She's On The Money - Why Are Women Overworked & Underpaid?

Episode Date: February 21, 2023

Australia's Gender Pay Gap is currently 22.8% and is increasing and we are absolutely outraged! So today we are talk about why women are overworked and underpaid. We look at the math, the stereotypes, the quiet and overt forces in society that contribute to this situation and what we can do about it! Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements. The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, my name is Natasha Nabanunga-Bamblett. I'm a proud Yorta Yorta, Kernai, Wolperi and Awadjeri woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on Awadjeri country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. She's on the money.

She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Bec Syed and with me is Victoria Devine. Hello, Bec. Are you excited for this episode? I'm so excited. We're going to talk about why women are overworked and underpaid. I've always wondered. So it's a little bit of a spicy episode. Bec, did you know that Australia's national

gender pay gap is currently sitting at 22.8%? No. No. Insane, right? Men are twice as likely to be in the top earning bracket and women are 1.5 times more likely to be in the lowest. Wow. In fact, every single industry in Australia has a gender pay gap that favours men, and the gender pay gap increased in eight industries in 2022. Oh my gosh.

Disgusting. That is really wild. So frustrating. So today we're going to be talking about why women are overworked and underpaid. We're going to be looking at the maths, the stereotypes, the quiet and the overt forces in society that contribute to this situation and what we can do about it. Before we go there, though, I think I really want to acknowledge that the Australian Bureau of Statistics, while it is a fantastic data source, one of my favourites, in fact, Bec, you're probably not as keen on them as I am because I'm just a stats nerd. I literally

have a minor in statistics at university, but I really enjoy following the ABS on Instagram. Oh, they have an Instagram? They have an Instagram and their content is elite. Very funny. Funny content? Very funny content. I will show you later. They have a way with their numbers. And if you don't follow the ABS on Instagram, you're honestly missing out. Also the social media manager who runs that, if you want to talk to me, I would let you run She's On The Money. Yeah. Yeah. So slide into my DMs. But the thing I wanted to mention about the Australian Bureau of Statistics, while

they are really good at data and obviously social media, they are not so good at inclusivity. So we only have various stereotyped topics to talk about today because that data doesn't exist for our Indigenous friends. It doesn't exist for our transgender friends. It doesn't exist for anybody in the LGBTQIA plus community. And I think that that's worth talking about here because as much as we can look at the national gender pay gap that's going to be calculated off these statistics, it's going to be even bigger for our friends facing those diversities. So I wanted to highlight that first, that you guys are always front of mind and it's not just men versus women from our perspective, but this is the data that we have. And I think any step in the right direction is a

step towards equality in general. And I just wanted that to be upfront, Bec, because I feel like it's really unfair that I can't talk more comprehensively to even more information that would benefit our community because unfortunately it does not exist. Thank you very much for acknowledging that, V. That's definitely a very good point to make. So those numbers you just mentioned, reported by the Workplace Gender Equality Agency. How exactly are they calculated? So the national gender pay gap is calculated by the WGEA using data that comes from the ABS, so the Australian Bureau of Statistics, my one true Instagram love. And I actually have some more stats for you, and I don't think you're going to like them. The WGEA data for the 2021

slash 2022 reporting period showed that women received an average remuneration of $90,309 per annum which I thought was high. Did you think that was high? Yeah that feels very high. Yeah knowing the community knowing what our average income is I was like oh this is all working women though so we're talking all ends of the spectrum. Sure. This includes women who are stay-at-home mums and it also includes women who are judges and you know really fancy big dog doctors and own their own businesses so this is every single woman that is working in Australia just to contextualize that a little bit because I looked at it and I was like that's not the average income of my community members. Yeah. For some of you it will be and you'll be like, oh, that makes

sense. But the thing that annoys me, men in the same position, $116,097. Classic. That is a difference of $25,788 a year, Bec. That is so wild. Do you know what $25,788 per year could be? mortgage repayments. Yes. It could be an entire house. It could be financial freedom. It could be literally so many things. So before we get even further into it, I actually wanted to find what the gender pay gap is because there are obviously so many other gaps that exist. But the national gender pay gap that we are referencing here today measures the difference between the average weekly full-time base salary earnings of men and women expressed as a percentage of men's earnings. Bec, it is a measure of women's overall position in the paid workforce and we're not

comparing roles. So when we're not going, oh, a male doctor gets paid this and a female doctor gets paid this, we're actually just talking about the overarching gap between on average what women earn versus what men earn. And obviously that takes into consideration a whole host of other things like decisions to stay out of the workforce. And all of that makes sense, but I don't want people thinking, oh, they're comparing like for like, it's illegal to pay men and women different amounts for the same job. Like we know that exists. And we also know that while it is illegal to pay people different amounts for the same job, it still happens. So I'm not going to go on and on about it, but I do think it's really important to define that we're just talking about the average

difference between men and women and the factors that come into that. So that's where we're at. Okay. So how is it that people often regard the gender pay gap as a myth still? Yeah, makes me so frustrated. But in Australia's industrial relations system, as I said before, it's actually illegal to pay a woman less than a man when they're employed to do identical jobs. That doesn't stop it from happening. No, certainly not. But the numbers don't lie. And today we are going to be spotlighting the myriad of reasons that there is a 22.8% gap and why it exists.

Yes, please. So what are some of the reasons? Well, women obviously earn less because they are obviously more likely, and I say obviously because I think it's stereotypical. I find it interesting that it's, you know, obviously women are going to take that on. I think that's very, you know, Australian dream or American dream that that happens. But women are earning less because they are more likely to juggle paid work alongside family and caring responsibilities because women just take up the caring responsibilities. They have to sometimes. doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean that we support that, but it just happens. So 42% of

women work full-time while 67% of men work full-time. And this reflects the reality that many women are juggling paid work alongside many other responsibilities that aren't ones that you could earn money for, Bec. Coming off the back of that, this is very obvious that it's a little bit stereotyped. A little bit stereotypical. Yeah, we're not taking... Like women stay at home, Exactly. And then go to work and they bring home the bacon kind of vibes. Exactly. Gives me the ick.

Yeah, a little bit. It's 2023. It's 2023. I know that, you know, there are women out there who just do not want children, who will never have children, who, you know, whatever else. And there are women out there who are in not heteronormative relationships. So there are so many different people that this does not relate to. But it is worth mentioning that this is, you know,

this is not one brush for all folk. No, absolutely not. This is us breaking down data, unfortunately, not us breaking down stereotypes. I feel like we have to caveat this episode so many times because I'm like, this isn't including all of my friends. This isn't including the people that I love. This isn't including this. But I think it's a really good place to start because, as I said before,

our gender pay gap for what we can measure is 22.8%. I guarantee it's more for our Indigenous friends. I guarantee it's more for our LGBTQIA plus community. I just, there's so much more to talk about there. and I think that, you know, we're being a bit stereotypical because we're not stereotypical and I find it relatively novel that, you know, men have to work and women have to stay home. Like that's clearly not going to happen in my relationship there.

No. I think that we should be caveating it but also we're not here to break down stereotypes in this episode. We're just here to talk about the data and what we can do to facilitate change. Yes, absolutely. And hopefully there will be a day where we are all part of this data. 100%.

But I did want to ask, do you reckon COVID offered a bit of an opportunity for workplaces to be more flexible with their workers? I don't think it offered. I think it forced people to go into more flexible working arrangements and people now expect it, which I kind of love. I love that. Yeah, I love having flexible working arrangements. But I also know of a few businesses who were really miffed that that was the case and now their employees are expecting more flexibility because they proved that they were just as productive outside of the workplace. But the WEGA also did an employer census and found that flexibility has become increasingly important to employees, with most employers sitting at 82%, now installing a formal policy on flexibility, and remote working and flexible work hours were the most popular options with employers less likely to offer a compressed work week or job sharing, for example. Right.

I find it so interesting. And when it comes to gender equality in the workplace, WEGA's 2022 employer census contained a voluntary question because I didn't make everybody answer it. They asked businesses whether they set targets to improve workplace gender equality and a little more than half, so 53% back of employers filing reports said they had set targets. The most popular goal was to increase the number of women in leadership. Employers were less likely to set targets to increase the number of men taking parental leave or to increase the number of men in female-dominated roles. And just over half, so 54% of employers, conducted a gender pay gap analysis this year. And of those, 40% took no action as a result. Wow. I also want

to point out there, Bec, if you were an employer and you were doing this survey and they asked you whether or not you were setting targets to improve workplace gender equality and you actually weren't doing it, you like weren't doing anything to set targets or improve workplace gender equality, would you tick the box and say, no, I'm doing nothing? Would you just skip that question because it was voluntary? I would say no. You would say, it's because you're an open, honest person. I think everybody else would just skip the question because it was voluntary. So I think we need to probably go, all right, well, a little more than half, like 53% of employers said that they had set targets, but I actually think that might be a little bit lower

because some people have actually skipped the question because it was voluntary. Does that make sense? Yeah, that completely makes sense. I wouldn't own up to not doing it. Yeah, I know what you mean. I just feel like other people wouldn't either. I would say yes because I actually want things to change, but a lot of people would say no or just skip it.

That's because you're a hot girl. That's exactly why. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. This is a little bit of a controversial question. Do you think women earn less because they work in industries that pay less?

This kills me. This question kills me. I had a full-blown argument with somebody on TikTok because I can't hold myself back and a lot of my friends are like, Victoria, just don't reply to the comments. I'm like, I can't. I don't have that level of self-control. I posted something about the pay gap and then somebody was like, yeah, but women earn less because they choose industries that pay less. But unfortunately, that's not it. But yes, women represent strongly in lower paid industries like education, healthcare and social assistance, while men are concentrated in higher paying

industries such as construction and mining and utilities and some people argue that if women wanted to earn more they should move out of traditional female-led fields and switch into jobs like engineering or mining or building or the trades and stuff like that instead but we really need to reassess how much value the jobs that are essentially fostering a healthy and educated society are adding and I think that we learned a lot about that during COVID where who do we rely on the most during COVID? Oh, we relied on education, healthcare and social assistance the most. Tell me where the lack of value is there because we needed those people. They were absolutely essential. While a lot of industries were locked down and at home, I think it was a

really good reframe for us to understand where the value in our society exists and where we should actually be funneling a lot more money. But the problem is that the true value of many of these like human services jobs are dispersed widely throughout society and the benefits are not immediately visible and not fully reflective of their unfortunately low wages. Amen to that, Fi. It makes me so angry. This whole episode is making me mad.

I know. It's really such a shame and it's also kind of like, well, if women wanted to get paid more, get into jobs that don't really have availability for women. Mining, construction, no one, you know. it's just it's not as accessible I think the other thing is like yeah we are completely competent and capable and we can do that but yes having spoken to a couple of girlfriends who used to work in construction who now don't work in construction they're like I left because it was

boys club I didn't like being there I didn't feel advocated for I didn't feel safe I didn't enjoy working there because the culture is so cooked yes so I think it's there's a lot that plays into the extent about accessibility for women. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess it's kind of worth mentioning, do you feel like the levels of physical danger at work maybe contribute to the higher pay in male-dominated industries? Of course they do. The higher rates of workplace fatalities are reported in more male-dominated industries like transport, warehousing, agriculture, construction. And this is largely reflective of the physical element of those jobs, right? And that just makes sense. The science is checking out. Fatalities are an absolute and

undeniable tragedy and no one would ever disagree with this. But I must say too that mental stress is certainly something that should be way more valued as well. Like look at the top 10 jobs with the highest number of claims for workplace related mental stress. And we find that female dominated professions like health and welfare support workers and nurses and personal carers and school teachers alongside paramedics and defense personnel and police officers and bus and rail drivers are really, really high. So when it comes to injury, physical and mental to me should be lumped into the same basket and stress in these occupations honestly often comes from exposure to violence or a traumatic event, assault, harassment, bullying, and really should be

valued in remuneration as well. 100% Bea. I guess we'll absorb all of that. We'll go to a quick break and be back in five. I'm going to de-stress. See you on the flip side. Okay, V, we are back and we're talking about the gender pay gap. Eww. Now, I want to know, how about women in senior roles in companies and how this affects earning capacity? Oh, good question. WEGA's 2022 employer report shows that women are still underrepresented

in leadership and men are 1.5 times more likely to hold managerial positions. Here are some stats that I have collected from that report. 22.3% of CEOs are women. I should have said only 22.3% are women, but only 20% of boards have gender balance. Wow. And 22.3% of boards are constructed entirely of men. Wow. No women at all. That is so outrageous. It's so gross, isn't it? It is. And this isn't like a men versus women debate. But I must say, every single female boss I've had has been absolutely delightful. Men too, but I just want to, you know, I want to see more women involved. I can't share that. So I have had a few bosses that absolutely take the mickey,

but I really don't think it comes down to their gender from my perspective. But statistics tell us that gender diverse workplaces are more productive and better places to be and more profitable and 6 million other better things. And I just, I find it super interesting to dive into the stats. Yeah, absolutely. Checks out. Why is it that men tend to climb the career ladder more rapidly than women? There's so many reasons. Obviously, the most stereotypical one that comes up is taking time out of the workforce to raise children. And I feel like that's one of the most obvious factors that interrupts women's career progression. And remaining out of the workforce after having children is not always by choice. If a partner can't share the caring load or the

childcare costs preclude the financial gains of returning full-time. And as somebody who now has a lot of friends who have babies, I find it so genuinely interesting because, you know, you hear stats like, oh my gosh, Bec, did you know that, you know, childcare can be like $110, $130 per child per day? And you go, all right, well, if that's the statistic, and obviously there are definitely rebates available, but at $110 a day, if they're doing that every day of the week, because if you're a full-time worker, that's still $550. What we need to remember is that's post-tax. You've got two kids. That's now $1,100 a week that you're paying in childcare. And let's say that, you know, 48 weeks of the year, because we all get four weeks off, right? If we times that

by 48, that's $52,800 if you have two children in full-time childcare. And a lot of women aren't earning that. And the fact that that is post-tax as well, if you're on a $70,000 income, it's not worth going back to work. If you're on $80,000, not worth going back to work. And those are good incomes. Bec, and this frustrates me because in Australia, two kids is pretty standard, right? So to have two kids in childcare for that amount of money, right? I've done some stats. We've gone back to the WEGA data I mentioned earlier that said that women receive an average remuneration of $90,309. I've assumed not including superannuation. So we're pretending that this is the best possible scenario. We're pretending that you've got $90,000 plus super each year,

right? So that's good. That means that you have an annual take-home pay of $68,685 after tax because you'd be paying about $21,600-ish in tax. And do you know what that means? That means if your two children are in full-time childcare and you're going to work every single week, you're only earning $15,885 a year. That is so outrageous. And you divide that by 12 months of the year, you're earning about $1,300 a month for being away from your kids for the entire time. And I think that makes a lot of sense when people say it's not worth returning to work because we're not talking about returning to work part-time. We're not talking about returning to a job that you get paid 50 grand. We are talking about that average salary of women of $90,309.

You are literally, if you put both of your kids in care and go to work, you're just $15,885 better off. Oh my gosh. Imagine if you're a single mom and you don't have anyone to watch your children during the week. That's it. That's $15,000. Like if you are a single mom, how much are you going to pay on rent? How much are you going to pay on gross? That's not enough to survive. Not enough to survive. And then if you've got a dual income household and you're in that fortunate position, then that's fantastic. But what about the additional stress of being a full-time parent or having two full-time parents managing daycare, managing not seeing your kids that often because you have to drop them off at 6.30 in the morning because you need to drive an hour and a half to

get to work because you live a bit further out. Like to me, it is absolutely corked and you can tell I could go on and on and on about this. But yes, taking time out of the workforce to raise children is a women's issue, but often it's not a choice. And that's where I was getting at. I just feel like so many times like women take on the caring load or the childcare load because the costs really do keep you out of full-time gainful employment. And it's not because you don't want to be there like so many times. And it's a beautiful choice to make. If you choose to be a stay-at-home mom, you do you. I'm so proud that you get that opportunity to choose. But if you are someone, like take my personality, I can't imagine not working. When I have kids,

I'm going to love the hell out of them. But I also know that to be the best version of me, I also need to have that outlet. It's just who I am. So that would make it not financially viable. So it's not a choice that we all make. It's sometimes a choice we have to make. But even women without children, right, they don't necessarily reach senior ranks as quickly as men either, which is really gross. And even when women reach management levels, they still earn less than their male counterparts, which, again, gives me the ick. That gives me the ick too. That's wild. It's so sad.

It's so rude because underlyingly, men are seen as more competent, capable human beings. Oh, my gosh. It's disgusting. 23. In the most stereotypical terms, what about this idea that there's a difference in ambition and confidence between men and women? Where'd you get that idea? Because there's literally no evidence that women lack in terms of career ambition. Like that doesn't exist. That is something that people just say maybe to make themselves feel better. I don't know who's feeling better about that quote fact that they throw around. Bec, a recent study of Australian

school students found no major differences between males and females in factors motivating their career aspirations. And women are now surpassing men in terms of post-school education achievements. And when it comes to confidence, it is true that men generally report stronger confidence in their capabilities compared to women and higher levels of confidence are linked to higher pay, which I'm not surprised about, but it does give me the ick. And that's why we always talk about, and we've talked about it on this show before, I've told you a million times that men are likely to just go for a job if they meet like 60% of the criteria. And they're like, ah, give it a crack. And women are like, no, if I don't meet 100% of the criteria, couldn't possibly apply.

And it just, get out there, put your foot out there and say, I'll give it a crack, no worries. But there is no economic evidence whatsoever, Bec, that higher confidence actually makes a worker a more productive and valuable member to that company. It's actually quite the opposite. Really? Yeah, because an overconfident person can be a little bit more of a liability for a company through reckless decision making and maybe not listening as much as they could because they think that they're so smart. And often too, there's greater risk that women who show assertiveness and ambition will be perceived disfavorably. I guess think of how women managers are often stereotypically viewed as too pushy and too bossy. Yeah, that makes me sad. I have grown up being

bossy, like being told I was bossy or pushy or too forward or too this or too that. And you're not too anything. Thank you, honey. But it's really disheartening because I know just on reflection that little boys who had the same behavioral traits as me would be, you know, oh, he's going to be a good leader one day. And it's just, it's so ick because I never got those conversations. I just got the conversation of always being told I was too much of something. And it's like too much of what? Because that to me is ridiculous. That is ridiculous. If you were, you know, we're speculating here, but if you were a little boy, I can imagine that everyone would have been like, what a confident and bright young man. I can't believe he goes and does this, that. It's

insane how much gender stereotypes play into it. And saying that, that was never my parents. They never told me that. That was my school experience, which is why I'm here now. Amazing. Thanks, mum. So I probably know the answer to this, but how about just asking for a pay rise? Oh, what a good idea, Bec. Just march into your boss's office and be like, do you know what? Talking to my mate, she earns way more than me. Could I have a pay rise? It's going to work. Okay. No, it's actually not. But it's now been shown that Australian women ask for a pay rise just as often as men, which we love. That's amazing. But you know what's really trashy? Oh no. They're less likely to get it. So gross. Add in bonuses and allowances, which are often negotiable components. The gender gap

in total remuneration then widens further because don't forget those statistics that we were throwing around before of the $90,309 and the $16,087 are just base salary. They're not the car and the negotiated kind of benefits that come with that. Often in addition to all of that, it's the subtle influence of unconscious bias that makes businesses lean towards men for senior roles and then reward them with higher pay. Ah, how good. It's so good. This has just been a really uplifting episode. I feel really empowered as a woman in a leadership space. But it's also really important to talk about, right? Like if we're not talking about this and we're not getting upset about this. Nothing is going to change. And after going through COVID, so pre-COVID,

we did an episode and we were talking about, you know, something similar. I think we did a whole episode on the gender pay gap because these statistics come out every single year, like clockwork, and we need to keep talking about them. But pre-COVID, the amount of time it would take to reach gender pay equality was going to be 150 years. And at the time I was horrified because I was like, that's 150 years. It's not even going to happen in my lifetime, let alone my future children's lifetime like this is cooked and then COVID happened and pegged us back and it's now 200 years back oh no it's literally the worst I thought it was gonna be last yeah no it's even worse because think about what happened during COVID child care centers yeah I see schools

closed and the responsibility of that actually ended up falling on usually the women in the relationships because men were like, no, sorry, got to do my job. And it just, yeah. Oh, don't start me. Do not start me on that concept of babysitting your own children. You do not babysit your own children, sir. You are actually parenting because you're a parent. You're their father. Their father doesn't babysit. Their father actually parents when the other parent is unable to be there. Oh, don't start me. I know I actually could go on and on and on about that. I hate it. I I remember I used to work with someone who I would go, oh, what are you up to this weekend, X, Y, Z?

And they'd be like, oh, I've got to babysit the kids. And I would bite his head off and he'd be like, why are you so aggressive on this? I'd be like, because they're your kids. Yes, you made them. You made them. That is your responsibility. Babysitting implies that you shouldn't really have to do it

or you should be remunerated for it. Yes. No, you hire a babysitter when you and your partner go out. Oh, don't even. Don't even. Wait until I have kids. Everyone's in trouble. Oh, I'm very excited for that.

So what can employers do to make a workplace more gender equal? A heap of things. So organisations need to be, from my perspective, way more transparent about current rates of pay, salary bans, and what items can actually be negotiated for. So for example, you could negotiate more paid parental leave, flexible hours, remote working. You could actually set different targets. I think it's worth mentioning here as well that pay secrecy last year became illegal in Australia. And that makes my heart sing. So if you're looking at your contract and anywhere in your contract, it says you're not allowed to discuss that with your co-workers, that clause is now void. That doesn't exist. It doesn't matter if your employer told you

you can't do it. It is illegal for them to tell you you can't do that. And you can talk about your salary as much as you like. In saying that, I would, from my perspective, proceed with caution because obviously as much as it is illegal, you don't really want to get your business offside and then compromise your role unless you are really passionate about it or want to do it. So I'm not saying go and just start talking about it. Like obviously we need to slowly go into that conversation and maybe work towards having those clauses removed from the contracts and then maybe having more open, honest conversations in general. But yeah, I just don't want anyone in our community to be like, oh my gosh, Victoria said I could do it now

because it's not illegal. And then, you know, my boss fired me for something else. And I think it was, do you know what I mean? Like, I just don't want anyone to get in trouble with it because as much as it is illegal, it doesn't mean it's not happening. Yeah. Another thing that companies can do is do a pay gap analysis and then take action on the findings. I feel like there are a lot of businesses that bury their heads in the sand about this because they know that they're not doing the right things. And I've heard it a million times, like in the position that I have in the She's on the money community. I'm so grateful for the conversations I have, but I'm often so heartbroken when someone comes in and they're like, oh, I do this job, Victoria. And I don't know how to

approach it, but I was talking to my male colleague the other day and they're on $30,000 more than me and I trained them. And I'm like, oh, that is honestly awful. And I cannot believe that management lets that happen. Like if you're somebody that lets that stuff happen, the buck stops with you. And it's actually not on that other person to advocate more for their own salary. It's actually on you to make sure that equality exists in your workplace. And then another thing I think businesses should be taking into consideration is paid family and domestic violence leave. So in recent developments, employees of non-small business employers can now access 10 days

of paid family and domestic violence leave in a 12-month period. And employees of small businesses can access that leave from the 1st of August, 2023. That's amazing. Which is really awesome. Like that is a really good step in the right direction. And what can we do as individuals? We can do more than you think we can do. And from my perspective, the most important step we can take is to recognise that the gender pay gap does actually exist in the first place.

And then as we were saying before, you and I got a little bit heated before about the babysitting comment, but I think we need to look at language. Comments like, my husband's babysitting, how amazing. Like, no, no, we don't celebrate minimum chips, do we? Like, no, no, no, no. And it's also important, I guess, to think about how we see women as really good mothers spending and devoting all this time to their children and staying home instead of working, etc. But when we see men do that, generally, we kind of say, oh, what an amazing father. That's so novel. Wow. Yeah, it's so novel. But it really should just be the norm. And that way, you know, men can stay home as a stay-at-home father and those kind of things can kind of open up a little bit more. Yeah, 100%. I was actually talking about this with a friend the other day, and we were talking about the division of labor between the parent who is the breadwinner and the parent who stays at home to do the child care. And the interesting fact that often it falls on the parent that is the child carer to actually do things 24-7.

So one parent goes and does a 40-hour work week and the other parent does the 40-hour work week but then also is in charge of appointments and making lunches and doing absolutely everything and making sure that the laundry is done and making sure that dinner's on the table when their partner gets home and all of this other stuff above and beyond. So the paid parent that brings home money is actually in a position where they only work 40 hours a week and then they think that the time outside of that 40 hours is their time because their partner stays home to look after childcare. but the fact is when you come home from work the childcare actually becomes a shared task and those appointments need to be made by one of the parents and the laundry is actually both parents responsibility and dinner could be both parents responsibility and I think this division of labor of assuming that if women are in the home they're in the home 24 7 and they need to always be switched on like no no no like if you're going to work for 40 hours a week there is a childcare job that is happening in your home for 40 hours a week the rest of it

is shared. And I think that it's really interesting because that's not how, you know, I didn't grow up with a stay-at-home parent, but that's stereotypically how you assume the stay-at-home parent works, right? They're just 24-7 mum taxi, right? Absolutely. Disgusting. That is not the case. They're not meant to switch off. They're giving their entire lives to these children. No. So as we were saying before, we don't celebrate minimum chips, but also the other thing we can do is keep an eye out. We're obviously very, very early, but Equal Pay Day is the 29th of August. Talk about it with your friends, your family, your co-workers. Get into your HR's diary early to make sure that we're talking about it on that day because I feel like

Equal Pay Day sneaks up on us each and every single year and so many people say, I wish I'd known about this sooner so I could have done something with work. Now's the time to peg it in HR's diary so they don't forget. I love that. I didn't actually know that existed. Equal Pay Day. Yeah. Celebrate. We're going to get it one day, hopefully not in 200 years, hopefully much sooner than that. Hopefully we'll see it. Unfortunately, Bec, I think that's all we have time for today. Well, I'm going to go put that in my calendar. Let's go talk to our friends and family about this bloody gender pay gap. Don't even, I end up in arguments. So I'm not going to do that, but you're more than welcome to. I might go cry. Yeah. Okay. Well,

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