She's On The Money - Nailing A Job Interview

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

Job interviews can be nerve-wracking, but with the right approach and a dash of confidence, you can absolutely nail it. We all have unique qualities that can shine in an interview setting, it’s just about getting into the mindset and doing the prep so that you truly sparkle! Today we give you a step by step guide to nailing that job interview. Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Bec Syed and we are with VD to talk about universally feared subject, job interviews. Do you think we should change our intro? Like, you know, you just said millennials who want financial freedom. And I very quickly realized that our community is made up of more than millennials. So true. It's for anyone who wants financial freedom. I'm not very good at taglines. So if anyone's listening to this and they're like, yeah, V, we're getting really sick of you saying, welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want

financial freedom. Slide into my DMs with a better suggestion. Obviously, I will credit you. It's all good. But until that happens and someone gives us a better tagline, we'll continue to use the millennial broken record. But we are talking about job interviews today. Maybe that should be a question I ask in job interviews. What should our tagline be? What should our tagline be? That's a pretty good question. No pressure. But job interviews are so stressful. I hated job interviews. I feel like, especially with my little ADHD brain, if I had a job interview at 3 p.m., I did nothing for the rest of the day except get ready for the interview and then sit at my dining table waiting for the

interview with sweaty hands. And then because I got ready so early, I would then have to go change my outfit because I'd sweated through the outfit and then I would have to pick it again. But then I'd change it again because I was anxious about what they would think of me wearing such a boring outfit, right? I just feel like that's not the conversation we're having today though, because I guess we want to pepper a whole heap of confidence into you guys because you can absolutely nail it. And I feel like the tips and tricks to nailing a job interview, especially now that I am an employer and the things that I know employers look for, it's not necessarily the things that you think are, you know, rehearsing your answers. That's actually a terrible idea

because it makes you sound like you've rehearsed your answers. And then they go, well, maybe she just said that because she, you know, practiced that answer and thought that's what we really wanted to hear instead of actually being an authentic human being. So there are a fair few things that can shoot yourselves in the foot. But from my perspective, we all have unique qualities that I genuinely believe can shine in an interview setting. It's just about getting into the mindset and doing the prep so that you do actually shine and you do actually put your best foot forward. So Beck. Yes. Are you excited? I'm very excited. I want to know actually, have you had a really terrible interview before? Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely

I did. I remember it was like for my grad job and I didn't end up getting the job. So I studied psychology and I ultimately did my fourth year in psychology and I did it in organizational psych, which is the science of people at work. So it's more corporate. And I was applying for like jobs with a big four because what I wanted to get into was management consulting. So I'd applied obviously with all four of the big four in my space. And I was interviewing with a couple of those and I was so nervous. Thankfully, I did get a job with not a big four. I ended up not taking that. I ended up taking one with kind of like a down, what do you call not a big four? Like still really big corporate structure, whatever. Yeah. So we were doing that. And I remember I

went into this situation. I'd put my resume in and we did an interview. It was an online like survey thing to see if you got through to the next round and then it was a group interview scary oh my gosh who does group interviews and thinks that's a good idea are you joking I was to put it very nicely shitting bricks like I was so scared and so nervous that me who you look at me right now you're like she's talkative like yeah I could talk underwater with a mouth full of marbles. Like I literally have a podcast. It's my entire career. Do you think I said anything in that group interview? No. No, I was mute. You wouldn't be able to. I just sat there staring at everybody else feeling awful because they all seemed so flipping smart and so well put together

and all of them had really nice cue dresses on. And I was just wearing a dress that I'd been wearing to my like day job. And like, I just didn't look as good. I didn't feel as good. I was judging myself. Should I have done that? Absolutely not. It put me in the worst possible position. And you know what it was about? It was about mindset because if I had walked in there with the confidence that I deserved to walk in there with, it didn't matter what I was wearing, didn't matter what I did. I would have been able to actually articulate my value and share with people why I should be there because it's never about what you wear.

No. I mean, if you turned up to a bikini to a corporate interview, like it probably is about what you wear. But like, it's really important to realize that the things that matter are not the things that I felt in that moment were important. And I didn't get that job. I didn't actually make it past the group interview stage. Go figure. Like, there's a reason. At the time, I was heartbroken. I was like, they can't see how smart I am. They can't see this. They

can't see that. I'm the worst. I can't see that either, Victoria. When I look back, like, you screwed that for yourself. Like, it had nothing to do. Like, I remember going through it and they did, I don't know if they still do this, but they did like psychometric assessment. So like, they basically did a intelligence test and like scary yeah really really scary but as somebody who studied them I knew how to take them I also let's again be frank I'm relative like I do have a high IQ and so it worked out really well for me but the fact that I could do that whole assessment in the comfort of my own home obviously feeling pressure but like not feeling like there was anyone around me the feedback they gave me was that my personality and the way I presented on

the day did not match what my psychometric assessment had said about me and I was gutted I was like but that's who I am that's what I do like it kind of sent me for a spin for a very long time that's interesting they didn't know that it was just obviously nerves or something they were just like oh we don't see it no yeah no obviously you're nervous no exactly and I just remember being heartbroken and it's it's funny because those are the things that you hold on to right yeah those are the things that play on your mind at 3am even now that I'm in my 30s and have one a different career and two a fair bit more confidence than I did but it's funny because I still follow the main recruiter on LinkedIn like and they sometimes pop up and every single time

I see their post I'm like oh oh I still don't like it it still triggers me because it makes me feel so anxious like I remember it transports me right back to feeling like I wasn't good enough and I didn't know enough and I didn't have enough this that or the other and I remember yeah I just remember that so vividly and I guess that's why I'm now so passionate about yeah mentoring and sharing knowledge and giving you guys the confidence that I genuinely believe you deserve to walk in there and be like no I'm a badass like yeah no I deserve this and it doesn't matter whether you've got experience or not. Like holding yourself well, it's to me a complete skill. If you haven't watched, so side note, this is the lamest recommendation in the entire world. There is a

TED Talk. I love TED Talk. I am obsessed with TED Talk. I am obsessed with TEDs. I'm manifesting doing my own TED Talk one day on financial literacy. We will get there. But there is a woman called Amy Cuddy and she talks about power posing. And if you've heard about this before, totally get it. You're probably sick of me because it's from years and years and years ago, but it's all about kind of stepping into your true self and giving yourself a little bit more confidence because if you act a certain way, the hormones in your body can change and, you know, you can actually get a bit more confidence just by acting confident. Like you can get a bit more confident by, you know, putting your shoulders back and taking a few deep breaths and like

deciding to hold the room as opposed to, you know, slouching and walking in and being meek. so sure she talks about this concept of power posing and like power posing in the mirror to like get more confidence and it sounds really lame no I love this it works yeah it works and it's something that you know even when I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed I'm like all right well what's my body language saying to everybody else because sometimes if you don't have the words like sitting back in your chair not you know not crossing your arms over or slouching over like you know immediately if someone's like that they're being a bit defensive they're a little be introverted. Whereas if I sit like this, I'm a lot more confident and I'm a lot more,

you know, likely to, you know, be a bit more successful. So go have a look at that. I think it's really important, but that's my horror story about how I didn't get the job. And now I still scroll through LinkedIn and get triggered by it. Should I unfollow her? Probably for my own mental health, but she's actually a really nice person and I had nothing to do with her. That's fair enough. That's fair enough. Bec, I mean, you've got this job and it wasn't scary to get this job, but have you had any terrible job experiences and interviews? In general, I have had so many job interviews, not all of them bad. One, I'll tell you about two. Oh, I got two. Really, really quickly because I

don't want to take up too much of your time. So the first one. No, I want you to always take up all of my time. That is so sweet. Well, the first one was very, is more interesting than anything. It was, I was going for a prison officer role. Oh, cool. And I got very, very far along. I did I did not see this coming. I did not see this coming at all. I have applied for so many jobs. You would, and even like- A prison officer.

I've been to so many, even like, you know, Survivor, I tried to get on Survivor. I know that's not a job interview. Oh, you'd be good at Survivor too. Thank you so much. I don't know if you'd survive, but like you'd be funny. So many, so many different weird, not weird, but interesting. I mean, it is a bit of a juxtaposition from, you know, you've been in reception, you now work in video production, you're a podcast co-host, you also decided that you're going

to work in a prison and go on Survivor. Like I feel like that's eclectic at best. And that is not even touching the sides. But basically, so this one interview, it was a few interviews in. It was such a long process. It took months and months and months to even get to the stage. But as a few of us, we all went to the Geelong AFL main. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know that stadium? Yep. And they just held the interviews there. They held the interviews. There was a big interview day and there was a few different things we had to do. One of them was role play. So there was an interviewer who I didn't know. I was such a great actor.

But basically I went in here. One of the interviewees, interviewees, interviewers, sorry I should say, played the role of a very distressed inmate and I had to calm this person down and it probably went for about ten minutes. And this person was very good at acting. It almost gave me quite traumatic how realistic this situation was. anyway so that was one of my interviews where I had to literally almost talk down a very realistic inmate that was scary but you know it was great it's actually really interesting and I almost got

that job and I can't remember why I didn't but anyway the next interview was awful awful awful no I went to us for some reason applied for a job that I was not qualified for and for some reason No, no, no. Okay, go for it. You applied for a job that you definitely could have grown into. Oh, that's very nice of you to say. I hate when people say, oh, I wasn't qualified for it. It's like, well, put your hat in the ring anyway.

If you got to the interview stage, like they clearly see something in you, don't they? True. Well, yeah, well, that's what I thought. That's why I went to this thing. I don't know why they invited me, but yes, exactly as you're saying. That's on them. They could have sent you a nice email being like, thank you so much, Bec. They could have.

Unfortunately, we're looking for someone with a little bit more experience and you would have said, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. for giving me a response at best. Honestly, I would have preferred that because the way this went, they were asking me questions. I worked in a call centre at this point. I was, you know, always working in entry-level jobs, until this job actually. So I was a call centre, entry-level call taker,

and I applied for a business sort of role, and they were asking me questions like I don't even, I can't even remember them. They were so complex. Yeah. I literally mid-interview had to say, I don't think this is what I thought, and I don't think I'm what you thought.

I, I, I need to, I said, I mean, bad interview. That's great. But I had to stay there for a while because it was, there were a few different points in this interview. It was like a two hour one. Oh my gosh. And I said, I, I think I've misunderstood what's happening here. And I said, you know, I'm not going to get this. I would have fired you on the spot. That's very nice. Well, honestly, like that authenticity and that transparency is something that, you know what, a lot of people would have just bullshitted their way through that interview, right? Oh yes. Oh yes. And then like an idiot, like, I just want you to tell me how it is. Yeah, that's fair. It was a little bit, it got to the point I was trying to, I was

trying to bullshit. I cannot bullshit anymore. We have reached peak bullshitness. I said, I think you can see what's happening here. I can see what's happening here. I need to go home. I have read the room and I would like to read this room and read out of it. Exactly. So that's basically, those are the two core memories that I have. Oh my gosh. There are many more, but anyway, we digress. We digress. Well, how about we just talk about, you know, some tips and tricks to nailing your job interview, regardless of whether it's as a role as a prison officer for one of the big four banks, as a receptionist to work in a call center, whether you're going to go and do this big dog business interview, it doesn't matter, right? Absolutely. Because I feel like the tips

century, they transcend all industries. Exactly right. So V, you as an employer, what do you look for? I've got three, right? I feel like, all right, first things first, dress for success. I know that that is very flippant and we should not in 2023 be making the first point about a job interview about your physical appearance because I do not like that at all. But what we need to acknowledge is that that immediate judgment of you walking in that door and putting your best foot forward, they're going to look at you and judge you. I don't care how open they say they are. I don't care what people are going to go, oh, but it shouldn't be about what you wear. You're right. It shouldn't, but it is. And so we're going to just tackle that one

first. So obviously I want you to be super comfortable and super confident and wearing a pencil skirt back that makes you super uncomfortable, but you think is what they're looking for is doing the exact opposite for you. Like I know you well enough to know that if I was like, all right, let's take Becky in for a corporate interview, let's chuck her in and like a whole outfit that's going to make her so wildly uncomfortable. It's going to make the interview awful. Like you're going to be adjusting your skirt every two seconds. You're going to be worrying how it's going to fit, what it looks like, what you look like from behind. You're going to not feel like your best self in that outfit, right? So we're not going to dress like

somebody else or what you think they're expecting, we're going to dress appropriately for the job interview, but in a way that suits your personal style. So if you are most comfortable in pants, you're going to wear pants. I don't care if everybody else in that organization wears skirts. It doesn't worry me at all because at the end of the day, you're not going to turn up in a skirt every day, are you Bec? No. So I think it's important to feel confident and comfortable and opt for professional attire that actually reflects your personal style. It's like show up as you, but the appropriate version of you for that event. I also believe genuinely that when you look good, you feel good.

So investing some time in just like personal grooming before is really, really important. So like do wash your hair that day. You'll feel super fresh. Like if you wear makeup, pop on some makeup and give yourself an extra five or ten minutes to make sure that you're not rushed in that process and you can make it a bit more self-carry than you usually would. So you walk out feeling like super nice and super fresh. I also genuinely believe in, and this is going to be lame, but dressing one style up from what the expected outfit is. So if you're going to a job interview

where you know that all of the team, they actually just turn up in jumpers and t-shirts and wear some jeans to work, you're not going to wear jeans that day. You're going to wear just, we're not going to go super formal, but we're going to wear a nice pair of slacks. We are going to dress for the job that we want, not the current situation that we are in, because that is immediately going to put you in a more polished position. So even though I know unequivocally, if I got that job, I would not be expected to wear that outfit. I'm going to dress one level above because I'm trying. I'm trying to put my best foot forward. And do you know what? I actually want you to notice. I want you to know that I'm turning up looking really chic. I want you to know that I

care about this. And I want you to know that that to me is really important. It doesn't mean that you're not going to go back to t-shirts if you get the job. I totally get that. But a way of immediately communicating how interested you are in something is to put what others might see as your best foot forward. Like, could you just turn up in jeans and a t-shirt and get the job? Yeah, because do you know why? A mediocre middle-aged white man would do that. But when we really want to feel confident, I think turning up a little bit overdressed is not the worst thing in the entire world. There is no such thing as overdressed, like literally nothing. The next is do your homework. So especially when you're, you mentioned before, Bec, that you've applied for heaps and

heaps of jobs and done heaps and heaps of interviews. One of the hardest things when you're in that job seeker phase is to like keep your finger on the pulse of what every single company does, like every single job is going to fit you because you applied for it, right? But like, if you're like looking, let's just say a reception role, you're looking for a reception role and you're like, oh my gosh, this actually looks really good. I'm looking for a reception role in the Melbourne CBD and I want full-time hours. And you know, there might be some other things that you're looking for. You chuck that into Seek or LinkedIn or wherever you're looking for a job and a heap are going to come up, right? You're going to apply for all of them. But it is

a shame when you go to that job interview and they say, so what's Zella about? Can you tell me a little bit about Zella Money and why you chose to apply for the role here at our company? Right. Why us? Why us? Like there's lots of reception jobs out there. My friend, do your research, understand the value, understand the mission of the company and the role that you're applying for. It is so important because so many times I have interviewed people and I'm like, oh, cool, you want to work for Zella Money. I'm so stoked. Like what brought you here? I don't know. Oh, I saw it on Seek.

Okay. Like I know that that might be the truth of it. Like at the end of the day, I'm looking for staff and I'm putting myself out into the recruitment sphere. So I know that you might see my company for the very first time and apply for that job. Can you please at least pretend to care about my value and my mission and what goes on? Because there's nothing more disheartening than interviewing somebody and going, yep, cool. So this reception role is five days a week and you'll be greeting my clients and welcoming my clients into my office and making them feel super comfortable. What about Zella are you passionate about? And you will go, oh, I don't know. Don't know yet. Oh, do you know what I mean? Like you're completely off on the

wrong foot. And that's something that doesn't take experience. It doesn't take a genius. It it doesn't, these are things that are hygiene. They're like hygiene level things. Google the company, read through their about page on their website, look up what they actually do, like put them into Google, have a read of the first few articles, know who the CEO is, understand what that means because the amount of times, and this is historically before Zeller and She's on the Money got the profile that they have, I would walk into an interview and they'd be like, oh, so do you just recruit for this company? Yeah, I do. I also own it. And there's nothing more disheartening than feeling like other people don't care about your business as

much as you do. And I'm not saying that that's still true when it comes to corporate, but even in corporate, sharing with the recruiter or whoever you're meeting with, you really care about the mission of this company. I really want to work with you because, you know, it's a smaller business environment and I feel like I'll thrive here. It doesn't have to be super specific. You don't have to go well actually I know that the CEO's name is Craig and Craig likes dogs and on his Instagram it says xy you don't need that level we just need to have base mission base values understand that they align because as much as you're being interviewed by them same situation you had Beck you're interviewing them and seeing if it's a right fit for you yeah you're going to

spend 40 hours ish 38 40 hours a week every single week with this company and these people those are more waking hours than the hours you'll spend with your partner. Make the right decision. Make it a company that you actually like going to work with. And that's not because I think that your entire work-life balance should be about making sure that you love your job. You don't have to love your job, but you do have to be mentally healthy in your job. So let's make sure it's a company that you don't absolutely hate going to. And obviously having that knowledge is going to demonstrate your enthusiasm and actual genuine interest in the role and not make the recruiter feel like you just went on seek and applied for every single one, even if that's

the reality of the situation. They don't need to know that. That's fine. Then showcase your strengths. There is this misconception that having a high opinion of yourself is ego and it's narcissistic. It's not. It's self-care. Having a high opinion of yourself is a good thing. Being able to understand your strengths and your weaknesses is power. It is not having an ego and being egotistical it is not being narcissistic it is actually a form of self-care and self-love and putting yourself first and actually respecting yourself and your body like to me when people are like oh no I'm not very good at much I'm like that tells me more about your relationship with yourself than your capability right I want you to be able to see a job interview as an opportunity

to without fail go oh actually I'm really good at this not so good at that do you know who had a really good interview and they told me they were absolutely terrible at a few things. Miss Jessica Ricci. No. Absolutely. And I loved every second of it. So in her job interview, and I'm talking about this so candidly because she's spoken about it publicly on this podcast before, so we're not, you know, introducing any new information here. In her interview, she came along to it and we were talking about the role and, you know, what she was really good at and what she was, you know, maybe wondering about. She then said, actually, I've got to be completely transparent in your job description. You said that I would be working on spreadsheets and I

would be doing this and I'm terrible at spreadsheets. I don't like them. I don't actually want to learn anything about them. My entire value sits over here. And you know, if I'm going to have to go over there, like I'll learn the bare minimum, but I promise you, I'm not engaged. I'm not enthusiastic. It is not what I do. I know you're really good at it and I'm happy to, you know, learn what I need to, to be successful in this role. But I think I should be super transparent. Like if that's what you're mainly hiring for, I would not be a good fit. Wow. And I remember being like, what? Like no one's ever walked in and said, hey, so this thing in your job ad that you said you were looking for, I'm everything else,

but I'm not that. She basically got the job on the spot. She literally got offered the job on the spot by me because I just felt like somebody being so transparent and so confident about their skills and where their value was and what they valued and what they wanted to do in that moment I knew that that was the type of person I wanted on my team and that other thing you're never going to get the perfect employee like let's be honest like a job description goes out and it's like a wish list yeah it's like a wish list of here are all the things I would love you to have I want you to do ABC and unless you've worked in exactly the same role before it's very unlikely that you're going to tick every single box. And that's why we need to talk about this stuff more often,

because often when you apply for a job, Bec, you're applying for one step up and you're applying for a step up. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you've got experience in that. It means that you need experience in that. And if you're a kind, capable, intelligent human being, you can learn on the job. Absolutely. But if you're super transparent in your interview about a particular component of that, you're going to get way more respect from somebody than being like, oh yeah, no, no, I can do that. I can do that. And then in the first couple of weeks, they realized, oh, Bec can't actually do that. Like maybe Bec was like not being as transparent as she could in her job interview. As an employer, I don't care. I hire, and I mean, this is not the truth

for everybody, but I hire based on cultural fit. I mean, you have to have some level of base competency, let's be honest, but I would prefer to train you for technical skill than hire somebody that's not the right cultural fit. Because like at the end of the day, when the mics are off, it's you, it's me, it's Jess, it's Annalisa, it's Gabby, it's Maddie, it's like the rest of my team hanging out and trying to work out what happens next and we need to get along. We don't just need to get along. It is so important that you and I understand each other on a deeper level so that when we are doing the work that we do, it makes sense. Totally. Your technical capability can be taught. You don't know how to do it. I'll teach you. But if you never want to learn, you also

need to communicate that too, because that could be a stumbling block in the role. Sure. So I think showcasing your strengths and understanding, having a low opinion of yourself, Bec, from my perspective is not being humble. It is destructive. It is not sexy. That's a big call. Kind of, I guess it is a big call, but having a low opinion of yourself, it's actually just self-destruction. and I don't think that that is very sexy at all and I think that we all should kind of step a bit more into our confidence and if you can't do something cool be confident about it be like I don't really know how to do that yet but do you know what I do know is that I'm tenacious and I am smart and I am willing and I am so excited to learn that's what I want to hear I love that do

you know what I mean like if I go back can you do that and you go oh no I don't think so sorry I haven't got experience in that is that all right okay but like flip that oh beck i'm so sorry i can't do that but that sounds so interesting and this business is something that i'm really passionate about and from what you've explained i feel like i do have the skills to learn that quite quickly so i don't think that should be an issue at all yeah oh my god how good is that in comparison i just think reframing as well just so so important but what do you think what do you reckon we need in our arsenal to nail a job interview, Bec? Look, V, I think those things are definitely important, but I also think it's important to remember that each interview is

like a learning experience regardless of the outcome. So whether you get it or not, or whether you've gone in there and you're not confident, or you've gone in there and you've done something wrong or forgotten to put shoes on or something weird like that, you will always learn something at the end of it. So it's, yeah, it's always a learning curve. Do you know what? It's very funny. my mum has this saying that I think helps me a lot in the world and it's nothing is ever like fruitless. Everything in your life will either be a blessing or a lesson. Oh, she's good. So you'll either like, you know, get the job and it'll be a blessing. It'll be so great. Or it'll be a lesson and you've learned something from it. And if you haven't learned something from it, you probably

haven't sat down long enough to think about what that learning was. Or sometimes you're not able to see that learning and you're like really upset about it and you really really wanted that and you're just like this is devastating and then six months down the track you're like looking at the current role you have and you're like I'm so glad I didn't get that because even though I was super upset about it I'm now super stoked because now I have my actual dream job or this actual circumstance happened it's like when you break up with a partner and you're like heartbroken and you're like I'm never going to love again and it's like the worst thing ever and then you find new love and you're like I know exactly why it didn't work out with anybody else like I think it's so

important because in that circumstance it was a blessing you just couldn't see that it was a blessing yet totally so I think that's kind of cool and just knowing yourself and your strengths and what makes you a good candidate is just really really important and you're so right like you can learn something from everything and sometimes not getting the job it's in the best interest of everybody. Yeah. Like it's not good to be extended a job that you wouldn't thrive in. And hopefully that person that was interviewing you is being super pragmatic and, you know, really thinking about whether this is the best fit for you and the best fit for the company. And sometimes a no is actually a good thing for you because it wouldn't have been a good fit. Absolutely. And I

would much prefer you to not get the job at the start, then struggle through probation and trying to make it happen and then not making it and then it knocking your confidence even more like how awful would that situation be yeah them saying no no worries I think sometimes just you know knowing your worth knowing who you are and what you're looking for is really really important because we forget so often that when we are putting our best foot forward we're not just doing it for that company we're doing it for ourselves as well absolutely like you are doing it for yourself so that you turn up and you get the job that gives you the things that you're looking for and you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you even though that power

dynamic in that moment feels like they're the ones super in control you can say no that's so true you can say no you can ask them a million questions like if they don't give you the opportunity to ask questions to me that's a bit of a red flag like them not giving you the opportunity to say, oh, well, what about this, this or this? What are they hiding? Well, no, not just what they're hiding, but like, well, why aren't they giving you an opportunity to ask them questions? Because they should know that this is a two-way street. Sure. I think this is a perfect time to go to a quick break. Couldn't agree more, my friend. And on the other side, we will deep dive more. I love it. Let's do it. Okay, V, we are back and we're talking about interviews. Very

scary subject. How do we reframe that from scary into exciting? Yes. I think by the end of this episode, people will be excited. Did you know that the chemicals released in your body when you are scared of something are the identical chemicals that are released when you're excited about something? Is that so? It's just about perception. Wow. It's how your body interprets it. So you actually, when you're really scared or feeling nervous or anxious and you know, that deep sense of anxiety that you sometimes get, you could reframe it and go, oh my gosh, far out. Like you could go down a rabbit hole. I'm so anxious. I'm so scared. Like my hands are sweaty. Like I feel sick. This is the worst. You could reframe that and go, oh my gosh,

I am so excited. Look at me. Like I can't stop like being anxious about this. Do you know how good that is? Like you can just reframe it into I'm excited instead of anxious. Whoa. I'm going to try that. I mean, it's a hard pill to swallow when you're genuinely being anxious, but I also think that understanding that that's the same chemical and you can channel it into a different thing. Like I'm so excited. And do you know what that means? That means you care. How good is it that you are going to an interview and you care so much about that role? That's good for you. That's good for the organization. Like being a little bit nervous is good. To me, another red flag, Bec, when people

come in and don't give two shits about the role. Oh, you're not anxious. You're not nervous. You're not worried in any way, shape or form. Okay. So you don't care that much. Yeah. Okay. I like the idea that you might care. I don't want anyone to be anxious around me. I don't want anyone to be scared or afraid or any of those things. But like, I think reframing this like pre-interview anxiety as actually care a lot about this. And that's a really good thing. Totally. I really like that. So what are your tips for reframing that and kind of getting more excited rather than anxious? I think it's important, but also you can't do that without practice. Practice.

Practice makes perfect. Absolutely. Doesn't make perfect. It actually just makes me feel more confident when I do deliver it. And I mean, one thing that I said before is not overly practicing your responses. So when I said, oh, practice, practice, practice, that's important. But what we're not going to do is script our responses because so many times if you're scripting your response, you're not actually listening in that interview. You're waiting to hear trigger word to trigger that response that you're going to go off on a tangent.

And then me, if I'm interviewing you, I'm going to look at you and be like, that half addresses what I was talking to, but I don't think you were listening. And that sounds like a pre-scripted response. What I would actually prefer in an interview situation is for you to stop and think about the question that I've just asked you. I'm not judging you on your response time. Like something that is really powerful in a interview situation is silence. Silence is golden.

Yeah. If I ask you a question and you take a second to think about it, great, you're making considered responses. I think a lot of people in interview circumstances are scared of silence and they just feel like, oh my gosh, Beck asked me the question. So now I really needed to respond really quickly. Otherwise they're going to think I'm silly. No, they're going to think you're silly if you waffle on and on and on. But if you took a moment and then had a relatively well-articulated response that hit the nail on the head to the question, you were asked, cool, she's a smart individual doing

cool things. Silence can be golden. It doesn't matter if it's one or two or three seconds. Do you know what's even more powerful? Give me a second. I hadn't really thought about that question before? Oh, well, actually, share your thought processes. And I promise, one, you'll be more confident, but two, you'll be able to come up with a better response. And that does not mean I don't think you should practice. I do think you should practice. Obviously, rehearsing common interview questions and how to respond to them best that makes you feel confident is going to be good. Do it in front of a friend. If you don't want to do it in front of a friend, do it in front of a mirror, because I promise there's nothing more confronting as

somebody who does a lot of public speaking is listening to yourself and practicing in the mirror oh my lord I do not like doing that but I promise it helps get me to a point where if I'm then on stage I'm really confident with what I'm delivering because I've seen the way my body is acting yeah I've seen how I'm presenting it and if I'm like hunched over a little bit I'm super aware and I like put my my shoulders back and I kind of keep myself in check but practice because it's going to help you clearly articulate your thoughts and clearly build confidence in your responses but I think that instead of just being a robot who like flies off the handle with a really well articulated response giving it a few seconds and really thinking about the question because I

promise the question is going to be asked in a very different way than what you've practiced yeah so they might say you know what are you most passionate about but they'll say it in a different way and you haven't practiced that and making sure that you're really incorporating the question is really important. Something else when it like just psychology tip, I suppose, is to reframe the question while you're answering that question. So you might go, hey, Victoria, how's your day? And I could respond, good. Oh, actually, Bec, my day has been and kind of respond using the question. So one, you're reiterating to the interviewer that you heard the question correctly, but two, it makes your response sound a lot more well-rounded. It makes you seem like you absorbed

that question, you took it in, you reframed it and you spat it back out and answered it. So instead of me responding, yeah, I'm good. You're responding, oh, well, actually my day has been really good. And then you can, I guess, expand on that. It's called reframing and it's literally just a psychology. Do you want to call it a technique or just concept? Reframing, Google it. But it's this idea that when you reframe a question that's being asked of you, it immediately makes the person that asked it of you feel like they are more heard and they are being listened to. Really easy. Doesn't take any type of intelligence or skill, but if you reframe it, you can make them feel like they're really heard. And that's something that requires practice. And

you were talking before, you did an interview where it was role-played. In my degree, when I did psychology or in both of them, role-play was such a big part of it. And it used to make me so uncomfortable, like role play with one of my other fellow students, like a counseling situation. I hated it. By the end of it, I was really, really confident with it. But like we did a whole semester where our job was basically to reframe a question. Right. So hard. It sounds really simple, but when you're in a situation that is relatively under pressure, like we could role play a few now, but in the moment you're like, oh my gosh, how do I reframe that? So it's open ended. How do I reframe that so that they feel like their own feelings are being reflected while

being respectful? Right. Like can be challenging and that's why practice makes perfect, my friend. Yeah, I love that. And also just like be yourself because I feel like a lot of people go in there and they are quite maybe like for lack of a better term robotic and they think that they have to hide their, I don't know, their own little quirks and little things that they do so they can fit this like cookie cutter mold that they've created in their own head but really just be

yourself like as you say I feel like a lot of places do like to hire for cultural reasons like they want someone who fits their cultural vibe so being yourself kind of helps them know you and helps you know them the way they respond to you you know 100% like let's dive deeper into that I have ADHD I have a lot of friends who are on the autism spectrum like being transparent about that to begin with, I think is really important. And I think a lot of the time, having had conversations with my friends, we hide those things. And in reality, those things can actually be our superpower. Like if there's something you struggle with, or if there's something that, you know, you might be on the spicy spectrum and that's good. Same babe. Like

it's actually one of those things that makes you more you, but also adds so much value to the culture, to the business, to having a different perspective. Like that is something that I value so highly and I know lots of other people do. I mean, if you get into super corporate, you know, I don't want to get too many people offside, they might actually want a cookie cutter. And do you know what? If you pretend to be that cookie cutter, your emotional energy going to work every single day is going to be so high. You're going to be so burnt out. You're not going to enjoy that job at all because you're pretending to be somebody you are not. Yes. That's not hot. That's not good. That's not good for long-term career success. Being yourself is so genuinely

important and I mean understanding social norms is really important in these circumstances but also being transparent and explaining hey like you know one of my girlfriends she's not good at visual like cues and not good at body language like she doesn't read body language very well and sometimes I have to be like oh yeah that's bad and she's like oh really and I think explaining something like that at the start and being like hey this is something I really struggle with so if I seem a little bit like distant or a little bit this or a little bit that like that could be it. I promise you, I'm really excited to be here. Yeah. Everyone's on the same page. How frigging great. Yeah. V, I absolutely love that. Obviously, you know, asking considered questions

and being a little bit aware of your non-verbal communication, like your body language, as you said before, V, what would you follow up with? What's your last tip of the day? Again, fluffy, but I think it matters. Gratitude. Follow up with gratitude. I love that. Both ways. Both ways. You Thank yourself for putting your best foot forward and go, I did a really good job. And even if you didn't do a good job and you walked out and you're like, I ruined that interview, be like, I am so glad I showed up for myself. I'm so glad I did that. I learned something today and it was to do that not again. Like, and I get that because you know what, we're going to have circumstances in life where that happens and I'm not going to pretend it's all sunshine and roses,

but being gracious and being kind to ourselves is so important. But also after the interview, send a thank you note or an email that expresses your appreciation for the opportunity absolutely i think just it demonstrates that you're a professional and it leaves a really positive impression regardless of how you thought the interview went you think it flunked thank them for the opportunity you think it went really well thank them for the opportunity you're not sure how it went thank them for the opportunity exactly regardless of the outcome whether you get it or thank them for the opportunity yeah and it's crazy how many people don't do that then you're like it's radio silence like i get that you're waiting for next steps from the employer

and i mean i wouldn't follow up every single day and be like hey i'm really grateful for that interview just wondering what the outcome is like that's not it like sending a really nice email following the script of hi beck thank you so much for taking the time to interview me today really appreciated it. Loved getting to know more about your company and to give you the opportunity to learn more about you. Can't wait until we next connect. Yeah, Victoria. Like something that doesn't, and I mean, you're probably not going to get a response from this. And I wouldn't expect one because if you expect one, you're probably expecting a bit too much. Recruiters are really, really busy, but I promise they'll see that and go,

what a breath of fresh air. They're not following up asking for feedback immediately. They're not asking for anything. They're just saying, hey, thanks for that. Really appreciated that you took the time to spend it with me. Because at the end of the day, I think a lot of times we walk away from interviews and, you know, you said it before, you were like, it was not the right fit for me. It was awful. I don't even know I was there. You were there because you definitely ticked their boxes enough for them to want to get to know you. And like, that's a really positive step in the right direction. Totally. So even if it wasn't a positive outcome, we are so grateful for the opportunity because that's going to either be, as my mum would say, a blessing or a lesson.

Perfect thing to end on. I love that, Vy. All right. Good luck, everyone out there. If you're going to an interview, if you just had one. Tell me about them too. Tell me about them in my DMs. It's my favourite. I love knowing about you guys. I love being part of the community, but then also, I'm your hype woman. I promise. I've got your back. I love it. Me too, also. And good luck and go forward with these very wise words. Have a good week, my friends. We will see you on Friday. Bye. the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your

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