She's On The Money - MONEY DIARIES: A leave of absence to find her dream job!

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

This powerhouse community member realised that she was climbing a ladder that was not right for her, so after a leave of absence and some serous soul searching, she redefined that ladder and is scaling amazing new heights!This year our Money Diaries are being brought to you by the legends at Shopback! Check them out at https://app.shopback.com/aus/partner/SOTM and you'll get a cashback bonus when you sign up!The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay our respects to Elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness. She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back. It's another Shop Back Money Diary Monday, where we get to chat to the community, learn about you, your job, your money, your hopes, your dreams, all of the fun things in

between, Victoria. We love to get the juicy deets. We do indeed. And I'm excited about this one. Me too. It's a goodie. Our diarist wrote, I'm an executive who landed in this role by sheer coincidence following a 12-month leave of absence. I took my leave of absence after a near burnout episode where I realized that I'd put myself on a ladder that I didn't want to climb. I always had a story in my head that execs drove Mercedes and had mansions. But throughout my career, I've quickly learned that these sorts of stories actually limit what's possible more than enable it. Deciding to take my leave of absence was truly a play it safe or just take a leap and see what happens next decision where everything on paper was telling me I should say,

but I decided to take the leap. Oh my gosh. I know. Very, very interesting. I have a lot of questions. I never get to hear or read the emails that Jess does. So I'm always like, what's this one about? How does this work? How interesting is that? This is going to be an epic money diary? Hopefully. I'm hoping I can help you guys out. Oh, you totally can. Can we dive straight in? Yeah, go for it. Okay. So first question, tell us a little bit about your money story. My money story. So I grew up in a household where money wasn't spoken about. And I now know as an adult that actually money was used to avoid conflict. So I've never really had a healthy relationship with money. Not until I actually, I guess, became an adult myself. I'm not sure I

classify myself as an adult. I still classify myself what I'm going to be when I grow up. It's a real weird concept, isn't it? People are like, oh my gosh, you're getting married. And I'm like, yes, I feel like a child bride, even though I am 30. Pretty much. I'm not in that same boat, but I am 31. Now I'm just realizing that when kids look up, they're like, oh, she's the adult in the room. That's so strange, isn't it? Yeah, it is. So I grew up fairly naive, didn't really ever speak about money, learn about money until I was in my kind of late 20s. I think I'd always focused on growing income because I had, funnily enough, a cousin at a Christmas event at one point asking me if I was making six figures yet. So that then became my kind of goal in terms of growing my income, which just shows how naive I was. I feel like that's common though. Like this idea of six figures is something that a lot of people go, by X age, I want to be earning six figures. I remember a girlfriend of mine, or actually

my ex-boyfriend's sibling said, yeah, one of my goals is, and this is like going back like 10 years. She was like, yeah, I want to earn a hundred grand before I turn 30. And I was like, oh wow. Okay. Yup. That's a goal. I would like that too. And yeah, it's, it's strange how we pick up on those things hey yeah big time and it's funny because then when you finally get there you realize oh wow particularly in sydney where i live six figures isn't actually a big income because it's sustained a whole lot and then as you learn and kind of more and more at least i was in a position where i started to think about more than just money i was thinking about what does this actually facilitate for me is this what i want am i willing to put in what i need to grow

my income to this sort of level and then I came across a podcast called she's on the money through a girl who was in my team at work she was one of my juniors and we had this thing in our team where every Friday we'd share you know something that would come across that week that we thought was kind of helpful with the team that was part of the kind of culture I was trying to build she shared the podcast and I had this really weird moment where I was like hang on I should probably know more about this than what I do as the leader in the team that was always a story that I told myself that kind of the leader had this shit down pat essentially but I didn't so I just stayed very quiet I I learned I had some very kind of open transparent conversations with people that I had

kind of developed trust with and then from there started to I guess refocus my energy on growing wealth over just growing income oh my gosh how cool it's cool in hindsight look it's cool in hindsight at the time I feel like that is quite relatable in a way I guess I'm a boss of people and manage people and sometimes I feel like they look at me and go oh she must have her her stuff together so well and when I get asked a question I'm like oh I don't do that am I meant to do that like you feel a bit more pressure because you're like I'm the person they look up to surely surely I should have it together is that a bit of what you were going through a little bit yeah I mean I was quite privileged that I'm a psychologist by trade. I actually took the route that I think

you narrowly avoided. I'm currently doing my org psych. Oh, I'm lucky. I'm lucky. Oh my gosh. I'm so envious. I still, I, I would love to go back and do org psych, but the barriers to that industry are so hard to get through that I'm like, oh, I can't take on that in addition. I'd love to one day call myself an organisational psychologist. Oh, that would be delightful. That is a goal that I will achieve come November. Oh my gosh, congratulations. That leads so perfectly into the next question. Money Dice, what do you do for work? How much money do you earn? So I am a psychologist by trade, but I work in a family office, which is a particular type of investment management looking after a business portfolio of a high net wealth individual,

which is quite ironic given how naive I was about money until a couple of years ago. So I help him look at each of his businesses and figure out how we can use behaviour to drive high performance. So I apply my understanding of humans and how we operate in the workplace to help him make sure that his businesses are performing and that they're places that people actually want to work, which is great. How does it feel to be living my dream? it feels pretty good i kind of i lucked into this role so i post-study fell into consulting and actually ended up on the corporate ladder in a global consulting firm loved all the people components loved the like true consulting components where you genuinely got to partner

with people to solve problems really hated the kind of money-making nature of consulting so get in spread your tentacles try and make yourself stick yeah and I find myself like so fortunate to be in this role where I actually get to be a consultant day in day out and do I guess what I've been trained to do it's not often these opportunities come about so I feel very grateful that's quite literally the dream and I don't mean for everybody I mean on the pathway that you were on I also was in consulting and I'd always look at like BCG and be like oh my gosh like that's the goal, that's the dream. And then you're like, oh, this isn't really my vibe. Like, I don't understand. Like, oh my gosh, if I had your opportunity, there's no way She's On The Money

would have existed. I would have thrived. That sounds so exciting. I have so many questions for you offline, but money diarist, how much do you earn? So I make substantially less right now than what I have done in years gone by in consulting. So at the moment I'm on a base of 185. I've got a couple of benefits wrapped around that but a large part of the reason why I took my role at the salary that I did was because of the people that I would get to work with I was after an environment where I'd be kind of pushed and respected more so than an environment where I'd earn big bucks even though what I technically did learn is quite big bucks comparative to that I was about to be like 185 okay sit down what were you earning yeah we want to know what were

you earning when you were doing consulting spill that beans yeah so I was on 210 base but I also had various kind of plans in place that included shares and a bit of equity so actually taking a leave of absence and making the decision not to return and to take on my new role I had I lost 60 grand flip of shares but it was you know a decision where I had to prioritize I guess my energy and my longevity over my immediate earning potential over the kind of two years that those shares would take to best. I feel like you were really glowy and no one else can see this because it's a podcast, but like you were really glowy when you were explaining how you loved your job to us. I feel like you made the absolute right decision. Like I would, oh, I just feel like

you're in the right space for you at the moment. Like it's so obvious. I love that for you. money diarist speaking of money what is your big money goal my big money goal is to actually have a goal cute i like it yeah i am fortunate enough to have bought my very first property in the last two years congrats sydney yeah which is exciting i have a partner who makes as much as what i do who isn't so good with money so we keep our finances separate which limits what i can do comparative to potentially other women who are kind of in my age bracket in a similar relationship type situation to me so my goal is to using this as an opportunity to get more comfortable with talking about money and bringing that I guess to the forefront of my relationship we've kept

everything intentionally separate which has made it really easy but we're now at a point where we need to change that so yeah that is such a pivotal part of a relationship as well where you're like oh we kind of should do this hey and then you do you get forced into money conversations that often make you feel a little bit uncomfortable, but it doesn't have to be uncomfortable, I promise. We're going to ask you about that after the break though. I want to know right now, do you have any investments, my friend? I do. So I was fortunate enough in my previous role to be given shares. So at the end of every performance year, they would reward kind of certain achievements. And I always took the option to take the reward in terms of shares

rather than as a cash payment because I knew that would be smart what I didn't know at the time was that they were essentially slapping on golden handcuffs and therefore when I went to leave I it made it a bigger decision than it probably needed to be but now that I head up HR for a company I know exactly why they did it because I do it as well essentially so I have a sizable amount of shares but my portfolio is not diverse the other thing that I have in the portfolio is a property. So that's the house that I live in. And I think a logical goal for me would be to try and add an additional one, which I think I just need to get better at talking about to actually set in stone. That's so exciting. I love that you've done this and you're a young woman just

going, you know what, have a partner. I'm still going to do it on my own. I've got all of the, it's just so cool to see women who are thriving. I love it. Doing my best. Next question. My friend, do you have any debts? I don't. The one money tip I did pick up from my family was don't ever get a credit card. If you can't afford something now, you can't afford it at all. The only place to break that rule is when you buy property or when you go to uni. So I broke that rule to go to uni. I've now, because of the amount that I make, paid off my HECS debt, which was sizable. Yeah, should be gone really quick at your income level. See ya. But it also hung around for a very long time. So doing an undergrad and then an honours and

than a master's. Girl, I feel you. Yeah. For those listening along at home, I still have a six-figure hex debt. Bye. Mine was six figures, but now that is gone, which is fantastic. I have a mortgage, but I consider that like good debt as opposed to bad debt. Oh, good. Yeah. I don't have credit card. I don't use any of those sorts of services. I will probably need one at some point because I'll end up with a company card, personal liability attached to it. I'm trying to avoid that for as long as I can. It's just kind of forces me to make good decisions essentially. Yeah. How exciting. Next question. She makes probably too many good decisions to be an online shopper, Jess. Do you use Shopback? I don't. I don't understand it.

I'm really like, I'm frugal and I'm practical. So you need Shopback. What are you doing? That's one of the most honest responses. I love that. Do you not understand why you would use it or do you not understand how it works? I honestly don't understand how it works. So I tend to, when I'm buying fashion, use cash because it really makes me consider cost per wear and weather. Yeah. Can't use it with cash. Sorry. Yeah. I'm really willing to like make that decision. That was just a budgeting tip that I picked up in my teens that I've kind of held on to. Yeah. It forces good behaviors. Makes the transaction a little bit more painful. So you really think about whether you want that jumper or not. Exactly. But it also makes me very naive

when it comes to different things that I could actually be using that would save me money. I feel like that's really common, but it's essentially, it's an app, but it's also an extension. I never used the app in the way that everybody else was using it because I was like, I don't want to have to go shopping through an app. But I added the extension to my browser on the computer. And now whenever I'm at checkout, it literally pops up and says, hey if you you know add your shop back to this you'll get a percentage back and it's essentially a referral that shop back get for you shopping on that website and then they share that referral with you which I think is pretty cool because sometimes they have really good cash back rewards

on things yeah sometimes they do like 20% on places like the iconic and stuff because they carry a lot of brands which I think is probably the other thing paying cash you miss out on is the ability to shop different places for the best deal unless you're going store to store so I mean shop back definitely doesn't work you're paying cash the sad thing is but if you ever online shop definitely worth it okay fabulous yeah and it's not like I'm saying go shopping and just use it because it makes shopping reasonable it's I think it's just so cool to save additional money on things you were already going to buy anyway and you're getting the best deal and you're also getting money back like we love that anyway yeah and thank you for

explaining it because I understand business models I understand deal flow so now I get it That's great. Now you understand shop back as well. Yeah. Like literally they get paid a referral. They share the referral with you. I'm like, oh, this is much more simple than I thought it was going to be. I thought it was some big complex model when I first heard about it. And then I was like, oh, that's really easy. That makes sense. I love it when it makes sense. Money Diaries, was your best money habit paying for things in cash? If not, I want to know what your best money habit is. I think my best money habit is being frugal. So I am quite happy to rock up to a board meeting

with ridiculously high net wealth people wearing a top that's from Kmart. Oh my gosh, me too. Yes. I do splash occasionally, but I don't think that you need to kind of, I guess, think rich to be more about kind of what you bring into the room in terms of kind of impact and value. I mean, that's a mindset thing. That's so good. That's good money habits. Yeah. Your impact and value doesn't rely on how much you earn.

I really, really like that. Oh, my gosh. I mean, you still have to take care of yourself and you still, like, you know, need to look the part in these rooms. But you can do that affordably. Of course. Yeah, I wouldn't wait on boots to work or anything like that. You've kind of got to dress for your day, but I don't think that you need to try and

match other people who are in, you know, significantly different situations. How did you get there? How did you get to that mindset, especially in the space that you're working in? when I started in consulting, one of the first things I did was go and spend more than a thousand dollars at Saba. And I couldn't afford that at the time, or I shouldn't have been spending that at the time, but I was really like, oh my gosh, I'm going to really need like some crisp suits. I want to fit in like everybody else was so well-dressed and was carrying Prada handbags. And I was just like, oh my God, like, I don't go here. How did you get to that level of mindset?

I was really lucky. Quite early on in my corporate career, I started working really closely with a woman who is incredible. She headed up Human Capital for a huge consulting firm. She was the type of woman who had a beautiful house in Mosman and wore kind of Chanel necklaces every single day and had a handbag that was worth more than my car. And one day I complimented her on her handbag and she's like, oh, it's really cheap. I got it on sale at a warehouse in the US while I was traveling at some point and I think that moment really kind of I guess opened my eyes to the fact that even people in those sorts of situations do have to make certain you know decisions to be in the situations that they're in so from that point forward I always questioned

whether I genuinely needed to do something or whether it was just reinforcing a story that I was telling myself and I guess as a psych I'm quite privileged because I tend to think about those sorts of things, more so than the average folk. But yeah, that is one of the moments for me that made me really question it. How cool is that? For you, that seemed to be some kind of like core memory that has shaped the way that you now interact with the world. And to her, it was probably a flippant comment that she's like, oh, thanks, girl. Like I got it on sale. She would have no idea. How cool is it that everybody's experience of the same event can be so wildly different. So cool to flip that. We've spoken about good money habits and I love that yours

is being frugal. I think we can all take a leaf out of that book. We need to find out your dirty, dirty laundry. What is your worst money habit? Probably avoidance. So for a long while when I was focused on growing my income, I avoided life admin to do with my finances, which I think help me back because I was focused on growing my income I was always comfortable so I never really had to face the consequences of going back and not doing those things but now that I know more about money and what it can unlock I kind of have a bit of regret around not acting sooner and I do still have a bit of that avoidance it's easier to have your head in the sand yeah exactly to go out for dinner and have a really nice dinner that I can enjoy because

it fits within my budget but not really think about well actually I probably should have been sitting down at home instead no no no no you deserve the dinner we make sure that that's in the budget because it's about the journey not the destination my friend yes but when there's too much distraction and it actually you know gets in the way of of good progress that's a problem I'm at a point where I probably should see a financial advisor and it's been on my list for three years and it's one of those items because it's a me thing and I tend to prioritize other people it goes on the to-do list from one year to the next to the next so that's probably my worst I know a guy probably my worst money habit is avoidance all right to wrap up this part of the show

money diarist I want to know what grade would you give your money habits if we forced you to give yourself a grade I would probably give myself like a b plus trending towards an a minus I feel like I'm that kid in primary school where the teacher writes the report card that says such and such could be so amazing if only they applied themselves. Did you pick up my report card? Did my mum give you my report card? Does it say right under that she also talks too much in class and distracts all the other kids? Yeah, I'm not a psych that prescribes to psychometrics. I actually really hate them. And I know that there's absolutely no science behind A-types, but I feel like, you know, we all know someone that had that report card and they all tend to be in

similar life situations when they reach certain milestones. And that's definitely me. I need to, yeah, just knuckle down. So none of us have ever had an original experience in our lives. Awesome. Let's go to a break. And when we get back, I have a lot of questions for you. Money Diarist, I want to get a little bit personal and ask about your relationship and how you're talking about money in your relationship, because before you mentioned, you have an income that's basically double what your partner's is. You don't share income and you said that your partner doesn't have as stable money habits as you do. How are you negotiating that? What does that look like moving forward? If anything, it's kind of taking the mindset that I project in a kind of

work environment and trying to bring that into my relationship in a really healthy way. So I had a very open conversation with my partner quite early on in the piece about money, what my kind of mindset was around that, the fact that I can be a little bit avoidant. We kind of spoke about how it was used to manage conflict in my family and how I don't want to establish those sorts of behaviours. And my partner was really open about his financial situation, why he was in the position that he was in, what he was willing to work on and what was just a no-go zone. We probably need to readdress that at some point. That was quite a while ago. But since then, we decided to actually keep everything separate except for our mortgage. So I've bought our place. My partner is buying in

as he helps me pay off the mortgage. So we drew up a really rough and ready agreement between us to make sure it was all above board. But we keep absolutely everything separate, everything 50-50, regardless of our financial situations, except for the mortgage, which he is buying into over time as he helps me kind of pay it down. So I'm kind of using that, I guess, to help him a little bit, but also very much protect myself, which feels wrong most days, but I know that it's the kind of smart thing to do. It's funny you say that because we did an episode actually not too long ago on managing finances on different incomes because it's something we've seen mentioned in our Facebook group a few times. And it's interesting that you say it feels a bit bad

because there is that icky feeling where you don't want to be like, well, I'm better than you because I earn more. And that's absolutely not the case. But I think it's important to think about and something I say all the time is prepare for the worst, but expect the best because you hate to be in a situation where something did go wrong. And you're like, oh my gosh, if only I'd put that agreement in place to protect myself. Once it's too late, it's too late and you can't do it. So I think it's really healthy that you have had that conversation and that it's in your mind that you want to revisit that because yeah, you should, God forbid something go wrong. You have to look after you because nobody else will. Exactly. Exactly. I moved out of home when I was 16 and

have been kind of paying my way since then. So I've always had a bit of a hard line on looking after myself before everybody else. That was ingrained from then. Yeah. I really like that. I want to ask about your leave of absence because that is something else that we see a lot in our group. And the conversations that we often see are women who are in roles and more often than not, they are high pressure roles. And the thing that people usually say is, you know, I'm earning a lot of money or I have really great benefits or I have this set up, but I'm feeling burnt out or, but the culture is really poor. How do I decide whether or not I walk away from that? And it sounds like that is exactly what

you did. You had this great, high-paying job that on paper people would undoubtedly kill for, but ultimately you decided to walk away. How did you come to that decision? How did you reconcile, I guess, that change in lifestyle? And is there anything that people should consider now that you can look at it from the perspective of hindsight? Okay, there's a couple of things to this. The very first question I had to ask myself is, will I actually come back? So I was approaching burnout and I had to ask myself the really honest question, do I just need to step away for a moment or do I actually need a fresh start? And stepping away for a moment is an LOA. Stepping away forever for a fresh start is a very different kind of conversation altogether. When I kind of put it

all down on paper, I realized that there were some components about my job that I really, really loved and about the life that it afforded me that I really really loved and I wasn't ready to step away from that completely what I did need though was a bit of time and space to figure out what actually gave me energy and what sucked it which sounds really funny but when you're on the wheel on the corporate ladder it can be really difficult to actually take the time to think about these things and it does take time to think about these things a mental health day here or there really isn't going to help you figure out you know what gives you energy in life it might fill your bucket a little bit but it's not going to help you figure out whether you're putting these in

the right buckets so I answered that question and decided that I needed to step away just for a period I wasn't ready to let go completely the next question I had to ask myself was do you have enough cash or cash flow to support yourself at the time I was looking at buying property because I was in a situation that actually afforded that and I realized that that goal might be impacted by taking unpaid leave because most leave of absences are unpaid. I really envy people that do get the opportunity to take a paid leave of absence. It just seems like a fairy tale. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Who gets that? No one. Honestly, where are these bosses that run their businesses with that much fat anyway? I want to

go hang out with them. I can do some really cool things. So I had to ask myself, like, do I have enough cash in the bank and have a really kind of good look at myself to figure out whether I was you know living a lifestyle that I was happy with and whether taking I guess a bit of a hit on the cash front would impact that in a way that would impact my energy more than you know I might potentially get back from taking a leave of absence the next question kind of once I'd sorted that out that I needed to ask myself was that can I do this in a way that isn't going to close the door or burn a bridge when you're in a corporate environment there's generally at least in the consulting world there's very clear career and progression frameworks and

most of it is based on kind of you know value that you create for the business and achieving certain milestones but some of it is genuinely timing so i had to think about the impact to my next career progression step and whether i was willing to kind of i guess negotiate um and kind of throw caution to the wind that's the only way i can really put it or can i actually time this in a way that's going to leave the door open so that I can then return and kind of step back into a similar position or at least just back a little bit you know completely back at the start so I had to sort through that which involved talking to a lot of people really understanding the business how it was growing who could take over certain things that I was responsible for really starting

to actually enable those people to step into those roles even before I kind of broached the conversation about an LOA and then the last question I actually had to ask myself was what oh, I actually want to get out of the year because if I'm going to take that period away, I need to be sure that it's actually going to achieve what I need it to achieve because it was a big decision. It was a big financial hit. So I had to, I guess, ask those four questions, which are not like, I mean, one of them is money related, but most of them were more about, I guess, life and how I wanted to live it and money I need to be able to service that. Was that leave of absence, so it was 12 months you were originally going to take?

Yes. And then you ultimately decided to walk away, right? Correct. Yeah. So we've got eight months in and I got introduced to someone just by sheer coincidence, which then started a little bit of work that I could use to get a bit of cash flow going, which then just kind of turned into a broader conversation. So I made the really difficult decision, even though I did actually genuinely want to return

when I left to leave. Wow. So what did you do for those eight months? Like, what do you do on a leave of absence? I feel like so many people say look I took it you know I wanted to spend more time with my kids and my family and you're not in that situation where you have kids so what were you doing with your time to find your feet and I guess recover from being almost burnt out oh I would love to say that I had like a big trip planned and I had all these amazing plans you know buy a van and take

off for an Australia but honestly once everything was locked and loaded and I'd finally like made the decision orchestrated everything to be able to close the laptop and not be able to open it again for 12 months I sat on my couch on that Monday going what the hell am I going to do with my time and I got I guess really into exercise I did actually jump on a plane back to Tassie where I'm from to spend some time with my family I then spent a lot of my time talking to different people so I needed to figure out how to fill my bucket where my energy was coming from how I was going to supplement that what was going to deplete from it so I spoke to a lot of people I reached out basically in secret of mentorship and through that landed some very very casual work which

required me to set up my own business so I could operate as a sole trader so that kept me busy for a little bit setting that up that's quite a kind of learning I involved a number of sessions with an accountant and all of the kind of admin that comes with it as well as actually nurturing a relationship to make sure that it then results in work. So I did that, did some work and then kind of repeated that process until I ended up meeting the guy that I now work for today. How cool. That's a journey and such an interesting one. One from my personal perspective, obviously, because we have very similar backgrounds and now both work or I don't anymore. I don't think I can say I work in the ultra high net wealth space anymore purely because I've like

moved more into podcasting. Still have rich, rich clients though. Does that count? But I just feel like that makes so much sense. Like the burnout, the stress, the pressure, it all makes so much sense. But you mentioned before, and I know that Jess and Annalisa are probably trying to wrap me up, but you mentioned before you left home at 16. How did you financially support yourself during that to then come out as this awesome human who has this epic job and is basically killing it at life like how did that happen I worked at a deli in a local IGA so I'd love to say look it was all kind of hard work and careful planning it was literally just went out tried to earn some cash I worked crazy hours I studied really really hard I knew that education would be a ticket to a

better life so I yeah paved my way buckled down started uni started training as a psychologist realize partway through a they don't make very much money and b it's a very very high pressure job that requires a very special sort of person oh my god you are me not yeah I worked in a um in a residential mental health facility it was actually amazing because at the time I was hard on money they actually paid me to sleep on site so that I could be around for people who needed support at all different hours it was a recipe for burnout in hindsight but at the time I was like this is the best you mean you're going to pay me to like be here it's like the dream for someone who needs to support themselves and is kind of studying full-time in that sort of space

so I did that for a while and then realized that it just wasn't something that I could build a life around yeah I looked for a job and landed a random role in hospitality working for a guy who was an ex-consultant and the way that he ran his restaurant was just like top-notch everything was really slick. And I ended up in conversation with him about what was happening in my other job and he said, oh, you'd be pretty good at consulting. You should look into Orc Psych and kind of made the switch from there. Yeah. I love that. And I feel like that's how I got into it as well. Like quite literally went and did a child psych placement, was there two weeks. And I was like, this ain't my jam. I cannot do this. This takes such a special person. And like

there's obviously so much more to that story. And I freaked out and had a meeting with somebody that I really looked up to and they're like why don't you do org psych and I'm like what what's that and they're like it's like the science of people at work I was like what I can do that and it just made so much sense I feel like you and I have very very similar career journeys there are a lot of people in org psych who have a similar story it's always you know going in with one intention kind of you know finding yourself in a situation where actually people are motivated to make change because it can mean big things for them in life yeah it's a much easier place to work I have so much respect for people that take the hard path I feel like I took the easy path in some cases but

it's still equally as rewarding oh my gosh I have loved this money diary thank you so much but unfortunately I do think that that is all we have time to capture today awesome and don't forget guys the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision and we promise Victoria Devine isn't Authorised Representative of Infocus Securities Australia Pty Ltd, ABN 47097797049, AFSL 236523. See you next Money Diary. Bye.