She's On The Money - The Cost Of Care

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

Australians are some of the most underinsured people on the planet, there’s a reason that “she’ll be right” is a national saying! But you can never know what is around the corner with your health. Which is why today we’re talking about the cost of care with a very special guest Rhiannon Tracey who is a speaker, wellness advocate and the Founder & Executive Director at The Next Step SCI Recovery & Wellness Centre. The out of pocket cost impact to those of us affected by ill health can be terrifying. Depending on the condition, direct costs can range from hundreds to many thousands of dollars each year. Often these are compound by other indirect costs, such as lost income, impacting the sufferers and their caregivers. So join us for a very real and very eye opening conversation! LinksRhiannon TraceyThe Next Step SCI Recovery & Wellness CentreMatch with an insurance only Financial Advisor Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289. The SOTM promotion is limited to 15% off all orders over $AUD80 made via gotoskincare.com with the exclusive promo code. It is available to all Australian and New Zealand She’s On The Money listeners til 11.59PM Wednesday, April 19, 2023 AEST. It isn’t available to do your taxes.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money. She's on the money.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. There is no doubt about it that Australia is the lucky country, the standard of living, access to healthcare, quality of life for most people compared to international standards is kind of high. And perhaps as a reflection of this, Aussies are also some of the most underinsured people on the planet too. Isn't that right, Fi? I go on and on and on about this. This ain't my first rodeo, my love. But it seems like all this luck has given us a very, very false sense of security. And there's a reason that she'll be right as a national saying, but you can never know what is around

the corner with your health, which is exactly why, Bec, today we are talking about the cost of care and we have a very special guest who joins us today, my friend Rhiannon Tracy. Welcome to the show, my love. I'm blushing that we're friends. We basically became best friends a week ago today. We met at an event on the Gold Coast for L'Oreal, which was really fancy. I don't know about you, but I thought it was really cool to be working with L'Oreal and I've posted it all over my socials, as have you, so you clearly think it's a little bit fancy. We bonded over there, our mutual respect and love for kangaroo sightings. Yeah, and hair care. And hair care and beauty and fashion and literally everything else. But Rhiannon, can you tell my community a little bit

about yourself? Hello, she's on the money community. My name is Rhiannon. I'm a Scorpio, which I think is vital information for this community. It absolutely is. You're also a community member and have been for a long time. Absolutely. I have been living my life on wheels for the last 14 years. So after a diving accident happened two months before my 21st birthday, I was, I want to say gifted, but it wasn't really a gift, was it? It's like a really, really shitty gift. Shitty gift. But you know what? I donned my hot pink set of wheels and it's just how I roll through life now.

It is. And I literally am obsessed with your content. I feel like after hearing you speak, it was just a no-brainer to drag you onto the podcast because I feel like not only is accessibility something that we need to be talking about but you're really open and honest and frank about these conversations and breaking down some barriers that a lot of people often find really awkward when having these conversations because you're like oh you can't ask that and you're like heck yes you can it's fine how about we talk about x y and z and I just think this is how we should be having conversations because they are really respectful, but it also ultimately puts everybody in a better position. And I'm genuinely so excited to have you here and share, I guess,

your experience, but also talk about the research, talk about the cost of care, talk about what it actually means. Because as Bex said before, we kind of have this false sense of security and we think that we live in the lucky country and we think that the Australian healthcare system is the best thing in the entire world, which is true if you've never had anything significant happen. So Medicare and the Australian health system are great. And like I said before, we are called the lucky country for a reason. So I do think we need to acknowledge that privilege. But as good as our safety nets are, the out-of-pocket costs and the impact to those of us who are affected by ill health or disability can be absolutely terrifying.

And depending on the condition, the direct costs can range from hundreds of dollars to many thousands, if not, in your case, Rhiannon, millions of dollars. And often these are compounded by indirect costs like loss of income or impacting the sufferers or literally the people that surround you and the cost of your family members needing to take care of you. So, Rhiannon, I want to talk about the things that I, as an ex-financial advisor, find really sexy, and that's personal insurances. So you had an accident, you dived into a pool and came out of that pool are quadriplegic, but I want to know what was your insurance at the time of that accident and how did it help you? I love telling this story because my mum and I, we would go to

Bali every year and we would have the same argument and that would be, she would be telling me to get travel insurance. But you were young, you didn't need it. Exactly. I wanted to buy the genuine fake Louis Vuitton bags. The genuine. The genuine fakes. Yeah. They've got the Gucci logo on the front. Exactly. So it would be the same argument every year that $100 though saved my life and I did have travel insurance and I had it every year and I drill it into everybody's head who travels I had all the insurances and I love hearing that and I feel like it's one of those things that as young people we just go that will never happen to me I'm going to Bali and you know what I get it Bali is like a budget location so like you're not there going this is a multi-thousand

dollar you know Europe trip where you know an extra couple of hundred dollars is really not that much. You kind of look at Bali and I go, all right, we've got some sick, cheap jet star flights. What is the cheapest, best accommodation we can get? And then it just feels like insurance is one of those other burdens that you're like, I can't be bothered. But it is so worth it. And the amount of times I have had to drill into ex-clients and my friends and my family, I'm like, insurance, I want it to be the biggest waste of money you've ever made. I want you to buy it and not claim on it. That's the ideal outcome. Because even though, Rhiannon, you're in a better financial position. It's kind of shitty that you had to claim on it on the first place. And we

really need to understand how government health systems and insurances interact and I guess have a realistic appreciation of the true cost of poor health. So we can judge the appropriateness of types and levels of support to best suit our circumstances. And even with private health insurance and Medicare, you're often left with a massive gap to pay. So Rhiannon, I have a few facts and stats, and I know you can back this up because I've literally heard you talking about this, but here you go. Did you know? An Australian study investigating the effects of health care costs on individuals found that 14% of adults didn't receive the recommended care due to cost. For those living with chronic health conditions, that proportion was higher at 24%. Is this a

surprise? It actually still blows my mind because, you know, I was 21 when I was discharged from hospital. And not only was I unable to return to work, but my mum actually had to close her business to become my full-time carer because we couldn't afford carers. There was no NDIS. I think we got seven hours of respite a week from the government. Oh my God. That's not even a full work day for someone. No. I mean, the amount of commode chairs I saw my mum throw over the back fence just because she needed some kind of mental and physical release from being my full-time carer. She's like, heck no, get this out of my life.

Exactly. But it's just absurd that these are the costs associated with living with any kind of disability or, you know, physical trauma. And I mean, it makes sense. Bec, you grew up in more of a low income family. And I feel like this even stretches to, I guess, that side of our community where it's like, OK, cool. The cost of health care meant that you didn't receive the recommended care due to cost. Did you ever come across that or experience it personally or see it being experienced in your community? To be honest, not a lot when I was growing up because I guess like I just took for granted that going to the doctors and getting a half-price prescription medication with a healthcare car and things like that just made sense. Growing up, actually,

now that I'm older and I want to, for example, take care of my teeth, I desperately need to get wisdom teeth out. I desperately need to get all these. Same coin, same. Yeah, like fillings. Such an expensive process. And I'm like, I can't believe that's not covered by Medicare. So I guess it's not growing up I didn't really feel it, but I can imagine that my mum would have knowing what went on behind the scenes. Yeah, and I guess that experience makes a lot of sense

because when you're little, regardless of your circumstances, your parents often or your caregivers often shelter you from that. Like your parents weren't going to tell you if they're struggling to take you to the doctor or pay for a prescription. But as you get older, the pinch gets a little bit more real and I feel like for our community at the moment it's getting even more real because I'm having these conversations even just about bulk billing clinics becoming like hen's teeth like people like where bulk bills like so many doctors clinics are now going oh we don't do that anymore and to me

that's wild and I understand why like they're a business at the end of the day going and seeing a private GP is not a government run facility it's actually a private business and they are running it as such. And so it's kind of up to their discretion as to whether they extend you that grace or not. However, to me, it's wild that there aren't kind of like mandates of how many bulk billing clinics are in particular areas and stuff like that. So I feel like more now than ever, we're kind of feeling the healthcare pinch. But moving on, I have another statistic for you that won't come as a surprise to either people sitting at the table because I've shown you it before, but it might to people who are listening further research so from the same study suggested that

over 40 percent of individuals with depression anxiety or other mental health conditions just completely skip treatment and other care because of the cost it makes sense that's really sad 40 percent i know are you joking only 60 percent of people experiencing these things are getting the help that they need and the sad thing about it and the sad i should say the sad reality about it is well, I don't want to say the majority, but a lot of these people who need access to these, you know, mental health care and things like that are my community and people living with disabilities that require the physical care just as much as they require the mental health care. You were talking about it in your presentation that people who already have a pre-existing

disability are what, three times more likely to suffer from a mental health condition. And like, that makes sense because your, your lifestyle is already compromised and that is leading to you not feeling your, like your best self. And it just, to me, I just want to jump up and down about it because it's just so wildly unfair to me. That obviously takes into consideration absolutely no indirect costs like days off work from not being able to go to work or the reduced working capacity of becoming a carer. And you mentioned that just before, like your mum literally sold her business to look after you and I mean I'm sure if we spoke to your mum she'd be like oh I wouldn't have done anything else like Rhiannon is the one true love of my entire life and I totally get that right

because that's 100% that's love and that's family and that makes sense but like that doesn't mean that she wasn't impacted that doesn't mean that the emotional guilt that I lived with because it was something that had happened directly to me but indirectly to her so she was giving up her entire life to make sure that I had some kind of quality of my own. Yeah. And to be honest, that is so special. Like I just, your mum must be the biggest legend in the entire world. We love Shazza. We love Shazza. Love you Shazza. Love you Shazza. What a legend. So we're going to look at some of the real cost of care now for certain different types of injuries and diseases. And Rhi, we mentioned before, I would adore your insight on this. So one of my

favorite pieces of research that was ever done is by Zurich. It's the Zurich White Paper on the Cost of Care. And you guys have probably heard me talk about this before. If you're one of my financial advice clients or my ex-financial advice clients, you've probably had it sent to you about a million times when I rant on and on about getting appropriately insured. But let's talk about spinal cord injury to begin with. It's not going to be a surprise to you, but I think it is going to be a massive surprise to our community that the lifetime direct cost of quadriplegia can exceed $11 million for an individual. Yeah, I know.

It definitely still to this day makes me want to fall out of my chair when I hear those numbers because then I look at that in comparison to the disability support pension that I was on many years ago before I realised, well, I realised then that I had no choice but to build some kind of a career of my own because I just could not afford any kind of life. I couldn't even afford the means that I needed to be able to do personal care, go to the toilet, do the things, you know, so it absolutely blows my mind. Can we share that on the podcast, actually? Absolutely.

You and I had this conversation after, you know, meeting and you were like, oh my gosh, it costs me X to do this and Y to do that. Can you share that with the community? Because it blew my mind. There are so many hidden costs when it comes to spinal cord injury. and I always speak on the perspective of this injury because it's obviously the one that I live with, but people don't understand that it's not just what you see

is what you get injury. So, yes, somebody's paralysed. That can be obvious, sometimes not, but we're internally paralysed as well, which means that the injury itself has affected all of our internal organs and one of the main, I guess, things that is affected is our bowel and bladder function. So we require not just medication but also continence aids

to be able to go to the bathroom and they cost money. So for example, just to paint the picture, there's no such thing as TMI when it comes to these injuries. It costs me $1.65 every time I need to go and do a wee, but then you throw on top of that the cost of the medication I need to take to be able to do number twos. I worked it out a few months ago and it was actually more than what I earn on my full-time wage a year. So it was $86,000 roughly. And that is based on a good day of not drinking three litres of water a day. For she is a health queen. Yes, I'm a health queen, you know, and not having that extra coffee a day either. But there are so many hidden costs associated, which, you know, adds up to that, those millions of

dollars. And it still blows my mind to this day that the disability support pension is what it is. There's so many conversations around how NDIS really does help the disability community. Well, put it this way, before the NDIS existed, that $86,000 was coming out of mine or my family's pocket or my community's because we did a lot of fundraisers. Oh my gosh. It is wild to me that that would come out of your pocket. I'm so glad that the NDIS exists now and you're able to get that support because you bloody deserve it but the idea that that is coming out of your family's income like I don't know where my family would get that from and that's not even including you know a wheelchair this chair that I'm sitting in now is about ten thousand dollars and that's not

including the cushion and this is my it's not even including the cushion they're like that's just the base model you know I mean it's a nice looking this is not the GT the GT model but uh You know, so there are so many things and there's so much conversation around the NDIS. But for me, it really has saved my life and my mental stability. Yeah, no, I'm really grateful for it. And it's wild because it's not just you. So according to the Zurich White Paper, there are around 20,800 Australians who currently live with spinal cord injuries, which you won't be surprised about. but approximately half of those were working prior to having a spinal cord injury and they're never

going to be able to return to a working role so they're not actually able to generate an income that's correct yeah and it's wild right and I'm so proud of you for I guess beating those odds which is an absolute anomaly for this type of injury but that honestly from my perspective shouldn't be something that we're proud of for you it's something that should be given like you should be able to work you should be able to be catered for and have a role that makes sense with your injury but nine times out of ten when you talk to someone with an injury like this most of the reason they can't return is because they don't have the proper equipment to be able to return to full-time work or they don't have the proper support or the types of resources that they need

and it drives me insane because it's like wow so you're saying if I had set you up properly and given you all of the rehab that you can't afford right now and the proper chair and everything else you could do a job that makes sense for you? Yes. The answer is yes. Absolutely. Yes. 100%. Because even to this day, we are still having to prove what our needs are. You know, I've still got to prove that I need the NDIS funding packages that I require, which mine's on the lower spectrum because I'm independent. I don't need, you know, 24 hours a day worth of support. Even to get a parking permit I've got to prove the extent of my injury or my disability so even though these things exist to support our community it doesn't mean they come easy and that's a bit of bullshit

that's something that really confuses me as well because obviously there are different I guess there are different levels of disability and some of them can be overcome over time right like someone might have an injury that lasts two years and then they come out the other side of it they don't need their income protection anymore because they can return to full-time work at their full capacity and there's no issue moving forward. Obviously, if they don't require the NDIS, well, they shouldn't be being paid by the NDIS. Correct. That makes sense. But with an injury like yours, it's permanent. Like what part of permanent does the NDIS not understand? Like surely there should be some kind of criteria that you go through and you're like, hey, cool,

look at this. We came this far. Can you just tick a box to say I don't need to be reviewed again? Like, I totally understand there are some places that review makes sense. Yeah. But why in your situation are you in the bucket where you need to be reviewed? And what does that process look like for you? Oh, my goodness. It's interesting because I'm on the other side of it, whereas I have the injury, but I also have a not-for-profit organization that services my community. So I have an exercise physiology-based facility that helps people with disabilities physically access exercise and private health care and the amount of

report writing and documentation that we have to put together for our athletes we call them athletes not patients or clients they are athletes big mindset thing just to prove again that exercise is something that improves quality of life the process is just entirely unbearable it is mentally taxing. It's physically taxing. For somebody like myself, I mean, when my body was broken, my voice became a thing. So I just get in there and I just say, this is what I want. This is what I need. But, you know, I'm now looking at starting a family with my partner. So my needs are going to change. I'm not going to be able to do the things that I do now when I'm pregnant or, you know, post-pregnancy. So I'm going to require more things, modifications to my car and things

like that. What are some other hidden costs or things that, you know, people like Bec and I might not have even considered? So again, I'll talk from my own personal perspective. I'll just talk to you about what I require as somebody living with an injury. Now, I've got what's considered an incomplete injury. So if you look at me and then you look at five other quadriplegics, we're all going to look entirely different and our needs are going to be entirely different. So I live independently in a very unaccessible household, which I'm about to move. Ten out of ten. Yeah, yay.

So excited for that. But that in itself has been a tiring process due to accessibility and funds. But I have car modifications. So I drive a normal car. I don't have what a lot of people have. I don't have steering little utensils or whatever you want to call them on the steering wheel. I actually have a left-foot accelerator and that costs money to modify my car. Yeah, because you have to modify it.

Because I have to modify it. Correct. The test that I required to get my license back to be able to drive said car, that costs money. And this was pre-NDIS. I used to have a hoist in the back of my car that would lift my chair in and out of my car. That costs money. I got rid of it because it kept breaking down. And I opened a gym. But again, like when I'm pregnant, I'm not going to be able to be lifting my car because I'll be more focused on lifting my child. And even just like the idea of getting a child in and out of a car. Like that for me, really hard. And I don't even have kids and I'm just puttling nieces and nephews out of car. I can't understand car seats. I get stuck

with them. Like you have to be up and over the top of them. Like that's another level of complicated that I hadn't even considered. Absolutely. But looking at that, looking at starting a family, so I can't just roll into a baby bunting and buy any cot. I'm going to need a modified cot, modified car seats, all the things. I can now say it proudly that I am one of the lucky ones who I don't require access to a lot of the modified things, but I'm just one out of 4.4 million in our country, you know, and there's just not enough funds out there for us. And that's the problem. It blows my mind. Earlier, you mentioned that you'd actually gone over to the US for some rehab because that type of rehab wasn't available in Australia

and I feel like that's a relatively, let's call it like an experimental therapy in comparison. What's the cost of that? Like how much does that cost to go to the US? Because I already know from a base level that the American healthcare system is not very good and is very expensive but then also doing that internationally to me is wild.

So can you tell me a bit more about that experience and what and why and when and how? It's funny because I asked Shazza last night, I was like, mum, I need some digits because I was heavily medicated when all this went on. Like, I don't remember. I just remember attending the fundraisers and that's the thing. Like, we had to fundraise for everything.

So absolutely everything down to the commode chair that mum would throw around the backyard. But I think the first trip, so we went to an exercise, physiology-based recovery centre, but we also needed to have accessible accommodation. So we were raising in excess of like $60,000 for a one-month trip. I think the first time we actually went over to San Diego, we were only meant to be there for two weeks.

But my physical recovery was so great that mum actually rang my stepdad and said, put my car on the market. We need to stay longer. Oh, my God. That is so cool. Yeah, cool. But, I mean, the guilt. I know.

Guilt and the therapy that I've had to pay for since. Sure. But, you know, then when we got back to Australia, The whole reason we went over there is because we just didn't have access to it 14 years ago. Now we have the next step in my facility. I was about to say, is this what really motivated you to open your own facility? Because 100%, which again, not for profit, had to fundraise from the ground up to be

able to have- Because it's called The Next Step, right? So you can follow it on Instagram, obviously. But I remember meeting you and then going and looking at that and being like, I literally have never seen anything like this in Australia. It's wild. I sent it to my mum to be like, look at this. How cool is this?

I still don't know how I did it, but honestly, it was just based off purpose and passion and a need. Like I said, when we first met, everything I've done, I've done because I needed somebody to do these things or to tell me these things 14 years ago. So when we came back from America, we actually went over there on three separate occasions. Each time we came back, we had to keep fundraising to go back. And we were asking our community to fundraise for one person. And every time we'd go over to America, we'd meet more Aussies that were having to do the

same thing, which again, a bit of bullshit. And the last time we went over there, so the third and final time we went over there, I ended up in the hospital over there, incorrectly diagnosed with MS and put on a predesolone drip. So I came back to Australia and my doctor was like, you don't have MS. You've got a spinal cord injury and your body's exhausted. But again, we had travel insurance, but we had to prove that what was happening to my body had happened and it wasn't you know because of my injury which it kind of was but it was just a bizarre experience being I've been in the healthcare system in Bali that's a whole story within itself and then the hospital system in America I can though exclaim that the best thing about being in the hospitals

in America is the paramedics they are so good looking I was about to say you're going to tell I mean, they're real hot, aren't they? Yeah, they're so good looking. All right. Are you saying that Australian paramedics are just not as comparable? Oh, look, there's definitely some hotties out there, but, I mean, and, like, their paramedics are also, like, firemen as well. Oh, okay.

I see where you're going with this. Yeah. I want to set the hospital on fire just so they come. Yeah, all right. Yeah, but not really. But maybe. Yeah. Maybe.

It depends how hot they are. Anyway, cost-pluming. We'll put it out if they're not that hot when they come, right? I feel like people are going to come for me now. No, they're absolutely not. This is just for the money. I feel like there's no such thing as an off-brand comment. I feel like you're allowed.

There's a positive in every negative, and the positive were the paramedics and the firemen. I'm glad we did so much fundraising. Ten out of ten. Got the money's worth. All right. So I reckon let's look at some of the other costs of common diseases in Australia. Yeah, I agree.

So I think when it comes to not being the most common, but one of the more commonly talked about diseases in Australia is breast cancer. So breast cancer is the most common cancer among Australian women. And there is a one in eight chance to develop it by the time you are 85 years old. And 70% of breast cancer is detected in women between the ages of 40 and 69 years. And the average lifetime cost of breast cancer, which I'm going to argue, because I like arguing basically everything, like it's just who I am as a human being, but the average lifetime cost according to the Zurich Cost of Care Report, which means it is actually legitimate, is $36,040, which is a whole bunch of money just to get breast cancer. Obviously, if you are insured, a lot of this is

going to be covered, but having gone through life and known a number of women who have gone through this again it's really from my perspective not about the direct cost like that's how much it's going to cost for your medical treatment to come out the other side and hopefully be told you don't have any breast cancer in your body at all and you are all good to go home that doesn't take into consideration the therapy that doesn't take into consideration the cost of income that you would experience while you know going through treatment the cost to your partner and your carers and the people that surround you. What about the cost to your children? Like, I remember growing up, one of my mom's best friends passed away from breast cancer and she was like one of the best

human beings in the entire world. Like, it always happens to the good ones, right? And she had two young kids and, you know, it was the biggest, let's just call it a shit show in the entire world because she was married and then there were marriage complications, obviously, because not all men are as good as they should be when it comes to things like this. But then it just, it really stretched out and you just go, the cost to her in general wasn't just $36,000. She ended up losing her life from this, which is obviously massive. Two kids lost a parent, but then I guess stretching that out again, like what if she had survived? Two kids have this experience of growing up with a sick mom who wasn't as present and, you know, does absolutely

everything that they possibly can. But it's just these costs can't, from my perspective, be quantified. And I feel like talking about this cost of care document, so helpful. It is literally the first document that we have in Australia that tells us the lifetime costs of diseases and illnesses. But I just really don't think it quantifies it. And when you start putting things down on a white paper, you're like, yeah, like that's what we could measure. At the end of the day, that's what we could measure. Melanoma is something that as a community, we talk about a lot and Australia has the second highest prevalence of melanoma in the entire world. The average lifetime cost for cancer sufferers aged over 15 years can range from $20,360 for having melanoma,

but as we all know, it's a lot more than that. It costs so much money to have body mapping done and a mole check. Right. And that's just not even having it. That's just checking if you might be at risk. And like, I've just made an appointment to go and have mole mapping done and to have things checked and it's going to cost me about $500. Oh my gosh, yes. I got one done a couple of years ago and I think it was like $560. So how do we prevent these things if we can't easily access them because of funds? Exactly. It blows my mind, right? And then mental health is something that is so important to us, but also is massive in our community. Almost half of the total population, so 45.5% of people experience a mental health condition at some point in their

lifetime. Mental health conditions can include affective disorders, so things like depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, like panic attacks and stress disorders, and substance abuse disorders, so alcohol and drug dependencies. The cost for depression on average is $17,190 per individual. Whoa. Just doesn't seem high enough. And some people have one or two of these things. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like it's not something that just exists in isolation most of the time. Individuals will spend an average estimated cost of $13,050 per year out of pocket for mental health conditions with medications accounting for one third of that cost. I feel like I spend more than that. I absolutely spend more than that.

Just on my mental health, like I definitely spend more than that. Like I've calculated it. I take an anti-anxiety and a depression medication and they equate to maybe like, I think 52 or so depending on the chemist I go to dollars a month and that's fine I feel like I can deal with that cost but that's a lot of money but then on top of that I take a whole heap of natural supplements to try and like you know boost my mood in general because I just don't like the idea of being medicated I then also am diagnosed with ADHD so I have yeah it's probably why we get on I know it's like we met and our brains like quarter each other it's like oh my god you go a million miles an hour too do you want to get coffee cool cool cool next minute we're setting

like double chin selfies to each other I'm like look at my tan under my neck it's so nice you just get me sorry but I feel like that the medication is actually not that expensive I think the medication in comparison to the yeah I was about to say the medication real cheap it's about I think it's like 17 a month or something real good money win but also for me to get that medication. I have to go to a GP. I have to have a mental health care plan. I then get referred through to a psychiatrist because a psychologist is not good enough. They can't prescribe medication. So you need to see a psychiatrist. I'm very fortunate that I got diagnosed at about the age, I think I was like 17 or 18 when I got diagnosed. So it was before the rise of people really

understanding it as much or there wasn't as much prevalence of it. So getting into a psychiatrist wasn't as much of an issue as it is today for most people. But my psychiatrist appointments are probably $450 per appointment. And a lot of that is out of pocket. So I think I'm like maybe $280 out of pocket for every appointment that I go to. Prior to that, because I was young and, you know, it took a really long time to diagnose me. They could not work out what was wrong with me because I was a female. So obviously females historically, they don't get it. So I was seeing a pediatric neurologist before that, which was, I think it was like $550 a session. And my parents were paying for that. All of that is wild. And that's

just to be diagnosed. And guess what? I don't even like taking the medication. So I take a whole heap of supplements to make sure that I can be the best version of me. And those supplements are so wildly expensive. Like, and obviously they're experimental and they're not going to work for everybody. And I'll talk about it on my Instagram at some point because, you know, I'm taking a whole heap of stuff that I genuinely believe works, but I'm probably spending, and I'm very privileged to be able to do this, $350 or $400 a month on supplements. Easy. Wow.

Yeah. Easily. Easily. And that's after researching, you know, what actually works, what helps. Like, so I'm on like a supplement called Tyrosine. I'm on, you know, I take Lion's Mane, which is- I was going to say, have you got your Lion's Mane in your charger in there? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of course I do, babe. But- I just prescribed it to my partner this morning. can prescribe for that. It's a natural supplement. It's a natural supplement. It's a mushroom. It's got none of the illicit stuff in it. Not a magic one, though. I do say it is magic. It is magic for us. But I think it's really important to talk about these things because they cost money. Right. And it's so expensive. And that's just my very privileged experience of the healthcare system and being able to afford it. Like if you are in a lower income household

and you are diagnosed with ADHD, you might go, okay, cool. Well, the medication's not that expensive, but goddamn, the process to get there is insane and prohibitive and expensive and time consuming. And it's just, to me, it's absolutely wild. Well, that's why a lot of people put it in the too hard basket. That's why a lot of people are walking, rolling, running around undiagnosed and just not having that easy access to the things they require for their quality of life. Exactly. Which leads into my next stat that says fewer than two in five, so 35% of people with anxiety or depression seek treatment. And I would say that that really leans into accessibility. And while it's quote accessible, it's accessible if you have the money to access it, right? Access,

access, whatever. And then individuals with mental health conditions lost an average of 38 working days per year. That's a lot of days given most employment contracts in Australia. If you have a 38-hour working week and you're a full-time employee, you get 10. So you're usually in a situation where you're probably taking 28 days of unpaid leave because your employer is not going to just fund your health condition. And God forbid, that's not their responsibility. But that's 28 days. Extrapolate that out. That's more than a month of unpaid leave you have to take because of mental health. And I feel like we need to, I always like to contextualize things because just saying 38 working days and moving on just doesn't hit the nail on the head, right?

Like 38 working days, you don't even do that amount of days in a month. Like that's more than a month. It's closer to two months worth of work that you're missing out on each and every single year because of mental health and not being able to access the right resources. and like we know as people sitting at this table who all have talked about their mental health openly and honestly we know that that costs money and we also know that with access to the right resources we can be okay but not everyone has that privilege no all that knowledge as well because i mean a lot of these things including disability still remain quite invisible so you know i know you've heard me say before victoria but you just don't know what you don't

know. And that's why these kind of communities like Shaves on the Money exist to provide the education that we need to have. If we can't have financial access, at least we have access to the knowledge. A hundred percent. And the lion's mane. And the lion's mane. A hundred percent. Do you know what? I'm going to do a whole video. We should get a sponsor. If someone could sponsor me, we're going to talk offline about this, honestly, because I have theories about the different types of lion's mane that you can buy and whether some are good and some are bad. Like I have a lot of opinions about this. And generally the ones that are the most expensive,

they're the good ones, unfortunately. Unfortunately, right. I think my last bottle of Lion's Mane cost like $160. Oh, my gosh. Straight from Byron Bay. It was. Yeah, we were on the same one. All right, let's go to a really quick break.

Rhiannon and I are going to talk about Lion's Mane. And when we come back, we are going to talk about the impact of insurance on your attitude, your quality of life, and how to move on from experiencing an injury or an illness. Don't go anywhere, guys. Welcome back. We are talking about the cost of care on She's On The Money today and we have a motivational speaker, wellness advocate and model Rhiannon Tracy with us who has navigated life after a spinal injury made her a quadriplegic. All right, Rhiannon, this is the sexy part of

the episode. It's where we get to talk about insurance. I want to know from your perspective, How has your experience impacted your attitudes towards insurance? Oh, do you know what? You're like, I can't even be bothered. Don't even think about it. YOLO. I don't get off on insurance like you do. But insurance is the reason why I'm here telling my story, isn't it?

Because without insurance, I would not be alive. I didn't have a mum who told me that you had to descale a kettle, but I definitely had my mother telling me to. Do you have to descale a kettle? Oh, my God, Victoria, catch up. What's that even mean? you put the lemon and the bicarb and the vinegar in your kettle to descale your kettle oh no i haven't done that oh my gosh okay well calcium build-up our producer just said what

calcium build-up is if i'm meant to know that that's a thing i'm gonna buy another kettle don't worry i don't need you back to insurance because it's sexy it is sexy i had a mom who instilled insurances i had insurance for i mean we hate the words but credit card i had a credit card. I had income protection, credit card protection, travel insurance, health insurance. My dog has pet insurance. I have all the insurances. But that is because, yes, I had a parent. That's real hot. Keep talking to me. I'm speaking her language. I had a mum who instilled that. Yes. But because of the fact that I know what life would have been like post having my injury and the effect that it would have had on my family, if I didn't have those things,

I now know how important it is. So again, this is something that it shouldn't be, you know, you don't know what you don't know. Let's all know this. Insurance is pivotal. Yeah. When you say you had all the insurances, did you go and see a financial advisor or were these just like incidental insurances that you collected because you got a credit card and it kind of came with bonus insurance? Like you mentioned one of my favorite types of insurance, which is income protection. How did that benefit you? Income protection benefited me because it actually paid the gap between my disability support pension and my wage.

For how long? That's really good. Until I was able to work again. Oh, very cool. Yeah, that's awesome. Do you know how often it is that I talk to somebody who has experienced an injury and they're like, oh, yeah, it was the worst. I didn't have proper income protection.

But in saying that, bearing in mind that if I continued to work every year, I may or may not have been entitled to a pay rise. My income protection remains the same no matter how old I was, hence why she now works. But, you know, it was there to provide me with the means to an end. I love that. I couldn't love that more when it comes to income protection, though. I think a lot of people go, oh, my gosh, that's like a free ride, right? You get your income for the rest of your life.

You're right. It doesn't increase. It doesn't go up in line with CPI. And it's actually, in Australia, it could be up to 80%, but more commonly, it's only 75% of your regular income, if you could prove it. So your actual taxable income each and every single year. On top of that, that income protection is taxed. It's not an insurance payout that you don't have to pay tax on because it's actually seen as an income. And a couple of weeks ago, I think last week, actually, Bec, you and I talked about

tax and how it works. You literally pay tax on your income protection. So it's not nearly, and I'm sure you can probably attest to this. It's not nearly as sexy as you think it is, but it is literally a means to an end to mean that you maybe don't have to sell as many things or you don't have to move back in with your parents should the worst happen. What other insurances kind of propped you up during that time? Or did the fact that your injury happened overseas impact the fact that you could claim on any of them? No. So sexy. Wow. She was nicely insured. I was nicely insured. I mean, the travel insurance paid for the two and a half weeks that I was in the hospital in Bali. And let me tell you, the medical team in Bali absolutely milked

that because I should have been brought home much sooner than I was. But also by the time I was brought home, I was brought home on an emergency air ambulance. So that was hundreds of thousands of dollars so I mean yes it did have a great impact in that but then moving forward I did have private health insurance so I mean that put me in a private room as opposed to being in a communal room but I had total permanent disability as well which was a I mean we've gone through some of the figures associated with having this injury so that payout within itself paid for the incidentals that I needed in life, like the catheters and, you know, those little bits and pieces that people just aren't aware of. Exactly. And I guess until having a deep

conversation with someone who's experienced this, you don't know the semantics around their situation. Because as you said before, we could talk to five or even 10 quadriplegics and their circumstances are different. And I think as somebody who's never experienced this and, you know, let's pretend I've never even met anybody who's a quadriplegic before, you might just assume that's a blanket term that means that if you have quadriplegia, you're exactly the same as everybody else in that circumstance. And it just couldn't be more wrong. And I think it's also just so interesting you going, all right, well, it cost me $1.65 to pee. Like to me, that's really messed up that that's the case. But it's also so

insightful to go, okay, this is why we need better funding because that stuff adds up $86,000 a year to do what I take for granted. Like that is, from my perspective, wildly unfair because that's actually even higher than the median income here in Australia. The median person here in Australia earns $65,000 a year and just for you to do away and go to the bathroom in a very normal way for you is costing you way more than that. Well, I'm open and honest in saying that my TPD payout was 100 grand and 86,000 was Continence products. Well, also, we already discussed earlier in the first half of the episode that the average cost of quadriplegia here in Australia is $11 million. So that's a drop in the ocean. Like from my perspective, that's not nearly enough.

And often when we talk about it as somebody who literally would write insurance policies, right? Like my job as a financial advisor was to make sure that you had a wealth creation strategy and that we could, you know, do budget and cash flow and put you in the best position. That your superannuation was looking really sexy, but then also that your insurances were in place because if anything ever happened, I would hate for your, you know, wealth creation strategy to fall off the bandwagon or you not to be able to retire and have the life that you deserve. And the amount of times I would talk to people and they're like, oh yeah, like a TBD paid out of a hundred grand. That's more than enough fee. And often it's not enough. And you would have to

sit down with clients and be like, well, actually, I don't think that's enough because we're not just talking about the cost of, you know, the things that you need, but we're talking about changes to your home, lifestyle changes, loss of income. Yes, we would be able to claim on income protection, but there are lots of top-ups that I don't think you understand. And then even just things like life insurance, you would explain to somebody, okay, cool. You know, I've run the numbers. You're an adult male and you have two young kids and a wife. I think you need a three and a half million dollar life insurance policy. Victoria, I don't need that. Like my house is only worth 800 grand. You'd be like, I don't think you understand how much your

life is worth until your family are going through something really traumatic. It's so bizarre that we cannot put a price on our own lives. Like we can't comprehend how much our life is worth. Exactly those words. It's wild, isn't it? Let's have a look at what we can do to protect ourselves now and different types of insurances. Because V, you know, I love talking about insurances. I, you do not. You're both looking at me like, here comes the boring part. But it's so important to understand this. And there are many, many different types of insurance. But when it comes to the financial advice landscape and personal insurance, there are four different types of personal insurance. So you have income protection, which from my perspective is my favorite type of

insurance that's going to replace your income should something happen to you. We have total impermanent disability, which is essentially if you sustain an injury that totally impermanently disables you, that is a lump sum payment that gets paid out. There is an insurance called trauma insurance. So if you experience a traumatic event, that will pay out. It's actually very different to total impermanent disability. So trauma insurance pays out for things like cancers and melanoma. It pays out for genuine traumatic events, not just total impermanent disability. And then we have life insurance, which I think most people would understand. Obviously, it seems relatively easy to claim on life insurance. All you have to do is die. However, there are also lots of different

circumstances where you might be able to access that early. So as a financial advisor, my most important one would be income protection, because at the end of the day, if you crash your car and you have car insurance, we can replace your car. But if we crash your car and you get injured, your car might be replaceable but your income is not so from my perspective that's the most important type of insurance that we have and so they're the personal types of insurance then there's private health insurance which I think we need to address here because when it comes to disability and experiencing things like this you don't know what you need until you really need it and Rhiannon you're probably a really good advocate for weighing in here

is private health insurance worth it? I'm going to have an internal and external debate about that one. An aneurysm. Yes. And then it's going to cost me more money. Yeah. All right. Sorry. Look, it's funny because there is the Victorian Spinal Service, which is the hospital that services the community of people with spinal cord injuries, which is a public hospital. And I had private health insurance. And every time I go in, even for a day appointment, they ask me, do I want to go in as a private or a public? And I always say, I want to go in as public because I don't want to pay the five. What am I paying? Why am I paying an excess? I only just, I've always had extras because I

love my teeth and I love my, you know, access to physios and things like that. But I've only just put hospital cover back on because I am planning a family. But to completely digress in the way of insurance is something I am going to throw in there, which I'm sure you probably wouldn't have even thought of is so pivotal for the disability community is contents insurance. And that is because if anything happens to your home and your mobility aids or the things that you need to live your life are in your home, they will be covered.

Yeah, that's from wheelchair to shower chair. Yeah, that is a stunning addition, I think, because often people really gloss over contents. And you need to list and you have to list them. And when you are getting your policies, you make sure that they're on there. I mean, yes, our jewellery and everything and our TVs are important, but I know many people who have had instances where, I mean, I used to go to the drive-through coffee shop.

I'd leave my house and I'd actually leave my chair in the driveway of my house and I'd just jump in my house. Oh, no, drive-through coffee shop, that's elite. Yeah, but so I wouldn't have to, like, pull my chair apart. I'd just, like, leave it in there. Go get a coffee. And mum would always say to me, someone's going to pinch your chair one day. And I've actually had a friend whose wheelchair was stolen.

So he went for a ride on his own bike and parked up his chair and his chair was stolen. So, I mean, have contents insurance so that your mobility aids and the things that you require are taken care of as well. I could not agree more with that. On that, absolute scum if you are stealing a wheelchair. Yeah, that is like the worst thing you can steal. Oh, I just, I can't.

adding to that another really important insurance that we touched on at the start of this episode is travel insurance and we went on and on about that I don't think we could be you know more in favor of ensuring that you have travel insurance but I also would take it a step further and I know this you know again really privileged but if you can't afford to pay for travel insurance you probably can't afford to go on that holiday preach full stop end of story if you're not adding that to your travel plans. Like, I'm really sorry, but you shouldn't be going on the holiday in the first place. Like the risk from my perspective is just far too high to the point where you guys won't be surprised about this. I remember talking to a friend about her travel insurance. She was

like, nah, I'm not going to get it. I literally bought it for her. I was like, I'm so sorry. Like I bought you this as a little travel present. Like it's just not happening. It's not me trying to be nice. It's me knowing the industry. And I mean, I have a very, I guess, cynical view of stuff like this because, and I was saying this to you earlier, Rhiannon, I'm in this beautiful position where you get to work with people on wealth creation. You get to work with people to, you know, set up their lives and, you know, put them in a position that they never dreamed they'd ever be in. One of those things is ensuring that they appropriately insure it. And some of the times your clients come back to you with really significant injuries or illnesses, or sometimes

your clients don't come back and their partners do, and it's heartbreaking. It is the worst thing in the world to go through. But one of the things when I was a financial advisor was knowing that I was the right person to help them through that process. I would bend over backwards to make sure that we got that claim in and that claim was paid out ASAP to make sure that that family was in the best possible position. But having exposure to things like that really twists and warps your view of what happens in the world and the amount of people that go, oh, that won't happen to me. I go, it will, it can, it does. Like I have had clients call and say, hey, I'm really sorry. My husband literally got hit by a bus on the way to work. He's going to be okay, but he's in a coma.

I have had, you know, situations like yours, Rhiannon, where a freak accident happened while someone was living their best life and they need to be medevaced back to Australia. And even just knowing how to go through that process, I don't think it's a privilege. I think it's, you know, really sad that I know that process because it means that I know people who have gone through these circumstances, but that is why I am so wildly passionate about insurance. And when I jump up and down and say, it's my favorite, it's not me being fluffy. It's me going, this is the difference between you having to live on minimum wage and never creating the life that you deserve and you being able to create the life you deserve and live with a disability because that's entirely

possible. Right. And Rhiannon, you are literally one of the best advocates of this. Like you just embrace life because it's like get travel insurance or die in my case and that was and that's the fact like yes i won't sugarcoat it had i have not had travel insurance i would not be here and i say that all the time you know my audience when i first started speaking were year 12 students who are about to go on schoolies and i was like it reminds me of that episode of mean girls or the episode the mean girls were going to just like if you have sex you will die you will get pregnant and you will die. You will get pregnant and you will die. You know, I would say, you know, not in those words, but I'd be like, exactly what you said. If you go on holiday and you don't have

travel insurance. You will die. You will die. Or get some kind of weird infection or something's going to happen, you know, like it's not going to be a good outcome either way, you know. And I look forward to the day where we're actually not allowed to travel unless we do have that insurance. I think it should be the rules. Like they're the she's on the money rules. Like you're going against the she's on the money values if you're traveling without travel insurance I just think it's so important and I mean if you don't want to hear that I think you shouldn't be going on a holiday if you can't afford it like I kind of don't care because it's putting you in the best possible position but I guess that leads into we only have time for one

more question and I want to ask you it's more of a personal question Rhiannon and it's around your mindset like the second I met you and I know this sounds really fluffy but we really connected I was like far out this is the type of person that I would want to surround me like your mindset is beautiful you are such a vibe how are you such a vibe after going through 14 years of things that you know a lot of people end up really disheartened with a lot of people end up really salty about a lot of people end up with a really negative mindset about and I mean we've all come across an angry person in a wheelchair right which would be fair enough which is kind of like the weight of the world is literally on your shoulders yeah it's so fair yeah but how are you just like this

shining light of positivity and this type of person that attracts everybody well I think it's because I have perspective I mean for me it was no matter what happened to me there was always somebody out there that was worse off and that was in actual fact like I would have days where mum would push me into the kitchen of the hospital and I would see people with acquired brain injuries and people who are completely non-verbal and I'd be blowing my eyes out because I was 20 years old and my life was so shit at that point. And mum would say to me, at least you can make your own decisions. At least you can communicate your needs. And I always go back to that moment when I'm feeling really shit from a perspective of somebody living with a disability. Again,

still same kind of thing. You know, I have created a life based on, yes, the need, but also the want of life. You know, I was 20 and I think that that's probably a good time. I mean, nobody wants to be injured and I don't want to wish that upon anyone but you know I had a choice I could give up all the goals and ambitions that I had or I could work towards them I also do say that the fact that I didn't have and this is so bizarre to me the fact that I didn't have easy access to the things I needed made me work harder so you know like because I didn't have funding and because I could see the toll that this was taking on my family like I moved out I've always been the girl who I couldn't wait to turn 14 in nine months so I could work at Mackett's.

You know what I mean? I've always been that person who wanted to be able to take care of myself. So when that couldn't happen, I just worked that bit harder and it wasn't easy. But also, you know, I now get to go and, you know, literally roll into a place where I watch people every single day take back control of their lives. And that is my facility. And that gives me a reason to just keep going. and conversations like this, like, you know,

insurance gets you horny, Victoria, but disability allies don't tell too many people. You know, like I love that we can have these conversations because now the conversation's not going to end here. No, and it shouldn't end here. Unfortunately, it is going to end here. Right here. Right now.

It's the end of the episode. And that's a wrap. And that's a wrap. Bye. But also, before we go, actually, another little plug. I have had a few people sliding into my DMs on Instagram asking, Victoria, where can we get our life insurance and our personal insurances sorted? And our recommendation is a company called SkyWealth. And the reason I recommend SkyWealth

is one, it's run by one of my good friends, Phil Thompson, who actually took on a lot of my clients when I left the industry. So, you know, I trust him. It's legit. But he essentially is an insurance specialist. He doesn't do wealth. He doesn't do superannuation. He just does insurance, which means he's going to be a little bit cheaper because financial advice can be prohibitive. But I promise you this is not. And he does like a 15 minute free call at the start. So if you want to contact him, no, I feel like it's just really important. I know that sounds like a shameless plug and he definitely don't pay me to say this. Like he would probably be mortified that I'm talking about him so publicly, but I'll pop all of his information in our show notes. And then also,

if you want to get matched with any other type of financial advice or mortgage broking professional, there's actually a part on our She's On The Money website where you can get matched with a mortgage broker or a financial advisor that the She's On The Money community knows and loves. So you can also go and check that out. But for people who have really resonated with you and your cause and what you do, where can we learn more about you and more about your facility, which is frigging incredible. Shameful plug. It's not shameful. I literally asked for it. I literally asked you to plug yourself here. Okay. Plug away, but we don't have enough time. So I'm just going to make. No, we do. Quick, quick. Rihanna Tracy, my real life, because that's how I roll. My real

life. I love that. That's her Instagram handle. And what is your facility? How can we support that? So my facility is a not-for-profit organisation. It is the only type in Australia. It is amazing. It is called The Next Step Spinal Cord Injury Recovery and Wellness Centre. And that is because it literally is the next step. We don't just treat people with spinal cord injuries. We don't just treat people with disabilities. We now treat anybody who really wants to take the next step in their life adore i love that i love that it was so nice to hear your story and hear your perspective um you've really definitely changed my view on on a lot of things so thank you i love it thank you for joining us it won't be the last time we will see you on friday guys see you guys bye

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