She's On The Money - Nailing a job interview 101

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

Have you ever wondered what EXACTLY is going through an employer's head during a job interview? Well luckily for you, we have Employer Extraordinaire Victoria Devine here, and we're going to crack her brain open and have a look! She's sharing all the tips and tricks for how to navigate and NAIL your job interview. If you fancy doing a bit of research beforehand, check out Glass Door (not sponsored - just good!!!)The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. For most people, job interviews are painful, nauseating experiences that, while essential, are an experience that ultimately we wish we could avoid. They're scary, Jess, they're scary. They really are. And of course, there are exceptions, and some people out there love having the opportunity to talk about themselves under a high-pressure environment.

We are not those people. For most of us, absolutely not. Job interviews are terrifying. If you fall into that latter camp and are terrified of job interviews, or even if you're eager to know what employers may want to hear, today's episode is the one for you. My name is Jessica Ricci, and I don't hate job interviews, but they make me super anxious. And so today, I'm chatting, as always, with financial advisor and my employer, Victoria Devine.

Hello. Hello. What a coinkydink. I know. How convenient that you're my boss and also my podcast buddy today. cute but why do some people like myself find job interviews so daunting while other people just seem to totally thrive oh my gosh how annoying is it when you've got one of those friends that just thrives under pressure and does really well in job interviews i was never that person i always

used to get really anxious and really nervy and i remember always walking into job interviews when i had them and i would like wipe my hand on like the back of my hip before um like shaking someone's hand because I literally would get like sticky fingers and I was always so embarrassed and I'd wonder and I remember like walking into job interviews and I'd be like okay don't munch off your fists because then they will like be more sweaty so I always remember just being so aware of that and that is so weird to remember now but I think we all go through it but at the end of the day like some of us are good at that and some of us are not so good at that and there is no right or wrong it doesn't actually mean that you're going to be better or worse at the job like some

people just interview poorly and that's okay but hopefully at the end of this episode we can leave you with some tips and tricks so that you can be a better interviewee and be one of those people that just walks in with an air of confidence even if you're not that confident actual goals um can i start off by being super nosy and asking um how did i go when you interviewed me for my job because i started you're like i'm sidetracking this yes absolutely yes you started last december and you were a really good interviewee were you nervous was that absolutely not so I met Ryan first and Ryan has a really fantastic quality about him where he naturally just puts people at ease yes um so I met Ryan who obviously brought me down to you and I definitely was really nervous

because I just wanted this job so desperately like I was like the stars have aligned like many other people I had a horrible 2020 and I was just like I have gone through a shit year to come to this place and if it hadn't worked out I would have been so sad I can't even tell you my heart well you were an angel you were such a good interviewee and it's one of those things that the thing that I liked most about your interview is probably not the part that you think I liked the most what was it you were obviously very articulate and really good at explaining what you were really good at and like explaining what you could do for she's on the money and I was really impressed but the thing I liked most about your interview was that you told me what you

didn't know and you were really clear about what you didn't know and you explained to me exactly what that meant and what training you would require and how much you were willing to put into growing that aspect because I remember you said hey Victoria in the job description it says I need to do x y and z and I'm actually not that great at z because I haven't had enough experience or enough exposure to this and to mitigate that I'm going to need to do x y and z and other business. Would you be willing to support me doing that? And I just remember being so impressed because so many people come into these situations and they go, okay, cool. Let's just avoid talking about the things I'm not so good at instead of, you know, going front on and just like hitting it

in the face and going, no, I'm not, I'm not good at that. Because at the end of the day, as an employer, I'm not actually looking for you to be a wizard and some kind of superhuman person. I'm just looking for a really nice team member that can join my team and grow with my business and add a lot of value to my business and that's exactly what I saw and um why you got the job my friend ah thank you so much I feel like as well like the flip side of that is like we all pad our resumes or you know elaborate on things as a trend this is new not me personally of course but do you know what I mean you really like go into the nitty-gritty and fill it up and make sure that you're making yourself sound your best and brightest of course there's a big difference

between doing that and like outright lying or implying that you have a skill that you don't and so I'm pretty sure for me it was excel like I'm not an excel wizard which when I sit next to you it makes me feel 10 000 times worse because you're so good at it um but like if I we do you have taught me a lot master classes and you're slowly becoming a wizard absolutely but if I had come into that interview and been like, Hey, like I saw you needed Excel. I'm like incredibly proficient. And then on day one, you'd sat me down and said, Hey, can you please put together this really fancy spreadsheet? Like the one in the budget and cashflow masterclass, I would have died. I wouldn't have known what to do. I would have been so anxious. And so I feel like by just

being upfront in that interview, you avoid all of that because the expectation is already set that I will need help in that space. Yeah. And I think that that makes everyone feel far more confident and capable and it just makes sense to be honest about your capabilities but moving on enough about me you and your interview let's learn how we can all be better at interviews what is your first question for me jessica um so i guess before you even get to the interview i'm assuming there's some things that we can do to prepare ourselves to make sure that we're feeling really ready to go once we actually step through the door what kind of things can we do beforehand to set ourselves up for success. A lot. And I think that a lot of people just don't think about this enough

because we just get a little bit anxious and then talk about the interview with our friends instead of empowering ourselves by doing a couple of these things. So the first thing I would do is research the company. So even if, let's say it's for like Adore Beauty and you guys know how much I adore Adore, but I know about the company, but I really want you to deeply research it. Like who is their ceo understand what she does how she does her job why she started the company understand her ethos do a bit of research what blog articles exist the second thing that you can do and i feel like this is like a second thing that you can just not do and that's script your responses so there is nothing worse jess than getting into an interview with someone and you

ask them hey jess why would you like to work here and then they start spouting out what you know is like a pre-record of their response but it never hits the nail on the head with the question that you asked and I just feel like doing your research and fully understanding your own capabilities and maybe doing a couple of like mock interviews with yourself in the mirror so that you feel confident answering questions ad hoc instead of okay cool well if they ask me this question I'm just going to respond with this pre-scripted answer that I have because that's the best answer I have because I really want to prove something. Like often, if you're interviewing someone, you see straight through that. And often it just feels like they were trying to do something with

that piece of content when it really didn't hit the nail on the head with what you were asking them in the first place. So I would really avoid doing that. And the third thing that I would do is actually organize some questions that you can ask them. And there's no shame in writing them down in a little notebook and taking that along so that you can feel prepared. It'll also show the person that's interviewing you that you really did think about this in advance and saying, actually, I did have a couple of questions noted down. Do feel like you've probably answered a lot of them, but here are a few questions that I have when they ask, because there's nothing worse than finishing an interview and going, Jess, thank you so much for taking the time to come in and

answering all my questions. And I was just wondering, do you have any questions for us? and you go, no, thanks. Hope you have a good day and leave. I go, oh, okay. No problems. Like I want to hear questions from you, but I was going to in this part, cause like I wrote a few notes before coming into this podcast to record, I was going to list out a few questions that I thought were applicable, but Jessica, did you not work in executive recruitment? I did. So what are some questions from your perspective that I could ask a potential employer about the role or about the company? I have two that I think are really good go-tos and they're pretty much applicable no matter who you're speaking to. And they also are kind of something that's not super likely to be

covered off in your interview because there's nothing worse than when you pre-prepare your questions and then they've already answered it. Oh my gosh, I know. How bad is it? And you're like, Or, um, no, I have no questions. You actually answered them all. And they're like, yeah, you're just saying that. So I feel like it's always really fun to ask, uh, what would a day in my life in this role look like? And it's really good because it'll give you a bit of a sense of, is there a really strict structure or process that you're going to follow day to day? Or maybe they'll let you know that they're really flexible and happy for you to set things up in

a way that works just for you. So in addition to making you look like you're interested, It also gives you some really valuable information about how you might be working in this space. Genius, which I love. So what else can we ask? You can also ask about growth and opportunities within the business. So if you walk in and they say, oh, any questions for us at the end? You can say, oh, I'd love to know what opportunities are there for me to grow in this space or what leadership opportunities are there?

because it one demonstrates that you're really keen to grow and develop and you have a tenacity to kind of improve yourself as an employee but it also shows that you're picturing yourself there long term because realistically it's very rare that you'd walk into a job and it'd be exactly what you want to do for the next 30 years of your life so showing that you would love to stay at that business providing they're able to support you and encourage you and then again it kind of gives you something to aim for when you come back and have your performance reviews or your yearly reviews because you go okay cool like I want to be you know five steps ahead of where I am now what do I need to be doing to get there yeah I love that and I suppose there's a lot of questions

that they're going to ask you in the interview that you need to prepare for um do you happen to have an idea of what the most common questions asked are and how we can kind of answer them in the best possible way yes Jess and no Jess no I haven't done this from my experience because I feel like I never stick to the scripts that quote employers are meant to stick to in interviews and you could probably attest to that for sure but then on the flip side I did a little bit of sneaky research before this podcast recording and according to our friends over at seek there are actually 10 common questions that come up that you could prepare for to feel a little bit more empowered number one is tell me about yourself hate that question classic but like

how bad is it when someone's like hey jess could you tell me about yourself and you're like i don't know where to start do you want to know do you want to know that i'm a cancer yeah like a cancer and a rising moon like what one do we want but i think that that is the opportunity for you to explain that you're just a passionate engaged person and you're looking forward to doing the job they don't actually care about your relationship with your mom or how you grew up and to be honest as much as I would love to hear about your money story in an interview, I don't think other employers would want to. The second one is what interests you about the job? So this is a really important question that could actually put you ahead of other candidates. Cause some people

would be like, Oh yeah, I heard she's on the money's a nice place to work. But on the flip side, you could say, Oh my gosh, like I know your content. I know your vibe. I know your community. I really understand what you're looking for. And I followed your job description. And in this, it was perfect for me. And so I'm just super interested in it. The next one is what did you like or dislike about your current or your previous job? And to me, this question feels like a trap, Jess. It feels like a trap because they're trying to work out why you left the last role. And even if it's for a really organic, really real reason, sometimes people will be a little bit too candid and that can not be that good of a look if that makes sense like you might

be the nicest person in the entire world but by saying I'm leaving a toxic work environment like my boss terrible person could just not be that flattering and I know you don't want to risk them thinking negatively of you based on your past experience exactly so in that situation I'd probably lean towards like oh my gosh like I just saw this opportunity you know I've got a good job but I didn't want to pass up being able to put my hat into the ring at such a great company. There are a lot of ways to get around it, but really good reason right now to start thinking about what you would say if people asked you that. The next is why are you leaving? And I feel like that leans back to my number three. Then number five is what do you know about our company? And

this is where your research is going to pay off and you're going to be able to explain not only are you a company and you have X amount of employees, you could talk to culture. You could talk to how cool the experience of the people who lead that company is. And I think that that's an opportunity to showcase that not only are you understanding of the company, but why you would fit well into that company. The next question that is very common to be asked is why do you want to work with us? And I think that that's a hard one to answer, especially if you're in the market for new job and you're like, your ad was on seek. I just want to leave my current job and I want to earn money. I'm done with my toxic boss. Duh. Like I'm done with my boss and I also want a job that

pays me money. And I looked at your description and you're going to pay me more. So like, that's a pretty good reason. No, my friends, it is not. So I think understanding company culture and that, you know, you've got really great growth opportunities at that business or something along those lines is far more preferable. I feel like that's a good time to, if you found anything in your research around values alignment. It's really common nowadays for businesses to have a mission statement or some kind of commentary on their website around what their values are as a business, if they're really sustainable or something like that. And if that aligns with something that you're passionate about, that's another really good chance for you to say,

oh my gosh, we'll care about the same things. And that would make you a really appealing and engaging employee. Exactly. And then number seven and eight, I think are linked. And number seven is to me a lot easier to answer. And that is what are your strong points, which you can obviously have a little bit of a think about. Number eight, though, is what are your weak points? And this can be a fickle one because I don't want to hear, hey, I'm actually really bad at the job or, hey, I'm just really bad at time management because that's not something I as a boss want to hear? So you've got to be really strategic with this question because it's not truly asking what you are bad at. It's, hey, what could you improve at that impacts this job? So if

you're really bad at time management, I'm not saying don't tell people, but like if that's something you're not currently working on, potentially pick something that you know is a weakness, but you also have an action plan in place to improve. And I think having that action plan is how you counter being like oh this is a weakness but i know and i'm prepared to work towards improving it exactly secret that's the secret and it's one of those things that nobody tells you when we're going through these questions because often when it's like oh what are your weak points you're like oh i'm too committed i'm too committed to work or they say oh i'm just really bad at work-life balance like i love my job and yeah you know no one's buying that no one's buying

that i know you made that up but then also um on the flip side this is 2021 and i think a lot of employers are very similar to me in that my view of work is probably a lot different to 50 years ago's view of work where you should be really committed to the company and do your nine to five monday to friday but yeah i believe jess and you would know this about me that i think it's one of two things. If you say that you are working too many hours, I have either as your employer overloaded you with work and therefore I need to change it. Or on the flip side, I've been like, oh, Jess is working 60 hour weeks. Maybe she's not that good at time management and she needs to make it up. So either you're good at your job and you're getting it done within the allocated

period of time that I've given you to do that job or it's me. So I feel like it's one of those things where it's actually not that impressive to say you work a 60 hour week these days when your work week is actually 38 hours because it's either poor management or on your part, poor time management. And I think that from that perspective, we should have good work-life balance. And Jess, you and I know that sometimes we don't have good work-life balance, but it's one of those things that we talk about and we work on and we're going through together that from my perspective, it's really important to be open and honest about. the next one number nine is what have you learned from your mistakes i feel like that's a good one

that's actually a really good question it's a really good question also gets you to learn a little bit more about yourself if you're preparing with it and then number 10 how much do you think this position pays that's sneaky that's sneaky and i'm of the opinion that if you are the interviewee you don't want to put the number on the table first. So Jess, if you said to me, hey, Victoria, what are your salary expectations? I would very likely turn around and say, hey, Jess, that's a really good topic. In fact, I've done a little bit of research around what this role is worth in the market, but I'd love to know what budget your business has allocated to this particular role. Put the ball back in their court to put the number on the table first for a couple

of reasons. One, your last job and how much it paid is not a reliable predictor of what you should be paid in the future you should be paid what that job is worth not what you have been being paid because you could be going like for like role but they've allocated a significantly higher budget and you go oh well actually victoria i'm happy to accept fifty thousand dollars a year and they go money win the budget we allocated was eighty thousand dollars and you're kind of like cutting yourself short but on the flip side it lets you understand their expectations and you might be able to say, hey, Jess, well, actually, I was under the impression that this job was actually worth $85,000, not 80. Is that something we could talk about and build on? Because you deserve to

get paid. Full stop. End of story. Jess, what's the next question before I get on another rant? We have now kind of covered off on what to do beforehand and what questions to kind of expect. but what do we do on the day okay so first things first my mum always told me i don't know if this is legit but like judy knows her stuff right guys dress for the job you want not the job you have and i think that that is really important but dress in a way that is suited to the industry and it shouldn't ever matter what you wear to a job interview but it does and research actually tells us that it does and there's a study that came out of the uk and it said that six in ten managers say an interviewee's dress sense has a big impact on their employability and if you're

ever wondering my rule of thumb is overdressed don't underdress because if you're overdressed people go wow like she put a lot a lot of effort in and you know she's gone above and beyond and is dressing you know maybe really corporate and we're a bit more casual you can dial it back but if you turn up in you know your sweatpants or yeah something with a stain on the sleeve or you look like you haven't put a lot of attention into your personal appearance for arguably one of the most important steps or meetings within a company to be hired what are you going to be like once you're employed is kind of their mentality and it sucks that appearance factors in but because we know that it does from all of that research i feel like if you're ever unsure go further and

above and beyond rather than you know erring on the side of more cash yes there is a great quote that says you can never be overdressed or overeducated. And I adhere to that very strictly because I genuinely think that's not the case. And Jess, feedback, you were beautifully dressed at your interview and now we just wear jeans to work. So it's very true. It works. All right. And then next one is arrive early, like not like hours early, because that's just awkward, but make sure that you are five to 10 minutes early and know that the interview starts the second you walk into that building not when you go into the interview room so treat the receptionist well and literally everybody well I don't think I should have to be giving this advice but do you

know the amount of times I have met people and they haven't been nice to the receptionist and then I'm like best friends with the receptionist and after the interview they're like oh she wasn't that nice was she and I'll be like what are you talking about and then they explain to me their experience and I'm like oh interesting noted cross them off the list exactly like you've got to remember that regardless of who they are they are worth your time and I don't care who they are or what job they do I promise you if they're already employed by that company they have a better relationship with their CEO than you do my friend so don't treat anyone terribly which shouldn't be advice I have to give but do you know what I've experienced it quite literally next breathing

exercises. I know this is really lame, but take a big breath before you walk in or you get out of the car because you need to be calm and remember that like this is an opportunity. It is not something that should be stressful. And if you are stressed, let's channel that into excitement because how lucky are you to get to go to this interview? Not how anxious am I to have to go to this interview, right? Like we want to change our mindset. And then once you're in the interview room or I don't know it was like what did we do Jess we got a coffee once you're having a coffee or in your interview try and establish a little bit of rapport with your interviewer obviously within reason if they're back-to-back interviews and it's very serious and very corporate and very

professional like maybe it's not the time or place to be like hey how's your day been so far but asking them about their day complimenting the office space saying something that gives them sense of who you are or the sense of humor that you obviously have is a really great way to break the ice and feel a little bit more comfortable on your behalf. And are there any other tips or tricks that we can maintain once we're in that interview space? Okay. Yes. One of them is eye contact. I know it can be really awkward. So scary. I know. I know. And like, don't stare them down in their eyes, but I often pick up space on their face that I'm really comfortable looking at. So like between the eyebrows or something yeah unless they have a really bad monobrow in which case

you probably don't want to stare at it no that sounds really mean but I often pick in the middle of their forehead because it never feels like I'm staring at you but it's always that point of reference to go back to to make sure that you are making eye contact because that's really important in an interview but then also we want to appear confident right we don't want to appear as though we are super nervous even if we are and we also don't want to downplay our achievements so saying things like and yeah at the end of all of your sentences is really bad and it makes you sound like you are not as confident so refraining from saying things like and yeah at the end of sentences is going to help you greatly because your sentence is impactful and it's important

and saying something like and yeah on the end is actually only going to downplay what you've just said. It's really interesting because we see this a lot in women specifically, even once you're in the workforce around sending emails, for example. We tend to use softening language to make the other person feel comfortable and say, oh, I was just wondering or I just thought. Just get that out of your vocabulary right now. We don't say just. And I remember really early in my employment, I was working on some copy for something for is the money and I don't remember what it was specifically um but I was using a lot of exclamation points and like a few of those like downplaying like language phrases and you said

to me your language should speak for itself you don't need to downplay what you're saying or make other people feel comfortable just say what you want to say because I guarantee you that's what the men are doing and I was like what what do you mean and I think yeah like it really speaks to your confidence. And I understand that as women, we're so conditioned to kind of put ourselves on the back foot or put other people first. But if you can start to eliminate that from your day-to-day language, you would be shook at what a difference it makes and how empowered it can make you feel. A hundred percent. And I think that that goes for every day life, not just interviews. Saying the word just is so disempowering. And I'll often pick people up in

our office which you know jess i'll be like hey cool do you want to rephrase that like i want to hear that again and i'm not being condescending i'm not being rude i just feel like it is my job to point out to you when you're not doing yourself justice and sometimes people will say oh victoria i just wanted to check how are you going with that report instead of saying hey victoria i need that report because one of them is confident one of them is tiptoeing around and i don't think anyone should have to tiptoe around a relationship, a job, a situation, like nothing. We don't just need to check. You need to check because that's actually your job, my friend. Own it. So I suppose going over those things, I've seen a lot of people talking in the group about the star method for

interviews. Do you know what that is? Yes, I do. And it is actually perfect if we are one of those people that really want to plan for an interview and have those pre-prepared answers. But as I said, pre-prepared answers aren't going to get you the job, but having a framework is. So the STAR method is actually a framework that we can all adopt for literally any type of question. And STAR stands for situation, task, action, and result. So that is the way you're going to frame your response. So when you're asked a question and you're required to provide a specific example, you're going to think situation. So you explain what the situation is. Then you're going to think task so what was your responsibility in that moment then you're going to think action and

you're going to explain the steps that you took to address that situation and then finally you're going to round it out with the results and explain what your results were based on your actions and keeping this in mind is going to help you stick to short sharp answers that are grounded in real life experiences as opposed to waffling on for a while and then like trying to loop back to the point because you're nervous by having a framework and deeply knowing that framework you can immediately go okay cool break this into four what was the first thing situation task action result and then you know you've comprehensively answered that question so instead of having a pre-prepared response you've got a pre-prepared framework and you can put your actual life

and actual examples into that little framework and make yourself look like a legend okay so we've prepared for the interview we've done our research we've gotten through the interview we've gotten over our nerves we've used the star method to give really comprehensive responses and we've walked out of the interview we're done we've shook their hands or we've tapped their elbows because covid life or whatever the case may be do we send a follow-up email or a call or flowers or oh my gosh don't send flowers what is the protocol no um i think different horses for different courses like everybody is going to tell you something different in this particular situation but if you're asking me i'm not someone who calls because i know that that could be really awkward

maybe they haven't gotten through all of their interviewers like when you get on the phone what are you going to say like hey thank you so much for taking your time i was just wondering about my application like i i don't want to have a full conversation but i do want you to acknowledge it because that person took the time out of their day to meet with you, I think acknowledging that is really nice. Don't do it the second you walk out so their phone pings as they're walking back to their desk. But later that day or that evening or even the next morning,

sending just a really nice thank you note to the person or the panel who interviewed you, explaining that you really enjoyed meeting them, you're thanking them for taking the time out of their day and for the opportunity, I think is really nice with absolutely no, hey, could you just let me know how I'm going in the process? Like, that is not the intention of the email. The intention of the email is to express gratitude and just say, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day. Really appreciated it, Jess.

You'd be surprised who remembers that as well afterwards, even if you're not successful, that courtesy will often sit in the memory of people and you never know when you're going to interview with them again. Exactly. Well, we'll be back after a very short break to chat through a few more of the specific curly questions that you might want to prepare for your job interview all righty so this one can be controversial v should we be asking about the salary in the interview and about things like career progression or does that make us look a little bit dodge i don't think it makes you look dodgy and it's fickle i think you have to understand the situation and make a judgment call in the moment for me i don't want to ask about salary up front and i

never have but also what if you're going for this job and you're expecting it to be eighty thousand dollars and you know that's the amount of money that you need to earn because you've got a family and you've got kids and that's the expectation and then you know you get three interviews in and find out their budget's 50 grand like neither of those are bad salaries it's not the thing but you were going in with an expectation. So I think asking is really important. I love when you go through a recruiter, not because it is an easier process. Like as an employer, I don't love using recruiters, but if you're working with a recruiter, have a chat with them about salary and you can get that done off the bat. You don't even have to ask in the interview, but if you're not, I think just

measuring it, seeing how it's going and asking, but not saying, Hey, how much does this job pay? but saying, Hey, I'd love to have a chat about salary expectations from your business's perspective. Like what is this role worth is a really good way of putting it on the table without saying, Hey, Jess, how much am I going to get paid? Because you need to come across as though you're asking for the right reasons, not just because you're hoping to get money out of the situation. And I know that that is hard because we are a money podcast and we're all about empowering you. But I do believe that there is a right and a wrong way to ask that question because you also want to be taken seriously but also you want to make sure that you're on the front foot not going

oh yeah um i'll just take whatever you're paying like you need to be assertive and have that conversation and i think that that starts with you doing your research before going in and before having that conversation like there are so many different tools and resources out there i know there is glass door seek has some really good examples of what a job is worth if that particular job doesn't have a salary on it either, I would look up similar salaries on SEEK and see what other jobs are paying for very similar roles. Then there's also Hayes. They are a recruitment company and each and every single year they release a salary guide for what on average those employees in Australia are being paid. And it's actually really comprehensive and really helpful,

but there are a number of ways for you to find out what that role is worth and then base your conversation around that the only thing I would say to completely avoid is sharing with the interviewer how much money you're currently on because that is not relevant unless you're actually on a really really great salary and you're just like for like yep cool like I'm currently being paid 80 grand and I would like to expect the same I think is fine but if you're increasing in salary I don't think it's relevant to give an idea of what you were being paid you're going to give that interviewer the idea that either you're worth less or your expectations should be less because well she wasn't being paid that much before and that's not fair and that is not

reasonable like you should just be paid what that job is worth from my perspective agreed so janelle from our group has done her fair share of interviews over the course of her journey and she said that when she interviews people she likes to see confidence but not arrogance and she said we need to remember that the employer needs you almost more than you need them. You're an employer. What makes candidates stand out? I would agree with the confidence, not arrogance. Like there is a line and I think that being confident in yourself and being confident in your responses doesn't need for you to be arrogant. Like arrogance is very easy to spot and it actually puts me off completely. Like I don't want someone arrogant working for my

business because my employees are a reflection of me as a person like if I don't have a nice team then I can't be a nice person right like I would want people to experience and this maybe is just too deep but I feel like it has served me well thus far like at the end of the day Jess you are a reflection of my business and me as a person and I know that you should separate your work and your personal life and stuff like that but with what I do especially at She's On The Money Like, it's so deeply connected to my own values that, of course, I want people in She's On The Money who are exactly like me or who are on the same wavelength. And, you know, everyone in our team is so different, but they are all at a base level kind and honest and true. And I would say that nobody on our team is arrogant.

But I think it's really important to remember that the thing that makes a candidate stand out for me is just honesty. It is honesty. It is truthfulness. It is kindness. It is not actually their skills. it is not their ability but something that really puts me off is arrogance is that bad to say no i think that's very true and i think as you said like you don't want to hire somebody that you know is mean or that's not going to slot in and make your other employees uncomfortable so that's

completely relevant um and i guess now in 2021 especially covert life zoom interviews are so incredibly common at the moment and it's a lot harder to engage with people when you're talking to them through a screen are there any tips that you can give us that are applicable to zoom specifically yes and these are just general housekeeping things not not things to do on the actual zoom call so first things first be prepared so just because it's on zoom doesn't mean you don't need to prepare as much you still need to do the same research you still need to get dressed up i like i know in the age of zoom we're very good at like business on top party down below where we're still in our like yoga pants or our pajama pants. But for me, I feel like if I'm doing

a presentation, I feel so much more put together when I put a whole outfit on. I feel so much more confident. Like give yourself that gift of confidence and get yourself ready. I know that it can take a little bit more, but like it's worth it because it's your first impression. And I know they're not going to see your pants, but it is absolutely the confidence of wearing a nice outfit right then I think it's important to log in early I'm not saying be on zoom waiting for them staring at the wall awkwardly but make sure that you're sitting at your computer five or ten minutes early and that everything is in check if you need a glass of water putting that there and actually setting up your environment then I would make sure that I test zoom so if you google zoom

test you will actually come up with a zoom test link so that you can test zoom from your house without having any repercussions so you can make sure that the sound is okay you can make sure that the video quality is okay you make sure the lighting is good lighting is so important stand in front of a window if you need to drag your desk around so that everything is well lit and it looks appealing to look at that is great because there is nothing worse than doing a zoom with someone you're kind of like squinting to see them because the light is behind them and their faces shadowed out you want to give your potential employer as much opportunity to read your face and read your language and read your body language and understand you as a person and good lighting

is going to do that it's not just because you'll look cuter but you obviously will look extra cute with natural light and make sure that you're asking if you've got housemates make sure they know you've got that interview on and they don't just like pop into the lounge room and start making pancakes behind you, like ask them to be respectful for that period of time and prepare them. Because I know in 2021, in the age of Zoom and COVID, it's very common to house share, but also make sure that they're prepared. Then making sure your background is neat and tidy. A white wall is absolutely perfect. But if you do have things in the background, making sure that they're not too personalized, making sure that they're not taking the attention off you. And if you're

like me, and you have a whole heap of pets, make sure they are locked in another room or put outside for that day because you don't want them coming and getting in the way of your interview, no matter how cute they are, I promise. All right. And before we finish up, V, rejection is a part of the game. It's a really competitive market out there right now. And I just want to say, it's not a reflection on you if you don't get the job. It's really tough out there right now. But are there any things we can do to kind of help us deal with that feeling that you're going to get when you get rejected being rejected sucks it doesn't matter how prepared you are or how perfect you were it's actually not about you it's all about them and i think remembering that is really really

important and not thinking that it was for nothing like think about the experience you would have gained from that that was a really high pressure situation and i'm sure you absolutely killed it maybe think about the areas that next time you could improve on but also kudos to you doing an interview is tough. And the more we do something, the more comfortable and confident we are. So we know that the next interview you go into, you're going to be even more prepared. How good is that? Next is don't be afraid to ask the interviewer about how you could improve for future interviews. So I think accepting rejection gracefully is a talent that not enough people have. So for example, Jess, let's say that you didn't get the job with me and you had done an

interview with me and ryan you'd met we'd had a coffee together i think when you get that rejection email instead of being like oh no and not doing anything about it i think responding to that email is actually really important you're not begging for the job you don't want to change the outcome but like thank you so much for taking the time to let me know that that's the outcome of this interview i really really enjoyed meeting you and your company i'd be very happy for you guys to keep my resume on file because I would welcome the opportunity of a role if it ever comes up and I'm the right fit again but then also saying hey if you have the time would it be okay if you gave me a little bit of feedback around why I didn't get the role so that in the future I could

improve on those skills and they might come back to you and say hey Jess there's actually nothing that you could improve on you were actually so good it's just that we had an applicant who had far more experience than you yeah and that is such a great outcome because then you know well actually wasn't me like somebody else got it and I'm so happy for them because at the end of the day like they're gonna flourish in that role and that company got exactly what they needed it's not a reflection of you and I think that if you did do something that maybe turned the interviewer off I'd prefer to know so that I don't make that mistake next time so from my perspective asking for feedback is really important but only asking for feedback when you've actually done an interview

is important as well because often you'll find that people send their resume off and it's riddled with mistakes or it doesn't fit the role description properly and you never heard back. Asking for feedback in that situation I don't think is appropriate but definitely if you met with the person and actually went through the interview. I think the most important thing here though Jess is remembering that this is actually often completely out of control like all you can do is put your best foot forward and prepare and remember that it's not always about you being bad not getting the job is not a bad outcome but at the end of the day something better is coming and i'm a very big believer that if one door doesn't open for you we just need to wait for the right

door for you to come along so jess i do think that that is all we have time for today but just before we head off we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to australia's aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness. The advice shared on Shiz on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. Shiz on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria

Devine is an authorised representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Pty Ltd, ABN 34132463257, AFSL 339151. We'll see you next week, guys. Bye.