She's On The Money - Pink Tax: The cost of being a woman

Episode Date: September 22, 2020

What is the “pink tax” and how is it holding Australian's back? Today we reveal all. PLUS, we chat the disgrace that is the 14% gender pay gap that still exists in Australia, and we sit down with Dr Hannah from the amazing reproductive health podcast: Uteryou, Uterme, Uterus, who helps us answer your questions on the real cost of women’s health. Head on over and listen to her pod here (it's one of our favs!!!)Want to purchase Victoria’s online budgeting and cashflow course? GREAT decision from you. Just head here. Love the podcast sick and want more SOTM? We had a feeling that was the case. Join our Facebook page to share your money wins and money confessions, follow us on Insta for daily inspo to keep you on track and absolutely subscribe to our newsletter, the written recap of the pod’s key takeaways, including some bonus bits you won’t want to miss.Finally, if you’re in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we’ve got you sorted – simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast!Your hosts are Georgia King and Victoria Devine.The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Georgia King. I'm a copywriter and journalism student. And each week I sit down to chat oat milk and money with Melbourne-based financial advisor, Victoria Devine. Hello, Georgia King. Now, speaking of divines, on the day of recording, it is Victoria's younger sister, Alex Devo Devine's big birthday.

It is indeed. And we wanted to send our well wishes to the big woman on this very special day. It is a very special day. She's getting a shout out instead of a birthday gift this year. So you're welcome. It is a gift that we'll keep on giving. She's literally going to hate this. Anyway, money wins.

Today on the show, we're going to be delving into an issue faced by every Australian woman. That is the very subtle, very sneaky pink tax. Now, the pink tax, of course, refers to the extra coin women are made to pay for essential items like razors, clothing, beauty products, and more, despite there being no actual difference beyond the branding between these quote-unquote male-female products. Then later on in the show, we'll be sitting down with Dr. Hannah from the brilliant sexual and Reproductive Health podcast, you to you, you to me, you to us, who will be answering some of your questions on the price of women's health. So it's quite a large show we have coming up,

guys. But before we do dive in, Victoria, let's talk money wins and confessions from the week that was. What have you got for me? So it is very hard to scrape from the bottom of the barrel to get a money win, but I bring you my best money win this week. And that is that whilst it is Alex Devo Divine's birthday it is or has been this month my partner's birthday as well and obviously you buy people gifts on their birthday I was kidding when I said Alex was only getting a shout out but maybe I wasn't who knows but I needed to purchase him a gift and usually I would just head to Chadston and purchase some stuff that I know that he liked or was looking for and not put too much thought into it but my money win is that I haven't been able to go to

the shops so I had to online shop but by online shopping I managed to get the best deal and I feel like this birthday I spent less but got him more and I'm just really happy with that. So that is my money win and it's not that sexy but turns out if you put some thought into actually purchasing gifts you end up spending less. So probably not that revolutionary but turns out I needed to learn that. Georgia King have you got a money win or confession for us this week? Yeah look I've got a bit of a double once again. I've got the money win and I've got the money confession. Money win is that my laptop is still working. You guys might remember last week. Winner winner. I did pour a half of my coffee onto my keyboard it was an accident of course and these things do happen

but it didn't work for the whole day and then it kicked on again at like 5 p.m so I'm not going to look into that I think it's fine I think it's a win okay that's really nice for you Georgia I'm very happy the other part is a money confession which is that I just randomly bought these sandals yesterday don't even know if I like them but I was just really feeling like the flatness the fatigue of Melbourne's lockdown my friends in other states are just having the time of their lives and I was like no i'm gonna buy these full price sandals even though i constantly tell people not to buy things full priced but it's gonna help you went ahead and just did that i'm glad we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel for our money wins and confessions but i'm here for it that's

all right we've still got it good yeah georgia i keep seeing everybody in other states having a really fun time i follow a fair few people who are based in sydney and please stop posting how much fun you're having at bondi i'm envious but then further to that can you guys please stop asking how my weekend was like stop it feels like an attack oh it was great I didn't leave my house again anyway let's move on before I get really riled up but for everybody in every other state except for Victoria stop asking your Melbourne friends how their weekends were it's not acceptable 100% 100% so yes Facebook group time now before we talk through our favorite posts as we always do the community has been going I think it's safe to say bonkers over the online course Victoria can

you talk us through what's been going on they have I didn't even know that the word bonkers was still in use in 2020 but here we are does he rascald up you guys are you kidding Georgia King Georgia King you are absolutely correct I am feeling this week so grateful for all of the love that we have been receiving on the online course not only did you guys really embrace the fact that I was releasing an online course, which I'm super, super excited about. But you also got on it early without having seen the content and, you know, really believed in me when we did the pre-sale, which I was so, so excited to do. But now that the course is live, I am being overwhelmed with these beautiful emails from people just saying how much they're loving it or asking

questions about the course or where they're up to or about their money values or money stories. and like I am loving it Georgia we've also got another private Facebook group which you can only join if you are doing the online course and that has been going wild as well and I'm really really loving that there's the one thing that's bringing us all together and we've all got questions about it someone the other day was like oh I'm really struggling on my money values piece like what other values have people listed and people are being so open and so sharing and I'm just so grateful for this community like I know that sounds really lame but I love you guys and like I just think that we're all friends and I love it but can we move on before I get all like sappy

and grateful and stuff? Are you tearing up? No I'm not actually tearing up but like I just feel like I'm a sappy sappy wad of sapness today. That's all right we need that at the moment but talk me through your favorite post from the week in the main group. This week Mikayla posted money win DIY highlights feed my boyfriend. Now she wasn't keen on spending big money at the hairdresser anymore so she went and bought herself some products from Price Attack with their guidance. She spent about $130 all up including a good treatment to look after her hair after she bleaches it and guys this is wild she actually bleached it. I have very dark hair so I feel like playing with dark hair is not nearly as risky as playing with bleached hair but she gave it a crack

anyway and she looks stunning. She uploaded a couple of selfies which I am so here for but bonus she's saving $140 every three months at the salon and she got all the products for $130. she doesn't have to pay anything else and she says it's going to last her a heap of rounds so i love that michaela good on you i'm not sure her game i would be to bleach my own hair but if it looks that good maybe i would be give it a whirl i dare you i love it the community do it for the gram love her curls there as well it honestly looked like a professional had done her hair not only has she got it beautifully dyed but she's also like styled it and i know those ghd curls are so hard to do but have you got a money winner confession from the community

this week to share mine's a win as if i'm going to choose a confession um i don't know sometimes the confessions make it that's really relatable funny yeah yeah yeah okay well this one is a win it's from laura who has actually so she's moved into a new place and she's been trying to find some art but we know art is expensive art is so expensive yeah unless you're buying like you know a picture of a cactus from kmart or something it can set you back a few hundred bucks so v she's actually framed tea towels which i know probably sounds a little bit putrid but excuse me like i've seen this it is absolutely well and truly not putrid but i can see how someone might think that yeah because this is a podcast and you can't see how cute they look exactly but they're not

just your run-of-the-mill tea towels they're like artistic tea towels so she's picked them up from third drawer down which is a very trendy store i think it's in brunswick or yeah of course it's much too cool for me yes um also from the ngb she's got some postcards and stuff so she slapped them in a frame and she's written that she's honestly spent more on the $2 to $12 frames in this picture than the art that holds them. I love that. Which is amazing because art is so expensive and it looks great. It's creative. It's DIY. I love it. And that's why so many walls in my home are bare because art is expensive. Precisely. So I'm just going to keep on keeping on with my bare walls because I also like creative ability. Moving on. Moving right along. So let's chat

the main topic of today's show. What is pink tax and why is it holding us back? Now, as mentioned at the top of the show, the pink tax is the phenomenon that basically sees the same or similar products costing more when they're marketed towards women. Now, the difference here is not astronomical. The price discrepancy can be subtle, but over the course of a lifetime and when coupled with the 14% gender pay gap that still exists here in Australia, what a joke, exactly, we would probably all agree that this trend is grossly unfair. Now, Victoria, to start off today's conversation, can you please briefly talk me through why we are paying more for these products at the same time as we're generally earning far less. Yeah, look, George, this is

actually ridiculous. And I can't quite believe that this is still a thing. I don't know if anyone has reminded you, but it is 2020. But as you said, women are earning 14% less than men. And the discrepancy is actually widened further for women of color and non-binary people. And I just think that it is insane that this is the type of conversation we still need to be having this year. Yet here we are. We are still paying more and it makes little sense, but it is absolutely reflective of the change that is still left to be done in our society. Yes, we've come a long way in closing the gap and giving it a go for women, but there's still so much work to be done on establishing equality across the board. And the pink tax or gender pricing is very clearly an

example of that. Now, can we just be really clear upfront here that the pink tax is not an actual tax so let's just be really straightforward on that it's more of a nonsensical phenomenon that most of us aren't even aware of because it's just the way things have always been examples of products where the women's version is commonly marked up include razors body wash moisturizers deodorants skincare kids toys clothing and the difference is often only a few cents to a couple of dollars but the stats show us that annually we as women are paying $1,300 more than men for these identical products and that is wild Georgia well that's it and the whole reason it's called the pink tax is because often the only difference in the product is that the branding is pink or

has a little flower on it like that's ridiculous exactly I'm sure it costs them so much more to buy pink dye as it does blue like is that a thing it's just so stupid can I also just butt in here with a little bit of an investing fact because I love investing I don't know if you know this yet or not. If not, maybe go back and listen to our investing episodes. But $1,300, if I'm on my high horse, I am probably or hoping to retire in 30 or so years. Hypothetically, if I took my $1,300 each and every single year that I was paying on pink products, I would actually have over the next 30 years, guess what? $236,000 invested had I taken $1,300 a year and invested that for the next, you know, 30 years. So if we want to talk about wild, look at how much this is impacting

us and look at how much we could be putting towards our futures. Like, oh, wild. But my next question here, V, is just why is this a thing? I actually think it comes down to a few reasons, George. Women are used to paying more and placing a higher value on these items. I've had a really good think about this and we genuinely don't see it and we just kind of accept it. So there's far less controversy about it than there should be. And I think that we should just like, all get on our high horses again and start this controversy all up again and start talking about it and calling it out. But I can guarantee you most of our listeners right now will have no idea that this is a thing because we've just grown up with it. We're just used to it and we are

completely blind to it in a way. As I said before, $1,300 annually ends up being $236,000 if you invested that annually. And these companies are making millions of dollars off this tiny price difference which is just blatantly unfair the second part of this is that i think that there is also this perception from advertisers that because women are more concerned about personal care and maintenance that they're willing to pay more and they should which is dumb like it is so dumb and the fact that people are commercializing that is insane to me but i was reading an article recently on psychology today about this and they likened the pink tax attitude with the idea out there that women are willing to work for a lower salary than men so just pay them less these are

lazy damaging generalizations that degrade 50 of the population and i think in 2020 there is just no place for this kind of rhetoric 100 another thing i noticed fee when i was kind of gathering research for today's show and that i just like had not been cognizant of before was how much money women are pouring into these additional expensive items and rituals that men just don't have to so like makeup tanning getting your hair done buying you know expensive dresses our nails our pubes yes our pubes and also my ridiculous skincare routine now that i'm in iso and have decided to become even more obsessed with skincare than i used to be i think that's very normal but it's like we're told by society that we have to spend so much on just maintaining ourselves and

then by contrast men can just like slap on an unironed t-shirt and people are like wow you're stunning you know what i mean it's just like what is that babe what a babe the audacity in that is real but Georgia we do spend lots more on that stuff so Australians spend a massive 22 billion dollars a year on appearances which includes personal grooming but does not include cosmetic surgery or gyms and of that 22 billion women account for 15 billion dollars of that and that's largely because society tells women that they need to present themselves in certain ways and maintain themselves whereas men are just not put under that same level of pressure and to me that is insanity the other thing g is that we have to spend more money on tampons and pads and sanitary

products people who bleed on average spend about three thousand dollars over the lifetime on pads and tampons not to mention contraception but we'll get to that later it often costs more to just not be a man and it's absolutely time that that changed and i'm also going to point out here that i'm really grateful that tampon tax has been lifted as if that was actually a thing previously anyway i know it's weird that you use the word grateful it's like it never should have been there in the first place it's ridiculous no because do you know what like just to get into this there used to be a tampon tax and pad tax and sanitary item tax but there was no tax on condoms so that was telling me that they didn't think that items that benefited a man were worth the taxing but

obviously tampons that's a choice right somehow a tampon is not necessary but a condom is like don't get me wrong we all should be using those protect yourself but don't tell me that a tampon is not necessary and therefore should be taxed get in the beam honestly that's it you don't choose to bleed but you do choose to stoop you know what i'm saying yeah look let's move on your turn all right so to pivot to pivot quickly here to the pay gap fee can you please talk through what the heck is going on there why is there still such a gulf in what women earn compared to men it feels like we're literally being set up to fail ah yes so the gender pay gap measures the difference between the average earning of women and men in the workforce and i think it's really important

to point out here that it is not the difference between two people in the same role being paid differently which is worth pointing out because that is illegal and against the law our friends at the gender equality agency and the australian bureau of statistics data both show a gender pay gap, favoriting full-time working men over full-time working women in every single industry and occupational category in Australia, which is massive. And it's really a signal of a larger cultural problem within our workplaces. So just a few stats for you, stats gal. I've pulled together these. As of May this year, the average weekly ordinary full-time earnings across all industries and occupations for women was $1,558.40 compared to men's average weekly ordinary full-time

earnings of $1,812, which is huge. The full-time total remuneration gender pay gap is 20.8%, meaning men working full-time earn nearly $25,679 a year more than women who are working full-time, which is massive and stupidly unfair. It's also significantly worse for women of colour and non-binary people who we all know are afforded less opportunity than white women and face a whole suite of other issues but at this stage the research on these minorities at this point in time is pretty limited and that is also a really sad fact why is this the case still victoria like it seems ridiculous that it's 2020 and there is still this massive gulf in what men and women are yeah and i think that this is really important to address as well so back to our friends at the

workplace gender equality agency the gender pay gap is influenced by a number of factors so this This includes discrimination and bias in hiring and paying decisions, women and men working in different industries and different jobs with female-dominated industries and jobs just attracting lower wages, women's disproportionate share of unpaid caring and domestic work, which is a massive one, a lack of workplace flexibility to accommodate caring for and responsibilities, especially in more senior roles, and women's greater time out of the workplace impacting career progression and their opportunities. so essentially women are less likely to be executives bringing in those larger salaries

with the proportion of women in senior management globally sitting at 29% which Georgia is actually the highest it's ever been in the history of history Georgia I think there's also this stupidly unfair perception that women are just more dispensable and less reliable because of the fact that they may have children one day which is insane and another point is that the greater number of women who are also drawn to those carer roles are often greatly underpaid despite how integral they are to our society, which I think this year has been highlighted more than any other year. We are also generally less likely to ask for a pay rise. And if this is you, go back to our pay rise episode and listen to that. And if you don't want to take notes from that, listen to

it again and go for those jobs that we just don't feel as qualified for as so many of us are riddled with imposter syndrome, which we know impacts far more women than it does men. So for anyone who doesn't know imposter syndrome is the feeling that you're a fraud despite the fact that you are extremely qualified and good at what you do it's this seed of doubt that tells you that you're not worthy and anything good you've done is just because of luck and that sooner or later they in quotation marks will find out that you're a fraud and it is bullshit and you are competent you are capable and you are absolutely able to go for that job and i just think that imposter syndrome also in 2020 needs to get in the bin along with a number of other things so there's an amazing

stat Georgia which you've likely heard before because we've put it on the podcast but that's that men apply for a job when they feel like they meet 60% of the criteria of the qualifications but women apply only if they meet 100% of them so we really need to start backing ourselves more and put ourselves out there we need to be talking about this it is honestly I keep saying it's crazy but it is crazy because we are so capable and so competent and we just need to see more women doing more cool stuff well that's exactly right in terms of more solutions than v when it comes to the gender pay gap and when it comes to the pink tax what actions can we be taking in our own lives to kind of put an end to it well for the gender pay gap according to the young workers

center pay gap secrecy and a lack of transparency is one of the reasons we do have a gap so i think that if we start talking about our wages more openly and gaining clarity over what our peers are earning and where appropriate demanding what we're worth i think it could be really useful let's talk about it more like let's just make it really normal to understand what our friends are earning and what you're earning there is absolutely no shame in a salary whether you earn half as much as your friend or double what your friend earns like it does not matter what you earn it's what you do with it it's actually illegal by the way to pay women less for the same role as a man so if you think that your company is doing the wrong thing then i definitely suggest you go to hr

and if they're not helpful then go to the fair work ombudsman hard word for me to get out for some reason today this exists to help employees so alternatively you could go down that line i also really like their website so fairwork.gov.au not to just report people but to just educate yourself like read through things understand how you can help yourself understand the expectations so that you know when you are going to hr that you've got a really solid case and i always recommend that like make sure that you go into a meeting really prepared for the conversation you want to have instead of oh I think I'm being paid less like go in and be like hey here's the award rate that I should be paid and I know I'm being paid less because the award's $27 an hour and

you're currently paying me $23 an hour like have those conversations from an educated place there are so many great resources out there that can help and if you're stumped post in our Facebook group there are a number of wizards in our community that'll be like hey girl got you back here's the resource like they're incredible use our community for what they are good at and that is researching and stalking people online. So when it comes to pink tax, there are also a few things that we can do moving away from the gender pay gap. We can buy men's products instead of women's. I've been doing this for years. Very sexy. I know. I don't think I've owned a pink razor. All my razors are blue. But if you're buying a basic white t-shirt, then why not just

go and buy a men's one in your size? Like it's cheaper. I promise. Do you buy razors like I do in Woolies at the time of recording this? The price for a women's Gillette Venus disposable razor is $4.50 whereas the male equivalent so like not even just like oh I looked at Gillette once same number of blades same shape same size is $3.40 and the men's razors have 10 in it while the woman's razors have five ludicrous like you are literally paying more for less I hate that anyway also good idea to look at unit pricing before buying and that is usually on the tags at the front so when you're buying food products it's usually like oh this many cents per 100 grams or kilograms. So have a look at that. We know sometimes items may look like they're the

same price, but in reality, the men's version will often have more of said product. So back to the raises, you get literally double the amount of raises for less money. So looking at unit pricing can help clarify exactly what your dollar is getting you. And also my favorite, call it out. We know the only way for change to happen is where companies are challenged on the decisions that they're making so if you are seeing this happen have a chat to the retailer about why and bring it to their attention you can write letters of complaint you can email it can all be surprisingly helpful when actioning change so that is my wrap of things that we can do georgia loved it i just wanted to add kind of one last thing there v which just goes back to kind of the first solution that

you said at the top was which was just to start having these conversations and i just wanted to kind of point out that I think the reason that She's On The Money has been so successful is that you've created this big community of women who are just ready to start talking about money. It's like we've not really had that opportunity afforded to us before. And I think that that really speaks to women just being fed up of not being included in the conversation and, you know, wanting to just learn more and educate themselves. And, you know, do you want to talk about that a little bit? But that's a hundred percent it, right? Like we aren't dumb. We don't need this information dumbed down because we're not dumb we are smart people doing cool things it's just that

we've never had this conversation before and how do you know how to have a conversation you've never had before like how do we talk about compound interest if no one's even told you what it is it's not that you don't get it friends it is that we just haven't had this discussion like it's not the stuff you learn in school it is the stuff that is so important for us to understand though and i guess that's why we exist and i think it's the space i love and the reason i created it is because I wanted to be a part of one of those communities didn't exist. So cool, J King, I'm here for creating it. But yes, I think that that is why we exist. And I think that together we can have an impact and you see the impact of us changing people's money stories for the better. And I'm

honestly so blown away that that's still a thing. But I also think that we have the ability as a community to have a larger impact on things that impact us and that are important to us. And we need to start talking about that like we don't need to be abusive we don't need to be anything other than educated but just calling it out where we see it we don't need to be aggressive online but what we do need to do is go hey did you know this is a thing like this is wildly unfair like Gillette why are you guys charging more for razors does it genuinely cost you more to produce a pink razor if so could you explain to us why it costs more like I would love to know because I want to be educated in these things and then if I then still choose to purchase a pink razor

It would be a choice that I'm making because I want a particular product above and beyond knowing that you guys are, you know, profiting off the fact that I'm female and didn't go and look in the male section before purchasing this item. So I just feel like I want to be educated. I want to understand these things, but there's a lack of clarity around them. And that just seems wildly unfair. this week instead of doing our usual she's on the money mailbox and hearing from a money diarist we've instead invited dr hannah from the fabulous utu you to me uterus podcast to chat through some of the female reproductive health questions we know you've been dying to have answered now the questions do all come from our community and we know you guys are going to get so much out of this

little chat. Here's Hannah. Hannah, first things first, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you? Absolutely. So I'm a doctor. I work specifically in sexual health. So lots of people haven't actually heard of that specialty and get a bit confused when I say that. So to give you a bit of an idea about what we actually do, we obviously manage lots of STIs. We help people with contraception choices. We see lots of people with early pregnancy deciding what their plan is for that pregnancy. We manage lots of people living with HIV. There's a really broad range of stuff that we do, lots of sexual dysfunction, common gynae issues. It's a really broad and fun and interesting area of medicine to work in. So yeah, I do that for my day job and I

also work in the sexual assault service after hours. So helping clients who are victims of sexual violence in terms of doing forensic examinations and stuff like that. And the other thing I do is, as you mentioned, my podcast, which is, we've just finished season one and that was a bit of a learning experiment for me. But yeah, so that's a bit about me. And yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Well, thank you so much for joining us. That actually sounds awesome. I didn't realize you did so much. I knew about your primary job and your podcast, but not much else. So thank you so much for sharing that. Georgia and I have gone through the list of questions that our Facebook community have left for you to help us answer. And I think we might just dive straight in and

georgia and i can ask you a few questions and maybe just have a general chat about each of them and what page we're on what do you reckon sounds good to me all right georgia do you want to hit her up with the first one absolutely i'll kick us off so i hope this isn't too weird but my friend swears by the diva cup and keeps telling me i need to get one she says it's great for the environment and is a cheaper option in the long term but is it a safe option compared to pads and tampons So, yeah, I love this question. I think it's really topical, actually. I think lots of women and gender diverse people that bleed are increasingly looking for more safe, effective and, I guess, environmentally friendly ways to manage their period. And I guess given this is a money podcast, it's also interesting to look at it from like an economic point of view. and in the world they kind of estimate that there's about 2 billion menstruators and of those about 1.7 billion live in low and middle income countries so looking at things like the diva cup

which is one brand of menstrual cup is a really worthwhile thing to consider in terms I guess specifically of the safety of menstrual cups absolutely they're a safe option to consider as long as you're using them correctly so there's a few I guess basic principles when it comes to using menstrual cups. And the first, and I guess most important thing is cleaning it adequately. So you need to make sure that you're rinsing it out at least once a day, ideally two or three times. And also it's important to sterilize the cup at the end of each period. So once a month, give it a good clean in boiling water. So when you say, sorry to butt in there, when you say rinsing it out, do I have to do that with boiling water or can I just run it under the

tap and go about my day like or is that actually going to have to be in boiling water again so you only need to do the sterilizing with boiling water like once a month so if you say you use your menstrual cup for the whole five or six days that you bleed obviously you're going to need to empty it because it's collecting blood and when you just empty it you know halfway through the day or when you're in the shower whatever you can just rinse it with the shower water or the tap water or whatever so no you don't need to boil it every single time yeah and some people do if you're like in public toilets or whatever, and you can't access, you know how the sinks are always not in the cubicle? Oh, how annoying. Yes, I didn't consider that. And what would a diva cup or a

menstrual cup actually set us back? Pretty cheap. Like I personally use a menstrual cup and mine only cost $20 and it will last me years. Oh, amazing. Yeah. It's a really, yeah, a really cheap option. So the next question is why aren't feminine hygiene products free? What would need to happen to make them free and what costs from the government would this involve? Yeah, I love this question. And I think, I hate to get political, but I feel like it's because we live in an inherently patriarchal society where periods are viewed as this weird kind of gruesome luxury, like almost like we're not going to talk about it. We're not going to acknowledge it. If women talk about it in the workplace, it's inappropriate. But at the same time, like it's

a luxury. So we're going to charge you GST. Like not that that's the case anymore, but you know. Hannah I would like to change our theme of our questions for you and start talking about contraception we have had a question come in that said hi guys I find that contraception is really expensive what is the cheapest option for me and is this something I should be looking at the cheapest option for so I guess I would say in a perfect world cost shouldn't be a consideration when it comes to contraception ideally in my perfect world women should be able to access any contraceptive they like that is safe and effective and reliable regardless of the cost and regardless of your income bracket. The sad reality is that cost does come into it for a lot

of people and there's some general principles I guess because we're based in Australia. There's a few things that kind of guide how much contraception can be for you and first of all you know if you hold a medicare card that's a great benefit because you'll automatically be eligible for subsidies if anything's listed on the PBS. In addition, if you have a healthcare card, so if you're a full-time student or other things like that, you can get an even more reduced cost of PBS listed medications. And then I guess it depends to where you access it. So again, I work in a publicly funded clinic, so we do lots of at least free insertions of contraception and things like that, but not everyone can access our service. So there's lots of different things that

impact on the cost of different contraceptives I would say ideally if you are privileged enough for cost not to be the biggest consideration the first thing you should be considering is is it safe for you and then second to that is it reliable for you so I'm sorry that this person that's asked this question is finding contraception really expensive I think there's a few really cheap options that people should or could be aware of some of the pills that have been around for a really long time can be as cheap as like $14 for four months supply. So that's pretty cheap or affordable for most people. The Implanon, which is the rod in the arm, it costs $40 if you have a Medicare card or only $6 if you have a healthcare card and it lasts three years. So that works out

as like two bucks a year. How good is that? Pretty good. Yeah. And then the Mirena, which is the hormonal IUD. Similarly, it's about $40 for Medicare card holders and that lasts five years. So, yeah, there's certainly lots of options out there and, you know, a lot of them for kind of the price of a coffee a week or something like that. So it's really worthwhile if you feel like you can't afford the contraceptive you're currently on, discuss other options with your doctor because there's certainly more out there. The next question says, can we talk about sharing the cost of contraception with your partner? How do you feel about that? How do we approach that conversation? I feel like I'll put my finance hat on and say if it's a shared cost which it is let's talk about

it put it in the budget but how do you approach that from your point of view? I don't actually come across this very much but I really love that this person asked this I think it's good obviously for people in relationships because not only does it kind of share the responsibility of contraception but also opens the conversation a bit about what your plans are for pregnancy future later on and you know how long we are going to be preventing pregnancy for all that type of thing so I think it's a really healthy discussion to have and certainly I feel that contraception does not just become the responsibility of the person with the uterus like we all need to play our part and be interested and assist financially I guess the flip side of that is that not everyone

having sex with a risk of you know getting pregnant is in a relationship so it's not going to be an option for everyone but certainly if you're in a in a relationship and that's something you feel comfortable doing by all means I would advocate for that. All right Hannah we have a question about abortion they say let's break the stigma around abortions what are the first steps to take if someone needs one where can they find support and resources if going through one and how much do they cost? Yeah so this is topical and in New South Wales where I work the law has just changed around abortion which is really exciting up until October last year it was still a criminal offence. So I am absolutely serious. You are a bit more progressive in Victoria and

it's been, yeah, more readily accessible for people down there. But yeah, it was literally in October last year, they finally changed the, I think it's the 1900s Crime Act or something crazy. So now in New South Wales, you can access abortion upon request up to 22 weeks. So you no longer have to say you know I have this medical reason why or my mental health is going to deteriorate you can just say I am not I would like an abortion yeah and that's true up to 20 weeks in Victoria up to 24 weeks because the law is state-based it's a bit different obviously in each state in terms of where to go so it depends a little bit on what type of abortion or termination that you are interested in having.

So a little bit about that. There's two types. There's a medical abortion or a surgical abortion. What is, is this a silly question? What's the difference between a medical and a surgical abortion? Yeah, so medical, you, it's also referred to as MS2 step. You might've heard of RU486, that very controversial at the time tablet that came on the market. But basically you take two tablets about 24 to 48 hours apart.

the first tablet ends the pregnancy and the second tablet induces uterine contractions so that the pregnancy is expelled. So most people would have a medical termination at home with like a partner or family member there with them just to make sure that they're okay through that process. The surgical termination sounds scary because surgery, but it's not actually any big incisions in your body or anything like that. It's basically, you have light sedation. It's just a day procedure and they basically just evacuate the contents of the uterus so the products of conception you can have a surgical abortion after six weeks and up to kind of whatever that time frame in your state is that allows abortion past the 22 to 24 week mark it

gets a little bit more complicated in terms of what type of abortion you can get and some very late pregnancies if there's fetal abnormalities or things like that actually require induction of labor and almost laboring like you were having an actual baby. So there's lots of nuances to this discussion, but in Australia, about 94% of abortions do happen in the first 14 weeks. So the general medical or surgical are the two main options. In terms of, I guess, how much these cost, the medical abortion, again, if you have a Medicare card, that's a great thing because it'll be about $150. Again, because these are usually all private clinics that are offering this service, there can be differences so that's just a general guide and it can be up to about $300 to $400 I

think if you don't hold a Medicare card because the medications won't be subsidized. The surgical side of things again if you have Medicare can be about $400 and if you don't about $800 again differences depending on where you access it. The other thing to consider is that these costs don't necessarily particularly if you don't hold Medicare card don't include things like the cost of an ultrasound because for example if you're going to have a medical termination you need to make sure that the pregnancy is actually in the uterus not in the fallopian tubes like not an ectopic pregnancy or something like that so you do need some tests and things working yourself up to I guess have a termination in terms of where you can access it most cheap I mean any doctor in

Australia can do an online course to become an accredited prescriber of medical abortion but that said in some facilities they won't offer it so for example in I work in a publicly funded clinic and it's not a question of conscientious objection like all the doctors they would be happy to do it but it's just one of the limitations of our funding it's not a service we currently provide so not every doctor you see will be able to provide you with that but certainly the law in New South Wales stipulates that if you ask a doctor for an abortion and they can't provide you with that care they have to give you a really prompt referral to someone who can so it's helpful to know your rights i guess around that too so if we find ourselves in a situation where we go to a

doctor and they say sorry i can't do this it's not going to be an issue because they'll help us find someone who will exactly yeah and that again i think that was that only changed last year too in new south wales um prior to that they could just say no i don't do abortions goodbye but now they have to actually you know help you access it which is a really good change yeah that's an awesome change because I feel like for a lot of people that would be a really hard step to make and then to have someone say no sorry I'm not doing that and then provide absolutely no support like that would be a really sticky situation to be in so I'm glad that it's now mandated they have to help you out yeah exactly and you know people access abortion for all sorts of different reasons

none of which are the health care providers prerogative to know like that's it's a really personally and we just need to respect that people they need it and they're requesting it and people need all different levels of support so some people will come in you know nurses get abortions doctors get abortions people with all sorts of different levels of health literacy get abortions it's not just something that young people get or poor people get or whatever it's something that affects everyone and they actually did this survey in australia where they showed about one in four respondents had had an unintended pregnancy in the last 10 years and 50% of them were using contraception so it's not even about oh you're bad at using contraception or you forgot

to use a camera I'm like lots of people are actually yeah I feel like there's this stigma around abortion that if you need one you must have been irresponsible yeah whereas that's not the case at all it's I needed one for my own personal reasons and how lucky are we to live in a country where we can access healthcare like that. Absolutely. Yeah. And despite the progress that we've made that there still is a lot of stigma with abortion. And yeah, that's why I love this question. I think it's really good thing to talk about. And if you're not getting the help that you need from the doctor you've seen, please reach out, ask on my Instagram page, or even just like your GP, whatever, there are people out there that can help. So from contraception to conception,

what is the best time to start preparing to fall pregnant? Is it 12 months? Is it 18 months? Should I be doing tests? Does my partner need to do tests? Like what does that look like? The best thing that anyone can do if they're thinking they want to get pregnant is just to be the healthiest version of yourself, because that's going to first and foremost make conception more likely and more easy. But also if you're healthy and well, your pregnancy will be easier and you'll have a healthy pregnancy. That said, there's lots of things that are outside of what we can control and some people you know have chronic health conditions that will make their chances of falling pregnant lower or more difficult and I guess I acknowledge that not everyone can

just be like okay well from now on I'm going to be healthy and that will mean I get pregnant as soon as I want to. It's more just about optimizing your health to give yourself the best chance of falling pregnant when you decide to. So some really simple things I guess are just healthy diet, regular exercise, stop smoking if you smoke, all that type of stuff is really helpful. In terms of testing for the average person who has just decided now I'm ready to start a family there's not really any testing that you need to do really far in advance but I would say it's really a good idea to see your GP before you're actually pregnant so a few months before is a good idea maybe three to six months before you actually start trying and the reason for that is they can

check that all your vaccinations are up to date so there's some that are contraindicated in pregnancy but can protect the fetus like rubella for example and they can also do screening for like blood-borne viruses like HIV and things like that just to make sure that we're optimizing any underlying health conditions before you get pregnant and it's also a really good idea to talk to your GP about supplements pregnancy vitamins that type of thing because a lot of people don't know but folate for example folic acid it's a really good idea to take that for three months before you actually get pregnant so yeah I would say general stuff you can be doing now even if you don't want to have kids for 10 years but that specific stuff probably maybe three months before you're you start

trying check in with your GP awesome thank you and if we are going to have kids this is another good question I think do we really need to do it before 35 can we reduce the chances of negative effects while we are still getting older so you don't have to fall pregnant before 35 that is yeah that's just not true I guess the chance of you falling pregnant does naturally decline with age so as a lot of people might know you have all the eggs that you can ever potentially ovulate at birth so you don't actually grow any new eggs so that's why over time as you ovulate and as eggs die off you slowly do lose your reproductive capacity and the egg quality also declines with time too so perhaps the ease of falling pregnant is more difficult after age 35 but again I would

just like a disclaimer here I'm not a fertility specialist and I'm actually interviewing two fertility specialists really soon about all these questions because I want I guess people to get really good reliable information so watch this space brilliant awesome I think Georgia has a few more questions for you if you can handle them yeah so these are a little bit more random So a question for both of you, if we could invest as much time and or money into our health as possible, what would be the one thing you would choose to invest in if you could only pick one? So this could be anything from skincare to working out to insurance, to relationships,

to therapy, to just about anything. I don't know. Should we start with, we'll start with Hannah and then we can move across to Victoria. I'm excited to hear Victoria's answer to this. Well, I'm going to copy Hannah's. I don't know anything about it. Okay. so my answer to this is probably a bit of a cop out but I would say any preventative health stuff

is really worth all your money um not all your money that's not financial advice good financial advice from Anna put all your money no I guess I just think like while you're young and healthy the more stuff you can do to prevent disease later in life is really worthwhile and so for some people you know maybe you're somebody that loves exercising outdoors but you've maybe had a few mental health issues over your time so maybe for you instead of paying for a gym membership it might be more worthwhile checking with a psychologist once every six months whereas you know if you're somebody that will only exercise if there's like a fitness instructor yelling at you what to do but you've not really had any mental health concerns maybe you can

invest your money in the gym side of stuff whereas you can manage mental health stuff in I guess cheaper or free ways just managing stress or online mood gyms that kind of stuff so that's a really broad answer and I feel like I'm cheating a little bit by saying it but no my my response is absolutely a cop-out as well Hannah um for me it's actually go figure financial health and mental health kind of combined I feel like we don't talk about the stress money puts on you nearly enough and we don't talk about how much that actually impacts our mental health and by putting our finances first I feel like we are able to put ourselves first in a way like I've said it before on our podcast that I genuinely believe that keeping a

budget and having a good cash flow plan is one of the best acts of self-care that you can actually have for yourself so for me it would be about just understanding what that is and actually caring about your money because that's going to be able to fund things like skincare and out of pockets and being able to go to a GP and putting it in the budget so if you need contraception you know you can afford it and if you need to go see a gynecologist you're not you know stressed about that as an option I also feel like mental health is something that I put a lot of priority on for myself because I know that that dictates how healthy I am as a whole like I know if I'm not mentally well I'm not exercising I'm not eating well I'm not putting myself first so for me

personally I'd be investing in my financial health not literally investing obviously I love that too but I would be making sure that I just understand my budget feel comfortable talking about money and then furthering that just making sure that my mental health is okay I'm gonna rope you into this though Georgia oh god what is what is your priority um I mean I guess I'd probably go with the kind of broad overarching answer that Han provided in all of the preventative measures so I love to get out for a run I find that that's really good for my mental health and yeah I think that is probably my take but I'm certainly no expert on anything I don't think you have to be an expert to be able to put yourself first and I think that we should all be putting ourselves

first a bit more often than we actually do to be a little bit quote centric like you can't pour from an empty cup and I think the healthier you are the healthier everybody around you is so Brilliant. That makes sense. I'll ask the next one. Back to vaginas, Hannah. Do we really need to be spending money on those special expensive cleaners for our intimate areas or are they a waste of our cash? I cannot tell you how much of my Monday to Friday work time is spent talking about this topic. It's like so common and I feel like this is a very... What do you mean? The marketing on them is beautiful. I know. And, you know, some of them are like marketed as doctors and some are like, I don't know, there's so much misinformation out there. I'm sorry to keep

spruiking my episodes, but I interviewed a dermatologist about this because, you know, it's a really common cause of genital skin problems using all these like feminine hygiene products that actually just create more problems than they solve. At the end of the day, you shouldn't douche. So you shouldn't clean inside the vagina. It will sort itself out. And in terms of like the vulva or the external genital area generally water is enough if you must use something it's best to use fragrance free dermatological approved washes so save your pennies guys so the fancy ones aren't worth our time they are not worth your time no that could be a money win for some of our listeners to stop purchasing feminine hygiene washes well i feel

like it also is kind of anti-feminist it's like your vagina's dirty clean it you know what i mean like that's another thing that's been said to us to make us feel horrible and if you genuinely think it is not okay like I feel like you shouldn't be using a wash you should actually be going and talking to your doctor right yeah and that's something I say commonly actually people who do get a genital skin problem or a weird discharge they start cleaning more because they're like oh there's something unclean or I've done something wrong and so they clean more often and again that tends to make things worse rather than better so even if you're only cleaning with water it's also important not to over clean. So like once, twice a day max, you don't need to be cleaning your

vulva every 15 minutes or whatever. So Hannah, how do we deal with doctors who don't believe in endometriosis or brush off pain and symptoms? This is a heartbreaking question and I'm sorry to the hundreds of women out there who have gone through this. I think historically there has been a real misunderstanding of the difference between normal cyclical pelvic pain and, you know, actual chronic medical conditions like endometriosis. So sorry, on behalf of my community of fellow doctors. I think, again, one of the really good things that you can do if you have a specific concern, like if you think you possibly have endometriosis, and you feel like every time you go in and say, my period pain means that I can't go to school, my period pain is stopping me from

playing sport. And they're just not getting it like it's just not getting through to your doctor. like firstly sorry about that that's not good enough but also maybe flag with them what your specific concern is because I think at the end of the day you might have been living with this symptom for like four years ten years like a really long time whatever it is and you've been mulling it over and thinking about it when you go to the doctor and have a 15 minute appointment and you say I have painful periods it's maybe not connecting with them just how much an impact it's had on your life and what it means for you and that you're specifically concerned you have endo so I think it's always a bit of a power imbalance seeing a doctor because you know you always feel

a bit like flustered and like am I asking stupid questions and all of that write them down tell them what you're specifically worried about and at the end of the day if they're not answering your questions adequately enough or you don't feel like you're getting the answers you need see a different doctor and I think that's really relevant as well because I've been to the doctor before and felt like I've had silly questions or that you know I didn't want to seem dumb but in the same way that I talk about finance I can't be expected to be a medical expert like you guys have studied for years and years and years to know what you know and I haven't done that and I feel like so many people come into my office and they're like oh I feel like this is such a dumb question

it's like but why would you know the answer to that you're not a financial advisor you've never studied this so I think it's really important to also point out like you're going to a doctor because they're a specialist and you are not and that is that is the beauty of it right like you can ask your question there's no such thing as a silly question especially when you go into a doctor's office like tell them what's going on tell them how it's impacting you and if you don't feel like you're getting the response that you need either let them know like hey it's actually more significant than this or you're right Hannah go and see someone who is going to listen to you you deserve that level of respect absolutely and I think we're all the same like I went to see a

lawyer recently and I felt so stupid asking questions that I'm like is this just common knowledge and I'm an idiot but no you're like it's not the area that I have studied for six years or whatever like exactly this is why we see exactly yeah so don't like we are smart people we are all smart people it just doesn't mean we've studied absolutely everything yeah exactly all right Hannah that is about all we have time for today I know that we have spent a fair bit of your time and we are very very grateful for you joining us today so thank you so so much I think that this is really valuable content that our community will love amazing thanks guys so much for having me it's been fun we hope you guys enjoyed that chat with dr hannah but unfortunately it is now time to

wrap the show but just before we head off we'd really like to acknowledge and pay respect to australia's aboriginal and torres strait islander peoples the traditional custodians of the lands waterways and skies across australia we thank you for sharing and caring for the land on which we are able to learn we pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and kindness now for the boring but important stuff the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision and relax we promise victoria divine is an authorized representative of australia pacific

Funds Management, Propriety Limited, ABN 34132463257, AFSL 339151. I sounded like a robot. That's so good. I love it. And as always, a big shout out to the big man, Ryan John, for putting together today's podcast. What a guy. What a wizard. We'd also love it if you joined our Facebook group where our community shares money tips

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you can head to our website to join up and hear all of Georgia King's unsolicited recommendations. Oh, 100%. Did you read this week's? Did you see the Michael Bublé? Georgia King shouted out to our very good friend, Michael Bublé. And I just, I don't understand where your creative ability comes from. I'm honestly envious of it. But Georgia King also did a really terrible job of photoshopping herself looking longingly at Michael Bublé.

And it was actually borderline creepy. So I accidentally cut off my hair so I had to draw a little hat. Yeah, it was, I think it was the highlight. It was the highlight. But it was like Georgia King in a really dodgy Microsoft Party hat. Hey, it was Photoshop. Okay, I'm going to wrap this episode. This is a bit loose.

We'll see you guys on Wednesday. See you guys next Wednesday. Bye, guys.