She's On The Money - MONEY DIARIES: Livin' La Vida Limbo

Episode Date: July 24, 2022

She is happy, healthy, working towards her goals and is very grateful, but over the past 12 months, she's subconsciously hit autopilot and yearning for positive change. How can she combat complacency, and what's at the root of it all? Find out on this Money Diary!This year our Money Diaries are being brought to you by the legends at Shopback! Check them out at https://app.shopback.com/aus/partner/SOTM and you'll get a cashback bonus when you sign up!Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are Authorised Representatives of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN 47 097 797 049 AFSL - AFSL 236523.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back to another Shop Back Money Diary Monday. We get to chat to a community member and learn about them, their money and all of the interesting bits in between. This week, Victoria, I have a very fun diarist for you. Are you ready to hear it? I am. I'm surprised you didn't say, I've got a good one for you. We're moving away from that. I'm trying to branch out. So our diarist says, over the past 12 months, I seem to have subconsciously hit autopilot on my life, my goals and my finances and now I'm yearning for positive

change. I am a happy, healthy young woman and while nothing is inherently wrong with the way I am currently doing life, there are definitely opportunities I am missing, risks I'm not taking and all-round complacency is settling in. I am truly eager to dive into my psyche with your wonderful support and advice, find my way out of this funk and explore where to next for this near 27-year-old who seems to be stuck live in La Vida limbo. Does that not sound like it's going to be fun? Live in La Vida limbo sounds very fun. Marnie Dyrist, welcome to the show. Thank you both for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you because I feel like this is something that a lot of people can relate to. And it's something that

I've experienced. It's almost like that quarter life crisis moment that you have where you go, oh, like, am I doing the right thing? I feel like I went through this maybe when I was like 25, of 26 and I was just like not sure what I was doing with my life. I was like, where am I going? What am I doing? So I feel like this could be a super relatable one because I want to know exactly where you're at, where you're going and maybe what we're thinking about goals and how we could get back on track. So let's start as we always do. Money Darius, can you tell us a little bit about your money story? Yes, absolutely. So I grew up in a small-ish town in Victoria and we, I guess, were low to middle income household with both of my parents and my brother. My parents did have a

credit card and they instilled in me from the get-go that just because we have this, we don't want this path for you and that I could make better choices for myself if I employed strict practices for my own finances. And they really encouraged me to not go down that path that they were so my parents worked also quite tirelessly to provide opportunities for me and my brother just for you know travel and just participating in recreation and community so that was really rewarding experience as a as a child and an adolescent growing up but you would often see you know that they would make sacrifices to provide that lifestyle for us so I guess that was a humbling experience and it's part of the reason why I am who I am today and I've had

instilled in me from the ripe age of fresh out the womb that hard work pays off, but never at the expense of your wellbeing and your mental health. So always know that there will be money and it's not worth working for someone or a business that makes you miserable, really. So a bit of both in terms of that hard work, but also protecting yourself is really important. And that was from my parents. And I got my first job just before 16 in pharmacy. And that was a great little start to my career that travelled with me throughout my university experience. And I've been saving ever since. And that's been my ultimate goal. Save, save, save. I love that. Your parents sound like really humble and kind people. They're like, hey, cool, this is what we've got. Yeah,

they just, and I love the tone of voice you're using when talking about them. I feel like the tone of voice when someone talks about their parents tells you a lot about the relationship you have with them. Next question, my friend, what do you currently do for work and tell us how much money do you earn? So I am a coordinator for a youth services organisation and before tax it comes to about $95,000 per annum. Very cool. And what hits your bank account each and every single month? I have the privilege of being able to salary package. So, I guess that combined with my regular income, it's about $2,750 per fortnight. Oh, very nice. Tell us a little bit. I know we're going off track, Jess. Please don't come for me. Tell me a little bit about salary packaging. How

do you use that to benefit your income? So, I've submitted my lease. So, it contributes to my rent and I guess it's just the government recognising the hard work of community service organisations and giving them a little bit of a boost in terms of, yeah, taking that money out tax-free and then popping it back in my account. So I claim the maximum on general living expenses each fortnight, which is I think about $611 and a couple of cents. I met someone the other day, my friend. I was about to say your name, but I'm not going to slip up this early on in the episode. But I met someone the other day and they're like, oh, I could salary sacrifice because I work in a similar space to you. and I was like, what do you mean you could? They're like, I just can't be bothered setting

it up. I'm like, sir, it is tax free money. Like you are going to get that bank. And I basically forced them to do that. So I think that that is a very good thing. I'm glad that that's all set up for you. You said before that you're a really good saver, but we want to know what is your big money goal? It has fluctuated quite a bit in the past six months, I would say. It used to be the Australian dream, buying a home. But now I'm kind of in that space where I don't really know. I guess for now, I'd love to explore more about investing and increasing my investing portfolio. So for now, that's kind of a bit of my goal. But also, I guess retiring by 60 would be ideal. So I guess working towards that. Very exciting. All right. You mentioned

investments, the next question is, do you currently have any investments? If so, what are they? I do. Nothing super crazy because I'm still in the position of doing my research and building on that and it scares me a little bit, so working towards it. But I have some minor investments in spaceships. I've just started on a micro-investing platform and I also do voluntary contributions to my super each fortnight. Oh, exciting. How did you decide how much you wanted to contribute towards super? Oh, very good question. I think I just picked a number that I was comfortable with parting with regularly each fortnight, knowing that I wouldn't see it because I have it direct debited on payday. So at the moment it's only $40 a week, so $80 for that fortnight. And it's not a noticeable number,

doesn't really impact my general living expenses elsewise so that's where I'm at for now but if anything changes for me I'll definitely look at increasing it. That's going to end up impacting future you though pretty significantly because even though you feel like oh my gosh I can part with this that that doesn't really matter it makes sense to me it's actually going to impact you by probably a couple of hundred thousand dollars down the track when you decide to retire at 60 So you're definitely putting yourself in an optimal position by, you know, investing for your future. And once you get a little bit more comfortable with what asset class or what type of portfolio you want, I'm sure that'll be turbocharged even more. Flip side though, investments, the opposite of that is debt. Do you have any debt? If so, what is it? So I'm just sitting on my HECS debt at the moment from my studies, which from memory is, I think I have about 17,000 left. Oh, that's not too bad. And do you feel like with your salary,

it makes a pretty good dint in it each financial year or how does it make you feel? I mean, I feel okay because I don't really pay it much mind, which is, I guess, a good form of debt to have where it's not overwhelming you. But with salary packaging, it can impact on how much gets contributed to that. So sometimes at the end of the financial year and at tax time, I'll need to balance that out and actually contribute money. Yeah. Okay. So how do you manage for that? Are you putting some cash aside? Obviously, you're a good saver, but are you specifically putting cash aside for that? Or you just know, I'll have enough cash at the end of the financial year to make sure that I'm not in a pickle?

Pretty much making sure, yeah, that I have enough. I know that there's always going to be money there. I have an emergency fund as well that I could always draw on if the amount that I would owe is higher than what I was anticipating. But generally it's not too much. It's never more than about maybe $500. Oh, that's not too bad. Some people end up getting absolutely stung and it's a couple of thousand dollars and then you end up on a payment plan with the ATO and it ends up being very stressful. So I'm glad it's not too bad for you. Next question. Do you use ShopBack? I do. I don't do a whole lot of shopping, but whenever I'm ready to, I definitely go on ShopBack and I also just use it day to day. So I needed to do a little chemist warehouse top up the other

day. So I just went on to Shopback and saw that they had a good little percentage cash back and thought, why not? So I use it for things like that where I can too. I actually used it at chemist warehouse the other day. I was buying perfume for someone's birthday. I'm not going to say who it was, but chemist warehouse was like the cheapest. And then I got it even cheaper with Shopback and I felt like a queen. I was like, I'm a budget queen. And we're not going to talk about the parking fine I got the other day, but I'm a budget queen. And do you know what someone said to me the other day, Jess, in my DMs? Because obviously I'm a bit of a shop back stand. Right. Of course. We love it. Someone was like, oh, V, like, I just don't get it. It just feels like

another thing to add to the list. And I was like, sir, it's free money. Like, I don't understand. Like, what? What do you mean? It's like, it's free stuff. Like, I will do a lot for a discount. All you have to do is put it on your Chrome extension. Yeah. Like, it's free. So anyway, I was very baffled by that and literally that was my response. Next question, my friend. What's your best money habit? I feel like she might have a sneaky few, Jess. My best is probably, I'm just going to say my mindset. I'm very disciplined when it comes to every fortnight when my pay comes in, I know exactly how much I'm transferring across to my savings account, how much I'm transferring into my general living expenses account and how much I might want to play with that particular

month. So I think I'm very disciplined in that sense, but also that can also be to my detriment and not as fun, but that would be probably my best. And to flip that, what is your worst? I wouldn't say that I'm a lazy human, but I'm a very hardworking human. And at the end of the day, I can be quite tired and go for takeaway for dinner instead of committing myself to a 45 minute recipe at home with the food that I have in the fridge. You are me. I always say, and it's funny, I feel like I'm a different person at work than I am at home. So at work, I'll be like this super motivated person. I'll get all my stuff done. I'll be like, yep, this, this, this, this, and this. Get home. And I'm like, do we have to cook? Like I would like to

sit on this couch like a slug. And Uber Eats is sometimes a little bit too tempting for me. In fact, I was talking the other day with a friend, a friend who is on the radio with me, Jess, who has spent $17,000 in the last 12 months on Uber Eats. What? Wild, right? That is too much money. Mitch Turi, coming for you. But I'm not there, but I'm also a little bit scared to calculate mine, you know?

I wouldn't want to do it. Yeah, I calculated out how much it was per week and I was like, sir, that's more than my grocery bill. Like I'm just a cheeky pizza and salad kind of gal. All right. Next question before we go to a very quick break is my friend, what grade would you give your money habits if we forced you to give yourself a grade? I would probably give myself either a B plus or an A minus somewhere around that ballpark because I do still have a lot to learn. I need to really become focused on a new goal and set a new target for myself. So yeah, I'm thinking around B plus, A minus. I feel like that's very fair given you've said, I want to grow and I want to change and there's

some things I need to get in order. But like A minus, I reckon is a very nice place to be given how good you are at saving my friend. Let's go to a quick break. And then after our break, I want to talk about your Living La Vida Limbo comment. Let's go. all right jess we are back i've never heard someone say living levita limbo before but i feel like it summarizes the experiences of a lot of our community especially after the last few years that we've had where we were like not sure what's going on or how it works and now we're getting back into the swing of things we're all like what are my goals who am i what do i like where do i want to be in a few years do i even want to own property who am i is marriage an

option. Like, I feel like this is so relatable. Money Diarist, when did you come to the conclusion that you were in this limbo state and how are you feeling about it? I probably came to the realization that I was in this feeling of stuckness probably in the last month. But then upon reflection, I realized I've probably been here for at least six to 12 months. I feel like it's always us who finds out last. It's always like, oh, everybody else was probably a little bit like, oh, Jess is a little bit lost right now, but didn't notice yet. So talk to me about why that might be the case. Obviously, you're a really good saver. And externally, I would say it looks like you have all your stuff together. I just listened to your very structured money diary and you're

a good saver. It sounds like you've got some good goals. You're looking towards investing in the future. You're making the most of the way you get paid. Talk to me about why you still feel like you're in limbo. For sure. I think I'm very, as a person, hesitant to take risks, whether there's an element of, you know, I could have a return of unimaginable finances or anything like that. If I foresee any element of loss, I hold my cards quite close to my chest. I don't dive in. I don't try new things. I'm very vanilla in that sense. But also, you know, vanilla can be a good safe flavor so I just live in my safe bubble some people that's their favorite so I don't think it's a bad thing at all in fact I always choose vanilla ice cream over any other flavor because it goes

with so much and you're never disappointed exactly exactly but sometimes we get sick of vanilla and we want to try something different talk to me about why I'm getting the vibe that you're a bit risk averse is it your money diary is that how you grew up around money is it an experience that you've had relatively recently? Like what's going on? That is an excellent question. So I guess my parents did have one negative experience with investing when I was a lot younger actually. So well probably about 20 years ago where their investment in particular didn't pay off and they experienced quite a bit of loss in that regard. I don't think that's necessarily dramatically shaped you know my thought processes today but I think just knowing how long it's taken

me to build up my savings and the work that I've committed to that and the journey I am very hesitant to part with that so I think it's just reflecting on how long it's taken me to get here and what I've done to get here and yeah being a bit worried in that sense what happens if I lose it? I feel like that's a really common experience and we've spoken about it on the podcast before. You know, Jess, you've mentioned something similar before and also Georgia talks about it quite openly that Georgia is like a killer saver. She's a small wizard. I am sure you and Georgia would get along like a house on fire. She is so good at money, but she's also still, even having been in this she's on the money sphere for so long, she's very risk averse and is a bit worried about

investment markets, even though she has access to the advice, right? So it doesn't even mean that if you get the advice, you'll immediately go and invest. It's all about mindset. But you said before you have a really good money mindset. So talk to me about what's stopping you taking that next step into creating wealth so you can retire at 60. I think it's just letting myself become comfortable with fluctuating markets. It's going to go down sometimes, it's going to go up sometimes. And at the end of the day, if I'm not doing this, if I'm not investing in the market, my money is just sitting there doing nothing and it's not, you know, growing its wealth. So I think it's just building my own, you know, assurance in the system and just the market and

just accepting that it is what it is. And I need to start making positive change and getting my money to work for me rather than just sitting stagnant. It's a mind shift. Exactly. But it sounds like you're on the right pathway. Now, I know this money diary is about you, not about your parents, but I want to be a little bit pervy and ask, do you know what they invested in? Because I always like to ask this question because often when we talk to parents or grandparents who've experienced significant loss, often it's an asset class that we would go, that kind of makes sense in hindsight that that didn't perform or it wasn't an index fund or it wasn't an ETF that they put their money in and it was growing over the long term. So do you have

any insight into that? Yes. So it was, this is going to be polar opposites. It was either coal or gold. So very different resources. Sorry, it's totally escaped me now, but they got a tip off from a friend of theirs and this was going to be the next big mining opportunity and turns out it wasn't. It wasn't. Oh, that is the worst, especially because in that situation, I'm sure they trusted the person who gave them the advice. Oh, that makes me feel icky, but it's also a very good reflection. You know that book that I adore, Jess, The Richest Man in Babylon? There is some very good advice in there and you guys have probably already listened to our book episodes so you've heard this before but I want to drum it into you

one of the quotes in the richest man from Babylon is you would never take advice from a bricklayer on buying diamonds and that doesn't mean that they're not a good bricklayer and don't know their trade but I think it's so important to always question where advice comes from and say like oh great like I've got a tip off from a friend Jess told me would Jess know like she's a content creator in this and that but then oh she works in finance maybe she knows a little bit more. But I think it's so important to really contextualize where your advice is coming from, because so many of us get it from friends or so many of us get it from the media. What does Channel 9 or 10 or Channel 7 know about investing properly? I feel like it's such an

interesting space to ask about because every time I ask about a big loss, it was never in something really stable, which is a good and a bad thing. I mean, it's good for us to learn. It's terrible for them and it gives me a bit of ick. I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish I could help. Yeah. I wish I could have helped. Not that I would have known anything back then, but yeah, it's one of those things that, especially with where they were at financially in their journey, it was just a bit of a rough patch, but that's okay. It happens. We learn. They haven't done it since. So talk to me about the great Australian dream. You mentioned before that you're just not sure about it anymore. Where did your shift in mindset around that come from? And is that

something that growing up you just assumed would happen or you really wanted to happen or what are your thoughts on property ownership? Definitely growing up it was something you know I mean I grew up in a small rural town in Victoria so you know owning your own home was more common than renting because it was quite affordable where we were living and it was just you know you save and then you get your deposit you buy your house you get married you start your family like it was all that flow on effect and it all stemmed from this big beautiful home that you owned it's all a lie but it's all a lie is it well I just I probably until about 12 months ago I was still in that mindset but it it shifted a little bit now that I'm living in the Melbourne region to okay maybe

I won't buy a house for myself maybe I'll buy an investment property or you know out of area so that I can save a bit of money on that so that I'm not dropping a million dollars for example and then that shifted again after a really I guess important conversation that my partner and I had about where our values were sitting right now not you know what did we want when we were 18 it's what do we want for ourselves right now and we decided that we don't want a house right now and we don't really have a need for an investment property and possibly the extra work or stresses that that might put on our lives right now. But we agreed that maybe in the future, that's something that we can re-explore together or separately. But yeah, we don't really know where we want to

put down our roots. We would like to be doing so much else like traveling and just growing together as a couple before we commit to any large purchases like a home. Yeah, because it's such a big investment and it's not just an investment in terms of we'll get a return out of this. It's your time, your energy, your effort, all of your savings, arguably, also the ongoing commitment of paying a mortgage. I don't think a lot of people understand what that commitment looks like until you're actually in the depths of it. We talk about it a lot of work and we talk a lot about it in the office, just about making sure that you can afford the repayments and the repayments are something that are not compromising your future goals and

what you actually want to achieve in life. Because I think once we start looking at property, we get so tunnel visioned and we go, all right, we need to save as much as possible. And then once I have that deposit, I'm going to be able to be a bit more free. And unfortunately, so many of us go, we do that, we save our butts off, we get to that point where we can purchase a property, we speak to a broker, they talk to you about what your serviceability looks like and what you can afford and you go, great, no problems, that's fantastic. And we end up on the higher end of that spectrum, locking us into a mortgage repayment that stops us doing those things that you just said you love, like growing as a couple and having shared beautiful experiences

and traveling and experiencing the world. And I think that we need to zoom out a little and go, well, what does life look like if we are going to go down that route at some point? What does it look like? How does it work? Where would it sit? And I think that you're making a really important decision as a couple right now that's, okay, well, that's not in line with our goals and values. And I think that's so powerful because it bucks the trend of what everyone might expect from you, especially if you've come from a small town. Absolutely. And I constantly hear your voice in my head, Victoria, saying, you know, what are your money values? And reminding myself that just because everyone else is doing this doesn't mean that I should do that. And it's not what I

necessarily want to do anymore. And it's okay that my mindset has shifted over the past couple of years. Exactly. And it can shift again. Like you could come full circle and go, oh my gosh, we have changed our minds. The only thing we want to do is buy a house. And that's so fine, but it's about being in touch with what that looks like and it changes and it shifts. And I think that if you spoke to even baby Victoria, her goals and her values were absolutely not aligned to what current Victoria's goals and values are. Like I'm looking at it going, oh my gosh, at some point I'm going to have a baby and that's so exciting. I want to provide for that baby. Like if you'd set that to past Victoria at 22, 23, she would have been like, that's disgusting. You're never having

kids. What are you talking about? I don't want to be locked down to any man. I think it's just such an interesting mindset shift to even contrast past us to future us because I don't even know what I would want to do in the future, right? And I think that that's where it gets so confusing because we often compare ourselves to our friends and our family and our colleagues and people who surround us instead of ourselves. Like the only person you should ever compare yourself to is past you. Never anybody else. Because if you're doing that, you're doing yourself a disservice because everybody else has different experiences and goals and values and things they want to achieve. And I mean, if I look at Jess, she's a way better saver than me. Like Jess is a small

wizard. So is Georgia. It's really jarring because I am not nearly as good at money as they are. I have to be super automated. And I look at them and I go, oh my gosh, like I can't believe how good at money they are consistently because I am not but that doesn't put me in a good position at all it just makes me feel bad it puts me in a position where I'm then reflecting on their goals and their values to overlay onto my life whereas I could go oh my gosh Victoria you're doing so well you're so much better than past you because past you was an absolute shamble so I think it's about really understanding and it sounds like you're on track to really going all right well this is how we want to live life on our terms. And that's such a beautiful thing to hear. I love it.

Yeah. Life is definitely too short and too fluid to remain stagnant. So what are we going to do about our living Levita limbo? How are we going to sort that out? Because I think that this topic is such a common one and it's such a relatable topic in our community. Like what are you going to do? How are we going to do it? And how are we going to do it together? I was hoping you might have that answer, but I can contribute. I think I might just need to take that leap. And if I want to invest, just accepting that with investing comes ebbs and flows, and that's all part of the journey. So I think taking that leap there, but ensuring that I'm doing it in a financially safe way. So I've done my research.

I've spoken to a financial advisor. Yay! I've heard they're good eggs. Do you know any good ones? No. I've heard of one. I wouldn't recommend. Oh, okay. Give it a miss then. But yeah, so I just, I need to, and I think in terms of what I've already done, a little bit of research, quite a bit of reading, I think I'm at that point where I'm ready to meet with a financial advisor, whether that's to provide an element of comfortability and security in taking that leap or getting that professional advice. I think that's a really important point that you bring up because we've done

episodes on different ways to invest. So we talked about micro-investing and then DIY platforms and robo-advice and financial advice. And obviously, financial advice can be quite expensive and arguably a little bit prohibitive for a lot of people. But a lot of the time when we talk to clients or I see new clients, they'll sit down and be like, Victoria, this is worth it because I'm never going to get into the market if I don't have someone holding my hand or if I don't have this sense of support around me because it's just never going to happen. So as much as it's an investment, it's an investment in my future because I'm not going to invest without somebody else. And I really like reframing it to that because so many people say things like, oh my

gosh, you could just do it yourself. And you absolutely could. But a lot of people aren't comfortable to do that. A lot of people need that journey. And we talk about investment so much, which is why we have a book coming out in September, literally on investment. Because after the first book came out, I obviously included some information about investment in different asset classes. And I was like, this is good. This is a really good base understanding. Everyone was basically shaking me going, well, what's next? How do we do the next thing? And I go, oh, okay, well, I guess we have to write another book. So hopefully you can get your mittens on that and put yourself in a position where you go, oh, this makes sense. These are

the next steps. These are the things I need to understand to feel comfortable with the markets. And it's something that I want to create way more content around as well. So hopefully we can do a little course so we can do it together and actually sit down and have webinars and stuff. And I'm just trying to find a format to make that work so that we can learn together and it be collaborative. However, you said before a very interesting comment where you're like, oh, I hoped that you have the answers? And I'm like, my friend, I wish I had the answers. But the thing is, I am a financial advisor. I can advise, but what you actually take up is really based on your goals and your values. And a lot of the financial advice process is actually very psychological.

It's very sit down and saying, money, Jairus, but what do you want? And it's like asking the questions that get the answer out of you. So the answer truly lies with you. It's not actually with me. There's no magic wand that goes, oh my gosh, you can feel like you're not in limbo anymore. It's actually that structure and sitting down and going, well, what are my attitudes towards money? What do I want to achieve? And journaling is a really powerful tool that you can use to sit down and go, oh, well, what does life look like in 10 or 20 years? It's something that I've done with my partner he was a bit begrudging of it he didn't like this idea because it's quite lame but sitting down and going well what does life look like for us in five years like what where are we at where

do we live what amount of money do we earn do we have kids do we not have kids do we still live in the same location I think that that can be a really powerful tool of saying five years and then we did 10 years and after that we both just started arguing about how it wasn't worth you know going any further than that. But that gave us a really good structure of, well, what do we need to get in place to create that reality? What do we need to organize to make sure that that works? And that was something that Steve and I had done before we got engaged. And I didn't know that that was coming at that point, but we sat down and I was like, oh, like, you know, being really honest, I'd love to think that in five years we'd be married. Steve was like, yeah, like that seems

like a really nice, you know, part of life. And I think that to have those open, honest conversations about where your life goes, whether it is with your partner or with a friend or even just with yourself and a journal sitting with a really nice cup of tea. I think that that can be a really awesome point of reflection where you go, well, what does it look like in the future? We're not comparing to anybody else. We're not reflecting on other people's expectations of ourselves. And more often than not, I think you'll find that most of us, it's not about things. It's about experiences and feelings and mental health. And I think that those are really beautiful outcomes that we can start working towards. So I'm sorry I don't have the answers because unfortunately,

I never do. I can give you an education. I can give you all the information on how to look at the return on investment or the return on equity. We can sit down and we can talk about asset classes. But at the end of the day, your values and what your life looks like and that guidance actually comes from within, as fluffy as that sounds. And I'm sorry. No, I think it's really relevant. Sometimes you just need someone to say to you, I hear that you're wanting to explore this and that's okay. And whether it's a flop or a success, you're going to do what you want to be doing. And I think that's what you guys are providing for me right now. I read a tweet on the weekend and it said, after your flop era comes your slay era. And so even if it is a flop,

maybe that that means that something good will come around the corner for you. And look at rock bottom, you can only go up, right? Exactly. Exactly. And I always say it's either a blessing or a lesson. So there's no such thing as a flop in my book, Jessica Ritchie. None of us are flops. I think it's interesting as well, because I think so many of us are actually looking for permission to explore it. I think we're not looking necessarily for the answers. We're just looking for the gateway to start, right? It's like anything. You just don't feel like you're well enough equipped to start exploring that, but exploring it is free. You can read so much. You can listen to podcasts. You can explore

different topics or even just different theories or different ideas from different people without having any complications on your financial life, right? So I think starting to map out what that might look like or even write down the things you don't want to be because I think a lot of the time if we're confused about our circumstances it's very hard to say okay Jess well what do you want in five years and you throw your hands in the air and you go well I don't know Victoria that's the problem but what we can do is sit down and go well what don't you want you go I don't want to be in a job that I don't like I don't want to not do this or I don't want to have not traveled I think it's easier to write a list of things you do not want as opposed to things you do want. Even though

I'm very much of a positive mindset and I'd prefer us to be more aspirational, sometimes it's easier to start with a list of don't because they quite easily can be reframed into, well, the opposite of that is this. Is that what you want? You go, yeah, that sounds about right for me. So I think it can be a little bit fluffy, but sometimes we need someone to just give us permission to explore that and say, no, do it. Like that's the best thing for you. We want to see where you're at and how that works. I think so, definitely. And having, like you were saying, Victoria, having someone along that journey with you, whether it be a financial advisor or a partner or someone else that holds a lot of value and importance to you to, you know, pick you up when

things aren't great or if anything, you know, dips and just say, look, we're going to try again. So I think that's what I'll be seeking, definitely. I love that. And I think you're absolutely on the right track. Jess, do you have any other questions? No, I feel like that's left it at a really nice place. I feel like we've run out of time as well. So I was like, ah, Jess, if you do, sorry.

All right. Thank you so much, Money Diarist. I feel like this has been super relatable to me and to probably everybody who listens. But now, Jess, unfortunately, it is time to wrap the boring but important stuff. Take it away. Don't forget, guys, the advice shared on She's On The Money is generally nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.

She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Infocus Securities Australia Proprietary Limited, ABN 47097 797 049 AFSL 236523. See you on Wednesday, guys. Bye. Thank you for watching.