She's On The Money - MONEY DIARIES: It took three years and $$$ to settle her dad's will

Episode Date: February 13, 2022

It took this money diarist three years to settle her dad's will because it was outdated, a really important message to hear. The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.This year our Money Diaries are being brought to you by the legends at Shopback! Check them out at https://app.shopback.com/aus/partner/SOTM and you'll get a cashback bonus when you sign up!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome to another Shopback Money Diary Monday, where we get to talk to one of our gorgeous community members all about their money story, their challenges, what they're doing, their hopes, their dreams, and we just kind of get all the juicy goss really, don't we Bea? We definitely do. It's a very exciting time. We get to peer behind the curtain a little bit, and I've got a great story for you today. Do you want me to read it out? I am very excited. What have you got for me? So our diarist says,

My parents divorced when I was five, both had different spending habits, and unfortunately, I got mum's side of spending. I moved out of home and interstate at 22, got into a world of personal debt from 22 to 27. My dad passed away three years ago unexpectedly, and his will wasn't up to date, so it was a really long and difficult process for my family. His estate finalized in December, and so recently I received an inheritance. As of six months ago, I got a new job, and I'm now saving on my own, which is really exciting. What a rollercoaster. And we actually spoke very recently about wills and estate planning and all of that. So, I feel like this is a really good and interesting one to talk about kind of as a follow-up to that.

It's crazy because nobody takes wills and estate planning seriously until something really dramatic happens. Money Diarist, I believe you're hanging out with us already. Hello, how are you? Oh my gosh, I'm so good. I feel like this is going to be such an interesting Money Diary and I cannot wait to jump straight in. So, let's do that. Money Diarist, can you tell us a little bit about your money story? I think it's been very complicated. So, when my parents separated when I was five years old, they both met other partners. My dad and his previous wife, well, his next wife, worked in government and for universities and that was quite like supportive and we always had enough and then my mum met someone who uh had three kids of their

own and they had two more together so money was a bit more tight between us with a family of two adults and then ended up being seven children oh my gosh a lot of children yeah so I definitely heard from like a young age that you know they didn't have any money and we were expensive to look after because there was a lot of us and there was times where you know mum's like I've only got $50 in my account for the week so I think there were two very different circumstances but I was always looked after I just think later on in life I didn't really get taught about money habits I started working full-time from when I was 18 and saved up and went overseas on a gap year and then when I came back and had more responsibilities I think that's when I just

didn't have the guidance that I needed, all the knowledge in general, just to be able to look after myself and to not spend more than my means. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to ask so many questions about that. Yeah. And then fast forward a couple of years, I decided that I wanted to move to Sydney from Canberra. I got a job up here. The job wasn't the best paying, but I was just super excited to live outside of home and be on my own. I really wanted to travel but didn't have enough money to so I got out a personal loan and then it kind of just snowballed from there. So, I'm trying to rebuild my relationship with money to have a positive effect on my life and know it's there for me and to support me in the things that I want to do and it's a tool to just enhance my

life. Oh my gosh, I love how you're viewing it now as opposed to how you grew up but I'm going to ask other questions about that later in the show. On to the next question. What do you currently do for work and how much money do you earn? So, I'm a team assistant for a commercial property developer in the city. And as of yesterday, I finished my probation. Well, congrats. Thank you. I'm now on $90,000 a year, including super. Oh, very nice. Yeah. How exciting. And you past probation, that's always such, I feel like we all know how we're going to do on probation, right? Like you kind of know you're doing a good job, but there's still that underlying level of anxiety where you're like, but anything could happen. And so when you pass it, you're like,

yes, like I knew this was coming, but it's such a relief. Especially with COVID as well. It's just one more layer where you're like, what's going on? That is so true. Money Diarist, what is your big money goal at the moment? I'd really like to buy a property this year with my partner. So that's the big goal. We've got a long way to go before we get there. We're not in a super rush, but the goal is to add more savings to our existing savings and then feel comfortable with it. Awesome. Do you currently invest money, Dyrist? Well, I have super, so that's- Yes, queen. Great answer.

Great answer. But other than that, not at the moment. It's something I'd like to do in future, but I think I want to rebuild my relationship with money first. If I can get a house or a property, that would be great. And I think that will be the next step. Yeah, epic. On investment still, talk to me about super.

How much priority do you put on it? How much time have you spent looking at it? Not a lot. I check it every couple of months, I guess maybe like every quarter. and make sure, you know, it's all coming through from work and that's fine. I feel all right with it. I think I could be more involved in it. I think I could utilize the superannuation company more to talk about what I want my

future to look like. And I guess I can't remember what they're called. What are the different types of investments? The portfolios? Yes. I think I could be more involved with what portfolios are available and what would suit me best. oh my gosh that is a really good point that you bring up utilizing the super company like most

super companies have advisors and teams that you can just call 99% of the time for free to be like hey this is a goal of mine am I going to be able to achieve it and they'll be able to let you know and talk you through stuff like that that's what they're there for go get the free advice from your super company I mean obviously take everything with a grain of salt because they can't advise you on whether you should stay with the super company or if you should go or if it's the right um you know the right actual company for you but when it comes to have I got enough money in there like what amount of contribution should I be you know investing to achieve x y and z they'll know all those answers so definitely give them a buzz but I could go on about super forever ask Jess I

actually do in the office the next question for you money diarist is do you currently have any debts? I have a credit card. The limit is $1,500. So, that's more just for me and my partner if we want to go just traveling within Australia and we want to book a hire car and we can put that on there. It's fully paid except for $200 for a dress that I've got for a wedding in two weeks time. Oh, exciting. And I'll pay that off when I get paid next week. So, before when we read out your money story. Obviously, you've been in some debt before. How much debt were you in and how did you get out of it? I think the total number wasn't very nice. I think it was like between a personal loan and a car, it was combined probably about $25,000. So, I got a personal loan in 2017

to essentially fund a trip to go overseas and to help me with paying rent while I was away. And I had also bought a secondhand car on finance six months before that as well. And then I increased it over a couple of years as well. So I kept paying it off and then would increase it. I feel like that's the cycle of debt though. Because you go, oh my gosh, like if something big comes up, like you need to move. Yeah, but you also get into debt and then you rely on it in a way. You're like, okay, cool.

Like I know if something comes up, I can just put it on there and I'll just keep paying it off, right? Like it's not that big of an issue. But what you forget is that it's an issue for future you. And I feel like it's such a cycle. Yeah, 22-year-old me did not care about 27-year-old me at all. She was like, she'll have it together. She'll be fine. Of course she will.

She'll be great. In fact, like, we don't know her. Who's 27-year-old me? Like, we don't care about her. We've never met her. When you're 22, 27 seems so far away. Also, they're such different ages as well. like jess you're 27 now or you just turned 28 july not july yeah 28 this year though 2022 and

yeah okay so we're on track for me to remember my team's birthday dates that's good but do you remember when you were 22 like i remember back to being 22 and it's such a different mindset to 27 100 i was very similar to our diarist in that i was stuck in the debt cycle at that age So I think it's pretty common and it's, yeah, it just happens to everybody when you're younger and you don't have access to that level of education. And we'll probably talk a little bit later, you said about, you know, your mum's spending habits and how that influenced you. Oh, I've got so many questions about that.

Yeah. And so when you've been brought up that way, it's just kind of a way of life really, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like when you talk about ages and you might go, oh, Victoria, but like the difference between being a six-year-old and being a 10-year-old that's massive too but I feel like once you turn 18 19 you get to 22 you genuinely believe that you're like fully adult you're like

I'm an adult like I have my shit together like I'm never going to be more mature than this like you just genuinely feel and like I look back on it I was exactly the same like my priorities were really short term what I was planning I just thought I was so smart and I'm not like it's it's interesting looking back because I think a lot of people listening to this might be 22 and they'll be like, I won't change. Like my priorities won't change. And it's not necessarily even about money, but you would be surprised at how much your mindset can change over that period of time and your values and your priorities. And one day you wake up and you're like, wow, I'd love a new vacuum cleaner. And it just becomes, yeah, it becomes so interesting to

look back on those things do you find that you were a completely different person like 22 year old spending you is not who you are today just really buried my head in the sand just didn't want to think about like future me as well because I obviously didn't have enough to like cover my expenses so I was just like just took it you know my month at a time so when I got to about knocked $23,000, $24,000. I was like, okay, I really need to try and start paying this debt down. And I sold my car and that covered the payment of it. So, that was a great start. So, that knocked about like $10,000 off. And then I had ways to go with the rest of the debt. And my goal was to just keep paying it and then try and increase my salary with working as well.

and I was settling into my career more and I knew I had better opportunities down the line and I just I didn't pay additional but I did prioritize it in a way where I was like okay I'm not missing any payments I'm just going to keep going with it and then I'll get there and then if I get a salary increase you know then I can start paying more of it off I feel like that's such a common mindset yeah I'll just pay it off when I earn more I'll earn more at some point soon she'll be right so I was doing that and then when my dad passed away unexpectedly it was awful and I would have anything bring him back but also at the same time I was like okay well I'm gonna get an inheritance and I can use that to pay it off little did I know that the will wasn't up to

date and it was a really long process for our family so it took just under three years and in that time, I still kept paying off my debt. So, I had gotten most of it down. So, as of like July, I think it was just under like $7,000. And that was when I was about to start my new job and it was a really big salary increase for me. So, I was like, okay, I can definitely pay this off by the end of the year. So, we're kind of all in one that I was like, I know this is coming, but I also now know that I can have the ability to save to be able to pay this off. Oh, how good. So you ended up paying it off all on your own and weren't reliant on like the inheritance to wipe your debt clean. Yeah. Yeah. I still need, uh, my mom and my

stepdad helped me out with some lawyer's fees during the process as well. So I did pay them back. That was always like, when it comes through, this is what you'll be paying back. So I was like, okay, that's fine. So yeah, that's the debt that I paid off with it. So, which wasn't too bad. Yeah, I really like that you got to set the mindset and the habit up of saving and paying off a debt. Because one thing that I do find, and I guess having had experience with a lot of people who have gotten inheritances, because that's actually what I specialize in in my wealth business. A lot of people, if they're in debt, when they receive an inheritance, they wipe it off. That is so great. Like they're not in debt anymore, but they haven't set up these positive

savings habits. So, they either burn through money really quickly or end up in a little bit of a pickle because they don't have that budget and cash flow mindset around what they need to be doing with money. Like they don't prioritize it in the same way that money diarist you might because you go, all right, that was really hard to get out of. Now I have it. I've got to look after it. I never want to do it again. Understandably so. But it's such a different mindset to one of oh well that was wiped off it's not an issue it was never a stress for me like I didn't have to pay it off in a way so I do find it super interesting watching people and their mindsets around inheritances because over the next I think it's over the next 10 years

there's going to be the biggest shift of intergenerational wealth that Australia has ever experienced and it's not nice to talk about but a lot of our listeners a lot of our community are going to be in similar situations to you where a parent is no longer able to be with us and they've got this responsibility and as you've found out that will process it's not an easy one takes a while it does yeah money diarist the next question which is such a pivot from talking about debt and inheritance it's actually about spending uh money diarist do you shop that yes i do oh my gosh what a true she's on the money community member Jess yeah I do love it and uh I think one of the previous money diaries she's like oh I use it for everything if I'm like buying flowers

and I was like oh I didn't know you could like use it other than like online shopping like the iconic and for clothes and things so I've just bought some furniture so I've used it on that oh my god like booking trips away with like the accommodation so uh what I did last year was I just let it build up for the year and then i withdraw it at christmas time and then that funds some of my christmas presents good so that takes a bit of the christmas stress just like it adds up like slowly but you know extra two hundred dollars at christmas time makes all the difference that's a lot of money like that's a fair few presents that are off the list and you don't have to worry about uh jess i have a question for you we were talking about how our money

diarist is now using it for more than just like clothes on the iconic um whose work account uh does your shop back connected to in the she's on the money office jessica richie uh that would be mine because we don't have a she's on the money account and i ain't stupid any opportunity to make an extra dollar i'm all about it um but you did ask i did ask so for those listening along that are like maybe i should put this on my work computer only do that if you have permission otherwise you could find yourself in a whole heap of trouble but we let Jess do it I mean she deserves it right it's like a treat yourself moment it's a good point you make though about like other stuff to online shopping because someone shared with us a couple of weeks ago

on Instagram you can use it on Coles online so if you do your grocery shop you can do like the click and collect if you don't want to pay the extra for delivery which I don't because I'm stingy um you can place your click and click get the shop back and then just pick it up like you would normally, which is pretty cool. That's great. That's a great tip. I didn't know that either. Yeah. Saving money for everybody. You're a genius, Jessica Ricci. All right. Obviously, that's good money habit, but we are now going to ask you, Marnie Durrest, what is your best money habit? I would say I really know what's coming in and out of my account. So, I'm like aware and keep in like, keep in check of like how much money we've got in our account and like what

I've got in my account and this is my expenses that are coming up and I get paid monthly so every month I know like what are the events that I've got on that I'm going to need a little bit extra for and whose birthdays it is but so I just make sure that I've planned all of that out and also buying things on sale so I try really hard especially with clothing and discretionary items to not buy them full price excluding Adore Beauty. We can make an exception there. Yeah we can bend the rules right just a little bit especially for a door like I get it yeah they send you a tim-tam so it's worth it right you do it all for the tim-tam as a fellow organized person I feel like that is a really undervalued skill we don't often hear people say when we ask them this

question oh my best skill or my best hack is that I have visibility and visibility is so important because if you can't see or if you don't know what you've got coming in and going out, I feel like you don't have the foundation to set up those really good habits like paying off your debt or making your savings. I think that's a really, really good answer. Yeah, and it's nice to feel that if some month I've got a lot on and, you know, I've got friends getting married and, you know, those are bigger, expensive and like bigger birthdays with my family that I'm not hurting my – I'm still putting savings aside but

even if it's less like I'm still that's okay like if it's a couple hundred dollars less than I the previous month at least I'm still saving rather than if I never checked I feel like I just be like oh well I've got all these expenses this month so I won't even bother yeah it's a good mindset to have I really like that next question though is the exact opposite money diarist what's your worst money habit a little bit of treat yourself sometimes when you know maybe a couple of weeks ago, I've bought something that I've wanted for a long time. And then on occasion, especially if things are on sale, I'm like, well, that's really good. I really like that. And that's going to serve a good purpose for me. But I probably could wait

another couple of weeks. But I think when things are on sale, I'm like, okay, I'll get it now because I'll be saving this extra money. But that's not the worst thing if it's a super planned purchase, right? Like that's not bad at all. I think in fact, that's a pretty good money habit. I mean, obviously, when it comes to cash flow, it might not be putting you in the best possible position. But if you're like, I'm going to buy this in a few weeks anyway, and it's on sale now, I'm like, that's a money win, is it not? Maybe. Depends how much you lean into the tree yourself, mind. Yeah, it's getting a lot better. Yeah. All right, money diarist. Last question before we go to a bit of a break is, what grade would you give yourself if we forced

you to give your money habits a grade? I would say a B. I've progressed a lot. I made a lot of changes to my mindset, but I think I've got ways to go. I have some big goals with wanting to buy a house and I want to be able to keep saving as well. So, I really only felt like the last six months I've been able to save over the last couple of years. So, I really want to keep those habits for the future so oh I really like that all right I have a whole heap of questions for you after this really quick break all right we are back and money diarist I want to get into it you said that your parents divorced when you're quite young they went their separate ways started their own families and your mum had seven kids in total in the end which would put a financial

squeeze on anybody, right? Like that is a lot of, those are a lot of mouths to feed. How did that work day to day? And as a kid growing up in that situation, like, did you feel pressure? How did that make you feel? So, my mom was with someone from when I was five till I was 12. So, my mother had me and my sister and he had three and then they had two together. So, I definitely felt when I was like 13 even though she had separated from him I just wanted my own money and I wanted to work and just be able to buy things for myself because I know there was a lot of pressure on her so I guess when I was younger I really wondered like how she was affording to like look after all of us uh she also didn't work for a period of time so I didn't realize at the time because

I was young that she was getting benefits to help with us and then I would go over to my dad's house and everything would be looked after for us and we went on holidays and that was really great and we enjoyed that a lot and I didn't feel that we were putting strain on my dad and his wife at the time. And did you feel that you were putting, I mean, just based on your language, did you feel that you were putting strain on your mum and if so, how did you, I guess, as a young kid operate in those different situations well I just knew as soon as I could work I would so I got my first job when I was just under 15 at baker's delight and I was very cute so happy to have my own money and just be able to like buy the clothes and things that I wanted and cds I definitely knew that at

dad's place he would have more capability to like buy me bigger things or bigger ticket items rather than asking my mum I definitely leaned on my dad more to help me with the things that I wanted uh but they were they also did work really well together as like co-parenting so they did you know split all of our school fees braces uh car driving lessons and things like that and going you know school camps and things so they did make that 50 50 so I really like I've kept that with me so with my partner at the moment we have a similar income um so everything's 50 50 between us and I really value that a lot but I did know that it was just it was a lot easier on my dad's side from what I knew which probably wasn't a lot because money wasn't really spoken about heavily

in either of our families except for my mom that I knew she was a lot more stressed about it so it sounds like they worked really hard to make that work for you guys when there's two very different lifestyles which I think is really special with a situation like that where one family could potentially afford to give you more or be a little more comfortable there would have been a huge potential for that to put a strain on that relationship so I think it's so admirable and really worth highlighting that they worked through that to do as much as they could for you guys within the bounds of their own means yeah yeah that's really special I like that because often you know once a couple divorces like there's a personal level of that so sometimes they don't

work as well together or there's something going on but it's nice to know that they were harmonious can we pivot the conversation to talking about wills and estate planning for a hot minute when your father passed away was that an expected thing or was it an absolute shock like can you tell us a little bit about that process? It was a pretty big shock. So he had been unwell for quite some time. So he went through a second divorce. He had previously struggled with alcoholism. And I think that was just really the kind of the last straw for him. And he moved away. So he moved up to Queensland. So we just didn't have the same connection. And I think I was really upset that my life had kind of turned upside down because he had been with

his wife at the time for 15 years and since I was five. So, it really did feel like parents separating. And they had two younger daughters together who I love very dearly and are very close to. So, I was really upset with him for leaving and not giving them the same childhood experience that I had. Well, that's really sweet that that's how you viewed it. Like it was obviously your dad's leaving and that's changed for you but it was because they wouldn't get the experience that you got with him yeah and he was a he was a really wonderful dad he could uh he could definitely manage us uh so he left and then we just lost contact and it uh upset me that he didn't want to be around as much but I think I really just didn't know the extent of how living

with an addiction works and how much it changes a person's personality uh so when he passed away I knew he wasn't probably in the best place but I didn't realize how severe that it was and neither did the rest of my family so yeah it was a bit it was a big shock to us that's really awful but that's how it sometimes works for some people and addiction is it's not easy to hide but people with addiction work incredibly hard to shelter you from that so that you might not and as you said you didn't know the full extent of it and I don't think that that's anyone's fault it just is what it is but it's also there's a level of denial in these things as well so he didn't think it was as bad as it was he didn't know that that was going to be the case and you know when it comes to I

guess the overlay of wills and estate planning you're already grieving like you're already having a really shitty time to then find out you have to go through this entire process of like claiming a will what was that like and how did you find out that it would be that hard I didn't find out it would be that hard until I was in it and once it had started uh so he had a will um from when he was married and then once he had his second divorce he didn't update it which was what caused the issue. So when you divorce from somebody and if they're in your will, it treats them like they've died. So the first schedule of his will is like everything will go to my wife. So that was void. And then the second part of the will was for his four

daughters, including me. And because in the will, it looked like that my younger sisters wouldn't have any parents and that they would be orphans because it treated like his ex-husband like she had died so the majority of this estate went to them and we didn't feel like it was a fair split between us because now all four children had one parent each yeah and they both had a mom still around yeah that was it was just the legalities and the way the legals work and split it's crazy to think that that is how it is and you would think lawyers are smart they'd be able to have that conversation but they have to adhere to what the law says right yeah so we asked my sister's mother we're like look we think that the will should like his uh estate should be split

split more fairly between us this was quite recently after he'd passed so i think maybe after two months that's what we decided on and then as time went on we started to get in contact with lawyers and started the process and they advised us that we were going to need a deed to like amend this to show that yes we had all agreed with each other and that's what took a really long time my sister's mother kind of took back what she said and she wasn't happy with the even split anymore so then we had to get our own separate lawyers and then that was a long process and then come to an agreement together so that was a lot of pushing forth and media and stress yeah and we all know like that he would want the four of us just to have it as evenly as possible

yeah because our testamentary trusts were you can't access it until you're 25 and I was just 24 at the time so I didn't have long to go but my youngest ones had a very long time and there and to us we're like well that's at least 10-15 years where you're able to invest that yeah that's fair and I would have to because testamentary trusts are very hard to argue with you would have to keep that in cash like if that was the case where you're correct like if you amend that they could invest it in the in the interim so it's it's a really fickle uh part of the law and a part of you know life that people don't think about and it is really stressful and it is really complicated so my friend what ended up happening is it now evenly split is everybody

in the best possible position uh so we decided to split it uh 60 40 so my two youngest ones have 30 percent each and then myself and my sister we have uh 20 each and how I'm gonna be so pervy how did you come to that as being a fair split when just before you said my dad would want it even uh so in the will originally it was 70 30 so right it wasn't too far off but it wasn't 50 50 so I just that's what we pushed for so yeah that's fair it's just interesting to understand the split. I hope I'm not being too pervy. No, no, no, no, no. It's good for people to learn about like, this is, this is what can happen. Absolutely. And then to take it another layer further, your dad's estate, what was it made up of? Was it just cash? Was it cash and

assets like properties? Was there a life insurance or an insurance component to this that needed to be paid out like and how did the semantics of all of that happen uh so it was superannuation which was the majority of it because he'd worked for a university he had nice super he did have nice super uh and then he had a dad yeah he had a small unit and then he had some cash as well but most of the cash i reckon was uh taken up by just managing the estate and yeah and legal fees yeah and that's something that you just don't realize it's such an expensive process like people who are like oh it doesn't matter if we don't have a will like yes it does yeah in fact a clean clear will would have saved you guys not only three years but a whole heap of headaches

and admin and legal conversations that you needed to wrap your head around and the stress of being I don't understand it. Is someone screwing me over here? Do I get it? Do I not get it? Are they operating in my best interest? Were you comfortable through that process? How did you manage it personally? And are you okay now? There was a lot of meltdowns. I'm not surprised. Yeah. I used to work with someone who was in family law, so that was really helpful just to be able to ask her questions. And then the lawyers that we had, my sister and I as beneficiaries she was really great and made sure that we were comfortable and we understood everything that was going on and then gave us scenarios as well so she did

you know make it very clear if you're going to contest this will and you don't want it the way it is the most likely thing is that their fees are just going to eat up all of you yeah and she's like so it would be best to try and have just be able to work it out together so yeah that's fair that's fair oh my gosh I'm so sorry that you had this experience I just want to say through an already really traumatic time dealing with that unexpected death and I just wanted to say thank you for sharing such personal intimate information about the process because as you said I think it's something that people just really do not expect to deal with and particularly if you're younger you kind of go oh like don't figure it out it'll be fine like I'm sure it'll be all good and you

they maybe don't consider the ramifications that that has on the loved ones that you leave behind so I think that this story that you've shared with us will really be a little bit of a kick up the butt to some people including me who need to get a will in order and make sure that things all sorted out so thank you so so much you're so welcome if anyone does need a little bit more insight into wills as we said at the top we did cover that not too long ago at all so have a search through the feed for more information there's also some really great government resources out there that will link in the show notes that you can look into yeah and one thing that i want to say this has been like again this is absolutely correct thank you for sharing that because it's

not one it's not easy to talk about but it's such an intimate part like I'm asking about how your father passed away and what that looked like and how that worked and it it's a lot but it's also so powerful for the community to hear that because often when we have a friend going through a similar situation you're not like what was the real process like you just know that they're working it out like you're not gonna ask those pervy questions because usually you're like I don't want to pry I don't want to you know overstep my mark I just need to make sure that they're okay and this story I think is going to really help so many people see that it's not just you know me a financial advisor being like it's important get your will in order but it genuinely is so important

to place a value on this not just for you but also for your family because you don't want to put your family through unnecessary stress it's for your family it's to make a really horrible time for them so much easier and stress-free so I really would encourage everyone to get one exactly exactly all right well money diarist i do think that is all we have time for today we've been recording for ages again thank you for joining us but just before we head off as always we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to australia's aboriginal and torres strait islander peoples they're the traditional custodians of the lands the waterways and the skies all across australia we thank you for sharing and for caring for the land in which we are able to learn we pay

respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness and the advice shared on cheese on the money is generally nature and does not consider your individual circumstances cheese on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision and we promise victoria divine is an authorized representative of in focus securities australia proprietary limited abn 47097797049 afsl 236523 i'm not used to that yet jess it felt a little weird i'll get back next week see you later guys bye