Short Wave - Fresh Banana Leaves — An Indigenous Approach To Science

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

Dr. Jessica Hernandez's new book examines the role of displacement — Indigenous peoples like her father, who was displaced by the civil war in El Salvador, and plants like the banana tree, brought from Asia to Central America — in science. Jessica, an environmental scientist, talks with Emily about how important it is to make sure that Indigenous people and their knowledge are centered as humans work to save or restore land in the era of climate change.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Never forget that anywhere you go that is not your home, it's someone's home. And you must pay them respect and build relationships with the land and the people to be welcome into their home. Otherwise, you're walking into their home as a welcome guest. You're listening to Shortwave from NPR. Jessica Hernandez is a Zapotec and Maya Chorti environmental scientist. And when you ask her about her personal story, who she's, is and how she came to write her new book, she begins with her father, Victor, and the civil war that shaped him. It started in 1979 in El Salvador and devastated his community.

One of the things that I wanted to do was, like, write a book that integrated in my father's story, especially the perspectives of an indigenous child who, you know, at 11, like while he saw himself as an adult, he was still a child that had to go through this gruesome reality, right? Her father's experience as a child soldier is one of the many stories that powers Jessica's new book, called Fresh Banana Leaves, Healing Indigenous Landscapes Through Indigenous Science. It takes a critical look at Western conservation and talks about incorporating indigenous knowledge into her field of study, environmental science. Knowledge passed down through the generations through folks like her father. One of the things that he always told me was that nature protects us as not exactly.

we protect nature. It was a lesson that he put into action even in war. During that time when he was in war, there was this banana tree where he will climb up and get bananas for the rest of his comrades. Now, banana trees are originally from Asia, introduced by the Spanish in the 1500s. But for Jessica's father, this tree wasn't invasive.

It was a place of refuge. When a bomb dropped on top of the banana tree, instead of the bomb igniting, the leaves kind of wrapped it in a way that prevented it from igniting. As a result of that, right, it kind of shows how the banana leaves gave us a fresh start, gave him a fresh start because he was able to seek refuge, escape his country of his Salvador, and eventually make it to the United States. There's beauty and knowledge in this parallel.

Just as her father was displaced by war, so too are banana trees displaced. And if you think this way, like Jessica does, about the trees, not as invasive species, but as displaced relatives. You realize that banana trees are just as migratory as we are. Thing is, not a lot of environmental scientists think like Jessica. Even within conservation and restoration, there are these Western ideologies that are embedded that kind of remove people from the land, especially when it comes to building those relationships with the plants that are basically their relatives.

For her, reestablishing our connection to the land. means elevating indigenous science. It means seeing banana trees as displaced relatives. For indigenous peoples, we still kind of embrace other relatives. And if they adapt, you know, if they are integrated with our environments, they can thrive together with our native plants. And then as a result, right, they become a part of our identity. Today's episode is that, a meditation on indigenous knowledge and science.

We talked to Jessica Hernandez about how, Centering indigenous peoples can heal more than just the planet. I'm Emily Kwong. You're listening to Shortwave, the Daily Science podcast from NPR. So a bit about Jessica Hernandez. She is based in the Pacific Northwest. It's currently a postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Washington. And she's the founder of Pinyasole, an organization that supports black and indigenous-led conservation and environmental projects. And if she had to name one problem with Western science and conservation, it's the tendency to distance people from land, something separate that we are either helping or hurting.

We're always told to remove humans from that equation. And I think that as a result of that, right, when we're trying to protect, let's say, you know, an area of land, we're removing all the humans who can, you know, probably successfully store those landscapes because we're kind of putting the landscape into a, like a box where, you know, humans don't necessarily have any role. And Jessica traces that idea to colonization, which is still influencing how we interact with our environment. You know, it's usually white cisgender men who have the power and privilege to decide

how we're going to, you know, manage our landscapes, how we're going to govern our natural resources or how are we going to, you know, in a way, relate to them. She calls this eco-colonialism and sees it in her daily life, living on Duwamish land in Seattle, Washington. The Duwamish tribe hasn't received federal recognition. So as a result of that, they don't have right or access to their food sources, right? Their cultural keystone species like salmon. But as a result of that, right, we're seeing how these co-cellish communities and identities are being jeopardized, because for them and like for many indigenous communities is not just a food source,

it's also their relative, right? Because a lot of their creation stories, you know, not all of them, but some of them tie it to the salmon. The way to counteract that, Jessica argues, is for governments to give indigenous people political power, involvement in any environmental action that municipalities and agencies undertake, from land use to subsistence to climate change. Oftentimes when we talk about indigenous communities,

we're not offered a seat at the table, right? And when we are offered a seat at the table, we are seen, but we're not hurt. So I think that ego colonialism kind of plays into that, right? Where, you know, sometimes you're trying to reach your diversity quota, so you're going to include probably one indigenous person, but never hear what they have to say. And I think that with eco-colonialism, it shows how we still, in a way, care more about capitalistic beliefs,

especially when it comes to our environment and how those capitalistic beliefs are actually destroying our environments and making it hard for us to focus on mitigation, especially when it comes to climate change, and forcing many communities to adapt to climate change. And it seems like colonialism is almost a feedback loop, which is how a lot of these structures happen. Like, the more pervasive it is,

the more it just persists and kind of builds upon itself and becomes the way it's always done. So how do you even begin to undo something that's so deeply entrenched? Yeah, I think, you know, something that you bring up is kind of something that, you know, many indigenous communities have talked about. And that's why they're pushing forward the land back movements where they don't necessarily, you know, get to own the land, but they get to store and caretake for that land. And I think that, you know, when we talk about eco-colonialism, we also have to question who actually gets to restore the land or, you know, lead these conservation movements, and it's not necessarily indigenous peoples, it's usually scientists, right, who may have developed a relationship with the land, but don't necessarily

have a longstanding relationship to the land, like the indigenous peoples, whose lands they're trying to, you know, preserve, protect, or conserve. And I think that through that, right, the land back movement tries to address that. And, you know, at the core of the colonization, it's the land back movement where we can, you know, steward and care take for our lands without having to ask for permits or, you know, file permits or ask for permission, where it's something that, you know, indigenous peoples can do moving forward. Mm-hmm. It's really, it's really interesting to hear you talk about the landback movement because

so often scientists don't talk about political campaigns or just social mobilization around issues. And what do you wish your fellow environmental scientists? scientists knew about the land back idea. I think that with the land back movement, a lot of scientists don't really understand what it means because that will mean that they have to step back and let indigenous peoples do the story and the caretaking for. And I think that many conservation scientists or restoration or environmental scientists because they have built, you know, like a research agenda where

they can see indigenous peoples as areas of expertise or research subjects. have to also kind of decolonize the way that they view indigenous peoples for them to understand the power that indigenous peoples carry, especially when, you know, stewarding and caretaking over lands. And I think that, you know, many professors, like when you look at their areas of expertise, they mention indigenous communities, right? And I think that it's kind of interesting because a lot of other communities are not treated as areas of expertise. but when it comes to environmental sciences or, you know, any natural sciences, for some reason, indigenous communities, you know, we are seen as areas of expertise, and that's something that, you know, it's uncomfortable, right? Because then we are seen as the research subjects as opposed to the research.

A research topic. Yeah. And not necessarily sovereign, right, sovereign people as well. Taking that sovereignty into account is crucial to the way Jessica incorporates indigenous knowledge into her research. Instead of me as a scientist being like, I'm going to formulate this question and then I'm going to, you know, create this research project, I consulted the urban native communities, the Duamish communities from Seattle and asked them what kind of, you know, environmental project they will benefit from. Because oftentimes, you know, as environmental scientists, we're like, oh, yeah, we know what's best for our environments and we can consult the tribes or indigenous communities later. She ended up developing an environmental project to revitalize 20 acres of land in Discovery Park in Seattle. And she says Seattle Parks and Recreation was pretty wowed by the number of volunteers who stepped up to help.

They were like, oh, you know, it's kind of hard to get volunteers to help us with the field work. But they were surprised, right, because this project wasn't necessarily something that I had developed. It was something that the community helped me develop. And I think that, you know, they were surprised to see how many volunteers will come out to support, right? Because they felt like this was their project, not necessarily something that they were being asked to do. And I think that that shows how restoration, you know, can be seen more as healing where, you know, you had a lot of elders, you know, interacting with the youth. And also a lot of elders sharing stories with the youth. And that kind of is like that intergenerational healing that sometimes we need to understand.

goal, right? And I think that that allow them to heal. And it's a project that's still ongoing because the community is really invested in it. Go figure when you when you lead upon the authority and in collaboration with the local tribes that this is the outcome. But I think that, you know, it kind of ties to my grandmother's teaching how you have to build relationships with not just the land, but also the people. And I think that, you know, I wish more of our, you know, this environmental the scientists got that message or that teaching at a young age. Yeah, you write, quote, when we heal ourselves, we heal landscapes.

And it is time to create space for indigenous peoples to heal as we move forward in life. How is this book that? I think that book kind of addresses that because, you know, it centers stories that are often ignored. It centers, you know, the voices of people. our indigenous communities who are never listened to, and that's, you know, mostly indigenous woman. It also brings a new perspective where it's not, you know, just romanticizing indigenous communities, but hopefully it drives the readers to make those reflections and question their intentions,

especially as we were discussing environmental scientists who are non-indigenous trying to do research on indigenous communities and how that, you know, reciprocal relationship might be shaped as opposed So, you know, very top down than, you know, most research kind of follows. And I think that, you know, hopefully it starts planting little seeds that may not be necessarily taken by every person, but at least maybe it starts shifting their ways of thinking. But we know that that probably will take generations before we can actually reach that justice component in our lives and communities. Thank you so much.

It's been really, really wonderful to have you. Yeah. Thank you for interviewing me. It was amazing to talk to you and have this discussion. This story was produced by Rebecca Ramirez and edited by Giselle Grayson, who is our senior supervising editor. Andrew Kisick is the head of the science desk. Edith Chapin and Terence Samuel are the executive editors and vice presidents of news. And Nancy Barnes is the senior vice president of news.

I'm Emily Kwong. Happy Earth Day. And thank you so much for listening to Shortwave, the Daily Science podcast from NPR. Thank you.