She's On The Money - She's an Imposter!

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

Have you ever not gone for a job because you don’t think you’re qualified enough even though you have stacks of experience? Do you ever feel like a fraud in your job and that eventually you’ll get found out? Well sweets, there’s a v good chance you have a little case of imposter syndrome and we want to fix that. Join V+G as they talk through why imposter syndrome is plaguing millennials’ finances and what we can do to combat those naughty feelings of self doubt. BRACE YOURSELF FOR AN INSPO EPISODE FRIENDS!Love the pod but looking for a more hands-on approach to your money? Look no further. Our budgeting & cash flow masterclass is the tool you need to help overhaul your finances for good. Join Victoria as she steps you through your budgeting and cash flow with all of the smarts and none of the intimidating jargon. Finally, if you're in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we've got you sorted - simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast! The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Have you ever not gone for a job because you don't think you're qualified enough, even though you have stacks of experience? Have you ever stopped yourself from asking for a pay rise because you don't really think you're worthy, even though your colleagues say that you're pretty great. Do you ever feel like a fraud in your job and that eventually you'll get found out? Yes. Well, if like us, you answered yes to any or maybe all of those questions,

then it's likely you have imposter syndrome, a phenomenon that's holding us back not only professionally, but financially. And we think it's about time that changed. Yes, did I? exactly right my name is Georgia King and joining me today for what I think is going to be quite an empowering little chat I think it will be my friends we've got VD on the mics over here and why'd I say friends not friend Georgia I'm a surprise we have the illustrious Tony Lodge joining us today because I thought that tuning into a conversation between three pals is going to be a lot more empowering and a lot more relatable than just Georgia King and I going, yeah, cool, this makes sense.

Here are the stats and facts because last week Tony and I were having a great chat about imposter syndrome and how we both suffer from it and you probably heard part of that in one of our most recent money diaries and we were like, what a better time to drag Tony into the chat to talk about imposter syndrome. I'm here for it. You're here for it? I feel like I already even don't belong in this.

Oh, my God. So there's my imposter syndrome. I'm like, oh, my God, Jay King, she's so intimidating and cool. Yeah, Georgia is really scary. She always wears this really cool puffer jacket as well. And I'm like, I need a puffer jacket. She's so well-dressed just like all the time. I'm wearing my active wear, guys.

I know, but who looks that good in active wear? It's a crying shame. So rude. So let's get into it, guys. It's not just the three of us that feel imposter syndrome. According to a study in the Journal of General Internal Medicine, US study, 82% of the population feels imposter syndrome at some stage of their career.

For anyone who isn't familiar with this concept, V, can you outline exactly what we're talking about? Absolutely. So as spoken about before, imposter syndrome is when you feel like a fraud, usually in the professional space where you feel as though you're going to get found out at any moment. Now, if you're in the situation where maybe you did lie about your credentials and your university degrees and stuff, that theory is probably incredibly well warranted and I'd probably out myself now and then.

It's also probably not imposter syndrome. if you've actually lied to get a job. Yeah, I actually believe that is called fraud, full stop. Like it's not imposter syndrome. But imposter syndrome is where you just feel as though you aren't deserving of the role or the place or the position that you're currently in. And it often manifests itself as a fear of the success

that you're going to achieve or the failure that you might inevitably come up against. And it also manifests itself in a way that often leans towards a tendency to be quite self-depreciating and to also self-sabotage and because of that it can really hinder our careers and our progression and our personal development which is why it has to get out like get out the door put it in the bin see ya bye that's the end of the podcast we've just decided it shouldn't exist anymore so therefore

it doesn't but most of us probably think it's a relatively new concept when in reality it is not imposter syndrome was first articulated by researchers Ames and Clance back in 1978 which is much further away than we thought it was because if you ask me 1990 was 10 years ago and it was actually like 30 so true yes but they found out that people who had experienced imposter syndrome would attribute their success to knowing the right people or to luck or to being in the right place at the right time rather than to any real skill and this is something that really frustrates me because I hear it a lot and you guys would hear in the office often if anybody says I'm so lucky I jump down their throats quite literally like I probably need to tone it down

a bit I'm like Tony it is not lucky that you are here you are here because you are skill and I hate when people just go oh yeah it's so lucky like you know what lucky is lucky is finding two dollars on the ground you don't accidentally stumble into a career it wasn't a mistake it was a choice and you were chosen and I think that in Australia with tall poppy syndrome being so prevalent it's so easy to inflict those things on ourselves because it's not often you hear another woman especially stand up and say I'm really proud of myself I do I do really well like nobody says that because you kind of side-eye them and go oh okay people don't like to hear that people don't like to hear it and I love to hear that and I always ask people are you proud of yourself like

you did such a great job are you proud because it's one thing to say hey gee I'm really proud of that thing you did last week and another to be like hey gee that was sick are you proud of what you did like just changing the narrative around how we actually value ourselves is so important especially as women I feel that if you do come out and say I'm really proud of what I did or did you see that I did that and I did a great job people are like wow tickets yeah like you're not actually allowed to say those things because it means that you're cocky when actually I think oh nice yeah you did a really good job but I just wouldn't feel comfortable doing that myself exactly and I think there's you know I don't want to say there's right and wrong ways to do that

because I don't believe that there is a right or a wrong way to celebrate yourself but I think that a lot of people just assume that it's all wrong when in reality that's not the case like you're not wrong in celebrating your successes no matter how big or small but getting back to the Iams and Clance research from 1978 they also established that those who experienced imposter syndrome had difficulty accepting compliments and recognition they would often dwell instead on negative feedback and that people with imposter syndrome overestimate the intellect and competence of those around them and would compare their areas of weakness

with the strengths of others. It's as if you're describing me. Oh, really? This is definitely how I feel basically 100% of the time. So I feel like so many people do that and I've been really guilty of that as well. I just assume everybody around me is so much smarter than me and I think it's really nice to be able to say,

no, I deserve to be here. I'm going to drag my own seat up to the table and I'm going to sit at the table because I deserve to be here. Like, we are intelligent people and it actually breaks my heart to think that the people that I love the most are actually feeling like they're not competent. What? You deserve so much better than that.

Like, I think it's one thing for people to say, oh, yeah, like, you know, I've just joined a new company, I'm 20 years old, the average age of the employees here is 50 and they all have eight degrees and I don't even have one yet. I understand why you might feel a little bit out of your league. but you know even for people like tony right tony's so intelligent so well regarded in this space and i thought i lucked out when i got her stole her from radio i genuinely was so impressed and the people that i spoke to because we obviously have a really close association with

the radio station that i stole tony from um they were all like oh my gosh she's the best you're gonna be so happy yeah but then to hear that you then say something like oh i feel like i shouldn't be here. It's like, wow, like nobody else thinks that of you. And I guarantee that those experiencing imposter syndrome don't have people going, they're the wrong person for the job. Absolutely not. Because we're people pleasers and we're trying too hard. And that's why everybody loves us. Going back to the research, instead of going off on my tangents, which I feel like I'm going to be really good at this episode, Imes and Clance found that it also disproportionately impacts high achievers, women, people of colour and minority groups. And it's really common in

millennials who incidentally are the main demographic of our podcast, which is a huge reason why we have to talk about this more often. So Vy, you have a background in behavioural psychology that we do draw on quite a bit in these conversations. I feel like finance is psychology. Yeah, well, it's closely linked, right? Yeah, I mean, it's psychology with numbers. yeah so why does this happen I think it's just in our nature you know it's really sad but I think it's something that has been pushed on us that we just don't feel deserving of the accolades and the successes that we have and therefore we doubt that people have you know given them to us and I feel it I do it all the time and I feel so grateful to have achieved the success that I have

I know it's not luck I deeply know it's not luck because I work my butt off to be in the position that I'm in and I care so deeply about our community and I care so deeply about the causes and my team and you know if I pragmatically look at it I know why I'm where I am it's not luck it was I created this but even saying those words makes me feel a little bit icky because I feel like oh is are people going to listen to this and think I've got tickets on myself because I don't think I'm lucky for being in the position but that's exactly what we're saying even saying it makes me feel icky and it makes me feel like I shouldn't be having this conversation or celebrating my own successes or using examples about myself in this particular situation but the amount of

times I felt out of my depth and out of my realm in this space it's crazy but it's not what I know our community sees and I'm so grateful that they don't see that because we'd be in a whole heap of trouble if you guys saw me the way I see me but why do you think that of all of those groups of people that suffer from imposter syndrome at higher percentages why do you think millennials are among those because I can understand I mean speaking from my own experience as a woman I know that that's why I feel it because I think oh I don't deserve to be here and I've previously worked in very male dominated workplaces and industries but why millennials is it just because we're young and we don't think we fit in? I think it's because we are young

obviously the research stretches back way before millennials were even in existence it was before our parents actually met to create us I think there are a couple of reasons for this one it's the stories we tell ourselves right so if we repeatedly tell ourselves a story that we are a fraud we are going to believe it after a certain period of time and it's a really vicious cycle but then on the flip side I think as millennials we have been afforded the opportunity to be far more successful than any other generation because we're now living in an era where it's okay to be young and in power and it's okay to be young and in leadership positions and that's being far more embraced whereas if you take it back to 1978 it was actually really uncommon for there to be working

mums and you know we're more empowered these days but that then perpetuates us because we compare our circumstances to the circumstances of people we look up to and people that we've had experiences with and you know my parents have had great careers but they've had a lot of longevity in their careers whereas me I bounced around jobs and found the right fit for me and that seems to be looked down upon and I think that you know we just have a completely different experience but in the age of technology which makes me sound really old we're able to learn so much easier like we had Google doing university assignments and you know Tony you could jump into a job and not know something but it's actually okay because you can google it find a way to solve that problem

and I think that in 2021 millennials are better at problem solving than gathering knowledge whereas historically careers were about okay well you needed 30 years experience to gather all the knowledge that you needed to do that specific job so I would say we're more problem solvers these days than historically not because we're smarter but because we have access to the resources and that therefore means we feel as though that 30 years experience that a tech person had we don't actually need that to solve the problem because that person with the 30 years of knowledge actually made us a youtube video we went and looked at it and solved our issue ourselves yeah and then we feel maybe not as competent because you know that was the way it worked

what about with women v so they were another group that we chatted about just before why do you think that women are impacted more adversely than men let's jump back into stats and give you some hot tips but we've all heard a thousand times this but it's really important to reiterate again but women go for jobs when they are a hundred percent qualified for that job whereas men will apply for them if they are 60 qualified for them because they just go yeah i'll work it out no problems they genuinely just have more confidence at an underlying base level than we do whereas we want to tick all the boxes and dot all the i's and cross all the t's and whereas i would want to go into a job and know a hundred percent of it instead of rely on the fact that you can learn a

lot on the job whereas men are more likely to be like yeah I'll pick that stuff up it'll be quite easy and that really upsets me because it's not fair like how come they got that level of confidence where can I get some of that because no one told me I wasn't confident but my risk tolerance is less than men I'm less likely to want to take risk whereas men are far more risky and I think that that underlyingly just plays into it unfortunately when it comes to most workplaces men specifically white straight men are able to glide through because of the system that has been designed by them is actually for them so that's really nice for them and they don't doubt their inclusion at the table because they already built a belief system that they belong and because

generally speaking they've never really been made to feel like they shouldn't be at that table like the table was built by men and they always sat around their own table and now we are asking to join a table that we weren't always welcome at of course we're feeling apprehensive about knocking on that door yeah this is also worsened for people of color and other minority groups who have to fight much harder to get a seat at that table and who already deal with added adversity which is wildly unfair again like we talk about this you know we're a room of white women and we are privileged to be in that position but it was through no choice of our own and the same if you're a minority group or a person of color like it makes no sense to not be allowed a table because

you're just as smart just as competent and just as you know deserving of that seat as we are and it just baffles me then in 2021 we're still fighting for these chairs that are rightfully yours and we have beautiful conversations about this all the time in our community in our dms particularly about people saying hey like this is my situation and i just feel like i'm not deserving and i'm not this and i'm not that and it's just like so heartbreaking to hear your stories but I'm also just so grateful that you're willing to share them with me and you know want to open up and ask for some guidance because you do deserve that seat at that table and sometimes you just need someone to say no you deserve it for you to feel like you can't go and open that door you can

apply for that job and let us today be that person that says no you deserve this no you've worked hard no you've done a really good job and we are so damn proud of you because too often we forget to tell the people that surround us that we're proud of them and that they are doing a good job and that I think plays into it as well where we just you don't hear that we're really good at forgetting that and only hearing the negative feedback like how many times do we you know you and I do it in the office all the time Tony like we'll hype each other up and we'll be excited about stuff we're doing and I'll be like that's sick or this is sick and then we make one small mistake and we ruminate over and we're like oh I'm so sorry about that for ages and it's like stop like

who cares look at all the good stuff you're doing that tiny mistake doesn't actually remove all the amazing stuff that you've been doing no but somehow mentally it derails all of those positive comments and they fly straight out of our brains and onto the floor and the only thing taking up space in our brain is that one thing that we did that probably wasn't even that big of a deal so I think that it's also important to remember that what you're placing priority on might not be the right thing. Yeah. So moving on, and back to the crux of this podcast, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a money podcast. So how is this impacting our finances? Significantly, my friends. So it's holding us back from bigger and better career opportunities, be that a new job or a

potential promotion at our current workplace, or even the idea that we don't deserve a pay rise that we should be asking for. So often it's also not asking for what we are worth. And this is big for freelancers who are trying to work out their hourly rate but also people who haven't had pay rises in a significant period of time because often bigger corporations are going to rely on the fact that they're just floating through like we don't need to give them a pay rise because they haven't asked and sometimes we just don't have the confidence so they let us cruise through for years and then when we finally do ask they act like it's a level of audacity that we shouldn't have. So I think it's impacting our finances significantly because one, we don't think we

deserve it. But two, other people start to feel comfortable with the fact that you haven't asked or haven't asserted any level of dominance around the fact that you do have a great amount of capability. Now, the other day I saw a post, it was back in March, from a person called Alice in our community who had a job offer come up, but she was really confused about how much money to ask for the job was massive step up from what she'd been doing previously and then when she googled the average range for what people in that kind of job were making it was so so so much more than what she was currently on and she felt like an imposter for asking for that much but fortunately in truth she's on the money community form we rallied behind her and encouraged her to shoot

for that high number I'm really proud of you but that's something I see a lot and by the way she did get that high number which is good job Alice I know cheers Alice but I think it's also really important to remember that if you're going for a new job whether it is in the same industry or not let's value that new job not what your current salary was like that new job has a value what is it don't you think it's hard though V as someone with imposter syndrome when you're going for those jobs you're just like I'm just lucky to be here just have like pay me don't even pay like don't worry about like you pay me what you want to pay me because you don't want to miss out on that opportunity because you don't really believe that you're worth anything you know what

I mean like yeah and that breaks my heart everything in this episode is but I think you need to remember it's not luck let's stop let's stop using the word lucky nobody is lucky people are worthy of you're lucky if you win the lottery you're not lucky if you're awarded a job interview because someone chose to have you there it was a choice and a job interview is actually two ways you're not just there to impress them you're there to work out if that's the right fit for you and you need to remember that you need to do the right thing for you because at the end of the day money is not the key indicator of happiness and there's actually a cap and I think it's about $75,000 a year where the more you once you earn more than that you actually don't get happier

you get more stressed and it's not to say that money doesn't buy happiness it absolutely can because it affords you a level of financial security but I think it's really important to remember that find the right role for you feel comfortable in it and also remember it's a two way street. So imposter syndrome can really set us back, but it's also just not fair that we have it. Full stop, end of story. And I think it's a lot about mindset and some of the best people, you know, we had a, we had a money diarist the other day, and that was the one that you and I did. And she didn't have a degree. She was the only one in the room in her career that didn't have a degree. Was she any less deserving of being there, Tony? Absolutely not. Exactly.

She worked really hard. She'd been working through lots of jobs for years and years. And she said she had a great boss who gave her heaps of support and she still didn't feel like she deserved to be there and if we can't even accept the praise from the people that are literally signing our paychecks every month then what are we up to yeah and something that I have as a little bit of a mantra especially when things get hard or I don't feel like I'm in the right room or I just feel like you know oh and you know I get this a fair bit when I get offered a new opportunity I'm like I've never done this before oh my gosh it's going to be so hard and that is that effort will not betray you and if you are putting in that effort is never going to betray you you are always in

the right room and I think that that is a really important piece of it because if you're putting in the effort I'm sorry you're not in the wrong room that's why you're there whereas you know some people do experience a bit of imposter syndrome and I've spoken to them before and this is probably you know less sexy because they're not trying hard enough and they're not actually doing the job they're there for and that's where it becomes not a surprise to them when they do end up you know maybe losing that job because they're not putting in that time and that effort but the things that make good employees have nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with the tenacity and the energy and the person that they bring to work

every day it's nothing to do with am I smart enough do I have enough degrees no one cares about that and I think with that let's take a really short break because we are deep in conversation and I know we'll get back into more deep conversation so let's continue this conversation after a quick break don't go anywhere all righty so how do we go about combating imposter syndrome so first things first I think the important thing is to surround yourself with people you love and care about build a community of people who support you both professionally and personally and I am genuinely so grateful to have so many beautiful people who support me in my personal life but on top of that I also have a

group of women who I think is kind of like my business mates and I'm actually excited because I'm going off to lunch with them today I love your biz friends I know I know they're all so fancy I know no but they're not and it's funny because you know you've only been here a month so you haven't met them but they're all exactly like me and when you break down other people you're like oh you looked really shiny on Instagram but you're actually just the type of gal who stuffs a whole profiterole in her mouth I love that yeah that's why I want to meet them yeah like they're my people like I love them um and we rally around each other and we really build each other up and encourage each other to take risks so find your people and love them hard and if you can't find

those people the Shades on the Money community is here to do that for you but finding those people also helps you realize that other people who you think of is really confident and successful and shiny um just really feel exactly the same way it's funny how often imposter syndrome comes up as an underlying theme in the conversations that I have with these women who own businesses and successful ones and you know one of them's been on the front of the AFR magazine and you just go what do you mean you're not good enough it just baffles me that these incredible people still harbor so much self-doubt and so I think it's really important to remember that it doesn't matter how high you climb you still feel like a fraud and it's not good and it's not just you in

your grad role it's not just you in your career it's not because you went on mat leave and you've come back it's none of those things that is an underlying piece of self-belief that you actually need to change the narrative around and you're going to experience it consistently until you decide to change your mindset because no one else can change that for you isn't there something called like a rival fallacy or something like that a rival fallacy I think so it's like you think when you get this big job that you'll finally be happy that you'll fix it yeah that you'll finally feel that confidence but the fallacy is that you don't feel that way you feel exactly the same which is why we need to change our mindsets right exactly what Georgia said because

we're basically sitting here gaslighting ourselves into thinking that we aren't good enough to be where we are or be where we want to be. Why would we gaslight ourselves? Exactly. Let's not do that anymore. Exactly. So that's the end of the podcast. Let's stop. Well, I've still got some tips and the next one is say yes to stop holding yourself back. When we say no to opportunities because we're afraid of failure or because we don't think that we're qualified enough for the role, we are immediately shutting ourselves off from any form of growth that we could achieve. And it's common to not only think the worst possible outcomes in these situations but let's start focusing on what could happen instead of what could go wrong and that's kind of the quote that you know I have I

think it's on my phone I screenshot it sometimes to remind myself when I say it on Instagram it's like well what if I fail and it's like yes but what if you fly I was literally about to say oh really I see it and I always screenshot things I want to remember and that's why I have like 3,000 screenshots on my phone that I actually never look at but at the time it makes you feel like you're like really taking an image yeah you've got on your do you think there's some kind of app i could get that could just delete my screenshots for me when i take them and they're useless it's like a two month yeah just like a two month thing and it's like yep she never came back and looked at that so it's gone you just lost it b that's fine the next thing i want literally

everybody in our community to do is cut out any form of negative language that we use to describe ourselves and alter the stories that we tell ourselves. As I was saying earlier, G and T. G and T. Oh, gin and tonic. Tasty. So cute. These tasty ladies are coming right up. But as I said to you guys earlier, the stories we tell ourselves are a massive part of imposter syndrome and why it exists. So let's just stop and ask ourselves if we know that is factually true. I mean, taking on feedback is really important. It's not to say that we should just stop accepting any level of negative feedback because that can help us grow but what we're telling ourselves is that true and correct and let's go from there we need to just be kinder to ourselves and our bodies and

the people that are around us and something I found to be really helpful is actually to just use kinder language in general because often it's really hard to start with ourselves so start with the people that surround you whether that is your friends or your family or even just leaving really kind comments on people's posts on Instagram that starts to become a part of your everyday language you can set a habit you can set a trait I say it all the time oh my gosh I'm so kind to myself I'm so kind to others I didn't always talk about kindness but I think the more you talk about it extrovertedly the more it actually starts to internally become a part of your internal dialogue and monologue and I think that that's really important as well so the biggest tip there would

be start showering it on other people because once you do that it starts to internalize right it starts to soak in and that's when you can start growing and then the last thing here G is keep a list on your phone of everything you've achieved and the positive things people have said about you or good reviews from your podcast because so easily please leave a good review so easily like it's easy to forget that one we're people but two it's easy to forget all the good reviews when you read one negative one calling you out for something that you never believed you were yeah wow they think I'm that oh that's awful like that's horrendous like that makes me feel sick whereas I don't spend nearly the same amount of time ruminating over someone who says

oh it's my fave podcast that's such a beautiful comment but I go oh cool and then I move on like what Victoria we had this conversation when I've started on the podcast yeah which was like a year and a half ago those reviews were devastating they were and I told you not to read them and you kept reading them you never listen it's so hard not to and you you only focus on the negative things that people say and that's exactly what you said was like gee but we're getting so much positive feedback and all of this but it only takes one rotten egg to spoil the batter yeah I read a really cool um quote it was actually another meme that I screenshotted and won't be able to find if I looked for it right now yeah fair and it said um don't accept criticism

from somebody you wouldn't ask advice from. Oh, I love that. So like if this random person on the internet, meet lover 69 or whatever. No, it's not. It's great. That's great. Is that your fake username?

Yes, it is. If you see that pop up, it's me. But if you see them saying like, oh, Victoria sounds rude and I hate her hair or something, not true. I didn't actually ask you meet lover 69. I don't remember asking for your opinion. and you're not going to call up meet lover 69 and be like hey what do you think about this or like do you think you should invest this money on this like you would never do that also i couldn't call

that person because they're anonymous and they are choosing not to put their real name against their feedback because they don't have the guts to do that which is horrendous and i think it's funny because i've seen people before leave negative feedback or message our facebook group and I remember one time we did a Q&A on our stories on Instagram and we said, you know, we'll share your posts anonymously and so someone took it as this is anonymous and so obviously I could see who had messaged us and I was like, wow, okay.

So like I obviously replied, I didn't post it publicly and I just said, hey, like I'm so sorry that that's your experience, like I don't know where this is coming from and they replied immediately, like how did you work out who sent that? And I was like, well, it wasn't anonymous, it was going to be posted on us like I would never out you to the community and out you to other people I just wanted people to have a safe space to ask some questions and see what's going on and they were like oh my god I'm so sorry wait you're sorry because I now know who you are you're

providing that feedback or you're sorry that you said it like in which case why did you think that typing that literal essay out was realistic to begin with and it's really interesting because these people do tend to be keyboard warriors who just genuinely don't like to see you being successful or then you click on your on their profile and they've got two daughters or something and you go oh wow imagine if your daughter put themselves out online you know they were trying to be a creator or whatever and someone wrote that you would be so angry you'd be like hey that's my daughter you can't write that I'm like but you're perpetuating this horrible cycle of anonymity online where you're allowed to just have a go at someone because it's weird yes the internet is

such a weird place to be and it's kind of like the way people expect you to use like for example we're still talking about Instagram I see Instagram kind of like my house right like I have decorated my Instagram and my house in the way I want like and you wouldn't come into my house Tony and be like that artwork's horrible I cannot believe you have those books why why haven't you got more books on color and art and this and that whereas people seem to come on Instagram sometime and they're like why haven't you got more posts on this or that and it's like don't come into my house and tell me what I need to decorate it with or what I should be doing yeah and scream at me like you chose to come here you chose to follow me you don't have to it's actually a choice so don't do

it yeah and I think it's just really interesting that so many people have this audacity but they're not willing to back it up and often when you start to look into it the things people say about you are not a reflection of you they are a reflection of their insecurities and when you start to look deeply into it it's definitely not about me it was actually about you and it was about that you know their two daughters and the things that they're struggling with and it's often people projecting their fears and their failures onto you and it's so important to remember that and I know this is meant to be about imposter syndrome but a lot of people who suffer incredibly severely with imposter syndrome also deflect onto other people their issues like I'm not successful

enough to be here or I'm not you know this that or the other so then they're upset when other people seem to be achieving the things they think they're deserving of which is you know it's really sad and we live in a world where our success should not be detrimental to somebody else's and Ryan John who's a producer of this show and you guys would have heard him on our pods before but he has this quote that I think is really beautiful and probably a really great place to end this conversation but a rising tide lifts all ships oh it's cute isn't it and he actually uses it all the time when talking about community or what we should do or you know who we should share things with he's like no there's no such thing as competition like a rising tide lifts all ships Victoria and

I'm like I've never heard that before but it's really true and like we are all going to be higher because a rising tide it's all ships. Such a good egg. He's a good egg. He's a good egg. We are lucky to have him. Okay, I think that that is a nice little empowering place to leave it all, my friends. So, just before we head

off, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. we pay our respects to elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness

the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she is on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or a financial decision and we promise victoria divine is not an imposter she is an author i'm legit guys legit and she needs to believe it victoria divine is an authorized representative of australia pacific funds management proprietary pity little pity little pity littered abn 34132463257afsl339151 and with that i believe we will see you next week guys bye friends have a good week