She's On The Money - Scamdelous (how to avoid being scammed)

Episode Date: April 27, 2021

In Australia last year $176 million was lost to scams, which was up 23.1% from 2019. Tech is becoming increasingly sophisticated and unfortunately, so too are the scammers who are ripping Aussies off. Today, we get to the bottom of how you can safeguard your finances (and yourself) from scammers, and we discuss why no one is too smart to be scammed.If you're in Australia and you need any help or want to report a scam, visit https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/Love the pod but looking for a more hands-on approach to your money? Look no further. Our budgeting & cash flow masterclass is the tool you need to help overhaul your finances for good. Join Victoria as she steps you through your budgeting and cash flow with all of the smarts and none of the intimidating jargon.  Finally, if you're in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we've got you sorted - simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast!  The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Scams. We hear about them on the news all the time, mainly on A Current Affair and a big shout out to Tracy Grimshaw if she is listening. Now, while these stories do tug at the heartstrings, ultimately, we all kind of assume it'll never happen to us because we're way too smart to get sucked into a scam. Do people still watch A Current Affair?

I think so. Cute. I don't know. Carry on. Let's poll the group. The thing is, though, guys, scamming can happen to anyone of any age, intellect and background, including She's On The Money listeners. So today, we want to run you through all you need to know when it comes to scams so you

can avoid falling victim to this hideous type of crime. My name is Georgia King, and joining me today to talk through how we can safeguard our finances and ourselves from scams is financial advisor Victoria Devine. v i had a phone call the other day from someone claiming to be from the ato they weren't spoiler it was an automated message um and it said i would be arrested if i didn't transfer money for some overdue tax and i was like oh my god did you how realistic was it wasn't and it wasn't a recording it was actually someone saying he was calling from the ato yeah and quite evidently he was not because they don't speak in the tone of voice he was speaking in right nor when i said

okay well validate my information and he was like oh i didn't know how didn't know how and i said oh my gosh i don't even have a job i just played along with it it's a terrible idea but you know we're actually going to teach you about real scam avoidance not the victoria divine method well but that's the thing v that these are so realistic like i'm a i consider myself to be a smart young strapping less but I was like mum I'm gonna get arrested they're coming for me so if the ATO were genuinely coming for you and they already had your mobile number I guarantee you would have heard about this before no one and I repeat no one is ever gonna call you and be like hey if you don't transfer me money for some overdue tax you're gonna be arrested that's not gonna happen well

that's what my mum said I'm still kind of sus on it though so in that situation let's take the situation as an example I know we're going to get into it in more depth yep but in this situation you'd say no problems thank you so much mister I think you're a scammer what's your landline I'm going to call you back on that right and ask them for their landline then if they do give you that great that's a very positive step google it is it actually the ATO if not just call their 1-800 number and say, hey, I was just on the phone to somebody at the ATO. They said I was going to be arrested. Bit worried. Can you guys let me know what's going on? So, my advice is immediately hang up and then call that authority back ASAP if you're concerned about it. Obviously,

I knew that was a scam. So, I definitely didn't bother following anybody up. But if you're worried, call that proper authority on their 1-800 number, not talk to that person on the phone. because often even if you say hey can you validate my identification they're like okay give me your full name no no no no you're now giving them the information that they need so don't do that oh my god okay so call them and the girl that picks up or the boy that picks up is gonna go oh my gosh georgia i know that's a common scam i'm so sorry you got stuck okay they'll let you know don't don't call mom um i mean you could call mom i call my mom for literally everything yeah okay moving along v how common are scams in australia because it's not just you and i getting these

calls right no it's not unfortunately there are too many scams and unfortunately they are all too common in 2020 176 million dollars was lost on scams which is up a total of 23.1 percent if we compare that to 2019 stats and that of course was due to the increased time that we are actually spending online recently. And that is, my friends, a lot of money. And that's not only scams that we've been reported. Gee, apparently only 13% of victims actually make a report, according to a company called Scamwatch, which is run by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, or the ACCC. So it's safe to assume that much more money has actually been lost, which is wild. It is wild. And I guess it makes sense that last year so much money was lost because obviously it

was the pandemic and as you said we were spending so much time online because we had not a lot else to do and they really targeted us for that absolutely and do you know what's scary more than 63 million dollars has already been lost this year and it's only may what that's a lot of cash that is a lot of money that is a lot of dollaroos georgia king it's really sad this topic i think it's really sad but i also think it's really important because it can help us have empowered conversations like I don't think a lot of people in the moment especially when they pick up the phone and someone says I'm from the ATO and if you don't pay us right now you're going to go to jail you're going to be a bit stressed but I think the most important thing here is actually to go

okay no here's what I'm going to do thank you so much for calling I can see that you've got a valid point if they do if they don't who cares just say that hang up and call them directly from their landline for me that is probably the best way to go about it if they call you but some are a lot slipperier than that and they actually get into your inbox and you don't even realize how scammy they are well that's it v so tell me so this is obviously ato style scams so masking is government corporations to try and get your money get your personal details whatever they'll do lots of types of scams talk me through them okay are you ready for this because there are a lot of different types of scams which is kind of pervy like as long as you've never been bitten by them this

could be a really interesting episode but if you have you really oh my gosh victoria please stop talking but one that everybody has probably seen is those prize winning scams so for example you might have received a message from an unknown number congratulating you on winning their competition and all you need to do to claim your fifty thousand dollar prize is click the link and give them all your personal details which is good to be true too good to be true because it is too good to be true and then they'll use your personal details you know what they're going to do with that what steal my money yeah exactly they're going to probably pretend to be you which is terrifying there's another type of scam which is a more of a transactional buying selling scam

so maybe on like facebook marketplace or ebay where people are selling false goods and taking your money and running and I've actually seen this a fair bit on places like Gumtree recently really yes especially during COVID you know what advertising pets which is really sad because a lot of people during COVID really want pets so they're like yep I totally get that you can't see me I will you know follow all the social distancing rules I'll transfer my five thousand dollars for my you know spoodle thing that everybody's buying at the moment that's an attack on me as well I just bought a golden sheepadoodle go figure a legit one by the way wasn't a scam but they would take people's money and then they'd organize a pickup time and actually never turn up which is

wild and so unfair they've really capitalized on trends it seems because that's what everyone was buying last year yeah yep which makes sense and that's why you really need to validate any purchase that you are making online and there sadly are a few dating scams online this breaks my heart yeah or what people are more commonly calling catfishing which are particularly devastating often because love is involved and that might be a scammer setting up a fake account or initiating a fake relationship and then exploiting the other person using them for money or gifts or personal details and they would usually want to hurry the relationship along but they can't ever meet that person because they're quote overseas or working in a mine or something like that and once they've

formed that relationship with you and the trust is there, that's when it gets really dangerous and they'll start asking for money or claim that there's an emergency and that they need your financial help and stuff. And that's really terrifying because I think that that happens more often than people are willing to admit. Because it's a bit embarrassing in a way, right? Yeah. No one wants to say, hey, I got catfished. No, because there's, yeah, there's ego involved in that. And it's such an emotional experience to go through. Having your heart broken is bad enough but then 100% coupling that with financial devastation yeah and I think it's really hard because you know good people meet other good people online like I met my partner online and

I'm not ashamed of that in any way shape or form but I think it's a more common way to meet people nowadays but also a really common way for people to be scammed side note Georgia how cool would it be to get a catfished money diary oh that would be very interesting so if you've been catfished and it's financially impacted you could you just uh slide into my dms in the next week or so because i have questions yeah and i'm pretty sure our whole community does well and that would be a really helpful listen for everyone to know exactly what to be aware of and those little red flags that we need to be 100 mindful of back on track though when it comes to scams there are also fake charities fake tradies fake investing opportunities computer hackings etc literally the list goes on

in terms of the scams that are most prevalent scam watchers latest report from 2019 found the greatest losses by type of scam were number one business email compromised scams and number two investment scams and then number three dating and romance scams so all of the things that we want we want to be in business we want to be you know investing and we want to be in love and we're going to be scammed on the mall georgia not good not good at all and that's millions and millions and millions of dollars were tied to each of those headers. So it's a lot of money that's been lost to each of those. In total, we go back to that stat I said at the start,

and I believe that was $176 million, which was lost in 2020. Wild. And that was all that people actually admitted to. Crazy. Now, investment scams, that was number two. So that's obviously the space that you move in. It is. I do like a little investment.

What does this mean? What does that look like? what do we need to be mindful of? So investment scams usually occur when a scammer is must grading as like a stock trader or a broker or a financial professional, which is really, really sad and hopefully less common given the Royal Commission that we went through in 2019 in saying that if you're interested in finance scams and you haven't listened to the podcast, Who the Hell is Hamish? What are you doing with your life? That was so juicy. It was juicy. definitely go and listen to that but back to financial scams and investing scams

they will often approach you with a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that'll help you make money fast but to do that you actually need to move really quickly and they often use really tricky language and jargon so that they sound super informed and they make you reluctant to ask questions or question the authenticity of that kind of offer so for me any person who doesn't break it down for you and actually explain an investment opportunity and isn't willing to wait is a terrible idea. Even if it's not a scam, if someone is pressuring you to invest and you're just not ready, they are not the right person to invest with, my friends. Are there fake, in quotation marks, businesses on the stock market or is that highly regulated? Like,

can we ever accidentally invest in something that's not real? No, if you logged into the ASX and you were investing you're not going to get scammed there but if you met someone and they're like hey georgia king i am a stockbroker i will broker stocks on your behalf that's where you've got to be a bit wary about the authenticity of that person and that's where the ASIC you know financial advisory register comes in handy so if you are going to go see a financial advisor you can look them up and see if they're registered and have any complaints against them and making sure that they're actually qualified etc so for me go and look up that person and see their history I think in 2021 it's not too hard to see if someone has a track record or not

but historically it's been a lot more convoluted than it is today okay this is a throwback to an earlier episode I know exactly what you're about to say would you consider MLM to be a scam absolutely and I've spoken about this so many times there are a number of reasons right and please don't think that for even two seconds I think that MLMs are a scam for absolutely everybody there's like a one percent of those scams that they're making money but they're making money off scamming people so like that's not a good thing for anyone who doesn't know MLMs are multi-level marketing schemes yeah and and to me I do genuinely believe that they are pyramid schemes parading as sheep so you know instead of having an actual

pyramid scheme they always always always sell a product so that could be essential oils it could be you know workout stuff it could be what like kitchenware it could be literally anything but usually actually not even usually georgia always there is a product associated with it to masquerade this pyramid scheme and that's what they'll say someone says or if you say to someone hey georgia that's a pyramid scheme they'll be like no but we sell a product and you'll be like you are still a scam my friend but the reason i think that is scammy is because so many people get lulled into this false sense of security where they think, oh, I'm going to run my own business and I'm actually going to have this really great support network and I'm going to do all these cool things.

When in reality, it's going to cost you more than what you're actually making from it. And it's not a good thing at all because they own your entire IP and you don't actually get your own business. You're so reliant on somebody else. So my opinion there is if you want to be a business owner, go join the business Bible. Obviously not being promotional here. I genuinely believe you should go and join the business bible instead of joining a mlm that is going to lead you down the wrong track love that and also go back and listen to our mlm episode i think from season three season three season three imagine having that many seasons that we get confused and how cool would you love it um they as a business owner how worrying are scams for you because i feel like

they would kind of be a threat to you as well not just as an individual but as a business owner absolutely and they are quite concerning and i've actually seen a few friends not recently but in the last couple of years i guess that's recently have a hacker come into their computer system and change invoices so you pay money to a separate bank account and these friends worked in the real estate industry so these amounts of money were people's home deposits oh my god yeah so what would happen is they'd send the bank details through to the person who needed to pay the home deposit and then they'd pay them it'd all be well and good and they'd be like yep paid it no problems and then the real estate agent would say great thank you so much georgia congratulations uh

we'll send you the receipt once he hits the account because usually those things aren't instant because it's such a big transfer and then a couple of days later they'll be like oh it's not there but then a couple of days later it's too late so for me if you are transferring a home deposit i would absolutely just call the real estate agent and go hey don't want to be a pest but could you just confirm your bsb and account number before i make this transfer yeah just to get it verbally as well and i know a couple of people who work in real estate who will only do it verbally and get you to like write it down and then spell it out because so many times this happens and it's terrifying but that's all about security as well so here at cheese on money and

Darzella we have psycho levels of security yeah I was going to say I can't imagine you'd just be like yeah whatever send it through yeah it'll be fine ask poor Jess like we can't even make changes to our emails without our IT person getting involved because it is such a high level of security which is honestly so necessary because I also run a wealth business yeah and my clients personal details they're really important to me and they should never ever ever be compromised Yeah, love it. All right. Do scammers target certain demographics of people? Look, not necessarily. It feels like that when we hear these stories that it's always the elderly that's targeted or, you know, the young people or, you know, the people who owe tax or whatever it

is. But according to Scamwatch, there's actually no specific demographic that's targeted. And we all really need to be super careful and vigilant in saying that certain scams will target certain people so people who are on online dating apps or websites that are targeted for romance scams particularly if they're new to these sites and they're not very experienced they might not be able to pick them up as quickly whereas i think you know you and ig if we were on tinder today i think we'd pretty quickly see something and be like oh that's too good to be true or that's a scam or yeah profile's not written well yeah but i would assume that someone who's maybe not a millennial or gen z or y they might actually not see that and not have the level of conviction when

it comes to going ah i don't think that's actually what they say they are yeah and if you've been out of the game as they say for a long time and someone's like hey candy candy okay um you're a lovely looking lass let's get dinner online because i'm fake um like you go for it that was a weird spiel um but you know what I mean they would be less suspicious whereas we'd be like no Derek no God that was weird keep on talking Victoria handballing back to you okay I really like that but in saying that this is creepy and I'm totally happy to share this with the She's On The Money community but do you know what you can do you can screenshot people's profiles on on dating apps because I met Steve on a dating app I did this then I have no shame

screenshot it you can reverse search on google from an image you can yeah yes yeah okay obviously i just did my research uh it's you did this with steve not with steve but it's how i found out that a couple of profiles had stolen pictures and were using them and they weren't theirs because you know sometimes they are legit and people are legitimate people behind the accounts but then they're actually not who they say that's catfishing isn't it yeah exactly and so if you reverse image search it and then it comes up with like hot male model you're like well that's clearly not you as the first thing on google yeah so i used to just block and delete them but too many people aren't that savvy or aren't that creepy not sure which one it is but let's move on if you are worried

about people in your life being taken advantage of because you're not as savvy or as creepy as i am it's a really good idea to point them in the direction of the scam watch website which we will link in the show notes as that has a really comprehensive list of what kind of behaviors that you should be really mindful of so obviously if things feel off and your gut is telling you it's not right nine times out of ten it's not right you gotta listen to your gut you absolutely do all right we will be back just after the break to chat how we can avoid being scammed and very importantly, what to do if we or if someone we know has been scammed. Stick around, friends. Alrighty, guys, don't forget that this podcast is not the only place we chat about scams

and money we're also on the facebook 163 how old are you you call it the facebook i'm 108 i've just aged well uh we've got the facebook we've got the instagram we've got the tiktok we do the newsletter the other thing we have is a reviews page at the bottom of itunes victoria divine we do and that is where you can leave lovely comments about how delightful georgia king's analogies are and how much we like Jessica's laugh on the pod on Friday drinks so if you would like to leave us a lovely review please do so because not everybody on the internet is as kind no and if you give us five stars I think that helps with the algorithm I'm not one for the technology as we know but I think it does help um it helps us reach more people yeah Georgia King is right it helps us build our

community stay relevant and make sure that we can keep the podcast going yes so please if you have time guys we would love it if you could leave us a little review do you know what else we love georgia king what talking about scams so we do let's get back into it okay so we know now that scams are quite prevalent that they are jing king we know what some types of scams out there are we only really scratch the surface but we don't have hours we've got minutes um so how do we actually avoid being scammed all right so it sounds really stereotypical but stay vigilant and be aware that scams actually exist I think too many of us are too trusting which is really sweet and I think it's really kind that we just assume that everybody has our best interests at heart and that's actually

not the case so definitely always second guess things especially if they're over the internet and from people you've never met don't be uncreative with your passwords like I can be often and I'm sure you can be often Georgia tempting though it may be to just use the same across the board, that is a very easy way of making yourself a target. So definitely do not do that. Keep in mind, as I said, Georgia, before, if something is too good to be true, probably is. If a business or individual is requesting your details or wants to transfer you money or vice versa, you should treat it with suspicion. You should never, ever, ever send money, provide your account details or your credit card details to anybody you don't know. And as I said,

if anybody ever calls you hang up call back the landline if they call you and say hey it's virgin money be like hey virgin money so excited to have this conversation i'll call back your call center no problems and if they start arguing with you like oh no don't worry about that no no my friend you have just let me know that that is a scam because anybody who works for some reputable organization will know that that's you just making sure that you're in the right place at the right time and on top of that i'm not very good at this but that's okay the tip is keep your socials private if you can it is crazy what we expose online every day without much thought for what the consequences could even be g and if you do see something suspicious just report it to the

platform get it done don't you think it is quite whack how much we do expose ourselves online like how much we all the images that are out there everything we've ever said all of the cookies that we accept like it is so bad it is crazy and about 18 months ago just before COVID hit yeah somebody took all of my photos from my Instagram I remember this oh wait no I don't remember this I remember when someone like tried to steal shoes on the money they made some I don't know maybe that was a lot too yeah same same different way but someone tried to be me on tinder but my name was Sarah and I lived in Richmond fun which was really creepy and you know what it was really weird because my partner's best friend was literally like what the hell

this is you know my bestie's girlfriend did he think no wait he didn't think it was you because it was Sarah no and he also I think he knows me well enough to know that you know that ain't you no not me I'm obsessed with Steve like that would never happen but that's okay so he took screenshots of it and sent it to me and was like hey what's this and I was like hey I've got no idea really creepy please match with them so he did and you know on tinder it says that they're local it was someone close because they lived like three kilometers from wherever he was and that's creepy that's so weird so anyway he reported them for faking a profile etc it got taken down but like the idea that someone could screenshot my instagram and then create a story around that

and the profile looked legit right because my instagram photos like if you just take a couple of you know selfie pictures and whatever else I've got in there you string it together it would look like my dating profile because do you know what that's where I got my dating profile photos anyway yep creepy it's a funny old world that we live in Victoria do you know what was a good thing about that though Georgia they said I was 23 oh girl still man still got it not bad that is the take no one questioned that part of it hey now me what should we do if we have been scammed okay hey, I'm a big dibber-dobber, so you should report it. Great.

Where you're going to report it is going to be completely dependent on what the scam is. So first things first, you could report it to the ACCC, as we mentioned before, and I think it's so important because this is what's going to help other people determine if it's a scam or not and actually alert that agency to know that this scam is running so that they can tell people and maybe put it on an EDM and let people know and be like,

hey, cool, if you get an email from Centrelink or you get a call from Centrelink it's not us so that they can forewarn people and this is you actually helping so it's not just hey report it because they'll take them down sadly a lot of the time you're never able to trace these people but you're actually protecting others which arguably is just as important and then depending on the scam you should make sure that you are securing your personal information so go ahead and change your pins and your passwords and anything that you think that a scammer may be able to access and then exploit and just make sure you're looking after yourself my friends if you or someone you know has been through this and is suffering

mentally because of it because this can impact you dramatically please reach out to the many free services we have here in australia like lifeline beyond blue etc we're gonna have a few in the show notes or just tee up a chat with your gp to discuss a mental health care plan option the other thing that we often talk about on the podcast is the debt free helpline yeah yeah the national debt helpline that's the one these guys are actual legends we'll put that in there as well they're free and then also the government funded called id care they provide support to victims of identity crime so if it's literally not just a scam and someone has literally been pretending to be you that is a really great place to start and again we will put their details in the show

notes do you know how sad this is though g about where this episode has come from this episode has literally come from so many people dming us more recently saying hey i was bit by this scam or hey i think this is a scam so i definitely know they are a little bit more prevalent at the moment and i genuinely think coming out of covid people are a little bit more trusting because we've created that sense of community over covid and we're more likely to go you know what you're right At the ATO, they would call me because there's no way they'd just send a letter because I can't go in and see them. Like, we are so much more likely to accept that something is online.

But I think we just need to stay really vigilant and just really aware of our circumstances. It's also something that we just don't really talk about that much beyond like having different passwords for each platform and banking, etc. Like when they said I was going to get arrested, I was like, this is it for G. Yeah. I got to throw sheets on the money away. i'm going to prison i don't know what i've done but it's over i heard you get a call in prison and that could have been your podcast every week so that's okay we would never let you go

thank god um my last question here v is will we get our money back if we have been scammed no sorry that is the heartbreaking part at the end of the day according to our friends at scam watch we're not really our friends they're just a website i've frequented a lot they're also not sponsoring this podcast. They're a government website. Yeah, they're a little government website. They're really helpful, especially when doing research for a scams podcast. But if you've lost money to a scam, usually that's it and you're not going to get your money back, which is why I'm saying things like, please be vigilant if you are going to transfer a house deposit. You know what? It just takes you two seconds to pick up the phone and call the real

estate agent. Real estate agent receptionists are usually really delightful and they will be more than happy to help you out. You're not being annoying. And I think so many people need to hear that because so many people are like, oh, I don't want to call. I don't want to put somebody else up. No, my friend, if it is involving money, your mental health, your actual finances, you're not annoying anybody. Just ask the question, because if it isn't the right thing, you will be so grateful that you actually asked and they'll be thinking that you're crazy and they'll be like, oh, my gosh, that crazy thing could have happened to you. I'm so glad you checked so sadly not nine times out of ten but if you were scammed and paid someone by credit card

you might be able to receive a charge back from that credit card provider or bank which will most likely be a refund but often it's a little bit more complex so that is something that you should look into so contact your credit card provider if that's how you've been scammed god covered so much today victoria divine it's a little bit scammy it's a little bit fluffy it's a little bit different but I genuinely think we need to talk about these things because more often than not people are really embarrassed that they get stung yeah they make you feel silly but I think a really important thing to point out here is scammers are so smart like they've gotten to the point where when they send you an email that email looks so legit that you'll be questioning

your questioning of it so they are smarter than actually anybody assumes and I think that if you get stung it is not your fault but i think that you know always trying to not be too naive and not be too you know trusting is actually going to be of massive benefit here all right so to wrap today's show today guys we've learned that we need to stay vigilant to avoid being scanned because that word a lot vigilant that is the word of the show even though we think it won't happen it definitely can happen to us and intellect really isn't a part of the conversation it happens to everyone um so we've got that uh if we do want to have a more comprehensive look at the state of scams in australia definitely look at scam watch and if you do need to report there's a

really comprehensive list there as well and it's really easy yes and if you have been scammed by someone over the phone don't call your mum call the ato slash whoever the agency is claiming to be and then call us because we want to see and then call us and have a chat all right v i do think that is all we have time for today sadly sadly sadly it is all we have time for today but just before we head off we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to australia's aboriginal and torres strait islander peoples the traditional custodians of the lands the waterways and the skies all across australia we thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn we pay our respect to elders past and present and we share our friendship and

our kindness and remember guys that the advice shared on cheese on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the money, exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise Victoria Devine is not a scammer. She's an authorised representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management,

Proprietary Limited, ABN 34132463257, AFSL 339151. And if you're not sick of hearing Georgia say that or maybe you're questioning me, which, to be honest, is actually really important for you to do true look me up on the ASIC find a financial advisor list and you'll see I'm really legit or google Forbes 30 under 30 who's with me okay get out do what we'll see you next week guys bye guys oh wait thanks to Tony Lodge for editing today's show and putting it together welcome to the team welcome to the team thank you for being here we love you bye guys