She's On The Money - Under the (F)influence

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

With the rise of the "Finfluencer" and in this age of information overload, it is incredibly overwhelming to know who you can you trust. On this extra special episode Victoria and Jess are joined by Vince Scully from Life Sherpa and Queenie from Invest With Queenie for a fireside conversation all about the current landscape of financial (mis)information, how to avoid getting your information from the wrong source, and OH so much more! Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back to another episode that is actually a little bit rogue. Today, Miss Jessica Ricci and I are sitting here with Vince Scully and Queenie from Invest with Queenie. Hi, guys. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for having me on the pod. Thank you. It's great to be here. Jess and I are so excited to have this chat because after the Finfluencer blow up last year, there is just a lot to decipher. But before we get there, Jess, you said before, guys,

I have a really important question that I want to get to at the start of the episode. What was it? For those of us who are not so much in the financial space, can someone please explain to me what a licensee even is? Everybody who provides financial services needs to have a license, which is issued by the Australian Securities and Investment Commission. ASIC. Which otherwise known as ASIC. Not the shoes. Not to be confused with the shoes. on it. And there are two types of license. There's an Australian financial services license, which deals with all the traditional financial products like super, bank deposits, investments,

insurance. And there's a thing called an Australian credit license, which deals with credit cards, home loans, personal loans. I've got both. And most people who operate in the industry work under somebody else's license. So you can either have a license yourself or you can work as a representative of someone who does have a license. And that's a really nice segue to the fact that what do you do? I run a business called LifeSherpa, which is an online financial advice service focused on the needs of younger Australians. And we have a financial services license and a credit license, both held by a sister company

called MoneySherpa. And we operate our advice business under the LifeSherpa brand, which is a representative of MoneySherpa. And do you license anyone interesting, by any chance? We do. What a coinkydink, you ask, Jessica. Look at that segue. That was a good segue.

I could ride that segue all the way to the restaurant. And, yes, so we, as well as licensing our own business, we license a number of influencers, including Victoria Devine, and she's on the money. And Queenie now. And Queenie at Invest With Queenie. So exciting. Queenie, you're new around here.

I am. I am really happy to be here. It took a while to get it all down, Pat, but we're here now. And I'm just so happy because honestly, Vince, Victoria, it's just so nice to have this community and we all do different things, but I think we all have the same mission, which is so lovely. The thing I want to talk about with you guys today is really about who do we trust in this industry? Who do we talk to? Who do we look at when we want to talk about financial literacy and creating wealth and what investing is and how that works, because there's so many different conflicting opinions that fly around. I mean, the media has made it out to be the scariest thing in

the entire world, but I feel like it's not scary. We just need clarity. And what provides clarity is often licensing. I feel like the media really catastrophizes this and it's like the rise of the influencer and then it's the fall of the influencer. When in reality, I genuinely believe that everyone in this space should be, and usually is, here because they just want people to be financially literate, right? And so I guess that's why we should start the conversation, not around who you should trust, but like, why are we here? What are we passionate about? Queenie, how did you get into this finance space? Oh, you said it so well. I love it. I love this. Thank you so much for having me. How did I get involved? So it was lockdown, and I think we can all remember those

times I was working from home I was working for a fintech startup decided this new job and we started working from home and I was really really scared because I felt in the company it's a startup we were spending more money than we were making as startups do and we kind of knew there could be some layoffs and I just thought oh my gosh it's gonna be me it's gonna be me last in first hand yeah exactly I was like oh god that's what they say right so that makes you really scared I was so scared. And then we did this meeting. And in the meeting, we found out that 20% of our company got let go. But I wasn't one of them. I kind of wish I was because it just felt awful. I would have kept you too. It's all good. It's all good.

I felt awful, you know, like just that feeling with like, pretty much everyone that I met on that day that I was working with. Yeah, we're not there. And I was like, wow. And I felt really lucky because I even though I was able to keep my job during that period I knew that even if I did get let go like I wouldn't have needed that job because I had emergency savings and queen behavior maybe that's why they call you queenie oh thanks and um and I also had you know just purchased the apartment that I was living in and I was like wow how lucky am I to have this financial stability when just a couple of years ago I had nothing and that little Queenie back then would have been feeling so bad about herself you know if this happened and if she lost her job so I just wanted

to create videos to little Queenie back then or anyone that's going through a rough time just to give people hope and say even if you're in a bad situation now it's not forever and you can get through it. Yeah oh my gosh that is literally so wholesome but what was your pivot point into you know, you said you bought your first apartment, you said that, you know, you were financially secure. Most of my community would be listening to this going, what do you mean? How did you get into that? What was that change for you from, you know, not having what you said, not having anything to, you know, having an apartment, having emergency savings, being in a financially secure position? I think the tipping point was reading The Barefoot Investor. And I think a lot

people such a good start point such a good starting point and it kind of it opened my eyes to the possibility of having stability and not being at a job and real thinking that you need that job and you know just kind of like living to survive you could actually live and thrive with money and it was a good mindset then I started on my snowball of personal finance yeah literally snowballs right exactly there are so many and I was just consuming all the content and little by a little, the savings started to grow, you know, Festool's $5 and then eventually $1,000, $5,000 started investing. And I was like, oh my gosh, I've never had this much money in my life. Like it's amazing. And yeah, I really think that it starts small, but it can, it can build up.

You guys are so transparent on your platform. So you and your fiance create a lot of content together. And I've seen a lot of your videos where you're like, this is how much we earn. this is how we spend it. This is where we generate our revenue. How did you become comfortable to share such intimate information? It's a bit awkward at the beginning because I'm scared people will judge and, you know, people don't really like talking about money. But I think slowly I have started to, I want to talk about it more because I think that genuinely pay transparency, talking about how much people get paid, that's how it's just going to be more fair for everyone and I'm prepared to be that person to maybe, you know.

Take one for the team. Exactly, yeah, because if you're not talking about your pay or if people don't know how much anyone's getting paid, I think it's way more likely that some people can be underpaid for what they're doing. So I think it's important. And those who are overpaid get to hide it. Exactly, exactly.

It's a bit sneaky, isn't it? It is very sneaky. Is that what you're up to, Vince, over there in the blue chair? In the blue chair? The Sherpa Teal chair. The Sherpa Teal chair. Sorry, sorry. I think it's interesting because obviously we've got content creators on this side of the table

and then we've got Vince who, Big Dog Vince is our licensee. We do content too. No, you do content too, but you're like the Big Dog licensee. I was about to say, what's your experience in content creation? Because you're the legit one in the room at the moment. You mean just because I've got the certificate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're currently really legit. Legit. I mean, that's really interesting. We have, as a country, the benefit of having some laws that protect people from rogue content. Which is amazing. Yeah. I mean, you and I have been to conferences in the US, which is a bit of a wild west when it comes to content. Anyone who says, I paid off $50,000 and consumed it, therefore I'm a financial expert. Actually, that was wild. We can talk about that

in a hot second. We can. Lots of hot seconds here. And so we have regulations that seek to protect us as consumers from rogue content. And just today, there was a influencer or content creator, whatever you want to call them, got sent to jail for bad behaviour. First one in Australia. Yeah. So that's all good, and it should help people make an assessment of the quality of the content that they're seeing and whether they should pay attention to it. But, of course, I think we can differentiate between entertainment, which should be fun, and content that we're going to treat as advice.

I mean, you know, Dave Ramsey, I could listen to him all day as entertainment, but I'd never take financial advice from him. Yeah. And he's the US's most highly paid radio personality. So it's really about how do we know what content is good and what's entertainment? Yeah. And we should be able to differentiate between the two.

Yeah, and I think everyone's heart is in the right place, right? Like if you pay off $50,000 worth of personal debt to your example and then you want to empower other people to do it, like, that's beautiful. That's so nice. I want you to do that. But just because a certain circumstance worked for you doesn't mean it's going to work for someone else. And that's where I think we end up running into trouble. Jess, you're hanging out here. You're not a finance content creator, but you happen to work for a finance podcast. And you're also a content creator in your own right. You have your own platform, your own Instagram, your own YouTube channel,

where you talk about like fashion and beauty and you've like dabbled in savings, but it's not really I would say the pillar of the content that you create yeah how do you feel when it comes to money versus content creation and where that line exists for someone who's maybe not in the same sphere as the other three of us I think that for me as someone who before I worked for shares in the money I was consuming money content that's how I I was listening to shares on the money that's how I got out of debt so I was consuming a lot of content from a lot of people at the time I think the line for me is that there's a big difference between saying to someone here's some tips on how you can be better with your money here's how you can save money at the

grocery store here's how i find the best deals online versus when we're talking about investing when we're talking about insurances when we're talking about superannuation those things if you consume the wrong advice and you take it to heart and you implicate it has the potential to derail your financial future if you take advice that is really poor or even just partially poor or if you don't understand what you're doing you know I think I saw a lot of people at one point talking about self-managed super funds and how you know at one point Vince loves self-managed super funds I used to make a very good living out of them but I've just shut mine down but people talking about how oh I have you know Hermes bags in my self-managed super fund or you know I put my

house in my and it sounds great in theory I'd love an Hermes but I could pay for that fantastic however if you're making those choices and an uneducated person is making those choices and they do it incorrectly you could end up in a position where you have no money to retire on and that is a huge difference between point a and point b which I think really separates that kind of quote unquote advice from you know the things that once in a while myself or other people have dabbled in being like oh here's how to get a good bargain at a sale I think that's the the real line in the sand for me and last year we saw a lot of uproar and the three of us included and I think maybe Queenie this was the push for you when ASIC which is the Australian Securities and Investments

Commission that's the one thank you not to be confused with the shoes of the same name oh I you know what I own a pair of ASICs and I love them but they came out with some clarifications around existing laws. And the reason there was so much uproar in the industry was because those laws existed before social media existed in the way that it does and before people were making a living off social. And so it really, again, kind of highlighted that line in the sand between people who were licensed and were qualified, so to speak, to talk about those kinds of products and people who have maybe taught themselves or figured it out on their own, which is fantastic, but they're not necessarily educated more broadly and potentially were

putting people in a harmful position. I feel like with the rise of social media, like if we go back 20 years, getting information and getting advice from people who were not educated in the space wasn't easy to do. Like finding people on social media obviously becomes this transactional and I would argue pseudo relationship where I feel like I know Queenie, like we've met before in person a number of times, but I feel like I deeply know Queenie because I absorb all of her content. I think I know her, but that's only the content that she puts online. So I don't actually have a clue what Queenie is like behind the scenes, right? And I think that that's where we're running into trouble because Queenie is so nice. She's the

best person. Have you seen her tips? Oh my gosh, I keep up with all of them. So all of a sudden, I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole where I've trusted everything you've ever said to me. So if you came to me with a cryptocurrency investment scheme, I'd be like, well, Queenie's doing it and Queenie's really- Which she would never, by the way. You would never, but like, that's the power that people in these positions hold. And as we've seen, abuse. And that's the difference between, you know, pre-social media when you saw, you read Paul

Clitheroe or Peter Thornhill in the paper on the, in the Sunday paper, and you didn't have that apparent insight into who they are whereas if you see someone on tiktok or instagram or youtube it feels much more intimate so it's so much easier to build this sense of trust which can get abused certainly we've seen that in the us with all those crypto things you know when ftx fell over all the big names were implemented from graham stephen down not taylor swift she was the queen was smart yeah she was um and so that how do you make sure that that trust doesn't get abused and broken and that's what those regulations were trying to manage and arguably they did it very poorly because they were written by people who seemingly don't really

understand how the space works but it potentially is leading to more regulation which is a positive thing if it doesn't lock people out it's such a hard line isn't it it's a hard line to I guess toe because as somebody who at the time that that uproar was happening I was a licensed personal financial advisor and I looked at it and said great all these influencers that I have been looking at for so long are now going to be held to exactly the same standards that I'm being held to when it comes to content creation and from my perspective I was like that makes sense because that's putting our community in the best possible position to not be abused. But I think it was the first time influencers or people who create finance content had really considered the impact

of what they were doing because the impacts of, you know, giving bad financial advice and, you know, as someone who was licensed, if I breached my license, it's five years in jail and a million dollar fine. It's not little. It's a very, very big thing that if you're a financial advisor, you take really seriously. You don't study for as long as you study and go through all of the exams and go through all the headaches so that you can write SOAs because you love them. You do it because you want people to be in the best possible position. So you do want to uphold the ethics of that education platform, right? But I don't think that going back to that person you made an example of before who said, I got out of $50,000 worth of debt, you can too. They haven't thought about

those implications that are a part of the code of ethics as a financial advisor, because why would you have thought of that? Who's put the code of ethics in front of you? Who's taught you about all the different strategies that could exist to get out of that $50,000 worth of debt? Have they looked at the bigger picture? Have they taken into consideration all the other options that that person has on the table? So I think it's one of those things where it was such an uproar because people didn't actually realise how significant the ramifications were if you were in breach of a licence because they weren't new rules. They were the rules that I'd been held to for my entire career 22 years exactly how did you feel vince as someone who licenses other people but also

carries a license creates content yourself how did you feel when that was introduced i mentioned i'd been with am i allowed to mention other podcasts you can mention other podcasts the my millennial money oh we talk about them all the time we had i've been working with glenn for a couple of years so he's been a representative of life shopper for a couple of years now it's Yes, Queenie. You've glowed up. Glowed up? Yeah, you've glowed up.

I've had a glow up. Yes. Yes, Queen. And that was partly as a result of an Essex inquiry of it, I think I can say that. Oh, he's talked about that publicly before. That's all good. We worked together to work out how do we actually make this work

in a social context because traditional licence holders just don't necessarily understand the differences between the traditional sitting one-on-one in a room or at best sitting in a seminar room with 30, 40, 50. It's a new platform. This is all new and it's much more dynamic, so you can't run a post by a committee over two weeks. I mean, not only does it lose its timeliness,

but it also loses its spark of originality. Yeah. So if you start designing posts by committee, you're going to lose the essence of what makes VDVD or what makes Queenie Queenie. And so that was an experience that we honed that over those two years. So we'd been doing that before the whole ASIC thing blew up. And that was where people stopped going, yeah, sure, Vince, sure, Vince. Yes, I know I need a license. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

And now ASIC went, well, now everyone believes, well, actually you do. And so some people pulled out completely. I mean, there's a few very high profile anonymous bloggers who stopped blogging and shut down their Facebook groups when this all blew up rather than embrace the discipline of licensing. And others have embraced it. So it's only a growing cohort. But we at Lifeshop are very keen on growing that because we see it as an opportunity to deliver money, skills, education to more people in a much more enjoyable, friendly, relatable way than the traditional

you must do this, you must not drink your latte every day, you must stop eating smashed avocado. Yeah, well, you could afford a house if you stopped doing those things, so maybe you should, you know. Well, if you did both, you could have two houses. Yeah, well, that's where we're falling short, honestly. Queenie, I guess that pivots the conversation back to you because when all of this happened, I guess I was really excited about it because I was a licensed financial advisor and I felt like these changes were the best thing for

the community to put them in the best possible position. And now everyone's going to be held to the same standards I was. So I was very excited. But you were in the position where you had to consider getting a license. And there were a lot of influencers who, as Vince said, left the market. There were a lot of people who I know are still kind of in that limbo stage where they're like, I will, but I won't. What prompted you to get a license? And furthermore, why was it with Vince? Of all people. I say about my own licensee who I know and love. Yeah. Oh, I love it. And great question. I think that, well, for one, I am super passionate about it. And I think it was the first thing that I've actually done in my life where I just felt like it was the right thing.

Because when I started creating content on social media, it wasn't to make a huge amount of money. Although in the back of my mind, I thought that would be pretty cool if I did. But it was really just because I wanted to help people and help people be more hopeful about their finances. So yeah, it just felt like I was actually doing it for the right reasons. So that's why I wanted to continue. Obviously, it was a really scary time. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, what's going to happen? I don't know what's happening. It was terrifying, right? Were you involved in that webinar that Asik ran? That was one of the scariest times. I mean, I thought they were going to come for me after that because I was relatively vocal during that.

Yes, you were a bit vocal. But it was interesting. But I think that put the fear of God into everybody. It did. Which seems like their intention really, didn't it? But at least you didn't turn up with a picture of Warren Buffett behind you. Were you in the room or did you see the recording somebody who was told not to record distributed?

No, no, I was there. But somebody who should have remained nameless turned up with a picture of Warren Buffett on their wall behind their camera. I'm not an influencer. I die I know exactly who we're talking about Vince you license people like Queenie and myself and obviously we are very different in the types of content that we create I mean we exist in the same sphere I think we connect really really well however it's a risk for somebody like you to go do you know what I'm gonna put myself out there

as a licensee, because it is a risk, because essentially when you enable somebody else to operate under your license, you're responsible for us. I am. I'm responsible for every word that you say. Exactly. Does that make you nervous? It does make me very nervous. Yeah, I would be too. I go rogue. I even have to listen to some of it to check it. Exactly. But what does your, I guess, thought process look like when it comes to licensing people like Queenie and I, and what about the people that I know have potentially approached you and you've been like, look, this is the type of content I support and this is the type of content that maybe isn't the right fit for my brand. Yeah. So there's, I mean, if you look at the group so far,

obviously you've got Queenie, She's On The Money, My Millennial Money and Phil Muscatello and Shares For Beginners, very different. I mean, Phil's got very much a older audience. Yeah, absolutely. And probably a wealthier audience. So wide variety of content and audience. And that's really a bad saying. Can we identify a group of people who are conscious of their obligations, are aware of who their audience is and how they can be best looked after, and are broadly aligned in messaging? So we wouldn't license someone like Crypto Spruiker, for example. Of course. And, of course, there are some limits on our license.

So we don't have a license for derivatives. So if you're spruiking, you know, running an options trading podcast, we can't do that. Jess, quick, cancel it. But it's really about having a network of creators who together make up more than we do individually. And so it's a combination of content, collaboration, an aligned message and a sense that the creator has a sense

of their obligations. So we don't really want to be in the business of reviewing every post before it goes out because that doesn't work for anybody. No. We need confidence that the person doing it is aware of what they need to do, which we can obviously help with, and doing some post facto review. But by bringing the onboarding properly and knowing who the right people are, we can manage that risk.

But it's not for everybody. And we do get approached. Well, maybe not every week, but certainly more than once a month. But we really want to try and build up a small network of like-minded, not necessarily precisely alike. Glenn and I argue about car loans all the time. But that we have a same sense of... of realism and broadly values aligned because that's a really interesting thing is uh someone

who's observing external to all of you guys you know not qualified in the way that you are not interested in being qualified in the way you are when those assic things came in you know the people who went okay well if the only way that i can keep doing this is if i get a license i wonder what that experience was like for them finding someone to license them because as you've said you're taking on all of this responsibility if vittoria does something wrong you are culpable on some level for that and that is a lot to take on with the extremely large fines and the jail and all of the other scary things vince will go to jail now not me oh yeah sucks for you vince but you know but all of these people who maybe were creating finance content they're like okay well if the

only way for me to keep going is get licensed like what queenie's done i wonder how many people did approach licensees and how how hard was that process for you cleaning i guess on your invents being the person who's giving a yes or the no what was that like i mean from an industry perspective i don't think many people understand social also and so if you're sitting around the compliance committee at amp or the commonwealth bank this is just not something you want to go anywhere near because it's relatively small compared to the overall business so why am i gonna bet my business on you know something which isn't going to change my revenue if i'm a big player and they just don't understand it and don't really have that time or inclination to

get into it and i've sort of lived and breathed this stuff for eight years at love shepherd and And so you get a feel for why people do what they do and where the boundaries need to lie. And so we just felt that it was an important part of our role at Lifeshop about bringing financial advice to everyone. That one of the ways of doing that was through a process of education through entertainment. Not everyone's going to read a textbook. And it's probably not very helpful either because most of finance is actually about tradeoffs and understanding yourself is far more important than understanding the market. But we did have to build in how do we go from taking a former financial advisor and managing that process? How do we broaden that into dealing with people who haven't had a decade in that environment?

and that was the big challenge. And so Queenie was our guinea pig in that space, so our first non-ex-advisor. And it was quite a lengthy process to go from effectively nothing to get there. And we get people hating on the, we get comments on the website about, you know, how can you possibly, yeah. In fact, we have a complaint right now.

It's about Victoria Devine. No, it's about somebody who's not Victoria Devine. I'm thinking about, well, how are they qualified to do this? I go, well. That makes me really angry because do you know how hard it is to give a licence? If she's got one, I promise there's reason. And you're one of the few people who has committed to that process,

which from what I understand is quite lengthy and I want to hear more about what that was like. So you had to go and do some courses. With no training. Yeah, I had to do some courses. I've done two so far. So general advice and general knowledge, that was one of them, like generic knowledge.

and then the other one was about securities and managed investments so yeah it does take time to do this and I'm looking to get licensed in the other areas too and knock off those other courses like insurance and super because it is so interesting and I really do love it but it was challenging at the beginning because I don't come from this industry and I didn't know the steps involved to get a license but thankfully met Vince and it's so good because I feel like our our visions are aligned and even though we we do different things I feel like our mission and our values are the same and we do want to help people and I think that you know with the way that I create content which is just to educate people and just give like you know daily tips about

little things that they can do to make their life a little bit easier or you're still not going to get me to Costco though. Give it a go. Oh, I'll get on that train. Costco is lit. We're going. Yeah, it's actually so much fun. I'm an Aldi convert, but I haven't quite got to Costco. We love Aldi on this platform. On this platform, we adore Aldi. Well, they're El Toro. Have you tried their wines? Yeah, absolutely. Lemuel Rosé is the best Rosé I've had in my life. Well, the El Toro. Quote me on it. $4.99. Oh, that's a good deal.

Is that the one that won the award? Because they've had a few that have taken out. It's a 90-plus point winner, and it's $4.99 a bottle. Crazy. That's a money win. This is a weeknight drinking red. A weeknight drinking red, just for those of us who consistently drink red on a weeknight. Like me, I will be checking that out.

But it's a long way to Costco from here. Yeah. It's not like an everyday trip. It's like a once-you-run-out-of-toilet-paper trip. Yeah, okay, okay. Right. Let's pivot back to the conversation, I guess, about finance content creation. You don't want to talk about toilet paper anymore? Look, I do, but I got over it during COVID. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's no longer a good investment

because there's heaps of it now. But pivoting back to the conversation, I guess, about finance content creation. And I guess the people listening to our podcast are probably like, oh, this is getting deep. This is getting hard. And we're not usually a fireside chat kind of podcast like Glenn's. But I think it's so interesting to kind of like look under the hood and have these conversations about well what do people who create finance content actually have to go through to create that content make sure that the community is always in the best possible position and I think that's really pervy like I would be really interested in this type of chat about any other industry but additionally there's this layer of like obviously you've had to work your butt off

to do what you're doing today and you've really committed to it which is really commendable but there's this juxtaposition of if you get licensed, it's really expensive. So it's a cost that that creator has to wear and has to commit to. And obviously that cost, it could range from anywhere, what, like $10,000 up to $100,000 plus. When I was a fully licensed personal financial advisor, I was paying more than $100,000 a year for my license. And then when I had people working for me. It was plus, plus, plus. It depended on your revenue. At one point in my career, I was paying that fee plus 5% of my business revenue. It got ludicrous. And I don't think people understand how much that process costs. For smaller finance content creators, though, that's obscene.

Like if you are a small time finance content creator and you're just doing it for the passion, it's not comprehensible that you would go and pay for a license and a lot of them have either as you said Vince left and decided to pack up shop and not do what they're doing anymore or they're just like you know what I'm just going to keep doing it it's not that bad it's not this it's not that how do we know who to trust and who not to trust and I guess where is the line of content creation because I follow a lot of people in the finance industry who are and aren't licensed and I love watching them all. But how do I know, I guess, as a general consumer where the line is? And maybe if Vince is talking about this, I can trust him on all of these things. But if he

crossed this line, I probably should be a bit wary. Yeah, don't take beauty tips from me. Okay. All right. I was about to ask, but we'll just stick to finance. That's right. And I think you've got to start with, is this entertainment or am I actually trying to learn something here? And if you treat it as pure entertainment and you're not going to reliant on financial aid. Go anywhere you want. Go for the fun. One of my favorite podcasts, American podcast, you know, Joe Salcihai from the Stacking Benjamins. We met him at FinCon. I'm going to be at a conference with him in Bali in September.

You're a fancy boy. We should go to that conference. Excuse me. I have not been invited to that one. Weird. We'll talk about this after. And so his motto is, you're not going to learn anything. If you learn something on my podcast, you waste your time. It's a bit of a joke, a bit of a joke tagline. And he is actually an ex-financial advisor. He knows what he's talking about.

And he does know what he's talking about. But it's such fun. Dave Ramsey, as I've said before, he just sounds great. I could just listen to that voice all day. Would you? It's like nails on a chalkboard. I've currently got Dave Ramsey lovers jumping down my throat because they commented on one of his TikTok videos

and I shouldn't have done that. I should not have done that because they're now coming for me. But if you're actually looking for advice, like you want to apply this to your life, how do I know that this person is A, qualified, and B, doesn't have an ulterior motive? So looking at how they make money is a really good start. So if your creator's making their money by links to buy what they're wearing, that's pretty cool. But if they're making money by putting you into some crypto scheme, which we saw fall apart in the US recently, that's a red flag. So looking at what their model is, if it's just a platform to host AdSense ads or YouTube ads, that's probably pretty harmless. And all they're interested in really then is eyeballs.

But if they're taking money from investment and other products based on how much of it you buy, that should be not necessarily a dead stop, but it should raise questions in your mind and go, well, is what I'm hearing genuinely in my interests and does it actually apply to me? and the challenge with financial content is how do I make it short, snappy, click-worthy and yet get across the nuance in that the right answer for you is not the right answer for you, even though mathematically that statement could be true. Everyone agrees that you've got to save some of your lifetime income to pay for retirement. How much? Well, many commentators will go, 15% is the answer. But is that the right answer for you? Do you want to live better in retirement than you want to live during your life? That's a personal trade-off. And I don't think anyone can say, for everyone, the answer is 15%. But how do I get that nuance into 30 seconds?

That's really hard. So that's, I think, the challenge we all face as content creators is making it simple, memorable, actionable, insightful, and also nuanced. If the person doesn't have the skills to understand those nuances, it's really hard to deliver all of that. I agree. And I find it, I guess, looping back to the conversation we were having at the start, we mentioned that last year we went to FinCon, which is, I guess, the world's biggest finance content creators. We're money and media meet. That is correct. But we went to this conference last year. It was my first year. It was not your first rodeo. And my mind was blown. I already knew that there were very large differences between the way we could create content in Australia

versus the way that we could create content in America, right? And in America, the responsibility of finding the right advice is actually on the consumer. Whereas in Australia, the responsibility is on the person creating that content to look after their community and look after their consumer. And I found it so interesting just the way that played out because I've known that, I've known that my entire career, but seeing that play out on stage, seeing that play out when people are having conversations about the podcast content they write, talking to them about how they make revenue, it was mind blowing. But how do we know that content creators have the consumer in mind when we are, you know, consuming their content? Because you don't know what you don't know. Like

we talk to the She's On The Money community all the time. Like you come to me because I know what I'm talking about. Like when it comes to finance, I'm wildly passionate about it, but I'm also legitimate in the space. Like I've worked in it for years. Like I owned my own practice. I had financial advice clients. So I'm not fluffing around when I'm saying, oh, this is how you budget. I've budgeted for hundreds of people. So I think it's, how do we know that the consumer is being taken into consideration, licensed or not, or maybe if it's a bit more driven by the bottom line? Yeah, that's a real challenge. And I think we see this a lot in the, what I call hustle porn, you know, where a lot of- Hustle culture. Hustle culture. Hustle culture.

that so much of finance content is all about. Waking up at 5 a.m. and having your bullet coffee. And having your side hustle. Jess does it all the time. Much of which is really driven by, well, if I can make an affiliate link for getting you to sign up for Uber, of course I'm going to suggest that you should do it. So following the money is really important because everyone's got

to make a living and so transparency is important. I don't think anyone expects that the content is entirely free. You're paying with something, right? You're paying with something. Like you're paying with something, whether you're handing over money or you're handing over your view or you're handing over your email address, there's usually some type of value exchange for content creators because honestly, to create She's On The Money, adored it, was a passion project, didn't exist so that I could create income.

but to make it sustainable, I had to find a way to create income because Jess doesn't work for free. And it's expensive to do. No, you do not. She knows her worth. By the time you buy equipment, you pay for an editor, there's a whole bunch of costs involved in producing it. So nobody expects it to be free, but the question is identifying

what the payment you're making is. Is it your view so that there's ads rolled before it or during it? is it because when you click on this link, they get a share of it? Your beauty products in particular and fashion are really good for that because of really healthy affiliate margins in lots of videos where you go, click on this link to buy what I'm wearing in this video. Really profitable. Can't quite do that in finance.

And it's not as transparent in finance, right? And this is something that has really, I guess, grinded my gears historically because we do in the She's On The Money community, you guys know that there are always discount codes or sign-up codes, but in our community, those sign-up codes aren't linked to us making a pay-per-click. Like those sign-up codes, let's use our Sharesies code, for example, or the Up code that I think still exists, Jess. So both of those are very popular in our community. Both of those give the consumer a nominal money amount that, you know, for Sharesies, if you use the code SOTM,

you get 10 bucks in your account when you sign up. For a lot of finance content creators, historically because, you know, when there was the Finfluencer uproar, I feel like that came to a grinding halt because it wasn't transparent. For a lot of finance content creators, that link actually pays them as well. It has never paid She's On The Money and it will never pay She's On The Money. All we do is accept straight advertising revenue. Like if you would like to sponsor our podcast, it's X amount, full stop, end of story. If you make a million dollars from clicks, which imagine if my clients were making a million dollars from clicks, I'd be charging a whole lot more, I promise, but they could make a million dollars or they could make $4, but I'm not

promising conversion. Whereas if I am motivated by the fact that I'll earn an additional $5 for every single click that happens, that's where from my perspective, especially around financial services products, things get murky. Things become maybe a little bit more promoted than they should be and not well balanced in conversations because there's that motivator to go, one of these products is paying me consistently. One is not. They might be absolutely equal, but I'm going to make it look like one's better than the other. So you always go with the one that pays me. And that's where my gears get a little bit grindy because I just don't think that's putting your consumer in the best possible position. And that's another advantage of dealing with someone who is

licensed because the law prohibits us taking what's called conflicted remuneration. So we're getting money that would influence the content then that's prohibited whereas if you're not licensed you can take as much money as you want for providing a slanted view and licensed or not you should be able to ask any in my opinion any creator who's promoting pretty much anything and say how are you making your money yeah are you transparent for this because i mean theoretically it should be disclosed in line with the law however it is again a new media and it is a little bit of grey and you know some things are enforced and some things are not but I think if you're ever unsure about how someone is making money you should be able to ask them and they

if they respect you and respect their community and respect their career in that space they should tell you very clearly. Exactly and if they're licensed like Queenie or I you can head to our websites and have a look at our financial services guide it will tell you how we get paid and often what we get paid. So I find it really transparent. I really like that because I think that you guys then know that I'm putting you in the best possible position where if I'm talking about a product, it doesn't mean I'm not going to talk about another, but I can feel like the conversation is a little bit more balanced. Now, I'm really aware that we've been going on and on and I have been loving this conversation, but I feel like we should wrap it up relatively soon.

So I think to wrap it up really nicely, how about we give our listeners a few tips and tricks of things that we could look out for that might be red flags in the industry or might be things that you go, oh, maybe don't do that. Because recently, Jess and I have been dealing with an influx of people asking questions about, oh my gosh, one of them recently was, I got called by a financial services company and they said they can fix my super. They're going to just charge it out of super. No FSG was sent. No advisor profile was sent. No product disclosure statement was sent, but it'll just cost you $4,000 out of your superannuation. Lots of red flags there.

Is that a red flag there, Miss? Lots of red flags there. I can show you after exactly what it is because you best believe I had them email it to me so I could do a little cheeky deep dive. I mean, there are ways that can be structured legally, but it's certainly not in anyone's interest. No. So, yeah, that's a big red flag.

A suggestion that one solution is the answer for everybody is another big red flag. This platform is the best. And, I mean, some of those things, you know, which share broker I use, it's sort of a decision at the margins. The bigger difference is, well, how much do you save? So rather than trying to save a dollar on your brokerage, if you maybe save $10 more every week, you'll be way better off. So being able to understand what the decisions that matter are and where you really should be taking professional advice. And if some is good, more isn't always better.

That is true. That is true. So Queenie, what would you say is a red flag to look out for when it comes to absorbing finance content? I think that when you're absorbing any kind of content, especially finance content, you kind of do need to take it with a grain of salt because just because one person has taken this path doesn't mean it's right for you, like Vince has said. And yeah, I just think it's really important to just try and look at what's right for your

personal situation. and if you need help with that always you know their financial advisors lovely vince has a great business and it's also very affordable if you are looking for that kind of advice so that's a good place that you can you know have a look at lots of resources hashtag not spawn it's not i was about to like the next question will be like we've dropped it a few times what the heck is money but i'm not asking you that yet because i want to know what jess's red flag is jess i feel like you see a lot of red flags because you manage my inbox just a few in there i feel like anything that is promising you the world like the saying if it seems too good to be true it probably is

like i know that we've all grown up with our parents saying that to us but i feel like particularly in the finance space it really rings true like if someone is saying to you i can fix your super and make you a millionaire and all it's going to cost you is four thousand dollars but i'm not going to send you a document like red flag red flag red flag If someone on Twitter is saying, oh, my God, everybody, you want to get on this stock, it's incredible. To the moon. Yeah, to the moon.

Like, get on it. It's going to go quick. Like, you've got to get in now. And I think that's probably my other – sorry, I'm going to share two red flags. I was going to do that too. Anyone who puts a pressure or a sense of urgency on you. Okay, that was my second red flag, but that's fine. We can share it.

I think, you know, anyone who's trying to get you to make a quick choice, I would be questioning that because anything, particularly finance, should be a considered choice from you as a consumer. I think it has the power to make such a big impact on your life that you should be weighing your pros and your cons. You should be doing your own research. Even anything that we talk about, we always say, make sure it's the right fit for you. Like in my opinion, all we or Queenie or Vince or any other creator can do is showcase something to you and saying here are the pros here are the cons or here are the the things that you might want to consider and then you as an individual should be going away and then going do these pros and cons

and things that i'm considering suit my specific needs because there are billions of people on this planet and we all have different needs and we all have different things and a platform that's perfect for me might suck for vd because she's way more advanced than me but it might be true you know but there are all these different things to consider there's never going to be one thing and we would never say that there's one thing that is perfect for everybody and I think if someone's trying to convince you that that's the case or if they're trying to get you to make a decision really quickly because the opportunity is just going to be gone that is a red flag and one that I would be going I just need a minute because they're trying to psych you out and put

pressure on you so that you sign up or commit to something that you then can't take back yeah no scary. It's scary, but it's also just, it's not true. So I guess that's what I used to say to clients. Like there's absolutely no pressure here. Any good financial services person would never want you to feel pressured. They actually want you to feel completely educated and a hundred percent on board with the plan before you sign on the dotted line. And if you are not committed to it, well, we need to have a conversation about why and when and where and Vince, why aren't you feeling confident? Like, what haven't I taught you yet? Because ultimately a good financial services professional is putting you in a better position and they don't mind if it's now or next

week. And it's, you know, I've spoken about inheritance on the podcast and my number one tip for, you know, coming into a really large sum of money is don't do anything because every single person, when you come into a large sum of money has an opinion and your uncle Greg might have worked in car dealerships for his entire life, but that doesn't mean he knows what you should be doing with the money you got from your grandma. So I think it's really important to one, look for professional advice, but two, you're right, Jess, no sense of urgency, but there's always going to be another opportunity. And if there's not, that was not the opportunity for you. I genuinely believe that like what is meant for you is never going to miss you. And what misses you was never

meant for you. But then on the other side of that, I guess my other red flag is really who is creating the content. It doesn't mean it's a red flag. It's just something to take into consideration. Let's use Queenie, for example. She's relatively independent. I don't know how that works when I talk about independent because we're licensed, but we're not using the independent word, but Queenie's not owned by a product. Queenie doesn't work for a bank. Queenie doesn't work for an investing platform. She's just an individual who generates her revenue from working with a variety of different brands and different sponsorship deals on different platforms. And that to me goes, all right, well, she's got lots of balance there. Whereas if that information is

coming from one direction, like Queenie had partnered for an entire product on an entire platform, like her whole YouTube, for example, was partnered with XYZ Bank, that's where I'd go, oh like that information might be really only coming from one direction or that one bank because Queenie's entire platform is owned by that bank or that YouTube it doesn't mean that they don't stand alone in their other circumstances but that YouTube channel that is completely sponsored which it's not it's just an example that to me would be a bit of a red flag to make sure that you're wary of balance when it comes to those conversations because you could be doing a whole series Queenie like 10 whole videos. You go, wow, 10 videos. But if all 10 videos are sponsored by exactly

the same bank, that's where you've kind of got to go, oh, is that like, is it well-rounded information or is it product pushing? Because some, you know, let's say some banks might do a really good educational series and they just want to put some money behind Queenie to get it done. Fantastic. Didn't you get your Dolomites money box? Yeah, but do you know Dolomites had absolutely no impact on the financial literacies of Australian children? Wild. We're not surprised though. So I think it's interesting to look at the way content is created because it could then be underlying sponsorship to get more signups, right? So I think it's just about understanding where it's coming from and what's going on. And I guess that's why She's On The Money will never have

a one She's On The Money sponsor. It's not the She's On The Money partner. We might have a partner for an event or we might have a partner for a podcast or a partner for this, but we'd never take on someone who goes, you know what, we want to buy out everything on She's On The Money. because I just don't think that's in the best interest of our community, no matter how much money was behind it. You're not going to have the crypto season? No, I'm not. Brought to you by FTX?

I'm not because, you know what, I don't want to end up in jail because I can't wear my shoes there. Crazy. Before we head off, shall we give Vince a little minute because obviously you're licensing these two fabulous people. Can you tell people a little bit about you and Money Sherpa? Money Sherpa, you've dropped it a few times. Why should we trust Vince Scully and Money Sherpa?

Have you seen my hair? He has fabulous hair. If that's not going to sell you, I don't know what it is. Yeah, but it's a very full head of hair. And you have the little quiff going. I love it. Fancy boy hair. All natural.

No product, no colour. The answer to your question is I run LifeShopper, which is Australia's most affordable financial advice service. I had been in financial services for 35 years. What was that? Are we taking advice right now on the She's On The Money podcast from a mediocre middle-aged white man? Is that what we're doing?

No, we're taking advice from a fantastic middle-aged white man. I'm not sure 60 qualifies as being middle-aged anymore. Does it middle-aged? Take it, Vince. How many 120-year-olds do you know? Take it and run with it. 120 is the goal. And having done that, I'd spend a lot of time helping a lot

of very wealthy people manage their money and thought, you know, there's got to be a way we can make this available to everybody. and so we created this business to deliver advice for 547 a year that's a money win that's a money which is a money win and we do it all online we use technology to keep the cost down and we focus on the needs of younger people which generally means people who are in the workforce they're going through life's three big changes which i call coupling nesting and parenting so they're getting used to dealing with money as a couple they're dealing with all the costs and budget pressures of buying a home and raising kids and we're here to help very bird-like i like bird-like

yeah well you're about to nest i'd like hopefully listen to the property playbook to hear how that goes is that a plug for me joseph's like i'm on that one more so go over to that one um so you you can find us at liveshopper.com.au well we'll obviously put all of your information in the show notes because I think it's, it's a really good platform. And that honestly was not a very good sell of it because I just feel like it does exactly what it says on the box. Right. And I think that that's what a community like She's On The Money and a community like yours, Queenie, is looking for. We want financial advice, but we also want it to be affordable. And it goes back to that, you know, conversation we were having with one of our members earlier today, literally

about how somebody called her on the phone and said, Hey, we're going to sort out your super. and she was like, oh my gosh, I've been meaning to do that. I've been putting it off. That's so wild. And they were like, don't worry. Like we've got it. You know, how much do you have in super? What's your member number? They just ask these questions that she was so excited to have this conversation because it was something she'd been putting off. And then they said, look, we can do it through your super. Don't worry. It doesn't have to come out of your back pocket now. And she said, oh, that's brilliant. That's so great. And they messaged us before they signed and said, hey, it's just like something's off about this. Like they seem legit. I looked them up. They do

have a license, but the pressure got to her. She said, look, they just really pressuring me to get back this signed document. And I just, you said that I should be worried about that. And I said, yeah, you absolutely should be. And I have a look at it. $4,000 will be taken out of her super annuation to set it up. And it's only super advice. It's not holistic advice. It doesn't take into account any of her other circumstances. It was purely superannuation. When I could go to a platform like LifeSherpa, pay a very nominal fee for basically full service financial advice that is going to put me in the best possible position. And it's not going to put me out. It's actually going to put me ahead. And I think that it's one of those things that having worked

in the industry and knowing what good advice looks like and what not so good advice looks like, you just go, how did you do it, Vince? Like that's wild to think that I could go get my super organized, you know, maybe get my insurances done at the same time, maybe organize my investing plan and have it worked. Exactly. It's a full service offering that, you know, some people don't want a full service offering and that's cool. You can work out what you need. And it's not saying that this is the absolute product you need to talk to Vince or you're going to die, but it's more well if that works for you then that makes sense and it's coming from a place that we trust but it's also coming from a place where you're like I've made a lot of rich people

richer I know how to do that I've done this for years 35 to remind you but it's one of those things that I think a lot of people are just looking for I guess that answer how do I get that advice how do I get connected and what do I do so we'll put all your information in the show notes and make sure that you know if you're interested in hanging out with vince a bit more on the internet you can we've all given ourselves a not so subtle plug but someone's sitting here very humbly that hasn't taken that chance yet queenie where can people find you if they want to keep up with your stuff as well i post content on tiktok instagram youtube you can find me in all the platforms and yeah i'll see you invest with queen obviously put your information in the show

notes as well but queenie's content is so fun like i don't know how you do it and pump out so much that is every day every single day like we cannot keep up with even posting one instagram story a day let alone how much content you create so i am very impressed oh thank you appreciate it the advice shared on she's on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances she's on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of MoneySherpa,

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