Short Wave - Ellen Ochoa's Extraordinary NASA Career

Episode Date: December 19, 2021

Ellen Ochoa didn't get picked the first time she applied to become an astronaut--nor the second. But she eventually went to space four times. In this excerpt from the podcast Wisdom from the Top, host Guy Raz talks to Ochoa about how she became an astronaut and her career at NASA. Here is a link to the entire interview, in which they cover a lot of ground--from her love of calculus and physics to shaping NASA culture: https://www.npr.org/2021/12/07/1062084978/nasa-ellen-ochoaSee pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, shortwavers, this holiday season, we have a little present for you. It features an astronaut who we really admire. Ellen Ochoa, she's made history many times over. She was the first Hispanic woman in space and spent 30 years at NASA. First as a research engineer, then an astronaut, she eventually became head of the Johnson Space Center. Even with this long and distinguished resume, I think one of the most amazing things about Ellen's career is how she responded to a moment of Christensen. crisis, changing NASA's workplace culture in the aftermath of the 2003 Columbia Shuttle Disaster. Today, we bring you an excerpt of her conversation with Guy Raz, host of the podcast, Wisdom from the Top.

Have a listen and enjoy. I guess it was 1985 when you decided to apply to be an astronaut with NASA. First of all, where did that idea even come from? How are you, why are you even thinking about that? Well, so in 1981, this was sort of the end of my first year at Stanford. That was when the shuttle flew for the first time, April 1981. And that made huge news. I mean, the U.S. hadn't flown in space in a few years.

And, of course, this was just a completely different kind of spacecraft than it ever flown before. It wasn't a little capsule. You know, it was this sort of big, beautiful spacecraft that looked like an aircraft. And it had the capability of doing so many different kinds of things. and a lot of what it was going to be doing in space was science research. And a couple years later, when I was right in the middle of my PhD, Sally Wright flew in space. And that was a huge deal.

You know, people often ask, hey, did you want to be an astronaut from the time you were a little kid? And I said, well, you know, I grew up in the Apollo era, and of course everybody was talking about it, but nobody would ever ask a girl, do you want to grow up to be an astronaut or, you know, why don't you think about doing that? So, you know, it was a big deal in 78 when the first women astronauts were selected. And now finally, the first woman was flying, and of course that was followed by other women in the class. And I could also relate a little bit to Sally also because she had gone to Stanford, which is where I was at the time. She had been a physics major, which had been my majors in undergrad.

And really, those things made a huge amount of difference to me because if that hadn't been, been the case, I just don't think I could ever, ever have pictured myself doing something similar. So about that time, NASA was talking about selecting another group of astronauts. And some of the other grad students were saying, oh, I'm going to fill in an application and send it into NASA. And I remember asking, is that how it works? You know, like, you just fill out an application and send it in. I mean, I had no idea at the time how astronauts were selected or anything like that. And so that was really the first time that I actually wrote NASA and asked them to send me, you know, the information about how you apply. And a couple years later, in 85, when I actually got my degree, I sent in my application to NASA.

But of course, knowing how many people actually apply, really, I never expected to hear anything back from NASA. So, of course, I had looked for and interviewed other jobs for PhD researchers. and I had taken a job at Sandia National Labs in Livermore to join your research group there. Okay, so the first time you applied to NASA, you never heard back. And then I guess it was in 1987, you sort of reactivated your application. What happened then? Did you get picked? No, I did not get picked. However, I did get the opportunity to go to Johnson Space Center and actually spend a week there

and interview in person. And what I found out when I showed up was, you know, out of the original few thousand applications, they were only inviting a little over 100, maybe 120 people to actually come to Johnson Space Center. So I was pretty excited, actually, to have, you know, already made it that far in the process. And so anybody who gets invited to that part spends a week, you know, five days at Johnson Space Center. And one hour of that is the actual in-person interview, but there's also tours of some of the training facilities. You get a chance to talk to actual astronauts, which I had never had that opportunity before, to really find out what the job is about. And then, of course, there's extensive medical testing.

That's actually what you're doing for most of the week. So I wasn't selected that year, but I was encouraged to keep my application active for whenever the next time it would be that they would do a selection. Were you disappointed? Were you sad? Do you remember how you felt when you didn't get it? Well, of course, I was hugely disappointed, but it wasn't that it was, I couldn't say I was expecting to be selected. I mean, so many people apply, so few are chosen, that I didn't see it as a failure because the odds seemed so great to begin with. Yeah. In fact, I kind of viewed myself as I'm a long shot. I seem so different than most people who, you know, you think of as astronauts, although I would try to keep in mind people like Sally Wright and others who, you know, at least had some things in common with me.

So as disappointed as I was, I can't say that I felt like I had failed. I hadn't been selected. And I was encouraged to keep my application active for the next time. And so I did make a couple of decisions. I mean, one thing I learned while I was down there is, you know, almost everybody has a pilot's license, even though it's not a requirement. But what they really want to see, particularly from someone with my background when you're a PhD researcher and you spend a lot of time. I'm in a lab and writing papers and presenting them is how do you operate in an operational environment? Yeah.

Because that wasn't the environment, you know, that I had experience with. And if you go out and you get a private pilots license, now you're actually learning to operate an environment that's much more similar to what an astronaut would do. So I went back and, you know, took lessons out of the Livermore Airport and got my private pilots license. And I also made the decision. You know, I had been so excited about, you know, actually being at Johnson Space Center, which just seemed like, you know, the most amazing place where all these human spaceflight milestones had happened.

And I decided I really wanted to work for NASA, even if I wasn't selected as an astronaut. And there was a research facility in the Bay Area, and they actually had a group that was doing something similar to what I was doing at Sandia National Labs. And so I made the decision and ended up getting hired at NASA Ames Research Center. So 1990, you reactivate or you keep your application open and you're chosen. You're accepted into the astronaut program. The third time, third time's a charm, I guess.

What, do you remember how you felt when you found out? Oh, yeah. You never forget that moment. I mean, it's probably the most amazing moment of my life. I was actually, so I was working at Ames Research Center. I was a supervisor. I was actually off-site that day because I was in a sort of a management seminar. And I remember coming out sort of mid-morning and, you know, we just took a 10-minute break or something. And as I was coming back in, I saw this note taped to the door. And it had my name on it and it said, Don Putty called, give him a call. call back. And he was the person that headed up flight crew operations at Johnson Space Center. And he was the one that would be calling about the results of the astronaut selection. And I just about had a heart attack. I was like, I can't believe somebody didn't come inside and get me when this person called. Yeah, you can't, I just can't even describe that moment because, I mean, it's a moment that I knew my life would change. forever. We'll have a link to Ellen and Guy's full interview in our episode notes. Wisdom from the top is from Built It Productions and Luminary Media. I'm Emily Kwong and you're listening

to Shortwave, the Daily Science podcast from NPR.