She's On The Money - You Don't Make Friends with Property

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

This Deep Dive covers all things buying property with friends and guarantors! Victoria Devine will explain the pitfalls and possible positives of Guarantor relationships and making big purchases with people who aren't your partner.If you need a bit more advice, contact the National Debt Helpline on 1800 007 007 or use their live chat function at https://ndh.org.au/Love the pod but looking for a more hands-on approach to your money? Look no further. Our budgeting & cash flow masterclass is the tool you need to help overhaul your finances for good. Join Victoria as she steps you through your budgeting and cash flow with all of the smarts and none of the intimidating jargon.  Finally, if you're in a money mess and need help untangling the muddle - we've got you sorted - simply record your question and send it through to us at [e-mail] and you may just end up on the podcast!  The advice shared on She’s on The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She’s on The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Victoria Devine is an Authorised Representative of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN 34 132 463 257 - AFSL 339151.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She's on the money. She's on the money. Hello and welcome to She's on the money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Surprise, surprise, house prices in Australia are high. Shocking. And as everyone listening would be aware, over the last few months in certain pockets of the country prices seem to have skyrocketed even further. Our mate Ryan John V was telling

us the other day about a house he was looking at that went for about 400k more than it was listed for which makes me want to vomit. And you and I actually from the peninsula complete side note yeah property down on the niche went for 1.6 million dollars over reserve last weekend Georgia. What? Yeah it was in Macquarie. And so reserve means means that means what it's listed for? Well, kind of what it's listed for, but what the owners want to let it go for, right? So, it was a very expensive property to begin with. But the real question here is who has an extra $1.6 million roost to be like, you know what? That house is so nice, I'll buy it twice.

Like, what? Not me. Anyway, that happened. Carry on. Well, the long story short there is that the property market is a tough nut to crack, especially if you're cracking it solo. And don't have an extra $1.6 million roost to spend. Damn it. So what are our other options, V? Could we buy with a friend or a sibling? What are the benefits

of doing that? And more importantly, what are the risks? Joining me, as you would know now, because she's spoken multiple times in this introduction. And she just gets involved. She just butts in. It is award-winning financial advisor, Victoria Devine. V, I want to start by asking you if you would ever buy with your little sister and my good friend, Alex Devo Devine. Alex Devo-Divine. I think I would. Really? I don't have heaps and heaps of dollar brews, though.

Like, it's not like I can be like, oh, let's just go. Let's buy a house together. But if she was in a situation where she wanted to purchase and I happened to want to invest in a property at that time, she was a pretty responsible gal, to be honest. Really? I thought you'd be like, absolutely not. I kind of assumed you would say that.

I mean, she's a responsible gal and we are very, like, I'm a financial advisor, so I would probably have a lot more education going into a process like that. okay cool no problems let's put a contract together let's do this let's work out what what point we sell what point we do this who's going to live in it what does this look like so I'd probably be a lot more pragmatic to try and take the emotion out of it so that she and I could actually do it together if we wanted to but yeah maybe maybe I would I like the idea of it but as this episode is going to discuss it's maybe not the best idea even if

I would like to do it, right? Yeah. Okay. Well, Devo, if you're listening, get in touch with your sister. Probably don't. I have no money. It's a hypothetical question. Bye. Okay. Let's talk pros and cons here, V. I know someone who is planning at the moment actually on buying with his brother, twin brother. Fun fact. Anyway, they can play like switcheroo, pretend it's their apartment. They're not identical. Okay. They can still give it a go. Be like parent trap, but we're adults and we own our own property. Did it ever trip you out that that was just Lindsay Lohan? Yeah, it was very uncool. There was never two of them as an eight-year-old. It was a trap. For a very long time, I thought she had a twin. Turns out, no.

Same. Just great camera effects. Let's move on, V. Talk to me about the benefits of this process. So, obviously, it gives you access to the market sooner than you would have otherwise been able to do it because, as we know, dual incomes mean that you have double the money to spend or save or invest with. And here in Australia, it actually takes an average of 4.6 years to save for a house deposit. And that's according to the statistics from the Australian government. But I just side note, I think most of us would agree it takes much longer than that, like 4.6 years. Like what? Where are you buying? Buying somewhere where houses are $200,000 and definitely not in Melbourne or Sydney, I believe. So speeding up that process by combining two lump sums of savings is definitely

a way to perk up the property buying process and make sure that you can afford a house that maybe you couldn't have otherwise. It can also help you get into a preferred location because the more money you're able to put towards that asset, it means you're able to spend a bit more, get in a better location, whatever you're doing there. In the Facebook group this week, G, you asked a question. We heard a positive story from a woman called Joy who said that she bought a holiday home with her in-laws and that went really well. And apart from a few minor disagreements, they say it's a really good decision. So for many Australians, buying a property is their major money goal. And that's what they've been working towards forever. So I think that it's definitely

a thing that people would want to put together for to buy because it just feels elusive if you're on your own sometimes. So it's not a bad idea. It's just something we really, really need to consider deeply. So the main benefits would be getting into the market sooner and perhaps buying somewhere that you would prefer to live in that's pretty much it absolutely and I think it's just around that flexibility piece really like obviously a property is a massive investment it kind of gives a little bit of that responsibility to someone else like it could be fun like I don't know I always have this idea of buying a house with all of my friends when we're old and all moving into it just having this mega mansion with all our pets and all our partners and we just have sleepovers

every night. Like that's not the worst idea, right? Probably. No, it totally is. Let's move it on. G, what's your next question? Well, so I guess money and family and money and friends, that's difficult territory to be traipsing, generally speaking. It is so risky, G. Well, what are the risks? So many risks, because often your goals aren't as aligned as you think it is. So I could be like, G, let's buy a house together. And you'd be like, great, I love houses. and then we pick a location we buy it together and we haven't deeply discussed exactly what our priorities are and maybe my priority because I'm a little investment friend I want to buy it as an investment property so the market you know goes up significantly and I go great this is perfect

time to sell we're going to make a really great profit on these and you go but I wanted to hold it forever and then we're going to have a disagreement about whether to sell it or I'm buying it as an investment property and you've said that but then later down the track you want to move in? And I go, okay, cool. Well, you paying rent and you go, no, because I own the property and go, but that's not fair. So there's all of these things that can pop up during the journey where our values don't align. And it's not necessarily things that you can predict either. Like I might come up against some financial troubles and go, oh my gosh, I actually can't afford the mortgage repayments on this anymore. I really want to, you know, get rid of my part

of this property, which ultimately means you've got to sell your property as well. I can't just sell my part so you're lumped into my financial problems then and it's just as much as the responsibility is diluted the issues are then diluted as well so what becomes my issue financially is also your issue and I think that that's a really deep thing to discuss but money family and friends never mix well never never never never like I feel like when you lend money to a friend you'll get only one thing back you'll either get your friendship back or the money back it's hardly ever both so I genuinely believe we need to be so careful when making decisions around money and friendship and money and siblings and money and parents because it's just so convoluted now I've

said this so many times my biggest piece of advice you know this is not the business bible podcast if you would like more business advice head over there but never go into business with your friends is my advice I don't care how smart or how great they are or how you know successful they are I really struggle with the idea of going into business with friends because it becomes so much more convoluted becomes really messy and money and business and everything like that is actually really challenging and the same is going to happen with property and you should really see property purchases as a very similar asset acquisition so that you you know it's a big responsibility I've never seen it work super well unless everything is sunshine and roses I'm gonna

have to go hey gee we can't afford rent this month like that's going to cause conflict it's going to cause resentment and as much as you go no like we'll get through it together like at some point or another it's not going to work out well in saying that I come across as someone who works with their friends and I absolutely do because I think that everybody in my team has now become a friend as well as a business you know associate and I feel like that has come from a different place so I think it's different if your relationship started as a business relationship and then flourishes into a friendship that's very different than going to school together and then going into business I see that as very different so you would know I have a really great relationship

with Ryan and Jess and you and you know Tony and everyone in our team and I love them desperately but that has started at business so that's what it always boils back down to it's always like okay cool when it comes to business this is business we need to just get this done let's go grab a drink that's very different than oh yeah but you said and remember when I went to my mum's house and you know your mum said this and we grew up with these values it's it's disgustingly convoluted and that's my blunt opinion so I'm skipping ahead a little bit here but that's okay you're allowed what is the difference then between buying with your best friend and buying with your boyfriend or your partner or whoever it may be but that someone that you're romantically attached to

why is that different because we see that obviously every day people are buying houses together in a partnership yeah absolutely so in my humble opinion it's because when you buy with a partner it's because you expect that relationship to grow together and have the same goals essentially forever and let's use me as an example I bought with Steve I have every intention of staying with him forever I hope that one day he's taking his sweet time but we get married and you know we have kids and our goals are aligned and that property purchase is aligned to the goals that we are creating together. I can't predict that for you. And so I guess it's easiest to use you as an example. But if I said, gee, right now it makes a lot of sense to go and purchase a property

together and you go, yeah, V, like that's great. We're really close. You know, we've got this great relationship. We talk about money all the time. So I don't see that as an issue. And then a year later, you and Harper decide to go move to London. Yeah. And then you're saying, oh, look, I'm going to move to London I can't really afford x y and z or you know you come into some financial troubles we aren't a team in the same way that my partner and I are a team and go through those things together and in my experience my if my salary was completely cut and I couldn't contribute to the mortgage it'd be a us problem not your problem and it's just a very different ball game in my opinion yeah okay so it's all about that goal alignment yeah peace if you will um okay have

Have you seen this in your place of work turn wrong with your clients? Yes, I have. I've seen it turn. Look, as a financial advisor, we get to see people at their greatest. We also get to see people at their most desperate. And I've seen a lot of people who have gone into property purchases with siblings who they now don't even talk to anymore because it's just gone so awry. I've also seen guarantor relationships completely fall apart because there was a mismatch between what one person's expectations of the deposit being and the other person's expectations of the deposit being so to quickly define a guarantor isn't where someone gives you money it's where they put their asset up as security for your loan

so it means that in the future they potentially can't get another loan because there's a security being held over the top of their property so it actually is a lot of risk it's not just someone signing a bit of paper being like oh cool like if she can't pay her mortgage I'll pay it for G like they're actually putting a caveat over their own mortgage so then they can't release as much equity as they might want to if they want to go buy an investment property or they have to you know get rid of that guarantor before they can sell their property because how do you sell a property that has a security over it so there's a lot of attachment that I don't think people understand when it comes to guarantors because often people flippantly say oh just get my parents

to guarantor it's like do you know how big that responsibility is actually do you realize what the financial implications for them are because there are some it might be to you just signing a piece of paper but it's not actually in reality that can feel that way just on that guarantor note v i used to live with devo victoria's younger sister and when her name's actually alex alexandra louise she does hate being called devo doesn't she yeah so upgrade everybody should now call her lexi lou because their middle name's louise and lex she hates it love you alex anyway we used to lived together but before we lived together we had to get a house we had to find a house and it was really good housemate great housemate you're a liar no no she was one of my worst

housemate i ever had she was savage she was very neat i was listening i know she is so organized woman anyway uh love you d if you're listening um so basically we when we were trying to look for a house no one would take us because we were 20 or something and we didn't have much party animals yeah we were loose units anyway we wanted our parents to go as guarantor and mum was like no girl definitely not and I was like Jo why not it's simple like I'm not gonna let you down but she wouldn't do it and I thought I just I was I couldn't understand why she wouldn't do it and now it makes sense because it was would have been a huge risk yeah and I think that that's it's different when renting though so same level of risk because it all falls back to her if you

guys mess up but it's very different there wouldn't be a caveat over the top of her mortgage for you to do that it would just be her signing on to say if G King decides not to pay her rent I'm gonna have to cough it up and I think that that's a really big responsibility to take on for someone else's child so if you were leasing on your own maybe they would have been like yep cool we've got cheese back but like what if my sister didn't pay her rent or you know your other housemates didn't pay that shouldn't fall back on your mum and that's where I would have been saying exactly what Jo King said no thank you good on you Jo still a bit salty about it um let's move on and move back to chatting about buying with someone other than a significant other no I really

wanted to talk about how salty you are on your mum love your mum um so yeah as we said I did post in the community and we did see that most of these people did have negative experiences in going through this process there was a story from toy i think it was who bought an investment property with a relative she put down the deposit and that relative was meant to match that deposit with other expenses but once all of the paperwork was signed and they were classified as tenants in common which we will go into later the relative refused to pay a cent and it was all left up to our community member to to foot she then finished the post by saying that she no longer classes the person as a relative which is heartbreaking. Do stories like this surprise you V? It definitely

does not surprise me G at all. This is a story I've heard all too often and all of my friends in real estate have heard all too often. We actually heard from someone who was on the other side of this wanting to buy with her partner but he'd locked into a mortgage with his mum a few years back so it not only impacts those people directly involved but also the people on the periphery which kind of sucks and not kind of actually really truly deeply sucks and I think that that's something you really need to understand when you go into one of these relationships with somebody is that this could happen and nobody goes into a relationship or an agreement with the expectation that this is going to happen we all say oh it'll never happen to me and it's like

getting a boyfriend right you know getting married nobody gets married with the intention of getting a divorce with the average cost of a wedding being like I think it's like $34,000 now in Australia like you don't just accidentally get married to then go nah but we'll probably get a divorce yeah like you don't choose that no one chooses that so I think that it's really important to remember that if you are going to do this let's see it as a business transaction let's stop going you know what I love G King so much I trust her let's go all right G if we're going to buy a house together one let's understand our goals let's put a contract in place let's actually go to a lawyer might be expensive might be a thousand dollars to have a little contract written up but that

thousand dollars could save your butt later down the track and five hundred dollars each to make a commitment is really not that much money when you think about it in the grand scheme of things okay so financially speaking then v what happens if we do buy with a friend and then three years down the track they decide that they want to buy with their partner instead yeah so you've actually got to have some other friends who are kind of scary looking that are happy to go to their house knock on their door and be like, give us our money. But if you don't have those friends, because no one should have those friends, let's be honest. In Australia, when you do buy a property with a partner or a family member or a mate, whoever, you will still have entered into either

a joint tenancy agreement or a tenancy in common agreement. They have very different rules and they are both legally binding, which is terrifying. And what happens if you decide to go your separate ways will be very different depending on which agreement you opted into at the start. So let's have a chat about what each of those are. Joint tenancy is the more common option of the two, especially with couples. And that's where each of you owns equal parts of that property, no matter who contributes to the mortgage. It's an even split. So say you get a high-flying job, George, and have the capacity to pay more on the mortgage than your partner harps would. That would therefore mean that you don't actually own more of the property. You did pay more of the

mortgage, but like he still owns his 50%. Does that make sense? By the same merit, you're both equal owners of the property so you're both equally responsible for the debt even if you are paying more or just said to Harps don't worry I'll pay off extra whatever it is. So I want you to be aware that if you are entering into this kind of agreement and you are paying more of the mortgage when it comes time to sell that property you aren't actually entitled to your quote portion of that property you're only going to be entitled to 50% of it so just be aware. Also in a joint tenancy, there is a thing called a right of survivorship, which means that if one of the joint tenants actually dies, the property passes directly to the other tenants. So if, you know,

you and I purchased G and I passed away yesterday, you would get my entire property, not my family, even though it was one of my assets. So I think that's important to take into consideration because if you're buying it with a partner, yeah, you might want it to go to your partner but if you're purchasing an asset with a friend to you know create wealth individually and then you know in your will you wanted your wealth to go to your family that wouldn't actually happen in this situation which is a bit sad you know you might be a good guy and be like yeah cool let's sell it let's split it we'll give it 50% to Victoria's parents but not everybody is a good person and we need to remember that especially when things like that

happen in comparison though a tenancy in common agreement by contrast means that it's not an even split. Instead, your stake in the property is going to depend on your financial contribution to it. So you might own 30% of the property instead of 50%, which would be the case in that joint tenancy we just discussed. And your co-owner might own 70% because Harper is a baller. In that situation, when it comes time to sell, you would both be owed the percentage of the asset that you owned rather than the even split. Does that make sense? It does make sense. Side note, the right of survivorship that I explained just before does not exist in a tenancy in common agreement so if the person in your agreement passes away so if I passed away then you just won't receive my share

so you need to make sure the wills are updated and you actually have an estate plan in place and that you are doing all of this stuff before you even enter into the agreement but I'm going to stop talking about that now because one it's not actually that interesting let's just touch on the definitions, but two, we're going to discuss it in way, way, way more detail in the property playbook podcast, which is coming out next month. Is it? Yeah. Actually two weeks or something. Is that right, Tony? Two weeks. Tony is nodding her head and giving me a big thumbs up saying that it is definitely coming out in two weeks, which is like really exciting. But from my part, slightly terrifying. Get excited guys. I think we'll have a little break now, but on the

other side of the break, we will be chatting about how we can minimize the risks of buying with a pal if we do feel like we need to do that. And we will hear more on Vicky D's take on guarantors. Don't go anywhere. Guys, if you are loving today's conversation, please join us over on our Facebook page, on Instagram, on YouTube, TikTok. We've got a newsletter. We've got it all. And if you do love the show as well, please leave us a positive review five stars would be just delightful but you do you four would be good as well five is best five is best I reckon five is best and gee in my humble opinion you deserve five stars you so do you got more questions about Karen I do okay so if we are set on buying with

a sibling or a mate how can we minimize the risks that you spoke about earlier on all right so get everything in writing get receipts take your screenshots you cannot rely on just conversations no matter how much you trust a person like I don't even care if you trust them so deeply that it feels awkward to bring it up blame me be like oh well I was listening to this podcast and they said Victoria the devil she said that you have to get it in writing so you know I'm just doing as I was told love it like I'll happily be anybody's scapegoat when it comes to making decisions around finances I don't even care blame me I'll be that mum that you've got that code word that you text to be like oh yeah I'm doing okay XOXO but it means come and pick me up right now like

I'll be that parent for you. Love that. I've got you but I really recommend getting the assistance of a property lawyer or a conveyancer just to help make the process a lot easier but the main thing you want established and written down before you even take it further is six things and I'm going to list them off because I've written them all down. Are you ready G? I'm ready. So number one who will live in the house? Is it tenants? Is it one of the owners? Is it no one? Who knows? Is at a house for your dog. Let's get our goals on the table. Two, what percentage of the property are either of you going to own? Are you 50-50 with me? Am I 30-70 because you have more money than me because I spent all of mine on dog accessories? I don't know. Three, what happens

if you can't meet payments? What happens if one month we can't do it? What's the agreement there? How is that going to work? How do we have that conversation? Just like in business, I want you to think worst case scenario, what happens if we can't pay the bills? Have the hard conversation hypothetically because it's so much easier to have it hypothetically. Same goes with relationships. If you're entering into a marriage, I think one of the most important conversations you have with your partner is what happens if we divorce? Get on the table exactly how you want to be treating each other. You say, okay, gee, I'd want it to be treated with respect. I'd want to make sure that we're on the same page I'd want you know this to happen so that if ever you do go through that

process you don't have to have an awkward conversation during the heat of the moment where you actually really don't like the other person you can fall back on a conversation and a document that you've created together to say you know what when we were both level-headed and so in love with each other this is what we wanted the outcome to be let's go down that route because it's treating each other with kindness yeah that's my opinion so it's like a little bit of awkwardness now for a whole lot less awkward yeah and it's totally not awkward going hey gee what happens if I can't pay the mortgage and you go hey there you like if it was just one month like I'd you know I'd pay it but then you know you'd owe me or okay well maybe my parents might

help me or my partner do you know what I mean like have that conversation now to talk about what's reasonable to expect versus not because you might say oh v if you can't afford the mortgage like I actually don't have any extra cash like you can't rely on me if I can't pay it because like I'm just budgeting so that I have exactly what the mortgage repayments are and like I don't have any more flexibility in my budget like it's really important to have that conversation up front the next is number four who pays for house maintenance who's going to pay the insurance who looks after the rental income tax who's going to talk to the real estate agent if your tenant's hot water system is broken and it needs replacing who's going to make that decision around how much

you're going to pay for it and like have that conversation number five is how we make decisions about the property like if you want to extend or you know someone knocks on the door and says do you want to sell the property how are you going to make those decisions how are you going to make them together and how are you going to make them well and then number six I've written down was what will the structure of ownership look like so back to that joint tenancy or tenants in common agreement what does that look like how does that work and also are you owning it me being a financial advisor are you going to own it individually or are you owning it in a family trust? What does that actually look like? What are the benefits you need to talk to your accountant

about a property purchase like that? So have a chat. There's plenty more that you need to, but I think those six are probably a good start. Very well put there, Vee. And there is so much to consider. So if anyone listening is a little bit stressed that maybe they don't have a pen with them to note all of that down, I will put together a bit of a blog post so you can refer to that after the show. Oh, you're so generous. You also really like writing, so I'm not surprised. It's a joy, it's a joy. Thank you, thank you. V, if someone has bought with a friend or a family member

and they're five years in and it's not working for whatever reason, and maybe they didn't ask themselves those six important questions, what are they meant to do now? Don't feel bad about it, having listened to our podcast. Like you don't know what you don't know. So don't, you know, crucify yourself

because I'm now saying, oh, you should not have done it that way. That's not what we're saying. We're saying, if this is a decision you're making, here are some handy tips. here's how you should be approaching it but I think just take a deep breath potentially sit down I always really like writing down what my intentions were when I made a decision if I'm not feeling comfortable about that decision anymore just to really create a little bit

more clarity and be like okay cool I purchased this because I really liked working with Georgia I really liked this I really liked that and you know what did I want to get out of it and you can refer back to that and just remain level-headed like one thing that my dad taught me cheers dad is that if you lose your temper, you lose your argument. So don't lose your temper. You won't lose your argument. So just be really pragmatic in that point of self-reflection where you get to sit down and go, okay, cool. What were my intentions? What do I want the outcome to be? Write it down because if you can write it down, you're more likely to be able to properly articulate it to the other person because you've had that reflection time. So for me,

that's really important. And then also get some professional advice. Go see a solicitor, go see a lawyer, go have a chat with somebody about what that is. And if you're really, really stuck, I think the National Debt Helpline, they've got some financial counsellors, completely free, epic service. Give them a buzz and we'll make sure that in the show notes, their number is there. All right. Bit of a change of pace here, V. If we have listened to this podcast, we were planning on buying with a mate, but now we're like, maybe not such a great idea. talk to me more about guarantors like are they a helpful way of getting into the market or are they kind of just a trap? They are absolutely not a trap having a guarantor is such a special thing

if you've got a parent that is willing to put that level of risk on you getting access to the property market that is so great and I think that it's really important to consider how you feel about that before going into it but also just being really grateful for that opportunity because isn't an opportunity that most of us don't actually have access to it's very limited amounts of people who are actually able to do that because their parents have to be in the financial position where they can actually afford it and that often comes with like you know good money habits that have been ingrained over a long period of time and so if you're in that position like that's great but it is a very privileged position to be and you can't just go oh just get a guarantor like it's not

available to everybody and you know I think that a lot of parents actually feel a lot of guilt because they're not able to provide that to their children, especially in 2021, where properties are going for $400,000 over reserve consistently. Parents are like, oh my gosh, it was so much easier getting into the property market when I was getting in. I wish I could help my child, but it's just not an option for me. Might limit them too much. It might stop them retiring as easily. It might stop them buying an investment property to help them with their financial success. So, I think if your parents aren't able to do that or they're saying no, there's a really good reason they're saying no it's not just because they don't want to it's because maybe

they're not financially able to and it's actually none of your business what their financial lives are in my opinion it's not your business what your parents earn what they spend what they own what they own not your business unless they decide to share that with you and I think that goes for everybody right but definitely an option still if you want to do it but I think it's also really important to just take into consideration how big of a responsibility that is but also getting the ground rules in place again before you move forward? Are you going to have that guarantor for a couple of years and then refinance your loan so it's 100% in your name? Are you going to be making extra mortgage repayments so that happens sooner rather than later? Or are you just

planning on cruising along with minimum repayments because you actually can't afford additional repayments to get out of that guarantor period first? Because a guarantor is essentially in place of a deposit. So, if you don't have a deposit, someone can guarantor a portion of their property to become, in quotation marks, your deposit. So, once you actually reach a point of having equity in your property, which essentially means that you've got enough money paid off your mortgage to refinance it so that you would have that quote 20%, you can release a guarantor, which is kind of cool. But are you working towards that on a fast track or are you just making minimum repayments and you're not really planning on doing that or you're planning

on only paying interest off, which is going to take a really long time? I think it's just important to know what your parents' expectations of that are as well, because they might go, no, don't worry about it. Like we've got absolutely no intention of doing anything at all. So just take your time, enjoy it. Or they might say, yep, we really wanted to get you in the property market, but you know, in the next five years, we really do want to retire or we really do want to create some more wealth ourselves. So you need to buckle down and we've given you this opportunity because you don't have a deposit, but that doesn't mean you get to be lax. So I think that's really important. But again, we're going to be talking about this more closely on the property playbook

in two weeks, friends. Yay. V, was there anything else you wanted to add there? Are we ready to wrap the show? I think we nearly are ready to wrap the show, but as always, before we wrap the show, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

They're the traditional custodians of the lands, waterways and skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land which we're able to learn on. We pay our respects to Elders past and present and we share our friendship and our kindness and of course guys please remember that the advice shared on cheese on the money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances cheese on the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied

upon to make an investment or a financial decision and we promise victoria divine is an authorized representative of australia pacific funds management proprietary limited abn 34132463257 AFSL 339151 and big thanks to Tone for putting together today's podcast. How lucky are we to have her? She's in the room right now Tone, anything to say? Yeah, she's got nothing

to say. She's shaking her head She is not nodding her head, she is shaking her head. I got in trouble for that before but yeah I really like Tone. Good acquisition from the team. Glad we stole her from Radio Life Yeah, are you happy with the podcast today? Happy! She's happy, okay Yay! Well with that, see you

next week guys. Bye guys! Thank you.