She's On The Money - Navigating Shared Finances

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

How great is love?! How great is money?! Today we talk about combining the two, in a way that won’t sabotage your savings OR your relationship - yeahhh we got you.If you or someone you know is experiencing financial abuse, you can contact 1800RESPECT on 1800 737 732 or they have a chat function on their website too.Our very own money wizard and fearless leader Victoria Devine has written a book! Click here to order!Love the pod but looking for a more hands-on approach to your money? Look no further. Our budgeting & cash flow masterclass is the tool you need to help overhaul your finances for good. Join Victoria as she steps you through your budgeting and cash flow with all of the smarts and none of the intimidating jargon. Finally, if you're in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we've got you sorted - simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast! The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Is that still relevant? It's not just millennials. It's like lots of other people too. For everyone who wants financial freedom.

It's not as catchy. We can't change the catch. No, we can't change the catchphrase. The catchphrase? Okay, well, we won't do that. Say millennials, but we mean everybody, guys. Should I do it again? No, absolutely not. Let's carry on. So navigating money is a tricky business and things can get a whole lot trickier when you're navigating it with your partner. For example, how do you figure out how to balance the bills without micromanaging and souring the relationship? I don't know. Am I going to have to answer this?

Maybe I'll help answer it. All right, that's good. How do you share the load if one of you earns six figures and the other one's doing an unpaid internship? Well, I'm not in that situation, so I don't know how. And very importantly, what do you do if you have very different money goals and values? Surely you can answer that one. Yeah, I can try. Goals and values. I can try. All right. My name is Georgia King and you've heard her several times already. Joining me today to answer the tough questions is Victoria Devine. V, before we do get into it, do you have any particularly juicy stories about relationships and finance? I don't know if it's juicy, but I did have money issues in one of my relationships

historically. It wasn't a massive, awful issue, right? It was just, we had differing incomes. So I was still at university and my ex-partner was not at university and was really smart. So I had a really high paying job and I wasn't. So that's why I kind of was like, oh, I don't know how to answer that when you said unpaid internship and six figures, because that was literally my situation. But the tough situation was that he wanted me to contribute 50-50 and that just wasn't financially viable because he could save massive amounts and I couldn't. And it just ended up putting us in a position where we would argue all the time about, you know, wanting to do things and me not wanting to do things. And, you know, we lived in a really nice apartment because that's

what he chose and wanted to live in and I felt like it was just a really big financial stretch and I was working my butt off to feel like I didn't have much left at the end of the day because I was doing uni full-time and then working in hospitality and then also working in retail on the weekends because hashtag Sunday pay but all of that wasn't really making me feel like I was contributing to somebody who was earning a significant amount more and you know it wasn't the crux of our relationship and I'm not dramatizing it much, but I think that it's important to talk about because that's a situation that I know a lot of our community has been in. Okay. So 50-50 is an option. What are some other ways of managing money in a relationship?

Gee, managing money in a relationship or with our lover, as you've written in our notes, is very hard and it's not one size fits all. In fact, personal finance is just that. It is personal my friends and not every single person is going to manage their money in the same ways i have friends who manage it completely independently i have clients who manage it independently i have clients who manage it together the way i manage my money might not be the way you and harps manage your money and i think that that's cool it doesn't actually matter how you do it as long as you are comfortable with it and both parties in whatever relationship you are in or maybe there's more than two parties in the relationship it doesn't matter everybody just

has to feel like they're on the same page. And that starts with communication. It starts with talking about your money. It starts with talking about what you want to do with it. And to do another fluffy episode break here, it is about not only understanding your money story, but also understanding your partner's money story deeply. Because if you feel inherently different about money to the way they do, you're not going to be able to understand the way they make money decisions and you're always going to be like oh but why does he do or why does she do or why do they always do that with their money I just don't get it and for you to understand that you actually need to go back to the way that they were raised so lots of people in our community have suggested

having a joint bank account which can be a really great idea in fact our friends over at up bank have just recently done their two up series it's not like the other shared bank accounts we have to go into bank and you have to set it up and sign for it and if you and your partner don't see eye to eye anymore you don't have to march them down to the bank to sign off on an account that you don't want together anymore they have this two-up feature where you can kind of like invite them to be a game player in your joint account and then you run it together and you have the same responsibilities and it's just much easier and to be honest their branding's really cool and maybe that's what's selling me but it's not I just think the feature is really cool and

also low-key sharing too much personal information that's not about me it's actually about Jess her and her partner have just started using it and she's really liking it. So that's Jess's first joint fund with her boyfriend. Oh, that's, that's a big step. Yeah. She's going to talk about it on the pod soon. We've been talking about it. That's why I'm sharing it because it's not a secret, but she's really liking it. And I actually, I think that that's a really cool way to do it because it's like having a joint fund, but it's kind of less of a commitment. So you can use it for other people too, like your housemate or your roommate without actually having to establish an entirely new bank account which look it can be an admin drama but it can

also just be a really a really big pain so joining finances by having a joint account can be a good idea because it means that you both function independently when it comes to money both have your own income and then you have a set amount that you choose to put into a joint account and then some couples actually have all of their money going into one account and they share their finances completely. And this is not a good or a bad way to go about it. It is the way I manage money with my partner. And I'm open about that because I have nothing to hide. But then also, I just want more people to have more conversations about how money is managed and what that looks like and just how it flows. I'm not asking you, hey, Georgia, how much money do you earn?

Because that's not the conversation at hand. It's just how I manage my cash flow. And that's kind of interesting. And it also helps me when I know what you're up to, because you might have a good idea that I haven't thought about and money conversations can only empower us if they're had in that way so everything goes into the one account and then we jointly make decisions on that lump sum of money instead of talking about what I bring to the table and what he brings to the table and for us that works really well and for some of my clients that works really well especially when they do things like go on mat leave because they don't feel like they're not contributing to the family anymore because they always just had their money and they're not talking

about what Georgia earns versus Victoria earns and what have you earned and how can we do this? It's always just, okay, well, this is our income together. So, it's different for everybody and I can't harp on about that enough, but there's a lot of different ways to manage finances. And in fact, you might decide that you don't want to manage finances at all with your partner and you just want them to tell you what half the bill is every month and that is what it is and you just are independent. That is also completely cool. There is no right and no wrong. Back to the way you manage your money with your partner. Oh, you want me to give the answers.

I see. I want to know from your perspective what elements of risk there are in doing that because obviously, yeah. So how do you safeguard yourself from those risks? Because, you know, we're all about empowering women to build up their careers. Exactly. And I'm very glad you asked that because it can be a really bad step for a lot of people. It can lead to financial abuse. it can lead to so many things occurring that you might not want to occur. It can leave you to feel

like you're not as independent as you deserve to feel. So for me personally, I have my own bank account still. I have an emergency fund that my partner can't touch, sucker. And we have both joint access on that account. And at this point in my life, I feel really comfortable for him to have that. And we have this mortgage together and the account that our money goes into is actually an offset on our mortgage so that our money's working as hard for us as we do for it and all of the other stuff that I usually pipe. But for me, I think having that emergency fund off to the side to make sure that I have access to money 24-7 that nobody else can touch or take away from me is what helps me feel like, okay, like if the proverbial ever hit the fan, I'm okay. I know

why that works for me. I'm not saying it'd work for you. So that's where I think joint accounts are really helpful and you might actually combine finances completely but never choose to get paid into that account so it might come into your own personal bank account and then every single month you make the decision to transfer it manually to a joint account so you're managing money together but there's that hurdle to make sure that you always are in control of your income and it's not going into somebody else's hands automatically and that's a really important step to take. If you split from a legal perspective would you just cut it in half is that how it works? From a legal perspective, it always starts at 50-50, but then it goes back and forth

in percentages depending on what the personal situation is. I'm obviously not a lawyer, so I can't pass too much comment on that. But the thing about the law is when you're going through a separation with your partner, they don't necessarily care too much about the law. And we've all heard about people who have had their bank accounts cleaned out by their partner. And you're right, you can go down the legal track and hopefully recover that at some point, but you in that moment and at that point in time have no access to money and that is the problem it is not okay well you know down the track they'll get it back like your partner has left you stranded in that situation I think that's really important to talk about because it can

happen and you do need to be really vigilant so let's move on here V at what stage in the relationship should you talk about combining your finances I saw in the Facebook group that it seems to be when people move in together or buy a house, which makes sense. Is that usually the time? Can I say never? Yeah. Yeah. So the answer is never. You never should have to talk about it. You can talk about it, but it is not an essential relationship step. If you want to manage your money independently, you do that friend. I don't want you to feel like, oh, I'm going to move in with this guy. I guess we should do this. If it makes sense to then have a joint bank account to pay for bills or to pay for it go for it but I want people to feel like they can maintain their

independence and not be reliant on somebody else or have somebody else control their financial future like what if you just don't want your partner to see your bank statements you're not trying to hide your purchases you just feel uncomfortable with it that's your story to tell it is not somebody else's to just get access to it and being in a relationship is a privilege like you are sharing yourself with somebody else they should always have respect for you your decisions your body your choices and if they don't respect that you just want to manage your money on your own like that's a massive red flag to me so there's no time that you should but there are a number of times that you might want to start the conversation personally and that's okay it might

be moving in together it might be getting a mortgage together you might have some debt together you might have a child which means you've got this big expense now that you're both jointly responsible for. So someone wants to cover it. So I think it is really important to realise that you don't have to have a conversation about combining finances, but you do have to have a conversation about is money. You have to talk to your partner about money. You have to be on the same page and you do have to understand what their view is and what they want to do and understand why as well. How do you have that conversation? You just go, hey, Georgia, how do you feel about joint finances?

On date one? Yeah, just on date one. Actually, I've got this survey right that I used to take on dates. It would be like, what's your income? What's your ability to earn income in the future? Are your parents wealthy? Yeah. All those really important questions that you ask on a first date. But no, can you imagine if people were asking those questions on a first date? Not only is it super invasive, it's really weird. And I don't want people to feel like they have to start that conversation. But if you think it's starting to get serious with somebody, that money conversation should start early on. Understanding that money conversations I had all around us at all times. They don't necessarily have to be about you. They

don't necessarily have to be about like, hey, Georgia, what do you earn? Like, I think it's more about like, oh, don't feel like you always have to get it. Like, I don't know your money situation. Giving people permission to have a conversation with you about money is really important as well. And they're only going to want to talk to you about money if you've made them feel really comfortable to do so. And often that starts with a level of vulnerability from you because they might not be ready for it. I don't think throwing questions like, so what do you think about money is a good idea to begin a money conversation. But talking about your own finances with them is like, oh, so I've got this bill coming up and it's really stressing

me out because like, oh my gosh, I completely forgot to do my cashflow this month or whatever it is. But starting with yourself can make other people feel really comfortable about opening up. And for me, that's a really good way to do it. All right. So what if you've worked yourself up to have this conversation you've had the conversation and you're not on the same page so you have very different money stories he might really want to travel the world that's what he sees for his money for the next five years he's going to put that towards travel probably not the best idea given the world situation right now but you might really be planning on buying a home one day how do you how do you figure that out if your goals are very different so money goals are a

reflection of your life goals and what you're telling me is that partner wants to travel the world and you want to settle down and have a home and those two outcomes are very different and I think that needs to go beyond just a money conversation and that's why money is so hard because it really makes you question what you want from life when you start talking about budgets. It's not just the budget, it's not just what you spend on groceries each week, it's asking you what do you want to save for and that can feel like a really overwhelming question when you just don't even know where you want to be the next weekend. So when you're talking with your partner about money stories and what you want to work towards together I think it's important to be

on the same page with them in general like what do you want to achieve in life because your partner might actually really want to buy a home and you might want to buy a home but they've just fallen in love with this idea of moving overseas and working in London for a couple of years and that's this romanticized idea in their head that you know you guys could achieve together so understand why they want to do it is it that they want to travel because they are in love with that idea and then want to buy a house or is it because they want to become a digital nomad and not actually own a home like what is the meaning behind that goal and what do they actually want to achieve and are you going to be part of that is that something that you actually want to achieve

and money goals can be hard because they do make you question a relationship they do make you question well if he wants this and I want that like is this really going to work out and I'm not going to sit here and tell you, well, you have to get on the same page because that's irresponsible of me. I don't think you have to get on the same page at all. I think you have to work out what you truly want and find a partner that is on the same page as you and supports that. Because let's go back to that example you've got. If they say, yeah, but Georgia, I really want to go overseas and just see the world for a couple of years and then knuckle down and save. I can understand that. Are you in for that though? Are you happy to compromise your goal of saving for

a home to put it off for a little bit longer until you can both afford it? Every single relationship is always going to have some level of compromise in it. You can't just get exactly what you want all the time. And I think it's what compromises am I willing to make for my partner? And what am I not willing to compromise on? Because if you are so hard and fast about buying your first home in five years time and your partner's not on board with that it's not going to work but if you're like yeah but like my goal is to buy a home and then my partner really wants to travel ah I feel so stressed why don't we put that home still in the plan why don't we just put it further down the track so that we know you're still going to achieve your goal your partner still gets to

achieve their goal and you get to go on this journey together and that's where negotiation comes into it you need to be able to talk to your partner and go look that's not the biggest thing for me, but I can see it's really important to you. And if you are in a relationship, you obviously care about that person and want them to achieve the things that make them happy. So that's where I think you should be coming from with it. But if you find that your partner and you are coming to a complete impasse, I think that's a deeper problem than just figuring out a budget, let's be honest. Okay. Debt, Vicky D, what if you've had this conversation and you learn that your partner has crippling amounts of debt. This was a topical conversation the other week in the Facebook

group and everybody had such colourful responses. Yeah, it got really heated in there. I had to step in a couple of times and be like, excuse me, we don't talk like that in this house. What was happening? Oh my gosh, I should have put so many people in timeout. I feel like the mother hen of that group sometimes. No, I think people were just getting really opinionated because they wanted what was best for the original poster without considering what the original poster actually wanted and I get it and I do too I get really heated like if I found out that Georgia you were going through something like I know you so much more than I know your partner who I still haven't even met so I'm obviously going to be like oh my god get him

out I don't want to talk about that I want to look after Georgia and that's what the community was doing and they were like we'll get rid of him because the partner had debt that he hadn't disclosed in reality this person actually really cared about their partner and could see why their partner hadn't disclosed that debt yet because they carried a lot of shame with it and they were probably embarrassed and they hadn't brought it up yet because money is so hard to talk about so it is a really hard conversation to have I think it's about a genuine hygiene check at the start of a relationship but start the conversation really softly don't ever start the conversation in an accusatory way by asking them a question that could cause them embarrassment don't start

it by going hey Georgia do you have personal debt because if they don't they'll go no and you've asked a closed-ended question that doesn't carry on the conversation but you've also asked a question if the answer was yes they might feel really bad about that and you haven't had any money conversations with them previously to make them feel like you are comfortable having that conversation to make them comfortable with that conversation so that you are constructive and helpful and they know they're not being judged so I think it's about you showing up and proving to them that you're a good person to talk about money with and if push comes to shove and you've been talking about money and dropping hints, like, yes, you can ask that question. I don't think

it's a bad thing. In fact, I think it's really important and really healthy for you to go, hey, I was just wondering, do you actually have any personal loans or personal debt or anything like that? It's not a bad question to ask, but I wouldn't ever start with it as the initial question. Flip side of that. Yes. What if you're the one coming to the relationship with debt? Oh, I did that. Yeah. So that was the situation I was in. And I've spoken before about how when I was much younger, I had a level of personal debt and I was really embarrassed about it. I hated it. I felt like it was a reflection of my poor money management and maybe I'm not a responsible person. And back when I was the ripe old age of, I don't know, I was probably like 23,

24, I felt like it, I felt like my life was getting serious, right? Like I had my first serious job. I was single, I was dating and it felt like I was, you know, maybe looking for something more serious. So then to feel a little bit out of control and feel like I didn't have my shit together it was disempowering for me so I didn't know how to have that conversation and I didn't hide it but I didn't talk about it so it wasn't until further down the line when you know push came to shove and we spoke about it and I don't think at that time I told him how much it was I think I just said yeah I've got a personal loan and like I pay x amount on it but to me that amount actually really significantly impacted me so when I met my partner I think I was earning

maybe like 65 or $70,000 a year. I definitely wasn't, you know, making hundreds of thousands of dollars. And the monthly repayment of my personal loan was probably about $700. So that was a lot of money, especially for me who was living in a share house with my best friend and her brother at the time. And I was paying what, like maybe $1,100 in rent. So like a lot of my, a lot of my cash flow was going towards this. So I wasn't exactly swimming in it. And I felt like that was really restricting me, but I also didn't know how to ask for help with that. And I also was not making additional repayments. I wasn't prioritizing it. I was just kind of pretending it wasn't happening. And in reality, I should have had conversations earlier. So if you're in

that situation, I'm only sharing this because I know people are going to resonate with it. And to be honest, it's really helpful to know the semantics of a situation. So my partner didn't worry about it and it was never a point of conflict but I know for a lot of couples it might be really incumbent on what is going on they might go oh my god you didn't disclose that I don't think it's a bad thing that you didn't disclose it yet it just means you weren't comfortable with that but if anybody ever gets up in arms with you about not disclosing something earlier have a think about why you didn't and maybe try to clearly articulate that to your partner and that will help the situation significantly because a lot of people go oh well I don't know

I don't know why I didn't tell you. Stop, take a breath, sit back and go, do you know what? I just genuinely was really embarrassed about that. I'm sorry I didn't tell you. Okay. So continuing on this debt line of chat and V, is it ever okay for you to help your partner out with their debt or vice versa? Of course it is. It is okay. Of course it is. There's no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to you managing your money and making decisions about your money. I'm not going to judge you on the purchases you make, Georgia. I'm not going to judge you on the way that you want to allocate your funds in line with your values. If you want to help your partner get out of debt sooner, then fantastic. But the thing I don't want you to do is then have that

hanging over the relationship. Like if you are getting them out of debt because you see it as the right thing to do and then the relationship ends and you've spent five grand getting them out of debt, I don't think that's a good idea. I think you should be getting them out of debt for the right reasons and sometimes them just paying it off over the long term and then managing it individually is the best thing that can happen like you don't have any responsibility over that and it is a really hard conversation to have because some people will be of the mind of okay well now you're in a relationship it's your money yeah and I just think in 2021 that's that's not the case at all you're right legally what's yours is mine and all of this other stuff after you've lived

with someone for a period of time they do become your de facto and we're not talking legally here We're just talking about what is fair and reasonable and only you and your partner can decide that. Sarah from our group asked what you should do if one of you is earning lots of money and the other one is earning not a lot of money, be that like an entry level job or like an internship. Yeah, you just are like focusing this around Victoria Devine's personal experiences to get her entire financial history onto a podcast.

I feel like it's very coincidental. Yeah, it is very coincidental, but I genuinely feel a little bit awkward when I start talking about conversations about me, not because I'm ashamed of sharing them. I just don't want you to think I'm self-centered, but I'm sharing them because I genuinely think they'll help. But that was the situation I was in, as I mentioned before. And I think it's a fickle conversation to be in because let's be honest, let's stereotype for a hot second here. Usually it's a male earning a lot more money than you do and you are either in uni you might be young and be doing an unpaid internship or a grad role or you know still studying at uni and working casually like

whatever you're doing you often idolize that person in a way like wow they're so grown up they're so put together and you just feel like you should be saying yes to the things that they're saying and if they're asking you to contribute 50% often I see people just pandering me like yeah of course I'll pay my way like I just want to contribute and we do just want to contribute they're not forcing us to do that and often it's just a conversation of oh we'll just split it 50 50 yeah because it sounds like the fair thing to do but I think it's a deeper conversation of well who's driving this decision and who's actually talking this through because if you earn a hundred thousand dollars and your partner's earning fifty thousand dollars for example is it fair if you

don't share finances to move into an apartment that the partner who earns a hundred thousand really wants to live in and then expect the partner who earns $50,000 to contribute the same amount to when in reality you are stunting the person with the lower income's ability to save and invest and feel financially confident. I just don't think that's fair. So the way that I've worked with my clients to do this is by a percentage base. We've worked out that okay no problems like that's a decision that that partner wants to make. How about I pay 30% rent and you pay 70% rent because you have a much higher income than me and I still have financial goals I still have things I want to achieve I still have you know expenses that I need to incur and I actually

need some free cash flow and I don't want to feel like I'm a slave to this rental payment that comes out each and every single month because that in a relationship is going to create a very high level of resentment and no one wants that in their relationship and if your partner genuinely wants to support you they'll be all about making sure things are genuinely fair and genuinely fair does not equal 50 50 it never does that's interesting so I agree with everything you've said there obviously not in a position to disagree you absolutely can disagree with me because I don't want you to think that what I am saying is absolutely 100 the right thing to do like I might be factually correct when it comes to statistics and financial information but a lot

of this especially in today's podcast is personal opinion and you know I do clearly have a voice it's on this podcast but it doesn't mean it's the right thing for you I just don't want people to think that my way is the only way like there is so there are so many options out there and I do want you to consider all of them I guess yeah what I would question V is again shoes on the money is all about empowering women, upping our education. So if we have worked our butts off to get to this high position and we're earning bank, and now we are combining our finances with a partner, is it okay to not necessarily feel comfortable with copping 70% of the percentage and they cop 30%? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, is it okay to feel a bit protective over your finances?

You absolutely can. I'm not saying you actually need to split it in a different percentage. I'm saying if you're the one that wants the more expensive rent and you're asking your partner who has the lower amount of income to kind of compromise and cough up more rent you should be covering that bill but if your partner can't afford it and they say look hey sorry sorry gee I can't afford to pay that much rent now it's your turn to compromise if you're not willing to compromise your money yeah that's fine let's get somewhere cheaper where we can afford to pay 50 50 let's not make that decision let's not go out for so many dinners we don't have to split things unevenly if that makes you feel uncomfortable it's not about that at all

it's more about hey I think it's really reasonable if one's making more than another and wants to make a lifestyle decision that's not necessarily financially viable for the other person I think it's about what works for you personally and I want to put that idea on the table because too often people think it's taboo to ask their partner to pay more or for someone to be you know not splitting it evenly when in reality it is just fair to be able to financially contribute especially in a romantic relationship where you're working towards the same goals and if the situations were reversed and I was in the position where I earned more money I love my partner he's so great I would never want him to feel like he wasn't achieving anything I wouldn't want him to feel like the

life we lead is stopping him from saving and following his dreams and I feel like if you put yourself in their shoes it actually just makes sense you should want the best for your partner and if you don't why you're in a relationship with that person perfectly said there be all right after a very short break we'll be getting into what to do if your partner is maybe taking advantage of your generosity we'll be talking about how to walk the line of being firm without being naggy and there'll be plenty more in there as well so please don't go anywhere all right back into it v my issue oh not my issue just my hesitancy is that a word yeah that can be thanks all right good so you're a journalist you can make a word yeah yeah totally journalist in

training clarification micromanaging is a really horrible trait and no one wants to be in a relationship with someone who is like naggy or controlling or has the tendency to micromanage nor do you want to be that kind of person so how do you find the balance between having control of your financial situation without coming across as a drainer does that make sense I think it's about having the conversation really early on also things like that if they're a red flag to you they're a red flag to you I think too many times we're willing to compromise on red flags because you're like oh it'll be fine because they're so nice and we just see sunshine and roses at the start of our relationship which is exactly how it's meant to work but it's just really disappointing

because then we get a couple of years into a relationship you're like oh god they are really naggy and you just didn't notice it at the start because it didn't annoy you enough but I think it's really important to have the conversation early on and have it in a way that you're setting expectations and that you are saying look this is how I want to run my financial life and this is what I want to do and definitely don't be the nagger so too often do we assume other people should be doing things without looking at ourselves and what we want to do and I think that role modeling the type of behavior you want in a relationship starting with you is really important and often your partner will reflect the types of ways that you're speaking to them

and you won't realize and then you won't like it but it's actually something that was occurring in the relationship before and I'm not always saying look it was you but when I look at my relationship if I'm annoyed about something, I probably set that expectation and then I kick myself because I'm like, I did that. That's so annoying. But I think being honest about it is really important. So when conversations about money with your partner do come up, I think just trying to come from a place of love, like I always say, and just really respecting each other rather than approaching it in a passive aggressive tone is really important. It's going to set the conversation up for success instead of being a bitter one. And it's also important

to have that conversation. So don't just not have it because you're uncomfortable because if you don't have a conversation because it makes you uncomfortable, that uncomfort turns into resentment and that is not what we want in a relationship. Yeah, that is a quick way to end a relationship, I would have thought. Yeah, so if you don't want to be in a relationship, do that. Yeah. What do we do if it feels like our partner is starting to take the mickey or take advantage a little bit? Bonnie in our group, she mentioned that she's pitched in a lot for her partner over the journey on things like rent, holidays, car upgrades, that kind of thing and she felt that he had started to kind of rely on that generosity. What would you do in that situation?

I would be looking at the boundaries that I've set and really trying to understand how we got to this situation. I don't think it's about immediately confronting your partner, I think it's about really looking at well how did we get here. It's often due to you being just too kind and too generous and it's not a bad thing, it's definitely not something to be embarrassed about but how did we get here and is my partner taking advantage of me on purpose I think there's two different ways that this ends up happening one they just take it for granted because it's just been happening and they're really comfortable in that relationship and they didn't mean it and if you brought it up they'd be horrified to know that they were making you feel a little bit

uncomfortable and it'd revert back to you know being a really equitable relationship very quickly and then there's the people who are genuinely taking advantage of you and unfortunately they will gaslight you and make you feel like that wasn't the case and oh you did this and that and the other so I think you need to understand before even having that conversation why that's happening so you can be clear on it and then working towards resetting that boundary and talking to your partner about okay well here's my expectations I'm feeling really uncomfortable about this you know putting your values on the table and say this is what I value and this is what I do and sometimes just being really blunt and saying I don't want to do this anymore and I think you're

well within your rights to do that you don't owe somebody a free ride you absolutely do not and you don't want to live your life feeling like somebody else is taking advantage of you you deserve honestly you deserve to be in a relationship where that other person respects you and loves you and supports you in every way and if that's not the relationship you're in like I would be questioning it yeah and if if they react badly to that then that's probably a pretty good sign maybe it's time to get on out. Catch a friend. Catch a friend. Okay. Just a little trigger warning here. We're just going to spend the last couple of minutes of the episode talking about financial abuse. So if that is something that is quite sensitive to you, just leave the podcast

now because this is pretty much the end of the show. We still love you. We'll see you next week. Yes, we will. V, on a more serious note, if our partner is being controlling about the way we spend our money? What do we do? I think this is a really important question to address and speaking about financial abuse is something we need to do a lot more of. We've done a whole episode on it before and controlling money is definitely a form of financial abuse. And I know we got a lot of feedback from that podcast, which was really positive. And I also have some people who've messaged me and they're like, so sorry, Victoria, I listened to every single one of your podcasts, but I couldn't listen to that one because it would trigger me. And I get it.

it is really hard to talk about because it sucks and it's the worst and it happens over a long period of time and financial abuse is not what you think it is it could be in a relationship where it's romantic and it's a you know a husband and wife and it's that stereotypical rom-com movie financial abuse relationship or it could happen in a sibling relationship it could happen with parents it could happen with your grandparents it could happen with literally anybody and financial abuse creeps up on you it's not something that just immediately starts happening someone isn't going to just walk up to you georgia off the street and start you know taking all your money away from you it's this slow wearing away of your confidence and your ability to feel independent

and feel like you're in control and feel like you know what you're doing sometimes it's you having access to your money completely so you're like but it can't be financial abuse because i completely have access to my money but somebody else is controlling the decisions you make around your own money and that is a form of financial abuse and unfortunately it happens all too often and too many times people don't feel like speaking up or you know talking to somebody about it because it's not in their minds quote real abuse because they're like well he's not hitting me he's not yelling at me he's not you know it's just it's just the way he works oh he's just a bit more controlling or you know they just want it to be like this because you know he's a really type a

person and I'm using him here because I guess it's really stereotypical to be that but it could be a female it could be a male it could be a them it could be anything it's not there's not only one way of this happening but I think having this conversation is really important and to know that it isn't normal if you're feeling really underconfident about making money decisions because you're worried about what your partner is doing or if you have to call your partner before making a money decision. Now, I'm not saying, hey, Georgia, if you have to call Harper to make a money decision, like that's financial abuse. Because you know what? My partner would be so angry at me if I went out and spent $600 on a new Apple Watch and just came home with it.

Because we have financial goals we're working towards together. So there are like, let's be honest, it's within reason. Steve's going to be pretty mad if I come home with really big purchases that I haven't planned for that are compromising our goals and what we're trying to achieve. He's not going to be happy. That's not financial abuse. But if I wanted to go out for drinks after work with, you know, you and have a wine and, you know, we spend $50 because we got some wine

and a cheese platter and then I went home and he's really angry at me about that, I would be really worried about why that's the case. So there's different levels of what this means and I guess that's why it's so hard to determine what is and what isn't financial abuse because our money stories are all so different and that's why you need to understand your partner's money story. So I know a situation and it's from our community again and I've been talking to this person in my DMs

and her partner hates when she spends money. It's not financial abuse, it's just because they grew up and they didn't have any money growing up and they just are so worried that, you know, the extra groceries here and there are going to add up into them having really bad financial habits and they're just trying not to go down that route. It's not because they're trying to control them

and that's something they need to work through genuinely because it's impacting their relationship and it's creating animosity and it's not a good thing but that's not financial abuse that's just somebody who's really stressed about money that needs to go through probably a fair bit of therapy to get through that I think there's a lot of different red flags and they are all going to look different but at the end of the day if your confidence is waning if you feel like you're not in control if you feel like you're losing your independence in any way to me that is a big red flag of financial abuse. It's not a particular monetary value. It's not anything that I can articulate beyond that. And if you are in that situation, you can call our friends at 1-800-RESPECT

on 1-800-737-732 or it's 2021. So they have a really great chat function on their website that you can have an anonymous chat with them and we'll link all those details in the show notes. But I think it's really important to remember that this can actually impact anyone. And for sure. And remember the money diary on the financial abuse episode yeah that was actually between a mom and daughter it wasn't between a husband and wife or a boyfriend and girlfriend or a girlfriend and girlfriend it was actually between a mom and daughter where the mom was the financial abuser and she's had to go through years and years and years of therapy and she wasn't in a situation where money wasn't there it was actually there was so much money there and there was a lot of

control and expectation around that money yeah so it goes both ways it's not about not having enough sometimes. So every relationship is different. And when it comes to financial abuse, it might just not be that stereotypical financial abuse relationship you might expect it to be. So I reckon that's a pretty good place to leave this episode, Georgia King. Absolutely, V. So I guess the main takeaway from today's show is keep the communication line open, as open as you can. There's no one size fits all kind of way of doing things. And just make sure you look after yourself yeah absolutely and if you've got any questions you can always reach out to the she's on the money team and we will always always always direct you in the right way to get

you the help that you need because sometimes it is really overwhelming to call 1-800-RESPECT and you just want to ask a friend my friends we are that person absolutely v let's leave it there so just before we head off we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to australia's aboriginal and torres strait island of peoples they're the traditional custodians of the lands the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay our respects to Elders past and present

and we share our friendship and our kindness. And remember, guys, that the advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Devine is an authorised representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management, Proprietary Limited,

ABN 34132463257, AFSL 339151. Oh, you got through all of that without stumbling. No, girl. You're so fancy. G and I will see you next week for another deep dive. Bye, guys.