how's your week been? What have you been up to? My week has been absolutely lovely. The weather's been, as per usual, kind of nice sometimes, kind of not nice sometimes. Classic Melbourne. That's quite all right. But otherwise, yeah, just like, you know, doing the usual. Yeah. Going to the gym, hitting the weights, seeing friends and yeah, watching, I watched Salt Burn. I don't know about you guys, but.

What did you think? I've heard crazy reviews. I loved it. I was like waiting for something crazy to happen. I was like, okay, you know, I can't see anything that's. You didn't think anything crazy happened? Did you watch it? No, but I've heard a few of the key bizarre things.

Sure, sure, sure. And that's obviously something that maybe you're. Not my normal behavior that I would choose to partake in. Not your day-to-day. I'm not here to yuck anybody's yum, though. Of course, of course. Michelle, have you watched it? I haven't, and it's because I've been so scared by some of the stuff I've been seeing on TikTok.

Yeah, don't be scared, guys. Yeah, you're giving me the confidence to potentially watch it. Is it something I can watch alone, or do I need company? You can absolutely watch it alone. It's not, like, scary or anything. It's honestly, like, yeah, there are some weird things in there or, you know, whatever. But it's such a great movie. You can watch it alone.

Don't listen to TikTok. Really? That's what stopped me as well because I was like, I'll need the Bible or something after this. You know what this means? And I'm like – but honestly, it's a great movie. It's a great movie. And what about you?

How's your week been? It's been good. It's been very, very busy, you know, with VD heading off. I think we've been all hands on deck just trying to navigate through that. But it's really fun and I'm so excited to get to do things with you, spend a little bit of time together, chat to our gorgeous guests. I think it's going to be a really fun, exciting time for all of us. And I mean, any excuse to buy cute, tiny baby clothes for somebody.

Sign me up. Absolute dream. I live for it. Totally. I think that kind of takes us into your money wins for the week. Absolutely. You found cheap, cheap, cheap baby clothes? No cheap, cheap baby clothes, but I did have a few really good ones.

Let me run you through them. Okay. Firstly, I've got a money win and very on theme with the baby thing from Kayla, who said, I price checked nappies and found them to be $0.08 per nappy cheaper at Costco. And when I got there, there was also an instant rebate available. I didn't even know that that was a thing, but I love when people check the cost per unit. I feel like that is so smart. Doing God's work.

Absolutely. Next, I've got a money win, also baby themed, from Agnes who said, I've been meaning to buy a new pair of Docs. My feet have changed size since being pregnant as my old ones didn't fit. Platypus had a sale and I purchased a new pair for $180 when it is normally $300. That's very good. Is that a thing, your feet changing size during pregnancy? Oh, I've heard this can happen and I'm terrified because I'm already a 40.

So I really don't want them to be going up a size. And apparently they can stay there once they... Oh no. No, no, no, no. That is so interesting. It's like a second growth spurt. I'm not going to lie, watching VD go through it. VD's like puberty.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. The changes. I don't know that I'm sold if I'm being honest. As far as all sounds. A joy and a miracle for everybody else. Totally, totally. Love it.

Next, I've got a money win from Cass who said, my teacher goal is to not buy from the canteen this year and take my own lunch every day. I found a brand new cute lunchbox in an op shop marked for $2. And then when I went to pay, the volunteer marked my four items down from $24 to $9. So I essentially got the lunchbox for less than a buck. I googled the brand and it sells for anywhere between $25 and $31 normally.

Discounts at the op shop, you love to see it. Love to see it. Didn't even know that was a thing. I know. Next, I've got a money win from Rebecca who said, I bought my first ever ETFs this morning and I've already made 18 cents. And she put a wonderful picture. Oh, amazing.

I think that's the original photo. I think so too. I don't know if Michelle's going to be able to see this, but it's Rebecca Wilson, the Wolf of Wall Street and it's absolutely iconic. Oh my God. So funny. I love it when people put pictures in the thread. It is my absolute favorite thing ever. Oh. The next money win I feel like I have to read because Bec was looking over my shoulder because there is also a picture and it's from Siobhan and she said, money win. I've not purchased coffee at work in the past week. So I saved $7 per coffee. Some days I have three. So that's a huge savings for me. I got this bad

boy and it works a treat and i believe it is a thermos it does look like it could be a thermos or or possibly you know what like i don't know if you had this michelle but like you know your grandparents would always have those like muscle things that like massages like those with the big head on the top oh yeah yeah yeah it's i mean that's what's reminding me of and it was like a little you know i don't know though but yes that's lovely is it sex toy is that the vibe you're getting can you please that's what i'm thinking to the camera so she can see it and especially because when you had it like when you had it hadn't that one oh yeah it looked yeah that's giving before she scrolled before she scrolled it looked like the rabbit you know i was like oh my

god i think it's it's the fact that there's liquid coming out of it as well there's a lot going on But that is a great win, Siobhan. Very pleased for you. And then lastly, I have a money win from Izzy who said, I taught my mum how to use Facebook Marketplace to sell extra furniture she wanted to get rid of and now she's making a little bit of money on the side on some great quality items that otherwise would have gone out

to her curb for someone to pick up for free. Amazing. Yay for teaching mum technology. And now we've decided that anyone that comes on the show, because you're so involved in the community, we would love to hear from you as well. So, Michelle, do you have a money win or a money loss to share with us this week? I've got a sad money loss. So I bought something online the other week

and as I was purchasing it, I thought, I don't know if this is going to work, but I must return it if it doesn't. And it didn't work. I actually got a bump, one of those bump suit dresses and I was like, so keen, you know, I get to wear a bump suit now I'm getting a bump. And it was not for me at all. And then, you know, when it just gets away from you, time and you print the label and it's all feeling like a chore you just don't want to do and then I forgot that it was a long weekend in the US and now I've missed the deadline and so I may as well have just flushed you know $150 down the toilet so that was a bit sad do you reckon you can just chuck it in the post and just hope that nobody notices I've done that before like I've missed it by well especially with the long

weekend if you if like if they question it just say oh I popped it in a post box on Sunday and they must have just had a backlog from the weekend you know I don't even know if we have post boxes in america i feel like the postage system here is very dated i've never seen a post oh my gosh you haven't seen a post sack they have sacks around yeah that's crazy i don't know anyway that's my loss just a bit of laziness there oh no yeah do you reckon you could sell it for a similar price i could but i'm also lazy in that regard that's a lot of yeah sure I used to be better at that sort of thing and like eBay and Depop, but yeah, no, I think it's gone. No, it's hard, especially when you're hauling around a whole extra human to do all your tasks

as well. I feel like that makes everything 10 times more of a chore than normal. Totally. You know, when I do things like that, sometimes I try and think like, oh, let's pretend that this coffee instead of $6 was $7. And I just add, like delegate those funds to other things and pretend in my mind that they were more expensive. you know what I mean? So let's pretend your jumper was way more expensive than, you know, you know, does that make, does it make you feel better? Or does that make? Or maybe I'll buy something on sale next week and I'll say, yeah, exactly. Girl math, a bit of it. You've saved the money.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, Bec, have you got any broke tips to share with us this week? I do. I have one from the community and one from myself. And then I believe Michelle has one of her own. I'll start with the community broke tip. This one comes from Xavier who says an exercise in reframing. So go to the supermarket, set yourself a ready, steady cook style challenge of cooking with only four ingredients. Ideally, those four ingredients that are on special. That doesn't have to be the case, but I think this is a really good idea. Just kind of like making it obviously like not to like trivialize or like, you know, speak about someone's really, really

genuinely hard money circumstance or something that can be turned into fun because it absolutely can't it sometimes is really bad and you know I'm not trying to you know do that at all but if you are just trying to save money or if you are just a little bit broke and waiting for your next payday and it's not so bad then this is a really fun way to kind of just like I don't know just yeah just reframe it you know be like you know what this week I'm gonna yeah make a you know do a challenge for myself buy things that are either only on special or make recipes that to only three or four ingredients or only use what's in my house. Like kind of like, you know, setting yourself fun challenges in that way.

Gamifying it is a really good trick for people with ADHD. That's how a lot of people manage to keep themselves on track is like by turning those mundane everyday tasks. So maybe if you just don't even like cooking, that could be a good way to get yourself into cooking is gamify it a little bit. I like that. Ready, steady, cook. Act like a co-host.

Totally. Get a little microphone out, set a timer, off you go. And then you could judge your own food with a little like, you know, what are the capsicum and tomato sign? Yes, I think that was it. My broke tip for this week, this is kind of like something I used to do. I want to kind of do this more, but I bought a $7 French press from Kmart and a $2 stick milk frother.

You guys know those like little, I guess like a milkshake frother as well. The whizzy ones, right? The whizzy ones, yeah. And I would just, instead of going out and buying coffee, I would just make myself coffee at home, which seems like a really, really easy like commonsensical sort of way to save money i totally get that but when you really think about it like you don't have to spend heaps of money on like a coffee machine or a really expensive milk frother literally seven dollar french press two dollar milk frother and that'll

i don't know that'll get you far i think it came from because i would spend like six dollars per day at least on coffee that's like a day's worth of coffee to buy your setup pretty much exactly and then what do you spend like two dollars on oat milk or whatever you buy maybe seven dollars for coffee, that'll last you like two, three weeks. So, so, so, so much cheaper than buying coffee out. So do try. This is also kind of like reframing, which will lead me into Michelle's one. Telling yourself these little challenges and it might be fun. I love that. Michelle, please feel free to share your one. There is a theme because mine is a little bit of a reframe as well. So I was reading an article the other day and it said that 39% of working Americans have a side hustle.

I have two side hustles I make money on my own app sunroom and then I write a monthly column for the smh and the age and I've started just putting the money from those two side hustles into a separate bank account that I just don't look at and I feel like it's this bonus money that just exists over there and I think with the rising cost of living I think side hustles are just going to become more and more common but I think we often think about a side hustle as like you're starting some second business on the side and it needs to then become your dominant form of income. But really a side hustle can just be about optimizing something that you're already doing or something that you really enjoy and finding a way to monetize that. Like if you are

creating content on the internet and putting it out there for free, use a monetization platform. If you are really opinionated and love writing, start a sub stack and look at a way to monetize a newsletter. Depop, if you're really into clothes, freelancing, there's so many platforms that now exist that will allow people to become virtual assistants and these sorts of things. And it doesn't need to take up a huge amount of your time. Like I would say about three hours a week of mine is put into these side hustles. So I think a side hustle, not seeming like some daunting big thing is another good way to maybe just like dip your toe in the water and start to look for ways where you can bring in even an extra $300 a month or $500 a month that could really make

a difference in today's society. Oh my God, I completely agree. I love a side hustle. The listeners know and anyone who follows me on TikTok would know I did a thousand dollar challenge just at the end of last year. I needed a little bit of extra cash to get to the savings goal that I had for my house deposit. And I made a grand in two weeks and it was nothing strenuous. It was just selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace, selling stuff on Depop. I picked up a few social media jobs online. I did surveys. I tested like a million different things. Yeah. Which I know is very controversial, but it worked for me for that short time period. And I was just like that little sprint of a couple of weeks for a thousand dollars is a lot of money. And it was just by

picking up all these little bits and pieces. And as you said, it's just it was a supplementary for me. It was I need to hit this goal. I have this thing that I really want to do. How do I get there. And it was perfect. It's kind of, again, going back to that idea of gamifying. Wow, we're really all on the same page today. We're all vibing hard. I love it. Let's go to a really quick break. And when we come back, we're going to be answering a juicy money question, which is all about taking a pay cut to work for a company that will give you great opportunities in the future. And also unpack a DM about prioritizing your finances or choosing to have kids. Don't go anywhere.

Welcome back, everyone. Here's our Money Dilemma for this week. Hi there. Have you got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The She's on the Money team is here to help. Every week, we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money, career and life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording and you might just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to this week's Money Dilemma. Hey team, I was hoping you'd be able to help me with a career question. I currently am in a really well-paying job. However, I feel as though I have outgrown it and I'm looking to move on to another company. However, as I have been looking for jobs,

I've realized that the skills I have are more equal to lower paying jobs at other companies. My question is, do you think it's worth taking a step back, not only in my pay, but in my career to go to a company that will hopefully provide me with better opportunities in the future. I'm really struggling with the cost of living at the moment. So taking a pay cut is not something I'm super keen about. Makes a lot of sense. I'm super interested to get your thoughts because when I think of successful women, Michelle, you are someone that is like right at the top of my mind. And I think that you've done so many incredible things. And when we look at your career externally, it just looks like you've been at the top of your game for so long.

But would you do something like that? Would you take a pay cut to move for opportunity or would you prioritize something different? I mean, firstly, thank you. And I think like this isn't about me, but it might be a good anecdote because just you saying, you know, it looks like I've been at the top of my game. When I made the decision to start my own business, I put myself on a $55,000 salary. You know, I went from earning hundreds of thousands and I'm so lucky to have been able to pay myself from the start. Many people cannot, but going from something quite big, really stable, really comfortable to something from the ground up did really feel like a backward step. So I think when you are, you know, it was a, it was short

term pain, long-term gain type thing. But even now I'm not on a huge salary. I think people would probably assume it's, it's bigger than it is. I pay myself today, 125,000. And that's why I have these side hustles and I do other things. And I think it's good to work for a founder that's hungry and trying to make a dollar as well. I think when you're making these decisions, there's many things to consider, but I do think you have to also check your ego a little bit, check your pride, going backwards or what feels like a sidestep, usually setting yourself up for a much greater leap further down the track. And I also think it comes down to what you value and what your priorities are. Like if you feel like you've outgrown the role, maybe you value a

challenge and learning opportunities more than you do the money. And I think this person's in a great position because they're in a high paying role at the moment. And it doesn't sound like they desperately need to get out the door at this very second. So I think they could start to save in preparation for maybe taking a smaller salary. I think they also need to have the conversations internally at their current workplace. Like, is there truly no more opportunity for career growth or challenges or promotion and things like that? And I also would be interested to know how they're assessing that their current skills aren't going to get them the same amount of money elsewhere. Have they definitely done the interviews? Have they sold themselves? Because what someone will

choose to pay you or can pay you does end up being based on more than just the skills you have. It's the potential that someone sees in you. It's your results. So if you've really dug into what you've been able to bring to the table in your previous role. So I would also recommend to this person, don't take yourself out of the game before it's even started. There is an opportunity for you to negotiate your way in and you might be surprised. You're on X salary already with your current skills so I would feel like you could use that as some bargaining power as well but I'm the kind of person where if I'm not feeling challenged or if I'm not feeling growth I will leave and I will be okay to go backwards or go sideways and take less money if I feel like

it's going to get myself further in the future but I also think like as women we know that we can hold ourselves back in that regard as well. And, you know, it's proven that men will put themselves forward for jobs they're not even qualified for with the skills. So don't like over, overanalyze as well, like give yourself a shot. And also, sorry, I'm really going on here, but how they said that they wanted to make sure, you know, they were taking that smaller salary for further career opportunities, like make sure you know exactly what those opportunities look like and is there a way you can negotiate a pay review in six months because you back yourself to do a b and c in six months and like get that in writing that is awesome advice it sounds a lot

like your ladder theory yes that's so true i always say it's better to start at the bottom of a ladder that you want to climb rather than halfway up one you don't want to climb you know what i mean oh absolutely i love that yeah thank you that's like one of my favorite things you've said on the show in like ages. It really like stuck in my brain. Oh my goodness. That's actually huge for me to hear. Thank you so much. Well, there is risk of me butchering that entirely, but basically I think also like once that kind of mindset sets in and you're a little bit like disenchanted or just like lacking motivation, it's very hard to like get out of that regardless of, you know, having chats with your, I mean, it can happen. You can have a chat with your leader and

find out that there's, you know, a way to upskill or move to a different department or whatever it is within your current company. But I think once that feeling sets in, even if you decide to stay there and just maybe try and change your mindset or whatever, that honestly doesn't last long. That feeling keeps coming back. So I feel like if you do know exactly as you're saying that there are opportunities somewhere else and there's potential for growth, potential for upskilling, potential for all these things, just, you know, a bit of a pay cut, might be a little one, might be a big one. I probably personally would go for that over because it's also, yeah, it's also just like your overall morale and motivation and things like that you need to consider. So

yeah, I'd probably go for it. Have either of you taken a pay cut for a job, a new job opportunity? I think I did early in my career. I've lived a lot of career lives. Like I'm one of those people who I think like did start in one space. I didn't go to university. I just worked full time out of high school. I was working retail. I was managing a retail store and I, you know, have lived many a life and done many a job changing and jumping and sidestepping and upskilling to get to where I am now. And I think that, yeah, I would agree. When I first moved from retail to my first, what I call my big girl job, which was I worked at a real estate agency as an EA. I took a little bit of a pay cut, I'm pretty sure, because I'd never worked in my job. And it's interesting

because my experience in that negotiation, that conversation was kind of mirroring what you were saying, Michelle, in that, you know, I had a lot of the skills that transferred. I had a lot of the things that I could do. But I remember when I was having those conversations around salary and don't get me wrong, it was still a very low salary because I was 21 and I was entering the professional workforce for the first time. But the conversation that was kind of brought to me was that because I didn't have demonstrated experience in that field because it was a different field they felt that I should be coming in at the bottom of the salary band and at the time I think I just kind of went okay yeah like it's worth it to to get to where I want to go like if you take a little bit of a

pay cut you take a little bit of a pay cut and it wasn't huge because the money just generally was low it was close to minimum wage you know there wasn't that far to go down but I think like for me, it felt worth it to move into a new space. And so I can see if our listener is maybe moving industries or even if they're staying within their industry, but they're moving into a different space. Like maybe you work in administration, but you want to move into administrative management or, you know, something like that. Like if you're moving into a slightly different space and it's worth it to learn the hard skills that you need that you don't have, maybe you've got a lot of soft skills that do transfer but the hard ones aren't quite there I can see how someone doing

the interview might say oh we feel like we just can't give you that higher salary I would say don't forget to negotiate other perks too so if you are taking a lower salary can you work hybrid or can you work remote can you negotiate perks can you do you know a 13 day fortnight or something like that there are all of these other things and we say everything is kind of up for negotiation And I know when you're making that move and especially when you are in the position where you're being asked to take a pay cut, I remember feeling like I was not in the power seat at all because I was almost asking them to do me a favour, it felt like. I was saying, please give me this opportunity. Like, I know that I don't necessarily have the proven track record, but I'm a hard worker and I'm a go-getter and I can do all of these great things for you. And I think you do feel a little bit like the powers with the employer because you're asking them to take a risk on you.

but I think like don't forget to lean on the value that you bring in your personality like being you can't teach somebody to have the personality type that as you were saying Michelle and as you were saying as well to be the kind of person that wants to improve is so valuable in an employee like how many people just coast by doing their job collecting their check you know clocking off never thinking twice about it which if that's what you want to do that I'm not saying that that is a bad thing. But I think if you are somebody who has a company and you want to grow and you want to do all of these great things, what you really need is employees who buy in and you can't teach that to somebody. It needs to come with them. And it is something that money can't buy.

I think that's so true. Yeah. It is like, it's the attitude. And I think it's really, it actually is really easy to stand out as a high achiever and someone who's really committed and someone who's really driven in organizations and show that you're that person who's willing to go the extra mile like even at the end of the day saying hey I'm about to pack up is there anything I can help you with before I go like so many people don't do that and just you doing you doing that like rarely is someone going to be like they're walking out the door I'm going to quickly give them something like that will rarely happen but just you doing that I think just shows that you actually give a shit and like putting your hand up like that, it really goes a long way.

Yeah. Is there any tips that you have for someone who is in that spot? They're going to interview for a job. Maybe they feel like they're sidestepping a little bit. Maybe they feel like they're not in the power seat. Is there one tip that you would give them on something that they could share to showcase their value? So I used to work in HR before I got into startups and I worked at investment banks. And basically the way all salaries were negotiated was based on three things. It was role, experience, output. And I think if you are constantly looking at those three things about yourself, you will have the right sort of things to bring into an interview and to bring into any kind of negotiation about your salary. It also removes any like

personal attachment to the conversation because you're looking at the facts. And to your point about going into real estate and you not having the experience, that's just one of those three things, you know, like how are you going to deliver in the role? Like what output do you have that like might, you know, inspire someone's confidence in you, but also how you then renegotiate your salary a year later, really focusing on like the role, how you fulfill it, the experience that you do have to potentially try and bump up a salary and the output, which is really just results and hard facts. So I guess that's like the three things that I'm kind of always on the lookout for, but I think they're also just the main things you should be focusing

on if you're ever discussing salary. Oh, actually, one really good thing is when you are looking, you're focusing on the role. I used to always gather market data. So if you're in Australia, like go on the Hayes website and for free, you will be able to see similar roles in your state and you'll be able to see what the average salary is. And that's a really good thing to have up your sleeve if you're negotiating your salary. Like, hey, I've actually pulled the market data and I can say that I'm, you know, being underpaid and here's my output and here's my experience. And obviously like businesses are always going to be in different kinds of positions. Like are they downsizing? Have you just missed a performance review cycle? Like you do need

to consider your timing, but I think that's a really like good way to approach and be prepared for those kinds of conversations. It's a great idea. Let's jump into my favorite bit of the week, the juicy DM that we've received. Are you guys ready to hear it? So ready. All right. They said, hey girls, would love some advice. The other night I was at a family dinner and my sister was talking about how having a child has been really tough on their finances. She was saying she can't eat out anymore, can't go on holidays, can't afford a babysitter for date night with her partner. And the list just went on. My mom then pointed the conversation towards me and my partner and asked us when we were planning on having a baby. In response, I said, I don't want to have

kids. I just want lots of money to live the lifestyle I want to live. Slay Queen. My sister was so offended by this comment, saying it was offensive to her lifestyle and insensitive to say this after she had spoken about how much she was struggling financially. I really don't think I did anything wrong. It should be okay for me to choose myself and the lifestyle I desire over having kids, but my sister made me feel like I am selfish for doing this. Any thoughts? there's so many components to this I know there are a lot of layers I feel like there's like you know there's the maybe you know the argument of women having children not having children whatever like I feel like we're in a different time of life now it's 2024 it's 2024 you absolutely

don't have to be having child if you don't want and you can if you want to and you whatever whatever whatever families look all different everywhere you go all the time so this is kind of like a question more so I would say it's less of a finance question and more of a like a reddit am I the arsehole and in this situation no but I would probably maybe have been more tactful and possibly not talk about how rich you want to be directly following your sister maybe airing some grievances about being really broke I don't know I don't know it feels like a yeah maybe it's too close together, those two conversations. You're not bad for saying that. I feel like I am about to in fact be the asshole because I am at the stage in my life where several of my friends

now have children, which I love and adore. I'm a big fan of kids. And when I was younger, I always thought I wanted children. And now I'm at a place where I have my career and my lifestyle and I don't necessarily know that that's something I want to have. And I don't think that's a problem any which way, whether I do, whether I don't, whether my friends do, whether my friends don't, everybody is welcome to live life the way that they want. Something that I have observed that is interesting, though, is I feel like a lot of the time things are catered to the people who have children, just socially, whether it's when you're choosing where to go, it's got to be somewhere that's close to home, that is family friendly, that is da-da-da-da-da, or if you're going on

holiday, like it needs to have certain things for the people who have children, which is all fine and well and good but sometimes that means that there is a different financial element too we might need a house with extra rooms because the kids have to have their own rooms or you know things like that and it's really interesting to me because I think you've chosen to have children and I've at this point don't have children and we're living our own lives and we're doing whatever but there are points where you know there are benefits or there are things that are done in favour, from my perspective, for the people who do have kids. And it's, I mean, if it was an issue, I would raise it and I would bring it up. But it just is a very interesting observation

because I think, yeah, like the benefit of not having kids is you're not paying for a whole extra expensive human being. But when you chose to have children, you knew that that would be the case. I think we spoke on an episode recently about, you know, how expensive pets are and not to liken a child to a pet, but you're taking on a financial responsibility. Like we know there's a lot of data around how much money it takes to raise a child, particularly in the first 12 months of their life. It is just unbelievably expensive. And then you get to school and you kind of know that for at the bare minimum, the next 18 years, you have a significant financial responsibility in that child. And if you've chosen to take that on, I would assume that you understood that that

might mean you know depending on whether or not a parent has gone back to work depending on whether or not you know you have a side hustle or whatever you might miss out on date night or you might not get to go on holiday because of that financial burden that you have chosen to take on you knew that that was coming when you got pregnant and so I think it is a little bit short-sighted of her sister to be really offended I understand how stressful being under financial pressure is and I do not want to minimise what the sister is feeling because I know that that is awful. But I do also think it is a little bit hypocritical of her to be mad because her sister chose to live a different lifestyle.

Sure. Does that make sense? I'm trying to be tactful, I suppose. I don't want to be a dick about it, but I do think that she made a choice and she's now living with the results of that choice. But it is very complicated. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the sister who's had the baby was probably just looking more to feel

validated and supported and get a little bit of empathy in that situation. And then when she didn't receive that, it was probably more of a reaction to that. And it was less about her judging her sister for, you know, choosing to be child free. I don't think that's where like the insensitivity comment came from. I think it's more around that she didn't feel supported in that moment and she probably just needed to hear, yeah, wow, like that must be really hard. Maybe she was hoping someone would put their hand up and say, hey, would love to look after your baby one night a month so you can have that date night. And I also think there's probably a splash of envy in there that her sister who is choosing to be child free will be able to pursue a life that has some

elements that she also feels like she wants but can't have at the moment. And maybe she will have those things further down the path but for now it doesn't feel that way I think one of the things I think we really need to try not to do as a society and it's easier said than done is to make it like an us versus them conversation when it comes to having children or not having children I think there are already so many pressures on and it's always on women like no matter what way you go and that's even once you've made the decision if you want to have children or not have children And like, there's that whole clusterfuck in the middle of like, if, when, how, and I think there's so many ways that society is set up to like pit us against each other.

And so I think when we're having these conversations, when it comes to children, it's like, how can we just be more like supportive, understanding, open-minded, and a little bit more accepting of the paths people have chosen. I also often think about the fact that it's like people assume if you don't have children, you're just automatically rich. And I wonder how that feels when you are someone who's chosen to be child free, but you also can't afford to travel and you also can't afford the date night. So there's just, there's so much to unpack. Like even the mom asking, when are you having kids? Like, let's not ask people those questions. Feels inappropriate. Yeah. Yeah. More like,

is a kid something you've thought about, you know, is that something you want? But yeah, I think these are just deeply personal things that are very, very nuanced. But I think if we can be like less like us versus them and more as a collective women understanding that it's a super high pressure, like societal expectation, like challenging time, no matter what way you go, we could probably understand each other all a little bit better. Yeah. So true.

I love that. We did ask people a couple of really quick questions. Firstly, we said, do you have children? 30% of people said, yes, I do. 70% people have said, no, I do not. Then we said, if yes, have you had to give up holidays, eating out, etc., due to the increased financial costs of having children? 58% of people said yes, and 42% of people said no. Then we said, have you decided not to have children due to the costs associated with being a parent. 20% of people said yes, 46% of people said no, and 34% of people said I'm considering it. So if you combine the yes and the I'm considering it, it's 54% of people are

changing or considering changing their decisions based on the financial costs associated with parenthood. Lastly, we said, if yes, have you felt any judgment from friends and family around this decision and 65% of people said unfortunately yes I have been judged which is crazy which I guess really goes back to what you were saying Michelle going back to my example because I feel like I didn't articulate it well the observations that I've made were just observations I guess about the way that it works but everybody is always so happy to accommodate for the parents and I think that that is the important factor because as you were talking I was like oh I feel like I really sounded like a bit of a bit of jerk then which is not what I intended for I don't

think so at all I I get it like I think the default has always been that this is what's expected you know you you have kids you start a family and the default probably is to accommodate for the people yeah that have kids and like I delayed starting a family for so long and I remember because of my career and I remember feeling like this detachment from my friends that were doing that like that were starting families and I was starting to feel isolated and I wish I'd thought like a little bit more about that at the time but I think I was so in my head of like when if how that I don't think I was very understanding or considerate of them and they probably weren't that understanding or considerate of me either I also think it's so

interesting to think about like our generation I'm not sure how old you guys are I'm 32 and I feel like there'll be so many of us that are never grandparents because I think our children will choose not to have children you know and so I think it's really good for us to be super accepting of people that choose not to have children and understand that there is still so much like worth value like many of them work with children many of them give to children like there's this weird thing where it's like you must hate children yeah but that isn't it at all and I think we all need to get very comfortable with that because like for our parents that expect to be grandparents like they have some ownership on that I don't want to be you know a 50 year old and putting

pressure on my child about when they're gonna have a baby I don't feel like I'm entitled to ever be a grandparent and so I just think it's something we all need to be like reading about engaging in that content supporting our friends who are choosing not to who are choosing to I think all paths are courageous and they require self-awareness and a lot of thought yeah that is such a perfect summary of it and yeah like if everyone just was more accepting and considerate of everybody hopefully everyone would have a better time totally in general i love that what a great episode thank you michelle so much for joining us if people want to keep up with you and everything that you're doing where can they find you oh you can find me on instagram michelle

you can also find my business there sunroom.so and that's basically it my tiktok's good to avoid you're like i i don't want to be there i'm very different over there if you are a creator looking to monetize what you're doing sunroom is an awesome option it's such an incredible supportive community as you were saying of women and non-binary people who are just creating their own safe incredible spaces on the internet which we love to see thank you so much for joining us everybody and victoria will see you bright and early on monday for a money diary have a beautiful weekend bye guys bye the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes

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